Girls Gotta Eat - The Relationships You Never Get Over with Josie Balka

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

Warning: This episode may make you feel things. We absolutely loved talking with author/poet Josie Balka ahead of her debut book about everything from body image to exes to friendship. We discuss how no one cares what you look like in a swimsuit, why the people who didn't want you stick with you more than partners who did, reflective questions to ask yourself after a first date, that one person in your life you wish you never met, and why friendship breakups can be harder than romantic breakups. She also opens up about her fiancé, and we discuss our own past and present relationships. Before Josie joins us, Rayna shares friend behavior that should be straight to jail, and Ashley tells the tale of the woman who walked out of her standup show. Enjoy! Follow Josie on Instagram @josiebalka and Tiktok @josiebalka and order her book I Hope You Remember. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for more. Thank you to our partners this week: Quince: Get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order at https://quince.com/GGE. Nutrafol: Get $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you subscribe at https://nutrafol.com with code GGE10. ZBiotics: Get 15% off your first order at https://zbiotics.com/gge with code GGE. Helix: Get 27% off sitewide + a free bedding bundle with any Luxe or Elite mattress order at https://helixsleep.com/gge. Pretty Litter: Get 20% off your first order + a free cat toy at https://prettylitter.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There's just something about the people that didn't want you that, like, really lingers with you versus the people who really did love you. This podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi, guys. Hi, guys. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Got to eat. Welcome back. I can't wait to get out of here and get my hair done.

What is today? It's tomorrow. Tomorrow. Somebody commented on one of my videos. It was so eloquently said. She has money now and can't even pay to look less ratchet. What? Now.

I've been having money, girl. get out of here. She's like, you have a semblance of a living. It was giving that. She said to me, like, she finally has money and can't make her hair look good. And I was like, you just need to get redone. This is a whole process. We're busy. Are you overdue? Are you overdue? No, I'm underdue. Actually, my hair just grew really fast. Okay, good for you. Can I tell you what I think I'm going to do tomorrow? What? I think I'm going to do natural nails. But you have natural nails. No, polish. Natural polish? No, like, I just kind of feel like I want to see their like raw look.

Like I might get clear gel on them to keep them strong. Oh my God. But like they've gotten so long. They're obscenely long. That I just want to like see their natural look. I mean, your nails are, they look really fake.

It's crazy. I know. I can't even believe it. I mean, that couldn't be made. Do we have a neutroful after day? I'm never going to be that brave. Yeah,

we have neutral full today. Okay. Nail it. All right. Let's get into it. It could be me. You see my stuby little nail beds. All right.

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This is like very funny like behavior. I was wondering what you think about it. Like to me it's jail. So one of our friends texted me and she does this often and she just said, are you free tomorrow night? Yeah. No information. I think it is the craziest thing to ask people what their plans are and not tell me what

the plan is so I can make up a lie about I don't want to do the thing you're about to suggest. You can't ask about my schedule before you tell me the plan. You can ask whatever you want. I'm going to write, why what's up? Right. I'm not going to. I would never answer that question.

Can you imagine? Are you free tomorrow night? Just being like, yeah. That's an ambush. I start like scrambling where I'm like, um, I might be but like recording my run late and so I can't really commit to anything. You are overthinking this. Why?

What's up? Tell me what first. You have to jail. Yeah. I only have one friend. I will tolerate this from and she's one that doesn't. It's Jackie and she always, well, Jackie's coming over regardless. That's what I'm saying. Jackie's going to make sure you see her regardless. She's going to find your location. She's there. Yes. She's always like, you want to go for a walk?

And I'm like, no. And she's like, you're sitting at your house. I know you're sitting at. Also, I'm outside and I have a key. She just let herself in. Also, she always has cool stuff to do. Yes. She is my one friend. Totally. Listen, all my friends are great. But she's my one friend that I know she's about to serve up some like exclusive event. I went out to dinner with her the other night. She has a food account called No Leftover. She's a food blogger. So good. Her food content is second to none.

And we went out to dinner the other night. They comp to $600 check. Yeah, you've got to hang out with Jackie. We're going to be in those DMs now. Hey, girl. You up? But here's the thing. Also depending on your level of friendship, because you could ask me that.

And I would just be honest with you. I might hit you with the why what's up. But if I said, I'm free, what's up? And you said something I didn't want to do. I'd be like, I don't want to do that. So your best friends, you can do whatever you want. Because you're going to tell them regardless. No, I don't want to do that.

Can we do something else? She is also a person, I would say. 100%. I don't want to do that. But I just thought it was crazy. And I flagged this to her yesterday. I was like, you know you're my like only friend that has like the balls to say like, are you just free? Are you just free?

For what? I'm trying to think if I ever do it. It does feel like a trap. It's a, it is a trap. It should be, are you free tomorrow night? I have these tickets. I have this dinner reservation. Like, why can't I know what the plan is?

Or what are we doing? You can hit somebody back with a maybe. dot, dot, dot, and that implies tell me what we're doing. It depends. Tell me what you got going on. Yes. I thought it was very funny. It is funny.

It is funny. I was wondering what you thought about it. But Jackie, it's not even a trap for her. It's just vibes. Like, I don't know. And she knows, you know, I'm going to be doing something dope. Jackie's like, my life is dope and I do dope shit. And she's also like, I may not show up.

Jackie's just like, I will tell you a plan, but I also may not show up for the plan. Right. She'll get you all excited and she'll be like, I can't make it. One time when I was friends when I first became friends with her in New York, I was at some like food event. She came with her boyfriend.

It was me and this girl, her and her boyfriend, and she left in the middle of it. This is the first time I'd ever met her boyfriend. She leaves me at this dinner with him and texts me, I had to get a manicure. Just in the middle of it.

She bailed on her own plans. And left her boyfriend with me and my friend. That's so funny. And she's just like, one of those people. And like, Jackie's gonna Jackie. Yeah.

If you just left me with your fiance, dinner. I would, well, you're leaving me with somebody I know what I like, but like, no, you think I'm in the bathroom. I'm like, I'm at pinkies. I'm knee deep in this UV lamp. Sorry, I can't talk. I got foil on my nails. You're like, what? Are you not in the bathroom? I'm mid-polished change. Yeah, so got a lover. But yeah, let us know what you guys think in the comments if you think it's jail. Or some people might not mind this. There's like one person in my life that could do that. And like, maybe I'm a parent. Even a parent, I'm like, free for what? Okay, anyways.

Well, I just go back from Florida. You went on a whole tour without me. Crazy that you weren't there. I did last minute to decide I was going to come. And then it was F1 weekend in Miami. And the tickets were like exorbitantly expensive. To get there. Miami itself.

I wanted to keep this a secret. But I got to tell you, amazing time to go. We've always gone in February mostly, like winter because we were escaping New York. And then it just became our tradition. So much better later. Like late April, May. so many people have gone. It's all locals. It's not that touristy snowbird type crowd. And even my friends who split time between there and somewhere else are about to leave and go back up to Delaware or wherever.

So it just felt like so chill. The beach wasn't that crowded. I was like, this is it. And not too hot. In a few weeks, it'll just be unbearably hot. But I had the best time. I did a show in Miami and two shows in Tampa on my tour. And if you guys are curious, I'm still touring all summer long. And I'll be in Salt Lake City next. So I'll be in Salt Lake City next weekend. Tickets at ashes.com. Just have to plug it. But something happened on tour that has not happened to me yet.

I'm so jealous of everything that happened. I wasn't even there. This lady stormed out. Middle finger in the air. To my knowledge, no one has ever left my show. People probably have. Like, if they were offended, I'm not that offensive. The guy that I used to date who brought his sister to the show.

and I was talking about him tip-fucking me and she got up and walked out. But she didn't make a thing of it. To make a thing of it, you know, you're sitting in the back, you leave quietly. Like,

I don't even know if I would have known that I had walked her if she didn't put her middle finger in the air. It took me a minute to process. Also the lights. Like, I can't really see so much

of what's going on the crowd. She's walking out, middle of the room at the Tampa Funnybone. She's walking out and I'm like, is she leaving? And then people were like,

yeah, she's leaving. I'm like, ma'am. I like really riffed on it. It was very funny. Did she turn around and give you the finger? No, a middle finger in the air. Back to you.

Just blonde Karen, probably in her 50s. Middle finger in the air walked stormed out. I will say it was a really mild abortion joke. And I don't hold back in my comedy. There's some political themes throughout. People don't seem to mind if they are on the other side of the aisle. It's not. It is like.

This is the lightest thing I've done. And Brittany Brave, who I adore, you guys should see her if you can. She's so, so funny. She was with me in both cities, just fucking crushed it. So she has some stuff up top that was more offensive, quote, unquote, if that's your hard line, is, you know, women's rights and abortion. And so I was shocked. Like, this joke, actually, that I tell, I'm not going to give it away. People, wherever you stand, seem to like it.

Like, I don't know if she had been fed up at that point. With Britney jokes. And then my opening joke, and then she was like, one more fucking abortion joke. And I'm out here. And I'm saying, there's not that much. Like, my stand-up about that. But that's why I was so surprised that she left at that. And that made it even funnier.

And I roasted her the whole walk to the door. She had to walk through the showroom, roasted her the whole way. And then I was like, bye! And then all the audience was like, bye, bitch. Na, nah, nah, nah, hey. You guys start chatting. Yeah. You're so lucky.

And then I was able to keep riffing on it. it inspired me. I was like horny about it. I was like, I'm going to masturbate to that later. Oh, nothing would turn me on more. Oh my God. Just the finger up in the air. Also, by the, like, it's not a political joke at all.

And it's just about your own body. I mean, you're not roasting other people. I mean, it's literally just about your own body. And it's so crazy because there is a punchline that I guess you would get offended by Sorda, if you're easily offended. I hadn't even gotten to yet. I was midway through the, I was only done the punchline. The first half, she was out.

And I cannot believe I don't have this on film. I had a videographer for my Miami set, but not for Tampa. I can't believe I don't have this. No, I can't believe it either. I can't believe she was that offended. I want to know, like, this is not a rhetorical question. How does that woman get through her life day to day? I mean, she went to a comedy club.

I don't think that, like, it's fair. All things in comedy are fair game. I think we've come a long way from like, let's say, really, really horrible, disgusting, offensive things. But you're walking to a comedy club. I mean, chances off. you're going to hear some offensive stuff. Like, how does this woman get through her life date?

