Girls Gotta Eat - Stand Up for What's Right and Send Nudes in the Morning feat. Rachel Lindsay

Episode Date: January 31, 2022

We are so honored to be joined by the one-and-only Rachel Lindsay -- author, podcaster, media personality, attorney, and former Bachelorette. Rachel doesn't hold back as we discuss her sexual awakening after growing up in a strict, religious family, the challenges and outside judgements of her interracial relationship, her marriage being long-distance for a period of time (and how they kept it spicy), speaking out against the Bachelor franchise, and which Bachelor she wanted to sleep with but didn't. Before Rachel joins us, we're discussing Rayna's breast reduction, Ashley's bush dilemma, and Azul's new name. Enjoy! Follow Rachel on Instagram @TheRachLindsay, and check out her book Miss Me with That. Follow us @GirlsGottaEatPodcast, Ashley @AshHess, and Rayna @Rayna.Greenberg. Visit our website for tour dates and tickets! Thank you to our partners this week: Jiminy's: To learn more and save 20% on your first purchase, go to jiminys.com/gge and use code GGE20 at checkout. Bev: Get 20% off your first Bev wine purchase + free shipping at drinkbev.com/gge or code GGE at checkout. Allform: To find your perfect sofa and get 20% off all orders, go to allform.com/gge. Nutrafol: Get 15% off your first month's subscription plus free shipping at nutrafol.com/gge. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And once I stripped my mindset of that thinking, which was a sharp left turn to go on The Bachelor, which I don't recommend. You know, I mean, it worked out for me, but I'm just saying. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Raina's new titty. It's new titty's week. Oh, my God. Ashley saw them. She came with me to reveal them.

We're going to talk it all about. But are you loving them? I know. Like, I have a, I mean, I want to talk about the first look. But we have to. We did a first look. I can't believe. I still feel like the honor that was bestowed upon me. Who else was going to come to me? I didn't know they were going to let me see them like that.

I don't think you, have I seen more than you have? Um, we'll get to, we'll get to it. We're giving too much away. No, I see them every day now. I take photos every day. Okay, but, right, obviously, you've sent me a few, but you weren't looking. I saw them, I saw them in full before you did. Yeah, I was too scared. Yeah. Surgery stuff grosses me out. They look beautiful. We'll talk about it. We have no housekeeping this week. The merch is down. We had to fire our merch company. We're going to, we're going to, uh, we're going back to the old ways. Well, well, I have a lot to say. We'll save it for when we relaunch, but we're going to spill the tea. I don't care. I don't care either. I said it. I said what I said. And we'll talk about why.

Well, you know what? Well, wait, we are going to relaunch. So no merch right now. Tickets to maybe a handful left in, um, probably not even in San Francisco. Maybe there's like a few left in L.A., a few left in the D.C. Late Show. And then there's going to be tickets in Kansas. city, St. Louis, Detroit, Indianapolis, and Pittsburgh. Portland show number two. We still have like a hundred tickets back. Oh, right, we haven't even mentioned that.

I haven't even dragged them in weeks. But they listened. They listened. They showed up. All right. They came to play. And Toronto, we're still coming there. It's just, we listen.

We know this, the country shut down. I know. The country. We have the date, but we just feel we can't release it because we can't sell the ticket. Just whatever. We just hope we can, that we'll get there. Yeah.

So we'll see you the soonest in D.C. grab those last couple tickets, show is going to be insane. Yeah. And look for all brand new March in a couple weeks. We'll keep you guys abreast. You can always get those updates. GirlsGuttypockets.com, send it for the newsletter. We'll email you guys all the new stuff.

Yes. Let's talk about it. How are you feeling? I feel amazing. So I am six days post surgery. If you're new here, Rain, I go to breast reduction. If you're new here, I had like triple D-sized boobs my whole life, starting the time I was like 12.

And I got a breast reduction last Tuesday. I talked about it a lot in the show. For years, I talked about it and sort of mulling over the decision to do it. You guys were so wonderful sharing all of your experiences, and it really helped me to feel a lot more comfortable. Hundreds and hundreds of messages women, they all echoed the exact same sentence, which is this is the best decision I've ever made.

And so many women I didn't even know that we know that got them. I know. I was talking, like I said, we were talking with this woman, Isabelle. She was saying she did, but like 10 years ago and it was so much worse. And you have it so easy. So if you guys are listening, we're recording Monday the 24th.

Like you got it last Tuesday. Like we're six days, seven days out and you're just fine. Yeah, I'm doing great. I feel really great. I feel mentally really great. So for those who asked, the reason I did it was not physical at all. I was no physical pain. It was just strictly emotional.

I was sick of this being the main identifier the people used about me is that girl with the huge tits. I was just sick of the look. I was just ready for something new. I spent a lot of time researching my doctor, a lot of time writing, crying, soul searching. And I walked into the surgery, my first surgery ever, like, with no nervousness whatsoever. I felt like really confident, really excited.

I took a car up to Mount Santa Hospital, like, 5.30 in the morning on Tuesday. And I just felt like so ready. Everybody was, like, so nice. They prep me for it. I just didn't feel nervous. Good. I've never had surgery before. I mean, for you guys haven't had surgery, they just stick a needle in your arm.

They're like, they ask you a question. You're like, I don't know. Do you remember the question? She said you're going to feel like you had a little glass of wine What's your favorite kind of wine? And I woke up four and a half hours later. I love that. Okay.

We need to do we need to crowdsource these questions. I love this question. So they asked me where do you want to go? On a trip. On a trip. And I said, Greece. And then I woke up with a new nose. It was just like, and we're going to Greece.

But it's like I, they might talk to you even more, but you get one question and you're out. I mean, it feels so good. You're like, oh my God. Like, I don't do like hard drugs. But that little second, you're like, maybe I should. When you're like drifting off with the anesthesia. It feels so good. I thought no nervousness because I just, the anesthesiologist came in.

The nurses came in. The nurses listened to the podcast. They're so wonderful. So shout out to the people that really took such good care of me. You're in this giant bright room. And I just, you know, I went my titties out and I woke up with new ones. Yes. This is so easy.

Can't recommend surgery. And I, the way they look now, I wish I would die sooner. But I think I waited until the time where I could afford to pick the person that I really wanted. I felt really ready to do it. And in terms of just the, so you guys know, I went from like a triple D probably down to a C cup. They're still a little swollen, but they look great. I got like a huge lift. It's different than breast implants. It's less painful in terms of recovery. I mean, we were, I saw you the next day. We were just talking shit. You were late on the couch. I mean, you seemed a little like low energy, but yeah, you asked me if I still had meatballs and I just never answered the question.

Okay. Well, speaking of meatballs, I have something to say about you getting surgery. Okay. I need to make a statement to remind people that Raina has other close friends than me because people were just not happy that I wasn't there like I was like so you actually you were out of town but you said to me before the surgery I'll come back if you want me to I'll come to that. The offer was on the table. I told you I didn't care. Yeah I was like whatever you need I'll be there. We also didn't know if it was going to be that Tuesday or Wednesday and we were like just stay in California. I was like bitch I'm coming back. So I was coming back when you were getting it done. But Emily is the person that picked you up and I just need to read the text between us. I have never found.

felt more like I had a like a significant other or a kid, honestly. So I got it Tuesday, 1040 a.m. Hi, I just got a call for me and his doctor. He said, surgery went great and she's now in the recovery room. Smiley face. I was like, oh my God, amazing. Tuesday 2.19 p.m. Still waiting on her, but she should be coming on any minute. I said, thanks for the upstate. On the way home. Like, is she just really get me? I said, I'm so glad is she doing okay, just really groggy. And she said, groggy but good. Try not to try not to throw up. She says, L.O.L. and I just did like the fingers crossed emoji and then we started texting on Pelleton the next day.

I said, who wants a David Bowie collab? Nobody. But anyway, so all day, I just kept having to tell you stuff and it was so difficult. I was like, I don't want her to wake up with a bunch of like text or DMs. And like, as soon as I realized you were lucid, I was like, I have so much to tell you. You sent me that meme with the kid with like the forehead vein popping out and you were like, I just want to tell you everything.

Yeah, I woke up to like hundreds of texts. I've never felt so loved in my entire life. Like every person that you and I have ever met, I have ever met in my life, like really came out of the woodwork to just make sure that I was okay. It was really nice. So the pain was not as bad as I thought it would be. I was on, obviously, really nauseous from the anesthesia. I took painkillers in the hospital, but I never took another painkiller after that. I was on Tylenol for three days and that was it. I didn't need it. I know everybody's body is different. People tell me that an IUD is like the worst thing

they've ever experienced. I barely felt it go in. So I have different pain receptors and other people. But yeah, I was able to be like up. I could buy four days in. I was. able to like do my dishes. I've been laying down a lot, but it's been a really nice recovery. It's crazy just to watch you. You're just moving around. It's just, you got a lot of mobility.

Yeah, I do. I didn't shower for like four days, five days. That's your dream. It's just like amazing for me. The surgery was Tuesday. The only time I left the house for a full week was when you and I went to the doctor and did the reveal. But yeah, the pain wasn't bad.

