Girls Gotta Eat - "So, what are we?" with Lindsey Metsalaar

Episode Date: October 15, 2018

When should you define the relationship? Are breaks ever a good idea? And what should you be focusing on instead of landing a man? We brought in our friend, fellow podcaster, and dating guru Lindsey Metselaar from We Met at Acme podcast to offer her no-bullshit outlook on all these important topics, and loved what she had to say. We also introduce a new game -- What Would You Do? Enjoy! Follow Lindsey on Instagram @LindzMetz and @WeMetAtAcme. Follow Girls Gotta Eat @GirlsGottaEatPodcast, and check our website for show dates and merchandise. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

But I don't want all women to feel like they're just out here, like, waiting forever for the man to do it. What's empowering, I feel, is knowing that men are that dumb and knowing that if you do this, one thing will happen. And if you do this, the other thing will. Back to another episode of Girls Got to Eat. Welcome back. We are coming to you from Mouth Media powered by Senheiser. And we just wanted to let you guys know that if you're listening to this, you know that we've been in Atlanta. and Nashville, and we are recording this episode before we went on tour, on our southern tour.

Our two city. Our two city world tour. Our two city world tour. For me, it was three cities since I stop. I'm going to stop off at a wedding. So we're recording this in advance because we were going to be traveling. So next week, just expect a full download of Atlanta, Nashville, Raina's wedding in D.C. with her ex and all that stuff.

So I just wanted to give you guys a heads up. Also, we can touch base on my, if I've gotten a date. We'll give you guys a full-blown intro, download next week of all the stuff that's going on. But we just wanted to give you the heads-up if you guys have been following along our lives so closely that this one is a pre-recorded, just a scosh. A scosh? I've never heard you used that word before. Oh, just first time. You just come to you?

First time. Is that a word? Yeah. Did you just pick that up? I figured it was like a Jew thing. It sounds Jewish. It does. It sounds like a Yiddish word.

Oh, my God. A scosh? Is that a real word? It means like a little bit of something. All right, guys. We're going to do a poll on our Instagram stories. Is this a word? You know, we should play that a lot because I feel like I have weird words I say.

All the time. You make up words every episode. We should just do a dictionary, coffee table book of your words. Okay. Okay. Announcement number two. Okay. I'm getting a dog.

You are. I have been getting a dog for so long that it has its own Instagram account with 316 followers. That's more than most people. And it doesn't even exist yet. Raina's Instagram. It's Bagel the Yorkie. I hope you, Bagel the Yorkie. She found a stock image of a Yorkie as the profile picture.

So if you see Bagel trolling Ashley's account, it's me. All of a sudden, I'm like, oh my God, the dog has an Instagram account. And I was like, oh my God, you made a photo. And she goes, that's fagel. It's fake bagel. And like, now I just think of fagel every time he's like all over my feet. It's incredible. I'm so proud of you.

Thank you. But anyways, I am looking to adopt a dog. It doesn't have to be a mini-y. It could also be a King Charles Spaniel. Yeah. So I'm just going to put the call out if anybody has amazing little dogs to rescue. I would love to know about it. Yeah, because we've all been shaming her that she has to adopt, not shop.

but I can see you with a little Yorkie, but also a King Charles Spaniel. I would take you there and give it love and name a bagel. Okay, perfect. Well, I just wanted to shout out my dog, Dewey. I love Dewey. But I did this, I wanted to share this with you. I did this on my Instagram story last night. And I feel like I love Dewey more every day.

I feel like I look at him. I think he's cuter every day. I'm like more obsessed with him every single day. I love him more. I've had him for 10 years. 10 years this February, I will have had him. And I was like, I don't think people feel like this about their partners. I just don't.

Like, I don't think after 10 years that you're like, kind of love you more every day. Maybe that's just because I wouldn't know. I've never been in a relationship that long because I put this poll on my Instagram. It says, do humans and long-term relationships actually love their companions more every day? Or is that just a dog thing? And there's a picture of Dewey and like hearts around it. 80%.

Nope, that's just a dog thing. So, yes, dogs over humans always. Adopt, don't shop. Get a dog if you don't have a boyfriend or instead of a boyfriend. But yeah, I can't wait. I just want to have this cute little dog named Bagel. It's like, this is going to be so great. I was like, Bagel and Dewey can be.

It likes on my Instagram. I was like, Bagel and Dewey are going to be friends. And she was like, Dooie's not going to care. What's he going to do? Anyways, guys, stay tuned for me adopting an adorable little bagel. Okay. Okay. So we have a guest in the studio today.

We are so excited. She is a couple years... A fellow podcast. Oh, yeah. A fellow pod. Well, I wasn't going to say that. I was going to say she's a friend of mine, but she's also a fellow podcaster. She has an amazing show, also about dating and relationships based in New York City called

We Met at Acme. So please welcome to the studio, Lindsay Metzler. Thank you guys so much for having me. I just remember they told me not to move. So I'm just going to sit back. You can move a little bit, not as much as I move. You just don't need to get in the mic like a rapper. Right.

I feel like I want to do that. I mean, but I know I can't so much. We've had male guests that like get up in the mic, like they're like spitting rhymes or, you know, it's just. Someone's like shaking their ice coffee next to the mic the whole time. You can guess who. We actually have some crossover guests with Lindsay. So if you like anybody on our show, you can check if they were on her show. But we're going to talk all about the show and how you started it.

But I want you to introduce yourself. How old are you? Where are you from? What's your story? Love it. So I'm 28 as of two days ago. Oh, happy birthday. Three days ago.

Thank you. And I am from New York City. Lindsay and I met because I have a food Instagram, so does she. Yons. It's called Don't Expect Salads. Okay, you actually hate salad. I actually have never eaten a salad before in my life. Are you like Kylie Jenner where she posted like just had cereal and milk for the first time?

Except that she was fully lying because I think some of her friends came forward and they were like, I've had cereal with her before. So nobody's coming forward. to say no one's coming forward. No one's seen me to eat a salad. In fact, I found out this past year that I'm allergic to lettuce. So no salads for me ever. How did you find out?

Yeah. I took an allergy test at like a real place and they were like these are the foods you're allergic to and it was not just lettuce. It was a lot of tragic things but Like what? Not like cheese or anything, right? Peanuts. You've a peanut allergy. You just found out about? Just found out and I used to eat peanut butter like as a snack

before going out at night. Well, it's not going to like kill you. You don't need like an epipad, right? Yeah. No, I don't, but it's still dangerous. Okay. Yikes. Yeah. And like fruit, a lot of fruits, grapes, peaches. Oh my God. I know. So, okay, we don't, we don't spend forever on this topic, but, like, you were just like, no, fuck a salad. Like, since you were a kid. Yeah. Like, I just, my parents were really lax growing up. Like, they were like, you don't have to eat this lettuce. Here is, you know, chicken tenders. Chicken cutlets, chicken tenders and pasta or mac and cheese. And they were never the parents that were like, and here's the greens on your plate, too, that you have to eat.

They were just like, and that's what you get. You get what you want. And we were like, yay. And we thought it was like an amazing life until we got older. And all of our friends were like, your special needs almost. Like we have to like, we can't take you to a normal restaurant before looking the menu over and making sure that you can eat enough on it. So I was so happy that my parents did that. But looking back, I kind of wish that they were like, vegetables are.

are good. Vegetables are cool. Let's cook vegetables and love them together, you know. Do they not like vegetables? They love vegetables, which is the most fucked up part. They were like, oh, I don't even want to fuck with this. They were like, we're good. So let's fuck them up, I guess.

