Girls Gotta Eat - Race and Relationships feat. Fred Smith

Episode Date: June 8, 2020

We're discussing race in all kinds of relationships (romantic, friendships, parents) on this episode with motivational speaker/fitness instructor/friend Fred Smith. We dive into interracial dating, microaggressions, Amy Cooper, Blackout Tuesday, talking to your friends and parents about race, thoughts on the future, and more. We're also sharing the ways our listeners are supporting the Black Lives Matter movement. And we catch up on Ashley's bush and Rayna's mom. Hope you enjoy! Follow Fred on Instagram @FredMSmith and get more info on his Town Hall here. Follow us @GirlsGottaEatPodcast, Ashley @AshHess, and Rayna @Rayna.Greenberg. Check our website for tour dates and merchandise. Thank you to our partners for this episode: HelloFresh: Get $60 off your first month of HelloFresh meals + free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.com/gge60 + code GGE60. Nutrafol: Get 20% off at Nutrafol.com with code GGE. Helix: Helix is offering up to $200 off all mattress orders for our listeners at HelixSleep.com/GGE. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Were you that guy in high school that was like my girlfriend goes to a different school? I was always in the friend zone in high school, Ashley. You were? No! Yeah. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Welcome back. Week 11.

I'm kidding. I don't know. I don't know. I've thought coronavirus was just over. It is. Because coronavirus is still a thing. It is. It is.

We can't take it lightly. But it hasn't been in the news as much. That's for sure. But we're glad to be here. again with your regularly scheduled Monday programming as promised. I just want to say this up top and we'll move on from it. We did have an incident happen. Some of you may be aware.

It was kind of tied back into our Facebook group, but we addressed it last week and I have been overwhelmed with messages, DMs, emails, however you all could find me to say the nicest, sweetest, most positive things. And I just am so thankful. And that's the only reason I'm bringing this up is just to say thank you to everybody. And, you know, a lot of these DMs started with, we know you don't want us to DM you. But I'm like, I am so grateful that you did. There are hundreds. I couldn't answer them all. I'm trying my best. I really was in there just like hearting and, you know, responding and saying thank you to people. So this community is so incredible. And it was just a really emotional and

special time just to see the support that we've gotten from everybody. So cannot thank you enough. And we're going to keep doing what we're doing. And we love you. Ladies and guys, guys too. Everybody. All people. All genders, all races. It was a lot of support. And I am just really thankful. So love you guys. I also got a lot of messages this week. A lot of private messages. You and I got a lot of emails together. I'm not surprised by it. I think we have the most incredible community of women in the world. I think so. Thank you for sticking with us. We love you. We are proud to be a part of this community. Yes. And I'm still getting DMs about y'all and your pussy hair. I feel like I should give a Bush update. Why not?

Do you know that's why you guys are here? No, I'm just kidding. I've kind of accepted where I am in terms of it's grown out from the shaving. Wait. You took a serious tone and I thought that you were like going back to the last time. I've kind of accepted just like where things are. life right now. I didn't, I did not know we were going back into Bush. I know you got, I don't think I gave one last week. And I'm sure everybody was upset. We haven't even talked about the weather. It's fucking hot. It's summertime. It's like 85 degrees. And my bush is like a like I got a week stubble or whatever, a couple weeks stubble. And I feel good about it. It's not itchy anymore. It's like, is it two weeks, maybe two weeks post-slave? And I was keeping it really close shaven. Two weeks ago,

I got a little bit of sun, so I was in a bikini. But now it's just kind of like short hair. I feel good about it. I feel good. I feel comfortable in my body at this moment. So people are still messaging me about it. And yes, I'm considering laser hair removal. You guys know there's never a new update on mine.

I can't grow a bush. It's my lot in life to live with. I can't squirt. I can't grow a bush. Okay. Like I remember like seeing my mom's bush when I was growing up. Like, my poor mom, whatever. Everybody had a giant bush in the 80s.

Whatever. I'm not putting her bush on blast. I just like, I'll never be able to look like that. And I'm jealous, but it's fine. It's what it is. I do remember being a kid and my mom, like, calling me into the bedroom to be like, can you see any hair coming out of the sides of my bathing suit? And I just remember being like mildly traumatized by that.

I don't know. I just saw her two minutes ago. Now I'm thinking about Cindy's Bush. She brought me a smoothie. She brought me a daily harvest. We have a great episode today. We just wrapped up the recording with him. It is a really fantastic

and I think well-rounded discussion about race and what is going on in the country right now. We covered everything from Amy Cooper to George Floyd, the protests, and then interracial dating. This is a dating show.

I just, I thought that he was really phenomenal. I'm excited for you guys to listen to this conversation. and Ashley can talk about how she knows him. Yeah, he's a friend of mine. And I've known him for some years now. We became friends in Atlanta. And the reason why I thought he would be so great to talk to us is I was noticing

that he was doing this town hall discussion, a virtual discussion about race. And I was like, oh, this is great. You know, this is kind of what he's doing. And I felt comfortable approaching him as a friend. He is wonderful. he really encouraged me to move to New York and we would have these discussions before I really had them with even a lot of my friends about moving

and he pushed me so hard and I think I'd already made the decision but he really pushed me to move to New York and I always thank him for that and he was just so proud of me when I did it and I pulled the trigger on that and he moved to New York recently and so he says

I was like the first person he told but I don't know He came out to you. When he came out to me, yeah. But he came to, he was always coming to New York and I would go take his classes and things like that. And one day, after a class, we went to get coffee and we sat there for a couple hours and we chatted and he said he was moving. And I was like, we'll see. You know, like, are you really? Like you have such these ties to Atlanta.

Everybody's obsessed with you. Like, are you really going to make the move? He'd lived here before. And he did. And so he lives there. We're going to be talking to him shortly. but that was kind of, that's one of my main bonds with him was kind of this mutual support of getting to New York.

It's hard to move. It's hard to move to a new city after a certain age. You know, it's really tough, I think. It's not a hot take. It's hard, I think, after a certain age, if you're not going to meet people through work or school, how do I make friends? So I applaud you from moving to New York when you did. I moved when I was 21 or 22.

So less scary to do it then. Yeah. And he is so beloved. in Atlanta, like, that I remember seeing his going away party. And I was like, oh, that trumps mine by, like, so many. Like, I did have, I did have one. And, like, it just, I don't know, it was close to the holidays. That's what I tell myself.

But it definitely that many people did not show up that came to his. He, like, gave a speech. People were crying. Didn't want him to leave. He's so, he's great. He was so wonderful in the Atlanta community. And he did these events for years and the fitness and stuff. So people were like, please don't leave us.

That's what I feel. That's how I felt at the end of the, the interview. I just thought he was like so great and smart and funny and interesting. And I wanted to be like, totally, just stay on the Zoom. Well, and also another thing was that we, you know, I moved it from Atlanta at the end of 2016. So we all know what was going on then with the election. And he and I would have these discussions. You know, we would just stand in the lobby of flywheel and talk for an hour after class about like, realizing who among us was in support of Trump and kind of like we didn't realize. We didn't realize. where they stood politically and, you know, all that came out.

And then I left. I had already planned to. But it was interesting. It was interesting that, you know, he and I were in this place where we couldn't believe what was happening and, you know, how Trump was gaining steam and eventually would win and we would have these conversations. So like, geez, like a lot of these people are our friends. You know, we've been at dinners with these people.

I mean, not close best friends, but, you know, acquaintances and people we would party with. And a lot came out during that time and where people stood. And again, we're seeing that a lot now with where people stand and people with this All Lives Matter mindset and people that are not really denouncing the actions of the president and stuff. So that was kind of a point in our friendship where I was like, dude, who are these people? I'm so glad you brought this up because I am nominating a person of the week and it is perfectly tangential to what you are talking about. Tangential. Okay. I learned that word from my brother who's a lot of me.

You said it one other time, Angie. Were you blown away? one other time. I googled it. It's a tangent. Tengential. It's a great word. I literally love that word. My brother went to Amherst. He's much smarter than me. But anyways, maybe we'll continue this in the future, but I want to nominate our first person of the week.

What? Her name is Muriel Bowser. She is the mayor of D.C. She's a black woman. She has done two things this week that I thought were so savage. Okay. So first of all, she renamed the section of 16th Street in front of the White House, Black Lives Matter Plaza.

With that announcement on Friday, officials installed new street signs above the intersection outside of St. John's Church. So that's where Donald Trump made his very controversial walk. There are now signs. That's what the street is called now. She renamed the fucking street. And then, after federal law enforcement agents and military troops lined up for days against protesters outside the White House, she responded on Friday by having city workers paint Black Lives Matter in the big, biggest yellowest letters you have ever seen down 16th Street Northwest in front of the White

House. It is incredible. You guys have probably seen photos of it. But I mean, it is end. It's like building to building end to end. It is such a beautiful statement. And I love that she was just like, fuck you. It is a flex. That is for sure. I think there's been a lot of infighting between, you know, what powers do mayors? governors and presidents have. I've learned a lot this week. I'm a political science major now. But she is my person of the week, the mayor of D.C.

Super savage. I love what she did. Oh my God. That's incredible that you nominated a person in the week. Let's do this from here on out. I actually thought, like, I might like dig this hole where like in three weeks I'll be hung over and you'll be like, who's your person of the week? And I'll be like, do we have to do this anymore.

No, you guys do not hold us accountable for this stuff. We do this shit all the time. we can do whatever we want. Don't tell us that you miss a thing we used to do. If we did everything that we did at one point for a couple weeks in a row, that would all the podcast would be. That would be the entire podcast. And if Muriel Bowser is our only person of the week, I don't care.

Yeah. We just had the one. We peaked. I love that. I'm in Pittsburgh right now. I drove home. I wanted to see my mother. I'm not staying with her.