Sleeping on my back was kind of uncomfortable. I'm just like I'm over the moon. I'm so happy I did it. I feel like the recovery was really comfortable. people really turned out to help me and send food and flowers. And I had a lot of people just like, you had a very funny joke about how many people visited me. But also the reason what I've jogged my memory about Emily picking you up is Emily made you

these meatballs. And listen, I was not the right person to do this. Emily was the right person to do this. She like picked you up. And then what, she made meatballs in your home while you were like resting. She's the dream. She's a dream girl. I would date Emily.

She just comes over. She starts whipping up meatballs in your home. So, so, okay. The person that you want to pick you up at the hospital is somebody that you want, you would have let be your medical proxy that could ask all the right questions. So that's absolutely you and absolutely Emily and lots of my friends. My friends are smart. I trust them all to handle everything.

But Emily's so neurotic and so nurturing. Like she had a list of everybody. She had to text. She texted you, Melanie, my brother, my family. She's so perfect for it. Yes, she was very, I was like half alive fighting her like, please don't make meatballs. I woke up and she'd group texted a bunch of people. Does anybody know where Raina keeps her step ladder at a cutting board?

She went to Westside Market, got meat. I was just in and out of it all day, but she's really great. It feels nice to just have so many friends that would pick you up from the hospital. You came over the next day. You were the only person that didn't bring me food, thank God. You know, I don't like to waste, and I just knew you had so much. And I was like, food is nothing. I was thinking of getting you something at milk bar, but it was close for whatever reason.

I was like, I just know she has so much fucking food, so much all the things. Yeah, and I have the grubhab app, you know? Right, exactly. So it was great. came over. They helped me with anything I needed, but the recovery's not been bad, and we did the reveal on Friday. I'm just, I'm so happy with how my boobs look. I've, like,

looked at them every single day. The biggest problem or, you know, thing I thought I'd regret is the, is the scarring, and I haven't seen it yet, but honestly, I don't care, because I'm so thrilled with how great my breasts look, how high and tight they look, how good they're going to look in clothing. I mean, they're still pretty big. I went from, like, a triple

D to like a C, but they're pretty huge. So, like, my take on it, my biggest fear, I guess, was that you, they would be too small. And you'd be like, I am a woman with large breasts. I like that about myself. Yes, I didn't like them to be so huge and so defining of my character. But I was just so worried that they were going to go small.

I've seen a few women that just, I mean, I think their decision was to go so much smaller. And I just didn't know if that was the norm. Because then you hear people say, well, why would I get a breast reduction and still have big breasts? It's like, well, because you still, because you still have a lot of breasts to get rid of and still have them be large. and yours, they look so incredible. Like, they're just like a perfect shape, they're higher, but they're big.

They're big. I actually woke up and I looked down and I was like, did he take any out? Like, they're big and they will get smaller. But I took a photo, I mean, I take photos of my tits every day, but I took a photo the night before. Every day you should take one, yes. Every day I'm taking them.

I'm using different emojis. I'm seeing how many circular emojis I can find to put over my nipples. But every, the night before I took a picture of them. And comparison, I mean, the lift is so, I've never had saggy tits and the shape of my breast is great. But there is so much less than there used to be. And it's so high.

I feel like when we were sitting in the doctor's office, you were like, they're still really big. And I feel like your voice was like, are they supposed to be this big? And he was like, let's pull up here before, you know, and like to remind you of like how much lower they looked, no offense. You know, but like, fine. They're enormous. Sorry.

Let me, how much higher they look now. And yeah, I mean, I am just so happy. And then I'm so happy for you. And they're still like 20% swollen. Like they'll come down about like 20% more. Yeah. they'll come down more. I mean, that didn't stop me from spending $800 on new bras this weekend. I bought my first bralet. I was so excited. Oh my God. I love that.

Everything I've ever bought is Underwire. So I just, I bought a ton of stuff to just see. Also, if you guys own bra companies, bathing suit companies, send it. Oh, God. Watch out. I'm ready for it. Send some for Ashley too. You know, I'm not being selfish. Send some for her too. But overall, it's been a great experience. I feel very taking care by the doctor and my friends and the recovery has been great. I know everybody is different. Most people said they were in pretty bad shape for about a week. I was not. I was in pretty fucked up shape for like 24 hours. I mean, that's the, everybody's like so different. Everybody's body is so different recovery, pain tolerance, like all those things. Your doctor's important. I mean, can't recommend the best

of the best enough. Like when it comes to this kind of stuff. I know people have budget constraints and things like that, but you really did go to like the best person you could find and that came so highly recommended. But yeah, I was, I was joking that like I ended up kind of having this like fun weekend. I bounced around. I went out a lot and was just, Raina was like, I'm so jealous. She was the best weekend. But I was like, you had the best weekend. Everybody just came to see you. Like I was like, it was like, it was like, someone died. Like it was so people kept coming over to like, like, Shiba. Yeah. Is that what it is? Yeah. You bring like the gifts and then, you know, come pay your respects.

Like that's what it was like. I was getting notifications from Drizley, which is a alcohol delivery app here saying like so-and-so wants to send you alcohol, schedule the delivery. Flowers came out of Titty cake, which is so great. Yeah. It was just wonderful. all my neighbors came over, took my trash out for me. I had a great time. It seemed like you had a good weekend. I didn't have a good weekend. My weekend on my back.

So it's great. I'm thrilled. I'll continue to give you guys updates on what I'm doing for like maintenance and oils and silicone strips and all that shit. But I'm very happy for people who asked. So I didn't have a crazy huge breast reduction like some people do. So I didn't need drains. When do you, like why would you have drains?

Because it's so drastic or something? Um, there's a couple different, like, methods of doing breast reduction. So I also did not, I did, most people have, um, they, they have a scar straight across the bottom of their breast. I don't have that. Yeah. So I don't know if that sort of like leads to it. I just have the scar straight down for my nipple. Um, I asked the doctor, he said it's just different methods of doing it. Um, so I did not have to have drains. I never took painkillers at all. Um, and then a lot of people, the most shocking question that literally everyone asked me never occurred to me for one second is what do they do with all the stuff they take out? You told me somebody asked you. Yeah. Someone I used to date asked me. Yeah. It is men asked. No women asked me actually. Well, you know, and he said he was like, oh, he phrased it.

I was like, ugh, but then I kind of laughed. It was like an eye roll with a laugh. He said, what do they do with all the excess titty meat? And I go, I asked you and you go, I don't know. And so I wrote back to him. I didn't even tell you this part. I wrote back to him and I said, your guess is as good as mine. And he wrote dibs.

Yeah, he's just a guy that's always like, boobies, like whatever. Like, but I mean, it's like anything else when they do lipo. I mean, there's a bunch of just like body parts laying around the hospital. They probably all go in some place. I don't really want to know. It's just, I mean, I didn't get that much taken out. But yeah, people have tumors vacuumed out, liposectional, it's disgusting shit. Yeah, a lot of people ask so I got to like take it home in a jar.

I don't want that kind of. I don't even want to know what that looks like. I don't want to know details of stuff. Like I think about some of the surgeries have had. I'm like, I don't even want to know what they do, how they do it. Just I want the finished product. I didn't even want to look at my boobs when they first took the bandages off. I made you look first.

I cannot see blood. I don't want to see stitching. I don't want to see any of it. It's gross. I was so surprised you just turned around. I was like, oh my God, they're here. Like, I didn't know I was going to get to see him like that. I didn't know if he was, if they were coming out that day.

Like I didn't know. He was like a bandage changing or, you know, whatever. So it was like our second plastic surgery reveal together. So exciting for best friends. Yes. So Ashley saw them can confirm. They look great. I'm very happy.

And, you know, thank you guys for all your sport and your stories and everything. It really did make it less scary and thank you for everybody who checked in on me. It's been really great. I'm super excited that I did it. I'm so glad you did. So anyways, what we did not cover last week was we were in the car on the way to Dallas

in our intro last week and we did do a show in Dallas just want to acknowledge it was so much fun. Maybe the most chaotic show we ever had. Insane. What the fuck happened with that show? I was like, what is going on? What is actually happening?

It's the least like stand-up material I've ever written for a show personally. I was just like, we don't do that anymore. We just fucking wild. We can't roll with it. People just, I mean, Texas is like this wild animal of a state. Like, it's just, they're out of control.

Like, it's in the best way, you know, but it's just like, we knew that. I mean, our first, we were always like, Texas, like, were these, like, northern, like, liberal women, like, the first time we went to Dallas. And it was, like, amazing. Like, they're just, also our audience. Like, I love them so much.

I think the thing, that we said something about some guy and that this woman had written in about her guy friend. We brought him up on stage and she said something, he's not a Trump, he's not a Trump or something. The whole audience, that was the biggest pop of the night. The whole audience like erupted in cheers. And I was like, it almost like brought a tear to my eye because it's like red state and all this shit that Texas deals with.

You know, whatever. We don't need to go down that row. But I mean, our audience is incredible in all of the states. But they're just so wonderful. We brought all these dudes up on stage and they were just like dapping it up. They were like best buddies. I was like, what is going on in Texas? High-fiving.

High-fiving each other. It's probably... It's probably... It's probably... It's the most men we've probably ever had in a show. Which we loved.

