Girls Gotta Eat - The F*ck Them Theory (for When Let Them Doesn’t Cut It) with Keltie Knight

Episode Date: October 5, 2026

We are joined by our friend Keltie Knight, Emmy-award winning television personality, OG podcaster, and creator/author of The F*ck Them Theory – for when “let them” just won’t cut it. We discuss the meltdown that inspired her to write this book, the hard truth about achieving happiness, and why it’s ok to be messy, “try-hard,” and even a little petty. We chat about fake friends in Hollywood, body image and the “goal weight” that haunts her, why she got a face lift, and the trick everyone is using on the red carpet to look snatched. And we discuss her marriage and the ONE thing you need to look for in a partner above anything else. We are obsessed with this theory and and hope you feel empowered by the conversation! Before Keltie joins us, Rayna shares a throwback celeb sighting, and Ashley is spilling the tea on her upcoming move. Enjoy! Follow Keltie on Instagram @keltie, pre-order The F*ck Them Theory, and check out her tour dates. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for tickets to our upcoming live show and more. Thank you to our partners this week: Article: Get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more at https//:article.com/gge. Noom: Start a GLP-1 program for $39 and have it delivered in as little as 7 days at https://noom.com BetterHelp: Get 10% off and visit https://betterhelp.com/gge to explore all payment options. ShopBop: Download the app and get 15% off your first app purchase with code GGE. Nutrafol: Get $10 off your first order and free shipping at https://nutrafol.com with code GGE10. AG1: Get a free immune support bundle plus a bottle of Vitamin D3K2 FREE with your first subscription of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at https://drinkAG1.com/gge. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There is no top of happiness mound. There is no, I get the guy, I get the job, I get the career, I get the top of the podcast charts, I get the money, I get the burkin, and then all of a sudden I'm happy forever. That's not possible. So what do you do when you're up there and shit goes badly? This podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi guys. Hi guys.

Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. October. Are you good? Yeah. Just were staring into the space. I was like October. It's October. We're recording a little bit ahead of time so we can be together.

New York, but it's always my craziest month. And it's your special month, the month that we met is it our, it's not our 10 year anniversary. Yes. It's our nine year. It's our nine year friendship anniversary this week. The nine year anniversary gift is pottery. Okay. Ceramics.

Just pulled that out of your house. Well, I looked it up the other day because I was the case. Okay. I like this. Let's do that. We've never done this all eight years, but let's do it. I know, because I actually was watching Gone Girl the other day. And it was like the three year anniversary is wood or something.

And I was like, oh, I wonder what the nine year is because I'll get her something cute. And it was like pottery and ceramics. Okay, so big week. And I'm going to give you guys a life update on this episode. I was like, October's not going to be that crazy for me. And here we are. It never fails. In my life, October is the craziest month of my life.

Since I started working for myself, it's never been without fail. Last year I shot my special, had my wedding. And like, the end of my tour, it was like unhinged. And I was like, I think I'm going to have a little more relaxed October. Clown Face. No. Yeah. So I will, we'll give it.

How do you feel that our friendship has bloomed over nine years? I feel like you know me better than ever. No, I'm still getting to know you. Still discovering little things about you. Can you imagine? How I changed in nine years. I know you better than you know yourself. Do you think I know you better than Shishonk knows you?

Like in different ways. Okay. It's actually. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Let's think of orders and we'll get into it. We'll circle back to that. Thank you to article.

Get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more at article.com slash gge and NUMM. Start a GLP1 program for $39 and have it delivered in as little as seven days at Noom.com. And BetterHelp get 10% off and visit BetterHelp.com slash GGE to explore all payment options. And thank you to Shopop. Download the app and get 15% of your first app purchase with code GGE and NutraFle. Get $10 off your first order and free shipping at NutraFel.com. with code GGE10.

And thank you to AG1. Get a free immune support bundle plus a bottle of vitamin D3K2 with your first subscription of AG1 NextGen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com slash GGE. Always a mouthful.

Always a mouthful. I saw D3K2. I was rolling off the tongue after five years. D3K2. You know who I saw downstairs? I was just going to tell you because I actually don't know

if you care about this. So I was downstairs at our studio and I saw the actress from Sweet Valley High Remember the twins? Cynthia Daniel and Brittany Daniel? Why are you looking at me like that? I don't know the show.

It was a book series when we were kids. And then it became a show. In 1994, there was four seasons. Oh my gosh. Okay. I read all the books. I feel like those were like the original influencer girlies. Oh my gosh.

Yes. Oh, wow. And I saw her downstairs. And they were like on the cover of every like 17 magazine, YM, What a deep cut of the show. I feel like she caught me. Staring at her. I mean, she looks so beautiful and natural.

She's like aged so beautifully. What else did they do? I don't know if they've, have they done anything? 50 years old. Look at them. Looks gorgeous. Obsessed.

They kind of look like Allie Larder. I see it. Oh my gosh. It's just like a very. Hold on a second. What? You're not even, do you know who Cynthia Daniel is married to?

No. You're not ready. I think she's their daughter. Who? Who? Colhouser. What? Here's Reina.

You just saw Colt. Wait, which twin did you say? You don't know. Unclear. So you might have just seen Cole Houser's wife. That's crazy. One of your hall passes. Cole Houser is like my top top.

He's a ginger. He's so big. Oh, I love him. Dazed and Confuze. I've loved him. That's crazy. This is so crazy. I don't know why.

Like, I might have low-key known this, but I don't think so. Thank you for telling me this. Wow. Who's the other one married to? I wonder if Cole frequents the Maman downstairs. Could be. She played Elizabeth and then Brittany played Jessica Wakefield. Who's her sexy husband? Thank you for looking this out. He's sexy, whoever he is. Oh my gosh. Just a guy? Adam Tooney? Who is that? Unclair. I don't know who that is. I mean, Cole Houser was the original

movie I saw him in was with your hall pass, Ben Affleck. What, the breakup? No. Dasea confused. And also, while we're here, what? You guys know I haven't have said in passing that John Favro is a hall pass of mine. John Favro from Pod Save America, political commentator, podcaster. For years, you guys, I thought it was the other John Favro. And I was like, huh. So we put on the breakup, one of my favorite movies of all time, in Santrape. Like, we got home.

We put it on. We're like, let's watch a movie who doesn't want to watch the breakup. And John Favro comes on the screen and all his. frumpy glory. Like, swinger is John Favro. Yeah, Raina was like, I can't believe that's your hall pass. And I lost my mind. That was the hardest.

We laughed the whole trip. I see. All these years? You didn't know I meant John Favro from Ponce of America? I just was like, it's an interesting pick for her. And, I mean, I just support her freak. Okay. Fly that weird flag.

And while we're here, we're going to have John Favre on. It will be the first episode. ever that Ashley co-host without me. He will be her co-host. Shoshan, do not listen to this. Don't watch it. I felt like I was like booking your affair because I was like booking the studio space for you guys to do it without me.

We'll talk about it more on the intro of that episode in a couple weeks and we'll be talking about the midterms, but we just wanted to tease it here and now. So fun sighting. Okay, so what's going on with big news? That of your camp? Yes. Okay. So I rent this home in LA that I love, and I have lived in this home in Santa Monica since March of 2024, so two and a half years.

And we had a normal lease going into it. And then the homeowner and I decided to do a flexible lease. So it's like a 60-day out clause, which actually wouldn't recommend if you're ever going to do month to month, do 30. But anyway, and she had said you can live here as long as you want. I have no plans to sell it or move back in. And so that really was part of the decision when we've decided to stay in L.A., which I think I've mentioned before. Like, we're just not, we took it off the table. I felt like if we can't decide, then it's just not the right time if we're this confused.

And one of the reasons was, like, I love our house. We have a flexible lease. Like, we're not locked in. We don't have to sign another lease. Like, we can move or do whatever any time we want, really. And that was a part of our decision-making process. And as we record, this will be a little bit dated. But last week, she emails that she's going to be selling the house and gives the 60 day notice and like, you know, you have to be out in 60 days.

And Raina was livid. I will say it's not like it's year one or even two of my lease. Like it's not like she pulled the rug out from under us when we had a traditional lease, which I don't, not quite sure you can even do. But we did have this flexible outclaws on either side. I could give her 60 days. She could give me. And she told me as soon as she made the decision because I did just kind of ask, you know, when I. I was like, let me know if anything changes because we really want to stay in this house.

Because I was spiraling. Like, what do we do now? We had not committed to stay in LA for another year year. I don't want to sign another year lease. And even to sign another year lease to move for one year is so daunting and stressful and to get our home set up again. I mean, we have so much stuff. I mean, I think most people want to know like a six-month runway of are you moving. I mean, I knew I was moving to New York.

