Girls Gotta Eat - How to Manage, Invest, and Make More Money with Tori Dunlap

Episode Date: April 14, 2025

If you consume one piece of content about money, let it be this episode! Money expert, financial educator, and founder of Her First $100K Tori Dunlap joins us to discuss a wealth of topics – how women are socialized about money vs. men, how our first money memories mold us, the Ostrich Effect that is detrimental to your financial success, and then all the action items. Tori walks us through the first and most important step in managing your money, debt payoff, how to actually budget and not hate it, the best credit cards to have, how to start investing and the one mistake never to make, negotiating a higher salary, and how to navigate the current $hitshow state of the world. We also share what our audience has spent money on that has changed their lives. Before Tori joins us, we talk about Rayna's wild night in Vegas, Ashley's undying love for a specific city, and debate the difference between "staying up" and "staying out." Enjoy! Follow Tori on Instagram @herfirst100k, listen to her podcast Financial Feminist, read her book Financial Feminist, and check out her website for more. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for more. Thank you to our partners this week: Pretty Litter: Get 20% off your first order and a free cat toy at https://prettylitter.com/gge. Quince: Get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order at https://quince.com/GGE. Addyi: Learn more at https://addyi.com. Helix: Get 20% off sitewide at https://helixsleep.com/gge. Storyworth: Get $10 off your first purchase at https://storyworth.com/gge. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is why we have to talk about money. This is why we have to become educated any day, but especially right now. This podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi, guys. Hi, guys. I'm back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Welcome back. Hot episode today.

I'm back. I'm back. We're back. We're back. I am so excited for this guest today on this episode. And you guys have requested her so much. We have a finance episode with Tori Dunlap and she is phenomenal. Yes.

But anyway, you're back. I'm back and you're back. You kicked off your tour in Chicago. We took separate vacations. Sort of work trips. It's weird. I've never been so excited for something I wasn't a part of your tour. I just,

I was like so excited to like send you flowers and just like, it was weird to like not be there for it. But I did other stuff. Well, I've never had so much FOMO of your trip. It was good. Yeah, I just loved it.

I just, you went to Mexico City with two girlfriends and like, I love them. But it really was like white lotus vibes of the three. you. I don't know why I just pictured it. Like I was like, you're a Jacqueline. You know, no shit. Someone has to be, you know, it was just like you were Jacqueline. Emily was Kate and Melanie would be Lori. That's what you guys had landed on too. Well, she had made that with our head. She was like quiet for a while. And then she like sent us that photo. And I was like,

oh, you gave me Jacqueline. That's so nice. Yeah. You got to be the Jacqueline. The slut. I'm going to, I've been really slutty lately. All right. Well, let's just think our partners. We're going to like unpack all of it. Thank you to Quince. Get free shipping and 365 day returns on your next order at quince.com slash GGE. And Helix get 20% off sitewide at helix sleep.com slash gge.

And thank you to Addy. Learn more at adi.com. And storyworth. Get $10 off your first purchase at storyworth.com slash gge. And thank you to Pretty Litter. Get 20% off your first order and a free cat toy at pretty litter.com

slash GGE. I did not see toy. first and I was like not a free cat. They're just giving them away. I just didn't read toy. Like I just was like, Tessa, what happened here? They're like, we just want you to have the litter so bad. Even if you don't have a cat, we'll give you a cat.

We'll give you a reason to get this litter. I mean, that is actually an amazing like long-term marketing strategy. It's like you give somebody a cat once, they buy litter for life. Well, you could partner with like a rescue and be like, we're going to waive adoption fees if you buy a cat. and then you get your first bag of litter free. We should, let's say, pretty litter.

If you could have that idea, but like you should pay us for it. I'm glad they're back. Well, congrats on starting your tour. It's like a huge accomplishment. I'm sad I couldn't be there, but it looked really amazing.

As you guys listen to this, you will have just been in Phoenix. So thank you guys for coming out in Phoenix. But yeah, I kicked it off in Chicago, three shows at the Den Theater. I mean, it was incredible. It was just, it couldn't have been better, no notes.

I mean, every show was amazing. Those are the best audiences. I mean, oh, I was a little little, noises. He's sleeping? Yeah, he's dreaming. I love him so much. It was wonderful. Oscar Aden, a friend of mine came, opened all three shows, fucking crushed it. I mean, of course, he's super funny. And then my fiance came and like this thing happened where I wasn't planning to bring him up on stage or whatever, but I had a videographer come who was very attractive. The girlies were going

crazy for him. He wore this insane like steady cam. thing. He looked like the Terminator. He was like, do you want me to wear the helmet? I'm looking my lips spontaneously. What is it wrong with me? I know. And Rayna, I thought he, like, he was really great. His name is James Webb, if you guys want to look about it. And I just thought he was like pretty young. He was like 39. I'm like, oh no. I was like, thank God Raina is not here. He would not be safe. And so he goes, do you want to wear the helmet? I go, what helmet? He has this whole setup. He shoots tons of specials. He shot Samarrell special. He lives in New York, but he's like a Chicago guy. So he's like, I figured out some way to get this footage with

the helmet. I'm like, you can't wear the helmet. You can't be like, he's the security. No, he was like daft bomb squad. Like it looked insane. Yes. It was like a bomb squad. So anyway, he was like, I want to get a clean shot of you walking out. Like, bottom line, he was like, let's do your walkout again at the end. If you think the audience will be down to do it. I'm like, they'll love it. You know, like mock it. Yeah, like redo the opening. And with you guys, we weren't shooting a special or anything. But like, if you ever go to a shoot a special, you'll kind of see behind the curtain the way that they do things. We've seen Nikki shoot. And they're like, they'll

or do pickups. I saw Ricky Veles shoot a special. We saw Aziz shoot a special, whatever. And you get to kind of see like how the sausage is made or whatever. And so at the end of the show, I kind of realized that Oscar had left. He had to do another show. Like he went and performed the laugh factory. So I had nobody like, bring me up. And then I'm like, I'll figure it out at the end. Like I'll figure it out. They'll bring me up from the sound booth or James will come up here and do it. And then everyone started yelling for Sparkle Eyes to do it. They knew he was in the audience. And so he comes up on stage. people like lose their mind and he had to like bring me out. Is that his nightmare?

Alone on the stage? Alone on the stage. And then, oh, get this. I tried to get him to propose to you on a stage. He was like, have you met me? Right, because he comes on stage when we were on the tour, but we're on stage with him, whatever, he's not alone. So I just just leave him on stage.

And then I like, I'm like, you got this, babe, you got this. And then James goes, I need three minutes. We were like, what are we going to do for three minutes? So we had to like riff. And then like someone's like, too of you just on stage. Yes. And I'm like, do you have so many questions? And someone's like, what was the best part of your day?

I was like, probably the, I don't know, the sex or the protest or I don't know, this show. This is hysterical. I know. So we had this, I feel like it was a really fun moment for the audience. Totally. It was cute. And I don't even know if we got a good shot. He brought me out.

He didn't end with saying my name. He was like, make some noise for Ashley. Hustle time from girls got to eat like something. I'm like, you also should call me your fiance. they would have gone crazy for that. Like, whatever. Ashley, that is so funny. Are you thinking about incorporating it more?

No. No. Like, Nate Bargazzi, you know, he opens this special. Like, please make some noise for my daddy, Nate Bargazzi. I know. Yeah. He should do that from backstage.

That's my job. That's your job. But then he was like, I'm so sad to miss this weekend, which will have just happened with Raina and Brittany. And he was like, I wonder if I can be like, no, no, no, you're not coming. It's a girl's weekend. You can't come to this one.

But we just had the best weekend. I mean, I have never lived in Chicago. I think it's the best city in America. I mean, aside from the weather, I just think it has everything. This is like a thing people, I feel like, are saying. What was your hot tip that Chicago is a place you should visit? But just walking around, it's like, it is, again, not a hot take. I just think so many things about it make it perfect besides the cold.

You love hot takes about Chicago. I love Chicago. I just, and this was my best Chicago food weekend. I know it's a great. food city. I have personally had some misses. Well, you picked, well, I told you, you picked one of the best Italian restaurants in the country, Monteverde. And Pequod's, which is my favorite deep dish. I thought I was a Lou Malnadi's girl in Pequods. And then went to this other place called Maxwell's trading. We got some Chicago dogs. But I've went to places before that should have been good and weren't.

Like, I've just randomly had some, some misses. And I was like, I don't even feel comfortable talking about this because everyone's like, Chicago is the best food city. And I'm like, not in my experience. So this past weekend I was like determined to really make it like 10 out of 10. And we just had the best time. I love Chicago. Always have stayed loving it. I've always loved it since the first time I went. But it's just such a special city.

Yeah, it's the best. Everyone's just so nice. It's like it's so clean. You have the water. You have these parks. Like downtown is great. You just, it's no no. I love when you talk about Chicago for a couple years.

I mean, this isn't a new for me. But being there, I'm like, God, man. I said, I wish I would have lived there in my 20s. This is like no shade to Atlanta. And there wouldn't have been any reason for me to go there. I knew no one from my college that lived there. But if I could go back and like it could have worked out and I would have the same life I had today, I think that would have been such a fun place to live. Like a young person.

Yeah. I think great post college is probably better than New York in L.A. You don't need as much money as you need in New York. And L.A. can be a little tough for young girls especially. So the tour is kicked off. It was incredible. You guys come see me in Florida. Florida's up next.

Florida and then Salt Lake. So Miami, Tampa, Salt Lake City, and then the rest of the tour, of course, but those are the next up next. I really, I can't wait to be in Florida. I'm excited for you. Have you been in Miami? You've been in Miami this year? February. Yeah, we usually would go in February. February, Miami is where I met that guy who sent me the not my fault per se text. I can't wait. I just, we've historically always gone to Miami every February in our whole friendship. Always since the beginning of our friendship. Miami wine and food and then we do shows. And yeah. Okay. So, tell me about your trip. So I went to Mexico City, which I couldn't stop saying that's like a broken record. Of all places I have ever gone, this is the most racks I have ever gotten from friends, from our listeners. I mean, hundreds of people sending me their maps. And I think it's just because it's such a big food destination and it's still close to the U.S. obviously. It's not like unattainable. And it's just, it has the highest concentration of Michelin Star Restaurates. It's fantastic. So we just have great time. I mean, it's just that's a best place. We had a great time.

The weather was phenomenal. We stayed in Condessa, which is a very popular area to stay in. We got a boutique hotel. It was called the Amsterdam Hotel. If you guys want to look it up, it was fantastic. And everything we did was great. We all got a little sick at the end of the trip. That's part for the course.

And I was determined to, like, kick the sickness because I maybe delusionally planned to go straight from Mexico City to Vegas. So I went to, like, New York City for a week, came home for two days. I know. I didn't even realize that too, like that we were in New York. I mean, I was there for like a whole like week, week, came back, turned it right around. You left even sooner than me. Yeah. I got back Sunday night. I left Tuesday night. I went to Mexico City, got super food poisoning sick. Friday. I was determined to kick it. I woke up the next morning. I flew straight to Vegas. We did like a one night in Vegas for our friend's birthday. You were, of course, invited, but you had your shows. And it ended up just being four of us, friends of ours that are a couple and then this guy. And we just, we just. I had one of the best nights I've ever had in my life. We had drinks to catch. We saw Aziz Ansari. Our friend Ricky Veles opened for him.

Then we went to Carbone for dinner. We shut down Carbone. We went to see the chain smokers. We were out all night. Stop. I was out till 7 in the morning. Food poisoning at all. You were in.

You were in. So I'm glad that you brought that up. Don't say you were out. Like you were doing lines at the club at 6 a.m. You were. This is the perfect intro to what I wanted to tell you. Okay. So I'm talking.

talking to my brother and sister-in-law this morning. And my brother passed the phone to my sister-in-law. And I was like, I was out until seven. You guys have listened to the show ever. That's not me. Like, my girlfriend who I was with is a new mother. And she was like, I'm not staying out past two. I'm going to bed.

