Girls Gotta Eat - How to Take No Sh*t From Men (and Still Date Them) with Drew Afualo

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

Put this episode on if you want to get fired up (in the best way). We loved having author and influencer Drew Afualo in the studio going all the way off about the patriarchy and taking no shit from men (on the internet and IRL). She shares her journey of working in sports, getting fired (like all the cool girls do), and how she found her voice and created the platform she has today. She discusses how we all start out as Pick Me Girls, dating men when you hate men, the fallacy of the "leftover woman," how to be more brave and find your voice, the one tip she has for anyone who wants to be an influencer, how men and women reflect differently after they go through a breakup, and so much more. Before Drew joins us, we talk about Rayna's meal prepping and the embarrassing thing Ashley did in her sleep. Enjoy! Follow Drew on Instagram @drewafualo and Tiktok @drewafualo, listen to her podcasts Two Idiot Girls and The Comment Section, and read her book Loud. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for more. Thank you to our partners this week: Aura Frames: Get $35 off and free shipping on the Carver Mat frame at https://auraframes.com with code GGE. BetterHelp: Get 10% off your first month at https://betterhelp.com/gge. Skims: Shop the Skims Ultimate Bra collection and more at https://skims.com/gge. Article: Get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more at http://article.com/gge. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There's no man at the end of the rainbow. There's no like, oh, the grand prize for hating all women is I get a man. Right. Also, some fucking prize. And trade in my girls for that. This podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi, guys. Hi, guys.

Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Happy Cinco de Mayo. I forgot what day was. My favorite holiday from my 20s. This is an excuse to binge drink margaritas. I don't even think I thought about it in my 20s. I was just like every day with Cinco to Mayo. I would take off work.

I told you this before I took a half day. I was the first person at this party. Like, no one was there. I was like, I guess I'm here. It would turn into like a street party. I was the first person there at 1 p.m. Took a half day. You were like,

I don't care if anybody's here. I'm starting the party. It was like a giant restaurant in Buckhead in Atlanta called Rio Grande. And like it picked up at like four or five, but people worked that day. I was like, no, it's a holiday. I got to be there at one for lunch. God, you're 20. They're setting up.

The DJ's not even there yet. I used to fuck was thinking of. why I was so hard. You know what I was thinking because I'm throwing Raina Palooza and I've been like really planning my birthday party and like I'm out to all these vendors and I'm going to really feel like Summer House is my inspo for it obviously so I'm going to do like a water slide I'm doing face jewels and tattoos with glitter and I'm so excited and I think I'm going to have this company to do like specialty drinks the DJ all this stuff but one of the things I'm as I'm talking to the vendors are like what time do you want us to start and I'm like you have to like anticipate you won't come for like hours after

you start a party, but not this party, because everybody's staying at the houses with us. Totally. The party starts. I'm going to be bagging on doors. Party started. Like, party starts. These vendors are getting paid by the hour.

Get your ass down there. You're the, party starts. The people that are going to payne palozo, and the glitter tattoos. So the theme is Raina Paloosa, which is Coachella theme, basically, and festival.

And I want everybody to like have their face. to say Lollapalooza. You said another festival. It's not Rainichella. Coachella inspired. Fuck you. Raleh. Rana chella didn't flow off the tongue like that.

Okay, okay, sorry. Anyway, so I want everybody to, like, have help with their costumes. So I want the face glitter and the jewels and stuff. But, like, I need to give them a start time.

And people can't be rolling in three hours after the party starts. No, Raina, I will have my megaphone. No one's at the face jule station. Face jule girl is bored. Someone better go visit the, facial station. Running it like the Navy.

I literally can't wait. It is like my vacation. Like I told you this like my fiance and I just like one of our vacations. Like he's taken off work for it. Everybody is. I mean, yeah. Because it's like we're not really doing that a big vacation this summer. You're enough going on this year.

I know. The tour of the wedding and all the things. So I'm just like he's ever been to the Hamptons. I'm like it's, I'm just so excited. It's weird. I'm realizing like because we have so many West Coast friends now and he's from Boston. Like the Hamptons, if you don't live in a year. York, people have not been there. Totally. Like, I don't think it's like a place people from Boston are

like rushing up to. Well, they'll go to the cave. Yeah. Yeah. Everywhere else but that. Right. So anyways, people will be on site and I'm really reaching out to a lot of people. If you want to give me free stuff for this birthday party, if you want to be a vendor, please don't be shy. Raina Dock Greenberg on Instagram. Reach out. Offer me caviar and alcohol and entertainment, a clown, a magician, whatever you want. Puppies. Okay. And if it goes well, you can do my wedding. Exactly. We will advertise you on this. My vendor list. Okay.

Let's thank some of our partners. Thanks to article, get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more at article.com slash gge. And BetterHelp, get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com slash gge. And finally, Skims, get the Skims' ultimate bra collection and more at skims. com slash GGE. And thank you to Aura Frames. Get $35 off and free shipping on the Carverbat frame atoraFrams.com with code GGE. Okay, so this weekend is Mother's Day and we have the perfect gift for the moms in your life.

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Or you can get a free juice of lube when you buy any two vibrators that we, sell. So get one for you, get one for mom and get her a free lobe. Our lobe is truly just the best that there is. It is so silky and smooth. And you can get that with any pairing of the toys. Obviously, you guys know that the packaging that we do at Vives Only is so gorgeous. So it is really the perfect gift. Yes, because mom deserves to come first, literally. You guys can go to Vibesonly.com and shop the sale and give Mom the gift that keeps on giving. So I'm absolutely. I'm sorry, started, that's so embarrassing. I've started meal prepping. Yeah. And it feels very masculine to me. Like it feels very like, got to get my macros, bro. Okay. But I've really been enjoying it. I saw it.

I got served as TikTok and it basically was like one of the worst things that you can put in your body from the grocery store is like pre-processed salad dressings. So I was like, oh, I love to like fuck around with a dip or a dressing. So I've been making dressings every week. So we were talking about Caesar dressing just now. I'm going to make a green goddess today. Oh, I love a green goddess. I made like a dill herb last week. If you have extra dressing, I'll take that dressing. I would love to make some dressing. I do not understand how to bash things properly.

I always make four times the amount of food I need. Well, dressing. I mean, it's tough to make a little bit of dressing. Uh-huh. Like my mom, we grew up, my mom would always, I mean, not my early childhood years, but then she really started. My parents got way more into their health, and she always made dressing. We'd never had store-bought

dress. Like, she always had a big thing of homemade Cindy's dressing. That's nice. Not a Pittsburgh family. Went to the Giant Eagle. But I'm saying she made a lot. A ton. Yeah. Well, there's four of you. Exactly that.

So you got, yeah, you've got to have a ton of dressing on. A little body on hand. I use that mini blender, which I love. Okay. So mini blender is a great hack. And also I use yogurt on all my dressing. Just save some cows. But I've been meal prepping a lot and I've really been enjoying it.

I've never really lived a life where I open my fridge and there's food in it. Really? Yeah. Never. Like, I just get hungry. I go to the grocery store. Like, I take a walk and I grab a snack. Like, I'm not like a, I mean, I haven't lived with a man.

years. Like I don't need to like stock the fridge for somebody. Yeah. Do you like cook and have a bunch of food? Like I think you like you cook dinner every night and that's your meal for the night, but you don't have like a bunch of like I'm going to let you finish in a second. I've been making like a tuna salad, a chicken salad. Just so that I have like stuff to graze on. I'm eating a lot of protein these days. So yeah, just stuff to graze on all day every day. Do you have that? I have always have my fresh fruit. That's how I start the day. Always have eggs, cheese and butter. But we cook a lot of nights. I mean, We really only do takeout, like three times a month. But then we cook or we go out to dinner.

So we cook three to four nights a week. But I used to cook dinner for myself and then have the leftovers for lunch the next day. So those days are over. You really have not brought in a bowl and a pasta for lunch in a while. And I'm probably not eating as many galleries. Like I'm just kind of grazing for lunch. I'll have like nuts. Like I probably need to eat more.

Like, you know, I'm not a forget to eat kind of girl. But I'm like, I used to sit down with a pasta. I told you, you have a higher natural level of GLP1 than the average person. I don't know how you're doing it. Well, I think, I mean, you know, you age and you do need less food. Well, you have always been like a listen to your body when I'm not hungry. I stop eating. Yeah.

In recent years, but yeah. I'm really been in, I feel like having a full fridge. We got beers in the fridge. We got Topochicos in the fridge. We talked fucking a whole Tobocico fridge. What does that mean? Like a little mini fridge with our Topochicos. We're big to be sucking down that much topo.

We do drink a lot of Topo Chico. A whole T.C. fridge. I just thought it was so cute. It is cute. Like, you know, so if they're listening, then you guys have fridges. Wait, what's the little fridge? What's the cute one that you wanted that we're going to get them for the studio? Like a smeg. A smag. Yeah, they're expensive. They're very expensive. Smag if you're listening. How much how can we get for free? Anyways, that's how I'm living. I'm really enjoying it. I've never had food in the fridge. You're domestic. You're being domestic. I'm dating myself. Yeah. And a lot of people, but I'm dating myself. So I have food in the fridge.

It's great. I know. I like to have a full fridge. You feel is very adult. And I just, nothing zends me out like cooking. I did something this morning I've never done. I don't even know how to start the story. At seven o'clock this morning, I woke us both up because I screamed out loud from a dream. What? Had a dream I was being chased and screamed out loud. Not a sexy scream.