I'm staying with a friend. But I drove here and she said something to me so, funny last night. I wish I wish you would have been like a fly in the wall. So I got to be a savage. Your mom. She's no fucks at all. I don't think she realizes she doesn't give a fuck. She doesn't like even more savage.

She's like, she can be mean. Yeah, she was super mean. Yes, I had like a pretty bad week this week. I mean, so did everybody. I'm not like making light of it. But, you know, I've been in New York through coronavirus and through a lot of things. And so I wanted to come home to see my family. Anyways, I rented a car.

I pulled up to the house yesterday. I've been driving. It takes me six hours to get from my apartment to my parents' house. And I had washed my hair in like nine days or something. I don't know. I have new glasses. I looked really, I walked back into the, we're only seeing each other outside. I walked back onto the deck and she goes, you look really just bad.

And then she like paused as though she was thinking about it. And she's like, I mean, you just look not good. She said, let me double down. She was right. I thought you were going to say she said tired or something like that. No. Nope. I literally,

I picked up my phone and I made a note in the phone tell Ashley about this. That is so funny. You look bad. I'm so sorry. Just to clarify, you look not good. Brutal. I was like, yeah, mom, I'm kind of going through some stuff. I've been crying a lot lately.

I don't know if you've seen what's going on in the world. You know, it's a lot. So also I've been showered in a while. and I've been a car for six hours. So, yeah, that was funny. I couldn't wait to tell you. I laughed so hard. I wrote it down.

My mom does call me out for my hair. Because somewhere along the lines, I never knew this until 2020, that Cindy Hustline has a problem with dirty, greasy-looking hair. Because her is. Yeah, she has a different type of hair. I think she could go longer between washes, to be honest,

but she just doesn't and I just do. My max now at this point is nine days. So there was a point where it was just, I was watching it once a week. We were doing our shows and I was doing other stuff on Saturday nights usually. So it was usually just every Saturday. And then every once in a while twice a week. But now there was one time I'd let it go nine days. And she'll just throw shade.

And only the way that your mom can. She's the only person, your mother, that like you can't really get mad at for doing. Even my dad said that to me. I'd be like, fuck you, bro. But yeah, your mom. I don't know. She, like, made you. She can tell you you look bad. One, it's also like, yeah, like, mom, I know. I can look in the mirror. I can feel it. And she's like, she'll do this. Like, so are you going to wash your hair? And I'm like, maybe. I'm an adult.

You did a good impression of her. I actually, you know, it's like even more embarrassing is before I got to my parents' house, they live in this like little cul-de-sac. I pulled over on the side of the road and put some eye makeup on, like, where they couldn't see me, like, out of sight. And she still told me I looked bad. You tried. I did try. I still was like your efforts were not enough. You don't look good. So that was nice for me. Well, I'm glad that you brought up beauty products

because I have been shopping for new beauty products recently. And this was something that I did want to talk about on this episode is spending your money with black owned businesses. There's tons of lists out there and articles I found one. I really liked on New York MAG and just the way that it was set up with the categories like beauty, fashion, food, home decor gifts and things like that. So I just started thinking of like what I needed in my life that I'm already getting from somewhere else that I could replace with things from Black owned businesses.

And I ended up getting this vitamin C serum from Beauty Stat. Some of the other brands I love that were also in this article. Brother Vellys love their shoes and handbags founded by Aurora James. Costumer or swimwear is another one. These are just a few. If you guys want to look into it and also find that article. But a couple of the beauty companies, I was wanting to order stuff from.

And their websites said we are experiencing a high demand right now, you know, shipping delays, all these things. So it makes me feel that all these amazing companies and all these amazing brands are getting all this attention right now. And people are flooding their websites and they're ordering and they're ordering. And I clearly cannot speak for these business owners, you know, how they feel about it. If they're just purely excited, if they're overwhelmed, whatever it may be. But my point is to just not have the.

this be a right now thing and to have this be long-term permanent type of changes and really recognizing the black-owned businesses, restaurants, whatever it may be and incorporating them into your daily life, whereas you might have just been buying things and using your purchasing power for white-owned companies. And so I just think this is a small step you can do in the right direction and make these changes and make them long-term permanent. And I just want, I don't want people to lose sight of that and we'll talk about it with Fred about the fear, I guess, if that's the right word, that this is not going to last and everybody's not going to keep doing all these really important actions.

So that's my message for right now is to keep this shit up next week, next month, next year, forever. And a nice place to start is just putting your money where your mouth is and changing over some of those brands that you may be using on a regular basis. to some of these black-owned businesses. Honeypot is great. Hana, Hana, beauty was another one I loved. All of their shay butters were sold out, every last one.

Like I was like, oh, I want this one sold out. I want this one sold out. I mean, I can't even, I'm fine with a shipping delay, but I couldn't even order it. So it was nice to see. I don't know how the business owners feel. They might be like, fuck you guys, where were you last year? And now we can't fulfill the orders.

But I felt like it was good to see that they're getting all this business. And I just hope people continue it. Yeah, I think that was really well said. and I love that you're promoting the future of supporting these businesses. I think more than ever, it's important to think, you know, when these protests end, what does the future look like? All right, guys, we are so excited for our guests today. Joining us in the Virtual House Studio today.

He is a Harvard MBA. He is an entrepreneur, a professional fitness instructor, a New Yorker, a longtime friend of Ashley's, and I am very sorry that we aren't with him because he could literally work me out anytime. please welcome which you're sexy please welcome

he's at his girlfriend's house he can still be sexy please welcome to the show Fred Smith Hey thanks thank you it's good to be here guys thanks for being here

Raina we've had a kind of a crazy week Raina has been she hasn't been able to really fully express herself because we've been dealing with a lot of shit so she hasn't been able to fully make people uncomfortable which is her favorite thing you got me in that one

you're getting in the front of it Nice to meet you too. Well, thank you for being here. Maybe you could talk a little bit more about yourself, introduce yourself. So, yeah, so thanks for the intro. My name is Fred. I live in New York now. I was born in New York.

I live in New York now. But between those times, I've lived in a bunch of cities, which is relevant to our discussion here today. But most recently, I was in Atlanta, Georgia for about eight years. That's where I met Ashley. I loved my time in Atlanta. But it's my first time really living in the South, you know? So there's a lot of experiences there.

But yeah, as you said, I went to Harvard Business School, I graduated and moved to Chicago, worked in management consulting for a little bit, then I decided to start a business with my brother in Atlanta. So that's when I moved to Atlanta. And then found fitness, started teaching classes at Flywheel for fun. And that blew up. And so I became one of their people, one of their guys. Yeah, it was like what they've called it Fredwheel. It's funny that you said that you did it for fun, because it's the last thing I would do. If somebody said, like, what's, tell me about the worst day you can imagine. I would be like, well, first I woke up and went to flywheel.

Rain, I thought we had something going there. I thought you said I could work you out anytime. It's a different kind of workout. Oh, okay. I know, he didn't know that you met. Okay, anyway, Rayna doesn't work out. Okay, so back to you. Now you're kind of doing your own thing, fitness-wise.

Yeah, I mean, once I moved to New York, then the world ended. So that was like three months ago. and I started teaching my own fitness classes from my apartment studio in New York, which has been fun. I love teaching those virtual classes, so work out with fred.com. You could take some of my cycling classes.

But yeah, so much this happened in 2020 is kind of crazy. But yeah, I'm an entrepreneur at heart, love fitness, love business, love leadership, politics. I mean, I'm involved in a lot of different things. Love relationships as well. obviously we're going to talk about that a little bit. Yeah.

But that's me in a nutshell. My friend group is diverse. But Ashley probably could tell you that I have a lot of non-minority friends, real close friends and minority friends as well. And those friendships have looked different depending on what city I've lived in. But in Atlanta, I mean, we started another thing, we started a social club in Atlanta called Guest List. and we had about 3,000 members for the social club,

and we used to host some of the best parties in Atlanta for about five years. And my brother and I were partners. We did New Year's with T-Pain, just got to jump in. Right, right, yeah. So, yeah, the New Year's party was probably the apex of our whole existence. But yeah, we had T-Pain, fun New Year's party. But if you looked at the demographics of the group we had, it was a lot of white people.

And here, Andre and I are both black, leading this group, which was really a testament to the people who came to the parties, but also I guess how they viewed my brother and I. So I have a perspective on what's been going on from being the token, in many ways the token black guy in a lot of social situations, but also just seeing things from both sides. So I've had a lot of friends reach out to me with everything that's been going on with genuine concern and despair.

So I see that in their hearts. But we need to have conversations. So I am having a town hall on June 14th, about a week or so away from now, where I'm inviting my network and other networks to just come and listen to stories about what it's like growing up in the United States as a black male. I have panelists that are going to tell different stories. I also have non-minority white friends that are going to get up and speak. and we may have a few athletes come and speak and then experts in the field.

But the idea behind it is to start to have that awkward discussion, you know. So for so long, we've kind of lived in the same communities, but never really talked about race. And it's because it's uncomfortable. I don't want to come off as being someone who's going to play the race card all the time. Plus, these are my friends. Like, I want to have real good friendships. Same on their side. It's awkward for them to bring it up.

They oftentimes don't know what to say. they don't want to come off as being insensitive or a racist or that's the last thing they want to be called. So we just live life not having a conversation about one of the most important things, something that we can see that's very obvious, but we just don't talk about it. So my idea behind the town hall is to have that discussion. I think a lot in the beginning, like last week people were like, ask your black friends, you know, how they're feeling. And I thought it sounded a little cringy.

