Girls Gotta Eat - The Truth About Marriage Laws, Divorce, and Prenups with Attorney Laura Wasser

Episode Date: May 9, 2022

It was an honor to discuss the legalities of marriage and divorce with truly the best of the best -- attorney Laura Wasser. She explains the importance of knowing the laws of your state before getting married, and educates us on prenuptial agreements, from how they work to whether or not you need one. We're also discussing postnuptial agreements, annulments, how to be more informed about the finances in your relationship, and the advice she gives anyone considering or going through a divorce. Before Laura joins us, we give tips for nudes (again) and have a ridiculous conversation/debate about masturbating on planes. Hope you enjoy! Follow Laura on Instagram @laurawasserofficial and find out more about marriage laws and divorce at divorce.com. Follow us @GirlsGottaEatPodcast, Ashley @AshHess, and Rayna @Rayna.Greenberg. Visit our website for tour dates, merchandise, and more. Thank you to our partners this week: Daily Harvest: Get up to $40 off your first box at dailyharvest.com/gge. Jiminy's: To learn more and save 25% on your first purchase, go to jiminys.com/gge25 and use code GGE25 at checkout. Article: Get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more at article.com/gge. Native: Get 20% off your first purchase at nativedeo.com/ggedeo or use promo code GGEDEO at checkout. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Have this conversation. Then that thing will be less sexy. And maybe because of that reality and that rawness and being able to like open yourself up so vulnerably, you'll actually stay together for longer. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Welcome back. I am feeling great because I just got the wordle in two tries and I am in my follicular phase of my cycle. So I have energy. What the fuck do you say to me?

What should you say? A little bit. No. I mean, I'm learning more about my body. I'm going to get a doctor. People were messaging. I'm going to get a doctor. People were messaging last week.

They were like, I'm like 36 and I need a primary care position or, you know, stuff like funny, stuff like that. It was really funny. Yeah, me too. On my health journey. Yeah, me too. I'm on health training too. I woke up this one.

I haven't been feeling great. I'm out of like my routine. And so I woke up and I worked out for the first time like six weeks. I don't feel physically right, but I feel superior at other people, which is important. and I will do it on Saturday morning and feel exceptionally superior to others. I feel superior every day when I do the whirdle. You never hear Ashley emot more than when she's doing the whirdle. I always think there's an emergency.

I don't know. Thunder the other night. I don't know. I'm sorry. Was that thunder irregular? Because people were going crazy about it. Yes. I woke up and I thought the city was under attack.

I was like, this is it. It was trending on like TikTok and Twitter. Games everywhere. It got me thinking. I, Azul was terrified of thunderstorms. So, I mean, it did wake me up and then he was like crying, but I didn't feel like it was especially loud. But then I thought to myself,

I feel like I haven't heard a thunderstorm in a really long time. Prior to that, I was like, I literally don't remember the last time I heard thunder. Is this a climate change situation? So like when you're on your call map, do you, if you heard thunder, like, it was exceptionally loud and long. It was like. I like that guy.

Like that guy. It was so long. It was like a break and they kept going. You would call him a thunderous comer. If you will. We're having fun. All right. Oh my gosh.

There is a announcement list. But it's fun stuff. It's good stuff. It's all fun stuff. One month from today. 6.6. 6. 6.

6. Easy to remember. Week of 6.9. Sex, sex. Sex, sex. We are five. finally launching the new company. I'm so excited.

It's happening. That is a date. Set in stone. Yeah. Unless something crazy happens. But we cannot wait. And honestly, we know some of you guys think you know,

but you don't know. It is so big. It's like two companies, actually. Yeah. It's this huge brand. We work so hard on it. We've taken all of our money.

And all of our time, we self-funded this. It's been a time of year. We've been a time of year working on this. And we are so proud of it. And we cannot wait to release two guys. So that's the date, 6-6. Keep an eye out for it.

Yeah, and you'll find out. But again, you don't know. We're about to change the whole world. You think you know, you don't. You don't know anything. But then once you know, you will know. If you know, you will know. And then you will buy it.

And then you will know. Save your money. So anyway, just wanted to tease it. Put on your calendar. STD. Save the date. Don't buy anything until then. Except tickets to the live shows.

Yes. Oh, amazing segue. Okay. We have some live shows coming up. And we just got back from a weekend in Missouri. It was really fun. We did St. Louis Friday night. We did Kansas City Saturday night.

It just, it really was a blast. We have never been to Kansas City. That theater was absolutely incredible. We did the Midland in Kansas City. And in St. Louis, we did the pageant. And it just, we had such a blast. If you guys came out, thank you so much. The stripper in St. Louis is the biggest dick I've ever seen on a human being.

It was just slapping against my whole body. It was really just slinging around. Yeah. And we had these incredible dancers in Kansas City. Empire Dance Academy. They were all smoke shows, like such bad bitch, girl power. They open the show. You guys can check them out. And I think take classes and stuff. Empire Dance Academy in Kansas City. And yeah, we loved going there. You know, while we're here, we were in St. Louis and Nikki Glazer is a new show on E. So you guys can check out her reality show. And it's all filmed in St. Louis. So it was like a kind of funny thing because it premiered right the weekend we were there.

And Andrew Collin, who has been a former guest in the show. You guys know Andrew. He's on it. And it's about like her being in St. Louis with their family and stuff. so you guys should check that out. Yeah. Especially you're in St. Louis. How cool is that to, like, watch it? You're like, that's my city. I know. I can't believe we were just there.

We tried to get them to come, but they had showed. Oh, yeah, they showed. And then in Kansas City, if we can give you guys a wrap, we stated this unbelievable hotel that, like, everybody there says, like, the best hotel there too. It's called the Crossroads Hotel.

And there's just, there's restaurants, there's a rooftop bar. It's, like, really industrial. It's one of my favorite, like, hotel rooms itself. The floors were slate and Ashley took great nudes there. I go into a hotel, and if it is, like, a sexy hotel room, especially with a walk-in shower.

You know, I hate a tub. I just want a sexy shower to get blowjubs in. I take my clothes off immediately. Yeah, I know. You went to the hotel and, like, Bella was getting ready to go to sound check. And then I was like, what am I going to do for the next like four hours?

And I was like, is that I'd be trying to like come like take a ride with me around Kansas City. Both you were like, I'm good. And you were taking it. So I have like some really sexy bra and panty sets. And I don't wear underwear normally. But I'm just going to admit this about myself that I'll bring it on the road to take hotel.

I don't know. Get the fuck out of it. I hear. But actually, those full coverage panties I did wear under that dress. So, but I've brought them before just to take photos in because my bedroom and my bathroom are not sexy enough. You're an icon. You plan outfits for your nudes? This is crazy. Also, what's the, they're not nudes. What's a better word? I mean, I guess you can see some nipples. Sexy picks. Sexy picks. Yeah. So that bathroom was so sexy. And I took some photos, you know, for my own archives, my own file. But then I did this other thing that I'll talk about, I guess, because I'm shower nude queen.

I took a photo. I did send it to somebody that we like joke. We talk about like showers and stuff. So I basically, because we fucked for the shower a lot. So I take a photo. You just a guy I joke about showers with? It's a guy I'm fucking the shower. Trying to fuck in the shower again.

So I took, I brought the lights down a little bit. There was like two lights, which is like turn one down. So it was like low lighting. And then I just took a, I got naked, fully naked. and then took a photo basically of the shower and you could see just a slight reflection in the glass. So you could see like the shape of one of my breasts. You could kind of see a nipple.

You could see like where my vagina was. You could see the gap between my legs. You could see like, if you look closely, you could tell there was a body in there and there was a silhouette. So it was so subtle. Like I wouldn't care of it ended up anywhere. It was not. You couldn't tell who it was.

It was just like, yeah, you could send to Raina's dad. I could send to your dad. I sent to my dad. No, I'm kidding. But that's a tip that that's like. Like, that's not somebody that I would send a naked photo to. So I was like, this will be perfect to, like, you know, hopefully get the wheels turning.

But then I went full on, like, my bra and panty set and, like, took a ton of photos. I think that it's nice to just get the juices flowing a little bit. With somebody that you're not continuously sexting and setting that stuff too, but like subtle nude. Yeah. I'm going to teach you guys how to take better subtle dudes with the new company. With a new company. But the hotel was incredible.

I loved, like you said, this industrial. I couldn't get over the floors. Like, the floors had that stone look. And then there was a four-post or bed. which is sexy. Very sturdy. Yes. If you want to hold on to it.

Or like handcuffed to it. Yeah. Everything was great. I just like laid in bed. And then I got some really delicious food. And then I watched that the principles of pleasure. Is that what's called? The Principles of Pleasure on Netflix that Raina talked about.

But anyway, that is where I learned a little bit more about my period. And we want to do an episode about period health and birth control. And Ash and I have had, you know, long journeys. I have an IUD. You're on birth control. So we are focusing on doing an episode on that soon.

Yeah. And I mean, know, like not to bring the mood down, but we're recording this right after the Supreme Court may be overturning Roe versus Wade. And it's something that I lack like words for it in terms of like how we're regressing in time and like what the GOP has done and like where the Supreme Court is right now. It's like a terrifying place. And so the decision has been made yet, but these court, these docs were leaked and it sounds like that could be something that like, I just hate it because people are like, what's, you know, what's the worst that could happen if we, you know, elect Trump and off and

And it's like, I don't know. Like, he elects three Supreme Court justices that sit there for life and, like, they try to overturn rovers weight. But it's just, it's really devastating. And it's never been about abortion. It's about controlling and criminalizing women's bodies. And it's just so disgusting. And it's like, I'm not trying to be a fearmonger, but it, you do have to be like, you never saw this coming. But what's next?

It's plan B. It's birth control. Like, it's always women's health on the chopping block. And it's horrifying and so disgusting. And I don't know. I mean, you know, we always say like vote in every election no matter what. but it's tough because there's like what else do you do? We aren't experts on it.

