Girls Gotta Eat - Midterms, Media, and Mental Health with Jon Favreau

Episode Date: October 19, 2026

The midterms are approaching, so we brought in one of our favorite political podcasters/voices of reason, Jon Favreau of Pod Save America, to chat with Ashley. They chat about what’s at stake in this election, which party votes more and why, races to watch/donate to, actual change we could see in the country based on the outcome, and Jon’s hopeful outlook. They also discuss staying sane in the current political climate, from how to digest the news without raging, to social media boundaries, to having friends and family members with different values and how/when to talk to them. Also in the discussion – the unexpected commonality between Obama and Tr*mp, who Jon is excited about for a 2028 presidential run, what the left needs to correct, and lastly, Jon’s Dating Hack and Dating Wack. Before the interview, we chat about our favorite/scariest Halloween decorations we’ve seen this year (with visuals), and Ashley shares a chaotic Walmart shopping experience. Enjoy! Follow Jon on Instagram @jfavs, listen to Pod Save America and Offline with Jon Favreau, and learn more about Crooked Con at https://crooked.com/events/. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for more. Thank you to our partners this week: Hinge: Download the dating app designed to be deleted. Skims: Shop our favorite loungewear and pajamas at https://skims.com. Noom: Start a GLP-1 program for $39 and have it delivered in as little as 7 days at https://noom.com. Quince: Get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order at https://quince.com/gge + app-exclusive offers when you download the app. Smile Set: Get 35% off at https://smileset.com/gge. Columbia: Get your hands on an Amaze Puff Jacket at https://columbia.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Who are you into presidential run on the left? For a while, I was like, no one is jumping out at me. And I was really, and now, this podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi, guys. Hi, guys. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Welcome back. Oh, this is going to be a different style episode.

I'm glad to be reunited with you. Thank God. Just in my solo interview with John Favre. of Potsave of America, not of swingers, just to clear it up for Raina. And Raina, it was going great. I mean, I was had a panic attack when I was introducing him because I don't do that. And you wrote the intro for me. And then at the end, I did our outro and like, no one said, like, have a good week. And I was like, oh my God. And I said, John, you have to say, bye guys. Like, it was like this, that was really smooth until the very end where I was like, oh, no,

I need her for this. Yeah. Well, so if you guys don't know yet, um, Ashley, did her first interview without me ever. So I've only had two episodes solo. No, I did with the Andrew Collin. Yeah, but that was, that's different. That's family. Andrew Collin is also family. I did two episodes of Andrew Colin without you and the history of this podcast. You've done one without me, right, with your Shishonk. But this is the first time like a stranger has been on the show solo with us. And I went to their studio. You guys will see. You got to watch this on Spotify or YouTube. They have this very cool newsroom set up. Like, I went. to crooked media. It was like in, you know, the motherland of democracy in L.A. I would say.

How did it feel a co-host without me? I mean, it would have been so weird to do an interview about something dating sex relationship related without you. But it felt really normal and natural for me to talk politics with him. There's a little dating at the end. Like, he has some fun stuff to say about meeting his wife and DC and the DC girl is you're going to really like the like the end of this. It was good. I just, I'm excited for you guys to hear it. I feel like at parts, it was just a therapy session for me being like, John, please tell me it's going to be okay. And just we, you know, we vented a little bit, but he is a hopeful take on everything and realistic and he's, you know, brilliant. And he is, doesn't hold back. You know, I asked him like, who do you want to be present in 2028? You know,

who do you like and who don't you like? And he just, he's on a politician. He's a podcaster and, you know, obviously media founder. He can say whatever he feels like we get to do. So it was really great. Okay, good. Well, I'm really excited to listen. You like literally just walked in the door.

So I don't really know anything about this. So I'm excited to listen. So much happened while you were like in this interview. I mean, Lena Dunham announced that like Girls is coming back for five episodes. And I was like, Ashley, I need to talk to Ashley about this. I can't believe it's happening. I just like lost my mind. Also, like the new White House press secretary gave her first press conference.

And I was like, has this person ever held a microphone before in their life? And I was just like, I can't believe I can't talk to Ashley about this like right the second. I know. We'll probably have to deep dive in some of this for the snack for this Thursday. Hopefully it's not too dated. But yeah, a lot, a lot went down while I was in that room. Okay. Well, we can thank our partners and then we'll get into it.

Okay. Thank you to Hinge. Download the dating app designed to be deleted. And skims shop our favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims. And Noom, start a GLP1 program for $39 and have it delivered in a little as seven days at Noom.com. And thank you to Quince. Get free shipping and 365 day returns on your next order at quince.com slash gge and app exclusive offers when you download the app. And Smile Set, get 35% off at Smileset.com slash GGE and Columbia.

Get your hands on an amaze puff jacket at Columbia.com. Okay. I mean, October 19th, we are in the thick of Halloween. season. I love it. I'm so excited. Really doing a big this Halloween. Three parties I'm going to, but I'll talk more about it. Maybe next week. Have you told me what your costumes are going to be? We don't really totally know. Okay. Are you going to do couples costumes? Yeah, we are. We're going to three parties. Three together. Okay. And are you going to do couples costumes for all three of them? Yeah, I think two parties will be in one night on Halloween night. So we'll wear the same. So I think we are going to

two different costumes. I mean, Shishonk wants to wear his fucking hobbies. I mean, Shachonk wants to wear his fucking dog. You got to let him cook. The next week on the snack, we'll talk about that. 2026 costume. Who are a cheeseburger? Was it Katie Perry? That sounds right.

But not for Halloween, just for a red carpet. I think she was the mecca. No, no, stop. Here you go again. This is like Casey Anthony on Dancing with the Stars. As soon as you said, this is just like, I knew exactly what you were going to say. No, I think it was for VMAs or it was a live performance. Yeah.

Oh, no. Wait. Am I right? I'm sorry. Yeah, it says you're right. It says she wore the hamburger to the 2019 Met Gallet. Right. Yeah.

You know. Right. Okay. Because there was like a video for having to take it off to go to the bathroom that was awesome. Well, she started the night in like a chandelier dress. I remember meaming that year because that was camp. That was the best mechalla theme of all time was camp. That was like my favorite year.

I'll never forget it. I have the memes. They're on my highlights. If you guys want to dig deep and find them. But then, yeah, I guess she changed. And then there was this viral bathroom moment with Jennifer Lopez. But yeah, the chandelier was the early part of the night.

And then she changed into the burger for the after party. I said that you recalled that. That was years before we even started the snack, which is crazy. I feel like my like pop culture knowledge was not what it is today back then. Oh, gosh. But I'm like loving Halloween and like spooky season here. I am constantly fascinated by New York City Halloween decorations because like I, okay, I just sent you like a whole like album of Halloween.

Yeah, you can look at them. All I want you to try to think about as you look through these is who has the space for this volume of decorations in New York City? Like you have storage units. I mean, this is like our next door neighbor here. Her house is insane. And it's all full size animatronics in the house. It's like a full blown haunted house next door.

And they have a big house. Like, but she has a storage unit for her Halloween. Like Halloween people get it done. And they keep this stuff. off-site. You think New York City people who live in like tiny one-bedroom apartments, people are living in like 600 square feet for $10,000 a month, you think those people have storage units on top of this? The full-size, yeah, right of this 10-foot skeleton, that must be a storage unit. Where do you think it is in the kids' room? The kids' bedroom. It's in the office.

I sent you one where there's a building that has like eight windows and there's skeletons hanging off of every single window. Like, do you think they go like, the owner of the building goes like apartment to apartment and asks permission to hang the skeletons out? a window like well where were you this could be a rich family that has the whole building like they could just live in that brownstone all the west village these i just sent you the west field that construction site this construction company has skeletons my vibe is that one family owns that whole brownstone and they get to do whatever they want with the skeletons climbing up it this is wild i am impressed and i do feel like new yorkers take it there like it's edgy it's really scary like we live in a

more family neighborhood. We went on a walk the other night to look at the decorations and I'll look at the video I set you. Okay. It's like there's a lot of family stuff. It feels very family friendly. And then people get political in California. So it's like,

skeletons voting. Yeah, I feel like this is very on trend with the episode today by RIP bigotry. Yes. I loved it. Real political statements. Halloween with a message. Wow. Yes. So that's really the vibe. I feel like New York is like some of the decorations, the intent is to traumatize you in L.A. It's really to encourage you to vote. I actually think you're totally right. I have seen stuff. There are like mechanical ones. There's a few lawns or fronts. Like stuff is moving. And I'm like, aren't children terrified of this? And you know that I am chasing the high at all times of October 2024. When I walk by the building, it's on Bedford and Christopher. And there was six windows. And each one of them had a body hanging from the.

the window, a giant full-sized mummified body hanging out of the window on a string. They're all strung up by their feet upside down. Yes. Oh my God. And I'm chasing this high every year. Like, I wonder if there was like a city ordinance like served to these people like, hey, you can't have this. In public, there's bodies hanging off of your building.

Yeah. It's just a weird time to, you know. Yeah. So let me send you this one because there, I want to give us a little more credit. There was one. I grabbed Shishonk's leg and gasped because it was, well, I'm just, I want you to watch it. It's a video.

And then I want, because we'll play all these on the screen. This is a good time to watch you guys. Oh my God. There's a child in the yard that would scare that shit out of me. A child like mannequin staring at a gravestone. Raina, is that not terrifying? No, nothing is scary than kids. No, this is terrifying.

