Girls Gotta Eat - The Rules of F*ck Buddies and Sexual Slumps with Shan Boodram

Episode Date: June 20, 2022

We are so happy to welcome back one of our faves, sexologist/author/intimacy educator Shan Boodram, and cover some incredible topics. Shan walks us through her fuck buddy turned husband, how to set boundaries and navigate a fuck buddy situation, and speaking up when someone's communication isn't doing it for you. We're also discussing rekindling with "the one that got away" and working through sexual slumps with your partner. Lastly, Shan is giving some exceptional masturbation tips so you can end the episode and get right to it. Before she joins us, we're discussing Ashley's hydration journey, Rayna's embarrassing ex moment, and tips for living the boat life. Enjoy! Follow Shan on Instagram @ShanBoody, check out her podcast Lovers & Friends, and visit her website for more. Follow us @GirlsGottaEatPodcast, Ashley @AshHess, and Rayna @Rayna.Greenberg. Visit our website for tour dates, merchandise, and more. Get your vibes at vibesonly.com, download the app on the App Store (Android coming soon), and follow @VibesOnly. Thank you to our partners this week: Babbel: Visit babbel.com/gge for up to 60% off your subscription. Liquid Death: Get free shipping on all water and merch liquiddeath.com/gge. Truff: Get 15% off site-wide with promo code GGE at truff.com. Osea: Get 10% off your first order with promo code GGE at oseamalibu.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What do I do to make sure that I like myself within this? Like, what do I have to do to make sure that I'm the coolest, most relaxed, sexiest, happiest version of me? Episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Raina's birthday week. We're recording the day before your birthday. Well, I guess technically when this comes out. Yeah, it'll be after your birthday.

But still, it's still like within the week. We're on a boat tomorrow because we're never not on a boat. That's our tradition. People act like I'm so crazy for always wanting to be on a boat. what do you want to do? Be on a dusty bar? There's nothing wrong with a dusty bar, but, I mean, they're accessible.

I mean, like, last year that boat was dusty, and it was cheap and it was amazing. I doubled the prices here on the boat, and there's half as many people coming. Yeah, I mean, but it's like, if you don't have to go that hard, like you can, like, people are like, oh my God, how did you jet ski in the Hudson?

I'm like, I just booked it through the company. Just Google it. Just Google it. Like, it's not anybody. I mean, yeah, it costs money, but it's not so exclusive. It's not like flying private. No.

You too can take a boat. Out. Like there's also like, remember we took that lobster boat? That was just like a ticketed. Like there's always like experiences that are just like the same prices like going to dinner. Do you remember back in the day when we used to like record all day together and go socialize alone together? Just couldn't wait to hang out. We went on that lobster boat alone.

Yeah, that lobster boat. The North River Lobster Company, I think. It's like 10 bucks. But I just think it's funny when people are like, oh my God, like a boat in New York. It's like, you know, we live on an island. I'm finally going to address my hydration journey today. That's really why we're going on at a boyfriend birthday, so she could be one with the water.

Well, wait, am I a water sign? I am, right? Yeah, cancer's a water sign. You know what? I was just going to bring it back to me in cancer season, but it's still Jevonautin season. That wasn't fair. I haven't been trolled yet.

By cancer season, we're on the precipice. Well, someone sent me this great reel that broke down when you're born. within cancer. And it was so accurate because I'm a Scorpio cancer. Oh, like is it like the end of June. Like the end of June, like the end of June cancers, July 1st, the 10th cancers. And then the next third after that. And it was like really accurate as like so hard working, super hot. No, but it's like I am, you know, I'm Scorpio rising. But anyway, okay. So listen, guys, here's how to get on a boat. Oh, yeah. So here's that. So Ashley actually actually found. this last year and we didn't end up using it. And so it's called Classic Harbor Line. And I'm

looking at their website. I guess they're in Boston, Key West and New York and Newport, Rhode Island, to all of some of my favorite places. They cater it. There's a bar. Adam there. Shout out to Adam. He had his son's graduation he had to run to, but he booked it all for me really quickly. And it's great if you guys want to go on a boat. Yeah. There's tons of different companies. Obviously, that's a good one. And there's just a great way if you want to get on a boat is just Airbnb experiences. I love them. Like when we were in Sydney. we went on that boat, like a private boat. You can look up like Airbnb experiences,

like Google Sunset Cruises. Like there's a great company in Key West. I know that called like Danger Charters or something that does like a sailboat at sunset. I said my brother and staff did it for their honeymoon. Okay. So we have such a great episode today with Shan part two. I loved it.

What we ended up talking about was not exactly what I expected. This whole like for our fuck buddy thing. And she's just so wonderful. We're so obsessed with her. And you know, we got to know her on the first. episode and this is a more like deep diving on some of these topics that are so great. You guys are going to love it the whole time we were recording with her. I was just dying. It was so good.

Yeah. I love her. I recorded with her this week. You've been on her show as well. So you can both listen to me and Ashley on her show. But she's such a phenomenal guest and really just so well spoken. We're obsessed with her. You guys are a lover. Yeah. So a new development, recent development is that I realized that my ex and I got the same tattoo within five days of each other. Oh my God. I can't believe this happened. I have like 20 tattoos. It's not that crazy. Like I would get the same. tattooist something because it's a smiley face. Like that is not a unique tattoo, but the fact that this person who like has almost no tattoos got this tattoo and did it first. Yeah. I copied him. It's so embarrassing. So, um, I just thought it was like really funny. I've been really in my

tattoo game lately. I've been getting a lot. I'm going to keep getting more. I'm more in the bank. I just, I don't know. I'll fill it up. We'll see what happens. But, um, it was just this like crazy coincidence. We were like in the car. I don't really look at any of my exes that much on social media and I was like Ashley can you look him up and we like were deep diving and we found out that I got the same tattoo as him. There is nothing I love more than someone assigning a stalking mission to me. They're like, can you get in there? I'm like, yes. I would be honored to do it. I mean, you guys know we say all the time I stock Ashley's exes way more than Ashley does. I'm in there all the time in these streets. I know. You sent me this thing about this guy the other day and his girlfriend

and I switched to my Finsta and I got in her heart stuff. I know. I know. Yes. So I have been on this hydration journey, you guys. I would love to talk about it. So I feel like everybody, we can always be more hydrated. I would consider myself prior to really like committing to drinking more water. I was like a person that drank a ton of water. I've never in my life besides one night in Mexico City, which was like I was in panic mode, gone to sleep without a glass of water by my bed. I can't even fathom it. I can't even imagine it going to bed without water. I think I drink more water than the average person. But I was like, I want to drink more water. Bella really inspired me. She has this giant water bottle. I hate so much. And it's always in the way. We'll talk about it on Bella's

episode, which is coming very soon. So I was like, I'm going to get a big water bottle like that and just commit to like drinking more. I'm not up to like a gallon, but it is like changed my life. Like when I asked Bella about her hydration journey, she was like, I just wake up easier. I just feel better throughout the day. Like we've been going so hard and I like haven't been getting sick. I haven't been feeling. I mean, I'll get tired here and there, but I haven't been feeling as run down. I said I feel like my vagina's wetter. I just feel like I have more energy. I feel like I look better.

I'm like, why is my skin look better? Like, I just feel so good. This isn't like a hot take. But I, again, thought I was a hydrated person before

and just took it to the next level and I'm a person that carries around a giant water bottle now. So drink more water, you guys, and we have a water sponsor today. I didn't even plan this. I can't,

well, you just wait till I get to talk about liquid death. Just wait. I also think we've just been drinking less alcohol and you added in your hydration journey. I mean, I barely drink is what it. I'm just going to come out and say it. Like the last time I had like a mild hangover was March.

What was March? Bobby and Izzy's engagement thing. Okay. Stuff that I'm doing that I would have drank more at. I'm having, I'm usually, I just don't, I'm not into it. I know. I'm slowly not into as much either. You know, I'm in my jawline journey. I'm trying to get a jaw line. And so I've been drinking the same amount of water, we're drinking less alcohol. I mean, you don't, you didn't have as much to back down as I did. I'm, I'm a five nights a week. Yeah. I'm like always, I've been a moderate drinker for a long time now, but I had, I mean, a few times earlier in the year where I was like, I just hate

feeling like this. Yep. I'm still drinking. I still have drinks. I just don't like go hard. I mean, we were at a friend's house all day and Saturday. I feel like I was just drink. I just drink slower than everybody. I am also, I'm up later for longer without alcohol. Like at that dinner, I stopped drinking and we were like up for like four more hours. I feel like my body processes. It's not like a hot take you guys. But I feel like I haven't been getting hangovers as much. Or at all, really. If you like hangover, I don't even know her. It has been so long. Like, I'm just saying, I feel great.

I feel great, too. We're killing it. Yeah. No hangovers. I'm not having conversations. I don't remember. Yeah, I still love my, love a margarita. It's just like, I'm usually having like one or two and that's that.

