Girls Gotta Eat - Why is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing Now?

Episode Date: November 24, 2025

We are unpacking the Vogue article heard 'round the world that posed the question "Is having a boyfriend embarrassing now?" We discuss what prompted a question like this and why the conversation blew up, the cultural shift in relationship dynamics, our thoughts on whether boyfriends are in fact embarrassing, the response to the article (both good and bad, and from both men and women), and more. We also rank the worst fictional boyfriends of all time, from Friends to Sex and the City to Disney. And before we get into the topic, Rayna updates us on her comedy journey and Ashley discusses her prenup. Enjoy! Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for more. Thank you to our partners this week: Lola Blankets: Get 40% off your entire order at lolablankets.com with code GGE. Rocket Money: Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster at https://rocketmoney.com/gge. Bilt: Get points by paying rent at https://joinbilt.com/gge. Saks Fifth Avenue: Make shopping easier this season at https://Saks.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So today we're talking about if having a boyfriend is embarrassing. And neither of us have them. So we are not embarrassing. This podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi guys. Hi guys. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Welcome back.

Happy Thanksgiving week. It's happening. It's our favorite. First. You haven't brought it up. Didn't I bring? I brought it up last week. You did not.

I made a lot to talk about last week. Okay. It was a documentary last week. Oh, at the end of next week's episode, I bring it up. Okay, yes. Don't get ahead of yourself. And probably the beginning of next week's episode, you'll bring it up. Definitely.

And every episode after. Yeah. It is. It's Thanksgiving week. It's just my favorite holiday. Food. I'm so excited. We have fun holiday plans.

I'm just, I'm very excited. What are you doing? I'm going to London. Okay. I'm going to London to see the baby. I'm so excited. It was just his first birthday, so I haven't bought him anything, but I probably will. I might go to Paris for the night.

I'm not getting good weather this year. Last year. at amazing weather. But I'm just really excited. It's a long-ass trip, but I'm excited. A few people are in Paris right now. Who's in Paris? Jeremy.

But I think someone else, I just, I am dying to go to Paris for Christmas. Like, you want to come now? I also have a child's birthday. As we record, I will be in Delaware, but I'm leaving like the Saturday before Thanksgiving, push my flight up a day because Matt decided to do the both boys birthdays. They're close. in their birthdays and they obviously get celebrated on the actual day, but they do joint birthdays now.

I can't wait. Because everybody wants to come and bring gifts or whatever. Until they can remember stuff. Yeah. Jay is locked in. She is so smart. It's crazy. So the birthday will be the Sunday before Thanksgiving,

like a joint party for both of them. So I had to make it for that. And then I'll be with my family through the week, through Thanksgiving Day, and then Friday I'm going to go to Boston and be with Shishong. I feel so free. I feel so free. It has been so, it's been a real mouthful the last year, your fiance.

It's a mental gymnastics. It's been a lot. And you pause every time you do it. It's really nice. Poor Anna. She's like, what are we doing this week? You're going to be with your in-laws. Yes.

So they're going to hold Thanksgiving a day for me, which is what we did for him last year. And so Friday and then we'll be there for the weekend. And I haven't been to Boston with the exception of the last show on my tour. And I really miss it. We're going to stay in Seaport. And I just miss being in Boston. I loved it so much. I spend so much time there.

I know. I love it too. When I was just winter. Just winter in general, I miss. Yes. Yeah, it's exactly being on the East Coast for winter. So see you guys around these parts. I'm going to be those parts too.

I'm going to Pittsburgh. Lorraine had to want up me. After London and Paris, she's like, by the way. Oh, you got Boston. I got Pittsburgh. Well, I just, my dad is not coming to London this year for Thanksgiving. And I just, my parents are getting older and I want to like take time to be with them. And listen, I would rather spend more time in Paris.

But I am in a little. to fly back. We're going to go to a Steelers game. They're playing the Buffalo Bales. So I'm just very excited. And then we'll meet back here to keep recording the podcast. Yeah. I'm really thankful. You know, and I did just want to say, we recorded this episode last week. We recorded our documentary last week. We dropped it last week. It was the most work. It's the longest episode we've had in years. I think one time Matthew Hussey episode was a couple hours. Andrew Huberman, we couldn't get that guy shut up. That guy was like, I'm not me to let you interrupt me.

Andrew Huberman was like, is this not Joe Rogan's three-hour block? And Anna, our editor, put so much time into it. There's these assets and videos. We did a couple of pickups. I just was so perfectionist and so neurotic about it. It was something so important to me, and I wanted to get everything in. And of course, I didn't get this in and that in. But I just wanted to also thank our audience for all the support and the love

and nothing but incredible comments, at least that I'll ever see front facing. I'm not in the back end of the internet looking at what people are saying. I would never. Those don't reach me, just so you know. Keep trying. Along the way. I think that was the one thing I left out is I always want to thank our audience just for their love and support. And we talked about this. And we'll talk about a new venture.

We'll talk about it. A thing you got going on. And you were just, we were talking about how it will be received. And I'm like, people love us. Like our, some don't. And, you know, the people like, what do they say? Your biggest fans or your biggest haters, whatever. That's on what we're talking about. People want the best for us. They want to see us happy and thriving and in love. or succeeding at something. And so again, just thank you guys always for the support. We're really thankful and we thank you every year around this time and just I want to drive it home. Well, thank you for you guys and thank you to you. And this has been, we'll talk about it more at the Christmas episode. We do a big year roundup and we do resolutions for next year. But yeah, this has been like a really great year.

Mostly for you. Well, it's been. I've had a great year too. It's been a shit show the year in like the state of the world. But yeah, it's been a lot. and 2026 is going to be right as year. But listen, we're not going to get ahead of ourselves. We all have to stop cooking for 2026.

Oh, she's flutter cook. Doing big things. You're going to come. All right, we're going to thank our partners, and we're going to get into it. Thank you to Lola Blankets. Get 40% off your entire order at Lolablankets.com with code GGE and Rocket Money.

Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster at rocketmoney.com slash GGE. And thank you to Bill. Get points by paying rent at joinbill.com slash GGE. And thank you to Sacks Fifth Avenue. Make shopping easier this season at Sackswith Avenue or at sacks.com.

Okay. Okay. A few announcements. Yeah. So our biggest sale of the year for Vives Only, our sexual wellness business is this year. Is this week? Leave it.

Our big sale to year. It's this year, guys. It's this year, you guys. You can't even believe it. We want you guys to go fuck yourselves. Yes, go fuck yourself. We have an amazing line of vibrators, couples, toys.

things you can use solo. We have handcuffs. We have loo. We have so many fun things on the site. So our biggest sale of the year is this year. And email subscribers get early access. So if you go to Vibesonly.com, all you have to do sign up for the email list, there'll be a pop up. And that'll get you two days early access to our biggest sale of the year. And then we'll continue to do sale throughout the weekend. So Vibesolay.com, get your stocking stuffers, stuff yourself, get stuff for your friends, white elephant, all the things. The pillow. Get that pillow. And you know what I was looking last night at some of our products and I like our holiday theme. I like the green pillow, which was awesome my wedding color, green velvet with the burgundy scarlet. That's my pairing. If you guys

want to know. Do we, no, we don't sell that as a bundle, but I like it. Yeah, maybe we should. Yeah. We'll red and green. Yeah. So suction toy is the, is the scarlet, our new mini suction toy and the sex pillow. You just elevate your sex life. Pepper. Patti blow gel is back. Yeah. It's my personal favorite. Yes. Our best sellers, the peppermint paddy and the sugar-free blow gel, so you can up your BJ game. I think I might try to have that be more of my sweet treat because I'm trying to cut back a little bit on desserts. Okay.

And so that'll just suck dick instead. Oh, that's so nice. Yeah. Now that you're married, you can blowjobs? You have to do that anymore. That's why I start my blowjob era in marriage. You got to do something. We had sex in the couch last of this weekend.

Oh, my God. It was pretty hot. Which part of it? So I don't sit there. I know, I know. I was like, poor Zol. We had some margaritas. We were out with some friends, and we came home and just got a little.

We haven't fucked on the couch in a long time. Yeah, couch sex is great. Now you guys are married. You just fuck everywhere. People, our audience did say that getting married made them hornier. A hundred percent. We talked about it on the podcast, and then I would even ask at my shows, I would talk to married couples in the audience, and they really reiterated.

They weren't just doing it for the bit. They were like, yeah, it's hot to be locked down by the government. It's hot to be married. Okay. Do you want to talk? Yeah. What's been going on with you? So, you know, a lot of people messaged me, and I was posting a lot when I was in New York last week about doing shows at this comedy club in New York, which is like your longtime club, the stand. And I was doing shows.

I collabed to post with them. And a lot of our audience came, and they were so supportive and wonderful. So thank you guys if you came. But on the post that I collabed, I got a lot of people being like, wait, do you do stand-up yet? And what is this? And is this a big announcement? You guys were just, like, so wonderful. So it was a little bit of a jump stuff.

scared? Yeah, without explaining it. If you had a flaunt, teased anything, all of a sudden, here she is everybody. Every night of the week. Every night of the week. So I did that because the club asked you to promote it. And obviously, I would never do anything for my life ever without explaining it to you guys. But the club was like, please promote this, put ticket sales up.

