Girls Gotta Eat - How to Break Cycles and Have Empowered Relationships with Dr. Nicole LePera

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

This episode is a game changer when it comes to understanding yourself in relationships thanks to long-awaited guest Dr. Nicole LePera, holistic psychologist and bestselling author. Nicole covers so much ground, including why we seek out relationships that feel familiar but aren't healthy for us (and how to stop), why fear of rejection can be debilitating, and the difference between relationships that are empowered and disempowered. We dissect trauma bonding (both the power and danger of it), and also discuss how couples misinterpret each other's behaviors (touching on love languages, but going even deeper) and how you can better understand each other instead of expecting them to change. Nicole also tells us about her throuple and the dynamics of it. Before she joins us, we catch up on Ashley's recent altercation on a plane, Rayna's observations about sisters, and a star-studded event we attended. Enjoy! Follow Nicole on Instagram @the.holistic.psychologist and get her new book How to Be the Love You Seek. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit our website for tour dates, merchandise, and more. Shop Vibes Only. Thank you to our partners this week: Helix: Get 20% off all mattress orders + two free pillows at helixsleep.com/gge with code HELIXPARTNER. Hinge: Download Hinge and find someone worth deleting the app for hin.ge/gge. Quince: Go to quince.com/gge to get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order. Chomps: Get 20% off your first order and free shipping at chomps.com/gge. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We need to become aware of what we're seeking because many of us are seeking the familiar. And what is familiar for many of us isn't actually meeting our needs. What's healthy? Fully. Of girls got to eat. Welcome back. December 11th. Okay.

Last night would have been, would have been if it lived. Well, last night was our holiday show. Last night we were. I don't know. If the world hasn't ended, then last night would have been. Yeah, exactly. If we're still here, if you're listening, if you're reading this, you already know. The last night did happen.

The December 10th did pass. Yes. A tour's over, is what I'm saying. Oh, my God. Yes. Stay with me. Well, I thought you were just going to say thanks for coming last night. Yeah.

Uh-oh. We got a mind and gap. Somebody mentioned on via watching YouTube where you should watch all the episodes in full that the pillow cases, there's a gap. Yeah, the cushions, which I hate too. I do too. We just have to push it together. But then I guess we get moving and they move with us.

Do you want to come towards me? We'll fix it. No, I think it's just. We'll get a gap over here. Okay. So if you came to Toronto and New York, thank you so much. We're recording before we head out for these shows and before we wrap the Snack City Tour 2023, which was just the most incredible, most fun journey of my life.

Aw. Thanks. Was it not? It was. Watch something terrible happen in New York. No. It'll still have been. We did almost 40 shows this year.

And it's just, it's been. exhausting and wonderful. It's just been an incredible year of shows. I can't believe we get to do this so many years in a row. I can't believe we get to do this for a living. I know. Yeah. So thank you guys for coming out.

And again, if anything, super exciting to happen. I know I can tell you now, like we, in Toronto, we had the Spice Queens open, Spice Girls, Drag Queens, which we had them before. They're absolutely incredible.

Look them up. Spice Queens Live. And the New York Giants drumline, again in New York, opened the performance, and, you know, Bobby Westside with his shirt off. And Spice.

Sparkleyes and Hot Neighbor and Lindsay and Buck and... No, but now I'm like, we're not even doing it. I'm excited. Can't wait to actually do it. Yes. So we'll talk about it next week and also for the New Year's episode. We'll obviously thank you again, but thank you for an amazing year of shows. We love you guys.

We love you guys again. Thank you guys again. Just be prepared for you. Yeah, thank you guys again. Okay. A few other housekeeping and a new launch. Just launches on launches on launches. Launches on launches.

Loshes on chops. Oh my God. It's late in the day. You guys chomp and the sun goes down. You guys chomp on this launch. Hit it. Hit it.

I actually hit. What was that? We were at a show. A talent show. So you come to the shows, we did talent shows. We started about midway through the tour pretty early on. I think we started in Milwaukee or Minneapolis. The three of us came up with the idea at the airport together.

All together. It was just like this amazing like group idea. And we started doing talent shows. But what did she do? she wanted to rap. She was going to name all the presidents. And then she was going to do a freestyle rap. And she just goes, hit it, Tessa.

Tessa gave her a beat. Drop a beat, Tessa. Tessa's been quick with the music because it's very like, it's my thing. And I just have to want someone to like be inside my brain. And, you know, I'm like, Tessa play some walk-up music. I feel like she first started. She was like, what does she mean? No, we have songs, a list of songs.

Oh, we do. Tessa's just really quick with it. Yeah, she's been really good with it. So some things to just get out of the way. So GGE merch, we released a whole new line. The deadline to order for the holidays was yesterday for like U.S. ground shipping. You can order it today and hopefully it'll come by Christmas, but we really can't guarantee it.

So that deadline passed yesterday. And then Vibes Only, the deadline for domestic ground shipping is December 15th. So that is at Vivesonly.com. All of our stuff for the holidays, all the little gifts. And thank you guys for supporting all that. And our website will have the rest of the deadline. So you can check. We will have three day, two day, and next day.

So you can check our vibes only website for that. And I want to correct something from last week. It was a mistake. Just was a negligence. Oversight. Negligence. It was a negligent. It was a negligent oversight.

We went off talking about our handcuffs and did not mention the fucking name of them, which was a group effort. I did eventually come up with it. So I am proud that we name these the kinklinks. And we didn't even say the fucking name last week. I know. So these are the kinklinks. They are selling.

We love to see it. Really selling. Yes, we launched them last week. There are super soft silicone handcuffs. You know, they're soft and flexible, but they still are going to give you that feeling of being bound while not having to unlock anything or really being locked up with a locking key. And they're just really fun.

And they're kind of an intro into kink. So hence the kink links. And that's just our really fun. name for them and they're a really great price point and they are selling. So get those kinklinks at Vivesonly.com and we released a Lucy two last week as well. And that's been really fun to see people buy my daughter of a vibrator. If you want to just like go all in, we've a lot of new purple toys. So the new Lucy is purple and it's a bullet vibrator with three sleeves. So essentially four different vibrators, very versatile. And it's purple and the kinklings are also purple. So you could have

just like all purple night for yourself. And so is the little Debbie. Yeah. My favorite toy. Let's not even get you going. We'll be here all night. It really just vacuums you right up. My favorite toy. And then do you want to introduce our new product? Yeah, so our newest project launching today. We have wanted to do this for so long and we are so excited to announce this.

So we are announcing a massage oil candle. And it is called Flickr. And if you're thinking like, I'm scared to pour hot wax myself, there is no wax in it. So basically the oil heats up and melts at a lower temperature. So it's not going to burn your skin. It just feels nice and warm. There's shade butter in it. it. The candle vessel vessel itself is really high end and beautiful. So it's a great gift for somebody

else or for yourself and just create a really fun date night. But you light it. The scent is vanilla Sontal. It's both feminine and masculine. Right. It's perfect. It's perfect. So it's not too fruity or too masculine. We try to a bunch of different sense. This is when we landed on. We absolutely love it. So if you like that Sontal smell fantastic. And it's just a nice for like a sexy, unique different date night. You just light it. We call it the flicker candle. Heat it up, get it just nice and melted. And you it on somebody's body, you give them massage. Yeah, and it's got a little pour spout on the actual candle vessel. Yes. So it makes it super easy. We love that. That was like really important to us. So it's this beautiful ceramic candle. It is white and then it has our logo in gold and it has the

poor spout. So it looks really beautiful sitting on your nightstand or even in your home wherever. And again, like Raina said, it's going to be like skin conditioning, coconut oil, vitamin E and shea butter. So not that wax. And it comes with instructions of like trimming the wicks. nothing crazy, super easy. The way you treat a normal candle. But if you're like, I need to write this down, it's super easy. It comes a little instruction card. And again, this is like an incredible gift. We're so proud of it. It's been a long time coming. This is like something different, you know, and it's not a vibrator. It's not a toy. It's not one of our formulas, like the blow gel and the loo. It's like a whole different animal. We get like new lawyers involved and do all the things.

I know people to have used candles in the bedroom and wax is messy and it really hurts. Yes. So both of those things. Right. No control. over what's going to happen with that wild. It gets every, you don't want it to get on your stuff. So a massage oil candle, I think you've more control over, you massage it into the skin. I'm so fucking excited. Like, this is the number one date night thing. Absolutely.

It's not intimidating in any way. You know, like I've always said that massages are a great way to start foreplay. Yes. Like, early on, whenever in a relationship, like, this is a great way. And even if you just want to spice up your long-term relationship, this is just wonderful in all stages of anything you got goal. on. I think late into a relationship is great. I always say one of the number one questions we get asked is how do I inject some more intimacy into my relationship and reignite the flame

like this flame. Okay. Let it flicker. Because I think some people are like, I want to like reignite my flame with my partner, but I don't know about like whips and chains and bondage stuff. And it's like this is just like a nice date night. Chains excite me. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. It's always a Rihanna song. I know. Your brother said he likes a ballad. I'm a strong female performer. I think about him saying it to me every day. S&M is not that.

No, no, I was talking about. He's talking about Stag. But I think about Matt Houseltyne's saying that all the time to me. So that is available at vibes only.com. Our whole product line is available. Again, the deadline to order all this stuff, December 15th for ground shipping for the holidays. And we just, we're so excited to see everybody give this to their partners,

to their selves, to their friends. And thank you for the support. We hope you love it. And let us know how much you love it. Please tag us. Please DM us and tag us. Yeah, DM tags. But like, if you're opening this on Christmas,

morning or whatever. Just please tag us. It really makes our day. Yeah. Be like that girl that wrote us that email on Christmas Day. But do the opposite. She changed our lives, you guys. Christmas morning, 9 a.m. I stop talking about your stupid live shows. No one cares about your stupid live shows. Never forget it. We've landed a whole tour. If you guys are new here literally on Christmas morning and 9 a.m. I was sitting on the couch at Ashley's parents' house and we got this email and this girl said, please stop talking about your stupid live shows. No one cares. No, Raina. I literally. I literally. don't care that we branded that.

Well, she said I literally don't care about your stupid live shows. Yes, I literally don't care about your stupid live shows. And we took that sentence and made merch and made a tour. Thank you to her. Yeah, thank you. We've made a lot of money from you. So thank you so much. We appreciate you.

We're being the tour sponsor. Okay. So let's see. It's like holiday season. I will be back in the East Coast through the New Year. Really haven't been me for a long time. Well, I want to be with my family. I'm your family.

You're coming there. It's only like one more week. But I was like, I'm going to New York. I don't want to fly back to L.A. and then fly back. And I don't remember if we ever talked about as old not being with us and why. But if you've missed him, if you've been watching it on YouTube, he has not been here. He went back to Delaware with me in the fall and we just had so much travel.