And I think that the narrative is like it's no one else's responsibility. to educate you, that you should be the kind of person that wants to do the work and listen to the podcast, read the books, which I've been doing. And also, our listenership has been educating me. I don't know that I would, like, walk up to a black person to be like, so tell me what it's like to be you. And I wouldn't appreciate that any more than somebody walking up to me and saying, like, what's it like to be a Jew? So, like, what are your feelings about, you know, is it my responsibility to educate people? And if somebody says to you, please educate me, like, how do you feel about that?

Well, I mean, look, what happened to George Floyd, none of us were expecting it, right? So we weren't, we as African Americans weren't prepared to all of a sudden, you know, have a stage like this. I think we're growing into it now. But it's been just, I just got off of another call with some of my Harvard Business School, African American friends talking about what are we going to do? And everyone's saying they're just completely exhausted, stressed out. not all of us are subject matter experts on being black or even know everything about black history. So it's civil rights activists. Sure.

Yeah. Right. I mean, none of us are civil rights. We're just trying to survive in the country, right? Just like everybody else. Yeah. And so we're exhausted, but I don't have any ill will towards my white friends for reaching out to me and asking me how it's been, even though it may be hard for me to

articulate at least the first few times what it's like. Because what else, you know, I think, I think we do have to give some direction in terms of like movies to watch or books to read. And that's in my personal opinion. I want to help. So, and it's not our, so to your point, like, it's not our fault. We as black people, not our fault that we are in the society that we're in. Therefore, it's not really our responsibility necessarily to figure out the problem. That's another tough one. It's like, what can I do? What should I do? Like, we don't know what, we don't know necessarily know what the answer is, right? These are big problems that have existed for hundreds of years.

I think that there's a difference between checking in and just saying, how are you? And I'm here if you need to talk or just tell me, you know, getting a feel for how your friends are feeling and asking them to educate you. So all these black women that I follow are like, we have been building these resources. So check our bios first. You know, we're overwhelmed. see what we've already put out there. Google books to read, Google podcast to watch, Google movies to watch before you ask somebody,

especially somebody you don't know that well. What can I do? Because that does put the burden on the person you're asking. But I think it never hurts, right? To like just say, hey, I'm thinking about you. The whole world is like you said. So articulately looking at black people on a stage right now. Yeah.

And two things. So just to just a peek into what it's been like. for the past week for us. So to survive, sometimes you have to suppress pain, like just to function. And so those of us who've gone through racial issues, which most black people have, we often don't even remember all of them, right? So to have all of this at the forefront, me personally, I'm remembering incidents that have happened in my life.

And for every incident, that's emotional, right? So in the midst of being pinged by friends on how to answer these things, I'm still, I'm having to go through my own mourning or grief or whatever it is because I don't know that any of us thought that we'd get to a point where we could talk about these things, but also it's just, it's a lot of pain. It's a lot of pain. And the other thing is like the Blackout Tuesday, lots of controversy around Blackout Tuesday. What a map. Yeah, I know. But for me to see that solidarity, I think for the people who didn't know what to say to their black friend, at least, and we could talk about whether it's sincere or whatever,

it doesn't matter. Like the fact that basically social media shut down for a day, which has never happened before, to pay respects to this issue, I think that that means a lot. If we're going to step forward and build a better future for ourselves, I think that was a good step. Yeah, I think maybe it just showed what side you're on, because it is kind of crazy to me that there's still these all-lives matter people out there. And so at least, again, I don't think you should post a black square and say that's all your work that you need to do. I think that's really crazy. But at least the good is that you're showing your other followers and your family and your friends that you stand with the movement as opposed to blue lives matter, all lives

matter, MAGA 2020. You know, like at least you're expressing that you're on the right side of history, maybe. Look, the reality is like we're minorities because we are, there's fewer of us in the population, right? So for us to get like any change, at least legally, we have to have allies. We have to have friends that are white. And now is not the time for us. And I've been expressing this to my, my black friends, most of which agree. Now is not the time for us to like say, I know you're holding out a helping hand, but, you know, it's too late or I don't believe you or any of that. In terms of the white-on-white policing, I personally don't mind watching it. I mean, it's, it's somewhat. I don't mind watching. I mean, I can keep it real. It's

kind of entertaining. I'm glad that you made a joke about that. I've never gone deeper into comments than I have over these issues. Like, every time I see a post, I'm deep into the comments. And when someone says, like, all lives matters, I mean, people are just on them like Bryant. Yeah. I love it. Oh, yeah. I mean, really, it feels like people are fighting the fight for us. So I don't mind the back and forth at all. I think where the issue lies is the intent for a white person to post that and expect black people to say thank you, pat them on the back. We as white people, we should want to do this work regardless and get better. We're all getting better throughout this and we're going to continue.

Nobody's perfect. I'm certainly not a civil rights activist at any stretch. I'm educating myself every day, but I think some people want this like approval and they want to be told they're an ally for the bare minimum. And I think that's where it becomes problematic. So it's like I think some people, not everybody, I saw plenty of black people posting the square. I saw plenty of white people that I know what they stand for and know how much work they've done. But some people, it is performative. So I understand the distrust and the frustrations of the people that we're doing it in a performative way.

I'm so, look, I wish we could commit to doing it every Tuesday for the rest of the year, something like that, something that really shows that people are in it for the long run. I'm hopeful that it continues, but I mean, even, I'm somewhat, you know, with the way we move from one thing, it was COVID, everything was COVID two weeks ago, and now it's George Floyd. And I think a lot of us are, we appreciate everything, but what is it going to be next week? it'll be something else next week. Hopefully not.

We don't know. But I do think that this is different than, you know, Ferguson or Charlottesville. I think at least for me, like it's been sort of a baptism by fire in the last 10 days. Like, yeah, I'm not a perfect ally. There's a million things I need to learn. There's a million things I learned this week.

And I feel like through the mistakes I've made, it's helped me to have more productive conversations with other people. Like I was telling Ashley, I was having a conversation with my parents last night. And, you know, I made a judgment call about rioting. And I was educated that that was a stupid judgment call. And I totally agree with that. And then I was able to have a really productive conversation with my mom last night,

who's of a very different generation. And I think at least it's helped me to be educated and to educate other people. And for me, like, the work will stop on social media with people posting this stuff for likes and comments. But the work goes on for me because I've just, I've been educated. And something that you said, you said, you know, I'm educating other people, but like, I'm experiencing this too. And I'm learning, like, so much about what it's like to grow up as a black man or woman in this country. And it's stuff that I didn't think I actively avoided.

I just didn't actively learn about it either. Thank you. I mean, you know, one of the biggest things I've studied is microaggressions and what they look like. And in our town hall, we're going to spend a lot of time talking about that because I think that's where the Amy Cooper type situation. I mean, that's where she comes in, where it's, it is terrifying and sad what happened to George Floyd. It's unlikely that I am going to get, you know, abused by the police or beat to a pulp. It's unlikely, knock on wood. But what is very likely is that I will be treated like Amy Cooper, treated Christian Cooper,

whether it's to my face or behind my back. It's likely that I walk into a store and I'm going to be followed by a security person or at least look that longer to see if I'm going to steal something. And those little incidents that happen to all of us on a daily basis shapes how we view ourselves, our self-worth. And I think it's more damaging than even the criminal justice reform we're looking at because that's why when the black square thing happens, people don't trust it. Because we've lived however long we've been on earth, these aggressions that happen. multiple times a day. So that's how we view ourselves. So I think, and that's harder work.

It's one thing to pass legislation to fix criminal justice reform. It's really hard to convince someone that they have biases inside. We all have prejudice and biases. It's really hard to get people because that's not legal. That's like a hard.

Get to touch hearts. That's the work. I want to talk more about this stuff for sure. Like let's get into it. You know, you don't need to give away the town hall. We want people to join. But maybe like some Cliffs notes on that and like the microaggression stuff.

and what you experience as your words, not mine, as a token black friend for a lot of white people. I know you. I know white people in Atlanta that have said, I'm not racist. Fred is my friend. So let's get into this stuff. You know, I think it can be eye-opening for a lot of people. Yeah. You know, it's funny to bring that up because I tell people, my experience in Atlanta was great.

I love my time in Atlanta. But I was telling a group of guys the other day that I don't know that I ever felt like I was fully accepted, which was mind-blowing to them. As you said, flywheel, you know, they call me fly-wheel Fred or Fred wheel, whatever it is. And I was, it was great. I'm not downplaying that, but I don't know from a social standpoint I ever felt like included. I remember we're in Georgia, South, SEC country. I went to SEC school too. But, but I never, it was, and it's hard to articulate. These are the things that are hard to articulate. I just never felt like I, I necessarily was like one of one of them.

Even though on the surface, like you said, we had friends that were like, yeah, Fred's my, I don't, I'm not racist because Fred's my friend. I don't know that we ever felt like we were one of the boys. You know what I mean? And it's, that's the type of thing that's coming up as we're going through, through all of this.

But I've had incidents with, I've never been beat up by the cops, but certainly I've been pulled over multiple times for no reason. Just one time they asked me, you know, if I owned the car that I was driving. The very first time I got pulled over, that was a question. they let me go.

I've been asked, what am I doing in this neighborhood after being pulled over? I've had, I went to Harvard, right? And I'm sure a lot of other minorities who can go to Ivy League school or achieve, there's always that question of, well, he only got in because he's a minority, right?

And what that does to me, like, I'm the one that had to study for all the tests and get the GPA and all that stuff to get into the school. to get into the school. But when you hear that, sometimes you do question, like, is that why? And that affects your performance

when you're in school? I mean, you need to have that type of confidence to perform, especially at a school like that. I've had an issue with relationships in college. My first real bout with racism was when I was in college

and I was dating a girl. The only girl I really dated throughout my years in college and her, she was white. She was my neighbor. And her parents didn't approve of us being together. And that was a very challenging situation is my first bout with racism. And that's something that kind of tarnished my entire time.

