Girls Gotta Eat - Is Love F*cked? feat. Author Mark Manson

Episode Date: April 29, 2019

We convinced Mark Manson (life guru/bestselling author of The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck) to sit down and answer the question "Is love f*cked?" (Spoiler alert: It doesn't have to be.) We discuss the current hellscape of dating and how both men and women should navigate it, expressing your feelings and getting out the gray area, and whether love is enough to sustain a relationship. We also have him "Mansplain" some hot topics like when to sleep with someone and the reason men ghost then resurface. Also on the agenda: Ashley's new fantasy and Rayna's apartment drama. Enjoy! Visit MarkManson.net for articles, courses, and to purchase his books, and follow him on Instagram @MarkMansonNet. Follow us @GirlsGottaEatPodcast and check our website for tour dates and merch. Thank you to our partners for this episode: Brumate: Go to Brumate.com and use code GGE for 15% off your first order. OpenFit: Get a special, extended 30-day free trial membership to OpenFit by texting GGE to 303030. ThirdLove: Go to thirdlove.com/gge to find your perfect fitting bra, and get 15% off your first purchase. Ritual: Get 10% off your first 3 months at ritual.com/gge. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I think it's about being explicit of what you feel. With your nudes. Good. Yeah. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Welcome back to our stupid podcast. I've got a great episode for you guys today. We have Mark Manson on the show.

He is a self-help. That's a hard word to say. Self-help author of the subtle art of not giving a fuck. He also has a new book coming out. We're going to talk about some tough love advice. I like him so much. I've been like an OG fan from like 2013. I had no idea that you like went to him on his website.

You'd read his articles. I'm like from his blog days. I'm like a big fan. But the blog is fantastic. And the articles are great. Right. Like that was fuck yes or no. I will talk about it.

But yeah, this was like a huge deal for us. Yeah. So we have a great episode for you guys today. All right. I need to talk about something. Okay. So obviously last week was the day that I was going to to watch Beyonce Homecoming. I've obviously watched it multiple times. Raina just watched it today.

It's the first time Ashley said to me, I won't bother you while you're doing this. I said, you need to focus. Yeah. That's the most epic performance I've ever seen in life. Obviously, I don't need to tell you guys how amazing Beyonce is. She's just, you know, the biggest icon of our time. It's whatever. But that homecoming was, it was so shook by it. I just loved what she did. I loved, like, the tribute to the HBCUs and all the women on stage, like, all different sizes. We were just talking about this. It was just like the most inclusive, amazing performance. And I still, just can't get over it. I've been listening to the album nonstop, whatever. Clearly, I don't need to tell you guys that I'm so obsessed with the homecoming. So I got this DM, and I never knew

I had such a fantasy until I got this DM. Are you ready? This girl DM me. She says, first off, I love the podcast, but really I just had to share this with someone I think would appreciate as much as me. It's a stranger, okay? To be clear, it's not my friend. Don't know her. Never matter. I watched Beyonce's homecoming this weekend while my boyfriend went down on me. living my best life. What? She's a real one. I mean,

did he go down on her to the beat? I mean, hopefully. How does she not, like, gyrate to the beat while he was going down. I was so proud and turned on. And so I wrote, oh, my God, all caps.

Oh, my God, marry him with a B emoji, you know. But, you know, I don't even really care about getting married anymore, but I still was like, yeah, lock that guy down. But that guy, yes. And she goes, working on it.

And she goes, I send him an email. with the types of rings I like. Subject line, hotline, bling. I love this bitch. This girl is so cool. What's her name? Oh man.

What is her name? Raquel. Oh my God, Raquel. You are a real one. You are. Your relationship is perfect. I don't even know how you allowed to. Okay.

Beyonce documentary is like one of the few things. I like, I felt it in my stomach. Like I just felt like, I mean, the amount of work that went into this performance, the hundreds of people and the months it took to eat.

even just get this together is so crazy. I like felt it in my whole body. So like, yeah, if you get a guy to go down. And I had multiple girlfriends that, whatever, if you're not a Beyonce fan, you don't have to love Beyonce's music, but you do have to admit that she's the greatest performer of all time. Also, do not slide to my DMs. This is not up for a debate.

I don't care. Just keep your bouncing negativity elsewhere. I'm not here for it. I'll put you on blast and let the beehive come for you. Anyway, I had a lot of girlfriends that they said that they were watching it and their husbands or boyfriends walked in and were. like, wait, wait, I wanted to watch this. Like, numerous that he was like,

they were like, their husband or their boyfriend was like, no, wait, why didn't you wait for me? What kind of man would not, if you can't appreciate 100 plus people on stage all dancing to the same rhythm. Women in plus, I've never seen plus size dancers like that. I know. All over the stage. And just Beyonce herself, mother of three.

What I love so much about it, and this is the final thing I'll say, is that to me, this was the first time I think Beyonce has been humanized like this. Our other documentary, kind of, but she's like, people think she's like not real. She's so perfect that she's a fucking robot. And I feel like to show her struggling to like hit the moves,

to show her like, I'm hungry. I can't eat. Like I'm literally starving to get back into my like goal weight to be able to perform. And I had a C-section and I just am like struggling as a mother with like mom guilt and I'm trying to breastfeed. And I feel like I'm not there for my kids and I'm hungry and I can't dance like I used to. And like to watch her go through that and be like I will never push myself like this again. It was so humanizing and you never see that side of her.

Ever. And so to me, that was like, there's not a ton of that. It's mostly just the whole performance. But I still was like, that's what I love so much because I'm like, she's not a real person. She can't be. There's a robot in there. And so finally I was like, she's real. No, she's never.

I mean, the two of them, neither of them humanized themselves at all. I get it. Like, I wouldn't want to either. But, yeah, I mean, I would never want to meet her. I love that for, like, mothers to see that. You know, her, like, being so open of like, I'm having a hard time doing my career. and being there for my kids and for my husband. That's what I loved.

And obviously, just what she does for women, women of color. I mean, oh, God, I can't get enough of it. So if you guys haven't seen it's on Netflix called Homecoming, check it out, watch it multiple times of your girlfriends. Get ready to dance. I danced through it. Okay. I'm glad you liked it.

I have one more thing to say, but I'm going to give you the floor because I have a dating app thing I want to talk about. That's funny. Well, I just want to tell you a little anecdote. Just speaking of watching the documentary in my apartment building, I'm going to get kicked out of my apartment building. What? I've gotten two notifications in the last three days from management.

What? The first one was like, we know that you've been on the roof. Please do not go there again because it's under construction. But the second one, I get kicked off the roof with you. Yes, you did. The doorman shot up 18 stories just to tell us to get out on the call. And I was like, can you wait, sir? And you're like, Ashley, can't speak to the super that way.

And I was like, we'll be down as soon as we're done with this. But then, so I got an email about that from the management company. gnarked on me. What a nerd? And then, okay, so I don't ever do drugs, pot. I don't ever smoke pot. You're not against it. I don't care about people to drug.

I did tons of drugs in my life. I just, I don't smoke weed. I just don't ever smoke weed. So the other night, I was like, I'm going to smoke weed. So I'm like at my apartment the other night and with my friend, we want to like do some pot. Like where are we to get it? Nerds. So I send my prettiest friend to go get some pot from the dude in my building.

Okay, well, it was not me. It was not me. Not your prettiest friend. She's prettier than me. It's fine. So we secure the drugs from my neighbor that I hooked up with. And then we smoke like a little bit of pot in my room. And the next two nights I smoked like three hits, three puffs out of a bowl.

You did? Yeah, packed a bowl. Yeah, packed a bowl. No, you did it. Yeah, I've been smoking pot in my. No. I got an, what? What are you about to say?

I got an email from the management company. No, shut up. Multiple residents have reported instances. of secondhand marijuana smoke. You did not. Raina, you were fucking lying right now. No. No.

