Girls Gotta Eat - Skincare Secrets, Hair Health, and Hormones with Dr. Mamina Turegano

Episode Date: August 17, 2026

We all have so many questions about skin, hair, aging, hormones, diet, the list goes on – so we brought in Dr. Mamina Turegano, a triple board-certified dermatologist, internist, and dermatopathologist – to answer them. We discuss the lifestyle factors that accelerate the aging process and how to manage them, the best foods for healthier skin and hair, all the tea on topical estrogen, and the truth about chemical vs. mineral sunscreen. We deep dive on hair health – what causes hair loss/shedding, growth products that actually work, the one thing NOT to do if you’re shedding excessively, GLP-1s and hair loss, if oiling is worth it, and how often to wash your hair. And we get into skincare, including the three products everyone should have, what to use at what age and in what order, products to splurge and save on, retinoids, red light, collagen, microneedling, salmon sperm facials, and more. Before Dr. Mamina joins us, Rayna opens up a fridge debate and how she prepped for a male visitor, and Ashley has a dog update. Enjoy! Follow Dr. Mamina on Instagram @dr.mamina and check out dermclick.com. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for more. Thank you to our partners this week: Rocket Money: Reach your financial goals faster at https://rocketmoney.com/gge. BetterHelp: See reviews and decide if it’s right for you at https://betterhelp.com/gge. IM8: Get a free welcome kit, 5 travel sachets and 10% off your order at https://im8health.com/gge and use code GGE. SmileSet: Get $500 off your aligner treatment at https://smileset.com/gge. Mint Mobile: Get your new wireless plan for just $15/month at https://mintmobile.com/gge. Revolve: Get 15% off your first order at https://revolve.com/GGE with code GGE. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's even overwhelming for me and I feel like I know better. I am 43. I have a lot of information. I know it works for me and I still am like, do I need that? Should I be getting that treatment? Oh my gosh. Same. And I'm a dermatologist.

Yes, right. This podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi, guys. Hi, guys. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Got to Eat. Welcome back. Coming to you from both coasts yet again. We're making it work.

Well, the interview we were together and it was a blast. Yes. So we really fun interview today with Dr. Mamina Teregano and we are talking all about skin and hair and it's really fun. But before we're getting into it, we're just going to catch you guys up on some stuff. Okay, I have somebody so excited to tell you. Wait, before you tell me. What? You know what's funny? It's like this is an episode not about like dating or sex or relationships, but you did manage to get salmon sperm in there. Just wait. It's at the very end. Listen to the end. And we got, that's how we make it sexy.

You can bring up sperm, which I'm sure you have plenty of that all over your house. Why? It's in my hair. It's everywhere. It's everywhere. Okay. Well, I have something really exciting to announce. So today, as you guys listen to this, Shashon and I are starting our foster dog journey.

So we have been wanting to foster. I feel really inspired by Isabel Klee, who we had on. And Azul is just so good with other dogs. So I really was like, let's just try it. Let's just see if we can bring another dog into the home. He can have a buddy and we got approved with wags and walks. And when they send the list out of all the dogs that are available for fostering, they're not always a fit because some of them can't be in a home with another dog or just various reasons.

They might have something going on health-wise, which could be fine if you didn't have another dog at home. But like with a zool, obviously he's our priority. So we put in our first choices when we got the email yesterday. I sit all day waiting for this email to come. It comes around like lunchtime and I'm just like waiting and I pounce on it. And the first two options just were already spoken for. And then they were like, would you want to take this dog for a short term foster? We're only going to have him for like five days, which I thought was interesting.

And I don't really know why. I'll get the whole story. So today, as you guys listen to the 17th, we are going to take in this dog for the next five days. And I'm just going to show you on the screen. Oh, my God. It's a black pug. It is an eight-year-old black, big. a pug, 25 pounds.

25 pounds? Is it a boy or girl? It's a boy. Oh my God. I love him. His name is Zizu, which like is something I call Azul. I know. How did this happen?

So we have Azul and Zizu, a senior pug. Can you believe the first? I can't believe I'm not there. I'm so upset. The first dog you foster is a pug. Oh, I'm so jealous. So it just says Zizu, eight year old, 25 male pug mixed breed. He was found as a stray before coming into our care. He's really funny.

He just wants to chill. He just loves affection. And he has some allergies. We might have to like give him a bath. He takes like weekly baths to manage his allergies and so like like a like an old man. I can't even see videos of them together. Oh. I'm so excited. Just two black dogs. So we'll see how this goes. And honestly, this is probably for the best. Like because usually you really need to commit to two weeks. And we've never done this. before and so I like this short-term five-day see how it goes to start this whole process. Do you feel like a lot of this is going to fall on you? I mean, Shoshan goes to work every day.

I mean, it's just going to be you and the dogs every day. That's why I like a old chill dog. Eighth. Eight is not that old, but they send you their personality types. And there are a few that, like, I love the look of them and the vibe, but they're like, puppy energy and I just don't they need some of them say like needs an experienced handler which I'm an experienced handler but like I'm taking two dogs like we wanted to almost take this 120 pounds St. Bernard and I was like I just can't do it it's just I you can't be alone all day long

with two giant dogs right like who's this to be fine and she's so excited midday like he can always he juts home midday all the time okay all right so you can come help babysit in the middle of the day well yay congratulations I'm very excited I can't want to see all the content online. This really like picked, this picked up my spirits today. We've been having some issues. But this really lifted my, this lifted my spirits a lot. Yes, a

hug for Raina. Okay, well, let's just talk about a partners. Then I know you have some stuff to share. Okay, thank you to Rocket Money. Reach your financial goals faster at RocketMoney.com slash GGE and BetterHelp. See reviews and decide if it's right for you at betterhelp.com slash gGE and IMA. Get a free welcome kit, five free travel

sachets and 10% off your order at IMatehealth.com slash GGE and use code GGE. Okay. And thank you to SmileSet. Get $500 off your aligner treatment at smile set.com slash gge and MintMobile. Get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month at mintmobile.com slash GGE and Revolve. Get 15% off your first order at revolve.com slash GGE with code GGE.

Okay. I'm dealing with a situation. I'm just curious what you think about it and what you do. Let's hear it. I'm curious with the audience. Thanks. So I had this guy call me to stay with me. Raina's taking a lover.

I'll tell you guys when there's something to tell you. But I've only been in this apartment like 10 days over the last two months. So I don't have food here. I have no food. I have zero things in my refrigerator. And like Melanie was like, show me your refrigerator. I know it's fucking in there. It's tequila and water and like three prepared food containers.

I know it is. And I open it. That's literally exactly the only thing that I have in there. I can picture it. I've seen it. And those water bottles, you guys are just like water bottles that she just refills from the tap, which is fine. But it's like you're not getting a freshie. You're never going to break the seal on a water bottle out of Raina's fridge. No, that's a good point. You're never going to break the seal. So Melanie forced me to go to the grocery store and stock the fridge. She was like, you're going to look like a serial killer. Like you need food for a man if he's like in your house. And I'm like, I don't, why? Who cares? He looks like he eats. He's a lot of protein. he needs it when he popped in earlier I was like please let him still be there I just want to take a look

so I was like what do I get so I made her like make me a grocery list so you get out of the game so long what do men eat? Like what do people keep in their refrigerator I just I don't do that

like I go to whole foods when I need food or I go to the grocery store downstairs I get the prepared foods I need but like I didn't even have condiments Like, I don't have a bottle of ketchup in the fridge. I have nothing. So I had to go to the grocery store and, like, I got stuff for shakoutery. I got three cheeses and three meats.

I wanted to make it look like I cook breakfast sometimes. So I got spinach and eggs. I got limes and lemons for the tequila. I got some La Croy. And then I stocked the whole fridge with condiments. I just sent you this photo. And it's, I think they're a little, we'll put it up on the screen for you guys, too. I think they're a little too organized.

And it looks performative. Yes, Melanie told me it looks like an AI photo of condiments. 100%. This is the funniest photo. It's also just like really clean and nice, but it looks like a woman entered the day in the world and was like, I need condiments in my fridge. So this guy doesn't think of the psycho, and that's what she did. And you know what else she made me do is I had to open the mall, so I had to take the little plastic off. You didn't have to break a seal.

Yes. So I had to open all the condiments up and make everything look like it's been used. I had to like use a little bit of some of them. Like I just spilled out some of the mayonnaise. Stop it. You were like, you know what? Let's put a little frying red hot around the top. You know, it gets all like.

All crusty. Jelly or crusty around the top. Yeah. Rina, I like what you have going on here, though. I like this organic Greek yogurt dressing looks good. Are there olives? Capers? You got capers.

I got capers and Cornishones. I got two. I'm sending you a photo of the full fridge as well. so that you know there's it. I got two bottles of natural wine. I got some hummus. This looks great. He said he likes Mountain Valley. He says he likes Mountain Valley water. I know. That's how I know I like him. This is my boyfriend and my wife. So much in common. So, okay, lemon spin drips. We have those in the fridge right now too. Okay. Great. Okay. I see an ice roller. Love that. This is great. That's it. Yeah. He said that he likes Mountain Valley. So I got him one

bottle. So I wanted to do something nice. And then you will be refilling that from the tap, sir, New York water. He doesn't live in New York, y'all, so he doesn't know about that clean New York City water. I said, I said, I had fill up with the tap. It's the best, it's the best tap water in the world. New York City water. It is. It is. It really is. Okay, well, I think you did good. Emily was like, you need to have food in your fridge. You look like a serial killer. And I was like, well, unlike you, I give blow jobs. So when he gets here, I'll ask him if he would like me to suck his dick or if he'd like a slice of Munchango cheese. And I promise you. Fired. Poor Emily. Emily catching a

stray over here? No, I'm proud of her. She feels no need whatsoever. She's like, I'm not like you. I'm pretty. So I don't have to suck dick. She's never said that to me. But yes, I was like, I don't, I suck dick unlike you. So you make a little shuckoo-a-cudry board. I don't have to. Manchego or a blowjob, green and green bird. I couldn't wait to tell you. Do you think men would care, I don't think they care about anything, but do you think it was, she said it was a huge red flag if somebody opens your fridge and there's no food in it. And I feel like if I open a man fridge and there was no food, I would find it a little odd, but I don't care what standard my refrigerator is being held to. I don't think a guy would ever be like, oh, I have the ick.

