Girls Gotta Eat - Why Men Don't Understand Women with Professor Chesko

Episode Date: August 11, 2025

This one may ruffle some (male) feathers, but that's par for the course with Professor Chesko – award-winning communications professor, podcaster, husband, father, and feminist. We talk with him about the manosphere and why men taking advice from other men is such a problem. We're chatting about why (some) men have it all wrong when it comes to women and money, men pursuing women when they don't actually understand or respect women, and men who only date super young women and why. Chesko tells us about his haters and why they call him a "pick me," but also how he's been able to have productive conversations with some of them in the DMs. We are also going off about all the ridiculous stuff that's considered "gay" in those toxic corners of the Internet, and then we break down some bad behaviors like ghosting, breadcrumbing, and other red flags. Before our guest joins us, Rayna shares two crazy things that happened to her before and on a flight, and Ashley's bachelorettes are beginning. Enjoy! Follow Professor Chesko on Instagram at @thespeechprof and listen to his podcast Mr. Pick Me and the Manhater. Follow us @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for more. Thank you to our partners this week: Shopify: Go to https://shopify.com/gge and start building your own empire today. Rocket Money: Cancel your unwanted subscriptions at https://rocketmoney.com/gge. Bilt: Get points by paying rent at https://joinbilt.com/GGE. Quince: Get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order at https://quince.com/GGE. Live Conscious: Get 15% off at https://liveconscious.com with code GGE. Liquid IV: Get 20% off your first order at https://liquidiv.com with code GGE. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's getting to the point. I think social media is amplifying it so much where the things that are not manly are absurd. This podcast is a dear media production. Hi guys. Hi guys. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Welcome back. Rainie, you've been living in your denim culott.

Every damn day. Okay, you see them twice this week, but tell me the last time you saw them before this. A week before that twice. You just can't stop, won't stop. I love it. love them. And a flip-flop. You did not use to show your toes. I mean, you're a new woman. She's a different girl these days. Like a year ago even, if you would have been like, Ray to Greenberg, the next year, this time. Thighs in, toes out. You're going to be in a knee

length, denim short, and a flip-flop? You would have been like, bitch, please. It's the summer of free the toe. Okay, toes are having a real summer. Well, I didn't ask you, you had a band-aid on your toe yesterday. I, girl. We didn't address it. Why was there a... I cut my toe. I don't know how in Denver. Like, we were going to brunch. We had taken scooters there. I was wearing a sock and a sneaker. And we went to softa. And my sock like came off in my shoe.

Like, you know, like slides down the worst feeling in the world. So I sat down. I went to like take my shoe off and put my sock back on, slide it up over my heel. And I was like bleeding out in my, my sock. I'm like exaggerating. But like the toe of the sock was like soaked in blood. Which toe is it? This toe.

The big toe. Is it possible that your little toe cut your, your toe next to it cut it. Your toenails aren't that long. You need a pedicure. No, like, no, Brandon, it's so bad. Stop. We've been through this.

It's not even a funny bit anymore. Don't. They grow at different rates. Like, one of them looks like a French manicure. You think these are all that haven't been snipped? I got to be cutting them because they would give me, I wouldn't be able to fit my shoes. I have to cut my toenails so often. Like, I don't know what it is.

Nothing on my body grows faster than my toenails. I just, a gel pedicure. I mean, the polish lasts for three years. So it's like, I'd be like, but I've like, but I, but I, But I somehow, so somehow sliced my toe, didn't recognize it. Put on shoe, sock, took a scooter, went to brunch, bleeding out the whole time. You rolled in here with the brightest band-aid I've ever seen yesterday.

So anyway, guys, send me thoughts and prayers. Send me healing thoughts and prayers. Yeah, but it's summer free the toes. Flip-flops really had a... I'm really proud of you. Thank you. I mean, I have ugly feet, and it is my worst quality. Like, my worst physical quality.

Name a worst physical quality on me. You can't. I think you're... Everything is beautiful on you. But if I had to pick a thing, it is them. I've always said if a man can love my feet, that's how I know he loves me. If he's like, they're so cute, that's how I know he loves me. Well, I've said this before, but you had an ex and he wanted to know what he should do for your birthday.

And I told him to get you like a bagel spread and all this stuff. And I told him to come on your feet. I said, make her think you love her feet. Like he decided to do none of it, didn't he? We went to dinner and he forgot. his wallet. So I had to get the restaurant to comp the bill and come back. Can we just talk about the whole forgetting of the wallet? When he forgot his wallet on my birthday, thank God we were at Ozatar in New York City. One of mine Nationalese's favorite restaurants and we know the

owner and he was going to comp the check anyways, I guess. And I was just like, I miss Osatar. Oh, me too. I was just like, you got out of this easy. My fiance lost his wallet. It ended up being at work, but he lost his wallet, which I had bought him, which was Goyard. So that was my main concern, and I made that very clear. How do you know your clothes? You know your best friend's fiance's wallet brand. No, because I had to go fucking wait in line. I had to send the car on.

I was one fucking on rodeo waiting in the one in one out line, and you were just watching me from your Jeep. That's crazy that anybody would know your, your part. partner's wallet brand. But like, it's not, though. Like, you're my best friend. And obviously you were like, what are you getting him for Christmas? And I was like, I'm fucking dropping a stack on this dumb little wallet.

Right after Botox. When he told me he like lost his wallet again, it turned up. Like, I had to be like, do I stay true to myself and let him know the main concern is the wallet? Definitely. If I lost my wallet. You can get a new license. You can get a new credit card.

Yeah. I'd be way more upset about the wallet. It's not a passport. That would have trumped the wallet. but you can get new stuff. The wallet, you're not going to get another one of those. I didn't insure this wallet. I insured this wallet.

But it was one night out, because he usually pays when we go out. It was one night out that I paid for everything. It was just like, I was like, was this the plan? It was the most expensive place. He saved like 50 bucks. We went to like a comedy show. Okay. Let's talk about our partners and we'll get into it.

All right. Thank you to Shopify. Go to Shopify.com slash GGA and start building your own empire today and rocket money. cancel your unwanted subscriptions at rocket money.com slash gge and built get points by paying rent at joinbuilt.com slash gge. And thank you to quince. Get free shipping and 365 day returns on your next order at quince.com slash gge. And live conscious, get 15% off at liveconscious.com with code gge. And liquid iv.

Get 20% of your first order at liquid iv.com with code gge. Let's just do a quick update. So last week we talked about this DM we got from a listener about her fiancé going to Vegas. It was so unhinged. And as was Chad GPT's response to Raina in her voice. And we talked about it with Ian Finance and it was hilarious. And if you missed it, definitely go back and listen. But just the TLDR is this woman found a message that her fiancé had sent to Chat GBT

GBT asking if he should not wear underwear in Vegas. So when he's getting lap dances, he can bust quicker and save money. JashyPT broke down the math. But as we worked through it, the three of us, we were like, this probably was a joke. And it was probably like, you know, sometimes like in a group chat, like, you'll write something like kind of snarky and you'll write it and then screenshot it and send it to your friend. And not send it. You got to be really careful. It's a risky move.

It's the scariest moment of my day. And I said, have you ever sent by accident? I've never sent it by accident. I'm never sent it by accident. I'm so careful when I do this. But like, it's almost like he did. this to show his friends to be funny. Oh, I like that call. Yeah. So she did give us an update. I had asked, like, we want more details. And she said, she confronted him about it. She said, I don't know. He said

it was a joke. In his defense, he didn't have any clean underwear in his drawer. So I don't know when he devised this joke or plan, but I went and got him some out of the dryer. And he packed one pair for the weekend. The whole weekend. And then he was like, I'm not going to need these because you know what I'm doing. I told him, ew, and that would be, would be so uncomfortable and I put more in his bag. I do think it was a joke. I hope. I did not take it as a joke because that whole exchange earlier, the whole thing is so embarrassing. Oh, my God. Also, one pair of underwear doesn't prove anything to me because men are just gross. And they would wear one pair of underwear all weekend. Like, women are just, we're just here to like make sure you guys like stay alive.

