Girls Gotta Eat - Why Do We Sabotage Relationships?

Episode Date: January 23, 2023

It's an episode dedicated to something we all (or most of us) have done and aren't proud of – sabotaging a relationship. We discuss all the ways people sabotage relationships, the reasons we do it, and how to stop, plus we're sharing our experiences and the saboteur behavior our listeners opened up to us about. Before we get into the topic, we're breaking down the correlation between chicken wings and blowjobs and recapping another week in LA (spoiler alert: Rayna tripped again, Ashley had to walk out of a workout class). Enjoy! Follow us @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit our website for tour dates, merchandise, and more. Shop Vibes Only. Thank you to our partners this week: Hello Fresh: Go to hellofresh.com/gge21 and use code GGE21 for 21 free meals plus free shipping. Pretty Litter: Get 20% off your first Pretty Litter order at prettylitter.com/gge. Athletic Greens: Go to athleticgreens.com/gge to get a free 1-year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D + 5 free travel packs with your first purchase. OSEA: Get 10% off your first order sitewide with code GGE at oseamalibu.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I, like, went out with an ex of mine and, like, had drinks. And I remember sitting there being like, what am I do? What is the point of this? Yes, we've all been that moment. We're like, what am I doing? Right. Like, I know what I'm doing is bad. Yeah.

Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Episode two from L.A. I'm going to start counting again. I forgot. When did we stop counting? Ten episodes? I don't. Yeah. So episode number two in L.A.

Yes. We're so excited. I am, I guess I'm above the line. I thought it was going to be below the line because I had to walk up. out of yoga class today. I thought you were going to be below the line today, too. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it. Be honest, is this the furthest you've ever seen me read something away from myself? It's at like a 35 font. It's it like your parents' text size on their phone.

It really is so big. What's it like to be blind and know you can make it better? Afford. I have glass of eye care. Optometry. I have a stigmatism? And just not do it. What is it like to just raw dog life like that? So I don't know. Like when I look at a television screen, it looks blurry to me a little bit. But I don't realize that's blurry until I put my glasses on.

And then I'm like, oh, that's what it could look like. And you don't want to live at like a 10. You're like, I'm fine if everything's just blurry. Why you date ugly dudes. I don't date anybody ugly. You have. Everybody got fucked this year and previously is decently good looking. You're talking about that one guy.

But how do you know? You can't see them clearly. I'm up close and personal with that. We, people with contact lenses, you know, tell you that you're fucking ugly too. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But I just, I don't know how you do it because I went so many years like that. It's just like, I don't want to deal with it.

You know, like when I was so much younger, you're in college. You're like, I don't want to fucking deal with this. Do I have an eye doctor? You've got to call your mom. You know, you've got to go home to see your family doctor. Then you're like, I'm not a kid anymore. I've seen an adult doctor, you know. And so I just didn't deal with it for so long.

And then the second I got glasses contacts, I was like, this is, you can't go back. I don't know how you do it. I don't know. Every time I do watch something with glasses on, I am like, this is better. That's why you can't drive. I can't drive a car. Can't drive at night? I can't drive at night.

That is under any circumstance. I don't even like driving at night anymore. This is the oldest thing. It's like you get old. You just stop driving at night. I had to drive home the other night at this studio and I was like legitimately scared. I was like, am I going to ruin the company? Yeah.

All right. So what has been going on in our lives since we recorded? A couple days ago. Oh, I'd leave a yoga class today. I'm so sorry. It was too hot. I have been doing hot yoga for 10 years. Like, I understand it.

And I've done like the slow Bikram yoga, which is so hot, which is fine because you're moving really slowly. It's very slow movements. It's like too hot to do a fast flow. A Vinyasa flow class should not be at like a thousand degrees. I walked in there. It took my breath away. My water bottle was hot to the touch. The instructor leaned back against like the brick wall to kind of tell us how the class was going to go and goes, oh, ouch. He was like, the wall's really hot. I'm like, this is crazy. You guys are crazy. I get it. It's hot yoga.

I know what I'm signing up for, but it was like unnecessary and felt like unsafe. This is something I'm so not part of the culture about. It's like pets and yoga. Like you could tell me it was 150 degrees in there. or 80, and I'd be like, that sounds right. Like, until you tell me that you can't touch the water bottle and the instructor burned herself on the brick, I don't really understand what you're talking about. But yeah, that sounds like it shouldn't happen. And I... You'd explain me the dogs don't eat three times a three full meal a day.

Oh, yeah, I told me that dogs don't eat lunch. Most dogs, they all right? I was like, does... She was like, why did you ask that? I was asking you something about Azul, obviously. He eats twice a day. They don't have, like, they don't have, like, lunch. Five small meals a day.

I don't know if you do. If your dog eats lunch, that's fine. I don't know any dogs to have lunch. But it's just, I say this to say, I hate to walk out of a workout class. It feels rude. It's like you don't want someone walking out of your stand-up or something that you're teaching. It's fucking rude. So I wouldn't do it unless it was an extreme situation.

But I got out of there quick. I was like, I'm miserable. I'm uncomfortable. This is entirely too hot and I'm angry. You guys know, Ashley, we'll just leave any situation she doesn't like. And I sit there and I have an internal discussion about it until I faint. Ashley's like I'm not sad. Ashley walks across the beach and turns people's music off.

I will just sit there and be mad about it for an hour and talk about it to everyone. Text my parents. I won't turn it off. And I'm sitting there thinking, I go to myself before I walked out, I was like, I bet they have some weirdo owner who's like all weird and like needs it to be so hot and is like turn up to a thousand degrees. I don't care. Like I was in my head. I was like, I bet this is like, I just had a feeling of like someone has decided this to. make it this hot because this is not normal. And sure enough, I mean, I left the class and, like,

one of the other instructors who was taking the class and, like, was running the front desk, followed me into the locker room to make sure I was okay. Because that's actually the kind of thing, I assume people do kind of leave sometimes. Yeah, I mean, because it can't be safe all the time. We were 10 minutes in and people were already having to lay down in child's pose. I was like, this doesn't even make sense. Don't do the, it's not, we can't do the class. This shouldn't be like an extreme challenge. It's yoga in West Hollywood. So she follows me to the locker room and I was, I was kind. I'm not like an asshole, but I was like, yeah, it's so hot.

She's like, it is kind of hot today. I'm like, girl, I was like, kind of hot. This is, don't say temperature control is every day. This is so hot for Vinyasa flow. Like, this is crazy to me. And sure enough, she goes, the owner likes it really hot. I was like, I fucking knew it. Is he here today?

Ashley wants to talk to him. Ashley wants to talk to the manager. The other thing, another thing, I have two gift cards for this. fucking yoga studio because all you guys, which is very thoughtful and kind, everybody wanted to get me like L.A. themed gifts. Raina got me the best Christmas gift. You got me this really great Dodgers hat. It's embroidered with my initials. Then you got me a wax gift certificate and you got me a gift card to the yoga studio. And Matt and Steph got me. I have $250 worth worth the classes at this yoga studio. I'm not going back. I went home. I, right? I can't go back there.

No, I have to ask to talk to the manager. No, I have to evil them. I wrote the, I sent the cutest, like, Christmas gift for her. I put them in these envelopes and I was like, when you your pussy needs to be waxed and when you feel like you want to move your body and I like put each gift certificate into like a thing. Now I have to call them. We're going to call them. We'll have our assistant call them. Can you call them? Can you call them? What if you call them? What if you call them and you're like, um, I got this from my friend and she says it's too hot and I need my money back. So I also wanted to say a funny thing about your gift. Raina got me these five beautiful frames and she, I think this is very cute and funny, but you were like, for when you miss your

family. I'm like, Raina, I'm not a kid at camp. I said when you feel lonely. When I feel lonely, I need to look at a picture of my family. So you got me these beautiful frames and they were all, the five of them, heavy. I was like, this bitch expects me to ship. I didn't think about it. And you were like, I'll ship him for you. I'm like, no, you won't. You left the next day. You didn't take them. You were like, I'll do it. I'm like, what are you going to do with? You said you're going to put them in your forever home and you were going to bring them. So I was like off the hook. And then so you got me five and I brought three. I know. I'm very glad. So I'm really glad. Because the house is minimalist, bear. I love it. It's very like

moderate and feels like, but it's nice that I have these frames. So anyway, I just wanted to hype your Christmas gift again, but tell you that you need to call the yoga studio and get your job. I am going to call them. I'm not trying to let money on fire. Hi, my friend to your class stage, you almost fainted. Are you going to fix this? You're going to give my money back. This is giving the same energy as the, um, they touched my clit. Do we ever talk? The other place I got you a gift card for. Do we ever talk about this in the fucking? I don't know. I had doubled over on the street when you said Yeah, I go to this sugaring place and they have a few locations in New York and it's fine. I've been once here and it's fine.