So I was like, great. So, I mean, obviously you've been on tour all year, and I haven't, and I'm so inspired by what you've done, and, you know, I miss our audience, and I miss seeing them at shows. And I just started writing my musings about dating in general. And, you know, I just, I got my heart pretty shattered at the end of last year, and I was really depressed. And it was probably one of the lowest times in my life. And I spent

the year just dating and going on matchmaker dates and trying to date other friends of ours and calling up exes from the past and all kinds of stuff. And I just, I started writing about it. And I really enjoyed it. I tried to date this girl. I just, I just started writing about it. And I was like, I think I have some really solid comedy hour content. And I was just like, you know, I want to see how this feels. I want to see how it feels to get on a stage by myself without all the stuff. You know, I've been a performer for so many years. I've performed with you for seven years, hundreds of shows for thousands of people,

probably a million people. And I always thought, like, without all of that, without the dancers and the strippers and the cryout, the T-shirt guns, and you and all of that, like, what does it feel like? Just me and a mic. and it just felt really good and it felt comfortable. And I have so many people around me that I can look up to that are amazing performers and so many good friends and people that have been supportive and given me great device like you, of course.

And I've loved watching you just get better and better and better every year and succeed. And it just felt really nice. It felt good. And I'm excited to do something with the hour, which I'll be announcing soon. So I'm very excited for 2026 and what I'm going to be doing. And it was just, it was nice even to perform for not. just our audience, probably like 20% of the audience was our audience and just make people laugh and talk about things just about current dating culture and really bad behavior these days and

make light of it. And I had like a pretty disappointing situation with a friend that I slept with and to write about it and get on stage and perform and just make fun of it felt so good. And so it's just it's exciting and I loved it. And thank you guys if you came out. I'm going to do more of it in December and then I'll make an announcement about some stuff. You look like you want to say something. No, I just I. I am really proud of you. You have always been on stage and telling stories and making people laugh and writing out sets and jokes and doing comedy in that way and, you know, workshopping stuff and punching

it up and taking it seriously. And you went out with me on my tour and did a couple dates. And you never appeared to be like nervous. You know, I'm sure that you were, but you never really let on. It was just like, this is what I do. I've been doing this. And you're such a natural and crowd work. Like you said something to me the other day that.

you are crowdworking. It's so funny. Like I was like, oh, you've never asked that at our shows. And it was like so funny, like the way you engage in audience and you're really great at it. And I think anyone who's ever been to a show knows that. So it seems natural. And, you know, we talk a lot about what a stand-up comedian or just a solo performer's journey looks like.

And, you know, your path has been different and you're going to do this thing. And you have people who love you and want to come. see you and I think you're trying to strike the balance of like how much is like you got to know the girl's got to eat lore or can you perform for people coming off the street and I think that funny is funny and you're funny and relatable and I'm excited to see more of it I've only seen a little bit and for everyone else to see it too well thanks for saying that it means a lot and I think people are like I don't know you're doing stand-up it's like well I'm not I don't I've never considered myself a stand-up like you it's not the same thing I haven't like you gone out and grinded it out

five nights a week, you know, and doing all these sets. But I am a performer and I've written so much. And nothing makes me feel less scared than me in front of our audience. Like, I know the hard part is now. I know the hard part is like practicing this and being in front of audiences that I don't know. And like I feel emotional thinking like the easiest thing in the world is standing up in front of our audience because they're just, they're so loving and wonderful. And they just want to hype you and show up and post about you.

And I like walked out of one of the shows the other night and this girl was like waiting for me. She was like, right now, I love the set. Can I just punch one joke up for you? Oh. And she gave me a really funny tag. I mean, I love that. She waited for me outside to like punch it up. It was very funny.

And I was just like, that's, that will be the easiest thing in the world is our audience. I try to think if that's ever happened to me. I always love when you people, you go offstage and someone's like, can I give you a tag? And it's like, it's like, it. I'm like, yeah, you can. And sometimes I'm like, brilliant. It's in. And other times I'm like.

I'm offended. I'm offended. You thought I would say those words. This security guard. There's like a hot security guard. He was like big and bald and he was like looking at her and I thanked her and he like watched the interaction. He was like, you're just like cool with that? I was like, yeah, I'm very cool with it.

That was very funny. I watched comedy and I'm like screaming like, why would you not say this thing that feels so obvious? Like there's a thing in my set and it'll be in the special that I can't believe I missed. And we were in Denver and Andrew Collin was like, how do you not say this thing? I would have put money on that line coming next. And I was like, you're right. It's going in next 10 minutes.

Show two. You know, I don't want to know it from everybody. But like, I do think that some people. Yeah, don't, don't, don't, yeah, don't, don't, but it is really, like, flattering when you get off stage and somebody who, like, knows comedy. Like, that was great, but this can be better. And you're like, that's mine now. Yeah, it depends.

It depends. If it's you or Andrew Collin or that girl. Yeah, exactly. Very few men I want it from. Yeah. Just Andrew. Well, you guys watch this space. Stay tuned. I'm very excited.

Thank you guys for your support and we'll keep you abreast of this developing situation. And, you know, if anything, it kicks off anything, I'll be there. To kick it off. To kick it off. Not every time. She's got other people to do that. It's going to be so good. He's going to be there also for, you know, if we kick it off.

It's not Andrew Collin. No, I just, it's somebody that you can sleep with. Can? Yeah. Raina. I'm not gonna. I can't. Okay.

They can. They can. You guys can. You, not the plural. Not me. Not you, like in general, me. Other people. Okay.

Anyways. Watch this space. Watch this face. All right. Well, just a little reminder. We will not have the snack this week, but we hope you guys have just the best Thanksgiving. Please, dear God, tag me in all of your beige plates. I don't think Ashley cares as much as I do.

But you can tag her a little. Well, Raina likes a plate of beige carbs. If you're new around here, it's one of her catchphrases since 2018. It's my king. And it's her king. I like a colorful plate and I like fresh cranberries. So if you are more Raina's friends and you like the canned cranberry with the ridge on it,

ribbed for Raina's pleasure or the fresh cranberries. And every once in a while, we'll get a plate with both. I like some color. I like a little cranberry to color it up. If there's a green bean on there, if there's a fresh green bean, a vibrant green bean, get out of here. Well, guess what I get to have? What do you have it? Indian Thanksgiving. What do they do for Thanksgiving?

Last year he sent a plate, I think. Yes. So I will get two. I'll get mine and then I'll get Indian. They do some traditional stuff, but it's a nice mix. That's a hot plate. You are lucky. Yeah, I feel so lucky. I love Indian food so much. It's just like, really. I mean, some of it is just hot and mushy. Not all of it. I'm not trying to insult Indian cuisine. It's incredibly complex. I'm not comparing it to green meat casserole. But it's totally. It's just comfort food. Hot stews.

Yeah. Hot and goshi. Okay. I think that's a lyric from WAP. I think about WAP a lot. I think about that that's a song. I mean, like,

seriously, like, we don't talk about it enough that there was a song called Wet-Ass Pussy. And we just, like, went with that. And we were like, this is it.

This is an anthem. Well, the president is giving blow jobs to other presidents these days. It's crazy times. No, I'm saying, like, iconic song. We haven't had one. I guess my neck, my back, and then there was just such a,

so many years without another anthem. The thong song? No, not. That doesn't compare. It's safe for children. The thong song came on at your wedding. No, no song has ever hit harder. People hit the ground. People were going crazy. So Caleb, my best guy from high school, I mentioned he lives in Prague and he came. We loved Cisco in high school. His solo album, obviously when he was in Drew Hill, but then we loved his solo album. And so I was like, I'm not going to pick a deep cut from the album because that won't get the crowd going. So I just went over to Mike and I was like, can you play thong song? You requested in the moment? Oh yeah. And Mike was so quick with it and he had the thong song on in seconds and the crowd went wild. I think people were coming up to me like I've

never seen the thong song hit like that. So anyway. People went crazy. Seriously. Okay. So I am going to tell you guys about built. By now, you have probably heard of it. You can earn points on your monthly rent payment, but did you know they also make it possible for you to get more outside of your home too? By paying rent through Bill, you earn flexible points that can be redeemed towards hundreds of hotels and airlines of future rent payment or your next lift ride and more, but it doesn't stop there. Bill is about making your entire neighborhood more rewarding. You can dine out of your favorite local restaurants and earn additional points,

get VIP treatment at certain fitness studios and enjoy exclusive experiences just for Built members every month. built is turning a monthly expense into an opportunity to earn rewards and discover the best that your neighborhood has to offer your rent is finally working for you and we love this so much and we've been talking about built for years and i feel like we've really seen it blow up become more of a household name our episode with brian kelly the points guy he talked about it and just how cool it is and what they're doing and how you really can use those built rewards for again things like all around your neighborhood i'm always seeing the little built sign at my fitness studios and everything so we just think

it's incredible. You guys can earn points on rent and around your neighborhood wherever you call home by going to joinbuilt.com slash g-ge. That's j-o-in-b-l-t.com slash g-gee. Make sure to use our URL so they know we set you. Okay. It is gifting season. It's cold season. It's stay-at-home. Don't have social plans be cozy season. I'm going to put you on to the best product that's Lola Blankets. So Lola is the world's number one blanket. It's crafted with ultra-soft, luxury, vegan faux fur and a signature four-way stretch that sets it apart. I love these blankets so much. Ashley and I just, they look so beautiful, draped on your bed or on your couch.