You know, we're not political commentators, but we would be remiss to like not talk about something. It's like we've been talking about amongst ourselves all day and like we feel so strongly about. Yeah, I mean, we both, I mean, you saw it last night because you stay up later than me. But I woke up and, you know, it was immediately filled with dread and sadness.

I texted Mira who was on our show. And she did a phenomenal episode for us about abortion. She works with Planned Parenthood. She said she was being pulled into press all day. But, you know, we will work to share, resources we can with you guys, but other than, you know, just think about who you are voting for and don't ever say to yourself, what's the worst that can happen? It's the short term, you know, people like Donald Trump empower other politicians to do these type of things. And, you know,

he's out of office, but there are tons of people in office now that he has put in power and empowered. And it's a very frightening thing. And, you know, if you are afraid, you know, we stand by you. And yeah, and it's not all Trump. Like, I'm not, you know, I'm not saying that to one person's Yes, this is what the Republican Party has been doing forever. And they don't fucking care about the fetuses. You know, like, it's just like, I can't stress that enough. It's not about that. It's never been about that.

And I can't believe that this could happen and what this would mean. And, you know, there are so many layers and there's so much nuance. This doesn't mean, like, you can't get an abortion tomorrow, but it will make it really hard. And all these states will enact all these insane laws. They're going to criminalize it. It's going to be really bad. And, I mean, everything else is going on. I mean, it's like, where do you even start?

Like, we've just gone back in time. with like books coming off the shelves and like the don't say gay stuff. I mean, it's just like really terrifying. And it's like sometimes you can't even keep up. And then you want to just not look and like not think about it. And I was saying to you recently, I was like, I feel like I used to be so much more posting stuff and activism and all the stuff.

And like sometimes I'm like, I can't digest it all and you look away, but I don't want to do that either. And we have a platform that we want to use. So we always want to strike that balance because this should be an escape and this should be fun and funny, but we can't not speak about women's issues, especially. Yeah. And, you know, if you guys have incredible resources, we would love to share them. And if you have limited access to medical care, you know, we stand by you and we will always do whatever we can to help and at least to uplift the message and share our position on it and whatever else we can. So if you guys have great resources, please share them and we'll continue to share for you. Yeah, you can always Google abortion funds. Yellow fund is great. Follow them on Instagram, see what they're up to. You know, everybody kind of thinks of Planned Parenthood, but there's, which is great. We love Planned Parenthood. But there's so much.

other things to do, especially within your own community. So, okay. Let's talk about places you can still get abortions, and that is Detroit, Indianapolis, and Pittsburgh, where we will be going for our live shows at the end of the month. So, yeah, get an abortion there and go to our live shows. No, this run of shows is really special to me because I went to college in Indiana, and I grew up in Pittsburgh. In Detroit, I have no connection to you, but I'm sure it'll be fun.

Eminem. Yeah, Eminem. We've done one show there. We're excited to go back, make a new memory there. And these shows are going to be really fun and special. Pittsburgh, I think, is sold out. But who's to say? Who's really to say?

They released 20 tickets last week, maybe next week they'll release more. You can grab some for that. And then Toronto. And that is it, guys, until... Wait, hold on. Is that, Greta? What is happening? Wait.

We're getting real time updates about Pittsburgh and the potential show opener. It has been a journey. Regardless, all these shows, Indiana, inapolis. keep important to say Indiana. Indianapolis and Detroit are locked in. The show opener are, oh my God. We're so, so excited. Oh, my gosh. Like, you know, if you live close by, again, like we're not going to really tour the summer much. So, I mean, we won't be back to that part of the country for a little bit of time. So come to the shows. We're doing something

really wild that we tested out in a Kansas City that was fun. So the shows are getting wilder. They get wilder by the show. We're never done. We're never like, this is great. We should stop. We're always like, what can we do better? It's like fashion. It's never finished. So every show is crazier. Yes, we tried out something very wild in Kansas City. If you guys were there, we had some very special guests at the show. And we're going to do it again in these new cities. So come.

And then Pittsburgh, my whole family will be there. So you can watch me get stripped on in front of my dad. It'll be really fun for everybody. And then Toronto, and that's it. We're done for the summer except for one or two shows maybe. And then, of course, Ashley has shows in June and August. You can go see her. Yeah, they're almost all sold out.

A few tickets left for the late show in Philly. Everything was sold out. Thank you. I love you guys for coming to support me solo. Okay, Raina, hold on a second because we plugged the Crossroads Hotel in Kansas City. I want to talk about the moonrise. I don't. We stayed. The dog floor at the moonrise.

Raina stayed on the dog floor. It's the whole thing. I didn't. So I had a great experience. We stayed at this. It's right next to the pageant in St. Louis. And the funniest thing is that it's called the Moonrise Hotel. The entire hotel is moon themed.

I have never seen anywhere restaurant, hotel. bar commit to a theme that hard. So the three of us were laying in bed after we got back to the hotel, not together in our own separate roofs, and sending each other photos of moon-themed art. But you guys hadn't seen it yet. So I was like, we're walking back to the hotel. I'm like, did you guys notice the all moon everything?

And you were like, what? I was like, oh my God. There was art. There's moons everywhere. There's glass cases with like when we set foot on the moon. Like it's just crazy. It was just so hilarious to me. the level of commitment to moon.

So anyway, you guys should check all the Moonrise Hotel, but do not stay on the fourth floor if you don't have a dog. And just listen, I don't want to love dogs. I don't love when all the dog owners are out on the town and the dogs are communicating through howling at each other. I mean, that's a crazy thing to put them all on one floor. I mean, of course, I love dog-friendly, anything,

but knowing what you know about dogs, they need to be spaced out throughout the hotel because, yeah, they're all going to start getting each other riled up. It was crazy. It was really crazy. Ashley would have laughed. Ashley would have packed up and got to a different floor. I am too lazy. You're more sensitive to smells and sounds than I am

than really everybody. I was in Portland laying in bed, had flown in, landed at one in the morning and switched my room after I was naked in the bed because it was so loud. It was on the street. I was like, are these cars in the room? We were trying to have a company, all hands for our new company with everybody. Somebody brought a salad and smelled bad. Ashley could not focus. That was one of the worst smells. I smelled like, I felt like I was humble. I was. in someone's feet in my face. That sounds like, every time I tried to like start a new conversation about work,

Ashley brought it right back to the salad. I am sensitive to smell and sounds. I had this experience in the elevator the other day. It's just like a funny story, but I wanted to tell you because it was very shocking how like casual this was. So I got into my building elevator the other day. I had gone to CVS to grab some pack a tape

to pack up these boxes about a clear packing tape. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I get it. have packing you never heard of it um so i get in the elevator and there's two guys in there i don't know they're mid 40s two white guys and they have hit different floors they don't live together so i'm in the elevator i'm between the two of them i'm holding my packing tape i don't have a bag i'm just holding the packing tape and then the one guy on my right goes you're gonna go kidnap somebody and i was like i'm gonna be like spicy and i was like you know what i am gonna go

kidnap somebody thinking i'm being like really edgy and he goes you don't want that you want the black kind. It's hard to talk and get that off. And I was like, what? And then the guy on my left, who doesn't know that guy goes, you don't want that. You want the silver tape with the strings in it. Wait. People can't rip it off. Did you recognize them? Are these just two

casual murderers in the building? I've seen both of them in the building carrying bodies out. They live there. And they're putting bodies down the trash shoe. Just monotone giving me tips for how to murder and kidnapped people? Were they hot at all? No, they were not hot. They look at the kind of people that would kill you. Yeah. Listen.

if they were kind of hot. Like, wouldn't it be kind of funny and sexy? I mean, everything is funny and sexy if you're hot. It just, it was very crazy how, like, nonchalant it was with a stranger. Because, like, I, I mean, we have this platform, so I think about every single thing that I say constantly all the time. But these guys were just like, you don't want that. You want the silver tape with the strings.

I think they're right about the silver tape. I feel like when you see someone being, yeah, definitely. So speaking of stuff that just gets said nonchalantly, I think we need to address something from last week. You're amazed at the trenches. I know, we're killing it. So this woman on Twitter, her ad is Jean Faux-Gautier, which is kind of funny. Like John Paul Gautier.

So she tweeted, she said, Girls Got to Eat, hi, long-time follower, second-time listener, which I'm like, what? She follows us on Instagram. But she's only listening twice. Okay. And I have a question for science. So, like, y'all talked about sharding so casually today, I was shook. How many times have y'all shard in your lives?

Do y'all shart often? do white people shit their pants often. Which is so funny that this woman who is not white is thinking like, white people are crazy. Because we did. Is this not affliction for other races? Only white people shit their pants. No, it was just funny that she was like, these white bitches.

Like it was a little too cavalier on last week's episode. Yeah. I don't think it's ever cavalier. I know what she met. So I would like to come out and say that I had a minor situation during quarantine. And that is the only time. that I've shit my pants since I was like six. And that was when I was staying outside the house.

I was locked out. And it was like a traumatic experience. I think I've shared on the show. So in adulthood, ever since I was six, I have not quote unquote shit myself since one year ago, two years ago in 2020. Can't speak for Raina.

I know she's done it a lot even in our friendship. Like I know, I know December 2019. She did it a lot. I know like. I did it a lot December 20th. When you had food poisoning, 2018.

2018. And that was a, I was really bad. Yeah, when I have food poisoning, I shit myself. But anyway, I can't speak for all white people, but it was rare for me. I did say it very casually. Like, I was like, didn't I do this? It really did actually.