She didn't have anything in her fridge. I mean, you know me. I don't, I've, my man cooks for me. So the fridge, that's his business. No, I make a lot of food too. But our fridge looks like so adult now. It's like it looks like a grown up family fridge. There's tons of condiments, tons of stuff. You know, like it's just, it's a lot. It's, it feels grown. I don't know, but I feel proud of it. Tons of meat. That butcher box is still hidden. I still have tons of meat. But like, okay, other people, okay, if you don't have kids and you live above a grocery store, which is my situation. All I have to do is just go feed myself downstairs. Why would I have food in the fridge? I don't, if I want to cook something.

Food. Like, I don't know. You have such weird eating habits. Like, I make breakfast. I make lunch. And then we make dinner. I don't know what you're doing. You leave the house for every meal. Like I love to have to have my fruit in the morning. We get it from the farmer's market every Saturday. And then I usually make eggs for a late breakfast with some sort of toast or English muffin or a bagel or whatever. And then I might have like something in the afternoon. Then we cook dinner. I don't know.

Like we just got shit in the fridge and that's really not how you're living. But when your fridge is stocked, it's a good fridge. Because what I would come to your house and you would have all those dips, all those prepared foods. Like you really, your snack game is on point. It's all or nothing with you really. Yeah. That's why I had sex three times today, you know? But I haven't had sex in ages. You're going to need that fuel. So you need to make sure you get those capers. Don't walk down. I don't know what the fuck that you're for. Really get that frieds red hot and those capers and those lemon spin jerks ready for the seventh time you guys fuck by the end of day.

Yeah, I don't think he would have opened up the fridge and be like, we're not having sex because you don't have enough snacks. No, I don't think guys are. I don't know. I don't. I don't know. I actually. guess there's guys out there that they want a woman who cooks and cleans and should be in the kitchen and they are thinking about it from a little more conservative angle and they would flag it. But also just anyone who lives alone, you can't really judge him on their fridge. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for the support. And also, I do cook and clean? It's just I don't happen to have anything in the fridge. Thank you. Thank you for your support. Well, let us know in the comments what you guys think about this. Is it crazy to open up a woman's fridge and there's no food? No. And do we care? I don't care of my thing. Live your truth, ladies. Yeah. Okay. Well, I guess I want to share a little life update. We talked last week about my decision to move or not move from L.A. to New York. And I do feel like where I stand now is, if it's not a fuck yes, it's a no right now. And Raina supports this. This isn't a surprise to her. I really just feel like if we're so, if we can't make this decision, then it's not the right time. And I really want to feel like I'm so ready. And that's, is how I am approaching this of like if this decision is so hard to make, then we don't need to make it right now. Yeah. I mean, I thought we had you for a second to New York. I thought I really thought we had you. I was like, she's going to do it. We've had the most fun this summer. How could she ever be away from me? And I thought that you were really doing it. Shachan was in. But then we went back.

I also went back with you. And when you went upstairs to take a shower and him and I were having our friendship moment downstairs, he was like, we just had this really nice day today. And the weather was beautiful and we took a walk with the Zool and we're just like in our house cooking dinner and I just like I don't think I'm ready for it either and at least you're aligned on it and I mean I say all the time it's not like I moved no offense to like North Dakota but I moved to North Dakota like you and I will be in each other's cities all the time so yeah I have a lot of plans to go to New York I was in New York a lot this summer and I'll keep doing that and I just think that's the life I want to live right now I've changed my mind I thought it would be sooner than this and I think where we're at now was

If Shishonk gets a job transfer or he gets like another job or an opportunity on the East Coast, we will go or it will be the spring and it's kind of whatever comes first at this point. But I think we're going to be here a little bit longer. And we just had the best weekend. And I just kind of wanted to share a couple things we did. So Saturday morning was this event with Dr. Barrett and who is our surgeon who does, he does our injectables. But brain has also gotten plastic surgery with him. And she got a breast augmentation and some other things.

And they did this recovery wellness little retreat. thing. And it was just so stunning. It was at this gardens and Beverly Hills, like, Pilates class, sound bath, just like all these beautiful women and matching sets. I was like, this is a paradise. It was so nice. He was there. He like spoke. His wife was there. Rosalind. We love her. It was just like, that's just really nice thing. And like, those are the moments where I look around. I'm like, give this all up for what? You know? And I get it. There's, it's different lifestyle. But like, I'm really like, I like that. Like, you know what I mean? That's what I want to do in the weekends. but I said this all the time.

I want to be in L.A. in the weekends. I want to be in New York during the week. So that was really nice. So shout out to Dr. Barrett. You guys always like check them out. And they are really focusing on this Barrett recovery, which is like the NED supplements I take and the collagen that we take and the red light mask and all this stuff. And, you know, I, we talk about him all the time, but he did my breast augmentation. And the recovery was completely unlike the last.

I mean, I needed an augmentation because of how bad the reduction was. and truly was just like a different experience because of the steps that he gave me in terms of red lights and the things I was taking in terms of supplements and things like that. So, you know, I'm a bear at for life. Yeah. So you guys can check out post op recovery. This isn't like an ad this week. This is just we want to tell you where to find this stuff. So postoprecovery.com is the red light, the magnesium, which is great. I take that at night. The NAD supplements. People have always asked me for this link. So I wanted to give it out in the actual podcast and the collagen and all that stuff. My code is code asch 20. So we did that. And then I see that Jacqueline, my wedding planner, who we've had on the podcast, she posted an Instagram story that she had been to Phantom of the Opera the night before in LA at the Pantages Theater. And I was like, what are you saying to me?

This, as we know, if you know, you know that this was like the longest running show on Broadway of all time. And they took it off Broadway last year. It ran since 87 or 88 or something. And they're traveling now. And I'm like, oh my God, what is this? And she goes, girl, you got to go tonight, whatever it costs. I'm like, say less.

My wedding planner says, you have to do it no matter the cost. I'm doing it. I learned that all last year. So I was like, I have to go. I got a line. There were like six tickets left. I did splurge. But again, I didn't have many options.

I got really good seats. And Shishon and I went. And it was incredible. I mean, I wanted to cry. I saw this when I was six with my mom on Broadway, really great seats. She took me into the city. And it was like one of my. Core memories from childhood.

And it is still stayed my favorite musical of all time. I had the soundtrack. I listen to it nonstop. It is truly the best. I love it so, so much. And it just hit the same. Like the second, the, like, music starts. And then like the chandelier shakes.

And they still drop the chandelier. Right. I couldn't believe they dropped the chandelier. Because I would have thought that was in the 80s different vibe. Now there's way more liability. No safety. Are they going to drop the chandelier? And they did.

And Shishak loved it too. I was like, oh my God. I was just so happy that he loved. it. And it was just amazing. The production value, the cast, the singing and all the original music, I was obsessed. So we did that. And then Sunday, we went and saw DJ Michael Leary, who DJ at our wedding, but he is not a wedding DJ. He's this incredible DJ that does this thing called Sunday cleaning at different spots a lot in New York City and all over the country now and put some on YouTube and people are obsessed with them. And he's so,

so good and we hadn't been to one of them. So he came to Orange County and it was about an hour, a little under an hour for us to get there and we were able to go there and like be a part of it. It was in this coffee shop record store hybrid called Contra Coffee in Orange, California. And he did his thing and like seeing him in his element and just like being able to vibe out, the vibes were so high just midday. There's no alcohol. People are just having coffee. It's one to four p.m. people are dancing. People are grooving. And just it was incredible. so good to see him. Shishon had a gift from him. He had this Macmillar vinyl that he had bought him to thank him after our wedding that he hadn't gotten to him yet. So we gave him that. And it was just

like such a good weekend. Like those, you know, Dr. Barrett, a fan of the opera, Sunday cleaning with DJ Michael Larry. And I was like, yeah, I think we're going to. I knew you were going to stay for a minute. And then we. Oh, I just, oh, this is about you moving. Get out of here. I knew you guys were going to fuck. I was like, we don't know. I was, I was, I was, no. I was. I was. No. I just knew that Sunday was a horny day. I just knew I could pick the days sometimes. Yeah. So we had a good little sash.

And that was a weekend. So, you know, just wanted to share those things. And if you guys ever get a chance to see if I have the opera or Michael Larry or Dr. Barrett, you should. You know what I am really like? I'm like, you know what I like about here? What I'm really enjoying is that like every day this week for the last four days, like a friend of ours has texted me.

I'm downstairs or I'm like right out. your building and like, can we go for a walk? And like, that's really why I moved here is to, like, have spontaneous plans with people. Like, our friend Bobby was like, I was training somebody downstairs, making some content. Do you want to come out and, like, take a walk with me? Like, it's really nice to be like, I just have people around again. I love that. I want to be around people all the time. And even I feel like most of the weekend I spent was Shishonk, but at least going to that event on Saturday was with like a bunch of people. I met new people. Like, that really filled my cup and then the rest of the weekend was mostly us. And I mean, in Mike and different people,

but I really want to be around people. And I think a lot of people travel in the summer and people are starting to come back. So I finally have social plans with the five friends I have here. And I have like a lunch tomorrow. I have like plans this weekend, plans next week. Like that's what makes me really happy and brings me joy and fills my cup as like friends, social activities, plans. Yeah, me too. We didn't. But yeah, it's obviously New York is the top when it comes to that. But I think, yeah, we're going to stay here for a little while longer. So just an update from last week. But I could change my mind again next week. You guys really never know. I'd just like to keep you guys to keep you guys. I think the fomo. I'm just going to lay in it. I just don't like to be not nice to you. I feel like I don't like to be like this is so fun. You should be here. You should be here. You do it enough. It's constant. it. It's not a promiseful.

Bitch, you're the one that's like, you should stay. I know you're not ready to leave you. Because I support you no matter what you want to do, but I do want you to be here. I'm sick of shit. Okay. I'll be this. I do fucking support you, whatever. But like, I'm sick of this.

Listen, you have a man now. You're going to be fine. No, I don't. Okay. Well, let's just talk about our partners and then we will get into it with Dr. Mamina. So I'm telling you guys about smile set. So we are talking today about the way you look and feel.

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So it's just kind of the best of both worlds that you get to do it from home, but then have the doctor walk you along in the process. And there are treatment options and payment plans that fit around your life, nighttime-only aligners. So this is what I want to do is just straighten my teeth. Only at night. I don't want it to be all during the day, but you can do whatever you prefer. So you can just straighten your teeth while you sleep. Over two million smiles treated with this technology. There is a 30 day money back guarantee after starting treatment, which is great too. If you're a little hesitant, they are going to offer that to you.