And I just wanted to have him with my parents on their farm instead of having sitters with him. And what we did, like October was a crazy month and all that kind of stuff, knowing that I would be there a bunch. I saw him over Thanksgiving and I was with him that weekend in October and then I'll see him, you know, these three weeks in December. So it's just been the best thing for him. That's the happiest place. He lives his best life. He's on this huge farm. He has his friend. He has his friend. It's just to have another dog. He has a buddy. He's like a pack. You know, the neighbor's dog comes over. So he's just living his best life, but I like miss him so much. It like hurts. I miss him. Like, I really like, it's weighing on me. I just miss him so much. I've cried about his old twice in the last 24 hours.

I cried. He really is like. I miss him like so, so much. So I'm going back for the new year and that's where he has been. But it's, you know, travel season. And I wanted to share a story that I didn't share last week. We had a super long episode. So I just saved it till this week. But I got in a fight on an airplane. Full blown screaming.

You guys, I have traveled with Ashley. I mean, for six years, I'm almost never at an airport without you. And there's like the one time. Well, wherever the one time. What? I was reminded of the time we were in line for security. And I go, what are you going to do? Fight me?

Ashley, I forgot about that. I almost forgot. That is so funny. But that girl was all up on me and like, remember we just didn't move up right at the moment the people in front of us did and she was like on our dicks about it and she was like getting in our face. I was like, what are you going to do? Fight me.

I was so turned on. I was like, am I going to fuck Ashley? That's how I felt when you shut down that girl doing the crowd work. That's what we like about each other when we're strong, independent women. So we've been mean to other women. We've been mean. She started it. Don't start no shit won't be no shit

Totally I will step to me I never start it but I will finish it And this was not a woman That this fight was with So like if you're listening No you're not about to hear something That I berated a flight attendant

I would never in my life It was quite the opposite So I was on my flight going to I was heading to Boston I went there the weekend before Thanksgiving And I was flying And I was in the Delta 1 cabin I was just laid back relaxing

What is laid back Max and relaxing all cool And all Relax and relaxing. Oh, cool. So some background on my headspace at the moment. I had, I was not in a good place. So I got in four hours asleep. My neighbor doing construction, I was up an hour earlier. Then he's not supposed to start the construction until eight. So I'd already woken up. I went to bed super late, was working, trying to catch up. So I was on four hours asleep. And then I forgot my AirPods. So I was trying to fall asleep on the plane just to get like one to two more hours before I had to start to work on

the plane. Then the baby started crying at like a volume 12. And I did, um, my AirPods to put in and I was uncomfortable wearing their big headphones. And so I was like starting to panic. I was like, I'm going to be so tired. Like I know the amount of sleep I have to get. And I can do four at home and get two more in the air. Like I just have to get at least six. So I started to panic. Then just email start coming and I'm like, I have to work. So I was like on four hours of sleep, was frustrated, babies crying and like was just zoned in. And I see this guy. He walks up from, I guess he was like in comfort. He was like right behind Delta one. He walks up. This dude's 6-6.

I clocked him at 6-6 when we were baggage claim. I think everyone's 6-6 and she knows. So he comes up and the flight attendant is this woman. She's maybe 5'4. She's like a small woman and like young, like in her 20s. And I hear him go, I'm just trying to stretch my legs. So he's trying to just come up into that cabin where you're not supposed to be whatever. I'm not trying to sound elitist, but like they tell you you can't come up here.

It's just what it is. It's the rules of the plane. You got to follow the rules. That's not where you're sitting. So he's like, I'm just trying to stretch my legs, and he has like an attitude about him. And he is physically trying to overpower her. So he is so much bigger than her. And he's standing really close to her.

And he's like getting in her face. It was really off-putting. So I immediately, I'm tuned in. Like, I'm like, what's about to happen? I just don't like this vibe. And it's dark. Most people are sleeping or they're watching a movie. They get their headphones on.

No one's really paying attention. I feel like it was the only person fucking paying attention. And so he's like, I'm just trying to stretch my leg. She's like, sir, I told you can't be up here. You have to go back to your seat. And he's like, I'm just trying to do-da-da-da. And he's like, starts going in on her. And I was like, I don't like it.

And so I start to like watch and start to like crane my neck around. You also forgot to mention there is a person next to you. Oh, yeah, I was at the window. You were at the window. And there's a person in between you and the flight attendant. Yeah, and she was asleep. We're going to talk about the slow. I'm going to get back to her.

She was laid back. She was asleep for this whole time. She stayed asleep. So he turns, he kind of retreats. And then she turns her back to go up to the front, to go back to her station. And he pushes through again. He's like trying to, like, bypass her. and she goes, sir, and he goes,

I'm just going to use the bathroom. And she was like, I told you you can't be up here. He was like, I can't use the bathroom. And I snapped. And I go, hey, what the fuck are you doing? And he was like, what the fuck? I came out of nowhere. I was like, what are you doing?

Go back to your seat. Like Ashley's the air marshal. And then he looks at me, he goes, who the fuck are you? I said, who the fuck are you? I said, go back to your. to your seat. And I'm like waving. I'm like physically, the lady, lady next to me, I'm like over her. I'm like, Ashley, what is she doing this whole time? She was asleep? Never woke up. And I go,

go back to your seat. She told you to go back to your seat. What are you doing? You're harassing the flight attendant? I was like, what do you think you're doing? And I could feel him like start to get embarrassed, but even more like, I can't believe this girl is like doing this. And she looks at me and she mouse, thank you. Because here's what. I was not trying to be a hero. I'm not trying to escalated a situation. You know, like, I just, like, got so mad. And, like, I feel like she needed help or something. And I was like, I feel like if I can just get loud enough and embarrass him enough, he'll go back to his seat. And sure enough, I got loud enough, I embarrassed him enough, and he went back to his seat. Rain, I don't remember I said, I blacked out. I, you know,

I was like a loose cannon. I was in, like, four hours of sleep. I've never been more upset to not be on playing with you. Like, we fly, like, three times a year without the other person. I cannot believe this is the time you chose. I know, but we never sit together. So you would have been hearing this from your seat. I would have been thrilled to watch it go down. I don't have to be involved. She's like filming. So he finally, he looked so mad and I was not going to let up. You know what I mean?

Like I was like, I'll get this whole cabin on your ass if you don't go back to your seat. Like I was like, I'm so mad right now. I was like hot in my chest. You know, my car was racing. And so he finally turns around. And here's the thing. It's one thing, first of all, if you're insane, if you're like yelling at a flight attendant or berating them or not following the rules on a plane, even if you think the rules are stupid,

I'm sorry, you just have to follow them, whatever. But it wasn't like he was sitting in his seat yelling at her. was physically trying to overpower her. He was like chest to check. He was like body to body with her. It made me so mad that you have the audacity to do that as this huge man and do this to this woman who's like working trying to do her job. So that's what made me so mad. So he finally goes back to his seat and I'm sitting there. I'm like, I'm fucking heart racing. I was so hot. I like texted you. I texted you first. I was like, oh my fucking God. And then I like texted and sparkle eyes. He was like, what are you doing? He was like, I'm like turned on, but be careful, you know?

And she comes over to me and she goes, thank you so much for that. And I was like, I'm really sorry. I was not trying to make that worse for you. And she was like, no, no, no, I appreciate it. Like, he's been a problem since we boarded. And like, no one really does that. Like, no one stands up like that. And I was like, no, no, I just, I hope you don't think I was trying to make it worse.

And where do we do this back and forth? Like, no, I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry. And she was just like, thank you again. And she went back and then five minutes later, she came back over and she gave me miles. And she was like, are you Ashley? And she was like, I just can't thank you enough. That was like really nice.

and I'm going to put some miles in your account. So then I was like, I am a little nervous to get out this plane. Like I texted my brother about it. He was like, Ashley, stop acting like, I'm there with you to defend you. He was like, what happens when you get out of the plane? I was like, oh, no. I was like, if that guy can do that to this woman on the plane, what's he going to do, is he going to corner me in the airport?

And my brother had a funny take. He was like, that guy hasn't been knocked out in a while. And I was like, well, he's going to the right fucking city if he's headed to Boston. Like, I was clearly not from Boston. I don't know what his deal was. But we got to baggage claim. and I was a little nervous, but like nothing happened. Like, it's so interesting to me because fighting at the airport,

I'm like, that is the safest place to start a fight because, like, there's air marshals, there's so much security. People with guns, there's dogs. Like, it's the safest place. But it's also somebody who does start a fight at an airport, they're ready to die. Or an airplane.

And like, there are most of the times air marshals on the cross-country flights. Like, they don't always do the small flights, but, like, more often than not, they are on those flights. Like, I couldn't believe the audacity. Like, I don't think he was super, drunk, like, and she said he was acting like that since they boarded. I'm like, what is wrong with this guy? I can't believe the girl next.

You never woke up. I can't think about her every day. I can't believe it. You're just yelling across her. You're getting miles. She's just out cold. I can't believe it. That's so funny if she would have woke up.

I'm like, sis, guess what you meant? You're like, I got to give you some tea. And I want to also stress, this was a normal dude. This wasn't some, like, mentally challenged person. You know what I'm saying? Like, this was a normal asshole fucking guy who would have been like a problem. boarding. I saw my baggage claim. He was just like acting like a douchebag, you know, but so that's my story. I am sad. You weren't there. And like, I just would have loved if you would have like whipped

around from like two seats up and started like filming this whole thing. I would love to film this. It would have been my dream. I'm so sad. Here's the thing. I don't want to be a person that doesn't say something. Like this whole like if you see something, say something, but you also don't want to escalate a situation and make it worse for someone else. You know what I mean? Like I'm also a woman. Like I think it's crazy when like men, especially like big men, like don't help when they can. I know. Like, I've read horror stories of stuff that happen in public places. And I'm like, why did no one, like, step up?

And I know someone could have a weapon and you could get hurt too. So I just want to be cautious. But I'm like, I think you can make a scene where someone is like, I, um, like, someone thinks they're privately getting away with something. The likelihood that someone's going to happen to you on a plane is probably a little off. Oh, not a plane. But like in the subway, you know, you never know.

I mean, I'm two feet tall. I would never get involved. Like, I'm just, I'm physically afraid to like get involved. What the fuck would I do? Somebody came after me. I don't just scream you just got to scream Like that's what I'm saying like just go crazy Like make like make a scene or something

I don't know I don't know but I'm glad sparkly I didn't have to find anybody else out of yours Well I was like what if he follows me out to his car I was a little nervous because I just was like if that guy Even comes up to me and tries to like back me into a corner Like I don't know like in the airport you know what I would just scream I planned you just like never know what somebody's gonna do It's why like I get scared in cars too like flipping off people and honking a lot

No you can't do road rage especially in L.A. I know. I was just me to shoot you. I had an incident a couple weeks ago. I couldn't help myself. Were you yelling at somebody? No, I just acting like a real asshole on the road.