So I got to tell you about Lindsay's sister. Lindsay, all Lindsay wants to do is eat fried chicken and mac and cheese. All I want to do. Tell us about your sister. And my sister has a gluten-free health Instagram. She legitimately has an 8 to 12 pack and zero body fat and only eats quinoa. And I literally eat McDonald's more than I'd like to admit.

You love it. And yeah, I'm really trashed when it comes to my taste. Like fast food is honestly my favorite. And I, if I were gluten-free, I'd have nothing to eat in my diet for sure. Literally nothing left. Yeah. So it's just so ironic. And this guy that I used to date owned a salad restaurant.

So everyone in my life is like a health free. Trying to bring you down. Trying to bring me down except for me. You know, let me live. Right. Can you and your sister even dine together ever? We dine together, but only at, we've only really had a breakfast together or like a sushi because there's something for everyone. Okay, gotcha.

But yeah, mostly, we used to, growing up, we used to eat the same. But then she was like, you know what? I need a better life. And I was like, I was like, I need a worst life. I think it sounds like you the best life. Uh-huh. I agree. But I do stock your sister's Instagram.

So I'll just to see what you made for dinner. And then I'm like, just to like, where I'm not going to eat for dinner. Right. What is your? So your handles don't expect salads. Mine is don't expect salads. And hers is healthy alibi. So it's literal opposites.

Literal opposites. It's like crazy. It's too funny. I totally forgot to tell you about it. It's too funny. Usually one of us knows the guest. Like you download the other person. I told him.

And my dad kind of eats like me. It's also split in the family. And my mom eats like her. Okay. Oh my gosh. It's so funny. Yeah. So, okay, but we met at Acme.

Yes. This is your podcast. About a year old, right? Yeah. So it's about a year old. I started it when I was newly single. Okay. And I wanted to kind of like fill everyone in on the dates that I had been going on,

like the horrors of dating in the city. I have some crazy date. stories just like shitty or like funny or like no way that actually happened type stories, you know? So I just wanted to share that. And in the process of me sharing that, I learned so much and I'm still learning. I don't even know where to start. So many questions for Lindsay. But I can I ask one? Yeah. No. I was, yeah, go for it. And you're in a relationship now where we're going to get to that. But I'm just kind of curious. Like before you started the podcast, where, what was your stance? Were you like, oh my God, I've been through hell? Like,

How could you almost, I know it's hard to summarize, but if you could summarize your day and experience up till then, was it like the gates of hell? Yeah. It was like, it was pretty hellish. I was choosing the wrong guys and overlooking very obvious red flags for quite a while. I think that, you know, I think that women are very smart. Even if we are ignoring signs, we're doing it for like another reason deep down. and I don't think I was really ready for a relationship or like ready to be truly loved, as cliche as it sounds.

I kind of wanted someone who had only like a foot in because otherwise it would overwhelm me. So because that was what I was choosing, that was really what I was getting. And I was, I ended up getting hurt multiple times as a result because we're like just blindsided thinking that things were great one second and then it being like over the. the next and I couldn't really figure out what was going wrong, like what I was doing. And that wasn't always the case. Obviously, I had broken a few hearts as well, but those don't stick with you as much. Yeah. And I was like, I just need to kind of see if like everyone else was going through the same shit out there and everyone was, which was a really nice feeling. Yeah. That's what I love about

our show kind of also is that like everybody's just in these experiences. We had hundreds of emails a week and all the guests that come in here and everybody is dealing with all the this crap and every person is just out there trying to like live their authentic truth. Right. And getting all these crazy things back. But there's nobody that just has like an easy, totally calm dating life. No. Not in like a major city.

You know what I mean? Like you just have these like high powered people with like big personalities and exactly. You know, there's so many options and that kind of thing. Did it ever cross your mind? My parents asked me this a lot. That having a dating podcast would deter people from dating you. Yeah, so actually when I first started, I revealed a little bit more about myself than I do now in episodes.

Not for any reason other than that. I was just feeling the waters. I didn't really know if I was supposed to talk about myself, if I was supposed to be more of a host. And when I was doing that, it was actually more like my sister who tries to act like my mom sometimes, bless her heart, would be like, are you sure that like this is a good idea for dating? and I was like, no, I'm not sure, you know, because I just started it. How are we supposed to know? But hopefully, like, the right person will be fine with whatever I say about myself. And I did struggle.

I dated a few people before finding my current boyfriend who were not okay with it. And it was honestly, like, it was kind of mentally abusive because it's like you came into my life knowing I had this podcast to then be deterred by. it, but you are here. Right. You know, it was like a weird, like, that's how you knew about me. Was it them not wanting to be talked about or them not liking you talking about yourself so much? I think a mixture of both.

Yeah. And it's like a real pride thing for a lot of guys who are immature, you know. Yeah. I don't know. My thing is like I just, this is like my favorite thing to do. Yeah. The whole point is that we're so open and that's why people think they like know us and we've been able to find the six sex we have. So I'm just like hoping I'll find somebody.

100% you will. I mean, the guy that I'm dating now, we had matched on an app. He was basically not interested. And then was like, fuck it, I'll listen to an episode of her podcast. He wasn't interested in you, you think? Not not interested, but just like, what's it to him? It's just another girl on a dating app, you know? And he listened to the podcast and he was like, oh, she's actually cool and like funny and puts herself out there.

And like, that was what turned him on. So that's the right person that you need to be with. someone who sees what you do and not only likes it, but, like, thinks it's inspiring, you know? What episode was it? Do you know? It was the first episode. He started from the beginning. Did he binge it then?

He better have binge it. He said he only watched one episode, but I bet you the truth is not. Somewhere in between. He's all caught up. Yeah, fully. But I wanted to mention before, like, another reason I really wanted to do the podcast is because I have made so many mistakes. And, like, we used to, Raina and I would go to our food events and laugh about, like, I would be

like, oh, no, she would be like, how is. And I'd be like, nope, it's over. Here's what happened. Like, before we can even sit down. Because I've made mistakes and I'm not afraid to be like, I did this wrong. Don't do this. Like, please, I'm telling you, don't do this because I did it and it did not work. Not that, like, you know, it's the same for everyone, but it kind of is, you know.

Yeah. I think that's why people like your show and, like, our show is that, like, we're not out of here telling people, like, don't do this, but we're not going to talk about ourselves. You have to be generous with your own life to add credibility. Like, there's nothing I won't talk about on the show. Talk about shitting my pants on this show. I don't need to share that for any reason at all. It's better to talk about that now. When you start dating someone who listens to the show, he knows that you're fine with shitting.

And then shitting's an awkward conversation. I don't know. It's weird. It's like someone, a guy hits on me or whatever is interested in me because he heard the show. And immediately I tense up because I'm like, oh my God, you know everything about me. This isn't fair. Like it's not balanced. Like I know nothing about you and you know everything about me.

But I'm also like, yeah, that's the kind of guy I'm going to have to have that already is okay with this. Exactly. I'm not going to take it down a notch. You know what my theory is, though, and I always say this, like, my mom's like, you know, like, don't you think this will deter people? And I always say, like, I don't, I think that every date you go on, you should act as though the person has a nationally syndicated podcast that they can talk about you on. Like, I can't imagine what somebody would do to me on a first date that I would need to go talk about this on the podcast.