Yeah. And again, like, our whole thing is always like, is your relationship great and healthy outside of this one thing that embarrassed you, then great. But if it's bad and he lies to you and you feel like he's dishonest and you can't trust him, then don't marry him. So she can make that decision for herself. I think you're right. I asked Shopify to some ridiculous stuff. There's all this stuff about whether that's like shareable now, like whether your searches can be shared to Google and turning this toggle on and off.

And I am still on the, on team, I don't, I don't chat GPT any questions that I wouldn't mind having shared. We want to do like a whole AI. episode about different things. But I just assume anything you're typing or speaking or doing at all on any device is out there in the world. Obviously it is. The thoughts you have, you get served an ad about them moments later. Literally.

You were telling me about this bra the other day for smaller breasts and just verbally telling me about it and I got an ad for it yesterday. And it's certainly not because they went through my camera roll and saw how big my boobs wore. It's just more. I was telling you about it. Yeah. My ads are an attack. It's not all wedding stuff now?

It's mostly aging stuff. It's mostly like gray hair, crepey skin, saggy titties. And I'm like, yep. Drippy knees. Yep, yep, yep. I buy everything. Losing all your hair. Nipples point to the ground.

Seriously. Yeah. So they get me. My explore page on Instagram, which not that I'm usually checking it for content, but like you hit your search, whatever. It was all wedding for so long. And it was just like a no...

After I bought my dress, it was just all wedding dresses for a while. I had to try to like clear that shit out. No, it takes a while because when I was furnishing my house, it was hundreds of ads for home furnishings and renovation companies, lighting. I mean, there's no end to the amount of shit they'll serve you. And it took me months to get my shit out.

Yeah, like Instagram is so delayed. Like TikTok is immediate. TikTok is like, you search one thing. here's 20 videos. And we forget what you searched last week. You can't add up on like break up TikTok. They're like, oh, you want one of these? Here's 19 of them. TikTok is scary. Like I don't look up anything. I don't want that to be my whole algorithm. It knows what I need though. Sometimes I just need some mantras. Like don't text them, sis.

And then I'll get like 15 of them. Okay. Just a quick life update. So I am in Charlotte and Atlanta this week, Thursday and Friday. They're both sold out. So sorry. You missed out. No. So I can't wait to see. All you guys there. so long since I've been to, since we've been to Charlotte. Since the zone? No, we did one of the things. We did the film war a few times. It's been so long since we've been in it.

Well, actually, yeah, so I'm going to the comedy zone and I actually love that club. And we first played Charlotte there. We had a blast. Do you remember that charcutory board they gave us? Yes, they go all out. No, it was not. It was these little pepperoni cups. It fucking slapped is what it did.

It was a silver serving tray that they put, they put plastic wrap over it. I think about every day. And I can't wait and they better have that for me. Like, I was talking with another comic about the comedy zone. Like, they really treat you so well. I love the zone. So I'll be in Atlanta. And then it is the first of my like bachelorets.

I say that in quotes. I just don't want them to all feel like bachelorette and. I think you should lean in. Yeah. I'm done with you not laying in. They're fine. This is my first bachelorette. And this is with some of my Atlanta friends and my college girlfriend.

So again, I just had to kind of divide up my friends. because there's so many. And this will be like, you know, the southern, southern girlies. Well, you know, I like, you and I've talked about this recently, like having one huge bachelorette and a couple small ones. And I like the idea that you have, like, a more focused group. Most people know each other. You, like, actually get to feel like you spent time with people.

And listen, I know that everybody doesn't have an infinite amount of money in time to travel. Like, two bacheloretts is not, like, plausible for everybody. But, like, it's nice to have a more focused group. and I don't know, I just, I find it more enjoyable. Yeah, whatever you want to do is fine. If it's your dream to do a thing with 20 girls, fucking do it. I just, I feel like this like 10-ish 12 is like I'm tapping out. I can't, I don't want to run around with 15 girls.

And my list of like people that I would invite to my bachelorette, like was 30. So I was like, I kind of need to do two to three. Do I count as two people? Well, you're coming to two of them. Yeah. But 30, am I like number like 29 and 30? You're on that person. 30 and 31.

It's hard to remember to count yourself into stuff. I know. I just kind of did this with my college girlfriends. It was like, I'm already going to be there. They're going to come to the show. And then we have a fun little weekend in Atlanta planned. And I got this great house. And so that's going to be really fun.

And then heading straight to Delaware after that. And I'll be there for the week. And then another bachelor next weekend. I'm so excited. We're really doing it. I'm just like so excited for all the activities. So we're going to do this game and we'll recap it after we do it. We're not going to give it away.

And also, we don't know exactly what's going to happen. It is the thing I'm most excited about, even more than my special or my wedding, is this game we're going to play. Raina has been in charge of it. Like, you've really been organizing it. You just, I mean, you know how do you want to do it? Yeah, it's an idea I came up with and we'll report back. I'm having a blast. We should, like, live stream it.

Some of the stuff is so crazy. Like, I don't know that our friends would want that getting. Like, a lot of them are married. I don't think they want that stuff getting out there. No, no, no. I am particularly impressed by the married ones. And just so you, I guess, I thought that I was going to be like, I'm going to blow all you bitches out of the water. All you girls have been married all these years.

And I'm a slut. Okay. So we're teasing too much, but we'll talk about it 100% after in a couple weeks. Okay. So, Raina, you have a story. So we were in Denver this weekend, which was so fun. Me and Andrew Collin. Andrew and I opened for you at your shows at Denver Comedy Works.

Oh, my God. It just was so much fun. That room. It's the best and loudest comedy club. It takes you by surprise. There was one show, I think it was Friday when I came out and that was so loud. It, like, jolted me. Like, every show was amazing, but.

It has you up there, me specifically, being like, am I the funniest person that's ever been alive? Yeah, if you bomb there, you have to quit comedy. It's like a- You cannot. It's just, that's the rule. No, it's like a single cute guy coming to one of our live shows and not getting laid. Yeah. Like, you should quit trying to get. pussy. If you can't get later, a girl's got to eat show. But yeah, it's, I mean, I think that we all

did an amazing job, obviously. Of course. Yeah. You absolutely crushed. And you had such a fun set, and it just got better every time. And we had four shows. And so it was just, like, so much fun to see you up there and really, like, work the crowd and get into your little crowdwork things. It's really fun. I think people are surprised by it. And I have to have self-talk. Because people were like, somebody sent me this message that was like, maybe you have like a side gig. It's like, Ashley's opener. And I was like, do you guys understand? I've done hundreds of live shows, each one of them for like two hours. I write a set, we improvise.

People come on and off the stage. I think standup is very hard and it's his own skill and I don't do like an hour of stand-up comedy like you. But I'm a performer and have been for seven years. It would be crazy if I couldn't do this. Yeah, I know. Like I always, people understand the difference, but there is a little part of me that's insulted on your behalf when they're like, Raina, you should do comedy.

And it's like, she's been doing comedy. And it is different to go up there with your podcast co-host. And it's different for me in terms of the way I feel about it and even prep for it. But it still is just like, yeah, you have been speaking on stage, telling stories, writing punchlines and jokes for a long time. People don't see it as that. And I understand that. And yes, if you want to get technical about it. But I'm really proud of it.

Oh, my God. Yeah. I would love to do more of it. I think it was just like really fun. Yeah. Okay. And you were great. You did amazing.

So did Andrew. He crushed. But, okay, you have this story. Okay, so you know, we love like airport and airplane stories. So I have one airport, one airplane story. Something happened to be the airport that has never happened in my entire life. I don't even believe this is like a thing. So Andrew and I went to-

Obviously what happened at Denver. At that fucking airport. Yeah, Denver Airport. It's like Illuminati, the horse, the whole thing. We looked it up. I think it is the busiest airport in the country. More than Atlanta? Atlanta might be biggest, but like more people go through Denver every day.