It took me a year. Like, you could wake up tomorrow and move if you want to. But like, mentally, it is a lot. to prepare to move to like figure out like what am I keeping what am I getting rid of who is moving us what do the dates look like it's really stressful do we want to stay in this neighborhood you know shashant and I have large is home with all of our things you know we've like a basement full of stuff a two car garage like we just have a lot of stuff this is mine and his stuff our entire lives are in this home you know it's going to be a fucking bitch to move so I was like I don't know what to do I don't feel like at this point this what we decided was not to sign another year lease in LA I was like okay we'll put our stuff in storage. Maybe we'll rent a really dope Airbnb that has like a flexible three to six month and we'll have some flexibility. And then I was like, I don't really want to do that. I wasn't really seen anything that spoke to me. And if you really find something you love, it's going to be very expensive, way more than you pay a month's rent. My one bedroom house in Venice

that I rented on Airbnb for like three months was the same price as my rent. Exactly that. Exactly that. It's a totally different type of pricing structure. It's way more escalated. So then I was like, okay, let me just get on Zillow and see what's up. up. This is that night, like, that this happened. I was so bad. I was like, let me check it out. Let's let me get on Zillow. And I found this house that I was like, okay, if we could live in this house, if we could move into our dream home, then we could do that for a year. Like, we love our house now, but it's not giving like dream home. I can't believe we get to live here. You know, like it's a little older. And again, we've really, really loved it. But it's not like a, wow, that's our fucking house kind of

thing. And I don't think I've really had that experience. And so that's what I came across. I was like, could this happen? I messaged this guy on Zillow, 11 p.m. And before I go to bed, I message, I'm just really interested. I'm just really interested. And I want to, you know, I want to talk. The next morning, he hasn't messaged me back. And it was just a guy with the phone number. It wasn't, it's the owner selling this by himself. Just raw dog, no third party, which I love. And Shishank was like, it was his number. The next morning, I was like, he doesn't write me back. Shishonk was like, just call him. Is his number there? I was like, I'm calling him. I call him. He answers. He's like, hello? I'm like, hi, this

Ashley from Zillow. And I just want to see, I can see this house. And he's like, the tenant's moving out today. I'm getting it cleaned and turned over. I'd love to show to you tomorrow. I was like, I can't see it tomorrow. I'm flying out at 7 in the morning. And I was like, I don't care what it looks like. I just want to get a feel for it. My husband and are very interested in this house. And he lets me come over at 7 p.m. that night. I have to fly out at 7 a.m. I have to deal with the dogs, the whole thing. And I go over there. And I'm like, this is the house. Shishong's out of town already. He didn't get to see it. But I was like, we have to live here. And Shishon was like, I trust you. And so we apply the next day. Monday, as we record, this was yesterday. He calls me, and he's like, I want to approve you living in the house. And he's so cool and so chill.

Like, I think that's even part of why we're so excited about it, too. Like, he's just wonderful. He's like, I've never raised the rent on this house. I don't plan to. I'm never selling it. You can live here forever. He only asked for one month security in L.A. They can ask for two. Like, he's just chill and easy. And so we are moving in mid-October. Like, as we record, like we're moving in like three weeks. And we have not to start at anything. I feel like I haven't booked the move yet as we record. I will do it today.

I will get in touch and I will secure the date. But like I am absolutely freaking out. And it will be nice to have a partner to do this with. Like Shishon and I haven't done this together. Like he didn't live in L.A. when I moved before. And then he moved in. But like I feel like I'm not strong enough to do this alone.

Even with like hiring people to do a full pack, full move, it's still so daunting. I feel like it is so me doing it by myself. It's just like I don't even want anybody in my space slowing me down. I've moved four or five times in the last five years. But I also, I spend the money to have somebody do a full pack for me. Like you have to really, you'll take a lot to like charities. I think you'll like really like that. Also, just like emptying out your space and donating stuff.

I think you'll like doing that. And I don't know. I just feel like I'm so regimented and I got it down. It does just feel so exciting to like redecorating new space. But yeah, listen, it's nice to have a partner to do it with you. I mean, a man that can like do shit. I mean, it was the only way I was going to feel okay about this. Like, I just felt like this upended our life in a completely unexpected way.

Yeah. And, you know, around the holidays and I had travel planned. And like, I feel so sorry. I'm not going to come to London now. And this is why. And I am really, really sorry to you guys. Again, it's not my show. It's Raina's show.

But I know you guys would like to see me there and to see both of us there. And Raina will be incredible, obviously. But I'm not going to be there if you're doing them. math, you're like, wait, how are you going to move in mid-October? And this is why I have to move now. And otherwise, I would be there. So I did just want to apologize to you guys. And, you know, I'll be there in Spirit Rain.

I'll call me. I'll be up. And we're going to make this happen. And I feel really excited to find a house that I was like, this is where I want to spend the next year and accomplish some things I have on my list. And it's going to feel like that type of dream home, tranquil, amazing, amazing, brand new, smart everything, insane house. All of a space to stay there.

I can finally tell other people if they can stay there. Every time somebody mentions going to L.A., I'll suggest they can stay at your house. Absolutely not. They can stay at your house. Well, this was actually pretty crazy. Also, I'll give you guys an update on that. But I have to tell you, no part of me for one second thought that I was about to get a text that said, this is a sign. This is a sign we're going to move to New York.

There was no part of me that anticipated that text message. Okay. I know you don't want to live here in the winter. And so I have just made peace with it. You don't want to live here. No piece of me thinks you want to live here for maybe like a millisecond. I was like maybe she'll send me a, this is just a sign. But like, I think if you wanted to move here, you would have moved here during nice weather in August.

And you would have done it. I wonder what would have happened if this happened in June or July. I think you would move here. I think I would have seen it as a sign when we were on the fence and we were really deciding. And for a moment there, we were like, we're moving to New York in August. Like, that's what we thought. I think we would have and I think this is the right move for us now. And we're just really excited.

And this is our house era. This like I don't, I haven't had this like where I'm just like, it's all about the house. You know, it's the neighborhood's great. It's not my absolute dream. But I, it's, we just are really excited about the house. I mean, besides you, the only thing that kept me in L.A. was my house. It is just, it feels so nice to have something of your own that's special and beautiful. and you're like, I've worked my entire life for this.

I mean, I grew up in a townhouse. My dad had apartments. I grew up in a small townhouse. Like, to have a house was the first time I ever had anything like that. Yeah. It was so crazy, though. So I don't want to jinx it. But the same, I've been trying to sell my house.

I finally hopefully did it. And I wanted to escrow that morning. Insane. The day that you got that email. And I was like, my house, you were like, if I could just find something that was like furnished. I'm like, my house is furnished. I left it partially furnished.

if you're curious because I go back there a lot. And while I'm showing it, I have a bedroom that's furnished and I have a couple of couches. So, like, I've been insane. The timing was insane. I couldn't fucking believe it. I mean, honestly, the house might fall out escrow. I don't trust it.

I have, yesterday was the appraisal and today is the inspection. And I had two inspections two years ago when I bought the house. It was good. I haven't had any real problems at the house. But I don't know about these buyers. You know, anybody can invent a reason for anything. So we'll see. Okay.

By the time this comes out, I may have sold the house. house? Yay. I hope so. Big moves. And so I was like really getting roasted by these moving companies because like I reached out to a couple of movie companies to be like, do you want to help me move? And all three of them write me back.

I thought you moved from L.A. to New York in June. All of them. Because I had hit them up in June also. That is so funny that they even like ran the tape on that. All three of them. Because they went all three of them smartly. Went to my Instagram and saw that I posted that I moved. Because they want to see if you worked with a moving company recently.

That's so funny. they're like actually you have and the one that I worked with goes didn't we just move did we just move you not you again it's not that much stuff it is like 30 items and they're going to go straight into a storage unit yeah um but all of them are roasting me i was like i thought you just moved don't ask questions you're fucking business take my money and leave me alone none your business yeah don't worry about this this doesn't involve you come get my shit yeah so that's what's happening and we are excited and feels like this is the right move. And then we'll reassess next year.

Listen, I love L.A. and I would live there forever, but it's not near our families. And I feel like you and I've navigated this really well, but I miss my family. And Shashon does as well. And so we'll see. I don't see a world in which that's where we live forever, but we just don't know how much longer. Yeah.

And, you know, if he were to get a job that offered him more flexibility, we would just be on the East Coast more and maybe one day we would have an apartment in New York or Boston or something or a house in Delaware. I don't know. Whatever. We'll see. But that's what's happening now and I'm excited and I will not be living in Raina's house. I posted a little thing like maybe our new house on one of our like date night what we talked about slides. I know moving to Raina's house. And I'm like, can't afford it. I can't afford it. I actually think what you would charge for rent. I think was outside of my budget. You know, hot take, I don't know. You might have worked with me on it. No, I didn't want to do that. It's expensive. It's expensive. I know where your mortgage is.

my top was a little less. And I didn't want to do that with you. I mean, on top of that, there's like insurance and homeless fees and all that. And I honestly like, for your best friend to be living in your house. I'm your landlord. And you're losing money. Finally, I'm your boss. I'm dead.