So many of you were bringing your boyfriends, your boyfriend's brothers. Yeah. And then you did kind of meet somebody that I love. He came with a friend of ours that we do some work with

and you guys get it off. Yeah, he walked into the room into the green room and I was like, oh, he's cute. What's up? And, you know, Ashley and I only meet guys on the road. So it tracked. And then after the show,

which, after the show, we went out. You know, I almost never go out after shows, but my superpower is that if there's a guy I'm attracted to, I'll go out literally all night long. Otherwise, I'll go to bed at 10.30. So we had a great time. And we went out and hit it off. It was fun. He texted me the day after the breast reduction, the day of the breast reduction. I was like, it's a weird conversation. I was somebody that you just met. Well, I love him for you. He is a great career. And I saved this little thing that I just wanted you to be able to remember him by. I found this in the green room after the show.

I love that you have his business card. I've not seen a business card in so long. Why did he not hire you? I was like getting all my stuff packed from the green room and I saw his business card sitting there. I was like, I cannot wait to present this to Rana on the podcast. It's going to be so fucking funny. I love that he just like left it behind just in case we didn't believe what he did for a living. And I was like, and having a job is not a prequalifier for people I date.

This is, I can't stop. I'm like holding on. out of it's scary. It's so funny. Something about a business card is funny. It is so funny. He left it behind. He just,

like, he walked into the green room with our friend and they'd been like drinking and then like all the cheerleaders were there. And then like it was just like chaos and fun. And then we went out and like at what point did he take out the business car? I don't know. I found it so funny.

I've been holding on to it for two weeks. I brought it to California. It has its own page on your notebook. Well, I've been, I've hit it in the notebook so you wouldn't seal it. But I've been, this has been all.

over the world at this point. I've been traveling with it. So I'm glad that you saved this because he told me what he did and I wasn't sure that that was a real job. So I'm glad that we had a piece of paper. Yes. I like, the thing I like about him the most for you is that he has a great career. Change of pace. He works in professional sports,

we'll just say it. It's great. I was thinking of that really quick. You mentioned the cheerleaders. We had the sidekicks dancers open the show. They were so cute, so wonderful. The whole squad. They cheer for the soccer team there. And they were great. Unbelieved. 16 of them. They just couldn't have been cooler, hotter.

Yeah, look them up. The sidekicks dancers, they were so great. Yeah, so thank you to them. So we'll keep you guys updated if I start dating somebody in Dallas. Well, speaking to Dallas, our guest today. Oh, yeah. Rachel Lindsay. So she's from there originally.

She's from Dallas, yes. You guys, what an honor. What a treat. Yes, we'll get to it. We're not. We still have somewhere to cover in this intro. But anyway, you've seen that she's our guest today. And I'm just, she's one of the, one of my favorite people we've

interviewed. Like, you know, I'm such a stand. I just adore her. I think she's the best person to ever come out of the Bachelor franchise. And I'm so glad we got to interview her. She really was like such a treat. And I mean, you guys know if you're a long-time listener to the show. We don't do a lot of like big celebrity interviews, reality TV people, because a lot of those people are like super media trained. And she was just phenomenal. So you guys are going to love it. I know. I just don't even think of her like that anymore. You know, I mean, now she's not no longer like with within the bachelor. But like she's an author. She's a speaker. She's just this like inspirational all-around person. But yeah, Dallas was just incredible. I left the next morning and went to

Palm Springs and hung out with some friends there. It was just nice to get out of the cold. And as we record, I'm supposed to be going to Miami this weekend, but it does not look like beach weather. Well, you guys know this family cancels Miami trips. That's all we do is going to cancel Miami trips. But I'm just bummed about it. But I am dealing with the struggle that I'm always dealing with is the length of my pussy hair. And again, and. And, and. And, and. And, and. And, Am I, can I get a wax or a sugaring or is it long enough? I deal with this all the time because I've ordered a bunch of new bikinis. So I want to be hairless down there.

But it's like, if you talked about this before, why don't you get laser? Is it just in case, like the styles change and you change in mind? Yes, like a couple things. Okay, why don't you laser a landing strip? Just in case like the apocalypse happens and I need to have it. Like, our style's going to change. Like, okay, Bella, don't tell me what you do with yours.

I don't want to know. But what did kids do these days? By kids, I mean like 20-year-old. Are we still doing, are we doing full bush? No, no, full, like, wax. Full bear. Okay. I mean, yes, of course.

Like, I just, I like the option that it's there. Like, I would, what if I do end up with, not that I'm, not that I, my, my vagina is for me and how it looks is for me. You know, I'm not, it's not about some sort of like beauty standards. It's a comfort level. I don't like care down there. And, but like, what if I do end up with some guy and he's like, I have this fantasy of this big bush? Like, I would love to grow that out for him. I like being able to switch it up.

you know I like having a full bush sometimes, like have no bush sometimes. I like a landing strip sometimes. You just want to be able to change it up sometimes. I know. I was just curious. People just don't believe like that I'm going still and like enduring that pain, you know, once a month or whatever it is. I don't love it.

I don't, I feel like this is one of the things I just, it's annoying about being a woman. I don't really, there's no great answer. People say sometimes like, why don't you just laser your bikini line. Yeah. And I'm like, because I don't want to get laser and still have to go get wax. You know what I mean? Like that defeats the purpose. worst of both worlds.

Yes, it's the worst of both worlds, but I see what they're saying where, like, then you never have to worry about it poking out. You're always ready for the beach. But still, to have to do both, like, that's too much.

I mean, what did people do in the 70s? They were just walking around with the ton of hair, just sticking out of their bathing suit. I remember my mom, like, calling me in and, like,

being like, can you see my hair out of the sides of my bathing suit? And it never occurred anybody. And I was like, I hate this. Like, I, you're the pube checker?

I would not be your daughter. Like, can I leave this family? Dad do it. I guess he was just at work. He sees it naked all the time. He can't do it. You have to do it. I don't know.

I just remember this moment of my mom just being like, Ashley, can you come in here for a second and like ask me if hair was poking out the sides of her bathing suit? And I was like, what? Like, can I just? Oh my God. It never occurred to people in like the 70s and 80s to just like shave it. The answer was after the daughter.

I think they were. I mean, but like the whole bikini grew. rooming area is still fairly new, I think. I first full, full shaved when I was maybe 15. That feels like early. I mean, I remember, I mean, I'm trying. I guess I was doing something in high school, but freshman year in college, I mean, I went to school in the South and all these girls on our hall, most of them from the South, had never even attempted anything down there. And like, some of us girls from the North were like, hey, you can shave your pussy, you know. like, so they all went in together.

Like we, my hall freshman year was a, like, we had communal bathrooms. It was a bush off. But like, they were all went in and were like talking to each other doing it. I just went in and it was like hanging out listening. It was very, it was a really funny bonding moment for us.

Like, we're all still friends. This is like an amazing female like, right of passage. It's hysterical. I mean, I just had to like do it on the phone when I was talking to my boyfriend at 12 o'clock at night when I was 15.

Yeah, it was like someone, we were, I was reminded of that recently how like, everyone this like, very beginning of freshman year, a bunch of girls, like,

did that for the first time, like in Johnstone at Clemson. I think they're like not, those dorms aren't there anymore. Anyway, that's just, we'll see. I may or may not make it to Miami. I don't know. One time I'd like you to cancel a trip that you played. I was trying to get you to push it to the following weekend so I can come. I feel like I'm not ready to be in like very public places and certainly not travel

or like, like I say that I'm fine and I am fine to get around, but I would not like pick up luggage. Oh, right. Picking up luggage. Yeah. And I wouldn't be in like a crowded bar in the same. date that I'm in until I get the stitches out. Oh, I have one more thing to tell you.

Okay. So a listener or someone that follows me, she DM me and she was like, I'm just catching up in your podcast. Like she wasn't caught up. She was listening to an older episode and she was like, I'm sure I'm not the first person to tell you this, but do you realize you and Beyonce both have children of the name Blue. And I was like, oh my God.

Like Blue Ivy and Azul never thought of it. How did none of you ever think of that? I know. I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed for our listeners. So I changed Azul's name. to Heedra Azul, which is blue ivy in Spanish. Carter Heseltine.

Yes. Heedra Azul, Carter Nulls, Heseltine. And this girl was so funny and she was like, it works perfectly with her Babel partnership. I was like, I love this girl. This is so, oh my God, she brought a sponsor in a bit. It's funny. Anyway, guys, use Babel. I do want to say two things before we get into it.

There's a couple things we reference in the episode. Yes. Oh, good. I'm glad you didn't forget. So one thing. that we do talk about on the episode is a New York Magazine article that Rachel Lindsay wrote. It's called Oops I Blew Up the Bachelorette. Well, they titled it that.

They titled at that. She wrote an article for New York Mag. It's phenomenal. We recommend you read it. So you know, you don't have to really read it to know what we're talking about. But we referenced that and the clickbait title. And then there was a Hannah Brown incident that she also references in the interview later. Yes.

So we do, this comes up a lot. And if you guys weren't aware, this was in 2020, Hannah Brown, former, Bachelorette, uh, was singing, like doing an Instagram or TikTok or some video. And with, I guess the song had the N-worded and she said it or she was in a live, right? Whatever, whatever the details are. That's what happened. And then people, you know, Rachel talks about it, but they kind of, people were like wanting her to address it. And they're, they're cool. So it's not some like, uh, dramatic situation. But that's when we interviewed her, just, we just kept saying the Hannah Brown thing. And some of you guys may be like, what, what, what is that? So we're telling you.