And you guys can check it out. You can visit smile set.com slash dge to get $500 off your aliner treatment and finally make someday happen. That's smile set.com slash dge for $500 off smile set.com. slash GTE. Okay. And this episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. So you've heard us talk about BetterHelp for a long time and obviously all the benefits that there are to therapy and checking in with yourself, whether you want to address things in your life like your job or you're a friend group or you're obviously romantic life. But I don't know if we ever really talked about how much people love the service when they use it. So you can check it out for yourself at BetterHelp.com slash reviews to see the amazing customer reviews in real time. So reviews are updated every day. There's hundreds of people saying how much they love BetterHelp. and how helpful it is for them. And you can visit betterhelp.com slash reviews to just see it for yourself. BetterHelp is an average live therapy session rating of 4.9 out of five based on over

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capable device required, availability, speed, and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com. And let's get into it. All right, guys, we are really excited to welcome our guest today. She is a triple board certified dermatologist, internist, and dermatopathologist. Dermatopathologist. Specializing in medical, cosmetic, and integrative dermatology with more than two million followers across social media, 16 years of experience in dermatology, and 11 years in a private practice. She's become a trusted voice on science-backed skincare, hair health, and wellness, blending traditional dermatology with a holistic approach. Please welcome to the show, Dr. Mamina Tarragonal. Thank you so much for having me. We're so glad to have you here. We are really passionate about

all of this. This is a dating show, but, you know, we've been doing that for eight years, and so we're branching out into, like, more lifestyle stuff. Yeah, the relationship you have with your skin and your hair. And how you present in the world. I mean, if you feel, you feel, feel good and the way you look, obviously you're going to, you know. Yeah, it translates to everything. Yeah, exactly. So we're glad to have you here today. Thank you.

It's an honor. I love this. So we want to just hear a little bit about you and your background. And obviously, you've been to school and higher education for this and everything. Have you always been really interested in skin, hair, all of that? You know, my first passion really is integrative medicine and taking a more holistic approach to health. And I didn't even know that I wanted to be a physician. It wasn't until I was in college where I was really interested in nutrition.

and I was really seeing like other approaches to health. There was an integrative doctor, Dr. Andrew Weil, who's based out of the University of Arizona. And I really liked his approach to health. He was a family medicine doctor, I believe, or primary care doctor, who then specialized in integrated medicine. So I'm like, you know what? I'm going to either do that or go to naturopathic medical school. And I decided to go to conventional medical school because I was like, if I have an MD,

I could probably do anything and I would have that credibility. So my plan was just to do primary care. But when I was in my third year of med school, I did an internal medicine. rotation in a subspecialty called rheumatology, which looks at autoimmune diseases. And there is so much overlap with autoimmune and skin issues. And there were patients like with lupus who had all these skin issues and something called scleroderma where your immune system attacks your collagen and like your skin gets super like taught and you can't even like move your limbs in severe cases. And I just had so much empathy for these patients. And I was like, maybe I am interested in

derm. I also loved like other aspects of derm. I do appreciate looking good and all the fun cosmetic aspects, but I was really drawn to the medical aspect of Derm. So I was like, well, shit. Like, it's so competitive. Like, I've already late to the game. Well, I barely got in by the skin of my teeth and very lucky. And so that's how I got into Derm. But what's also really cool about Derm is not only does it cover so much of medicine, like you could see adults and pediatric populations, it's surgical, it's cosmetic. It's like complex medical stuff, like infectious diseases. It also really can involve like an integrative or holistic approach. I think your skin can tell so much about what's going on internally. And I think that there's so much that you can do

lifestyle-wise and just health-wise in general that will affect your skin. And so it was a perfect field for me. And I've been in private practice for 12 years now. I graduated in med school, I don't know, like almost 20 years ago. And yeah, it's been a journey, but it's been amazing. And I do everything like the cosmetic, I do the injections, but I also do a lot of medical. Okay. Yeah, I love that. And I think sometimes back to my 20s and I had so many more skin issues, like eczema here and there and stuff I couldn't get under control. And I was so much less healthy. I drank so much. I wasn't eating as well. I don't have any of one thing. This is like a total different thing. We'll talk after. But I don't have any of those problems anymore at all. And you can age out, of course, of certain things. But it really was when I

really reflect, I just had so many things, quote unquote, wrong with me. And it was just probably my health. Yeah. I think that plays a huge role. And you could also age out of things. too. But I think everyone has a skin issue or question at some point in their life. Totally. Yeah. My gosh. You make so much content. It's really fantastic and digestible. And I think there's just so much noise out there. Oh my gosh. Like if you go on TikTok for 30 seconds, I mean, you're thrown so many products for your hair and your skin. And it's just like I could buy 15 different things. I mean, know if that's enough and how much do I do? And it's really important to take advice from somebody

like you with an actual medical degree. Yeah. So we want to do that today. We have so many questions for you. We're going to try to get through them all, but really condensing this down. It's even overwhelming for me, and I feel like I know better. I am 43. I have a lot of information. I know it works for me. And I still am like, do I need that? Should I be getting that treatment? Oh, my gosh. Same. And I'm a dermatologist. Yes, right. Yeah. So let's start with the lifestyle. All the things happening in your life. I mean, everything from your nervous system lifestyle, the way you live your life, your gut health. I mean, wherever you want to start the connections between that and your exterior appearance. Well, when it comes to just overall skin health and also, you know, acne is really common.

Hair loss is another popular topic. So these also apply to that as well. But nutrition really plays a big role. You talked about alcohol earlier. We do have studies to show that alcohol does accelerate aging. It just increases inflammation in the body, which then like has signals to like break down collagen faster. Yeah. It's just another stressor on the body, you know, on your liver and, yeah, other organs. So that's one thing. But in terms of, you know, foods. Sugar is another food group, unfortunately, that will place a huge aspect with all aspects of health. But we do know that it can break down collagen faster. And then also increase sugar, you know, affects your metabolic health. So with that comes like insulin resistance,

diabetes, and that increases more inflammation in the body. That also accelerates aging too. And not everyone, but in some people, dairy can also affect skin health. more so in the realm of acne. It's been shown to make acne worse. Not everyone. And the other thing that's problematic, too, is that today we have so much less fiber in our diet. And that plays a huge role with all skin issues, a lot with acne. Yeah, we just need to like get rid of the buildup, you know? Just let it all out. We just got to poop more. So yeah, really incorporating more fruits and vegetables, like what our parents told us, like, a long time ago, like putting more antioxidants on our diet, putting more fiber in our diet. I think there's been so much focus on protein, which

is important, too, and I'm obsessed with the health. And I was listening to a podcast about the protein obsession. Yeah. And the problem is that we've lost a lot of the fiber and the carbohydrates. Like, you really do need it all for a balanced diet. You need it all. Yes, yes. So, yeah, people are like, what's the best diet? And yeah, it's, I don't think doing extreme things, really are beneficial. The most studies that we do have is the Mediterranean diet, which is a very well-balanced diet, you know, with like your vegetables and like your healthy fats and protein. Yeah. A lot of grilled proteins, things like that and a lot of fried food. Yeah, my favorite. Yeah, I think that healthy fats and things, just eggs, avocado, nuts, like, flaksy,

all those things. Like, I mean, I've done a ton of research and I've incorporated it in my own life in terms of hair and skin. And so do you have even just superfoods that you recommend? or you like to recommend to patients? I know. It's hard because there are so many great things, but I just say, like, when it comes to, like, fruits and veggies, like, really try to incorporate the colors of the rainbow. Like, we love red foods, like, darkly pigmented foods, blueberries, blackberries, bell peppers, you know, things with a lot of vitamin C. I never put that on top.

It's the one food she doesn't like. Oh, my gosh. I know. It's like random that I just said bell peppers. There's so many, like, other amazing foods, too. No, it's very fun. It's my trigger food. Oh, that's so funny.

But like kale, things like that. Yeah, yeah. Like if it has a nice color to it, and even like, you know, it doesn't even have to have nice color like potatoes. Right. So, yeah, but just really incorporating the whole spectrum of colors and really having more fiber. Okay, more fiber. Don't avoid stuff. Do you ever, I know you're a dermatologist, not a psychiatrist, but do you focus on like nervous system regulation?

Yes. Okay. So, yeah, nutrition is one topic. Stress is huge. And I feel like we've just accepted to be like part of our. normal lives. And I think that's playing a huge role with accelerated aging, more acne, more hair loss. Like that's how I manifest hair loss is with stress. I was like my scalp was showing when I was in residency. I was just like stressed out. I was not sleeping. Sleep is another thing too. But

stress definitely increases your cortisol increases other inflammatory signals that will accelerate aging and make you look older than you want to be. And so yeah, we're seeing that more. and I think that it's weird. Like even though we have more technology that it's supposed to make our lives easier, I find that it's like sometimes doing the opposite. Like we're just inundated with our phones and everything. So I think that's playing a big role.

And with that, also I think our sleep is getting affected too. Like if you're on your screens late at night when your circadian rhythm is off, we're seeing so many more studies too, like how that's increasing inflammatory issues. We see more psoriasis, more acne, more eczema. when people have poor sleep, accelerated aging. We have studies to show that.

And yeah, we're just getting stressed out at the same time by our phones. I like the holistic approach, though. It's like, of course, you can prescribe all these different things and surgeries and XYZ. But like sleep well, eat a salad, try to reduce your stress, drink a little less. Yeah. You've got to pick one because you can't be stressed, not sleep, eat poorly, not stay hydrated. Like, if you have a stressful job, that might just.

be what it is. You've got to get the sleep. You've got to figure out how to combat them all because you can't have them all. You're going to fall apart. Exactly. Exactly. The sleep to me, I've used to not need as much sleep. I have a different face when I wake up and I didn't sleep well. Who is she? Like to the point where Ashley just just got her in a lot of sleep. No, I just all these things. But it's when I wake up and I had to get an early flight or whatever. I'm like, whose face is that? As opposed to waking up well rest. I swear, I age 10 years. Yep. And we have studies to, like, prove that it does that. Yeah. Obviously, alcohol. I mean, I have two drinks before bed. I wake up. I'm like, where'd her jawline go?