Yeah, I actually want to look that up too. Okay. Andrew and I, just to like, paint the picture, the lines were, so long. You go round and round and round and round for so long and they split you into 16 sublines at the end of that line. We didn't have any lines. You didn't? What did you fly back on? We flew on United. You did? And it was six o'clock in the morning. I couldn't believe how long these lines. And it didn't take super, super long, but it's your volume. We didn't see that at all. But we had a weird 3.30 is a weird time. Anyway, I didn't think 6 o'clock in the morning would be that busy. It was really

busy. So just so you understand how busy it was. So I brought a carry-on. All I had in the carry-on was like three pairs of jeans, two T-shirts. I had a makeup bag, a toiletries bag, which is not my normal toiletries bag, not that much in it. It was just, I was taking one shower. I was doing one hair shower. Yeah. And then I had my skin

care. So not that much stuff. And all of them are under three and a half ounces or 4.2, whatever the fuck it is. Everything was under that. So we get to the front and they flagged my bag and they pulled it and the guy opens and he goes, it's a lot of toiletries. And I was like, yeah, everything is around two ounces or less.

And he was like, it's the volume of toiletries you have. And I was like, what? And he goes, one liter per person. And I go, leader. How do you know, are you eyeballing a leader? Right. Are you doing the math? And he's like, it's too much stuff.

So I take my makeup bag out and I put it in my purse. And I go, how about is this okay? And he goes, makeup counts. It's one liter per person. Makeup counts. This is not. My eyeliner pencil counts. So I was like, what?

So I'm with Andrew. I was like, well, can my friend take some of this? And then it's dibed up. And he goes, now I know you're a couple. And it's one liter per couple. No, we didn't. That's not real. And I go, this is not a thing.

And by the way, I flew here on this airline with the exact same amount of stuff. So, no, that's irrelevant. The amount of stuff I fly. I mean, you and I travel for a living. Like, I have never been early days. in a bag, this and that, whatever. Like, I travel with tons of toiletry, tons. Tons.

I have a huge, like, bag full of it. They're all the right size, but tons. I went around Europe with twice this amount of stuff. And I've never been flying. In how many years? I look to the guy, I go, I've... 20 years? I go, I've been to a hundred-plus airports.

I have never heard this before. And he, it's one of those... I look at Andrew. This is so rare that I'm actually at a loss. I look at Andrew. I go, what do I do? And the guy was like, you can go back out and go through security and check your bag.

And I was like, so we can get on the plane. It just can't get on with me. And he was like, that's the rules, ma'am. What do you want to do? And I'm like so mad. I'm like, so hot my body. Was he telling you to like throw some stuff out? Yeah, so just throw some stuff out.

So I'm like, okay. But how do you know it's over? Like Andrew goes, what, you're just going to eyeball it. You know how much a leader is. So I go, okay, you throw my shampoo, my lotion, my body wash, my conditioner, all that. Throw that up. Here's the thing, though.

So let's just picture a liter. A two liter is a giant thing of Coke from when we were kids. A liter, a half of that, I know for certain all your stuff would have filled half of a two-liter bottle. Like with room to spare, I know all your stuff was under a liter. And now that I know that that's the limit, I know my stuff is always under a little. That's a ton of liquid. I've never heard of this before. And so he turns around, I take the makeup bag and I slip it in my purse.

And he just forgets that this exists. Oh, shit. So I start pulling stuff out, my pills, my ribs. razor. He's like, these aren't liquids. It doesn't count. I'm like, what do you want me to do, brother? And he's like, if you could fit all of your liquids from this one bag into the main bag, then you can go through. That's not even, that doesn't make you sense. I was like, it's still the same amount of stuff. What are you saying to me? I was like panicking. I was going to miss this flight. I was so fucking tired. I'd slept for like four to half hours. But he did like let me

through. He forgot about the makeup. I've never heard of this in my entire life. I guess there is technically that limit, but when I really think about how much a leader is, it's significant. You'd have to have to have a full suitcase full of liquids. I used to split up my two, like my makeup bag with my other toiletries bag and like my carry on and my roller just in case. And then I stopped doing it because I've never once been questions about this. Never. I mean, you and I have traveled a lot more than most people. I've never heard of it. There did used to be those rules and they wanted you to have some early days it would like take it out, put it in a freezer, zip lock bag. That hasn't been a thing in so long.

I know, it was crazy. And the airport is like the one place I won't like pitch a fight because it's like, what are you going to do? No, they'll just put you in like detainment. Yeah, I mean, it's the peak of like follow the rules and fly or don't follow them. Just let me know what you're going to do. Right. Yeah. Didn't you hear someone say that on a play?

She said follow the rules and get on this flight or don't follow them and don't fly. You just let me know what you're going to do. And I was like, that's how the airport is. Oh, my God. So I did get on the flight. And then I had this interesting experience. I just wondered like what you thought about it. So this woman, I'm sitting next to her and I'm trying to get my bag up and I put my smaller

bag down and she was like, oh, do you want me to put it on your seat? And I was like, sure, it's nice. She's maybe a little bit older than us. And I sit down. I notice she has just like all the things. She has like a neck pillow, headphones, a fan. She's sanitizing everything around her. She's just really engaged with the community around her.

She looks at her friend. She's like, I have compression socks if you need any. Oh, my God. I love that. And I don't know, she's just like fussy with everything. thing. And I'm like falling asleep. I'm in a tank top. I'm freezing. I actually meant to buy a sweatshirt but didn't have time. So you got to bring that blanket scarf. You always make fun of me. You got to bring your shawl. I was like, I really wish I had. I traveled with a blanket scarf

of a shawl. When you put it on, I didn't even laugh at you out loud. I like laughed across the hour. I saw you put on your little blanket. But I put on, I was wearing a tank top. I meant to buy a sweatshirt, but I ended up time. So I was like actually freezing and I was like trying to go to sleep. And as I'm like falling asleep, they came by with these like cinnamon buns, which were gross. And I hear her say to the girl next to me say to the flight attendant, she's sleeping, but give me an extra one for her. So that when she wakes up. And I was like, that's so cute. Wait, how old was this woman? Maybe 45. Okay. It's like a mom. Yeah. It was it was. It was mom vibes. Yeah. And then I'm half awake. I open my eyes and I look at it and she goes, I noticed you're shivering. And she goes,

they have blankets in the cabin and she flags the first. Can she come on the road with us? Is this our tour manager? She flags the flight attendant down. And I go, thank you so much. Like, I'll handle this. And she goes, excuse me, I saw the blankets. Can you give her one?

I put the blanket on. I was so comfy, cozy. I went right to sleep. I'm glad to know blankets are back and they don't always have them. They got rid of the blankets during COVID. And like, it's a toss up whether they'll have them or not. United did not have screens, but they had blankets. New United plane.

We flew back. We flew back on a new one, yeah. Oh, the screen was big. Nice. It was nice. Yeah. Yeah, I had a good United experience. I hate to say it.

I went in the new lounge. Paid for it. I was like, I got to see that lounge. Because I'd seen a TikTok about it. I was like, I got to get that lounge. We paid for it. But I just, it was so nice. Yeah.

When she asked the lady for the food, I was like, my first initial reaction was like, mind your own business about like what I'm doing. And she gave me the blanket thing too. I was sort of like, really? Why is she involved with like what's going on with my body? And then I was like, this is the nicest person and so unlike me. Yeah. I feel like it's the New Yorker and me that's like, mind your own business about someone else's body,

what they're doing. Like I would never, you're right, it's very motherly. Like I would never try to like parent another adult. It's none of my business. If they're cold, they'll flag somebody. But like I had such a nice experience on this plane because of her. It was thoughtfully doesn't even cover it. I know.