But if you're doing those things, then I don't know, you kind of deserve it. I agree. Right. I feel like if I met a guy that I really liked and I want to date with him, I probably. I probably wouldn't talk about it that much on the show. I'd say I had a date. I'd leave it at that. Yeah.

I thought about that too. I mean, I'd be more a little more private with it if I saw like a future, but I wouldn't exclude it totally because that's kind of like what we're doing out here. That's true. You know? Yeah. That's how I got in trouble a lot in the beginning is I would tell stories of bad dates that I went on. And sometimes I even named names.

Like in trouble how? Like they were. You named me? I was like really a beginner. Did you think that the show would be as big as? I thought that like three people that I know would hear it and be like, cool. I was one of the three. That's true.

I listened to the beginning. That's true. And then once he like called me and he was like, everyone has sent me this. I can't believe you mentioned my name. I was like, what? People know how to listen to a podcast. So I'm really interested in like what people really want to talk about with you. I'm sure you get a lot of emails and DMs and the poll questions are great too.

So what are some like questions that people are. people like constantly ask. Yeah. People are always asking. So I'll do like ask me a question feature on Instagram. And every single time I've done it, people, the question, how do I define or when do I define my relationship has been in it? And I'm just like never because no.

Like you just need to live your life and be happy. And if your partner wants to define the relationship. they will. But I just don't think, and trust me, I believe in female empowerment, totally. But I also believe that men are really dumb, and they need to feel like it was their idea. And if you take that from them,

they will go find someone else who won't. I hate that that's the case, but it kind of is. It really is. But I don't want all women to feel like they're just out here, like, waiting forever for a man to do it. What's empowering, I feel, is knowing that men are that dumb and knowing that if you do this,

one thing will happen, and if you do this, the other thing will. I mean, that's the thing. They are simple-minded. I like to use that. And that's a term from a man that emailed us. He said, this episode was so spot on. We are simple-minded creatures,

and he went on this whole thing about how right we were about analyzing the male brain. We also had a doctor in here that said that there's completely different parts that make up a male brain. But I think it's, you have to make them think these things were their idea. No, I know how they operate and like how to get what you want, I guess.

Yeah. But sometimes it's just by being patient or just like, yeah, exactly. But I think that I've exercised like not being patient. And I once really wanted the relationship to be defined, but I didn't want to ask because I just would never put myself in that position. So instead I asked, I said I had someone asked me on a date this week. What should I tell them? Which got me exactly what I wanted. He was like, tell them no, you have a boyfriend or whatever it was.

And I was like, oh, great. But now looking back, that didn't end up working out. And I was like, did I force that out of him? And then after that. And then after that. And then he created a jealous situation as opposed to him really wanting. Right. So it was more like a test as opposed to just like a natural progression.

Totally. Which I should have waited for, you know, because like then he ended up getting scared later on. Whereas, and I said this in one of my podcast recently, men need to feel like they have someone that's out of their league. So if you start acting, like you think you're either on the same league or you're below them or anything like that, they will believe you and run away. Like the situation, for a man to want to settle down and have a wife, he has to truly feel like this is a woman out of his league who he got. I say it all the time.

Another guy emailed us. There's some, I'm curious to listen to the app, he referenced a psychology podcast. And the way he said it was great. I can't pull up the email right now, but it was like that. It was like not a ton, just a little bit. It can be that he feels like he a little bit out of his league that he's the lucky one. Like I've said that since day one, all the relationships I know, the guy, I feel like he got this like get of this girl.

I truly, truly believe that. So what you're saying makes so much sense. That like if you initiate that, what are we conversation, you take that away a little bit. Like he should be the one to be like, no, I got to hold you down. You're the one that's like out of my league. Totally. And it's absolutely fine to express your feelings. But, you know, once the relationship is defined in my opinion.

Yeah. And I have a good girlfriend of mine and she really wants to be in a relationship. She's in her 30s and she's trying to find. somebody, but she even feels, she's like, until a guy has that talk with me, I'm going to date other people. Absolutely. I think that's the other side of the coin that's fair. It's like, until somebody feels like defining it with you, you shouldn't have to be the kind

of person that's just waiting and hoping and praying. And that's so passive to me. I wouldn't advise somebody to be that passive forever. But you're allowed to go do whatever you want to do. Yeah, do whatever you want to do. I mean, I guess, let me ask you what you think of this. I'm curious, because I like your take on this. I think maybe we're, I can see a girl in a scenario, and I can think of what I would advise.

I can think of a girl in a scenario where she's like, I get it. I'm, you know, with me and this guy are hanging out, we're in this relationship, but like, I want to invite him to a wedding. You know what I mean? And she's like, are we there yet? To me, I'm like, you should know. I just think if you're in a solid relationship, you kind of, it's reciprocal, but I think that's probably where some girls get confused, you know?

No, I'm with you. When you said that, do you mean, like, they wouldn't even be questioning if they should invite him? They would just do it? I don't think I'd be in a situation like that. I would like, I would know. Right. You know, I'm like, this person is really into me. You know, if I'm feeling comfortable enough to ask them if I want to go to like a family member's wedding with me, it's like, I know that we're like in this together.

Yeah, absolutely. But that's probably where girls get tripped up. They're like, but I want to invite him to this like life event or this or that. And I think that's where they're like, what do I do? I think there's always these ambiguous times. And we get a lot of emails like this too. Like I don't know how to define the relationship or when to define it. There's this long ambiguous time period in relationships, especially today in major cities where people are in no rush to settle down and how.

have kids and get married. We're like, you just don't know what it is. And maybe we just all need to stop being in such a rush to define it. You know? Because three months is not that big of a deal. Fine. At the end of three months, if you're still fucking around with somebody, you're not sure if they're into you, then goodbye.

But, like, I don't think that we just need, it's been six weeks, and we've been on nine dates. And I have to know exactly what this is. Like, I don't know, manage that stress in another way. I completely agree. Yeah. You can't torture yourself and torture another person to give you an answer. I completely agree.

And I just think that, as you were saying before, like, you're not questioning it when it's really good. You're not thinking, you're not even asking your friends for advice when it's when it's right, you know, because you're like, I got this in the bag. Right. That's what you hope. I mean, that's what everybody, like, hopes for. Right. It doesn't always happen like that. I don't know.

Is that kind of what happened with you in this guy that you're dating? How long have you been dating? Yeah, we've been dating for five, almost six months now. Oh, okay. We just did the I love you. Aw. But that was a long time, right? Yeah, that's kind of long.

Yeah, I see it like three weeks in or something. Wait, congrats. I want that. I miss those. Okay, you guys were on a trip, though. Did you do it on the trip? We did. Actually, he, it sounds so cheesy.

I want to bar for myself. I'm done. But he asked me, he told me he loved me on the same, on the same couch where he asked me to be his girlfriend. So it was very cute. But yes, when I started dating him, I was dating three people. Okay. And he definitely stood out because obviously he was the hottest.

Physically he stood out. But he also had, out of the three guys, he had a life more. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, he had more going on in his life. He had, like, friends and a social life. You know, I could tell. And then the other two guys were kind of just, like, waiting on my hand and feet.