And then I was like, my heart was racing. I was like, not in this city. You can do it in New York. Yeah. Okay, so that's my story. That's so funny. Thank you for telling your story. I was just, I wanted to do this thing because it made me really laugh.

And I was wondering if you, like, relate to it. So I was in Pittsburgh with my sister-in-law, and she has a sister. I obviously don't have a sister. And I've had this, like, sort of whitehead on my face for a while. I'm not sure what it is. And I'm home for Thanksgiving. I'm in the middle of a sentence. I'm just talking to my brother.

And she goes, you go, you go zit on your nose. And I was like, what? And she's like, I think it's like a calcium deposit. And I was in the middle of a sentence about saying, I'm getting negged about my skin care. And then it reminded me that like a couple weeks before that I came over to their house when we're in London. And she took one look at me. And she's like, huh. So you just, you don't want to like straight in the back of your hair.

And you think it's like a sister thing? And I was like. So it's so funny. Fuck you. Like she'll always say something about like my hair, my makeup, my clothing. She's always saying something like clothing. It's always just like a comment. I love her.

She's great, but it's always like a comment. And then I started talking about it when she said the thing about my white head. And I was like, it's like a sister thing. And she's like, yeah, that's what having sisters like. Because I was like, why are you such an asshole to me? The way she was like, so you just don't care about straightening the back of your hair. It's not a thing for you. To like straighten it.

You just, and so I was like, that reminded me when you started negging me about the back of my hair. And she was like, yeah, you're a way. welcome. Now you'll remember to straighten the back of your hair. Oh my God. And it just made me laugh because you and I don't have brothers. So like I'm not used to me like talking to me like that. I mean, I guess all sisters are different. But I think they do do that. We're talking about it. Like we don't know any. Like it's so foreign to us. She's my only sister. It's foreign to me. But like they're the only ones that can like kind of take a shot at you like that in the middle of a sentence when you're talking about something else. Well, you're not caught up in the Kardashians.

The way you just said that to me. Listen, my favorite show. I'm the biggest skims stand. We both are. But you used to make fun of me for how much I watched it? And you were like, I'm out on it right now. I wasn't making fun. It just, when it was on E, it wasn't really for me. And I love the Hulu version. And I'm just so into the Kardashians now. But the scene where Courtney is basically, of course, this could have been editing, but there's a scene on the latest episode now, oh, no, it was a finale where Courtney's trying to talk about like her generational trauma. And she's like getting pretty deep with it. And Chris goes, is your eyebrow crooked? And I think, like, Chris, it honestly, like, Chris might be like, can we not talk about this on the show?

Like, I don't know if that's how Chris would be off camera or if she was really trying to deflect and not bring up the generational trauma of the family. I don't know why it's like so surprising to me. She's like, I have a dad, a stepdad, a brother. I have three stepbrothers. I have two older girl cousins. One passed away, unfortunately. And one was, like, quite a bit older than me. So, like, Adriana is like, she's the only one.

Yeah. So it just, it makes me laugh. Like my brother would never dare stop me in the middle of a sentence and be like, oh, you're wearing your hair extensions today. Well, I feel like friends. I have friends that feel like family. Like, I feel like you and I, well, I guess I didn't because I didn't tell you about your hair extensions that day. Exactly.

But my sister-in-law would never. Right. Well, she's the nicest person. She's the sweetest person alive. Her brain doesn't even go there. She would even notice. Absolutely not. She would be like, you're trying something with your hair looks like.

You don't notice that like I'm covered in blood. She'd like, oh, no, I just thought you were. She'd be like, it's like a shade for you. You look so beautiful. She's just, Stephanie's brain would like never go there. I know, she's a sweetie. But I really quick just want to talk about, Rain and I had the best weekend ever.

We had so many plans. We saw all of our friend groups. It was really just so special. I did a lot of plans. You really did. Well, I've been feeling a little bit like the last couple weeks, the press is not the wrong right word because that's like an over exaggeration. But like I've just been feeling like I've been done anything that much.

Like Thanksgiving, people aren't here. I just like, I went home. I didn't really have a lot of friends in town then either. So I've just been feeling a little like aimless. So I needed to get out of the house and see people and have plans. Yeah, so we, like, did a night with, like, Ali Colbert and our friend Brittany and went to dinner. And then we went to this insane event that was, like, star studded. Well, I'll name the people.

I feel like I missed some of the celebrities that you saw that I maybe didn't notice or recognize. But, like, okay, we get an email from our agent that came from a publicist inviting us to this event. And I was like, this never happens that, like, a PR company reads a lot to our agent involved in this. Right. And it was called Chain Fest. And so it's all these chain restaurants at an event. And I was like, I don't know, maybe. And you were like, this sounds kind of fun.

We should try it. I was going to ignore it. Yeah. And it was this, B.J. Novak and Tim Hollingsworth, who's the chef, they started this like, I think there's pop-ups of chain restaurants. Like the brand is called chain, but then they did their first ever chain fest. So it was like all these random brands, like Pizza Hut and Sonic and Pepsi was there. And they did like different takes on their menu.

And it was fun. I just thought it was going to be like every food festival. You and I go to New York Wine and Food. We go to South Beach Wine and Food. I just thought it was going to be one of those. I was literally standing in my bathroom before I left to drive an hour in 15 minutes to Hollywood. And I was standing there being like, I don't want to fucking do this. We get there and I was like, this looks cool.

This is nice. And I thought it was going to be inside. It was outside. So I did buy the merch. I bought a pizza hat jacket. I look like a delivery woman. And who did we see first? Jeff Ross.

We started seeing some comedians. Alyssa can spot people. She can spot anybody. Like her radar is like nothing I've ever seen. Like influencer, porn star, celebrity. like just random TikToker. Like she really can spot people. So she starts like, oh my God, this is this person, this is this person.

And then Rain and I are line for the bar. And I just see like Chrissy Teigen and John Legend. I was like, what? I was like, oh, it's like that. Just casual. No security. Just hanging out, eating fast food. Yeah, you guys, this is just like an outdoor event in like not a parking lot,

but essentially a parking lot. Everybody's just in sweatpants and beanies. And then I'm like panning the event to get an Instagram story. And Raina comes rushing up. It's like the cutest story. come rushed up, you're like, John Mayor is here, and so is Andy Cohen. I'm fully freaking out. I was like, John Mayor is here? What do you mean? And again, everybody is just in sweatshers.

Just hanging out in this parking lot. It was like a studio or something. But, I mean, you said this. You said I didn't really know that B.J. Novick had this kind of pool. And I was like, I guess, I mean, he created the office and Parks and Rec. I do think the office is the greatest show ever written. So I guess he has a lot of pool. But like, this is the most A-list thing, Mindy Kaling was there and Angela from the office. Rachel Bilsen, Brooklyn Beckham. Yes. Lucy Hale was there.

A lot of TikTok people. Howie Mandel. I forgot how I meant to go. Like, I looked up in Rachel Billson was just in line for a hot dog. Blake Griffin. Yeah. Mike for Biglia, if that means anything to you. Yeah.

It was nuts. But like I think clearly it was like a safe space for them. Like no one was taking photos. I felt even weird just getting like my content because it felt like we got invited to this super star-studded A-list event that was like chill. It was really crazy. I figured I was talking to it. Like, did you go up to so-and-so celebrity and say that you're a fan?

I was like, that was not the vibe. It was not the vibe. That's crazy. Yeah. People were just like hanging out, having a time. Yeah. But then I just want to say one more thing that I did see the Beyonce movie last night, Renaissance.

And it was absolutely 10 out of 10 incredible. I just saw that it has 100% on Rotten Tomatoes. Wow. Miss Tina posted. But it is just, I mean, homecoming is wonderful. You love homecoming on Netflix. And I loved on the run like years ago. Yeah.

And it's just to see Beyonce. and we went to the concert and so much of it is from LA, because it was her birthday show, so it opens and it was the show that we saw. So it's so cool to watch it when you went to the concert. It plays most of the concert, but then there's all this behind the scenes. She is just such a true visionary,

and to see her creative direct and how much work she puts into it is just so astounding and just seeing what goes into the tour. And I was telling you, you're going to love it, the way she kind of needs stuff to be perfect. And there's this thing they tell her it can't be done. She's like, well, I googled it and it can't be done. Like, it's unreal.

And I felt it of just like, what's the line from double? Wars Prada and she's like, why is no one ready? It felt like that, but just, you know, Taylor, a friend that I want with, she was like, she's so generous, you know, like with what she provides to us as an artist and, you know, even doing this. And to see her as a mom, I mean, there's a whole thing with Blue Ivy and how that even happened. Blue was only supposed to do, like, one show. And then she, like, read negative commentary about her performance.

And then that really motivated her to do better and then do every show. And then, like, you see Jay-Z. And, like, I was, like, sobbing at the stuff with Blue and her. And I just love seeing her as mom and as this incredible performer and just such a visionary. She's just a creative genius and she is the most incredible voice and she works so hard. You know, like it's an honest look at like what she does to her body and how she views herself as like a machine when she's doing this and how she still wants to be a good mom and a good wife. And I just could not have enjoyed it more. And, you know, we love the concert, but we had great seats, but we weren't, like, on the floor.

You're not right in it. So you miss some things. You're talking your friends, maybe. Like, you don't really see everything that she's put into it. So I almost feel like I appreciate it more, like, being right up close and seeing everything that goes into, like, the set design. And, like, you know, she put together this, like, one girl group of these four women that sang. And I kind of missed that.

And, you know, all the things she does with, like, the drag queens and the LGBTQIA community. And I just found it to be absolutely wonderful. And, like, I would absolutely see it again. You're going to have to. I'm not going by myself. You're going to go out. I know. You really have to see it.

Our theater sucked. Like, I was seeing clips of people, like, dancing and singing. Like, I was wondering. We were excited. We were hype. We were clapping at parts. We were singing. We were, like, dancing our seats.

Our theater did not pass the vibe check. Well, L.A. It's not cool to. LA on a Sunday night. But we were just like, this theater? Why are you here? Like, to me, to see that movie, you have to be a fan.

Yeah. Like, it's not a movie. It's not like some Marvel movie that you just are going to because it's a blockbuster. Like, I can't believe you would sit through three hours of that and not be lit. I know it's crazy. I was surprised. I meant to ask you if people were up and dancing.

No. But us. So I like. Just us. And I got us the seats and we'd like the technically third row, but it's the first row of like the main part. Not the very first. But like, so we had all in front of us was like the walkway.

So we had space. And I was like, I'm glad there was no one directly in front of us. Because if I was just seen people would just be like dead in their seats, it would make me mad. So anyway, I absolutely loved it. And I used, I want to watch Taylor Swift's when she. So my dad went to. releases it.