That was at University of Florida. Tarnished my entire time there. Can we talk about it a little more? Sure. Had you ever dated a white girl before that? No, not officially. No. Okay.

So your first experience was kind of negative. My first experience. I mean, I really had to date a lot of girls before that. Yeah. Are you a late, Fred, were you a late bloomer? Yeah, isn't that something after? No. I'm still warning, actually.

Wait, I love that we're like, he said not officially. Like, were you that guy in high school that was like my girlfriend goes to a different school? I was always in the friend zone in high school, Ashley. You were? No. Yeah. Yeah. My life, I've been in a friend zone.

But you're sexy. Well, thank you, Breyna. Wait, were you like, like, I mean, this is going to sound terrible. I'm sure someone will hate me saying it. But, like, what was your body like back then? Were you, like, a skinny kid or were you, like, kind of jacked like you are now? Ashley, thank you for saying it because I needed to know. If you could take your shirt off and describe how, it's changed.

Please ignore her. Oh, man. Try your girlfriend. I'm sorry. It's okay. Girls got to eat. I know. I get it.

So I was not skinny. I was probably a little more chubby, but not really chubby. I mean, if you look at pictures of me in high school, it was, but I definitely like blossomed in freshman year of college. I lost weight instead of gained weight in college. And so that's when I started to, but I was just nice. I mean, that's a whole other, like, we can do another podcast on nice guys and why I'd be a nice guy because it's, it's, it's terrible.

But I was like nice guy. Yeah. I always wanted to do everything for the girl I liked. And I just don't work. But that's cute. It's cute. It's cute now. But no, they like the bad guys.

You guys know the stories. So I was the nice guy. I was always in the friend zone. I learned a little bit freshman year of college, started dating this girl when I was a sophomore. She was my neighbor. And we had a great relationship. And the thing about being in college is like,

you're in the bubble. You're in the college bubble. So what your parents think or all that stuff. I mean, you deal with that when you go home, but you spend most of your time in school. school. So we had a, we had a great relationship in terms of how we felt about each other. But it was probably three or four months into dating that, because I didn't know, I had no idea her parents. I was just going to ask that. So I'm glad you said that. I was curious if she ever

expressed like, hey, this is forbidden, but let's, you know. I didn't know. I didn't know. I didn't know. You had no idea. Did you think that she knew? Do you think that she knew her parents? Okay. I mean, sometimes, I'm just curious that sometimes my parents will say something to me. And I'm like, what did you just say not about race but just I'm like who are who are you like yeah like who are you people that raised me okay so you didn't know that it was problematic I didn't know I think um it was in her mom was coming to visit her from at school and um she I think she had a lot of anxiety about whether she was going to introduce me to her mom or not still I didn't know but um she actually it did introduce me so I still don't know but she did introduce me to the mom and then it was after

that after her mom meeting me that I think her mom mom had a big talk with her. And so she was shaken. And that's when she brought it up to me. She said, um, really she said it was a, so her parents were older, like old, you know, 7, 70, 80 type thing. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. And so, uh, she said, you know, my mom is worried about us being together because she doesn't think she, there's no way we can ever tell my father because there's no way he'd approve it. And, um, literally, I mean, we're, this was my first about with racism. And it was a big one. But that's four months into the relationship.

And we kind of like didn't talk after that. You and her? For a little bit of time. Yeah, we didn't talk because I didn't know how to handle it. She's broken by it. But you know how things are. She's my neighbor. So we see each other all the time.

So, you know, days go by. I miss you. We're back into the full swing of a relationship. But that's how it was. It was three or four months of good. then she'd go home for the holidays or something and then she couldn't really talk openly when she's at home.

You can imagine as a girl being in a relationship with a guy that you really like and not being able to talk to your mom about it or your dad about it. I mean, that was broken for her. But it wasn't, it was, she and I really liked each other, but she was in a sorority

and she would never take me on any of the functions. I have a question for you about how it made you feel because the New York Times, the daily I listen to the podcast and they did this thing. this week that was really fantastic. It was five stories from five different black people of different generations about their experiences with racism. And they talked to this younger kid about an experience he had had with a white security guard. So when you were in college, do you remember how it made you

feel? Did it make you feel angry? Did it make you feel like there's something wrong with me? Like, do you, did you turn in on yourself? Did you want to fight against these people? I'm just curious, like, if you remember what that felt like. I think it's a combination of stuff, right? Overwhelmingly, I was happy to be in this really. Remember, I had a been in a ton of relationships before that. So I really was in the her. So I was happy from that standpoint. But of course, when, when, you know how it is in college, when they're having a formal or a function and she's not going to go, but all of her friends are going and we're staying at home watching a movie, that, that's, that, that definitely makes me feel question things.

Um, her friends for the most, her friends in school were supportive. I don't know about her friends at home. So again, she couldn't go home and talk to her friends about it. I think it was a combination. I think it hurt me a lot. Ultimately, we broke up for it because of it. And then when we broke up, that was heartbreaking for me, absolutely heartbreaking. It helped that the friends were like, I can't believe racism still exists in whatever year, early 2000s. I can't believe racism still exist. Funny we're saying that now, still. But yeah, it hurt. It hurt a lot. And it didn't, it didn't affect who I would date afterwards, but it made me realize that there could be a limitation on pursuing certain girls. And she and I are fine now. You know, it'd be interesting

to hear from her perspective. I think, I think she's, it's tough to break up with someone that you really, it's tough to break up with me, first of all. And, and then realize she can never be with me for the rest of her life. I'm sure that that was not easy. her. But it is, it is what it is. She decided that it was more important to get her parents support when she gets married than to be with someone she really wants to be with. I think it's probably, I mean, it's not an excuse, but it's, it's hard to fight against decades, if not centuries of breeding in your family. It's hard to even know at the age of what 18, how to fight back against that. You know, it's, it's tough. Yeah, she tried. It's interesting. You said the first time

you felt racism was in college. So I grew up not knowing anybody was racist. I don't know. It's just like there was always all my black friends and interracial couples even were at the house. You know, my parents, there's no issue there. And my, you know, boyfriend was black that I, we talk about him. I like went to senior prom with him.

I lost my virginity to him, whatever. And we were still dating when I went to college. And I had a picture of us obviously framed. And this guy came into my room to study. we had like a little, you know, I don't know if it was a few, few of us were studying. And he said, he saw it and he said, how can you do that? And I literally didn't know what he meant. And I said, do what?

Chad. Of course his name was Chad. That was my also first experience with fucking Chad. And he was like, I mean, date a black guy, like date outside your race. And I said, get the fuck out of my room. And I just sat with it of like, oh, is this going to be a problem? And it almost made me like go harder. How dare you?

You know, I can't believe I'm here. Did I pick the wrong school? I clearly I thought that for a while. And I dated all kinds of guys in college or, you know, dated, slept with whatever, black, white, whatever, just really. But definitely a lot of black guys. And I proudly brought them to my sorority formals and so did my friends. And I surrounded myself with people that didn't have these beliefs and was glad to, like,

get in people's face and tell them why they were wrong. but it definitely shook me up and clearly it wasn't directed at me as a white person. So I'm not even trying to say that I experienced racism. I guess I saw it was what I'm trying to say. But to experience it at 18 and be like, oh my God, it's, yeah, right. It's like it's 2000, whatever. And this is a thing. And it was shocking.

Well, I appreciate Ashley, you fighting for your relationship with the guy. I think if you're in a interracial relationship, you know what you're getting into, right? But they're probably going to be, there probably will be a moment

when one person has to defend the relationship to people on the outside. But also my parents work cool with it. It's a totally different thing. You know, it's like that's, you're going to turn against your whole family as opposed to my family had no problem with it. So I also can't put myself in the shoes of a girl

that parents are disapproving of her relationship. And I don't say that to say I would have ended the relationship. I don't know what would have happened, but I can't relate to that, certainly. You know, I was thinking you're talking about like being 18 or 19. It's one thing about racism for us is we're dealing with all of the other things that an 18 or 19 or 20-year-old has to deal with in terms of the eating rights. So not only,

where we, there's an interracial couple, but we have to deal with like, you know, all the fighting and, you know, worrying about one person cheating on the other, all the, all the normal stuff that everyone has to deal with. And then on top of that, and this is the case, not just for interracial day, this is just kind of walking in our shoes. There's this overhead that we have all the time of, you know, for example, like, um, I was at a restaurant a little while ago and I was there with two white girls and is actually the restaurant at the bottom of my building and I left my wallet in my apartment. So we're, we ate, the three of us are there. We're being served by the waitress. And I told the girls, I'm going to go upstairs and get my wallet, right? So I leave the restaurant

to go upstairs and get my wallet and the waitress just beelines towards me. And she's like, wait, wait, wait, you haven't paid for your bill. Keep in mind, the two girls are still at the table. Still there. Yeah. So, and she sees me walk out and she, and she, and she, and she has, assumes, I guess, that I'm going to walk out on the tab, she got, I think she may have gotten fired for that. She got berated. But, but in that moment, I'm thinking, was that race? I don't know. I can't say it was and I can't say it wasn't. But what is it that made her think that I was going to walk out on the bill when the two, the two girls are sitting right at the table. And we have incidents like, this is the microaggress. It goes back to microaggression.

Like, we have things like that. We can't say definitively that one small thing was race related. But it happened like once a day. Ultimately. you have to start to question things, but that's just extra overhead that we have to think about just to make it through the day. Well, and just some of the things that you've told me that people say to you and about you, your friends, I don't know if you want to run through a few because they like, one of them is like, I'm not racist. I'm friends with Fred, but there's other things that people say about the way you talk.