And then another thing, and this is actually funny, I wonder what you guys think about this. Another reason that he stood out was because one of the other guys I was dating, whenever we would go to dinner, he would stare at me, like, lovingly. You know, like, the eyes, like the I'm in love with you. eyes or like love eyes. Well, you're like, please don't say it. That should not come up like on the third date. Like there should not be loving stares on the third date.

And then he, and this is the guy that I didn't work out with, he got me like a $450 like eight course dinner reservation with him. Oh, that's terrible, Andy. I'm so sorry. And I honestly felt trapped. I was like, wait, so now I'm going to have to go to this dinner and have do sexual things with you because if not, that's fucked up all of a sudden. You know what I mean?

Only time I ever had butt sex was after an $850 dinner. It's like a trap. It's a trap. It's a legit trap. Where was the dinner? I forgot. It was like a townhouse. It wasn't even a real restaurant.

It was like these two people who like make this amazing like. I don't have to find out because I kind of want to go with my current boy, bro. We've talked to that all the time. Guys take me into these great places and I bring like a date there. Yeah. Like another day. Oh yeah. They like introduce me.

Like this guy brought me to like, accessible sake bar. Oh my God, I'm just going to say that's the place that I did that at. A guy brought me there and then I started bringing dates there. It's so true. That's so funny. It's such a good date place. It's so, but it's like when you show somebody that place for the first time, it's so impressive. They're like, where am I? You're so cool. We've talked about this before. But you always got too fucked up. Oh my God. Like, so fucked up. I don't, I'm going to save this. No, I don't want to save until later. What if you're on, like, what do you do when you, like, you're on a third or fourth date with somebody and they mentioned

that they want to take you to some like he clearly just wanted to do something to impress you and special but it's so expensive and egregious I mean obviously in person I was like that sounds incredible oh my god like tell me more you know I'm such like a bullshitter in person and then like and then like I left and I was like I'm ignoring his text for three

weeks but like in person what are you going to say oh no that's too much I was already done with him in my mind not because of the dinner but because of the loving love that I was like, I don't need to be mean now to, you know? Yeah. But going back to the original question, just because it just felt like right and I didn't feel like I had to be like, wait, wait, are you seeing anyone else?

Like, am I? I just felt like he wasn't and I didn't want to. It really is like the last like serious relationship I was in. The talk was like laying in bed. We were like on a vacation. Like we went on like a trip pretty early. And he was like, so are we like boyfriend, girlfriend? It was very cute.

And I was like, of course. Like, it was just this natural thing. Like, I just wish that for everybody because it's a really great feeling. But again, like, he brought it up. But it was just like, of course we are. Right. Exactly. I'm curious how I've never been good at dating multiple people at the same time.

What do you struggle with? I don't know. I think I'm just like a one person girl. Like I like one person. There was a point where I was dating to you guys at once a few years back. And I just felt weird. I was like telling the same stories and like doing the same bits on dates. That's okay.

I don't know. And I was like, couldn't keep track of who I had told stories to. Yeah. I just liked one more. So when I was hanging out with the other guy, I just wanted to be with the main one. But you probably wouldn't have known that if you weren't dating them both. That's true. I highly suggest it when I tell girlfriends and I've done this the same, like if you really like somebody that's new, like you've gone on a few dates.

But you're like, God, I like this person so much, go out with somebody else. Like take that job off. Yeah. Oh, that's when you need to. you even more. A friend of mine, she's so sweet. She'll, she never can date more than one guy. And she'll be like, you know, because I really like this guy. And I'm like, that's why you need to. Take the edge off. You're putting every single thing into this one guy. And it never ends up working out. And I'm like, if you had dated maybe two, maybe one of them would, you know.

Right. Takes the pressure off one. Yeah. Raises your chances. And I mean, just to even elaborate on that advice that we're giving, like, it doesn't mean you need. need to go sleep with some guy. No. No. He's not to drink with a guy. Like let another guy admire you. Right.

Let for other guys. Like why one? Right. Have a different date every night. If somebody like, if one person blows you off or can't do plans, you're not sitting at home stewing, you're not upset. It's just like no big deal. Right. You have another one.

Exactly. Like when there's nothing else going on in your life and you just sit at home and you like focus on this so badly. Yeah. Yeah. For me, I need to work on not drinking as much on a day. Like I really need to. to like hardstop myself at like two and a half drinks because like that's a lot three drinks is a lot for me and then I will start telling the same story over and over again. Yeah. And I'll forget what I told

which person and like I don't know. Well that's why so when you're dating multiple people, I think you cap it at a certain number like that you can handle. Of people or drinks? Of people. Okay. Of people. Both. Both. But mostly of people because if you're dating, if you already know you're not into them and it's a third date, you just find a new. person to date and get rid of them. Let's say there's another person you do like in the picture, right? But if it gets too deep with someone, then they actually start to get offended when you don't remember things about their life.

And then you just like feel like a dick all the time. Yeah. So that's when you need to cut it off. But I remember this one quote about dating a few guys at once, which is the best quote ever. I'm going to fuck it up. But it's like every woman needs a man to clean around the house. Every woman needs a man to like tell her she's beautiful. every woman needs a man to take her on trips

and every woman needs a man to make her laugh. These women just need to make sure that the four guys don't know each other. I definitely butchered it, but you know. But we get the point. There's nothing wrong with that. And for me, it's hard to juggle, but, like, I'm all for it. And, like, when I only have, like, one thing, one guy going on and he, like, breaks plans with me or something.

Like, I'm so bummed about it. But, like, if I just have other stuff going on, And you just don't care. It doesn't feel as personal somehow. And it's just like not that big of a deal. And you have a chiller reaction and therefore they like you better probably. And I mean, if we're not saying to lie, we're not saying to, you know, sneak around with these three dudes, be open about it. If a guy you really like is like, oh, wait, are you seeing other people?

Like, say yes. Yeah, you are. Yeah, are you not? I didn't know. And then that's probably a prompt for like, wait, I want to be exclusive. And then you're like, we'll say. Exactly. It's funny because it never happens.

Like, I don't think anyone's ever asked me straight up, are you sleeping with other people? It always happens that the guy is like, well, I'm not sleeping with other people, by the way, or you. Right, right, right. You know, like, guys are so protective. What do you say then? Like, uh, not anymore. No, I'd be like, yeah. Yeah, no, I am.

Like I did this week. I just say like, I'm out there. I'm out there. We out here. Okay, so I like this vein of like, what do people ask you all the time? I wonder if your audience asks you different things. So, like, what's another thing that people ask you all the time? Well, you just came from what, like a speaking engagement?

About being on a break? Yes, pretty much. No, I was at a meeting with my friends who were doing a movie about whether or not a break kind of takes it to the next level or not. Takes the relationship to a next level? Yes, like whether a break is kind of good for you, or bad for you and your partner? Is this people that are living together, people that are married, people that are,

where is the break? I would say, like, right before living together. Okay. Yeah. Because once you're living together, breaks, kind of inconvenient, to say the least. Okay, so is a break ever? So I think a lot of people are in these scenarios where they love their partner. They just don't know if this person is the forever person.

And, like, is it good to keep dating that person? Should you take a break and see what else is out there? So like, what do you guys think? Yeah, that's when a break, I think, is good. But my problem that I brought up before is it never, it's never as easy as, honey, you know, I am not sure if you're the one. Do you mind if we go on a break? Oh, yes, I would love to do that.