Yeah. No, for sure. It can increase swelling on top of like, yeah, all the internal inflammation that we can't see. And then just general about hormones, I mean, just aging and however much you want to kind of talk about how it affects these things as well. Yes. So hormones play a huge role with aging, with acne, with hair loss. And I think that the things that I mentioned, whether it's food, poor sleep, stress, those also affect our hormones too. And when your hormones are sort of out of whack, that's when things show up like acne or accelerated aging or hair loss. And with aging, our hormones naturally decline. And then when you hit menopause, that's like your estrogen really plummet, so unfortunately. And we really like estrogen for healthy skin. Estrogen increases hydration in the skin. It actually increases the thickness in your skin. It

helps with increasing collagen in your skin. And our estrogen does start to decline, you know, in our 30s, 40s, and then, yeah, it declines drastically in what we hit metapause. So that's what happens. And it's hard to avoid that. I think stress can make menopause maybe hit faster. Yeah. And there's all these like longevity protocols and things coming out now that can potentially delay menopause, so something to look into. But there's that aspect. And then there's also just these, I know this is kind of a loaded topic, but like endocrine disrupting chemicals out there, like all the microplastics that were exposed to just from like, I don't know, when I was like in residency, I would just order takeout and it'd be like a hot soup in this plastic container.

And I would eat that all the time and I would heat up food in like plastic containers. Yeah. We didn't know better back then. Yeah. I mean, you might have a pure doctor, but No, I had no idea. I didn't know back that. Oh, just a hot water bottle sitting in your car. You drink out of it. I never thought about it. Like the water bottles get hot in the summer and then they get cool in the winter and you drink them.

Yeah. They baked all summer. Yeah. That was like a little earlier days. I was like, oh, I also got a skincare routine a few years ago. Well, and we want to have a doctor on to talk about perimenopause and different things like that. But you don't have to answer this if you don't want to. But in terms of like, are you seeing people come to you that are doing hormone replacement therapy and seeing the benefits in their skin and hair?

Yes. Okay. I figured as much. Yeah. It is very beneficial. And that's like a different episode. Yeah, yeah. And there's also like topical estrogen too, which is a little bit of a controversial topic among germs.

Because some people are concerned that you can have that systemic effect and that, you know, germs should not be recommending topical estrogen. It's a mixed camp. I am on team topical estrogen. I do think that there are benefits from it. And I do think the absorption is very minimal. I do think we probably need some more studies before we like recommend it. What is that? I'd never heard of this.

Had you? No. Actually, it's interesting when people go through perimenopause, one of the first prescriptions that they may get is vaginal estrogen cream just to help, because there is some systemic absorption. But some people were like using it on their face and noticing improvement, like in the fine lines around their eyes, like, like, creepy skin. And so now it's not a prescription that's made for the skin, but like, yeah, officially.

But there are compounding pharmacies that are putting it in like a nice, like, skin cream. or what we call a vehicle that makes it more conducive to facial skin. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. I'm doing like tallow on my face. What, don't do that? Yeah, not a big fan.

Okay. Not a big fan. I think it's like an okay moisturizer. So like if you're not getting issues from it, that's okay. Okay. But there are better moisturizers out there. I've used a ton. My skin is so dry.

I like. Especially here. Yeah, yeah. I feel like I still even. even feel it in the morning. I don't, you know, I've, I mean, I used Charlotte Tilbury's magic cream for years. I feel like that was one of the better ones. I'll use Willetta's skin food, which I feel like is a thick moisturizer. But I just got served like an ad. It's this honey tallow is just, it feels good. But I probably, like, it probably feels good. I mean, but there's like some

other amazing moisturizers and then also like literal Vaseline. Like if you are having a lot of really dry skin, using hydrating serums with a good moisturizer or even what we call slugging, which is a trend I will stand behind, where you put like a layer of Vaseline or aquifer on your face if you are not acne prone. I will never get a pimple. I'm telling you. I can do that. So I will do it.

And that's also one of my other beefs with beef tallow, actually. It can be comedogenic, like meaning that it can clog your pores. So, yeah. The thicker the better. Yeah. So, but yeah, I would look into like slugging and. Okay. Slagin. Okay. And that's aqua four to the face. Aquifer to the face. Like on top of like a hydrating serum, like a good, yeah, high thoracic acid serum or something. But yeah. And then like, like, just, yeah, my other issue with beef tallow is like there are some where it can be kind of rancid, like if it's not properly preserved and stuff. So, so I would just be careful. And like I said, it's like an okay moisturizer. I'm not going to tell people to stop using it. They love it and they don't get any issues with it. But there are better things out there. Okay. I mean, in this episode, we are going to go through like skincare.

obviously like what you should do day to day. But can we start with hair? Because we've never focused on this in the episode. And Ashley and I have really different hair journeys. But like for me, especially in high school and college, I had like such disordered eating issues. My hair just broke constantly. And on top of that, I've just straightened my hair my whole life. And it's thinned like crazy as I've gotten older. And of course it makes you feel a certain way about yourself and made me feel less confident. And I have hair extensions now. But like, I think so many women are just like, I don't know what to do here. now. Yeah. And my story is I had like great hair. People just thought I had extensions in for years. And of course, I was aging a little bit. But when I got off the pill, it changed. And my life changed for the better in every other way. So that was the only thing I really lost. And I did notice a difference. And I've done a ton of research on this, the pill that I was on. It was probably the estrogen, I'm assuming. And it was a lot. It was a rapid loss. And like I went to a dermatologist and diagnosed my

myself with telogen effluibium and it stopped shedding to such an extreme, but it never really got back to like the place it used to be, but I feel really good. And I actually feel like it's growing fine. I actually don't want even like to use gross serums because I don't like the shedding phase. I really don't want to be on monoxide or any sort of gross serum. It just breaks. So like breakage is more of my issue. Look, I can feel it's coming out of every follicle, but I'm having trouble with Breakage. So anyway, I mean, your hair has been growing. Mine doesn't grow, like, at all. Oh, yeah, it's growing and I can see new growth, but especially around my face, the breakage is like my main issue now. So maybe we can talk to you about thinning hair, breakage. And like you have such a great, I want to direct people to your Instagram. Also, you have five, I think five different posts recently. Recently, I did a whole series. Yes, about what to do. But let's talk about supplements, oils, lifestyle, everything. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I feel like I'm huge on that. I never conditioned my scalp for. For years. Scalp hair is huge. I was like taught not to like shampoo the top, condition the ends.

Yeah, which is still mostly the case. Some conditioners aren't actually made for the scalp. But I do need to like condition my hair like up here. Yeah, yeah, man. So hair loss is a huge topic. And there are so many different factors that are playing a role. Yeah. You know, as we get older, yes, like we mentioned like hormones can steadily decline.

And hormones play a role with hair loss too. When there is like an imbalance with the ratio between your estrogen and your androgens, which include testosterone, that can accelerate. hair loss. And birth control, so many women are or have been on birth control. And I do think that that plays a big role with hair too. Any kind of hormonal shifts can cause hair loss. And not saying that you shouldn't be on birth control, but it is like almost like a form of hormone replacement. It's literal hormones. So when like people who go on or off birth control, either one will see hair loss because your body has just different signaling. It's trying to like deal with these

hormonal shifts, any kind of hormonal shift, like postpartum, we see massive shedding. And that's right. Because we have a huge plummet in hormones when we give birth. And you mentioned T-Logidof-Flubium, which is shedding that we see. And it's about three to five months after some kind of stressor or like triggering event. So giving birth is a huge stressor to the body, whether you deal with pain or if you have surgery. And so that also contributes to the postpartum hair loss. But having an illness. So we saw a ton of hair loss during the height of COVID. But like anyone who's really, really ill, or if you are stressed, if you have a death in the family, you go through a really bad breakup, it sends a stress signal to your hair follicles like, hey, we're going to like reallocate our resources to areas that need it more because like the stress is like depleting our body. So let's just take away some of the resources to your hair follicles and like go elsewhere. So then the hair follicles go into what's called the resting phase. And that lasts about three to five months. That's why it takes about three to five months.

after that stressful event to notice the shedding. It's so crazy, and it was like exactly the timing of how this all happened. Okay, yeah, yeah. And you can have what's called chronic telogenofluvium where the hair loss doesn't stop. If there are other underlying factors at play, whether you're genetically predisposed. Like, if you have a strong family history of hair loss, my dad was bald at 19. So, like, that's how I manifest stress is with hair loss. So having telogenophluvium can unmask underlying antigenetic alopecia.

if you are deficient in certain nutrients, low iron, low vitamin D, sometimes zinc, sometimes low B12, those can perpetuate that hair loss and like brittleness. And I think thyroid issues are very common amongst women. I will always test for thyroid, like along with iron and vitamin D. Also, medications play a huge role. And then so birth control, but another big one we're seeing is the GLP1. Yeah. Group of medicine. My hairdresser said that she just said to clients.

are just losing their hair, like crazy. But also diet, like if you're not eating, right, exactly. Nutrients. For sure. Like, protein's huge when it comes to hair. And when you have, like, this huge drastic drop in calorie intake that can affect hair. But we're also seeing that the medication itself is like hair loss inducing.

So people who like are even not just on a low dose or like aren't having that drastic weight loss that people used to have like a couple years ago whenever it first came out, even without the drastic weight loss, people who are still on it or who have plateaued will still experience hair loss from that. So that's just another thing to think about. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And just like scalp care too. So like if you are not washing your hair regularly, because this is what I see a lot. Okay. People are noticing hair shutting and it like freaks them out so they don't wash their hair in the shower. And then they'll go like a week without washing their hair. And then when they wash the hair, they see clumps of hair coming out because they hadn't washed their hair. And like that would have like come out in stages. Yeah. But it comes out in clumps. And that will accelerate hair loss because,

when you're not washing your hair as often, the oil builds up, and that actually can cause inflammation on the scalp. We all have like a microbiome on our scalp. A lot of yeast likes to live on our scalp, and that feeds on that oil. And then the byproduct of that yeast is scaling, which shows up as dandruff or sometimes itching. And so that's why when you see more dandruff, when you don't wash your hair as often, and not everyone. Like if you're more dry skin prone, you may not see that as much. But that's one of the biggest things I see in women when they notice hair loss, they've washed their hair less often. You should be doing the opposite. I'm so glad you said that because it stressed me out so much to lose all that hair in the shower,

and I thought I'll just wash it less. And it was like coming out. I mean, it would just be all over. I would like when you feel it like drip down your body. No, it's like, I would call rain and like crying when I was going through this like two, three month period of like how much I was losing in the shower. Yeah. But I luckily was like the answer is not to go a week because of your scalp health. So it's just tough.