Again, I don't really want to name them by name because I've had some like not great experiences. But I went to one in New York. I went to the one studio in New York and I just felt like she was super invasive. Like I've, again, this is a thing of like I know what I'm talking about. I've been getting sugared for again, like almost 10 years probably. And she was so in my vagina. She was so in my labia. Her thumb was on my clit.

I was like, this is insane. I would like it. You were describing it and low-key, I was like, I feel like I would enjoy this a little bit. And I felt, it wasn't like I felt assaulted. I wouldn't be very clear. But it was very invasive. I really didn't like it. You don't have to get in there and touch me that way to wax my pussy.

I'm just, you know, like, and I texted you as soon as I left. I was like, I really just had such a bad experience, yada, yada. I'm telling you when I was like, I'm going to email them. And you go, what did you say? I wonder at the subject lines. It's going to feel like the girl touched my clit. Yeah, right? I was like, what are you going to email them?

What's the subject line? She touched my clit. So I never did, but then I did have to email them about something else. That was a terrible situation with photos. This girl, I was, this is like Ashley's friend or Rainis friend. Ashley will like handle something in the moment. She'll email you if she doesn't like what you touched her clit. I will allow something to go on for so long at just sheer laziness.

But again, like, I think that if you have somebody that's working for you that's doing that terrible of a job, you need, like someone, I was, this woman, the way that she sugared me was horrifying. Like, I'm not going to get into all the details, but one of the things was she covered me in powder. I had powder. When I took a picture of the bed, fine, when I took a picture of the bed afterwards, there was a mountain of baby powder. You see the picture. The picture was crazy. And when she had to change out her sugar, like, like four times. It's, my pussy's not that hairy. And when she would go change it out, she would leave the sugar just on my pussy. It was just in my pussy hair.

And she'd be like, I got to change it out. I looked down. I was like, why is this ball of wax on my body? I've never had someone the three times I got waxed. I've never had them

have to change the sugar out alone. Four times. They usually have to change it once. Once. Change it once, like every once in a while, twice if I just haven't been in a while or whatever. But this was crazy.

She changed out so many times. Her method was terrible. It was the worst. I started to be like, am I getting pranked? Mm-hmm. And so I emailed them to let them know. Like, she's probably not ready. She's probably a trainee or something. You know, maybe she's not ready for the floor.

I will spend days texting everybody I know. I will be a keyboard warrior. I will tell everybody on earth. I will be texting everybody, photos. I'm talking shit. I'm leaving voice notes for people. about it. I will never email the company and just get my money back. Oh, well, I also wasn't asking for my money back. I was basically like, this is in my vagina. You know, like, no, I never emailed about

the clip. I'd let it go. But this was like, if someone comes in here for their first time and has this experience, they're not coming back. Like, my email was very like business owner to business owner. Like, you guys got to know what's going on in these rooms. You know what's funny. It's like, you'll email the sugaring place, but I will make a breast reduction surgeon give me two breast Yeah, right, you speak up for yourself? No, I'm saying I don't speak up for myself. I'm saying I, like, tuck her myself out telling everybody alive. And then I'm like, I don't care about this anymore until it's been days. I don't even know if I can email. But I will get, I will force a very expensive breast reduction surgery to give me a second one. That's the end-all be-all. Yeah. You get that second breast reduction. That equates to a million emails sent to a waxing salon. Yeah. And that was like a million waxes combined was that that cost was. So yeah, you know, I got my money's worth. Okay, well, what have you been doing? Farmer's Market? What's to a farmer's market today? Raina, I knew you did. It's like, I don't even need to watch your stories anymore. I just know what they're going to be.

And then everybody now is talking about you have an outdoor shower, but you're not in it. You just someone saw it in like the background of- Oh, it's in my backyard yesterday doing like an history store. I know it's been freezing. There's no way I can shower outside. It's been like, I can't relate. I'll be out there in the winter. That's what I want to be out there. No, you won't. I make my dad start the outdoor shower up when I get home. Also, I've talked to this in the podcast a lot. I don't even like indoor showering. I don't like the shower at all. Not a shower enthusiast.

Not a huge shower enthusiast. Outdoor bath. Would you? Yeah, I have a hot tub. I have a hot tub outside. Cut that. That is so embarrassing. I just said outdoor bath.

No, it's a hot tub. It's a thing. Yeah, I haven't used that either. And that's a hot thing. I'm trying to get this guy to come over and use it with me. We'll see. I have platonic feelings for him. But I would use it with him.

He was the one I said you can pull out of the recycling. I'm trying to. I've been trying to. He's having a sober January. Listen, I'm... Oh, my God. Thank you. I am sorry.

Listen, I support anybody doing dry January, dry February. Hold dry lifestyle. Do whatever you want. I'm just saying, for those of us who would like to get drunk with a guy they used to date and make bad decisions, this is a bad month for us. And I am with you in solidarity, ladies. You let me right into this. I wanted to talk about dry January. Oh, my God, really?

So I went to dinner with this guy. It wasn't like a date. Well, you know, who's to say? But I... I have been asking you if it's a date. I need to know if it's a date. I feel like if he was... was like, this is a date. I'd be like, oh, okay. All right, let me reframe this. Did you touch your

try to think it about it as a date? No. Okay. All right. That's how I always know. I don't think it. It was just like a friend of someone I knew in New York and we just went to dinner. But I don't know. It's like it had all the trappings of a date. He's cute. So it's not like a, it's one of those things of like could go either way, you know? Like it's not like a, oh my God, gross. He's so friend zone to me. And it's not like a, I like this guy. So we're just friends. And we have like a nice dinner. And we have like a nice But yeah, we sat down and he said he was doing dry January. I was like, again, live your truth. I just, I don't want to make any judgments about it. My life, my life, if I need to cut back on alcohol, I just kind of cut back, I moderate. I don't need to go cold turkey for a month. I don't really

understand what it does. I think it's just to show you can do it. It doesn't do anything for me to like go cold turkey on something. I would rather adjust. And we'll say this a billion times, do whatever you want through life. You feel great. Great. For me, I'd rather just adjust the habit long term. Yeah. I would just rather, I'm also like in my mid-thirreard. It's like I'm just not getting fucked up all the time. 100%, but this is the same thing where I feel about when people do juice cleanses and shit. It's like, this is crazy because it's actually not even good for you. You could just like do fruits and vegetables and lean meats and like whatever and not be starving.

I also like, I've switched natural wine, which you know that we love. And it's a little more expensive per bottle, but I don't have the hangover. And I have two glasses of wine. I'm fine. So I just found this thing that I love though, because if you guys are doing dry January or you don't drink or whatever, it is, you're cutting back. I found date ideas that don't involve alcohol. And this was on Amanda White's Instagram, who was our guest of the first episode of 2022. And her Instagram account is therapy for women and we love her. And I just want to like go out, go through a few of these.

I can post us on her Instagram too. Go out for dessert. I love that. A dessert day. I love a dessert date. I love a dessert date. I don't even like desserts that much. Let me talk me on a dessert date in Charleston. I thought it was so fun. Yeah. I love it. Was it like at a dessert bar? A dessert bar. Okay. Grab coffee, ice skating, bowling. Comedy show, live music. I personally think comedy is great to see sober. I prefer comedy sober. Like we, one night when I did a show at the stand, we were freaking out because something happened with their liquor license. And I was like, oh my God, what's going to happen? It was the best show of Francis and I ever had. It was just like, there's less distractions, whatever. You know me? I don't like to be like nodded out while I'm watching comedy. Yeah, like you want to stay alert. Also, I want to see what you laugh at. Yeah. And I judge you. And you can't be like the drunk person, the comedy show. Okay. Go to a concert. B. Y.O.O.B. Restaurant. What? Okay. Well, I got to, it's a place where like it's not encouraged to drink. Oh, right. Okay. Okay. Okay. Workout class, go for a hike, not that yoga class, but go for a hike, volunteer farmers. Farmers. Listen, I bought coffee from a guy in a Mercedes Sprinter Band this morning at my farmer's market.