Had a jello shot in Dewey. Okay. So we, as far as like what's going on in our lives, it's the company. So we're not going to deep dive on. vibes, but we have some things we wanted to cover. But before that, we haven't talked about watching TV in weeks. I don't even know if you've been watching anything. I haven't been fucking it's all I do. All we do is run this company. I am under, I'm under maintenance. I'm under self-care maintenance. We get manicures, microblading, care and treatment. I'm not fucking,

I'm doing all the maintenance. And then I'm watching TV at night. What are you watching? Three things. I have reignited Schitt's Creek. What? I watched it during COVID and I just, I felt like I don't care about this. I liked the characters, but I felt like I don't care that much. Hot take, shit's great. But I'm re-watching it. I'm like re-in-love with it. You are? Yeah. Okay. I'm obsessed with it. It's my mom's favorite show. I know it is. And your mom told me it was her favorite show and she was so sad. The season finale happened. So I'm really enjoying it the second time around. Because I don't, listen, I don't listen. COVID-Rena. I don't know who she was. George. George, stop trying to have sex with his old. He's out of control. Yesterday he came in here. All he does is in. George ran head first into my leg trying to get to his old. All he does. All he does. I think people probably heard me to say that and they were like, wow, Ashley, that was a stern tone.

But all he does is like Azul's face and Azul doesn't like it and his nose is chapped. Like he doesn't want it right now. George stays trying to have sex with Azul. Azul cannot be by. Actually, he knocked me off my feet yesterday. He ran so fast into my leg. George's tongue get tired. All he does is lick Azul.

You know, he like, can you see George just like practicing at night? Like, I'm going to see Azul tomorrow working that tongue out. Got to get those reps in. George's a guy. It just would be a dream. She just never gets tired of looking. So my Shets Creek journey has been, like, I couldn't get so into it, but the characters are my favorite.

I mean, Daniel Levy, the son, Eugene and Daniel Levy, I mean, is just my favorite. And you know, Twyla, that's Daniel Lee, that's, I'm Eugene's daughter. So that was my disconnect with the show as I was obsessed with every single character. I think it's the most brilliant characters ever written. I thought, like, I don't care about this show.

In Cathedral of Hara. Yes, she's phenomenal. And I feel like I don't care about this show. Now I care about it. I care about it now. And so I'm watching that. Stay sweet, pray, and obey. Oh my gosh.

Everybody's talking about this. Is it fucked up? I mean, listen, you know, I know everything about cults. Just FYI, you guys. One day, we are going to have a cult. No, I'm not even going to say it because somebody will steal our pitch. Catch us on Netflix. I'm just going to explain.

When we do another thing. We don't have enough. We don't have enough. on her plate. I go to sleep every night with so many text messages between you and me and the people we worker that I wake up to a billion of them too. It never sleeps. It feels abusive. It feels it feels underwater. People like, how's it going? I'm like, I just have been unloading on people. Like I was with Katie Storino yesterday, Megababe, her company at her five-year anniversary and then Jilly Hendricks, who you guys might know, she started a vodka company. But I mean,

we're just sitting around talking. I was like, it's so cool to be around. female founders, and we're talking about all this stuff. But meanwhile, we're just like, I want to die. This is so hard. Like, Katie was like, yeah, bitch. It's fucking hard. I go to bed every night. You and the other people we work with are up so much later than May.

Like, I try to draw a boundary at 9 p.m. And I'm just like, I'm like, I don't want to lean into this. I don't want to do any more work. I just have a couple hours to myself. But you guys are up all night. So I'm like, well, you guys are working. I have to be like listening to this. So like, I wake up to a million texts.

And then you wake up to a million texts. I wake up in the morning and get in there. I know. it's just, we'll get through this. It's just, it feels really overwhelming right now, like, because it's like vibes, girls got to eat. And then I'm also doing stand-up. It feels like pretty unmanageable.

But I mean, we're just trying to self-care. But we need to talk about the cults. I don't know how we went down this road. We're just spiraling and we're unloading on you guys. And this is what you get. You're part of the family. But I'm also a whole year older tomorrow. I mean, it's probably about that this morning.

Yeah, I'm older than you don't even. I know. I knew I wasn't going to have a sympathetic ear to this one. But like, I was, watching TV. I'll talk about All-American is back. And I took like one episode where I just watched, I had my phone in the other room and I was like, this feels so nice. I know. Once a little dark chocolate. You've got to do it. Sometimes you've got to put the phone down for like, oh, 20 minutes, girl, feels so good. Okay. So what I've been hearing about this. Everybody's talking about it.

It's called doc. It's about the FLDS, which is a religion. It's an extremist sect of Christianity. Oh, this is not that doctor that impregnated all those women. So that is the other one I've been watching, our father. So there's two really fucked up docu-series on Netflix, and that's what I'm watching before I go to sleep in the night to just like unwind. Unwined. Just like abusive children and women. So Stay Sweet, Prana Bay is about like Warren Javson.

I mean, it's not a cult, it's a religious sect, but cult-like. And I mean, the leaders of this church were saying they're like prophets and they're 85 years old marrying 16-year-old girls. Oh, my God. Horrifying the abuse of war. women and children. So it's not a secret. You can Google it. I mean, there's tons of information about it. But if you guys are into cults and religious abuse, it's a sad watch, but very interesting. And then our father is also Netflix about that doctor that he was doing like artificial

insemination of women and he was using his sperm. So he impregnated dozens and dozens of women. I've been on the lighter side. Oh, God. So All-American is back. I didn't even know. Jackie and Merrill fired up the group chat to talk about it. So season four is back. on Netflix. So, I mean, it was on CW before, but it's on Netflix. So I've been diving into that. You know, they give us seasons with like 50 episodes. It's such a dream. So I'm really loving it. And then Hacks season two. Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah, which Rana doesn't love hacks as much as me. During that period of time, Raina was like White Lotus and I was like hacks. But I love it so I laugh out loud a lot. I love it so much. And you know I love Vegas now. I wish you guys

see the way she moved her body when she's like, Raina's like White Lotus. And I'm like, We both loved it, but you were more into White Lotus. I was more into hacks, but it surprises me. I love shows that are so unpredictable. You never know what's going to happen. I love the characters. I love the comedy. I just, I'm really, really into hacks.

Oh, I loved it. I think it's a really smart show. It's a watch. The watch is great. The watch is great. It's a great watch. And I'll definitely watch season two. Okay, I forgot about this.

But those are, I mean, I still have so much left of all American. It's crazy. How much? I got to get in there. Do you watch that, though? I've never seen it. Oh. What's about?

Oh my God. No, we're not. No, that's an insult to me. I've only talked about it. I talked about it for a month straight. What's it about? Fuck you. Oh, my God.

Okay, so, listen, we're just going to do a quick... You said, fuck you. The only time in four and a half years you said that to me on the show. Maybe once ever in person, never on the show. I mean, I don't say it seriously. Oh, my God. It's your birthday. It's your birthday. So we're going to do a quick vibe check. Right now. I just take something so funny that happened. So at this point in my life, there's just vibrators out all the time because I'm having to like do stuff with them. I mean, I'm masturbating. Yeah, I'm masturbating with them, but no big secret there. But I have to like, you know, program them and do all the stuff. Yeah, product stuff. So I don't know what happened. I was doing something with one of the stories. I was checking out like I was, you know, I was DJing it basically. I was setting up the automatic vibration. vibes for it. We'll dive into that a little bit more. We know you guys have some questions.

And I don't think I left it on when I left the house, but I came home. It was bouncing around on the floor. It was a fucking Roomba. I was like, what is this? Like, to walk in, I was like, what is happening? It was all dusty, covered in Azul's hair, just bouncing around on the floor. Which vibrator? My Ashley. Ashley won, like a mic. Just bouncing on all. I mean, crazy. That is so funny. It was very funny. I don't even remember what I did, but I was on the phone with somebody and I was like, hold on a second.

I have to turn my vibrator off. It's just bouncing around. It was under the kitchen table. It was like moving around. It's a testament to how long it stays charged. Now powerful it is guys. But I just thought that was like so funny. I really had to wipe that down.

It's just a zool's hair just covered. Well, it looks like a microphone. It's the funniest mic drop. Which means at some point it threw itself off the table. Like, it flung itself on the table. Azul is in the home. Azul was probably freaked out. Like, he was like, curled up on the couch while the vibrators just go in on the floor.

So we launched the Vives Only app. We are so excited. You guys have been downloading it like crazy. Thank you. Keep doing it. Something to clarify, you don't need the toys for the app or the app for the toys, but we design them to go together. So you can use them individually.