It is, you know, I'm thinking of someone like my sister-in-law. who would think all those things. I'd wonder if she would act on them. I know for certain that Stephanie would be like, ah, the passenger next to me is sleeping. Maybe she'll want to Sim and Roll. Oh, she looks cold. Like that's her natural instinct.

I'm curious if she would actually act on it. That's an interesting choice. I'm wondering what that woman is like in real life. Like, I'm wondering if it's like everyone loves her. She's the mom of the group. She's always got everyone covered. Or everyone is like, Carol is so annoying. It's so much.

When she, like, yelling. I was held across at her friend. Like I brought extra compression socks. That girl just kind of rolled her eyes. Oh no. She was like, I've had enough of this. She's like, Carol, get out of here. Shut the fuck up.

I do think it's a lot. Yeah. But you're right. Somebody who is that thoughtful, those personality traits don't marry together. Somebody who's going to like be, I don't like type A. It's just, it's really assertive to flag the flight attendant down for a blanket. Yeah. For a stranger.

Okay. Well, that is crazy that that happened on the flight. You need to write a letter to Christy Gnome and tell her. I did be like, ma'am, I thought we were done with this. I thought we were done with shoes. Like, I thought we were all just like together. Yes. Well, speaking of liquids, liquid IV, you guys.

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All right, guys, we are very excited to welcome our guest today. He is an award-winning communication studies professor. He co-hosts the podcast, Mr. Pickmey and the Man Hater, which offers comedic and insightful commentary on internet culture and dating dynamics. He has amassed over 2.5 million followers under his handle, the speech prof analyzing topics like masculinity, emotional intelligence, and modern relationships. In 2025, he was honored with the Educator of the Year Award at the cheer choice awards, recognized for his impactful work, both in the classroom and online.

Please welcome to the show, Professor Chesco. Hello. Hello. Hi. Hi, happy to be here. We're so happy to have you. We've been having so much fun with you already. We call you prof.

Prop. Prop, no, don't do that. No, Chesco. We love it. Chesco's fine. Most people know me is Chesco. You told us your own name. We won't announce it, but we're in the circle.

Right. Yeah, you're in the intersection. Yeah, subscribe to the Patreon. About 10,000 of my students. And your wife. And that's it. And the trust train. My kids don't even know.

That's such a funny concept to me. Like, when do you let your children know that you have a name? They still have trouble with it. You know, my oldest is 10 and they still, he's like, no. They know that my real name is that, but they don't like it. Totally. Just dad. That's the idea.

Yeah, like rappers and like, when do they tell their kids? Right. You know, like, that's not my name. Okay. So, yeah, so you're a husband, a father of three. Mm-hmm. A feminist. Yeah.

Have you kind of been like this your whole life? We'll talk about it, what you stand for and what you speak about, and has it been like a lifelong journey? Yeah, I mean, I was raised by a single mom and my grandmother, and they always, my mom is like this old 70s, San Francisco hippie. And she always taught me if you see something wrong in the world, say something about it. And so I, you know, I've always been into it. I ran for prom queen in high school because, so it was very misguided,

but we were breaking the gender norms that anybody could as a 17-year-old. thinking I was doing this groundbreaking thing. Did you win? Well, that's just a long story behind. It was a short story, yes, but I didn't get the award because the people behind it did not think a guy should get the prom queen award. And now in hindsight, I'm like, yeah, it was very special to the person that got it. Tiffany and Jessica and those walls were upset, yeah.

But I get like the point of the gender roles, but people are like, you're taking something away for women. Exactly. So I was like, it's like, misguided as this young guy. And then I went to college and I took a class in feminist rhetoric, which was just learning about feminist theory and all that goes into that. And it just kind of made sense. Everything that talked about the structural systems in our society, about oppression, about intersectional, about how race and class and gender and all these things play into it. I ended up getting a degree in gender and communication as I joined a speech and debate team. I got a full ride to grad school where I studied feminist rhetoric again and where I wrote about hate crimes in World of Warcraft, which is a whole. Like the video game? The video game world of Warcrafted. And so it was, it actually has a lot more to do with social media now than at the time.

It was an excuse to play video games and get a degree out of it. Yeah. But it was just talking about structural systems of oppression and how they function in virtual worlds, which is absolutely applicable to how it functions in social media and how it functions online nowadays. But at the time, it was like, okay, that's fine. I'll play video games for work. I mean, I often think about video games and how, like, violent.

And even the show we were watching, we love it. But the video game they play is like, watch out. Overcompensating. And they're like killing hookers. Have you watched the show? And the show is very evolved. Like it's with Benito Skinner and he's this,

he was in the closet and it's about his journey going to college. And it's very, it's progressive and evolved, but they still play a video game with killing these hookers. But along those lines, that was what I talked about. And we were even going to talk about this, but my thesis was about how when people are behind a mask of the internet, when people have this online,

presence, they do and say really horrific things, and they write it off as, oh, that wasn't me. That's just online. That was a character. That was a character. And you see this in the comment sections. They'll say the really horrific things. And when they're called out on it, well, I don't know you'd see that. I mean, we could talk about this forever.

Right. It's really crazy. Why did you think that? Right. You know, like, it's public. It's so crazy to me. The difference between like a troll account, like a real person who, you know, using their, that's high level.

Your real name, sometimes you're public. Yeah, you meant that. Do you all post your podcast on Facebook? Facebook blows my mind because they'll have their face, their business, their family members linked to it, and they'll say the most horrific things. And why would you do that? Like, there's no, there's no sense to it. And they have no regret about it either. No regrets.

I find so fascinating. It's like, we're really lucky. we don't get like a lot of hate online. But once in the Blue Moon, I'll clap back at somebody and I'll get a DM from them apologizing. Like they were like, some girl told me I dressed bad and I was like, who the fuck asked you? And then she DM'd me and apologized and was like, I was in a really bad place. I'm really, I shouldn't have done that. I'm like, you didn't even mean it and you still felt the need to write that.

My outfit was not good. That's right. I'm sure it was great. But speaking about DMs though, that's actually where I think a lot of the most impactful work I do goes on that nobody sees. I get, because I'll get a hateful DM from, I get a lot of them, from guys that are upset about something I talked about. They'll call me some sort of name and my usual response. But I used to just block them. But then I got interested in bored one day.

And I was like, what did I say that made you so upset? And they're like, well, your video. I'm like, well, what specifically did I say? And they're like, well, you hate men. I'm like, I, this is going to blow your own. I am a man, right? I'm also a father of a son. Right.

I've been raising men. Yeah, I don't, I don't hate men. think the stuff I talk about harms men and women, but when you speak up about anything about misogy or about the patriarchy, God forbid you say that word, or anything that involves something that men are doing, then the assumption is you must hate all men because I didn't say not all men. So to give an example of your content, that Ashley and I really love your content, a lot of it is about, like, I was particularly attracted to this clip that you had where some guy was talking about what it is to be like an alpha man and giving advice to other men and you did a voiceover talking about

Like, why would men take advice from this person rather than women? And I think that some people watch that and they think that you are criticizing all men, but you're just criticizing the tone of that type of man. And what they hear is that you hate all men, which I find interesting. But you just want men to be better. Right. I don't know. I mean, it's not the exact comparison, but we talk about this sometimes with white women.

There's a lot of white women giving us a bad name, you know, their beliefs and their values and the way they vote. and it's just like, we'd like them to be better. We can be angry and talk in a certain way, but, like, ultimately, you want to kind of be a little more gentle and hopefully convince people and, like, have them get curious about their own way of thinking and hopefully, like, change for the better. That's what I hope. And that's exactly it.