I'm sorry. Like a fake kid on the lawn staring and like staring in a graveyard. I'm going to have nightmares. The way I gasped is like, grab Shashog and he was like, Ashley, relax. I'm like, okay. What that's really twisted. No, kids are fucking scary. Okay, you've crossed the line with children.

I'll take bodies hanging out of a window, but a child standing in a graveyard. Yes! Would you ever be a Halloween decoration person? Yeah, 100%. I've said this before. I, like last year, I think last year I posted on my story, like, when I finally have my forever home, this is what I'm doing, because it was all Beetlejuice, the whole front yard.

And so this year, I was like, I want to see the Beetlejuice house and see what they did this year. or maybe they do Beetlejuice every year, I don't know. So we find the house, no decorations yet. And we look in the window. We can see in their window. They're watching Fox News. I was like, I thought those people, I thought I looked up to them.

I thought you guys were cool. I thought you were one of us. Shoshaw was like, oh, they're watching Fox News. I was like, not the Beetle Juice House. So yeah, I mean, I would so be into that. I've been seeing a lot of blow up decorations. So people do blow them up and collapse. And I feel like you're a Halloween decor person or Christmas decor person.

Maybe this year I'll get a Christmas tree. Maybe it would be my first year finally with a Christmas tree. Every year I'm threatened to get one. Maybe finally I'd do it this year. I think that'd be really nice. Just even like a small one. Just even you can do a small fake one? I'm going to.

Okay. Can I tell you something that has been going on in my life? No. So I have been curious about Walmart fashion for a minute now. Okay. Ever since, honestly, we posted that clip about how Target has gone so far downhill. And did you ever, did you read the comments? Like that clip did really well.

And people were like, Walmart's where it's at. Like Walmart's the new Target. Because, you know, Target did used to have like fashionable clothes and all the collabs. And everybody's like, it's Walmart now. And I'm like, no shade, but I've never thought of Walmart like that. It used to be Target for sure. Like I just, you know, I haven't just shopped there in a really long time. And so I saw on Kate Kennedy's Instagram story, some clips she posted.

And it was like a fat, some stylist, some renowned stylist talking about how Walmart had the perfect white button down. And then Kate posted, she was like, what's going on at Walmart? Because she was like something about these dupe jeans. There are these $620 jeans. The brand is Kate, K-H-A-I-T-E. Yeah, their purses are like $1,000. Yeah.

Yeah. So the $600 jeans, Kendall Jenner, Rihanna, they've worn these jeans. Walmart has a $30 dupe. And they're like hard to find. So I get on Walmart and I'm like, I'm finding this perfect white button down or the button down. I get the last pair of jeans in my size. They're called like the scoop is the brand stove pipe gene.

They're mostly sold out. I was able to get like the lighter wash, which I didn't love. I was able to get the last pair of the lighter wash in a four. So I order that. I get another pair of pants that looked really cute. Walmart's like, it'll arrive tomorrow, all of it. I was like, okay. I think much about it.

So I'm like, all of it tomorrow. Okay. Where's it coming from? And then the text messages start. Raina, over the course of the next 24 hours, I received 14 texts from Walmart about what about my three items. Like just all the shipping updates like word it's swear to God like when brands do this. They're not the only one that does it.

Other brands that will rename nameless because one of them is a partner of this show. It's crazy. It's like your craziest ex. It's like I love you. I miss you. I'm outside. Like I swear they're just like every step of the way they have to text you about it. They called me.

I was at the concert. They called you like someone like a courier called me. Yeah. So this was Friday night, I ordered this Saturday. I'm at the concert. Somebody's calling me a courier. We're here from Walmart. I'm like, what is going on? I text them the gate code. So I get home and on my doorstep is the first pair of pants, not the jeans, in a Walmart bag, a shopping bag. Like they sent an Instacart shopper to Walmart for you. What's happening? They're just couriering from a store. That's their overnight shipping. So. Also, they call you. They're like, hi, this is the least expensive thing that you've ever bought. So we just thought we'd call you to say we're here. So I get the first pair of pants. I really do like them.

They're very cute. And then the other two items, the shirt and the jeans, they're late. So 17,000 more texts about being late. So they show up on Sunday. And I get an email that the rest of the order has arrived, allegedly. I go outside on the doorstep. The shirt has arrived in a regular shipping bag, no shopping bag. So that came normally.

And I open it. The shirt's nice. I really do like the shirt. It's like U.S. Polo Association, whatever. And that's the brand. People think it's like polo, but it's not.

It's like, you know, knock off polo. No jeans, but they said they arrived. So I check the email. There's the photo, the delivery confirmation photo. And it's a photo of a Walmart bag,

again, jeans in it, I assume, outside of some house. That's not mine. So I'm like, they took your one of a kind, hard to get jeans to someone else's house? So Raina, I'm like, where are these jeans? Because normally I would just email back, boop, boop, boop, and get a refund. These weren't delivered to me. I don't live here. I don't know where they are. I don't know where they could be.

But this was the last fucking pair. Like, this is the last pair. So I'm like, I'm heading down the streets. I'm going to find these jeans. And I kind of recognized the house. Sort of I thought. I was like, am I making this up? Whatever. It was this blue house. I was like, I feel like I kind of recognize it. I walk outside, look down the street. There it is all the way down the street. This blue house. I hoof it down there. What if someone grabs it?

So I run down to this blue house. I jump their gate. What? You jumped the gate for Walmart jeans. It was a low gate, but I was like, I'm not going to ring your thing. Yeah. I straddled the gate. I jumped.

I broke in. I would have not been able to get over it. So there's the shopping bag. So I get the shopping bag. I come home and she shocks on the couch. She's like, you did that. You went on a journey and found your jeans. And I got all my stuff.

80,000 texts later, a trip around the block. How was it? Three different deliveries. Everything's great. The jeans are good. I mean, listen, they're $30. Like, they're not going to feel super luxury. Like, I also, I have nice jeans.

I have Allison, Olivia. I have page. I mostly wear Levi's. Like, I'm not like a super high-end luxury denim girly. Like, I usually stick to Levi's. And they don't, you know, they don't even feel like that. They just feel like a cheaper. denim, but they look good. And I think they're a pretty good dupe, like signature black enamel

button, which I love. And the button down is great. And then the other pants are really great, too. The other pants are kind of funky. They're like printed and they're like kind of, I don't know how to describe the cut, but they're, uh, I don't know. So watch the space for my Walmart hall. And that's what's going on at Walmart. But do not sign it for texts and just know that they might start dropping stuff at your house in a Walmart bag. You have really changed since I left. Did you start playing basketball yet? I mean, you play basketball and you shop at Walmart. You threaten to pull basketball.

Shop at Walmart. You host this show by yourself. Those are the three things. I was like, is there anything else? Just hang out with your husband all the time. If I'm playing basketball and shopping at Walmart, just like middle school. Fated Glory. And the thing, Kate Kennedy posted, she was like, what is going on at Walmart?

Because her, like me, also feels like you remember Walmart from the faded glory date. And, like, the clothes weren't that cool. I mean, that was, like, their main brand. You know, I don't think we ever shopped there. We were a Target family. Okay. Well, we didn't get a target until my senior year in high school. So we got a Walmart and a Sam's, and that was huge.

Oh, Sam's. My dad exclusively shops at Costco. That's where his entire wardrobe comes from. I think you cross the threshold as, like, a 70-year-old man. Yeah. That's just where your dad shop at Costco? We don't, we don't have memberships. There's not one close enough by, like, where my parents live.

they probably still do have a Stams Club membership. I'm not sure. But the Costco is like upstate. Like it's not close by. I just, I feel like Lee would shop there if it was an option. 100%. Well, maybe you can get your dad to get him like a pair of jeans for Christmas.

That's what you should get my dad for Christmas this year's pair of Costco. It's Kirkland. Kirkland. Kirkland signature. Uh-huh. I used to say Kirkland signature jeans in a bit. It just came back to me. Okay.

Well, we are going to get into the interview. But first, we are just going to thank our part. partners, thank you to Hinge. Truly, I think our favorite dating app, mine and Ashley, I mean, we love how, I know. I'm like, it's the only one I, even on my radar. I mean, not anymore, but, you know, it's the only one worth being on. If you're married, it's the only one Ashley we consider being on. No, I just, I love the app. It is so easy to use and you upload your photos. But I think the most frightening part of dating apps is how do I open up a conversation with somebody and how do I engage? And Hinge. And Hinge.

is the app that facilitates that the most. So I think it's just like you you build up this thing in your head like how am I going to start a conversation with somebody? And they have so many prompts that allow you to talk to somebody and open up a conversation and just start like developing this like crazy how we met story. And it takes the guessing game out of like what do I say next because you can upload all these photos and like captions on those as well. But you can talk about all the things that make you unique. And Ashley and I have seen a million dating profiles over the years. And anything that shows off your personality and your uniqueness and gives somebody something to talk to you about and ask you questions about is always a good idea. Anything that sets you apart is just a great way to initiate a conversation on a dating app. But just in general, Hinge is really committed to make it easy, making dating intentional, getting you off the app, getting you onto a date and creating a dating app that is designed to be deleted. So if you are interested in meeting somebody and you want a date intentionally, Hinge is a great way to do that. So download the app, now and get out there and meet some good people. Okay. And then when you find your person on Hinge and

you bring them home and get in those sheets, make sure they are quince. We are loving quince for everything. Raina, get your Christmas tree on quince. You know, they sell them. Rain idea. It's a great idea. So you can get, of course, your fall wardrobe, your winter sweaters and your shoes, accessories, jewelry, luggage, everything. But we want to tell you about the betting because it is incredible quality. It feels so, so good. So Quince makes hotel quality bedding using premium natural materials

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Noom, lose for keeps, initial one-month subscription. from $39 plus tax and $99 plus tax per month thereafter, cost of medication is not included. Final pricing depends upon program selection. Okay, let's get into the first solo interview on this podcast. Let's get into it. Okay, guys, we are so excited to be joined by the co-founder of Crooked Media and co-host of Pod Save America, who previously served as President Barack Obama's director of speechwriting and became the second youngest chief presidential speechwriter in White House history.