I got to go home and take care of my kid tomorrow. Like parenting hung over. I was like, I don't know how you guys were doing it. No, I got home I ordered four bagels, just different varieties of bagels. I was fucked up. So no one who knows me thinks that that's the case that I was. ever stay out that late. Of course it's not. So one time you did and it's when that guy ate your butt and you left me that voice note at 7 a.m. And I asked you if you want to go to the Eagles game

the next day. And you were like, I've been up all night getting my butt eating. I sent you that same voice note Sunday morning. I was like, I don't know. So my sister and last like, same voice. My sister's was like, seven a.m. were you on drugs? And I was like, no. And she goes, how did you say out that late? And I was like, a guy, obviously. And she was like, so you weren't out. And I was like, well, I was up. And she was like, that's not the same thing. You can't tell people you were out till seven.

And I was like, I was out of my room until seven. And she was like, not the same thing. You can't say that. So I get off the phone with her and she sends me a text message. It doesn't count as partying until 7 a.m. She just spontaneously sends me one. I'm like, she says it doesn't. She's going to die on this hill.

Yeah. It does not count. I said, it was a party, but I just had. had one guest. And she said it wasn't, it doesn't count. She said, you were out until three, partying needs more than two people. This is so funny. She's like, I'm going to pick this battle, actually, with my sister-in-law. She's like, I'm a new mom and I need to win. And I said, but I've already really told a lot of people it was seven. I'm with her. Is she still going? Okay. She said, I'm proud of you partied until three and then you had some fun.

And then she blocks you. She's like, and then she blocks you. She's like, I will get the final word. So she does. That conversation ends. 10 minutes later, I'm walking over to the studio today. My brother texts me separately. Okay. Two people enjoying each other's company is not a party. Three people is a party. He gets in the mix. It is categorically different. This extends to sex as well. Two people together run the mill. Three people out of the ordinary, also a party. I said, I hate you both. He said, hate me as much as you want, but you partied until three. The two of them are just I think it was very brave to admit to my brother and my sister-in-law that I hooked up with somebody all night.

You are wrong. And they're calling you out for showing off, which is so embarrassing. Do you remember when you were little and your parents would be like, stop showing off? And you would be like, oh. I know. It's a dagger to the heart. When you get called out for showing off. Because you think you're just like entertaining everybody.

Look at me and look what I can do. Well, even when you said out till seven to me, I was like, huh. Because all you, up till 7, it still is bad bitch behavior. I was up watching the sunrise. Yeah, I stayed up till 7. Is accurate. I was naked for the last 4. Throw that in.

People who are out till 7 aren't naked. Right. They're out. I mean, if you want to get semantical about it, if I'm naked, I'm out. No, you're in. You're literally in. You're thinking, now I'm thinking there was a time when I was out. I was naked and that was

my a. And I like, fuck this dude. And we were hooked up in the ocean and we got out of the ocean at 6 a.m. People were on the beach. I was butt naked.

You were out. Yeah. You were tidily out. I need to hear the conversation when they got off the phone. They were like, we'll get her. That's double teamer.

It's rare that they separately text me like this about the same conversation. Like they're like, we need to just double down on separate. text threats. I did send you like a half a live text message. You were like, I have so much tea from last night.

I was like, oh, buckle up. Yeah, I think, yeah, I would think I was like, I have a lot to tell you, but couldn't have compared to what you had to tell me. You thought I was joking. Listen, at this point, it doesn't even matter if she was up or out. She had a night at a morning. Yeah, I did. It was really, what I love Vegas so much.

I really look back on these Vegas weekends and they're just. so perfect. Like, even when we were there last year with our girlfriends about a year ago, the Lovers and Friends Festival, like I canceled, we still had a great weekend despite it. But our show weekend was truly one of the best weekends in my life. Core memory. When you really plan it perfectly, and again, like one night is fine, but like two is the max, obviously. And you really just do like an amazing dinner at like a swanky place, some sort of show, some sort of club experience. Like, it's, nothing beats it. I mean, I'm going for one of my bachelorets. And, That's how I really want to do it.

Like, I'm going to do a house off the strip. Like, I just want all the girls in the house, which I love a hotel in Vegas because they're the biggest best rooms. But I think I still want to stay in like a house with the pool and stuff. So I really like being all together. And when we went to Mexico City, we were going to get separate rooms. We ended up renting like an apartment at this particular hotel. So in the morning you're not like, what time were we meeting for coffee? Like I really enjoyed that we all stayed in the same apartment.

100%. Yeah. And you can get baller houses, like 10 minutes off the strip, get like a bus or something to us in. And then, yeah, I want to do two nights. I want to go do the Chippendales, go do like a fancy dinner, like do the things and then come home. I think people are surprised at like Vegas so much because I just, it's like my whole personality. Like I'm not fun. But like, and our other friend that we went with, he was like, I'm surprised you like this so much. And I was like, oh, you'll see. But you just. Vegas Raina. You only do it every once in a while. Like it's, we do this a couple times a year.

Twice year. Yeah. Yeah. It's not attractive to do it more than often than that. Listen, that's your life. You live your truth. But man, it was fun. What a weekend. Good times. Great times all around. Yeah.

Okay, so we have this episode today with Tori Dunlap. And we did just want to address, like, we are talking about investing in finance and the stock market. And, like, I mean, so much has gone down even since we recorded with her. And things are so out of control. I mean, what we are seeing is so unprecedented. These are truly insane financial times. and people have lost so much money. And again, the stock market ebbs and flows.

I'm not an expert. Tori is. And people are really freaking out. And we just, all I want to do is address it. Like, at least give that disclaimer up top that when you're listening to it, it was kind of prior to these tariffs and things really totally shitting the bed, even though a lot of people felt like this was looming and a recession was looming and it still is.

So this doesn't negate anything she says. And the advice and the content is really evergreen. But we just wanted to throw that out there. Yeah, I mean, I still think the advice plays, and I talk to my brother, works in finance a lot this morning about it, and, you know, the stock market tanking and people giving up their gains. I mean, my dad said to me, I've lost more money in two days than I've made in three years. I mean, it's just, it like shattered my heart. Older people, it makes me, like, I mean, I have no words. Yeah, and I.

People's 401Ks and all these things. And my brother said to me, you know, you and Ashley, of course, will keep investing for long periods of time. Those stocks will go back up. You'll be okay. I mean, it's almost a good time to buy stocks. Tori will talk about this also. So it's at a discount right now. People are talking, Mark Cuban, people are talking about this.

Yeah, but I think a lot of people's parents are probably having these type of conversations with them right now where you've given up all the gains that you've made in these years. And so, of course, I just said to my dad, you know, we'll get through this. It's fine. You know, you have us and everything will be fine. Of course, it will be for us. But I just, you know, I hope that's the case for so many. Yeah.

I don't like look at those numbers a lot. I think my mindset is like this money went in to wherever it is for 10 years. you know, in my head. So that's just kind of how I view it. But I'm certainly worried about my money all the time. And that comes up on this episode as well. But anyway, I was like watching it through last night and was just like, it's kind of funny. We're doing like stock market stuff. And it's like, I want to dress the elephant in the room. Totally. Okay. Well, we are going to get into it with her. You guys are going to love it. But I am just going to tell you about Storyworth. You guys know how much we love Storyworth. I mean, this is something that we have in our lives and our family's lives. And as we

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We are very excited to welcome our guest today. She is a money expert and the founder of her first 100K, which is a financial education company aimed at Young. women. She is the host of the number one money podcast for women in the world, financial feminist, and is a New York Times bestselling author of the book, Financial Feminist, Overcome the Patriarchies Bullshit to Master Your Money and Build a Life you love. Please welcome to the show, Tori Dunlap. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, yeah, yay. Tori, our audience really requested you.

That's so nice. There is, the Venn diagram, I think, between your audience and my audience looks more like two circles on top of each other than I think a true Venniagram. It just makes me so happy. We always feel so proud of our audience, you know, and just them making money, wanting to make more of it, wanting to invest. Well, it's the taboo, right? Well, actually more likely to talk about sex than we are about money. Money is the most taboo topic. So it makes sense. Okay, if we're talking about a lot of taboo things, the audience feels very similar. Yes. And we've done quite a few episodes about money, which are fantastic. We have to meet, say tea on the show. But we talked a lot about like

relationships and money, but our audience really highly just requested, like I want to learn how to invest my money, get out of debt, save, like their own shit. which I loved to say. Yeah. It's so funny. I don't care about this relationship. We're down with that. Well, you've got to manage your own money before you get in a relationship, hopefully.

You're going to put your mask on before you have all there's. Well, tell us a little bit about you. I mean, again, the first chapter of the book is kind of your brief story of, you know, quitting your job. But just in general. So I grew up with a great financial education for my parents. And I thought that was normal because that was my lived experience. As I was like, okay, everybody knows not to overspend on credit cards. Everybody knows how to save money.

And of course, when I got to college and beyond, I was like, oh, no, that was a privilege. And with that privilege comes responsibility. So I majored in theater and communications in college. Okay. The plan was to be a marketing girl boss stomping the streets of Seattle with my coffee cup and my briefcase and my pencil skirt. And that's how I knew it was a lie is I've never worn a pencil skirt in my goddamn

life. I could not really more. I joke that I thought adulthood was a pencil skirt. And we were going to TGI Fridays for happy hour after. Oh, absolutely. With the amount of like cosmopolitan articles that were like the makeup from day to night. Day to night? Have you ever seen that memes that she said like not one time in my life?

Literally not one. I ever needed an outfit to go from day to night. Not one. So that was what I thought my 20s were going to be. And then I got into. Yeah. Totally. I got into a extremely sexist, extremely misogynistic workplace.

And I graduated college five months before Trump was elected the first time. And so I'm coming into adulthood, but really into womanhood in a very different country than I think a lot of us expected. Yeah. And I start asking myself questions like, okay, how can I make a difference, cheesy as that sounds. Like, what can I do? And all of my friends started coming to me to ask me financial advice. And I also started realizing in my life that when I had money, I had choices. When I had money, I had the ability to get out of that toxic workplace I didn't want to be in

anymore. When I had money, I had the ability to leave a relationship or donate to causes I believed in or travel or go to therapy. Every option opened up to me. And that was the feeling I wanted for every single woman on the planet. So I started her first under K on the side of my 9 to 5 in marketing, built it slowly over time, took it full time in 2019 after going on Good Morning America. And since then, we've had 5 million women learn how to save money, pay off debt, start investing. This is what I believe I was put on this earth to do is for women's financial rights. This is my favorite fucking thing to do. And the best part is that when women, and at this point we get like a message every five minutes of like,

I paid off my student loans, right, I had my first thousand dollars and I never thought I'd have this much money in my bank account. Or I was able to leave my abusive spouse because I have money. money now, there's always a second part of that sentence, which is, and I show up differently in every aspect of my life. And like, this is why we have to talk about money. This is why we have to become educated any day, but especially right now, because a financial education is your best form of protest. I just love that. It's so true. No, money doesn't buy happiness. It does, though. Okay. I just used to have so much anxiety around money when I was like truly living paycheck to paycheck, not even, barely getting by and debt and all those things. And like at the end of every,

like, trip or that I couldn't afford, I had this overwhelming anxiety. I wouldn't check my bank account. I would withdraw money and like not look at the balance. Like once I started to make money, yes, I was happier because I had freedom to do things and fix things. And of course you want every woman to feel that feeling. Yeah. Yeah. I love your story and I have a very similar story. I was able to leave a job that I was very unhappy with at a company that's based in Seattle where you're based. I wonder which one it could be. Because I had a support system for myself, but I do think about just a lot of women

that are in situations with a partner that they can't leave. And how much that breaks my heart and how long it takes to extract yourself from that without money. 99% of domestically violent situations have some sort of financial abuse. And like, we're going right in really quick. Sorry everybody.