And they'll get mad at me. Well, why aren't you calling out women? I'm like, well, I'm a man, right? I have this little experience. I went through what these guys are going through. Like, all the advice they're giving out isn't new. Right. Right. This was the same advice I received over 20 years ago from the pickup artist scene and all these guys, oh, you got to do this X, Y, and Z. It's just repackaged. It's just the exact same thing. And they listen to these guys, taken into your question, because it's easy. It's an easy answer to a complex situation. Yep. Right? Instead of accepting that women are complex individuals with different likes, different turn-ons, different aspirations, they want to know, okay, all women are one thing, one object.

that if I do this one thing or these three things, whatever it is, then that's how I'll get into a relationship. That's really interesting. I never really thought about it. This alpha male advice, it is giving you advice on how to date one very specific type of woman that wants that very specific type of man. And I don't, the toxic alpha male,

I don't want that, nothing is attractive less to me. And why would we take advice on this for a one size, it's like a one person? But I love what you said about it. It's just easy. I mean, masculinity is complex. Dating is complex. And so that's why I love people like you or Dr. Terry Real,

I was just listening to recently on the Daily. Like this advice, it's like, it can be hard. And it can be hard to be vulnerable and self-reflect. So sometimes it's easier to just be like, I don't know, I'll just be Andrew Tate. Right. And they think, okay, so if I do, if I put enough tokens in the machine, then I'll get a prize of a woman. Uh-huh. Right?

And that's really what it comes down to. too, because it blows their mind. Because I remember we talked a little bit before about the word pick me. You said people do kind of call you a pick me. But that's actually the title of our podcast, Mr. Pick Me and the Man Hater, came from a hate comment saying, all right, Mr. Pick Me and the Man Hater. And we're like, that's the greatest. Shut up.

Yeah, literally. They called us that. And we're like, we need to do a podcast. I love it. I mean, we have capitalized on the things people have said. Like someone once wrote an email and said, I literally don't care about your stupid live shows. And we made, I literally don't care. merch and titled The Tours Stupid Live Shows.

Anyway, back to me. No, but it's true. They give the great. I'm like, that was so creative. So smart. I don't want to go on a tangent, but if you'll let me. Go for it. One of my favorite, I'm going to make merch out of this.

Somebody said, you're not an alpha male. You're an eat a lot of pie mail like PI. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, that is brilliant. I can't even be upset. That is great. Well, the meanest DM someone sent to me is, it's still going viral, weeks of going viral, comments every day. And this girl went on a rant that she called me a big fupitwit. She called me a

trash horse bitch. She said my vagina was long. And the people in the comments are like, she really got creative. It's just like, we need the merch. Thanks for putting an effort. At least if you're going to come at me, put a little effort into it. She spent some time on that message. She kept going. Yeah. Okay, Mr. Pickme and the Mandator. Love that. So they called us that. And it's, it upsets them often. And it's the joke in our intro to our podcast is that they call me Mr. Pickme, I've been married for 15 years. We've been together 17 years. Like, I've already been picked, right?

There's not, was a, there's no point. I'm not trying. That's the point of it is the idea, it's performative. Well, she's not going to fuck you, bro. I'm like, I don't know. Like, we have three kids. She's done it at least three times. That's so true.

It's such a weird thing. Like they assume, and it's all from videos that are literally just saying the most basic things like women are people. Right? I was like, all right, pick me. All right. Buddy, you shouldn't emotionally manipulate women. All right, pick me, cook, right?

White Knight to the hero. It's absurd. And that's where it was go back. I mentioned earlier the DMs. I'm like, what did I say that made you feel that it's so absurd? What was this outrageous thing that you thought was the most horrific thing that made me a pick-me? And they're like, that's what they're talking about. Oftentimes, at least in your clips, you're literally just commenting on things that other people have said

and breaking it down. And so I'm trapped in this algorithm where I get served as really toxic stuff sometimes about like by the year 2030, 45, but you can give me this that, but 45% of women will be like single, unmarried, no kids. And it was like talking about how women are the problem essentially.

And you broke down that clip, talking about, let's look at these stats, let's look at why, let's talk about it. Like you can't just blindly feed the world this stat that half of the women in the world have rejected men and children and then like move along and blame women. And so you're taking things that other people are saying

and just breaking it down. I love the work you're doing in the DMs, by the way. You're doing the Lord's work. A lot of people really wouldn't take the time. And you can change people's minds with a brief conversation, not always. And it's just so funny when we actually think about Pygmy. The whole thing is that you're trying to attract a member of the opposite sex and be chosen. And you're like, I don't need to do this.

Why would I be doing this? I'm actually, and doing this authentically. What would be the other reason? Can I say that's the funniest thing about this whole alpha male scene? Yeah. is that like you like women, gay, right? You're like, you want to spend time with women. All right, pick me.

Like, that's the worst thing in the world. Do you want to be friends with women? You want to be around women? Respect their boundaries. Ew. Girls are gross. It's so true. Like, yes, that whole manosphere hates women.

Yeah. You're the gay ones. Yeah, but I'm the problem because I actually like women because I like being around. I married my wife because I liked being around. her. I was attracted to her because I like women. These people don't want a wife or woman. They want a prisoner. Right. And that's the issue. They want a maid and a servant. They don't want a partner. They want a new mommy. Yes. That's true. They need replacement mommy is what it is.

Absolutely. Okay. So why are men so triggered by this? I mean, especially when you're overall, but even the ones you're talking to personally in the DMs, like let's just start there. Like, what is the issue? I think we are going through a cultural shift. Right. And any, and, cultural shift is going to have a big backlash. You've seen this historically, racially, you've seen it with feminism. You've seen it with all these sorts of things. You're going to have this big backlash. And I think the reality is, not to get too far on the woods, but now that we, you know, with capitalism the way it is and wealth the way it is, it's not enough to just be a man anymore, right? And it's not enough to, and most households don't have a single provider anymore

either. And so they're still expecting the same benefits of when women couldn't have. And bank accounts, right? When they had to pretend they were thankful for these sort of things, because if they didn't, their life was going to be literally impossible. People have this idea that like our grandparents had a better handle on having relationships. No, women just couldn't leave. Women could not get bank accounts until 1979. You just couldn't leave. One of the craziest stats to me is that when no fault divorce was introduced, female suicide dropped by 20% immediately. Yeah, and the Republicans are trying to bring it back. Of course.

Yeah, that's the horrific thing. But that's the world. They like to pretend like, oh, that's when everyone was happy. That's when everybody, that's when things were great. Let's go back to that time. Who was happy? And you find happiness when you don't have options. You know, I grew up in poverty.

You know, and I still had a great childhood, I think, in a lot of ways because I found things that made me happy. I found things that made me. Because the reality is the structural components of it were beyond my control. And so either I just go into depression. which happens, you know, which often very, and even back then, a lot of women were, you know, having to use meds and things just to survive. The lobotomy, that's when the lobotomy came into play. But that's what they're aiming for.

They're like, the things were easier back then. And they were easier back then. They were easier when you have no options. All you had to do was be a paycheck. And they're getting upset because they're not being treated like objects anymore. Right? Men are upset that, like, and they'll say, oh, women only want me for my money. That's what you are claiming.

I mean, you want them to want you for, though. Yes. You're saying, oh, men should be the providers. They should be doing X, Y, and Z. The woman should be in the home. Oh, but why do all these women only want me for my money? Why did you leave me for someone that made more money than I did? But guys are saying this that don't have money.

Right. Well, that's the issue of a thousandaires that wanting, and claiming that women are all gold diggers. Right. Well, where is the gold in the room with us right now? It actually doesn't really matter for you. So that's just that deep rude misogyny? I mean... Yeah, and there was a dating coach that gave advice about how to trick somebody into thinking

you have more money than you do. And then it's not surprising that you also see literally across the board with all these coaches in the manosphere that are talking about how women cheat all the time, right? And if you are only offering money, but then you don't have money, why are you shocked when they seek something elsewhere? Right. Why are you shocked when the person that wanted you for your money? doesn't want you anymore when they find out you don't have money, right?