I know. And a lot of my shows, probably most of my shows, are going to be sold out in advance. Most of them have been up until Florida. That's fucking Florida for you. Where people are there to see me. And it's not as much of walking in off the street the night of a comedy show. Because that's what happens, especially in a weekend. You want to go see a comedy show.

I used to do this. I mean, back when I lived in Atlanta, it's like, let's go see a comedy show. Tonight you go to the improv, whoever was there. But I always would look them up at least a little bit. it beforehand just because I know what I like. And I guess she didn't because even if you looked it up, it says sex before marriage tour lady. Right. So I don't know how she got there. I don't know how she stayed that long. And then that's what made her leave. But, oh, you're so incredible. You're so lucky. Let's do that. So yeah, it was just, it was really fun. I feel like it bonded the

audience together. Tampa is something crazy always happens there. Tampa is also, so we used to put people's dating apps on the screen and swipe through them. And this girl saw her boyfriend. She had just moved to Tampa floor up on the screen. Yeah, that was wrong. And that was so crazy. I will say some people's dating profiles, which we know are still active, even though they're not deleted from their phones,

but it was like fresh picks. Yeah, fresh picks. Yeah. Something crazy always happens to Tampa. Something we had to leave that rental car there. We couldn't run from Avis for a fucking year. We, I'm still under investigation. They think I stole that car.

I have to pick up a car at the Pittsburgh airport in two days and I know it's going to be a problem. It's always a problem. I think we talked about us in the podcast, but we had a rental car and we valeted it and we didn't do shit to it. And then they told us that had a flat. We're like, well, it didn't have a flat

when we brought it to you. And they couldn't get it to us. And so we just had to leave it. We had a show what? We were in Orlando. We had to get an Uber. And we were like calling Avis, go get your car. Well, Avis was like, we have a location across the street.

And they were like, just leave the car essentially. Which people do all the time. If you have a rental car and it breaks down, you have to get somewhere. You're not going to sit with the car. We sat with the car, me and Tessa, for hours. And they just couldn't come get it. They said just leave it. But then one person did.

I don't know what the person we were on the phone with. And then we had, between me, Tessa, and our business managers had to make so many phone calls to Ava saying that I didn't steal this car. And I'm still dealing with this. When I pick up the car in the Pittsburgh airport in two days, I will deal with this. It's crazy. They just, do not rent list. I am on the do not rent list. Okay, well, tell me about your weekend.

I just, I feel like sometimes you leave, and we had some friends that just moved, and people were out of town this weekend. I was really, like, left to my own devices this weekend. And so I went to Ohio and Santa Barbara, and then I came back, and I really, it was cold and it rained all weekend. I, like, didn't know what to do. I almost, like, got my car worked on. I was, like, texting your fiance, like, hey, like, what do I do to get my car worked on?

I drove up to Santa Barbara. So how do I even start to tell you guys about this? What? I booked a massage at this place. And if you guys remember, I took a trip to Santa Barbara last summer and I got a massage at this place. And this guy who was like pretty good looking gave me this massage. And we just like hung out the whole time.

I've never talked to anybody through a massage. We're like him and I just like chatted the whole time. And it was kind of weird and funny because someone's like rubbing you down. He was professional. but it is the nature of being naked and being touched is sexual. And he talked to me the whole time. So it was like a funny experience. And he's hot?

He's hot. Yeah. So I booked a last minute massage at the same place again. And they were like, we don't have a lot of masseuses left for the day. This is a great place, by the way. But they were like, we only have men. And I was like, perfect. Sounds great.

I was going to ask, actually. For one in particular. He said some guy's name. And I couldn't remember what the guy's name was. But I was like, it's probably him. Yeah. And then I was like, I had anxiety all day about like, do I, knowledge that hey it's me we had this nice time together like this is our second date like I was just

had a lot of anxiety about like what was going to happen and so I'm sitting in the waiting room when I get there and these two women come to pick up these other two women and this guy walks in and it was not him my jaw hit the floor he was like Raina I look up it is a six foot six the most beautiful man I have ever seen in my life I almost canceled the massage right there I was like I won't I can't get through this right he had the biggest hands I have ever seen the biggest a smile. He was like, I am so happy to have you here. I'm really passionate about this work. So what are we doing today? What feels

good? What doesn't feel? What parts of your body? He was so amped on this job. And I was like, how am I going to get through this? Yeah. Thank God I started on my stomach because I laughed and was talking to myself like, do not laugh. Do not audibly moan. This guy at one point, he was standing

at the top of the table where my head was. I was on my stomach. And he took his hands and he ran them down my back, down my sides, the entire. The entire way, like past my butt, down my thighs, all the way down to my knees. While he was standing up at my head, that's how tall he was. He ran his hands down the entire length of my body. And I was like, don't moan. Don't grab his dick. I don't know how people get through it. He walked into the room. It took my breath away. Especially if you haven't been touched in a while. It's like a week, actually. No, no, not you. Raina. I meant, I literally met someone who hasn't,

not you. I don't know how other people do. I don't know like a woman and like a sexless marriage. You know what I mean? I don't know how. You yearn to be touch. Yes. Yeah.

I don't know how he was. You know you. No one wants to fund you. It's been so long. You probably had sex more recently than me. This morning. No. Then yes.

No, I was so horny. It was insane. I really had to be like, don't. While I was on my back, I was like smiling. And I like, I feel like this is probably. probably would for like for men when they get massages and they're like, don't get hard, don't get hard, don't get hard.

I was like, don't like your lips. Don't audibly moaned. I didn't know how to like. Don't squirt. Literally I was like, there is going to be a puddle on this table. Seriously. I'm to like, take the sheet with me.

You're like, do you mind if could you clean up the wet spot? Sorry about the wet spot. The whole table was actually soaked because I was really cold in the room and he kept like changing out these really hot wet towels on my back. Yeah. So I was like, oh, thank God. Cover up that wet spot. I know.

I was like, this is like plausible deniability because the table is so. Was he talking to you? Yeah, a little bit. Okay. But like, not a ton. And I couldn't tell. I was like, please be gay. Please be gay.

Dear God. You can't tell in California. They all seem gay. Right, exactly. So he opened up his mouth and started talking and who's to say. That was the hottest man I've ever. Oh, my God. I masturbated every day.

Totally. I don't. This content will last you for this bank bank. I've really had a lot of sex recently, but like I don't, there are all of them. You got to go back. You got to go back. She's had now right after this. I want to go back.

I mean, it happened to me one time. I think I talked. talked about this. I was on a press trip. I think I was at the San Juan Marriott and the masseuse came out and it like took my breath away. And I was like, I don't, how are, this is crazy. Like, I was so horny for him. I think that you probably think that you, but the plural, you like, it's my dream to have somebody that hot. No, I don't want it. I couldn't relax. And then I remember talking with the PR girls after. And I was like, you guys, thank you so much. They were like, we did that for you, girl.

You know, and then they were like, we've gotten to know him because we come here a lot as the publicist of the hotel and they were like, one day we went out with him, like drinks. Because they've gotten to know everybody and they were like, it just ruined the whole allure. Never meet your spank, bank material. Seriously. I was like, okay, that makes sense. They were like, we like to keep him at the spa.

Yeah, you do want to just like suspend actually knowing anything about this person. I just, it was really uncomfortable. I was about listening to great spot. I cannot wait to go back. Holy shit. And I really thought, like, if he just touched me, what would I do? Lean it? Yeah, 100%.

Which, that shouldn't happen. People get so bad. She's never stopped doing this. Seven years. She's like, I'm going to talk about massage porn. No one's going to stop me. He was totally professional. I was unprofessional.

Him and the spa did a great job. Do you think that, like, everybody that checks into that spa, like the girls at the front desk or, like, she is about to have. the ride of her life. Seriously. I wonder if they bet the women. They're like, yeah, she's going to want it. Yeah, I really did want it. I can't stop thinking about him. And then the other thing I did this weekend, I was so embarrassing. I spent so much time on it. I decided I was going to become a fashion influencer. So I built storefronts on Amazon, Revolve, shop my, I did a link tree to my Instagram. I'm so jealous. I'm so jealous. But like I finally was like,

I have a shopping addiction and let's monetize that. Let's put it out into the world. Let's show people what I'm wearing and allow them to shop for those things. And so I really, the amount of stuff I organized into like lists and links and stuff is great. It's unhinged. Is this a plug? Yeah, you guys should shop my tour. You guys go to my Instagram. Do you? My shop my links. I actually made like a really nice link tree, which I'm going to like suggest that you also do it. Mine is so pathetic. There's two pairs of pants on my shopmine. I'm going to try to make a lake tree at a shop mine. You're going to monetize it. It's going to be great. But I got good stuff in there. People always ask me like where to shop for the stuff from my house,

shop my Amazon storefront. Get in there. I love this plug. Well, I'm not on tour, so like this is my, this is my career now. I'm an Amazon influencer. Make money.

I'm trying to make money. But you do. I'm saying, like, people make good money. People do make good money. I mean, I think that like you get served these like Amazon dupe accounts

that are like, this is just like the so-and-so brand. Like, yeah, I mean, people, that's what their whole career is. Good for them. But shop my eye and, and I mean,

they're really giving it back to the creators, the influencers, like these commissions did not used to be as high as they are now. Like, they're doing it right. No, like to know was the first company that did this and then shop my. Way back in the day, like just those like affiliate links, it would be such a lower percentage. The percentages are high. They start at 30% from like 5%

and that's usually typically companies like furniture, home goods, things like that, all the way up to like 20% from like jewelry companies because like those are higher ticket items. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's nice though that these like creators that are just like posting their shit all day long get paid. You're making these companies money. You should get paid on it. And I like that they know that.

that now. So get on Raina's Linktree and fund Raina Palooza, everybody. Do you need to I finish rating a Paloosa. I planned it. I sent out the invites. It is locked and loaded. Well, I have one more thing I want to share with you. This is a DM, multiple DMs. They keep coming. And I think I mentioned this before that this guy had messaged me. I have a micro penis. Have you ever seen one? He has sent me that message too. Are you serious? Have you seen it? No, I didn't follow up secretly and ask to see it's been it. Okay, well, here's why I ask. So he is going in my DMs. I don't open these.