Can I get that out of the building? I am not okay at this story. I live in a Manhattan building. I took four hits of weed at midnight. It took longer for them to write the email and report me than it did for the smell from the four puffs weed just to clear out. This is my favorite thing. ever happened. Everyone knows how hard it was for you to even get into that building in the first

place. You don't smoke weed. Ever. You do it once. You get a violation from management and you've got from this guy that you hooked up with. He definitely narked me out. What? I mean, I sent my friend up to his apartment for drugs. I didn't even go. Hey, we slept together like a week ago. I'm going to send my friend to your apartment for drugs on like a Tuesday. Also, I feel like people are piecing this together. We have not talked about the guy that you slept with in your building, but surprise guys. Ryan slept with the guy in her building, what, three weeks into living there? And they're like, wait a minute. She was talking about her Buffy comforter getting a beating a couple weeks ago.

People are probably like, it's all starting to come together. Yeah, and like they specifically said, so I'm not going to say what letter of my apartment, but they said in the line of apartments that are that letter, that's where it was smelled. Like it came up in the vents from that letter apartment. Oh my God. So just like, get over it. What are you doing? It's 11, it's 12.

clock at night. I can't take four hits a weed in my building. Who are you that you reported me? I'll tell you what, though. I smell one whiff of cigarette smoke. I'll write a letter. I hate it. I hate smelling cigarette smoke more than anything. Like it comes, it just comes through the windows. But if I get a little bit of weed in my apartment, I'm like, ooh, I always smell in the hallway. So of course, I respond. Take a whiff, y'all. Stop being nerds. Fucking nerd. So I wrote back. I have never smoked cigarettes or anything else. No, stop it. You gave like a Bill Clinton. Like, I didn't. Dunhale statement.

Nor have I ever. Funny. Favorite story. Secondhand smoke. The title of the... No, it's not. That's the subject line. Subject line.

Secondhand smoke. I've never ever smoked in this apartment. Cigarettes or otherwise. I appreciate the message, but I can assure you whatever the smell, it's not coming from my apartment. Oh, my God. Yeah. You liar.

I'm such a liar. Now you're... First you smoke pot, then you start lying. A whole new person. Crack. Crack. Well, you've done that. Yeah, well, that guy was probably like, she's fucking sending her friends up here. I'm narking her out. He didn't narc you out. He's cool. Maybe. I don't know. I barely know the guy. He's just been inside of me, but I don't know anything else about him. Barely know his last name. This is something funny that's been happening to me on dating apps.

So I, when we did our Philly shows, I wore jerseys. I like, I embraced the team. Those are my teams. I wore fly Sixers and Phillies. And the picture I took with the last night with the Sixers jersey is like very cute. Yeah. And, you know, they're in like the playoffs. And I post it, I changed my hinge. It's a great pick, you know. And I just thought guys would like it because it's sports, you know.

They've been asking me a lot of stuff about the Sixers. I have nothing to say. Oh, my God. They like throw a player at you. Like, what do you think so-and-so is going to do in the play? And you got to Google it. So today this guy goes, Doug. Ashley, good morning.

So how far are the Sixers going to? ago. I was like, no idea, Doug. And this other guy, this guy, he goes, you guys pulled off a close one against the Nets the other day. Have you been to many Philly sports games this year? Like, people, totally, we have season tickets. We have season tickets. I, um, I root for all the Philly sports teams, but I mean, I know a lot more about the Eagles. I don't know a ton about the Sixers. I haven't been to a game in forever. I mean, I will take courtside seats to any NBA game. I want to be very clear. Please offer them to us. We will sit courtside. But yeah, I mean, I'm not, I don't know a and I haven't been following the team that closely.

So I don't know whether to start Googling and fake it or just be like, I'm so sorry. You got to Google it. You got to make sure that like the fake you never catches up with the real you. You know, just Google it. I would make it up. I would make it up. It's like when I tell guys I exercise. But anyway, I just think that was funny.

That is amazing. But I'm like out here and they're like, oh, Sixers fan. So let's talk about the playoffs. Do you know the players? Can you name the starters? No, I don't know about, I know this one guy. I'm not, I know a lot more about the. Eagles. I'm not a huge sports guy.

Sports guy. Not a big sports guy. I would just make it up because it's like weird that you led with the Sixers jersey. Yeah. You know? You got to just like, I'll tell you all you need to know about the Flyers mascot. Then you talk about on the date. And then it's like a funny anecdote too that you don't. Like on the date, you're like, okay, so I didn't really know. But then I could be like, oh, why don't you tell me about him? Oh, that's a good opening line. I don't know a lot about the Sixers. Why don't you tell me about him? He's like, okay, poser. Why are you wearing the jersey? He's like, I'm probably not going to meet up with you anyways. I'm just here because

on the toilet. Okay, Doug. Cool. Doug. Nobody's ever fucked a Doug and liked it. Show me how to Dougie. Oh my God. That should have my opener. Damn it. How did I know? Because every other girl on the app probably says that to him too. I bet they don't. Teach me out of Dougie. I'm sorry. I'm going to ask that guys, anyone ever opened teach me how to Dougie and see what he says. Sounds like a beautiful partnership you guys are forming online. All right. So Raina's into drugs now. I'm a big basketball fan. If you guys are coming to the little stupid live shows, especially Denver. I'm really into CBD oil.

So get me some. Okay. Attodge suitcases as CBD oil. That's all I care about. I'm still good with just Doritos. I'm easy to please. Okay, so really excited. We have a great episode for you guys in the house studio with us and Dewey today.

I am really excited we have an author that I'm a such a big fan of. He is a self-help author, a blogger, entrepreneur. He writes about topics related to culture, dating, life choices, and psychology from a personal development stance that does not suck. Author of The Settle Art of Not Giving a Fuck and the new book, Everything is Fucked, A Book About Hope. Mark Manson, welcome. Hey.

Hey. Good to be here. Thank you for being here. We're so excited to have you, but admiring your work for years. Oh, thank you. We're so glad to have you. And you're, like, really cool. Well, your dog was, so far.

Your dog was Starstruck, so. Yes, he was. I got the nut sniff. It was great. And you did bring, you did bring your newest book, but it's not for us. Yeah, I'm sorry. We had an awkward moment where I thought it was a gift.

Ashley was like, you can't have this, this is mine. You just jumped right in and just cut her down to the core. No, he goes, it's not for no,

but it's for neither of you. Sorry, I only have one. It's leaving with me. I just have to roast you a little bit. It's my favorite thing. Your contact page on your website. Okay.

It's my favorite thing. It is the embodiment of me. So I'm like, I really like this guy. this author, I want to, I want to contact me. Go to your contact page. Let me just read to you guys what this says. Number one. We're going to let you talk, but we like to roast our guests

kind of up top. Go for it. Go for. Everybody gets comfortable. First, we'll note in all caps, I am not currently doing interviews. I'm like, this doesn't feel like this applies to me. That's clearly a lie. Right. I love you. I love your privilege, right? You're like, no, I'm emailing him anyway.

This doesn't apply to me. Please, please know life stories. I'm not accepting guest post. my favorite of all of them, if you are seeking relationship advice, before emailing me, first ask yourself, what if I ask my partner exactly what I'm going to ask Mark? This by itself solves a surprising amount of relationship problems. It's true. We say that all the time.

We get these long emails and we're like, how did midway through this email you didn't realize the answer? You have answered yourself. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I love this page. It's the embodiment of me. It's how I feel like maybe don't write it to me.

Just tell your boyfriend. Hey, I mean, that page, that was built out on necessity. I didn't want to build that page. Yes, absolutely. It's just after a certain, like many thousands of the same relationship questions, and you know, when you're reading it, you know, you're like, she hasn't talked to him about this. Like, she hasn't said a fucking word to this. Totally.

I'm sorry, but there's no, I can't do anything for you. Start there. Start at home, maybe. Exactly. Start at home. So now that I've done roasting you, can you give us like a brief, like, overview of who you are, what do you do? Oh, my gosh.