And then they'll be angry about it and they'll blame women. A lot of that also comes down to the fact that they can't see beyond the idea like, well, I want you. What can I do to get you? Yeah. Like what is it that I can do to, and if the reality is, oh, well, you're interested in somebody that doesn't have it you have, they can't, but I want you. I don't get it.

Why can't I have you? I'm like, well, because we're not, we don't click. Yeah. And, you know, everyone that's gone through dating for more than a year knows that, you know, everyone you go out with is not going to be perfect. You know, just because you're attracted to someone doesn't mean you click. But that when you are not viewing the person as a partner or as a friend as someone you want to spend time with, then you don't understand that. Because she's like, she's pretty though. No, like I'm entitled to her.

And that's where we go down a dark road with being entitled to a woman's body even. But when you talk about Andrew Tate and those type of guys, like they're telling you you're an alpha male. you want something, go get it. You're supposed to be able to have it. And sometimes every once in a while I'll see like a message that a guy sends a woman, she'll make DM it to us. And the tone is really that entitlement that I'm like, I think it's a red flag. Absolutely.

He doesn't think you have autonomy. He just thinks he's deserving of your time. You know, they'll have advice about what she means when she says no. They literally will have how to tell if she actually means no. And the answer should be she said no. That's how you know she means no because she said no. And they'll say there was one video I responded to of a young woman at a bar that was getting angry at a guy. And she was like, you know, I said, no, leave me alone.

What's your problem? And all these guys were like, well, you know, she didn't have to be that mean. She didn't have to be so rude about it. He would have just left? I'm like, would he have, though? Because we hear stories. If she is nice at all, what happens? He'll stick around like, oh, she's playing games.

Oh, she actually wants me because they can't accept. that. And that's why so many women will say, well, I have a boyfriend because they can't accept that it's not enough that you don't want them. It has to be another man that might be a barrier there for you. I mean, do you know how many times I've said that in my life to somebody who was just bothering me? I've had to say that to somebody. I have a boyfriend. No, thank you. Like, no was not enough to, because you're a bitch, you're yelled at. People get aggressive with you. I haven't had a ton of really bad experiences where somebody gets super aggressive, but I've almost always had to say I have a boyfriend. And I was lying.

Well, I didn't like you anyways. Right. I didn't think you were attractive. I was doing you a favor. Then you're presumptuous, but you say I have a boyfriend. I wasn't into, you know? What are you talking about? Remember that guy?

He stalked me. Literally was showing up at my comedy shows. He was in my DMs for years. And then I finally was like, hey, I'm not interested. Like, I just ignored it. And I was like, I'm not interested. And he was like, I was just wanting to be friends. I was like, oh, okay.

Yeah, I can tell. Showing up where I was at. I was just really think, I'm your number one fan. I have a fan club. up for you. It's even weirder. Okay, so we're just going to take a quick break and then we'll get right back into it. I'm telling you guys about Shopify. If you guys have a side hustle, if you have a business that you're working on, Shopify is exactly what you need. You can easily set up your online store and start selling products in no time. Ashley and I've used Shopify

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She should get her back. Okay, let's get back into it. I want to talk about those videos I get served a lot that say like half of women will be single and childless. What is it, 2030? Do you remember what the stats are? Allegedly. It's roughly. I mean, it changes depending on what argument they're trying to make so I don't think the stats are really that genuine as much as they've been repeated so often that now we just accept that they're genuine. So I find it like interesting that those videos they blame women for their expectations of men and that's why women are going to be single. They're choosing to be single because their expectations are so high and you you push back on that. The idea that the expectations are high is absolutely absurd to me because if you actually

know women and I think that goes back to so many men not having women that are friends with them If you've had known women that are dating, you know very well that the expectations are not that they have to have all these sorts of things. And I just, I want to push back a little bit. I think they only will choose examples of women that want all of these things

and then once again apply them to all women. But even the women that want those things, that's fine, right? Same with a man that is only attracted to certain, that's fine. Just don't be a dick about it, right? And it goes for anybody, right? If you're only attracted to someone

that is tall, that's fine, don't be a dick about it, right? If you're only attracted to a woman that is X, Y, or Z. 22-year-old model. Yeah, that's fine. Fine, but, well... That's your preference.

We can get into the whole weeds of the... I didn't say 19. 22. Barely legal is a whole different type of preference. Preferences, and for most things I think are just preferences, right? I do think, just as you brought that up, though, that is the thing that I get a lot of negative

pushback from guys when I'll speak out against someone my age that is dating 18 year olds. And though I will, well, good for him. I'm like, that's so weird. So weird. That's so weird. It really, really is and needs to be studied more. We're like not talking about it enough. Right.

It's not even like it's a happenstance thing. Like I will, I don't think this happens, but I will give that it's possible that there was a situation where there was that you were working with somebody or in a play with somebody and you found love and there's an age gap there and whatever so is life right it's when they're seeking out always always that age group where there's clearly something going on there the metaphor i used this is years ago and on the video about a guy that was like that men only wanted to date 18 19 20 year olds i was like was when i was a i do photography on the side i used to be a professional photographer. When I was starting out, I only liked working with brand new amateur models

because they were just thankful that I showed up. They didn't care that the quality was bad. They didn't care that the pictures weren't edited well. I remember my relationship was my early 20s. I didn't even have the language to call out behavior. That's great. You know, there's like this funny clip that's like, it's a man talking. He's like women in their 30s are actualized and they know what they want and they're confident and they can say the things that they mean and that is why I date girls in their 20s. You know, like, that's this man is here. Is that your photography example?

Yeah, and that's exactly it. Because they can tell if you're bad in bed, they can tell if you have no ambition. They can tell if you, because they've actually have lived experience. They've actually been alive in this world outside of high school and can tell that you're actually just a loser. But like, but I mean, this is a tangent, but what about the guys that are losers? Like, I mean, and that those are just some, also some weird Hollywood people, but like 40, 50, 60 year olds, rich, famous dudes that do it.

I mean, let's not forget that, like, I totally understand the example of you're a fucking loser and someone in authorities is going to call you out on it, but it's just like the whole landscape of that, but that always, again, like I said, just weirdo famous people. But I think that goes back to this, this performance for other men, right? The idea about, the younger, the better. It's not necessarily that they're not a child, because like, I refuse to believe. Yeah. I don't, I don't think I'm weird, but I refuse to believe that they think an 18-year-old is

better looking than an attractive 30-year-old. Yeah. I agree. There's just no... Or a 25-year-old. Even 25. There's just no... But that is absurd to be.

That's all... But what it is, it's impressive. They can say, hey, look, I pulled a 20-year-old. Yeah. I pulled a 21-year-old. It's the same thing with weight. I was talking to... I didn't get permission to share this.

I was talking to a creator at a conference house out recently, and she used to be very overweight, and she said men used to hit on her constantly. They were in love with her, but they just didn't want to... There are other guys to see it. Right. So it's not that the attraction is there, but it's all about the performance of it. And now that she's thinner and more traditionally beautiful, then now it's okay, right? Not because they were less attracted to her before, but because they're less afraid of what the judgment is.

And it's such an absurd thing. Yeah. It's twisted. And my wife, you know, admittedly is stereotypically beautiful, right? But I never thought when I was dating her like, oh, man, the boys are going to love this. I cannot wait so they see this when I post this picture

and they're going to be so excited for me. It was like, she's really fun. She's great. I like her. I have to assume correctly that somebody,

a man, adult man who is seeking out women that are like under 22 is seeking out people that are incapable of calling them out for their adult behavior.

And that's not to say that people that are 18, 19, 20. Jordan and Bill. Oh, well, she's running that show. Bill Belich.