When you said it, it surprised me, because I did not think you were going to cop to it so fast. I was just talking about me. I'm low-key regretting it. And I've got to figure out a way to get guys that I would ever want to fuck to stop listening to this show. Let's see. One of the guys that I've, he doesn't have to use.

podcasts. One of the guys I sub with most recently does listen to the podcast, but I don't care. Yeah, I mean, I think you're going to like it or you don't. Yeah. Everybody's sharded, right? Every all the white people. All right. A couple more things. I'm going to list. Guys, our guest today is such a boss. I cannot even get over it thinking, like she is the most famous, best, hottest divorce attorney in America. In America. Yeah. I mean, if you think about any high-profile divorces, I mean, I will intro her in a few minutes. But, like, I didn't even mention that she handled the divorces for Ryan Reynolds, Johnny Depp, Jimmy I mean, Dr. Dre, Hillary Duff. I mean, she has handled everyone's. And in a moment, you will hear me intro more people.

I mean, it's crazy. All of the, all of the Cardinals. And Chris. Jeez. I love her so much. You guys are in for such a treat. Yeah, this is really special. Raina, I have a two couple.

We're all over the place. Great. a couple wrecks that I haven't want. So pre-rex. Dale's movie. What does it call us on Amazon? I would like to shout out the girl that wrote on our Instagram that my laugh is terrible.

You could stop listening to our show because our laugh is the best thing that I do on this show. That girl was the fucking worst. Anyways, Dale, I'll watch anything, Dale does. Dale's movie. Where is it? It's on Netflix? No, no, no. It's on Amazon.

Okay. Okay, yes. This Dale's movie is called Love Game Match on Prime Video. Okay. And Dale's in it. So we got to watch that. Should we stay home tonight together? I was playing on watching it tonight.

And then Chris Decefano special. Spechy-weshy on Netflix. I'm so excited to watch. I watched the first like five minutes this morning as soon as I woke up. I've been watching the clips. So Chris has been on our show twice. We love him so much. He self-produced the special at Gramercy Theater in New York City

and was just going to put it out himself. And then Netflix bought it. And he's just so funny. We love him so much. So guys check that out on Netflix. He's out now. He's so good. It's outrageous.

Ashley and I went and Bella went saw him in Austin. We had a night off. And I thought I was going to pee my pants. I fell off the chair. I was laughing so hard. He's so, so good. So I'm obsessed with the name. Speci-Wishy.

Krishy specials. I text him and congratulate him and I asked if he can do my show next week at the stand. I was like, no, Prushy. Okay, another thing. I have a rack. It's called Severance. I am loving it.

It's Adam Scott on Apple TV. It is a like sci-fi thriller show, which is like not my thing, really. If you guys were into Black Mirror, you'll like it. Oh, right, right, right, yeah. I think it's like an eight-part series. Really quick synopsis. Basically, it's sort of this like sci-fi futuristic thing where people have this chip implanted into their brain.

And when you're at work, you don't know that you have like an outside life. You don't know about your kids, your wife, your family, nothing. And when you are outside of the building of your work, you have no idea what you do for work. It's this company that has, like, created a special implant. And society knows about this. And, like, if you're on a date, like, somebody will say to you, like, what do you do for a living? And you say, like, I work for so-and-so.

I've had severance done. And people are like, that's what I'm going to say. So it's really fascinating. And you think a lot about, like, what would my life be like if that was my life? So this is real. This is happening now. This is happening now. This is real.

It's a documentary. Yes. It's a reality show. Like that other show that I told you. The one. Ashley. Ashley. Oh, my God. But it's great. It's on Apple TV.

Check it out. I'm really enjoying it. I started Minks, which I'm enjoying. I watched two episodes, and you are going to watch it, I think. Yeah, it's on my list. I have this whole list. I don't even know where to start. Because, like, you know. Because you have other stuff to do? Because we're running six companies. Yeah.

But that's on my list for sure. That's about a woman in like the 1960s that wants to start this feminist magazine and links up with this basically porn producer and they start a magazine. Okay. It's on HBO. Pretty good. So, okay, one thing I wanted to talk to you about, we all know, I mean, well, not all we don't know. LaGuardia Airport has been, like, under construction for decades.

And it's, like, been so shitty. And they redid this terminal, Terminal D. And it's, like, really nice. It's like on the water. The D is great. And I post on my Instagram story. Like, you were, I was like, look at this nice family bathroom. You were like, here's the family restroom.

You can fuck in it. Listen, no offense to your family. We're not trying to, like, not let families into the bathroom because we're fucking. I'm, it's just a joke. So Raina was like, there's a nice family. restroom and I posted up my Instagram story like here we love Terminal D it's waterfront and here's the restroom you can fuck in and people like slid my DMs talking about fucking in a restroom this one one was like I got pregnant in a airport family restroom like it was a real thing that people

are fucking in those restrooms. Yes it's real thing there's two bathrooms in Terminal D there's another one like further towards before you go up the the ramp back into the main terminal so there's two private restrooms in there and you can fucking them and it's nice they're spacious they're huge and they keep them clean they're kind of secret. You don't really see them because they're also really close to like the main restroom with a bunch of stalls that you would use. I've always known about this. Yeah, you do know about it.

I mean, I had a girlfriend one of the most iconic things she's ever did. She fucked in the shower in the Delta Sky Club. Which I didn't even know it was private. I don't even know if you can do it. She did it. I've never, I've had sex in a lot of places and I don't have a lot of like boundaries. But I have never had sex at the airport

and I've never done like Mile High Club. Have you? No. I mean, some of these restrooms on the plane, I am like, I can barely fit in here. Like, I'm thinking of like my brother. Like, he couldn't physically fit. Like, I barely can get in there. Like, I have never even been in one. Maybe on like a huge plane, like going to the West Coast or flying internationally. If I'm like, you know, flying Delta One or whatever, they are a little bigger. But outside of that, I've never been in, I always think about it. I always think of like, how could anyone fucking hear? I am teacup size.

I'm a very petite person. I couldn't have sex in one of those. And I don't want to. The smell is disgusting. I will do anything for the thrill except for that. I have done terrible shit just to get late. Not that. I absolutely will join the Mile High Club,

probably in the next few years, on my own private jet. And that will be my first time fucking in the air. I'm going to be on a PJ and that's what it is. I wish you guys should see she just threw up a piece on it. And that's what it is. I'm going to be Samantha Jones and Richard Wright and we're going to have some champagne and strawberries.

I'm going to get my pussy eight at 30,000 feet and that's when I'm joining the Mile High Club. I'm not going to, I'm going to be a Mile High Club virgin until it's on a private jet. I would never. I have masturbated on multiple planes. Okay. I like to sex a lot and sometimes

you know my like the last guy I dated long term was like so filthy. You don't see it when you look at him, but he was. And I have had to like get up from a seat and like gone to masturbate in the plane in the bathroom a bunch of times. In the bathroom. See, I mean, if you have your own little, like,

if you're in Delta 1. If you have your, what do we call it? Your pod. Your pod. Like, I don't know. I can hold in like an orgasm. I can go more like silent with it. I don't need to be like,

like I don't need to make noise. I can have a silent. What is your orgasm? I'm not going to really do it. Uh-huh. But I could have a silent orgasm on a plane. Yeah, but I can't get my fingers deep enough into my pussy.

Oh, I would be using a vibrator. You're going to be going to be. to bust out a vibrator on a plane. No, you won't. You're going to shove a vibrator in your pants in a plane. And then you're going to come, maybe, maybe not. Maybe you're right.

Maybe I'm, maybe I'm lying to myself. I think you're right. I don't think I would. I think you're right. How often, how many times do you've done is zero? All I'm saying is, let's just, let's think about it.

Like, if you are a really long, You have your own pod, everyone's sleeping and you're sexing with somebody and you have a little bullet with you. It could happen. You're going to turn on a vibrator on my name. A vibrator in first class where they are 10 feet up your ass every five, every five seconds, do you need a water? Do you need a drink? Here's a snack. Here's this entire box of snacks.

You're going to bust out of vibrator. I guess not. I guess you're right. But can I tell you that because I don't masturbate manually or acoustic, when you said you, you masturbated on plane 10 minutes ago. I pictured you with a vibrator. No. Maybe I'm lying to myself.

You're lying to yourself. Well, you can't press it. Maybe I'm not the bad bitch I thought. That's doing crazy. That would be like illegal and crazy. Why? You didn't get a real sex offender. Illegal.

You would be a sex offender to bring up to be masturbating with a vibrator on a plane in public. Do you be able to go to jail? for her. That's not true. Yes, it is. Are you serious? I guess you could go to jail. All right.

You will be mad with the air marshals at the gate. If you're just using your hand and they walk over and they're like, ma'am, you can't be doing that. And I would be like, prove it. Doing what? But you have a vibrator in your hand. I never thought of it like that. That being said, I masturbated on a Greyhound bus once.

And I feel fine about it. Yeah. With my hand. That's disgusting. But you're going to masturbate. pay with the, I guess I never thought about it like that. I guess I won't be doing it. I guess I'm going to have to wait for the private jet for that too.

You can just go into the bathroom. Well, I master me manually. So, yeah. I mean, if I ever find myself in an airplane restroom with a vibrator, I'm going to reevaluate my life choices. Like, how are you going to get, you won't take your phone into the bathroom, but you'll bring your vibrator. I have never done it.

You're walking down the aisle with a vibrator in your hand. You're like, girls got to eat, you know? That's what I'm saying. Like, if you find your cell. in a teeny tiny airplane bathroom with your vibrator. You look at the mirror. Are you like, what am I doing with my life? Are you like, I'm a bad bitch?

I just, I feel like I would just be like, I got to get done. It is what it is. You know? It is what it is what it is. Yeah, I don't feel any sort of way about it. I've gone to the bathroom to masturbate. So like, whatever. Yeah.