Talk about your Brazilian wife. Sure. Great. I am, I'm an old school blogger. I started in 2008. So I've been doing this for a long time. Old school blogger, internet business person started writing specifically about dating relationship advice and personal development around 2011, 2012.

And then in 2015, I wrote the subtle art not giving a fuck. It came out in 2016. It's been number one New York Times bestseller, sold six million copies, yada, yada, yada, yada, and that brings me here. On this couch, specifically. Now I'm on your couch and making friends with your dog. Yeah. And how did you decide to start right? Like what qualifies you?

I feel like this is like the office. What gives you the right? That was my question, though. How did you get into the relationship? How did you get into this stuff? So first of all, nothing qualifies me. But like, let's just be honest about that. Someone just turns the podcast off.

Yeah. I get this question all the time. They're like, what are your credentials? And I'm like, I don't fucking have any. Like, I'm just a dude who screwed up a lot. And I write about those screw ups. And, you know, it's like, if that helps you, that's great. If it doesn't, whatever, like don't, don't read it. So when I started, I started, I got online, like 2007, 2008.

I started a bunch of online websites. I read the four-hour work week. I don't know if you guys are familiar. It's on my bookshelf. Yeah. So I wanted to do that whole thing. The economy was in the toilet. I was like 23, 24.

All I wanted to do was like live in Argentina and party all night and chase girls. And so I was like, if I can build a website that just makes a couple thousand dollars a month, I can do that. I can live my dream. Exactly. So fast forward two years and I've been like working 16 hours a day. seven days a week for two years. And I still don't have a website that's making enough for me to like go live in Argentina. She's girls. Yeah. And I had started a number of websites and each one was making like a little bit of money here or there. And the only one that really held my interest was I

started a dating advice site. And that was just because I was single. The biggest thing in my life at the time was my dating life. And so I wanted a place to learn about it and then also, you know, write about it, talk about it. And then that ended up being the website that took off. And by 2010, it was, I shut down everything else and that was like my full-time gig, essentially. And I did end up moving to Argentina and Jason girls. Oh, nice. Is that where you met your wife? No. No, I met her in Brazil two years later. Okay. So I had a good... So you have a type. You have a continent specifically. Yeah, I've got a continent.

Yeah, that's for sure. It's not us. We're not the tag. So let me ask you, I mean, I know the answer to this, but for people who haven't read your book, there's a lot of like self-help, self-help, that's a hard thing to say. I don't even love that word. Authors out there and people that give, so like what differentiates you from everybody else out here?

Bridal honesty? Yeah, I wanted to, I felt very strongly when I, well, let me, let me explain the pivot from dating into self-help, and I'll kind of help explain it. So I was doing dating advice for a long time, and most of my audience was men at first, and then eventually more women started showing up. And what I started to notice is that there's kind of not really a dating problem. Like, any problem you have in your dating life, it is an extension of some sort of emotional or lifestyle problem you have in your personal life. So it's like if nobody ever calls you back, it's, it's like, okay, on the one hand, yeah, you're not saying the right things or you're not being

interesting enough. But really, it's like you've got shit that you haven't figured out in yourself that is allowing you to connect with people more freely. And so I started writing about these deeper topics and I realized like, man, all this is just like, this is just all therapy stuff. Like, this is all just personal development, digging into your childhood, all of your baggage, all your bullshit, all your emotions. And it reached a certain point where I'm like, why am I even calling this dating advice. I should just, because it applies to work, it applies to family, it applies to, you know, changing careers, like whatever. All the same kind of concepts applies. So I jumped in the personal development. And when I jumped over, my style with dating

was always just very blunt, no bullshit. Here's like my disastrous breakup story. Here's like the time I got way too drunk and did something stupid, you know, and people love that. And. And, And so when I moved into the self-help area, I wanted to kind of keep that going of, of, I hate those books and that are like, oh, well, here's me getting out of my helicopter and stepping into my Lamborghini and you can do this too. You know, it's like, fuck that. Not going to drop any names, but I know who you're talking about. Like, fuck that. It's, it's, you know, the things that define us the most are our biggest struggles in life. So I went into it wanting to talk about pain, wanting to talk about struggle and not hiding anything. And it resonated. Like it just,

it really, particularly with younger millennial audience, you know, it felt much more real and authentic than most of the stuff out there. Yeah. I'm just so glad you're here. Because a lot of it aligns with just our mission and how we started this and what we try to do. And we constantly feel like we're hammering home the same advice for every part of your life. It's like for family, for your job, for your relationship. It's just kind of like, yeah, I mean, I guess it's all, it all is connected to your inner child. No, I'm just kidding.

But, yeah, I mean, we want to start? Yeah. So we thought about, like, how best to use you today. I love being used. I just think that you, like, are such a great wealth of information. We're like, oh, my God, like, which lane do we pick? So the first lane we're going to pick is, is love fucked. And we would just love your takes on it.

Sure. I think, well, depends how you define love. We can narrow this down for you a little bit too. Well, okay, basically we started this because everyone's dealing with the same shit. You know, like it's just a lot, there is a lot wrapped up in that question. It's like, is it because of technology? Is it because men are just getting more terrible?

I mean, no offense. I think there's just a lot of bad. Everybody has horror stories all day, every day. Can't get a text back. Can't get a date. Can't get a commitment. You know, no one wants to marry you. What?

Can't meet a nice guy. Can't meet a guy you want to fuck. You know, whatever. So it's just that's why. our podcast resonates because a lot of that. So I think that's that question of like, is it all bad? Why is it so bad? Is it just all fucked?

Yeah. And I think that when I was, I think about dating when I was like 22, 23, 24, I just don't remember things being as terrible as they are today. Maybe that's because I'm older. I'm not as attractive anymore. I don't know. But I don't remember my girlfriend sharing the same sentiments. Like I never heard of ghosting or being strung along forever 10 years ago, you know?

Well, you know what's interesting about today is, so again, back in my early 20s, back say, like 10 years ago when I was starting this stuff, men and women had very different complaints about dating. And I feel like today men and women have the exact same complaints about dating. Because all the men I talk to, it's the same thing. They're like, yeah, I meet tons of girls, but don't really like any of them. And yeah, whatever, maybe we hook up. But, you know, don't hear from them again.

You know, it's just, it's all the same stuff. I think we live in a really weird time right now and that one thing that I say in my new book is that all this technology and social media and everything it's replaced quality of relationships with quantity of relationships. And it's very quantity of relationships is on paper. It sounds great. I think when Zuckerberg was starting Facebook,

he's like, oh my God, I'm going to connect everybody to everybody else in their life. and like that sounds amazing on the surface. But when you really get into the medium of the connection and how people are actually interacting with each other, it guts it of intimacy. And so I think that's happening. I think another thing that's happening is a thing called paradox of choice,

which is the more opportunities you have, the harder it is to commit or make any decision. And so I think this has kind of turned people into dating perfectionists because it's like every single person you date, they're like a 10 in one category and kind of crappy in a bunch of other categories. And you're like, man, well, this other guy, he's a 10 and the cat, that other category.

Can I just put them all together? Yeah, exactly. You're like, yeah, exactly. You're like, eventually I'm going to find a guy who's like, got it all, you know? And you never find them. You just never find them. Do you think as you get older, you get a little more, like when you're 22, 23, you're like,

ah, maybe they'll grow into this? Like as you get older, do you think it's harder to find people because you want every person to be a 10 across all the different check marks? So there, man, there's a lot that I think is complicating this. So part of the problem of paradox of choice is that people are becoming financially stable much later in life than they used to. So it used to be people, I think if you look at statistics from like the 50s and 60s, people were financially stable like by 25. You know, they're buying houses and stuff, having kids. Now it's like if you're financially, if you're out of debt by 30, like you did a, you did a,

you did a really fucking good job. You know, like, it's a lot of people are struggling. And so nobody wants to settle down. You know, if they've got like 40K in debt and the person they're dating has got 80K in debt, like it's, they're like, well, shit, I got to build my career. I got to like get my feet under me. I got to like establish myself in that career. And so I'm just going to take things slow.