Of course, they're both unbelievable, but we design them to use together. The experience together is what you really. want because the stories, the erotic audio power your vibe. So we'll explain that a little bit more. So the best example I can give is Peloton. So you have your Peloton bike and you have your Peloton app that's also on your screen when you're riding the bike. I can ride my Peloton bike without watching a class. I can do whatever the fuck I want. You know, I can hop on it right now and ride it. I can turn the resistance up. I can do whatever I want. I can put in my AirPods and just ride right now. So there are two separate products essentially. Like there is the app and there is the

device. You buy the device, then you pay for the app, but they are designed to go together. So, of course, you guys, we would never sold you vibrators that you would get and be like, surprise, you can't use it. Like, you can use it. There's different intensities. There's different patterns. You can use it in manual mode all you want, obviously. If you guys have gotten yours, you know that. And then you can get into that app and you can listen to the erotic stories. You can watch the videos, of course, but they are designed to go together. It is a paid app. The subscription is separate. So it's premium content. It took a year to be. build. We put tons of money and blood, sweat and tears in this. So it's lower price than others of

its kind, as are the toys. We want to keep the cost down as much as we could, but the app is designed to be a premium experience. There's so much in there and is only going to get better. We know that you guys want to have long distance with the remote control. Like if you're in a long distance relationship, your partner can control your vibe from across the country. We're working on it. We see you when we hear you. But for people that have asking, yes, you buy the vibrator and then you purchase the app separately. But again, you don't have to. Yeah. We prefer it. That's the premiere experience. But of course, if you're like, I don't know, I just fucking like to use my fingers, go off, get in there and, you know, listen to these stories. Yes. And we have designed so many

stories for you guys. So first of all, download the app. There's a three-day free trial when you sign up for a year. So you can get in there. Check out the entire app, all the content. There's so many fun videos. But most importantly, there's erotic audio stories. So they basically talk dirty to you while you are masturbating and Ashley can explain a little bit how this all connects together, but I'll just tell you some of my favorite fantasies in here. Your massage gets sexual. So essentially the masseuse is talking to you and it gets sexier throughout and you can like be the main character of this and talk back if you want to. I love talking while I masturbate. It's so fun. We have your training session gets steamy. So maybe you've ever had like a trainer you thought was really sexy. He's going to like

walk you through the experience and get really naughty. We have girl on girl, which I love as well. Like a girl's trip, gets steamy. So really so many incredible fantasies we've put in here and every week we're going to keep adding. Yep. So you choose one. The interface is very easy. There's categories. We've broken them down into our favorites. You're going to see what's hot and new. And then you just choose one. You click on the congressman, for example. And immediately when you click on it, you'll get a prompt that says, do you want to connect your vibe? If you don't have one, you can dismiss that very easily. But if you have one, you will turn your vibe on. It recognizes it right away. It'll say Ashley vibe or Raina vibe or Gigi vibe. And so quick, it will connect, right? Then you

hit play on the story and the vibrator is pulsing along with the story. So the story starts out kind of slow. The vibrator starts out kind of slow. The story picks up. The vibrator picks up. If the story gets hot, your vibrator's heating up. You know, you're on a horse. It's going to feel like you're riding a horse. Like we've designed these. They're automatic. So, you know, we just want to really break it down and make it as simple as possible that we have curated this experience. And if you feel like that's not for you, whether it's not intense enough or it's too intense, you can use the remote control. You'll see two buttons when you're playing the story, switch over to the remote control, easy switch, then you're in the remote control. Or if you're like, I don't want any of this,

I just want to do it manually and listen to the stories and do my own thing. You can do that too. But the premier way to use the app is obviously to listen to one of these erotic audio experiences with the curated vibrations. For an example, I just want to read this DM that we got, all caps. Holy fucking shit. Just tried my rena with the flight delay flame. that's one of the stories, the flight delay. My world will never be the same. I tried audio porn before and couldn't get into it. But this with the auto control, oh my God,

you girls have totally outdone yourselves. Keep up the great work. Ha ha, seriously, though. I mean, people are going crazy. Like, they're not going to work. Like, someone's like, I had eight orgasms today. I can't, I listen to the gardener. She's like, I just live here now.

Yeah, like, it's so, so special. And that's what we designed it to do. Yes. And a perfect example of like how these are great separately but designed to be together is like the toys are incredible. are my favorite toys. I have dozens of sex toys at home. They are my favorite toys I've ever had. And the app is incredible as well because when you connect to the toy, which is already great, it will unlock more patterns and intensities for you within the controller. So no, you absolutely

don't need the controller to use this, but you can go up and down in intensity with just your thumb while you masturbate. I can't stress this stuff. I'm the laziest masturbator on earth. And it just makes my vibrator even better and I have to do even less work. Yeah, it's perfect. And you know, we designed this with the focus being this content, which is kind of the premier experience. And then we added into that, this video component, and then we added into that the remote control. That's just like an extra. So our goal was never like, let's create a Bluetooth remote control and charge people for it. It was like, let's give people an insane, custom, exclusive, high quality, premium, erotic, orgasmic, rocket ship experience. So that's what you're getting. That's what you're paying for.

We hope that you guys will use them together. But a lot of you have been asked. So we just wanted to really break it down and really break down how you use it. And we're going to continue to teach you guys about this. We know Rayna and I are really close to it. We built this company. So when people have questions, they're confused how to do stuff. We want to break it down for you guys. Another thing to someone messaged about the favorites. She was like, you guys should really do favorites. I was like, bitch, we do. So when you click on the story to listen to it, you can just heart it. And that will go into your favorites. And your favorites can be found in settings. So your little gear at the top, like any other app, you're going to go to settings.

you're going to see favorites, and then that is where you can just keep track of your whole spank bank and go back to your favorites. Yes. And then I just want to like wrap up by saying, we hear you guys, we've gotten your messages about the Raina. They are currently out of stock. We have more on the way. But we also have the Ashley One and the Gigi Panny Vibe, both unbelievable vibrators that both

pair great with the app. And we have more coming. Yeah. More coming. When you go to the website, you can click to be notified when we get those more in. And so now we know. Now we know which ones are hot. which ones are hot and we don't ever want to run out of what you guys want again.

The lube and the blow gels are going quick, but we have more of those coming as well. You can still get them as of right now. We're going to taste test some flavors. Yes, today we have like 50 new flavors to taste test. So there will be more of that. We have some holiday, some seasonal. I'm going to make actually suck them off my fingers. Oh, my God.

We have some seasonal flavors coming. Well, again, if you guys feel like you have burning questions that we haven't explained, let us know. We want to make sure you guys really have all the information here. Okay. Okay, guys, we are so excited to have a returning guest with us today. She is a certified sex educator, dating coach, and a relationship expert with over 70 million YouTube views and 15 years of experience. She is the bestselling author of The Game of Desire, a sex and relationship expert on Peacock's new dating show, X-rated, and a workshop facilitator on Netflix Too Hot to Handle.

She is the host of the podcast lovers and friends. She is a guest that makes me feel super lazy. She only comes on the show when she's pregnant. That's why it's been two years. We've been waiting for. Welcome back to the show, Shambooty. Thank you. Okay, don't even tell me that I make you feel lazy

because what you just told me makes me feel like, what do I do? Anything? You're doing all the things. I'm so proud in awe of you. I love watching it from afar because you guys refuse to get close to me. But nonetheless, you're my joy.

And thank you for having me again. So, Shan, we, you know, we were thinking of moving to L.A. She had is convinced us wholeheartedly. You pulled up, you pulled up in the Zoom. Why do I say that? You pulled up. You rolled up in the zone. I was like, oh, she has a green screen on. And you're like, no, this is real life. So we're going to be in L.A. We're going to be real life friends. You're not going to be able to get rid of us. But yeah, I've just said, like, you're always getting pregnant. You're always, you're always busy getting pregnant. We haven't been able to nail down any quality time with you. So now you have two new babysitters. And I guess quality time for you guys must include like eating sushi. and drinking whiskey because I can't do those things. I'm not invited and going to tanning beds. Yes. Like, Rain and I always like, we get our French tips

and then we go to the tanning bed and then we go out for sushi and whiskey. And we're always like, I wish Shan was here, but she can't. But she's pregnant. Yeah, we ride roller coasters and we do all the stuff that you're not supposed to do. That was quick. You're out of so many things you can't do when you're pregnant. How are you feeling? This is baby number two.

I'm feeling tired. I'm going to be honest with you. Yeah. And my pet peeve is when I say that. And then like some 22 year old is like, yeah, me too. I'm like, no, I'm not like I was up late last night having sex. And then I irresponsibly didn't go to bed in time enough to get enough rest for work. I'm like literally my soul, my dreams, my hopes are tired.