My Beyonce impersonated. It's so embarrassing. Woke myself up. Woke him up. He looked a distraught. He looked so upset. I would be so upset. Upset for me.

Like what just happened. Oh, I would be upset for me. No, he was so upset. He like held me. I was like, oh my God. I don't like talk in my sleeper. I have like night terrors or anything. Like I have a friend that like has like night terrors.

It's awful. And she'll like wake up and she'll scream and she'll throw stuff. She doesn't really know what she's doing. Like in my dream, I, can't scream. Don't you have those dreams? You're like being chased or something terrible is happening. You can't scream because you're like kind of in that weird. I think I was about to wake up anyway naturally. I was able to scream out. Yeah. I mean, I will wake up because I couldn't scream and I'll have to like talk to myself and be like, you're safe. Everything's fine. That was the moment,

but it came out. Woke myself up, woke him up. That's crazy. Crazy. Have you ever woken yourself up farting? No, that's exclusive to you. once a year or something and I'm like oh thank God no one's here you know I can't but I can't stop thinking about him being woken up I hope this is not I really hope this is not a pattern for you because I dated somebody who had night terrors and he would wake me up and say the crazy stuff he would be like eyes open like maybe it was just fun with me my ex shook me awake one night and he was like the little man and I was like what little man he was like in your hand and I was like one he was like the little man in your hand and I was like

The little man in your head screaming at me. It was crazy. He was a big guy. So it was kind of crazy. Oh, my God. Not the little man in your hand. A little man in your hand. He's like wanting to, he just wants the job.

He's like, actually put him in your mouth. So yeah, I hope that doesn't happen. That's never, it was a weird moment. Do you feel like you're under a less stress? Not really. I mean, I was thinking about some things before I went to sleep. It was all kind of tied in, I guess. No, I just.

What did you watch before you went to sleep? Paradise. Oh, you're watching. We're watching Paradise, but I read a little bit of the wedding people. Okay. I was thinking about some wedding stuff, some Bachelorette stuff, thinking of things I wanted to plan. I was having kind of like a bad dream correlated to that.

And then I was on this bridge at this hotel and this man started chasing me. And that's when I was like, ah! Anyway, So that was my morning. I was wondering what you went to sleep thinking about because I'm watching Severance. So that was like what I went to sleep. I think I gave you a spoiler by accident.

Maybe not. It's okay. You finished Severance the first season. than what, a couple weeks ago, a week ago? Two nights ago. Okay. So you were met, and then you got to start the second season, which you're so lucky. I watched that show years ago.

Crazy. And I've just been waiting. I don't remember anything from that show. Never. When shows, there's years between seasons, like, I always have to do a refresh. That show is so slow moving and so weird. I mean, I love it. And I'm going to stick it out.

But that's what I watched before bed. I tend to not like to watch stuff if it's so serious before bed. Severance is not before bed. Yeah. So I did watch the season one finale. which obviously is such a great hour of television. You've said this before. And it was weird right before bed.

My dreams, this was Sunday night, weren't nightmares, but they weren't not nightmares. Like, they weren't, like, yell out, you, like, scream out in the night. But they were just fucked up and weird. Mm-hmm. So. I hope this isn't going to become a pattern for you guys. I know. I hope not either.

Maybe you guys are getting some, like, weird, like, roleplay or stuff about it. Yeah, exactly. Okay. See what's something you want to talk about today. I just, this thing came across my own desk, and it is very crazy. So I learned about this through you. So on Spotify, there's Dailus. Yeah.

You guys might not know about that. Really? You might be like, yeah, obviously everybody knows about that. But Spotify will put together these like playlists for you. And they name them crazy stuff. They're getting crazier.

They are getting crazier. And it goes by, I guess, what you listen to a lot. Yeah. So I started listening to music the minute I wake up. I just like, I connected to my Alexa. I go get coffee in the morning and I just listen to music. And a lot of what I listen to in the morning is like Noah Khan type vibes.

Benton Boone and somebody named Mark Amber, who I like a lot. But like that's the, of vibe is just kind of like folksy kind of music. Yeah. But I mean, I have a huge mix of music on my phone. Every genre that exists. And I guess I listen to country sometimes. I didn't really think I was like this.

It really does show you who you are, your day list. I didn't know who I was until I read these day lists. Okay. So I'm going to start with a pattern that emerged. Coastal Cowgirl Granola vibes Sunday afternoon. Okay. Happy folk granola vibes Wednesday afternoon. Easy Country Sweet Tea Saturday.

Backwoods pickup truck Sunday evening. Backwoods pickup truck. It's a horror movie. Coastal Cowgirl Folk Wednesday afternoon. Teen Pop Western Friday morning. They're chaotic. These are Gen Z's writing these. I'm like, who comes up with these?

And I don't listen to that much country music. I love it, but it's not like my personality trait of mine. Okay, so then it takes a turn for the worst. Yeah. Seclusion Electric Monday morning. Bad mood sleep Friday afternoon. sad, heartbroken Tuesday morning. No.

Heartbroken sad Thursday afternoon. Am I that sad? Am I that sad? Okay, let me ask you this. I have a theory. I swear it's just the music they're trying to promote. Like, do you always feel like it's the same shit? It's always the same 10 songs.

Oh, it's always the same 10 songs. Yeah, like they know, I'll read mine, but they know I listen to rap and R&B and hip hop a lot, and they don't serve me that on my day list. They're just trying to promote Noah Khan and Benson Boone and all these artists. I feel like it's just whatever's popular. Like I wish my day list were more unique.

Well, mine have gotten a little crazy because I've been like, I'm like one example right now. No, I think I just like now I've made a conscious ever to stop listening to so much. Stuff like that. Yeah. And now everything's been like mid-2010s fraternity Tuesday afternoon. Jason Derulo. Mine's like jungle juice frat basement afternoon.

That's a perfect title. Why are they not using jungle juice? They're like roofy vibes, happy hour Thursday night. Where does this come from like sad boy, melancholy, but make it cinematic Sunday dusk? So I have one that's similar to you, Happy Folk, Coastal Cowgirl Wednesday afternoon. Oh, so they are doing Coastal Cowgirl for everybody. Yeah. Chill electronic, Deep House Friday afternoon. Do you listen to House?

No. Chill House, Abiza, Thursday evening. It's just like Kigo, I feel like, I don't know. Pumpkin spice granola vibes Wednesday morning. That's very Ashley coded. Here's my personal favorite. Pink Pilates, Princess Brat, Summer, Saturday evening. Those are just words. Read it to me again?

Pink Pilates, Princess Brat, Summer Saturday evening. Seven words. That's the longest title takes up the entire screen. I know. Acceptance situation ship Friday morning. That should be mine. You were like, I'm sorry, I think you had to have to rain out. Acceptance situation ship? What if you were dealing with a situation ship? You're like, I'm attacked. What songs are attached to this? My boy only breaks his favorite toys. Taylor Swift, Riss, Gracie Adams, do a leap of these walls. Meanwhile, at the bottom, you see what I'm playing. And I'm playing. It's nothing like that.

Love in this club, Usher and Jeezie. They're never serving me that. Okay. Mountain music overthinking Monday. It's so crazy when they tell you're overthinking. Music. Here's one from a while back, but I wish I would get more like this. Soul crushing scream morning. And that's like Miley, Renee, rap, G-flip. Soul crushing, soul crushing. Soul crushing. Sad scream Monday afternoon. I don't know what I was going through

it this time. Here's a good one. Confidence baddie Wednesday evening. That's the shit I want. Chill rock alternative Sunday afternoon. But yet lately it's all been this like granola, coastal cowcrow. I just feel like it's the music they're trying to promote.

I also asked chat GPT for just like funny dayless names. And I was like, are these real or not? Okay. Emotional Support Blanket Core Tuesday. Low key spiraling, but still hydrated Friday. These are amazing. Dramatic main character breakdown Wednesday, noon. Crying in the Trader Joe's parking lot Monday mix.

These are so much better. Delusional hope than sudden crashed Thursday evening. I love this. And then there's two more. Playlists for staring at the ceiling. And then existential dread with jazz undertone Sunday brunch. I love it. I have been seen a lot of this like Pink Pilates Princess Brat.

Like good. That's insane. That's just words. I know. Anyways, I'm glad we did this exercise. I'm like, I'm too old for that. I just kept seeing heartbroken, sad girl, just day after day after day. And I was like, am I depressed?

Yeah. Does this play about us? Yeah. Tell me I'm a baddie. Okay, guys, we have such a fun interview for you today. We can't wait to get into it, but we're just going to tell you about a few of our partners. All right, you guys know that I am obsessed with home decor and decorating my house, and you always ask me to give you some tips and tricks. Article, that's your tip and trick.

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to get $35 off plus free shipping on their best-selling carburemat frame. That's A-U-R-A-Frams.com promo code G-GE. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout, terms and conditions apply. Okay, guys, we are very excited to welcome our special guest today. She is a content creator and a viral sensation known for her unapologetic takedowns of misogyny and fierce advocacy for women.

She has been named AdWeek's 22 Digital and Tech Creator of the Year, meta's creator of Tomorrow, and one of Time Magazine's next generation leaders and one of Forbes top creators. My God, you're so impressive. She is the host of the comments section podcast and the author of Loud, except nothing less than the life you deserve.

Please welcome to the show, Drew Afuallo. Woo! I feel like DeNaris Targaryen. I got so many names in front of my name. Thank you so much for having me. Oh, my gosh, so happy and have you here. You're a big, like, fantasy girly. I do love.