Did I tell you this? Your dad, what did to see in the theater? In the theater with his girlfriend. No. My 76 year old dad with his girlfriend went on Taylor Swift movie. What did he say?

He loved it. He was like, she is an incredible performer. She works so hard. She's like an athlete. Do you know that she performs like five nights in a row and she'll do like 33 songs and takes no breaks? And I'm like,

yeah, dad, I'm aware of Taylor's, but he just like really was so into him. He was just like talking about her as like a performer and an athlete. And it was just so cute. And him and his girlfriend, his new girlfriend, like, see all these movies together and stuff. Okay.

Can we get Bill to go to Beyonce, too? I want him to see both. Probably. I don't know how... If they're similar at all. But I also am just been so obsessed with seeing Beyonce and Taylor Swift together. I'm just like, there's just too much power in one room.

I know. They're inviting each other to their premieres. It makes my heart... Listen, you know when Taylor stand now. I'm always a fan of her music. I'm obsessed, but the Travis Kelsey stuff got to be a little much for me, but I'm back in.

But why did Taylor Swift look so much better? for the Beyonce premiere than she did for her own premiere. Listen, I love Taylor Swift. I would honestly probably rather go to a Taylor Swift concert than a Beyonce concert. I'm a huge fan. But like,

the outfit that she wore to her own premiere and the hairdo? We talked about it the entire way to the airport that day. I thought it was an old photo. When that came up on my feet, I was like, oh, is this from 2010? I mean, I thought she was just like

rushed out the door and didn't have time to do her hair. Like she can do whatever the fuck she wants. If that's how she wanted to look, you know, that's fine. It was shocking. She showed up to the Beyonce Renaissance premiere just looking so sleek, so sexy, and a red lip with a silver dress. She looked so sexy and hot.

And Travis was like, you will not embarrass me at another premiere. Okay, you won't do it. Travis has nowhere to speak. The stuff he wears. I like how he dresses is terrible. It's giving like what kids wore like in high school, like Fubu and Fat Farr. I'm like, is this Fubu? He's like, listen, I let you do that to your hair for your premiere.

I gave you one. But you can't be looking like that. I dare my man to dress like Travis Kelsey and come at me. Sir. People were... Don't. People were accusing Taylor Swift of stealing Britney Mahomes jacket this weekend. You see this?

They were like, fans are speculating wildly. Taylor Swift has borrowed Britney Mahomes jacket for the Chiefs game. And it's like, I'm pretty sure that she has won access to anything that Brittany Mahomes has access to. And two, the funds to purchase it. People are so stupid. I'm sure. Fans are speculating wildly.

I'm sure her boyfriend could get her own jacket. Can you imagine? I think Brittany Mahomes has access to some secret super line of jackets. The Taylor Swift doesn't have access to. Travis Kelsey has also won the Super Bowl twice. And she's the most famous artist in the world. She could buy the factory that makes the jackets. Can you imagine that it comes out that she did steal the jacket?

Like one day, Brittany's like, I need to come out and tell you that Taylor stole my jacket. Taylor spilled her red drink on my jacket. She's always drinking that red drink. Taylor got ranch dressing on my jacket. That's a deep cut. Taylor got, what is it? What was it probably ranch? Was that what the whole thing?

I don't know. She had that plate. Oh, it's probably ranch. Is that what it said? Was that the headline, Dessa? Seemingly ranch. Taylor spilled seemingly ranch on my jacket. Taylor, I was filled seemingly ranch on my jacket.

Taylor, I let you barred my jacket and you're supposed to see me in the ranch on it while you're eating your chicken tenders. In the box. You're new to the box, Taylor. You don't know how box is like. Taylor's like, I've sold out this stadium more times than the chiefsab. Taylor's like, I'm just going to clean up. Have you seen that thing that she like cleans up? I can't.

Okay. No, they said she's like really down to earth. She's like hugging Travis's mom. Did you see? I like the footage of her arriving at the games. It really makes me laugh. So like when she shows up with her giant entourage. But this week she just showed up with like security.

and there's this footage of her walking in it. Britney Mahomes like bumrushes her, like, so excited. She's like the biggest hug. And Taylor's just security seemed to like brush her off a little bit. I can see that. I can see it. Like Britney's like too excited. And Taylor's security is like, please stop this.

No, Brittany Holmes is giving like new not yet housebroken puppy. Yeah. And like I think most people would be like, calm down, Brittany. I know. I get it. But like the video is funny. I got to find it. I didn't need to see that.

Okay. Is that it? That's it for me. Okay. That's it for me. Okay. Let's get into our interview. All right, guys, we are so excited to welcome our guests today.

She is a holistic psychologist and founder of the virtual healing platform, Self-Healer Circle. She is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, How to Do the Workbook, How to Meet Yourself. In addition to writing and speaking, she hosts Self-Healer Soundboard, a weekly podcast. She is the creator of the popular movement, Self-Healers. Her Instagram, The Holistic Psychologist, boasts over 7 million followers, and her new book, How to Be the Love You Seek, is out this month. Please welcome to the show, Dr. Nicole LaPara. Raina and Ashley, thank you for having me. Yes, and she's also from Philly.

Go Birds. We were both at the Super Bowl. We were just crying about it together. We were just here talking about Philly while you were inside. I was talking to a guy yesterday and somebody else in a Philly's jersey walked by and he completely cut me off to go, go birds. Was it Phillies or was the Eagles? It was Eagles. Okay.

Because the Phillies is a team too. Okay. I knew that. I think they're playing tonight too as well, right? Yeah, it's tonight. Being away from my partners, I'm like, I might actually put that on and watch it a bit. Yeah. Huge football fans.

They are? They are not. They are not. Okay. So I do not win the television. Okay. I do like to keep an eye on how they're doing. Well, you said partners, so let's just stop it right on.

We're going to get into all the things to help people navigate their lives and your book and everything, but you are in a relationship with two partners. And I just want to talk about it a little bit. Yeah. As much as you want to share. Absolutely. I think it really pertains to what we'll dive into later in terms of the learning that I have done myself as an individual and also as a clinician. A very long time ago, I used to do a lot of couples work and would endlessly try to understand my dynamics in relationships and other couples dynamics, obviously with the hope of helping people create, you know, fulfilling, connected partnerships. Sure. After myself struggling, usually we're around the same themes and we can get into

some of the reasons why we struggle around the same concepts, really committing myself and understanding. A lot of it goes into conversations around the body and I think things that aren't traditionally included when we talk about relationships. And I've come to learn how to create that safety and the security and what we really want in partnerships. And what I think we really want is space to be ourselves. However that looks in space to be emotionally supported and to give and receive support in our relationship. So saying that to say, being committed on my own personal healing journey and having been in a committed partnership with one of my partners that I'm married to for nearing about 10 years, a decade, some years ago, we started to,

after connecting with someone that we were working in business with, develop and explore the possibility of having mutual feelings without having any language at the time for what this type of relationship could be called, but really being committed to creating not only that space for ourselves to make sure that we're authentically being who we are and meeting our needs, but for the other person to do that, we gave it a go, explored the possibility of if it was, you know, what it could look like to open up a relationship and now are two years in and have to committed partners. I love that and we were talking you and Ashley and I in my house before we started recording about how it was sort of like not done that people in therapy talked about their

lives and they're just supposed to be this like, you don't have a life, you're just a soundboard, you know? And I think it's really nice to open up your life and say these are my experiences is what qualifies me to talk about these things. I'm flawed as well. I'm also trying to heal. And I just, I love you talked about. I love you open your book with these stories. You're just, you're not somebody without a story, you know? I love you talk about it. Yeah. So, and you all three live together. Live together, work together, navigate all of the complexities that come along with all those types of relationships.

Wow. Okay. I just have so many questions, but it's not even about that. This episode isn't even about that. I guess my main question, just tell me if it's too personal. But because there were two of you before and then the third person came in, does it feel like it's all equal now? Or was there a part of her feeling like an outsider at first?

Like, do you feel like it now? it's all like we've all been in this for 10 years altogether. I think that there's parts in each of us that look and compare and can easily, even though there has been a, you know, longer tenured relationship between two of us, I can easily be on the other side of, hey, wait a minute, this isn't, feels like you guys are connecting in this way. It's not doing this with me or it doesn't look the same or it doesn't feel the same. Though in the beginning, obviously I don't want to necessarily speak for her entirely. I can't fully know her experience, though. Her name is Jenna. I do think that there was, yeah, this idea of you two have established a dynamic,

a life experience, even just the practical, oh, we can reference things that we did together, right? All of these daily reminders of there wasn't us before there is now this new person. But again, I would be lying if I would say, oh, it's gone, it's not gone, and I can easily be on the other side of, wait a minute, this isn't feeling equal, there's jealousy, there's insecurity, and everything that comes along with that. I mean, it's got to be just constant growth. I mean, just even you saying things like jealousy and insecurity. You know, like, I just can't imagine it.

So I just feel like life. I can't imagine two people dating me. I can't imagine them dating each other because I don't want to be left out. But I can have two people date me. Yeah. I'm just like, it's got to be all intertwined in what you also do for work of like your personal growth and like managing those feelings. No one in a relationship like that can probably, I would assume, sit and say that there's no jealousy,

no insecurity, no feeling left out ever. Yeah, and there's not always moments of growth. There's moments of challenge, of dysregulation of like what feels like going backwards. Right. A lot because to some extent, while Lolly and I entered in what we'll probably talk about a bit, a trauma bond, right? All of these dysfunctional patterns that on some level attracted us to each other because they were familiar that ultimately created a lot of conflict.

and we did a lot of evolution and fell into a more stable and, you know, a secure dynamic with each other ultimately, though it then meant that with a new person, there's a new reorganization, new challenges come up, right? I'm challenged in new ways by this new person. There's a different relationship that we're building. So again, I think at moments, even to this day, it feels like there's a back stepping kind of going back into, you know, arguments and conflict and trying to navigate a new reorganization of life where it can feel like there's an equal partnership where we're each three unique individuals honoring that relationships and our dynamics will feel different always because we're different people relating, though creating the security nonetheless.