But I also just got over COVID too. So I think it's like the pregnancy plus raising a toddler plus COVID. Everything is just tired. But we get through it. We hear. That's a lot. Yeah. You really do.

yawning. I'm going to be yawning. I'm going to be yawning. I'm off my blood pressure bed today. Shans, like, my life isn't stressful enough. I think I'm going to get COVID also. I know. My gosh. You speak on so many different topics about sex and dating. It was hard to like narrow it down. We're into a lot of sex stuff today. I love a lot of sex stuff. And we really like, but last time, you know, if you guys are listening, like listen to Shan's episode previously, we just, we still reference it of like this being in the driver's seat of your dating life. Like why should you be in the backseat, be in the passenger. side. I'll just grab a lot of more places you can sit in a car. But why should you be in the trunk? Maybe you have a weird kink. But it just, it's like really, I don't, I mean, I don't want to be too dramatic, but I feel like it changed my life. Like, it changed the way I thought of things. Like, figure out what you want and how to get it. It's like sitting back and waiting for it to happen to you because that's not how we act in any other area of our life besides our dating life. Yes. And you also open your book with, and I know this is years ago, so I won't hammer it, but about like what to talk about on a date and what to wear and where to go on the date. And I think. that we've talked to us in the show before, but like we put so much energy and effort into like getting a job. Like why don't we put so much energy into who we're dating and being the

driver's seat, as Ashley said. Yeah. 100%. I mean, I got, I had the nickname amongst my friends as being Shanbot because I approach everything with like a system and a strategy. And we were talking about that in terms of friends about it bits and fuck buddies. Like I again like had like a system and a strategy. So I found that in this space is kind of the thing that's missing. Like if I want to know how to make rice, I can go online and get the step by step by step. guide I know what rice to buy. I know what kind of water I should best use, what kind of pot. Like I can get all of the tools. So I clearly understand like the process to getting the end product I want. But then when it comes to dating and sex, it's very vague advice. And so that's a gap

that I wanted to fill in the market because I'm the kind of person who likes strategy. And I hope that there's a lot of other nerds out there who enjoy the same thing. And if so, that's who my book is for. Yeah, you're such a nerd fan. Well, I feel like maybe, you know, we want to get into these topics today, but I did kind of want to hone in on you and Jared's relationship. I think maybe the last time you just said, like, I married my fuck buddy. It was like the quote you've used before and now you have your second child on the way. But we recently did this episode about situationships and talking about how you can change your mind. You can go into something thinking it's casual and be like, I like you and I want to be more serious.

And so we just wanted to discuss the relationship a little bit more. I've met him in person since last time we recorded with you. you, he is just everything. He's like so, he's such a good energy. He's so strikingly beautiful. Ashley came back and she was like, he's so hot. Like if there's one couple, I could join. But yeah, like, can we just kind of talk about it?

You don't have to give us the whole, you know, long story of the relationship, but how it changed from fuck buddy to second child on the way. Yes, I think it's really important that you don't look at being fuck buddies as a strategy to getting to where we are today. Right. But instead, as these like isolated insular relationship. relationships. Like I don't look at Jared and I's relationship like building blocks per se. It was just like almost blocks that we jumped from one to the next to the next when it felt right. So I never got into it thinking this is a pathway too deep for intimacy because my favorite quote is the key to happiness is managing expectations. And so when we got into the relationship, I genuinely was about to be deported from the country because I'm from Canada and my work visa was running up. I just come out of a toxic relationship. But I was in school for sexology. And when you're in a toxic relationship, oftentimes sex is one of the

first things to go. I mean, your partner, if you're toxic, probably has sex to other people, which was the case for me, but we weren't having sex. So I was learning all these amazing things. And then when I got out of that relationship, I was okay, I'm not in a place mentally. I'm definitely not in a place in terms of stability to start anything meaningful with someone. But I definitely want to have great sex. I think my body is in a place where it's deserving and needing of pleasure. So I was literally auditioning dudes. Like I would just put on a Beyonce playlist, wear a sports bra and track pants and invite a dude over and make out with him. And if I felt like there was an energy, then we would move forward. But the only person that I really felt

that like really great, like, oh, we would be great sexual partners was Jared. And so I entered into that relationship knowing I just wanted it to be sex. But I also knew really other important things about myself. I know that I have a big ego. So that can get in the way of those kinds of relationships because you can feel like, well, if we're having great sex and I'm an amazing person, shouldn't you want more? So I put all these protections in place to ensure that my ego wouldn't get in the way. I also put protections in place knowing my neurochemicals that would be released like oxytocin to ensure like I wouldn't get unnecessarily bonded to him. And then I put, you know, rules in place in terms of like what we would and wouldn't do to match the relationship and the goal of that relationship. And I think in doing that, that allowed me to enjoy him as a fuck buddy. And through that enjoyment, we got to a place where we're like, wait a second,

we're really enjoying ourselves here on this block. Are there things that we could do on that block, which for us was friends with benefits because we didn't start up as friends? And then what would that look like? And then we reframed and restructure our relationship to meet those goals. So I was like really specific and strategic about it. And I always caution people because I'm like, it's not a story of like fuck buddies can work out in terms of working out to marriage. Instead,

a fuck buddy can work out as that relationship if you really hyper focus on setting parameters and a specific goal within that. And then being honest with yourself, because if you can't do that anymore, it's either time to jump off that block or have a discussion with that person and be like, I want to move things forward. Where are you at? Okay. Can we talk about what the parameters are before we move on to like the next block? Like when you were like, we're just going to be fuck buddies and I don't want to release all these feelings that are going to make me feel closer to him. Like what boundaries did you put in place for you guys? First and foremost, no sleepovers because the highest doses of oxytocin are released in after

sex cuddles. Yes. Yeah. I love that. So no sleepovers whatsoever. And no dates, no like going out. We would just like get together, vibe for a little bit. And then our sexual energy was so high anyways.

We would have sex, sometimes have sex twice. And then he would leave afterwards. For my ego, the best thing that I did is I never initiated contact with him ever, ever, ever. But I did like, you know, positive reinforcement. If he messaged me, I would message back right away. But I didn't want to get into that like slot machine game where I would send a text and then not hear from him from hours and then get excited towards, you know, getting his call or feel like, it did something go wrong?

Did I mess up? Was I not good in bed last night? So I just knew myself. And I'm like, I work better when I can be relaxed. And so when he reaches out, I'll respond. But other than that, I don't want to put myself on the line in that position. That works out great for me. I also gave him his own ringtone.

So I wouldn't get into that cycle of every time my phone went off. I was like looking to see if that was my fuck buddy. I love that. I would always just know, okay, cool. Like, you know, he's messaging me now. This is my best tip. I had a cuddle buddy while I had a fuck buddy. So sometimes I would genuinely-

You do, girl. Listen, I had a dude who I was going to museums with that I never made out with or did anything with. Like, I really had because I was aware of like what I needed out of intimacy, but I didn't want to put all my eggs in one basket. But I would genuinely finish having sex with Jared and then I would drive him home and then drive to my cuddle buddy's house. So having these compartments. Cuddle and museum buddy. I like people say that. No.

Wait, what did you say? I said that poor guy. Oh, no. I mean, if he was. My time is valuable. Yeah. I mean, that guy got to go to the museum with Shad. I would love to go to a museum.

I would just like an amusement guy. I have one more question. Did you have a parameter of whose house you had sex at? Did you only do it at your house? You could kick somebody out? Yes. Yes. 99% of the time,

I think we only started going to his house much later in the relationship. You made him upgrade it, get new betting and all that. I'm kidding. Right. I'm just assuming your house was nicer. It wasn't up to par. I mean, no, I really did a great job.

And like, yeah. And I also made the goal of our relationship. So the way that I was able to like, you know, get that part of myself off. I made the goal great sex and that was it. So I always look for ways to like increase intimacy, like old version of me and your guys below job gel, I would have been like, I need that tonight because I got to keep,

you know, getting better at this. So yeah, I feel like again, creating like a structure that was really suited to the goal of that relationship was awesome. And then being honest with that person and with myself. I think that this is so brilliant because I sometimes get a little too close with people and then I'm like, what am I doing?

I don't even want this. because I have long conversations with them or I'll stick around and like cuddle or they'll sleep over and I'll wake up like holding on to the person. And it breeds an intimacy that like maybe the relationship isn't even ready for. So I think it's just, I think it's great advice. I mean, it's, it's such incredible advice. The thing that people do wrong is look at relationships too romantically. They, you know, things, they don't want to talk about. You say the word strategic. That's not a sexy word. You know, building blocks. That's not sexy. But relationships are conversations and communication and they take work and they take being really honest with yourself. And so I'm sure, so

many people go into like, yeah, we're fuck buddies. But, you know, like ultimately, if you were really honest with yourself, the goal is that they will fall in love with you and you would want more, you know, so I don't know that we're A, always honest with ourselves and be honest with the other person and having these relationships that are quote unquote unsexy. So the way that you talk about this is like so important for reframing these things because there's just a lot of people that are doing it wrong. You know, maybe ourselves included at points in our life. So I think it's so important. I feel like bare minimum when I think about relationships, whether it be marriage or a fuck buddy, I'm like, what do I do to make sure that I like myself within this?

Like, what do I have to do to make sure that I'm the coolest, most relaxed, sexiest, happiest version of me? One, because then the other person benefits from that. And then two, because I actually enjoy the relationship, which I should genuinely do. So when you have that top of mind, you're like, okay, let me be honest about who I am. And if this is the relationship structure that we both agreed on, what do I need to do and not do to ensure that I don't turn into the crazy version of myself who gets obsessive, who's depressed, and who starts becoming resentful. I mean, if that's the basis of it, then I think you don't have to use the word strategy, but I don't know. What's the word the kids like these days?