You are so wise. You just think of everything that helps us in the future. Thank you for this. No, fuck that. It's going to go, the girl's going to say, I'm having some doubts. Maybe we should take a break. he's going to say, okay, fuck you, we're done. I'm going to go find a girl to blow me tonight because you don't appreciate me.

Yeah. It's really the way that it works. And if I ever thought that a guy would react in a normal way, I would maybe be more of an advocate for breaks. But it always ends up kind of fucked, you know, unless, I don't know. I mean, yeah, what do you think? I think it's so hard for me to be in answers. I think it's so, every situation is so wildly different.

I feel like I've seen couples take breaks and you're like, oh, it's a breakup, you know, and then I've seen couples take breaks. Then they got married and they're great. So it's hard to, I don't know. I think it's so dependent on what the scenario is. Yeah. I mean, I'm also speaking as someone who's never been on a break after high school. So I don't know what like an adult break is.

I think for me, like the only real scenario I see this being like an okay thing is if you're just like, you feel so confused and you make it clear that I just need like a couple days of not talking to you like three days let's just let's hit the pause button but like to me I don't want to take a break from somebody I either want to work through our issues together want to talk about it with you or I want to break up but I guess I can see maybe like you know I'm having a really tough time and maybe I am going on a trip with some girlfriends maybe let's not talk for a couple days but can you imagine if a guy did that to you like no I hate it that's such shit right I don't ever so I don't think that it's ever a good idea. I think that you work through your problems or you break up. But

also, like, there's so many rules that come up then. So, like, can I text you? Can I sleep with other people? And lines get blurred. Like, the resentment occurs. It's just like, so one of the guys I was talking to about this before said that he and a girl went on a break. That break made him realize, which she initiated, by the way, made him realize that he didn't want to be with her. Right. Okay. And that is like probably the biggest fear you could. have of a break, right, where you're the one thinking, I'm unsure, then you go on the break and then your partner's like, oh, wait, me too, by the way, peace. Right, but that will just stop.

Well, don't test your partner like that. Exactly. That's not fair. That's my point. You know, then your partner goes out and dates other people and they're not in the wrong. Right. Exactly. I guess, you know what?

I think more so, I more often than not, I see couples get back together, like, actually broke up. Like, it was a definitive breakup for whatever reason. Yeah, which is more mature, obviously. Yeah, they figured it out. They realized. they wouldn't be back with the other person. I think maybe in most cases, a break is kind of bullshit.

I don't believe that. I agree. But I totally, I see couples. I know. Break up. Yeah. Personally, like, if someone said to me, I think we need a break, my initial thought and last thought and always thought would be they don't,

they don't feel strong enough for me to know that they want to be with me. And that's actually not someone I want to be with. Right. Well, isn't like the indication from that that they didn't feel like sticking around and working on it? Like instead of sitting at a room with you and being like, I don't like this. They're like, you know what? I don't want to be around you.

Yeah, a partnership only works when two people are willing to be in it. And when one says, I actually want a break, they're saying I'm willing not to be in it. I guess in just offense of men, like I think, you know, they, sometimes they can't figure out why they're feeling a certain way. And like they're, you know, if you read like men or from Mars, women are from Venus, which is still just like a super great applicable book. Men, like, the way that they have to deal with things is to like retreat where women is still. face it head on and men need to go to like their cave for a few days and like figure out how their simple mind is working. So I can see, I guess I can see a scenario where a guy's like, oh, I don't want to lose her, but like I can't process my own emotions, I guess. I don't know.

I can't give them too much credit. That guy sucks. That guy who doesn't want to lose her but can't process their emotions is trash. I don't want that guy. Not only does no one want that guy, but that guy doesn't want the girl either. Right, no. And he wouldn't be having those feelings if he was with the person that he did want, you know? So don't be, don't stick around if a guy does that to you. Well, I would just suggest, because not everybody knows how to process their feelings and deal with things. Some people do retreat.

I retreat. Like, instead of standing in a room and screaming with somebody, I'll just disappear for the day and not answer my phone. And that is the fault of my own. But, like, I think you should at least offer your partner alternative ways of dealing with something. So if somebody's like, I need a break from you. I would at least offer to, like, can we just talk about this maybe? Like, what's ailing you? And if the thing that is ailing you is not something that I'm ever willing to fix,

then we should break up. Right. You not being around me for a week is not going to help the situation. Agreed. You know, and it's not going to make me feel any better about you. Agreed. And it's a mind fuck because, like, it's a fact that when you're away from someone, you only kind of feel like and remember the good times and the good feelings.

So it's like, obviously, you're going to miss them and you're going to think, oh, I should be with this person. Right? Yeah. And it's the same thing with a breakup. That feeling is always going to happen, even if you're the one that broke up with them and was trying to for three years. But it's all about how long that lasts.

You know what I mean? Like if that feeling doesn't go away for more than half the time that you've dated that person. Right. The relief doesn't come out. Like if you don't feel washed with relief. Then go back and be with them. But I think the biggest mistake that people make is going back to someone because of that feeling that they don't realize is a normal feeling of breakups.

And I think just, I think people need to realize that like sometimes you get annoyed with your partner. Like I feel like I realize that in my own of serious relationship where I was like, oh my God, I'm so annoyed with him today. I just need him out of my space. And I was talking to my best friend. And she was like, that's normal. I just get so annoyed with my husband all the time. And I'm like, oh, thank God.

And I remember one time I felt that way. And I was like, I just feel like we've been spending so much time together. We're like working this project together. I'm just, he's always here. It's too much. And then I just like came to New York for the weekend. And like I went back and like everything was better. or like I think maybe sometimes guys are like, I feel annoyed and I don't know what to do about it.

And then they're like, we might need to go on a break when in reality, just like take some time for yourself. Exactly. Like everybody gets annoyed with their partner. Right. No, I totally agree. But that's what you really like about your boyfriend that I always say. He has shit going on. He has shit going on.

But there needs to be like a code word for like, let me be alone. Even like in the morning when you have to shit. Like, you know, just like let's not do the cuddle this morning or. Right. I get, I build up and build up. I get so wound tight, like a rubber van. Like, if you touch me or look at me one more time, I might actually kill you. Like a totally irrational reaction to somebody just being alive.

Right. Yeah. So you got to, like, just go to your office or like, go ride the train somewhere. Right. Take a walk. Right. Exactly. And I, yeah.

And I think I, you know, this wasn't exactly how we started this topic, but I just want to tell girls or whoever, especially if it's your first relationship and you're like, wait a minute, am I falling out of love? Or like, it's like, no, you're actually just settling into a normal relationship. Normal relationship. Honeymoon period honestly ends earlier and earlier as we get older. I honestly believe that. I don't think there's a honeymoon period after you're 30. Like, I don't. I think you're just like, it just immediately, because like I'm 28 and I feel like it's just diminishing. And like, I don't think that has anything to do with the people as much as like we are all done. You've exactly two years left until it's over.

Get it. Especially in New York. We're just annoyed at everybody. Right. Do you think this because they're so inundated with each other all the time with social media? 100%. It's like, can I just, when do I get permission to be annoyed by? Like, it's like you meet someone, you think they're amazing and you want to fast forward to being annoyed by them. You know what I mean?