I do love a fantasy. Tell us all your fantasies. I love a rom, like a fantasy novel, love. What are you into now? Right now, I was reading the Flesh and Fire series. I was reading those. They were really good, but then they threw in a pregnancy trope, and I hate those. So I said, DNF.

I'll revisit her in a little bit. And you're also an Akitar girlie? Yeah, I have read the Akita books. So I was like scrolling her TikTok and her and her fiancee dressed up as Nessa? Nesta and Cassian. That's hot. Yeah. Well, they kept telling, I will say, I had no idea about those books.

I had never read them before. and then the internet kept telling me that our relationship reminded them of that one so that I was like I thought I'd feed the booktot girls Halloween. Totally. So that couple doesn't really get big in the series until book four. Oh, it's a little more.

She's the sister. Well, she's the sister of like the main character, the protagonist, if you will. This is not my part of the internet. You got to get into it, girl. I know. It's fun. Those Akatar books, I'm like, that is a commitment.

I've never seen books this big. Once you're into it, it doesn't feel that long though, which is nice. but the guy more so looks exactly like my fiance. Okay, I love that. The girl doesn't look anything like me, but she's just mean like me. So they're like, she's some guy, really mean girl. Perfect.

Can I ask what the pregnancy trope is that you don't like? Oh, yeah, they basically, she found out she was pregnant, but right before the big battle. So they like, basically, she's sidelined for the fight, which I fucking hate. Okay, hate it too. I was like, hate it, hate it, hate it, hate it. She can have babies later, hate it. So that's just my preference. Okay.

I love those books. My problem with it is that the main character is like 20 years old. Oh, I hate that too. I'm just like, I don't want to read, I don't want to masturbate to a 20 year old. It just feels like inappropriate. I'm almost 40. Every time I read it, I'm always like, well, that's me. Every time I'm reading the main girl, I'm like, well, that's me.

Even if they say like pale, blue eyes, tiny waif, I'm like me, literally me. Literally may. I just picture myself the whole time. I wasn't sure. You are, you're tall and I wasn't sure. So somebody, we asked what kind of questions people have for you? One of the questions was what kind of advice you have for like tall girlies on like fashion? And I was like, oh, they must mean for Ashley.

I wasn't sure how tall you were. Oh, yeah, no, I'm six feet tall. You must get this all the time. Yeah. Oh, yeah, all the time. Every time they see me, they're like, no, my God, you are tall. I do tell people quite often, though, I'm a big girl. I'm like, I'm a big mama, you know what I mean?

How tall is your fiance? Six four. Okay. Yeah. So I'm six feet. Yeah. So we want to talk about, you know, your background story, just a little bit how you got into what you're doing now and what inspired you to do it.

Yeah. So I was journalism and communications major in college. And then I wanted to work in journalism, but I more specifically wanted to do sports. My dad's a former NFL player. My dad didn't play football until he was in his 20s and then got drafted and just because he was just that athletic. And so my dad's career in the NFL was short-lived. And so I knew I wanted to like be on camera. I knew I wanted to do like on-camera reporting. I just thought sports was going to be like my thing. because other news, like, would bore me. I tried doing, like, regular news or tried doing feature.

I did kind of like editorial a little bit, but I really wanted to do sports. So more specifically, I wanted to do long-form narrative storytelling on athletes. Like, I wanted to tell stories about them off the field, like what they like to do in their spare time, things that are not just centered around them being athletic. And so that's what I went to school for, got my degrees in. And then when I graduated, it's really hard to get a job, like, especially in sports and entertainment. It's very saturated. and especially here in LA, it's a very nepotism-driven business. So I kind of just worked in PR for a bit, which was kind of funny because it's the enemy of journalism.

I worked in the completely opposite field for a while, nowhere near sports. And then I just got a random resume pick to work for the NFL. So I did a bunch of interviews for that, got that gig, did that job for like 10 months. And I thought that was like my dream job because I was like 23, I think, at the time. So I was like, oh, my God, this is it for me. Oh, my God, everything's happening for me now. Like I just like, I'm a big manifester. I love like speaking things into existence.

So I knew I was going to work there when I was like 16 because I kept telling myself, that's where I'm headed. That's where I'm going. And I'm a Virgo. So I'm a big planner. Okay. Got it. And so when I was working there, I really wasn't having the best time.

I honestly was suffering so greatly mentally when I was working at that job. But it just wasn't what I thought it was going to be. And ironically, I was doing social media for them. So my job at at that company was to target women. and it was to like get women to, you know, engage more with social. And I had a whole bunch of, like, plans for it, but it's kind of hard to work in a really stifling environment. So I was really unhappy when I was working there.

And then I was, like, kind of trying to figure out what I was going to do. Am I going to try to move teams? Am I going to switch sports all together? I was feeling very, like, okay, clearly I'm not happy with this, but I'm not someone who leaves with no plan. So I have to, like, I kept saying, like, I am going to quit. I'm going to move on. But I just wasn't because I didn't have a plan and I had bills.

Like I was like, I have things to do pay for. I can't afford to just be jobless for whatever reason. And then they kind of did it for me. They fired me. And then when they fired me, two weeks later, COVID hit. And then everybody went home. Everybody's in lockdown. And then my fiance actually encouraged me to post on TikTok.

Because at the time, TikTok was like really starting to take off. Yeah. Obviously when COVID hit, it really took off. And then I started posting videos. And I at first I was just doing story times because that's what I used to do in college. I would like post myself ranting about shit. that doesn't matter. You know, like when you're in your early 20s, everything irritates you. And you're like, I have the most hot take on something.

I'm in my late 30s, actually. It's like everything is just the worst thing in the world and catastrophizing. So I was telling stories like how I did in the past. And then that kind of started catching a little bit. And then I did one, I did a video about my fiance when he was still my boyfriend at the time. And I talked about how he got me a gift for Valentine's Day, which was he paid for a year's worth of nail appointments like in advance. Well, it was six months and then six months later, but like he found my current nail tech, like told her she likes her nails like these shapes. She likes these colors. She likes

designs, whatever. Asked her if she could do it. And then paid her all up front and in cash with tip too. And then made my appointments for like six months. So he gave me. That was one of the gifts he got me for Valentine's sake. Right. Period. And then I talked about it in a TikTok and that was the first one I ever got like views on. That was like the first TikTok I ever started getting views. And then shortly after that, I made a video about a very specific red flags in men. Like someone said, what are some specific red flags in men you have? And so I made that video. And that was my first video to really take off. Like when that one took off, that was when I went like super viral. Is that how like terrible men found their way onto your page? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing doesn't quite like that.

You're like they found me. Yeah, they found me. Well, it was like a equal parts. It was like, And I'm 29 going to be 30 this year. So I grew up with the internet. I've like I've been a voyeur on the internet for a while. Like I've been a consumer. I've been nothing more than a voyeur for a while. And then I had never in my life experienced hate like that in a way that felt so personal. And not to me, I mean to them.

Like I must have really hit you if you came all the way over here to say some crazy shit to me. Yeah, I'm a stranger. But I thought it was funny. So I love to joke. I love to make fun of people. What are you talking about? So I thought we were all being silly. having fun. So I started making fun of them back. And that was when it was a really lawless time

on TikTok for me. Like I wasn't verified. I didn't have followers. So I could go crazy. I could go in there. And I was making 10, 12 videos a day. And I was saying the meanest shit I could possibly think of. And I'm really good at it. Like I'm, I can make fun of anyone. You could do the gross battles. Oh yeah. I can make fun of anyone, especially men. And so I was just lighten them up, like left and right. And then that's when I really started like growing, growing. Because they started seeing me attack these men and laugh about it and then they started sending me shit. Like they started being like, oh, have you seen this guy? Have you seen this guy?

Okay, do him next kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's like they started taking a ticket at my deli counter and then I was like number two, like calling them to the front. So that's really how it started. They started sourcing for me. You almost like, it's a gift to not really have like a verification or a following then because you really can just get as crazy as you want.

Because you're like, no one's going to see this. Oh, at the time. Yeah, it was like, the only person who's going to see it is the person I want to see it, which is the person who made that comment. Totally. I only need one view and it's from that guy. Yeah. So that's kind of how it started.

It's just, it's so interesting that you become this like trailblazer for like women's rights and LGBTQ community and like so many things because you went to school to work in sports. And I think you have a similar story to a lot of people, which was like COVID started. And I started making content on the internet. I didn't like go to school for this necessarily. No, not really. I got fired. I think that's the thing.