Like, mindful joyness, something, you know, I feel less body. Yeah. So you can present, you know, you can joyfully be present within that dynamic. So were you, it was fuck buddies and you were like friends, you were hanging out in daylight hours and then it was open relationship and then it was pregnant, married. I don't know. Like how is that? Technically that. It was like, yeah, we started out as fuck buddies. We weren't friends. I remember the day that he invited me to come watch football because he was having a party at his house. And I was like thrown off. And I call my friend. I was like, yo, my fuck buddy wants me to like go over for a party. And I was like, can you come? I'm like freaked out by it. And she was like, yeah. And then I went. And it was really casual and cool. And I was. And it was really casual and cool. He didn't make it weird or, you know, didn't try to push in any direction. I was like, oh, this is comfortable. And I actually enjoy who you hang around. And then it was like, oh, okay, cool.

Maybe we can do a couple of extra things together. And then little stuff, like he lived walking distance from me, which is such a huge. I don't think if we didn't live walking distance the beginning, we never would have been here to begin with. Because I just needed convenience. But he, I went away for a week. I was like, hey, you live close. You obviously come by a bit. Can you water my plants?

I came back. My plants weren't dead. So I was like, oh, like you're actually somebody I can rely on. So it was like through these little moments of, oh, there's other things that we can share together. And it wasn't as if, and I always feel this with titles. Like titles aren't things that you should aspirationly move towards. It's almost like a month after you've been existing in that space. You're like, we should probably call it this thing now.

Like the title is the way to explain what you already existingly share with someone to other people versus this thing that you slap on something in order to try to move towards that goal. And I found that we did that a lot. So really and truly, we moved in together. And then we were like, we should stop being like friends with benefits. There's something else obviously going on here. We should call it something else. But we also enjoyed the freedom that we got through that dynamics. That's where the title open relationship came.

And again, it was only like, oh, like, we should explain to our parents that we were more than just like roommates. Yeah. Do you remember when you started, I haven't covered this a little bit. I mean, it was years ago. so it doesn't matter. It was a little repetitive. But like when you started to come around to the idea of an open relationship, did you always grow up with this like really open idea of sex and monogamy and non monogamy? Or was it, did he introduce this concept to you? Like how did you start to think about this? The real truth is that I think it was something that was always a part of me. I remember like in my toxic previous relationship, I would often talk about like honesty. And you know, if you want to have experiences or I want to have experiences, we should be able to be honest, but just never worked practically. One, he was a cheater, so he would always conceal and I'd find out. And two, if ever I showed any type of openness to somebody else, he would get really mad in territorial. So I was okay, I had this like thought process that there could be this kind of dynamic. I didn't know what to call it back then.

But in essence, with Jared, we moved in together. And then I had someone from my past that I'm sure you got, do you guys have the kind of person where you had a short period of time with them that was just so magical? And then things didn't work out. And you always had that what if. Yeah. Yeah, we're going to talk about it today. I love it. So I had that person for me and then kind of coincidentally, I've always had this what if. And even through my toxic relationship, I'd always think about this person as if they, I probably like idolized and amplified them because what I was going through was so rough. That guy came around as soon as me and Jared moved back in and I was like, I got to be honest with you. I have to see where this goes because if I don't, I'm going to have this huge what if the rest of my life. So I need some space to date this person. Like how do you feel? And again, This is like 2016, 2015-ish. That word wasn't as popularized as it was today. So we found that title. I'm like, okay, I think this fits what we have

because these are the things that we want to give each other if that person requests that space or request that opportunity to explore that what if. Got it. Do you have that person in your life? Do you have like a... Yeah, I'm like, why am I blank? I feel like I've said those exact words before.

Like, this is the person I always like wondered about. You know who I think that your person is? is when you first moved to New York and you weren't really ready to date and you met that guy that you thought was really great and you just weren't in a place. Yeah, I have a guy that like, I mean, he's going, I don't know. It just is like I met this like pretty perfect guy. We went in a couple really fun dates and I just wasn't over my ex and it was just not the right time. And like my friends, like my guy friends met him and we're like, what the fuck are you thinking?

And this guy's like amazing. So yeah, I mean, there's a couple. Where is he now? He's, I think he might be married. I don't know. He's like not really heavy on social media. And I had, um, so many years ago. go where I dated this guy briefly, broke up with him for another guy, but always wondered.

And then we reconnected. And I went to visit him Chicago. And it just didn't work out. So I think you always have to like scratch the itch if you can. Absolutely. If it's okay with everybody, you know, it's not like cheating on their spouse or something. And then to your point, like years later, when you actually follow that path, then you're like, oh, this is why I didn't work out. And there was actually pieces of this in the dynamic that, you know, through intimate idealization, which your brain naturally does because it wants you to bond. I, like, overlooked or forgot about those. But years later, like with that guy, we started, you know, dating again and we reconnected.

And I was like, oh, we didn't, like get torn apart by some, like, dark cosmic force that are stopped us from loving. We just, like, weren't compatible. But we probably didn't know how to say that at the time. And it kind of fell apart awkwardly. But years later, I was like, oh, yeah, this is why this never would have worked. And I'm so grateful that I got. Yeah. Yes. It's so true. I think we like spent all this time away from a person. Then we, like, we idealized what this was. And it's funny, this person that I was talking about, I connected with him. I

thought he was like the best thing in the fucking world. And it didn't, we did not sleep together a hookup at the time. He did some stuff I didn't love. And then a year and a half later, we were connected and we went on a date. And Ashley the next morning was like, it was so fun. It was so great. And I like couldn't. I was like, it was fine. And it was good. And she was like, you don't sound like you're so excited. And in my mind, I was like, because he did the same shit last night that he did a year and a half ago and I'm realizing this is a pattern and I don't like it. What was it?

I thought that he came on like really like full court press about how incredible I am and amazing and I'm this incredible person. He thinks we have this unbelievable connection and then disappears. Oh, a love bomber. And it is kind of love bombing. Yeah.

So like this thing I wanted to talk about today is just having sex on a first date and this kind of ties into it because him and I did sleep together when we finally went on our first date, which was recently in L.A. And yeah, the night we went out, it was like very love-bbing. It felt genuine. It felt very much. I don't think he was saying things to try to get me to sleep with him. It didn't feel like that at all. And I think I'm a little sharper than that. But yeah, we were like in my hotel and he was like, you're the person.

You're the person. Like I haven't enjoyed anybody this much, whatever. I've probably talked on the podcast. So I'm not going to get into it too deeply. But we slept together. And I woke up the next morning, he was like cuddled up to me like so tightly. He was holding my hand like in the cuddle. And it, it felt very overly familiar. And then I didn't hear from him for a day and a half. And I really didn't like it. It felt really fucking bad. And I think a lot about what somebody owes you. And, you know, did you reach out? Because they didn't reach out. He didn't reach out to me. He didn't, I didn't reach out either. So I think, you know, did he mirror my behavior? But if you sleep with somebody, then I'll contact you for a day and a half. If you don't like you, you're allowed to not like it.

I didn't like it. I fucking hated it. It really turned me off. It made me feel bad. And that was kind of that. Did you communicate that? I did. I went out with him one more time. He had sort of made up an excuse for why I hadn't heard it from him. I thought, sure, whatever, we'll go out one more time. We went to dinner and we did not hook up that night. And I just, we just sort of dead at it. I said, we just sort of dead at it. I said, it felt really bad. And I didn't really love hearing all this stuff. And it's sleeping with you and then hearing from you. And I think he digested it. And we didn't hook up that night. And that was sort of that. Let's get to know. I mean, at least like you said, the boundary. I think that's always a huge thing because sometimes we don't give the person the benefit of that dialogue, which I always go to this place of like, I can either argue with you in my head and be stressed or I can tell you how I feel and then now you can share in the stress. And then what you do with that will be like very illuminating to me. I remember when I started with Jared one day, you know, when we were fuck buddies, he messaged me in the morning. Was like, I'm off work today. Do you want to hang out? And I was like, yeah, for sure. You know, I responded back really quick because Pavlov response. I want to make sure that he, you know, gets response. Like, this is positive. And then he didn't respond back for hours. And then he responded. I took a nap. I woke up. So, when are you free? And then I responded. Then he was like, hours later. And I was like, listen, buddy, I don't ever want to fucking do this. Like, if you're not in a place where you can finish a conversation with me, do not start one. I am not interested in these day long chats. So, and if you can't hang out, trust me,

I'm not pressed. And I'll move on in my day. But don't ever do that again. And he was like taken it back by it because like, this is so early. Why are you like being so aggressive? but sure enough, he never did it again. So the fact that you set the boundary and you were really clear and then that guy was put off by that is probably a good indicator. But I'm really happy you did because a lot of people would just be like, well, I'm going to mentally make up a story in my head for what this person was thinking versus realizing that some people just don't think or think the same as us.

I mean, what you just said is like what I have been dealing with. And I love that you even brought that up. We talked about this for months with me. I feel like I'm like, I don't, I got shit to do, you know, like you just. Like you just said, don't start it. If you're going to disappear for the next couple hours, like, I'm trying to plan my life. You know, like if it's just a lack of interest, but clearly that wasn't what the case was with Jared being- Bad habits.

Yeah. So a lot of people have those bad texting habits where they're like, oh, this is normal way to communicate. Maybe with other people. Like, do you want me to be nutty in this relationship? Or do you want me to be bitter when we hang out because I wasted my entire day waiting on you? No, you want me to be fun and relaxed. And to get that version of me, here's what I require. from you and I don't think I'm asking a lot.