I mean, I want to validate it. So in terms of washing it, how often do you recommend it? I mean, I have a friend that's like she double cleanses, she'll wash it twice and then do a conditioner. Like, I guess also everybody is different. But like, what do you recommend? Yes, I know. It's tough. Everyone's different.

I would say on average two to three times a week if you can. Some people need to wash their hair every day. If you have more like quaily or textured hair, I would say once a week is fine. Okay. But yeah. Is there shampoos and conditioners you like for different things? Yeah. In terms of hair loss, it's so funny, people are like, what shampoo should I use for hair loss?

Because they think that shampoo is what's going to help. their hair loss, when really it's going to be topical treatments, topical growth serums, and oral medicines that are going to be better for your hair loss, not a magical shampoo. However, if you were to use a shampoo for hair loss, I am a really big fan of shampoes that treat dandruff, even if you don't have dandruff. So one of my favorite ones over the counter is nizerol shampoo, which is an anti-ease shampoo, it has ketoccal. You just get on Amazon, it's a blue bottle.

Yeah, it's like so unsexy. Yes, yeah. Okay. But not only because it's like anti-eatose shampoo, it has it. it's like anti-inflammatory and like anti-yeast so you don't have that inflammation. But also interestingly, it can work on like hormone receptors on the scalp that can help with hair growth. So we like it for that. And then like, but not every shampoo, right? Not every shampoo. You're going to do that every three or four shampoos. Well, you can still probably get away with doing it two or three times a week.

Okay. But it depends on if you have dry scalp. Then yeah, maybe once a week is fine. That's what I was doing. What I tell people is just to like massage it in your scalp. Like don't wash your hair with it because it can make your hair like straw. just wash your scalp with it and then use your normal shampoo and conditioner. Okay. You know, and then leave it in your scalp for a few minutes before we're taking it out. I'm also a fan of like zinc-based anti-dangerous shampoos. Like, Serri makes a nice one, head and shoulders, you know, like zinc has also been shown to help with hair growth. Caffeine in shampoos, it's not a nicer old or the antedandrous shampoos, but caffeine's another ingredient that I like in shampoos or in like topical serums.

In terms of what works the best, though, it's like the prescriptions as well as like topical. monoxidil for hair growth. So non-monoxidil OTC products I like because minoxidil, I think, works the best, but it's just so annoying because you do have that shedding phase. And you take it for life, right? You can't stop. Yeah. I mean, if you stop it, you're not going to be worse off. You're just going to be back to square one. But aren't you going to lose the hair you grew on it for the most part? If you stop it, stop it. Probably. I mean, it feels like a lifetime commitment. But so is brushing your teeth. I don't know. Yeah. I see people talk about this where they're

like, like, tinks is like I'm on this. for the rest of my life. Well, I'm on blood pressure medication for the rest of my life. Yeah. If you take a pill every day. Yeah, unless the underlying issue for your hair loss is addressed. Like, unless like your iron deficiency is corrected or your thyroid's corrected or your stress is corrected, you know? But yeah, unfortunately, it's one of those things that you're just on chronically. Or unless, until the point you stop caring. But I want to address that shedding phase because, again, like it took me a while to kind of realize, like, growth is not my issue. Like, I'm seeing the growth. I don't have any patches. or anything like that.

So I started a gross serum and I shedded so much hair and that sounds really scary to a lot of people but it can be worth it if you really should be out. Like again, I think Tinks is one of the influencers

I feel like it talks about monoxide the most and it is worth it to get through it to the other side but that wasn't, my issue was more breakage based in hair health. So they work

but they're pushing out the, is it essentially just pushing out the hair so you can grow new hair. It's trying to put everything in the same growth phase so like some of the older hair has to grow up first. And it takes like six to nine months for it to work. Some people,

like, some people maybe three months. But that's so discouraging. People are like, what? I want my hair now. So that's the thing. Hair growth is such a slow process. Yeah. But that does work. In terms of other products over the counter that I like. So I mentioned caffeine is a good ingredient. There's a lot of like peptides that can also signal for hair health. Like so if you have breakage too, in addition to hair growth that I think are good. Like the ordinary makes a super affordable one. I can't even remember. It's like their hair density. peptide serum, it's something along those lines, but it has caffeine, has amazing peptides. So I really do like that one. Obaji has a really good one, their new sill, hair growth scalp serum.

That one's really good for scalp health, which will also help with like brittle hair, hair like density, like the thickness of the hair strands. Love that one. And one of my colleagues, she's a derm, Dr. Joyce Park. She started a hair care line called Carative. And she has his growth serum that's wonderful. That also has wonderful peptides and other antioxidants. So definitely a fan of those. Do you feel anything about rosemary oils? I feel like I get served this piece constantly. Oh my gosh. And hair oiling in general, that's the whole thing. Yes. And I want to clarify between growth serums because they're completely different. Like we're just asking about the oils that you just are getting on Amazon that oil oil your scalp. One of our friends, whereas by Berber hair oil,

she's like, it changed my whole life. Honestly, I do like that one. Yeah, she loves it. It's like changed her life. Rosemary oil is interesting because it's mouth. So I don't know if I could, like, commit to that. Okay, I do want to ask you about this. Hair oil, Berber hair oil is not a gross ceremony. It's just more of, like, moisturizing the scalp. Is that the point? Yes, I think that's more like that.

I know. So hair oil can be confusing. And then we can talk about rosemary oil, too, as part of that because there's so many different oils. There's like rosemary oil. There's pumpkin seed oil. Right. There's like peppermint oil.

There's like argon oil. So there's some that can potentially stimulate your scalp to promote hair growth. And there are some that are actually just nourishing to the hair strands. So it can be confusing for people. I think hair oiling can mean a lot of different things. When it comes to rosemary oil specifically, I think that it can help with hair growth. It's not the most amazing thing for hair growth. So I don't want people to think, oh, I need to reach for rosemary oil before like monocidal.

But I think it's a great supportive ingredient. Like if it's in your shampoo or if it's one of the many ingredients in a hair growth serum, wonderful. But I wouldn't like go run for rosemary oil itself unless you're like already doing all the other things. To your point, though, it does take a long time. Nutrafol has been a long time of ours and, you know, we always say six to nine months. It does take a long time. But I do like nourishing hair oils if you are dealing with breakage. If you're dealing with like, yeah, let's talk about that. Like just the process. I mean, you want to do it before you shampoo and like. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. For most of them because like otherwise you'll just like be a greasy hot mess.

There are some where you can do post like wash. But yeah, most of them you want to do. If you could leave it in your hair longer, like overnight, that would be more ideal. Okay. But that could be messy. But you have to maybe wear like a bonnet or like a shower cap or something, which also can be annoying. So like a nourishing oil that you leave on overnight, like helps with overall. Is that going to help with your scalp care, your breakage, all of it?

So it depends on the oil because there's some oils that are nourishing to the scalp. And there's some that you just want to put in the hair itself. So you just have to look at the oil. I like the berber hair oil. And that's like a nice scalp nourishing oil. She switched her friend's entire hair. I mean, it's crazy. I can't believe what it's done for her. Yeah. I switched to silk pillowcases and it was a game changer. Yes. I feel like I was waking up and my hair looked so frizzy and I feel like I was having breakage happen in my sleep. And I think that's been huge.

I'm a fan of silk pillowcases and silk bonnets. Yeah. Okay. And I know we're talking about all this. I think oral prescription meds work the best. Okay. Like oral spronolotone for premenopausal woman, oral finasteride or dutasteride for men or postmenopor. Pazil woman and then oral monoxidol. Well, I was just going to ask you because I think like monocidil is topical and now, I mean, you can get it on like hers. Like they, it's easy to take. And it's pure. It's pure. Like it's, it's, it's real gain, right? Like minoxyl is the main ingredient. Yeah. Well, it originally came out as a pill back in the 70s for blood pressure. And like they were noticing people were like getting hair growth. Their hair was growing, but they were also getting like hair everywhere like a chia pet, but like facial hair. And so the founders of Rogan were like,

let's take advantage of the side effect. And that's when they make the topical version. Anyways, So the low-dose pill is now being used more often, more so in the last like five years or so. And it does work. About 15 to 20 percent of people can get facial hair. So that's like the main downside of it. There are a few potential other side effects, but it does work. And I will prescribe that. If people want to be aggressive, I will do that either with spronolactone or with fanasteride.

What is the first one you said for women? Spronylactone, which is what's used most commonly for hormonal acne for adult female acne. You get a little tinkle for your face. You can take that hair on. That's good. Yeah. Honestly, it's easier to get rid of hair than it is to grow hair. Yeah, exactly.

And people get all triggered up, but monocidil is toxic to cats. If you guys. Yeah, and dogs. And dogs too. Yeah. The topical. What if they like lick your face? It's really, like, if you spill the bottle or something.

Oh, okay. So if you see comment sections on monocidal, toxic to cats and dogs. So people get all triggered up. So if you have cats and dogs, I would do the oral. Yeah, I do the oral. I think you hear a lot of people say, and Rain has said this before, too. Like, my hair just doesn't grow anymore. Like, I have another really close friend.

that just she never had really long thick hair, but it doesn't grow anymore. And I'm not, I don't want to speak for you. But I feel like you have like said that it doesn't grow like it used to. And like it just does. It's never has. And I mean, it was definitely like disordered eating related when I was younger. But now that I'm an adult and I eat like a normal amount, it's just it just doesn't grow. And is that, I mean, I guess it can be a number of reasons you'd have to do a deep dive in that person's lifestyle. Yes. Like someone like that, it's probably a monocidil would be their best bed, along with all the other things that you can change. Yeah, you want to do what's called extend the growth phase of your hair cycle. There's different cycles like the resting growth shedding.

So you want to extend the antigen phase, which is the hair growth phase. And people whose hair doesn't grow that long, they have a shorter antigen phase. Like when you see like those like women with hair down to their feet, like, okay, how's that possible? They have really long antigen phases. So monoxidil is one of the ways to prolong that antigen phase. But also it can be related to like brittle hair, like hair care practices, like if you're using heating tools extensively and not protecting your hair, you know, whenever somebody comes in, I always look at your blood panel, your iron levels, your vitamin D, like, and the other ones I mentioned. So making sure all that's in check, making sure your thyroid's in check. But yeah, but topical or oral monotidol. And when you turn 40,

I mean, I got a full blood panel of everything. I checked my thyroid. I checked everything. To just kind of see like what I needed hormonally. And I really recommend that people do that. It was scary. I went to a gynecologist. She just was like, that you're 40, now that you're 40, but like, I was so glad I did because we were able to, like, really address certain things. Yeah. My mom has issues with their thyroid. So to, like, anticipate that, it was really important to me. For sure. Yeah. And that's the, I forget the word is, like, it won't grow past a certain length, to your point. You know, like, people, like, this is the length that won't grow past. And I'm glad you described the antigen phase,

but also the hot tools. Like, if you are blow drying your hair at a high heat and you're not protecting it and then you're styling it with, like, when I was touring, I noticed where I'm a breakage because I was curling my hair with the curling iron every time I went on stage. Like, those things matter as much as you can take breaks. If you can take breaks, yeah. And then doing things to stimulate your scalp. I'm a fan of red light as well. Those red light.