No, I just don't think that's what I would have wanted. But I'm your boss. But I pay on time. It's just so funny to me to think about you having sex in my house. Well, I don't have to think about it. Well, hopefully this family fucking takes this house because I am hemorrhaging money. But the way I think about, I mean, I will just break even, basically. I bought the house two years ago.

I put a little bit of money into renovating it. You can't flip a house for a ton of money after two years. There's all kinds of capital gains taxes. So I will hopefully just break even and be made whole again. And maybe I would buy again someday. I actually don't know. It's not my dream scenario to own property. I am envious that, like, you can just leave anytime you want and it's not your fucking

problem. I mean, I am literally in hell. Like, I just want to, like, offload this cost. And I will be made whole. again, which is the only way that I can like stomach it and get through the day. Totally. Yeah. Big month for property in this household.

All right. Well, speaking of moving, furnishing your space. So Buzz Buzz, Buzz, article. Hello. Did you know that article could make it effortless for you to create a stylish, long-lasting home in an unbeatable price? I did know that.

Let's talk. Hey, article. Long-time friend of the pod. I'm going to get a new couch. So just putting that out there to anybody listening. Yeah. Specifically article. Specifically article.

But I'd love to be. they do. I love their styles. They have like a curated range of mid-century modern, coastal, Scandy inspired pieces when I was living in L.A. I lived in Venice, lived at the beach. So I like something a little more boho and I used them for that. But now in New York, I like something that's like, you know, like a mix of stuff, mid-century modern, et cetera. So it is great for that. I mean, truly whatever room in your house you want. And they make it really easy to kind of mix and match the pieces. If you're not sure how to decorate, you can check out their website. Also, their Instagram is great just to see how people paired different pieces of furniture

together. And I mean, if you're just thinking about the quality and the price, they really have it made. So the packaging is great. Wait and feel of the product. It comes mostly assembled. I've owned quite a few things and they always hold up really well. And yeah, I mean, if we're talking couches, I love that they have a lot of stuff in different fabrics. They have boucle, they have velvet, they have leather, et cetera, et cetera. I like this timber leather sofa. I'm really into leather sofas now that I want a green sofa. I love a green sofa. So we need a dark color because the dogs. And just this gray couch, I love this couch. I love how giant it was that I have. Now you guys have seen it at this point. If you follow me, it's in so many photos, especially because of the dogs. But like in this house, it's just got a different vibe. And that's what I'm looking for. I want like a green couch and like two boucley white chairs. Love it. Okay. They have all that available for you. With fast affordable shipping and assembly, they also have support when you need it. Ashley and I love their support. We love working with companies that are just like available to you seven days a week and they're kind and they offer like real information. And they have a 30.

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may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. And while we're reconsidering old assumptions, maybe there are a few others worth questioning, too. So, you know, women inherit a lot of, like, assumptions and unwritten rules. And I think that a lot of people just this weighs on us of, you know, you should be this place in your career by now. You should have a serious relationship or a marriage right now. You should have children by now. You should have children in general. And these are all things that I think are constantly swirling women's heads. We just, I mean, no one juggles more than women. And so many things coulda shoulda woulda just cards flying through your head. Therapy can really

help with those things and just help you de-escalate the anxiety, value situations of what society tells you you're supposed to be. And if you're having those thoughts, therapy, therapy, if you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average co-pay of just $23 per session with insurance. Don't have insurance or don't live in the United States. You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com slash gge to explore your payment options. That's betterhelp.com slash ggee. Okay, let's get into it. Okay, guys, we are very excited to welcome our guest today. She is a three-time Emmy Award-winning TV personality,

a New York Times bestselling author and co-creator and host of the wildly successful Lady Gang podcast. You've seen her live from the Red Carpet at the Oscars, the Emmys, the Mekyllah, the Grammys, and the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. Her new book, The Fuck Them Theory, self-help for people who are done being the bigger person, comes out in November.

We are so excited to welcome Kelty Night. Oh, my girls. It's so fun. Like, honestly, we've been already talking for 30 minutes before the camera started because I just like, I just love you. And I feel like we're sisters and we came up together. And you guys were like front row seat to my mental breakdown at Lady World last year.

So honestly, you know because you're like, wait, should we go on? It's raining. We don't know. And I'm in the corner crying in an alligator costume. Like so many thoughts. I forgot she's also a festival organizer. I mean, I've been festival organizer. I write the intro to every single guest I have for almost 10 years.

Yours was like hard to narrow down. Like, you're so impressive. And we'll talk about your book and you talk about like having imposter syndrome. I'm like, this is the most impressive person. The stuff that you've done is crazy. But I do have to say in the book, you do talk about the meltdown at Lady World. Lady World. I'm like, Lady Ganga Lider War.

And your husband. And it's just like the Alligator suit and all the things. And I'm like, are we going to get mentioned? Like, for a minute, I was like, what if we get the picture in this book? I was like, I think we would have known about it. Well, let's tell the story. It was kind of crazy. Let's tell from your perspective.

And were you feeling like we have put so much work into this? And then, oh my gosh, it's raining. and like what Lady World is. Okay, so I had the most spectacular meltdowny fall of last year. And I think most women out there, you know, they're like, we saw your, you're like melting down about your wedding or like your baby or your postpartum. But like for me, it's always career stuff, which is like highly unrelated, but also like, okay.

So we had the Lady World Festival. And what happened was Lady World Festival and the last episodes ever of ENews were the same week. So ENews got canceled. We were hundreds of thousands of dollars in. debt on the Lady World Festival. This was a podcast. We put on my lady gang. We brought all kinds of podcasters and music. It was so epic. And it was just like so much more work than we could have imagined. And because it was so much work and I was like having all this stuff going in my life, I was self-medicating in the most spectacularly Hollywood way where I got to a point where I try to be

woo-woo where I'm like, I'm going to meditate and do yoga. And then I just needed the easy way out. So I was taking gLP ones because someone had said I was fat at the Emmys and I was like, well, I won't be that girl. And then on top of that, I was drinking like a crazy person. And then I was taking Xanax and antidepressants and then Ambien to sleep and gabapentin just to like take the edge off. Oh my gosh. This is very Hollywood of you actually. This was like eight months leading up to the festival. So I was not like doing any of the things that would normally keep me sane in Hollywood.

Like all the Pilates reformer meditation therapy out the window. I was like, I'm going to, you know, so to the point where like we went down for a site visit for Lady World and I talk about this in the book. And I got wasted in front of my boss, like the Lady World boss and his 11 year old daughter at a dinner, puked all the way home on my Chanel shoes. My assistant and the girls and Lady Gang had to undress me in the bed. The next morning I'm like pulling puke out of the braided Chanel sandals. Like I just was the opposite of like that when you're like, oh, it was so hard to make a thing.

You're so, I'm like, no, I'm messy, messy. So we got to Lady World. I'm so nervous about it. We've planned this for like five years. This is a dream. And the girls that came were like such lifers. And I was like, I want this to be amazing. And then we just see the fucking black storm cloud coming.

Oh, Destin, which hasn't had rain in seven years is the most beautiful beach of all. Do we need a rain contingency? Of course not. It never rains in Destin. We're in the bubble, whatever it's called. I'm like, oh, okay. And just so people know, this is an outdoor kind of like music festival. Like a Coachella.

Like a Mini Coachella. Yes, yes. We see this black cloud rolling towards us while we're on doing our set. And I'm like, no. There wouldn't be a thunderstorm in Destin on day one of the festival. In paradise. In paradise. It starts pouring rain.

You guys are backstage. We're like, are we going to send them on? Are they going to get electrocuted? I'm like, send them on. It was so much rain. And the audience was sitting there with ponchos running to save their lives. I mean, it was a thunderstorm like I've never seen outside before. But then they stayed.

It was so beautiful. I had like this alligator costume because I was like making fun of like the alligators in Florida. And I'm out and we're singing like, feel the rain on your skin. And I'm like crying. I'm like melting down. I'm like sweating out Gabapentin. Like it was just like such fucking disaster.

There were people on the stage with bruised. just pushing the water off the stage. And Ashley and I were supposed to go on next. And I was like, I don't know what we're going to do. There was a little bit. We went on. It was rainy, but we went. It was like, cleared up a little.