I just let him fly. Let him cook. So he said, this is started on March 16th. That was, I have a micropinus. Have you ever seen one? Then the next one, probably a few days later, can I show you my micropenis? Then a few days later, liberal twat. So I posted something political.

He didn't know. He's responded to my Instagram question slides where he's written I have a micro penis. He's dying to show people this micro penis. Liberal twat. My penis goes inverted when soft. I love you, mommy, liberal, babe. Oh, oh. It would be an honor to show you my micropinus.

Ask Raina. That's why I'd ask if you'd seen it. He's like, ask Raina about it. She knows. And then should I eat my own cum? And then lastly, typical liberal woman hating on men. Oh, is that because of Drew's interview? Yes, he is unhinged.

He doesn't know if he loves me or hates me. He changes his mind a lot. And then he just seems to forget. Jenny Jones. was like, wait, I kind of want to see. She was like, can you show it? I'm like, can you imagine? That's how we get kicked off Instagram.

I just think he's so funny, like one minute. He's like, my microp penis this, my micropinus that. And then he's just like, fuck you. Cunt. All right, well, bless his heart. Okay. Have I seen it? No.

And now I'm going to have to block him. I know. I should just block him. He's in my, like, hidden. But I'll look in there sometimes to watch him go. And then he'll delete stuff. Oh, and then he just gets back in. He's really going through something.

Okay. It's just so funny because we talk about Republican guys having these small dicks and it's like there's a proof. Yeah. There's the actual proof. Yeah. You're out of yourself. Yeah. You're inverted micropanus. A man who hates woman with the smallest penis of all time. Okay. Well, we're just going to talk about our partners and then we will get into it with Josie. Okay. So honestly, I'm getting a little older. I don't bounce back after a night of drinking the way I used to. And that's not really an option for me. I like waking up really early. I like feeling good. I have a business to run and I want to feel good when I get up. So I've turned to Zbiotics and then I am so so happy about it. So Zbiotics, pre-alcohol probiotic helps your body break down.

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She is a broadcaster, a voiceover artist, and a poet. She has worked for some of the largest media companies in North America as an on-air personality and radio host. She has amassed nearly 2 million followers recording viral poetry about love, friendship, loss, body image, all from the privacy of her soundproof closet. Her debut book, I hope you remember, is out tomorrow. Please welcome to the show, Josie Balka. Thank you guys for having me. Wait, this book, I just need to give you guys a warning. Like, read this.

I was having trouble getting through it. And I'm like in a happy, healthy, I'm going to cry right now. It is so beautiful. Like, you just need to be in a safe space when you guys read this. If you're really dealing with something, just be careful, read with caution. Well, thank you for saying that. It's so wonderful. Like, I was just reading just casually this morning, perusing one, started crying.

I'm like, what? Am I okay? It's just, it's really beautiful. And like, we'll talk about it more. but anyway, I wanted to warn you guys going in. Thank you. I purchased it and then read with caution. Your writing, I told like rocks me to my core.

I said to Ashley I was going through this sort of like ending a situation kind of thing. And like the amount of times I was in the fetal position listening to your content. But I first came across your content because you wrote this poem about body image and the way you feel about your body. And I referenced it on our Dr. Barrett episode last summer. And I'd never heard somebody speak about their body in this way. And you said this line and you'll have to tell me the exact quote. but you said I never saw somebody's body on a beach and ever thought about it again. What's the line?

I've never seen someone at a public pool with such a memorable body that I think about it ever again, whether it's like super good or super bad. And not that there's like a super bad body, but I just was thinking about swimming and how much trauma I've attached to going swimming in my life. And I was like, wait, I've never remembered anybody else. I don't think people are looking at me. Totally. I mean, you think about some of the most traumatizing moments as a kid was like bathing

suit related or a kid last week. I guess like growing up. It's not like a 10 year old, but like teenage. Yeah. Yes, of course, even into adulthood, like early memories. Yeah. Of like, like, I'm saying it's ingrained in us from when we're young. Well, I remember when it's like seers.

Did you guys have seers here? Yeah. With my mom and like trying on baby suits when I was like eight and being like, shut her. What? Like, why do I look like this? Yeah. Because I was always like a heavier set kid anyway.

So like, but I've struggled with it my entire life. So it's been just. a thing constantly. And now I like that I've been able to write about it and other people are like, oh, me too. And then it makes you feel a lot less alone about it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's talk a little bit about your background and just kind of share the brief story of your life and career. I think it's so funny to say like viral poetry. Oh, I know. It's weird. But it's like you're really bringing poetry back. Well, yeah. It's definitely like a very, very strange thing. And I remember the first time I went to go post one online. I don't even remember why. I think there's a couple

different reasons. I saw the Barbie movie and I was very inspired by. I like pulled my car over on the way home and wrote this big rhyming poem and I was like, what am I doing? And then I got home and I was like, I think I want to post this online. And I did, I don't think that many people liked it. And then when I was turning 30, two summers ago, I lost my mind over it. And then I wrote like a little thing about turning 30 and people seemed to really like it. And obviously it's like sometimes you need other people's validation to be like, okay, I'll keep going. Because nobody liked it. be like, okay, well, never mind. But that kind of launched me into this whole poetry thing.

And I just never stopped. And I've had people be like, is that lame? And I'm like, I think so. But I don't know. I don't know. Like maybe not. Is what? Doing poetry.

I don't know. It's just kind of random. No. The way that you are able to just encapsulate the human experience in such a beautiful brief way. And I've like gone back to your writing like in friendship breakups and like the ending of a sort of toxic relationship and even like, even like the body image stuff, like you're just able to very quickly sum up how a lot of people

feel. And I think about that line, like no one's looking at you at a public pool and ever thinking about you again. And it has ruined my entire day. I said to Ashley years that we were on our way to Cancun and I said, I finally feel free of this feeling of like starving myself for a week leading up to a beach vacation. And what a freeing feeling. But like I was ruled by that my entire life. I think I certainly notice people's bodies. But I think I know. notice the way they carry themselves. I know that I've had moments on the beach or at the pool seen, and I'm really happy with my body now, but I haven't always been. And seeing a woman that maybe like had a certain body type like me or had cellulet or whatever she had going on. And like

her wearing a two piece carrying herself looking so confident, like that is helpful to me. Oh yeah. That's what I think when I look at women's bodies. Oh, I think you like notice it for sure. But I would never carry it with me to like a week later and be like, guys, I was at the each last week and I saw like you know like I just wouldn't bring it forward right and I think in the moment like if you have a different body that like looks a little different I've had this happen before where like I have a lot of stretch marks I have scars from plastic surgeries and stuff where people will be like oh wow like you're so brave to to wear that and I'm like really and then so they are noticing but I don't think they're going to like their friends at dinner yeah exactly I just I mean I guess I noticed the people

when they carry themselves with confidence more than like what their body looks like I don't know well I yeah I agree actually we were in Aruba so I'm her to dinner. And next morning we went to this catamaran with all these people. And we were all in bathing suits. And there was like a conga line of people in bikinis dancing around the boat. And we had just eaten lunch, rice at like 10 a.m. It was rice for breakfast, full on carbs.

And I looked great, by the way. But never in a million years when I've gotten up and gotten in that cago line, actually in her bikini jumps into the congo line. And she's dancing around the boat with all these strangers. And I was like, that's the most confident person I've ever seen in my life. That lasts though. And it lasts. That lasts.

I was like, I'm going to be her friend. Yeah. That's so funny. You guys can go to YouTube and we'll show it. That's, to your point, Ashley, that's what sticks with you about a person is like. Yeah. When somebody can be so mid. No, I'm just kidding.

I don't want to sound like I'm saying that, you know, but like when somebody is just like, I'm in a bikini. I just had lunch and I'm going to go have fun. Yeah. You know, like that really stuck with. me and she looked great and she's always looked great but I wouldn't have done it at least she went looking like that in that calling me brave yeah I'm calling you brave but like me I probably weighed 115 pounds yeah and I was one of the thinnest I'd ever been and I wouldn't have done that over my dead

body but why why did I deprive myself of this fun that she was having I have this theory about just like the age that we live in now in your phone and like unless our parents back in the day we're scrolling through a photo album I was scrolling like flipping through to be like oh my god, my body used to look like that. That's crazy, like, once every six months. Every day I get a memory on my, like, Snapchat or my phone being like, you were so skinny. And I'm like, oh, my God, I forgot. Thank you for reminding me. You know, and I feel like we live in this age where not only are we looking at other people and being like, oh, I wish I looked like that or her looking at social media, not knowing what's edited, what's not. Like, you get pictures of yourself shot up your ass every

day, being like, you used to look like this or this happened to you or this person that you dated. So I feel like, I don't know, nostalgia is like a million times worse because of like the modern era that we live in. And not only am I hating myself because of other people, I'm hating myself because of myself, you know? Oh, yeah. Well, that's like a thing. You look back. You're like, when you thought you looked bad. Yeah. Yeah. And why did it? Like, I look back at times where I ruined my own day when I could have been having a really special time. And even, listen, this will be a lifelong battle for me to look at my body and like it. But like, we've been on Good Morning America, the view. And I've still looked at those clips. And instead of thinking to myself, yes, 90% of me is thinking, what a huge

accomplishment. But there's this 10% voice that is so loud that's like your arms look fat in that clip. You look like you have a neck roll in that clip. And like how unfair of me to do that to myself, to take that away for myself? What an achievement and still see that. Like whenever we get photos back from like being bridesmaids or something, I'm like, oh my God, oh my God. And then I'll see them and be like, oh my God. Or I'll be like, oh, great, what a memory. I'll post this online. But your first thought is like, what do I look like? And then, oh, what an accomplishment or what a beautiful day that was. And I think we're just like ingrained. It is. Yeah. We're programmed that way.

Yeah. I think it's years of telling yourself that people don't see you the way you see you. Yeah. People don't criticize you the way you criticize yourself. Oh, totally. But I feel like sometimes I get like opposite body dysmorphia where I'll think I look so good and then I'll see a picture. Like, what was I thinking? Where are you not? But that's the opposite of what I'm trying to read. That outfit regret is a whole other thing. I wear that baby shower on Saturday. I just, when you're in the moment and you realize you hate what you wore and you have to be in it. You have to get pictures in it. Like realizing you've dressed inappropriately, I wasn't inappropriate, but I didn't want to wear that.