Yeah. Um, that's all that's all. That's all. the Cliffs notes you guys need to know. And Rachel's, I mean, X from the show, Peter, is my number one of the whole show. What a hottie. I mean, since I would say if you were to be like, who's, who's your biggest crush of the whole show of the last 20 years? That's my guy. I learned this about Ashley this week. And if you guys remember from the very first episode of Girls Got to Eat or The Bachelor. Girls got to eat. Cindy Heseltine said she had a premonition that I was going to end up with a Peter. I know that was four years ago and I'm still single. But a premonition is a premonition.

I don't want to bring it up to Rachel. I don't want to make it weird. But I'm telling you guys. She ran up here. She says something about Peter. But, you know, I, you know, I feel like that. I think that's a fun question to ask people that have watched the show for a long time. Like, who's your number one?

You know, who's your favorite hottest bachelor? Who's your hottest crush? And that is mine. You know that Courtney is my number one villain. Who's your number one guy of the whole show? You know, I just, I haven't watched it the way that you have. So sometimes when we have people from The Bachelor on, I got to rewatch, I got to go back. It's definitely, I'll tell you, it's not.

It's Mike Johnson because that's Ashley's and we're never attracted to the same person. I've dibs on Peter and Mike. Yeah. I'll let you guys know. And Dale. This E-thing came out that Dale was spotted with somebody. Did you see this? Did you see the comments all about was she wearing a backpack?

No, the other 54 was, no one cares. Oh, okay. Some of people were like, Dale spotted with a girl every single day. Dale's always with girls. That is so funny. I was getting tagged every minute with tagged Ash Hess. Was she wearing a backpack? Was she wearing a backpack?

Did she have a backpack on? You guys are so funny. It was, it was giving me life. It's so funny because I was chatting with my girlfriends, like the Palm Springs group about cocktails in cans. And Kate said, it gives me less drinking alone on the sofa vibes if it's in a can. And Emily said, I feel like I can. can gives me more mobility. It was just so funny. Also, before we get into Rachel, I have a text

that just came through. I have to read you. It's so funny. Okay. So you guys remember last week, we talked about Short Zipper King. And this is happening in real time? It's not anything about that. It's just a funny thing. What did you think it was? Short Zipper King? I thought I was Shorter King's friend. No, Short Zipper King's friend. I don't know. He was like, let's go out and get drinks or dinner. And then I was like, sure, that sounds great. And then nothing. So anyway, I'll keep you guys posted. Brandon. my friend from Austin, our friend now, you've met him, but he's a good friend of mine. He was obviously just listening to the podcast and he goes, Zipper King, and then in quotes,

let me slip into something a little more comfortable before I fuck you three times before breakfast and then an asterisk unzips one knee. You know, wait, you guys, listen, I met Brandon in the same bed that I met short zipper king. And there's a poolside bed at the same cabana. In the same cabana bed. Also, one of our listeners is so funny. She said, can we please get a diagram? I'm going to drawing of zipper king.

I can't like figure out where all the zippers were. I got dressed either night and I had these jeans. They're great. They're page and they have two zippers. But kind of in an untraditional place and like I couldn't stop laughing. I'm like every time I wear an untraditional zipper from now on, it's all I'm going to think about a short zipper king. I love it.

Okay. Ready. I'm ready. Oh. Oh. Sorry. I am. All right guys.

We are so excited to welcome our guest today. She's an attorney, a media personality, a podcast. and a speaker. She is currently a correspondent for Extra, and she co-hosts The Ringer's Higher Learning Podcast. She is the author of the upcoming book. Miss Me With That. You guys all know her as the star of season 13 of The Bachelorette and one of the franchise's most well-known figures. Please welcome to the show, Rachel Lindsay. Thank you guys so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. We are so excited. We talk about you a lot. Good or bad. Good or bad. Be honest.

so good. Like we, you just come up a lot. Like when things are happening within the franchise, I've always been like, Rachel Lindsay this, Rachel Lindsay that. So everybody already knows that we're such a fan of yours. So we're so glad we can have you on. Thank you. I'm really excited to talk with you guys. I already know this is going to be fun. This is going to be juicy. Oh, the juicer the better. And you have your book right behind you. Congratulations. It's everywhere. It's so. No. But thank you. Thank you. Do you want to tell us a little bit about it? Yeah. So a lot of people are like, miss me with that. Why did you choose that title?

So I chose it because it's something I say in my everyday life. And I wanted you to get that feel from the book. I want it to be more casual. I want you to feel like I'm talking to you as you're reading the book. I wanted people to know that it's going to be me because that's what I say, but it's also going to be sassy, not just professional. I'm stripping away a lot of the image that you see of me of, she's always so put together, she's an attorney, she's a daughter of federal judge.

No, I'm a hot mess. And yes, I'm self-aware now, and I've, you know, like, gone through some things that have made me get to the, to be the person that I am. But I feel like as a bachelorette, sometimes you give this image of perfection, and that's not who we are. Sometimes, yes, some other bacheloretts maybe have been a little bit messy, but mine was like, you know, like, she checks all the boxes. She walks a straight line. No. So a lot of the book is me stumbling through life and making certain mistakes and learning certain lessons that got. me to where I am today. And a lot of it is me challenging some things that I grew up with. You know,

I didn't lose my religion, but I challenged my religion when it comes to sex and maybe some of the things that I was taught. I talk about therapy a lot. I talk about, you know, my place in the black community and how I struggled to fit in in certain crowds because of where I went to school versus the neighborhood that I lived in. So it's just a lot of me that you're going to get. And then constantly through the book, I'm letting you know all the things that you can miss me with, you know? And And that's where my attitude, you know, comes out where I'm like, let me tell you, you can miss me with this situation, this person, this friendship, this, you know, like different things like that. One thing that really stuck out to me when reading the book this morning is you open the book with this sort of like timeline checklist of what you thought your life was going to be. And I think a lot of people can relate to this.

You were like, I'm going to go to college here, I'm going to law school here. I'm going to get married at this age. I'm going to have this many kids by this age. And that like life just doesn't turn out like that. and I think that so many people can just relate to having this checklist and be like, oh, that's not what happened. Right. I mean, how many times when you were coming out of school or even now people are like, what's your five year plan? What's this? I've learned to not do that anymore because when I did start to check off everything on my list, I wasn't happy. I didn't feel fulfilled. I just felt lost. I was like doing all the things I said I was going to do. I'm with the man. I said I was going to be with. Why don't I, why am I not happy? What is it? And then I started to ask my question, like, whose life is it that I'm living? The life I'm supposed to live, the life I always said I would live or the life I really want for myself. So you see me struggle with that throughout the book and even fight that, that gut instinct of this doesn't feel right, but this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

I got chills when you said that, when you said like I have all these things I'm supposed to have that I plan to have, like, why am I not happy? And I really relate to that because, I mean, I built a life in my early 20s. I thought I was supposed to have and I was engaged and I was like, wait, why am I not happy? And I just, I really relate to that. You also, you also, you also, you also change your mind. Like you're a different person at 20 than 25, 25, 30, 30, 35. You know, so I, when people have that, I think goals are great. But the five-year plan is like, I can't even imagine what I would have thought at what would have been at 25 versus 30, you know, and then people find themselves like beholden to it and feeling like a failure if they haven't achieved

the thing, the marriage, the career, the kids, the house, whatever it is. Because don't you feel like it's a generational thing, right? Our parents were doing what they were taught or what was the thinking of the times. You know, you work to survive, where we're of the generation where we're like, we work to be happy. We do things that bring us joy that make us feel fulfilled rather than just solely providing. And once I stripped my mindset of that thinking, which was a sharp left turn to go on The Bachelor, which I don't recommend. You know, I mean, it worked out for me, but I'm just saying, we'll never be on it. We've aged out of even being considered. I don't know. I just bought a new, I just bought new titties last week, okay?

I'm like, okay, let's show those things off because you know we love to do that on a bachelor. Mud wrestling, anyone? You know, the lingerie, boxing, whatever it is. How can we exploit these people? I think that it's just a generational thing of, you know, just to complete the thought of like why we do the things the way that we do. And I think now it's so much more freeing because we don't do that to ourselves.

We don't hold ourselves to those standards. We go out and we make things happen. We create. we invent and it's so much better this way. Yeah, it's like that meme. We've talked about on the show that says I'm so happy I didn't end up with what I thought I wanted. 25-year-old me, I don't want what that girl wanted.

I'm so happy I didn't get that. And you, correct me if I'm wrong about the timeline, but you were engaged to or you thought you were going to marry the person you were with right before you went on the Bachelorette? Yes. Bachelor. Yes. Five years off and on, mostly on,

but like the latter part of my 20s right up until 30s. So those were some quality years. Those were some good years that I lost in that relationship. But I learned so much once I was finally able to break free from it. I thought this was the guy that I was going to marry. He checked off every box that I had. My parents loved him. He's a type of man that I was supposed to be with on paper.