He was hot as fuck. You're going to fuck someone at the farmer's market. It's giving hallmark. Yes. Yes. This guy was tall. He was hot. You've got to be tall to see through that window in the van.

Oh, yeah. How do you – can you order from a food truck? Are you tall enough? They'll yell down at me. You know what I can't do. I'm barely tall enough. I can't reach the – credit card machine.

I'm a full arm up trying to get there. And it's like, do you want to leave a tip? And I don't know what button I hit. Like 30%. I'm 5'10, like Cindy Crawford. And I'm shouting up there. I think about you sometimes when I'm at a food truck. What would Raina be doing?

This was specifically high. I don't know why. But the window they cut out of the Mercedes Sprinter van, I was like yelling up at the guy. Like, you're hot. Can I suck your dick? Okay. Arcade, mini golf, axe throwing ping pong.

I love a trivia night. Oh, Kate was saying that Soah House does this like so fun trivia night. We should go. What do you got to go? Take a class, art, cooking, crafting, et cetera, visit a museum, go to the movies, rock climbing, have a game night. I love that. I love that too. Go out a few drinks for that. Have a picnic, take a walk, go to the beach. We can post this, but I just, these are, none of these are that hot of takes. But I just think it's nice. And now as this episode comes out, we're getting close to the end of January. But whenever, if you're also people that don't drink or drink in moderation. I think a cooking date is so fun. It's not a first date. I'm not one of those people that's like, do a cooking. Do a cooking. activity for a first date. That's awkward. I don't need to be with you for like a whole cooking class for a first day. But people always ask me, I went to the Institute of Culinary Education in New York and they have a million like two-hour classes every night. Did you just like make pasta,

make pie, whatever the fuck? I think those are like really fun to do together. Yeah. I also, I mean, we say I like myself when I'm sober. So I'll go out to dinner and be sober. Yeah. Well, thanks for pulling that. Also, I am looking forward to having maybe a dry date in my outdoor bathtub. Are we rebranding? decoosies outdoor bathsups. You're not going to have a moment. I can feel it. So I wanted to ask you this, circling back to this dinner I went with this guy friend.

So we were just kind of talking about ramen, eating ramen. I would never choose ramen on a date. I'm pretty good with the chopsticks. I'm not like the best, but I'm good. And I can get in there and I know what I'm- Like you're not entering in competitions. Yeah. But, you know, like I feel like I'm pretty adept and I'm good with ramen situations.

Sure. But we were just saying that it's not the sexiest thing to have, you know, and same with, like, fa. That's, fuck, fa. No. Fuck that. Fuck that. But he, so we just got to talk about food. And I can't remember how exactly this played out.

But he said something about, like, we were saying would you judge somebody based on all they eat in certain ways? And we're going to do a whole episode on this, you guys. So this is just a little bit of a teaser. But, you know, if someone like can't use chopsticks, for example, or whatever. But he said a fist, a fork. Yeah. Well, that was, yeah, early on the podcast. We'll talk about how I sabotaged the relationship with that guy today, actually, because of that.

No, but he said when, like, someone eats chicken wings, he was like, you can just tell a lot about a person. I'm going to throw off. I'm like, so here's my theory. He said you can tell a lot about a person, by the way, they eat chicken wings that they just, like, leave so much of the chicken on there. Like, they don't get in there. What about people that put the whole thing in their mouth? Well, I, you're going to walk this back because I said, what, like how a girl sucks a dick? and he did not see that coming.

And I was like, I think there might be a correlation between eating wings and sucking dick. And a girl that's going to put that whole wing in her mouth and pull it out, she's not a girl. No me. She's going to suck the shit out of your dick. And here's the thing, though, I feel like a girl that's like, I don't do wings is not good at sucking dick, but I guess you would debunk that. I would debunk that. Okay, it's not wings. I don't like eating food that requires a lot of work.

I won't go to Korean barbecue. you, I don't want to cook my own food. I hate cracking crabs. Peel on shrimp is my nightmare. I just don't like to do a lot of work. So it's too much work for me. But it's not that I don't like the flavor and the taste. It's just too much work. I don't want to do it. I'm down. I mean, I'm just part of my culture. Like crab, picking crab. I know all the things I just had peeling shrimp. So, okay, but you don't really do chicken wings. You like, you won't do them. I don't like the bone in anything. I have the gristle skin, fat bone. I can smell it right now. I don't want it. You just got to have some wings sometimes. So anyway, so I was like, I feel like, he was like, well, what's you, what's, you're like, what do you feel like you're like?

I was like, I think that I'm a normal girl. Like, I think that I'm not like, I got to have wings every day. Like, I got to suck a dick every time I get into it with a guy. I do. But see, now I don't know if my theory holds up, but I just think I'm normal. I love chicken wings. I'm good at eating them. I don't leave a bunch of meat on the bone.

but I'm not putting it in my mouth and pulling it out because I'm not a bored star. It's a naughty girl. Suck a dick like a porn star. I think I give a good blowjob and I eat a wing like a normal person. I think somebody that is really dainty around a wing that leaves, is probably going to be dainty around the bed. I think it does track. I don't even attempt it. I'm not part of this culture.

I'm trying to figure this out. I'm trying to like use this theory to explain you. You're a little bit of an outlier, I think. I'm an outlier. I'm just full of contradiction. You know it would suck if you went out, literally, if a guy went out with a girl and she puts that wing in, she sucks it out. There's no meat on the bone and she can't suck. Here's the thing.

I think that somebody who can, like, suck that whole thing dry and, like, have beers. It's just, like, a cool laid-back check and she'll do some, like, naughty things in the bedroom. Like, she'll do anal. And if she doesn't, she's catfishing. I feel like you can't be that girl. You can't be both. And then go home and be prissy around a dick. Absolutely not.

No, I think your mouth has cash to check. You got to go home and suck that dick dry. If it's your inclination to stick that wing in, pull it out meatless, but you're, and you're on a date, just know that they might be thinking, or not. This could be all me. I might have come up with this. I don't know if anyone else thinks like this but me. I just, I think it tracks the one way, though. I think if somebody is going to suck everything off of a wing like that, they will suck your dick dry.

I think those things exactly equate. Okay, good. Yeah. I feel so validated. And I think there's probably just people. People like me. I know how to eat a wing. I'm not embarrassing to be around. You know, there might be a little bit of chicken on it, but it's not going to be like a whole big chunk. She might email the owner after, but she will not be not fun beer. She will not be around over there. And I think I've talked about this. My drunkest date ever was a wing date in college. Like I brought me to wing night and I was like chugged my beer. He said cheers. I chugged. Can you show up drunk? What dates did I? Yeah, I pregame the date. I had a full bottle wine to myself before he picked me up. I was. stumbling out the door, my friends were like, oh, fine. The best was in college when I would drink

in the shower because I thought the heat would make the alcohol, like, hit my body faster. I would be super fucked up. Shower drink? Yeah. God, those were the best. Those are the best. Way past college, I was still doing that. Like, in Dewey, like, I just, I think we have a, there's a picture of us. I think it was in summer of 2009 when we were in that house, the twin houses, when Corey was in that front house at the houses that come together. And there's a picture of all three of us in the shower. Like, drinks, three girls in a shout. Like, not a big one.

Just all really had to kind of hurry up. People friendship is so late. Okay, speaking of our friendship, this thing happened to me this week. I'm so glad you didn't see it. I was walking through a parking lot by myself. Raina, you tripped on the last episode. I'm talking about this. That lady, when that lady fell.