Like on the couch. Well, and like that's, of course. Like that's those are the best conversations with your girlfriends of like, can you believe what my partner is doing? This is insane. He's an insane person. So true. So we talk a lot about we play, obviously it's a dating podcast or relationship podcast.

And that's what you have. been, I think we place a high premium on, like, being a relationship and dating. But one of the things that Ashley and I talked about having you on the show, like, what are we going to talk to her about is like this, this need, this premium placed on being in a relationship. And like, why does everybody need this so badly? And like, why does this seem so important? And you're somebody specifically who I think has a great family and a good relationship with your parents and your sister and you have tons of, like, lifelong friends. And businesses. So I don't know that you, like, need a relationship.

You like one. Exactly. And I think that's exactly why I'm in one right now is because I don't need one. And that's not like easy. You have to actively be doing things for yourself. So whether it's going to a therapist or working out or joining a sports team or, you know, going to the movies with a friend once a week, whatever it is, going to more like, like-minded events, if you're not doing those things and things for yourself, if you don't appreciate your

family, appreciate your friends and really put your whole self into it because you're so desperate for that partner, that's going to come across. Absolutely. Like, it's going to come across not only as desperation, but like depression almost, whether or not that's the case because if you can't be happy with what you have without that person, that's what you'll be left with, is depression. And like no one wants to come to someone and be their light and be the person that like lifts them up. They want to come to someone who is a light already, you know.

And I think that if you're, you know, the less, it's, again, so cliche, but like the less time you have for someone, the more likely they are to like walk into your life because you're not expecting that. And you don't. Yeah. And like you didn't prepare for it. I just love that message so much. And I mean, every single. every guy, 100% of guys. And again, like, I, you know, tend to stir around myself with, like, great dudes.

Like, want a girl that has shit going on. No, even not great dudes. Even shitty dudes want to go. All dudes are going on. Even guys who don't do anything. Yeah. I've seen guys just straight up and relationships because the girl just didn't have enough. And, like, he was her whole world.

And they just couldn't deal with that pressure. Totally. You see that all the time. Like, guys, they're like, she doesn't have any friends the other way around. What? Where he has no friends. and she is his world type thing. Yeah.

Yeah, nobody wants that. And I always like to make it clear. Like, we talk about this podcast, we talk about dating and relationships, because that's what the theme of the podcast is. If we were doing an entrepreneurial podcast about starting a business, we'd be talking about that, you know? So I think it's so obvious that the three of us in this room,

like, have so much else going on. And, like, yeah, a partner would be nice, but if they fit in, they fit in. And we're trying. I mean, everybody wants love, you know, and people don't want to die alone. But at the end of the day, if you asked me my most important thing in my life,

it's like my family, you know, and then now this career and my friends. I think it's hard because a lot of people, I mean, it's easy for me because my family's here. So even if I wasn't close with them, I would have to spend a lot of time with them. I feel like a lot of people are like implants from other places, and they don't have like this big social life.

So then it's harder, you know. Totally. You just have to figure it out. I don't know. Like, what do you like to do? Yeah. Like, I guess like you said, it's so true that so many people who are in cities with their transplants.

So, yes, you don't have family and friends around you all the time. It's harder to find a hobby. I fell into my hobbies by accident. I started this food Instagram account. I fell into photography. And I guess not everybody has the luxury of doing that. But, like, I don't know, try harder. Yeah.

Because, like, nobody wants the responsibility of being the only light in your life. And it's not fair to make somebody do that. It's so true. And I'm sure. I feel like. Totally. And I'm sure that you get these questions a lot, Raina, but a lot of young girls will be like, I want to get started in like a food insta or like a, you know, a workout Instagram. And, you know, I can tell that they also want a boyfriend, kind of. And I'm just like, well, why don't you do like the thing for you first? And then there's always like, but this, but that,

like, it's so saturated. But every, but so what? You know what I mean? Like that's just like, what it is nowadays. So if you're like listening to us right now, you want to start that Instagram, you want to start that podcast, whatever it is, do it. That's actually more likely to get you that person that you want to be with. Well, do anything you feel like passionate about. Like if this is like, don't do it because you think that's what you're supposed to do. But it's like, I really want to start this, but I feel passionate about it, but it's too saturated. Don't worry about that. But like if it's going to really make you happy to like go do fitness stuff and post on Instagram or go take pictures of food and do this. Like, do it. I've had so many guys obviously say they're so drawn to that,

like a girl that's passionate about anything. That's another thing. I'm actually curious what you think. I have, and I agree with you guys are drawn to that. I have a few girlfriends and guy friends who are struggling because they are not passionate about something. Yeah. I have some feelings about this for you. What do? What do you do? What advice do I give them? So my feelings about this is, you know, the two like really big things in my life right now, of this podcast and obviously the food Instagram account photography. And those are things that I'm crazy passionate about. But I didn't start those things to have a passion. I started those things because it sounded really fun to do a great show with a girl that I really liked. And it sounded

really fun to, I always liked food and so I took photos of it. And I started things that were fun and I might be interested in and they became an amazing passion for me. And so if you don't have something that you're so passionate on, just try a couple of things that you think might be fun once. that you kind of like. Maybe they'll grow and maybe they won't. But like what came from the food Instagram was that I met all these great friends and I grew and grew and I actually met Ashley through a trip that I was involved in and like things will come from it. You know it to start something tomorrow to be like, I'm going to have the biggest business from it. Right. I guess people are just like crippled by fear and like fear of failure, fear of rejection. I guess like that's my one thing.

I don't really have a lot of patience for people like sit around and talk about what they wish they could do and how they're unhappy with their work or their relationship. I just have zero patience for it. Like, you know, we live in America. Like, you know, make your own moves kind of thing. And you have, like, the world at your disposal. But I think people get, like, they'll look at what we do and they're like, oh my God, where do I even start? It's like, start small. Like, I don't know. Go to like this class or go to this podcast recording and see what it's all about. I don't know. Whatever it is, just don't be overwhelmed and such small steps can take you there. It took us a long time to get here.

And I think just don't be scared to take your risk. I think that's what ultimately... And they see whether people are doing on Instagram and they compare themselves. Maybe like if you're someone who doesn't have a passion for something currently, and this is like career advice that I've not in any way qualified to give. But if you aren't passionate about something,

I would look to like the past and see. see what you've done already and what you can contribute back type of thing. Right. There's a million platforms on the internet. I don't want to say to everybody, like, take a class because, like, classes are expensive and it can be a lot of money to go. Like, you know, when I was first not working, I tried a bunch of classes in, like, photography and Photoshop and, like, not everybody has all the time and money to do that.

But, like, there's a million online platforms, like, time out in every city that lists all kinds of cool, free things going on. Like, just go to a couple of them and see what you like. And yeah, not overnight. Are you going to wave a wand and have a podcast or a tech startup or whatever it is that you want to do? But try a thing and see if you like it. Yeah. I love what you said about just like draw and like past experiences.

What made me want to start this podcast was that I just was always talking about like dating and relationships. And I like enjoyed it so much. And I just loved analyzing relationships and dating. Me too. This is exact. All I want to do is talk about this. Right. I went through a pretty painful breakup.

and like I couldn't stop talking about it enough, you know? And then I was like obsessing, not obsessing, but just analyzing all these other people's relationships. And I got so into it and I realized that. That's as cheesy as it sounds. I was like, I want to talk about this for a living. And I think also sometimes like if you say you don't have a passion, yeah, you do. Right.