I think that's great to also let people know too. You do this for a living. You're a professional and you still fall into those things. So people should give themselves grace that it's not always growth. It might feel like you're one step forward, two steps back, no matter what, do you try to share my attitude. Totally. Because I do know that there is ideas and projections and this belief, even when I was in my, you know, clinical mode of doing therapy that like you were sharing earlier, I ran into this idea of a blank slate, right? There then is all of this idea of who we are as people. And I do think often it is an idealized version where we must not struggle. When in reality, I mean, for as long as I can remember, I struggled with anxiety, with panic attacks through my 20s. Of course, with relationship issues and dysfunctional patterns and ways that I coped. And I do think that healing happens in two levels, one of which when we are, like I think we were talking about a bit before, when we do hear other people's journeys, when they do share the human side of the struggles so we can feel a little less alone. And of course, it also happens. And this really is what motivated me to begin to work holistically to bridge that gap between, okay, well, I'm not alone or I have this new insight and this new awareness. Now, what do I do with it? And a lot of us, I think, continue to struggle to create actual.

change to repair our relationship with ourselves or to connect with who we are and explore that so we can then connect authentically with another person. And that really is an embodiment practice. That kind of bridging that gap isn't just reading the right book, right? It is actually about creating change by making new choices. And I think, again, that comes in both of those steps. Sure. Well, you mentioned being holistic. So you're a holistic psychologist. How is that different than like traditional psychology, quote unquote. It honors. And again, I trained very much traditionally,

so much so that I was in for very many years, a psychoanalytic program. So anyone who's familiar with Freud or this idea of a couch and just talking quite literally. So I was very much heavy on this idea of talking and sharing our feelings and gaining insight in that more kind of mental

or cognitive way. And of course, I went to a training program, as many do, were CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, you change your thoughts, you change the way you act is the gold standard. And it took, again, me expanding and learning new integrative approaches, but also my own journey of realizing that talking only goes so far. Working with clients who week after week of me, we could come up with incredible insight and awareness. And they still were unable to bridge that gap and to actually change in some

way to help them manage their symptoms or change a dynamic in the relationship. So really simply, holistic work honors the body, the reason why we're stuck, many of us. is because of our subconscious mind and how we're wired and how we prefer this familiar, even if we have all of these glaring red flags in our relationships in particular, have very well-meaning friends that are like, don't do this again. There's a very real part of our neuropsychology wired into us that prefers that familiar, that's become used to ourselves in this way and our role in relationship. So until we include the body, I think we remain stuck that when we include the body,

I think there can be life-changing transformation. Maybe part of why you backslide in the first place when you know better, quote unquote. You know, if it was all your mind, you wouldn't do these things that you like supposedly learned how to do differently. You know what I mean? Like in relationships when you're like, I shouldn't have done that. I'm better than that. I learned the way to manage this conflict differently. And it's like, you know, if you feel it in your body sometimes.

Well, losing weight is exactly that. You know every step that you can take to lose weight. Like I have a Peloton upstairs. I have every organic ingredient. I'm glad my fingertips a block away. I want to eat pizza. I want to order a sub and watch football in bed and go to sleep. That's what's comfortable.

Yeah, that's a better example. But you wrote this book, How to Be the Love That You Seek. And really so much of it is about stopping asking other people to make you whole and to fulfill you and that they should change to make you better and that you should change to make them feel better. And I really love the book and related to it. So maybe we could just start with sort of the dynamic that you were in with one of your current partners that made you write the.

the book. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it for me was a dynamic that I saw in all of my relationships where, I think unconsciously, like many of us, we do look outside of ourselves to feel, to feel connected, to feel loved, if only you showed up in this way or didn't do that thing. And I mean, I was very much that person after being a serial monogamous, since I started dating when I was about 16 years old, I had my first boyfriend, and then that shifted into girlfriends in college. and ultimately I would come to the conclusion, you know, at some point after feeling consistently disconnected emotionally, that usually was my main complaint, we're just not connected. I'm not, I'm not feeling, right? This attunement, this love, this thing I need from you, even though it was

very hard for me to define what it was. Ultimately, I would diagnose the issue as them, right? You're not giving me what I need. And before long, because either I acted out and the relationship imploded or exploded or it ended on its own, I would then seek out another partner. And then I became a trained psychologist and I was really fascinated in dynamics. So I got into couples work for a very long time. And now I would sit in a room with couples who week after week would try very well-meaning and well intentionally to communicate the way I need you to be different, to define a new thing that I want you to do or that I don't want you to do.

And I would see feeling very disempowered as a clinician in the room, feeling very unfulfilled in my personal relationships, I would see the same patterning, right? Things either wouldn't change or there would be attempts to change, which is what I experienced, increasing resentment building up, right? You're modifying me. You're making me be someone I'm not. Maybe I'm overstepping my boundaries to do something in service of you

when I don't have the people please earn me. When I don't have the resources to even show up for me in this moment, before long, it's very natural then that we, right, you're the problem, so you must be the change. So all of this learning and shift in myself came when I learned again about the body and how important it is for us to be an individual who has separate needs and to make sure our needs are being met, including our needs for self-expression. I believe that's an emotional need that we each share.

We have it in childhood to be safe, to be valued, which is to be seen, heard, and appreciate it for just being ourselves. And of course, very few of us have gotten that in childhood because we were raised by generations of people who didn't have the tools and the resources and the education to, right, create that space for ourselves. So we just modify ourselves over time. And I think that's why we end up being so unfulfilled. Not only are we asking someone to do different than what is natural to them, in reality, we're not actually seeking that thing we think. We're not seeking that gesture or that word of affirmation. We're actually seeking a deeper feeling of that emotional

attunement. And I think, again, that comes when we understand ourselves, meet our needs, learn how to be. And what inspired the workbook that came out right before this book that is entitled, How to Meet Yourself is, I think, to honor the journey that many of us on, that I know I woke up in my 30s, right, this idea of I should know who I am. I had no idea who I was. Because the person I was being for so many years was based on, again, who I had to be in childhood to get what version of connection was available. So when we understand who we are, when we learn how to create the space for that self-expression, I think then we're able to release this expectation that someone show up in a particular way,

and I think we're able to embody what, to speak to the title of the book, how to be love. Love is actually a state of heart-connectedness, of security and self-expression, where we're actually able to create that safety and the security for someone else to be who they are. I don't know where to start. Love languages? And I want to talk about trauma bonds and define them, even though I think, you know, that words get used a lot.

we want to hear it from you and your experience. But is there also just a point where you're like, this is the right person. You know, like this person isn't actually going to meet your needs. It can't all be on you to be your full self. Like at some point it's like this isn't the right match to. Oh, 100%. I mean, relationships, we are wired as humans as a species. This is how we've learned to not only survive but thrive.

We're wired to need other people from, I mean, back in time, it was really based around division of labor and this idea. of the right, I hunt, you keep care of the kids or you know, you make the food or whatever it is, right, based on necessity. So we need those relationships. And there's also, again, that emotional component. We are able to tolerate more stressful experiences when we don't feel alone, when we have that support. So absolutely, Ashley, to speak to your point, there's a give and take. We all kind of want to have the space to express our needs, to share our feelings, to feel supported and to give and receive that quite equally. So I do think, however, in terms of finding the right person, we need to become aware of what we're seeking. Because many of us are seeking the familiar. And what is familiar, like I was sharing earlier, for many of us in childhood, isn't actually meeting our needs fully. And I think when we're really talking about conversation on the right person, we're talking about the deeper stuff, right? Do our values align?

Do we want the same thing for our future? And again, I think for a lot of us, these aren't even conversations that we might, not know for ourselves and or we're too afraid to have that conversation early in a relationship with someone else in fear of not hearing, right, the answer that we want. Right. There are some people that just aren't going to meet your needs, at least for me. Like the love languages is an interesting conversation because I dated somebody who just, there was no words of affirmation, never said anything nice to me. And I didn't need that because I needed to feel good about myself. I already created the self-confidence of myself. I just want you to be proud of me sometimes. Tell me I look hot. And he

refused to give it to me. But I think we were at an impasse where I kept saying, like, I need more from you. I need you to do this. And it was at some point that I just had to be like, this is not who you're going to be ever. Right. Because I mean, there's got to be a line where there's like, at some point, your partner could do a few tweaks here and there

to be in a better relationship, to be a better partner. And then there's like, you're trying to change them. You know, and like people may struggle with where's that line. You know, like he should do the dishes. But it's inauthentic to him. changing like who someone is at their core is like a different thing. So I think that's sometimes

like some mental gymnastics. And again, speaking with the professional helps of like, you know, where's the line? And I think if we dive down to whether it's the dishes or these words of affirmation, what is it that you really want, right? Possibly, not to speak for you. I want to be seen. I want to be appreciated. I want to know you're proud of me in this area of my existence, right, to the dishes. Maybe I want you to understand that I have emotional, I have an emotional bandwidth and I need you to physically take some of these, I'm just like hypothesizing, right? I need you to take some of these daily, you know, kind of stressors off my plate so it feels a little more equal and I feel support it. Maybe that's what you're looking for. So the familiar gesture might have been, right, the dishes and I very

much come from a family, my mom, unable to emotionally connect with me, love me through these physical acts of care. There was always dinner on my table. My clothes were always washed and ironed, right, and all the thing. So naturally, that's what I decide it and projected my need onto all of my partners. And when they weren't doing that, I would demand that they're not caring for me. So when we understand, I think, the deeper need, we can maybe expand out and not demand that person, because I actually fell into a lot of conflict with Lolly around this really quickly, who in her childhood would actually be on the receiving end of explosive reactivity because she very much struggles based on her neuro-wiring to do those She comes from a family who didn't have this structured way of caring.

They didn't have family meals. Everyone bend it for themselves, right? So I would come home exploding that things weren't done for me until I understood that what I need to feel is support. And then that expanded the conversation without me demanding because that was really activating, making her and her now feeling like she's not being a loving partner because she can't put dinner on the table when this doesn't come naturally to her. Expand it to, okay, what are ways that you can.

can support me in other aspects of our life. And I was able to then remove the blinders because she had been doing them all along. I was just so focused on this one display that I think many of us become, because that's what's familiar, that I was losing sight of all of the other million moments and how invalidating was that for her. She's hearing me tell her, you don't care about me when she's like, Nicole, I've done 10 things in care of you today that you've actually not notice. So again, just to honor the reality that, yeah, if we understand, I think, what's driving it, we can expand a conversation and maybe make space for the possibility that our needs are getting met or can be getting met in a different way. It's funny you say that because that was my

partner at the time's reaction was I do all these nice things for you. I make plans. Like I find new restaurants that I think would be fun. I find food festivals. I buy us tickets to these sporting events. Like I show you every day that I care about you. And I think that people sometimes can't express love in a way that they don't receive it. And so if he was like, I don't need to hear these things. I don't need to hear that you're proud of me and that I'm great, then maybe he had a hard time expressing things like that. Well, so yeah, let's talk about the love language. I mean, I don't want to see you debunk them in your book, but you discuss what you're saying now. And like they don't have to look so black and white and like people have bought in maybe have overcorrected on them. You know, absolutely. I think they're absolutely valuable to the extent that for many of us, even the concept of what you're sharing, right, is this idea. that people aren't me. And while that might seem really simplistic, that is how our mind works. I mean, I even think about childhood, right?

If you think back to before you had friends and went and saw their homes, I'm sure you imagined on some level, all of the homes on the block looked the same. They have the same constellation of parents or lack of of and dinner times. And then you go over and like, oh, wow, this is different. This is crazy.