Absolutely. And I think that there is, we say this all the time. There's tons of ways to say those things without being like, you don't get to treat me like this. There's just a normal calm way being like, hey, I don't make plans of friends like this. I don't make plans of family like this. I expect a response. I'm a busy person just like you. So just respect my time. And yeah, if you make me wait all day long, you make a plan with me, I am going to show up. I am going to be bitter. And I don't like that. Or you're not going to show up. You're going to like, now I'm too available. So now I'm going to not. And then you're going to start doing all the stuff without telling.

them, like you said, you're going to spiral in your own head. But when you said that to him, did you say that in person when you met up? Or did you text that? Or did you call him on the phone? I think I just text it back. And that's how we were communicating. I think he actually didn't respond to me for a couple days. Oh. I can't really remember. But like I think, yeah, there was a couple of times in our relationship. And again, going back to that rule that I had of like, I just didn't reach out first. Where I just gave the space that he needed to like process things. And then I saw where it landed from it. But I always felt good knowing that like at least it ended because I advocated for myself.

Like, that's always the best end to any relationship. Like, oh, like, I was clear about what I needed and the other person wasn't able to meet those needs. So, like, where could we have gone anyways? Right. What's the alternative is that you say nothing and you're mad or you're bitter or you're in a scenario that you don't want to be in?

If somebody doesn't talk to me ever again because I communicate something I wanted, that's okay. Like, I'm not so bitter about it. It's just like, that's not a boundary you wanted to respect, no hard feelings, but you can't date me. And actually brought up a great point because there is a very big difference

between being like, I need to be clear with you. Are you listening, sweetie? And being like, hi, like I totally get that you've got a busy day. I respect that. But just know if you are flustered and you're busy and you feel like you have to pause the world to send me a text, don't pause your world. Do your thing. And when you're actually sitting down, you've got space and time to finish a dialogue. That's when I want to hear from you. Other than that, I am totally fine, not hearing from you for one day, three days, five days, whatever it takes. Yeah, I really love that. And we did this whole episode on texting styles. Not everybody's the same.

It doesn't mean you have to rapid fire for hours back with somebody. But like when you said that, I like felt that in my heart of like hitting somebody up. You respond right away. Then there's hours. It's like what? And like Raina said like I don't do this with my friends. I don't do this with my family. It feels manipulative even when it's not.

You know, like he wasn't trying to manipulate you and be like, let me leave her wanting more and go disappear for three hours. It was just like whatever it was. Okay, we can drop this. You know, I could talk about this forever. No, I can talk about it forever too. it doesn't feel good. I like that you call like the Pavlov's response. I know what you're talking about. I just want it the right thing. I do that when I like a guy. I do like to respond right away. I want it to feel intentional. I want them to feel like they have my attention. And I'd like the

behavior mirrored as well. And it's okay if it's throughout the day and you're busy and you're working. Plenty of my friends don't hear from me all day long either. And I wake up to, you know, I get 85 group texts and I don't respond to any of them. But I want somebody to act like I'm a priority. And if I can't be like that's fine. But I don't want to spend. my day feeling like shit because you have made me not a priority. Yeah, but then you respond and then they leave you hanging. You're like, they got me. Like, what are why they doing this? And I feel stupid. You know what's actually a really fascinating aha though? And I love this about the work that I'm doing, like the my podcast in particular, because I have all these clips that go out. But there are so many people

who have messaged me and been like, I didn't know that I was gaslighting people, but I do intentionally do this. So sometimes we think that people are innocently doing these behaviors like love bombing without realizing it. No, some people are very aware that they are doing this to get a certain response or outcome out of someone else. And so that's been an aha for me too, because I think as good intentioned people in dating where it's like, I don't want to make someone have a shitty experience by getting to know me, we wouldn't think to like utilize these tactics. Because even though I use strategy, again, my intent for using strategy is to put myself in a position to be more enjoyable for me and thus enjoy myself. I mean, give that person more enjoyment. It's never to like,

oh, yeah, like I want to get this thing out of this person and give the least so I can get the most. But there are people who that's their strategy. And so I think being open to that reality is also really helpful because, yeah, I know people who are like, yeah, I gaslight on purpose. I didn't know it was called that, but like I definitely do that to get out of scenarios where I'm in the wrong and I don't want to apologize. Do you find that that is more of like a male behavior or a female behavior? you're both? Like who's telling you, I acknowledge I do this on purpose? Well, I have like one particular person in my life, you know, who works for us is like a production, like in a production stance. And they're younger and very toxic. And so I always hear from that particular person. It's a guy

who's just like, yeah, like I do this or I do that or I lie or like, and, you know, and so I'm like, oh, this is really fascinating because in my mind, you're not like really intentionally trying to like harm people, but there are some people who do. Like, I literally ask this dude. I'm like, why pop up around Christmas? Like, why do that to somebody? He's like, oh, I like gifts. Like these very simple responses.

Oh, okay. That is fucking toxic. Yeah. He works for Shane. He's going to listen to this. He's like, God damn. He knows. He's like my prime example of like, wow. It's so healing to my 20 year old self too sometimes because I dated people like that. And then I used to make up all these elaborate stories for, why they behaved in certain ways. And then I'm like, oh, it's really as simple as like you just

wanted a gift. That's helpful in healing to know. Anyways, we're getting off topic. All that to say, I just wanted to know that some, like that guy that you are talking about, Raina, like really might intentionally be used this as a strategy that's been effective for him in the past to get, you know, maximum investment out of women with input or minimum input only when he's in person with them. So it's good for you to have called that out. And I'm happy that you're like making a decision. Now he can come back around and change your mind, but kind of to your point about being able to change your mind, that's his responsibility now. But also, I mean, like, let's just take an example of waiting hours to text somebody back. Like, that can be purposeful too.

And that could be, I don't want him or her to get attached. I'm going to do this on purpose. You calling that out, if Jared had been doing that to just make sure he was keeping you at arm's length, then your call out and setting that boundary probably would have had him being like, all right, no more of this. I can't play her like this and she sees what I'm doing. Like a lot of it's just like, hey, I see you. I see that you start a conversation and then didn't respond to me for three hours and I don't really like it. So you almost give a person an opportunity to check themselves.

Am I doing this on purpose? Or was this just me being lazy or not paying attention? Because I think that so many people, men and women, do that on purpose. Like they saw your text. They could have responded. They made you wait because they don't want you to, they don't want to give you any hope, brought the wrong idea. Yeah. Yeah. I think that guy didn't respond to me the next day on purpose. Right. Right. I think he did that on purpose completely. I don't think he's a bad guy. I think I know exactly what happened. I think you woke up in the morning and was like, holy shit too much. I said so much stuff to her last night. I said stuff to her that makes this girl think that I am in love with her, want to be with her. We're going to start dating immediately. And I need to reel this shit back in. And I think that yes, I didn't text him either. But like, I was talking to some of our other guy friends that day. And I was like, am I crazy to think I should get like a this was thunding. This was thunding. I enjoyed seeing you text. And they're like, yeah, we all know that you want the text.

Like every person alive knows that like you were inside of a woman last night. You should say last night was a nice time. Thanks for coming. You know, thanks for coming. And it felt very like, I was like, you know, if I don't hear from by five, no big deal, seven, by eight o'clock I was like, oh, I'm not going to hear from this person. The workday's over. He knows that he was with me. It feels on fucking purpose. And no one is too busy for 24 hours to say I had a good time last saying, I think he did it on purpose and I think he served me up a decent enough excuse the next day that I wouldn't be really angry about it. And again, it just is what it is. It felt on purpose. And I read the room and I just felt like, I'll give this one more shot for one night and it didn't work out. So it's fine.

I agree with you. I think sometimes, a lot of times people are doing this to send a message. Yeah. Or to get a certain desired outcome of you. Yeah. Because the unfortunate truth is, yeah, a lot of people prioritize getting what they want versus getting the best out of someone in relationships. I mean, I don't ride with that because I never want to get from somebody at the cost of their self-esteem or their sanity. But when you watch those Netflix documentaries, like, there's some evil motherfuckers out there. And evil's the wrong term. But, you know, there are people who go about getting the things that we all want, love, adoration, attention, money in ways that are deliberately harmful to other individuals. And they feel no remorse about it.

And so I think as a dater, you have to be aware that those people exist. Yes, there's people with reasonable excuses. There are people who kind of serendipitously come across these manipulative tactics and don't really know what they're doing or why. But there are people who are intentional and you need to be able to address that and name it. This wasn't even on our topic list at all. But here we are. I'm so glad we talked about all this stuff. Okay, so we wanted to talk to you about sex today.

I mean, we loved something that you, there was a video that you had posted about sexual slumps. and I think the question, I mean, this might have been with Rachel Lindsay. I don't remember. Yeah, but just like, can you still,

can you still have intimacy when you aren't having sexual intimacy? You guys said Rachel on the podcast, right? Yes, we loved her. We loved her. Yes, I listened to that podcast. It's amazing. Rachel's incredible.