Like I have so many better looks at home. And then when it washed over me, I was like, I hate myself. The whole day is ruined. Today we were sitting in the lobby of our hotel waiting to come here and I got my fiance to take a picture of me at the table.

I was like, just let me see. And he showed me the phone and I was like, well, you can't win him all, I guess. Like I'm already, my suitcase is up. We're going. So let's go.

But that was just like immediately. I was like, well, whatever. So tell us, again, we'll get into all this. but you work in radio and you use your voice for a living and do all of that and you're still doing that. I just want to hear a little bit more about you and how you got into all of that. Oh, yeah.

And now you're a poet. I guess, and now I write poetry. I have been a radio host for like, which is, it's always crazy when you get to that point where you say that you've been in your career for 10 years. Oh, God. But I've been a radio host for like 10 years. I've kind of done like a bunch of different parts of the day. And after the last four years, I kind of landed on the spot that I wanted. So I do a morning show Monday to Friday on like a country music station.

Oh, I love country music. Yeah, I love it too. I do that with my buddy Greg. He's my buddy now. We met doing it. But it's really fun. I like love waking up in the morning and doing that. Obviously waking up at 4 in the morning every day kind of gets a little old sometimes.

So we were talking about this recently because I got, I dabbled in some radio. But I was never on, when I was on the morning show, I was like would come in it later in the show. But we were talking about people who have to get up that early. What time do you go to bed? Oh my God. Too late. Like my health has just gone downhill. And I'm like, whatever.

It just is what it is, I guess. But I go to bed at like 10. Okay. I get in bed at 8. I go to bed at like 10 or 30. I scroll and like. But then you have to get up at free. My alarm goes off at like 4.20.

I get out of like 4.45. What time does your fiance have to get up for work? 6.30. Okay. So the alarm goes off. This would be impossible. I think about this in relationships all the time. Like if we had a two hour disparity between what time I have to get up and you like that we would

break up. You could sleep in the other bedroom. Yeah. It's tough. We thought about that because like he hates having to hear my alarm and I snooze it. Like I'm like a 424, 25, 430, 435 like snoo snoo snoo snoo. Not the snooze over. Oh yeah.

Constant. We all do. And sometimes I'll just get like a whack in the back to be like, get up. And I'm like, okay, I will get up now. But it's not great for him. For me, it's fine. Not your problem. Yeah.

I would have to be the you and the relationship. Yeah. If he wants to sleep in the other room, we can't, but I'm glad that he doesn't. So that's nice. My fans who woke me up at seven this morning. I was like, we're not doing seven. No. I know.

I said I wanted to get up earlier, but I meant 7.45. He has turned you into a totally different person. And honestly, I can't decide if I like it or not. My mornings used to just be mine. And now I'm hearing from you at 7.30. I get like the first five-minute voice note. And I'm like, where'd she come from? Well, also having a dog that doesn't help with having to get up.

Yeah. We have to set our alarms on the weekends to get up 10 hours after we go to bed so we can let our dog out. For the dog. Yeah. Well, we've been getting up with the hatch. Oh, yeah. He's so into it.

Oh, you're not? I love it, but he's discovered it. And we wake up with these like tribal flutes and the light starts going. It feels there at the spot. That's unreal. I've heard of it. And I thought, you should look into it. Well, I can't.

Because then it would be tribal flutes and light and he would be sleeping for two more hours. So it would be even worse. But if I could, I would love to do that. So can you tell us a little bit about your current relationship and then we'll back back into your past relationships that have inspired the book? But I just want to hear about, you know, how you guys. met, you're engaged and married. We met on a dating app called Hinge.

That's everywhere, right? Yeah. And we went on a date and then we loved each other and got married or we're going to get married. But no, he's great. I was kind of at the end of my rope. I don't know about you guys with dating, but it's like, it can be tough sometimes. And I like, it was like a Wednesday and I had double booked two dates with two different guys. And I literally showed my co-hosts out.

work that morning. I was like, there's this guy, Steve, and then there's this guy, I think his name Drew. And I was like, which one? And he looked at them and was like, go with Steve. And I was like, okay. And we went for 45 minutes, like, too. I told him I only had 45 minutes. I was like so at the end of my rope with dating. And we just like hit it off and had a really nice time and kept seeing each other again and again and now we're getting married. So boring. It's so boring. And that's what like good healthy relationship. But it's good. When I met him, I was living downtown. and I was just about to move into a nicer apartment downtown because I had just gotten my dream job or whatever

in my career and he helped me move into it and I was like this ruined now like if we don't last you help me move into this apartment and I don't even get to have my like single girl era in this really nice apartment whatever it's fine so I moved to that apartment and then he lived deep in the suburbs which I purposely put in the dating app to not let happen like I was like two kilometers or miles or whatever max

away from where I lived downtown. And he must have been in the area while he was swiping. Because now I live way out in the ends of the earth. So that's worth it. That's so funny. So I'm on this dating app called Field. And it's sort of like grinder in the sense and it tells you how close somebody is to you.

And like I knew this guy went out of town this weekend because I could see his distance from me. You guys. Watch them. It went from one mile to 260 miles. And I was like trying to think like what's in a 260 mile rate is. He told me he went away this weekend for work. And I was like, I know. It's so crazy to kind of have someone's location at that stage.

Only like sex abs do this. It's like grinder and field. They're 10 feet away. Go get them. Yeah, you can go have an orgasm in 10 minutes. Okay. And then you guys live together now? Yeah, we moved in together a couple years ago when my lease was ending.

And at first I just kept telling him like, you, I'm making this big sacrifice for you living in the suburbs. And now I've like changed. So you guys both live in the suburb. Yeah, we live now in his house. Got it. Our house. Okay. And then you're getting married a week before me.

Yeah. That's crazy timing. I said it was the same week. And you said October 25th. And I don't know why my brain was like same week as Ashley's. Well, technically is. Because I know the exact week of the day she's getting married. Her rehearsal.

I mean, she has like stuff starting on like Thursday and Friday. So I was like, it's the same week. Well, now I'm reading the wedding people and I'm like, should we start on Tuesday? Kind of. Should we start? Have you read this book? No. Is it like a long wedding lead up?

Well, it's like a rich people, fancy wedding that starts, which a lot of those types of wedding start like Tuesday. No, I'm not starting on Tuesday, but we can start doing, we can start doing stuff. We start doing Wednesday. I'll be back from the other wedding I have to go to. Yeah, on Monday. It's kind of fun. We went to an Indian wedding last year. You guys are ready to my wedding now, so, yeah. But we went to an Indian wedding in the summer and it was so long. Like there's so many different. Well, my fiance is Indian. So people are like, okay, so are you doing like the, I mean, we're doing some cultural stuff, but we're not doing the full, even just budget wise. We're not doing the full four or five days horses.

I don't get to ride in on a mini elephant or a mini horse. You don't know that yet. We have time. You don't know that yet. You haven't decided. If you guys ride in on an elephant and I get a mini horse behind you guys. We're not going to do an animal. It's only you on the mini horse.

Just down the aisle. My brother will pick you off of it and put you there to officiate. Ophishate from the horse. Yeah, you should stay on the horse like you. Say on the horse. I want your brother to do the Lion King. thing with me when he lifts me out of the horse. Ah, so quick.

It's all about you now. It's like your wedding instead of hers. Well, I get to officiate. That's so awesome. That's so awesome. That's so awesome. The wedding. Yeah.

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And you have this reel that you posted. and it's in the book too, and it starts with I Wish I'd Never Met You. And it talks about how... Watch the caution again. It also talks about that this person really didn't bring anything besides toxicity to your life and then watching them move on with somebody else is a different reel. But you wrote this reel about this loop in your head of like imagining them with somebody else, which really put me into the fetal position.

But I want to talk about it a little bit because when you and I talked about, you know, what it feels like to be in a healthy, secure relationship. and it's sort of a little less, quote, unquote, it's a different type of excitement. Yeah. I like to say, like, being in love, like, for real with the right person who's, like, good for you is really boring in the same way as, like, falling asleep in a car when someone's driving that you trust. You know what I mean?

You're kind of like, this is such a boring drive, but, like, I'm happy to fall asleep, you know? Yeah, and you're like, that was a good sleep. Yeah, exactly, because you're not worried all the time. Yeah. But sometimes that, like, worry and excitement that you feel when you're in a bad relationship because you never know if you're even going to ever see them again. Like, every time you hang out, you're like,

A rush. This is the last time I ever see you. And it like adds this level of excitement that you don't really get with somebody who really loves you because they never make you wonder if they love you. So there's not like this constant stream in your head. But yeah, that I wish I never met you was just like there's just this one person. I'm sure there's more than one person.

But like that I was like, you just brought nothing. Like sometimes I'm like, oh, I learned something from that or that was like really valuable to me in this way. Or like I made some really good friends. And like I made one friend that I really love. But outside of that. I'm just like, I wish that just never happened.

Like, what a waste of my time? You know what I mean? And I don't think it's that often that something like that happens, but I think a lot of people do have that one person that they're like, why? Like, why did I? And it's like that kind of butterfly effect almost where you're like, if that one day, I hadn't done that one thing. Yeah.

Maybe we just never would have met, you know? And they wouldn't have stolen weeks, months, years of my life. Yeah. Years. Yeah. And so are there multiple, like, people these are about? Or do you just even pull from like the human emotion? And I'm asking that because one of my favorite singer-songwriters is Dermott Kennedy.

Oh, yeah. And I think he went through an interview one time where someone was like, who's this about? And he's like, I just made it up. And people were like, what the fuck? Yeah. They were like upset. Well, because they wanted to be like a real thing. Yes, they wanted to be a thing.

I don't know if you guys listen to like, you like country music, but like Luke comes song where the wild things are. And it's all about his brother like dying in a motorcycle accident. And I was listening to him and be like, oh, my God. And then I realized he didn't like have a brother. And I was like, wait, what? Sometimes people just be making stuff up. Like, how did you come up with that?

Yeah. But there are definitely people that, like, cross my mind and, like, situations that I've actually been through. But I was in a cycle of, like, people whose names I don't even remember, but, like, be doing the same thing again and again. Because I was just thinking that, like, literally dating, yeah, dating, but, like, or not even getting to that point. But, like, everything was just this opportunity to maybe have somebody love me.