He also hosts offline with John Favro and The Wilderness and is the co-author of the number one New York Times bestseller, Democracy or Else, How to Save America in Ten Easy Steps. With the midterms, just two weeks away, we're thrilled to have him here with us. Please welcome to Girls Got to Eat John Favro. Thanks for having me. I never do that. My heart is pounding. That's Raina's job for nine years. To do the intro?

Yes, I don't do it. I do the outro. Oh, yeah. I don't even know what's about to happen. But I'm so glad to be here. I was just telling you we don't do this a lot. I appreciate you coming here. Yeah.

Save me a trip somewhere. So how are you feeling just general wellness check today? I feel great. Okay. Yeah. I feel good about the midterms. You too? Yeah.

Okay, good. I don't, I mean, we can start talking about 2028. I don't feel bad, but I feel much more uncertain about the presidential. But I think, I mean, here's my thought on the midterms. If Democrats cannot win in this political environment, which is the worst political environment for Donald Trump and the Republican Party since Trump has, you know, walked down that fucking escalator. Yeah. If we can't do that, then like everyone should just pack it in and go home. Okay.

Well, I didn't want to get into this right up top. But so you believe that we're going to have a free and fair election? You want to believe that? Yes. With Elon Musk's $300 million, like all the things. Like you still believe in our democracy enough that we're going to have a midterm election? I think we're going to have an election. Let's get into what the problems could be.

Because it's not that I trust Donald Trump or the federal government at this point. I just have a lot of trust. Right, yeah. But there's states run elections. It's very hard for the federal government to interfere with the state run elections. And the courts, even the Supreme Court, has sort of. said that as well. I worry more on the back end of like, let's say, James Tala Rico. Talafrico, right. If he leaves his mental hospital in Ohio and somehow wins the election by like, you know, 10,000 votes.

Yeah. And Greg Abbott is the governor and it's a Republican state. Does he try to fool with the certification of the election on the back? Like that kind of stuff. Yeah, that could happen. I worry about that. But we're going to have an election. Okay. I'm glad you said that. Because I find myself in these, they're ramping up all the violence and all the ice and all the things to enact martial law so we don't have an election. Now, is that a valid concern? Or do you not really get bogged down with those types of like theories? I don't get bogged down with that.

I mean, there's a couple reasons why I don't. One, I just, I do trust, again, it's hard to. for people to hear this because everyone's like, well, this Supreme Court is like pretty right wing. But just seeing the decisions they have handed down about sort of election interference in the Trump era, on that kind of stuff, I feel like the court's going to be good. I think that Trump is, here's the other thing. He doesn't care as much about the midterms as when he's on the ballot. That's so true. You know, and so a bunch of Republicans losing, like, I'm sure he wouldn't be, he's not going to be happy.

Right. But he's just going to blame them and say, like, I did everything I could. And that's their problem. Totally. When Trump's on the ballot, everything works out great, you know? So that just if you don't trust Trump, you can at least think that. And the other big reason that I don't worry about this is because I can't control it. Mm-hmm.

We have a whole bunch of lawyers. The lawyers are out there. Yeah. We have election officials. Everyone's sort of monitoring this. They're going to do what they can do. And I always, when people say this to me, I'm always like, well, what would you, if you knew that we weren't going to have free and fair elections,

or if you knew that he was going to declare martial law or try to do something like that, what would you do differently? Versus if you knew for sure he wasn't going to try those things. And the answer is like there's not much different. You can do. If you're a lawyer, if you have someone who's like getting cases ready or monitoring polling locations and all that kind of stuff, then yeah, then you have some things to do and to prepare for. But for most of us, and for me, all I can do is talk about the midterms, try to get people involved, try to get people voting, try to give people the best information they can, and then hope for the best. Okay, great. That's where I've, that's where I've landed after many years, many years of doing this.

Okay, great. This is more of a therapy session for me. Okay, we're going to circle back to it. I do want to ask you a few burning questions that are hot topics on girls got to eat. Sure. So number one, do you think Mitch McConnell is alive? Yeah, I mean, to find alive. Or is it like a weekend of Bernie situation?

I think he's alive. I think he's not well. Okay. Do you think it's elder abuse? Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think it's the first time there's been elder abuse. And I don't even think it's a partisan thing.

Like Diane Feinstein hung on a little too long. Yeah. So this is not the first time this has happened in the United States Senate, which is unfortunate. But I think, yeah, I think he's hanging on until the end of his turn. Okay. Your team alive. That's not a corpse. Do I think he's like?

You know, just making a lot of interesting points in the Republican caucus meeting. No, I don't. Okay. Do I think you can do much more than like... The thumbs up, was the thumbs up real? Yeah, and there was like a, it was like sort of a peace sign. I thought, I was not something that Mitch McConnell was known to be giving peace signs. Right, like a Gen Z like, like, people were sending to me and I was like, that's an AI.

That's a deep fake. That was real. The peace sign was real. Okay, my next burning question. Yeah. Do you think Trump is always in a diaper? And my follow-up question, you don't? He's a huge diapery ass.

I think that's just the ass. And he's got like a supa. I think that's just all him. You think he's caked up like that? Not that I've ever wanted to think. Thank you for putting that image in my mind. But yeah, no, I think he's just a large man. Haven't you seen clips of people behind him, standing behind him, like he's, they're smelling.

Like, I think he's, my theory is that he's not ever been potty trained. Sure, maybe. And he's shitting his pants at all. times. This is my personal theory. When you think about those faces of the people behind him, think of all the things that Trump says and does that could lead you to make that face. And it is infinite. Right. Yeah. It was a one in particular at a funeral. What funeral would have been? Lindsay Graham, maybe. Oh, yeah. Someone was like, he was about to throw up. Oh, he was like a secret service behind him or someone behind him and they thought, okay. We're not aligned quite yet.

My third question is... I'm not ruling anything out, of course, but I'm telling you my opinion. Do you have Obama's number and could we FaceTime him? We can... I, uh, no, we cannot FaceTime him. But I could, I could contact him if I needed to. Well, let me know. I'll stay late.

Okay, so yeah, I mean, those are my three burning questions. Thank you for answering them. I'm a little upset. We can't face time Obama, but that's fine. Okay. So you feel hopeful. about the midterm elections. And just in general, with the current state of the country and you are someone who cares about it, you were someone who is mostly consumed by politics for work,

how do you stay sane, know what to digest, take care of your own mental health, you have a family? I mean, how do you do it? It is an ongoing journey. Let me tell you. I just took Twitter off of my phone on Sunday. I've done this before. I'll be so cool. Twitter. Same. Yeah. Because I was like, I could tell it was getting to be election season, like the final sprint, because I found myself checking Twitter constantly for no good reason. Okay. And I was like, what information am I looking for? What information would I find on this fucking app that would somehow bring me peace or make me think that I'm in control of what's going to happen? And the answer is nothing. Yeah. And I wanted to be present with my family and my children this weekend. And I was like, I am done.

I am not doing this. I'm getting it off the phone. I'm not even getting off the home screen. I'm deleting the app. When I'm sitting at my laptop, I can look at Twitter then. So these are the kind of thing. It's kind of an – when I said it's an ongoing process, to stay sane, I am trying to check in with myself and be like, what do you need this news for?

Right. What are you actually looking for? Yeah. Do you need it for your job to be better informed? Or are you just sort of doom scrolling or just, you know, anxious about something? Like, there's no need for that. Like, what am I looking for? And I do the same thing on threads or on TikTok or on instance less on TikTok on Instagram.

And you feel when you're like, okay, but I did just get like a weird dopamine hit from something that made me feel better about the state of the world. And then I'm like, is that what we're looking for? Like, it's like drinking or binge eating. Like, it is a really addictive thing that you have to control. And instead, when I'm not on it all the time, like I have an offline interview that I'm preparing for for the other podcasts I do for this Friday. And the person I'm talking to just wrote a book. And I was like, instead of scrolling through Twitter, I will read this book. And you know what?

It's a great book. Right. And it made me thought. And that brought me some calm. Yeah. And then when I wake up in the morning, then I wake up in the morning, that you know, that's a great book. Then I dive into the morning tip sheets and the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, and Politico. And I'm like, all right, what are the top stories?

What might we be talking about on the many pods that we do here and make sure I'm informed about all of that? But also give myself time to, like, come up with my own take as opposed to just like reading all the different takes online. And that usually helps a bit more. Okay. And I try to think, I think because I am like, you know, a activist, strategist. staffer at heart. I read the news with an eye towards, okay, if I'm going to be talking about this on the pod, what kind of information could I give someone that could help them convince someone in their life to go vote for the first time, vote for a Democrat when they weren't going to vote for

Democrat before, or just persuade people to think or act differently, which is the purpose of politics. Right. Have you changed over the course of the last decade with how you speak to people and try to convince them, people that are living in a different reality? Yes, I have. When I was in the White House, when I was working for Obama, I was very good about, I think because it was my job, a speechwriter, but I was good about trying to figure out how to persuade people. Okay.