You know what? We talk about this actually all the time. And post-mortem when I got my shit together and could like really take this in. You girls are real ones. Like, you, I know your audience knows this. And you, you know, there's a reason you're so successful in what you guys do. But like, you're just real. Like, I hate the girls.

girl thing, but like, there are people who would get out there and be like, I'm not doing it. The audience is not warm. Like, it's fucking raining. This is not safe. Or like, whatever, just being like, no. And you guys were like, okay, well, yeah, half the audience left because it's a thunderstorm. But there's like a thousand girls out there that are in ponchos and they want to see us, like, probably the worst show of your life.

But you guys did it. And it was so fun. And like, you're just, you're really down to like be those girls. And I will say of all the horrible shit that has led me to meltdowns in Hollywood, every once in a while there's like a bright light like you guys. And you really, I'm like, okay, there is good karma. Well, Kelty, you're, I just want to say to you that you were such a real one. But you really do like walk the walk and like lift other people up and would genuinely

want to see other people succeed, other women succeed. And I think we have not been in Hollywood, like we, but we're in entertainment. You're Hollywood adjacent. Yeah. And we've seen it all. We've seen people like that, you know, you think you're friends. And then they get famous and they don't text you back. And, you know, we've kind of seen it all.

And I texted you. And I was like, can I come on lady gang to promote my special? And you're like, yeah, absolutely. Like, we're super busy, but we'll make it work. And that's just how you are. Like, I don't know. I think you, but just as such a genuine person. Thank you.

Because I think it's hard to find. Yeah. You don't always know. We talk about this all the time. My brother said to me, people's number one question. is are Ashley Manor really like that in real life? Yeah. Do they like walk the walk?

Do they? And he's like, it's so funny because I'm like, she's exactly what you hear on the podcast. And I think that's important because you follow so many people and then sometimes you meet your heroes and you're like, oh, they're not really like that. And I think it's a real heartbreak when you learn it. And it's also so strange to watch people learn it for the first time. Like everyone's like, oh my God, I can't like, especially like now at this point in my

career. I've watched so many, my old boss at Entertainment Tonight when I first got hired, she said to me, baby girl, we have the best job in the world because stars come and go, but we'll always be here. And I was like, oh, that's so dark. But it's true. Like, I've watched so many It Girls come and then go and come and go. And, you know, it's like, oh, this is a ruthless business. And, but everything is ruthless. Womanhood is ruthless. Like, it doesn't matter if you're in Hollywood or you're like, you work at Google. Like, people are shitty. Yeah. You know? Yeah. That's the bottom line. Womanhead is ruthless. That's your next book. Yeah. Okay. There will be no more books. Oh, did this? I'm going to ride off into the sunset,

and you tapped out. No, I'm like, the gab of pen went in the trash and sort of my career with this book. Like, I think no one's going to call me back. I'm literally calling out Andy Cohen in the book. I want to guess you up. I truly like Ashley suggests having the show. I was like, absolutely, you sent us the book. and I was like pumping my fist in the air, like reading the intro to this book. It's so good. Like, it's sort of the antithesis to let them. And we've had Mal Robbins in the show and we loved her in that episode. And if you take advice that's positive from that, then that's great.

But this is sort of the antithesis to that. And I was just like, fuck yeah. I love listening to somebody talk like this. Like, I'm very excited for people to get this in their hands. You did a great job. So tell us about the inspo. Okay. So the, can I swear?

Yeah. The Fuck Them theory is obviously. a play on words. Yeah. Let them is incredible. And let me tell you, I've done all of it. I've let them. I've girl washed your face.

I have thought like a monk, Jay Shetty style. I paid $600 to be VIP at Oprah's Live Your Best Life tour at the forum in L.A. Because I was like, I want to live my best life, Oprah. Like I am very a self-help girlie. I've done all the therapies. I've like held at the moon.

I charged my crystals. I tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. So I'm in my body. Like, I've done all of it. And there is a certain. whole in the self-help world, which is for when you're letting them and then all the unfinished business is rotting your soul. What do I do with that heartbreak? What do I do with the rejection? Like I can't just, I'm not cool enough to just be like, let them. I know you're supposed to let me,

Mel. I know what you're like, all the people in the comments are like, I know, but did you really read the book? Because after you let me. Yeah, I know. I let me. Yeah. Okay. But no, some of us, I realize like, what is my real way to help myself? And it is taking the breakdowns, the stress, the rejection, the heartbreak, and using it as fuel. There is no top of happiness mound. There is no, I get the guy, I get the job, I get the career, I get the top of the podcast charts, I get the money, I get the burkin, and then all of a sudden I'm happy forever. That's not possible.

So what do you do when you're up there and shit goes badly? You have to keep reinventing. You have to keep being hungry. And I just think it's like, what do you do while your life is falling? apart. And that is what this is all about. It's about how to just be messy and have permission to be messy and have it never figured out. And I like a little revenge. I like a little spite. But I also like figuring how to make your life work for you. I love this speech. And honestly, like, I took some things from let them. But like, you know, the idea not to keep shunas, but like, if somebody wants to

leave you, let them. And it's like, yeah, but this hurts. So like now what? If somebody wants to doubt me, fine, let them, I don't fucking care. You can't down me and then watch me. But there's like this feeling of like, then what? Well, I did a bunch of studying what? Someone in the reviews said, this is so well researched the book. And I was like, oh my God, I'm so smart. That's a great compliment. Thank you so much. I did do a lot of research and what I found. And Dr. Kelty for a second, let me just, is that unfinished business truly rots your soul in your brain. Because your brain, the neural pathways in your brain, they don't know the difference between something that has happened and something you're just thinking about constantly.

So when you have that horrible breakup or you have this horrible rejection in your life or something doesn't go that way and you're spiraling in the shower, you can't sleep at night and you're thinking all those unfinished conversations and all the things that you wish you would have said, that actually is like ruining your life. And so you have to put that somewhere. And so instead of just putting it into, I'm thinking about Doug forever in the shower and all the things he did to me,

well, what if we like, do some personal mode of writing, burn that shit and then turn that heartbreak into some power. And using that rage to be like, okay, well, I'm going to go live my best life. Do something. And that's the book. There's like kind of exercises and different things to guide you. Yeah. I just had something happen to me in Hollywood.

I pissed someone off and I found out that they were mad at me. And I was like, I guess I could just let them think I'm a dick forever. But instead I wrote a three-page handwritten note with a wax seal on it. and I had to deliver to their house with flowers. Not every time. Not everything is about being an asshole. Like, I was wrong. I need to apologize.

And, like, I'll probably never hear from that person. They're never going to call me and be like, it's okay. I wasn't that mad. But, like, it's off my plate. You go to sleep and I know that you at least try to make it better. I came my side of the street clean. Well, right.

And then you were able to release it. Bye. Right? I saw this TikTok. Did you send it to me about the don't let them theory. Just like, Don't let them. Yeah.

I said I'm so jealous we didn't come up with. Don't let them. No, I wish I had titled the book, Don't Let Them. There'd be a lot less red tape. Right. I know.

You know what I mean? Yeah, that's, but I don't know. Somebody might come after you and been like, this is so clearly a parody. Yeah. You know.

Right, right, right. Yeah. But I just, I love this. No, don't let them. And you're just so honest and vulnerable about who you are. And again,

embracing the messiness. And I love when you talk about what people call on you try hard. You're like, yeah, try hard. Like, I feel like I've really looked up to you and, like, effort is cool. I can't decide exactly what Hollywood person, like, really ruined it for the try hard girls. Because there was a moment we were girl bossing and it was cool to try and everyone was building their companies and wearing a tie and, like, making to-do lists. And then all of a sudden it became like, NEPO baby, we're smoking cigarettes again.

We have effortless slickbacks. Yeah. Like I... We'll see how don't try and lean back. We'll see how that age is in 10 years. Yeah. But just in general, you're like, I work really hard. What's wrong with effort?

It's so weird. Yeah. Well, you have this chapter in the book, like, fuck, making it look effortless or something like that. And even just the title reminded me of motherhood. And like, for so long, women have just been sold this idea that they just have to act like they're fine and that postpartum doesn't exist and that they're not like having like soul-crushing relationships.

with their body and their mind and how do I become a mom now? But let me look like I'm happy and everything is great and I'm perfect at this. And I read that title and I was like, I think people are going to really like mothers are going to take a lot from them. Oh my God. Thank you. Someone without a uterus that is so nice to hear. Like, you know, I got my uterus taken out. So I guess I, you didn't know that. I don't have, I don't have you. I don't have you. I had interest to me. Yeah. Yeah. This sounds familiar. It's fine. I think you're right. I hate, I really hate the idea of like, it's not supposed to be a lot of work. That's why I've been like, what I love about you guys too is Like being so open about the shit we're doing to our faces, the shit we're doing to our bodies, the stuff that we have to do in order to be successful in like in our lives and careers.