But like that is something that unfortunately doesn't get discussed of money is a source of control. If you don't have money, if you don't have access to, your own money. If he's taking out credit cards in your name, if there's so much shit that starts happening that, again, keeps you stuck. And the vast majority of, again, we're assuming, you know, women dating men, but the vast majority of women who want to relieve relationships can't because it's like, even if it's a relationship that is not violent or not abusive, but you just

don't want to be in anymore, it's like, oh, I'm in this expensive city and I'm splitting rent in half. So now I'm, if I leave, I have to go out on my own and pay for a one-bedroom apartment entirely for me, right? It's like $1,400 split in half. Now I have to pay all the $14. That's a lot of money. And so again, I never want money to be the reason you can't do something. I want it to be the reason you can. When I was

23 years old, I was living with my first boyfriend in New York and I caught him cheating on me. We were splitting the rent. He paid more than half. And I caught him cheating on me and I didn't confront him for a whole week because I was like, I really had to wrestle with like what does this mean for my ability to pay my rent if I say something about

this? And I don't want women to be those positions. Totally. Okay. Where do we even start? So we start with, I want to talk about how people's attitudes and financial personalities even come about. Because we spend a lot of time in the book just saying like before we talk about how to take actionable steps, where does this even come from how we socialized around money? And then we'll talk about how like women and men differ. Yeah. So everybody thinks that personal finance is about math. Like how good you are at math. So you'll talk with women and women will go, well, I'm terrible at numbers or I'm terrible at math. And so therefore I'm not good with money. I majored in theater, guys. Like I'm not good.

good at math either. It's not about math. It's about psychology. And that's why I spend the first chapter, which is the longest chapter, the biggest research chapter about the emotions and the psychology of money because I can't teach you how to get a game plan together until you understand your own financial triggers. So the vast majority of your money habits are actually cemented by age seven, according to statistics. So by second grade, how you view money, how you view people with money, how you manage your own money in the future, is already deemed based on the relationship that your parents are people who you were growing up around manage money, unless you work to change it.

So the practice I have in my book that I would love to do with both of you is like, what is your first money memory? What is the first time you remember thinking about money? I feel like I remember, this doesn't really have to do with my family. You know, we had what we needed and things like that. But I just remember like knowing who like the rich girl in class was. Yeah. And like wanting to like be her friend and go to her house.

Like she had the cool clothes or she had the stuff. Yeah, I mean, her family owned car dealerships, you know, like I grew up in just a small town. Yeah. So that was like the rich person in town was obviously that. And I just remember having her on a pedestal because we, I knew she had money. Yeah. And like at age six. And like how I want to be in on that.

I want to go to her house. You know, that was kind of how I do think I placed value on people thinking in that way. Yeah. But again, that's because I wanted to make money. Yeah, totally. When I was, I want to be like a rich person. Yeah. I mean, for me it was, because I was a theater nerd, I really wanted to go see the local production of Annie, the musical that was happening. And my parents were like, okay, if you want a ticket, you got to save up. And I had no income source when I was like four or five. But it was like, okay, lemonade stands, picking up change on the sidewalk. And I saved it all in an altoids tin. And I learned, okay, if you want something you have to save for it, you can go into debt. And so you can kind of start to interpret and feel free to share yours as well. You can kind of start to interpret like what happens or like what sort of beliefs you have, depending.

on, again, how you grew up around money or what that says. I'll get a chair one more. And then I want to hear you. I remember being, like, young. I might have been second grade. It might have been third, fourth. It was elementary. Yeah.

And my grandparents had, like, a farm. There's Christmas trees on it. And my dad was like, go sell Christmas trees to your teachers. And I mean, I sold Girl Scout cookies and different things. Yeah. He was like, go see if some of these teachers want some trees for Christmas. And I was like, all right. And I think I was selling him for like 20 bucks.

I mean, what? It was like, early 90s. And just like, raking it in. Everyone, like, bought one. And I was. I was like the fact that he sent me to just like hustle the teachers. And like, but then I think where it was lacking. This is what it is to be an entrepreneur.

And I had that like spirit too. Even like school, we did like a little mini society thing. I would crush it. But I think the thing I didn't really learn is then what to do with it. Yeah, sure. And we have these stories of like making a bunch of money in the summer and going and like going to the mall and blowing it all.

And like no one told us what we were supposed to do with it. Right. Right. Well, I have two also. So from a very young age, I'm putting my parents totally on blast. My parents divorced when I was four and, you know, my dad would sort of like skimp out on child support payments.

And I heard about it. I heard about it a lot. That's a hard position to be in for you. And, you know, all evidence pointed to the fact that we really were fine. We lived in a nice house. We had nice cars. I went to a private school. I went to summer camp.

Like, all evidence pointed to that we were fine, but I was constantly hearing, like, your father owes us money. Your father's putting us in a bad financial position. And I grew up really panicked around money. And, you know, my mom was a wonderful parent. I just think she was stressed out and it would come out sometimes, you know? And my father emotionally was there, but I remember just a lot of panic around like, we're going to lose everything.

Right. Even though all evidence pointed to the fact that like we were pretty much going to be fine. Yeah. And then to Ashley's point of making a bunch of money not knowing to do with it, like I always worked. I worked from the time I was 14 every single weekend. I worked at a diner and made like $100 a day and I would blow it every single weekend. But I guess my like, my parents would be like, she goes to the mall and she blows everything on T-shirts. but like there was no education after that.

There was a lot of like, how do we get or to not? There was a lot of shame around how I spent the money and being like negged about it, but there wasn't like, but here's a thing you could do with it instead. Yeah. And I'm like, did they? They might have. And I might have been like, fuck you. I'm going to the mall.

Like I don't think, I can't really remember. But like I do wish it would have been a sit down like you've made some money, even if it was the Christmas true money or the working at Lone Star Steakhouse money and like here's what to do with it. I just didn't. I don't really remember that. education. I didn't get it other than like just stop spending so much. That way education. Put it in a bank account. They were like you're supposed to save it. I'm like, how? Right. What do you mean? But what does

that mean? If women get any advice, it's just save your money. But then you're like for what? Under the mattress? How? It's cash. Exactly. So we can talk about that. But yeah, for anybody at home, you can do the money memory exercise and it's typically very revealing. We have a journaling prompt in the book about it too. But here's the thing is it's like unless you were taught about money, most of us weren't. Then you grow up thinking, I should just know how to money. Like I should just know this.

Why don't I know this? And then it becomes a personal failing thing. Oh, I'm not good with money because I spend too much and then you beat yourself up about it. Money is a learned skill. Praying an instrument, learning a new language,

money's the same thing, right? We don't like come out of the womb speaking fluent French and playing the tuba, yet we somehow believe, like, I should know how to do this. And in actuality, your financial education is just,

to learn skill and it's going to be something you're bad at for a while because statistically no one taught you or the education you got was very surface level it was like don't spend money on things i was just like negged a lot at home rayna just loves to buy t-shirts right there's always the mall buying t-shirts i mean the amount of times i heard that fucking sentence rather than like isn't it amazing rana wants to go to work and make money like let's teach her how to do anything else i was like i'm in my best life it doesn't matter whether you're 14 or 34 like that narrative is so pervasive, which is women aren't rich because they spend frivolously. And I'm putting frivolous in quotes. Yeah. The frivolous spending is the stuff that is stereotypically feminine. That's the

only stuff that gets labeled frivolous. So, lattes, manicures, blow it's at the salon. It's not NFL season tickets. It's not golf clubs. It's not video games. Totally. It's on that drone you had to buy or NFL Sunday ticket, which is a fortune. Exactly. And so men are taught really good things about money, which is like expand. Make more money, invest in the stock market, negotiate your salary, become a business owner, right? That is how you get rich.

That is true. But the advice for women is scrimp, save, become like the most miserable version of you, right? Stop spending money on things that bring you joy and just save it. So there's no advice that is actually helpful. And then you also just feel like a piece of shit at the end of the day. And like I'm so focused on how do we afford the things that we actually love because it's not enough to just save our money and live a miserable life right now.

How do we find the balance to do both in a society that keeps telling us that the reason we can't buy a house is because we buy a $5 a latte. An avocado toast. It's not so interesting though. No one ever said to me like if you want to afford these manicures and these haircuts, you spend all this stupid money on, like then go learn how to be a boss. I had to just like do that myself. Right.

Yep. I guess somewhere along the line, someone a TikTok told me, but like, it's changed a little bit now. Definitely. Definitely. Definitely. grew up, not when we grew up. Definitely.

And I will say, you know, to my mom's credit, I've said this many times in the show, my mom said to me my whole life, go out, make your own money, because God forbid you are in a position where you have to support yourself, alone you can. Right, right. And I think that no one is socially taught to talk about money. Like, it's a taboo for anybody of any gender. But for men, it's more normalized of like, oh, we'll talk about the bonuses we brought in when we're golfing.

We'll talk about, again, like the stock market. For women, it feels so overwhelming. it feels so jargon heavy that we either are so scared of it that we opt out or we're afraid that we're like too stupid to understand and like I need everybody to know you're not too stupid to understand like they make this confusing on purpose and it's also again it's a learned skill so like you're going to be bad at it for a while there's going to be training wheel moments and that's okay but I need you to take an active role and actually being better with your money. Raina does still spend too much on t-shirts I do but I'm not having kids so there you go

trade-offs. It's a trade-off. It's just very funny that, like, that is your one, like, vice thing that's been since you were, like, a kid. Yeah. It's too much on T-shirts. I do, but I'm just like, you know, all my, I have no debt and everything that I... You don't have to justify your T-shirts been to me. That's the other thing women do, though. I'm going to read you for felt a little bit. But that's the other thing women do is, again, we've been told to feel shame about our purchases. So then it's always like, but I got it on sale, right? Like, somebody compliments my outfit. I'm like, thank you so much. I got it on sale. Like, that's the first thing we say. Or, like, oh, I'm, I'm,

I'm going to wear it multiple times if it's something that feels like outlandish to us. We have to justify it. And it's like, men don't have to do that shit. Totally. Men don't have to justify their purchases. They get to spend money because they have hobbies. They get to spend money because it brings them joy. And I would love for women to get to a point where, yes, they're saving so they don't feel

guilty about spending later. But they're also just like, yeah, I bought this. And so what it is. So you talk a little bit in the beginning of the book about shame, which is that you don't know anything about money and then just creating this like ostrich effect. So can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, the ostrich effect is real. So when I ask most people about money, especially people who are just new to our community, the response is I don't know anything of what's going on because I'm too scared to look.

And this is what we call the ostrich effect where you bury your head in the sand, you act like your problems don't exist because it's a lot easier to just ignore them than it is to get honest about what's really going on. And this is so normal. This is so real because we feel, again, overwhelmed. We feel shame. Oh, we have too much debt or I don't have enough in savings. And so I'm just not going to look at it. it's like getting in a car and having no idea how much gas is in it. Like that's what we're doing is we're just like raw dogging life.

You're just like driving a car and you're just like, okay, maybe I can get to the grocery store. Maybe I can get to the state over, but I have no fucking idea. And what happens is that you end up breaking down on the side of the road at two in the morning. Right. You just overdraft at brunch. Exactly. That was my story. I'll know when I overdraft.

Totally. I'll know when they bring me back my card and tell you we can't run this. That I can't afford it. Yeah. Yeah, and like I want you going to the all-inclusive resort wherever you want to go. Like I want you going to the Erez tour, but I don't want it to be with a side of guilt. Like I want you to spend unabashedly on the things you love because you know you can afford them. Like I need you to have a gas gauge in your car.

I need you to know what's going on. And so we talk about budgeting in the book. And again, I can hear everybody like throwing up. They're like, I don't want a budget. I don't want to do it. It means restriction. It doesn't. Having a budget is the gas gauge of like, I know I can afford this.

And I also know that it's not going to come with a side of. guilt later because I've already saved. So like my first piece of like really actionable advice that anybody can do at home is set up an automatic transfer to your savings at least once a month. So it's like either when you get paid, it can be twice a month. If you get two paychecks, it can be, you know, $20 a month that that's all you can swing right now. But set up that automatic transfer from your checking account to your savings account because we're doing what's called like paying ourselves first, right? Just like we're another bill, we're setting up money for future us. And we've done the hard thing first so that we can,

then go out and spend on brunch or spend on whatever we want to spend it on because it's not going to come with that side of guilt later. We're doing both. We're spending the money on the things we love and we know we've taken care of our savings too. Anything I can automate and not think about it? Totally. I just, it hurts a little less. No, and I think we think like I get an extra gold star if I make this like hard. Like that means I've earned it. And no, like money is already hard enough. Like any tool at your disposal, automation's huge. Just like you set up automatic bill pay for, I don't know, your electric bill or your credit card statement, you can do this with your savings. You can be like, okay, every time I get paid, I'm setting aside 5% of my paycheck to savings.