And I have empathy for people who don't think like you and you're trying. But there was also an element then, because back then it's not like, you know, all the White House staffers had Twitter accounts and we're public, like you weren't supposed to be that public. And so I sort of have like bottled up all these thoughts and takes of my own. And so then I left the White House in 2013. And I think the first several years I spent on social media was like, now I'm going to uncork and say what I really think and yell. And then after a while I'm like, all right, to what end is this?

Am I doing this? Yeah. Like so that people who already agree with me can be like, yes, like, retweet, great. and I started, I think, moving back towards the mindset I had when I was in the White House, which is the purpose of doing this, if there's any purpose, is to try to convince people to do something they weren't going to do. And that can be, you know, change their political views like from left to, you know, from right to left. Or it can be to change their views from what I do doesn't matter to actually I do want to vote or I do want to join a campaign or volunteer or donate, right?

And so I've tried to figure out what is going to be most useful in terms of getting someone to participate in politics who wasn't going to participate. And that's why we have Vote Save America, which we started, which is sort of the arm of crooked media that gets people involved and gets people donating and all that kind of good stuff. It's tough. I used to be a lot more inflammatory. And I realized I'm not drawing anyone in. I'm actually pushing them away from whatever my cause may be. But I still dabble because I still have to be like, you guys are. fucking idiots.

Yeah, because we're humans. Sometimes you just get angry. Same with me. I mean, anyone who's listening to this and follows me, they're like, okay, buddy, you're still like yelling about shit. It's like, you know I am because sometimes I can't help it. Right, exactly. So this is a load of question, but what is at stake in the midterms?

For not someone that's completely uninformed, we can start at ground zero. But what do you feel is at stake and could change with a blue wave? All right. So if Democrats won the House, which I think is very likely, feel very good about that. Then Donald Trump will never sign another piece of legislation, never pass another law as long as he's president, unless somehow a bunch of Democrats agree. Right. Which if they did, it would probably be a piece of legislation that was fine. Right.

But yeah. So his legislative agenda is dead if the Democrats win the House. If we win the Senate, then Sam Alito decides to retire, Clarence Thomas decides to retire, then there will not be a Donald Trump appointed Supreme Court justice to fill those seats, which is huge. I do worry that if we don't win the Senate, which I think we are favorites to win the Senate, but I would not say huge favorites. Like I feel good about the midterms, but if it turns out the day after the midterms,

we won the House and came like a seat shy in the Senate, I won't be shocked because it's close. But if we don't win the Senate, then I can see Alito retiring next year, maybe even Thomas, and then Donald Trump has two Supreme Court seats that he's going to replace those two old guys with, you know, 20-something-year-old fucking crazy right-wing MAGA people. So that's those are the stakes. Okay. And that means we're waiting a long time because then we've got Roberts is young, Amy Coney-Barritt's young, Yeah. Kavanaugh's young.

And then if you get two more young ones, then you've got five young Supreme Court justices. That could be like 30 years of that. Do the lifetime terms there make you feel insane? Yeah. Like, I think it lives rent-free in my head. I think that our Constitution things, it's held up pretty well. We have a pretty decent system for having it be hundreds of years old. Yeah.

And that might be the fatal flaw. It's creaking. It's creaking under the weight of this many hundred years. years. Yeah, no, and I don't know that, look, back then when they had like lifetime limits in the Supreme Court, you know, life expectancy was not what it is today either. So it wasn't, I don't think the founders envisioned someone would sit on the court for 40, 50 years. And Mitch McConnell would be rolling his corpse onto the Senate floor. Yeah. No, I would love to do term limits on the Supreme Court. Yeah. Okay. What are the polls predicting? I mean, overall, you just kind of say you think House,

probably not said it, but like what are we seeing that feels positive that we have to really worry about, I mean, kind of overall? I mean, so polls are polls, and so it's always tough to fall in love with any good poll. But even if you take the polls away and you look at special elections that we've had since Trump was sworn in for second term, if you look at the off-year elections in 2025, if you look at even the primary voting, right, Democrats outvoted Republicans in these primaries. And like each one of these data points on their own is not enough to like feel great about a blue wave. But basically all of the different factors and measures that you would want to see a line for a blue wave have aligned for a blue wave that even if you put the polls aside.

And also, again, like, Donald Trump or his party have never been on the ballot in the Trump era when gas prices are this high, when inflation is this bad. So much violence. Yeah, like the challenge with politics in the Trump era has been the people who are paying close attention to politics are very unhappy. Most of the country is not paying close attention to politics. And so they change their political views or their political behavior based on how they feel. and how their lives are going. And unfortunately, for all of us who were trying to, you know, beat Trump earlier, in the first Trump term, we all thought he was pretty bad. And I think he was pretty bad.

Yeah. But most people were like, yeah, I think he's kind of an asshole. But like, I don't know, the economy. Yeah, my life's okay. Yeah. Economy's good. I don't see ice in the streets. Right.

I'm not paying the crazy amounts for, you know, groceries because he started a trade war. Like, things are mostly fine. I yearn for Trump 1.0. The golden days. Also, there was somewhat competent people around him. I mean, you know, I think that's obviously what people, critical thinkers were so afraid of with the second term. Yes. Sure enough.

Sure enough. But yeah, no. So I think we haven't gone through an election cycle where people are this pissed off who don't really pay close attention to politics. It's just that they are in a cult. I mean, I don't even really say that to be funny. Like, if you really, you're in a call, your mind has been brainwashed or you just are that racist that, like, your life is terrible, but you can still punch down on a person of color or an immigrant or something like that. And that's how you get your kicks. Like, that's really the only answer because your lives are terrible.

For some of his base. Yeah. I think the reason he won in 2024 is there was a significant group of 2024. Did he? Or? Yes, he did. Don't you feel like they've admitted that, okay, you know what? No, no.

I'm not going to go on this road. Don't worry. He won. He won. Okay. But young people, Latinos, some black men, younger black men. So there were a group of voters in 2024 who just hadn't voted for Trump before.

And we're like, you know what? Because they were upset about the economy under Biden, they were upset about inflation, which again, not Joe Biden's fault, COVID's fault. I just, we are all dealing. It's like people just forgot the shit sandwich that Joe Biden was handed. Also because no one wants to remember the pandemic. Right. Right.

We all have like PTSD from that. And so people were like, well, I remember Trump one. And I think he's, I remember a voter on a focus group. And Sarah Longwell does focus groups all the time. She's at the bulwark. And I always remember this because she'd set it through our 2024. This voter was like, you know what? I think I'm going to vote for Trump again.

Why? Like, well, you know what? I think he's an asshole. But I'm just going to mute the TV and not watch him for four years and not listen to anything he said and just enjoy the Trump economy. And so there was that. And I think all those people now are like, no, fuck this. Of course.

But I do see how you can get there where you're like, you know, it's my 2017 and my 2018 and my 2019 were a lot better than this present day 2022, 2022, 23. Like, if that's really all you're basing on without any other critical thinking, like, I guess I do see how you get there. And it is, it's people's lives. I mean, like, you know, I saw this happen here in L.A. During the mayoral race with the all the people who were like flirting with voting for Spencer Pratt.

And I was like, oh, wait, wait, what? No. What? Oh, we have to take this seriously. But people are, you know. You know, people are living their lives. And if suddenly they see a bunch of crime on their street or their kids are going to school and there's, you know, homelessness in their neighborhood or a fire happens. And suddenly they feel helpless because no one in the city is responding.

Like, it doesn't matter what party they are or what party the people in power. They're going to vote them out and vote in people who tell you that like this shit is fucked and I'm going to fix it. Right. And you don't have to be, you know. Goherent. Yeah. Or you don't have to be like in a cult, right? Like you don't have to be like a Trump voter.

Like you don't have to have any specific thing wrong with you. You just to be a person who's pissed off. Totally. You know. And in terms of voter suppression, are you seeing the administration MAGA Republicans, whatever you want to call them, really try? Like, are you? I mean, they have tried.

They had just, you know, their mail-in executive order, mail-in-voting executive order that was going to limit mail-in-voting was struck down by the Supreme Court because they just haven't been able to succeed. Now, like, everyone's worried about ICE agents at the polls. Maybe. But I actually think if a bunch of federal agents are running around the polls, like, that's going to, I think that's going to cause a backlash. Like, I think people are going to be, like, crawling over glass to get to the polls. Yeah. In this election. Ice agents be damned.

I know. That's my big thing. I get too, like, worked up about, like, if you were to ask me, my biggest thing of this presidency, like, that's the thing that, like, has, you know. Same. Yeah. So. It has kept me up at night. But, I mean, do you feel like we are being, not us, but Americans, groomed to accept this violence and just desensitives?

Like, this was all part of the plan. I mean, I know a lot of this was outlined in Project 2025. I go crazy when I think about the document was available publicly, and this was all part of the plan. But I think that's – I'm kind of asking and you and also kind of venting. Like, I feel like the violence on our streets is just really warping us to accept – I mean, even what we – I think we just saw someone get beat up at a rally. Like all of those little things. I mean, just in general with violence against women and we're seeing with Cornell, like all the things this amalgamation is making us just accept. violence and we've seen this play out before.