Like I just think going behind the curtain and not just being like, oh, I just woke up and it just all came together and here I am. Yeah. Well, let's talk about body and look stuff. So you have, fuck your goal weight. I think there's nine chapters, yes. Yeah. And even body, yes, but also face, like all the things. I mean, do you want to just share a little bit about your, your journey?

Your face journey? So long. And like up the body truce I really like that you say in the book. Yeah. It's just acceptance and neutrality. It's so dark. Okay.

So here's the thing. I grew up as a ballerina. I was a dancer. And I grew up born in the 80s, child of the 90s. So I talk a lot about in the book. Like I grew up like nobody wanted to be Kim Kardashian. Nobody wanted to have a BBL or like curves or like Garth Fisher did my boobs under the muscle.

Like nobody even wanted boobs. We wanted to be like Kate Moss. so stick thin and that was like the girl that was who was on our walls you know and then being a dancer on top of it um i i just can't remember a time when i wasn't at war in my own body and i think when you're someone who is kind of thin people are like oh it must be so easy for you and i think that no matter who you are no matter what your body shape you know i think women think about their bodies constantly And then I think when I transitioned to TV, I had such a weird upbringing with being weighed as a dancer. I had multiple jobs as a 20-year-old where I was told a show wait.

I had to be a show-weight when I was a rocket. Back in the day, they used to send you a letter to your house that was like embossed in gold foil that was like, dear Miss Kelty, like on the first day of rehearsals, you'll be required to be this way. Like it was just like very bizarre things because it was like the early 2000s. And I mean, they've since changed that, thank God. but um and what was it 1202 pounds was like i was allowed to be a hundred nine to 116 pounds which you know their doctor had decided five six yeah i mean that's like not a healthy weight but i've had a majority of different things like when i was a dancer on a cruise ship they just literally

put you on a scale and they were like oh you're 125 pounds okay your show weights 120 like they just like automatically took five pounds off and then you know with different dance companies they would like prod you and measure you and be like well based on your bMI and all the this is the way, you know, and it was just, once you get that number put in your head, your number is your number for, like my show weight haunts me and I'm in my 40s, you know, forever. It doesn't matter. Like, and so I just had this like very weird reaction to my own body and always being this like dancer thin. And then I got into hosting and I got on TV and I didn't even realize, oh my God, there's so much wrong with my face. I was never even worried about my

face. I thought my face was beautiful. And then, you know, people would comment and be like, oh, she looks like a whore. She looks like, um, someone said I look like, who's the lead singer of Aerosmith? Steven Tyler? They were like, she looks like Steven Tyler last week. I know, I know my hair. I would, no, I mean, Stephen Tyler's beautiful hair. So I think that was a compliment. I was like, when I was it was done, I put it on my story. Okay. I was like, why is this selling something somebody said to Ashley? I posted it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Honestly. Steven Tyler Core. I would get a lot of like Caitlin Jenner. And these are all five.

People would be like, oh my God, you look just like. And it would be like a 65 year old woman. Like it was just like, you know, it's just hard. Here's a thing. I know it's fake. I know it's the internet. Yeah. There's only so many times you can hear horrible things about yourself before they start to sort of seep in.

Of course. And so I started in true what I call in the book, my black swan brain. Like I say anyone that saw that movie Black Swan with Natalie Portman, there's like the scene in that movie where she is looking in the mirror and she's like scratching at her body and it's like a psycho thriller, right? And she's like bleeding and I'm like that feels like an everyday situation. Do you know what you mean? Like it doesn't feel like a horror movie that they like dreamt up in Hollywood. I'm like, no, that's sometimes how I feel in my own body. And so I started looking around Hollywood as I was on these red carpets and looking at the most beautiful glamorous girls in the world, looking at my fellow

hosts and I was like, oh, well, I got this one in a million chance to get this job that I want so badly. I better not fuck it up. So I'm going to work the hardest. I'm not going to sleep. I'm going to do the most research. I'm going to do the best interviews. I'm never going to say, no, I'm never going to take a day off. And I'm also going to fix my face that people don't like. So then I went to the medis spas and I started doing the thing that so many women do, which they see the sign in the Medi Spine, they're like, oh, $700, they're going to melt the fat away. And I started doing the Cool Sculpting. I did the Kybella, which is horrific. Don't ever do that. And basically, I disfigured my face where basically the skin was just kind of like hanging off my chin. Because those procedures.

From those procedures. Because what happens, I learned later, is that you actually need a layer of fat because muscle can't connect to skin. It's like a sand. It's a BLT. You need the bacon. I see what you mean. You need a little bit of fat to like stick it together. And so when you melt the fat away, the skin just flops around. Anyway, so I just figured my face. And then I went in. I had a necklift in 2017. And Dr. Diamond was basically like, you fucked up your face.

I'm going to go in and stitch it up like a corset. It's going to last five years. You're too young for a facelift. You're going to come back in five years. I'll give you the facelift. And so I had the facelift a year and a half ago. And I think the important thing of the story is people are like, oh, my God, you had a facelift.

You look great. Great. I know, thank you. But the important thing is that this is not a facelift because I was so vain, which I was, and I just wanted to get a facelift. This is a facelift because I disfigured my face. Yeah. Because people were mean to me on the internet.

Oh. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So it's like I'm the ultimate girl that got pressured into. I saw myself on TV. I didn't think I looked as good as anyone else. My black swan brain went nuts so bananas. And I screwed up my face so much.

in the pursuit of perfection that I had to then go get a facelift. But I think this is what we see with people. I think Chloe Kardashian is an example of like that whole family of people are like they are not exempt from all the criticism no matter what they do. No matter that they are the standards of beauty

and I feel like Chloe was especially just seemed very susceptible to it and we just watched her morph and she's a beautiful woman by the way. But I feel like there's been these points where it's like we were watching her respond to the internet in real time and doing things that really is making her look less beautiful. But then you look at somebody like her and you're like, it is never enough.

It's never enough. You like, it will never be enough. And, you know, whether or not you have a platform or not, like I think women are just being told that you're never good enough. And the standard was to then body positivity and love your body and satellite's great. And having a little muffin top is great. And then Ozympic rolled in. And now it's like, well, now you have to be real thin.

And like, it's never enough. And so you at some point have to get to a point where you're like, I've got to lean out from this. I got to just accept who I am. I think so. And I will say, like, I finished my face lift and healed from that. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm done. Thank God.

And then all of a sudden, I'm like, do I need boobs? Like, I never end. I'm not getting boobs. But, like, all of my friends have now had their children and they're all getting their little baby boob lifts. And I'm in Abiza again this summer. And I was like, I'm so much more mentally stable this year. And I'm looking around.

I'm like, do I need boobs? And then I'm not. I'm like a blest. I didn't even know that was something I needed. You definitely don't. No. I will get a facelift. Probably the next five year.

I'm going to 100%. Yeah. Probably once a quarter, I do a like, shoddy boobs. I'm not. I will. I'm really happy with my body. You know that. You look great.

I think when I see a really good. Boob. I know. And you're like, oh my God, I should get boobs. Are you guys looking at my boobs thinking like I want them to be that big? I know. Wait, are those real boobs? They're real.

I had three breast reductions. It was a whole thing. I used to have like, me. I think your boobs are great on you. They look great. But I guess my point is with all of this is like, here's the thing. I think that if we just remove the cloak of secrecy around it, right? Like me coming on your podcast being like, here's what you should do, here's what you shouldn't do.

And here's what you're going to want to do. Then it can be like, you know, sometimes when you're lying in bed at night and you feel unhappy and you just go on a fast fashion site and spend $200 and you get 19 items. Okay. Not anymore. I've leaned out. Okay, but I've said fuck them. Okay, thank you.

But you know what I mean? You know that dopamine that happens. And you're like, I shouldn't do this, but like, I just, I want something to come and I don't care that it's like made of plastic and it's going to give me like cancer. Like, I just want to wear it. I think if we talk about all of this stuff that's going on in our minds, our black swan brains with our bodies and our faces and are being affected by it and not being so like, oh, nothing gets me.

I'm such a strong woman. Then maybe it'll be the same way. like, I know, we should talk about maybe getting boobs one day. We'll talk about it and then we won't do it. You know what I mean? But like taking the shame away from it and it just being these conversations. Like I actually sort of love that the Chris Jenner, the Cat Sadler, the Tracy Tudor, the everyone else. Like now it's like we're talking about our facelifts like we're talking about buying a jelly shoe on Amazon. And good. Right. You know, there's less mystery. Right. Because I want to say, I got the facelift and now I'm like, should I do my eyes? So you can get the facelift. You're never going to be happy. Yes, and we have said that before because I've had my nose done and we've all we've all had everything done. I just think, I love that about you guys. And also like my bruise from Dr. Diamond, I was like, no, it's fine. Because like you guys come on and you're like.