So I was just like, okay, yeah. And you kind of fall into the same patterns. You're waiting for text messages. You're, like, not even wondering. did I have fun? You're like, did they have fun? Did they like me? And I would never really leave a date or anything

being like, oh, did that person like make me have a good time? Or am I just so fun? You know, like, because I always had a fun time, but maybe I was having a fun time. That's very much me. And I had a dating coach. She's been on the show.

Her name is Amy Chan. She's been our show many times. But I was telling her I'm having an inability to really feel connected to people on dates. And she was like, are you pausing to let somebody else ask you questions? Are you, like, she's like, She's like, are you spending a lot of time interviewing somebody else showing how great you are and how funny you are, but like really not sharing a lot of depth about yourself? And I was like, yeah, that sounds like me.

I'm getting to know if you like them. I don't know. I leave the date and I'm like, I killed that date. I was the star of that date. I was amazing on that day. It's like you're putting on a performance and you don't even give them like an opportunity to be who they are because you're like, oh, I just got to shine through this and like make sure that we get through this, especially because you like talk to people for a living and you're used to having to keep a conversation going. So it's not only that, but also. you guys have a really interesting job. And a lot of the time, when you have an interesting job, and you're talking to someone who, and there's nothing wrong with this, it's a great job, works in finance. They're like, I work in finance. You're like, cool.

And then they probably have a lot of questions for you about, like, your cool job and the cool people you talk to and all that kind of stuff. And it, like, gets in the way a little bit sometimes. Would you find that? Because you have a cool job. You work in radio. Like, would you... I guess locally, yeah, it was interesting because, like, people listen to the radio in the city,

but I tried to kind of push away from that a little bit just because I didn't want it to be like, what if they don't actually think I'm cool? They just think that I do cool stuff. And that might cross your mind to you sometimes when you're dating. I'm just thinking about like trying to find other topics other than my work life. It's hard. What Ashley and I do is so fun.

We get to record two episodes a week. We're on tour all the time. You're on your business. We own a sex toy company. Yeah, that's crazy. And I have been thinking like what kind of questions can I ask people and like lines of conversation that have nothing to do with what I do for work? Yeah.

I went out with a guy that I just goes to me. It was terrible. We slept together or whatever. but I remember the date and he was so interested in what I did. And I like looked back on it and we had drinks and I just, I shared too much about our business. I like trusted him weirdly. Yeah.

We hung out for hours. It was during COVID. He seemed great. In the trenches together on the street and a tent. COVID times though was different. So weird. But I walked away. I was like, I just, I didn't tell him like trade secrets.

But I was like, I just like told him too much. Yeah. I felt like I was being interviewed about what we do. He was so enthralled by it. And like, I would rather someone obviously like, me for my personality, you know, the way I'm with my family, my dog, my friends, then like the job, even though that's a huge part of who we are as well. But in those situations, when you walk away from that and you, I don't know if it's just like a women thing, maybe men go through it too,

but you start to spiral because you're like, what did I do wrong? What did I say wrong? What did they not like about me? And then like there's just something about the people that didn't want you that like really lingers with you versus the people who really did love you because I feel like I've been in love and had really, like a few really great relationships over the years. But like, I don't sit there and, like, think about the guys that I dated that it was, like, nice. And we broke up and, like, both wanted to break up. And we were like, okay, that's, sometimes I'll say, that was a really nice guy I dated from this time to this time. And I, like, say nice things about them to my current partner and, like, whatever. But the guys that, like, didn't want you, it'll still

cross your mind. I'm wondering, like, wait, and you're, like, 80 years old. If you're sitting there going, what did I do? Like, I wouldn't even like you anymore, for sure. But, like, I just just want to know why you didn't want me and I wanted to do. It doesn't make any sense. It sticks with you. It does. I mean, I think it's a good part.

The stuff that we like talk about at dinner for hours and I'm back with our friends is the people that like didn't behave in a way that I wanted them to. And the thing that like sticks with me is like even if like if I didn't like you, but you like trumped me on the shitty behavior card, that really sticks with me. And I'm like, I didn't want to date you either. Yeah. Beat me to it. Exactly. But it's always funny because we all have like, I don't, can't speak for everybody.

But I think a lot of people have that one person too that you're, friends remember as like that person who really messed you up and like you were doing crazy shit and you were like saying the most fuck things and you were like he did this to me but like I deserved it you know what I mean like things like that where you're like oh he didn't show up for this or he got really mad at me for this and now when it comes up like we laugh and my girlfriends are like remember and I'm like hey I was crying on the floor at my apartment every day because I was like just so thinking that this was going to get better and I like was so in love with that guy and Like if everybody just gave him a chance the way that I did, we'd all really like him and

like, you know, that kind of stuff. Yeah. But it's just crazy how you can laugh about it now and like you kind of push it off to the side. But it fucks you up. Like, and it did in the moment too. And you're like, who was she? Yes. Like to look back on my old self and my past relationship before I moved away from

Atlanta. Like I don't even know that girl. I mean, I was obviously a lot younger, but like the yelling and the screaming and the drama and the breakups and the crying and the friends having to hear that all the time and sticking through it with me, thank God. like I would annoy myself and I couldn't be a more in a different relationship, different person. But I think it's also comforting to know you can change. Oh, people can definitely.

I mean, I think that there's certain ways that we can change and then certain people who never do. And like that's kind of like I just have a feeling about certain people that they're probably still the same. And I hope they're not, but they probably are. But I was just thinking this like on the flight out here because I just think about the most emotional annoying things all the time was just like, I was like, there's no way that that's the same girl that I am. You know what I mean? Yeah. Thinking back to who you were before. Yeah.

Like what you've been through. I think that it's important to give yourself grace and realize that like we are different people in every relationship. And we have this great conversation with Esther Perel. I forget what she called it. But you know, everybody's just sort of like this figure rate of like I do a thing and then you react to the thing and then I react to the way that you reacted to it. And I think that everybody that's dated me would just describe me differently.

I mean, there's people that would describe me as being really avoidant. And there's people that experience me is pretty anxious in terms of like my attachment style. And I've just shown up with. different partners in different ways and it's okay to look back and give yourself grace and say like I didn't feel safe in my body with this person and I acted out of an anxiety like an anxious attachment style towards them. And you also believe people when they tell you who you are if you really care about them. You know what I mean? So like if you're with somebody that you really believe could be the person for you and they're telling you that you're not good enough or you're bad at this or you're not

funny or you're ugly or you're fat or whatever like you're like probably like you must be right because if that's what you're hearing all the time. And you, like, for a while, I really think become the person that they made you think you are, which I guess is what, like, the epitome of being a narcissist really is, is like you get to convince everybody around you that they are. And, like, that's kind of what it is. Unless somebody, yeah, unless you're acknowledging that that's what they are. But sometimes you have to walk away from it to see it from afar. But, like, you become who they make you feel like you are.

And then once you come out of that, like, shell, and it can take years or months or days or whatever, how long it takes, you're like, oh, my God. Crazy. I just, I see Ashley in her current relationship. I wasn't around for the last one. I've just heard lore for years. If I could have dinner with one person dead or alive, he's up there. But, like, she would tell me about these, like, crazy fights and the breakups and the makeups and the crying and all this stuff and, like, the toxicity.

And it just couldn't be further from, like, who you are today with your current partner. I can't imagine that ever happening for one minute, one hour. I can't imagine you speaking to him like that. He would never speak to you like that. I can't, you know. But, like, it's always in the back of your mind. And, I mean, my current fiance, we, I don't know. if I'd call it a conflict. We just, we're having a discussion about some things recently. I mean,

we moved in together recently. It's been wonderful, but there's some growing pains, whatever. And you're like, those things creep in. It's like, it's going to happen. It's going to be the way it was with this person. You have to remind yourself this totally different person, totally different life, a different decade. But I love to feel the growth within yourself and the relationship that you're in. But you hope that, like, those past partners have changed too. Like, if I hope that my ex isn't doing this. I know that they're not just, but they're doing the same thing. I hope that he's, he's just like looking back on a relationship in the same way of I can't believe Ashley and I used to yell and scream and cry and be so volatile. Like I hope he's in like a nice stable

relationship too. Well I think that there's like certain things though that you just after you get out on the other side and you can see the light again even if it takes a long time. You realize so heavily how certain things are just an absolutely not for you now. And if your new person tries to do that you'll freak out on them like you used to but only in the way that you're like I don't deal that. So that's going to be a note for me. Even if you're like kind of overreacting to it, it's just like you've created these boundaries now that you're not going to change. But I do wonder about the people that you think of that are like the worst people that in your mind, when you cross their mind, are they like,

oh, she was nice. Like I miss her. Or are they like, I hate her to you, you know? Yeah. I think I know the answer of what my ex would say because he's told me, but I think he's I don't know. But I like that there's behaviors. It runs the gamut from how you speak to me. Your level of honesty to how you are with money. Raina was like even the whiff of that, like what she dealt with in a past relationship,

she wouldn't even like touch it. Totally. It's like a hard line. And listen, we don't know how to deal with situations until we deal all the situation. Of course I'm going to be better at the second time around. And you know, when I feel that somebody isn't contributing financially a couple

times, I think I would dip it in the butt immediately. It's like when you get food prison, you're not going to like go eat there again. You know, you're just like, I'm done with that actually. Yeah. I think the fear that we all had, I think maybe when we're younger, it gets better if you get older is that like you're going to leave them and they're going to treat the next person better. And I'm playing if it's real that I have of you.

Let me turn the sound on. People got mad at this one. The person who ruined you because they didn't love you properly probably isn't going to ruin the next person in the same way. They may actually never do it again. And I know it's hard not to sit in the front. row and expect it to happen in the same way that you're certain the train you're waiting for will show or the alarm you set will go off in the morning. You can expect it, but you can't be

short. And you're not evil to hope the pattern repeats itself, so you can have more proof that it was them and not used. We can pause it and just listen to you talk about it. But like, I do think that we all live in this deep-seated fear that like somebody's going to treat the next person better. And with time, I think you hopefully had the same perspective that Ashley does. We're like, you're like, I hope they're like, it's good. And they treat somebody really good. good. But in the moment, you're like, I cannot believe I have to watch this unfold on Instagram and social media. And they're probably so much better to her than me. And love her more. You almost are hoping that you're like, well, she's probably dealing with

XYZ that I dealt with because that's just who he is or whatever. But in the same way, and sometimes it sucks to think about the same way that you grow, other people grow too. And I actually got like a lot of comments on that one of people being like narcissists don't change. And I understand that there's like a whole heavier side of that from what I meant by this one specifically. It was just like the guy who you kind of were like, why not me? Like is going to pick someone else and probably take them out for dinner and book reservations and take really good care of them and love them and introduce them to your family or introduce her to their family or whatever.