Like look at what you liked when you were a kid even. Like do you like to dance or draw? Like whatever. Do you like to just talk about breakups? You know one of those people that likes to like look up real estate on like Zillow. then queer job and become a real estate agent. Right. You know?

Or get into architecture, photography. Totally. Like, anything. Like, the tools are there. But, you know, we don't talk about, like, entrepreneurial stuff a lot. And I think that some people are just, like, wondering, like, we do get some email sometimes about, like, career advice. And I just want to say that, like, being a relationship is not the only thing in my life

and it's not the goal. And, you know, I have all these things I'm so proud of. And when I find a partner, I think that hopefully they'll be proud and excited that they found somebody that like doesn't need them but wants them. Absolutely. Amen. And when you think about people in relationships, take that relationship away and ask yourself what they have still.

Right. Wow. For some of my friends, it's nothing. It's just the relationship. Yeah. I look at some of my friends, especially the ones I grew up with because I grew up in the Midwest and obviously, I'm not saying this like just statistically people in New York get married later in life.

A lot of my friends growing up got married in their early 20s. They have kids. They have houses. they have all these things. And sometimes I'll look at their lives and I'll just, you know, there's a bit of jealousy where you're like, oh, they've like figured it out. But like not all those people have anything besides that. And those are great things to have.

And they could be very miserable. One person could be cheating. Those are just pictures. Oh, God. Yeah, it's just not what I put weight on. And it could be a really great thing. Like that could be all you want in life. And that's a beautiful thing.

And I've just chosen a different path. And by the way, you will, if you want, have the family. have the house, but you'll not only have that, but you'll also have what you've been building, which is just the more fulfilling. And then you will be so much more fulfilled for the rest of your life. Right. Also, those are the things I think nobody can take away from you. Like, a partner can die or leave you tomorrow.

Right, right. And the things that can't be taken away from you are the things you built unless Ashley dies. If you ever die out of, think about if you guys, if we're all getting married, like, like if you're a single girl or a single guy out there who feels like you have nothing because you're single, if you got married and your partner was like, I need a pre-nup, would you have anything to sign for? If not, then stop thinking about a relationship and go work.

Like, go work. Would you want to protect anything that you have worked for? If not, get out of here. It's true. What do you have? Not in a shitty way. Ask yourself. It's not even in a shitty way.

Even if you're an assistant to someone for years and years, you have that. That's yours. Yeah, totally. You know? What are you doing? We designed a game specifically for you. First time we're ever playing it because we've never had, we've had some relationship experts on here and doctors, but never a female world famous podcaster. Oh, that's not sure.

I guess we had. Lindsay's my new favorite relationship expert. Oh, you're so sweet. We had the guys from you up on our show. We had Jared and Jordana on our show, so I don't want to take away from Jordana. So you know that I, you know that I, you know that I, you know that I, you know that I, you know that I, it into Jared's DMs after I heard him on your show. I am not surprised at all. I was listening to it. First of all, coming on your show was so much fun. We had the best time with you. I think I texted

Raina. Yeah. Do you want to do a podcast? Oh, that's so funny. And she, I think you said I'm about to go to my friend's podcast. Yeah. Yeah. And then I remember seeing her and like your parents had just listened to it. Didn't your parents listen to hers? Like 30 seconds into your show, you're like, I'm going to try this new thing. When did you lose your virginity and can you come story. Right up top. And my mom listened. And I saw you, I think, right after that dinner. I saw you, like, on the street and you were like, I just came from dinner with my parents. Oh, my mom, like, knows that I lost my virginity in her house or like something crazy. I was on my way to dinner at, what is it called? It's by Washington Square Park. My mom's like,

I listened to the podcast. I was like, well, you know a lot of things about me now. I guess I'm disinvited to Thanksgiving. So we designed a game for you. It's called, What Would You Do? We didn't get that much more creative with the name. Oh, I love that. I was thinking, what would you do with Nicolode? Can we all sing, like, that verse, like, for the beginning? What would you do? What would you do if someone's at home crying all alone on the bedroom floor because he's hungry?

And the only way to feed him is to sleep with a man for a little bit of money in his daddy's home. Where's a smoking rock now, in and out of lockdown, I ain't got a job now. So for you, this is just a good time. But for me, this is what I call life. I didn't record it. Damn it. City high, right? City high. They are like a two-hit wonder.

Okay. I am really excited to get into this and I want to make this very conversational. But, Lindsay, I think you're really funny dating advice. Thank you. So here's not just funny, really solid. No, really solid. When she died? When should you define the relationship?

Never. Never. Okay. Okay. So what would you do? We're going to pitch dating scenarios to you. Yes, I'm so excited. I'm really excited about this one because it's an experience that I had, and I'll tell you what I did, but I have very strong feelings about this.

Yeah. Okay. First date with a guy, he picks a time and a place, say on a Tuesday. He picks time and location. You're going to meet Thursday at 8.30 p.m. He does not confirm day of. Do you go on the date? No.

Do you text him at all on Thursday? No. So you would never confirm and you would not show up? I, this is hard. So I wouldn't confirm. I would wait. And then, yeah, and then if he didn't say anything, I probably wouldn't show up. What's the level of confirmation in the beginning?

So this is the first date. First date. I don't know. You meet him in person. Sure. Or whatever, date you up, whatever. Yeah. The situation I'm talking about, I mess somebody in person, but it doesn't matter.

Anyway. It doesn't matter. Tuesday, he says, let's meet at Corner Bistro at 730 on Thursday night. Thursday rolls around, you don't hear from the person, not one word. Are you confirming and are you going? No and no. What did you do? I think I'm still going to go.

Hopefully it's close to my house. Hopefully I worked that right where it's in the neighborhood. But I don't know because sometimes a lot of guys, like, they're busy. They live by their calendar, you know, like maybe they didn't know. And they were like, oh, God, I got the calendar. like 20 minutes before. Even at 4 o'clock, you don't get the... It's very weird.

It hasn't happened to me. I'm looking forward to seeing you. This is what I would do. And I might have been in the situation before, but I don't fully remember. I would send a text... When's the date? Seven. I would send a text at like six and be like assuming tonight's a no-go.

Like, let me know if you want to reschedule next week. Okay. Or haven't heard from you. So doing X, Y, and Z, let me know about next week. You know what I mean? But something confident, not like, Are we on? Okay.

You need me there. I like that. But I would be like already decided it's not happening essentially. Like that's the message I would say. But like if you want to make it happen again, let me know, you know. But then I can see a guy being like, what? Why are you bailing on our date? Well, then if, if so I would be like, the first thing I would say is like assuming we're not on for tonight.

Or I would say I made other plans because I didn't hear from you. like, well, I wouldn't, I would not want to say any of that, though. They would have to be texting me first. But if in this weird situation where I did reach out first and say that, and then they were like, wait, what? I'm on my way. I'd be like, oh, well, you should have told me an hour ago. Let me see if I can still make it work.

You know what I mean? Yeah. No, I hear you. I mean, it's honestly, it's really a bizarre situation. Like I went out with a guy, younger guy, but like he would maybe, he would, plan so far in advance. Not so far, but like a week. Like maybe it's a Thursday and he's like, what are you doing next Thursday? Let's me 8 o'clock, whatever, corner be sure, let's say. And like he, we didn't text all

the time so he may not even confirm until the day of, like a week would go by, but I still just had confidence that he like had it in his calendar. But like he still did the day of. It's very bizarre. I can, but I can still see a situation in which a guy like lives and dies by his calendar. But day of what time? I want to hear by. After a clock. I want to hear by four o'clock. I'm looking forward to seeing you later. Yeah, me too.