Yeah, I wouldn't even ever know. But I've always said like you've got to be happy enough with yourself because that's not going to make you happy. Like I'm sure there are plenty of women who have gotten rhinoplasties who were just like, I hate myself and I will love myself after. And I went into. loving myself and then I love myself even more. But I just think you got to get to that point first because the expectations are unrealistic

that it's going to change your life in that way. And then I just don't think you ever stop. You never stop. And I think that, again, my whole point in the book is I just really want people to understand that like when you get the thing, the marriage, the job, the facelift, like, it's all inside work still. You know what I mean? And like, there's never a top of the happiness mountain where you're like, oh my God,

now I finally got this thing. I'm free. Like, there's no freedom. We have to, like, find that for ourselves. And the way that I've been able to do that in my life is through hard work and turning those, like, spiral nights into something that makes me feel purposeful. Yeah. Also, I just, I really surround myself with people that make me feel good about myself.

And it's nice. My friends, just they don't invalidate me when I say, like, I want to change this. But the people around me think that our show is amazing and they just, like, want to be a part of our lives. I think like the people around me are so wonderful. There has to be something about me that makes them want to be with me. And I don't know. The people around me are what makes me feel like really confident. But you also are who you're, what, you are the company you keep. Yeah. Right. That's like, that's true. Okay. I want to wrap up this physical appearance conversation with one thing you have in the book of like the celebrities don't really look like that in person. Like you're seeing them like with the

lighting and all the things. Yes. We're not shitting on people, but I just, I like that too. That it's not. not what you think, too. On top of all the work, everybody's getting done. They still actually don't look like what you think you're seeing. And you have three hours of makeup and hair. No one's been more close up than you. Yes. And what's so interesting, we were just talking about Chloe Kardashian. Chloe Kardashian is a very interesting person to me because she's actually prettier in real life. I believe it. This is so wild. Like when you sit next to her and through all the different years of Chloe, you're like, oh my God, you're so gorgeous. Like she's really tall. She's like got these big features. Like, she's really gorgeous. I will say. We saw it a little bit at the Vanity Fair

party last year. Do you remember the Vanity Fair Oscar party got kind of reamed for having bad lighting last year? There was like the Kaya. Okay, you missed it. I'll give you a quick thing. No, no, yes. You remember this? I remember the photo. Yeah. So normally on the red carpet, they basically have sort of a behind me, the interviewer, where the stars are facing. They have like a wall of lighting. Yeah. So they have a wall of lighting, which is like shining down. on them. You know, like, when you get your old sidekick and you took a picture in 2007, you didn't have a nose and you felt really hot. Yeah. Okay. It was a pretty filter. It's like the Paris filter on you at all times. And then on top of that, my cameraman has

another light. Like, he sets up his own light. So you're being really blasted by lights. Something happened at the Vanity Fairport. I wasn't there. That the lighting was not doing what the lighting normally does in Hollywood. And what we saw, and everyone was like, Kyra Berber has a crow's foot and you're like yeah babe everyone has crow's feet like literally everyone because when you're not blasting someone

with the Paris filter the white light totally you're gonna see a black head a little like I know firsthand because I wear a lot of makeup on the red carpet like drag queen level style makeup but then when you're all lit like that it's perfection

that's not really what people look like they've got old elbows they've got old knees they've got like a little Gratchy old lady chest that they're covering us. Yes. Like we've all got a little old lady chest. Like, you know, Jane Fonda's like, I'm going to wear a turtleneck in the summer because she's like, you're not seeing that, you know?

It's so true. But also, like, on top of that, not a hot take, people have personal trainer seven days a week. They have the most expensive hair and makeup people. And they sit hair and makeup for five hours. Oh, yeah. Professional stylist. You're not competing against reality. When you look at some, I look at women, I'm like, their hair is so amazing.

None of it's real. Nothing's real. Right. No, if you guys only knew the amount of, even for me on a red carpet, the amount of, the amount of undergarments and then tailoring. Like there's this thing, I'm going to give all your listeners a hot take, whether they're getting married or they're going to an event. There's something called a grogain.

Have you ever heard of it? No. Even in your wedding dresses? No, gosh. Okay. So there's something called the grogain. She was actually a perfect bride. Yeah, you were a great bride.

Also, getting into that dress was a journey. I mean, it just was a little tight. And I really... You needed a grogain. Okay. Yeah. A grogain is essentially a bra strap. it's a big, thick piece of material in couture dresses.

And it goes around your belly, like the right at your waist. Yeah. And so when you buy your dress from marshals or wherever you may see it, and you get your dress, what happens is they put the grogain in and they have the dress. And so it just like really, it like is like a little mini corset in every gown. And it pulls in your clothes. Well, people put the grogains in everything. Yeah.

Like everything is stars wearing on the red carpet. And it's very uncomfortable. And it just gives you like this beautiful, beautiful waist. And I put it in all my dresses. And it really like gives you a shape on the red carpet that like a spanks or a skims can't. Anyway. So there's like all these tips and tricks of like how to look great. You know, that like the regular girl doesn't know.

But they're not even wearing spags. It's like mega spanks. Well, and it's also like sometimes you look at a woman and people be like, is she pregnant? It's like it's just our uterus. It's just our organs. poke. No, people's stomachs aren't concave. I mean, some people's are, but I think like a normal woman's body parts inside of there. That's just my organs. You guys, I talk about this in the book. Like, the before red carpet is like, I don't want to be a psycho, but like I'm not having

a carbination, a carb for the week before the red carpet. And then I'm waiting for, I literally have my glam team, have two Diet Cokes in their glam bag. Because the minute my picture's taken and I'm starting to do the hosting. And like, then I'm, I don't care about the bad pictures, then I, like, suck down carbonation for the first time in seven days. And I was like, and a power bar. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like, the things people are doing, it's horrible.

It's horrible. And it's sick and it's fucked up. But like, that's the game. That's what we're doing. Okay. Just going to take a quick break. I'm telling you guys about shopop. I am so excited to talk about shopop.

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Well, let's pivot from body a little bit. No, I think it's really important to hear people say this. And I do look at people like, how are their knees looking like that? My needs don't look like that. My chest doesn't look like that. Like, knees and chest as I get older, I'm like, they're looking a little older. The elbows are not. But they're not my business.

That's a good call. Like, I don't see that. I'm not back there. There was one picture that. Oh, my God. I fucking love that. Those are none of my business. I remember this picture of Megan and I walking into the water in Greece from the back.

And I was like, we look so good. My butt looks good. We whatever. And then I zoomed in and I was like, oh my God. But I don't ever have to look at them. That's your husband's business. My elbows are none of my business. And you're right, because I felt bad about my elbows in a photo too.

I was like, you know, it's interesting. Even with Dolly Parton passing last month, like, you know, Dolly wore like a glove. Like when you interviewed Dolly, Dolly only had her fingernails out. Wow. That's going to be me. And Paris Elton does the same thing? I'm like, does Paris have an old hand?

What is she hiding under those gloves? I also have a trained. stamp, but I'm like, it's not on my business. I got mine lasered off. But it's none of your business? Yes, it's not of my business. Wait, what was your tramp stand? Oh, it was the Chinese word for woman.

Of course. Yours is a little bit worse. You have a butterfly? No, butterfly. My name looks like a bull's eye. I always forget. Because it's none of my business. It looks like a butthole.

You got to get that lasered off. It's not of my business. That's the people that sleep with me. I don't care. It looks like a butthole above your butthole. It does like a second bottle. You like a second bottle. You like it.

You like a water squirt on her ass. And I was like, you've got to get that laser-up. On the cheek? On the cheek. It's not in your business. It's not my problem. Honestly, new hashtag. It's not of my business.

It's not. I've never had a guy be like, I'm having trouble finishing. Do you have a butthole on your back? No, he loves it. They love a butthole. It's like uncharted territory. I do want to talk about dating and fuck boys. So I wrote down this quote in the fuck the fuck-the-fuck boys chapter.

And you start with, please, I am begging you if you do one thing in this wild, one-time only life, pick a partner who was nice to you. it just like really hit hard. And you talk about your husband, you say you committed to him, but only after he spent months trying to date you and you ignored him. I went on The Bachelor. Yeah, and like all this stuff. So I just want to hear a little bit about that.

You know, I've made a lot of mistakes and I'm a very messy person. The only thing I've really done right is pick someone who's really nice to me and really loves me and really knows me. and I have so many friends that have picked incorrectly. And more importantly, picked incorrectly and then had children with that person and are now in the middle of messy custody and divorces and money and you're stuck with them forever. They're even going to come to the wedding of your kids one day. Like all of the games, all the dating books, all the why men love bitches, all of it, all of it. It's so fun.