And I think that's something that's obviously a huge struggle to think of afterwards because you're like, okay, so you'd call me all the time late at night, two o'clock in the morning and now you're like calling your mom about this girl. Like why her, you know? Yeah, why not me? Why her? Well, not everybody is a narcissist, yes. I don't think a true diagnosed narcissist could change.

But people grow up. Their life circumstances change. They meet somebody that doesn't trigger them the way that you trigger them for whatever reason and vice versa. Like, people just grow up. Yeah. And I think that it's hard to wrap your head around that sometimes. But like somebody didn't want you to make them a bad person.

It just means they didn't want you. And you're not their person. And like you will find your person and look back and say, thank God. I'm not with this guy. But it's hard in the moment if you think they're the one. and it's not reciprocated. That's the problem is like when you really, really think that. But a lot of the times, and I think this is a really great thing about girls and women and

girlfriends and whatever, you'll be like, oh, this guy like didn't want me. And you're like, well, he's an asshole. And I'm like, no, he's not though. Like, he just didn't like me. Like, that's fine. He's allowed to not like me. Yeah. But when you have all your troops rallying around you being like, he's the worst, you're

like, yeah, he's the worst. And it's like, it's his problem. But I think that if you can come around to be like, hey, the best relationship for both of us would be if we wanted each other. Totally. You'd be totally trapped in this if you stuck with me because you didn't want that. Again, it's easier said than done when you're in it and you're truly feeling those emotions and they're like a drug, but it's not your person if they don't want you.

It's literally that simple. Yeah. But that's so funny. And we've talked about this. I think we talked about it with Jared Fried like years ago where like you want that crazy story to share brunch and this terrible thing he did. And your friends are all like, he's natural. He's a narcissist. And you're like, no, I just, I don't know.

It just didn't work. Oh, I know. That's one of my things. I have so many friends who will just jump down the throat of anybody else. Like, I'll be telling a story and I'm like, she did what? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, hang on. I'm friends with her too. I'm just telling you a story.

Yeah. And like, it's really great to have friends that fiercely devote themselves to being your friend. But sometimes it can actually be a little toxic in the way that you're like, wait, you need to see both sides of this. And I think that like some of the best friends that you'll find in your life are the ones who will be like, I actually don't think, I don't know if he was the problem in that. Like, it might have been you.

We say that. And that can come with age too. that we will help each other see the other side of something that a conflict with a friend, with a partner. Like, I'm not a, let me play devil's advocate friend. Get the fuck out of here with that. But sometimes you do have to look at a top-down perspective of someone that's not in. I think we do that for each other a lot.

Sometimes you have to just be like, I feel like the best thing that you can do is not make somebody feel worse with something they already feel bad about. Yeah. But if they're not seeing any of their own issues, you can like open their eyes up to them being the problem if they actually really are. but there's different ways to approach it for sure. Yeah, I think people overuse narcissist, gaslight, or pathological liar. Those things exist.

And they're very serious. They're very abusive. When you're talking about someone who's not that way and calling them that and telling everyone that they are that, when people who have actually dealt with narcissists and abusers are like, that's not what that felt like, you know? And I always think about this thing my mom said to me so many years ago, I was with somebody that cheated on me all the time. And I spent so much time being so gutted and saying her like, why did you do this?

Why didn't you want me? Why did it? And she said in the nicest way possible. Like, why did you stay? you knew that this person was doing this. And, you know, it's helpful to, I guess, ask these questions, but you need to also ask yourself, like, why did I stay? What drew me to this?

How can I correct in the next relationship? And I do try to, like, look at my own role and stuff. And Ashley and I were going back and forth about something recently about this guy. And I did have to say, like, I have participated in this too. And I have tagged this behavior on in my own way. Like, I can't just be like, I hate him, even though I'm mad about something. Like, I participated in it, you know? When you're like, oh, they only text me at 2 o'clock in the morning,

but you go. But you answer. Yeah. Like if you're showing up at their house, why would they not text you the next time, you know? And those things don't help you grow at all when all you do is blame somebody else and not take ownership of your responsibility in it. Okay, I have a question for you.

So when you met your now fiancé, had you been single for a little bit? Like, were you really like, I'm ready to find somebody and settle down? Or were you, like, dating? I'd been like frivolously dating. Like I was just kind of like going on a date here, going on a date there, texting here and there with like different guys or whatever,

but like I had not been in a serious relationship for like a couple of years, I want to say, maybe two years. And I just remember I was at the point of meeting him sick of everything. Like I had not taken a break, but I was in that era of like deleting the dating app, not only deleting it, but like deactivating it. And then 10 minutes later making a great profile over again and like meeting the same people again and again. And I was just kind of at a moment of I think I'll be done if this guy ends up sucking.

You know what I mean? Yeah. This one I marked, which I love this. And it's just if you're not the love of your own life, what's the point? Like that kind of thing. And the ends with you or the love of your life, don't ever forget. I mean, it's just really like made me emotional because that's how we think. Like you should love yourself and feel complete without a partner.

So I was wondering if that came from your own experience and kind of feeling that type of way before you met him. I think like meeting him made me realize how much fun I was having on my own and how much fun I'm having in like a different way because he's around. And, like, I really, really romanticize my life when I was living in my little apartment. Like, I had a few little ones. And they were just, like, crappy and, like, ugly. And I loved it. I had, like, one cup. And I, like, love that time.

You know what I mean? People come to my house, they'd bring their own cup. I was like, I was poor, but it was really fun. Totally. You know, and now we live in, like, this nice house. And we, like, have our beautiful life. And all I can do is romanticize how much fun I had with just me. and I'm like so excited about all the experiences that I got to have because I was by myself.

And like I just love me for that. I think I did such a good job of giving myself such a fun time. And I made such great friends. And I found the guy I was looking for and I did it all just me. And it was like just such a great thing. And it made my life such a cool story, even just what's already happened. And there's so much left. I hope.

But like I love myself more because he is so nice to me, I guess, made me realize that I was, actually pretty great the whole time. Well, also just the single years are so important. Like, I just, I want everyone to experience that. You can't know until it's over. Oh, I know. Sometimes I lay in bed on a Sunday night, just like having my glass of wine, having dinner, watching TV, and I'm like so happy alone.

I'm so happy to have to do with somebody else. It's so nice. I felt like that. I felt it in the moment. Yeah. You always did. Yeah. I was just like, this is the best.

I mean. I wish I, in the moment, I would like find these like core, deep core lonely moments. And those two. Those come. But I wish that I just had a little more of my shit together at that time. So I could have been like, wow, this is so cool. You know? Yeah. Also that.

You know, like when I talk about the most fun being single, it was like when we were like started the pocket house, we're making all this money, we were traveling in the world. When I was in my 20s. When I was in my 20s single, I wasn't like, this is amazing. No. Me and my one cup. You're like, poor. I know you have nothing. My car smells like cigarettes. I was like

I'm out. Like I was a disaster. And now I look back at those times and I'm like some of the biggest struggle points of my life where I was at the grocery store like not buying cheese because it was so expensive. I look back to that and I'm like, wow, that was so fun. Yeah. You know? Yes, totally. Yeah.

Well, can we talk about friendship a little bit? Because you write about friendship breakups and I was asking you what your listeners reach out to you about and you said you get a lot of requests, a lot of song requests for breakup content. No, yeah, for sure. For friendship breakup content. And we talk about a lot on this show. And I think that, like, those are the relationships that get a little less airtime, but they're so, like, the friend breakups are so formative, whether it's like a slow burn or something like really catastrophic.

So can we talk about it for a little bit? Maybe I'll play one of your reals. I was making a close friends list on Instagram and I scrolled past your name. I scrolled past your name and I didn't add you to my list of close friends. I had to stop for a moment in disbelief to come to terms with the fact that you and I are not close friends anymore. We're actually not friends at all. It's funny how when you learn about love, you learn about family and you learn about partners, but you don't learn that much about how deeply you're capable of loving your friends.

How a piece of you can die with a friendship. Okay. Just because I'm so crying. I just, I find it so hard. Like, I mean, I obviously connect with everything I write because I write it, but I'm just, like, picturing me in the closet. Like, I play the piano behind everything, too. You're playing?

Like, after. Like, I'll listen back and be like, let's score this track. But you're doing it? Yeah. Amazing. But, like, when I hear them back, I'm like, whoa, that's, like, it's weird to hear it, like, from, like, in a cool moment. like this. But anyways, yeah, friendship breakups are one of the most fucked up kind of

breakup of experience. I really truly believe that. Yeah, because you're not supposed to. Like, yeah, we all know you're supposed to find one partner. That's whatever you're into monogamy. And yeah, whatever you want to do. You can only have one. Yeah. You know, if that's what the life you want, which is like probably the norm, but who cares, do what you want. So it's like, you know you're going to break up and go through these relationships and that's not really what you're, you're not taught that about friends. You're like, friends are forever and why. want to sell or want to sell, man. Like, you're supposed to keep all your friends.

That's obviously also not true. But I think it's harder for so many reasons and it feels so personal. Well, you don't get told that you like love your friends in that way. You're not like, oh, like you love your friends as much as you love your partner. And if something happens, that's going to break your heart. Like, that's not something we learn about. You learn about like divorce and like breakups from monogyn relationships, whatever, or whatever relationship you're in.

If you break up with all your partners, that's fine. Like that would really hurt too. But there's also what I noticed a lot when I post about friendship and stuff. There are a lot of people who come in, they're like, I don't have that one best friend. And I always want to be like, you don't need just one that comes to mind. That's kind of like your one romantic partner. It's just everybody that you kind of find along the way, even if it's somebody that you stay at work every day. It's still there. It's like a support system. And I validate those people's pain as well. Like, because that is tough. I was talking to someone

recently who was struggling with something and he feels like he doesn't really have that like person. And I'm his friend, but not his best friend. And, you know, he can lean on me, but we're not going to be like Raina and I. Yes, exactly. You know, the first, the emergency contact first call type of thing. And so I feel for people who don't have that. It's almost a longing that you feel for not having a romantic partner. Yeah.