But we had so many issues. And I knew it was wrong. And I knew that I deserved better. and honestly so did he, because I'm going to be honest, I wasn't an angel in the relationship too, and I make confessions in this book of ways that I behaved that I've never publicly said out loud. This is what I want people to see of me. It wasn't just his fault. I had a lot of fault in the relationship too. And it was through therapy that I went, I went to therapy to save this relationship and to impress him, and I came out of therapy saving myself and ending this relationship.

But I was so controlled by it that had he told me, I don't want you to do The Bachelor, I wouldn't have done it. And let me tell you, we wouldn't be together. I wouldn't be sitting here right now. It's wild. And then I talk about what he's currently doing in life. And I don't want to give the book away, but it's something that happened in our relationship. And it relates to how he's living his life right now and who he's living it with, if that gives a hit. Yeah.

I can't wait it to read it. And also, I would have read it, but we literally just got it this morning. That's okay. It's like out this week. No, we always say I handle the mornings and Ashley handles the evenings. So she was up last night doing our episode. But wait, hold on. Come me, Junkvin. Rachel, I think of you as a bachelorette, like you're, you are the star, but whose bachelor were you on? Nick. Everyone, people forget. Nick File. I know. Everyone's like, wait, who were you on? I know. But then it's like Nick's been on it 12 times. So I forget if him is the bachelor or two. So, Okay, great. Yes, Nick. Sorry, I keep interrupting you.

We were like Googling because I was like, how much does Rachel discuss with like sex and everything? And it was like, Rachel never slept with Nick. And I was like, Rachel's never slept with Nick. At least she says she hasn't. But you know I planned to sleep with Nick. There's a story behind that. I was all in. I dressed up as Mrs. Claus because we were in Finland.

Like I bought like this red lingerie. I had this hat. This Miss Claus had. I was like, ooh, are you ready? and I got so wasted, I passed out before we even started. It was the night of you? It was the day of the election. This is all in the book.

It was the day of the election. I stayed up all night watching it. Trump wins. I don't want to make this political. The Finnish people are like, you know, you don't have to go back. We have great seasonal jobs here. They're laughing. They're making fun of us.

I'm on this date and I'm like, did anyone watch last night? And everyone's like, Rachel, don't talk about it. So I just drink and drink. And of course, I'm nervous. It's the fantasy suite. and of course they want you to open up with your feelings. And I just want to have sex. It's been nine weeks.

And then by the time the moment happens, I was not ready. He never saw Mrs. Claus. He saw that penguin onesie that I woke up the next day. And that's all I was wearing. So embarrassing. Also just listen. It's not embarrassing.

Who could have sex with a white man that night, though? Really? Like, you know what I mean? Like, no one. That was not the night for that. I mean, I was just, like, mad at the world. Like, that is a crazy. I'm so glad you shared that with us.

Like, she's like, I almost slept with Nick, but then Trump won and I got wasted. Yeah, I tried. They wanted. I was stressed like, Mrs. Claus. I was so ready. I was like, are you ready, Santa? I had all played out of my head. It was going down.

Because when I was on the show, I used to, we used to, we have a lot of down times. Like, we would drink. We would, I would teach the girls how to twerk. We would be on a wall. We would be on the floor. And I was like, this is how I keep getting roses, guys. in my private time with Nick, all I do is twerk. We don't talk. I twerk. But I was just like messing with their heads.

Yeah. I was like when I finally get the opportunity to do it, you know. Wait, that is so funny though because like then these girls are going to try to do that. Like I feel like you set them up to fail. Like these girls are going to go in that can't really do it. And they're like, this is what Rachel said. This is how we get a rose. And they were like doing it's really bad twerk. It's such a mind game. And I love that the people in Finland were like, you can stay. Like, we'll embrace you.

They did. They did. I was like, well, I'm like, oh my gosh. Okay, so I'm glad I asked. We'll go through a list of everybody else you've slept with also, just throughout the episode. Sure, why not? There's a lot of sex in the book. And I don't know if this is a question you had, but like one of the hardest things for me to write because I grew up in a strict religious family. And like, I still consider myself religious, spiritual, whatever, but it's more of challenging certain things rather than neglecting it, of figuring things out for yourself.

And so we don't talk about sex in my family. So this is the Christmas was interesting when I had to talk to them about certain things that were in the book, like losing my virginity and then losing myself and my self-worth in other relationships and other people. It just, it was a lot. And so, you know, they're going to learn things about me that they may not want to at the same time everybody else is. Have your parents read the book? No. Okay. I didn't give it to them before.

Okay. My mom will. My dad won't probably. I mean, I don't know how about your parents, your family, but my brother doesn't want to hear, my family's sex positive, but my brother doesn't want to hear me talk about sex. But there's sometimes I want him to listen to the podcast, so I'll give him timestamps. So maybe you can tell your dad what chapters he can read. Just a thought, just a tip. It'll be pretty obvious, which not to read. There's a whole essay called The Miss Sex Education of Rachel Lindsay. So that about me losing my virginity and how. I was taught about sex in less than a minute with an abstinence poster. So it's a really funny story that goes with it, but a lesson in the end. Have they come around at all? Like, has kind of, have you being more open and sex positive open them up at all? Or is it still very, like, we don't talk about this and, you know.

Well, we don't, which is weird. I'm married from 36, but I will say for the first time I spoke about that I was not a virgin when I got married. My mom goes, well, I always assumed, but we never talked about it. And my dad said, well, we talked to you about sex. And I said, no, you talk to me about reproduction. There is a difference. So you didn't talk to me about how to deal with. And I think that was eye-opening for him.

I was like, you didn't talk to me about how to deal with real life experiences. Of course, they told me to value myself and respect my body. But what do I do when I'm feeling a certain way about a guy or I'm getting certain pressure or I want to give myself to this person? The only message I got was abstinence at home, at church, at school. because I went to a religious school with that same friend circle. So it's like once you make the mistake,

and I'm using air quotes for people who aren't watching this, once you make that mistake, then what do you do with yourself? There's so much guilt and the shame. There's nobody to talk to. And you kind of lose yourself, especially when it's not this magical experience that you've been told it's going to be. So I work through that in the chapter,

but I also worked through that in the conversation with my parents. And it was interesting for my dad to say, yeah, I get what you're saying. We didn't talk to you about the emotional side of sex. And that I'm hoping people learn from that as they read it. Maybe you're raising a child. Maybe you can have this conversation with your parents.

Yeah. That's what I hope people get. It's interesting that your parents thought that they had to talk with you about sex, but you're like, all you talked to me about was not having sex. It was body parts. Yeah. And this is how babies are made. Okay.

Right. I'm not trying to make a baby. I'm just trying to have a good time. So talk to me about that. How do I get somebody to go down on me and make it more enjoyable for me? No, my parents were pretty sex positive. I mean, my mom acknowledged, my parents acknowledged sex existed and that it was like a healthy part of a healthy relationship. But I don't know that my mom created an environment where I'd necessarily come home and talk about the sex, which is fine.

But do you feel like this has really helped you? So if you have kids, you would talk to them about sex? Absolutely. Like, I don't know if I'm going to be the mother who's like, here, goodbye, be safe, take a condom on your. way out. I'm going to be that person. But I want them to feel comfortable that they can talk to me. And it was interesting talking to my mom because she said, I thought I did well for you because her mother, my grandmother was like, do not talk about it at all. You shouldn't be having those thoughts. And my mom said, well, at least I acknowledge that where babies come from and I put up an abstinence poster.

So she felt like for her or for us in our relationship, she was giving me the opportunity to ask questions. but when you're told this is the only way and then my mom was a virgin too it's like and I didn't necessarily have those same thoughts and feelings who do I talk to? Because I just didn't want to disappoint her is more of where it came from. When did you realize like oh sex isn't bad?

I can do it before I'm married or it's not just for reproduction it's for pleasure like I would say lakes I didn't even lose my virginity until I was 20 and then when I did it's interesting how what made me decide to do it And it wasn't because I was like, this is the man I was going to marry. It was the actual opposite when I tell that story. It was the person I thought I was going to marry at the time.

But our relationship wasn't as beautiful as I thought. And I kind of just ended up doing it because the bubble had burst for me. And I was like, no, okay. Like even when it was over, I was like, huh. That was literally my reaction. Huh. Okay. That's it.

You know? So it wasn't, you know, when. Even after, I felt the shame and the guilt because I was like, okay, I did it. You know, I did what I, you know, like I used to have a promise ring, all of that. I did what I said I wasn't going to do. I didn't wait. Okay, so now what? And I still didn't really deal with those feelings and those emotions until I had the five-year

relationship. So that started at 25, turning 26. That's when I guess I started to look at it a different way. and I started to see sex more affiliated with love than just having it. So it changed a little bit more for me in that sense because it became more meaningful. Uh-huh. I'm glad we talked about this. Absolutely.

Okay. So I have something I really wanted to talk to you about with your relationship with you and Brian. So you guys lived separately while you were, were you married or engaged and married? Yeah, we were married and we live separately. Okay. So we want to talk about this. We fully support it. We love like untraditional setups.