I've been tripping a lot this week. You tripping, right? How's that I'm tripping? Rayna's true. Okay, this is a new segment, though. Raina's Weekly Falls. That girl lied, okay? I don't believe that girl's story other than she described what I was wearing exactly.

No, listen, if she made up that trip just for our, like, content, like, it's kind of iconic. She was like, how can I beat this story up? This is not the first band that is, band audience member, that has emailed me and said they saw me tripping. Are you good? There's been one other person that was like, careful. I don't like this. I know.

Too much is riding on you. I know. So I was thinking when I was driving home the other day and I was like, I should go back. I remember my mom tripped after my brother's rehearsal dinner. She fell off that curb and then got mad. She fell out. She fell out. She fell out.

She fell out of this curve. She really did not want it. She was so drunk. I was like, are they going to break up? Pick to fight with my dad. She's sabotaged. I know. I was thinking they're going to break up.

Okay. I tripped so hard the other day. It was, like, violent. I've never tripped like this before, but I am so glad you weren't there because you could have never been my friend again. Okay? You were there with somebody else that works with us. I was so glad that the two of you weren't there to see this because I was looking for my car. I was the wrong parking lot.

I'm running around a solid 15 minutes, like hitting my lock button trying to find the car. I don't, I don't drive cars that often. I'm just not used to it. And the, what are those called that I tripped over? What is that? It's just like the parking spot thing, like the curb. It's like a giant. It breaks up the parking spot.

Yeah, it's like... Yeah, I know. It's just big. What's the name for that? I don't know. It's big. They're big. I mean, that's not like a little thing to trip over.

Like, if you don't see that coming, you're going to fall. I was like looking for the car and I just didn't look down. I tripped so hard over this thing. I threw my bag. My cell phone went flying. Oh, my God. Both of my knees shredded open. My pants ripped on both knees.

I was bleeding. I had like cuts on my elbows and my hands. I'm still, like, in a lot of pain. I'm, like, really sore. It was, like, violent. I was, like, do I still have my teeth? My fake teeth? Like, oh, my God, that's my, it's literally my biggest fear is to fall in, like, my teeth to

yes. So I bust my mouth. Yes. And I was, like, on the one hand, I was, like, so glad no one saw it. But then I didn't have me to, like, be like, you're okay. And I started, did you cry? I had, like, my eyes let up with tears. I was, like, limping.

I was like, I can't believe this. I can't find this fucking car. I'm in so much pain. You've been gone for, like, 20 minutes at this point. She's home already. I can't find this fucking truck. Narrator, we were not home. We were in the Hollywood Hills,

driving around. But I'm okay. It really was like, something like violent like that hasn't happened to me in a while where I was like something really bad could have happened to me. Oh my God.

Like I would have got in the car and cried. Oh my God. Yeah, my knees are pretty like bruised up. Your whole knee is a bruised. Yeah, it hurt really bad. I was like really sad. You weren't with me. This guy, there was like one guy.

He didn't try to see if I was okay. Really? I was really shocked. I flew my bag. It was so far. I'm down a pair of leggings. I only brought two. I'm okay, but that was like a really crazy thing,

but I was like, thank God, no one saw this. You never respect me again. I fell at Clemson, my senior year, and I do wish people were there to see it. It wasn't as bad as this as terms of painful, but my backpack flew over my head. Like, that's funny. Like, your backpack flies.

The bag, when your bag goes flying, that's like a different level. But I remember, you know, skinning both knees. I think I ripped like my jeans a little bit. And my senior year, I did this group project with these three guys, these three fucking nerds. No. And for the first time of my life, I wasn't the leader of the group project. And they thought I was dumb.

And I was like the dumb party girl because I was always like hungover and stuff like that. So even though I graduated with like a three nine, I was like a very smart college student. But they were like, we got it. Like these guys did all the work. It was like the first time of my life where I was like, this is fucking dope. And they just were like. I told you we went to work that day. It was like that.

Yeah. It was like that. It was like, they were like, we got it. So anyway, but I remember showing up to these three guys. And I was like, I'm sorry, I just, like, fell. And my pants were ripped. Like, I was all banged up. And I remember them being like, ugh.

And, like, didn't give a shit. Oh, really? Like, they were just, like, nerds that were mad. I was late to the group. Uh-huh. They were already carrying you on their back. They were like, we don't care what happens to her needs. I was like, sorry.

I was late. I fell. It sounds like a lie. You're like a lie. I fell. It sounds like a lie. You're right. It sounds like a lie.

Fell? You're like this dumb sorority girl. I'm sure she's lying. You can't walk, okay. Like, I'm literally bleeding. It's crazy. You hate yourself like that. That is the worst, though.

You want to cry, not even from the physical pain. There's, like, embarrassment. There's, like, a weird thing where you feel sorry for yourself, and you just, like, you want to just, like, cry. I was shaking so hard. I finally, like, found my car in the other parking lot. I was, like, the sigh of relief to just, like, put my stuff. I was carrying my computer.

I still, like, walk around for the 10 minutes to find his car. It was really upsetting. I'm never going back to the valley. Never. Never going back to the... Where are you shared? The valleys. This isn't a liar.

You guys, everything in L.A. is either clueless or The Hills to me, and we drove by Keoghty Studios today. When you saw that, I, like, lost it. This is a deep cut. We need to explain what we just said. People are like, what did they just say? In the Hills, Audrina, season one, works the desk. She's always a receptionist at Keote Studios.

That's where her fake job was. And we just drove up. I was like, Kootie Studios. I feel like star-struck. I know me, too. I keep looking around for Justin Bobby, because he looks as though he would live in Venice, you know? He is Venice. Wait, he's, um, he is Venice Boulevard.

He is Abbott-Kinney. Justin Bobby is Abbott-Kinney. No, Abit Knie is too nice for him. Justin Bobby is Venice Boulevard. Okay. That's great. Huh? Mm-hmm.

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I'm really excited for this topic today. And it's a heavier, deeper topic, but I really enjoyed mining information about this. Because we haven't done a topic about self-sabotage and sabotaging relationships. I think we peppered it in, but not like a whole episode. That's where we're doing now. But we posted some stuff on Instagram about how you've self-sabotaged, why you self-sabotaged. And I feel like in reading our listeners' responses, I had so much empathy. And I really felt like I understood why people do stuff a little bit more.

I was able to evaluate my own behavior and be like, oh, I've done a lot of this. We've all done it. And again, this was one of those times where it really tugged at my heartstrings that you guys share so much with us and really feel comfortable telling us these private things about yourself, your insecurities and, you know, breakups and things like that. So again, I feel like this brought me back to when we felt like this about the cheating episode where people just really were vulnerable with us and shared why they do these things. and a lot of it boils down to insecurity, self-esteem, and trauma and fears and different things like that. So as always, thank you guys for sharing with us. Yeah. I just, I was really so moved by it. And how many people think that they're like undeserving of a solid, healthy relationship or love and trauma that comes from your parents. And so I really enjoyed learning how to change these

behaviors also because you and I did so much like research. And I really enjoyed learning about it. And I looked at some of my own behaviors. I was like, oh, bet you do that. I just think we all have done things like this for various reasons. We're all a product of our upbringing and past relationships, whether it was your childhood, growing up with your parents or without your parents or your romantic relationships or even friendships. You're just all shaped by this. And I don't think that anyone can say they've never sabotaged a relationship.

And that's kind of what we're talking about today. I mean, of course, you can sabotage your career or your friendships or whatever it is, but we're kind of talking about romantic relationships. So I wanted to share our personal experiences. I have a few, but if you have anything comes to mind? Yeah, I mean, I have a lot. And as I was reading this, I was like, I've done different things. You know, some of these things I realized come from how I was raised.

A lot of things come from your parents. Other things is just an inability to communicate. A lot of people expressed to us, like, I didn't have to leave my partner. So I created all these situations that would leave me, essentially. I saw myself in that a lot where probably my last relationship, I just didn't know how to say, like I don't think this is right for us. I didn't know how to tell a person that like it's just a kind, nice person that like I'm just, I don't see this for the long haul. So I just nitpicked

constantly. And like I made huge fights about things that just like weren't, it wasn't conscious. I didn't say to myself like, pick a fight about the chili oil. But I just fucking did it. And like, it felt good because I was mad at you for one thing. And I could just like point to this other thing you did and cause a huge fight about that. And I made myself like a bad version of myself. And I don't even think I did it consciously. But I was just like, nitpicking constantly and picking fights until he was like, I'm not living like this, you know? So I recognize that in myself. And then the other thing I recognized was a lot of people said I didn't feel worthy of being loved.