I don't have that best friend. And there's a multitude of reasons. I mean, some people are more shy. Some people have moved around a lot. They're neurodivergent. Whatever reason. But it's, that hurts, too. So I, like, feel for people that you see that are,

watching this content about friend breakups and they're like, I don't even have a best friend to have a breakup with. I almost think that it can almost be harder to not have any friends and to like not have a partner because through that, you still have people. That's my life. I think that's a hot day. No,

that's life is better than mine. I'm sure my friends. Exactly. No, that's less. I'm just going to clip that and be like, rain is the worst. No one's life is better than mine. A couple people's are better than mine.

But if your friends make your life what it is and like, I don't know, I would leave like, and nights out with Steve, like we live together, so we'll go for dinner and sit there. And we're like, we live together.

We already talked about everything. You know, like we're here on this trip together. We're having the best time. Like we have a few drinks. I start chatting. And then eventually we're like, but like with your friends,

I feel like it just, the conversation never dies. And there's always something to talk about. And especially when you have newer friends, you're like catching them up on things that happened to you before that they met you. And there's like different levels of friends and you have ones from when you're young

and when you're older. And I think adult friends and they, There's something about that in there. But, like, I think it's, like, one of the most wholesome friendships you can find because when you're a kid, you're kind of forced into each other because you're learning everything. And then when you're an adult, you pick your friends based on what they've already been through. And, like, all these things that you think were the worst, other people think that's the best part about you.

And I think that's the coolest thing about the friends you make when you're grown up. I love that. And I want to tag on to what I said about people who, like, don't have a best friend. It's like, it's also never too late. Yeah. You can make a new friend any day. I was 32, 33. I think I haven't been 34.

Okay. Anyway. It's like the weirdest way. 30s and we're just like family. Do you have like a weird way you've met a friend in your like adult life? Jenny? Yeah. Jenny is weird.

Yeah. Well, I guess a lot of us meet on the internet. That's, yeah. Sort of on the internet. I had this blog and I was looking for contributors at the time. I was trying to kind of grow and scale it. And a girl I knew from Atlanta was like my friend Jenny is so funny. She should contribute to the blog.

So she emails me and we collaborate on this blog. And then we just became like, we didn't even have each other's number. We were like email here and there. And then I hooked up with this guy and met him. on Tinder. He put some of them in the double tree downtown in Atlanta. He was there for business. I took a cookie on the way out.

And then he was like, you should come to Austin. And I was like, yeah, I'll come to Austin and fuck you again. And so I like emailed Jenny or DM or I'm like, what's your number? Like, let's be real friends. And I'm like, I think I'm going to come fuck this guy in Austin. She lived in Austin. I'm like, can I also hang out with you? And she's like, yeah.

So then. I get a, then I get a boyfriend. And I was like, I'm not going to go stay with that guy in Austin, but I still want to hang out with Jenny. So you went? So, yeah, so I was like, hey, I have a boyfriend now. She'd been following along on Instagram. She knew I had a boyfriend. And I was like, because I'm not going to see that guy from Tinder, but I'd still have to come to Austin to hang out with you.

She's like, well, you can stay with me. Oh, God. So I go stay with her, never met her in person. I kind of pregame the meeting because I was like, I know she's going to be cool, but like, it's still weird. And I'm going back to her apartment with her. Like, I slept in her bed with her. But it's like, but it's actually, but that's the thing about girls.

And I truly think that there's, girlhood just like starts when you're young and then it never ends. No man has this story. No, like men don't do this. I recently had this girl reached out to me in an email. She lives in Calgary where I live and she was like, her name's Shela. She's like, hey, I noticed that like in the background of some of your videos, you got some janky ass blinds.

Like they look really bad. She's like, I have a blinds company. Can I come fix your blinds? And I was like, I'm a blinds. Okay. She comes to my house and she like brings all her blinds stuff. And she's in my kitchen and we're just chatting about life. and the blinds and she did a couple extra ones in the house and now she's coming to my wedding.

Really? Oh yeah. Like I was like, do you want to come to my wedding? I love that story. Just invite them. Like you're with her all the time now. Oh, do the blinds at the wedding. Yeah. And the blinds look great. She did such a good job. I was reading a book this morning. So, we've an interview right after you for Lindsay and Krista who do almost 30 and they have a book coming out. And they talked about friendships in your early 20s as being like contextual friendships. So you have a lot of friends just from like where you grew up or your sorority you were in or at work. They're sort of like your nine to five friends. And it's hard to like let those go kind of.

But in my 30s, I have a different type of contextual friend where I'm like, well, I have friends that I go to the movies with. I have friends that I'll go on food adventures. Like I have friends that I'm like, let's go to Korea Town and bop around to three places we've never heard of. And they're like, yes, done. Like I have those friends. I have party friends.

I have travel friends. And that's nice as you get older. Like I do have like two best friends in the world. I'm really lucky. I have two people that are just like family to me. And that's Ashley and my other best friend. But like I have all these other friends that just they're for this and that. Those are really valuable to me in my 30s.

It can be so nice. It sometimes can be a little bit overwhelming when you, like, need to get everyone together because they don't all know each other. And then you have to try to talk to everybody at the same time. Like my bachelor's, nobody knows each other. Oh, I'm doing too. I had to divide them up. Oh, they've all messaged me, like, can I sleep with you?

And I'm like, no, I can't sleep with everyone. Like, you guys have to get to know each other. We have to share beds. I don't know what to do. Who's going to sleep with me? I'm going to sleep with her. I'm going to be like, girls always get along. Well, that's actually such a lie.

Some of them will mostly get along, I think. we said about the friends in your 20s, you grow apart from them. Unfortunately, like the friends that you met in college, friends you met in high school, like kind of, especially if you don't live in town anymore, every time you see them, you're either going to have more and more in common and be like no time has passed or you're going to really feel the time in the past and that you don't really have that much in common anymore. And that can be also like a really shitty kind of friendship breakup where like nothing happened and you just stop talking. Yeah. And we say friendships run their course. They really do. And if it starts to feel really forced and difficult and

conversations. And I have so examples that are like people from college that still feel like family and they know me on such a different level. We do not talk all the time, you know, but they're all coming to the wedding, coming to the bachelorets and everything. And then there's people from college that we did just stop being friends. And that's okay too. And some of this is like, you know, based on lifestyle values, the way of the world today. I think you sometimes look at people like we just don't look at the world the same way and our values don't align. There's that too. And that ripped people apart and that's okay too. That's a really hard one where you kind of see other people's values.

I've got values, of course. I'm not very vocal about them. I feel like if someone's super vocal and not open to hear your opinions, it also makes it kind of harder to keep a friendship alive. But like my mom has her friends from high school and every year they go on a trip still. My mom too. She's like, she's almost 70. You know, like your girl's friends.

They're like laughing and like going swimming in this weird lake that they love. Totally. Have fun, you know, but every time she comes back, they have a name for them. I won't be able to think of it, but they have a nickname for all for all four. of them. That's, I know, my mom has high school and college and present, like her friends that she's made. I mean, she has three friend groups.

I love the idea that it just goes on and on forever and on. Yeah. It can. And she's been married to my dad this whole time. Yeah. And he's like probably doesn't even remember half the name. He's like one friend. Well, guys.

And this is the thing. He couldn't relate less. I don't think that we acknowledge men's friendships enough because so many situations for men is like they're friends from high school and they are all still friends. And then they just don't make any new friends ever again. Like, that's like, you have the same friends and the same subway sandwich order

and it never changes. Yeah. And like Steve's friends are his buddies. And I've just gotten close to a bunch of his buddies' wives. Like two of them are in our wedding. Like, it's amazing. But boys just keep their friends and they don't get sick of each other.

Well, there's like a lack thereof of like new friends. We've talked about this on episodes for a long time. And I think about how women bond and men bond. And like, when I meet a new friend, we're sharing stories. We're emotional.

We're talking about breakups or families. stuff and you form this bond with somebody very quickly. Whereas like men, like one guy will go through a breakup and go out with his other guy friend and he comes home and you're like, what do they break up for? And they have no information. And you're like, what do you just didn't ask? I know. Like that's not all men lack death like that.

And but like even the men that are like that, I think have really deep relationships with me and their girlfriends. But with two men, they're not talking about this. No, they don't talk to each other about it. Like I'll hang out with a girl for the first time and I'll be like, you'll never believe about her relationship with her dad. Like, it's just like mine. And then I'll come home and his buddy just got engaged in Italy. And I'm like, how did he do it? He's like, I don't know.

No idea. Okay. I think my fiance is great at connecting people and making friends actually, but even some of the stuff he doesn't know. Yeah. I'm like, I'll ask them myself then. You're like, I could get that information immediately right now. Yeah. To ask the question. Like, even like someone that's really close to him is like moving and I'm like, why are they moving? He's like, I don't know. I'm like, yeah, but they said they would never move there. And he's like, well, I don't know. I'm not getting this information myself. You're moving. Why?

Yeah. That's so funny. It's like sort of the fault of men, but like I think having emotions and talking about your feelings is like you're a pussy. So like men don't bring it up and talk about it. No, it's more just like, and I mean, especially when it's with these friends that you've had since you were six years old, you're just like, we'll figure it out. Right. You're just accepting what they're saying and letting it. But it's funny.

He just doesn't fly the other way around. Like I'll tell a story and Steve will be like, and I'm like, yeah. You need questions? Yeah. Ask me a question. It's so funny you talk about being. and like dinner with him and like not having anything to talk about because you live together. And like I refuse to be a couple that's not talking in a restaurant.

No. So the other night we were at dinner and we were kind of tapped out. We've been together like the whole weekend. I couldn't believe you went out to dinner after we spent the whole day during activity. That's hard though. Sometimes we just like, I don't know how she did it. And we have a lot to, we're buddies. We have a lot of stuff.

We're not best friends. But we have a lot to talk about. And like I was like, okay, let's rank our top five favorite dates. Yeah. I was like, I literally will pull something out of my ass with each other or just in the, in life, not with each other. Can you better with other people? Like three other things on your five are just not with it?

That's my next thing. Like your worst date, it's not with me. But literally I made him sit there. We had a fun conversation of our top five favorite dates. But sometimes you realize too when you're out with your partner, like we don't talk enough at home. Like we've been out here in L.A. for the first time. And we had two nights where we really sent it home.