You know, I don't think I ever want to live in the same home with somebody. We can live in the same neighborhood or same building, you know, but I'm just like not about that. But I'd love to talk a little bit more about it. And did you get judgment from people and how did you guys make it work? I don't really know how long that lasted. But we'd love to just talk about that a little bit because we love the topic. We definitely got judged by people because, and we still do, you know, there are so many people who still think things are supposed to be done a certain way. You're supposed to have this type of marriage, live this way.

have kids at this time. And if you're not, something's wrong with your marriage. Nobody knows your relationship like you do with the person that you're in that relationship with. You set the rules. You define what makes you happy and what's a successful relationship. Brian and I, one thing we do is we always communicate and we are always encouraging each other and extremely supportive from one another. Brian moved to Dallas with, for me, I was still practicing law right after the Bachelorette. I stopped practicing and I immediately said to him, where do you want to go where you feel like you can thrive and spread your wings? He wanted to go to Miami. We packed up and we went to Miami. I'm not a big fan of Miami, but that's what he wanted to do.

He did it for me. It was time for me to make a sacrifice and support him. Then when things my career started to change in L.A., I was like, this is where I see things going. I think that this would be great for our future. Our family, he agreed. He couldn't leave at the time. So he was like, go. And so I left in, actually got a place in June of 2020. I would come out a little bit, but we were in the heart of COVID at that time. But I officially moved September 2020. Brian did not move to L.A. until April 2021. We were only seeing each other once a month.

That's a good thing and a bad thing, right? Of course, you're missing each other. But then you can have your step, you know, like, it's nice to be separate at times. We just been quarantined together. You're preaching to the choir. Over each other, all day, every day. That's the most we've been together in our relationship. So, like, there is a, there's a silver lining and distance as well.

But we always made that decision knowing we were going to come together. We didn't know how soon. Actually, it was seven months. That's sooner than we thought. We thought it was going to have to be over a year. But Brian actually made the move sooner than I thought because, you know, he wanted to be together. And of course, I did too. And so it worked for us.

But so many people were judgmental of the fact that, I left. They were like, you're putting your career over him. He's doing his thing in Miami. You're doing your thing. And we weren't. But what if we were? And that's what we wanted to do. You know what I mean? And that's what makes us happy. And that was how we wanted to define our relationship. We don't have an open marriage. But what if we did? And that's what we wanted to do. I just, it's so funny that people put what they would do on you. And it's like, no, we are successful from a reality to, TV show for a reason. We know what works for us. We communicate. We support each other. And like, that's why we're still going strong. Yeah. Also, how many people subscribe to the specific,

you know, you should things in relationships? Like, we've got a house in the suburbs. We see each other up day. We have kids and have shitty garbage relationships. Yeah, exactly. So I don't need to do what like every other person's doing because like you got to only do it works for you. I don't envy, I don't envy other people's relationships. I want to do what works for mine. I mean, this also, I say if you're going to be together forever, which, you know, not any real are. But then what's, it's a blip on the radar where you were able to like do this other thing and like prioritize your career, live in, you know, live separately. Like I just, I love it.

I'm so glad we talked about this. It's so important that who said you have to be together all the time. Who said you have to live in the same city, same house? You know, who said? It just, it worked for you guys. So I love that you did that. It makes me just know that any couple that decides to make that decision is like so secure. in the relationship.

And you know what, too? A lot of people, especially come off the Bachelor world, feel like they have to prove themselves to Bachelor Nation and prove themselves on social media that they're this successful couple. And from the get-go, Brian and I decided we weren't going to do that. But it's so funny, people are like, you haven't posted Brian in this amount of time.

There's trouble in paradise. And I'm like, how many times have you seen Bachelor couples post, post, post, post and post? And then the next post is like, we're breaking up, we're separating. I'm like, Brian and I'm like, Brian and I, I got this, you guys. We're not doing our relationship for show or for performance. When we decide to post, we decide to post.

It's so true. Katie was posting. Who did she pick? What was his name? Blake. Katie and Blake, they had a photo. And like two weeks later, they were broken up. Social media doesn't mean anything, guys. Nothing. I have a question for you about the long distance aspect of the relationship. For those of

those of our listeners who are in long distance relationships, like how did you keep it hot and heavy? How much phone sex for you guys having? Oh, my God. So I am not good at phone sex. And by that, I more so mean, like, the talking. I remember in law school trying to do it with someone. I just started laughing bit the way through. I was like, what are we doing here?

What are we doing? We must not have had FaceTime then because I was, it was 2008. So I had a Blackberry. So I was like, what are we doing here? Those are the Blackberry years, yeah. What's happening? Like, you're telling me to do something. I think at one point I was like, uh-huh, yep, I'm doing it.

And I literally was like changing the channel of the TV. Not for me. That's what most girls are doing, I think. Yeah, you're like doing dishes. You're like, yes, baby. And you're just like, oh, what's that water? Oh, you know what that is. Doing shoulders. Yeah. Doing chores. No, we, but for Brian and I, we love pictures. Yes, we would FaceTime. And, you know, like, I guess, yeah, that's considered phone sex. Yeah, I guess that's mainly what we would do. We like, we like pictures and videos. And I'm like, tell me what you want. Tell me what you want. Tell me. me what you want to see. Or maybe he'll wake up in the morning and I surprise him with something. I love that. It was that element of surprise. And then when he would come to see me, we tried to have a little bit of a staycation. So we're doing something fine. We're dating each other. And of course, just the absence of course makes the heart grow fonder for sure. So like you're coming in

hot and heavy regardless because you haven't seen each other or done anything in person in a long time. I like the surprising someone, like when they wake up, especially if you have a, if the time zones work in your favor, you know, like you know you can always fire something off. It's my favorite. So they wake up with it. Yeah. Good morning. All you have to say is I hope you're having a nice morning. And good morning nude's the best. Yes. Yes. You know, I know I was in a relationship on the East Coast with somebody on the West Coast. And so I was able at like 9 a.m. to fire off something that he could wake up to. It's the, that didn't work out. But, um, That part of it worked out.

You nailed that part of it. Yeah, the sex is the best part. But I also love the idea of a staycation when you go to a new city. I like the idea, just keeping things fresh, doing something like different, less monotonous. And honestly, I would say like long-distance relationships do stay a little fresher than when you see somebody in town every day. In town. Yeah. It's like my boyfriend's in town, guys.

Like, that's how it feels. Not my husband. So my boyfriend's down. I'm going to show them around my city. That's how, that's honestly how it felt for seven months. Yeah. It was cool. So while we're talking about El Brian.

a little bit. I mean, this is something you've talked about in different interviews and everything, but just dating outside of your race and you've discussed this, how you didn't see that for yourself necessarily? And did you deal with a lot of judgment there as well or feeling in a way that you had to defend it? Yeah, I talk about in my book, How, because people think that my life started the day I walked out of the limo. And I get that. Right. Like, there's that you met me for the first time. So So it's like, I was 31. I had so much life before. And it was quite interesting and a little wild at times, which is the beauty of this book.

But because people think that that's when my life started and they saw me dating Nick, who's white, and then they saw me date Brian, who, yes, is a Latino man, but presents as white, it's like, oh, she isn't down for our race. She isn't, she doesn't into black men, which couldn't be farther from the truth. That's all I had dated prior to coming on the show. show, and that was all my checklist, really. Because I also felt, and I actually said this on Emmanuel Acho show, uncomfortable conversations, I felt like no one could understand me and understand the black struggle unless I was with another black man. But as soon as I started to put that list

out of my head, and it was more of like, who am I viking with, who am I connecting with, do we our morals and values align the same way? Do we want the same things in the future? And I let all that stuff go. I opened myself up to so many more possibilities. If I hadn't got written, gotten rid of that list, I never would have found Brian. But I definitely dealt with the criticism, but I was prepared for it coming on to the show. I thought, okay, the type of guys that I date, the black man are not coming on The Bachelor. I knew that. I mean, they were, even my exes were like, don't you dare say my name when you go on this show. And I never have, even in the book, their names are changed. Those are not the real names of my exes. But I was prepared to possibly

fall in love with someone who wasn't black. And I expected that criticism. But the crazy thing is, I got more criticism for not picking Peter. People were so more focused on the Peter element of it that I didn't really get the hate of, you know, not picking someone who was black. Now I get a lot of, like on my podcasts with higher learning, if I speak out about people not valuing black women and not wanting to date the black men, not wanting to date black women, I get a lot of, well, that's hypocritical of you because you're not with a black man. Rachel, you can't have an opinion. And it's like, you guys, I'm still a black woman. I know what it's like on my show, I dealt with a black man having never dated a black woman. That was Will.

And they made me take him on a date. And I tried to tell them this is a big issue in the black community with black women. So I still am black. And I still deal with certain issues. And I have a black experience. So it's funny because I'm having to defend myself all over again on higher learning. I defend my blackness and people question that blackness because I'm with someone who's not black. It's very interesting. It seems exhausting sometimes. It's just great word. Yeah. My blackness is a stripped

for me. I didn't lose my identity. Now, there are people who do do that, but I'm not that person. I am still about speaking for, you know, people of color all the time. Well, thanks for speaking on it with us. I love that we talked about it. And I love hiring you. are learning too. And we, we're big fans of everything you do. And it's just, I mean, I think people's criticisms towards you in this arena is that you've been anointed as like the voice to talk about this. And as much as you can talk about the black female experience, you really can talk about your experience. And that's probably a lot of what happened. We loved your New York magazine article. And we loved you with the bachelor's up. But you were certainly anointed as that

on The Bachelorette as well. Yeah. Yeah. And I think because I was the only one speaking. And part of that is because I was the only one who could speak. If a contestant did it, they didn't necessarily have the power or the platform that I did being a lead. So I understood that. But since my season, there have now been other people of color who stood in this position who can now speak out and can be representative of minorities or the BIPP community, which is why I constantly would speak out because I felt like this position should be diversified. these stories should be diversified. We should be more inclusive than talking about other people's experiences and not the prototype of what is a bachelor or a bachelorette in Bachelor Nation.