Well, all of cool girls get fired. There's a book coming out. these authors, they're writing a book called all the cool girls get fired. Every successful woman I know that's really blazed her own path, me included, rain included has been fired. Yeah. In a big way. A lot of my best friends like that are huge on TikTok now and their content creators now,

all of them got fired before they start doing this. It's true. I was like, you want to get big, you got to get fired. I'm just kidding. Don't do that. I think that like there's so few experiences in your life that are so extremely formative and nothing like kicked me in the ass like getting like just fired, like fucking fired.

in such a big way. It's a blessing. I want to ask you about working in sports because I want to tread carefully. We need women in sports. It can't just be all men, but it's like you're talking about men for a living. And you're talking about if you're football of sport that women don't really play. So I've always thought that's interesting. Like you have these like powerful badass women and they just talk about dudes for a living

and what they're doing on a field of a sport that women don't play. Did that ever cross your mind? Like you're like, I want to lift women up and I got to talk about men for my job? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it did cross my mind. It was more, I think in my head, I was like, there aren't enough women in this space, but there are a lot of women who watch football. Totally. And football, I mean, American football is a made up sport. So technically speaking, women could have played, but like women can't do anything when men are around, obviously. Of course, they didn't include us in that. But I also think when it comes to football specifically, like when I was doing the interview process for that job, I did a lot of research on the job itself. This is probably one of the most Virgo things. things I've ever done. But I did a PowerPoint when I was doing my interview. And I was like

showing them my PowerPoint on my laptop of like what I plan to do, why I plan to do it, that kind of thing. And when I was in my research, I saw that like at the, and this is again at the time, it was like 60% or something of NFL package purchasers and viewers were women. 60% is a really high number. And it's because women spend money. Women buy shit. Men don't. Statistically and historically speaking, they don't. But women on social were only engaging with their content like 10, 20 percent. So that's why they brought me in. That's why they created the job in the first place for me was because they wanted to

target women. Not because they give a fuck if women watch football, but because women spend money. And women are consumers. That's what they are. And honestly, women determine what's popular. Women determine who succeeds. Women determine who gets on the charts. Women determine, even with football players, like if you think about something like

Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift, right, the first game she ever appeared with him at, he sold out his jersey that night. They haven't sold. He's been in the league for a long time. Oh, she put him on the map like that? Yeah, so, well, it's women watching. Women are deciding. Women are like, okay, she's co-signing him.

I'm co-signing him. Absolutely. And then they sell out Chiefs tickets all the time. Now, because of someone like Taylor Swift, obviously they're the Chiefs, too, that plays a role. But, I mean, it's undeniable that women are very powerful. Like the female dollar is very powerful. So, I mean, I think in my head, what I was thinking was,

I want to engage women in a way that makes them feel seen and validated in sports. Like not in a way that's like, I feel like sometimes with sports entities to engage women, they're like, make it pink. Make it pink, give it glitter. Girls are going to love that. But I think, which is true,

some women do love pink and glitter. I think that's great. But I think it's almost like reducing them down to these very menial boxes. It's dated. Yeah, I think if you can talk to them like they're humans who like football, I think you can engage them.

So in my head, I was thinking, I want to engage them in a way that they feel seen and heard and validated. And I'm honestly really thankful that they fired me because then I got to do that my own shit. And I didn't have to give it to them. So it worked out for me. I think that's why people have latched on to this like Taylor Swift conspiracy theory that the NFL has like hired her and brokered this relationship. Oh, I didn't. And I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. I mean, it would be smart. Right. They got a rebrand. So. Women decide what's cool and they also

control the household spending. I mean, you think who decides like what a man's going to wear, what occasions we take, what restaurants do we go to? I don't think all men are incompetent. And they make decisions too. But I think women are in control of like how we spend money in the household. And if a man wants to buy season tickets to a football game and his wife says no, they're not doing it. Okay, just going to take a quick break and we are going to get back into it. And if you guys are watching on YouTube and you're thinking, wow, Rina's boobs looks so lifted up and separated and perfect, it's because I'm wearing skims, you guys. It's their ultimate push-up bra. It's back. I always kind of avoid push-up bras because I find them to be really bulky and heavy with other companies

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After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you, select podcast in the survey, and be sure to select our show in the drop-down menu that follows. And this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. So mental health awareness is growing, but there's still progress to be made. 26% of Americans who participated in a recent survey say they avoided seeking mental health support due to fear of judgment. And this month is Mental Health Awareness Month. So we want to encourage everybody to remove that stigma and take whatever steps that you need to be happy, healthy.

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That's BetterHelp, h-E-l-p.com slash G-G-E. Okay. So you use a lot of words, like internalized misogyny and patriarchal conditioning. Yeah. And like,

was that natural to you or you were just like, I got on-the-job training. TikTok about how terrible these people are and it made me want to learn. Yeah, I think a lot of it was already like unpacked and understood by me.

Yeah. But I also think doing this job has just, if anything, I think all it's done is solidified and made me more convicted in my beliefs more than anything. Unpacking internalized misogy and everything, I think I did the majority of that in college. Everybody's born a pick me, especially if you identify as a woman, and that's not our fault. It's just natural. It's what we do to assimilate.

It's what we do to blend. I was a huge pick me in high school. It's the same shit when, like it's literally I used to convince myself I hated the color pink. I don't. I love the color pink. But I just think now when I look back, I hated it because men hated it. Like men think it's for girls. that's girly, whatever the fuck,

like as if that's bad. So I was in my strongest pick-me phase, I would say in high school, which is natural. And then I think when I got to college, that really shifted for me, as far as the verbiage of things like internalized misogyny, I think that just came with time. But also I, you know,

went to college and I took a lot of sociology courses. I took a lot of courses on things that helped me understand the world as a whole. And that's why sometimes I encourage people to go to secondary education if they can and they want to. Like, I just think it makes you a better person. I think knowledge, like, is almost like an exterminator of ignorance, which is a good thing.

So it's good when we are well-informed. It's a good thing. Beautiful. It's interesting because you talk about it in your book, which I really encourage people to read and I really enjoyed reading it. It's incredible. But you talk about how from an early age, you had a feeling of, like, I don't really care about men.

But you also said I was a pick-me girl. Yeah. And I think caring about men is sort of what leads to being a pick-me and being this, like, kind of girl, it's like, I'm not like other girls. Yeah. I think it's a twofold. They can exist in the same body. I think it's one of those things that they can be contradictory but still exist.

So I think it wasn't men. It's like it's male attention, right? So it wasn't specifically any man ever I want him to like me. It was I like these things and I never really questioned why. So it was like, oh, I hate this thing. But I never really asked myself why. Now when I'm older, I've been like, why did I hate that thing? Oh, because men would tell me it was stupid and that's why.

But I think I've joked about this before, but like even when I was a pygmy, the strongest, strongest thing in me was how quickly men irritated me. And I think part of that was because of my delusional confidence. But another part was like, can we circle back to that? Oh, yeah, yeah. I've had what I like to describe as borderline delusional confidence since I was younger. Like, you couldn't tell me shit. You still can't. But like when I was a kid especially, you couldn't tell me anything.

Like I just thought I was the most awesome person alive, which I still think now. And it's never been at the like detriment of others. It's always been like, I think I'm awesome. I think you're awesome. Yeah. That's always been my mentality about myself. So like when I was younger, I never really took a lot of stock or value in what I looked like.

When I got hit puberty, I loved makeup. I loved being a girly girl, that kind of stuff. But I never thought to myself, I'm going to do this because men like it. Uh-huh. I would always do it because I liked it. But I never took superficial compliments like, you're so beautiful or you're so hot. I never took those to heart as much as I took things like, you're so smart. You're so funny.

The things about me that I've always loved the most have never had anything to do with my looks, which is why I think when I was in the throes of my pick me phase, if men would irritate me, that shit would wiggle inside me. I'd be like, hold on. It was almost like it would be like the mask. Like he'd be like, ah, and then he'd be evil. And he'd be like, ah, and then he'd be normal. That's how it felt for me.

Because I feel like the pick me would flare up sometimes. And then if a man got a little too comfy, it would go away immediately. And I'd be like, you can go fuck yourself. So I've always been really mean to men just because they fucking irritate me. Which I tell people I'm like, I mean, obviously, you ever hung out with one? They're fucking awful. Well, so let's talk about you being engaged to a man. And I'm just curious about your dating life before that.

How long have you been with your now, fiance? say this year will be eight years oh a long time okay so in like early 20s yeah yeah early mid 20s so how did he get in there I met him in high school okay okay yeah my prime pick me face yeah okay that's how that's how that's how we met but you've like evolved together I just want to like yeah yeah totally when we were in high school uh we were friends in high school it's a real enemies to lovers arc I like to jokingly describe no but we were really cool we were close friends in high school went to different colleges dated other people did you date in high school no oh you just for friends.

Yeah, no, he asked me to prom his senior year and I said no. He's six, four and you said no? Well, he wasn't six four at the time. And also, I'm just kidding.

He was six, two at the time. Oh my God. Yeah, I said no. I feel like I didn't care that much about height in high school. I feel like I didn't become like a heightest.

You're five feet tall. Yeah, but I care today. I care a lot today. I was well aware of height because I've been tall my whole life. Oh,

I'm secure about it. Right. I didn't realize men being tall and that being hot to me until, oh yeah, yeah. in high school. So he got tall and handsome and popular in high school.

But yeah. But that just didn't. Yeah, that just had no effect on me and high school. And honestly, I think that's why he liked me. Because my sister's a lesbian and I hate men. So in high school, we were the only two people that weren't swayed by him at all. Like he didn't move me at all. Yeah. And I think he liked that about me. I think he liked that. His looks didn't affect me in any way. Didn't make me treat him any differently. And he was annoying in high school. So there's that. Which he would agree with. And then we went to different colleges, dated other people and then we reconnected when I graduated and moved back home and he was like asking me to hang out and I was like for what because I was I tell this story a few times but I jokingly well I tell

the story jokingly but it was it is not a joke I was really mad at him for something I can't remember but so I wasn't talking to him for like two years and then he kept hitting me up constantly constantly constantly and then I finally caved and I was like sure we can go to lunch and then jokes on me I'm in love now so there you go I mean it's some of the best dating advice you can throw all day advice out the window and just do nothing. Just avoid them for two years. Oh, nonchalant speaks to them.

I mean, I could literally label all other dating advice on the floor. Oh, yeah. I'm a real boomerang kind of girl. I mean, that's, my fiance was in the DMs for two years. Yeah, literally. And then one day I was like, I guess. I'm horny. That's how you get married.