I'm like sliding off the seat sometimes. I'm just like, I'm in the middle of a good sex to session. Oh my gosh. Okay. Time for our guests. All right, guys. We have a very cool, very special guest today. She is an attorney specializing and divorce.

and was named one of the Hollywood reporter's 100 power lawyers. She is well known for her celebrity clients representing the likes of Angelina Jolie, Heidi Klub, Kim Kardashian, Christina Aguilar. It was very hard for me to edit down this list because there's so many. She is the chief of divorce evolution at divorce.com and the author of It Doesn't have to be that way. How to divorce without destroying your family or bankrupting yourself. Please welcome to the show, Laura Wasser. Hi, ladies. Hi.

We're so glad to have you. I'm glad to be here. I don't know. I don't know two single women who are more passionate about talking about pre-de-ups and divorce. So we're really excited to get into this with you today. Cool. You are coming to us from L.A. from your beautiful home.

I am like, I'm like such a horror for decor. I'm obsessed with your decoration. Yeah, I'm like trying to peek around. It looks amazing. Thank you. You know, it wasn't bad being here for two years during COVID. We're actually back in the office mostly now, but I got really used to doing podcasts here. So I figured it would be better.

And it's prettier, so. Yeah, it is. It's gorgeous. Well, you have an incredible career. You were recommended as a guest to us. We actually put on our story, who would you guys like to see on the show? And a few people asked for you. And we have wanted to do an episode about divorce and pre-nups for a long time.

So you are just the absolute perfect person. Oh, good. Look, there's nothing I like talking about more than this. I've been doing it for almost 30 years now, 27 or 28. So it's one subject that I actually know a little bit about. and I really like speaking to young people, particularly young women, because there's so much that we don't think about when we get into relationships, when we get married. And then unfortunately, when those marriages kind of are on the brink of ending and ending. So it's really good, I think, to know beforehand,

because it's one of those things that nobody ever talks to you about. You know, your mom might sit you down and say, here's what's going to happen on your wedding night, but she doesn't ever sit you down and say, well, here's what's going to happen when you get that pre-nup or here's what's going to happen when you get divorced. So I guess I'm not. person that's going to tell you that. A hundred percent. I mean, and the stat of half of marriages and a divorce is thrown around. Is that accurate? It's accurate and it does vacillate and it usually takes a couple of years to get the prior years staff. So we don't know exactly what COVID has done in terms of divorce. Also, there's been

so many holdups in terms of the court system. It's hard to say. So I don't know if the divorce rate went up or down during COVID. Everyone said it was going to go up. I actually think that some people might have had the opportunity to be like stuck together for certain periods of time and figure out different, you know, sharing of roles in the household because you were all there and that and also different ways and tools of communicating. And I think some people kind of emerge from COVID with healthier, stronger relationships. But like I said, it's just really hard to tell statistically. One thing to know is when you hear the statistic that, you know, 50% of marriage is then in divorce, that doesn't mean 50% of the people getting married or getting divorced because you have to imagine

and there's plenty of people out there that are getting married and divorce multiple times. So when you think 50% of marriages, you've got some guy that's like getting married every few years, he's taking up a big part of that average. Like my dad. Yeah. My dad's got three divorces under his belt. There you go.

My aunt Kathy. Well, tell us a little bit about your background. I mean, in terms of we can go back to you went through a divorce, but just what made you passionate about this type of law. It's hard to get passionate about this type of law. I actually, I grew up here. My dad was and is a family law attorney. And I got married when I was in my second year of law school.

And then after I finished law school, my third year of law school and took the bar, we split up. So it was about 14 months. And so we didn't have anything. We had some credit card debt. We had a lease on a house that we had in the Hollywood Hills. We had a dog. And I went to my dad. I wasn't working at his firm.

But I was like, listen, I need some money. I was working for like a nonprofit organization, making sure that all of the restaurants in Hollywood had rails so that people, disabled people could get in. It was very exciting. But I didn't make any money. So I went to my dad and I said, can I work here for this summer? And he said, yes. And I said, so Alvaro and I are splitting up. And he's like, okay, well, you know how to do it. So I worked there. I did my own divorce. And I realized even for someone that English was my first language, I went to law school and the forms and just the process were completely stunning. Like I didn't get it. And again, I was a lawyer. Like, imagine.

going through it, being like frustrated, heartbroken, scared, not knowing any of the legal lingo and having to go through it. So that kind of informed how I started representing clients. And obviously when I started working at the firm, I didn't have like, you know, big famous rich clients. I had some of the younger clients and some of the ones that we maybe did pro bono. And it always stuck with me. Like, we have people out there that cannot afford expensive divorce lawyers and probably don't need them, frankly, even if they can afford them. There has to be a simpler way, which is why I wrote the book in 2013 and then started a company in 2018, which was then absorbed by Divorce.com, who are really trying to make it simpler for people

to go through the legal process, simpler and less expensive and less aggravating, because, again, especially if you have kids, you're probably going to know the person that you're divorcing for the rest of your life. You shouldn't burn a bridge with them. It's not a normal lawsuit, like if you hit somebody on the freeway or you're getting into a, you know, dispute with your landlord. This person you're going to know. So we have to get you through it in a way that doesn't completely blow your bank accounts and so that you can continue working together and raising kids or having your, you know, co-owned stuff. For sure. I mean, I imagine there's a vast difference between, well, you tell me, divorces with and without kids. It's not that vast. Really, the kid, the custody and child

support part of it is a very different part. And one thing that I have seen over my career is that people are much better now about figuring out custody. You know, it used to be that mom would get the kids and maybe dad would have every other weekend and a Wednesday night. We're much more dad oriented now. We're much more equal now. And I feel like people by the time they get to divorce are much better about keeping the kids out of it, making sure the kids know that they're loved and figuring out a way to work together and share custody better than it was when my parents' generation was splitting up. I'm certainly the ones before them. We're more used to it and we get it more and kids get it more. That's so interesting. I never thought about that because my mom is a psychologist and when

my parents got divorced when I was four. My parents put my brother and I in therapy and it was very important that like we knew that my parents loved us. This was nothing to do with us. And my parents went to therapy with us about this. But I don't think that is super common. And I don't know a lot of people that had that experience 30 years ago. Right. Right. And now it is much more common. Maybe not as much putting the kids in therapy, but having either family therapy altogether or certainly like in Los Angeles, we are just rife with like co-parenting therapists, family counselors, people that will help you get through it, probably better and more equipped than a divorce lawyer who we're supposed to know the law. We apply the law to the facts. We figure out the financial

situation, but we're not qualified. And it always kind of irks me when family law attorneys like kind of insert themselves into it to know what's going on in the head of a minor child or how to best, you know, speak to them or whatever. There are other people that are really good at that. And, you know, in L.A. we're great at finding an expert, a professional for everything. So people come to me already with that kind of either worked out or in the process. And I actually think that's a good thing. Okay. So let's talk about pre-ups from the beginning. Like, why do you need one? You know, we don't need all the ins and outs and technical things about them. But I, you know, misconceptions, like what they exactly do in terms of coming into a marriage and leaving it. Like, let's just talk about

it for so our audience knows. I mean, we're fans. We're huge fans of pre-ups. Okay. High level is this. And again, it's going to depend on what state you're in and maybe you don't need a pre-nep. But what I find so fascinating, and look, I did this too even though I was a law student when I got married. You get married and you sign contracts. You get a contract

for the venue where you're going to have your wedding and you probably have some kind of a contract or invoice for the person who's making your dress and your caterer and the band and the string quartet and the florist and everyone else. You got all these contracts and there's clauses in there about what happens if it rains or all this stuff. But the most

important contract that you enter into and you're getting married is your marriage contract. And everyone goes, oh, it's so unromantic and it's not sexy. Dude, you're doing it anyway. When you get married, you're signing a contract. Whether you have a pre-up or not, the contract is the law in the state that you are going to live in and be married in is going to govern you. So if you split up and you as the woman are making more money for whatever reason, you're going to pay him spousal support.

And if you split up, half of the money, if you live in a community property, state like California is going to be his. And you need to know that. So again, it's not unromantic or sexy to go, okay, let me just check this out. What's the law where I live and what's the contract that I'm entering into? And then next is, does that work for me? Now again, it wouldn't work for me. I mean, I don't like the fact that if I'm working, I'm going to have to pay half of my retirement benefits and my money. And what if I'm a screenwriter and I write a screenplay? If I write it during my marriage, half of that's going to go to him if we split up. Half of that screenplay he's can own or I paint a painting or buy a house, you know, all of that stuff. I'm not sure I'm down for that.

I also don't know if he, you know, he and I both went to business school, let's say, and we were both stars, but yet for some reason we get out of business school and he's like lying on the couch every day and I'm going to work and I'm paying the rent. I don't want to pay him support. And what's good for the goose is good for the gander ladies. It's going to be the same whether you're making the money or he's making the money. It doesn't matter who the wife or who the husband is. if you're making more money, you're paying support. So if you don't like that, then you can say, I'd like to opt out of certain parts of the contract

that the state wants me to sign and make my own rules. And here's what they are. I'm going to keep all the money that I make during the marriage in one account, and you're going to keep all the money that you make during the marriage in one account. And we're going to contribute to a joint account to pay our living expenses, but nobody's going to accrue extra. Or if I started a company before we got married, my company is going to stay my separate property.

And whatever you can do is your separate property. But we'll both contribute. This isn't like we're, you know, but we're not going to be bound by the laws of the state in which we live. So the two really important things are, one, find out what the laws are where you live. And two, find out if that's something you want or if you want to opt out of it. And then you have a conversation. And so many people call me and go, how am I supposed to have that conversation? Isn't that pre-negotiating a divorce?

Isn't that jinxing my marriage? But as I said, you're already entering into a contract. Do you think it's super romantic that we get married and we, adhere to the laws of the state that we're getting married and nobody cares about that. So much of it is unsexy. It's just, it's what it is. Like, it's not the movies. Like, uh, anyway, I, well, I just, I want to say like, you know, I think that everybody is well-intentioned until they're not. And everybody loves you until they don't. And if you look at any breakup, they're really messy and people get really angry and people do things that you never expected them

to do to you in a million years before you even bring money into it and children and property. People do terrible things to each other. And I think it's, It's unrealistic to not assume that could happen. And I don't think that it is saying that something bad is going to happen in a marriage. If I protect myself, I think it's saying that this is a business proposal. And if anybody came to me with a business and said that it even had a 50% chance of failing, if somebody said to me it had a 15% chance of failing, I would want some contracts in place that protected myself from that failure.