The I restore helmets that are expensive. They've been a partner to the show. Yeah. And yeah, red light on your scalp. But you recommend, I mean, it works. I do. Yeah. I mean, I think it's one of those things where it shouldn't be your go-to.

Like the other things we talked about, I think it would be more effective. But it's definitely supportive and we have good evidence to support it. Okay. Okay. All right. Okay. Okay. We're just going to take a quick break.

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This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Well, I recommend people go to your social media, the whole series about hair, but let's be found to skincare. Because Ashley and I feel like there's just so much information out there. And like, so many people are like, use this 12-step skincare program. And I think, you know, before we get into recommendations, it's like, what do people actually need and what do they need in their 20s, 30s, 40s? You know, that probably changes whether you've children or not. But what do you say to people? What do we need to focus on? Yeah. So just

foundationally for anyone, even for the tweens out there, is a good cleanser, a moisturizer, and sunscreen. If you're not doing those three things, then like don't even think about the other products because those are the foundational steps. Some people hate sunscreen. sunscreen is so important for multiple reasons. But if you're going to invest in your skin care, it's kind of pointless if you're not going to be using sunscreen. It's like one step forward, one step back. So you want to definitely incorporate sunscreen. And then like washing your face, it seems like such an obvious step.

But it is kind of an underrated step. Throughout the day we're building up oil, debris, dirt, makeup, all that. We want to wash it off because those are stressors on our skin cells and we'll accelerate aging. So, yeah, doing all those things. But then once you're in your 20s, I do recommend definitely incorporating a retinoid into your brain. routine. So retinoids are the kind of umbrella term for those vitamin A topical products that include over the counter, which is retinol and retinol, a retinol to hide. And then prescription-wise, we have Tretanoin, which is also known as retinae. There's a stronger one called Tazerac or Tazeratine.

And we have the most evidence when it comes to like anti-aging, like decreasing fine lines and wrinkles, evening out your skin tone skin texture with Tretanoin. Like we have so many studies because it helps remodel your collagen. That's how it helps. minimize spine lines and wrinkles. It increases your skin cell turnover. That's how it helps with acne by like unclogging your pores. It evens out your skin tone. So we like tritone or retinol. So incorporating that, I would say your 20s is a good time to start that. Okay. And then I would say starting in your mid to late 20s to your 30s, definitely incorporating some kind of antioxidant serum in the morning. The most studied one is vitamin C. Okay. That was kind of question is vitamin C. And you think start

with retinol first, then vitamin C to incorporate it. Yeah. Or do both. You know, even so. And retinol at night a few times a week? Do you build up to every night? Do you recommend? Yeah, the goal is to get to five to seven nights a week. Some people may only be able to do two to three nights a week, but find one that where you can get up to five to seven nights per week. What do you recommend percentage-wise of the retinal?

I know. Some products don't even label the percentage. Okay. And also, if it's encapsulated retinol, you can potentially tolerate a higher percentage. You mean orally? Topically. Like, it's encapsulated so it doesn't all get released on. the skin and cause irritation. It's like a delayed release, but, you know, there's like 0.05

to 0.1%. Yeah, we have a 0.1. Like my point lower one than you. Yeah, I use the higher one. It's something with a big Z on it. Oh, Z. O Z. Yes. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, that's a great one. Dr. Berrett has Obaji and Zio. Yeah. So point one, like four times a week probably. Oh, you did that much? I mean, yeah. Yeah, if you can tolerate it, then, yeah. I had to stop putting it on my skin. At the beginning of the summer, I had just, I was moving and I was also in the sun a lot. And I just, like, didn't think about the stress in the sun. And all of a sudden my skin was so irritated, bright red and shedding like crazy. And our friend, her name's Brenna, she's married to Andrew Collin, who's been on the show very much. She was like, get off the retinal for a few weeks and see if that helped. And now I can go back to it. But I had to pause it because it was really. But the retinal makes you more sensitive to sun. Yeah, especially if you're starting out with it. But if you're going through stress, if you're, you're, you're, changing climates if you're in a different environment, that can affect your skin barrier too. And then that will make you more susceptible to irritation and all that, even if you were using the retinol for prolonged periods of time. Well, let's talk about skin barrier because she said like, you're really,

you're like, I was on, my skin was on fire. Yeah, yeah. Moving from like L.A. to New York, summertime, all this. So let's talk about your skin barrier. Yeah, making sure that you're preserving your skin barrier is important. That's, that comes with the foundational skincare routine. Like using a moisturizer, everyone benefits from a moisturizer, even people with oily skin, just because we are affected by the elements that we're surrounded by. So definitely using a moisturizer. When you're starting off, if you're noticing like the redness or irritation, definitely cut back on any actives that you're using.

So actives will include things like retinoids, vitamin C, any exfoliating products too, which that would be the next thing I would incorporate in your routine. Yeah, I want to ask you about exfoliating. But put a pause on all that for a minimum of a week, I mean, or two weeks, and just use a moisturizer or a gentle cleanser. and sunscreen, of course. But it happens. Like stress can do it.

Lack of sleep makes you lose more water in your skin. Change in climates. Yeah, if you're going to be out in the sun, that can affect your skin barriers. Yeah. So at night, we're cleansing. Obviously, how often to exfoliate do you like an oil cleanser? Like, how are you feelings on cleansers? So cleansers, I am a really big fan of double cleansing.

Okay. So using an oil-based cleanser first, whether it's a literal liquid oil or a balm, one of those. And then following that with like a real feeling that. regular cream or gel cleanser, depending on your skin type, gel cleansers if you have like more combo or oily skin, although there are some hydrating gel cleansers too, so I don't know if I should even say that, but cream cleansers are more so made for like people with dry skin. Then I would follow that with a retinoid and then a moisturizer. Now, in terms of exfoliating, there's so many different types of exfoliating products out there.

There's exfoliating cleansers, there's exfoliating serums or toners, and they can range in such a wide spectrum in terms of strength, like super gentle exfolience. And there's also different types of exfoliants like glycolic acid, like glycolic acids, like glycolic acid, lactic acid, mandelic acid. There's beta hydroxy acid, which is salicylic acid. There's polyhydroxy acids, which are super hydrating, gentle exfoliance. So it depends on what you're using. Like, you can potentially use a polyhydroxy acid exfoliating serum every day with a retinoid. But like a 10% or higher glycolic acid, you probably want to use that a couple times a week, not the same night as a retinoid. for most people.

Okay, so alternate those. So alternate those. Like if you're using a stronger exfoliating glycolic acid serum, ideally not the same night as your retinoid. Some people may be able to tolerate it. I hate saying you can use it on the same night because I feel like, just don't. Like do your toilet the two nights and then do this.

Yeah. I mean, we grew up on St. Ives. I know, right? And like Nogsima. Yeah. Like the way we just fucking. You put it on your face?

Oh my gosh. I put like C-Breeze. Oh, I don't know. St. Ives made it for your face. Scrub for the face. Yeah. Yeah. Like.

Are there face washes that you like a lot? Are there brands that you really like? Yeah. I mean, and when it comes to splurging versus saving money on skincare, you do not need to splurge on cleansers, moisturizers, moisturizers or sunscreen. So cleansers, I love like servy cleanser. Cetophyll, La Roche Pose. They make wonderful gentle cleansers. Vanny cream, which is like such an unsexy skincare brand.

I like that you're saying. I've brought up budget because I think some people are like, can I do the drugstore brands? Yeah, for sure. Some stuff is just too expensive. Some stuff is so annoyingly expensive. I mean, yeah, if you have the budget, sure, it's fun, but you don't have to splurge on those. When it comes to vitamin C, maybe you might want to have fun with that one. I do have a lot of, a lot of spendy fun with that one. Yeah, yeah. I only wash at night. Do you say, like, wash your face at night on the morning? I want to know, too, because I don't wash it. Yeah, I would say if you can wash your face at night at a minimum, fine. That's great. Many people don't need a face wash in the morning. too. I think it still helps to cleanse with water. I do water. Yeah. Yeah. If you're wearing like a lot of heavy product overnight, it does help to make sure that it's off. If you're like acne prone or something or if you're prone to more oily skin, then yeah, using a head of the cleanser in the morning is fine. But yeah. Okay. Just at night at least. So while we're here on sunscreen,

wake up if you wash or you don't, whatever you do. Are you recommending to put that right on your bare skin? And then our other question is makeup too. Just makeup has an SPF 30, 35. I mean, just walk this through your feelings on sunscreen. Yeah, you can. If that's the only step in your morning routine, you can totally put it on bare skin. I recommend using an antioxidant, like a vitamin C serum first. First.

Okay. And then if you have dry skin, like putting on a moisturizer or some kind of hydrating serum and then your sunscreen, a lot of sunscreens can be moisturizing too. So you could do like a combo moisturizing sunscreen. And then your makeup goes on after that. I am not a fan of relying on SPF in your makeup because you have to put like a shit ton on for it to work. I see. Okay. And it's, you just look so cakey. So, um, and people don't put on enough. So I would definitely put on a regular sunscreen. Okay. Okay. So I think people get really overwhelmed with the layering of it all and for sure. All of that. But at nighttime, your cleanse. Retinoid.

Ritone. Rheasterizer. Morning cleanse or not, but you do your vitamin C serum, then your sunscreen. Yeah. Then maybe moisturizer or not, depending on your sunscreen. Yeah. Yeah. And then Moistiser before the sunscreen, yeah. I think that's really... Hold on. Moistraris before the sunscreen. Yeah, sunscreen's your last step in your skincare. Okay. And then makeup.

Yeah. If you're doing it all, vitamin C, moisturizer, sunscreen in the morning. In the morning. Because, I mean, I just developed a skincare routine a couple years ago. Good for you. I was just water only. And that's served me really well.