Great. And that's just psychologically starts the two. You get to pat yourself in the back. I did the thing. And check the box. It's happening without you even having to think about it. Totally. So it's really nice, too, if you can set it up.

We talk about high yield savings accounts incessantly. I was just going to ask if we're going to talk about that. Absolutely. Yeah. So they're just like everyday savings accounts except they're going to offer you way more in interest. And the interest rate is decline. with everything going on, but it's still like 3% compared to like 0.3, which is the national average.

So if your money's just going to sit there, which is what we want, right? We want it to sit there in case of emergencies and the savings goals we have. It may as well be working harder for you. I mean, I think people have heard this term, most people, but if they haven't like high yield savings account, just anyone can have one. It's a savings account. It's just like a souped up savings account. It's just offering you a higher interest rate. And it's usually through online banks. The reason they're able to offer you that higher interest rate is because they don't have tellers. They don't have like a brick and mortar location. And the other thing is like if you have, for example, your paycheck going in, like I have my paycheck go to like a local bank in case I like need to take cash out or

whatever, but my high yield savings account is where my savings is at a different bank. So that helps a little bit too because if you're sending your savings to a place that's not with your checking account where your money's getting taken out, you can get that money if you need it, right? It's there if you need it. But it's not as easy to transfer the money. Totally. What would an example of an online bank you recommend? Yeah. So like, SoFi is the one we recommend. We have our tool in our website, Her First 100K.com. But there's also, you know, there's Ally Bank.

There's Amex has one. Like, there's a million places that have them. But that's the other nice thing is it's like another hoop to jump through to make sure that you're not at brunch and going, okay, it's fine. I'll just take a little money out of my emergency fund, right? It's like, it's a psychological barrier that feels high enough where it's going to check you every time. Totally.

Because like, I would just be like, we'll just all hit savings on the bank teller for Bank of America. Yeah. You can also name your savings account. That's the other thing I love. Don't understand. Yes. It can be, you know, instead of 24601, it can be like, you know, fuck off fund. Or it can be like Croatian vacation, 2026.

Yeah. All right. I like this. First step down. Okay, we're just going to take a quick break and then we'll jump right back into it with Tori. I'm telling you guys about Helix. I say all the time, I really credit, like, the way that I have aged to sleep in water. And I just, I sleep eight hours a night.

It's really important to me. And I think about it all the time when I travel. What is the mattress that I'm sleeping on? I truly cannot wait to stay. and my mattress when I get home. I have Helix in all of my bedrooms. I always have you, your entire family has it as well. I just, I really look forward to coming home.

I have the midnight locks. And mattresses are so important to the quality of your sleep. People are always asking to stay at my house so they can sleep in that bed. I know when I have guests in my guest room, they're just like, what is this? I'm like, first of all, you should know. Right. Don't come at me. What is this?

Tell me, you don't listen to the show. Or know me at all. But you go to the website, you take a quick quiz about how you, you sleep. So they'll ask like what are your problems in terms of night sweats, back pain, motion transfer. Do you sleep with somebody else? Are you slow low? Are you plus size? Are you back sleeper? And then they'll prescribe

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or call 844 pink pill. Addie. That is ADD-D-Y-I.com. Since we're just like on budgeting, people really want actionable steps. I do want to circle back to other financial challenges women have. But like, let's talk about budgeting. Yeah, okay.

So the thing about budgeting, again, is it gets a bad rep and we're, again, gas gauge in a car. I just want to make sure everybody knows it's the permission slip to spend unabashedly on the things you love while knowing that you don't have the side of guilt later. So I teach a budgeting method in the book

that I call the three bucket budget it because I hated every budgeting method that was out there. I didn't want to track every penny. I have Timothy Shalamey YouTube compilations to watch. Like, I have better things to do with my life. Do you watch his old, like, talent shows? Absolutely. Like when he sings, Nikki Minot.

It's little, run to drag. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Kiss on the cheek, turn it to the lip. Do you remember that? No, I love, he's in the book. Wait, we have the same kink. I'm obsessed.

Oh, you have to. So he's like the unofficial mascot of financial feminist. Like, I have a cardboard cut out of him that a band bought me in my office. Yeah. And you guys, please Google Timothy Shalveh, Roman's Revenge Talent Show. Also, his little Timmy Tim Stistics is classic.

What is that? Did you not know about this? No, I'm not his biggest day. What? Okay. Shalemi as a kid, it's so cute. Oh my God. So he was, now we're on a complete tangent, but it's fine.

He was tasked with doing a paper in his statistics class for Ms. Lawton. And instead, he did a video. And it's a half-produced video. He's pointing to things that have never been edited in. And it's a rap. It's the best thing you've ever seen. Statistics, statistics, statistics.

Miss La Ann, Miss Laugh and Miss Laugh and Miss La. Oh, he was a star from the time he was a kid. Look at me. It's Timmy T. About to hit him with the ZTST. And he's pointing to things that are not there. And it's so funny. He has a backwards hat that's from the golf channel.

It says golf on it. And then like he got all of his like classmate girls to like come and dance. It's so great. Stop. He's 16 years old. I'll show it to you after. He's so skinny. Oh, wow. just somehow skinnier than he is now.

Well, it's so funny because people like, how could Kylie be with like Travis Scott? Oh, we're going to derail this whole interview. I could talk, I could give a dissertation about why this works. He has more swag than Travis Scott. Oh, he dated Madonna's daughter in high school. Lord? Yes.

And everybody's out here being like, what has happened? I'm like, no, there's Timmy and then there's Timote. And Timote is a fuck boy. Like, let's be real. There's a bit, there's a rumor going around that he gave everybody at NYU Chlamydia. And I'm like, I volunteer. Like, it's treatable.

I would take chlamydia from Timothy Shalame. It's treatable. One pill, you're fine. He's like the kid on running point when he finds out he's like part of the family and he just gives everyone chlamydia. But yeah, he dated like Lily Rose Depp. Like he has a type. Oh. Oh, he has a type.

He's just, he's a peasant. Isaac Gonzalez. He did Isaac Gonzalez for a summer. Sorry, I'm complete. I could give you a whole, we could derail this whole interview right now and I could tell you why he and Kylie make perfect sense. We'll have her back for the snack. Please. We did have you back on.

I'm not. No. No. No. No. No. Oh. Okay.

Okay, okay. It's hard to go back to budgeting now. No, it truly is. Okay, so we're budgeting. Let's talk about budgeting creating a financial priority. We're budgeting to be able to go see a complete unknown in Dune 2 16 times. Yes. I did see it three times in theaters and I do not apologize for it. Dune 2 just like watch over me.

I was in a club with this guy and he was like, do you want to come home with me and watch Dune? I would say yes. I would be like that works on me. You've never seen. One or two? I've never seen part one or two? I've never seen either. Dune two lost in New York.

you've never seen Dune 2 last year. I went home with him. We just didn't watch Dune. Oh my God. I'm such a sci-fi nerd too. That's a lot of things people don't know about me. I like sci-fi. Okay. It's so good. Okay. I couldn't tell you've gone to my head how we got there. I don't know what you said. Oh, I said Timothy Shalamee YouTube compilations. That's what I'd rather watch than track every penny. That's what it was. No, but it's true. I don't want to sit and track every penny because it's a fucking waste of my time. And it's also, it's like, that's not helpful because just your life changes. Right? Like we're going into summer. I'm more likely to like, spend more on rooftop bars and like I didn't have that as a category in the middle of December because I'm not going to a rooftop bar in December. I live in Seattle, so it's cold. So I think that for me, it was coming up with a method that actually fit my life and didn't feel so restrictive.

So it all hinges on automating your savings. So that's what I talked about before is like bucket number two is your goals. So paying off debt, saving money. So if you can set up that automatic transfer of bucket two, you've taken care of the hard thing first. You've done the difficult thing. Everything else falls into place after that because bucket number one is your expenses. Again, we have all of this in the book, but if you take care of the hard thing first, you set aside your savings when you get paid, and then you pay your necessary expenses, your rent or mortgage, your insurance, daycare, your groceries, then you get to spend the rest of the money that's in your bank account on whatever you want to spend it on. And like, you don't have to budget every penny. Like you just

budgeted because you did the hard thing first. Yeah, I just love this. Again, like what you said is so simple, you know, it is put it in the savings, cover your expenses, and the rest, do whatever the fuck. Like, I think people really, and like you said, this feels, I don't want to call it loose, but not tracking every penny. No one wants to, it's not realistic. Well, it's not also, it's not sustainable, right? Exactly. And if you get off on that, great. Totally. That is something that you really actually can stick to that benefits your life. Great. But most people come to me because they're like, I don't have a budgeting method that works. And I'm like, okay, you don't need to do a spreadsheet. If you're not a spreadsheet, girl, you don't need to use a,

an app if you're not an app girl if you automate your savings do that one thing that technically a computer is doing for you then everything else falls into place the only thing i ever learned in school after all these dumb fucking classes about like budgeting and money was how to do you have classes though i learned how to balance my checkbook yeah that's the only thing they taught i was just like okay i'm from the 1880s and the internet existed then like i'm not that old i'm just saying if you're getting a balanced checkbook i wasn't knocking you i'm like yeah that that was the learning i had too And my mom had showed me that. My mom actually did show me that. Yeah, my mom did it always. Yeah, my parents used QuickBooks 97 until about 2018. Like, it's insane. Okay, financial priorities list.

Yeah. Okay. So the question beyond budgeting and spending then becomes, well, what am I doing this for? Right. Okay. I'm told I should save money. What for? I have student loans, Tori. I have, don't I need an emergency fund. I need to retire someday, but I also want to go travel. Okay. So the number one priority is an emergency fund. I don't care how much debt you have. you can be in $100,000 a debt. I need you to have an emergency fund first. A couple of reasons. Why? Number one, I need you to not have to go into debt to pay for an emergency. Okay. Or more costly debt.

Second thing is we really prioritize mental health at her first 100K. There's something about going to bed at night knowing you have something saved. If I wake up tomorrow and shit hits the fan, I'm good. And then the final thing, and this is so important like we were talking about before, I need you to have fuck off money. I need you to have enough money to go. get out of a situation that does not feel safe, whether that's an apartment, a relationship, a job. If you don't feel safe anymore, I need you to have enough money to walk. So that needs

to be at least three months of living expenses. So bucket number one, those are your expenses. Multiply that by three. And that's living in a high yield savings account. So when we talk about automating your savings, setting up that automatic transfer, that's where it's going, is you're automating it into your emergency fund. Once that emergency fund is done, then we're paying off our credit card debt because credit cards are really expensive. I love credit cards. I love credit cards. I don't knock them. There's other financial experts out there that are like, never touch a credit card.

No, you're an adult. I'm going to treat you like one. I love credit cards because I'm flying to Mexico for free. I'm flying and like lie down flat seats to Paris for free. Yeah, and we'll talk about the cards and stuff. Yeah, but they're like, they're tools. They're knives, right? Knives can make you dinner.

They can also cut you if you mishandle them. So credit cards used responsibly are great tools, but if you do have credit card debt, this is where we're going to start paying it off. And I will give you the ultimate hack to paying off debt. You ready? Okay. So when we're thinking about debt,

the principle and the interest, are the two components of debt. The vast majority of women actually go into debt statistically because they can't explain how a loan works. It's not because they're stupid, it's because the education isn't there. So the principle is the amount of money you took out. So if you put $1,000 on a credit card and do not pay it off,

you now have $1,000 in your principal. The interest is the cost of that debt. So for most credit cards, it's like 22% on average, right? It's really, really high. And how the interest is applied depends on the loan. So the thing with credit cards, the thing that makes them such slippery slopes if you don't manage them responsibly

is that that interest compounds which means the interest earns interest and the interest compounds daily. And this is just money you're literally lighting on fire. Literally. And we all did it. It's so hard. I made some very, well you remember when we were in college they used to be able to set up outside pizza of pizza, give you a free pizza with a credit card.