And it's nothing more than that. And it's not because I don't love you or I don't trust you. It's just things happen. Let's just be realistic about it. Yeah. Well, and even more than that. If somebody came to you with a business that said, this is 100% guaranteed. Wouldn't you still want to know what the terms were?

Even if it was going to succeed. So again, you want to go in. And I also think it's really important. And this maybe is part of the sexiness that we can restore to the idea of preempts. Having communications before you get married to somebody, finding out, because one of the things in most states that's really important is full disclosure. I have to disclose what I have. I have to disclose my debt. Imagine getting married to somebody.

He's like, oh, like the way. I have a really big student loan that I'm going to be paying off with money I'm making during our marriage. Oh, and I also have an ex-wife that I'm paying. You have to disclose that before you get married. So that's one thing that's important in talking about it. And then also talking about what the expectations are. Like, you know, big-time expectations. I'm going to want to retire when I'm this age. So I'm going to want to put this much away every year. Or I want to make sure that we only have two credit cards and we're not maxing out a bunch. You have better chances of making your marriage work and stay together if you have those open lines of communication and you both know what

to expect going in. Can the expectations change? Yes. You can say like, I'm so into my job. I love it so much. I'm such a career woman. I'm always going to work. And then you have a kid and you're like, oh my God, I can never go back to work. I want to be home with the kid. Things can change and evolve, but you have to be able to talk about them with your partner so that you can figure out the best way of dealing with how those changes are. And if you don't have the changes, the conversations at the outset, then you're never going to be able to have them later on. as you're talking. And if you don't think it's sexy, this is one thing to say to your young women listeners. Guess what happens when you're giving birth and you're lying on the table? You poop.

He's going to be there. He's going to see you poop. That is not sexy. Have this conversation. Then that thing will be less sexy. And maybe because of that reality and that rawness and being able to like open yourself up so vulnerably, you'll actually stay together for longer. Absolutely. I think the common is conception, at least first, I mean, even for me, was that, like, you have to have a ton of money to need a pre-up. And I think you've reframed it for me, at least to just say, like, okay, if we walk away from this, this is just like percentages. You know, it's not that I need to be a millionaire and you need to make $50,000 a year.

We need to figure that out. It's just sort of like, also, wouldn't you rather negotiate with me now and I'm happy and everything's and I love you? Exactly. Yeah. Before you cheat on me? But, like, I mean, the other thing is this, you may have these conversations and realize that you really don't need a pre-up, that what you want, both starting this,

relationship is you both have nothing or you both have a certain amount and that's going to stay separate because that does stay separate. That's the law. What you come in with kind of stay separate. But we're going to get married and we really want to be partners and put everything into this together. And if that's good for you, then you're fine with it. And maybe you don't want a prenuptial agreement. But I just think it's important to know. Spousal supports another thing people talk about. What if we don't make any money right now, but I start making a ton of money through my work efforts? Do you really want to have to be paying a ton of spousal support? Let's set a cap on the spousal support so that I never have to pay you more than a certain amount.

Child support and child custody don't go in pre-nance. So that's going to be whatever it's going to be. You can't negotiate those things at the time of marriage. You have to negotiate them if and when you split up. So those don't come into it. But oh, and the other thing that you should know, because people always ask is you can't really put something in there. People do. And if people want to adhere to them, it's fine. But they're not really enforceable to these things. Like, if you cheat on me, then I get this. Or here's one I heard. If you don't lose the baby weight, then I don't have to pay you this. Oh, yeah. I was like, I can't go in there and say that to her. You're a horrible person. She's not going to want to marry you. But those are the kind of things that aren't enforceable because they define somebody's behavior. Yeah. Not putting the toilet seat down, too. I didn't write that pre-nep. I support it. I'm getting up. Can you, I have, I've heard the cheating thing said, but I, it doesn't. Is that not enforceable? If it's, can you put. in a thing that says if I catch you having an affair, you owe me $20 million?

Yeah, you can put that in there. And if she or she is willing to abide by it, okay. But otherwise, it's not enforceable. So I don't put things in my prenupt that aren't enforceable. But people have come to me with other prenupt. And I'm like, well, there's a clause in here about cheat adultery or whatever. And they're like, yeah, I want to enforce it. And either the person who cheated is willing to or not, you just kind of have to see.

I like to make sure that our prenups at our firm are fully enforceable. So we really try to stick to the letter of the law. So I have a couple questions. So without a pre-up, you do retain everything you came into before the wedding day. So it's just what's made after the wedding day. Right. In most states, again, California's community property. So it's a pretty clear delineation of what separate property came in before and not.

But people, what they do, particularly in other states that are equitable distribution states, which is the majority. I think there's only nine community property states. But in other states, sometimes people commingle the asset. So let's say I inherit something from my family. family and I use that plus money that my husband made to put a down payment on a house. So then that house would be owned jointly. You'd have to go back and kind of carve out what my inheritance was. And again, having a pre-up really sets things out clearly. So, okay, we're buying a house. I'm going to put this much that I inherited in. You're going to put this much. This is what will happen if we split up.

And it makes it simpler and you don't have to then be going back 13 years tracing, okay, what did I put in? How did this work? You have it all at your fingertips to look at. And it's not, to prove anything or to bust anybody. It's just kind of to be like, we have very clear expectations and an understanding of what we each came in with. I love that we started this conversation talking about when women make money

and they make more money. I mean, that would be more the situation we would be in. But like a lot of times you see the other side of it of like, let's just say for the sake of the example, a woman that is marrying a man that makes more. And the plan is that she would have kids and not work. And do you see a lot of women being like, well, I don't want to do the pre-up

because I want to be paid for my supporting this partner while he's making money. Like I'm going to deserve some of that. Yes. And again, and she would say, like, listen, I'm not going to pursue my career. I'm going to be performing the duties of this relationship from home,

whether that's actually, you know, making my own baby food and feeding the kids or figuring out which nanny to hire and which chef to hire that's going to blend up the baby food. I mean, it goes all socioeconomic ranges. But again, one, time, one thing that people in that situation will say is, I want a share of what you're making. It may not all be community property, but I want some of it to go towards the community so that I

know that I'm not completely left out in the cold. The other thing, and particularly in states where there's heavy statutory law about what prenupt will be enforceable, California is one of them, New York's one of them. If you enter into a contract that's unenforce, that's unconscionable, that's so one-sided, sometimes that will be a reason for it not to be enforceable. So for example, I'm 20. I just got out of cosmetology school. I'm maybe making like $25,000 a year scraping things together. And I meet my bigillionaire boyfriend who's got a ton of money and is always flying me everywhere private. And we stay in five-star hotels and we go on his yacht. We get married. She would probably not sign a pre-up that gives her absolutely nothing if

and when they split up. She would say, you know, I want a gift of a certain amount each year that we're together. I'm going to get support for a certain period of time with a cap when we break up. That way, if and when they split up five years down the line, a court won't go, well, this is completely unconscionable. She's not going to go from five years flying private and staying in five-star hotels to living in a refrigerator box under a bridge. We have to give her something. And so we don't want this preempt to be, you know, declared invalid. We're going to give her something. So we always like throw a bone to that person to make sure that he or she isn't just giving up the farm. But with, but in that example, this like, broke woman and this rich guy. Let's pretend it's

somebody that I'm dating. And they get to live high on the horse because of me. But either way, someone that does no money and someone that does, I mean, if you just get married without any pre-in-up, don't you get half of what they made automatically? Yes. But that's just, Cal, to tag on to that, are there crazy different laws in 50 states or are there just like three different

kinds of laws? Like, it's not 50% in all states. No, it's only 50% in the community property states. And there's only nine states. However, New York, for example, is an equitable distribution. state. So that's the other theory of law. You're still going to be entitled to a good portion of what your breadwinner spouse made during the marriage. He might say it shouldn't be a full, easy half. It should be this. And those are the only two ways of looking at it. But there are states, yes,

but there are other states, I mean, depending on where you live, Texas, for example, is particularly breadwinner, which usually is man friendly. They're going to be like, oh, no, you're not getting half of that. You're not even getting a court of that. But again, it depends on the judges. It's just a certain way of looking at how assets were made and held during the marriage. They also have lower support schemes. California's got one of the highest spousal support. So what we come up with is very similar to the marital lifestyle. So to answer your question, getting married without one, everything as it would be. If you say I want one, and neither one of you have much, but one of you really believes that he or she's going to be super successful. And the deal is that the other person

stays home and takes care of the kids. The person staying home and taking care of the kids is saying, not okay with you just keeping everything you make. You want me to not work, take care of our children, take care of our household. And look, that's not something to poo-poo. I mean, that may be decorating a 25,000 square foot mansion or something. There's, there is work to be put in there. I'm not saying, so he or she would say, I'd like 50% of what you make to go into the community. I want to make sure. And if, look, sometimes if you can't get on the same page about what the expectations are, you don't get married. Because again, if you guys, came to the table with a guy, neither one of you had a ton of money, but you had good careers and you

both felt very good about your careers. And he said, well, if you have kids, you're on your own, you'd be like, well, guess what? You're on your own now. I don't want to marry you because that doesn't sound like a good plan to me. I don't want to have to be competing with you for who's bringing home dollars if we've got kids at home. A hundred percent. And just so people have an idea. This can sound maybe a little overwhelming. Like, what are we talking how long it takes to giraffe one of these up? Is it fairly simple because the terms are kind of like, check the box, what you want, what you don't want? Or is this, is this like weeks, months?