So I want to normalize. We all do that, right? Or not crazy, or I wish I had it or whatever it is. Right. we are blinded to what we know and what we've become familiar with. So love languages are groundbreaking and can be because they introduce us to a different person with different preferences driven by different life experiences, though I think that. And of course, it's a great point of conversation to begin to speak about those differences.

And again, these are areas that I don't think all of us are so comfortable doing in relationships. For me, I know I used to just have this idea and I used to, you know, dig my speech. you're into this idea that you should just know. And if you just don't know, you're not the right person for me. But again, I have to check myself. I only know what I know. And I'm going to project what I know to be true and how I feel about this thing onto you until you tell me otherwise. So, so important to have the conversations. Love languages can be a gateway into this idea of otherness. So we can allow each person to beautifully be who they are and still remain connected to the relationship, which is all what we want. However, just going back to the conversation we just kind of had,

if that is all we're relying on, especially because for some of us, those definitions of love were born and created in an environment where there was other aspects of our being and our needs that were going unmet. Now, again, we're placing that demand on someone that not only is going to cause frustration, especially if we're controlling and coercing and making and manipulating them to be and they're not going to feel good about it. And the reality of it is we're not either because we're still having an unmet need in some time and some place because we're just so reliant on this again thing we learned in childhood. Totally. I just love what you said of like, you should just know. If you were my soulmate, if you were my person, you would just know.

It's just like that might not be your person, but that also is like we always say that. Like someone can't read your mind. And I love what you said. We think a certain way because all we know is what we know. A lot of it's from childhood. So it's just like this. person a totally different childhood. They're a different person. How are they supposed to know? Right. Start from a different baseline. And, you know, most of us have 25, 30 years of conditioning before we meet that person. So it's like, you should just know, you don't know anything about me. Like, how can I have any idea what it feels like, you know, on the surface? It might look like somebody has that white picket fence and great family and that's not at all what it was, you know?

And just to kind of overlay my journey really quickly on that, right? My need for emotional connection was based in this belief, right? You should just know how I feel so that you can emotionally support me or attuned to me or whatever is I need it in that moment. However, I came to realize that in my own blinded way of being my familiar habitual patterns, I was not actually communicating ever my true emotions. Because again, when I didn't have that safety and security and childhood, I learned to squash them, felt too vulnerable for me. So I was even at odds with myself. I needed you so badly. And I still see moments of this in my current relationship where I need so badly to be support it yet I feel so vulnerable sharing what it is that I feel to gain that support around. So we get

stuck in these complicated, unfulfilling cycles that I call trauma bonds that again are really colored by what we've become used to. Well, let's talk about trauma bonds because I think it's really important that you're in this relationship now for 10 years that is healthy and you're committed, but it started that way. So obviously that's not a death sentence for a connection. And we just want to talk about what this is. I feel like this is another one of those things that gets thrown around. on TikTok and on the internet and probably misused, and it's part of the zeitgeist now. So we want to break it down. I think the way I would define trauma bonds, and I've heard many different definitions,

but I think it, again, is the oftentimes dysfunctional or habitual patterns that we've learned to relate in childhood. And how, again, because all of that is wired, I talk about a concept of bringing the holistic piece in, a condition selves, right? These aren't just beliefs. I need you to be a certain way for me to feel loved, right? these are actually, I need to feel a certain way, whether or not it's kind of riding the roller coaster of stress and chaos that many of us become familiar with. And if that's not there, this is boring,

this isn't love. I'm out of the relationship, right, or whatever it is. So trauma bonds are the patterns that we learned in childhood because we need humans. We need, we're dependent upon at least one other person to care, quote, unquote, enough for us to show up to keep us physically alive. what we do, because we will always prioritize our survival, we're driven by our nervous system and our physiology, because we're also so attentive and so attuned, we'll begin to modify who it is that we are and how it is that we show up to continue to fit into whatever version of love, quote unquote, or connection is available. And then because we're very habitual creatures, we'll continue to coast on that autopilot, right, outside of our awareness, not even realizing what we're doing, because this is normal.

This is what a relationship is. This is what love is and more so because these patterns are wired into our neurophysiology. Like you were sharing, I know better and I can't stop myself. And I've been in those moments where I'm like, oh, I can almost be my mind's eye wondering why I'm saying this thing that I know I don't want to say right now. And I just can't not say it because, again, we are driven

just as much by our body, if not more than we are by these very insightful, you know, hypothetical ways that the new relationship book taught us that we should be. were so driven by that body. And those patterns again began in childhood because that's what we need it to be. And we continue to maintain those over time until, of course, we become conscious to them or present to what it is that we're doing

and how we are participating in terms of getting our needs met or not. And then begin to make the new choices to create a more secure relationship, yes, which is exactly what I did. So thank you for asking that, Ashley, because a lot of people are like, oh, my God, I come to the awareness.

I have all these dysfunctional patterns in my relationship. Do I have to leave? Absolutely not. Okay, right. As I become conscious, I can begin to do my part, right? Not just focusing on what I need you to do different, right? What will I do?

In absence of you being able to show up in this different way, how will I continue to evolve and to make sure that I'm being a safe and secure human? And the end of the road might be for some of us, I will choose to leave the relationship before I'm in my current marriage. I actually left a past marriage when I came to the conclusion that that wasn't an aligned relationship for me, though not all of the time. If you're present, I think that you can create incredible change. only in yourself, but in your relationships.

Can I ask a question about trauma botany? Can it just sort of be like you're seeking out people to repeat the same patterns that you had from childhood? So if you come from like to use an example of my own life, like my mom, there was no words of affirmation in the house and there was a lot of screaming. So that's probably what I'm a little more comfortable in. Like is it seeking out people to repeat that pattern? Yeah, it's conscious, unconscious.

You might even some of us define. I need this high emotional relationship where, again, the emotions that we're talking about are these more kind of elevated screaming emotions. And for others, it's much more unconscious. We, like, again, can't stop ourselves, continue to hear from friends that this is another one of those patterns, yet we can't seem to physiologically detach from it. You know, you hear people speak a lot about,

like, they know that they want the highs and the lows. Like the easy, safe, secure is not exciting enough for them. I don't feel that way. I want it to be so easy. I don't want a bunch of ups and downs. I've had that relationship. the past, it was a nightmare. And it was like normal for him. He grew up a lot differently. So I think he felt totally at home when they were screaming and yelling and we were, you know, super volatile. And I was

like, this is my nightmare. Like, I'm screaming? What do you mean? Like, I don't loud, but I'm just like, I'm yelling at somebody. My neighbors can hear it. Like, this is so foreign to me. And now I'm in this relationship. I'm like, this is so nice. I'm waiting for like, what are they going to have a problem? It's guys thinking about this morning. It's just easy. It should be easy. It's not easy for everybody. and I do think that like it. I'm happy in it. A lot of people wouldn't be, they'd be like, wait, this isn't exciting, you know. And I'm willing to work through that stuff. Like I dated somebody who came from very extreme trauma.

And if this was a person I'd seen a long-term future with, a marriage, I would have really happily gone to therapy a couple of times to just get some tools to help better hear each other. Because I remember these fights where he'd be screaming, I'd be like, I hear you, I understand. He'd be like, you don't fucking hear me. And I'd be like, I'm sitting here, I'm letting you in, I'm experiencing you, I'm hearing you. And he'd be like screaming, no, you're not. So I would have been happy to go to a therapist and get some tools.

I did. I'd have been a long-term partner option for me. I went to therapy to understand him better, you know, and obviously the ultimate didn't work out. And my therapist and I had this moment, we were like, we're done here. We'll go let him know. And he stayed in therapy, which was wonderful for him. But once I realized his relationship was totally over.

You think you're your therapist, you're like, which one of us is going to tell him? You do it out, no. Well, she hooked him up with his therapist. So I was like, can you tell his therapist that this is over? I'm kidding. But we were like, we've come to the end of the road. This relationship we've tried, we've all tried. And this is it.

But it was actually a really sad moment when her and I were just like, we did all we can do. But let's talk about relationships being empowered or disempowered. And you have such a great graph, no table in the book. I guess, yeah, like a split screen out. We love the visual in the book about this. But we want to talk through it with you, of course, what this means. Absolutely. I think empowerment.

general as a concept begins when I've used the word conscious a couple times, but when we become aware of all of these patterns, these dynamics, aware of the different thoughts or belief that live both in our mind and our body, right? What are the habitual narratives for me, right? One of mine, the dinner's not on the table, the house isn't clean, you're not considering me, right? All of those similar stories that we tell ourselves in our mind, right, the person I am, the person I'm hypothetically looking for, we'll become aware of also the emotions in our body. And the reality, and the reality, that no one is responsible nor can they be for how we feel. Our emotions, right, are very much oftentimes. So even using that example again, right, the dishes that aren't done or the dinners

that's not on the table, it's causing my upset, right? I'm having a feeling. If we really want to dig down to it, it's not about the dishes at all. It's not about the absence of dinner at all. It's about the narrative that I've assigned to it, which I learned in my childhood, right? This is indicative of you not considering me. That's my particular language. And then how I feel, right? Now for me, an accumulation of decades of how I feel not having my, in particular, emotional needs considered.

So it's not to invalidate how we're feeling our emotions in general because they're very real physiological experience is that what I so easily blamed on the absence of the dinner or the dishes being done, right, and gave to you. with the solution being just do the dishes or make the there. And I won't feel that way. In reality, it's not your responsibility. And you didn't cause them at all, right? What caused them is all of this mental network and narratives and emotions that I've stored over time.

So when we become conscious, I believe we become empowered. And of course, I go through all of these different points. But it really is based in the idea of the book itself, which is creating the space for two unique individuals to join together, exploring themselves, sharing their thoughts, their perspectives, their emotions, yes, being supported and connected to. And I talk a lot about the science of the heart and co-regulation and the physiological reality that we can connect and feel safer like I was sharing earlier and connecting with another person and getting that receiving of support that we want and need. And when we create the space for that, we can honor the fact that there are two unique

individuals that can join together. I love that you're sitting on a couch. to do a lot of couch work with couples and really the idea of sitting next to each other, right? Me uniquely as me and you uniquely as you is we're looking together with a shared vision of the future. And really becoming conscious. And of course, the book outlines all of these different practices and how to attune to your own thoughts or your ego stories like I call them. And all of these created identities, the conditioned selves that I referenced earlier, how to drop in your body and become aware of how you feel, how to begin to take responsibility and learn how to self-soothe. and how to open up for those connection moments.