So illegal now. It's illegal. But such bullshit. And like, I took out four credit cards in college and I. Because probably nobody taught you. Victoria Secret. I have a whole section of Victoria's on my book because the amount of like 16 year old girls who walk in there. And Victoria's Secret especially like 10, 15 years ago would call it like the angel card. And it was like a rewards card. It was not a credit card.

It was a credit card, but it was not branded like it was. I still remember the morning that I was like maybe 20 years old and I woke up and I was in Pittsburgh and I told my parents I had taken out these credit cards because I couldn't sleep at night. And I had so much. I think I owed like $15,000. That was like an insurmountable amount. People commit suicide over this kind of stuff. A lot of people die by suicide because of money. I wasn't realizing, like, you're literally laying it on fire, and I racked up a ton of

debt, whatever I eventually got out of it. And then I was like, I finally had savings. I had figured it out somewhat. I was like, I want a Delta Amex. And I was like, I am paying that off every month. It's only for the perks. You treat it like a debit card. Like, yeah, treat it like a debit card.

I only doing this for the perks. I'm not doing this to buy things I can't afford. Yeah. And I want to hear you speak on that because, like, that was a foreign concept to me five years before that. Yeah. Like my credit card was to buy things I couldn't afford. Totally. So I'll round out with the hack about paying off your debt. Then we'll go there. So principle and interest, right? The interest for credit cards is compounding every day. And that's why it feels like such a slippery slope because it's just like you can't dig your way out of a hole when the sand's

coming back. Yeah, it's a great metaphor. So if we can lower our principle, you're going to pay less in interest, right? Because if the interest rate is 22% on $1,000, that's expensive. If it's on $800, $100, well, that's cheaper, right? You're not going to pay as much interest and it's not going to accumulate as fast. So what you're going to do, whether this is credit cards, student loans, any sort of debt is you're going to call whoever your debt provider is. So, okay, I have a capital one credit card that I'm in debt on. Call capital one and literally ask them, how do I make principal-only payments? Like, how do I send extra money just to the principal? When I had a car, like I got my first car when I graduated college, and I remember my car payment was like $450 a month, and then I

had an extra $50. So I just sent it in. And I was having to write checks at this time. And they took $50 off of next month's payment. So instead of $450, I owed $400. So it did, but it didn't help at all because it's just like, okay, I just like prepaid next month. So I called them and I was like, hey, how do I send money just to the principal?

And they're like, oh, in order to do that, you have to send separate money in a separate check and a separate envelope to a PO box in Iowa that we're only going to give you the address to once you have called and asked. This is what happens as companies are sneaky. They make it really hard to pay off your debt faster because it keeps you in debt. It makes them more money. So anytime you can call or visit the website and just be like, okay, how do I make principal only payments or how can I start lowering the interest rate of the loan too? Like the I'm financially struggling card is fantastic. Call your credit card provider. Call whoever your debt is through and just be like, one, how do I make principal only payments?

And if they won't let you, or even if they do, then go, I'm financially struggling. Like, what can you offer me? Okay. They'll sometimes offer you a lower interest rate. So, okay, we went from 22 to 18. It's still high, but you're saving 4%. That's huge. Absolutely.

So there's a lot of things that you can do. And again, we have an entire chapter on debt payoff in the book, but there's a lot of things that you can do to either make your debt more manageable so you can start paying it off or like learn how to navigate the really non-transactual. transparent system so that you're saving money. So do you have advice, and I'm glad this doesn't happen as much, but like when I was in college, I took out all these different credit cards. I had debt spread across a bunch of banks.

Do you have advice for like combining your debt onto one card? Yeah. Would you advise people to do that? Yeah, we have more information. I'm not going to give like personal finance is personal, so I can't say it's 100% the solution for everybody. But we talk about like personal loans a lot as a great way for you to take, especially if you have a lot of credit card debt and consolidate it because then you're making one

payment. It's also way lower interest. It's typically like 12% or 10% as opposed to 25. And it doesn't compound every day. It's simple interest. It doesn't compound. So what you see is what you get. We have a personal loan recommendation on our website as well. That's a great tip. I'll link all of this for you guys so you can put it in the show notes. But you had a question too about debt. I mean, well, again, when I was younger, I wasn't fully realizing how much money I was just lighting on fire. And then I was like, oh, the point of credit cards is to, at least now. as a, you know, at this stage of my life is to use them for the perks. Build credit.

Get perks. And not buy stuff once I've cleaned out my debit account, you know, and it's just, it's tough to talk about because people are like, well, I want to go on this vacation and I can't afford it. So I put on my credit card. And then it's just like, it's a tough discussion to have because you're like, I get that. We've, we've all been there. But you are just going to pay more in the end.

So I don't know. It's like a tricky thing. Like, it's so hard. And it's like, this is why I talk about, it's going to like make me a little teary. but like this is why this work is so fucking important. Yeah. Is I don't want you living a life that makes you miserable. I don't want you to have to say no to things you want to say yes to. And I don't want you to have to say, you know, yes to things you want to say no to, right?

Like there's a balance here. So this is why when we get our financial house in order, you get to say, yeah, I'm going to be a bridesmaid, even if it cost me $2,000. Yeah, I'm going to go on this trip with you because I have the savings. I have all of that set up. So maybe it would be helpful to talk about like how to balance spending and saving. Would that be helpful? Yeah. And I guess I'll wrap it up one final thing. And again, this is just kind of like a tough love question to ask yourself. Yeah. When you put all that money on a credit card, what's the plan? Do you plan on making more? You know, like everybody's a different psychological reason. I mean, for me, I was like, I am on a path to make more. Like I'm in a weird industry.

You know, at least I could hope like things are going to blow up for me. And they did. I mean, it took a long, it was a long. long road to get there and I really didn't feel financially stable at all till I was late 20s maybe even 30. Yeah. But like if you're in the same job with no really plans to change your situation, like what are you telling yourself of how you're going to pay off that $2,000 in the future? Yeah. This is hard.

So that's why we're doing this. Right. Putting money in your savings and you're figuring out for yourself long term so you don't get in those holes. Well, I want to highlight what you just said because it's so smart and so important. And again, this is where we see the difference between women and. men. We've been socially conditioned to believe that we become rich or become financially stable through scrimping and through frugality. But men have been taught make more money.

That's the good advice. And I need more women to be thinking about how can I afford this because I'm making more money, not because I'm skrimping to the point of, again, hating my life. So you're probably underpaid like in your nine to five job. You're probably underpaid. So if you have not have a conversation about compensation with your boss, great time to do that. We have a whole script in my book about how to do that. If you're not thinking about like, okay, what are money moves like the high yield savings account? I don't have to do any additional work and I make money. Great.

That's an additional source of income purely because your money is in a different place. That's a way to make more money. You can start either making those big decisions of like, okay, I think it's time for me to start really looking for a new job. Or maybe it's time to invest in a side hustle or even just, you know, I need to be in this kind of bank account versus this other one. These are the small decisions you can start to make that immediately, make more money for you so you don't have to think about, oh my God, okay, I have to cut this

because I can't afford it. It's more, how do I make more money? How do I think strategically? And we were talking about Rameet before. And he has this great quote of like, stop thinking about $3 decisions and start thinking about $30,000 decisions. So it's like, how do I make more money? How do I invest more? And I know we want to talk about that. Like, how do I make my money work harder for me as opposed to stressing about like the little things like the lattes or the stuff that I'm spending money on? Right. So we, you're saying like I'll pay it off when I make more do the things to make more you have to make more any financial decision you do need to make a plan especially if you're like okay I'm spending this

money I don't really have I'm going to be honest I don't love that but I can't convince you otherwise like if you're going to do it you're going to do it but you need to then have a plan to know okay I'm putting it on a zero percent APR credit card but that zero percent ends in 12 months so I better have a plan to pay off my credit card debt by then. So if you're going to make certain, you know, adjustments to your money or you're going to make certain choices, you've got to have a reason for doing it and you've got to have a plan. Do you talk in the book and maybe I skimed over this about salary negotiations? Yeah, we have a whole chapter about earning. Okay. And then if so, I've read statistics about like, it's hard to get a huge increase at your current job. Typically.

Yeah. You leave. You can't get huge increases. I mean, there's a reason I was job hopping every two years. Uh-huh. But I think people, women, specifically are really socialized to think like I don't want to ask for too much you don't want to over ask my father owns a headhunting recruiting business and so I was raised to really know how to negotiate a salary but I remember him like basically like holding my feet to the fire being like no one is gonna get rid of you because you ask for a little more money in this interview process nope but that's a really hard skill to learn and ask for way more money totally we have in every chapter almost like the narratives that you're believing so the spending narratives right that's the like frivolous

spending thing we talked about so in the earning chapter one one of those is like, oh, my loyalty will pay off. Like, women believe that of like, they're going to see me. I'm going to keep my head down. I'm going to do good work. And they will give me a raise. No, they won't. Like, they won't.

They're going to keep paying you what you've been. They're going to love that you're doing more for less. Totally. And so you have more negotiation power when you first start a job, like when you're interviewing than you will ever have at your entire tenure of employment there. Totally. So it's like the stigma around job hopping is a thing of the past. Like post-COVID things are just so different now.

and it's come to be expected, especially with people who are in their 30s or 20s. And then, yeah, you have more power like when you first, so you have to negotiate. Companies expect you to negotiate. Most companies, one,

won't even give you a range sometimes on the job description, right? But then they'll tell you, oh, this job pays 70K or whatever. They expect you to ask for 75 or 80. They have that budgeted and ready to go. And if you can't negotiate salary, we have literally a whole list in the book

about everything you can negotiate besides that. So PTO, 401K, work from home hybrid work. Stock options. Stock options. There's a million things you negotiate. Sign on bonus, right, besides just your salary. Yeah, I mean, the corporal world is so different than when I was in it.

It's crazy. I worked at Amazon. I worked a Groupon. I mean, I cannot speak to what that's like. But it never benefited me financially to double my workload. It was just like, thanks, kid. Yeah, and they'll just give me more. Yeah.

Well, and then, you know, to your point about, like, job hopping and leaving, of course, it doesn't look good if you get fired all the time. We're not talking about that. No. But, you know, then your current job could pay you to stay. You know, if you are going to leave. They have this other job. There's ways to frame everything, right, in a way that isn't like, fuck you.

So, like, hey, I actually just got, you know, this really interesting message from this recruiter. And I had a conversation. And they actually offered me $10,000 more than what I'm making right now. And I love it here. I would love to find a way where I can stay. How do we find a way I can stay together? And then they give it to you and you're like, oh, you had it the whole time. Oh, absolutely.

And then you're best. Well, because especially now as an employer, like, you know, we have a pretty sizable team and it's like, it is so much more expensive to go out and try to find somebody than it is to retain really good talent. Totally. So you just got to hope you're really good. I don't know. If you go to your employer and say like, I need more money to survive. My living costs have gone out.

Okay. Can I say that? Please. That is actually something we don't want to do. Yeah. Okay. Because, Ashley. No, I know you don't believe that.

We know that's not how you would go into a negotiation. I need more money for my life. My Airworn water is really expensive. Can I? Yeah. So let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. It's super common.

Yeah. It's like my student loan payments are starting back up again and so I need money. The employer doesn't care. Yeah. They don't. I do, right? Because I'm a nice employer. But like at the end of the day, you are there to provide value to an organization.

Right. So the best thing you can do is think about not how much do I need. Like what is the market telling me I should be getting paid? So when I go on, you know, glass door or these like salary sites, when I start talking to other people in the industry. Like my background was a social media manager. So before I would go negotiate for a job, I'd be asking other people in marketing. Like, what are you getting paid?