And again, so how my podcast works, you know, I said to Ashley, I always use the example of how we came up with the topic. Ashley was like, yeah, so like I'm dating dudes and we're going to find time.

We get to this place where it feels like I should fuck but I don't want to. I'm like, that's what we're talking about. And so with Rachel, I was like, what's important to you right now? And she's like, I'm like really satisfied in my career. I'm really satisfied with my relationship. And I really don't care about having sex or being good at sex right now. And I was like, that's fascinating. And we call that episode like boss in the streets and currently meh in the sheets. And that's okay to be in that place, right? And I'm in that place right now. I'm currently really meh in the sheets.

And there's a big difference. So there's HSDD, which is a diagnosable disorder, which is hypoactive sexual desire disorder, which is characterized by frustrating low sex drive. And that is when you genuinely want to have sex and you want to be intimate, but you just don't have the go or the drive to do it. And that could be something that is neurochemical

and that could be something you could talk about with your doctor. But what about if you have low sex drive that's not frustrating? Just a fact of life for you. and like you really actually don't care to change it. Like we all go through those periods of time we're working out where we're like, I'm not in the mood to work out. I'm not mad at myself.

Because that can exist too in healthy relationships. So not every sexual slump is like, pause the, you know, the role. It's the end of the line. We got to do something.

We've got to troubleshoot. Sometimes it's like, I'm embracing this season, just like I would embrace a season of high sex drive where we're having incredible sex every night. I'm like embracing the fact that I don't want to have sex.

And I'm working with my partner in ways to acknowledge their reality, but I'm not interested in changing mind right now. For sure. And I'm glad that you differentiated between like, you know, I've certainly been in long-term relationships where we were crazy sexual in the beginning. And towards the end, we weren't. It's because there was a problem with the relationship. But this sounds like it's different. It's more of a you thing. And I've said to Ashley, for example, like we've launched this new company now. And I can't imagine. No, to confetti. Every day I walk home in our studio. And like I feel like Ashley and I worked so hard

Our team has worked so hard. I'm so proud of it. But like, if I had to go home and like give to another person sexually, I couldn't do it. I walk home every day and think like, I killed it today professionally. And if I had to like suck a dick right now, it would be the end of the world. I don't have it in me. I don't want to do it. Exactly. So, so what is it with this? I mean, is it is the answer just like it comes and goes, you know? And then if you feel like your partner is very dissatisfied, let's time to maybe it's time to troubleshoot. Or I mean, what did you guys kind of land on with the discussion? Yeah, I think first is acknowledging and naming it in yourself and being like, this is a season that I'm in. And secondly, and most importantly, it's immediately communicating that to your partner. Because the worst thing you can do is leave those things unsaid and then allow that person's insecurities to fill in the blank, which can lead them to lash out or can lead them to feel very bad inwardly. And you don't want that because, again, often when you go through these slums, sometimes it really isn't a reflection of things need to change within your partner. It's just, it might even be external factors. Like, you know, I'm pregnant or I'm really busy right now. I'm going through a period of exhaustion or maybe I'd struggle with anxiety.

I mean, I personally don't. I know people who go through those where it's like right now, this is just not a priority for me. So having those awkward conversations and, you know, in that episode with Rachel, I talked about last pregnancy, you know, Jared went through, you know, low sex drive and the relationship with me and like he talked about it with me. And it was a really uncomfortable conversation. It was very difficult for me not to take personally.

But I'm so glad that we. we had it because essentially for like a couple months leading up to it, you know, I noticed he wasn't initiating. And I was like, what's going on and why? And like all these things were coming up. So when we just finally put it on the table as scary as it was, it was so healing for me and affirming to me. It was like a gut check in the moment, but like long term it benefited me. And I was kind of talking about this in terms of specifically men who struggle with erectile dysfunction. They often do this where they pull away from their partner. And it has nothing to do with like desirability, has nothing to do with the health of relationship.

It's a personal thing that they're going through and trying to troubleshoot. But because they're embarrassed about it, they don't say anything. And then the other person, you know, takes on the burden of that and feels like it's something they're doing wrong. Where that could just be cured just by being like vulnerable and honest about where you're at. But again, if it's frustrating to you, that's when you guys should troubleshoot together or again, go to a doctor to seek, you know, medical attention. Right. Was the thing with Jared, and you don't have to talk about it if you don't want to, was it just him kind of going through a slump?

It was kind of like a personal slump of like that, but also like I'm not into pregnancy sex. You know, I'm not into it. I'm not turned on by it. Just like not my thing. And then he brought up a good point. He was like,

you know, because I think when you're pregnant too, like it's you're experiencing so much that people can experience outwardly. So he brought up an example of the time. We were like in the shower. Like things were getting popping. And I was like,

oh, the baby's moving. Like feel it. And then he was like, oh my, that just took me out. but it's a fact of life for me. You know, I can't. It's just my body's doing a thing.

I'm like, oh, you know, I want to bring him in on it. And I was like, okay, I had to like understand that this part of my like existence and it was hard for him to put the together. Interestingly enough, pregnancy too, he's completely gotten over that. And now I have no drive at all. So now I'm not. Now he is a pregnancy fetish and you don't want to. Yeah.

He was like, I kind of feel like this is like a little bit of spite. I'm like, trust me, it's not. I don't have the energy to be spiteful. That's so funny. My spite is tired. So can we talk about if your libidos are mismatched to this point pregnant or not? Like, what do you do? If it's frustrating, you troubleshoot.

So if it's something that you want to fix, if it's not frustrating, you communicate where you're at and what you're willing to do. And you ask your partner if that would suffice for them. And if it is great, you know, make a commitment to do that thing. For me, that was like hand jobs. I was like, I really can just reach, I can reach over and offer you this or I'll buy you a sex toy. but I'm not, like, I love giving head during pregnancy because I'm like, let me stay in one position and rest my forehead again something. That's my idea of a great time, not move. I really don't enjoy sex because like the movement is really difficult for me. So I'm honest about that. I'm like, here's where I can compromise, like, you know, meet your needs and ensure we're still, because I enjoy being intimate with you. I also enjoy orgasming. So I like being on my back receiving pleasure without somebody rubbing up against my stomach. So that means oral. But nonetheless, I mean, like, come up with a strategy that works for you guys, given like, kind of the time. And then also addressing that. I acknowledge that this is not going to be forever.

Like, just give me this season right now. And that's what Rachel was saying too. Like my book is coming out. I'm already birthing something into this world. Like I'm putting my energy. You guys have an entire business that's launching. I'm sure the energy that you used to feel sexually is being redirected in another place, which the world will benefit from when they get your amazing products.

Like that you've been fucking your business for the past few months. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes it's kind of like that of like, you know, setting a time goal. If it is frustrating for you, I would say my best tip when you come to differing sex drives isn't to add more but to take away. So put more restrictions on how much you guys can be intimate and when you can be intimate so you can create scarcity. Because I think what happened and what tended to happen in the pandemic when there was like an overabundance of opportunities and there was no mystery and it was always available to you, you just kind of lost that desire. because it's the risk and reward center of the brain that gets our libido kicking. It's that unknown.

And if I know what you're going to do, how you're going to do it, how you're going to react, it's just not as easy to get excited. So putting up more restrictions of like we can't touch, we can't make out, I don't want to see you these days. I don't want to do this one thing with you. I'm going to do this thing separately. Like creating more space often can actually give the space for that fire to reignite. Yeah, miss each other a little or just have some. Exactly. I mean, I really love that you guys had that conversation. I think that some men might be a little scared to be like, I am not into the pregnancy thing.

And it just, it sounds harsh, you know, and I'm sure you felt it in some kind of way. And obviously it wasn't that like he didn't want this baby or he doesn't find you beautiful. But I, I love that you. Do things,

which I immediately thought. Right. But I love that you were honest about that. You know, I think that maybe some men have felt that and were too scared to vocalize it. Or, I mean, it's such a sign of a healthy relationship.

I'd love that you shared that with us and that you guys talked about that amongst yourselves. Yeah, I think that's an important thing. You guys probably have a can attest to this is like being open to having those honest conversations that so many people crave is not all pleasantries and upsides. It means being open and curious to things that could hurt your ego or things that you actually don't want to hear. But I made it so, you know, made my best attempt to not let my face show that I was hurt or personalizing it because the last thing I want to do is discourage.

his truth because it's the unknown that's actually so much shittier. Your excuse, your reasons in your head. Exactly. Yes. I love that. I mean, it's kind of, I feel like Rayne and I've been fights and not saying you guys were to fight. But, you know, some of the conflict is happening because we're in a relationship of all

different types, you know, business partners, best friends. We're like familial essentially. But like where until you hash it out, you have something totally in your head. And when they tell you, you're like, oh, it was that? I didn't even, I wasn't even thinking that. And I don't know if that's better. or worse, but at least I know now because I had a whole different narrative in my head. And I was troubleshooting in a different direction or I was focused on something totally different.