And like, it's just like, is this stuff you're going to address at the town hall too? Yeah. Yeah, again, it's more examples of micro. But we've all heard these things, right? So I speak fairly proper. And it's been a thing since I was, it's weird because my family's from Jamaica and I was born in New York. I don't have a New York accent and I don't really have a Jamaican accent

unless I want to turn it on. I've heard a little bit. A little bit of it. When you get drunk, your accent comes out. Yeah. When I get drunk, my Pittsburgh accent comes out. I'm drunk. Especially when I'm drinking.

like a Mickey's Ice 40th, then it just comes like flying out of the body. So, I mean, that stuff comes out. But, but I was made fun of it. Speaking proper as a kid, from even some black people would make fun of me. Say I speak proper. But yeah, now when I'm the, I guess, token friend or whatever you say, one of few in a group of, yeah, I've heard that on my whole life is basically, you know, you don't speak black.

Speak, you know, you're very articulate. when someone says you're very articulate. Who is saying that to you? White people? I've also heard it from like Southern moms. You know, like a friend of mine's mom would say shit like that and she would be like, mom, no, let's back up. Because it's the unsaid thing, right?

It's like you're articulate. Wow, I'm surprised you're so articulate. That's right. That's the implication. I'm so surprised that you're like this. Wow. I can't believe. I've heard comments, you know, as as.

I've heard, there's comments that are made that I don't hear directly. These are the things I hear directly. But I've heard things like, you know, Fred's not really like black, black. He's just, you know. And sometimes I'll be honest, like, when someone says I'm articulate, I want to take that at face value, then I'm articulate. So I'm not saying that every time someone says that to me, I think, oh, you're racist. For sure.

No, definitely. I mean, I take it at face value. It's the surprise. It's like when people would say to me, it's not the same. Guys, come on. Everybody relax. but the same feeling of when someone would be like, wow, your boyfriend's hot. It's like, what?

Because I can't, have you ever heard of like that? Like my ex of his peak hotness, I would say he was more attractive than me, but I mean, whatever, he's not anymore. Not anymore. Sometimes people would be like, whoa, he's your boyfriend so hot. And I'd be like, ouch. Like, it's different than like, oh, girl, he's hot. That's, that's different. That's, that's saying, wow, you're really articulate as opposed to like, oh, my gosh, I didn't expect this.

Right. Yeah, same thing. Same thing. I can't relate to any of this, guys. People just assume that I'm going to be articulate, date hot people, and be perfect. Well, aren't you privileged? No one is prejudiced against me for this. But yeah, you know, most of those comments that I've heard from friends are like,

you're not what we consider black, even though I'm very black. And like I was saying, like, it doesn't, it hasn't always, I haven't always been offended by it. It's not until I think about how they're giving me a compliment, but putting down every other black person. Right. And that's not okay. And, you know, I've been on the receiving end of, you know, again, the education thing is like, wow, you went to Harvard. Well, good.

I mean, that's like, yes, it's not easy to get into Harvard, but I think baked into that sometimes, sometimes is, wow, you got in, how'd you do it type thing. Yeah. But, you know, I'm not one person, to be honest. Like, my first bout with racism that I knew was when I was in college. So I lived a pretty sheltered life. My parents, my mom and my grandmother kept the tight reign on my brother and I. So we weren't like out and about too much. But that kind of shaped my worldview.

So I don't walk around like with the first lens or the first filter of anything that happens to me is like, wow, that was race related. Like that. It's honestly since those days that I've lived in Boston. in Chicago and Georgia that I've seen more people. And that's where I start to think it matters, you know. But I still don't. I don't ever want to be that person that's like, if I get yelled at, I'm like, oh, you're a racist.

I never want to be that way. It's also not going to move, move us forward as a society. Yeah. I would love to talk about Amy Cooper real quick. Let's do it. Yeah, because I would say that incident affected me as much as, what happened in George Floyd and to see her like

and thank God for video by the way because if there was no video who knows what would have happened to that guy I mean he probably would have been arrested and his life would have been different but to see to see her weaponized race in that moment

and to know her background as someone you would never ever expect I'll be honest with you it really makes me think like how many I don't know who's Amy Cooper and who's not like who in my do I know people people who are close to me that at the drop of a dime, if they're confronted by me or

someone, another black, not even me, because I'm their friend, right? So maybe another black person that they don't know, but they're just going to say, you know, I'm going to call the cops on you. And that was disturbing to me because it really makes me question, it's one thing to know someone's racist because they post something that's racist is another thing to know that Amy Cooper exists where it's deep down inside, but it could come up at a moment. So I was like, to me, that's pretty scary. There's no way to call her out until something like that happens. Yeah, somebody in the Northeast who's educated, who has a great job.

And you just, you know, I read a lot of articles that were like, you know, a lot of your friends are probably Amy Cooper's on the wrong day. And, you know, a girlfriend of mine said, I remember Monday morning when this happened, it happened on Sunday. So, right? I don't know, whatever day it was. A girlfriend of mine said to me, what if this was one of our friends? what would you say to her?

And I was like, I can't even imagine what I would attempt to say to her. Because I think people were probably pretty shocked that like this northeastern probably supporter. Yes. Educated woman with a great job could be such an asshole. It's deeper than being an asshole. I mean, it's horrifyingly disgusting.

Yeah. Like those thoughts just don't, like the things that she said don't just come out of your mouth when you're, mad or you feel threatened, which I don't, I, this whole thing that she felt unsafe is bullshit, because she, she escalated the situation in the first place. You're scared of a man in the bramble. You don't move closer to him and yell at him. That's for sure we don't do it. So her whole apology was totally unfounded in bullshit. But, um, yeah, I mean, Raina, I don't, what, what if that was our friend? Like, what if, I don't know. I don't think that would be my friend anymore. I don't think it would

either. No, like it couldn't. But someone like you, I can understand how terror. that was because that guy looked like you. You know what I mean? Like this is this fucking, this guy looked like a nerd. Like this wasn't some, like, wait, did you just say I look like a nerd, Ashley? Did I hear you correct? No, like that is exactly what she said. No, no, no, no.

Like, didn't he go Harvard? I like what Raina says about me better. Thank you. He also went to Harvard. He was like, sorry, those are two separate things. You in terms of just like clean cut. You went to Harvard. Like you're similar to him.

So I understand why you could see yourself in him. But that guy, what? What thug in the, like, the racist term that a woman like that would use is, A, wearing a bike helmet, B, birdwatching. Like, it's so crazy. Does he have binoculars with him? I feel like he had binoculars. No, he was bird watching.

There is nothing less threatening than a man bird watching in the middle of the day in the busiest park in the world with a bike helmet. And, you know, I love that people, you know, I love that when people said, you know, she, She lost her job. She lost her dog. I love that people's response to that was she didn't care how much more that man was going to lose. It would have been so much worse for him had the police come. Yeah.

It would have been she said he said. And she would have acted. Oh gosh. What's infuriating again is when she gets on the phone with 911 and her voice level gets heightened and then she's exasperated and all of that stuff. And lying. You got to standing there recording, right? And she would have put on another show.

when the cops got there. Who knows? She may have even, I mean, hurt herself just so, who knows, who knows what she would have been doing? Rightening my life. And Raina, I love that you brought that up

because I've seen this circulating a lot about like the way we think about things. Like, oh, what a shame about this? Like, let me get this. Let me see if I can articulate this right Friday. You might have to help me out. But the whole, like, it's a shame that George Floyd was killed,

but we can't have this looting and rioting. When it should be, it's a shame that there's looting and rioting happening, but we can't have any more people get killed like this. So many people were silent the week George Floyd died. And then they all of a sudden when they saw windows getting damaged and I too don't agree with with any diluting and riding. But that's what they, that's what they were up in arms with.

And I mean, I can tell you amongst my friends, they were beside themselves when they saw. Everyone just come out of the woodworks now all of a sudden. Because people and what does that say about them, right? They are, they were waiting for it's always like, like you said earlier, when George Floyd got killed, they want to know like, well, what was the offense? Maybe there was a reason. Maybe there was a reason. Like the people don't want to accept things. They don't want to accept racism exists. And they don't want to have sympathy for the big issue that we have. They always

have to, I had a conversation recently about Mayor Keesha Lance Bottoms and her speech that she gave that Friday when the writing was really bad in Atlanta. And then Killer Mike comes on afterwards. I don't know if you guys saw the video, but Killer Mike. I saw all of it. I saw like, I saw, she was like everybody's mom. She was like, go to fuck home. Go home. Go home. Yeah. And killer Mike. Yeah. Watched it all. So and she's like, nobody can out concern me. I have young black sons, yada, yada, yada. But then killer Mike comes on and he's wearing the shirt that says like, kill your master. Um, I was recently in the conversation where that is all they focused on was

why is he wearing that shirt? Like they completely, yeah. That was an issue that people cared about. Um, yeah. So this was a conversation. And then I thought we had made it somewhere and like, 30 minutes later, they're like, okay, so Fred, explain to me why he was wearing that shirt. What? Fred, cancel your friends. It's like, we have this whole long conversation about everything else and they're like, and then by the way, why are they asking me why he's wearing the shirt?

As if I know why he's wearing. I don't know. I wouldn't wear that shirt, but that's his, he's a person that made the decision whether it was good or bad, and distracting the message. But why am I, why do I have to explain why he's wearing that shirt? Like, but that's it.

They just look for something to latch on to, whether it's the rioting or the shirt, because they don't want to, they don't want to come to gross. But I'm glad this discussion's happening because those people are kind of, like when someone starts to say all lives matters or what about the shirt,

what about the rioting, they're putting themselves out there. We kind of get a sense of where their head is. And I think it's important to re-educate those people. These people that are out here saying all lives matter, I think it's important to put those people in their place and say no one's saying that all lives aren't important. That's just not what we're talking about right now.