And yes, because I've been outspoken, a lot of times people call on me to speak out. I mean, I say this in the book. I don't know if I said this out loud before, but when the situation happened with Hannah Brown in 2020, I woke up to text messages and DMs of, are you going to say something? and I'm like, what the hell happened?

You know, I'm not monitoring people in Bachelors Nation. I have no idea what they're doing. If anything, I'm trying to avoid them. And I was like, what happened? And so then I saw it and people like, are you going to speak out? You have to say something. So with, you know, heavy is the crown, right? It's a gift and a curse.

I don't want to feel like I have to always say something. Why can't somebody else say it? But at the same time, I guess I like the fact that people respect and value my opinion and want to hear for me and feel like I could say it well in whatever it is or explain something when it happens. Also, sometimes you need a minute to think about what you're going to say and how to say it. But we want to talk to you just in general about speaking out when things aren't right.

I mean, all this stuff that happened with The Bachelor, but even the New York Mag headline, you know, like I love that you were like, we did this beautiful piece and they just clickbaited with this headline. I was furious. I post about it too. I was like, you know, justice for Rachel. but is this just part of your personality and it always has been? I mean, you're a lawyer, or has it been hard for you to speak out,

especially with like this huge franchise being one of the things you're speaking out against? Yeah, I think that's such a good question because in my book of essays, I take you through how being, I'm clearly a black woman, but I wasn't accepted in the black community because I went to predominantly white schools and they teased me for the way I talked and the way that I was. And so they told me I wasn't black enough. And then I would go to school and I felt like I had to conform or water myself down a bit to be accepted by my white friends. Whether they made me feel that way or not, that's just how I felt being in a majority white community most of my day.

So it was hard for me to find my voice in the beginning. But what I'm always grateful for my parents, and this is like when I was in elementary, by junior high, I got it. But I am grateful for my parents because they always taught me who I was. They always were encouraging me and showing me the great things that black people did in this country, in this world, that weren't talked to me in my school books or by my teachers. So they always reminded me of like my greatness and told me to be proud in who I am. And I'm so thankful for that and I have that beautiful foundation. So you see me talk about that through the book and seeing my parents fight for certain things. My parents fought for us to have Martin Luther King Jr. Day off at my school.

Everybody took it off except for my school. My parents got together with other black parents and approached the school about that. I watched that as a kid. I watched my dad be the first black city attorney in Dallas. Then I watched him go on to be the first black federal judge in the northern district of Texas. I saw people question his authority because he was the first to do it. So I knew it's such an honor to be in that place, but I knew also, like I said earlier, heavy as the crown. I knew how many people doubt you, how many people are rooting for you to fail, how many people are hateful?

watching you. And that's exhausting and that's a struggle too. I saw my dad go through that, but I also saw him come out greater because of it. So I was constantly taught to speak up and stand up for myself through the example of my parents or through my own experiences. But a lot of people, it's funny in 2020, specifically in Bachelronation, accused me that I was speaking out because it was of the moment, right? Everybody was speaking out. So I was just doing it because it was what was popular. And I'm like, let's rewind the tape. I've always said that we should diversify this lead. I've always said we should be more inclusive. It's just now in 2020, you're listening to me because we've had this racial awakening in our country. Now what I am saying hits a little

different because you're a little bit more receptive to it. But even before that, and I talk about this in the book as well, I've been protesting before. I've stood up for what's right in multiple times in my life. So this has always been me. I didn't wake up in 2020 and become this person. I was always taught to stand up for yourself, believe in yourself, and don't let people take that away from you. So through my parents, sister, outside family, everything. So yeah, this is always been me. Hated or love it. It just sounds like you have such an amazing support system and parents that just like empowered you to really like stand up for it. It's so beautiful that you say that it's like even when it kind of sucks or it's terrifying or people come for you that it's like an

honor that people want to hear what you have to say. Yeah. It's a really beautiful way to look at it. Do you feel fear at all? Like are you like, am I going to really do this? Am I going to just like, am I going to clap back to the bachelor franchise or am I going to like say this thing about Newark Mag? Like, do you do have a thought process of like, do I want to do this? Am I ready for the backlash or do you have any hesitation? You know, sometimes I can't help myself. Right. I feel you on that. You know, I think that

internally, I wouldn't be okay if I didn't say something. Say something. It wouldn't settle right with me. And so I'd rather feel okay within than worry about whose feelings I'm hurting

or if I'm stepping on toes or what the backlash is because at the end of the day I at least know I stay true to myself. I remember being nervous. I actually never said this before. So that's how you know this is a great question. I remember being nervous.

in speaking out about what Hannah Brown did. To me, that's the first time that I remember feeling nervous about what I was going to say. Because of the way Bachelor Nation has reacted to me in the past, I knew that even though she, and I want to preface this all by saying, we're cool, we're fine, we've hashed it out, but obviously this is something that has happened along in the journey. This is a part of my story. So I am totally entitled to talk about it for the people who are like,

why is she talking about this again? But she and I are good. When that happened, I remember thinking, somehow this is going, I'm going to get blamed for this. And she said the word. I knew people were going to say it was an accident. I knew people were going to say, give her grace, give her understanding. She's such a good person.

She didn't mean it. She may be all those things. But that word is so offensive and it hurts so many people. I wanted to put out a video that explained why this word is. so offensive. Not that she said it, why this word hurts people. Why you cannot say it anymore. To educate people. Yes. And that is my entire video. I'm not like criticizing her. I'm criticizing the use of the word. But somehow, I knew that was going to get turned on me. And it did. People were mad at me for even talking about why I was offended. And that's a theme in my book, too.

somehow you can find grace and understanding for everybody else except for me oh that friendship ended it must be something rachel did how dare rachel speak on it and not give this person a chance to say something how dare rachel feel offended by the n word how dare rachel tell this person she's living her best life how dare you know how dare rachel trick a 50 year old man who has two decades, three decades plus of TV experience, how dare she trick him into saying something he shouldn't? You know what I mean? It's like, I knew that that was coming for me. And so I was nervous for that video, but I had to do it. I couldn't sit still, and especially in 2020, and let that just go without explaining, hey, this is why this word hurts me, you know? Uh-huh, yeah, I was blamed for it.

So I was nervous for that. The New York Magazine, I was so upset. set by that clickbait title because I don't think I blew up the Bachelor. The Bachelor blew up the Bachelor by waiting this many years to actually start doing something that included more than one sector of this nation. They put out a statement last year acknowledging the fact that they've been on the wrong side, or maybe it was in 2020, acknowledging that they've been on the wrong side of things. So they did this to themselves. It wasn't me. So I hated that title. And so I was so enrable. And so I was so enraged by it. I had to say something, but I was a little nervous because I was also thrilled to be on the cover of New York Magazine. And I loved the inside of the article. And I loved the article.

Yeah. I didn't want to seem ungrateful. I just, and the reason I asked about feeling fearful or nervous is like, is because the backlash. It's like the unfair backlash. And I just think you have to. It's not about am I saying the right thing. Of course, you're saying how you feel. I feel like this too. But it's like, am I just even ready to deal with these fucking people. Like, you know, sometimes you're just like, do I even have the energy today? I'm like, should I just self-care today and not say anything? But, you know, I think about the like Taylor Swift documentary where she, for the first time, posted about how she felt politically or something or posted about some. And it was just like, she's going to do it, you know, because it could be a lot.

And it's a lot for a person to take on, even if you can ignore the comments. You know, it's just, sometimes it's like inescapable. And you're like, it feels like the world is against you, even though that's not the truth. It's like loud. voices that that's, you know, people are screaming the loudest. When I had to sit on stage that time and read those tweets, which I was more than happy to do, read those tweets during Peter's season to show what the Bipoc community goes through from Batchar Nation, the ugly side of things, where we're being criticized for just the way we look born, not our hairstyle, not our outfit, just because of the color of our skin.

And by the way, I was not allowed to say the word racist. I had to say bullied, even though every tweet was about racism, I could not say racist tweets. Odd, right? Like, very telling that I wasn't allowed to say that. Right. But I remember when that happened. And I remember that happened.

And I was so emotional on stage, and even though I was trying to not go there. At that point, it was just kind of like, you know what I've had enough? Like, I don't really care. I'm just going to say what it is I want to say and not worry about the backlash that comes with it because it's just so toxic.