No, it really is. Did he have to kind of wear you down a little bit? Yeah, after a while, yeah. And I was completely ignoring him. And so, and we've talked about it now. And obviously, we laugh about it now. But I've asked him like, what made you keep coming back? because like,

because he did was not starving for pus. Like he could, he could get anybody. He's very good looking, very charming, very smart, very capable. So like,

and he's a very good person. Like, he's always been a really, really good person, very sweet person. He's just annoyingly handsome, like who fucking, well,

you both are. You're a very hot couple to care. Period. Thank you. But yeah. I think even at the time, like, I asked him that,

like, what made you keep coming back? And he was like, I honestly don't know. Like, and he told me too, like, something told me that I would regret it

for the rest of my life And he's like, and now I know I was right. And I was like, all right, not too much. Relax. Okay, I was right. One time in eight years. Okay, sure. Whatever.

We got a lot of questions about him, though. Oh, yeah. I mean, we said, like, what do you guys want to know about them? People want to know, like, how do you live at this intersection of I hate men? I see all this terrible behavior online. But I'm with a man. I'm marrying a man. And by the way, Ashley and I make fun of men, too.

But we have, like, great fathers and friends. Yeah. Most do. Most women who do hate men have great fathers, brothers and men. The bar is high. also for who to be around us. Yeah, so we do think there's like great men. Obviously, you found one so to Ashley.

But like, how do you live at that sort of like intersection of the two? I mean, I think it's a lot simpler than people think. I think people overcomplicated. It's just, you know I'm not talking about you. But it doesn't change the inherent fact that men are evil. That is true. Like man as a whole is evil. Like just as an entity, a general idea.

Men have inflicted violence and oppression on the world in ways that are irreparable. Like, it's okay if we say that out loud. It's okay if we say that men are inherently evil. It's like it's not all men, but for some reason, always a man. Every time something terrible happens, always a man, like 99% of the time. So I feel like it's a lot simpler than people may think. It's I don't hate my man. I hate most men.

And for me, I think given what men have done to me personally, to people I love, and the world as a whole, if they all start guilty and have to work their way to innocent, it's not really a big deal to me. I feel very, like, convicted in that. It's very like, if you're not awful, prove it. Quit talking about it and fucking do it. Because the men who complain that they really hate hearing like, oh, what about old men? Oh, old men, oh, men.

A lot of this, not a lot of action. Well, I feel the same way, I think, when people talk about white women who voted a certain way or have certain beliefs. And it's like, I want to be the best white woman I could be. But when you talk about those white women, yeah. It is not me.

I don't hold those beliefs so I'm not offended by it. Exactly. Like a good man is not offended by the I hate men rhetoric. They're like, that doesn't apply to me. It's a very hit dogs holler kind of thing for me. If it doesn't apply, let it fly. That's how I feel. When people talk about like and what's something I said at, I'm a straight woman, right?

I'm a straight cis woman. When they talk about straight cis women, when trans people talk about them, how they can be very harmful towards trans women, it doesn't hit me because I know I'm not one of those. So when you're talking really loud and you're getting very, upset at what I said what did I say that upset you and why that's a question you should be unpacking in therapy that's not a question you should be writing hate my comments like and also the men who argue with me about that or even women it's very rare that it's women but anyone who argues with me about that that that's so harmful to say I hate all men that's so harmful to say every time they say

that to me if I really were to dig in that person sucks ass every single time a hundred percent of the time all the time that person's awful that person is awful a hundred percent of the time, all the time. So like, what do you call it at that point, a pattern? I think some of it is internalized misogyny like you talk about. You know, women, listen, I think that like there's great men in the world. Internalized racism. All the things. Yeah, all those things. And you are definitely one of the more outspoken people that I've like come across in terms of your book. You call people out by name. You do it on Instagram and TikTok. And I mean, you really stand up for like women's bodies and LGBTQ rights. And I think a lot of

people want to feel more empowered to do that. I mean, people say, I remember this girl came up to me one night. I was at Ashley's Comedy Show and she was like, I could never do what you girls do, but thank you for doing it. Like I was somebody who had a podcast and she was like, how do you feel brave enough to talk about politics and things like that? And I'm like, but that's what we've dedicated to our lives too. So I guess I'm curious for you, like, how do you feel that bravery?

Seems like you've always been this. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yes. That's kind of how I feel. I just been like this. Yeah, yeah. But like, for people that aren't.

Like I think there's people that are like, I want to feel like I can say. something and be outspoken. So like you were born a certain way. Like how can other people like feel like that? I get that question a lot too. Like how do I stand up for myself? How do I handle hate or criticism or whatever the same way that I do? I like to tell people all the time. I know that I am the exception to the rule. Because like for a while I lived at a very like no fear. Like I had no fear as a child and a teen and that's not a good thing. It is okay to have a healthy dose of fear, especially to protect yourself. So I know not everyone is like me. Would I encourage people who are not like me if they're trying to learn how to become more confident in their decisions and how they speak up for themselves, whatever it may be? I always encourage them to start small. A lot of times when people are very passive and they let things happen a lot. Things like if they get your coffee order wrong, if they say your name wrong, you're just like, ah, it's all right. That's where it starts.

It starts at little things like that. If you start standing up for yourself and advocating for yourself in little ways like that, you start to build your own confidence because you're like, I matter. What I want matters. The things I like matter. Like my feelings matter. All of those things matter. When you start walking in the belief that they matter, even the most minuscule things,

like they said your name wrong, they called you the wrong name, they didn't say, excuse me, they got your order wrong. Like when you start, like, standing up for yourself that way,

I think naturally over time it starts to snowball into bigger decisions, like bigger ways that you can send it for yourself. If you can just rip the bandaid and do something crazy like me, feel free. But I don't encourage that

if that's not naturally who you are. I don't encourage that kind of cold plunge because it may backfire on you and then you won't know how to deal with it then. So I like to encourage them to start small most times. As far as being brave on the internet, I tell people all the time, like if you want to be a content creator because I do get questions like, how do I build a following? How do I do this? Do you care if you get hate? Don't do it. Like if the answer is yes, don't do it.

I tell people that all the time and I say that with all the love in the world. This job is not for everyone. If you really hate people commenting on every single thing on your body and your face from your head to your toes and everything you say always and forever, then I wouldn't do this. This is the worst job ever. If you really hate that, don't do it. But if you don't hate that and you can do it, I would say to just make peace with it. Like you, someone is going to hate you. Someone is going to write something mean. Someone is going to say something awful. It's just a natural born fact. My friend Emily Mariko, are you guys familiar? Yeah, I got into her because of the salmon bowls, obviously. Right, I love her. She's so great. I use her as an example when I answer this question a lot where I say like, Emily Mariko doesn't talk in her videos, never.

She never talks. She's at this point probably said a few words in some of her videos. But for the most part, she makes no noise, none at all. And she gets hate. Yeah. I walk into people's homes and swing on them. And if I were to be shocked that I got hate, I'd be a hypocrite. Right.

So like my point being, it doesn't matter, does it? Like, it doesn't matter. If you're her and you're just completely fucking mute the entire time, they're still going to write hate. If you're me, they're still going to write hate. So I encourage you to just do it. If you really want to do it, do it. Like make content, do it.

And nothing's really going to stop you. If you really want to do it and you feel like you have something important to say, something impactful to say, I think nothing's going to stop you, not even hate. You know what I mean? If no one's hating on you, you're just, you're not relevant. Exactly. Yeah. If you're doing it right, you're triggering something.

People even as of late hate on Beyonce. She was safe for so many years. now it's just like people are doing it's like you can't escape it's for no reason like that's it's and it's truly it's just the nature of yeah of humans like it is it is it just it is what it is but i'm someone who gets inspired by hate like i'm someone who like i crack it under my nose like those smelling salts and i'm like oh yes like that's that's what hate does to me i know that's rare i know not everybody's like me that's okay well you're you have like a comedic appeal obviously and we're like we're comedians i'm a stand-of

comedian and comedians eat that shit up. Like, first of all, when you're new, you're like, I've a hater. I've made it.

Like, people hate me and then they just take it and it does like fuel you. Yeah, for real. And it's like a blessing. To be able to take the hate and turn. I mean,

I read a, the meanest DM I've ever gotten. I read it last week. It's the real is blowing up of me reading the meanest shit some of this squirrels ever said to me. I was like, let's clip it.

Thank God. People like, I'm following you now. I love this podcast. Like people, it's just like, oh yeah. You're able to benefit from it.

Oh, absolutely. You're telling me, girl, my business stands on the shoulders of men who hate me. Yeah. Yeah, they are pillars in my business. I am grateful. I am grateful for you. Sure. I think you're going to laugh.

So does anybody ever say to you like, well, shouldn't we, I can't even say without laughing. It's just stupid. Shouldn't we like, shouldn't we coach men? Don't you ever want to like teach them how to be better? Like, what responsibility do you have to like teach men? And like, are you just like, I don't want to teach them anything. I want to help women help each other. Yeah, I mean, well, they didn't come out of my coochie, so it's not my fucking problem, is it?

Like, it's not my problem to, you want me to train grown men to care about women? No, that's how I feel about it. Right. I truly feel like you're a grown-up. Be a grown-up, right? I feel like sometimes the misconception about my content is that it's to solely get them, like, oh, all you do is roast men. That's what you do is you wrote. That's true.