They're so cozy and warm. I literally was at the house for three days in a row this weekend. All I did was just sit under the blanket. It's so comfy and it is machine washable. It's really durable. That's huge. I know. I'm trying to take my blanket to the dry cleaner.

I did be getting some stuff on it this weekend. Food. What did you do this weekend? I don't even know. I'll tell you. I'll tell you. When are we going to talk about it? After this?

Sure. Okay. I didn't want to talk about this weekend. Yeah. Well, finish the blanket, Brad, and let's talk about it. So it's machine washable. It's really durable.

It is so soft. It's like being enveloped in luxury. They have a bunch of different colors and sizes. And this is really good for gifting. So it really is like a go-to gift. I feel like if you really don't know what to get somebody, this is it. It's just luxurious.

It feels nice. Lolo's over 10,000 five-star reviews. There is a reason why it's called the world's number one blanket. There's a large in Excel. I have the Excel. They also make weighted blankets and matching pillows. So give the gift of softness this holiday season with Lola Blankets for a limited time. Our listeners are getting a huge 40% off their entire order at LolaBlankets.com by using the code GGE at checkout. Just head to Lola Blankets.com and use the code GGE for 40% off.

And after your purchase, they will ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. It's such a good gift. A blanket is always a great gift. I think I are your brother and sister-in-law blankets a couple years ago for Christmas. it's just everybody wants it. I know. Okay, what did you do this weekend? I have the best three days in my life.

What? I never left the house. It was the best three days of my entire life. I got a haircut. I thought you wanted to get out. No. Why you keep going to New York? I've been out.

You go to New York every weekend. I, this is one of the best weekends of my life, and it was like stark opposite of your wedding, which is also one of the best weekends in my life. So I just need to relax. I did your wedding, which was, I mean, just so much socializing, so much running around and activities, and I went straight to New York.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was out every night. I did sets at the stand every night. And I got back here and I landed. We recorded three days in a row. Okay. So this is like your first weekend to totally relax and do nothing. Yeah.

So it was a month soon in L.A. You couldn't leave the house. It was crazy. I did not leave the house except for to get my hair cut. I and I don't think I've ever stayed in bed like this. I wasn't drinking. I wasn't hung over. I wasn't sick.

I was just like super clear. I got work done. I watched every show on television. I cooked. I literally, I stayed in the bed the whole day on Friday. I never got out of bed. Okay. And the weather was so perfect for it. That was like crazy rain.

Yeah. You did leave the house a little. We did. I just had to get out. And so we stayed in Friday night, Saturday, all day. It was like raining. I was like, I got to get out of the house. So we went and got margaritas with Taylor and Blake and just we drank a lot. You can't not drink a lot with them. Like though we just, I love hanging out with them and Taylor and I like, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. And they get to jump in every once in a while and they were just crushing beers.

I mean, Shishon and Blake go like beer for beer. You know, and you know, we're having so much fun and you are like, looking like, are you going to order another one? Are you going to order another one? And then you go to a point we're like, we'll share. They'll stay out until 5 in the morning. Yeah. If you let them.

Yeah. So, I don't know. I haven't had a weekend like that. I did not do anything. I didn't see anybody. I consumed a level of television I've never consumed before. Okay. But you see, it was great.

Okay. So I wanted to talk about my pre-nup. This might be like a longer conversation. And Raina obviously contribute. And we talked about preempts in the podcast. We had on Laura Wasser. who is the number one divorce attorney in the country. She did Kim Kardashian's divorce.

And we had Jason Tardick who discussed it a little bit too. And we did do one. And I had a wonderful experience. I'm so excited to tell you guys about it. I thought I would kind of start with my feelings about marriage in general just to catch anyone up who's new here. Because I think how you feel what marriage is tied into the pre-up and the process. And I like to run the tape on like the very first episode of this podcast in 2018.

I was like, this is the year I'm going to get engaged. L.O.L. So you know what? crazy to think is like what the future of the podcast would have look like. I mean, I didn't have any option. But like if one of us was married from like day one, I mean, this was like this like really like female empowerment having a boyfriend is embarrassing podcast. Yeah, it really has been. And until I met my now husband and started dating him in

2023, I was not partnered the whole history of the podcast. Rana had a boyfriend era and we dated a ton and we've shared those stories. But like, I didn't. of a boyfriend. And so this is kind of why this conversation ties into the topic today too. And I was just like, I just want to be a single icon and I want to live my best life. And, you know, I got married at 42, which is outside the norm. And as I got into my 30s, our career started taking off. I was like, I don't know if marriage is for me. I'm really trying to not say this exactly how I say it in my stand up, but it is accurate in that I'm not going to change my last name. I'm making my own money. And I don't want children. And I think it is so wonderful to be.

be married and have a family and all share the same last name. My parents have been married, what, you know, 42 years? Forty two years. And Shishonk's parents will be 40 years this year. Yeah. And both of us, like our family's healthy, stable, long time marriage, our parents is like part of who we are and what has molded us and we look up to it and it's really important in our lives. But I just wasn't sure what it would benefit to me. Yeah. And I started dating him and And very early on, the day we made it official, which was July 8th, 2023, the day before my 40th birthday, we had a conversation about kids in marriage. And he had already knew I didn't want kids. And I was like, just to reiterate, I'm not having kids. So if you change your money, you got to tell me. And he was like, I don't want kids, but I do want to get married. It's important to me. And I want that type of commitment in my life. And we talked about our parents. And I was like, all right, I would get married. I think in that moment, I was like, I think I'm going to marry him. You know, like, I think, I think I was starting to feel like I loved him and, you know. You told me before your birthday, I think I'm falling in love with him and I was like, what?

I literally remember coming over to your house before we went to that birthday trip and you were like, I'm in love with him. And I was like, what? He was in love me too. We weren't even officially. He was in love with you before you guys even met. That's true. He had been in love with me. That's so fair. So I was excited, obviously, to fall in love with him, to get engaged and to marry him. And there was never anything in the back of my head like, like, I don't really want to, like wholeheartedly, I want to marry this man. I'm going to spend my life with him. I want to be committed to him. And we always knew a pre-up was going to be on the table. For me, it doesn't matter if I'm marrying somebody who makes more or less. I don't think that at this age, two adults coming together that if I were to marry you

and you have more money than me, I'm the day we get married, I'm entitled to half of that. And I wouldn't want that for me. You shouldn't want that for me. someone coming in just because they marry me, they are entitled to part of girls got to eat should we get divorced. And so I always had felt like that and he knew I felt like that too. And you know, I think a lot of people think that's what marriage is about. You come together, everything goes into the pot. You build a family together. You build your own careers together. You get married when you're younger. It's also different when you're, you know, 23 and you're going to

kids. Yeah. And I respect whatever you want to do for your own marriage. That just wasn't me. And it wasn't him either. And so this summer in August, I started the pre-up journey and I talked to our business manager and he put me in touch with a lawyer and he explained all the things. So California, every state is in some version of legality, but California is a community property state. So you get married without a pre-up. The state says everything you both have goes into the pot and you're entitled to half of it. So even if you had it before. Yeah. Like day one of the marriage, everything's in the pot. Okay. And if we got divorced, A month later, 20 years later, he's entitled to half of it.

I'm entitled to half of his. Okay. And spousal support. So whoever makes more, we'll give the other person's spousal support. Even if there's not kids. Even there's no kids involved. And neither of us would have wanted that. Like we're grown adults.

He would never think Ashley and I are going to get divorced and she's going to pay me. We don't have children or vice versa. And so that was something we didn't want to. And I understand why the laws are like this. They're more so to protect women who may give up their career. to raise a family or even not raise a family, support their husband's career. I support the structure,

but talking about two adults that came into a marriage, on equal footing, you both work, you're both capable and you're not having children. It's a different scenario. So we talk about all this and how both of us, I talked with a lawyer, we would do all the paperwork, do all the financial disclosures,

have to submit all this stuff, and then we would both have to get lawyers. So I would have a lawyer and he would have to get a lawyer, especially if you are waiving and spousal support, And it's like a bare minimum to do it that way of like $6,000, probably more like eight upwards of $10,000. The whole thing. The whole thing altogether.

All together. Okay. Yeah. So I'm thinking like we are paying $8,000, let's say, to just override the state's marriage laws. And this started to beg the question of what is the reason for us to get married? Because we're not having kids. We're not changing names.