But now I'm getting older and I want to preserve my skin. Yeah. But that was the most intimidating thing for me was how many fucking products do I need and which at night, which in the morning? I know. And how much of each thing. I'm glad that you went through like the order of each time. Yes. So that's the foundational. I mean, there's so many other fun things out there.

There's like growth factors, peptides, like PDRN, exosomes. But I would start with like making sure you have a good vitamin C and a good retinoid. Okay. And that is where to splurge. I would say, yeah, yeah, for sure. Like vitamin C, yeah. There's some great like drugstore vitamin Cs and retinoids. Like, you know, V-She is one of my favorite drugstore vitamin C's.

Same with like serri. And then retinoids like rock ROC. They make a good retinoid ole, actually, Nutrigena. They make some nice retinoid serrivi. Okay. So, yeah, but there are some very nice ones that are more expensive. Well, which brands do you like for that? Vitamin C, I am a fan of the skin suiticles.

Every day, I know, what the hell. Good scuticles is great, yeah. It is. They just came out with a new formulation this year because, like, their patent ran out last year. But I feel like nobody is able to do one, even with, like, the similar ingredients, like, I haven't found a match. It's annoyingly expensive. But like I've treated patients for 16 years. And I've just seen patients skin transform with C. Perilic.

But there's some other great ones too. Like skin better science has a wonderful one. Revision. Skin care has their wonderful one, the C plus correcting complex. Okay. Yeah, there's some great ones. Is there stuff when you like look at the bottle? So for example, there's this one brand I get served a lot on TikTok.

I'm not going to throw them under the bus. But I sent it to her girlfriend in mine. I was like, how is this possible? This is so inexpensive. And it's claiming to be so great. And she was like, well, you need to look at the percentages of what's in it. So is there things you would say, like, read this on the bottle and this is how you know what's worth the money? I know it's tough.

When it comes to vitamin C, I do like, yeah, around 10 to 15 percent L-ascorbic acid. There's some great vitamin Cs that don't use L-scorbic acid. Another one is T.HD. Escorbate, which I like 15 to 20 percent. And a lot of brands may not even disclose that and still be fine. I think that you want to go with a brand who has good clinical studies. Not like TikTok shop. No name. Right. I know. Yeah, I know some no name things. It's hard. They may work. They may work. But it's just annoying if you're just going to experiment, like, go with something that has been tested that we know works if you don't want to waste your money. Yeah. I'm surprised you said that moisturizer, you don't really need to splurge. You don't. Of course, you know, there's some great moisturizers you can slurge on that have like lovely growth factors and peptides in them. But servi, Cetafel, La Roche Pose. Olae. Olae. Olae makes a wonderful.

wonderful anti-aging moisturizers with like peptides. They were generous. Great. So now. I'm going to get on that. Like Sarah B. Yeah. The Sarabi has a good peptide. Like their skin renewing night cream is fantastic. And then what are some of the more splurges moisturizers that you? I love the skin suiticles. They're agey interrupted. It just has some other ingredients like antioxidants and other ingredients to like help with collagen remodeling. I am also a fan of, maybe because because I'm using it right now, but like Lankome had this partnership with timeline, which uses this ingredient called mitopure anyways. Yeah, we talked about them. But yeah, so there's some,

there's some nice ones out there, but you don't have to splurge. Great. Great. I'm looking to spend less money on that. But Tretanoin is, that's your retinol and that is prescription. Yes. Well, so I know it's, the terminology is really confusing, but retinol is over the counter. Tritanoin is prescription and that's, well, the brand name is retinae for that. But yes, that's prescription. And that is going to be stronger than retinol and retinol because it works pretty quickly. Is there any reason why I shouldn't just be doing that? Yeah, you can totally do that. Some people, if their skin is on the drier side or on the sensitive side, may do better starting with a more gentle retinoid. That's like the high level. Yeah, but I think a lot of people.

The final boss of retinal. It's also a matter of like using it correctly too. You only need like a pea-sized amount for the whole face. It doesn't seem like a lot. And if you do have sensitive or dry skin. You could use a moisturizer first as almost like a buffer and then use the trinino on top of it. Okay. And chemical wise, I mean, even chemicals with sunscreen. I mean, some people will say use mineral sunscreen only, only zinc. Yeah, let's talk about as an ingredient. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, because also, by the way, we're talking about face today. You should use sunscreen everywhere. You should put these products obviously on your neck and your decalitay, right? You know, I think we want to talk about not just focus on the face and the rest of our body. But I try to do zinc sunscreen on my body.

and I will sometimes just do an oil that I know as a bunch of chemicals in it and I don't care. Like, I just don't like the way it feels. I don't either. Yeah. Like, I like these oils. Yeah. I mean, they feel nice. When people say, like, what's the best sunscreen?

It's really the one that you're willing to use regularly. Okay. And we do recommend, like, yeah, we do recommend a minimum of SPF 30. Yes. Which most sunscreens are broad spectrum. But, yeah, I know there's, like, a lot of noise about chemical sunscreens, like, potentially being bad for you and or not good I guess but it's a lot of people who's fearing chemical sunscreen it's because there's there were studies that were done where it was given in insanely high doses

like large doses to like animals whether it was marine life or rats and that then there were like some endocrine issues with that but it was like abnormally high levels that we would never be exposed to as humans so yeah I think people are just concerned by that so that so then they'll translate that to like, oh, just avoid chemical sunscreens all together and just stick with mineral sunscreens. Chemical sunscreens are nice, though, because they are more elegant. They're not going to be thick, white, pasty. Most skin tones can really do well with chemical sunscreens. The one issue that we do have as germs is that it can be irritating for some people, like people with rosacea or sensitive skin. Yeah. It's just the codali I bought in France. It's SPF 50. My skin glows.

Yeah, love it. It's not zinc. But I feel like I cannot wake up and slather my body in zinc every day. You don't have to. So I wanted to have this conversation. But I guess there's this part of me that's like I'm just really baking chemicals in my skin. But is that just me being like that's not really what's happening? Yeah, I mean, they are chemicals, but whether or not they're doing anything bad is we don't have evidence to show that it is.

Okay. I've put terrible stuff in my body my whole life. Yeah. I mean, I really, yeah, like if you're, yeah, drinking alcohol. The alcohol, but poison in my body. I mean, I'm just glad you said this. Whatever you're willing to do, you know, like I love vacation as a brand. I love the smell.

Yeah, they have fine sunscreens. Sometimes it's the easiest thing for me to do is to do the spray and get my chest and my arms before I go out the door. And yes, I guess it's healthier to slather on a bunch of zinc, but I'm not doing it. So it's like I think what you're willing to do. Yeah, it's what you're willing to do. Okay, thank you. Okay. No, I think there's like a million things that people are like, I'm going to tug on this lever and this lever and this lever and love something.

It's like, I'm just, I'm trying my best out of here. Just do your best. Yeah. Like, skin protection is better than not, no matter what. Right. Yeah, exactly. So just in terms of like marketing lingo in general and what you find really misleading, let's talk about it.

Like, I think so many things are claiming to be like clean and organic and is there certain language that you find triggering like, that's not true. Yeah, I know. Because as somebody who is like more holistically minded and really like looking at all the environmental factors that are playing a role, I do think the word, Clean can be very misleading, like all natural. Yeah. Because we don't even have a standard definition of what that means.

Clean can mean so many things. And I think it's mostly a marketing term. I appreciate the effort behind the brand for trying to promote something that may be healthier. But I just think it's misleading. So I don't know. I'm not a fan. I mean, I think you, if you really want to have organic skin care, you have to have a USDA organic seal of approval. Like, I mean, right?

Oh, yeah, with organic skincare. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you really want to have organic, it has to, it's hard to get an organic label. I used to work for an organic skincare company. I did their social. I remember all the ins and outs of how difficult it was to get that. So I think we all know with food, too, it is or it isn't. Natural coloring in food actually means we chemically produced this, right?

I guess it's open to interpretation, but it's like natural means doesn't mean anything. I think in general. Anyone can say it, I guess. Okay, so anybody can say it that doesn't actually mean what you think it means in terms of like, food and like what about like when people say medical grade and non-topsic. I know that's also another marketing term. Okay. I mean because medical grade can mean a bunch of things. It could mean like skincare that a dermatologist would sell in their office or like a physician would sell in their office. It's not a legal term. It's not something can be branded kosher and that's like a legal term.

Same with USA Organic. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not a legal term at all. Or it could also refer to skincare brands that have a lot of clinical studies. to back them up. But a lot of drugstore brands have a lot of clinical studies to back them up. Like the ones I mentioned, Serrivi, Nutri Gina, La Roche-Pose, Zetafil, like they have amazing clinical studies. So they're kind of medical grade. So, yeah, I think it's more just for like these professional offices that sell these products. Okay, good. Okay. We want to talk to you about little things you can do that don't cost as much money if it's guasha, ice roller. I mean, I think this is also the reason people go to like a face gym or, you know, do these facial massages.

You're like, I look so snatched. I mean, I want to just talk to you about, like, moving the face around in that way. And if it makes a difference or we're just playing ourselves. Yeah. Okay. So I think it's a little bit of both. I think it does make a difference. I think it's one of those things where it could be a little bit overhyped at the same time, too.

Like, I think that before you run to Guascha or face roller, which, by the way, I love and do those things. Yeah, I love my face roller. Oh, my God. I'm obsessed. Yeah. Yeah. I'm obsessed.

Yes. Yeah. It helps with like puffiness and all that. And it's stimulating. And it's stimulating. So I'm a fan of any kind of like massage on the face. Okay. But I would say before you like run to do those things, which are affordable and easy, I just want to make sure that you're also having good skincare routine because we have way more evidence to support that.

But yeah, anything that like promotes circulation in your skin, whether it is gloss jaw, whether it is just like massaging your face with your fingers or using a face roller, I think that you are helping bringing more nourishment to the skin. and you're helping, like, detoxifying, like, the things you don't want. So, you're moving the circulation around. You're moving the lymphatics system. So I am a fan of that. But, like I said, I wouldn't do that as your only thing. Not a place that. Sure.

In addition. And then red light. I'm a fan of red light, too, for the face. Yeah. I think that we could use a little bit more evidence for it. But I do think that it is very rejuvenating for skin cells. And overall, we'll make your skin cells work better and help with things. like fine lines and yeah, that glow.