But we can all get better and grow. And we don't need to keep hammering this home. But, you know, I was confused about the looting and the rioting in 2014. I posted something, I think. And a friend of mine was like, hey, this is, you know, not cool. And we talked it out. And again, I can't, I need to keep, I need to stop bring this incident. But I always use it as an explanation of like, you can be reeducated and you can

unlearn your biases in these things and you can understand these things pretty quick if you're open. You know, Raina is a perfect example of that. Like you, a white person sees looting and rioting and violence, uh, which again, it is not condoned by a lot of the people that are doing this for the right reasons, uh, black and white. And they are like, what the fuck? And they go crazy about it. And then sometimes all it takes if they're open minded is a black person or it could be anybody. But, you know, it's helpful if it's somebody that is experiencing the oppression to be like, here's how it feels to live like me. And here's why people are retaliating in such a way and explaining how they feel. And we had a bunch of comedians post that one thing. It was like,

it was a huge burning building or some, it was a burning something. And then this, do you remember the name of the comedian, Raina? I will. But he, he was like, this is how I felt when blank and this is how I felt went blank and he kind of put this into perspective of like you see this burning building but like it's a metaphor for how I have felt my entire life and we saw I saw a lot of white male comedians that hadn't really spoken up about this post that and I felt positive about that because it was a real message you know it wasn't just a black square no shade to the black squares but it was like putting the damage done in the communities back to why they happened and it's trivial in comparison to the oppression we've had in this country for so way too long.

Yes. By the way, his name is John Laster. I thought it was really beautifully written. Chris DiStefano and Jared Freed, who we've also had the show, has reposted them. But if his account is private, I think it's really worth looking at. But, you know, my mistake helped me to be reeducated and helped me to be able to reframe things. Like I was talking to my mom last night. My mom was like, well, why can't you say that it's a bad thing?

And I was like, well, think about it like this. My mom was like a big activist in college for women and for women's rights. And I said to her, what if a man said to you, you know, gave their opinion on what you were doing and how you were protesting. Would you give a shit what a man had to say to you? Because he doesn't understand your experience. And I think being able to say that to my mom, who's of a very different generation, my mom's 70 years old. It just helps to, like, reframe things for people. You know, one of the things we're going to talk about in the town hall is, like, how to have,

what you guys are talking about, which is how can you put someone else in someone else? How do you, I call it guided empathy, how do you like ask the right questions? My friend put a poll up on Instagram, and I thought he asked one of the best questions ever for empathy, which was, would you want to be a black man in the United States? Right. 96% of the white respondents said no. And I'm sure some of those people before they even thought about that, heard that question and we're like, oh, there's no racism here.

But then when push comes to shove, would you want to be? So if the answer is no, why? Why? If there's no, like, inequality, why? So it's like, I hope that we get much more, like, much more sophisticated and how to ask those right questions. I think that's how we can have a discussion with our parents from previous generations. Like, how do we get them to just see how it feels? Empathy is so important.

It's not most many people don't have it. But how do we get real good at that? Because I think that's how we have these difficult discussions, which I think some younger people are struggling with the right words to say to their parents to make a change, right? And I think it has to be like what you guys are, Rayno, at least the conversation you're having with your mom. I mean, your mom, she gets it.

But at least she thought she was an activist for something. So at least there's a starting point for Raina's mom where some people feel, You know, no one's beyond hope, but some people, there's more of a block there. You know, and this could tie back into interracial relationships because I want to still go back to that. And how can you try to talk to your parents or try to make people see? And I mean, a lot of this is, is this whole like try to put yourself in someone's shoes, educating them with these tools, videos, town hall like you're doing.

I mean, I don't know another right answer. I think it's going to be different for everybody. Yeah, I think I've seen. I've seen situations close to home where parents, parents are unaccepting. And I mean, to be honest, Ashley, sometimes it does take someone like you saying, no, like, this is the person I'm going to be with. And I'm basically going to force feed them down your mouth, down your throat. And it could work.

I mean, when you get to see that, yeah, this person has a lot more common with us. Or he's an amazing person. Like, my daughter is lucky to be with that guy. Sometimes it'll be that. I don't, you know, different parents are different. But I've seen that work firsthand where it's like, so sometimes it's asking the right question sometimes, but I think exposure. And I think that's why this time is different than like in the 1960s because we've now

gone through integration of school. So most of us have gone to school with people of different races. It's usually why it's so shocking from the youngest generation, even think this stuff exists. I think there's hope there. But I think if we can force feed that older generation to just be a little more exposed and then they'll get a little more woke or start to get woke. If you're in a racial relationship, you just have to own it. Like both people, but especially that person that's receiving the criticism,

you can't be insecure and bothered by it. You're not doing your relationship any favor. So me, I was just like, fuck you if you don't like it. You know, like I really have always owned my shit and have been really confident. That's not everybody's story. So when you show weakness and you show weakness and you that you're doubting your relationship, everyone is able to jump on you

because they feel that sense of weakness and they know that you're unsure about it. So it's like from you, from the white person, if we're talking about a black and white relationship, for example, it's like, that's the first step. So if you're finding that you're doubting it and you're unsure, your partner's going to bear the brunt of that. And I know what your partner in college was going through

was really bad with her parents. And I can't put myself in her shoes, but not wanting to take you to the date parties and stuff. Like she's proving that. that she's doubtful of the relationship too. So if you're not ready to own it, then I don't know that you are ready to be in that relationship where you can rightfully stand up for your partner that is of color.

On the other side as well, friends who are black, dated white girls and their black parents are. Okay, yeah, for sure. And I'm glad you said that. It goes always. But, you know, it's the same thing. One thing about, like, messaging also,

and I don't, I'm not going to get political here, but symbols, so we talk about microaggression, like symbols, like flags or slogans, all of that, I think, if we're going to talk about, like, if we're going to educate on what we're doing, like, someone who's like, I'm not racist, but I have a Confederate flag on my truck, right? You know, you know what I'm saying? No, but give me their names. but we know that some people outwardly say they're not racist and the flag is for history but get out of here

we see that and the way we see that and the same goes for some sayings about making the country go back a few years that type of stuff like it's the same symbolic like the way we as a minority to receive that is one of I mean it's it's hurtful absolutely Before we move on from learning how to talk to people,

I do think it just bears mentioning because a lot of our listeners are in their 20s and 30s. And I was having an interesting discussion with my best friend who has, whose son's room I'm sitting in, about talking to your kids about it. And I actually talked about, you know, the first time that she realized there was racism was in college and me as well. Like the first time I ever heard an adult openly say something

really slanderous towards a minority I was in college in Indiana and I was so shocked by it because I grew up around a lot of black people. My high school was 50% black. My parents just never like talked to me about the fact that this existed. So I don't have kids

so I don't spend a lot of time learning how to talk to kids. But I do think it bears mentioning that like this can start with your small children as well, not just your parents. You know, nobody's born racist. You learn those things.

I don't have. kids. I don't think Ashley has kids, but... I don't think she does either. But since, I mean, we've all read about, like, active, you know, becoming anti-racists. And what I've read about parenting is you have to actively have the discussion with your kid. And that goes to, like, colorblindness. Colorblindness. See, that's not very articulate. Wow, you're so articulate.

Yeah, right. But, but no, you. you talk to them about the fact that there are different colors of people and they all bring something, they all have value and they bring something different to the table. But what I've learned is that you have to actively do it because if you don't actively have that discussion, you're going to allow the forces of society and media and all of that to influence their preconceived notions. And I think it's, hey, I think the protests that are happening is one of the best parenting

assistance that could happen because it forces parents to have this discussion, right? now. But I'm not an expert on how to talk to kids. I just think you have to actively accept that we have different races. In kid language, you know, talk to them about being accepting of other people. Bring those other people into the house. Kids model what they see their parents doing. So we as parents in the future need to, and we do have diverse groups, sets of friends. I think they have to model it. But I'm hopeful for those, I mean, for like the three, four, five year olds, I think one way or another, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, we're going to continue to stamp out racism.

Either we're all going to be the same or, you know, hopefully it won't take that, but we'll be able to incrementally get a little bit better. And there's a lot of tools. There's like, just Google it. You know, there's these books. I mean, it's like, if you're reading your children books, like incorporate more books by authors of color and all, like, that sends the right message. I mean, parents have a real responsibility to mold their kid's mind.

I mean, when you're a little kid, everything your parents says is a fact. So it's just like, yeah, that's on you. Yeah. It's not enough to just, and Laura said to me, she was like, we're not racist. So we didn't know, we never thought to say to him because he's five. He's a little boy. We never thought to teach him about this. But like you said, they're seeing this on television.

And like there was, I protest up the street and we walked up. Like we walked up with him to show him, you know. Oh my God. This is what's going on. And this is what's important. And I think that it isn't enough to just think today, well, I'm not racist and I don't say terrible things in my home. So my kid's not going to be either.

I think you got to take it today a step farther and say let's talk about being anti-racist. And I literally never thought about it until she was talking to me about her son. You know, when I was deciding whether or not I was going to move from Atlanta to New York, I thought one of the things that I liked about New York was it's just diversity. I mean, like you guys said, as a parent, you can't control every input for your kid. But if you put them in an environment that's diverse, you know, chances are they're going to be very accepting. Like you guys said, you grew up in, you know, 50% black school. Like just doing that is one way, I think, so you don't have to constantly have the discussion.

They're naturally going to appreciate people from different countries and different races. This is why I think integrating school is so important. I just want to just say like from a hope standpoint, I hope that this continues. I want to ask you guys, like, do you think that the. this is two things. Do you think that like everyone's going to remember this moment and the people who got woke are going to stay woke? Like people who didn't think racism existed,

but see it now, do you think they're convinced? And two, do you think that we're, that people who are saying, no, posting this is not enough. I'm going to be in it for the long,

do you think that's actually going to happen? I mean, for some people, yeah, they posted that black square. They'll never think about it again. I mean, absolutely. I think for,

I can only speak to myself. And I think that like, I am changed for, forever because of the last 10 days. I am not the most woke person that's ever lived. I'm not the most educated person. But like I have become better and I can help other people become better.