It's just this legal transaction that says, we're entitled to half of each other's money and now we have to pay extra money to override that. Like, what does it mean? And it started to just get me down. This was right before my bachelorette. And I was just like, this is just like an added layer of stress and expenses to what should be this joyful time.

I never thought this was going to be romantic. You know, I think these conversations are very important. And I think this is what it means to be a healthy couple that you're on the same page and you know all these things about each other. I always knew it was going to be unromantic. but I didn't really expect it to be so stressful and causing like doubt about the whole journey in general. And he and I talked about it and like what marriage means to us and all these other things we have to deal with now with the pre-up. And we both came to the conclusion that we want to be

legally married and committed and we want to do it. And we're going to do the pre-up and whatever the extra work or the extra admin were it's worth it to us. And that's when I was thinking to myself, like there just has to be a better way. Like it's 2025. Someone has had to have figured this out. like a better, a cheaper way, like a more streamlined way to do this. Eight to ten grand, I mean, that's more money than I would have ever had in my savings account in my 20s. It's more than most people have in their savings account. That's a really life-changing amount of money for some people that you don't, you can't

afford to do that. Well, the thing is, is typically the person with more money pays all of that. They pay for their future spouse's lawyer fees too, which was not what we were going to do. But anyway, so I start, start Googling. and I come across this service called Hello Prenup, and I'm reading about them. They're totally legitimate. They've been on Shark Tank,

and it was started by these two women, and I see that Laura Wasser was an advisor, and I'm like, say less. Laura is involved. And I'm like, this is what I've been looking for. This should be easier. We should be able to do some of this online and not have to go meet with a lawyer

and pay all this money. And so I decided to email Laura. I was like, I'm going to email Laura, and see what's up? And I was like because what if I could work with them, learn more about the company, have a personal experience, and also spread the word on girls,

got to eat. I felt like so passionately about it immediately. And Laura responded, I was like, I have a girl crush on Laura. Who doesn't? Yeah. She took like two days to respond.

Like two days and she was like, I'm sorry, I've been in trial. I'm like, do not apologize to me. Who's tried? She did Kim Kardashian's divorce. I mean, name a famous divorce in history, she did it. She's like, sorry I've been in court.

Who's getting divorced right now? I was like, do not say sorry to me. I can't believe you respond. it to me honestly. Like I'm so glad you took the time. And so she was like, yes, let's do this. And so she put me in touch with Julia Rogers, who was the co-founder. And she is an attorney. And she started with another woman who's a software engineer. And so I just feel so emotional about this because it was everything I was looking for and I had the best experience. And it made it so easy. And I was worried at first, it was going to be like a turbotax, which I tried once

years ago and crashed out, you know. And this was just such an easy process. And it was just such an easy process and I didn't need anyone to help me along the way, but I just liked being in touch with Julia and learning about the company. But it's just you sign up, you invite your partner, you both fill out all the forms. They're so easy to do. Like every question you answer, it's a lot of yes or no. And everything that might be the slightest bit confusing, there's like a video tutorial from an attorney on what this means. Because when I started really hearing about the pre-up from you, I was like, I always just was a little flippant about it. I was like, everybody should get a pre-up.

We talked to Laura years ago. She was like, you have a pre-nup. The state gives you a pre-nap. And I was like, everybody should just get a pre-up. And I just thought, like, you should be able to sign a thing that says, like, I'm fucking leaving with what I came with. But, like, you really have to unearth every single dollar that you have made, saved, and that's also coming to you.

I didn't even think about inheritance. Like, all these things, like, what happens when we die and ready to go will and all those things? Like, I never really thought, like, just how granular it was. I was a little flippant about it. Well, I think that some people. also might start the process and not do it. Like, I was always going to do it. I felt committed to it. But there was that point when I was talking to the first attorney. Like, do we really doing this?

I've just spent all this money, spend all this time. Like, I'm sure some people are like, yeah, we'll do a pre-up. And then they start the process. They're like, fuck it. Let's just hope for the best. Yeah. And of course, he and I, we have no plans to break up. Like, that's the whole thing too. And I love this whole narrative that's coming about that couples that discuss this stuff and have preempts actually break up less because they've had the conversations and they're realistic. Well, it really speaks a lot to a couple's conflict style, right? I mean, these are really uncomfortable conversations to have. Like, I really, I cannot stress on how flippant I felt about it previously and how

difficult these things are to discuss, like how much money is coming to you if your parents die, like any debts, all that stuff too. All that stuff. I mean, to disclose that to somebody is really tough. And I think that it's never going to be a fun, easy conversation. somebody's you're always going to find out debts about with somebody you're always going to find out that your partner makes more or less etc but if you can have those conversations you are like really in a different league but you really have to be on the same page and of course we share money and you know with one of us

really needed support from the other like that goes without saying like we live together we pay rent we go travel like we're not keeping tabs you know like we have a good thing going but in terms of what i've built and what i built with you when i built on my own and what he's got like that's it's separate and so to be you're reading this and you're like this feels like kind of insensitive sometimes like that your answers but we were aligned and we worked through it and so we felt out the paperwork online it was super easy and then you put in all your financial stuff and then we each talk to our own lawyer so I had an hour long conversation with the lawyer he had a hour long conversation with another lawyer we went over the pre-nup and full and then you basically

finalize it and then you have to wait seven days at least that's california law to notarize it so there's a seven day waiting period so the notarization was also very like high tech and cool like it was a virtual with a notary we did this like the friday before the wedding that was the timeline when i was procrastinated a little bit i was busy you know i was doing the tour and so we kind of wait we're down to the wire but you just are on you know zoom call essentially with somebody and they walk you through it and just do you understand all this you hit yes and a bunch of things sign a bunch of papers quickly, like e-sign initial, 20 minutes to notarize it in full virtually with a notary. And then you're done. And I mean, you could do this, the pre-up part in a couple

hours. If you had all your financial stuff locked and loaded, I just want to tell people, like, but we did it piece by piece over the course of, you know, a couple weeks. And their flat one-time fee, because you guys were probably like, how much does this cost? The fellow pre-nups flat one-time fee is $5.99 per couple. That's fucking crazy. And they also offer e-signature and notarization for $50 per couple. And then they have the option to add attorney services at any point. So there are Q&A sessions for $49 per.

And then attorney document review, bottom line, the full thing with the lawyer is $6.99 per person. So $1,400. If you do the both lawyers, you don't always need that. We did that. $1,400 plus $2,000 with all the bells and whistles for the most part. you're in like a $2,000 range to get this done. But again, depending on your situation, it could be $600. What an amazing company.

It really is. I just wanted a couple of stats from them. They've protected over $27 billion in assets. And I love this stat. Approximately 20% of the U.S. preempt market passes through hella preempt. So they're doing 20% of all preempts in the U.S. These preempts are obviously goes without saying holding up in court. And I know that preempts can have stigma around them.

and if it helps, you can call it a premarital agreement. That's another official term you can use. It sounds a little gentler. But ultimately, it's just saying, obviously, we plan to never need this. And that's why I will reiterate that studies show that couples who do these agreements have lower divorce rates. But in case things do go south and one party exits this marriage by divorce or worse, not to get too dark, you get to decide what will happen to your current and

future assets rather than what the state decides for you. And it's more than just money in there. It's what the plan would be for your shared home, whether you own or rent, your pet, your pet's medical bills. You know, we had to put stuff in the agreement about Azul. And it is just providing that clarity and protection on your own terms, which is what I love about it and why I wanted to share this so much. And I became friends with Julia, the co-founder. She came to my show in Boston. She's a Boston Gurley. She came to the show. It was this really full circle moment at the very last show of the tour and to meet Shishonk. And I was like, she was helping with the pre-up. You know, and I just really wanted to be in it. I didn't need her help, but I wanted to like talk to her along the way because

I really want to speak about this and spread this gospel to anyone that is wanting to do a pre-up and is like stressed about the cost and the time and the meetings and all that stuff that there is an easier way. I feel like so happy these women started this. Wow. No, I just, I, love it. I think how many people probably walk into this and see a price tag of $6 to $10,000. And they're like, nothing's going to happen. We're going to be fine. Like, I cannot tell you how many divorces I've seen recently. You and I've talked about this, like, with and without pre-ups. And like, we have friends that had car, a home, all kinds of, they were divorced in six weeks because they had a pre-up and other friends that this will drag on forever. And like,

you think you love somebody and you are a rock-sol at the beginning of a relationship and nothing will make somebody act worse than if you leave them when they don't want to end the relationship. Like, I have seen the craziest behavior from people that loved each other more than anybody in the world. It is, there's nothing more common on earth. And to be able to see people protect themselves, men and women, for under two grand. I just like, love what they're doing. I did ask them just for a little discount code.

They, like, wanted to partner with us. So you guys can use GGE for $100 off. I love it. It's a big discount. Yeah. And that is hello prenup.com. Just super easy. So I just wanted to share that.