The problem is, is that it does two things. One is it creates higher expectations. So when you finally are ready to settle down, when you're like 30, 35. Well, now you've been dating for 15 years and you've got this like expectation of like, all right, he better be Mr. Right. And arsenal of baggage. Yeah, yeah, right.

You got tons of baggage. Right. You're all fucked up. Yeah. But the other issue that happens too is when you wait that long is that is that you have, it increases the dating pool that much more. So it used to be the dating pool was mostly people in their 20s. now it's people in their 20s and 30s and 40s.

So now it's that many more people to date, that many more people to sift through. And it just amplifies just all the frustration and difficulty that comes along with it. I think my best guy friend, he's engaged now, and he has dated so much. He's dated so many women. He moved here, and he just was like, I mean, he's tall. He's looking. He makes money. It's like all the things that especially like women in New York would want.

And he just has this, he's like, when I found Allison, my fiance, she had these things that I wanted and I just stopped. You know, he was like, you have to realize that there is a stopping point that no one's perfect. And I just, I love that take where he was like, all these things I was looking for. She had him. I'm like, I'm done. There's got to be some sort of in town. I think guys just don't stop, especially here. Oh, yeah.

New York is its own beast, too. Like, it's just all of these things are multiplied by two here, I think. And it's, you know, I had a similar thing when I found my wife. I was a serial dater all through my 20s. And I loved it. Like, I loved dating and just partying and messing around. And I remember when I met my wife, I was so happy with her. But it's like my brain was so used to throughout all my teens and 20s,

every single woman that I had been close to, I was like, okay, well, she's great. but she could be, this could be better, this could be better. Ultimately, I want somebody who's like this. And then I'd be like, okay, well, I'm young. I'll find that person, you know? And I just keep going and going and going. And I remember when I got to my wife, I was so fucking happy with her. And like, happy to the point where I'm like, why would I ever date again?

But then my mind still wanted to make those jumps. My mind was still sitting like, well, you know, I could, like, I could probably find a woman who's like this or like has this that's better than her. and I had like shut that part of my brain on. I'd be like, dude, just shut up. So how, so I want to give a solution for that. Yeah. So how do you, I want to do it from both sides.

I want to say from a man's point of view, how do you shut that down? And from a women's point of view, when you're like, oh my God, men have a billion choices, how do you stand out? So I'd love to address it from both sides. So like how did you stop feeling like that? I mean, I had to, I had to recognize that it was like a compulsive part of myself. And like a pattern maybe? Absolutely. I think it's, I think what we're just starting to understand is that there are a lot of elements of sex and dating that are addictive. Like, it's, if you look at like the neuroscience, like what happens to your brain when you're like meeting somebody and falling for them.

Like it's the same stuff that goes on when you take cocaine. So it's, there are addictive qualities that we fall into. And I noticed that I for, you know, being kind of like a playboy for so long, I had a lot of these compulsive thoughts in my head. I had a lot of compulsive stuff around sex. And I had to just kind of like, it's like a guy, it's like a, it's like it's not drinking anymore. Like you just have to be like, no, like you don't get to have that. Yeah. It's over.

That part of your life is done. And understanding that you're giving it up for something better. but that you have to let that impulse go. So that was my particular journey. In terms of how to stand out, I think a better way to think about it is so because the dating population is so much larger than it used to be, and everybody's so much more connected,

essentially what we have is like a filtering problem. So it used to be that the only people if you jump back like a few generations ago, you would really only meet like a dozen potential partners. And those partners were already filtered and screened for you. Like they lived near you. They had families that were similar to you. They were similarly educated to you.

And they knew all the same people. So it's like everything kind of, all the compatibility boxes were already checked before you even met them. When you take a single, city of like 20 million people and give them all tender, like there's no compatibility filters going on. And it's, and the ones that are going on are so superficial. It's like, oh, well, I want a guy who's at least five, nine. You know, it's like, that doesn't, that doesn't, that doesn't, yeah, no one says that. Yeah, but it's like, that's six feet. That's a filter. Yeah, nobody wants that.

Exactly. That's on her list. You guys are already filtered out. That's actually built in, filtered out. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's, that doesn't actually, that's not a, it's a super, It's a superficial filter. And the same thing happens for men. They look at certain ages. They look at certain body types. And it's like, okay, yeah, I mean, you want to date somebody that you're physically attracted to. But all of those lifestyle, personality, and values-driven filters are taken away. So we have to, this generation has to learn to do those ourselves. We have to learn to filter mercilessly for certain. values and personality characteristics that we want in a partner. And because there's so much noise and so much bullshit, like, you really have to be ruthless about it. Like, there's no two ways about it. Like, I actually, I have a friend here in the city. And she's like every other woman in New York. She's beautiful, successful, smart, nice, and single. And I was talking to her. She was really frustrated and I was talking to her and about her dating life. And I said, what is the most

important, I was like, imagine your husband. Like, what is the most important thing that you will, you cannot compromise on, period. Like, everything else is compromise, you can compromise on, but this one thing. What is it? And she's very religious. And she says, like, oh, she, he has to love Jesus. Okay. And I was like, okay, that's totally fair. Yeah. So how are you, how are you screening for that? Right. And she's like, no, half the guys I go out with her, like, they've never been the church in their life. And I'm like, well, then what are you doing? Yeah, you're going to convert them? I was like, what the fuck?

And she's like, yeah, but I don't know. It's New York. Like, how am I going to meet a Christian guy? I was like, by going the church. Right. And she's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I haven't done that in a while. Oh, man. I'm like, oh, my God.

If you want to meet a doctor, hang out at the bars next to hospitals. Just narrow down the search. I hung on this, and I didn't interrupt you, but I haven't been hanging on it. I love having you here because you talk to men. Yeah. Like you're kind of, and you're a man. So double, double threat. When men are like, I meet all these women and I don't like them, what are you mostly

here? Is it she's hot, but her personality sucks? Like I just, I want to use you to get into like the male psyche. And I think I'm very curious of what their commentary is. I like that you ask this because I think so many girls you're like, I thought everything was great. And then he never talked to me. And it's like, okay, so like, what are men doing that they're like, oh, she's hot,

but like I don't care about this. Yeah, it's funny because I think men are less emotionally aware than women are in general. So it's like when you talk to women, they'll be like, oh, well, he's just like, he's very unavailable and he's like very surface. Like, I don't know what he's thinking. Men, they have a harder time pinpointing it, but I think it's kind of the same thing. Like, they sense that they're not being understood or appreciated for who they are. In terms of like lack of compatibility, I think they, a lot of men just, they don't know. how to progress things emotionally themselves. And so when they're with a woman who's not doing that,

they feel kind of lost. And they're like, well, I don't know what the hell to do with this. In terms like what men look for, I think they just, they look for a woman who makes them feel really good and not just about themselves, but just is really good to be around. And I think there's like an emotional stimulation that I think is being lost. on both sides. Like it used to be, women used to complain of like, you know,

I don't know what he's feeling. He's just, he's kind of dull, but like he's a good man. So blah, blah, blah. But it's, now I feel like

all the complaints are coming from both sides. Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's actually maybe a good time

to ask you about this article that you wrote. Sure. That Ashley and I both really love. It's a little bit older. It's from 2013, but it really resonated with me a lot. It was called fuck yes or now.

Fuck yes or now. And you talk about the gray area, which I am obsessed with. And I've been in this area a lot of times with somebody where I'm like, it's just not really moving forward, maybe like I'm a little more into them or a little more into me. And, you know, sort of addressing like what you want from a person and not being in that. Yeah. So the law of fuck yes or no is really simple. If it's not a fuck yes, it's a no.