I would doubt that it was an intentional plan because these idiots, they don't put a lot of thought into these things. But it's certainly the outcome. Yeah. And I don't know if it's just them. I think it's just like the culture we live in now. And I think it's the fact that politics is largely mediated through these social media platforms where we are only seeing the worst of each other.

And I do worry that it dehumanizes us and desensicizes us to violence. And like if you look through history, that is what's happened to societies before. And it doesn't have to be someone's master evil plan. It can be a bunch of people in power who are careless, reckless, selfish. And like the violence. And like the violence. And believe as certainly as Stephen Miller believes and some of these guys that we are in a survival of the fittest world. And so it's we are governed by strength and force and power.

and, you know, democracy is for pussies. Right. That's basically their view of the whole thing. Right. And that's what's so scary. And a Pete Hegset who thinks he's playing Call of Duty with the country. And, like, he wants us to watch the execution. Like, he wants that.

Yes. That's what's so scary. Like, we're not built the same. No, the government is inviting us to be spectators to the death of a human being. But you can't go to a drag show or watch Miss Rachel. Right. And these books aren't available in the library. Like, I feel crazy.

Right. Yeah. I worry about that the most because it is more of a gradual thing. But it's also why no matter how dark it gets and frustrating it gets, I think I keep banging my head against the wall and doing this. Because if we all just give up, then it's going to get worse faster. And the only thing you can do, like what the time you can do. like what the time you have here is to just fight back and know that like we've gone through periods like this before and the pendulum swings in a very bad direction and then it swings back and it

doesn't swing back on its own it swings back because people are like I'm not going to deal with this anymore right I just say I want I just want to survive it I know it sounds so bleak I just want me and my husband and my family and my friend I want to survive it yes like we will get through it and you know that's really that's that's dark but um do Democrats typically go out more on a midterm election, like in the last 10 years because Trump's not on the ballot. Like, I find hope in that because I feel like— Do we go out? Do we what? Go out to vote more.

Oh, oh, oh, oh. Yes, in a way. What happened in—there's this like—there's been a realignment of voting coalitions in the Trump era where for a while, the sort of wealthiest and most college-educated voters were—or. Republican and Democrats won with the working class. Isn't that crazy? And then it started shifting. Sounds like your line. Yeah, right.

It started shifting as far back as the Clinton era. And there grew this professional class of voters who startedly became more socially liberal. Now they're also more economically liberal. But we have basically switched. And so the Democratic coalition is highly educated, very engaged voters. Yeah. And the Republican coalition is. like non-college educated, lower-income voters.

Now that's race. It's also, so it's white voters. And Latinos now are becoming more like white voters in the sense that there's a college, non-college divide that explains the Latinos that were losing to the Republican Party. And it's starting to happen with black voters, though, with there, because there's such a tradition of civil rights in the Democratic Party, it's taken longer. And so in a presidential election, everyone shows up. at least the most voters show up.

Right. Because. That's a Super Bowl. Yeah. And people who don't pay attention to politics and who are not college educated and they all come to the polls and they are Trump voters. And that's why Trump has done better. And in the midterms, you get a smaller electorate.

And so the smaller electorate is better for. Totally. I feel like we saw this with the last midterms. Like, yeah. Yes. This red wave that was supposed to happen. And special elections, we do even better. Totally.

Because it's even smaller. Love a special election. That's my think. Now, is it great that high turnout no longer helps Democrats? No, it's not great. We are going to need to expand the coalition to win back voters who show up in presidential elections or else we will be screwed. Yeah. Which is why when you ask me at the beginning, like, do I feel great about the midterms? I do. But the real challenge is taking back the White House in 2028. And for that, we have a lot of work to do. Yeah. Okay. Let's, we'll start day by day. One day at a time. Yeah. We don't have to worry about that now. Okay. I'm just going to take a quick break to tell you guys about the Columbia sportswear amaze puff. I love this.

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I mean, anything, any tips for people? I mean, just check your voter registration. I mean, anything to look out for to make sure you're good to go. Honestly, if you go to Vote Save America, it's a one-stop shop. Everything is there. You can check your registration. Oh, yeah, great. You can look for links to get registered if you're not.

You can figure out if you want to volunteer some of your time. If you're in a swing state or swing district, we'll give you plenty of work to do. Even if you're not, we can connect you with someone who will give you work. And then also, if you want to donate, instead of just because everyone's getting spammed with all these texts, like donate, donate dinner and emails. This is the thing that would turn me Republican. Yes, I know. It's crazy.

It's got to stop. And so we have like a Senate fund and a House fund where we make sure we only have the most competitive races that actually need money the most. And we sort of like switch races in and out to make sure that like it's the best bang for your buck. Okay. So what are you at like name a few now? What are you into? What are you guys? What are you?

What are your top three favorite races? I mean, I think if I was donating in the Senate, Maine, Michigan. Michigan. Okay. Texas. Yeah. Iowa. Ohio, for sure.

Yeah. Alaska. And those, that's about, that's about the list. Georgia and North Carolina, I think John Oshoff and Roy Cooper have a lot of money. I think they're good. I think, yeah, me too. Yeah. I think they're doing great, so I don't think I wouldn't donate there.

And then in the house, it's hard to know what the most competitive ones are at any given moment, but we have a crooked dozen of 12 Republicans that we're really trying to beat. So check it out. Okay. I'm just, I'm so obsessed with Texas and like what's going on with James Tellerico. And I was like a Jasmine Crockett fan. So I was upset. But then the Chris Brown stuff, I'm like, what happened? Like it's my biggest disappointments of the year, John. He's great though. Chris Brown? No, Tellerica. Oh, Telarico. No, I'm not. I'm not. No. So she really lost me with that. But it was very weird. It was such a weird choice. I don't understand that. I don't understand that. I mean, you're a she's horny, I guess. But it's like you could have gotten the lap dance without giving him the congressional award. Jasmine.

Anyway, but I really have come around on James Telerico and he is what we need. You know, a white Christian man. It's a good person. To win the right people over. Yeah. You know, like, of course I want women and all the things, but it's just like that's bridging the gap. Yeah. Like we need more genuine people in politics who are running because they actually.

actually want to help and they're trying their best and they're not perfect people and they haven't lived perfect lives but also they actually are trying really hard and and just want to connect with people on that level. I do see that like ideology aside a lot of, you know, from the center on over to the left, like the people who are sort of standing out are younger millennial even now Gen Z. People have gotten into politics and are just haven't grown up in the in the trenches of like political warfare for the last like 30 years and are like ready for something new and to offer people something new. Totally.

And also the way that they've experienced politics is in a much more authentic way because they're, you know, whether it's like social media or, I mean, there's all the bad sides of social media, but for a lot of these folks, they just, they can talk to people like normal human beings, which to me is the most important quality you can have as a politician. Yeah. Seems crazy to say. but like, yeah, talking like a normal human being is, it's in high demand and short supply. And I just here for the right reasons.

I don't think. I was like an OG Bernie girl. And it was the first political rally I ever went to in Atlanta. And I think I felt an authenticity with him. And you don't see it with a lot of people, even on the left, you know, where someone really doesn't seem like they're in it for the right reasons. And I feel like you know it when you see it. Bernie is an interesting case, too, because. Because when people think authenticity, sometimes they think, like, well, you need, like, a great personal story and you need to be sort of emotional.

And I want someone who's spot, you know. And I sat with Bernie interviewing him a couple times. I love Bernie. And you'll try to ask him, like, a personal question or two. And he's like, no. That's my boundary. He's like, no, I'm just going to talk about my policies that I want to talk about. And it works because when you're talking to him, you're like, this is what he believes.

He's one-track mind. and he's just pissed. Right. And he's not going to tell you about like the person he met and on the, he's just me like, no, this is what I believe. And if you agree with me, great. And if not, that's okay too. Right.

I just, I feel that it stems from this anger of this isn't right. We don't have to live like this. And I'm going to die trying. And I really just respect it. And I'll like defend him to the death. And I just feel like we don't have many of the. those politicians. It's a confidence in what you believe and what you're doing that also has a certain fearlessness to it. And like I remember when Obama ran, we were running against Hillary

in the primary and she was beating us by a lot at one point. And Obama sort of gathered the whole campaign around. And he was like, look, if I lose this primary, like, I will happily endorse Hillary, I will do everything I can to make her president, and then I will go home to my wife and kids in Chicago and live a happy life. Because, like, I want this job. Yeah. And I think I would be the best candidate to be president, but I don't need this. I'm really laughing that, like, Obama not winning.

He's like, who, like, what a relief, you know, like, I don't really want this anyway. Who would want this job? But you know you should do it. Like, I feel like about this, even with jobs like journalists, it's like you are called to do it. It may be thankless. It may not be high pain. But like, God bless the people that do these jobs just because of the genuine desire and like I'm the person for the job. Yes.

And but like because that was Obama's mindset, he took risks that other politicians don't take because he's like. I don't want it that bad. I mean, after we, after he gave that the speech on race after his like, you know, past. made the incendiary remarks and all that. He gave a very honest speech about race in America that, you know, I helped him write, but he wrote the parts that I could never have written, like, you know, I can no more disown my white grandmother. It can no more disown Reverend Wright than I can, my white grandmother,

who used to say racist things once in a while, like, I would never write that for him. Yeah. But I remember after that speech, he called me and he was like, so I did that. I think it went well. I have no idea if I can get elected president saying what I did about race and being that honest. But I also know that if I was too afraid to say it, I don't really deserve to be president. And I don't deserve a job.