And I really feel for anybody who's going through this process and it's not sexy. I had no idea how unsexy was. Marriage in general is just not sexy. It's just, it's paperwork. It's government paperwork. And now this is what like our state gets to decide our relationship is. It would be a really funny time to announce you're not actually married. Can you imagine after the two hour wedding episode?

You're like, you know, we just didn't. We didn't sign the papers. Well, I asked the lawyer that. And that's a whole other conversation. Like he was like kind of doomsday about when couples don't get married and something called palimony. A partner can come for someone based on what they were promised and it's really vague and gray area. And it's actually you're more protected in a marriage with a pre-up than not getting married.

Palomone is just you weren't officially married, but you were literally married. but you were living as if you were, you were living together. Common law. Yeah, and someone can come and be like, well, they told me that I could have the house and there's really, like, you just have to go to court to prove it.

So it was interesting. It happens a lot. With like women that move in with men that promise them the world and like they give up their jobs and their homes and then men just leave them with nothing. Yeah, men are embarrassing. Which brings us to our topic today.

So we will get into it. Just going to talk about our remaining partners. I am telling you guys about Sacks, Fifth Avenue. This episode is brought to you by Sacks with Avenue. Okay, this is the perfect place to find holiday gifts, inspiration, whoever you guys are shopping for, maybe you have a new husband. Are you a family?

Is that a gift guide on the Sacks? If you think you're not getting something from Sacks, actually, I'm just going to get you something and put in a Sacks bag, your style. I have to tell you something after this. What? Oh my God, you guys. She's full of secrets.

Okay, so you guys can shop Sacks. I just am on the site all the time. I mean, their gift guides are incredible. We always say men can be sometimes harder to shop for it, Ray. I'm looking at this polo sweatshirt right now. I think you wore a shirt with a bear on it last week. So here's another one. The Polo Bear shirts, they slap so hard.

There's so many versions. This Arctic Polo Bear sweatshirt under 200 bucks. That's a great gift. And also anything you want to wear to a holiday party, of course, or any special event. They have you covered. And they really are going to help you find stuff that you just don't see everywhere. That's the thing. Like every time I'm on this site,

I see clothing that I just have never seen before and it can really help you stand out and just feel extra stylish, especially if you're in your fashion era. Rain and I are our self-proclaimed fashion era. And it really is going to help you find gifts for even the pickiest people on your list or curate your own holiday wish list. It can help you host the perfect holiday party or dinner. Anything you want to do, even if you're just staying cozy at home like Ray all weekend, you want to just lounge and some soft, cozy, comfy clothes.

They have you covered for that too. So you guys should check them out. this holiday season, you can head to Sacks Fifth Avenue or Sacks.com to make shopping easier. And speaking of the holiday season, get a little gifty this season and some spending can be a little out of control, little sales, which are great. But it's hard to know kind of like what your personal finances look like. So Rocket Money really is the best app for that. It is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. It'll monitor your spending and help lower your bills so you can grow your savings. So the interface is great when you go on the app. It just gives you

you like an overview of everything that you're subscribed to, what your spending looks like. It's really easy to navigate it. The dashboard just lays out the whole financial picture of what bills you have to pay and paydays and things like that. So if you're just like, I want to get my finances in order this holiday season, this is like the best up. And one thing they're going to do is help you cancel unwanted subscriptions. So it'll lay out all the subscriptions you have and they can help you get rid of those. They can help you negotiate lower bills and you can get alerts for your bills increasing in price. So it monitors all this activity, all this spending. And Rocket Money has saved users over $2.5 billion, including over $880 million in canceled subscriptions alone. There are 10 million

members save up to $740 a year when they use all of the apps premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with RocketMoney. Go to rocketmoney.com slash GGE today. That's rocketmoney.com slash gge. Rocketmoney.com slash gge. So today we're talking about if having a boyfriend is embarrassing. And neither of us have them. So we are not embarrassing. We are married and single icons. I'm obsessed with that.

We would never do you guys wrong by like, oh, having a boyfriend. That's so gross. But this article came out as an opinion piece in British Vogue. It's by the author, Shanté Joseph. And it's called Is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing now. And we are going to read you the article. It impacts cultural norms and social norms around having a boyfriend

and how things have really changed. And Ashley and I really want to unpack themes in this and just how our own experiences have changed and our listeners' experiences over the years and the types of messages we've gotten over the years versus now in relation to this. And the response to this article was unbelievable. I mean, just millions of people,

from men, from women, from people in relationships, not in relationships. And this has sparked a huge discussion on the line. I think we're the last podcast to talk about it. Worldwide. I think it's been trained. translated in different languages. I mean, she is floored.

Like, this put Vogue on the map. Is Vogue back? Vogue is so bad. People hadn't heard of Vogue. No, I'm just kidding. But seriously, like, Vogue has stayed so relevant. It's an entire existence. But this is just Vogue, Vogue, Vogue, Vogue, Vogue, Vogue, Vogue.

And I just, I love that it was in Vogue. I do too. I love British Vogue. Well, that's the thing. Like, she was saying, and we'll talk about her response article, she wrote a follow-up. she's like people are calling me this New York City, Carrie Bradshaw icon.

I live in London. She is giving that though. Yeah. All right. I'm going to try to speed read this. I might leave out some of the most relevant stuff. I read this article over and over to prepare for this. But we just felt like you guys, if you haven't read it,

we don't want you to navigate away. So we just thought we would read the article for you. Okay. So titled is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing now. The opening, I can't get over. She says, if someone so much just says, my boy on social media, they're muted. You know there are some girls like that, though, that I'm like, you have made this your whole personality and I'm out.

There's nothing I hate more than following someone for fun, only for their content to become my boyfriendified suddenly. This is probably because for so long it felt like we were living in what one of my favorite substackers called Boyfriend Land, a world where women's online identities centered around the lives of their partners, a situation rarely seen reversed. When I read that, I was like, oh, you never see that. It chills the whole episode. Women were rewarded for their ability to find and keep a man with elevated social standards. status and praise, it became even more suffocating when this could be leveraged on social media for engagement and if you were serious enough, financial gain. However, more recently, there's been a pronounced shift in the way people showcase their relationships online, far from

fully hard-launching romantic partners. Straight women are opting for subtler signs, a hand on a steering wheel, clinking glasses at dinner, or the back of someone's head. On the more confusing end, you have faces blurred out of wedding pictures or entire professionally edited videos with the fiance conveniently cropped out of all shots, women are obscuring their partner's face when they post, is if they want to erase the fact that they exist without actually not posting them. So, what gives, are people embarrassed by their boyfriends now, or is it something more complicated going on? To me, it feels like the result of women wanting to straddle two worlds, one where they can receive the social benefits of having a partner, but also not a peer.

So boyfriend obsessed that they come across is quite culturally loserish. They want the prize in celebration of partnership, but understand the norminess of it, says Zoe Sam Moodzie, writer, and activist. In other words, in an era of widespread, heterophatilism, women don't want to be seen as being all about their man, but they also want the clout that comes with being partnered. But it's not all about image. When I did a call out on Instagram, plenty of women told me they were in fact superstitious. They feared the evil eye, a belief that their happy relationships would spark jealousy. I'm going to kind of paraphrase their concern about their relationship ending and then being

stuck with the posts. Someone said, even though I'm a romantic, I still feel like men will embarrass you 12 years in, so claiming them feel so lame. Then there was an overwhelming sense from single and partnered women alike that regardless of the relationship, being with a man, was an almost guilty thing to do. Someone on the delusional Diaries podcast, they discuss whether having a boyfriend is lame now. Why does a boyfriend feel Republican? Read a top comment. That's my favorite lie. Boyfriends are out of style. They won't come back in until they start acting right. Read another comment with thousands of likes. In essence, having a boyfriend typically takes hits on a woman's aura as a commenter claimed. And it's not just in these women's imagination. Audiences are icked out by

seen too much boyfriend content, myself included, it seems, as though indicated by my liberal use of the mute button. There's a British Vogue contributor. They mentioned that hard launched her boyfriend. She lost hundreds of followers. There's something cringing, embarrassing about constantly posting your partner these days. She tells me. And then also, you can feel guilty about what feels like bragging when the dating landscape

is really bad at the moment. She says, I wouldn't want to be boastful. Sophie Miller and a content creator also experienced people on following her when she shared a romantic relationship. She admits that her content perhaps becomes less exciting when she is in a relationship. being single gives you this ultimate freedom to say and do what you want. It is absolutely not every woman, but I do notice that we can become more beige and watered down online when in a relationship, myself included. From my conversation, one thing is certain. The script is shifting.