Because the biggest thing I learned, not having emotional connection like I was sharing earlier, it being unfamiliar, right? Not only does it feel vulnerable to share my feelings, it still feels very vulnerable for me to receive that common loving support because my body goes right back to how I never had that in childhood, right? And all of these things I had to do and contort myself to even get that to begin with. So really what an empowered relationship is is being conscious. to ourselves in every moment so that we can not only create the space and meet our needs

so that we can be who we are in a very common grounded way, but so that we can actually allow someone else to do that too, not to ban them to be a certain way so that we feel a certain way to actually create that safety in our own body. Because again, I go a lot into the science of how powerful that is, how a calm regulated nervous system and a person in heart-brain coherence are really connected to their heart and their ability to be compassionate and care about someone who's different, how that really does kind of transmit energy out that allows someone else to relax into who they are to. Well, you said something about not being responsible for someone else's emotional well-being.

I don't know if that's the exact language you use. But I was in a relationship where I felt like that. And I was just constantly just like jumping through hoops, contorting myself to like make sure he was, I felt responsible for his emotional state, you know, and it became really toxic. I think that's just like really important. I think sometimes you really are thinking like I feel this way because this person didn't do this thing or did do this thing. You know, and it's actually, that's not the truth. Which that's not to say that someone can't do something that hurts you and disrespects you and all those things aside. But, you know, I think people get wrapped up in this like

subconsciously thinking that their partner is responsible for their emotions in the way that they feel day to day. And chances are because they've lived that experience. There was a time and a place with some caregiver, right, that they had to attune to so much. to avoid the explosion, to for me avoid the disconnection. I got so attuned to my mom and what could disappoint her or upset her that I watered myself down completely and shared nothing with her because when she was upset, she would disconnect from me. She would give me the silent treatment.

So I very much became actually that person who was like, let me be, and sometimes we call it an empathic, really were just wired to be hypervigilant because that was the way we were able to, again, for me, avoid that moment of disconnection. that was going to put me at risk for my survival or avoid that explosion, right? So we become so attuned outward, though, the byproduct of that if we're always focused on someone else and contorting ourselves, chances are our needs are probably not being met and

or we're overstepping our boundaries and our resources. And then, yes, to speak to your beautiful point, we do have boundaries and limits and things that, right, we need to do differently if you are to cross them. But notice I'm using the language of what I will do differently. Right. Right. This is where my boundary. You can continue to yell and scream at me if that's the mode you're in or kind of how you're navigating what's coming up for you and your dysregulation.

And as that continues, I will not be available to you anymore. I will not take your calls. I might even not be in a relationship with you. So I just wanted to make that switch because it is important to honor our boundaries and our limits. And for years and decades, I didn't know where mine were because I was so attuned to everyone else and what I needed to do to make sure that we continue this relationship, even if it was on this dysfunctional pattern of chaos and stress. I really had to begin to say, okay, I am a person. Here's what I need to happen.

And if you're not going to show up in the way that I need you to, I'm going to show up in the way that I need me to. I'm imagining this fight between a couple and like you're yelling at the other person. You're like, I need you to change. I need you to be something different. And they yell back at you. I need you to change what you need. And it really makes me laugh because no one's ever said that to me.

But that is sort of what you're saying. It's like instead of constantly telling to somebody like, I need you to change and give me something else. It's like, well, why don't you give you what you need? Why don't you change what you need? Or that's not your right person to be with, right? Like, ultimately, you can't do either of those things. They can't give it to you and you can't readjust what you're asking for.

Then that isn't the right person for you to be with. Yeah, I mean, that's what we want to talk about. Like, there's this chapter in the book and you use this couple as an example. And they've been together for like four years. And every time she wants to move the relationship forward, move in together, he freaks out. They have a big fight about it. And I mean, she had to work on kind of herself.

But I want to talk to that. But I also want to be like, at what point do you stop shape shifting, you know, in a relationship? And I guess that is like, right, when your boundaries are crossed, when I don't know. I just, I find it like fascinating. Like how far do you take it? And what point is it too much? And then you're not being true to yourself anymore. Absolutely.

And this particular couple based on their childhood experiences, again, just to give a short cap of it, the one partner based on his child learned a habit of because he was unable. He didn't know how to navigate uncomfortable conversations. Did not learn that in childhood. His boundaries overstepped a lot in his childhood home. So any kind of uncomfortable conversation or thought or idea or kind of infringement of boundary space in particular would cause him to go into a threat reaction.

And I outlined in the book all these different ways are nervous as to come and deal with threats, what that feels like in the body and then what that looks like behaviorally. Because this particular partner would flee. or as I call kind of detached from difficult conversation. So anytime something uncomfortable came up, which could even be, and as it was in this context, a conversation about the future of a relationship.

Several years in, the one partner started to discuss possibilities of sharing their desire for marriage in the future, which I think is completely appropriate and important. If you want a committed partnership, it's something helpful to talk about to share, to make sure, again, that's an idea of alignment with goals and values for the relationship. So every time it would come up, this particular partner would pick up the cell phone, scroll, change the subject, oh, I got to go answer a work email, leaving the partner who brought the conversation up to feel rejected. Oh, this must mean that, you know, he cannot be available to me.

He doesn't want these things for me. So then that, of course, caused like dominoes a reaction. Now, I'm feeling threatened. I'm feeling like we're not aligned. I love you and want to be committed to you. And here you're leaving this conversation for something that's not important. You're scrolling, you know, football times or whatever. whatever it is, you know, you must not want that. So now I'm going into. So this couple

cycled through this with each of them pinging, right? I'm feeling threatened because you're bringing up something uncomfortable and I don't know how to talk about it. You're now feeling threatened because I'm distracted and not giving you the attention that you want and need and you're feeling rejected. So now you're going to react the way your nervous system is programmed. And so it went on until the one partner in particular came to the awareness, the one who would bring up marriage on several occasions, knew enough, began to explore enough about his partner's childhood to begin to understand that this wasn't anything about me at all in this moment. These things are big conversations that feel uncomfortable and you're afraid.

If we move in, you're not going to have time with your friends or this separate room for you and space. And this is what some of us want and will continue to need even if we decide to cohabitate and being a committed partnership, right? Just because one person wants to share every room and do everything together doesn't mean that that works for both parties. The other partner might want time away with their friends once a week or their or their own secret room to like do whatever they want and live however they want. So as that became

clearer in those moments, not to say that the conversations weren't still difficult and the one partnered in try and distract away from it, though what was different was the awareness so that the person who was becoming activated, right? Oh, now you don't want to talk about this thing about marriage. I can regulate myself and my body and not take it personally and begin to then create the space instead of running after you when you're leaving the room and demanding you. talk about it now, I can actually create the safety and the security that you need because to speak to, I think, all of the points we've been making, the conversations are still important. Yeah.

Right. Coming back around to say, well, what are we going to do? I want to get married. Is this something that's in alignment with you? I would like us to live together, right? It opened up, though, when we changed the relationship with not taking it personally and assigning those old meanings, that person was able to, were able to change how we react. and the more calmer and grounded we are

and the more aware of when our partner is in a common grounded state because oftentimes when we want to have a conversation is not the time to always have a conversation, it actually opened up the possibility of having conversations, of coming up with a workable plan, a timeline is to use this couple again to move in and then what moving in and living would look like when that choice did happen.

I like that you bring up this concept of rejection because I think that that woman felt like you just don't want to live with me and you're not interested in this relationship for it it was so much deeper than that, and he wasn't rejecting her. He was rejecting this lifestyle. Maybe he needed to mourn what it meant to not be a solo person anymore. And that really didn't have anything to do with her as a person. That meant that he need to mourn how he used to be and what he thought his life was going to be. And I think that we boil a lot of stuff down to rejection when in fact that's not the core of what somebody is really expressing to you. Yeah. But I like that you

also said, like, these conversations still need to happen. So in a perfect world, she would have brought up this conversation about moving in together and he would have not felt threatened. And he would have been like, here are my concerns about it. I love you and I want to be with you and I'm committed to you. But here's why I'm a little, you know, and it would have been this like beautiful conversation. But like because he couldn't get there, because of how he grew up or whatever the reason is, they like couldn't do it. So it's like, it's still important to realize that if this man had like this refusal to completely have the conversation, then that's a different animal. Then I'm glad that the outcome was that she was able to create the safe space for him to

eventually share the concerns, right? And have the conversation. Because you can't just erode every one of my boundaries. And I'm just going to be like, well, your mom didn't love you and I was a child. And so I'm just going to let you shit all over me, you know? Like there has to be a balance of it. And the reality of it is, you could have heard that that actually won't work. And I do think in terms of relationships in general, I think as we begin to honor

ourselves more and all of the uniqueness and our expression and our wants and our needs, I do think that there can be different ways of being in a relationship. though the reality of it is, it might come down to like, no, I don't want this committed idea of marriage and what you want for your future isn't what I want for my future. And it might not be workable. But even going back to rejection really quickly, we tend to personalize most of the happenings in our world. And therefore, when we're personalizing what you're doing, what you're not doing, what you're expressing, what you're not expressing, the natural then byproduct is to feel rejected. I just want to highlight that because as social creatures, rejects,

actually is really problematic. There was a time and a place where if we didn't fit in to the group that kept us safe from the opposing group per se, we were actually at risk. And rejection and social isolation and exclusion actually activates in our brain the same neural pathways that physical pain does. And I just wanted to highlight that because it's normal. We're wired to be perceiving and to be on alert for the possibility of rejection. And again, a lot of of us are going back to those childlike models or ways of being and putting those filters on and seeing and feeling and personalizing all of the events in our world. And I'm using childlike not to minimize us, but to just talk developmentally. And again, when we're feeling threatened,

when that pathway is being activated, we are going to personalize these things, which is why, just to continue to read our at this point, the body is so important. To be able to zoom out And like we all have the capacity of being, right, of this being, and saying, oh, okay, what you're doing in that example isn't about me at all. Your inability to talk about marriage is everything to do with your childhood and nothing to do with me at all, right? That is, again, based in a calm, grounded nervous system where I'm not cycling through a reaction to that very real threat that is wired into us as a species. I think fear of rejection is crippling. I mean, in romantic relationships and career, you know, not wanting to like go out on a limb or apply for a job or this and that. I think it's just like you're constantly trying to grow and like get

past it, whatever area of life. So I just, I'm glad we like validated that. Like that causes people to just not date completely. I have a fear of rejection to this day. One of the most difficult things for me when I hung my virtual shingle up as a holistic psychologist was what will people think? Because I was used to presenting myself, not only as a clinician that was taught right not to be this person, but as this like not needy, not vulnerable. I have nothing. wrong with me, right, person in my relationships that actually beginning to bear myself more authentically on a camera, doing something that was difficult and that I wasn't immediately good at, the overachiever and me would avoid things if they didn't come naturally and easily, right? So now