I sort of feel like, and I grew up feeling I wasn't worthy of being liked. So I knew, I've always said this about my mom and I said in the episode I did about her. I knew that she loved me. I knew she cared about me. I know that I'm a nice person. I know that I'm kind. I know that I deserve love. But I didn't think that I was likable.

because she just never seemed like she liked me. She really liked my brother. And so it created this, like, deep fear in myself that, like, no one likes me. And I remember being in, like, social situations, especially in college because you're finally independent out in the world. And I would use all these, like, little pieces of evidence to, like, qualify that that was true. And so much of this is these lies you tell yourself about what you're like. And then you use these tiny little things as evidence to qualify that you're right about

those bad things about yourself. instead of using positive things to say, I'm not like that. So I would do that a lot in college, I think, with friendships, more than romantic relationships, but I didn't think I was likable. And we have this podcast. I think I'm likable and people like us. You think? But I have my whole life always been like, do people like me?

I know people love me and care about me, but they like me. It's really important to me that people think I'm like fun and witty and funny. Yes, this podcast serves as evidence as that. But that's been a fear of mine for a long time. The last thing that I saw that came up a lot and then I'm going for me was that somebody said that you use long distance relationships as a way to sabotage your own ability to have somebody in your life like day to day. And I don't go to therapy, but a therapist would probably touch on the fact that most of my relationships have been long distance and use that as evidence for me, maybe self-preserving a little bit. Yeah. I mean, it's tough because what we do for a living and we meet people.

You know what I mean? Being in New York is kind of tough. But yeah, there's certainly something to choosing relationships you know won't work out, like actively making those decisions. Oh, I do that too. Yeah, I do all the things you guys. Yeah, I mean, the main reason why I would sabotage a relationship is because I have to be in control. So the reason why so many people do is because they wanted to end on their terms. They want to be able to say, I did this, I caused this, and have it on themselves as opposed to you got rejected, you got dumped. Of course.

Someone like you. Someone didn't love you. And I hate that thought of like losing control. I like things to be on my terms. But I'm clearly am working on that. I mean, you need to be vulnerable and you need to put yourself in situations where someone could hurt you. And hopefully you find someone that doesn't hurt you and that you have a secure relationship

with. But I mean, sometimes it's just being immature and bratty and not wanting to have the conversation. You know, like I really said this early on when we first started the podcast. I was hooking up with Sky. He was so nice. He was a lot younger. The sex was great. But I just didn't see a future.

and I, that was a guy that held his fork, like, with his best. But I don't know. I just remember one night we went out and we went to Tope's birthday, my good friend, Tope, and everybody liked him there. He was just like, I don't know. It's like I got kind of drunk before. I got day drunk and then I was late. He was coming to pick me up.

I just was acting like an asshole. And then we go to this party and everybody liked him. And I was just like, I just had the ick. I don't know. I just knew in a weird way deep down. I was just going to blow it up that night. You know? Like, it was, I don't know if it was subconscious or like,

mid midway conscious. Like I kind of knew. Like you just said, you don't go into being like, I'm going to get wasted and be an asshole, but like you kind of know that's what's on the horizon. That's what's on the menu. Yeah. And so I just got really drunk. And I remember like kind of like picking a weird fight with him out of nowhere. It was just so lame, you know. And I remember the next day we were on Rob's roof and I sent him a text to apologize. Like I felt bad. And he was really so nice and cool. And like it happens. And he was 10 years younger than me. Like he gets it. He's around drunk girls all the time. You probably just didn't expect to be around a drunk older lady.

But it just, I knew why I was doing it. It was just knowing it was over and just blowing it up. And the other instance I think of in a more serious relationship was this weekend I had with my ex where we were going to a wedding. And in my head, I had it like all these expectations of this perfect weekend. We were staying in a really fancy hotel. I'd pay for the hotel. It was still like in this city that we were, we lived in.

But I wanted to like do a nice thing and have us being this like fancy hotel and have sex and do all the things. And I felt like I wanted to not test him, but like treat him like an adult in the relationship and be like, come pick me up and we'll go to the hotel. And he just like ran an errand before. I didn't think I had to be like, come pick me up at one. You know what I mean? Like I just was like, he gets it.

He knows what time the wedding is. He's an adult. I should be able to trust him to be an adult. I'm trying to work on that because I felt like sometimes. I didn't do that. And so sure enough, he just had to go, like, run this errand and he did not have time to pick me up. And I had to Uber to the hotel. Like, every, the day to me was like, I, I trusted you and you didn't come through for me again. You made this weird decision to go all the way uptown before you should have picked me up. Now I have to call an Uber and meet you at the

hotel. Now we're rushed. And it made me enraged. It made me see red. And I couldn't get past it. We fought the whole time. We were not. not okay. We did like break up. We broke up all the time and got back together. But like, it ruined the wedding. I mean, we were able to kind of have fun. But like we were fighting and like we're screaming at each other. This hotel room was just like a disaster. This is when I got into that robe. And he was like, you're getting something more comfortable to fight with me. And, you know, looking back, I'm like so many girls would just be like, so what? People are late. But it's like it was so much deeper than that because what it said to me was like,

like my fears were validated that I like couldn't trust this person to come through. for me and show up for me. And like a lot of that is readjusting my expectations. Like things are going to go wrong. You know, a big occasion. Like, you know, you put a lot of expectations on it. And things don't go perfectly. And I'm trying to always constantly working on that. Like, shit happens. You know, when you put a bunch of expectations on a special event, you might get disappointed. So I get it. I am a rational person. But that, like, to me, I had to ask myself later, like, why did I, quote unquote, sabotage that weekend? It was like because of the deeper meaning of knowing that this person, like, wasn't really right for me. And I couldn't just trust him to be the

kind of partner that just can pick me up on time for a wedding, you know? Of course. I mean, there was so many different ways that this, like, broke down into. And we'll talk about some different pockets. I mean, there were some people that said, you know, I don't feel like I deserve love. And that comes from trauma. And we'll talk about that. Then there are some people, a lot, a lot, a lot of people said, I didn't know how to end this relationship or I knew that there was an expiration date, or I knew that I found this really nice person. I couldn't even figure out why I didn't want to be with them. And so I just did all these things to ruin it. And that came up so much. And these really risky behaviors, the level of screaming, I think, is just like maybe you would have

stopped if you, like, respected this person or if this wasn't more evidence that, like, you probably shouldn't have been with them. But so many risky behaviors, a lot of cheating stuff, a lot of people, like, right up to the edge of cheating, flirting, texting an ex, doing stuff right in front of somebody that you know they're probably going to see. And a lot of this is just used to end a relationship you know you shouldn't be in, but like maybe there's no reason for it or maybe you can't tell the person the reason. Yeah. Like what the reasons that you're saying that like this person wasn't an adult and he couldn't just like deal with plans the right way and show up for you the right way and you're like, I created this situation because he like validated all those things.

That had like happened before. You know what I mean? It's like I took a chance with like some loose instructions and you know, it's just like, well, if I was late, you wouldn't go ballistic on me. I'm late. We're all late. You stay being late. You do. The cheating and risky behavior things right up to cheating was really interesting to me and people saying that I didn't know how to end it. I've seen a friend do this for a lot. She would just push it right up to the edge with her ex. Because I think she didn't know how to end this relationship. And she was like, this is a good person who ends a relationship like this. And she was flirting with other people, doing things that you would not want your partner to see you do, not sleeping with anybody. But all the things. things. And I started thinking, I did that with my ex-fiance. I just, I knew the relationship wasn't right, but I never would have ended it. And I never would have left because he was a nice person. He loved me. He supported me. Like, your ex. Nice person. Those people are hard to leave. Ashley made a face. No, nice person. But when I say, I was screaming in the hotel room. He was screaming louder. When I was engaged, I would have never ended the relationship. But a couple of weeks

before he left me, I, like, went out with an ex of mine and, like, had drinks. And I remember sitting there being like, what am I do? What is the point of this? Yes, we've all been that moment. We're like, what am I doing? Right. Like, I know what I'm doing is bad. Yeah. And I was pretty sure 99% he'd never find out. He wasn't going to go through my phone. Like, I just was like, I know this is a not nice thing to do, so I'm going to do it. And like, I was just sitting there, I was wearing my engagement ring. My ex was like, you had married a student. I was like, yeah. Who cares? Who cares? So I think that we do some self-sabotaging shifts just so that we don't have to have the conversation. Having those conversations is fucking hard.