Being partnered doesn't affirm your womanhood anymore. It is no longer considered an achievement. And if anything, it's become more of a flex to pronounce yourself single. I read that line and I got it out of my seat as a fucking married person. Okay. As straight women were confronting something that every other sexuality has had to contend with, a politicization. of our identity. Heterosexuality has long been purposely indefinable, so it is harder for those within it and outside of it to critique. However, as our traditional roles begin to crumble, maybe we're being forced to re-evaluate our blind allegiance to heterosexuality. Obviously, there's no shame falling in love, but there's also no shame in trying and failing to find it or not

trying at all. And as long as we're openly rethinking and criticizing heteronormativity, having a boyfriend will remain a somewhat fragile or even contentious concept within public life. This is also happening alongside a wave of women reclaiming and romanticizing their single life where being single was once a cautionary tale, you'll end up a spinster with loads of cats, childless cat lady, J.D. Bantz, it is now becoming a desirable and coveted status. Another nail in the coffin of a centuries old heterosexual fairy tale that never really benefited women to begin with. I love this article. Thank you to this author for writing this. It is really phenomenal to just see this cultural shift, this social shift. And you and I have seen this firsthand

because of the tone of the emails we get from people over the years. And some of our most popular episodes in the last year were Scott Galloway and Professor Chesco, which both push back against these norms and say that like men are acting like trash. And until that they act better, women shouldn't necessarily be with them. And for so many years, the rhetoric was all these women are going to end up alone. There's never been so many women that are unmarried without children. And I think this takes back the narrative of like, look at these lives that women are building and look how much happy you can be single than with somebody that is dragging you down and draining your resources.

And none of this is to say, wanting partnership is not embarrassing. Wanting partnership is beautiful. And if somebody can have what you have, a real teammate in life that makes their life better and uplifts them and makes their life easier, that's the goal. We're social beings. We all want to be with somebody. But until we find that making your entire personality and identity about another person who might not even be worthy of it, that's what's embarrassing.

And women don't need men anymore, hot take. And I love the content surrounding this and how marriage benefits men more than women now in this day and age. I saw a comment and I wish I screenshot it, but it said, if marriage benefited women, they would have taken it away from us by now. Seriously. Right. You know, like it's for men. Like access to abortion. Yes.

Like just like health care, you know, the difference between men's and women's health care. So women are just more powerful than ever, and so many women obviously have not bought into this traditional patriarchy, but even more women are waking up to like, I don't have to live like this, and we're seeing more women get elected, and there is this shift. I feel it in my bones. And there was quite a response to this, and I want to say, the title was, not not inflammatory. It's just

I can understand why it struck a nerve. However, you have to read the whole fucking article. Like the response to this was proof we're losing the fight against literacy. Also, it was posed as a question. Also, it wasn't like having a boyfriend is embarrassing, you fucking suckers. But people were pissed. And it's because it can be destabilizing to question what you've always thought is, I don't know, an end goal.

About your whole life driving twice. Yeah. You know, like the most impressive way to live. And people are saying that's not true anymore. And so I understand where it did strike a nerve with a lot of people. It was the status symbol. And I mean, I always joked that like when I hard launched my boyfriend years ago, it was the most engagement I've ever gotten.

It was more than any accomplishment you and I had ever done. And I think, you know, being in love and being a relationship is the most relatable thing in the world. starting a new business, selling out the Chicago theater, not the most relatable thing in the world. So people can easily be a part of it. And so I understand people championing it. All women have been raised that finding a partner is the most important thing.

So I understand that it is like a real shock to the system. It sort of reminds me of like the body positivity movement and how I have been conditioned my whole life to hate my body. And I woke up one day and somebody was like, you have to love your body now. And you're like, wait, I spent my whole life. Right. I spent my whole of hating myself.

Now I have to love myself. So I think this really just questions, you know, what does it look like to not have a partner? What do other status symbols look like? And my personal experience is like, I sort of zoomed out, look at all my girlfriends. I've never had more single girlfriends in my life. Really successful, amazing women that all seem pretty happy. And I've seen quite a few girlfriends walk away from men in the last year that made a ton of money, could have made their lives real easy, could have provided a home and children and all those things.

And they were living with these men. And I have seen my friends walk away from situations that could have benefited them in a lot of ways because they were not happy in those situations. And I love that we're championing that. I love that that's really overwhelmingly what our listeners are emailing us about. I found this person. They're fine. Yeah. But could being alone maybe be better than just fine.

And I love that we're finally questioning this. Right. Like what's embarrassing is being with someone who makes your life worse. who makes your life harder, more stressful, more unstable, just so you're not single. You know, obviously what's embarrassing is letting a man become your whole life. And we can kind of tackle that later and abandon your friendships and your hobbies and all the things that make you you for some man. And the thing that I just keep coming back to is that any woman who was brought up, whether be through nurture or nature or both, to believe that marriage is the end goal and this is our greatest accomplishment as a woman is to be,

wife and or mother and always felt like being partnered was better than being single. Like a lot of those women felt like being single was embarrassing. Absolutely. We all know those people that they think that's a fate worse than death and they just hop from relationship to relationship because being single of it all is what's so embarrassing, which I couldn't relate less. I've never felt like that. I've been single most of my life.

And so it's totally flipping that on its head. I mean, I think it's hard for some people to process. They're like, oh, it's the exact opposite of what I thought all this time. I was trying to avoid the thing that I thought was embarrassing, which was to be alone. I have never been more single than I am today. I'm not dating anybody. I am not really sleeping with anybody. I'm really happy.

Yeah. I just had this great weekend. No one was bothering me. I have all these girlfriends and social plans and I feel really fulfilled professionally. We have a lot of like great stuff coming up. there's not a real deficit in my life because I think I'm never waiting for somebody to ask me like why are you single? Why are you dating anybody? I don't have any fears. I never have really about going for the holidays and someone's like where where's the guy like you know who I just I feel more comfortable

in my single to have been happier than I ever have. I've more single girlfriends than I've ever had in my life and I just I understand that's not everybody's experience. I'm really lucky that we don't really have a lot of girlfriends even the ones that are married or in serious relationships that make that their whole personality. Like none of my girlfriends have ever made me feel stupid or less than because I'm single and they've managed to figure it out. And, you know, these like fuck boys I deal with, like no one's ever made me feel less than. They take it seriously.

They take my life seriously. And I'm really lucky that you and I, that's our experience and we're surrounded by really amazing women. But I understand that it's hard to be in a community where everybody is married with children. And you're like, I feel left out. Right. Do you feel like, I feel like on social media

and I didn't really even think about this until this article came out. But like, you used to see so many, like, influencer girlies. And a lot of their content was them and their, our boyfriend, so much of it. And I feel like I don't see that as much as I used to. And I really like ran the tape. Do you feel like it's become like less in vogue to be this like influencer couple and that's your whole brand? Yeah. I mean, that's the part of the shift, I think. And it's also okay

if you still do that. And we know some of those couples. And I think overall we just need to stop policing women. And whether you choose to make a partner, a big part of your world publicly, or you choose to decenter them. I mean, I support both. You know, I think I fall somewhere in the middle. I mean, you can agree or disagree. But I think we've gotten to this place where we're like so critical in general.

And I think a big thing that Hannah and Paige have owned is the decentering of their partners. And then, you know, you have people that are going to critique that too. And they're like, well, they must not be in love and they must be breaking up. And, you know, you can't win a lot of times. And so I think I wanted to make that statement that we've just got to stop policing women.

like whatever they want to do. But I found it really fascinating in the article. Clearly there's a shift, a cultural shift, and women are just becoming more powerful and independent by the day, but of the embarrassment of it all. And just like the concept of not posting someone because you might break up isn't new, but just more than ever, it's just so much bad behavior. And even someone saying, like, you're bound to embarrass me. Like, you don't get to be a part of my social presence is interesting. I mean, we've never seen worse behavior in the history of time. I feel like every day, I mean, I only date men, so I can only speak to men. But only every day men have invent new ways to be unbelievably terrible. I've dealt with so much bad behavior this year from people that I've dated. It's just new and fresh all the time. I can't believe it. And I don't feel personally embarrassed. It's embarrassing to lean into that and to tolerate it and to lower your standards for somebody. And you shouldn't feel embarrassed. I know you find somebody that you care about. and people are imperfect and you want to give them grace and understanding and compassion. But I see so many people just stick around and be like, well, did you ever see this meme?

I said, like, I'm just a girl standing here asking a totally mediocre guy who I'm better looking in that. And it's okay if he doesn't want to commit to me, maybe he could just text me a little bit more. Yeah, like something in the vein, yeah. It's, I see so much terrible behavior and I hate that women have stuck around for it for so long. And it's behavior that men would never stick around for the, again, I can't, I can't speak to what women do. I only did it men, but the inconsistency and the gaslighting and the cheating and even all the way up to abuse. I mean, I cannot believe what women have been forced to deal with that men would never deal with.

And dealing with that for a long time can feel embarrassing. And I like that women are just like, until y'all get better, I'm going to be over here in my corner with my friends, my hobbies, my job, my interests, until you get better. Yeah, I agree. And, you know, a lot of the takes were, it's embarrassing if he's embarrassing, you know, like, it's, It's embarrassing if he's an embarrassing guy and he doesn't treat you well and he makes your life shitty. We co-sign that, but she wrote in her follow-up article, which I also really appreciated. She said, another common response to my article was an immediate rush to add caveats to

the main question. People insisted that having a boyfriend had the potential to be embarrassing only when a man doesn't meet certain criteria or isn't good to you. Whether that's true or not is irrelevant. The need to identify exceptions is one way of evading conversation about meaningful change within heterosexual dynamics and the mess of modern dating. You know, because everyone was like, not my man. Not my man.