I'm struggling and fumbling and flailing my hands because I'm so nervous and oh my God, you're going to reject me not only how I am, what I'm saying. I had a lot of fear of what will the other professionals in the world think about me, showing, bearing myself, right? And to this day, I mean, it is still difficult in a lot of moments to put myself out there knowing that they're going to be all different types of interpretations about me as a person, about my beliefs, about my way of being, about my relationship. I mean, that was hugely there when I began to disclose this new version of an expanded relationship. And again, just wanting to normalize that doesn't go away, especially, I don't know if the two of you feel this way. Because I think a lot of times when you see someone being public, you assume that, right, there must be a comfort in being. in this way. And again, I just want to speak for my own experience. It's still there, this idea

of what will you think? Will you not understand me? Will you misinterpret me? Won't you like me? And that is very real. And sometimes it's even backed by seeing what people think that aren't so positive. So again, it doesn't go away even if you're living in action of being yourself. I think you just get better at managing it or understanding it. Like, it's just a constant challenge. No one doesn't have a fear of rejection. That's crazy. You know, like I don't know what I want to be liked, of course I do, but you know, we've done 300 episodes of this podcast week after week. I put myself out there. I tell my stories. You could take it or leave it. And through doing this for almost six years, now I'm able to say, like, I hope you like me and I try to be a good person

and a nice, kind, open person. And if you don't, that's okay too. You don't have to listen to show. And I'm comfortable in that now. And it's taking me a lot of years doing that. But yeah, I don't want to be rejected. I want people to write mean things about me on the internet. But if you do, that's none of my business. That says everything about you and nothing about me. But we were talking about this with a friend recently, a friend of ours and a mutual friend of mine that, like, is that type of really overachieving professionally successful person. And I mean, we feel as though her fear of rejection is completely stopped her from dating altogether. Like can't fathom someone ghosted or dumping or anything like that to the point where she's kind of decided to opt out completely, which is sad. You know, I hope she can figure that out.

But we were, I don't know, we could also be wrong, but we were kind of analyzing her. like this really cool, high, successful woman. Like, why isn't she wanting to date? And our friend was like, I think it's truly this like, who knows what's happened in the past. Like the rejection, the insecurities, the dating stuff, I think obviously there's stuff from childhood, but just growing up, you know, like middle school, high school. You know, those things, they stay with you forever. You know, I'll realize that. I'm like, some insecurity comes up from like the way that I felt when I was a teenager.

Just like everlasting scars. Oh, yeah. It's so interesting when I'm like, well, this is re-triggering from this thing that happened when I was 12 and 13. But like, it is real to me. I want to unpack a concept in the book that I wrote down about your ego story. How to let go of our ego story by using empowerment consciousness to challenge the beliefs that we are not worthy and make new choices about how we want to act. So can we talk about what ego story is? Yeah, absolutely. So again, I think this is another concept open to interpretation with what ego is in general, the way, the simple way. I like to simplify a lot of these things. because I think if we don't understand or see these moments, it's really hard then to navigate our ego in a different way. So simply our ego is our narrative about us, about who we are, about our place in the world, about what we're worthy of or not worthy of.

And again, this is built over time based on our lived experiences. So I want to continue to honor the realness of these beliefs and how we feel, right, these ways. And many of us I've come to realize, especially as I've now had the opportunity to connect with, right outwardly very successful people who have achieved incredible things in their life people I would have never imagined to be in the same room with at any point in my past yet here I am and I continue to hear a same core ego belief which is this idea that I'm not worthy and where ego

stories come from in terms of our lived experiences our mind is always trying to make sense of what's happening around us it's how we get a sense of control of understanding and it has that function, I should say from the moment we're born. So we're always kind of assessing, observing the world around us, trying to make some sort of sense of it. So when things happen developmentally from birth until around age seven, whatever is happening or not happening in our world, whatever need is being met or not being met, we're in what is called an egocentric stage of development, which simply means everything revolves around me. We don't have that ability. I was describing earlier to zoom out to hover to say, I'm one me and you're a different me and there's a lot of

things that might have happened and that are factors that might contribute to my parent being physically present or not physically present, emotionally available or not emotionally available or whatever it is in terms of our unique circumstance. When we lack that ability, whatever is happening or not happening, the only way that our developmentally immature mind can make sense of it is by pointing the finger right back at us. They're not present because of me. My need, whether it's physical or emotional, right, is not being met because of something I'm doing or not doing something inherently wrong with me, which is why when it really comes down to it, most of us at our core, no matter how outwardly successful we are, believe that we're not worthy to some extent. Why? Because somewhere in

childhood, some need, whether it's physical or emotional, that we needed to consistently be met, wasn't met. And the only way our childhood brain made sense of it was, it's not being met because I'm not worthy enough for someone to care enough to show up to tend to me or to care for me in the way that I need. Now, the issue is we wear that like a filter over every one of our experiences. Again, I use this example time and time again, right? Me in the dishes. Why? Because I'm not worthy of being considered in this moment. So we become like a self-confirming machine because this is how we know ourselves. Even if it's not helpful narratives that we've created and repeated over time, they've become familiar. So we have way too much to take in in terms of stimulation in any given moment.

There's too much happening. There's too many possibilities. We love to be sure. So we'll put those blinders on, right? Use those same narratives. Oh, this is happening or not happening again. Why? Because of that same core belief. Because I'm not worthy. I'm not worthy. I'm not being considered or whatever it is. We filter out like I did earlier. Any other display of possible love, consideration, care, and affection, right? Because I want to confirm that life is as I predicted to be. This is happening or not happening because of how I know myself to be.

And then literally become locked and loaded, continuing to strengthen these beliefs until we empower ourselves, which simply means notice the stories. Anyone listening, notice what narrative path your mind goes down. What are you assuming to be true about yourself and feeling to be true? I don't want to override that feeling. And can you create space for more possibilities? Can you expand, right, those blinders and give a new narrative? And more importantly, can you make sure that you're creating opportunities for you to feel

worthy by ensuring that your needs are met, by shifting and changing the way you're showing up for yourself or, again, the boundaries that you're using or not using in your relationships so then you can unlearn because belief isn't just affirmations are incredibly important. I use them a lot. thinking a new thought, though, that has to be followed again by a new action. Living in belief before you believe it to be true, and this is why I think a lot of a struggle, I can affirm I'm worthy until I'm blue in the face, and then go act in self-betrayal, do things that don't meet my needs, continue to service others at the expense of myself.

So I affirmed I'm worthy, yet my actions, right, are affirming my unworthiness. So we really have to work on both levels, use those affirmations absolutely, and then make the choices that are living as if you already, are worthy. Don't expect that belief to change over time, though in time. You will begin to then integrate, okay, well, I've lived in action of worthiness. Now I am starting to actually feel worthy of these choices. It doesn't happen overnight, of course, though. We can learn and relay some new neural networks, and over time begin to actually believe them and feel differently. That really hits some people in the feels on that one, like where, I never really heard

where that comes from. Obviously, it makes sense, you know, like somewhere along the lines. Your knees were meant, you've put it on yourself. And then to keep making the same decision, even if it feels bad because you feel comfort in repeating that pattern, that you feel comfortable being in this feeling is really interesting to me. And sometimes it's just really hard to make a different decision because it's unfamiliar. It's unfamiliar. It's uncomfortable when it really comes down to it.

But I know I have continued to teach myself how to deal with discomfort, how to not just eject when something like I was sharing is hard, as difficult as bringing up emotions that I'm not equipped to deal with yet because I'm still learning because I never learned right in childhood. All of these ways that I coped from distracting myself with my achievements to when I got exhausted from doing that to just attaching in what I call my first book, how to do the work, my spaceship. I just lived completely dissociated and disconnected, which is why again bring this full circle. Not surprising that I wasn't feeling connected in my relationships because I was a million miles away on a spaceship with completely unmet needs that I was continuing to hold people responsible,

just put the dishes on the table or day on the table. And really, it wasn't about that at all. Yeah. Well, I feel like we covered most of the things that we wanted to. Yeah, I mean, there's so much in this book that are such great takeaways and just concepts that you can really write down and dive into. And you also have a workbook also. But anything else? Do you feel like we touch on? No, I really, really appreciate this conversation and speak to the point, as I did in the first book, each and every chapter has, right, this bridge of action. It's not just talking. Of course, I share a lot of my own journey. I share a lot of other. other journeys to illustrate. I really try to give kind of an array so that, you know, if you don't see yourself in my own journey, kind of back where we were talking about earlier, feeling a bit of relief from the shame of, oh my gosh, other people are struggling or repeating the same patterns. Though I do really emphasize and always want to provide those actionable tools. And the book goes really deep diving into the nervous system, into understanding your own

nervous system states and the making sure talks a lot about needs. And for many of us, we heard the concept. We don't actually know what that means for us and really given readers the tools to not only understand themselves because yes, it is a relationship book and as I believe the first relationship is ourselves, making sure that we are that authentic human

when we are trying to give and connect and give support to another individual, although also it gives a lot of tools to help understand. And this isn't just for, in my opinion, romantic partners. This can be we are in relationship with, whether it's the friend, our family is a big one that's coming up. For a lot of us, a big point of challenge because that's where those habits were created.

So this book can really, I think, help inform us with new tools to change the dynamic in all different types of relationships we find ourselves in. Wow. Well, the book is out, how to be the love you seek. Family time, around the holiday. I'm somebody really going to need this. My publisher was pretty thrilled in the timing of the publication date for that.

And gift it to somebody. Give it to your parents, yeah. You're like, maybe you should be the love I see. Nicole, we're so happy to have you on the show. You've requested you on the show for years, so we're really excited to finally be able to make this happen. People can get your book everywhere that you buy books. Everywhere that you buy books. I have a website, How to Be Love You Seek.com.

So I have some book retailers highlighted on there, though you pretty much everyone you buy books. I know it'll be in Audible as well and Kindle. So anyway, you consume books as well. Okay. And how else can people find your Instagram, podcast? Oh, at this place, I think we have a social media presence across all the different platforms. So however it is that you prefer to consume your social media content. The handle is always some version of the holistic psychologist.

Oh, yes, it all began on the Instagram account, the dot holistic. I have a website, the holistic psychologist.com. You can check out all new offerings on there as well. Okay. And your Instagram's beautiful. We were hyping it earlier. I just love the whole vibes, the aesthetic overall. And the content, of course.

I'm not taking it personally. Yeah. He wants me to look aesthetically pleasing. I screenshot our Instagram this morning. It said it to our social girl. I was like, it looks beautiful. Yeah. And of course, you guys know where to follow us on Instagram, which is Girls Gotta Eat Podcast.

I am Ash Hess. Rain is Raina.green.greensorg. Girls got to eat.com for all of our tour tickets and everything about the podcast. And of course, our other company, Vibesonly.com. You can shop at Vivesonly.com and follow Vives Only on Instagram. Subscribe on YouTube. Share this episode with a friend. Buy the book. Give it to a family member for Christmas. We'll see you next week. Have a good week, guys. Go birds.