And that can happen on multiple levels. So there's like a physical fuck yes or no. there's an emotional fuck yes or no and then there's kind of like a commitment fuck yes or no so you can be fuck yes physically but like literally yeah yeah right but you can also be like

clearly this isn't going to last more than a weekend so I think fuck yes or no is so it's important really really important for a few reasons one is it helps people do that filtering that we talked about earlier. It's like you need to be able to move on

to the next person very quickly. And you also need to be very clear in what exactly you want, what makes you feel good, what makes you feel excited, and what doesn't. So that's the first thing. The second thing it does is

I think this, you know, the general complaint in the dating world right now with both men and women is that everything just feels kind of tepid. And I think it's, it's one of these things where it's like everybody's approaching dating by like just dipping their toe in the water. And but because everybody's just dipping their toe in the water, there's no emotional connection.

There's no like excitement and fun and romance and all these other things. What creates that excitement. What creates that is just the willingness to like jump in and be like, all right, I really like this person and throwing yourself out there and just being like, look, I've dated a lot of people. I like you a lot and I hope you feel the same and just like throw it out there and one of two things is going to happen either it's over which will hurt

but at least it was over quickly like you don't have to waste another two months finding out that it's over or two that by putting yourself out there you generate that feeling of romance and excitement and then that person it gives them it feeds into their desire to be needed and loved and appreciated.

And then it makes them feel even more, fuck yes. Well, and that, I mean, not to sound so antiquated, but I think can women say that? I feel comfortable saying that. You know, I think there's a certain, but I think that's where women get tripped up where they're like, I've been burned. Yes.

I've been told that there's this chase. So for me to put my feelings out there is going against the whole thing that men need to chase me and all these kind of things. And so it all kind of ties in a way. you were saying earlier that I also wanted to still touch base on is like, are there things women can do because they want to make a guy feel good, like you said, but they don't want to beat too much. And it's just, it's a whole mess. It's a whole racket. Yeah, I think it's, again, coming back to kind of the old roles, it was the man was supposed to always pursue and the woman

was supposed to pace him. So it was the man's job to always reach for more. Yeah. And it was the woman's job saying, uh, uh, uh, not yet, not yet, not yet, not yet. And that's what generated this sense of romance is that tension that was happening between the two. The problem is, and this isn't really a problem, I feel like culturally we're just in this weird transition period. So 2019, as a man, you can't be pushing all the time. Like, hello, hashtag me too. Like, you can't be pushing all the time.

So men are kind of like in a bind here. Feel so bad for men. I want to be a white man. You know what I get what you're saying, though. It's true, man. And look, this is not, this is not like, oh, poor men. We don't think that. Yeah, I'm just saying that like it complicates things. There's confusion.

There's a lot of confusion. And there's confusion on the women's end because now it's like women are dating, women are more successful in the guys they're dating. They're proactive. They have a lot of confidence. And so they should feel empowered to be like, you know, to push themselves to like be the first person to take a step. But it's just culturally that's still kind of, it's in this weird, ambivalent place.

And so that whole. game of cat and mouse that men and women used to play. That was what used to generate the romance and the excitement and the tension. Now you have both sides kind of not knowing what the fuck to do, waiting for the other side to do something and like, kind of like reacting to each other. And as a result, you don't get that sense of romance and excitement going. And I think the only way to break through that is to just be incredibly honest and vulnerable. And that goes for both sides. I always encourage women make the first move. Tell a guy you like him.

Tell a guy that you think he's sexy, that you're into him. And yeah, some guys are going to be total douchebags about it. But a lot of guys are, it's going to turn them on and they're going to get super excited. They're like, oh, shit, yeah. And then it's going to enable, it's going to allow them to reciprocate and start, start pursuing you in return. And there's a, yeah, there's a way to say it and still keep your cool points, you know, like it's not like. It's about respect. I think you have to really own it.

I think you can say to a guy like, I'm into you. I have a great time with you. What is the harm in that? You know, you're not, if you're not into this, like, what are we doing here? And I think that's terrifying for some women to do. And I don't think it hurts. I like what you're saying too is just like make this person feel like hot and sexy and like wanted. Yeah.

You know? Well, I think that you can do, there's a difference between being too honest and too available. You can still allow somebody to, it's something that I suffer from. I'm always. is too available. I am. It's a problem that I have. But I think that you can make somebody feel excited and sexy and like you're super random and be honest without texting them 900 times a day. Oh, yeah. And being like, when are you going to take me out again? Like I just feel like it's a

better move to be like, hey, I had a great time. I'm into, I don't know. I don't know the exact language, but yeah. I like what you said. That's what makes the difference. It's the desperation. And it's the upfront, sexy, honesty, owning your feelings, I guess. So it's it's about respect. And again, I think this plays out differently for each gender. So on the man's side, you know, with me too going on, you get a lot of men who are like, oh, God, you can't say anything anymore because everything, I'm just a rapist, you know. And it's bullshit. Like, I hate it when men start complaining about that because it's like, no, asshole.

Like, it's not about, it's not that you can't say anything. It's that you have to fucking respect them. Like, you can't, you can't, like, be walking down the hall. at the office would be like, what's up, baby, nice skirt. Like that's disrespectful. You can't do that anymore. But you can hang out with a coworker and be like, hey, look, I'm really into you. And it's totally fine if, you know, you don't see me that way, but I'd love to, like,

go on a date with you. Like, that's completely, it should be completely acceptable. Right. So men have that issue on their side. I think on the women's side, it's like, like you said about being too available, being fuck yes, it isn't about intensity. It's not about like proving

how into a guy you are. It's simply stating it's about respecting space. So it's like saying like, hey, I really had a great time tonight and I would love to see you again. And then just leaving it alone, you know? Because it's the other side of

fuck yes or no. So there's two sides of the rule. The first side is yourself, if it's not a fuck yes and it's a no. The other side is if the other person's not a fuck yes, then it's a no. Right. So if he's not texting you back, if he's like not showing up when he says he's going to show up, you just, you don't fight it. You just leave it. Yeah. Like, because ultimately, why would you ever be fuck yes about a person who doesn't respect your time? Absolutely. I'm laughing because that would just say it.

What, I don't like people that don't like me. Like it's just like, yeah. You shouldn't. You shouldn't. We better both be fuck yes or it's an absolute no. Exactly. You shouldn't. You shouldn't. My dad used to have a saying. My dad's like old school Texan. And so old school Texans have like tons of sayings. It's great. It's maybe the only good thing about growing up in rural Texas. So it's, he used to say he's like, can't complain about being punched if you put your face in front of a fist.

I love you, dad. I feel like he's so my vibe. I love it. We did this episode about commitment. And we said this then, and it's about making the other person be fuck yes also. The answer is not like, if the person doesn't seem into you, if they're not texting you back, the answer to that is not double down on it. Be, you know, do more, try harder, send more sexy picks, be more available.

That is never the answer. Yeah. You know, if the person isn't fuck yes, I love what Ashley always says. If he's not into me, I'm not into him. Yeah, because it's making yourself more available. A, it doesn't respect his space. So if you're just constantly blowing him up, it's, you're not. not, it's like, it's a very subtle form of disrespect, I think. And I think it bothers,

it bugs a lot of men. I think the only men that like it are just like very insecure. Any secure man is like, dude, what the hell? Like, I'll call you back when I'm free, you know? The other thing it does is, is I think it makes them take you for granted. So they, if you're constantly available, then it doesn't, it no longer means anything. And I think this is, this is what happens when like when women who like are constantly just become like the fuck buddy it's just because they're always there so so the guy's like well I'll just call you when I need you which is like you know 3 a.m. on a Friday so you have to have those boundaries to a demonstrate self-respect that that you this is what you expect for your relationships and this is what you want from the

menu date and then also demonstrate that you respect his time and his space and his privacy and everything. Yeah. Recently, I feel like I've run into some situations where I think I've just become a little more, like, closed off. And I feel like I've had guys that did like me and just had no idea that I was interested or just thought that, like, I have this podcast, I just run through men. You know, I just don't care.