But like I, it's not to say people that age aren't smart, but age is not just a number. It's actually your age and it's your lived experience and there's no alternative to it. And so I have to assume you are seeking people out only because they do not have the agency to challenge you on the way that you are. That's absolutely right. But it's, I mean, we all like our partner to look good. I get off on people thinking my fiance is hot, but if it's not the reason why I'm with him, I'm obviously attracted to

him. But when you really want somebody for those reasons in that validation only, I mean, it's got to be rooted in like the deepest insecurity and you just live in. You just live in. die by validation. And I mean, I guess that makes sense for a lot of the famous people we're talking about. But it doesn't have to be just famous. It's, you know. Anybody. And you've commodified your relationship at that point, right?

You're only dating them because of how they look. It has nothing to do with really and their age. And that's sort of it. Which is why they don't then understand how you can actually like your partner, right? How you can actually be friends with your partner. Right. Right. Because I only got with her because she was pretty because because the other guys liked her.

Yeah. And then after a certain point, then what is that relationship 10 years from now? What does it look like? I'm dying. Look at Scott this. Like, you just trade them in for the next college girl. Yeah, but like, what does it look like in the home? Like, that's what I'm dying to see.

Because I'm, you know, I'd live with somebody. Like, we're together all the time. How do you not enjoy each other's company? How do you not laugh and have fun and have conversations? Like, I'm just, like, you value, you want to be friends with somebody. You want to enjoy his input and his take on how you spend your day. You want to tell him things and hear what he has to say about it. They're not shopping in that.

What does it look like? As I'm saying, I just want to be a fly on the wall. I'm just curious. She's shopping. She's out with the girls. But I think even with attraction of a male partner, right? They always talk about there's only three things women. They want a six-pack, six inches, six figures, right?

It's always those kind of things that they're looking for. And when they, this may shock you. I'm not the thinnest guy in the world, right? But I was never, now I make pretty good money. But when I was younger, when I was in the dating scene, I did not have any money. I made, when I met my wife, when we started dating, I was a graduate student making $13,000 a year. Right. There was no money there.

Right, right. But we had fun together. Yeah. And that didn't, and I, could I take her out to expensive restaurants? No, but she accepted that there were other things I brought to the relationship. You are tall. You're tall. You're good hair.

The six pack is, if you said six pack and it's not that, it's six feet. How tall are you? God. I'm six, five. Oh, shit. Don't even get out of here. No room to talk. Because that's one attribute.

Six-five cancels out bank account. Okay. It does not matter. But, I mean, it's interesting. We're all over the place here. But I rarely hear a woman talk about wanting like a jacked dude anymore. Because it's not women that talk about it. It's other men telling you that they are talking about it.

Traditionally, in my experience. I'm agreeing with you that it's the stare. There was, oh, I can't remember the guy's name. I just did a video about him. Dan Balzarian. Could be shorter. No, no. He's like, fuck, seven.

It was not a bad guy. It was not a, yeah, I know it. It was like some pop star in the UK that everyone was like, you don't know who, I don't know, Samuel Tuppens is? I don't remember his name. But they, he had a picture of him when he was just a fit guy, and then a picture of him when he was just sculpted. And they asked men and women, what do you think is more attractive?

And all the women chose the before, and all the men over when he chose this idea of this fully sculpted. And it's not to say that there aren't women, obviously, that like guys that are tagged. And there's nothing wrong with. that. But the idea is there's all women once again are a monolith and want the exact same thing. If they acknowledge that women are not that way, then they have to acknowledge that the reason that they're single has to do more with the fact that all women are evil. It has to do with

something that maybe there were other things they could have been doing along the way that wouldn't have given them that red flag of being this horrific person that the woman has to cover their drink around because that's what they were told. That's what women like. They like toxic guys. It's so interesting because you have these men telling other men how to be, how to look, how to act, and then they attract these women that they genuinely hate and that like want them for their money or their bodies and then they're mad about that too. And it's like the road, where's the happiness at the end of this toxic masculinity that you're saying you should aspire to? So let's circle back to this whole, all these women are going to be single and childless by this age.

And this can kind of lead us into something that you talk about in your content of men needing women more than women need men. Right. And it's never, it's not that men are useless. It's not the women are useless. And I know you are hearing what I'm actually saying as opposed to what the guys will yell at me in the comments that I'm saying. But I think a big part of it comes down to this and this kind of ties into other than we've been talking about where they don't want to be around women. So the only emotional intimacy they get in their life is their romantic partner. Right? Because the guys that they're hanging out with, it's very surface level. It's very much about once again, this this alpha nism. of like still trying to power yourself or position yourself that is the most powerful one in the group, how impressive can I be, let's talk about X, Y, and Z that are very surface level things, and the only time they get to feel any emotional intimacy, because God knows they're not going to therapy, is with a woman in their life who they're relying on to be their mom, their therapist, and their best friend without ever acknowledging that they like them. And so the reason why you see, you know, the male loneliness epidemic is, you know,

you hear that term all the time. And I do think it's a legitimate thing, but there's just as many women that are single that are, we're not talking about because women have friends, right, that they can actually still talk to. Women have other people in their life that they don't, they aren't fully reliant on men for. And so it goes back to why everything's interrelated. When you're expecting a man to be more than just a paycheck, then they get upset about that because that's the lie that they were told growing up is that that's the rule, as long as they provide a paycheck, they're going to get this woman to be their mom, their therapist, their friend and their lover,

which is such a weird combination of four things. But that's what they're asking for without saying those words in all of these videos. Yeah. And there's so many men that aren't like this, by the way. We can't stress this enough. You're not the only one in the world. I mean, it's truly like that. So it's like, is this just parenting? You know, it's interesting. Like, what do you attribute to the divide? There's a lot of conversations that, uh, in this space. of kind of fit, how do we counter this right now? And it's, you talk about grooming. That's the legitimate definition of grooming is what they're doing.

When a guy, a young guy is like, I want to, I want to work about my, think about my fitness. And all of a sudden, then they're being shown videos from Andrew Tate. Right. Right. Right. Or I got broken up with. I'm feeling sad. Then all of a sudden you're seeing Sneiko or one of these other million, you know, insert generic

name X that wants to be the next adjutantorate there. And so they have this pipeline of information that's being spread and connected to all. all of these things. And the issue, the problem I think comes in is that when you have men in the healthier space that actually do like women, they get this such negative feedback from other men that they stop talking about it. They're like, oh, it's not worth it. I don't want to deal with it.

When the reality is women in this space that are saying the exact same things I am are met with violent reactions. I don't get violent. I get called names. Yeah, yeah. It's so sad. Yeah. It's not, it's not.

but women in the exact same space saying far less than I am are met with like death threats. They'll find their phone numbers, their address. They do really, really horrific things to them. And they're still speaking up because they can understand that it's, it affects them personally. It's a privilege of a man to be able to like, well, I'll be fine. If I don't talk, it's easier if I don't talk about this. So I'm not going to. I mentioned I was at a conference in Washington, D.C. this past week about reproductive health.

And one of the panels I was on is about what role do men have in the conversation about pro-choice, about abortion. And you always hear, well, you're a man, you shouldn't have an opinion, but we know what opinion they're talking about, right? It's about controlling women's bodies. It's about the idea that a group of predominantly white men in a small room can decide what is better for all the women in the country. Any man that is speaking up, though, is going to be met with negative vitriol from other men. because you're not supposed to do that. You're not supposed to talk about these sort of things. And it's uncomfortable.

You know, most men are uncomfortable with the word vulva, right? Or let alone even knowing what that is, right? And so the idea of talking about reproductive health makes them feel icky because they've been told that women are gross. Women have cooties, right? Women are something different. That's their problem when the reality is it's not their problem when it's affecting all of us, right?

It's not just a woman's problem when we exist in a world together that's there. when women are dying in parking lots, right? When we have daughters and sisters and wives and mothers that are also having to deal with the repercussions of this, it's not just a woman's issue. It's a human rights issue. But because it makes them uncomfortable, that's enough for too many guys to just kind of stay silent about it. And it's not having a platform.