Like, what is the, I worry sometimes people just don't want to do the extra work. But is it that much extra work? It's some extra work. I mean, the disclosure portion of it's a lot. And again, if you don't have much, then it's not going to be a lot to disclose. But if you have a lot of assets or complicated trust or, you know, limited liability corporations, then that can be. But usually with my clients, somebody's got a business manager.

Somebody is able to compile that for us. And then it really is four or five things that you're talking about. One is how you're going to hold the things that are made or purchased during the marriage. One's going to be the support component, what you're going to live on. There's some death provisions that you put in there because a prenuptial agreement can't be changed unless both people agree. A will, you can change. So you see these old guys that at the last minute leave all their money to their caretaker and the wife's like, what happened? You can't do that if you put something in the pre-nup that says your young, beautiful wife is going to at least be able to live in the house until whatever time.

gets this much of the estate, you can't change that. You can change everything else in your will, but this is going to pre-exist that. So that's another thing people put in there, especially if there's a big age difference or one person does kind of death-defying sports as like a helicopter pilot or does something dangerous. Those are things to keep in mind. So yeah, and then it's like the negotiation. Then that can be tough because both people have lawyers. And it's very interesting to me because most of the time family law attorneys are drafting and negotiating pre-nipers. We're used to to being aggressive and assertive and arguing and advocating for our clients. But when you are doing a pre-up, you have to remember, these people love each other.

They're not breaking up. They're getting together. So you have to approach it a little differently. You're not going to be like, I'm going to fucking kill. You know, no, you're going to know, this is nice. And after we're done signing this, you're going to go to your cake tasting together. So let's make sure that we have a lovely experience here. And, you know, some of my colleagues are not great about that.

And there are some of us that are like, we don't do pre-nub. That's just not my thing. I don't, you know, but I do. I like them. they make me happy. And again, I will say, for the most part, the pre-ups I've done over the past 20-some-odd years, I have not seen the people again for whatever reason. There have been a few that have come back and their divorces have been much simpler, at least the negotiating of the financial and the legal stuff than otherwise. They're still heartbroken and sad and scared, but at least they know what to expect

and it's so much less expensive and so much less aggravating. Oh my God. Yes. I can't imagine. I mean, I just, I believe it. Like the couples that are. going to do that and be reasonable and realistic about life and the way things play out and like let's make sure we're on the same page about all the stuff. I mean, it's not the same, but like, right and I would never think we're going to break up. We're going to do this forever. We still have stuff to protect us. And if we do, you know, and we're not fucking. You know, we have less to fight about and than a romantic relationship. So we have business managers. We protected us from each other. And we can sit in a room and be like the best of friends and be like,

okay, but what if we don't? What if we break up? And like, what does this look like? So I know it's different and, you know, it's not that different. Right. It's just people want it to be. They want it to be romantic. They think it's unromantic. It's like there's so many things. The best relationships have the unsexiest stuff where you sit down and you, if you're

like quarterly check-ins, how's it going? You divide your household chores up. None of this is sexy. But that's another thing to talk about, which is the fact that as women, we so often abdicate some of that financial stuff because it's not fun and it's not sexy. I always say to women, and now that you're married, you really, you really. should get in there quarterly and have those conversations with the business manager. Even though he's making money, it's your money. And I've seen so many marriages, particularly

in Hollywood, break up and one party or the other, often the woman be like, I had no idea. I mean, the idea that we were in debt. Teresa Judice went to jail because of what her husband was signing her name to. I know that they were trying to make an example of her, but like that is a very real thing that can happen. Like, that you are on the whole. for this stuff. Yeah. And I mean, I always say like, Ashley, like, jokes about going to jail. And I was like, you go to jail. I'm going to jail. What are you doing that I don't know about? We are going to go to jail together. I have a question before we like move on from pre-nups. What? We're not this whole episode. Yeah, I don't actually really enjoying this.

Can you talk to us about postnups and like, do those exist? And can you ask for that? Yeah. You can ask for it. They're more difficult because it's already, there's less leverage. It's not like, well, if it doesn't work out, we're not getting married. You're not supposed to say, during the negotiation of a post-nup. If this doesn't work out, then we're getting divorced. You're not supposed to do a post-nup to, you know, leverage against divorce. I see people a lot of times after somebody's maybe had an affair. And they come to me and they're like, okay, we're doing this post-nup because he cheated on me

and I want to change the terms of our relationship or of our pre-nup maybe and I want to fix it up. Hold on really quick. A post-nup is like midway through the marriage. You want to do a hurry-up basically. Exactly. It shouldn't be called a post-nep, it should be called a during-nup. During a nupt. Because the postnep is a divorce. That's after the nuptials.

So pre-nep is pre-nuptials, meaning the wedding ceremony. Post-nup is during the marriage. And again, there's all kinds of reasons for them. Usually maybe if somebody's financial circumstances have changed so much. You know, my parents passed away and they left me all this money or one of my trust started distributing assets. And now we're living at a certain level. And I want to make sure that that's dealt with. Sometimes people just rush so quickly to get married that they're like, oh, shit, I forgot to do a pre-nep.

Sounds like a licked and sand. I left my baby on the bus. But so then they'll come to us and we'll put something together within like a few months of the marriage. That's easier. But once you're in, there's a little bit difficult to negotiate, but it's doable. You have to have the same kind of disclosure. Everything has to be disclosed. This is what I have.

This is what I spend. This is what we do. And then you kind of get into it. But they are enforceable and people do them. It's just not as common. Okay. Well, I ask because I have a girlfriend who ended up getting divorced, but she got married and she found out very early on,

I'm talking like two months into the marriage, that her spouse had incredible amounts of debt. And he had not just closed that to her. And it was credit card debt and student loan debt. And she was making more money than him at this point. So she was really on the hook for this. And I think she was just paralyzed with terror for what this would do to her. And so they ended up splitting up,

but I didn't know in that case if somebody could then request a post-in-up and say, like, I'm not responsible for this. Yes. She probably wouldn't have been responsible for his debt anyway. But if I were her, I would have wanted to hear him say it and sign off on it so that every month he wasn't like, can we please? You know, like, and she'd be going out to dinner with you girls. And he'd be like, I have to work another shift at subway to pay for my student debt. Again, why it's important to have these conversations beforehand.

Can you imagine what a betrayal that felt like when she found out after they got married that he had all this debt? No, and I just, I wouldn't be afraid I was on the hook for the debt he accrued before the marriage. I'd be afraid of what you're going to do to me now that we're married. Like, what kind of decisions are you going to make now? I mean, you hear that a lot. Like I heard of this couple that broke up recently. They were engaged and she just hadn't been honest about like basically her parents paying for her life. Like her rent, you know, things like that.

She hadn't told him. And I mean, I don't know if he was, you know, sometimes people are just, they want to be naive. They just don't want to know. But then he found out. And he was like, wait, so what happens on the wedding day? I then pay what the parents have been paying, you know? And so they broke off the engagement. And I don't know if they're figuring out.

But I was like, I get it. Like 100%. That's not fair. Totally true. So, yeah. I mean, again, if you're having those kind of conversations before you get married, you're less likely to get into a, even without lawyers, less likely to get into that kind of a situation. People don't talk.

I mean, when I got married, he was Roman Catholic. I'm Jewish. We never even talked about like what religion we'd raise our kids, which was a sign to me later, looking back, that we probably were too young to get married. But conversations about like, hey, I was thinking that, you know, my parents are elderly and I probably don't want to put them in assisted living. We have a backhouse. Are you okay if they come live with us?

These are things that should be discussed before you get married because if somebody's like, oh, no, I hate old people the way they smell, the way they look, or I just hate your parents. You need to have those discussions before. Now, people aren't always going to be completely candid, but at least you can say, we talked about this, they're moving in. Yeah. I think people sometimes are so desperate to get married.

They want the ring. They want the title. They want all the things. They purposely don't bring that stuff up. Not everybody. And I think some people are just fucking stupid. But I think sometimes it's just like, I don't want to know the answer.

Right. Right. Which is, do you think that's changing, though? Do you think it's changing between like your guy's generation and maybe my generation? I'm in my early 50s. Like, do you think it's a little bit different now

that particularly women are like, I don't need the ring and the wedding so badly? I need to be smart about how I'm casting my lot for the next however many years or who I'm having children with? Yeah. I think that we're seeing more examples of women. having children and not be married and women making more than men.

Just people waiting in general, women are more educated than they used to be. We've done lots of interviews, people that have talked about how the marriage ages got older. Between that disparity. I don't know how often you are talking to people about their finances before they get married because you're a divorce attorney. But do you ever give people advice or if I was your daughter and I was getting married? Would you say like combine your finances? Don't combine them.

Have like a central bank account for the two of you and then have separate accounts. Do you have like advice about that? 100%. I would, first of all, and here's the other interesting thing. Women will come to me and like, you know, these are women that when I was younger, they were like the doyons of like Hollywood where they could get a table at any restaurant and they had a personal shopper at Barneys and Neiman's and Sachs. And like they just were like the most stellar amazingly styled women.

And some of them came to me later, you know, and said, I'm so embarrassed. I know I could get a table at any restaurant and I have a personal shopper and I wear only couture. but I don't have any idea what my husband makes, what it costs us to live. I know nothing. I don't even have my own credit card. So yes, what I would say to young women, and it's not just clients, but it's my, I have boys, but my friends' kids and young women that I speak with when I go to speak at law schools and business schools, always have your own credit card. You should have your own credit. I always tell parents, they get your kids their own credit cards. Like even if it's one of the Green American Express with a low limit so that you know how to do it. You know, kids these days because we have Venmo and everything else,

necessarily know how to like balance a checkbook, which is okay. I was never good about that, but have a bank account so that you know what's going in and what's going out of whatever that is your, your Zell or your Venmo and have a credit card so that you're building up credit so that when and if you want to buy something of your own, you have it. And then if, you know, not everybody has a business manager, if you're wealthy enough to have a business manager, if you and your spouse have a business manager, you get in there to those meetings. But I think young women and men should know a little bit about the stock market, even if you're just doing penny stocks and playing with it, don't abdicate financial responsibility, both when you're on your

own and as you are getting into a relationship. It's so important and it really will give you a sense of power, even if you're not working or being the person that's bringing home the bacon, know about it because it also makes you more of a partner. I have a lot of clients who they were not the working spouses, but they were the spouse that did all the finances. They paid all the bills. they know exactly what it costs for their mortgage and their utilities. The husband doesn't know anything. He's making the money. It's coming home.