And I don't know. Like, I've had to make an effort to actually put myself out there more. And I feel like maybe some women run into that. Everyone's just scared a rejection at the end of the day. Totally. You know, we were talking about what men can do differently. I don't know if we really answered the question. is everything fucked, I guess.

Everything's always fucked. Like, it's a mindset shift. Like, all the odds are against us in so many different ways. And so, I mean, I think you were saying that men need to stop and realize that the perfect person doesn't exist. And if you find somebody, you know, you enjoy, you know, consider committing to them. And I guess on the flip side, women, I don't know,

there's one takeaway. Like, I hate to say women are doing things wrong, but what do you see the most that you feel like women just need to do better at stop doing? is it this? I think in general it is putting yourself out there. And it's not just in terms like initiating or taking the first step. But like you said, so it used to be, again, to bring up the old days, because the man was

responsible for always moving things along, it was enough. If you were a woman, it was enough to just show up and sit there. You're like, well, I'm the girl and he's going to like try to get in my pants. So I'm just going to like hang out until that happens. Right. And then suddenly he never calls you back. Yeah. You know, so the flip side of all these social changes that are happening is that, you know,

a guy's got a list of 20 women he can message at any given time. So if you're, he needs to know that you like him. Right. The same way you say is like, I don't like, I don't like guys who don't like me. It's like most guys are the same way. It's like, I'm not into a girl who's not into me. Yeah. I'm not going to go like sit and just talk for an hour. You know, it's like, like I'm looking for something. I'm looking for that excitement and that passion. And so women need to be more assertive on that side of things as well.

But the answer I think is you don't show somebody obviously you don't show somebody like them by being so you don't show up at 3 a.m. Exactly. You know, that's not how you communicate it. Exactly. You don't need to text him 900 times a day

about what you did at the gym and what you had for lunch. That is not how you communicate it. So how would you communicate it without doing things like that? I think it's about being explicit of what you feel with your nudes.

When is too soon to send a nude? That's his one answer. Send nudes. Get naked. Take a Sharpie, right? You know. So I think it's, it's, because I think the, the trap that you're talking about that a lot of women fall into is, is they mistake quantity of contact with quality. Yeah.

So it's, and I dated girls like that in the past where, yeah, they just text me fucking constantly about like, oh, I'm eating. this sandwich and oh look at this like they're not cute and I'm like and you like but you like attention so you're like I'll take it sure well I'm not gonna like complain about it but you don't really like it but at the same time I'm not sitting there like you know oh sweet she's eating a pastrami sandwich that's awesome you know that's not that's not what I'm thinking what I'm what I'm thinking is like like okay I like her I enjoy spending time with her but I don't need to know every detail about her day. And if she just said that in return, if she was just like, she was like, hey, I did great time. I'm really into you. I hope to see you again. That's it. I don't need to hear

anything else. Right. I don't need nudes. Well, we're not at first. Yeah. Let's not rule out nudes, guys. I'm being very specific. I don't need nudes. I won't. Nudes are acceptable. But do you think this boils down to, I'm just, I'm thinking of like a scenario with There was like, you know, I don't know, not that far down the road. You got out like twice. You know, like this is where girls get all like fucked up. You went out this guy twice. You had a great time, two, three times.

And, you know, he's not asking you out again. Yeah. I think what's the move there? Do you really need to be kind of introspective like to see, not know how I feel? Because I guess it could also boil down just like he's just nothing into you type of situation. Could be. You know. And again, I think just being blunt with that conversation, just being like, hey, I had a great, you know,

send a message. Again, don't, no guilt. Right. No pressure. Yeah. Just be like, hey, I really enjoyed our time together. I just want to know, is there, you know, have you been busy or are you just not interested? And then even say, like, it's totally fine if you're not interested. I would just like to know. Yeah. I guess nothing changes for you. Like, if you're not hearing from a person for weeks and weeks, like, it doesn't change your life. If they're just like, yeah, I'm not interested. That answers the question. Yeah. I mean, clearly they weren't that interested. Or they'll just say, okay, well, I haven't heard from you either. and maybe you guys start back up again.

That too. Right. That too. Yeah. I just love what you said. Like there's zero harm. You don't look desperate. You don't look too available in saying like, I had a great time with you.

I'd love to see you again. Like I just think that those words like sound good. They sound cool. You know, and if they don't ask you out again, they don't want to go out with you. And like there's your answer. And it's, I will tell you from a man, it's when those words come from a woman who is confident, like there's no desperation. There's no like, oh.

Please be with me. Like, if it comes from a woman who's confident, self-assure, she's got her own life, she's got stuff going on. And she's just like, yeah, I'm really into you. I'd love to see you. Like, that is such a fucking turn on. Yeah. Because it's like, damn, like.

It should be. Yeah. If it's not, if you have a guy that's like, oh, no, she likes me. And don't date that guy. Yeah. That's like a child. Yeah, exactly. Like, this is the whole thing with all these conversations.

If any of these conversations scare a guy off. Right. He's immature. Right. He's weak. Yeah. Or he doesn't like you. Or he doesn't like you.

Either way, you can't save that person, you know? Either way, it's fuck yes or no. And I like what you wrote in the article. You were like, if you're in this gray area, like you've already lost. So like, yeah, if you're in this area, like he's not texting you back and you're not sure, like he doesn't like you move on. Yeah. You lost. The reason you meet is you should be fuck yes about something.

Usually it's because they're fucking hot. Yeah. And then once you meet, that fuck yes should continue unabated. And the second it stops continuing, that's when you have to be like, okay, well, what happened? You know, it's like, oh, they're boring to talk to. All right. Well, not fuck yes anymore. So or it's like complete lifestyle and compatibility.

It's like, all right, not fuck yes anymore. It's over. It's like even 20 minutes into the first date, you can know. It's like, all right, this isn't going to go anywhere. Right. And it's like that kind of stringent filtering needs. to happen. Well, and we get a lot of messages about dating this guy. He's great on paper, you know, but I just, I don't know if the spark is there. And we're like, break up with him.

You know, like, I understand that there's relationships that need that have been long-term relationships years long. When we did a whole episode with a sex therapist, like, where there's things that you need to, how's your communication, how's your sex life? This isn't totally going down the tubes. Things are fixable to like bring a spark back. But I think people get wrapped up in this like, oh, this person fits all the qualifications I want, but I don't feel this certain way. And I think the problem there is that they don't know what that feels like yet. Yes.

So, you know, I didn't fall hardcore head over heels in love till I was like 30. So prior to that, I was like, I don't know if this is the right guy for me. Like, how do I know what it feels like? And so I think we're always trying to hammer home. Like we have compassion for women and men that don't know what it feels like. Yeah. So I don't know what to say. I just am, we were constantly telling,

we asked a friend recently, she's just been doing this back and forth with this guy for months and months, and they don't really seem to like each other that much. It's like they just would rather not be alone. And I had to ask her, like, when's that time you were in a relationship? Do you know what it feels like to, like, really be excited and passion about somebody? And I don't know how to describe it to somebody,

but it really is like a fuck yes feeling. I want to see this person again. I don't want them to not be in my life. I want to have sex with them. I want to talk to them. I want to find out more about their life. And I don't know. I think people just get wrapped up and I'd rather just not be alone.

Yeah. I remember when I was in college, I was talking to a friend because I was dating a girl and I didn't know how I felt about her. And I remember I was talking to a female friend of mine and she was like, are you in love with her? And I said, well, I think so. I don't know. I was like, what does it feel like?

And my friend just shook her head. She's like, if you have to ask, then you're not. Yeah. I love that too. Yeah. It's like, it's just, it is unmistakable. Yeah. Absolutely unmistakable.

And so like, don't, right. Okay, good. That's a good word. So don't waste people's time. Yeah. If it's not a fuck yes. I mean, you can like fuck them and do that kind of thing. Yeah.

Well, you can be fuck yes for fucking. Yeah. Absolutely. Right. And I know for more. Yeah. But yeah, by definition, any, if you have to question a fuck yes, then it's not a fuck yes.