You know? I mean, I think that so much of it is self-preservation and protecting yourself from getting hurt. I pulled this article from psychology today is that I just wanted to read. They did a study. They said participants gave five types of reasons as to why they sabotage their romantic relationships. Number one is fear, fear of getting hurt, having a broken heart, rejection, abandonment, also fear of commitment, betrayal, intimacy, failure, and loneliness. Number two, poor self-esteem and negative self-concept, feelings of inferiority. Three, trust difficulties. Sometimes these are caused by past betrayal. four high expectations. So I feel like this falls into me too where it's associated with perfectionist tendencies and having destined beliefs. You know, like this comes down to assessing your expectations

in a relationship. We talk about this all the time. Are they realistic? And five inadequate relationship skills due to maturity and experience, et cetera. Those cover all of those are pretty much all the reasons. And it says the last paragraph for this article, and we can link it for you guys. It says people sabotage their romantic relationships mainly to protect themselves. Nevertheless, the above research shows self-protective strategies often result in self-sabotage when driven by the desire to validate negative beliefs about oneself, not being worthy of love, expecting rejection and abandonment. And it's so much of a self-fulfilling prophecy, like if you tell yourself it won't work out, that they won't love you, that you're going to get dumped, that you're going to be

abandoned, that you're not good enough, that they're going to cheat or whatever it is, like it will happen. I mean, not all the time, but it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Like, you will manifest that when you will still lose the relationship. Right. Right. So, but then again, if your point was, at least it was on my terms, I get it. And I want to validate that, like, obsession with control. And like, at the end of the day, you get to tell yourself, well, I did this. I didn't get rejected. It was the number one response we got from our listeners. It came up over and over and over again in every article that I read. I wanted to be on my terms. It's better to leave somebody than be left. I would rather reject somebody before they reject me. But all you're sort of doing, I mean, I guess, yeah, maybe you dodge a bullet, but you are also running from. things that can make you really happy in the end. And I wrote down this paragraph too. So you were talking about like the reasons people do it. And this was a good summation of like how they do it. So sometimes people do things that undermine long-term romantic relationships like engaging in

behaviors that ultimately drew a breakup, often born out of fear of loss, romantic self-sabotage can involve blaming, picking fikes, giving the silent treatment, controlling or monitoring a partner's behavior, constantly seeking reassurance, clinginess, having impossibly high standards and leaving relationships before, they have a chance to develop. Okay, but I also want to circle back to you may be doing this because it's a bad person that makes you feel bad, you know? Like, I think that if you feel the need to put walls up when you meet somebody, you should recognize that and feel that. Like, if you want to visualize this, if you are thinking of somebody that you might be dating or in a relationship with or whatever, and your inclination is not to invite them in, but to guard your heart.

Like, let's talk about that. Because I think sometimes, again, it could always be the other person. This might not be your shit. This could be their shit. So, you know, I just made these notes myself. I just think the number one thing you have to do is recognize this and document it and analyze the shit out about yourself. I think some of this stuff can really run deep and be subconscious and needs therapy to really pull it out and understand it. But I think a lot of it too can just be pretty recognizable and easy to pinpoint and understand. Like, I feel like the proof of that is in our listeners that answered this. They're like, here's what I did and here's why I did it. I know why. I know what I'm doing, when I'm doing it, and I can tell you why. Again, not always. It can be very deep

in a need of therapy, but I just think this comes down to you understanding it so you can not try to do it again and knowing that if it is just the other person that is bringing out the insecurity on you. So I want to talk about that. I'm glad you brought that up. I think it is about like, it's so smart that you said, like, analyze this other person. Before you analyze your behavior, is this person doing something to make me behave like this? First step. like this, right? And one thing that came up over and over again was like, I'm testing my partner. I'm constantly testing them. And I'm seeing, like, I'm being clingy to see how they're going to deal with it. And I'm being self-deprecating to see how they're going to deal with it.

And I'm just, I'm testing the boundaries in a way because, like, this person makes me want to test the boundaries. Like, I was living with somebody my first boyfriend in New York. He just cheated on me all the time. I knew it. I couldn't prove it. But I was just, I was doing things constantly to test his love for me? And did he like care about me? Was he going to show up for me? was he going to make plans and stick to them? If I showed up at his work, was he going to be there? Like, I just was constantly testing this person, love me. And that is not a pattern of mine.

That is just that person. Like, I look at it. I'm just like, that person bred insecurity in me. No one ever has since. And so much of this is about recognizing your own attachment styles. Yeah, and that of the person that you're interested in or in a relationship with. Yeah. So if you are traditionally securely attached, and we've talked about this,

and they talk about in the book, also, a person who is, normally securely attached can become wildly anxiously attached with the right partner or the wrong partner. Yeah. Yeah. You rattled off a bunch of things earlier that are like negative in a relationship. And I saw this too. I was watching this TEDx talk. And this comes from another psychologist and researcher, John Gottman. But I always love to bring these up. You've heard of these. But the four horsemen of the apocalypse of an relationship, which are the primary behaviors that can lead to the end of relationship, criticism, defensiveness, contempt, and stonewalling. So it said when they did this study, people answered in similar ways, they exhibited one or more of those. And those are just always good

to keep in mind. We've heard a lot of the experts we've had on the show just say contempt. When you just, you can feel it when a couple is like having that with each other. And then, of course, the stonewalling and criticism and defensiveness. And so it just says people mainly obviously sabotage relationships to protect themselves. And the way out of this is to find safety with someone you love, but also like working on yourself because so much of it is self-esteem and insecurity. The TED Talk was saying that overall self-sabotors hold insecure views of themselves, others in relationships, whether it's from their past or whatever it is. So it's like those are things that we talk about on the podcast of dealing with your past trauma,

living a life that you're proud of and that you like and you're not placing all your value in your romantic relationship and all the things that we've kind of been, you know, preaching all these years. There's, so in walling is really interesting. It jogged my memory because a lot of people said, like, I changed my communication style. I just ignore them because I want to. For no reason. I'm not responding to text. I'm making plans with me impossible.

I don't call them back when I say that I'm going to. All those things that do breed contempt. And it's hard to, like, name it because it's hard to see your partner. Like, you didn't text me as much today as usually. But we always say you always know when your partner's communication style changes drastically. And I've done that. And then I've gaslit somebody when they've tried to pinpoint it, you know? And I, for better or worse, like my last partner, like, forced me to have these conversations

to use so much therapy because I'd be like, nothing's going on. He'd be like, I know you and something is going on. But we don't all partners like that. So, you know, sometimes you do things and then you gaslight the other person and thinking that they're crazy. And again, I didn't even mean to do it. You just do it sometimes by accident. Yeah.

But when you boil it down to the root of it, that's the wrong partner. You're just struggling to tell somebody like, I don't want to be with you. Or just it's that time in your relationship. I think, you know, I can't speak on having a long-term marriage. you know, and people go through rough patches. And of course, I think sometimes you're going to have like a little bit of contempt for someone that you've been married to forever. But as long it doesn't last forever, obviously.