Okay. And lastly, collagen. Yes. Yeah. I am on team collagen. I think that there are benefits to it. It's funny because there's still like a mixed opinion amongst germs. I think more derms are like promoting it or recommending it. But we have great studies, but most of them are industry backed.

So you have to kind of take them with a grain of salt. Like are they biased in some way? But I mean, I have seen it transform my patient's skin. I do. There's a lot of like good, I mean, for me, just anecdotes. Totally, I think that it is effective. And it's hard to ignore some of these studies, even if they are industry back, that it is helpful. Orally or topically? Orally. So topical collagen is a different situation. I think it's very hydrating. It doesn't translate to more collagen in your skin. It's a nice hydrating ingredient. It's so interesting. One of these TikTok brands was like, it's this collagen mask. And our girlfriend who's an politician was like, your skin can't absorb that much collagen. It's false marketing. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a large molecule. It doesn't like actually absorb.

Well, Dr. Barrett, who we mentioned, sells it, and I stand by it. Yeah. Orally. Yeah, the powder. And I put it in my coffee. And I, he said, you can put it in your coffee. And I believe him. Of course, I trust him with my life. But I wanted to, you know, research myself. Because I was like, how would it not break this down? And it allegedly doesn't. But you could, yeah. You can, do the heat. The heat, yeah, but I think it works. It's fine. It's like, so I just do, it's unflavored, and he designed it that way. So you could put it in water if you want, but it's just I do my scoop and my coffee in the morning. And, you know, I think there was these years of like, is it bullshit, is it not?

And I think everyone we trust has moved into this. It is beneficial. And it's not like snake oil. Yeah, I think it's beneficial. I think if people are like, which one should I do? There's one that I do appreciate the studies for. It's called Verisol. V-E-R-I-S-O-L, which a lot of popular brands incorporate, like vital proteins, has

varisol collagen. Okay. Yeah. And there's another brand called Sparkle Wellness. So, yeah, that's just if you're trying to not be overwhelmed by what's out there. All right. Well, let's talk about procedures that are non-surgical, but how do you feel about certain microneedling, Botox, things like that, non-surgical?

And when to start those things? Yes. So I think that it's person-dependent, but I am a fan of non-surgical. ways to enhance your skin. There's different ones out there. So, of course, there's Botox, which, I mean, nobody needs any of these things. But in terms of when to start, it's when you start noticing lines that are just hanging around that are, like, etched in your skin. And it can vary from person to person. It could be your late 20s. It could be your mid-30s. Some, I've had like one patient who was like 16 who had that's huge crease in the

middle of her forehead. And that's because of her anatomy and like the way she makes expressions. My mom doesn't have that and she never has. Yeah. My mom is like she's 73. My mom does not have those lines that I got at 28. Like I think she has more collagen in her face naturally. Like I look at her. Her face looks like puffy and a good way.

But it's just crazy. I don't think she has gross feet. No, it's honestly crazy. And I've noticed those lines at different points in my life. The 11 lines for me started to come in pretty early. I mean, Ashley and I just laugh a lot. I was 27 when I started to see those lines really permanently forming. And I started Botox at 27.

And it really has just alleviated that. But my crow's feet, I didn't notice until we started touring, actually. And we were in so many photos. Just laughing so much. Yeah. Yeah. Casey Balsham has this. She's a comedian friend of ours. And she's like, oh, you have laugh lines, you pig.

We'll dab those out. But she's laughing, you're having too much fun. But I didn't notice crow's feet until I was like probably 33, 34. Like I started Botoxing different parts throughout my life. But it's been so preventative for me. Whereas like my mom has like deep lines, especially those 11. Yeah. Yeah, and we talked a lot, if you guys can listen back again, we talked with Dr. Barrett, who was our injector about Botox and fillers and when to start all that.

But I did really want to ask you about these facials and, you know, even just a big question of like, I'm getting married, which one do I do? And I dealt with this and I crowdsourced and people at all kinds of things to say. And I wasn't going to do something as drastic with the time I had before the wedding to get like a CO2 laser, which rain has gotten and like changed your whole face. Which I still want to do, but I sort of want to go under anesthesia for it. anesthesia for it. I was getting a chin implant. And so I was not awake for it. But in terms of like microneedling or is it the Hollywood facial? There's all these different names. Like we just wanted to talk to you about like, we'd love to hear your feelings on regular, just facial facials. Yeah. And just the more intense ones and like the spectrum of and what you feel about those. Yeah. So I think that there's also a little bit clarity that's

needed on what facials are because it could also just be like a little bit of a facial massage. or it could be like a full-on exfoliating session with chemical peels. Yeah. Or it could be just like extractions that are done by an esthetician. So I think facials can mean a variety of different things. When it comes to, I guess, different types of facials, there's like, I'll talk about microneedling first because sometimes even that's incorporated with a facial, like vampire facial. That's microneedling with PRP.

Yes. I've done that. Yeah. I'm a fan, actually. But yeah, micrneedaling, I love. I think it's a nice gateway procedure for people because the downtime is so minimal. 24 to 48 hours of redness. And I mean, I don't think it's like going to be as strong as some of the stronger lasers, whether it's CO2 or froxyl.

But I do think that it's a nice way to get some rejuvenation, stimulating your collagen and helping kind of even out your skin tone a little bit, helping with fine lines, wrinkles, some scarring. And yeah. And manageable pain. Yeah. Oh, yeah. There's a spectrum of pain too. And it's like, it's doable. it's not scary. It's not scary. Yeah, we do recommend topical numbing cream, but yeah, it knocks it all out. It's

funny because, like, even though I'm a derm, I like, that's the only procedure that I do, like, maybe once a year, like I barely do like any, I don't do it lasers or anything just because I can't deal with the downtime. I'm like, I just can't. I just want 24 hours. So people who they, I mean, CO2 laser, I couldn't be on camera for at least a week. Yeah, yeah. And then, okay, two questions. CO2 versus fractal. Do you have thoughts and feelings? Well, I think that CO2 will give you more dramatic results. But the traditional ones, like the downtime was really long. Like you just looked really gnarly for a week or two weeks. Oh, yeah. So that's radio frequency with microneedling, which actually that has low downtime. It's a staple gun to the face. I got it done. Kind of.

We did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It can be painful for some people. And that's also provider dependent as well in terms of your results in your experience. But with CO2, there are some newer ones now where the downtime is much less. So something to think about. We don't have it in our practice. But yes. And then we do have fractal, which I do like. That is about a one week downtime.

Is that kind of in between microneedling and CO2 pain-wise? Yeah, probably closer to CO2. There is some pain. There's going to be more pain with that. Yeah, like the heat is intense. They recommend that you be an under. Not for that one. Not for brachsal.

Yeah, yeah. Just numbing cream can. Okay. And then salmon sperm. Oh, yeah. So that's big in Korea. I know. Well, that has PDRN, which has been shown to help with collagen regeneration.

So PDRN is, it's like polydeoxyribonucleotide. And it's a molecule that can help with collagen regeneration. And it works. And I can see why it's incorporated. It works best that we have the best studies for it as an injection. So like if you've seen those videos like where it's like little. It's almost like little blebs under the skin. And that's done in Korea.

There are places in the U.S. where it's done, but it's not FDA-approved. So I can't wholeheartedly recommend it. Will I get it in Korea? Yeah. Yeah, we're going to take like a best friend trip to Korea one of that day. It's just like get everything. Yeah.

Our friend got it done here and was like, it's not really, I'm going to try it. But yeah, I didn't realize it's an injection type. So it's not really your traditional facial in any way. Right, right. Yeah, it's just like little injections in your skin. And it's just. plumping, like all the... Yeah, it plumps because it's like, it's like regenerating collagen.

It's nourishing to the skin. And, you know, when I was crowdsourced on what facial to get before my wedding, and again, I didn't have much time. I think it was a week before, so people were like, don't do anything crazy. But just get a really nice hydrating facial. She did some dermapalaining. She did some, like, exfoliating. Like, it was nice.

It was just like a... I felt like very glowy, Brenna. And nothing you haven't tried before. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm not super prone to super sensitive, and I told her that. But again, our friend Brenna has a Tribeca esthetician as her handle. And I got one with her and he was even better. Like, it was just really nice. You don't have to do all of that, especially if you don't have the downtime. And I feel like I could see a difference. Yeah, for sure. We have one in our office called the hydrophacial. The hydrophacial, which is a machine, by the way. Like a lot of people mention that to me and I didn't know what that meant. But it is all it is is the machine. Yeah. It's a brand of a machine. It's almost just like a little microderm abrasion, but it's so gentle. It's infusing like serums into your skin while like exfoliating or essentially like suctioning out like the dead skin. Love that.

I recommend that often before weddings. But there's also benefit for even long term use. Like it helps your collagen over time as well. And something like a microneedling, what do you see frequency of people doing this? Is it, you know, let's say it's a woman in her late 30s, early 40s. Or money's not really a problem. Like are they coming six months once a year, like a quarterly? Like what do you see in terms of frequency?

What do you recommend? Initially, I do recommend if you could do it like once every six to eight weeks for like three treatments. Okay. Initially. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then maintenance between, you know, one to four times a year, depending on that person. Yeah. So, yeah, like stack a few if you can and then you could even go annually.

Okay. It's like a maintenance. I like that. Yeah. Okay. Well, this, I mean, I can't believe how much information. I know. I can talk way more if you want.

No, you're a minute. We would stay on it. So we have to come. agent. This has been phenomenal, and I really, again, we recommend that people check out your Instagram because it's a real wealth of information. But tell everybody where they can find you, your practice, your social media, everything. Yes. So I'm on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. My handle is doctor.momena, dr.m-M-I-N-A. I also have a website, Dr.mimina.com. If you're interested in prescription retinoids, I co-founded a prescription service with two other

derms. Yeah, it's called DermClick. Just not bringing this up? Yeah. It's if you want a nice Tretnoan, so it's like a nice formula. Yeah, Trent Nguyen. Okay. Yeah, and anything for acne, rosacea, check out DermClick.com. Oh, okay. And yeah. I will be doing that.

Please. Okay, and you guys know where to find us. Girls Got to Eat.com. Girls Gotty Podcast on Instagram and TikTok. I'm Ash Hess on Instagram and TikTok. Raina is rana. Greeneberg. Raina Greenberg.com for her fall tour tickets.

You can watch full video on Spotify and YouTube. Subscribe. share this episode with a friend, leave a comment, leave a review, and we will see you guys Thursday. Have a good week, guys. Bye.