That's part of what I do. That is true. There's a greater message and a greater objective at play, though, which is I'm empowering women and anyone else they harm. Men harm not just women. It's not just women that they inflict harm on. If you really are an intersectional activist in any way, you'll know that there's many different intersections that they violently oppress. It's not just cis women, cis straight women specifically, that they harm with their content, with their fucking jokes, with all their bullshit that they put online. So my goal, I don't give a fuck about the men that I fuck up. I don't know if that's hard to hear.

I don't care at all. I don't care about their feelings. I don't care about their livelihood. What the fuck? You think I care about what your life looks like after this? I don't. I don't care at all. What I care about is how people see me react to the shit you say online.

I want them to see how I react to it, how I don't internalize it, and I keep going forward. That's what I want people to see. They are nothing more than a pawn in my very large game. They don't mean shit to me. Why would they? Like why? And you know what's funny is a lot of these men attack me first or others. Right.

You started this shit. Yeah, you started it but you can't finish it. Right. You came to my job. Yeah, well, exactly. And it's always like, I've said this before too. It's insane to watch how quickly men develop empathy after they watch me eviscerate one. After they watch me fuck a dude up, all of a sudden they care about feelings.

All of a sudden they care about, well, what about how he feels? I don't give a fuck how he feels. Right. It's funny because when they ask me, do you ever care about the men that like, hurting their feelings, no. Uh-huh. Because ask them if they cared about mine. Totally.

They don't, right? Okay, so why is it? It's all a joke when he says it to me, but when I joke back, all of a sudden I'm attacking him, why is that? See, that's why it's like you're right there. Keep going. Unpack it, right?

The reason why is because of I'm a woman and the way I look like, I'm not just any woman either. I'm a tall woman, I'm a thick woman, I'm not a Eurocentric, beauty standard woman, and I'm indigenous on top of that. So all of these factors are playing a role in how they choose to disrespect me.

And I think that's another thing too is we infantilize men. We think like, oh, they just don't know any better. We're the same age. Like, fuck you mean. In fact, most of the men I make fun are older than me. Right.

So, like, what do you mean? Like, he's a baby that needs help, but I'm not. And I've said in a video before, too, that women are forced to develop empathy from a very young age. We're forced to because that's the role and the boxes that were shoved into when we're younger.

Men get to decide if they want to develop empathy. at a later time. If I want to be nice, I'll worry about it when I'm in my 20s. Like, they get to decide whether or not they give a fuck about other people. We don't have the choice. Yeah. So naturally speaking, no, I don't really give a fuck when men, like, to teach them, to instruct them.

And then on a very superficial level, if anyone can give me just one example, we're speaking to a bigot in a nice way, has changed their viewpoints, you go ahead and you let me know. If you guys ever find one, I'll hang my head up forever. How's that? I'll fucking put my jersey in the rafters and I can retire. Right. And also it's like, again, you're a grown up and if you actually cared, if you cared about the harm that you've caused as a man, as a white man,

misogyny, all this, then you'd educate yourself. I mean, it's the same, when you talk about race, it's like a white person being like, well, please educate me. And it's like, educate yourself. Yeah. You read a book. Exactly. You are an adult.

Emotional labor. It's put on women. It's put on people of color. It's put on gay people. It's put on trans people. It's the emotional labor and toll. So in addition to the ignorance and the oppression. I suffer. I also have to hold your hand while I explain to you why it's bad. And also do men

listen to women who hate women? Like if men hate women, men listen to women, no, obviously not. So the men I'm talking to hate women. That's really at the very center of it. It's they hate us. They're attracted to us, but they don't like us and they don't love us. Like they just, they hate us and they want to subdue us. So I don't play that shit. So I always say if you want to be talked to in a nice, gentle way, and handled in a way that's like, hey, this is why you shouldn't say that. Then I wouldn't attack me. I'd attack somebody else.

I wouldn't attack because that's not how I handle it. So I think respect begets respect. If you don't give it to me, you're not getting it from me. It's pretty simple. I know you'd have a good answer to this. I mean, I knew your vibe was going to be like, let's teach the men. Well, the men need to be teaching each other. Exactly.

That's like not our job. And I think that's like, or die off. I don't give a fuck. You could go. Die off. They might. Don't procreate. Die off.

Well, you could go both ways. at this right? If you're like, I've identified this problem in men, so you can either coach men or coach women. And I think you talk about it in your writing more of like, let's as women stop pitting each other against each other. Yeah, absolutely. I'm heeding with each other. And like, let's find a way to have

confidence and also not rip each other down. Yeah, absolutely. We had a guest on Elise Lunan and her quote was if women can just get on side with each other, like the men won't be a problem. And I'm like, it's so true. It's true. And that is another facet of patriarchy.

to turn us against each other. Which is another reason why, like, in my platform specifically, I've had women be very awful to me. I've had women be very bigoted, very racist to me, like say really terrible shit to me. And I've held them accountable, but not in the same way that I make fun of men. I don't make fun of women the same way I make fun of men.

And the reason for that is very intentional. I could very well do that. I don't. And the reason being because I feel like that's a facet of patriarchy, it's to get us to attack each other's looks, to attack things that we can't change, to do that to each other. And it's like while we're squabbling amongst ourselves, they get further ahead.

So I'm not going to feed into that narrative. But at the same time, I'm not going to let you slow down my ship either. So I can't save you, but I'm not going to ether you. Like I do them. I'm just going to leave you and you. Good luck with that. That's why I'm always like, yeah, go over to them and see if they treat you as an equal. Because the reality is they see us both the same.

Well, that's where like cool girl persona and pick me girls. That's where it comes from is this internalized misogyny and patriarchal. of like this is what men want me to be. I'm going to alienate women around me to be like that. And this like cool girl persona, you hit on in your book exactly what I think of, which is the monologue in Gone Girl. Yes, where she's just talking about

how she just like turned herself upside down. And like these women don't, it doesn't exist. Yeah, it's crazy when you, yeah, when you watch it back through that lens especially, it's like, damn, she's hilarious for that. When I rewatch Gone Girl, I'm like, she's hilarious. She went to that link because she said, you're going to fuck a 22-year-old on.

me, I'm going to frame you for murder. Right. She's so real for that. She's so me. Rosenemann Pike is so me. But yeah, it's exactly, it's exactly right. Like, in that monologue, she says, like, the craziest thing about all of this is that this woman doesn't exist, like, the woman that they conjure. And it's like, we're chasing ghosts at that point. Like, we're chasing this ideal that if I become that girl, then I'll be safe from harm.

And that's just not how it works. Like, if I become the perfect girl for every man ever, then I'll never have to suffer at the hands of oppression. That's not true. Not true at all. How do we stop competing with each other? I mean, I don't know the answer to that, but first of all, go to therapy. I highly encourage people to go to therapy. If you can and you want to, I highly encourage. I think more than anything, it's just focusing on you, like focusing on what makes you uniquely yourself. I think it's getting rid of the male gaze entirely, like the way you look at things, the way you look at yourself. I think the biggest key, honestly, is just unpacking all of your internalized biases. That's homophobia, transphobia,

homophobia, misogyny, like the big ones, racism, also things like fat phobia, ableism. Like, when you unpack all of that shit, it's kind of scary when you do it because you think to yourself, like, when I was going through that phase and I was unpacking a lot of shit and I first started going to therapy, I started thinking about my career aspirations when I was in college. Like I was thinking, I was like, if I get to the center of this and I find out I was only doing that for men, I'm going to kill myself. Like I was like, no way, I can't do that. I can't do that.

Like if I found out the only reason I wanted to work in football was because I wanted to impress man. Oh my God. Oh my God. That's actually what I was asking you earlier. Yeah. I was like, that's actually what I actually meant. And you're like, my dad played in the NFL. Okay, relax guys.

That's why I was like, oh my God. Like when I was unpacking that, like really unpacking it, it's horrifying. Because then you start to think like the male gaze is so perverse. It can go to things like how you talk, how you walk, how you dress, how you do your hair, how you do your makeup, how you do your nails. what you like, what you listen to, what you watch on the TV, what you read, like, all of that is so perversely affected by the patriarchy and by what men like and what men deem popular and men think are cool, what girls like, whatever. So I think when you unpack that for real,

there is no competition amongst women. Like, you don't feel it at all because there's nothing to compete for. There's no man at the end of the rainbow. There's no like, oh, the grand prize for hating all women is I get a man. Right. Also, some fucking. fucking prize and trade in my girls for that. I'd like to see what that man looks like. Oh, God, no. I mean, if you were a woman listening to this and you catch yourself writing a hate comment or a DM to another woman who's just living, who isn't Marjorie Taylor Green and like,

you know, it's like a woman who's just cooking or doing whatever, you know, ask yourself why you're triggered and just start there. Absolutely. Like, we see these messages come in and we have it pretty good. People are, we love our audience. Oh, my God. they're amazing, but the people creep in, and especially something goes viral, forget it. It's over.

You're like, who are you people? Right. But it's just like, there's part of it's like mentally ill. And you're like, I want you to figure this out. I'd like, as a woman to woman, I would love you not to act like this. Yeah, like empathy. And that's our empathy speaking when we're like, that's really sad. Like, that's really terrible, like that you feel like you have to do this in order

to get attention. I've written to women before, like, and when they've written really awful comments to me, I'm like, I've written back to her to girls before where I've been like, I hope he saw this. Whoever you're hoping sees this comment, I hope he sees it. And I hope you get a text back, girl. I hope he reaches out. Girl, I hope you does this. I hope your day is going all right. I hope you got it. I hope you got it. I hope you got it. I'm rooting for you. You

still rooting for you even though you're not rooting for me? Shit. But that's how much I love women. Right. But you're right though about that. I think that's a great point. I've talked about that before too. Sometimes envy and jealousy. And they're very, again, they're being affected by Patriot. It's all tied together, unfortunately. But I think a lot of times when we're honest with ourselves about why we feel the way we do about women. So like if women are existing, even online or even in your own personal life, like there's women. And I know we've all had this.