I think big change is hard. And I think that like Ashley said, changing politics and policy reform is, it's a huge amount of work to do. But like if I'm changed, I would hope and think that other people are as well. Yeah.

This is like huge, I think, obviously. This is not Ferguson, 2014. This is not what happened in 2016 that lasted for a couple days. I mean, people have been protesting for at this point that we're recording 11 days. I mean, people aren't stopping. They're not slowing down. So I think so.

I think I agree with what Raina said. People have been educated where I don't know that they would have otherwise. So I think so many people are viewing the world differently. People are going to resume their life as normal at some point. I think that social media will start to not, we'll feel like it was before this at some point. But I hope that people have made changes that continue. And we talked about this in our intro of like,

don't just support black-owned businesses this week. Like make those changes permanently. Did you replace your skincare products with products from a black-owned company? Keep doing that. You know, like keep going to those restaurants that were on all these lists. and keep writing and calling your representatives and working on these laws that you want changed and donating to worthy causes

and reviewing your work policies and hiring policies and all those types of things at your job. Live your life like you learn to do it in these past couple weeks. So, no, I don't think that everybody's going to continue posting this stuff on their Instagram all day, every day, forever. I think it'll, but I think people are changed for the better that took the time to educate themselves and to be changed. So that's my hope.

I just don't know what's going to happen, you know, law-wise, defunding the police and that movement, which please research that. It's not what you think it is. It's not to get all cops off the street. It's about reallocating budget and resources and things like that. So I hope that it continues and the effects of it are here to stay. I mean, this is the craziest year. of literally all time.

I cannot believe it's still a pandemic. Like, what's so cool is that people have an excuse to stay home. It's their health and their safety. And they're fucking out there with masks on, in the heat, you know, doing this. Like, and I'm not one of them. I'm not claiming to be. You know, I'm still here in Delaware. I mean, I'm sure I would be out on those streets if I was in New York.

And, you know, people are doing their work in different ways. and I don't think we should shame people for doing things how they are prefering to do it. But it is incredible to see. It really is. And I'm like, are you guys all voting just so we're clear? I mean, it's like if all these people care, like how did we get here? You know, it feels like the whole world, not the whole world. I'm still seeing All Lives Matter low key in my Facebook every once in a while.

It seems like the majority of people are on the right side. Okay. think. Are you hopeful? What I think? What if Fred was like, nah, nah. He like just, he gaslit us this old right. He's like, you bitches are crazy. Um, no, I'm, I'm hopeful. I was, I got my haircut for this, for our Zoom. I hadn't got my hair cut. Oh, you can get haircuts. Aren't, aren't you lucky? Yeah, you're right. Wow, Fred. I hadn't had one for like 12 weeks, but I was talking to my barber who's black. And I mean, you could just tell the pain and, and, and, and what do you say? he was, all he said was, I don't understand why they hate us.

I don't understand why when I walk into a store, people look at me differently. I mean, it was, I can't even really repeat what he's saying without choking up. But I mean, it was so sad. He's just like, I don't understand why people don't like me just because of the color of my skin. And I think that sentiment is what the majority of black America feels. and for them to see even the blackout Tuesday and the protesting for 11 days

and so many non-minorities speaking out, I think it makes a change. And I am hopeful that we're going to take a step for better. We're going to have a long way to go. And I don't think that people are going to stand for the type of incident to happen with George Floyd again. I think that will move on from And then hopefully people are awoken to the fact that we as blacks have to deal with things that we never, that we rarely ever express to other people.

And so I hope that it increases a level of sensitivity and awareness. So I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful. I mean, I don't think black people want handouts or they don't want favors. I think they just want to be respected as equal. That's all there is. And I'm hopeful. This has to be like the last time a cop does this, right? Like this has to be the last.

I mean, I can't. If a cop does this again, he feels like he has nothing to lose. And he's doing it and he's like, I could go to jail and I don't care. Because after what has happened based on that incident, of course, all the ones before it leading up to this, this was not the first time. It was not even the 10th time. I mean, this has been happening for so many years. even, you know, and well before we had cell phone cameras. So, but like...

Look at the Rodney King video. Of course. Yes, exactly. But this was the precipice. And what police officer could not be scared to ever initiate a movement like this and also get themselves prosecuted. So if nothing else, God, I hope that ends. Because what the fuck?

And those guys in Georgia. they thought they were going to get away with the Ahmaud Arbery thing. I mean, what we're doing now is like these people have got to be like, I can never do that again, you know, right? I don't know. Ashley, you brought up Amad Arbery. That one is like, it's not police related, obviously, but it's, I respect rights for guns.

But we have to, something has to change where people can't just think that because someone looks suspicious, they can just show. shoot him and kill him. I mean, what kind of country would we be living in? It's, it's like, we already have enough challenges with trained police officers using excessive force. How can we allow citizens to then like act as police officers and they don't have any training? So they have all the biases in the world to do whatever they want. Like, and then it took two months. If there was no video, those guys would still be walking around. It's, it's, um, We have work to do.

We have work to do. That's what I want to let people know is like it's not just about criminal justice, which is hard. But we have, there's a lot of other stuff going on. We have to deal with on a daily basis. It's a Mont Harbury case. It's,

I hope those guys come to justice. I hope. I cannot, we don't want to bring this back to women's rights. It's different. And women's rights are different. We can't stress that enough. But we have women.

I respect women. Yeah. Thank you. We have so many women's that listen to this podcast. So I like to tie back to that to try to that to try to draw. comparisons and you know things change when you bring down the people that have been wrongdoing. So like before Roger Ailes and Harvey Weinstein men were getting away with all this stuff so there was no consequences. So like they all got brought down and now men are scared and they fucking should

be because a lot of them have been on bad behavior for quite some time. So if nothing else like people have seen the consequences because clearly those two men that shot Amad Arbery thought there would be no consequences. So at least knowing, you know, I know for sure when all those men got taken down Fox News as a whole, you know, and Harvey Weinstein and the rest of them, like it made men scared to act like that. So hopefully it makes racist white people that have guns and it makes cops scared because surprise, we have consequences now. I'm so glad you brought the Me Too movement because it's exactly what I was thinking about. And yes, at least the beginning of that was that it put the fear of God into people

for behaving a way that they probably would have behaved. And, you know, if you don't, it takes a long time to re-educate people, people that are going to really hurt somebody, at least you're terrified that, oh, my God, suddenly there's consequences. And I do think that that, like, day one, every man of the Me Too movement was like, am I doing something wrong? Am I going to get in trouble? It's like, yeah, now you have to think about that step.

So I'm glad, I'm glad that you drew that, you know, parallel It's not the same thing, but, you know. That's very important too, though. It's very important. It's just about consequences. It doesn't matter what it's about. It's just simply about doing things for years and years without consequences. And then all of a sudden, there's consequences.

So that's all, you know. So if nothing else, now they exist. All the officers were charged. Again, I don't, don't quote me on what's at this moment. What's happening, it changes day by day. But do you want to wrap up with Fred? Anything we feel like we missed or you want to talk about? I really wanted to end with the hope piece, you know, that I'm optimistic that I do think

that this is going to last. As tough as it's been to share experiences with my non-minority friends, it's been healing for me. I would be lying if I didn't have a little bit of fear that business is going to go back to you to normal and we're kind of going to be left. I'm going to be left like more vulnerable. everyone knows what I've dealt with, but they're going to go on with their lives. That's probably one of the most damaging things I could see

is like everyone just being happy, hunky dory, and they've left us kind of. But I'm hopeful that that won't happen. I'm hopeful with our interactions, there'll be a little bit more care and thought. So I'm also looking forward to the town hall. Yeah, let's plug that. Yeah, and the town, so two things.

Like, I've engaged in some really difficult conversations with people I know have opposing viewpoints to what we're doing. And I feel like I'm probably going to do that for the rest of my life, no matter what I do. I'm going to be putting out more content for education pieces and more touching pieces like the guy you mentioned. So I'm going to be doing that. And then also this conversation that we're having on the 14th, we really want to hit home on like, one, all right, I said I don't know what it's like to be in your shoes. We want to let people see what it's like to be in our shoes first and foremost. we'll do a little bit of education on like covert overt races and all that.

And then we want to have some concrete action steps on what everyone can do. Because the plan is to just get everyone, everyone's firing everyone's belly and everyone worked up. And then we want to just guide them and what they should do. How to have the tough conversations, what legislation will look out for, how to just be there for your black friends. And then hopefully that's the first of many conversations we'll have to help guide everyone through this. And it's two-sided. It's not just, hey, white people.

is what you need to do. It's going to be, this is what we need to do. This is what you guys need to do. Let's walk together. So I'm really excited about that. And it may define what I do from here on out. We'll see. I'm excited to be a part of it too. Can you tell people how they can log into it? Yeah. So if anyone's interested in it, just go to join theconvo.com. So the name of the event is join the convo. That's it. We'll collect your contact info and send you information on how to join. It's going to be a virtual panel on YouTube. And you'll have, see all the panelists, and I'll be the moderator, and it's going to be a real in-depth, substantive discussion. But it's join theconvo.com. Cool. If it was anything like this conversation, I'm sure it'd be great. This was

really fantastic. I feel like people will have learned a lot. I learned a lot. You've been really generous with your time and your feelings. Thank you for having me. And then, Fred, anything else? Do you want to just shout out Instagram handle, fitness stuff? I think You mentioned the, is it workout with Fred? Yeah, I mean, I'm teaching fitness classes from home virtually. And, and I've, it's been a joy. So I like rhythm. So only people with rhythm should be taking my class.