And I know it's not just in the bachelor community. It's just this internet, this social media is a really toxic place. And I think we need to talk about that more because a lot of people go through it. Absolutely. And I think it's about being true to yourself and knowing that what I'm saying is going to do a lot more good than harm. And of course, you know, Ashley and I go through this on our podcast. There's some things I'm sure some people would rather we not talk about. It's just never going to cross our mind.

do it. Even if somebody's mean and you like Ashley said, the loudest voices in the room go up against you, it's just about knowing how much that affected life for so many people in a positive way. Like what you said about Hannah Brown and just explaining to so many, a very quiet majority, what that word means. It means so much to so many people. And so if anybody's like afraid to speak out, you know, for what they believe, I think it's so important to just keep that mind. Absolutely. Well, we asked our listeners what questions they have for you. And we covered some like really good stuff with you today. But if we could just like rapid fire a couple of them at you and actually just checking to see what else we got since we started talking. But you look, you talked about

this for a second, but are you still practicing law or did you stop that after, after you got off the show? I don't practice anymore. After the Bachelorette, in between Bachelor and Bachelorette, I was actually in trial. I was in trial the day that they announced. There was a jury deliberating a case when I went on Jimmy Kimmel and Good Morning America to announce. So I went back to law. When the Bachelorette finished, I went back to law again because I just needed to be familiar with my world and step outside of the famous part of being a bachelor. I needed some normalcy in my life. So I practiced for a year and a half. A lot of people don't remember that. And I talk about my decision to leave and why I did. It's actually an essay in the book. But I no longer practice now.

Okay. So I stopped 2019. Okay. You sound pretty busy. So, Okay, this is a question I came up a couple times. And maybe you've addressed an interview, but I don't know the answer either. Have you talked to Chris Harrison after the blow up? Chris apologized to me,

like the day after it happened when it started to get attention. He did his public apology. But since I started receiving all the backlash and people were blaming me, no. And he's unfollowed me on social media. media.

Oh, okay. That's a tea. All right. What does a typical Sunday look like for you and Brian? I love Sundays. Or is there a typical Sunday? I like usually, that's usually when I can actually do my self-care routine. So we wake up.

Sometimes I watch church from a distance, meditate. We do a family walk with the dogs. If it's football season, we're all in in football. It starts at 10 in the morning on the West Coast. We are watching it all day. Like we do Sunday ticket. Sometimes we watch the pre-show. We're in that thing.

I, sometimes we go to brunch, but like Brian usually gives me that, like I like to go to brunch with my friends. You know, like that. Brian's like she's going to. She's going to do her thing. I have a question. I didn't ask this.

Do you guys want kids or do you not know or is it up in the air? Yeah, no, we do. I'm just so bad at prioritizing. Like I'm always career first. I always have been. I've been working since I, was 11 playing piano, getting a check in Sunday school. Like, it's like, but I thrive off of working if you can't tell.

So I'm really trying to make an effort to say, okay. And also I was moving around so much, but now I am more stable. So it's like, all right, this is the year where I'm actually prioritizing that and we're working on that. So yeah, I wanted four, but it's not happening. It's not happening. I read your timeline. Yeah, unless I end up with like, you know, quadruplets or something. And I'm done.

Like, y'all, please that. I don't recommend that. Well, this is also like a little lighter, but also heavier, but in line with you and Brian. Someone asked, do you believe in soulmates? So we're talking about, like, having kids with him. Do you believe in like a one mate match? I mean, you're doing 30 guys at once.

So I believe in multiple people. I think the timing, I think what makes it work is the timing. So I think you could have multiple soulmates, but the timing could be off. You know, if I had met some of my exes at a different time in my life, that relationship may have worked. Brian and I always joke that if we had met each other in our 20s, we would not have dated. We were either too wild, not ready. I wouldn't have been ready for him. I still would have been looking at that list. You know what I mean? So I think the timing with the person makes the soulman. I totally agree. What a limiting way to look at life to think you have like one person.

Out of eight billion people. Have fun finding them. Right. But I used to think that. I used to think there was one person. It's got to be, you know, and that's who I'm saving my virginity for. And they live down the street and the same religion as me. They live in this city. I laughed because you were talking about the person who you were with for five years and you look at his life now and you're like, I can't imagine being with that person. I thought the person I was to marry is my soulmate

and I look at him now and I'm like, do you even have a home? Rachel's like, yikes. Raina's, we're working on her whole her. She's had a few exes, question of boxes. We all have. I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to have a bank account glow up with the people that I did. Yeah. At this point where we decided that

Raid just wants her man to have a LinkedIn profile. So that's where we're at. I can't wait to read your book. All right. We have three more. Do you think Bachelor Nation has actually made any real change? Sure. I mean, yeah, you know, because they let us know anytime they do. They've definitely had diversified the leads. You know, since me, you've had Tasia, you've had Matt James, you've had Michelle. So absolutely, you're seeing more of a diverse cast. They let us know that they have hired an executive producer, or they promoted an executive producer behind the scenes,

who's a black woman. So they have a diversity consultant. So sure, I mean, was it due to public pressure? Absolutely. They were sued in 2012 and did nothing to change the dynamic. I would speak out before 2020. So that was three years, 2017 to 2020, nothing was done. No changes were made.

It's due to public pressure, you know, which I am on record saying, them naming Matt James was a knee-jerk reaction and was the equivalent of posting a black square, you know, to the Bats or Nation social media website. You know, or social media page is the same thing. It was performative. It was a reaction to what was happening society. I'm glad they're making changes.

I'm glad they're feeling the pressure because they don't have to do anything. They definitely have a fan base that would not care. But I'm glad that they are taking some steps. I just hope that they don't do what they did with me. Take the step of making me the Bachelorette and then for three years doing nothing. I hope that they continue because it's not a black and white thing.

It's a whole Bipak community. Inclusivity is so much bigger than black and white. So I hope that they continue to do that. And it's got to be on camera but also behind camera for sure. Well, this is kind of like funny, but is Bachelor Nation a cult? Yes. It's called Bachelor Nation. You know, I say there's Bachelor Nation and then there's Bachelor Clan.

So like there's, you know, there's two sides to this. But it is cultish. They've literally taken over a day of the week. They've been on for 20 years. It's grab your girls, grab a wine, watch it. The show is not going anywhere, which I'm not a proponent for. for it ending. There are too many people I know that work on the show that I care about that so I want to see them continue to be employed. I just want it to change for the better.

But I, um, it's absolutely cultish. Log on to Facebook. That's, oh yeah. Well, I try not to, but what, what is Facebook? That's our next question. Actually, it's weird because it's like, not called that anymore. Meta. Meta. Yeah. Like, I'm getting emails of like, check out your meta business. I'm like, what is this to get? Like, I forget. It's like a totally changed. Okay, we have one final question. Raina, do you want to do the honors? Okay. Oh, oh. Do you and Brian want to double date with Ashley and Mike Johnson? Do I need to make this happen? Yes. We'll make the reservation. We chat sometimes. Done. But we had Mike Johnson on the show recently. But we went to, we went to Austin recently and he wasn't there. He's

like in Mexico. He's in Mexico. I know. Yeah. So we've been, we didn't get to see him. He wasn't the only reason we decided to detour in Austin, but he was part of it. Listen. Yes. Yes. Yes. We can make it happen. Do we need to go down to Mexico? Like, we can make it to two for a double date and a vacation. I'm all about it. Listen, let's just do it. We'll go. We'll do like a little book event in Mexico. It'll be great. So that was the easiest question. I will book the resort. It'll be great. I'm an amazing trip planner. I'm going to get your people to talk to our people and do this. Okay, great. Well, Rachel, this was so much fun.

You are so amazing. I wish you could have done this in person in L.A., but we'll be there and we'll probably be friends and go out to drinks and everything soon. Sold. You guys, hit me up when you get here. I would love to. Yeah, and if you guys want to come to the show. Yeah, sure.

Take a Star Show. Yeah. Well, I'm sure everybody knows where to find you. But talk to us about where we can find your book, everywhere it's sold, and your Instagram and everything that we want to drive people towards. Yes. So the book is out now. You can get that wherever.

you buy your books. You can listen to me on higher learning. New episodes drop every Tuesday and Friday wherever you listen to podcasts. You can, we've talked about this, but I write for meta every week. I have a blog. I have a blog called Honestly, Rach, where I'm talking about all the things that I'm passionate about. I also do questions once a month where you can ask me absolutely anything. If this podcast has shown you anything about me, I do not shy away from any question. And I'm brutally honest. And then, of course, you can check me out on extra six out of seven days a week. You can check your local listings for that. Okay, I take back that dig about not going on meta, but Richard said, that didn't age well in the last five minutes. Okay, guys, I've never in my life

said, find me on meta. Find me in the metaverse, guys. It's a thing. Guys, it's a thing is happening. Metaverse. Rachel's like, I have a column on meta. I love it. Well, thank you so much again, we love chatting with you and we will see you in Mexico. Yes. Thank you guys so much. Can't wait. Thank you. Bye. Bye. And you guys know where to find us. Girls Gotta Eatpodcast.com. You can get tour dates. No merch right now, but it's coming soon and we will spill the tea. I am Ash Hess on Instagram. Raina is reina.org. Girls underscore got to eat on Twitter. And I was going to say the YouTube, but listen, there's not much. I just, I black out that you say this every week. There's nothing on the YouTube. I mean, there's something. It's there.

You know what? We'll see. If you look at us up on YouTube, it's there. You can follow us. We have a decent following. It's okay. Yeah, it's okay. Listen, we will work on this new business. So, you know, we have a lot more to plug in the next, in the coming months. Yeah. And we will see you guys next week. Have a good week, guys. Bye.