When we're going to be like, I don't know, I don't really like her. But you have no real reason to not like her. I think that feeling is very common in girlhood, right? Sisterhood. And I think what's important is to stop that thought in its tracks and ask yourself, why don't not like her? Yep. Do I not like her for a valid reason or do I not like her because I'm a hater?

And I think if you admit I'm being a hater. Sometimes if you say it out loud, like you have the thought, and you're like, that's me being a hater, I'm being a hater. When you diagnose it like that, it stops coming. Because you're like, I have no reason to feel that way. But I'm feeling that way. Why? Probably because the world has conditioned me to not like women who dress a certain way,

talk a certain way, act a certain way. And that's not how I feel. That's conditioning. I think when you start, like, it sounds so archaic and so childish. But like when you do it out loud, I think it helps a lot. And if you are a hater, keep it to yourself for the group chat. Right. They won't, but we'll be able to tell the difference.

That's the difference of like a stable person and unstable person. Yeah, yeah. I can hate somebody and I'm just going to tell you about it. Talk my shit. I'm not in their comments. And when you have good friends, like good sound walls, when you bounce shit off them, sometimes they're like, I don't know. And then you're like, I'm being here.

I'm being here. I'm being here. It really hurts my feelings. So I say, I'm going to actually coming to Ashley, like, once a year. And she's like, I feel like, I feel like, I feel so attacking by you right now. So you're calling me a fucking pick me. We'll check each other on that. That's a good thing.

Like a couple times a year and it really hurts my feelings. I'm like, I thought we were exactly the same all the time. Okay. I know. Sometimes my sister and I were talking about something the other. I forget. I brought something up and she goes,

oh no, I'm being a hater. I'm being a hater. I'm being a hater. I know I'm being a hater. I know I'm a bad move, so I'm going to be a hater. We were laughing and then we work through it.

And I think like that's sisterhood. Like it's truly like bouncing it off each other. And then you're like, am I being nuts? and then your girl's like, yeah. I like that. Just acknowledging you're just hating. Yeah.

It's fun. And when you do it and you say it out loud, it's kind of like when you say things out loud and you're like, I sound real dumb when I say that. Okay, good thing I said it out loud. Now I'm never going to think it again. It's checking yourself. It's accountability. I think feeling those feelings is human.

I think the way you act on them determines whether or not you're a good person. Absolutely. And I listen, it's fine for you to think what somebody's got going on is stupid. I think plenty of people have said it's going on is stupid. Very human. And I have to also ask myself like, is this. it's jealousy. Like, telling yourself, I'm not jealous is not going to make you less jealous.

Absolutely. You know, you meet girls that are just like not that friendly, not that nice. And I'm just like, you seem a little insecure. Yeah. And then you feel bad for them and then you send them on their way, right? I feel like there's a difference between jealousy and envy. Like, I think jealousy, there's something really malicious inside of it. Like, it's like a, I want that and you shouldn't have it.

I should have it. Envy, I think is like, damn, that looks awesome. I wish I had that too. And I think when you kind of shift your perspective on how you look at stuff, like, If it's something like, I wish I had that, when you look at it from more of an envious perspective, it's more inspirational and aspirational, then jealousy. And jealousy is more deep rooted in evil. It's like, it's a very, like, sinister feeling that can grow and manifest.

And I think that is what makes people really ugly. Like it's jealousy, sinister type energy. Yes. And most people that you feel like this about don't need to be in your life. If you were following somebody on the internet and they make you feel a certain way, unfollow them. They will disappear. They will cease to exist.

Nothing feels better. And then if you can't unfollow people, them, just mute them. There's definitely been people in my life I've muted where I think they have like so much, for me, it's not looks. It's like career wise where I'm like, I want that so bad. I want like, you know, and if you have to mute somebody for a little bit, that's fine too. And that's you self-correcting, right? So you're like, you're taking care of yourself, but you're not attacking anyone. You're not like unjustly attacking anyone. You're just kind of being human. It's normal. I love the difference between jealousy and envy. You're so right. It's

like, I don't want you to have that because I want that and there's not enough to go around. Absolutely. That's a scarcity mindset and women. Exactly. But the envy can guide you. Right. And like, why do I feel this way? Let me do what I can do. And it can inspire you to try. If she has it, I can have it.

Exactly. Look at us. Okay. There's this chapter of the book I loved. It's one of my favorite chapters in the book and you call it the fallacy of the leftover women. Can we talk about that theory and what that term comes from? Sure.

Absolutely. I actually heard that term from one of my best friends from college, who's still my friends of this day. Her name's Christina Yen. Shout out Tina. Shout to Christina. But she's Chinese, and she was telling me there is a term in China where they talk about leftover women. And they're women after 30 who are not married or don't have children.

And I was like, 30, that's young. Me turning 30. I'm like, that's so young. What are you talking about? And so I like to talk about it in the book because I think it's something that can transcend culture, obviously, because patriarchy is in every culture ever, unfortunately. And so it speaks to this idea that women have to settle so that they're not left over. so they're not like alone.

Like they have to make peace with anything really because it's like, well, you don't want to be left out. And so I like to tell people like that I made peace with dying alone, right, a long time ago. Like dying alone is so dramatic because I like to differentiate between alone and lonely, right? Because I feel like feelings of loneliness are very human, whereas whether or not you're truly alone is subjective. It depends on your situation. And I think when I realized I was like, I'm not. actually alone. I'm just lonely. I yearned for companionship. I think that's a very human feeling

when I was still single. And this was right before I started dating my now fiancee. But I made peace with living life unpartnered and being a leftover woman because in my head I was thinking like I would rather live a beautiful, successful, amazing life filled with people who love me, care about me and want to see me succeed, then just settle for what's just okay in terms of events just so I don't have to be alone, just so I don't have to be single. It's kind of like when you're in high school

and you're like, oh, it's so lame to go to prom by yourself, right? Like, oh, I can't go by myself. I have to go with a date. And then you end up going with someone you fucking hate, which I did two years in a row. Right. So it's like, it wasn't even worth it. And one of them was the worst date I've ever had in my entire life.

So I thought to myself, I wish I went alone. I wish I went with my friends. I wish, and I feel like that's a really good metaphor. for life. It's like being a leftover woman is a fallacy. It's not, it's not a real thing. It's something that the patriarchy has created and devised to basically manipulate you into settling because instead of men getting better, they'd rather you come down a little bit more. They're like, God, come and meet me where I'm at. I don't want to go up there. It's too high. And would they? I mean, I've been served a lot of TikToks recently, like the male epidemic, the male loneliness

epidemic and settle and lower their... All they do is complain about everything. their standards. And I think we've been sold this idea at a certain age you have to settle or be alone. And like those aren't the only two routes. I mean, I just, I'm almost 40. I think people probably have thoughts about me being single in this age.

I feel great. Yeah. I sometimes just sit alone at my house and look around the walls and think, you are such a bad bitch for buying this. And I don't, my options are not settle or be alone because I'm never lonely. And I accept a life where I'm not lonely. And yeah,

love a part of like fits and all this and fucks me really well. It makes me laugh. But like, I don't subscribe to that. So that's not me. But I think we've sold people this idea that you must settle at a certain age and I'm not buying it. And I think it's good to find role models. Totally.

I think Tracy Ellis Ross is like this shining example. Love her. I just listened to her whole interview with Michelle Obama and her brother. They host a podcast together. And it's just like find people like that to look up to. Yeah. And does she look unhappy? She's killing it.

And she's like, this is so much better than being with the wrong person. Are you kidding? Yeah. Being with the wrong person for a woman ruins your life. Yeah. It's your life expectancy. It causes you, like, mental instability. I mean, it's just so much better to not settle and be with your friends and have your hobbies and your pets and do all that shit. And be yourself and live your life.

Absolutely. Because we've also been sold this idea that, like, you get into a relationship and then, like, life's just over. Being in a relationship's hard. Oh, shit. You're telling me. It's really hard to compromise with another person and figure out their schedule and fit them into your life. And I don't have to do that any days of my life. I love it.

There's a lot of good things about being by yourself. I think we're like, we got in a relationship. It's finished. I finished all the tasks. And it's like, no, that's really hard too. Now you've got to be in that relationship. You got to be with somebody. You actually want to do those things for.

Relationship's worth having our hard work. Like, that's what they are. And I feel like the male loneliness epidemic thing. I've known about that for a while. I was actually kind of shocked to see it circulating recently because I was like, blown up. I was like, I thought we all collectively. We didn't give a fuck.

Was that just me? My bad. So I made my choice about that a while ago. But what makes me laugh about that, that is very true. The reason why it's happening is because women are like, oh, I don't need you to get a bank account. Yeah, fuck off. Like women don't need men for anything, not even to procreate anymore. Women are buying compounds and cohabitating with their best friends.

They're literally buying duplexes and moving their friends in next door. And they're having children and raising them as like a family, right? Like just friends, partnership, whatever. And I was actually going to make a TikTok about this. So this is perfect. But have you all watched Love on the spectrum? Yeah. The most recent season.