But I was thinking, too, that a reason you also might start fights or instigate something is because you grew up in that type of environment where fighting and chaos and people being combative and screaming and yelling was normal. So you can almost be in a place where it feels. normal, but comfortable for you. And I found myself in a relationship like that where I was like, this is crazy. It's like crazy. Like I don't scream at people. Like what am I doing? Like this is embarrassing and it feels unnatural because I didn't grow up like that. And I never had a relationship like that until I had that relationship. So it was so out of the ordinary for me. And once I realized

the kind of environment this person grew up in, it was so ordinary for him, fighting and screaming and drama. So it's almost like people feel way more comfortable starting fights, picking fights when they grew up in an environment that wears a bunch of fighting. It's true. Some people have also just never had like a really positive, kind, easy relationships. They don't even know what that looks like. Yeah. So when you see it, you're like, what the fuck is this? Yeah. This guy gives me the ick. Yeah. It's boring. Ew. Yeah. Something that comes up a lot and is definitely bred from from trauma and you should talk to a therapist, of course, is this feeling that like everybody leaves me and feeling like I've been a victim of either a parent leaving me or all my past

partners leaving me. And so you bring the past into the present because the past always has an effect on the present and really not being able to let that go. And you and I can't speak to that as experts and people should certainly turn to therapists. But a lot of this comes from your parents and their trauma and feeling like, you know, a parent left me and I wasn't good enough, which is never the case and whoever you were, the parent would have left. This has nothing to do with you. Your parent was born and bred exactly who they were long before you came along. But a partner, you know, I'm proud that when I look back at like my most traumatic experience was my fiancé leaving me the day after my engagement party, I don't bring that into the future

relationships. I don't say to myself just because this last person did this, it will ever happen again. And it took me a lot of work and trust issues, of course, to say that to myself. But it's just true. Just because one person does something really shitty and fucked up does not mean the next person's going to do it. And it was hard for me to come to a place where I trusted the next person because I was like, how am I ever going to get engaged again? Is the next person going to leave me right before my engagement party? I think he was young. I think he had a lot of trauma. I think he had a lot of emotional issues. I understand a lot of reasons why he did that. That doesn't mean, anybody's ever going to do that to me again. And also, just because maybe all of your last relationships didn't

work out, that's just being human. That's why we date. Right. Why we date around. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, yeah, like some people marry their high school sweetheart, very few people. Other people date a fuck ton and then find somebody or don't. You know, that's what we're, what we're out here doing and dating, trying to find the person or whatever, maybe not, whatever you're into, a bunch of people. Totally. And just because somebody cheated on you in the past doesn't mean the next person's going to cheat on you.

The sins of the past person aren't necessarily the responsibilities of the next, you know, and that's like you and I talking about, you know, who you are is not your fault, but it is your responsibility. Like, my trust issues weren't my fault. That person leaving me like in that terrible was not my fault. But it was my responsibility to have some self. talk and not assume the next person is going to be just as terrible and put that on them. Absolutely. I think that happens a lot, though, these scars from past really. Absolutely.

I really think so much of this is obviously based in self-reflection, however you want to recognize your patterns and your reasons for doing things. I think journaling is great. Therapy is great. But I did write down three things that are not hot takes or simple things. And I may as well reference this TED Talk while I'm here. But this was Raquel Peel. This is a TEDx talk. why do we sabotage love? And she had a pretty traumatic upbringing story as well, and she talked about it. But I just made note of the three tips, she says. The first one is take a really good look at yourself and your behaviors, knowing are you someone

who needs a lot of reassurance? Do you get nervous when people get too close to you? Some people just, they think they're so undeserving of being loved or even being liked that gets a red flag when people like them. You know what I mean? You're like, oh, what's wrong with you? Well, we've talked about that with people with extreme avoidant attachment styles that like only...

Yes. And narcissists also, that like they seem like they're confident, but they're deeply insecure. And then when you love them, they like look down on you. Right. You're like, ew, what's wrong with you? Tip two, just think about what you expect from your partner. We already said that. Are your expectations realistic? And three, figure out how do you collaborate together and feel like a team? And I saw this in a lot of things that I read prepping for this episode. Just that team is so. Like, are we in the same team? I think that you and I get asked all the time about our relationship. And I know it's not romantic, but even recording the other day with Heather McDonald and like, how do we make this work? And it does feel like we're on the same team

with the same goals. And again, it's not a hot take, but I feel like I've been in relationships and I'm sure you too and anybody listening to this where you're not in the same team. You're like opposing teams. Yeah. I'm on this team and someone's got a win. We're not in this together. And again, I like to be a dork and visualize stuff sometimes. It's like, you know, the whole like garden your heart putting walls up all that stuff. But I think of this too. I'm like, picture of football game. Like, are you guys on the same team? Are you the quarterback and he's, like, on the O-line protecting you? Or are you playing against each other in the fucking Super Bowl to win it all?

You know? Like, are you in this together in a collaborative relationship? Uh-huh. Or are you battling each other, you know? You can feel that with couples. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes, like, yes.

Sometimes you're just like, this feels ick. Why are you, like, throwing jabs at each other in front of me? Yes. Like chucking grenades? Stop. Right. Because the point is that you. you are in a partnership where you're lifting each other up,

not trying to make yourself look better in comparison to the other person. Right. Also, if my partner looks bad, I look bad. I'm always trying to be on the same team, you know? I wonder if you saw this come up a lot because I read so many, we just prepped a lot for this episode. I really enjoyed it. Yeah. But I saw this thing come up over and over again, this phrase,

and I was like, what does that mean? I wrote a lot stuff down, but develop self-awareness, which echoes like that phrase develops self-awareness. I saw it over and over and over again. I was like, what does that mean? But it is, like you said, just realizing, like, what do I need? What kind of my own trauma am I bringing from this relationship? What is this person exacerbating in my personality?

Journaling regularly to avoid making rash decisions. So it always helps me to just write some down. And I've talked about this a lot. But I realize how silly a feeling is sometimes as I'm writing it out. Or how important it is. One way or the other, but it helps me to journal and try to understand where the behavior came from. Make lists of facts. So instead of constantly using all these back.

things as evidence to qualify all these bad things by yourself. Make lists of things that are good about yourself. And we've talked about this before. Like just because you think a thing that's terrible about yourself doesn't make it true. We tell ourselves lies all the time about ourselves. And then we cherry pick all these things that are happening around us to be like, oh yeah, well, I am terrible. And it's just like you should surround yourself with scenarios and people that make you feel better about yourself and make lists of why you are great. It sounds silly, but Ashley and I love a list. And know your strengths and embrace them and just find ways to love and accept your. yourself. And if you do find ways to love and accept yourself, I do think that you will be,

and that's easier said than done, of course, and a lot of people go to therapy their whole lives to try to like themselves, love themselves. But you will be less afraid of things happening to you and being alone if you like yourself. So when I'm in a relationship now, I'm just not, I'm not that afraid it's going to end that much. I don't have to test people's boundaries that much anymore. I don't have to test their love for me because if it ends, I'll be okay. Yeah, because I'm proud of my life and I like myself. Absolutely. That should be the end goal. I mean, It still is going to hurt. You still get upset.

You still have a broken heart. But I think a great episode would be how to be alone with Lane Moore that we had like last year around this time. That's just a great episode and her books are great. And you guys should follow Lane Moore. But in terms of that, I think it's just a great resource. And also this just jogged my memory when you said List. I saw this video. It was Jay Shetty and Matthew Hussey, who Matthew Hussey's been on our show twice.

We're recording with Jay coming up. We keep teasing this, but it's coming next week. Next week. And Jay asked Matthew Hussey, what's the best piece of relationship advice you could give or that you've ever gotten? Or what is it? What's your top piece of relationship advice? Matthew Hussey said, make a list of what you want in a partner and then become that person. And I was like, how do I become a 6-5 dude with a big dick and a motorcycle and two tattoos leaves?

Because I've made my list and it has tattoos. motorcycle. Lots of money. I got the money. No, I was just... You're almost six-five. You're closer to it than I am. I do appreciate this sentiment.

Like, and it goes back to the expectations, you know? Why don't we just go through some of our listener submissions just to see if there's anything we didn't talk about? I feel like we covered most of like the big picture. But we asked ways you sabotaged a relationship. So I'm just seeing if anything, nitpick at everything, of course, you had said that earlier. And then this stuff with the edge. You said that came up a lot. Or like someone else, just...

It came up at a time I would like flirt in front of him with other people. Or I would like send messages. You know what came up a lot if we did not talk about? Was I went through their phone. I went through their phone as a way to make myself look less trustworthy. And also to just mind stuff I'm not going to like. You know, like you, it would be hard to go through anybody's phone and find nothing. We always say that.