Right. Okay. All right. So I want to get into something else with you. Okay. So you wrote this article about love is not enough. We both really love it. Now that you're laying down, I just want to lay down.

You just look so comfortable. This is a comfortable couch. It's all right. It's fine. It's IKEA. Ashley's not impressed. Yeah. It's an apartment couch.

It is what it is. Can you just stay there while you talk and then we'll talk about it. Yeah. Can I get somebody to hold this, this mic here? Right. Exactly. This is the laziest anyone's ever been in this apartment and I'm pretty lazy. It's good.

Take a load off. Yeah, man. Rana, hold his mic for him. Yeah. He looks uncomfortable. He should come. One of you should hold the mic. That's part of your rider.

We have to hold the mic in front of your face. That's how high maintenance, Mark Hans it is. Refused to hold a mic. Refuse to hold my own mic. All right. Anyway. Love is not enough. Yeah.

Right. We can do mansplaining. I have a lot of mansplaining questions. Mansplaining sounds fun. I never get to mansplain anymore. Okay. You're a mansplained. The fuck on this stuff.

Well, but now we already teased. love is not enough. I just want to hear it like a brief. All right. Brief love is not enough. So let's not mistake. A fuck yes is not emotional. So it's it's both it's a combination of of emotion and like thought. So I wrote an article called love is not enough. And it's basically basically this idea that so many of us tolerate disrespectful, damaging, hurtful behavior from people that like we would never tolerate from anybody else in our life. And our justification is like, oh, well, I love them.

And it's, I have a thing in the article called the friendship test. And it's like, take the last thing your partner did that really pissed you off or upset you and ask yourself, if my, if a friend of mine or a coworker or somebody did that to me, how would my, what would my reaction be? And if it's like I would stop being friends with that person, then you shouldn't be in a relationship. Like there's so many things that we tolerate from our romantic partner that would end the friendship. And the thing is, is that it's fundamentally, like, love

is great, it's beautiful, it feels incredible, but by itself it's not enough for a relationship. You have to have respect, you have to have trust, you have to have friendship. Right. And if without those, the love becomes unhealthy, it becomes toxic and compulsive. So love is beautiful. But but love is not enough. Right. I feel like I say this to you all the time about guys. I'm like, if you were doing this to me, I wouldn't put up with this shit.

Right. We do that constantly where I'm like, am I overreacting by this? Whatever it is. Lack of a response. Yeah. You know, bailing out of a conversation. Weirdly inconsistent behavior.

Whatever it is. And I'm like, would I be upset of brain into that? And I'm like, yeah, it's, this is not how I communicate with my friends. And I don't, you know, I have a, this isn't me being a crazy, overreactive woman. It's like, this is not what I want. Yeah.

I'm turned off by it, to be completely honest. Yeah, I had one of my really good friends, he was dating a girl. And they, they, she would like flip out if he would ever like go do too much social stuff without her. And so it became this like really sensitive, almost like game of like figuring out like when he could actually, you know, leave the house and do something. And I remember at one point I was like, because he and I were roommates in college. And I remember telling it, like he was, he was kind of complaining up to me about. about this. I was like, dude, this is so insane. Like, can you imagine when we live together if I was like, well, you didn't take me to a basketball game? Right. Do you like Brandon? Like

more than you like me. And like, yeah. I was like, would you, what would you have thought? He's like, I would have kicked you out of the fucking apartment. Right. Right. I was like, yeah, exactly. Like, why would you tolerate that in a girlfriend? Right. You know? I mean, the difference is that you can have a bunch of friends and you're, you know, can technically have one romantic partner. So I guess that's the, you know, there is, I guess, a little bit of a difference there, you know. But ultimately it's about respect and boundaries. Yes, it's respect. And another litmus test that I do all the time. I've been in this fucked up situation forever. A litmus test with me that I do all the time for myself is if

somebody else was telling me this story. If someone else was saying to me, what do you think? What advice would I give them? Yeah. Because you're very tolerant of your own shit. You're like, well, maybe this. I will rationalize anything that I'm doing. But like, if Ashley told me a story and was like, this is, he keeps happening. And he'd be like, what are you doing? I think about like what would I tell another person. Yes. Well, that's, yeah, exactly. Write the email that you'd send to one of us and then reread it.

There you go. And pretend it's from someone else and take your own advice. My dating book for men is called attract women through honesty. And it's funny because what I used to do when I started kind of understanding all this stuff, because I used to do the same thing. Like I used to go to bars in college and I'd be like, so, you know, funny. see the thing outside, you know, and try to be like all smooth and whatever. I was like, God, this sucks.

It's so much effort. It's really stressful. It doesn't even work half the time. Like I don't even, I have no idea what these girls are actually thinking. Right. You know, and eventually I, you know, when I was studying the psychology of it and everything and kind of having experiences in my own relationships, I just eventually took the approach of like brutal, blunt honesty.

And it was funny because I remember I eventually worked up the courage. by about 2010, 2011, I would walk into a bar. Like, if say I wanted to meet a girl that night, I'd walk into a bar, I'd look around, I'd find the hottest girl I could find. And I'd just walk up and I'd say, hey, my name's Mark, you're really beautiful. Yeah. And like, it was on. Success.

Like, that was it. I would be so shocked if that happened. I'd have to talk to the person. Yeah. Women were like, wow, you were bold. And I'm like, what's bold about that? like, you're gorgeous and I want to talk to you. And it's like, yeah, I want to talk to you as a hotline too.

I'm like, yeah, you should. I'm awesome. I just have to say this, though, that you remind me a lot of my guy friend and that you are an exception to a lot of male behavior. Sure. And, you know, he listens to this podcast and he gets all worked up because he's like, I don't act like that. You know, like, I'm honest and I'm straightforward and I don't play these games.

And now he's engaged. And so if every guy could read all your stuff and be more like you, we'd be a lot better off. I have to hammer that home that I think, you know, you're giving the best advice, like, in a perfect world of men acting like this. And I just, I want more men to act like this. I know.

I'll have to be more honest because the stuff you're saying, it's like, this is what I deal with with Rob, where I'm like, yeah, you're one of the good ones. You're honest and up front and you don't play games. And so, I don't know. Yeah, men are behind the curve. And like I said before, like to be able to get to that point, I had to go through so much baggage and bullshit, like, like insecurities I had around women and

sex to get to that point. But you had to be ready. Like, nobody could force you to be ready at that point. Oh, yeah. And I like to hammer that to them, too. Like, women don't accept a project if they don't want to be your project. Yeah. You know, you weren't ready.

Yeah, it's exactly. All right. So let's mansplains. Okay. I'm excited about this because we do this a lot of guests. I feel like you're specifically qualified. This game is specifically for you. So we asked on our Instagram story.

What do you girls want? man's plain and we got a bunch of scenarios. It's all the same shit. You're going to roll your eyes and laugh. It's literally the answer to all this is like, should I lay down again? Yes. The answer to all this is he's just not that in you. He's just not that in tea. All right. First question. If you really like a guy, should you make him wait to have sex with you? Is it really all about the chase? No, it's not all about the chase. If you're really into a guy and you want to have sex with him, have sex with him. There you have it, ladies. You can have sex with him. Our take is that you should feel comfortable where you are in the relationship and not

sleep with them if you're in two separate pages and then you get even more attached and they aren't into it. So, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, okay, sleep with him caveat. You need to understand the expectations. Right. So if you want him to be your boyfriend and you're just like his Friday night squeeze, then yeah, don't sleep with him. but thanks for the caveat yeah but like it's assuming you've communicated that you're on the same page in terms of like interest level commitment level whatever go for it there's no no but i guess right on the same page yeah i guess the guy that i might last week could sleep with within an hour of meeting him he's probably not going to be my boyfriend you don't know that you never know you never know i also

think it's about your post sex attitude like what you've said a couple buzzwords i feel like of guilt and desperation and things like that. It's like, I always say there's a book. It's kind of, to me now it's a little outdated. I read it when I was younger, but like why men marry bitches. And her take is very like, it's how you act afterwards. That like, it's not the like, oh my God, now are you my boyfriend? Or I mean, if you're a boyfriend girlfriend, yeah, but it's very like, be cool.