And like I also get that too. Of course. You feel like not my man. It's not my man. It's not about me. Yeah. Well, it reminds me this TikTok I posted. And I don't think she's the first person ever post this.

But it said the biggest man haters have the best men at home. I will die on this hill. And I think that's a lot of what we talked about with Drew Off Wallow of just like women who understand the harm that men cause in this society and have high standards for the men they let in their life and kind of do the whole man-hating thing if you really want to put it in that bucket, which I don't really think that we do. But you know, you can throw us in there talking about bad men behavior and we're feminist and the man that you do choose is going to be a good one. And I love that take. Yeah, I think also like you look at your own relationship and you're like,

you specifically, like we get along, we treat each other really well. is this so hard for some men? And I think no one hates this behavior from men more than men. I know. I think men look at other men and you're like, you're making us look so bad. And I was really shocked. I had like a pretty, I slept with a friend of ours. It didn't go well. It was bad. He treated me really poorly. And I was very upset. It really took me out. And all my girlfriends were super supportive. Everybody was wonderfully supportive. The people that got the most mad about this were our male friends. The ones that you and I would say are in great relationships. They're great husbands. they're great boyfriends.

They're the ones that are like, I would never fucking do this. I cannot believe this behavior. They were more mad than my girlfriends were. I think men are like, I am better and it's not that hard. Well, this is how I feel about white women. And I bring this,

I bring this comparison up all the time because it's really all I got. When you talk about men versus women, I'm going to speak on behalf of white women. And when I see a headline or a TikTok or an article or whatever about the problem with white women. No, I don't think I'm perfect.

And I try my best every day to be the best white woman I can be. But I know they're not talking about me in the way that these women vote, what they support, their misogyny, their values, the inflicting harm on immigrants or whatever it may be. We know the women you're talking about. And that's not who I am. But it makes me even more mad because we're part of the same group and you're making us look bad. And so I understand where men.

are like pissed about this and I was watching some of the response videos too because I mean my TikTok is just fire all the time it is just hot progressive people my entire TikTok it is incredible it's like the hottest women you've ever seen standing up for what's right and Democrats and then these hot guys like talking about how men need to act right like it is so perfectly curated but I was watching a guy talk about like hey guys women are out here saying we're embarrassing like men are behaving badly we got to do better and it felt really authentic and it was a good great message. And I was like, I know that face. Who is that? And it was Casey from Fuck Boy Island, like so many years ago. And I was like, what a redemption arc, I guess.

That's funny. That's funny. And I love that. Like, that's how it should feel. Like, of course, there was immediate backlash from insecure men and she got hate mail and death threats, I'm sure. And she talks about that in her follow-up article. She says the article sparks some hateful abuse. And people told her, you're going to die sad and single. and, you know, threatened her or whatever. And she said at points all of this was worrying, but I quickly realized they likely saw the article as a threat to a system that has historically favored them.

If having a man used to be the ultimate prize and now some women are questioning whether it is anymore, well, that's bound to be destabilizing. So I thought that was really interesting in connection to why does it feel decidedly Republican? And I, listen, Republicans are not the same as MAGA to me, but MAGA to me is a system that up holds the patriarchy and men over everything and has really, they're taking away women's

reproductive rights. I mean, it is the party that is doing that that is benefiting the patriarchy. So, you know, all of this, having a boyfriend and being with somebody that is mediocre or it doesn't treat you well, that benefits men. This all benefits. So it feels decidedly MAGA. Yeah. And it's, Rayna and I are out here joking about it being embarrassing having a boyfriend.

We're just joking about the article, like saying Rayne, a single and married, like whatever. like we would never like I had a boyfriend I mean you know it's not embarrassing to be in a healthy relationship with someone you love I think that most people want love in their life you mention it they they want partnership and the writer says that in her follow-up article too like I want to find somebody too and that's why it was so interesting the way that people read this and got so defensive and again it's because you thought you may have thought that having this boyfriend was this universally respected thing and people are questioning that yeah but it's No, I mean, obviously.

Like, if you're in a relationship you're proud of, it's not embarrassing. And show it or don't. And wanting it is not embarrassing. Yes, yes. Finding somebody to treats you really well is wonderful. You know, I think it is important that the cultural shift, the suggestion that there's another way of life that could also make you happy, that you don't have to identify as having a partner as being the most important achievement in the world.

There's other important achievements in the world. And I'm pretty proud of myself. I have a great life. I don't have a boyfriend. And if I found one, great. that's great too. But if not, if I never find somebody, I will have a great life. And either way is fine. I just, I like that we're challenging these, these cultural norms. Yeah, that's the biggest thing for me. Like, the old school way of thinking were women in relationships had a higher place

in society than single women. And it shouldn't be like that. And this is flipping that on its head. But at the end of the day, I don't like women being defined by their relationship status. And that was a pushback on the article too. And I don't like that single women are trendy now. Like I like the ultimate message because I always want to empower single women live your best life. You don't need a partner. But I just want to tow that line of implying that independence is a trend or single women against partnered women. And I think some people took that away and you can take that away from it or not.

But I think when you really start to label and define women by their relationship status, that gets in a dangerous territory and that defeats the purpose. I think that's a good point. To me, the ultimate takeaway is like there's just a lot of paths to happiness. And if you want your whole identity in the world and on social media to be you and your partner, that's fine too. A lot of people make a lot of money doing that. That's fine also.

But I like just opening up the conversation that like you can be happy in any different phase of life. And it's not embarrassing to be single. I mean, how many people were single at your wedding this week? I couldn't believe it. Like, we saw a couple people come without their partners. We have a lot of single girlfriends. I feel really lucky that the women in my life, one, we're not friends with her anymore, but the women in my life don't define themselves by their partners.

And they also have wonderful partners, you know? I think that like both things can exist. You can have this amazing relationship at home and also not define yourself by it. Yeah, it was nice to see that at the wedding, that there were single people there looking hot, living their best life. And they're also just really great men, you know, that were there. And just, I don't know, hearing about my friends' husbands who were, they were so excited to dress up in Indian clothes or a chance to break out the tucks and be there for all four of the events and just really support me. It just was really nice. They're just, I don't have any,

really those, like, duds of husbands in our, in our lives, really. I love our friends' husbands. Yeah. What would you have done if the headline said is having a podcast embarrassing? Show them my bank account? Would have struck a nerve? That's fair. That's so fair.

Amen. What would you have done? I was trying to reframe it a little bit. You know, I was trying to put myself in the shoes of someone that would think that a big accomplishment of theirs and something they put a lot of weight and value on is being questioned as embarrassing. Okay, so I'm glad you asked me that because I was talking to this guy last week we were out with. And a very good looking guy.

He was with some friends of ours. And he had this conversation with me where he, I don't think he really knew who he was talking to. I'll give him that. He said, I find it really, he was talking about his ex and what she liked. He said, I find it really unattractive women that want the spotlight. I never be with somebody that really wants a lot of attention. That's posting themselves a lot.

That's just like, look at me. I need all this. I need everybody to hear my thoughts and opinions. I was kind of like laughing on the inside of the truth saying this. And I, that's okay to have a personal preference also. I was not on a date with this man who knew everything about me and then it was insulting me. He was expressing a personal preference to me.

And as he was saying that, I just thought it just doesn't apply to me. I just don't care. Yes, I need a lot of attention. I have a big platform. I want to talk about what I think could feel publicly on the internet all the time. It's not going to be for everybody.

If some people find it courage and embarrassing, that's fine. And you and I, I think, have changed the world and changed people's lives. And if other people find that cringe, that's their preference. Yes. And I love to wrap the conversation up in that way. If this struck a nerve with you, are you embarrassed to your boyfriend? You know, like so many people did this clap back. Uh, Vogue, is this embarrassing?

And it's some mediocre guy. It's some mid guy. Like, I watch a lot of the response videos. Is this embarrassing? And it's like, he brought you flowers. No, you didn't. get it. Did you read it? You didn't, you missed the point completely. And now you're overcompensating and I think you are embarrassing. You're exactly who the article is talking about being embarrassing.

I just like love that old response. Oh, I'm sorry. And it'd be like the corniest couple video you've ever seen. Get this, bogue. You single haters, you know. So anyway. Yeah, listen, if you don't think it's about you, it's not about you. Yeah, let's bring reading comprehension back. Let's make reading great again. That guy did apologize the next day. Not to me, but he told our friend to apologize to me. Yeah, and that's the thing. I mean, I don't want a guy that's in the spotlight like that. And there's things about that guy I wouldn't like too. I wasn't second to his face. Yeah. Yeah, that's the difference. He felt comfortable, just insulting to your face. He was like, you know what's really gross is when people want this spotlight? I'm like, do you know,

when I was successful I am? He's like, you know when women hold microphones? I just like, It's so disgusting. It's such an ick when women think they should be able to speak into a mic. I'm like, yeah, no, totally. You are lucky you're six, too. Okay. Worst fictional boyfriends. And this is a discourse we've seen, and do you think it's in tandem with the article,

or is it just a coincidence? Vogue put out the article. Okay, well, I just was seen like BuzzFeeds and different things like that. Okay, Vogue did this. So Vogue put up an article, the 13 most embarrassing boyfriends in pop culture. Okay, got it. Sorry. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. This is not our, yeah. This is not an original idea. Oh, man. Well, they have all mine on there. Well, listen, it's going to be a lot of the same people. I know, I know.