I'm started. I'm not fully through it. The most recent season is really good. What I noticed about that show is that it's very clear to me that misogyny is taught. It's taught at home. It's what you sociologically absorb because all of the men on that show that are either their friends or they're dating, right, to find love, when they talk about likes and interest, like who they're attracted to, like who they're trying to find in a partner,

the things they say are like, do they like the same things I like? Are they nice, right? do they laugh at my jokes notice how none of it has to do with looks i think at the very most it's like hair color and even then they're like i don't know i could do a blonde who knows yeah one club was but 99% of the time it's like but do you like the train like at least like the train i love the right they don't give a fuck right they don't they're not factoring that because the only thing that matters is what's inside to them and there's even a part in the new season where they're talking to perry who i love and uh she loves the train right that's her whole thing and she has like friends

who are men, who are straight, who are in her little rail fanway group. And they're talking like, oh, did anyone want to date her when you joined the group? And he said, oh, yeah, all of us did because she's so awesome. She loves the train. And then he's like, well, what happened is she goes, well, she told me she likes girls more. So then I was like, okay, well, then we'll just be friends. Have you ever heard a straight man say that in your fucking life? Have you ever heard a straight man say that in your fucking life?

Never. Never in a million fucking years, never. I have never in my life heard a man say that. Yeah. Like very convicted and honest. Like he was just like, yeah, so I just figured we'll just stay friends. Never in a million years have I ever heard that. And it's truly because they see them as people.

They see them as they see women as humans who are equal to them. And they're like, the only thing that matters to me is if we like the same things. And you don't interrupt me when I talk. That's all I care about. Right. And so I think that's a perfect example of how like it's almost as if it doesn't fucking matter what you look like. This male loneliness epidemic thing is being fueled by red pill men who say that women only like

men who are over six feet and have a lot of muscles and have a lot of money and all this fucking bullshit, which every time they say that, I'm like, well, clearly you have none of those things. So that's a skill issue. But past that, like, I don't think it has anything to do with that. I think you're just awful and women aren't willing to eat it anymore. And that's why you're lonely. And we have had Scott Galloway, who speaks about this a lot. We've had him on the show and our audience really loved the episode because I feel like he's

trying to make men be better. And he's like one of the few, he talks about the male loneliness epidemic. in facts and that this is how men are feeling. I'm just sharing with you guys. I'm not sympathizing with them. It's also not saying women should fix it. No, he's a really,

he really like lifts women up, but I like that he's just like, guys, get your shit together. Yeah, it's all internal. You could fix that. Get off your phone. Get off Reddit.

Like he, when he was on our podcast, he was like, I coach men into like being better men. Yeah. And I'm like, we need more of that. I mean,

let them do that on their own. Well, do you see how like a good parallel to that too is like when men and women have very tumultuous breakups, women are always like what could I have done better like what did he not like in me what did he not seen me what do men fucking say in that red pill she's a bitch yeah what are they saying they're saying oh she doesn't want to be with me she doesn't like me because of this she must be crazy yeah do you yeah do you yeah women are constantly over policing like they're like I must have been too much

I must have asked for too much I must have done this and men on the other end of it are going yeah she sucked yeah she did this yeah she did that none of it is self-reflection no all of it is projection So that's the fucking problem. It's almost like you could fix it, but you won't because you want women to do it. Like it always comes back to women. Women need to fix it. Women need to make sure I'm not alone. Women need to make sure I feel handsome.

Women need to make, oh God. Yeah, I added to my list of shit I have to do for you guys. Do you remember years ago? So this is somebody I used to date and we became friends. And then he and I were speaking about somebody he had been dating and she didn't want to date him anymore. And he kept saying to me like, I think something's wrong. I think she needs therapy.

I think she's going to regret this. And I think she needs help. And I was like, you know that I dated you, right? Like, you know, I can tell you why she doesn't want to be with you. Oh, you don't need a doctor. I can tell you. She's not suffering from some mental illness. And you know what I think is so fascinating about the male loneliness epidemic?

There will never be a phrase, the female loneliness epidemic. Oh, no, it's called leftover women. That's what it is. That's right. It's true. We coin it in a bad way. But women who are single are going to go off, they're going to make friend groups, they're going to travel, they're going to find hobbies and interest.

They're going to get a better body, a better job, more money. Like, women, just rise up. The glow up is crazy afterwards. I feel like if they told us there was an epidemic, we'd be like, I can't be clear enough. We're fine. Who said that? We're doing great. What's your source? Because there is headlines like that. Women are staying single longer, getting married later, not having kids, crazy. You know what they call them cat ladies. Yeah. That's why I said, they call us cat ladies. And they say, these lonely poor, like Taylor Swift? Yeah. Yeah, the color. Childless cat lady. Yeah. That sounds like a badge of honor to me.

I have been single forever. There is, I'm the least lonely person I've ever met. Yeah. Most women are, and one thing I always say about marginalized people in general, like, one thing we know how to do is fucking build community. Like, build community and build community fast. Like, there's just something to be said about the way women love. Like the way women love platonically, romantically, familially, all of it, they love to

a degree that men could never understand. They could never. They don't even know their friend's birthdays. Get the fuck out of here. I was like, I know my first. friends preferences of coffee taste flavor candy fucking you name it bitch i know it about my girls men are like oh yeah i don't know i think his birthday's like june i just get the fuck out of here i want to say there's there are exceptions of the role if i'm sure you found one i'm like thinking about

my fiance i just feel really lucky i found like a good one oh yeah me too he probably knows his friend's birthdays more than i do yeah my my man yeah that's thoughtful and that's what i'm saying i'm saying men are lonely not just because of romance it's community like they don't have any because they're all about this conquering mindset. It's all this like, I'm the only one. It's just me. You know what men got really into those lion memes? And they were like, the lone lion doesn't worry about what sheep think.

What the fuck are you talking about? Get a job. It's like, go make a friend. What happened to the pack? I was supposed to be a wolf pack? Yeah, it was wolves for a while. Then it was loud lions. It's like, I think about that joke where it's like, it was like a video of men moshing.

You know, men like to mosh at certain things. And it says, like men created moshing just so they could touch each other like in a way that makes them feel seen like they want to hug so bad that's what i think about the dapp when they dab when they dap each other up i'm like you guys want to hug so bad but you won't but it's crazy sometimes i think the younger generations are are getting there so i agree with you i hope so i just i don't men hugging a lot more these days yeah they hope so i just i don't get to each other on the mouth i just do they have a tote bag i bet they do those are always nice guys

just kidding i just kidding i just i'm not a male just certainly in any way, but like, I don't think that men are raised to value the characteristics you're talking about. I do think hopefully it's getting better. But like, I'd say this all the time. Like, I was raised to like, go make my own money and value myself and have a job and go out into the world and like be my own person. And at the same time, we did not teach men to value women who do this. And we did not teach them to value things like sharing and emotions. And I do think it's getting better? Do you see how we're intellectualizing and empathizing that? They don't do that for us, do they?

Like that's my point right there. It's like even in our phase where we're recognizing there is a stark difference. That is true. That's the irony of it all. Patriarchy hurts all of us. It doesn't just hurt women. It hurts men too. The irony is if you got with me, if you stood beside me, we could kill this shit

altogether and all of us would be happy. We'd all be free at that point. Because if one person's not free, none of us are. And that's the whole fucking point. It's like the men who are counteractive to this movement of understanding how harmful patriarchy is they're not just hurting women and others. They're hurting themselves too. They're constricting themselves and they're handicapping themselves and it's and it's awful and it's terrible. And I do think there are some straight men. There's very few that I agree should have a

podcast. There are a couple that I'm okay with. I've given a slight probationary period pass. I want to know who these people are. I forget his name. He's on TikTok though. You're like, they don't even got, they don't name. You see how there's so few. They're so fucking few. I don't know they don't even know their names. I'll have to think of it. I'll think of it in post. but there are a couple men who I know do podcasts where they solely talk about feelings and they want to talk to other men about feelings and what it means to feel and what it means to communicate and what it means to address problems. That's why I always encourage me to go to fucking therapy.

Go to therapy and fix it. If you hate your life and you hate the outcomes in it, you have the tools to fix it. Like you have the tools to do it. The difference is they always blame women. Women are like, okay, I blame myself most times. But other times I'm going to try and fix it or find community. they just find someone else to blame. That's the biggest difference between us, I think.

But yeah, that's all right, though. Because the few that are good are going to make it buy, and that's all that matters. And the rest of them, we're going to die out. That's a great place to end it. Perfect. On hope. This is so fine.

Yeah, this is great. I really loved your book. I really encourage people to buy it and read it. Thank you guys. Continue your content in general. But I just... Thank you for having me. You really don't hold back,

and you should be really proud of yourself because I think a lot of people do because I think it's scary to speak out for any marginalized group because you do get attacked on the internet. You are so loud about it. So just congrats you. You're really doing some great word. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for your time.

Of course. And tell everybody where they can find you. I mean, they probably already know, but shout out your handle. Oh, yes. You can find me at Drew Off Wallow on literally everything. And then I have two shows. I have the comment section which is Spotify exclusive. And then I also have a show with my sister called 288 girls.

And yeah, you can find me everywhere. I'm poison. I mean. I haven't stopped itching in years. bummer. Yes. And you guys can get the book, wherever you get your books.

And you can find us at Girls Gotta Eat.com. Girls Got to Eat Podcast on Instagram and TikTok. I'm Ash Hess. Raina is reina. dot Greenberg. Subscribe on YouTube. Share this episode with a friend.

Get the book. And we will see you guys Thursday. Have a good week, guys. Bye.