Yes. About it. Yeah. Well, and sex means different things to different people. So it's funny. My ex-girlfriend, we slept together like probably a couple hours after meeting. But the thing was is that she and I both had very relaxed attitudes around sex. Sex was like a fun thing.

We'd be bored and we'd like, oh, let's screw. Like it's, it wasn't this like emotionally charged experience that it is for a lot of people. So you understand that about yourself. The last thing I'll say too is like you should never use sex as like a tool to get what you want in the relationship. Yeah. So like the question, the way she worded it is she said, like, is it all about the chase? Like she's basically implying that even though she wants to have sex, she's going to withhold it because that's going to make him like her more.

And it's like as soon as you're creating those little if-then scenarios for yourself, you're not being honest. Right. So that's bad news. You're already in a bad place. Yeah. Yeah. I like that a lot.

I dated a guy for a minute. I ended up, but he was in Miami. but like we had sex within, yeah, within hours. We met on a trip, wasted, had sex. Like, we were like into each other. We started visiting each other. Like, that didn't deter him at all. And like, we talked about it one time because he was like,

I like that we just got that out of the way. Like, I know that our sex is good. I know that we like mesh physically. Like, now this is more fun. So here's something that just came to mind. If you have to, if you feel that you have to withhold sex to keep him interested in you, then he's not interested in you. Oh, I love.

like that. And then you, and then you are going to fuck him and then bye. He's out. Right. So he's just going to leave you in three weeks instead of two. Right. It doesn't slow it down. I like that. The last two really serious relationships I had, I slept with both of them. Like the minute. Like the first date immediately. And I, I wasn't using, I just, I felt like having sex. I wanted to have sex. I had sex with them. I wasn't like, what does this mean if I do or don't? Do I, if you give yourself this like roadmap to making him commit to you, like, it's still not necessarily going to work. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And it's like with my wife. So my wife. So my wife. like polar opposite of my my ex, which is my wife told me, she was like, she's like, no, sex is a big deal to me. Like, I want to wait, you know, like, not until marriage, but like, she wanted to wait until we were, we'd been dating for like a month or two. And, um, that was my ex was. But a dude. Everybody's different. He wanted to wait. Everybody's different. Everybody's different. Okay, fine. But can I feel your dick so I know what I'm working with?

Right. The words came out of my mouth. I'm not, that wasn't a bit. But yeah, I mean, it's everybody's different. And so I was like, yeah, that's cool, you know? Yeah. And it did make it like a more momentous thing. So, yeah, everybody's different. Sex can be very, it can be many, many, many things. I just like that.

It's just all about, like, that she was just honest about it. Because it's when you aren't honest that you get all fucked up, where you're like, I want to sleep in this guy, but I'm doing this other thing to try to get this other outcome. And so I feel like some people want to wait and that's fine. Yeah, totally. I mean, people experience sex very differently. Right.

I'm going to ask this when it feels personal. My ex is constantly reaching out to me even though he's a serious girlfriend. Why? I'd say it doesn't matter. Just don't talk to them. Right. Sometimes the answer doesn't really matter, right?

How do you feel when it's happening? Do you make you feel shitty? Don't do it. And it's funny because why questions, things that are emotionally stressful are brains look for explanations even when they don't matter. there is no explanation for this that is going to change the situation.

I love that. Who cares? Who cares? Don't talk to him. I had a boyfriend that cheated on me like crazy. And my mom's a psychologist. I was kinder about it. I was so upset. I kept saying like, why did he cheat on me? Why did he do this? She said, you'll never get the answer. And if you did, what's the difference? He did it, you know? Doesn't matter. I love that. Why do men ghost out of talking to you and then three weeks later reappear like nothing ever happened. Because you're their plan B. Right.

Love that you said it. That's it. You're on the bench. You're not being called up. Exactly. Someone else was getting playing time in those three weeks. Yeah. And she didn't work out.

So you're up. Yeah. Yeah. Do you strongly feel men, when they like a girl, that's not something that they do. Like when they really like you, the way what you deserve to be like,

they don't just disappear for weeks on end. Right? Like you're on their mind. Absolutely not. Yeah. Absolutely. Like, we're all human. Like, when you like somebody, you like somebody.

You want to talk to them. You make time for them. Right. Thank you. We say it all the time. If a man wants to see you, he'll see you. He'll do anything. My mom has told me this since I was four years old.

It's the number one piece of advice. She hammered into my mind my whole life. She was like, if a man will murder his mother, if it means seeing you, if he likes you. But so here's a little bit in men's defense here. Like, it's, I think men, again, they, when they have so many options, they get confused. They don't know what they want sometimes. So this whole issue of filtering that I keep talking about, it's an issue for both men and women, but again, it plays out differently.

So on the male side, he's like texting eight different girls, but he doesn't know which one he actually wants to go out with. Whereas on the female side, it's like she keeps going on dates and then guys never call her text back. Because he's got eight of their girls. Yeah, but he doesn't know what he wants either. So it's like everybody, again, you're replacing quality of connection with quantity of connection. What do you tell a man that comes to you with that? What do you, that's, I have all these girls, I can't figure out how I like. Like, what would you tell them? Well, if I, I've had, I've had friends here in New York who have been in that situation.

And I'm like, I'm like, you know, let's say he's like, oh, yeah, I'm talking four different girls. I don't know, I don't know what to do. I don't know which one I like. I'm like, okay, right now there's one, pick two that you can never talk to again. rest of your life. Right. It's like, oh, well, dude, you know, it's like, this one's really hot. This one has like, yeah. Big boobs.

And I'm like, no, you just pick two. You can never talk to again. And when you put it like that, they're like, okay, yeah, these two, I've never talked to again. And it's like, okay, stop texting them. Right. If you're not, fuck yes, stop texting them. Right.

Let's hammer it. Let's narrow it down. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much. No problem. This is really amazing. Yeah.

We would love you to plug your. your things talk about where to find the book, when it comes out, your Instagram, all that. So, website, markmanson.net, Instagram is Mark Mansonnet, all one word. I've got a new book coming out, May 14. It's called Everything is Ficked, Book About Hope. It's not, it doesn't talk about dating, but it talks about social media, technology, how it's changing our perception of the world, our happiness, creating all sorts of problems. I think that's it. Well, yeah, and then again, like all these articles we've referenced are on your website. I love how your website is set up because it's very like, here's my greatest hits,

divided by category. So if you're really like, oh, I love what this guy is to say, go to the, I forget what the tab says, but you've, you know. It's like dating relationships. Yeah, but it's like the top articles or whatever and then you click on relationships and then you get like five or six of like the ones that we've referenced. Check out, fuck yes or no. Check out love is not enough.

And then there's an article called A Guide the Boundaries, which ties in very well here. Oh, I like that. Okay, I need to read that. I need to read about boundaries. And for us, guys, as always, Girls Gotta Eat Podcast.com for show dates, we promise next week we are announcing a bunch of new cities. We wanted to do it this week and we weren't able to, for reasons out of our control,

but it's coming next week. We promise you guys and then follow us on Instagram. Girls Got Eat Podcast. We're on Twitter. We're verified on Twitter, not on Instagram. As always, we're not on Snapchat. But there's plenty of D-list celebrities that are if you'd like to follow them.

Maybe you appeared on a reality show for 30 seconds. They're probably verified. They're probably of the bleep. It's fine. We're not mad. You guys will get there. Don't worry. Well, you never know.

Now we're just, now we're pissed about it. We're giving them back. Actually, this morning was like, I'll just give them back. I don't care what your stupid check. All right, you guys, anyway, thank you so much.

Get Mark's book. We'll see you next week. Thanks, guys. Have a good week. See you.