Or based on the job description of what I'm doing, what do you think this jobs get priced at? The other reason we want to do that is because then it doesn't feel so personal. Because if you go in and you're like, I need to make rent, I have to do this. Like, the cost of living is really expensive. Well, also I guess the employer is also welcome to say, like, I didn't tell you to live there. I didn't either rent the department or make these financial decisions. Well, and then you're really scared about that negotiation because it feels such high stakes. And if they tell you, no, it feels like, again, a personal thing as opposed to, no, this is what the data is.

This is what I should be getting paid because of this data. How do we find a way to get there together? But just to be clear, are you saying, like, go to your employer and say this is what Glassdoor says is a common salary for me or you would not do something like that? I'll give you the script. You ready? Yeah. Okay. So I call it the Gratitude sandwich.

So it's really important for women because when we ask for money, and this is why we talk in my book and our podcast about like, you can make all the financial decisions that are 100% fantastic, but the entire world does not like women with money. Like you have, unfortunately, women just existing, right? You have this against you. So you have to play to that. So your first thing, gratitude, first piece of bread. I love working here or I thank you so much for this job offer. I'm really excited. you're going to list, you know, oh, this is great, and I love the team, or I loved getting to know you, blah, bitty, blah. Gratitude. The meat of the sandwich is the ask. Based on the market data for this position, to be fairly compensated, I'm looking for a range of X to Y.

So I did three really important things there. First, based on the market data, I've done the research, I've talked to people, I have it. You're not citing particular sources because then your boss is going to go to Glassdoor and they're going to find the data that doesn't support what you want, right? So based on the market data, one, you've done your research. I've done my homework. I'm not just asking for a million dollars, right? To be fairly compensated. What happens then is that your boss is going, I'm not unfair.

I want to fairly compensate this person. And then you're asking for a range. You are not asking for the range you discover through conversations or through on Glassdoor, right? If Glassdoor says 70 to 75, you need to be asking for 75 to 80 or 75 to 85 because you're going to hopefully land in the middle. Yeah. So we're asking for more than what we want because if we get it, great. But if we don't, then you're willing to come down and then you're right in the range.

The thing that's really important. So that was the meat of the sandwich. A little condiment, your mayo, your aoli, whatever, right? You say, I would love to get to a number we can collaboratively agree on. That shows I am willing to have a conversation. I want to make this. I'm not making demands. A collaboration, not a conflict, right?

This is a problem we're trying to solve together. And for women especially who are conflict diverse, who are scared of a negotiation damaging their career in some way, that is so powerful. And then the last piece of bread, again, gratitude. Thank you so much, looking forward to working with you on this. And that's your negotiation. I love it.

It takes the emotion out of it. It says I took the time to research this. I would love to collaborate. And if you don't negotiate too, honestly, it's kind of a red flag. It's like, for me as an employer, I'm like, oh, if they're not negotiating. Now, I'm a little different because, like, we list the salary range. I don't do the bullshit because I'm like, I know how hard it. is. But for most employers, if you don't negotiate, it's kind of like, oh, I just got this person for

really cheap. Maybe they're not great. Yes, I agree with that. And I worked at sales jobs at big corporate companies and they want you to negotiate because they want to feel like in sales, you got to negotiate. It's a skill. I don't know. Some companies pay you, they don't undercut you. I think when we come up with salaries, we see what the market rate is and we go there or higher. So I think you and I are really fair. And you and I do a lot. of research. Did we ask people around us to see what they're paying? Yes, I don't, we don't give them the low ball offer. This is why when women have money, nothing bad happens, because we're all fair. We're doing the market research. I literally have in

our job descriptions now. I post a range, right? And I also say like, hey, we don't have to do the bullshit. This truly is the range. I'm not like secretly withholding money. That's how we roll. Yeah, but most people don't do that, right? And it's usually most male dominated workplaces don't do that. Also, it doesn't fall on them. Like, if you and I underpay somebody, Rain and Ashley out of paying somebody in their assholes. If Groupon underpays somebody, who does that fall on? Nobody. I just want to compensate people for their work.

Absolutely. And have them do a good job. Absolutely. But unfortunately, this is not, that's not the MO of most. And then for just really quick to close a loop on asking for more money, what if you are making the market rate and you just want more, you're like, I'm doing really well. I've been here for a long time. Totally.

Is that more of like considered job hopping? Then it's performance based increases. Or it's, okay, I need to go get another job. Or it's, okay, the salary. is actually pretty decent. So that's where I negotiate a PTO. That's where I negotiate a more flexible time. That's where I negotiate a better title.

That's my favorite thing to negotiate because it doesn't cost the employer or anything, but it sets you up better for the next job. So, yeah, when I was the only social media person, I became head of social, right? It sounded sexier. It was more exciting. But I was a team of one, right? So then I could set myself up better for more money,

better job title further on the line. I always remember my dad saying to me, no one is going to end an interview with you. you because you ask for more money. Don't be delusional and ask for something crazy, but no one's going to have dedicated this much time and energy to you and just hang up the phone. And let's be real. If they did, you don't want to work there because they are showing you that they will never

have a hard conversation with you. Like they are not willing to see your value now. They're definitely not willing to see your value the next six months, year, two years, six years. Love that note. Okay. Okay. What's next, Raina?

Well, we're talking about credit cards. I just, I want you to give your advice. Do you have some credit cards that you like? and I want to close the loop on that. Again, I'm going to sound like a broken record. We have all of it on our website because we get asked about it all the time. Her first hundred k.com slash tools.

I'm a Chase Sapphire Reserve Girling. We're Chase Sapphire Reserve Girlies. We love a platinum as well. Just the annual fee is getting worse and worse every year. I do it for the lounges because the AMX Lounge in Seattle is. But now those chefs' challenges are coming up on AMX. I know. But the other thing, I was literally at the airport yesterday before I flew out.

And every single time at the Amix lounge in Seattle, they're at capacity. And it makes me want to single-handedly cancel my card. But let's talk about credit cards and how powerful they are. Because everybody thinks, okay, great, credit cards, okay, if I use them responsibly, cool, Tori, why would I do that? One, you're building your credit. We live, unfortunately, in a fucked up system where your credit score is kind of your adult GPA, right?

It's like how well you're doing it life. And if you want a house, if you want an apartment, if you want, sometimes a job, they check your credit. Sometimes you're electric company to get your electricity. You have to check your credit. So we're building credit. That's the easiest way to do that. Second, the perks.

And we're not just talking about the hotel stays for free, the lie down flat seats for free, although all of that's true and real. I was in London two years ago, year and a half ago. I got my phone stolen. My brand new iPhone stolen out from under me. I had to replace it, obviously. So that was $1,000 down the drain and then an additional $1,000. My credit card covered it.

Yeah. Rob got robbed. Rob's going to rob. Rob needs to change his name. I think in France took his whole bag with everything and his platinum mammacks covered it. Yep. I just rented a car.

Additional car rental insurance. Ava preferred membership. Yep. Free and included. Travel credit, $200. Travel credit. Clear. TSA precheck.

Uber credit. DoorDash credit. Right. There's a million reasons why a credit card is really, really powerful in addition to all the sexy stuff. But like when shit hits the fan, like when you're somewhere that, you know, you need to get home from, I almost consider it like a secondary emergency fund, right? Like somebody in your family gets sick, you're having to do an overnight cross-country

flight that costs $1,200. Okay, cool, do it on your points, right? Then it's not an additional cost. Again, something happens when you're abroad. You need to replace your phone. You need to do something. Okay, do it on your points or do it with the protection that the card offers. So, especially, again, while everybody's freaking out about money right now, you have your emergency fund, your actual, you know, in a high-yield savings account, and then your points, in addition to all the sexy perks of, like, free travel can also be like a secondary emergency fund for you. I would encourage people who I can't even claim to have done this so much in depth. It's to really look at all those perks.

Absolutely. So that's the other thing I want to highlight really quick is a lot of people see the like a $500 annual fee and they're like, it pays for itself. It pays for itself. It really does. So don't be scared by that. And then when you book with them, sometimes you get like a $100 credit. So the hotel I'm staying at now, free breakfast.

I have $200 on-site credit. I got free check-in. Yeah, I got a free upgrade, a bigger room. Yep, absolutely. Yes, get involved in all of that. Okay, so we will talk about investing, but I just want to talk about overconsumption for one second because we're talking about credit cards

and just spending habits in general because after the situation that happened to me in college when I had all this debt and my parents were wonderful to help me and then I owed them the money, but I didn't know all the interest. I made a promise myself that I'm just, I'm not going to spend more than I have. I pay off my credit card every single month I always have since that time. And I always remember I would look around all these girlies

and be like, how are they affording these bags? How are they afforded? And it's like, oh, because they're overspending because they can't afford it. Or because somebody's paying and we just don't know it. True. Sure. That's right. Or they can actually afford it.

But that's usually, especially in your early 20s, that's usually not the case. Right. Yeah. So, I mean, do you have some advice for overconsumption, overspending spending habits? Okay. I don't need you to stop spending money. I need you to stop spending money on shit you don't care about. A lot of us spend a lot of money on stuff that we look back on and either completely

forgot we bought, right? The amount of like Amazon packages. is that get sent to you and you're like, I don't know what's in this box until I open it. Like, that's probably a red flag. It's at least like a pink flag. Or just like I'm mindlessly spending to try to fill a void. There's a lot of things outside our control right now. There's a lot of panic.

It's very easy, just like any other vice, alcohol, weed, sex, right? It's very easy to just go, okay, I need something to make me feel better. So I'm going to spend money. It's like a drink. It's like, it's a vice. Yep. It's like a dopamine hit. It really is. It's proven in our brain.

You buy it. You get it. when it shows up, you get it again. Yep. That's why I feel like people really did it during COVID because they like needed a thing. Yep. And also like I got mail. You know, I'm like Steve from boo's clues and I get mail and it's exciting, you know?

Yeah. So the practice I have, everybody do, and it's in my book as well, is what are your three value categories? These are the three areas in your life where you get the most joy. I want you spending pretty unabashedly where you're talking about bucket number three, right? Your fun bucket. My bucket number three is filled with the things that I really value.

So for me, it is plants. We were talking about that before. I love plants. Decor in my home, right? Like, I'm such a whole body. I love that. It's travel and it's food out. Those are the three areas in my life where I do the most spending.

You and me are in all the same buckets? I know. Are you the same thing? I love it. But like, am I buying the occasional coffee? Absolutely. But if I'm looking back on my budget and I'm seeing, oh, I spent a lot of money, then that either means my value categories are wrong and I actually do value this

thing or I'm spending my money on things that I don't really give a shit about. Like, it's 20, 25. I want you spending your money. your hard-earned money on stuff you actually like that actually makes your life better. And if you're not, I need you to reframe. So just look through your purchases. Like how many of these things fit with those three value categories?

How many don't? And I have a feeling a lot of them don't. So then you decide, right? This is where people start to feel, oh my gosh, it's restrictive. No, you're just deciding. Actually, this is what I like more. And I give an example. It was like a, I wish I could remember the name off the top of my head,

but she was a personal finance blogger who talked about it as Taco Dollars. Tacos were her favorite thing spend money on. So anytime she was going to spend money on something else, she would ask herself, like, how much does this in taco dollars? And this is what I do. Like, okay, I'm about to spend $100 on something. Well, $100 could get me to L.A. Is it worth, you know, not being able to travel as much? Sometimes the answers, yes. Sometimes the answers no. That's great. Like hotel or flights. Right. You ground it in the thing you really love. So for her, it was tacos, right? Okay, I'm about to spend, you know, 100 bucks. How many tacos is that? Right. Is that worth it? And so that way you're always

starting to be more mindful of your purchases as opposed to just like, I'm spending this money. I don't fucking care. I'm not going to think twice about it. I love that. And I mean, I really think a great example is like a designer bag where you're like, that's literally a flight. That's a trip. And for some people. And maybe you don't care about travel. But I mean, maybe it's the bags. That's your values. But like to me, I'm like, that's a flight in hotel. Totally. And some people, that's that. But some people want the bag. Right. Like, you know, I'm a multimillionaire. I thought about the designer thing. I went and did it. It did not give me the rush that I see some people on TikTok where they're like, okay, I've loved this bag for four years. I like took

it out of the box and I like cried, that's not me at all. But a nice hotel, I'll spend any amount of money on a nice hotel. So like, you start to learn that of like, okay, what do I actually like spending my money on? Again, because I worked really hard for this money. And if it's not giving you that sense of like euphoria or like joy, I love going out to eat with my friends. I will throw down $800 on a really good meal with the three people that mean the most to me. I am so fine doing that. That's That's like I'm about to go home. I have a chef friend in Seattle who's closing his restaurant. I'm doing a tasting menu with my partner.