The wife's doing it all. And I tell you, she's not the wife that's like coming home, sneaking like shopping bags into the closet because she doesn't have to because she knows exactly what they have and what they can afford and what kind of a party or a barmits for a quintiniere or a sweet 16 they're having because she's planning it. And those women really approach the relationship with so much more confidence. And I do believe that their spouses have more respect for them because of it.

A hundred percent. I mean, I don't know. The wealthier partner wants to be in a relationship like that. No, because you don't really have a partner. You just have somebody. And again, I've had a lot of these relationships, especially in Hollywood, where things have tanked or somebody's gotten canceled. And she's like, I never knew he was having these problems. And he never came to her. I mean, what is she his baby girl? Like his like, you know, this is his wife. She needs to know. He needs to be able to share this. I think they probably could have worked through the relationship if she would have actually. been a part of what was going on. I just don't think it serves anybody to keep this person completely in the dark, even if you think you're being paternalistic and protecting her. Well, do you think there's an element of someone making so much

that they're like, I don't, but then you shouldn't be married. Let's just put that out there. But like, you really don't want them to know, because they'll be like, whoa, I had no idea that you were making $100 million a year. You know, like, is there a level of, like, I dated someone, and this was a sign that it wasn't the best relationship. I just made so much more money than him.

and I didn't really want him to know. Right. Well, I think dating is a little different than being married. Once you, like, share a lease or move in or certainly have kids, it's a little bit different. You don't have to at the outset, flaunt. Like, hey, I got this meal. Don't worry about it. I mean, but yes, as you are getting more intimate and committed with someone, I do think it's important to share.

And I think you're right. If that person, if you, I don't say like, hey, can you show me a bank statement? And look, it's okay to say, like, I make a lot of money. You don't need to worry about paying for things. but if you were going to actually like, again, enter into a legal contract with them or have a child with them for which you're both legally responsible.

At that point, I think you have a right to get some information. Yeah, absolutely. And even more than that, like on top of how much do you make what are your attitudes about money? How do you like to spend? How do you like to save?

What's important to you? Do you want to prioritize first class flights and five-star hotels? Or do you want to prioritize, you know, retirement? Yeah, retirement and things like that. I mean, I'm not great at this. I don't want to act like I'm great at the money conversation.

It has been a huge problem. my relationships before, I will skirt the issue for a long time to the point that I am very angry and there is almost no way to bring it up. I don't want, you know, we can give all the advice in the world about, you know, having the conversation, but it's, I want to just acknowledge it's really hard. It's been hard for me and it's really tough and it has ended relationships for me. And maybe had I tried a little harder in the beginning, at least to express my anger, my frustration, the inequality. It might have... Or your expectations going in. Sure. And I think sometimes we as women, if we're making more, try to smooth it all over by paying for it or use this credit card

when we go to my go out for dinner with these friends and mine, it'll look like you're paying. That, I mean, do whatever you're going to do. But the thing is, an honest communication about what everybody's expectations are, because why should you get such feelings of resentment and be so pissed up? It may be a little bit his fault. Maybe he should know, but like in defense of the men, they're not mind readers. And we, if the genders were reversed, nobody would say boo about it. I mean, if he was constantly paying for dinners and whatever else, nobody would think that was weird. So why do we get upset if we're constantly paying for dinners?

Well, I don't know, but I'm upset. So let's talk about that. Yeah, because I think there's a world in which someone makes so much more that honestly they could pay for everything. It wouldn't even put a dent in their finances, but the other person, it would. And that's a matter of like, okay, well, we're going to this trip. You've got to get the Uber's or something.

Like that's just that's where the open communication has to happen because Rain and I both dealt with this. And again, it was kind of a reason for, a breakup that she had. And that's where it comes down to like, but I don't want him to know that I'm making this X amount because then he will kind of think

he's on a free ride, but I don't want that either. I wish he would pull his weight a little bit more. But that's, again, that's just like communication about what you can contribute and what feels comfortable for me.

Yeah. And we're spiraling. No, I think the money thing is important. And if I could like hit the pause button and go back in time, I would have said in a nice way early on in this particular relationship, I'd like you to offer

to split stuff with me sometimes. I'd like you to be more honest with me about what you could contribute. I'd like some more emphatic excitement when I do pay for stuff that you contribute to. And I'm really, you get to a point where you paid for so much and this has just become the scenario between the two of you. And you can't be like, well, I've been mad at you for three months and you've just been using me. The person's like, what the fuck? Why do you mention this? Right. And then let's mention one more thing, which is the fact that even if everything is cool and you totally do say, I make enough money. I want to go on this nice vacation. I'm happy to pay for

it. I'd be paying for it anyway. It doesn't cost more for me to have you in the room or order one more chicken. It's okay. But then at some point, many, many men through no fault of their own, start to feel really, really not okay about that. And then they start feeling like, well, who am I and what am I contributing? And I'm a loser. And then they start representing your wealth and your career. We know. So like again, we have a difficult time. And there's no easy fix for it. But if you're not communicating about it throughout, you're going to find yourself in a situation where either you're going to break up before you get married or you're going to get married. And then you're going to be paying this asshole fucking support, which is really a disaster.

It's such a nightmare. We had a family member that that happened. She started her business when they were married. And I mean, I was shocked. And I was shocked that he was like taking it, you know? And why should that be that way? I mean, it really isn't fair. But we are.

I mean, even, you know, in this day and age, we're still like, oh, my God, I can't believe that you would like take money from her. You're a dude. You have no penis? How can you do that? No kid, no kid. Like, it was just like, it was, it's the law. And I also just want to say, before we move on for this,

I know that it is a double standard. I know of men have paid for everything women have done for hundreds of years. I understand it. But I don't know. That doesn't mean. It makes me feel good when somebody takes advantage of me. And I'm navigating these new waters because these are different times. But also, like, I don't feel comfortable with a guy paying for my whole life.

No, I'm like, how do I get that way? Like, early on the podcast, I was like, I can't wrap my head around a married couple And again, this is what a lot of people do. And it's no shade. I can't put myself in the shoes of making no money. And you have to like ask your husband for money. Like he pays for you. Like he's your dad.

Like can I have money? Can I have some money? I'm like, right. Grina quoted me for months of me being like, can I have any money? Like I can't wrap my head around it. Remember the scene from Goodfellas where she says she wants some money and he goes like this? And then she's like more like this.

And then she has to bend down and give him a blowjob. Oh, incredible thing. Yes. One thing to know is that most relationships, whether it's your guys, you know, business relationship or romantic relationships, there is some kind of a deal. There is. I mean, it's okay. There is some kind of a deal and everybody knows what the terms of the deal are and everybody should be able to communicate the terms of the deal. You see these like, you know, gorgeous women with these ugly men, okay? There's a deal there, you know? Or vice. I mean, let's be real about it. And it's okay. And then he could. comes home because I lost my job as president of whatever movie studio and she's like, peace out, because I don't, the deal was, you know, the money or, you know, or bad plastic surgery had gone wrong. And he's like, I'm sorry, I got to go get the newer, younger model. That's the deal. And I do think, as long as we're communicating about it. And if the deal changes, get back in with a therapist.

You mentioned something in some of your notes about like having a third party there. I think that's important, not as a witness, but just a neutral third party that can be like, now hold up, guys. you said this was the deal, but you didn't mention this. And having that third person is often helpful when you are going through whatever kind of a mediation it is, either during the marriage or as a split up. And having those kind of third parties to help guide you, I think is really helpful because they also help you figure out how to better communicate. For sure. Yeah. Should we talk about divorce? Let's talk about divorce. I read a little bit about your book and you know, why people decided divorce, which I think it's obvious. There's a million reasons why. But

something that you brought up in the book that I thought was really interesting was that like some people will come to you for years multiple times where they retain counsel and they're just kind of like I don't know what's the word I'm looking for. Getting their ducks in a row. Yeah. And getting information. What are they? Sober curious. They're divorce curious. They're trying to figure out like what it's going to look like.

And so one thing, that doesn't happen quite as much anymore because now we have amazing resources online. And so you don't have to go sit in a divorce lawyer's office to get all the information. want to do that once or twice to see if you like him or her and you can imagine working with that person, but you can go online. And I say this to everybody that's, well, not only thinking about marriage, but thinking about divorce, find out what the law is. What is it going to look like if you get divorce? Do you live in a community property state or an equitable distribution state? Figure out those things and see. And divorce is scary. And it doesn't matter if you make a ton of money and you're rich and famous and you're like worried, oh my God, who am I going to go to the Oscars with or walk the

red carpet with, or if it's like the firm picnic or, you know, the company Christmas party. It's for you, it's all relative. And so thinking through how scary it's going to be, how are my kids going to be, how are they going to do when it comes to this? Are they going to be okay? And I will say this, we've really evolved in terms of children and how schools handle, you know, split ups. And as long as you're being able to be mature about it, your kids will generally be okay with it. And we figure out ways to evolve and deal with it together. But I think that yes, getting education about it's important. And, you know, look, it's pretty simple. You've got your custody piece, okay, that you're going to figure out where are they going to live,

and how far part are you guys going to live, are they, where are they going to go to school, what nights do you have, etc. The kid piece of it's one thing. You figure that, whatever. And then you basically got two other pieces of it, which are going to be your assets, dividing them up and your deaths, and then the support. So what I always say to people is imagine there's four corners, okay? You've got what you have, what you owe, what you earn, earn what you make and what you spend. And those are the four corners of any kind of a division of a marriage, because you're going to have to figure out how to divide your assets, divide your debts. Then if you're dividing your assets, you figure out how much you have to live on,

and then what you make and what you spend. And that's really one way of thinking about, okay, what am I going to have if this ends up going sour? How do I figure it out? And that's why we created at divorce.com, these kind of like schedules to go through. And so you can really look at it and think, okay, this is how we're going to end up. And you could make kind of a proposal to somebody saying, I will take less of our assets. I will take maybe more of our debt. But I'm going to need more support from you since you're working

and you make more than I do for a certain period of time. And here's all my expenses. I'm not going to have our house. So I don't need to pay mortgage. But I will need enough for rent and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Or like Sex and City, Charlotte just got the townhouse. I always think of Sex and the City.