Like we had a lot of cocktails and we're just like laughing and having the best night. And I'm like, we should do this at home. And he's like, I don't think we should pick up drinking this much at home. But, like, other than that, yes, we could, like, chat more at home. We should get a truck for at home. That's great. I like talking about that, though, that some people just, not that you have, but, like, you kind of stop seeing each other at home.

You're just, like, they're in one corner of the house doing their thing. Yeah, totally. And it's just like you forget to have those conversations because you don't have to. Well, it just sometimes gets, like, a little repetitive, right? Like, someone comes home, how was your day? Good. You? Was it actually good?

I don't know, like, you know, or if you have completely different jobs or you've already kind of talked everything out with everybody else throughout the day. And that's the joy of being in love and having it be easy because sometimes you can just shut the fuck up and not say anything and they're not going to be mad about it, you know? Totally. But yeah, it's definitely important to still explore those questions. Ask those questions. Have it in your back pocket.

Wait, I have a question for you. Okay, your two top five lists, his and yours, were they similar or totally different? Yeah, it was kind of a, I want to encourage people to do this with their partners. It turned into like a collaborative list where we were kind of like, are they were our top. Five is a lot, by the way. Like three. I could recall three. But we've been on so many dates because we were long distance.

Like we're able to be like, what about when we were in Chicago. Like we were able to really. We would have met up in cool places too. Yeah. Yeah. And like our first date was just the most epic date of all time. Like we both agree. At Alice.

But then we went to up and up and had cocktails. And then we went and danced at the folly. We were making out clearing beer bottles around us. I was like straddling him on that couch. Like it was just an epic New York date. They started having this. He took the train in New York to meet. And she was having the like pre-drinks.

before dinner with him. And me and like my other best friend and one of our friends were hiding in the window. You did that. Oh my God. We look so uncomfortable too. He's just kind of hunched over. Did you have pictures of them? Yeah, we'll put on the screen.

Yeah. I took pictures. And it's funny. Like I always think you don't know that you're living such a special moment. Like I know you don't. I get like sort of emotional thing. My other best friend is getting married. And I remember the day that she was like going on her first date with him.

We were in our early 20s. were kids and she was like, I have to take this guy out to dinner. It was a work thing. Yeah. And we were just like, he's so old. He's like 29. Oh, God. He was like 28 or 29.

We were like, he's so old. But like I feel emotional. Like going to their like they're getting married. And I just think like I didn't know I was living such a pivotal moment in their life in that moment. In that moment. Like I remember Corey's text of this first date with Ham. This is my best friend from my other best friend.

But, and we've been friends since we were four. like what should I wear? Like I have it in my favorites. You know, just like that's the man that she's like has three kids with now. You know. Oh, I know. And you just don't ever know when that's like in the midst of unfolding. But that's why I love that trend online right now called like the butterfly effect trend

or whatever you're like, so you're telling me that if I didn't do XYZ, I never met this person. And it's like you could have just stayed home. And you can use it in a bad context like what we were talking about earlier when you meet someone and you hate them and you wish you never met them. Like, oh, I should have stayed home. But like imagine I stayed home or if I didn't accept that job or. The trip I was supposed to go on that I met Ashley.

on. I tried to cancel it repeatedly. I just, I couldn't line the dates up because I had these two weddings in between this week. And I was like, if you guys can't make it these exact dates, it was like an influencer trip. I was like, I just can't come. Can you imagine? I changed the date for Raina. Well, you said, was it your radio co-host that picked a picture for you? Yeah. So you were only going to go on one of the dates with the two app. And did you ever ask him why he chose that guy. It was just a vibe. I think he said he looked, he liked the way he looked. Yeah. We did that with Bella. who was before Tessa, she had two guys on her hinge and we picked one as well.

And she dated him for years. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. See, that's crazy. I literally was just like, which one? I just screenshot at both profiles and he was like scrolling back and forth. I also just met my co-host like a week before.

So we were all new friends and whatever. Oh, my God. And then it actually ended up being really serendipitous too because deep in the suburbs where we live, my co-host lives one walk away. So I ended up moving and seeing him every single day and living in his neighborhood. And he was like, great. Should I pick the other guy? Now I'm with you all the time.

Yeah, I can't escape you. That is, oh, you know, it was Ashley and we'd met you today, and you were like, should I go out, Drew or Steve? We would have said, not Steve. Not Steve. Not Steve. Because in America, in America, Steve's a real problem. It's just, it's the name thing. Really?

It's like, trust no Steve, trust no Chris. Like, we would have gone with Drew. We would have gone through. But we, not if we saw, we could have seen the photos and changed our minds. But also, you guys are Canadian. It's different. In America, it's a problem. And he's Stephen with a pH.

Oh, love it. And I really led, like, went into that because I love Taylor Swift. and she has a song called Hey Stephen. So I like also is leaning into that. We love a Stephen with the pH. Yeah. It's better. Yeah.

For sure. We approve. Way better. And I just want to wrap up with the book. And did you have any feelings, imposter syndrome, like writing a poetry book? Like I had to talk her out of it on our call. I was like, maybe I was like, you ever have other nobody's on your podcast? She's like, what?

But I, yeah, like for sure. I think like, I don't know if you guys believe in manifesting and stuff. We live in L.A. Okay, yeah, true. You have to. You can't live here. I don't, but this kind of made me be like, oh, I guess maybe that does work. But I had compiled all my poetry into, like, a book form just to see what it would look like.

And then, like, the next day I got an email from an agent that found me on TikTok. And her name's Kelly. She's the best. And she's my literary agent, and she hooked me up with Simon Lleman where my book's coming out. And I actually almost didn't take her call because I was going to self-publish my fake little book that I made on Amazon. And she was like, just give me five minutes. And that's another one of those standipitous thing. But yeah, writing this book gave me complete imposter syndrome.

I recently went in to record the audio book in like a studio in town where I live. And I was just like reading it being like, this is mine. And also you're overthinking everything that's in there. So I was like, hopefully this was the right one to put in or like, I wish I'd have rearranged these two words or like whatever. But yeah, 100%. And I talk all the time to my friends about like, what if everyone hates it? But I think that's everybody. Everyone's going to love it.

Yeah, I hope so. Okay. So I don't have all your content in the book and your TikTok memorized. But is there a crossover? Or is this all fresh? It's like 60, 40. Okay. So like 60 new?

Okay. 40. So people will recognize some stuff from, which I think is great. I clipped out like or picked my like favorite ones. Great. And then put in some brand new ones that nobody's ever seen before. It's like a quick read because it's like poetry. But I've seen some people who have gotten in advance copy talk about how they like to read it slow.

I used to love this poetry book by Shell Silverstein when I was little called Falling Up. I don't know if you've heard of him. Shell Silverstein wrote The Giving Tree. Yes. Well, so much. And I used to love just opening up to one random page. Totally. A kid and just reading it and getting sad about it and closing it and going to bed.

Well, that's whatever you're feeling. Yeah. It's in what loving, longing and living. Yeah, like three chapters. Yeah. There's just really good thought starters. I mean, I listen to you speak and it just makes me think about my own relationships, mistakes I've made, things I want to change, things I'm really proud of.

And like, I think it's nice to just read a thing, marinate on it. Write your own journal entry, you know? Yeah. Thank you for saying that. Okay. Okay, so a final question. Do you have a favorite? Favorite poem?

Yeah. In this book? Yeah. Oh, God. Our top three, top five favorite. Top five. And you don't have to answer, but is there a few or even a few that just you're like extra proud of or you feel the strongest about?

I love the sad ones. Like those are my favorite. I love the ones that I've written about like Steve, my fiance, because I love them and stuff. So like I'm happy to have been able to put some of that in there. But I love the ones that are sad. And there's one that I. that I was super proud of and it's like I go back to your chapter all the time. I read it again and again. Only this is consistent is that it ends. And it's basically just like how many times

you can go through the same story in your head, revamp it with your friends, even telling your new partner about something that happened you with another partner. And every single time, you're like finding ways to put new notes in the margins of the story being like, but what if this, and even if it doesn't really matter, it's not a really choice. You're just going to keep opening it again. I really love that one. I love that. And then I really love the one that like kind of launched me out there to everybody, the public pool one that we talked about off the top, just solely because it gave me such a cool opportunity. And I loved watching people's videos that they made to it.

And seeing so many bodies that look like my body and like so many women like being like, I'm actually going to post this for the first time and like show the way that I look and all this stuff and just feel proud of it instead for the first time. And I just thought that that was the coolest thing ever. And it also like selfishly just gave me a lot of really cool opportunities. When I'm scrolling and I get served your voice stitched over like people and I love it suits and it just it really like makes me cry. It really really fucks me up when people do like I have a couple poems about dogs and they'll put like pictures and like videos of their dogs that passed away and I don't know. I don't say it. I couldn't even look. No, absolutely. Sometimes I have to like I'll be I'll come back at like favorite it but yeah. Oh my gosh. Well you guys get ready for this book. Read it with a pen. Make notes in the margins. Take breaks if you need to. I don't know. It just really got to me emotionally. It's wonderful. So you know you're the voice of a generation.

I'm excited you're here. I discovered you last summer and I just was like, I know Ashley was going to love you so much. I'm honestly so grateful to be able to sit here and chat with you guys. I know everybody probably says that, but like this is so fucking cool. I think you guys are so awesome and I just like love that I was able to come here and chat with you. And also selfishly that got to come to LA because I've never been. So that was cool. Oh, this is your first time in LA?

Yeah. If you need any racks, we'll hit you after. Well, I'm going to the airport after this, but next time. The airport's great. I'm going to send her down at a bikini before. But your book, I hope you remember, is out for pre-order today. I think it's out tomorrow. Yeah, it's up tomorrow.

If you guys are listening. But get it. And also just anywhere else people can find you, tell people your Instagram and anything else you want. Just at Josie Welka, the way it's spelled on whatever you're listening to this on all platforms. Okay, great. Instagram and TikTok. And you guys know where to find us, Girls Gottoeatat.com. I am Ash Hess.

Raina is reina. dot Greenberg. Girls Got Eat Podcast on Instagram and TikTok. Subscribe and YouTube. Share this episode with a friend. Get Josie's book. And we will see Thursday. Have a great week, guys.

Bye.