You're going to find something. You don't like. Some of these are... Thank you guys for admitting this stuff. I mean, just being impossibly stubborn, withheld sex, took them for granted, never said thank you. If you find yourself doing that on purpose, like something is going on in this relationship. I don't want to say that it's doomed because I don't know what's going on in your relationship. And again, long-term relationships, marriages, they ebb and flow.

But when you find yourself doing this, you've got to figure out why drank way too much. We talked about the love languages in the love languages episode. I did this because I felt like he never said anything nice to me. And he was never like really like a big cheerleader for me. so I withheld kindness from him. Right. He had like big successes. Which, what are we talking about?

Different teams. Yeah. Yeah. They're not in the same team anymore. Blue his cousin. Cousins came up a lot. A lot. One blew his favorite cousin was one of them.

I love it because it's like brothers too far. Like brothers too mean, you're going cousin. And they're like, who's his favorite cousin? Yeah, favorite cousin. Ask questions I knew I didn't want the answer to. Sometimes there's things like, how many people have you slept with? Tell me all of them. You know you're doing it.

Yeah. I don't want the answer to that. And if I'm really trying to fuck with you all, I'll ask that question, you know? Died my hair pink so that him and his family would hate it. Oh, my God. Asked if they were mad at me 100 times until they actually were. I mean, it's all toxic, but it's like funny.

You know you're being like annoying or stubborn. That's so funny. This came up choosing older, emotionally avoidant men or fling, so I didn't risk becoming serious in the first place. Also, that's similar to choosing long-distance relationships. That does feel a little different, me. That's just sort of like not being ready to be loved rather than like self-sabotaged. I mean, it's all bad. But that's a good call too. I mean, some of this could just be and we can

get into the reasons, just you're not ready. You know you don't want a long-term relationship. So you're picking partners that you're not going to have that with or people that are just so whack for whatever reason. So whack. One thing that really surprising I didn't think of made huge life decisions without discussing them first. So I volunteered for deployment, took a job in another city. A couple people said that. Like, you're doing things and they're like, what's the problem? Yeah. I just was taking a job. You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't know why people do that. But, you know, when you're not involving, it's like goes back to being a team. We're not involving them in the process. You're not the same. It's probably a reason. Yeah. So some of the reasons, again,

you guys really opened up to us with this. Fear of Abandonment. I shut down before I get hurt, forced them to break up with me. So I don't have to. That's interesting because it's like that's kind of conversely, but you can still say I did this, you know, because that's kind of conversely, like, I wouldn't be the one to end this, but you can always look back on it and say, but I did this so they would break up with me. You know, it's all fucked up. You all, because you hold the power, you don't have to do the bad guy. You don't have to have the conversation. It's just like, I'm going to let you break up with me. Yeah. Happy you're being alone. So I ended a certain time period. I can't let someone get too close. That does, if you feel like you can't let someone get too

close, that really is probably pretty deep and just deserves going to therapy to figure out why. Because it makes me really sad. Like someone that says that, like, I could cry. If that's the way you are in all relationships. If you, if you were just like, I've been burned too many times by dudes, so I don't let them get too close, that's one thing. But if you really feel like you can't let people in, you know, that probably comes from some trauma. I think it comes from a lot of trauma. And listen, loving somebody being a relationship, to really love somebody, you have to vacate control, right? So much this is about needing to be in control. When you really love it, anything, you're not fully in control.

When you love your pet, you're not fully in control. Your pet's going to die someday, but you let yourself do that. You know, so it's hard because you can't control the actions of another person. But look at all the great stuff that you get when you finally do, drop those walls and drop that control. And I guess you could spend your whole life protecting yourself from hurt and being left, being broken up with being cheated on. But I don't know.

What do you have in the end? Right. I look at all these, quote, quote, bad things of having to be in relationships and breakups, but, like, the worst breakup I ever went through, everything is. good came from it. So, I mean, you might be afraid to be hurt and protect yourself, but like, what do you really gain from it except for being alone and not feeling anything? Yeah, everybody's been dumped, everybody's been rejected. Not everybody's had their heartbroken, but it will happen if you let your walls down. But eventually, the goal is that you will

find someone that feels like home and makes you feel secure, and none of this will matter. So, but to achieve that, you have to be vulnerable and open yourself. up as corny as hell. But it is true. Every time I've done it, even if the end result was that it ended, which I'm not in relationship. So if that was the end result of all my relationships, I don't regret any of them. I'm happy for anything that made me happy for a time period, even if it in the end caused

me pain. I grew from it. I learned from it. I had great sex. I went cool places. I met cool people. I made friends for those people. And I am who I am because of like knowing those people, dating those people.

So I feel happy to have those experiences, even if you're not. if they ended poorly? Yeah, and I think that most people go through at least one tragic heartbreak, rip your heart out, crying on the floor, you know, like can't get up, like feel like you're going to die. And so once that happens once, you're kind of just like, whof, got that over with. I know it can happen more than once. But I always hear a guy friend of mine say that. He went through a terrible breakup. And he was like, ever since then, I just felt like it can never be that bad again. You know, I went through a terrible breakup. You went through a terrible breakup. You went through a terrible breakup. Like, I just have this thing. I'm like, I just don't think it's going to be that

bad again. I think I, like, got through it and found the light on the other side. So if you're avoiding that, just let it happen. You've got to get fucked up. Everybody's got to get real fucked up at least once. So if you're like avoiding it, you're like, I don't, I've seen my friends go through this. I don't want to go through that. I don't want to be crying on the floor. Just do it. Ray and I would not have this podcast. We would not have this career. We would not. of this career without my bad breakup and someone I was super in love with and yours. Like, it's just, you got to do it. Also, it's never as bad as you think it's going to be.

Really? Yeah. Because when you come out of it in the end, it's fine. Right. Yes, you will survive. Oh, yeah, it's bad. Sorry, in the moment, yeah. Yeah, in the moment, it's pretty bad.

Of course, than you ever put a thought. You stop eating. You cry a lot. Yeah, it's actually, it's worse than you think it's going to be. But Emily Fedner, who was on our show last year, she is like this perfect example of somebody he used to say to me, like, constantly, if my ex and I, like, he's our ex now, if him and I ever break up, if he ever leaves me, I will be in a mental institution. Like, she used to tell me that constantly. Like, I will not survive it. I will never get past it. Like, nobody was

more assured that they would never get over it. And I have never seen anybody get out of a relationship and just thrive more. She's fine. She was not fine for a while. And she handled it, like everybody else in the world. So even if you think it's going to be the worst thing in the world, which it was for me too. I didn't die. I'm still here. Killing it. He's not. I'd like to... All right. Are we doing this episode? Do we have anything else? No, I'm like, I just, I can't thank you guys enough. This really was just really eye-opening and vulnerable and you guys just submit so much to us, like Ashley said, and it's an honor to just be able to see into your lives. And yeah, I learned a lot from this episode. And we appreciate your submissions.

Yes. And you guys are on the right track if you recognize this stuff in the first place and you're aware of it and what you're doing and why. And so you're on the right track to fixing it. You'll probably slip up. I'm probably going to do some dumb shit like this still. Yeah. You're never really out of it. No, I'm kidding. I don't know. Who knows? Who's to say? But no, it's just, it's really, you're in the right place. You know, if you can sit here and say, I've never done that. I don't, I can't relate to that. Then you're far behind the people that realize what they're doing and why they're doing it. You're probably doing it. You're just not self-aware. Well, thanks, guys. Yes. Thank you guys. Hope you enjoy the

episode and you can find us at girls got to eat.com, get tickets to the shows and all the episodes are on there, all of our partners, and Girls Got Eat Podcasts on Instagram. I am Ash Hess. Raina is reina.org. Vibesonly.com. Get ready for that butt plug. Get excited. Get your randle ready. Get the grundle bundle. And vibes only on Instagram as well. Girls underscore Got to Eat on Twitter and YouTube. Subscribe, share, review the podcast, leave a rating. I mean, what are you guys feeling your heart? Just do one thing. Yes.

And we'll see you next week. Have a great week, guys.