Or I was missing an opportunity to better myself and better this relationship. So yeah, the known is always better, but it oftentimes is not always like best case scenario. I did this, I had this podcast coming out with Headspace and we were talking about growth in the relationship and they kept trying to reframe it like on the other side of growth, it's always positive. It's always better. know. Sometimes it sucks, but at least that's the reality that I could get to actually like realize and deal with. So on the other side of that scary isn't always like, oh, it's actually just a beautiful butterfly all along. It was never a man with a knife. Sometimes it's a dude with a knife,

but at least now you know, run, bitch. Yeah. I will say that like these are the scariest conversations for me, obviously. And yeah, the other side of it isn't always great. And sometimes I learned something about myself that I'm like, I didn't know I did that. And I hate that. And I hate that. And I hate that you. you view me like that. And I hate that in this relationship, I am this to you. And it doesn't always feel good. But I've said this in the show before and a lot with friendship relationships. I'm never upset that I have the conversation. Even if I learn something about myself that I fucking hate about myself or I see the lens through which another person sees me. And it's usually either Ashley or a romantic partner because those are the people I'm going to be closest and most intimate

with. I'm never upset that I had those conversations. And I learn these things I don't necessarily like about myself. But at least I know it, right? At least I know how I feel. people in the world now and how I am viewed by others. And it helps me to be a better person. Or decide if you want to do anything with information or be like, man, the way that I naturally exist doesn't work with you. Right. And also, just because somebody says somebody who doesn't make it true, just someone views you or certain your way, you're like, I don't really think that's accurate. I don't think this is going to work anymore. Or it is accurate. I remember one of my exes was screaming me, all you do is fucking talk shit. And I was like, talking shit is so fun. Yeah.

That's so funny. He was like, you fucking do this. And I was like, oh, yeah, well, it's the best. So I'm never changing. Yeah. And it's like a skill. Yeah, exactly. Someone insults you and you're like, you're right.

What you don't like it? That's who I am. There's the door. That's so funny. At one time, he was like, all you do is just pepper people questions about them and what they're like and what their life is like. And then you offer nothing about yourself. And I was like, that sounds amazing.

Right. I sound incredible. I would love to come across me and date me. Yeah, you just can talk about yourself all the time. It's my dream. I guess we can just kind of wrap. We can, you know, we should do. Wait, hold on, Shan.

We're going to have a meeting. Okay. Oh, I love that idea. Okay, great. New segment. Before we let you go. New segment. In honor of the new vibes only company,

we've just talked a lot about like self-pleasure and masturbation. So do you have any self-pleasure and masturbation tips? and maybe even for pregnancy. Absolutely. I've actually become really good at masturbation as like just a function of wellness and life. Not necessarily like this thing that I crave doing something that I invite because I'm like I should do.

And so that in mind, I've been trying to get my brain excited about it, which has been a great thing for me because I'm like, I've been mashed me in the exact same way for a very long time. And I get why I've gotten bored of it. So first and foremost, the same way that if you had sex every single time to the same playlist and the same position,

with the exact same partner, same lighting set up, like your brain would get bored. And I always say this about the human brain is that the brain likes new, but it's like a basic new. So I think when some people think about spicing up their sex life or spicing up the routine,

they're like, oh, I've got to go to Cancun and I got to find a worker who would be willing to join me in my... No, you can just go to the other side of the bed. You can change the light. You can get a projector. You can go in front of the mirror. So when it comes to masturbation, do the same thing for yourself,

these small changes. And also broadening, out what masturbation looks like for you. So rather than just being genital focused, it can be genital plus or it can be others. So like a nipple, buying a toy that's specific for your nipples and specific for your clip. If you've never, a lot of people have never done butt play before themselves. I think of it as like, this is a kink that I roll out like a red carpet for that special person. Now like there's a lot of joy you can get from getting a sense of fullness. So like butt plugs or butt beads that you can utilize on your own while you're master.

masturbating, that's an incredible way as well. Thinking about other erogenous zones. So if you really get off from maybe your head being massaged, like you know one of those those head massagers, do that while you're actually using your favorite clitoral stimulator. When they're like shampooing your hair, if she has like, if the shampooers like the nails, I'm like, never stop. They actually would be good for that.

Yeah. Texture. Yeah. But exactly that. Just like thinking about multiple satisfaction when it comes to masturbation, thinking about multiple erogative zones and how you can get tools that can hit two spots at one. So, like, create an excitement within yourself. And then also to expand your pleasure potential, which ultimately will make you a better lover and also bring more possibility to the

bedroom when it comes to pleasing someone else and telling someone else how to please you. I love that you brought up doing butt stuff on your own because I think that it can seem scary if you've never done anything with a partner and it might seem a little embarrassing to do it on your own, too. You know what I mean? I'm not saying that that's my story. be someone's story. And I think that a lot of this can have like shame and embarrassment surrounding it, which there shouldn't be. But that's such a good call of like, why not see how it feels in your body alone before even bringing a partner into it? And then you, you've had some practice with stuff going up there or around there in the first place. And it's

not just this like scary thing where you want to try bought stuff with your partner. And it's funny because one of the toys that we have, it's like, it's a C, it's a curve. And so it's a clit sucker, for lack of a better word, air pulse suction vibe on one end. And there's a vibrate in the other end. So you can turn it, you can bend it and then it can be inserted. But I do it where like, I don't put it in my butt, but I like, it's touching my butt because I like a sensation back there. And it's just funny because brain is not so much into stuff on her butt, but I am. So I've kind of figured out how to use this toy to even like, and this, we're not trying to bring you on here to help to plug the line. But I just like,

we wanted to get what you in. Intended bitch. But I love that you said that all of that stuff of like mixing it up. And try tonight, try that vibrate that you guys have the suction air pulse on your nipple. If you don't have a second toy for federal, you can use your hand. But yeah, it will. It'll that'll like, because it has to grab it. Yeah. And it's just like a like case. I'm obsessed with that. Shan is our new product development manager. I never, is it bad that I've never thought of that. Of course you can stick your nipple in there. Yeah, you stick your nipple. When she was talking about it, I was thinking about it. And if you're not, if you want to see if you're into butt stuff.

So I don't think it's weird at all because I've never been into butt stuff. But I was like, maybe there's something I'm missing because my partner can't do it the right way. Let me see if I can do it on me the right way. So like I've used like a tiny little bribber on my like taint, my bottle to see if I like it. I don't like it. Right. You like tested it. Yeah.

Yeah. Even alone you don't want to. I want to be the annoying person was like, but have you tried butt beads. But it's a long life too. That's also a really big point too. I think life is long and you don't have to pressure yourself to do all these things and try all the stuff in one. If for you, you're finding a lot of joy and stimulation out of the same playlist, the same position, the same technique for masturbation, keep doing that. It's when you get to a place where you don't feel as motivated or you're like, I should probably pull out a vibrator.

It's been a while. That's when you're like, okay, how can I bring excitement and joy back into this space? because that's going to massively impact my experience here. And then also, again, make me a better lover overall. So that's the only time. But if you're liking what you're doing, keep doing that. We always tell women and all of our listeners, like live a life you're proud of that's full

and you have hobbies and interests and you're doing stuff, you're not sitting around waiting for someone to text you back. So it's like, if you're like, I'm just kind of lacking stuff to do, like, try anal beats. You know, like if you're like, I just feel like I don't, I don't have enough hobbies or I don't really love yoga or like I'm not doing this stuff. And I feel like my life, I don't have enough going on.

I'm sitting by the phone. It's like there's so much you could be doing to feel pleasure in your body. Like get into it. So yeah. That's a great bumper sticker by the way. If you're bored, you can't figure out what to do. Try anal beans.

We'll make it. We'll make a bumper sticker. It'll be our fall line. We move on my tank top. Yeah. We're making Chan a custom tank top. We got the slogan. Well, Shan, this was incredible.

We love having you again. The conversation just flows. And you're just one of our favorite guests and you have so much to say. we love talking to you. Yeah, we love you. Can you plug all your things and I have a new show coming out? So I plug all your holes, Shan.

You got to plug your holes, while you plug other stuff that you're doing. Well, in the spirit of one butthole. I only think, I always say this, you get one wish with people. My one wish is my podcast, lovers and friends. And there, I plug my other things.

You could just go there. And then if you're inspired to go other places, but start with one. You know, it's like today. Start with one tip that you found. practical and accessible to you. Start with one, lovers and friends of podcasts.

Raina, I'm going to get your ass on there. I'm going to say it. The week that this comes out, this will come out too. It's not the following week. I already have Ashley on there. We had the most fun on our talk. I loved that topic.

I love the two of you. And like, let's get whiskey and go tanning and eat sushi. Yes. We need some raw fish sometimes. We'll catch you between the next pregnancies. Yeah. And we'll have you on when you're pregnant again. Thank you.

much again and we'll see you soon. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye. And of course, Girls Gotta Eat Podcast.com hit our website for everything, for tour dates, for merch. You can follow us on Instagram and Girls Got to Eat Podcast and Vibes Only. Girls underscore Got to Eat on Twitter.

And I am Ash Hess on everything. TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, Raina is Raina. Dot Greenberg. And I think that's it. And we'll see you next week. Have a good week, guys. Bye.