You're like, good. And you have rhythm. That's Ashley and not me. I mean, Fred and I bonded over like music and hip hop and Atlanta feeling a little segregated in where we could go get down. dance and stuff like that. So that was a lot of our conversations way back when. Yeah. But that's my style. I like, I do like hip hop music, but anyone can take my classes. Workout with fred.co. But more importantly, like everything I'm doing, just find me on Instagram,

Fred M. Smith. And you'll see links to all of the stuff that I'm involved in. And I appreciate you guys having me on here. And I look forward to meeting, meeting some of your people. Yeah, absolutely. You guys, he is not single. Stay out of those DMs. Well, thank you so much, Fred. We are going to say bye to you. And you guys just stick around.

We're going to do another quick short segment to wrap up this episode. So we will talk to you in a few. Bye, Fred. Bye. All right, guys. We're back. And I just wanted to add on to our conversation we have with Fred because literally, like right after we ended with him,

we got a message from one of you listeners who was having a hard time dealing with a friend that they weren't seen eye to eye with in terms of just race and probably kind of at all lives matter type of person and she was asking do I cut ties with this friend, how do I handle this? And so I really, we felt remiss

that we didn't really get into that with Fred. So I actually just checked in with him to see what he would have to say so we can hear the advice from the guest and he said that he has had a lot of conversations with people and he has one friend in particular that just he feels is kind of brainwashed and close-minded and just can't seem to understand where he's coming from, where anyone is coming from with this stuff nowadays. And so he has really just distance himself. And he said he hasn't

shut the door completely, but he is distancing himself from that friend and possibly others. And I do think that's the answer. You know, I think if you want to cut people out of your life, because you're like, I, you know, disgusted with the way that you think and your inability to open your mind and see the world in a different way. That's totally your prerogative. But I think distancing is always fine.

And we've said this too. Friendships, Eben Flo. People are growing right now. Your friends that are so close-minded now could really be more educated and understanding about the world issues five years from now or one year or whatever. So I just think distance is probably the answer

and say your piece and make your point. known, but if you need to take some time away from some friends right now, I don't see anything wrong with that. So to me, that's the answer. I'm really glad you brought that up, and I think distance and time is really important. And I have a girlfriend of mine who you know is a really close, long-time friend of mine, and she's a big Trump supporter. And she's really like my only girlfriend that is. And, you know, we had this crazy screaming fight at a restaurant one night. I got it, but I left a restaurant. I was so mad at her. And looking back on it.

it wasn't productive to treat her like that and it wasn't productive to be screaming at her and let myself get to that level and you know I've tried to express my feelings with her and yeah all I've been able to do is give it time and a little bit of distance and I just I love what he said and I love what you said and I think that in my life I've tried to apply that and it has helped and it has worked and this will lead us into what we're doing now which are the things that you guys are doing to support the Black Lives Matter movement, educate yourselves. But if you have a friend that you just cannot get there with, if they're refusing to attempt to open their minds and see things differently,

then I might cut that person off. But I don't know. Could you be like, hey, can you just read this book? Can you just watch this Netflix documentary? Like, and then tell me what you think. You know what I mean? If you want to, if you will just watch the 13th or whatever you choose, if you will just read this book and tell me what you think,

and you still feel the way that you feel that I don't know what else to do, but at least if there's someone that's willing to be like, I'll do one thing, you know, or listen to one podcaster or something like that. Like, I can't imagine someone diving into one of these really incredible resources and still not understanding a little bit better. I mean, you could try with your friends. I think it's a beautiful thing,

but I think that, you know, you're not responsible for undoing. Of course. Decades of learning from that person's parents. you didn't raise them. You don't know where they came from. And yeah, I think the 13th is amazing. It refers to the 13th Amendment. I think that there's a million podcasts that are great.

Spoiler. 1619 was a great podcast. If you want to just learn about slavery, if somebody listens to those things and does not feel moved by it, if you're not like driving your car listening to 1619 crying, then I can't do anything else to help you.

Yeah, like if you read some of these articles and whatever, let's just get into it. But anyway, we're going to give you guys some resources. Yes, we asked you guys what you've done this week to support the Black Lives Matter movement and what you will continue to do. A lot of people I saw set up recurring things that they're going to do. You guys were so fantastic. A lot of the same stuff.

So a lot of petitions you guys are signing, a lot of protests, podcasts, books, movies, documentaries. We wanted to highlight some really creative stuff that I haven't seen out there as much. And then we are happy to also put on our story as we have other resources for you guys. So we're just going to read off your suggestions. They were phenomenal. Thank you for submitting them. Yeah, we're just going to divide these. And I'm going to take half.

Raina's going to take half of these are just a fraction of the hundreds that we received. You guys came through as always. All right, I'm going to kick it off. Had an intense convo with my mom about why Black Lives Matter after she told me all lives matter, making lists of city officials to send letters to. Raina, you love a list. I love a list. Donated my entire stimulus check to BLM.

Thanks, Trump. watched dear white people and bought clothing from a black-owned boutique, went to a protest. I've never been to one before, and I was nervous, but it's too important. Ordered a sign to display proudly in my yard in my very small town. Checking in to see how my friends are doing about it and having conversations, restocked my wine from Happy Cork in Brooklyn, owned by black women. I love this.

Trolling my racist family's post with informative articles, negating their points. I love that. Troll your family. Not. Someone literally wrote RIP to my racist. aunt and uncle. Like, people are just,

fuck this. If you haven't made your parents feel like shit this week, what are you even doing? I don't need to though. My parents are so woke. I just, you know, they had their church this morning.

They have their Unitarian. You know, I think probably half the congregation are people of color, gay couples. Like, you know, my parents are fucking woke. I'm just joking.

I think your parents are right. But I think that, you know, I try to give my parents a little bit of leeway for the fact that they are in their 70s and grew up in another generation. And I want to explain things to them in a, whatever, I don't tell you guys.

in like a calm way that changes their mind. This girl said, making my family watch the 13th instead of Fox News. I love that. Someone wrote not reposting memes and speaking from the heart. During COVID, I paid off all my debt and I'm now transferring those payments to BLM. My husband and I split our paychecks this week

and we donated everything we could to Black Lives Matter. And I guess this is a teacher that wrote Changing the Texts I'm teaching next year to be more diverse. I love anything that you're teaching. If you can incorporate more Black Voices, do it. Yes, educate them young, fam. Okay, started Instagram Book Club to be more introspective on our subconscious bias, donating my racist family member's birthday gift money for me to protest bail funds.

That is strong. This segment should have been called Fuck Your Family. Think about this girl taking, like, her grandma's birthday check and she's sending it. I love it. Just bear with me for this one. It took me a second. chalking accountable steps on my driveway. Like she's making art in her driveway of accountable steps.

Yes. Set up recurring donations to the ACLU, the NAACP, and other charities. If you guys don't know, you can always set up recurring donations to most charities. Emeled my company CEO requesting mandatory diversity training company-wide, letting my best friend know that I love her by attending my first ever protest with her. I love that. Doing Rachel Cargill's 30-day hashtag do the work with my. mom. Yeah, and guys, just go to Rachel Cargill's Instagram. All the things are there. I think her

organization is called The Great Unlearn. You can go to her Patreon. There's all these resources. She has a syllabus that's monthly and tons of resources there. Great person to follow on Instagram. Donating books, supplies, and food to underprivileged city schools, having YouTube, BLM, ad revenue videos playing on my laptop all day long, writing to city council. members. This one's great. I'm a massage therapist. I'm offering local BLM organizers massages. Starting, and it's sexy and it's nice. Starting an anti-racist educator collective will compile resources, donating to the United Negro College Fund, starting a book club with friends to read important black authors and discuss. And finally, this gives me chills all over. Showing the fuck up. Yes. And I just wanted to re-quote something from Marie Faustin, who was a guest that we've had on

the show, episode 68, right before 69, easy to remember. And she posted this video on her Instagram. So you guys can go watch it. Her Instagram is Reasy with three E's. And it's, I'm paraphrasing here because she really got and got into it. But it is show up. If you don't want to show up, then you speak up. If you don't want to show up, speak up, then you pay up. If you don't want to show up, speak up pay up, then you read up. If you don't want to show up, speak up, pay up, or read up, then you shut up. And I just like loved it.

I mean, she dives into each of those things more and what she means by them. But like, fucking do something, man. Like, you know, I think that, you know, people, I think that people are all waking up to New World where they're like, I don't know how to be a member of this movement. And like she laid it out very simply. There are a million ways to do it.

And I'm proud of you guys for everything that you guys are doing to show up and just change the internalized biases that we literally all have because Ashley and I literally care. Yes, we do. All right. Let's wrap it up. Yes. Thank you guys for being a part of this episode. It was really special. Thank you for all of your feedback, your kind feedback and your advice and your willingness to do the work and educate yourselves, help educate me and Ashley. You guys know that it's really important to us to uplift these kind of voices. So we are really proud to do this kind of stuff. Yeah. And we're learning to. We're not out here saying that we're perfect by literally any stretch. We are not civil rights

activists. We are just, we're doing the work along with everybody else. So as so many of you guys have educated us too. So I can't just reiterate what Raina said. We're all a work in progress. So hopefully we're just all moving forward. And you guys know where to find us. Girls Gotta Eat Podcast.com. Girls got to eat podcasts on Instagram. Raina.org on Instagram. Ash Hess on Instagram girls underscore got to eat on Twitter, YouTube.com slash girls got to eat. And, you know, if you like the podcast, give us a positive review on iTunes. All right, guys, enjoy your week. Get out there, do some good in the world.

Yes, bye, guys.