It's so crazy. It makes for great stories. but oh my God, life is hard enough with trying to make someone love you for your whole life. That seems exhausting to me. I love the advice. I saw this me the other day that said, like,

I promise you the person that dysregulates your entire nervous system is not the love of your life. And I was like, well, really hit me in the chest. The person that makes you wonder and chase after them and you don't know,

they're inconsistent. They don't do what they say they're going to do. Like, that's not, that should not be the love of your life. Or isn't nice to you. Isn't nice to you? Like, I mean, we were talking with a friend recently

in the way her and her partner were fighting and I'm like, I don't think Shishonk would ever speak to. We would never speak to each other like that. I don't know. Maybe in 10 years something old, I just can't even picture it. We don't speak to each other. We don't say things to hurt the other person's

feelings. And I also just think I can be really neurotic and I can be a certain type of person that I'm not for everybody and I found someone that doesn't love me in spite of things. He loves those things about me. So, and I feel like that's probably how you feel, too. Like, you're a specific type of person. And your husband is just like, but that's what I love about

her. And kind of is like, giggles about it. Yeah. Like it's kind of entertained. He's like, there's never a boring moment with you. And you're like, we're watching the World Cup, like me and Ashley and Shishonk and Ashley wanted a new table. And Shishonk and I were sitting there and actually's running around trying to find a better table. He's just like, I don't know her cook. It was so, he's like, the table's never good enough. It's always, I just got to let her go. And He thought it was so funny. Not like she's so much. Like she's, you know, oh, here she goes again.

Like it's more, he's just like, here she goes. Like, I watch her. He's like, you know the thing. Well, I mean, actually, like, I don't have to worry about our table at a restaurant because she will get us a better one. Like, it's just funny. It's just, I want to have a nice experience. I don't do it all this time.

No, and also like there's, I think what I learn in this journey is there's enough going on in this to keep me busy the rest of my days. I don't need to be proving myself to the love of my life. don't want to have to pretend to be a certain way or win you over or continually win you over. Like, I just want to have a nice experience. And I do think a lot of the success that I've had and the things that I've been able to accomplish in spite of my own neuroses have been because I had Chris behind me. Okay.

So then I want to quote you again because I just, and then we can move on from this. But you get, you tell the lady world story and how he was just there and, you know, it was being your rock and it's going to be okay. And you just said, this is just one of the million. times he's shown love in that way. He's by far the best person I know and honestly the best business decision I've ever made. To say your partner is your romantic partner, Rain and I, obviously, we're partners, business partners, but like that they're a business decision. It's so true because nothing ruins your life, your career, your self-worth than a bad partner. Absolutely.

I've said it. Like my best relationships are the ones that throughout the day, I don't have to think about them. I don't think like, will they show up for me? Will this person call me? Will they do the right thing? If I need something? Those are my best relationships. And like, Listen, I love Shishonk. He's made actually just more calm, more patient. He's a good business decision. He's the best business decision for us. He's the best thing that ever happened to this business. Yes. But like you also, you tell another story in the book about how it's not your first husband. It was like a rock star you were dating and how like you just kept thinking like, I just have to be the cool girl. I just have to act like things don't bother me and eventually they just won't. And like we all have our breaking points, you know? And I like, I felt that that story where you're just like, I just have to swallow this. I just have to look the other way. And like, people will take men will take advantage of you as long as you are willing to let them. To let them. Oh my God.

Isn't that true? You're not going to let them. You're going to fuck them. You're going to fuck them. And they're fun. Because sometimes it's just for the fuck. Oh, yeah. Sometimes it just.

Yeah. And also, do all the things with all the toxic guys before you settle down. Yes. That's so fun. Such good stories. Yeah. We've had a ton of. Like, if in your 20s, don't listen to the, like, be with the mean guys.

Turn it off. Turn it off. It'll make you a better. It'll make you appreciate the. other people later on. What was the thing that went fire while he was standing in front? Yes. My husband was very famous last year at the Grammys. So as you know, I'm on the road to fame. So my husband, Chris, is the EVP over at Rock Nation. So he runs the artists, like, all the music stuff over there. And so like he is a music manager. He's very private. He has a private Instagram.

He has, you can't Google him. The guy Christopher Knight from the Brady Bunch comes up. Okay. I'm like, there's like another Chris Knight in Nashville that makes music. That's not my Chris. Chris is very, he doesn't let me take pictures of him for my Instagram. He's very, very shy. And he is at the Grammys with one of his clients. And they're like in the pit, which is like where all the stars sit. And I've just done the Grammys red carpet live for me. Like my job, I crushed.

I was in a naked dress. I was like, I'm back, bitches. I was like, I've never felt hotter in my life. I crushed. Young Bud was like licking me on the carpet. It was like incredible. I get back to my hotel to eat my fat burger and drink my Diet Coke. And I'm watching the Grammys.

And I was like, is that? Chris Knight. So Chris is 6-6. Oh, good for you. There's a minute where Trevor's in this crowd and he's coming, he's coming back and it's just Chris Knight walking across the screen. And Chris, he walks across and then he sits down and then he stands right up in front of. He's like looking around and like he just walked in front of the camera. But he said to me that Trevor was like over here and the camera was way off stage. So it wasn't like there was a camera for him to walk.

He couldn't see the camera. And he couldn't, you can't hear anything inside. Yeah, just sit, it's fine. Well, don't stand in front of the camera. Just sit down. And then, yeah, everyone gets you. No, don't stand again in front of the camera. It was like a pirate DVD.

What are you doing? So he was like, I don't know what was happening. And so he's sitting down and it went so viral. He was everywhere. The amount of phone calls we got, because it just made it so much funnier because he's so private. Like, I would be like, I would be like,

oh my God, I'm viral. Okay, I better read you a People magazine exclusive to talk about my virality. Like I wouldn't suck it up, you know? And he was just like, oh my God. Like he was mortified. And he looked so hot, you guys. I was like, that's my man.

We'll put it up on the screen. And honestly, the Grammings was a little slow last year. He was like. It was a spicy moment. But Trevor Noah was like, sit down, tall guy. Yeah, he's like, tall guy. The funniest part is that Hamish, who's the director of the Grammys, literally knows Chris. Because they've worked together for years.

So like, he could have cut away. But he was, I think he was fucking with him. That's so funny. I think it's a funny moment. Okay, Raina wants to talk about friendship. Yeah. I'm having a moment now. You wrote in the book,

fuck the perfect friend fantasy. And you, I mean, I know it's a little bit work, but like you and Jack and Becca, like you're open that you guys fight and that there's conflict. And I think it's really, I think we have this idea of friendship

and that it's just, we're all supposed to like be this perfect friend and do the right thing. And like, I don't know. Just the older I get, the more I'm like, life is messy and we make mistakes. We have to apologize

to things we did. But I want to just talk about the info for the chapter. Yeah, I think that's one of the things that I've learned, especially doing the Lady Gang podcast, is that people are having more trouble with their women friendships and their friendship breakups than they really are with their. There's a lot of advice for like a bad guy or a bad romantic relationship. But friends, you're just supposed to be like a girl's girl and it all works out. And I've had just many disappointments with the Lady Gang in particular.

We spent the first like six or seven years being people would be like, do you guys fight? And we're like, not really because we didn't have anything to fight about. We were really successful. We're making tons of money. like everything was going great. You know what I mean? And then when you get into like the twilight of your business and things start to get hard and the business changes, like that's when the hard conversations have to have.

I think the radical honesty is what has saved us and saved many of my female friendships. I don't know if you guys have a similar situation. But like we, Becca will call me and she'll say something that is really hard to handle to, but it's right. And then I have to suck it up and apologize. Or I'll have to say, hey, guys. we can't pay ourselves this month. I'm like, that sucks. You know what I mean?

Like those things happen. I think what I learned is I have this like theory in the book, like the box theory, which I know Tinks talks about in dating. But Justin Sylvester, my co-hosted E came up to me. He's like, you get screwed up in friendships because you have people in the wrong box. We were talking about this a little bit before. You think like your Hollywood acquaintance, like the person that you've met that you interviewed and you kind of are friendly with like you think they're your friend.

They're not your friend. Like that's an acquaintance. And then you think your friends are your friends are your friends. best friends. Like, you're confiding in the friend the way you shoot with the best friend and then you're mad when the secret gets late. And then you're treating a best friend like a lifer. Like, there's a best friend in a season. Like, you know, have you had a like a work friend that you're so close with? I mean, like, people who are in offices are working corporate. Like, they have like a friend that like knows everything about their day to day life because you see them

every single day. More than their other friends. Yes. But they're not your lifer. That's not like your college friend. The like bridesmaid at your wedding. Like that's a lifer. And And so these boxes are different and you have to really put people in their correct boxes and treat them and invest in that friendship in that way. Because I think we get upset when, oh my God, this person did something to me. But like it's an acquaintance. Like your expectation, you're expecting them to treat you like a lifer. And they're not. They're an acquaintance.