It's a thousand dollars. It's a lot of money. But I know that that's great. Totally. And it's really good food. That's what I love spending my money on. But if I drop $1,000 on a Chanel belt or whatever, that's not going to give me the same hit. So you have to just figure out where do you want your money to go.

And again, I'm talking in thousands of dollars. This is in $20 purchases too. Yeah, but those add up. I think about that all the time. Right. Your t-shirts. Yeah, my t-shirt. All this should I buy on Amazon.

All that stuff. I started to think my closet in terms of like dollar signs and all the stuff that I buy. And I look at just all these dollar signs just stacked up. So I've just been selling shit on Poshmark like crazy and I'm stopping doing this stuff. Sure does your king. For turning and selling stuff. Great. I feel like I make that money back.

And let me tell you the dopamine hack that I love. The same dopamine hit that you get from spending and I'm not, I know this sounds like bullshit, but it's true. You can get it from transferring your money to savings. Ooh. Like you can get, like in your brain the same hit that you get from adding cart from buying from like you get looking at your bank account when you're saving you get the same hit when you're transferring money or buying stocks like turn your stocks into the thing you buy right i like this

because then you can take your money it compounds it's actually again this is going to sound so nerdy and everybody listening is going to be like it doesn't work that way but i promise you it does when you start seeing that your money's earning money that's the thing that becomes addictive oh yeah you mean there's a reason why your business is called your first 100k is like when you've made that and you had it and you saw it in your bank account. I was talking to a friend recently who had that experience and like saving 100K. And he was just like this was a dream.

You know, like this is the way that feels, you can't buy anything that's going to, that's feeling is valuable. And again, then you get to spend pretty unabashedly because you know you're financially taken care of. If you do all of the stuff that feels a little inconvenient and I have a whole chapter about self-care and like the money habits and all of that.

And like self-care has been commodified. We think self-care is like the glass bottle of wine or like the, you know, bubble bath at the end of the hard day, those are self-soothing actions. Those are the things you do in the moment to make yourself feel better because you got a shit day, right? So again, the face mask, the bubble bath. Self-care is the hardship. Like self-care is eating a salad when you don't want to eat a goddamn salad. Going into the gym, when you don't want to go to the gym, having a hard conversation,

going to therapy, and yeah, looking at your money. It's the stuff that feels really inconvenient in the moment but makes future use life so much better. And like, that's what real self-care is. And so when we're thinking about, again, trying to be able to afford our lives, trying to make sure we're taking care of ourselves, self-care will feel uncomfortable while you're doing it, especially at first. But it's going to make future use life so much easier. Tori love you. Yeah, I do love you. Can we do investing?

Yeah, let's just do investing a little bit. And we do encourage people. Your book is phenomenal. I've always happened to come back too because, I mean, I wrote an entire book about it for the Timothy episode. Don't tell me with a good time. My baby girl. Yeah, like so much of this stuff is on your side in the book. And I do have to say we asked our audience what they wanted to know from you.

And it was investing overwhelming. Great. Paying off debt and investing were the top two. And I think that people are like, I don't understand the stock market, but there are other ways to obviously invest besides just the stock market. The stock market is a great place to start. So again, I wrote a whole book about it. I'll try to keep this brief.

Well, if somebody says, I don't know the first thing about investing, what's my first step, day one. Okay. So the reason you don't know anything about investing is, one, nobody taught you. We've kind of established that. But two, there is a multi, multi, multi-billion dollar. industry built on making you feel like you're too stupid to understand. Yes.

And that is the finance industry. That is the Wall Street Chads in Patagonia vests who are like, oh, I know, it's really confusing to just give me the money and I'll go invest it for you. And I'll take 3%. Crazy. I know 3% doesn't sound like a lot. That's fucking insane. When you're only making like 7, it's a lot.

Or we hope we're all millionaires someday. Or it's millions of dollars. And then it's so much. A ton of money. So this is the stat that blew my mind. 25% of professional stock pickers in the past 10. years have outperformed individual investors. So I'm going to break that down.

Only a quarter of people who are professionals who are supposed to be good at their jobs are actually good at their jobs. That's insane. If I had to have surgery and I had to work with a doctor that had a 25% success rate, I wouldn't work with them. Right. That's crazy. So you can invest yourself.

You can do this. I promise you that it's not as complicated as they make it out to be. Men love to make things more complicated. If a man can do it? Truly. A man? Truly. And they love to make it more complicated because it's like an ego boost.

And like we did better than you in school. I know we did. And women are better investors than men. All the data projects. I believe it. We don't do everything better than men. No, truly. What does the TikTok sound like a man?

What is it? It can't be that hard men do it. Yeah, thank you. That sounds like a rain original. It's true. It's true. We're going to sell T-shirts and say that. So please don't give your money to a man.

Like, truly. Scott, you're fired. Brett, you're fired. Truly. Like, Brian. My brother. You don't need like a Wall Street Chad to come and save you. You really don't.

I love the guy who manages my money. He's wonderful. We have great teams. No, no, but like his sister listens to the show. And I've known him since he was like in kindergarten. The stuff I've seen this kid do, I can't even honestly believe that I give him my money. It's insane. Well, and you know, I was just in a suite at, like such a flex.

I don't mean it to me. But I was just in a suite at Angel City of C last night. with a bunch of like celebrity and famous people. And they were talking, you know, because they all want to talk about money with me. And they're like, oh, but I have a great financial guy. And every time I want to be like, do you? Yeah. Like, do you?

Do you know how he gets paid? Do you know what his fees are? Like, I'm not going to put you on blast, but we should talk about it after. Like, do you know what his fees are? Because this is again where. We pay someone else to monitor. Yes. And you feel like, again, we have another man on the call while they manage the man that manages

our money. We're joking. We'll tell you our situation. Actually, we're not. But actually, Ashley, for, sometimes I am like, I don't care. And Ashley has forced me to be like, we've to ask questions. And I'm like, uh, do it.

And again, for most people listening, you're probably not running, you know, a multi-million dollar business. You're not doing any of this. But it's the same thing. It's like, oh, I'll go to Edward Jones because they're smart. No, they're not. They're terrible. Oh my God.

Like, they're terrible. Okay. And so, okay, here's what you need to know about investing. One, investing is a two-step process. This is the number one mistake I see women make. It costs them millions of dollars. Oh, my God. It is not like a bank account.

You open a bank account. You put a thousand dollars in. you're done, you're good, right? That's step one. Investing is a two-step process. You have to put your money in to a Roth IRA, a 401K. This is the account that holds the investments. Those are not the investments themselves. Step two is you have to go buy the investments. So we'll talk about index funds in a second, but you could buy stocks, index funds, etc. It's almost like your stocks going into your shoes. A lot of people think it's just shoes, it's not. It's like a gift card. I put money on the gift card. I go to go buy things with the gift card. So I have seen countless women

They message me every day. They go, I didn't know it was two steps. I put my money in the Roth IRA. I didn't do anything else. And I've lost 10 years of investment earnings because no one told me. The story I tell in the book is a woman. I've named her sweet little Rose. Rose was a public school teacher.

She saved a portion of her paycheck in her 401k for 35 years. I have told the story so many times. And every time it gets me, she went to retire. She was 65. No. Showed up and was like, okay, I'm ready. And they're like, you only have $300,000. Now, that sounds like a lot, but it was $300,000 that could have been earning.

She could have made $4 or $5 million off that money. She did not have enough money to retire. I cannot. I'm looking straight down the barrel into the camera. I cannot have this be you because this is, again, the lack of education, the, oh, I'll just give my money to a guy because I'm so scared to hit, like, no, I need you to manage it yourself. I need you to know.

Step one, step one, let's talk about the accounts. 401Ks, IRAs, these are great places to put your money. These are retirement accounts and they're taxed. advantage. That means that the government is incentivizing you to save for retirement. They're like dangling a carrot. And they're like, hi, if you put some money in these accounts, we are going to give you tax breaks in exchange. And they're for your retirement. That's great. We want to have 65 year old us, live in our best lives. 65 year old me is going to be drinking Savian Blanc with lunch and flirting with her much younger Pilates instructor named Luca.

Like this is my real life retirement plan. Tori, we're going to be with you. Great. She has like a villa in Italy. She adopts dogs. It's a great time. Yeah, it's the wine at lunch. Totally. I can't do this. It's Giuseppe or Luca or whatever. She can't live that life. Start naming him. Yeah, but when he starts asking you for 10K,

just like his mom over here, you know. That's not Valentine. Take my dogs. Take my dogs. Go walk my dogs. Yeah. That's the life I need for everybody. And you have to do a little bit heavy lifting now.

So that is a great type of account to open. You get a 401k through your work. If you don't or even if you do, an IRA is a great option. All of this is explained in the book in more detail. Step two is then what you're, choosing to invest in. I personally love index funds. Index funds are groups of stocks. Women think investing is picking a hot stock. Amazon, Tesla. Fuck Elon Musk, by the way. Johnson and Johnson,

I don't know, like Microsoft, right? They think it's picking the hot stock. That is one of the riskiest forms of investing because you have put all of your eggs in that one basket, right? And you're also then trying to predict like what company does well. That's impossible. So an index fund instead it's just a group of stocks. So rather than one, two, three, it's hundreds if not thousands of different companies. So you open the Roth IRA, you open the 401K, and then you choose an index fund. They're really low in fees. They help that diversification way. This is how I became a millionaire, is I took all of my earnings from entrepreneurship. I set up my retirement accounts. I max them out every year. And if you can't max them out, still contribute. And I was making sure to diversify my

investments in an index fund. And this is an S&P 500 type vibe. Yep, you can do that. So So the S&P 500 is the top 500 companies on the U.S. stock market. So I personally like VTI. That's my favorite index fund. And we also have, I will shamelessly plug it because nothing like this exists. I built an app in a platform that teaches women step by step how to invest. I do life coaching. I actually have built an app with my co-founders and my friends about how to like actually

so you don't have to log on to your fidelity, Schwab, Vanguard, Robin Hood, confusing account. You can actually get started investing. So I actually just rung the opening bell at the NASDAQ stock exchange because we were celebrating $80 million that has been invested. And the vast majority of that 80 million is by women who have never invested before. So if you were that person that's like, I have no idea how to invest, I would love to teach you. It's called Stock Market School. That's the app. Yep.

Okay. This is also just like, thanks. It's my favorite thing. And I invited, oh, it's going to really make me cry. I invited community members with me. So I was there with my CO. I was there with my business partners. My dad was there.

and there was like 40 of the women in our community. And I got to ring the bell and I still can't watch the footage without crying. No, I'm crying. I can see it. It's so sweet. But it's just that you're the real deal. Thank you.

But it's like these women do it. Like I give them the path and then they have to go out and do it. And again, every part of society wants to keep you from having money because it makes you controllable. I want you to be uncontrollable. Yep. Like the patriarchy's worst nightmare is an uncontrollable woman. And I fucking love being the patriarchy's worst nightmare.

And like, that's the feeling I want. Again, for every single woman is like, you know what? Yeah, 65 year old me is covered. 30 year old me is covered. Everybody's good. I can spend my money on things I love. I know I'm saving money. I know I have my plan together.

So if shit hits the fan, I'm okay. Like, I need everybody listening to have that. I love that. And again, this is like just scratching the surface of how to do it. We can't sit here and be like, I mean, you've given people the overview. But definitely if you did everything we talked about today, you are better off than 99.9% of people. just like getting in doing the Roth R.A. Whatever it is.