Absolutely. Ideal time is like one. Right. I just, and that goes for every person I have plans with always. That goes for you two. That goes for my parents. I want somebody the day of to be like,

hey, so I'll see you later, especially if I don't know the person. Because like if I'm good friends with somebody, if Ashley and I make plans, I know you're showing up. I know we've had plans a thousand other times. This is a stranger.

This is a stranger. Like, I know my mom is not going to ghost me on dinner. But like, total stranger. So I did have this scenario happen. And I didn't go. And I heard from him like five minutes before. He was like, hey, I'll be like five minutes late. And I was like, oh, I'm at home. And what did he say? He said, he apologized and he said it was his fault and he should have confirmed. And I was like, okay. And I live. I did go out again. I did go out with him again. And I will say it was a very bad date. I thought he was an incredibly

inconsiderate person. And I think that this was an extension of that complete disregard for somebody else's time. I think you're absolutely right. And I think that I've seen that happen before on dates to friends of mine where guys have been rude about time and they've ended up being rude people. My thing is though, like I guess I'd like them to address it since like normal behavior is a confirmation. A friend of mine was just about this guy, he was like, let's go out on this specific night. They didn't set a time or place. And she didn't hear from him until like 6.30. And I was like, I just feel like I know this is a decent guy because it's a guy I introduced her to. And I was like, I bet he's just, like, caught up at work.

I bet it was, like, one of those things of, like, you're supposed to be out of a meeting at five. It's 6.30. You're like, oh, shit. And sure enough, he, like, addressed it. Like, that's a thing. And that's definitely possible. Because life happens, and I think, but it's weird that, like, anyone thinks it's normal. Right.

Like, not. No, that, I mean, I think that, like, it's hard. I see it, like, from every angle. But I think as a woman, it is 100% the man's responsibility to confirm if he is the one that instigated that date. he has to. Yeah. He has to. So let's just say bad behavior extends into all parts.

And like, duh, guys, aren't you trying to woo this girl? Every girl wants to hear, like, looking forward to you later. Right. Whatever. It's just like, if a guy's not texting you until after 630 and it's not someone we know is a good guy, he doesn't respect you and he doesn't respect your time. Totally. And that's not the guy for me.

Yeah. Okay. Third date with a guy. You got out once. Great. Got on twice. your third date, then he tells you as a kid. It does not come up until now.

How old is the kid? Does it matter? Three or four. It kind of does because I want to like add to the family. You know what I'm saying? I want to then have my own kids with him maybe. I guess the issue for me is that they've hidden a giant part of their life for me. I don't think they've hidden it.

I actually am very compassionate about this. I would be okay with it. Okay. I feel like it's really hard for people who have, who are single parents to know when to share that information. Similarly, really hard for people who have lost a parent. Those are the kinds of things that don't necessarily come out until date two or date three. And that is a trust thing.

And that's something that they are showing you that they now trust you. You know what I mean? So instead of, you know, why didn't you tell me up front, which is fair too. Yeah. It's more like, listen, this person is dealing with this. It's clearly a big, you know, either insecurity or elephant in the room, whatever it is for them to have to deal with. So I would just be a little bit compassionate about it. In an ideal situation, they would tell me up front.

But maybe they were nervous that, you know, it would, maybe they've done the telling up front and girls have run away. Yeah. Okay. So they want you to basically like them before you make a little. The same way girls want to be liked a little before they give up sex, you know. Yeah, I guess I see it both ways. I guess it would depend on how the date went and how deep into different. Like, if they told me they had a kid and then I start remembering scenarios where they clearly left the kid out of the story.

That's the thing. Like, I'd be like, you had to purposely withhold this information. I think you're right. Like, I'd kind of replay the conversations a little bit. Like, they had to actively leave this out, I guess. Because, like, isn't the kid, like, a huge part of their life? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think that one's tough because you don't know why they're not.

Maybe they had a bad experience. Okay. Maybe they were with someone who hated their kid. But I like that you take a compassionate view because I think so much we're like, don't date that guy. I think it's hard. I'm not even saying that. I'm just, I'm like, you know.

Here's an interesting scenario we got. You go on a date with a guy, first date. You get there, you have a drink, and he says, I invited, I invited some friends to come meet me. I hope you don't mind. How do you feel about this? That it wasn't overtly explained to you that this was a group activity, which, which it's fine. Group activities are fine.

Meaning your date was a group activity or afterwards? The date became like you meet somebody for one drink, you think it's like a one-on-one thing. And then somebody's like, I invited some friends. And it was not made clear to you ahead of time. I think that person's just socially awkward. Like, they just don't have a good sense of like what to do. And either that or they didn't think the date was going well and they thought that inviting people would be like a good buffer. but either way that guy's like cowardy type person for doing that and should have just been like,

hey, do you mind if I invite a few of my friends? They live down the street. I'm sure you would have been like, yeah, that's fine. Right, maybe I like your friends more than you. Yeah, exactly. I just, I don't like anything being sprung on me. I don't like any tests. Like, I'll go on a group date.

I'll go out with people. I mean, it was like the sex and you said like a group friend, a couple of friends. I'm thinking of like the sex in the city. Like, I mean, we should all over it in our episode, but like the carrion big where he was like, I brought a friend. And she was like, wait, which episode was that? The very first date. Karen Big's very first date.

Who did he bring? A dude friend. Like, he was like, hey, it was out with my buddy or whatever. He was having a hard time. Wasn't he like going through divorce or some bullshit? Yeah, he was like my friend. And she was like, you know what? I'm just going to let you guys have a boy's saying.

I was like, fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. It's so disrespectful. That's just a perfect example of how big was just not a good guy. It's our number one episode. I love him so much, but he just like, no one. with respect for themselves would accept that behavior.

Never one episode. Okay. Should we wrap up? Okay. Lindsay, where do you want to tell people to find you? Obviously, we met at Acme. Yes. We met at Acme on Instagram. My podcast is called We Met at Acme and my personal Instagram is Linz Metz with Ziz.

My food blog is Don't Expect Salads. And if you need social media help, my social. media company is Lindsay's lunchbox. Wow. Wow. You nailed it. And really, we didn't even say this, is we met at Acme, just like a date reference. Like, that's where you would go on dates. So we met at Acme is a reference to a bar on the lower east side where I did meet a few people that I ended up dating. None of which worked out, but we met at Acme. Okay, perfect. Is the chef at Acme still that hot guy? He's now the chef at Bistro Leo and he's still hot. He, that's the guy? Yes. Oh my God. I met. him, Mr. Oluo didn't realize it was the same guy. I don't think I was with you. And I actually might

go there again tonight. So maybe we should go and say hi to him. He's very cute. Very. Anyways, uh, congrats to you on being such a baller and such a good example for women and having all of these different businesses going on. And us too. So follow us on a Girl's Gotty podcast on Instagram. And, um, yeah, you guys can find the merch on the website, follow all our social. We announce all the stuff we're doing. And, And we will see you guys next week. Thanks, guys. Have a good week.