And so like, why not say what I believe? Right. And I think that that's Bernie. I mean, I hate to say that, but that is Donald Trump. Right. And so. Like, I don't even want to do this. And so you have to run like you're not afraid of losing.

Right. And like take big swing, take risk. take risks and don't play it safe. And I swear, Trump, when he took the stage winning a second term, he looked just as confused as us. And he looked furious because he needs to win. He thinks he's a winner, obviously the biggest loser that's ever been in this country. But he really looked like, I don't know if I want to do this. And he doesn't.

No, he doesn't. He just wants to do home rento. Yeah, and golf. And shit his pants. And shit his pants. Yeah, I guess. And, yeah, and just be loved or think that he's loved. Okay.

So I want to talk to you about accountability. And I think you guys had a recent episode about just Pete Heggseth and accountability. And what can congressional oversight accomplish and where are its limits, I guess, is the first question. And in your personal opinion, do you think that we will ever have a version of the Nuremberg trials for all these things that have happened with? with ICE, with the detainment centers, you know, with all of that. I mean, say as much as you want. No, sure, sure. So the limits of oversight are, you know, we don't have, we won't have a super majority to get an impeachment conviction for Trump or any of the cabinet secretaries.

We can try. But I think everyone should go in knowing that we don't have the, you need two thirds of the Senate to convict. So there's that. I think that oversight can expose information that hasn't been exposed so the public can understand what's going on and you get hearings and you get documents and you get witnesses. So there's all that. But I also think everyone should be prepared for Donald Trump giving everyone a pardon that has ever worked for him. Right. Before he leaves office.

Yeah. And now that's federal pardons and this could be tested in court, right? But, like, unfortunately, you were talking about the things the founders didn't exactly get right, along with the lifetime appointments in the Supreme Court. The pardon power being unconditional and that sweeping is, I think, a huge problem. Sure. Because I do worry that he'll pardon everyone. And then they, you know, state, if they commit state crimes, you could see, like, state attorneys general bringing some of these people up on charges if they have, you know, violated state laws. But otherwise, I think it's going to be hard.

And I think that sucks. Yeah, yeah. It's not that I think that the next president should spend a ton of time. Sure. Like, relitigating the last four years because I think as much as some of us would like that, that's not what most of the country wants. But I do think it's important to have some measure of accountability so that it doesn't happen again. I guess where I would go is making sure there, anytime there were norms that Trump violated or traditions or just things the way they were done, I'd put a law in there going forward. Yeah.

instead of just like, well, this is how it's done, and no one has ever done it like this. And we've just sort of relied on all of us realizing that like decorum says, you know, anything that's a norm, I would try to pass legislation so that it's an actual law. Right. That's what I would do going to be going to be, you know, if he does do sweeping pardons, I think it's going to be hard. Is there a limit on pardons? Can it be thousands? No limit. At least that's not what the Constitution. It's just like the pardon power is. Like, it could be anyone who was an ICE agent if you really wanted to. Could be.

It's going on a dark road. But, you know, I just, I, it is really disheartening to think that people have lost their lives, you know, and children have been traumatized forever. And we don't know what's going on inside these centers. And this is the stuff that keeps me up at night. Yeah. I think in some of the ice stuff, you know, there's state investigations already going on into some of the ice stuff. I also think there's civil lawsuits that they're not going to, you know, so, like, you know, so. Like, I think there's measures of accountability.

Federal criminal liability is the one that I worry. Got it. Okay. So get them on the state level. Okay. And in terms of just information consumption, because again, this is something that just like consumes me. Like when Alex Pready was shot, I just, that was my weekend. Like I couldn't do anything else.

My husband and I took a trip to live in a beach. We were trying to enjoy ourselves. And I like had to leave a restaurant in tears. Like, how do you compartmentalize and I guess even digest information so you're not constantly raging? or sad, you know, like, do you... I try to control the controllables. Yeah. I try to respond to information thinking, okay, is this something I can do something about?

Right. Or is this something that's just going to spin me out? Yeah. So I try to do that. But I also, I think it's important to let yourself feel some of this. Yeah. Because I don't want to compartmentalize so much that it just sort of bounces off. Well, that's the desensitization.

That's the point. Yeah. Whether it's intentional or not. It's funny. I was just watching the, I got an advanced screener of the Elon documentary that just came out. Oh, that he was trying to block. Yeah, the one that he's been trying to block. Yeah, Alex Gibney's doc, and it's four hours long.

I love all these docs. But it was intense. Yeah. And so I'm watching it all and I'm getting like angry and angry and angry and you're watching it. And then it wasn't until like the last hour they get to shutting down USAID. And which along with ICE is another. you know, thing I'll remember from the second term term forever. And I also, you know, our godmother of our child was at USAID. And so watching her go through it all was tough and we're close with

Samantha Power, who ran USAID because she worked in the Obama administration. And at some point in the dock, they're talking about all the people who died because of this and they interview Samantha. And I didn't, like, I haven't seen her do an interview since she was, left USAID. And she starts talking about the kids they could saved and she broke down during the interview and I'm watching this and I like cried for like the first time and I don't know how long about politics but it's just like it's sort of like it builds up you know because you can only deal with so much of it until suddenly you're like oh no I'm a human and this is awful. We have to go through the day you have to you have a child you know like you have to yeah and so every once in a while it does hit yeah and then you're like okay well I'm going to

have a little bit of a cry and then I'll go back to just scrolling and yelling. Well, what are your thoughts on meaningful activism? Like, how can someone start small? I mean, obviously vote and use your right to vote. But how can people actually feel like they're doing something? Do you have tips for that? Yeah, I think getting involved in local politics helps.

I think even if you care more about national politics, but you want to be involved in your own community, that helps. I think, you know, we are getting to the point now where knocking on random doors and calling people is tough to get an answer. You can still do it. you know, we were in Austin for the coordinated campaign there, Tala Rico, everyone else, Gina, Yinojosa, and we, you know, knocked on doors for an afternoon in Austin. You know, a lot of people aren't home. Some people don't want to hear from you. But some people are like, yeah, I'm going to vote. How do I, where do I vote? And how do I help get help making a plan? And you're like, if you can talk to one person like that in two hours, yeah, that's still something. Somebody, yeah. And, but I also think you can be very persuasive in your own social networks. And so the question we always get is like, what do I do about the uncle that's the Trump voter?

It's like, well, at some point, maybe don't talk to the uncle about politics. But maybe you have a cousin or a friend who has voted in the past but is now feeling like, why does my vote even matter? And maybe you can convince them. And maybe you can say, hey, did you see this? What do they care about? What issues do they care about? Hey, did you see this piece? Have you thought about whether you're going to vote?

and maybe if you actually get involved this time, like you could make a difference. It could matter in your life. So I do think like getting involved in your own social circles and social network and seeing if everyone has a plan to vote, seeing if they're going to vote, seeing if they can persuade other people. Like that is a way to feel useful without doing the whole, how am I going to convince the Trump voter in my life thing. Right.

Yeah. I guess some people you just never will. That's right. And that's okay. Yeah. I have plenty of relatives who are. Trump voters and yeah. I'm so sorry.

I don't have any. I don't have a ton, but I have one family where like the one of my relatives is like my aunt is a Trump voter and like her grandson is like so far to the left that like thinks the Democrats are all bad too. And I'm like, you know what? I can't talk to either about politics that much. Like I'm just going to talk to them about other things. Yeah. And I'm like, why I'm not going to, you know, I've known my hat for my whole life. What am I going to convince her now?

What's the point in arguing about politics? Yeah. I mean, but it's like that's why people are desperate with this question. What am I supposed to do? I mean, this is my parents, you know, and just in general, disagreeing about politics or I don't do politics. I love this quote that's like, well, maybe they're going to do you. Yeah. You know, like so.

They are. But you posted something and I remember resharing it of if you're not speaking out now. Like, now is the time, essentially. And so we've come to such an inflection point. This is not 2017, 2022. Like, this is so different. So people are obviously having such a much harder time with it. And people are losing friends and not going home for the holidays.

And so I'm just curious of how you navigate a fundamentally different value system with someone in your life. And I have plenty of people in my life like this as well. if you were someone who maybe at the beginning of the Trump era, you got involved, but then 10 years later, 10 years into this, you're either exhausted or you're like, I don't want to speak out. You speak out and someone yells at you and you get in trouble and like, what if I say the wrong thing? Then I would think to yourself, actually, this is a moment to speak out because the stakes are extremely high and don't worry about saying the wrong thing. There's plenty of other people talking. You can amplify. their voices. You can talk to the people in your own life if you don't want to be posting to a whole, you know, publicly about a whole bunch of people. But like, there's strength in numbers. And the more people who speak out, it might not seem like it makes the biggest difference, but it does make the biggest difference. I think people notice. People notice. Well, now I wanted to talk. I didn't plan on talking about this with you, but I want to talk about the left and where they go wrong and the policing.

And, you know, I have such a problem with this. And just. Just there is this purity politics of it all. I have such a huge problem with this. I mean, this is obviously you see it scrolling social media. And you're like, you're supposed to be, we're supposed to be in the same team here. This is an aside, but an example is just with what happened with Cornell. And this whole, I saw this whole side of TikTok or threads or whatever, like, don't call in the Cornell 7. I'm like, let people call them whatever they want if they're speaking out against this.