Actually, I think I have two. I think the most embarrassing boyfriend of all time is Joe Goldberg from you. He's a murderer. Is he? Is he a murderer? Do you watch you? Season one a little bit. Okay, he's not the most embarrassing, honestly.

Yeah. The most embarrassing of all time ever hearts up is Mr. Big. Mr. Big. There's nothing more embarrassing. And I love that we as a society, the, the, the, cultural shift from like, I just want to love like that to realizing what a toxic dumpster fire that was. Yes.

Okay. Close second is burger. Definitely. Burger at least got out of there, though. Yes. Big is worse. Big is 100% worse. But burger's a close second.

And I think burger is tied for second with Alexander Petrovsky. Really? Petrovsky because he just wanted to be number one. Yeah. I think he didn't really show her a lot of care and he moved her to Paris and kind of abandon her. I think that that relationship would have been better, which is somebody who didn't have any career aspirations, somebody much younger that just wants to support somebody, have kids, take their money. Okay, big question for you. I want to do one more sex in the city.

I want to ask you who you think is worse. Richard Wright or Trey McDougal. I'm sorry, it was embarrassing that Charlotte never fucked him before she married him. And I hate to blame the woman, but Charlotte, that's embarrassing. You didn't see if that dick worked. Different things were. So Charlotte was being embarrassing. She's the embarrassing boyfriend.

No, like, she's the, it's embarrassing to have a boyfriend girl. Richard is only embarrassing because he cheats on her, right? Yes. He was just spent all other things considered he was fine. And then Trey, he was like a crazy mama's boy. I think I'm going Trey. He's trying Trey is worse. I think who I think should be more embarrassed is Charlotte, because Richard was hotter and richer.

She should have fucked him before the wedding. Yes, she should be embarrassed. I can't decide. Honestly, any man that lets their mother just walk up into their house when we are home. Yeah, Bunny. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah, Trey is such an ick.

Trey's an ick. Warner from Legally Blonde. Nice. That's a great one. Not disputable, though, in any way. You know, Warren, obviously just terrible. Well, that's the thing. I like the ones that are new to the zeitgeist in bad boyfriends, which is Ross Geller.

I love that you said that. There is a real discussion about how Ross was such a shitty boyfriend. friend. And like, I saw this cool carousel and elite daily. I mean, we don't need to go through it off. You watch friends, you know, but the list of pros and cons. You weren't such a friend's person. Yeah, no, give me the cons. I need it to be explained a little bit more. Okay. He runs wrote a list of pros and cons about Rachel and Julie. And for Rachel, he wrote just a waitress, spoiled two into her looks. He wrote that about her. And they got back together after that. He dated her sister. People forget that. Oh, what? He was so jealous of her career.

someone wrote Rachel should have gone in Paris and Ross should have gone to hell. I mean, he just couldn't give her a consistent yes, right? Like it was so many years if I can't, I'm not going to choose you. No, Ross was in love with Rachel. I just, the whole time, I mean, then, you know, Emily got in the mix and Julie and that,

but it's like, I just never saw the chemistry. I think it was the most bizarre pairing, and then you see Rachel date Joey and the chemistry was there, and that's who should end up together. Like, I just could never get behind Ross. He just was like in love with her from the time. so young, right? They were like in high school. It felt like it was just a

trophy to him. Yes. Okay. I'm going to hit you with one. I don't know that other people think of this. Adam from girls. Oh, I was going to ask you about girls because I was looking at a few lists and people said Desi. Wait, Adam was who? Adam was driver's name was Adam in the show. Oh, that's right. Okay, right. He just, for the first, like, couple years, he wouldn't, for the first season, he wouldn't commit to her. If she just showed out, I don't think she saw him outside of the home for, like, he had him so annoying. Yes, it's hard to say, like, which one of them was more toxic. Team at him.

Well, people were saying Desi. And then he ends up dating her best friend in the world of breaking them up. He was just an asshole. Yeah. These worst boyfriends to me are not the outright assholes. Yes. They are the guys that we were supposed to think were decent guys. And now the wool has been pulled back.

What is it? Yeah. The wool is no longer over our eyes. Now I see. And we're like, oh, gross. But Desi left his girlfriend was cheating on, cheating on his girlfriend. Marnie for like a year before they got together and he only left his girlfriend because she kind of found out broke up with him. Okay. All right. Two kind of deeper cuts from our

childhood teenage years, Dawson and Seth from the OC. And people are saying he wasn't great, but I didn't really watch the OSC. I know. Well, I watched it live one time. Like I watched it through when it was on air. I believe I was in college. Shashonk is a huge OC guy and I showed him this, these memes. And he was like, no, he was the worst actually. There was a Thanksgiving. He had like Summer and Rachel Bilsson, he had another girl there. Like, he was kind of a shitty boyfriend. Of the summer I turned pretty guys, which one do you think is worst? Just like both.

Okay. I'm just Team Steven, Belly's brother. Just neither. Oh. Yeah. I think he's a good boyfriend, actually. Stephen and Taylor and not Jeremiah or Conrad. But people are saying more Jeremiah.

But that was like not a hot take during the season. Always been talk about Nate from Devil Wars Prada. It was not terrible to me. I know. I rewatched it recently because it was this whole shift. It was like, we didn't really have a problem with him back then. And then it was like this discussion about Nate being the real villain because he didn't really support her career. And then I watched it recently and I was like, he wasn't that bad.

I think he was bummed when she was like a slave to her job. Also, like she went to work for a publication that she talked shit on all those people, that publication, people that want to work there, these fashion girlies. And I think he was like, you don't take this seriously. You've changed. Why would I take this seriously? Now you're asking me to take this seriously. But like, we have been on the same page this whole time that this is dumb. Yeah.

And she started to care about these things. She thought were shallow before and the way she was looking and presenting herself. And I mean, yeah, she had a glow up. But I don't think Nate's the worst, I guess. I don't at all. All right, I'm going to throw a cartoon in here. Okay. And we can do Disney all day.

But I think the worst Disney guy is Eric from The Little Mermaid. He liked her because she couldn't talk. She had no voice and he was like, that's my girl. Yes, like she was willing to give up her singing voice to be with him. And her whole family and everybody that she knew and he was like, do it. Exactly. Yeah, Eric was pretty bad. He's my number one worst.

Okay. I told you we're not going to do any Aladdin slander on this podcast. No, I could do beauty at Gaston. Obviously, that's an arguable. The Beast, also not great. Also not great. Wait, what did he do? He was just going to keep her there.

Yeah, you're right. He was locked her in a cage or something. Controlling for sure. Okay, some of the other ones from this article are hilarious. Aaron Samuels, obviously, from the mean girls, but people said Michael Scott. This article is ridiculous. Am I still in the right article?

Elon Musk. I don't know. I don't think this is the right article. What are you reading? The 13 most embarrassing boyfriends in pop culture and the final one is on. Elon Musk? I thought we were doing fictional. He's in there.

How did Elon Musk get in here? Okay, and I'm going to just throw one in. Again, I thought we were doing fictional, but Blake from selling sunset, he just really takes the cake. That is the most embarrassing boyfriend I've seen in a while on television. That guy could be a hundred billionaire, and that would be the most embarrassing person that you could ever date. Honestly, without the money, less embarrassing. A person that doesn't know where Boston is has never tried a vegetable before. If you don't have access to vegetables in the internet, fine.

Yeah. But this guy is too rich to not know what broccoli in Boston is. Yeah, you've rejected the access you've been giving in this world. Okay, but that is like on-screen cringing. So he's my top. Yeah, I'm with you. Number one. Okay, well, I think that covers it.

And, you know, you guys do you. Whatever you want to do, you want to have a boyfriend, you want to get a pre-nup, you want to start a stand-up career, start a stand-up. I can't recommend performing for our audience enough if you can. Yes, exactly. So we hope you guys enjoyed it. I hope you have a great Thanksgiving. Yes, happy Thanksgiving. We are so thankful for you guys.

We just love you. We hope you have safe travels and a calm holiday season with the family. Yes. We're here for you. Oh, Ashley, you can DM her your family drama. Yes. If you guys have family drama and you're hiding out in your childhood bedroom, just give me the tea.

Okay. So girls got to eat.com. You guys can get tickets to our Newark holiday show at GirlsGotterEat.com. Girls Got Eat Podcast at Instagram and TikTok. I am Ash Hess. is reina.greenberg. Watch that space and subscribe with YouTube. Share this episode with a friend. And we'll see you next Monday. Have a great holiday and a great weekend, guys. Bye.