Like you make it easier and all your other resources. But we did just want to touch a little bit on the current state. I mean, we can't really talk about money investing without kind of thinking about the recession looming and the fears that people are having given the presidency and the, you know, culturally just everything being even worse for women and all of that. So our work has always been politically minded.

The first thing we say in the book and in all our work is like the personal finance equation is about 20% your own choices, right? So the things you can control. How well you budget? Do you understand debt? Do you know how to invest? Right. And 80% all of the things outside of our control. Racism, sexism, abelism, homophobia, a trillion dollar student debt crisis, stagnating minimum wages, lack of paid family leave federally in the country, right? There's a lot of things, uh, climate change. There's a lot of things that have a way bigger impact on your money. So the first thing is to understand that that exists because it's very easy to believe that you're the problem. you're often not the problem.

Yeah, maybe you made some bad calls. Maybe you overspent, right? We can acknowledge that. But like, if you're constantly getting passed over for a raise because all of the men are making more money, that's not a you problem. If you went into severe financial strain to care for your children because you didn't have paid maternity leave,

that's not a you problem. So the first thing is to acknowledge that. So we have to control what we can control while we work to change everything else. So voting, protesting, calling your reps like this is as much a financial action as is budgeting and saving. So super important. Yeah, everybody's freaking out right now. So let's talk about stock market crash recession, Trump, all of that. Everything I teach is exactly what you should be doing when it's sunny outside and

exactly what you should be doing if it's a fucking hailstorm. It's the same thing. Emergency funds. Paying off your debt. And yes, investing. Stock market crashes, if that's, is where we're going, is actually a really great time for you to invest. It is never a bad time to invest. Because when the stock market's doing great, cool, you're doing great. When the stock market's down, well, stocks are on sale. If you were going to buy a coat that was $100, and now it's $50, well, cool. And then let me just tell me in really quick.

So when people are investing in the stock market, I mean, the point is kind of like long term. You're in this for years of not decades. I think that kind of goes out saying, but, you know, I didn't know this one was in my early 20s. Like, again, you could be a day trader or whatever you want to do. But, I mean, if you're not recommend that, of course. People do it and they make money. But just the point is that it's going to ebb and flow and you can't check on it all the time. It's a roller coaster.

No, I would actually, this is the one time where I would actually, like, this is the ostrich effect where you actually need to do this. I'm a multimillionaire. I have millions of dollars in the stock market. If anybody should be freaking out right now, it's me. I'm not. I'm totally calm. You know why? Because I understand it's years, if not decades.

If this even goes on for a year or two, right? Like 2008, everybody freaked the fuck out. Rightfully so. I get it. It was a really hard financial time for people. But stocks, you have not. not lost money unless you choose to sell. It's kind of like a house, right? If I buy a house and then Zillow tells me five years later it's worth $100,000 more, great, but I don't have $100,000 in my pocket

unless I sell that house. It's an asset. The asset goes up in value and goes down in value. And it's not an accident that I became a millionaire the last time the stock market was down in 2020, 2021. I stayed the course. I kept investing. And then from 2020 to 2025, the stock market was up 140%. So even, you know, and as of this recording, who knows, we're recording this just like April 1st. So if the stock market does go down, well, we're looking still, we've climbed up 150%, 140%. So even if we go down 10% or 20% or 30%, we're still sitting really pretty compared to where we were a couple years ago. So you have to stay the course. And we were talking about this before we hopped on Mike of like, you know, your financial guy is like, you have to, you know, you have to do this and the math, maths.

And it's like, ultimately, you just have to manage your own emotions. Yeah, and we have money in stocks. I have a lot of money in T-bills. Yeah. Look at you, Ashley. When I talk to my financial guy, I told me to get those T-bills. I mean, the T-Bills are doing great. Yeah, I'm doing great.

And they're low risk. I mean, my biggest fear is like apocalyptic. So my biggest fear is my money and the banks are no longer protected. Okay. So if it's, let's talk about that. If it's not the stock market, it's like everything. If it is a zombie apocalypse, right, the last thing you're going to be thinking about is like, how do the SMP 500 perform today?

Right. So it's going to be my money, though. Absolutely. But if you have taken care of yourself, I would rather go into the zombie apocalypse being like, yeah, I have a little bit of money than having no money. She's afraid that banks are going to close down. She's just a number. I don't have this money in my house. Like I get this is really dark. But I'm like, I'm getting this question for a lot of women. Like it's just a number. Where's the money? You know, like that one bank closed in Silicon Valley and like people lost their money. The banks have an FDIC insurance, right? Up to only a certain amount. Exactly. What are my T bills? I like freak out of that. No, but this is really important. Let's talk about this.

So the FDIC insurance for most banks is $250,000. Right. Most people don't have over $250,000 in their bank account. If the government really does go away, we have a lot of other problems, too. I don't have an answer for you. This is what my... See, and that's what my business manager said, too. I said this.

I was like, the government's going to fall apart all this stuff and everything. He was like, if that happens, you're going to have a lot of other issues. I'm like, yeah, but I'm going to... I'm going to need my money. Actually, I'm not going to have bigger issues of the government. What's going to happen? Like this is my only thing. Well, it's a Handmaid's Tale situation at that one.

Exactly. But I really am, even talking out, I really am doing everything right. But my fears are just stuff that you can't. You can't. And I also, I say this with all of the empathy in the world because I've been wanting to talk about this, but in a way that doesn't make me sound like an asshole. I get that that's a fear. And again, so many people in our audience right now are just like, oh my God, but Trump's

doing this and he's doing this and he's doing it. And I'm asking him, just like, okay, first of all, the panic is what he wants. Yeah, like the pan. No, that doesn't mean we can tell ourselves, do not panic. But that is feeding into the energy of freaking out about everything. The second thing, too, is it's like, this is the part that I can't control, right? This is the part that is outside of my control. I think people often use it, and you're the exception to this, but I think people often use that as, and again, this sounds harsh.

Please know I'm saying this with so much empathy. This sounds like an excuse often. It's the excuse for not doing the things you can control. A lot of people are not saving for. retirement because they're like, well, the Earth's not going to be here because climate change. So why would I say it? And I'm like, but what if it is? But what if it is?

Yeah, I think we all do that. That's the thing when you fuck off when it starts snowing outside. You're just like out of snow day. Absolutely. We're treating this like, it's a great metaphor. Totally. And it's like, it's so much easier because I'm like, oh, but it's so, the world's so shitty. So like, why would I do this?

And I'm like, because it's the one thing you can control. And it's also going to give you some semblance of normacy, normacy. Normalcy. There it is. but also just knowing, okay, I'm doing something even when the world feels like it's burning. I'm doing something. But the last chapter in my book is all about

how do we use money as a tool to not only better our own lives, but better our communities. We listen to women focused and feminist-centered media. Thank you everybody for listening. We support the kind of businesses we want to see. We protest. We think strategically about where and how our money

and our voices goes. This is the stuff that you can be doing when everything feels like such a shit show. like control the things you can control work to change everything else. I love that. But yeah, I get it. I know.

I was even like, should I put this in Canada? You know, and like, I know a lot of people have messaging me about offshore bank accounts. And again, my next question to them is, girl,

do you have your emergency fund? And like most people are like, no. And I'm like, okay. So we can't be doing like personal finance 601 before we've done personal finance 101. Exactly.

Yeah. And again, I mean, some of the questions coming from us are not relatable to every single person. No, but the fear is, real and I just want to like I don't have a solution for you except I was always going to say like you're allowed to be worried when the rest of it's taken care of too but like work to do that everybody

listening and then we can all freak out it's just like you control the things you can control the panic does not help we do our best to mitigate that panic yeah and the financial advisors are like this is not their fault this is their job but they're basing what they're telling their clients on historical data and that's understandable but I'm like but it's unprecedented you know but we've had a million unprecedented things. Like, I always think, because I, you know, I have the same thoughts when I head hits a pillow at night and I'm like, oh, God, what if this really is the end? Like, everybody thought World War I was the end. Everybody thought World War II was the end. Everybody thought, the nuclear wars. Like, we've had, 9-11, right? Like, most of us were alive for 9-11. And I was young,

but I remember thinking, like, everybody thought, oh, this is like, the world is about to end. Like, Y2K, right? Like, we've had a million of these moments. And I have to be optimistic and think, we're going to get through this. I think that. I want to believe that. I just, I want to survive it. I know.

I know. And keep my money intact. No, I get it. I know. We could talk to you for hours, honestly. I would love to come back. I love what you're doing for women.

I can't tell you how many people I've seen in my life have to stay in bad marriages because they couldn't afford to leave and stay at jobs that they felt really abused at that they couldn't leave and you're giving people tools to be able to just have a better life. So thank you for what you're doing. I love your shit too. Thank you for just. You're the best.

Talking about the hard stuff and showing. up and just I love being professional yappers with you. She's my favorite thing in the entire world. I'll come back and do Timothy with us. Oh my God. So just to like wrap up with something fun, we took this from your Instagram and you asked what is something that you've spent money on the last year that improved your life and your well-being.

So we hosted a two to ask our audience what they've spent their money on. I was very surprised by what like the number one answer was. We want you to guess what you think people spend on. Yeah. Divorce. Oh my God. Did anyone say, I'm sure people, we got, I saw that one in there. It's in there.

think people took it as more of a tangible item. Because when I ask it, I think they know. And so it's usually like, it's like something that made their life concretely better. Yeah. I guess it's about it. Is this a material thing? A lot of them are material things. Some people said divorce.

Some people did. And some people said like therapy. A lot. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But again, this is what we're talking about of like waste. Like concretely make your life better.

It's like, yeah, cool. You get to get divorced. You get to go to therapy. I would say like eras tour tickets or something. That was in there. Yeah. What is the number one thing? Wait, did you see that now people are being required the

profits they made from the Ares Tour, they have to, like, file something about it. This is unprecedented. No one's ever done this before. This is why, because it's the woman making it? So, like, I flipped tickets for the Ares Tour. Oh, oh, you? I have to file something. Oh, he's like income? Yeah, like income. I mean, it's income. If you made over

$2,000 or $2,500 from flipping Ares Tour tickets, you have to file that. But that's income. I mean, I get it. That's income. Yeah. What's the number one thing? The ORA rank. The ORA. Yeah. And you're aware one. Not sponsored, but here you go, ORA. Here's free marketing.

Just like therapy, that is something that people daily... That's the number one thing. I would not have been able to guess that. It was over and over and over again. There were a lot. Therapy came up in time. I think they're taking it from the materials.

Again, my audience is like, the ability to fly across country when my dad was sick, right? Yeah. People took it as the thing. Yeah, totally. Orerring. Yeah.

Gym membership, fitness stuff, class pass. Robot vacuum, Dyson vacuum. Right, we're talking about health, right? Health is wealth, baby. So yeah, your orang, dog. You know, just like, to be like happier. Your dog makes you happy.

Lexa Pro. Tubbing mascara. Taylor's with tickets, cheese, a house cleaner. That, I mean, and I say this with couples. You buy your time back. I could spend an hour talking to you about just like offloading all that stuff and paying for that. You buy your time back and couples, if you're arguing about cleaning and you can afford it, just take the argument off the table.

And again, how much cheaper? And again, the vast majority of people probably are listening and you're like, I can't afford a house cleaner. Okay, no worries. Then how do we make enough money to be able to do that, right? Like start asking yourself the million dollar questions as opposed to go. Oh, that's never going to be me. How do we make that be you? All right.

We could end it on that then. Cool. I love it. Thank you so much. Make more money. Tori, you're amazing. I know that people are going to want to find you, listen, read. So tell everybody, website, podcast, everything.

And of course, this will always be in the description as well. My podcast and book are called Financial Feminist. And my company is called Her First 100K. I am Her First 100K.com and Her First 100K on all the socials. Instagram is my favorite place to hang out. So come say hi. Love it. You guys know where to find us.

Girls Gottoeatat.com. We are Girls Got Eat Podcast at Instagram. TikTok, I'm Ash Hess. Raina's reina. Dot Greenberg. Get those vibrators. It'll change your life at vibes only.com and subscribe on YouTube. And we will see you Thursday.

Have a good week, guys. Bye.