Like the language policing. scene and you didn't say this right, you didn't do this right, and the infighting between the left, and this just hurts us so much, this is our problem. I feel like this is our core wound. It is, you know, I haven't, I haven't talked about the Cornell case, partly because I'm like, this is a, I don't know all the details. Right. I'm not at the school. I'm not, like, I know what I see online, but what? We're not, I'm not going to go by what I see online. And so then someone's well, then, you know, don't you, well, if, if you care about the issue, then, then, And if you're at another college or you're in a community or you have kids or you are, you know, like deal with it in your own life and your own community in a way where you're sitting down with people face to face and having these discussions that can be difficult discussions.

But there's not a lot of benefit to yelling about it with each other online. I know. Because like I do this with politics because at the end of the day someone's going to go vote for something. But like we're waiting on the corner. Like we're going to wait for an investigation. Maybe it'll turn up something. Maybe it won't. We don't know what's going to happen.

I just saw today that Cornell is going to redo all of their policies. And so they're getting rid of fraternity parties and they're now going to be sexual assault investigation. So like they have taken a step, right? And did they take a step because there was public pressure? Yes. Is public pressure good? Absolutely. But it goes beyond public pressure when people are like arguing with each other about a case that is not in their life and in their community that they have nothing to do with.

But they're trying to like win an argument on. line. And you could say this about any number of issues. Exactly. Yeah. And sometimes I get involved when I shouldn't get involved. But like, I always try to remind myself, like, is the outcome of this argument going to lead to some kind of a change or contribute to a change that has a tangible outcome? And if yes, then like maybe I can push. But if no, what am I doing screaming about this? Sure. And also what am I doing? Like, people come to these issues with varying levels of knowledge and they are maybe not as tuned in as you. Maybe they are in a,

they probably are in a different information ecosystem than you. So they have been exposed to information that is different than yours. And so if you think they're wrong or you think they said the wrong thing, then what is the best way to convince them of that? Is it to yell at them? Is it to tell them that they don't belong in your party

or in your movement? Or is it to say like, hey, I hear that you said that and it doesn't, I don't, not sure I agree, but I want to know where you're coming from and then maybe we can have common ground. Right. But even to your point, like you saying you haven't really discussed it, I don't know, have you gotten messages?

You don't care about it. You know, like we just have this mob mentality about everything. Yeah. Not just politics. Kelly Clarkson right now, you know, with the bird. And like, it's just a mob mentality, which I'm obsessed with, by the way. But I've gotten this, too, the things I choose to discuss. I'm like, I'm on the right side history and I'm staying the course and I'm making an impact

where I think that I can, and I cannot tackle every terrible thing that happens in every community in every country. Right. I'm kind of focused on the U.S. And that's people come for me and for everybody. You haven't talked enough about what's going on in whatever country. I'm not going to name names and get people riled up. But it's just like I am hyper focused on the shit show where I live.

And that's where I feel like I can make an impact with my podcast and my platform. And so I really have such a problem with this from our own. quote unquote side when it comes to left. Politics as addition, like, it's unsimble to say, but like you win elections. And like the purpose of politics is to build power so that you can use that power to change things, right, for people. And the way that we have things set up here is that you build that power by bringing more people together and having a bigger coalition than the other side. Yeah. And there is no universe in which you're going to build a coalition that is,

a majority coalition with everyone that believes what you believe. That's just not the case. It's never how it's been in this country. Right. Yeah. It's never how it's been in any country in the history of the world. So the idea that everyone has to have your exact positions and now people will say, yes, but on this issue, this is the non-negotiable issue. Well, sure, everyone has a non-negotiable issue. That's why you believe in it so deeply. Right. But sometimes you're going to have to have people in your tent that believe things that you don't believe. Right. And it is useful for them to vote the way you want them to vote. And then if they somehow take power for that issue that you disagree with them on, then you can fight them on that.

Right. Totally. I totally. I mean, and I, I just, I'm like, what has happened to us? Because I just think back to pre-Trump and I lived in Atlanta. And I just know so many of the people I was hanging around with, but not my best core friends. We all knew where we were aligned, but pre-Trump. Trump even, you know, with our value system. But like, probably at dinner with half the table on a, you know, Friday night of people who were Republicans. It didn't matter. It didn't, I didn't come up. They voted for Mid Romney. I didn't care. You know, like, that's the scariest part of what we've become in the past 10 years. And the social media is just amplified it so much more. And so I get, I get worked up about this stuff. Even when I see it in the Taylor Swift community, I'm like, just leave her alone. Aren't she supposed to be a fan? Like, I swear. Sometimes I get too invested in other things that remind me of the political system. Because it's all, I mean, but it is, it is, it is, it is, it is almost 100% online. Yes. And that is the thing because you can, I have talked to Republicans in real life.

I've talked to people who are further to the left than me in real life, who are activists, organizers, people who are in politics. And nine times out of ten, they are always more pragmatic, even if they are ideologically, way further than me to the left or right, they are still more pragmatic than the discussion online. Yes. Especially if you work on a campaign or if you've worked for a cause or an organization and you have had to go around and convince people to take an action who might not agree with you, it doesn't matter what you believe, you are going to naturally be more

pragmatic because you've had that experience of what it takes to convince someone. And you don't have to have that experience online. You're so, I mean, yeah, everybody has an online person. personality and a real life personality. Yeah. So since we're talking about online, what are you feeling about the bot farms being bombed? Do you, have you seen a difference? Have you noticed?

I haven't noticed a difference, but I've noticed people posting about a difference. Yeah. Which is not totally surprising to me. Yeah. Because it's real. The bot farms are real. Now, the bot farms aren't on their own making everything awful, but they are an amplification tool.

Exactly. Which is what social media is anyway. So I think it's a net positive. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, let's get rid of all the body bars. The hero we need. Who saw this company? Look, there is a, you know, someone would only buy Twitter back from Elon Musk or some of the, you know, you could have a lot of these social platforms that are not algorithmically juiced, that do not have the for you feeds.

Yeah. That it's just about who you're following. And, you know, you take away the quote tweet. I mean, there's like a couple things you could do that would make it a much. a much better, it wouldn't make it perfect, but it would make it a much better experience for people. I get really fired up about this just with Instagram specifically. Like, you should have to verify your identity. In some way, you can, two seconds, you can create a new account.

You can have a bunch per email address. Like, just there's one extra layer they could just snap their fingers and do that would make it so much better and make people less bullied and safer. I mean, the meanest things I've ever read about myself online are for someone, no avatar, no follow me. This is a fake account. I know. They could so easily do anything. Like, why am I having more verification to shop on an online store? Yeah.

Two-factor verification to buy a pair of jeans. I know. But you can create an Instagram account and start bullying people. Yes. You know. It's bad. It's bad. And I've noticed it too where I used to think Instagram was like the friendly place.

Mm-hmm. Because I remember Instagram from like, it was, this is where my friends and family and I would share pictures. And now it's like, because when I, when I, took Twitter off my phone. It's like, I got to scroll something. And I was like scrolling Instagram. I'm like, ah, it's so much crap. It feels like another version of Twitter now. Yeah. Because it's just feeding you stuff. I'm like, I didn't want any of this. I'm not following any of these people. It just depends on who it gets served to. Like, I'll have a clip even from our podcast, and it's all fun in games and all the girlies are in there and hyping me. And I post this

thing recently about this revenge. I got on this guy that goes to me. And it was so fun. It was such a good day. And then I don't know what happened. The men infiltrated it. And I'm just getting slutshamed. She's lying. It's crazy. And you feel it. And you feel it. It's like I know when it's happening, I'll see the nastiest comment from some guy. I'm like, I'm going viral. Like, it's so sad that something is popping off and you're like, and now I'm about to get bullied off the internet. My wife, Emily will always say, like, when I'm in like a Twitter fight, she can tell because I'm quiet. Yes.

And she can see, like, my jaw going in the house. And then sometimes she'll be like, oh, she'll look at Twitter and be like, I knew he was in a fight. They know. Of course they know. Do you read the comments? Like, do you read comments on Pod Save, might save any sort of clips? Not generally. Okay.

Once in a while, but not generally. And what I've done on Twitter is I only get notifications from people who I follow. So if I go to notifications, the only comments are from people who I've chosen to follow. Self-care. So I don't. Don't read it. Okay. One more burning question.

And then I promise we'll wrap up. Who are you into presidential run on the left? For a while, I was like, to be honest. No one is jumping out at me. And now I really do like John Assov. Oh. But I don't know if he's going to run. Zad?

And got to see a lot more because he's in a Senate race now and the presidential race is a whole different beast. Yeah. But I think he's got promise. We'll see. I think Pete Buttigieg is very smart. Love Pete. He's the best. I think AOC is one of the better communicators in our party.

Okay. But, you know, harder for someone on the left, but we'll see. If anyone could do it on the left, it's her. And then, you know, beyond that, I'm still waiting. If Osloff doesn't run or maybe they both run, but Raphael Warnock in Georgia, the other senator, is also wonderful. Georgia politics, man. I mean, I lived there for 11 years and it just wasn't this spicy. And I don't, is that the best state to watch?

I mean, it's fun. It might be. Yeah. So, yeah, you know, all of the, I'm. What do you feel about Gavin Newsome? I love Gavin as a, like, as our governor and I've gotten to know him. I think it's tough for anyone from California to run for national office. I think about Gavin.