And Divorce.com is there, is every state on there and what it looks like, state by state. I just, I think this is like one of the most prime takeaways of this episode is look at what the fuck is going on where you live. I think sometimes people don't ever think about that and they think like, oh, well, I know my friend got a divorce or got married or got a pre-ed-up in the state that you have a totally different set of laws. Correct. It is shocking to me because my dad got a divorce in Texas this year and he got divorced to my mother in Pennsylvania, so totally different laws. And I was, like you were talking about Texas is specifically hard on women. I mean, my dad's wife was the worst and she had an affair and fuck her. So I mean,

whatever, but, and we can leave this in the episode, I'm fine with it. But I was shocked by the divorce law in Texas because it is so vastly different than other states. And that was my first sort of foray into realizing like if you're married for under X amount of years, you get less money and things like that. I just, I never knew this stuff. So it is vastly different. Yes. So that's the first thing. As you're trying to figure out, do I actually take this plunge? Absolutely. Look at the law in your state and figure it out. And maybe yes. Like if you're, if you can't get what you need online, call a couple of divorce attorneys and see if they're willing to meet with you for free. Some of us ask for consultation fee. We don't. And, you know, sit down. It's the most surreal experience

ever to sit in a divorce lawyer's office. You're like, I cannot believe I'm sitting here. And if the divorce attorney isn't able to kind of conscientiously walk you through that, you know, and know that it's difficult. If they're just kind of like, this is what I do, it's been an hour, or get out, whatever. That's not a good person for you. You don't need a best friend and you don't need a counselor because we clearly at our hourly rates are not qualified mental health professionals. Most of us are hot messes, but we have to at least have some compassion for what you're going through. And if the person you're sitting in front of doesn't, that may not be the right person for you. I think that's probably one of the main type of attorneys you could ever need that you want

compassion. Yeah. But also not so much so that like they're calling to chat and see how you're date with because they're billing you for that. So that's weird too. You have friends. You don't need her to be telling about that. Yeah. So when somebody comes in to see you for that consultation, they're like, I can't believe I'm here, which I'm sure that everybody says that. Like I can't live sitting here. What are some other things that like you say really often that people are surprised by or information people need like day one? Time heals. I say so often the people, you know, you and I, you will speak to me whether we're done or not on May 3rd, 2023. And I promise you, you'll be feeling better than you are now. It's new. It's raw. It's scary.

Time heals. You have to go through a transition and just transitions are generally scary. I can't promise you it's going to be better than it is now, but it's going to be different. And it will certainly be less painful than it is now. And I think people need to really hear that. Also, the other thing I say a lot is your kids will be fine. Your kids will be fine. I've got two kids. I split up with, they have two different dads. I split up with each of their dads when they were two. My kids are really easy. I get along with both of their dads.

We do family things altogether. If you're okay, your kids will be okay. And as mad as you might be at your spouse for being a shitty spouse, he or she can probably still be a great parent or at least an okay parent. And kids are much better off having relationships with both of their parents, even if they're not great relationships, unless there's really like abuse or molestation, they should be able to make a decision of their own about how,

much they want to spend with their parents as they get older. Not when they're kids. When their kids, you got to see your dad. Sorry, you don't like it. If he's not hurting you, you got to go over there and see him. And you have to be able to say that to your kids. Yes. And we can't weaponize our children against our ex-spouse. That's how you get fucked up kids. Yeah. And kids know. They know that they're part of each of you. So if you're talking shit about their other parent, they're absorbing that and they're feeling that that somehow is directed at them. They have to. So we had a, we'll, we'll wrap up here, but we had a thing that we would just discuss before you walked away that we wanted to settle.

Settle a bat. What exactly is an annulment and when does it apply? Okay. So, and again, I don't know every state. I know in California because I actually had an annulment of that 14 months. It probably wasn't totally kosher, but because I was doing it myself, I could. They're a little stricter now than they used to be back in the 90s with annulments. But an annulment means, and this isn't a Catholic church annulment.

This is a legal annulment, okay? They are different things. They are different. Yeah, if you get an annulment in the Catholic Church, I don't know, because I'm Jewish. I have no idea. But in law, an annulment means your marriage never happened. Never happened, right. You have to have a basis for it then. Okay. And people are like, oh, I've been married under a year. I can get an annulment. Not true. The basis for an annulment is either fraud, mental competence, you were mentally ill. And so therefore, you couldn't

enter into a contract to get married. Or you weren't the age of consent, which also would be fraud. If you weren't actually 18 years old, you can't get married. But if you said you were, or your parents kind of sold you into marriage, like that. So those are the three things that you can get out of a marriage. But it's complicated because let's say you're getting an annulment. This is my situation. I got an annulment in 1994 after getting married in 1993. It means our marriage never happened. And yet, our picture hung at the Beller Hotel for about four years after that. So our marriage clearly happened. But if we had purchased anything or even made any money during that 14 months, that would have been community property. So to say it didn't happen

is very difficult. You have to like turn back time and put everything back to what. So that's why most courts don't grant an annulment unless there's those three kind of weird circumstances. And the fraud has to be pretty bad. Can it be like this person said he had a bunch of money? Like can it be like they conned you in a way? Yes. I mean, it would have to be a bad con. You're not supposed to want to marry something just because they have a lot of money. But if it turned out that everything he said was just ingenuous, he didn't only not have a lot of money. But he didn't only not have a lot of money. but you were going to have to end up to paying for them and this not another. I would imagine, and it's up to a judge whether he or she grants the annulment,

but that would probably do it. Could it be if you were like incapacitated in Vegas? Like that's what I think of an annulment. Well, yes, but that's why they're getting, that's why they're getting a little bit stricter about it because they don't want people to just come in and be like, I was fucked up. You know, yeah, for sure.

You somehow managed to get the words, I do out, you know? If you have the pictures that they had in the hangover at the end, then nobody remembered anything because they were blacked out. Maybe you couldn't know that. I don't know. Okay. I thought it was just a religious thing. So in the religious sense, it means like in the eyes of God, it didn't happen.

Like, it's only the Catholic Church. I'm a Jew. So it's not a community. I was thinking of like Ross and Rachel. Like that's like, you know, the whole thing of fun friends. So I was just, we were curious. Right. Yeah.

See, there's no annulment for Jews. They'll never let you forget. Big guilt. I got you a blender in 1993. You didn't send it back. There's no annulment. Yes, Jewish guilt. We're so big on it.

Well, I think the divorce advice is really great. Just, you know, have the conversation, have a consultation, maybe have a counselor, mediate. And I love the kids came up a lot because I am the product of divorce. And my parents both co-parented really beautifully and didn't, you know, they fucked me up in other ways, but not because they need each other. No, I mean, I will say, I'm here to say because I've watched it not only personally, but professionally for many years, it's doable.

You can have healthy children with healthy relationship goals growing up in two different families. And so if it's doable, and if a divorce lawyer's thing, it's doable, that has to have a grain of salt with it. So I think that that's something that we should. And this is why I always talk about the evolution of dissolution. We have to get better at this. It's happening. We can't just keep turning a blind eye. And I think if people go into marriages, being aware of what the laws are in their state and how it affects them and how to communicate, one, we'll have longer lasting marriages.

But two, we'll have situations where if the marriage ends, people are healthier and they're raising healthier kids. That's my jam. I love it. My honor. I wish you were here all day long. I know. We can talk to you forever. Well, thank you so much.

This was incredible. I love this conversation so much. We both love this conversation. Do you want to tell us where everybody can find everything about you? I mean, obviously, divorce. Everything about it. Yeah. Yeah.

Divorce.com. I'm there. And then I'm, my insta is Laura Wasser official. I don't do a lot of tweeting or Facebooking or anything else. But I have Instagram and, of course, divorce.com where you can learn anything you need to know about divorce in your state. You can process a divorce inexpensively. We're here to help you. And again, search the web.

Like there's all kinds of resources available that there weren't before in terms of child care providers and financial planners. There are people that can help you start your next chapter so it's not so bleak. And, you know, then you have your friends and your family. So if you are going through it, don't despair. This is just one chapter in the book of your life. It's all going to be good. And if you're kind of nervous to tell your partner you want to divorce them, just leave divorce. up on your computer when they walk in, they'll see. And then they'll get the hit. The Laura's business card on their pool.

Or my book next to your bed. I hope people tell me that that was there. Lots of subtle hints to drop. Okay, well, thank you again so much. This was wonderful and we love chatting with you. Yes, thank you so much. Thanks, guys. So nice to meet you.

Thanks for having me. Thanks. Bye. And you guys know where to find us. You can get merchandise and tickets to our shows and sign it for the newsletter and everything else at Girls Got to Eap Podcast.com. where Girls Gotta Eat Podcast on Instagram. I am Ash Hess on all social medias.

Raina is Raina.org and Girls underscore Gotta Eat on Twitter. And we'll see you next week. Have a good week, guys. Bye.