I love that. And we've been having a lot of these conversations. This is just super relevant in our lives. And I'm obsessed with that and just even just thinking about it. And sometimes those people, the red carpet person, whatever it is, they're just so fun. You're like, you have that like moment that you have with a guy sometimes. Those like love bobby nights where you're like, this is like a kindred spirit. And it's just not.

And the secrets you might tell them should have been stuff for me. I should be talking to my college friends about who were like the real, you know, like the real ones and know me on that level that they're like family. Yeah. So did you have a situation when you're, I just. was thinking like the most relevant thing for you. Like when your special came out, this would be like a great example. I have this book coming out. It's a similar thing.

Like, and you're like, okay, this is my thing that I'm really proud of. And I know that all these people are going to show up for me and support it because they're all my friends and they all care about me. And it is some Hollywood people of like people you've interviewed or maybe people you've supported or promoted their shit on your top podcast. And then it's crickets. And you're so hurt because you're like, wait, I made you famous or I not made you. you famous, but like, I put you on my Instagram story. I put you in my Instagram story. I linked

your link. I supported you. I thought we were like a mutually beneficial thing here. We're talking about this a lot. We're talking about this a lot. And we, it's very heartbreaking. And I'm sorry, no matter what anybody says, you notice and you remember and you know who promoted you and who didn't. Everybody knows this. And I had a friend in comedy say this to me once. I don't want to share the whole conversation. But she said it and I was like, it is so true. And there was a few people that I was like, are they going to share this because of what we and I have done for And I had just a few disappointments. All my real friends showed up.

People who I genuinely consider my real friends. And I had friends come to my house to watch it. And I did not feel slighted by someone I consider a real friend. There were people that I was like, that's noted. That's noted. People who we've promoted their books, their comedy specials, not just had them on the show. It's mutually beneficial to have a guest on this show. But like, we have gone out of our way to promote them.

And it is like really hurtful. and you're like, oh, we're not what I thought that we were. And it wasn't too many. I was pretty pleased in that front. And then there, again, there's just some, there's some women that are the real ones. And like you are one, of course. And someone like Serena Carrigan, I just, I asked her, would you mind sharing this? She was like, a million percent.

I got you. And we're going to have her on a second time when her book comes out. Like this feels good. It feels good to lift other women up and promote them and vice versa. I don't know. it's weird to not. But also, I just want to tell anybody who has anything, I mean, this might not be the most relatable conversation, but like, you're not on everyone's mind all the time.

You know, like, I think you're like, but so and so didn't share. It's like, they really might not have seen it. I mean, some people, they probably did, but it doesn't hurt to ask. I mean, and I learned that when I, with the special, there was a few people who I did ask, like someone like a Serena who was not an actual close friend. And she was like, 100% I'll do it right now. You know, like, I just, it doesn't hurt. But this is real life.

This is your wedding. This is your baby shower. This is your new coffee table. This is your promotion on LinkedIn. This is this actually, we're talking about in Hollywood terms, but this is real life for women. And like, yes, you cannot expect everyone to be as excited about your thing as you, whatever that thing is. But you can note and put people where they belong based on if they're not excited for you. Yeah, you can.

But I also think like it's good to remember that not everybody thinks you need that and just to tell people what you need. You can at least try that way. Like I think somebody looks at Ashley and they're just like, she is this huge podcast. She is a huge Instagram following. She's been a comedian for a decade. Like, why would she need me to promote this? She's so successful. And I think you have to ask for help sometimes.

People just look at you and they have you on this pedestal and they probably think like, well, why would she need this from me? And that goes back to fuck pretending it's effortless. Yes. Because then you go back and you're like, hey, I want this to happen. I need your help. I'm not too cringe to ask you for support. Yeah. Yeah, don't be scared to ask. I love that. It's actually really good. What's your take on cringe? To be cringe, own it. I mean, I am cringe, but again, I don't think it's cringy to be cringe. I mean, I think some things are cringe. Like, I'm a 40-year-old woman wearing a puffy-sleeved leopard baby doll dress. I've been looking at this being like, should I wear that?

This is run-the runway. Isn't that crazy? I'm a big run-thway. Anyway, I used to do it all the time. I love, I just, like, there's some things about me that are cringe and I'll admit that they're cringe, but effort is not one of them. Like, I just think it's so pathetic. Like, I'm never going to be that girl that's, like, posting artsy photos on Instagram, getting three likes and not having it bother me. Like, baby, I'm following the trend. What? It's chic too? What?

It's, like, I'll, you know. A Netflix documentary, kind of chic, do all the things. I'm doing all the online trends. And, like, the most cringy thing you can do is really want something for yourself and not go after it because your fear of what other people are going to think. Because two things. they're either going to love it, they're going to hate it, they're not thinking about you. And that's it.

And so, like, you can throw out the bottom two. And, like, yeah, I just, I don't, I don't really care about being cringe. I love a cringe person. Yeah. I know, like those trends, like, I was like, yeah, I really don't want to see another kind of chic, but let people live. Like, I don't know. I hate that, like,

the criticism that think pieces of like, if I see one more of these trends, oh my God, people, let them have fun. It's harmless. Who cares? Let people make sourdough bread. Thank you. Make a sourdough. If I see one more of those Netflix sit-down documentary.

Oh, my. Then get off the internet. You don't know what's making you look at this either. Everything is just doing the same stuff. People are having fun. Because also like not all of us are creative geniuses. Some of us need to copy. Some of us need to copy.

I have no original ideas. I copy. Please. This is the original idea. Actually, the devil horn cover is made by a drag queen. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I have some okay ideas.

How are you feeling about like, the process being done overall looking back like how are you feeling about writing this book by yourself? The fuck them theory is the most important thing I've ever done in my life which means I know it's going to fail miserably because I care

so much I want it to be good so bad I think it's the best thing I've ever done in my entire career and I really want people to read it like I actually I really appreciate your kind words but I actually do think it's great, which is so terrifying. A lot of what I've done in my life has been kind of like, okay, and like I pretended it was

great. This is actually really great. And I'm terrified, but also I wrote it for everyone else, and I want people to read it and take something from it. But really, this was my cleansing. I was in a very bad place when I started writing this book, which I started about in the introduction. I was in a very bad place. And I have sort of crawled tooth and nail out of my own personal version of hell to be in a much better place, a much happier place. And this is, that purge. And I went through it with the reader and did it in real time. And I want people to have big, beautiful, fabulous, messy, complicated, unhinged, fearless lives. Oh, Kelsey, we love you. This is just really been such a pleasure. And we encourage people to order this for pre-sale.

Yes. The book is on pre-sell right now, F-thembook.com. And I'm also going on tour. So I have 16 dates. I'm doing that. And it's really cool because I'm having like, I'm doing Chicago, I'm doing Philly. I'm having like a guest moderator and music in every city. So like my best friend, Christina Perez, thousand years. She's going to be my moderator and like do a little mini concert in cities. And then Matt Nathanson's playing in San Francisco.

Oh my gosh. What a deep cut. Yeah. It's going to be, I know. He's my favorite. He's my celebrity crush. He is? He's my number one.

Oh, he's great. I would leave Chris Knight. I'm just kidding. I wouldn't. No, I wouldn't. Chris knows. If he knows who he knows. Yeah.

Chris will go to a Matt Nathenson concert with me and watch me be like, Anyway, yeah, so I'm going on tour and I'm just really excited about it. And you can get the book anywhere, though. Okay. Okay. Great. Well, we will link it in our show notes. The cover is great and follow you at Calty.

At Kelty. I'm the only one, bitch. I'm the lady game podcast. Yeah. Yeah. And all the things. I love having you. I'm going to post a picture of you guys performing in the rain as promotion for this episode.

Yeah, exactly. I know. Sometimes you guys will, I'll get tagged in something from Lady Gang. And I'm like, oh, it's just from Lady World. It's just me. I love that show. I got to wear Air Force ones to perform. We've performed hundreds and hundreds of times.

It's my dream to wear sneakers. And I finally got to do it thanks to you. Yeah. What you guys put on was incredible. Yeah. We don't need to. Never again. We have talked about on the podcast.

Fair well. And you guys know where to find us. Girls Gotta Eat. com. Girls got to eat podcast, Instagram and TikTok. I am Ash Hess. Instagram and TikTok. Raina is Raina.

Raina, greenberg. For her upcoming tour days. Oh, yeah. I'm on tour. You can watch full video on Spotify and YouTube. Subscribe. Leave a comment. Share with a friend.

and we will see a Thursday. Have a good week, guys. Bye.