I think about Tomlin Harris. We're just like too successful. We're just like the biggest economy. Everything is beautiful. It feels like we're on vacation every day. I know, I know. I'm so, like it's so part of about the hate for California. I think a lot of it is unwarranted.

I think some of it is like states where there are. There is Democratic governance, supermajorities in a legislature, Democratic governor, and then there are still problems with housing, prices, homeless. Like, people are just going to be like, what the fuck? This is, you know? And like every far left liberal thing that people complain about has happened in California. It's just there's. This is like Newsomicide, like whoever runs from. I get it.

But I, God, I've listened to a podcast of him. I think it was on Rachel Lindsay's podcast. talk about how impressive California actually is, the stuff that no one talks about. And it's like, he does do that. He gives the best case. But we know the bad stuff, too. You know, there's so much that we have good going on that red states could never, could literally never.

Also, it's the, you know, fifth largest economy in the world. Of course. And so it's hard to govern California. That's what it's like, it's a beast. It's not like governing a smaller state. I don't know how he's doing it. It's like governing the country. It's like governing a small country.

It's like being the president of 50 states. Yeah. It's not easy. It shouldn't be a job. That's true. I'm ready to secede. Okay. So did they prep you on this segment that we were going to do, the dating?

No, but I know that you guys do it. And so I started thinking. Okay. Honestly, my first thought was, I have not dated in 12 years. This can be in your marriage. More, actually. 15 years. Okay.

So we are doing dating hack and dating whack. Yeah. So the dating hack, it can be in your marriage or it can be something that worked with your wife earlier. early on, something like unconventional, maybe. Did you have any moves? Like, what did you, would you talk about Obama on a first date? You know, like, I don't know. I did. I did talk about Obama. I did talk about Obama in the first date. 100%. Well, because, yeah, it was very funny. We met at a bar in D.C. Okay. And it was like Georgetown, Glover Park area, which is like more of a Republican, it was like a Republican area bar. So Emily thought, Emily was like, oh, I work for,

I'm interning for a senator. But you probably wouldn't. like him. Oh. And I'm like, oh, well, she's like from Ohio. And I was like, oh, Rob Portman. This is how dorky it was. She's like, no, Sherrod Brown. I'm like, oh. I'm like, well, I work in the White House. She's like, you do? I was like, yeah. So that was how we, that was, that was how we first connected. Okay. Assuming the other one was a Republican. Really? That's so funny. Well, I like that. We both presented a little Republican at that bar in D.C. I would not say that was a dating hack, though. Present Republican.

My dating hack was always, and this worked out with Emily as well, which was like the first date I always find very easy. Okay. Because you find out everything about the other person and they find everything about you and you're just like you're telling your life story. The second date is always the real, the really tough date. And so for second dates, let's go out with friends. Her friends, my friends, but let's have like a big group. We're hanging out. And if you can hang with my friends, if I can hang with my friends, if I can hang with you.

your friends and everyone's laughing, having a good time, then that, that bridges the first date to second date problem, which is always if you just do a like a quiet dinner for the second day after the first date, then it's like, well, I've done all my material on the first date. So now what are we going to do? So that was my dating. It's really great. And we have interviewed all the experts in the dating world over the last eight years. And I think of Esther Perel talking about you want to see someone in their element, you know,

a second date that might feel early to some people for a group hang. It's not. You know, meet them where they're at, see how they are in their real life. Yeah. And rather than just staying across from them at a dinner. And that is Emily hung out with all of us on the second date. I love this. These friends are funny.

And sure enough. I could. Yeah. Were they bad friends? Or no friends? Or no friend. We just watched I love you, man, recently. Have you seen like Paul Ryan at the Jason Siegel?

Okay. Do you have a dating whack? Something you just... This is another, this is like a DC thing, too. So maybe it's not everywhere. but people who are too self-serious, I just, I can't. Yeah. Like, I want to know that someone can be self-deprecating from the jump.

Immediately. I try to be that. Right. I'm like, and this is not, like, you can take politics seriously. You can take your job seriously. You can take anything seriously. Just don't take yourself seriously. Yeah.

And people in D.C. tend to take themselves very seriously. And I can't help. Like, you've got to be able to joke around. Yeah. I had a friend recently. She had to break up with a guy over this. It wasn't, I don't know.

He was a grown man. He was 40 years old. That's how he was. He's got to find the right person for him. Right. And yeah, there will be a good, a right person for you. Like, he couldn't make fun of her. Like, he couldn't be self-deprecating himself.

Like, she was just like, there's so much else good here. He's a nice guy. He's tall and hot and has a job and a home, you know, and he just couldn't get there. And he's not going to at that age. And he'll need to find the person who wants to post an inspirational quote on Instagram, not ironically. And that'll be the right match for him. dating sounds brutal these days. I, like, I met Emily right as, like, the apps were starting to take.

It was like, like, I think Tinder was like the next year or something. So I never did dating apps. Boy, am I glad. Yeah, it's traumatizing. And I will say. I have plenty of friends who have and I sat with them through it. But it's like, it sounds rough. We have toured all over in D.C. is one of our favorite places to do shows.

And we've done a lot of shows there and great theater. there, the Warner or the Lincoln. Like, we just really love to see the DC improv. Like, it's really such a great place for comedy. And we would ask people what it's like to date in your city all over. We did every major city in America when we were on the specific tour. That was like one of our segments. And people would write in and we would crowdsource on Instagram.

And it was so much fun because it was so specific to the city. People felt really seen. D.C. was the most specific. D.C. was one of the most fun cities to shit off. Because it was just the politics of it all. Hi, nice to meet you. What do you do? Where do you work? I was just going to say that. That's exactly what everyone said. I think we would play it on stage of how we got hundreds of comments. Like, what do you do? So what do you do? So what do you do? Right out of the gate. High school cafeteria, D.C. That's what it is. And it's funny. I like, I went to a very small high school, graduate with 100 people, went to a pretty small college. And then I went to D.C. And I'm like, is there anything out there but places where you know everyone and then have to ask everyone? Like, it's crazy.

And then I remember when I moved to Chicago for the Obama campaign from D.C. And I went out to bars in Chicago. And I'm like, whoa, people here are so nice. And they talk about things that are not just politics. And you can just have conversations with people. What a great city. Totally. Yeah.

D.C. is a totally different animal. I'm from Boston. And I always think Chicago is a friendlier, friendly or Boston. Yeah. So my husband's from Boston. Okay. We're in Boston. He grew up in Woburn.

Oh my gosh. My grandparents are from. Really? Yeah. I'm from North Redding. Oh, really? Which is like, yeah, a couple of towns away, and we would go to Uberin all the time. Oh, my gosh.

My grandmother's house was there. That's so funny. Yeah. We love Boston and Chicago best city to date in where women will actually even say it. Because women rarely say their city is good to date in. It's tough. Yeah. So New York, L.A.

Tied for first, worst. Then we probably have a D.C. And then the better ones are Chicago. Boston. It's more Chicago, Austin, Denver. Denver used to be Menver, not so much anymore. People don't hate Nashville that much. Oh, yeah.

Minneapolis is pretty good. We hear good things. But Chicago's in the top slot. Yeah. Florida. I can see that. Bad. Oh. No, thank you. Philly. Weird. But go birds. Okay. Well, this was so wonderful. I kept you too long. This was fun. Yeah. Again, we don't do. this lot. So this was really special. And I'm glad you're feeling hopeful about the midterms. And can you tell everybody about CrookedCon? Yes. So right after the midterms in D.C., the greatest place to date. We are having our second annual CrookedCon where we're going to just have all kinds of the better politicians, strategists, organizers, everyone's going to gather. We did this. This is our second year doing it. Last year, it was like a wild success. And we're going to have like two days of live

shows, conversations, panels, where you get to meet people, you get to break down what just happened in the election. And then we're sort of kicking off the debate for 2028. And yeah, so we're going to be November 5th through 7th if you go to crookedcon.com. You can get tickets. And we'll have a Potsave America live show, love or leave it live show, strict scrutiny, all the still counting, all of all your favorite shows. And we'd love to come hang and hang out with you. I got to say, this is a good place to find a like-minded person. Oh, yeah, for sure. So I go there to date. That's a great place to Yeah. Yeah. And it's also like you just pop in and out, you know, so you don't have to be. It's not like the D.C. culture is right. A lot of people fly in for it. Yeah. I know. I have some friends from New York going.

Oh, great. Yeah. Cool. So I have a friend who is very starstruck that I'm here today. Like she's just like, oh my God. Like she would like, she wants to work for you guys basically. Oh, I'll talk about it. I will. I'll talk about. Thanks. And then follow you, Pots, Save America, Votsame America. Yeah. J. Fab is on Instagram. John Fabs on. Twitter and subscribe to our Potsave America YouTube channel and offline. I also do this podcast offline. Yes. Okay, got it. And you guys know where to find us. Girls Gotta Eat.com. Girls got a podcast Instagram and TikTok. I'm Ash Hess on Instagram and TikTok. Raina, who is not here, but you saw her up top is Raina.com. Raina.com for her tour tickets. You can watch full video on Spotify and YouTube. Make sure you're registered to vote, all the things. And we will see Thursday.

This is where Raina says, bye, guys. And now I'm just all thrown off. Can you say bye, guys? Bye, guys. Unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass. Shop online and get the same low No Frills prices delivered. Get your first year of PC Express Pass for just $2.50 a month. Learn more at nofrills.ca.