It's not going on TikTok and making videos about it. 99% of change is not from a video that I or another person has made, right? It's from hearing a guy saying something at the gym that is really problem and saying, hey, that's fucked up, right? Hey, that's, why do you feel that way? Why are you saying that? And that's why I said some of the most change happens in my DMs, you see the real person in the DMs because it's not performative.

It's not showy. They're no longer, when I'm questioning them, they'll end up apologizing to me because of the fact that it's no longer the eyes of the world seeing them and they're not afraid of it anymore. To your point, like the grooming and that content, that Manosphere type content, comes in it like a vulnerable place. And then there's like a weakness there too. Because there's plenty of guys out there that would be like,

I want to be stronger. I want to get over my breakup and they wouldn't fall victim to that type of thing. So it's just like, I don't know. Like where do we, where do we start? I mean, I'm so happy for that people like Raina's brother and my brother are like having boys. So at least I can like, you know, raise some good ones because it's like, how do we combat this? I don't know. Like, I mean, I think there's men that get served, certain women on the internet.

that are like, oh, men are terrible, and then they feel marginalized, I put a box, like, well, not me. And then they start getting served to the Andrew Tate tone. And they're like, I've found somebody I can listen to him. Look who the president is. Right. You know, men overwhelmingly voted for him because that is their picture of masculinity. Which is so sick.

Terrifying. It's so insane to me because it's like the real men that I know in my life, whether they're family, friends, I mean, the man I'm married, I mean, that are real men that are like secure. and successful and have good relationships with women and their families and have children, like hate Donald Trump. They're sickened by him. You know,

as they all find that interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Like, he's giving us a bad name. My brother said to me once, I was looking at a video of somebody we both kind of know that their whole personality is like working out, looking jacked and like being a man.

And my brother was like, my brother was very masculine, played college football, but worse than finance, very masculine. He was like, I could never hate myself enough to make that. my whole personality. Yeah. I would have used that. That is the greatest. He's funnier than I was annoying.

Both of our brothers are too funny. They're so funny. But it really reframed that for me. Somebody who really needs to make like the way their body looks and acting alpha and being better than people and above them and the true picture of masculinity. Like at their core, like why do you think they need those things that they have to hate themselves at some level? Yeah.

Like I said, it's systemic. It's the same issue. same stuff that's making men feel they can't talk about their feelings are the same thing that's causing them to enact violence and feel like the one feeling they can't talk about is anger, right? Yet the blame that will come out from them, not all men, all right, keep on saying it up to the is the fault of women without acknowledging that it's us doing it to each other, right? It's not, it's not us doing it to each other, but it's us doing it to each other. It's male-on-male crime. It's, you know, growing up and everything you think and feel is one of your peers,

says that's gay, you know, and not wanting to appear to be that way. And it's getting to the point. I think social media is amplifying it so much where the things that are not manly are absurd. I don't know if you saw, I did a whole series last year, literally five different videos on it. And I could have done more about how men are not wiping their asses because that's, they don't want to touch their asshole, because that's gay. And it was the comment sections of, women sharing, let me tell you about this guy I dated, about like, underwear full of, like,

this is, I don't know if you put a warning on this for the video. No, no, no. But underwear just like literally caked and shit. They're getting a guy being on top of a woman and her having like a streak on her. No, no, I'm not okay. It is, I know. This is, this is. What are some other ones?

The way you open a water bottle. There's a, there's a special way you have to open it. And the funny, I made fun of this video. Oh, that's the Republican drinking straws. That's the Fox News. won't shut up about men drinking out of straw. Sometimes you want a straw, grow up. You can't do that.

And I've never personally thought of a straw and thought that's too phallic. That's just, oh man, someone's going to think, we're eating a banana in public, eating a hot, there's all that, I mean, there's, you can keep on going. There's just so many of these weird things that are, they're so terrified of doing because, oh, then people are not going to see me as a man. And really, once again, it's not women. I don't, I'm sure they exist out.

there. There are women that don't like those things. And they'll sign in one video and be like, see, women are terrible because they don't like this thing. But there is nothing hotter, sexier, more masculine to me than a man that is secure in whatever he's doing. I know. Like, why do you think so many women like Harry Styles?

Because he's just going to do him and wear whatever. And it's just like, again, not all women either. I mean, I don't speak for us all. But it's just like, it's just so crazy to me. Because the hottest trait to me is a man doing him and owning it. And like the grossest, most insecure thing is like, I don't want to touch my own asshole because he's gay. It's just crazy.

And even less extreme, the fact that I let my daughters paint my nails because they wanted to paint my nails. And they'll see it on my video sometimes. I don't have them right now. And they'll be like, oh, why would? And no, man, whatever. You would stop your daughter from doing that because real men would teach her that that's not the way men are.

I'm like, yes, because that's good. clearly I'm harming my children by giving them a memory. Yeah. It must be exhausting, right? And you go back to how it harms men, all the things you can't do. All the things you can't do. Like having to think about before I do anything in this world. Well, welcome to being a woman.

Well, I guess so, yeah, that sounds exhausting. I guess maybe they're trying to make it the same thing. But it's, I can't imagine living that way where I'd have to just think about is everything I'm doing. I mean, the dating videos about like, oh, you have to wait, certain amount of time before texting. You can't, don't show her that you like her too much on the first date. Don't ask too many questions. Don't blah, blah, blah, blah, don't pay for the full bill. Don't do this. Oh, there's so many of these different things. No, I know. There's this collection,

but they'll also say, oh, no, but real men should pay for the bill. And it's, so they'll have these contradictions that going on there that are all the one truth and one reality, because they have the answer. And if you want more, buy my course. Totally. There's just, there's too many microphones in the world. There's just, there's a lot of information. Sometimes I just, I just, I swipe through reels and I just get really overloaded with like the amount of opinions and listen we're part of it too we've lots of opinions to start a podcast we think our opinions are great right but there's a lot of it on the internet it's hard to tune it out and I do feel for everybody of all genders that it is hard to be like I don't know what the fuck to listen to right and especially you're a young guy I can't

even fathom being a 17 18 year old guy trying to date and not knowing what what is real who is telling the truth get a friend get a girl friend and that's a exactly. I had friends that were women. My entire life, I've had good friends. If you don't have a sister, get a friend. Yeah. And that was how I learned about what I'd asked them questions because there was platonic friends that weren't interested in that I could be like, hey, what should I, do you think this is a good idea? How should I respond to this? Yes. But don't know, but don't listen to women. That's the whole thing. You don't ask a fish how to catch a fish. You ask a fisherman. Yeah. Right? Because if a woman will tell you what is actually they want in a relationship,

but they're lying. That's what every one of their videos. I have told a, I've like, oh, over two million women that follow me. And if you watch any of my comment sections of any of these videos, they're filled with women saying, yes, this is what I want. Yes. This is what I would like. This is what I want. And they'll be like, no, it's bullshit.

I think that if you ask the average woman, myself and Ashley included, what do you want a person? You can pick 10 things. Sure, two of them might have to do with money. Of course. I'm attracted to a certain height. I would like you to make a certain income. But the other eight things are all personality driven.

How do you make me feel? How are you intentional? or, you know, I think that if you really boiled it down, you could listen to women and it's personality driven that we are looking for. It's not this toxic masculinity. A question that we had on our list was, are there healthier ways for women to communicate their needs without falling into caretaker roles?

Raina, you wrote that question. Can you break it down more? Did you get that from chat, GBT? Because now I'm like, does that make sense? It makes sense. So, I mean, like, Every interview we do like this, it's like, okay, well, if this, then what, right? Like, if we're saying that we want men to be better, how can we ask them to be better in what ways?

And I guess, like, I don't like to just, actually and I never like to be like, this is the problem. We're going to see ourselves out now. Right. So, like, is there anything women can do? Well, I think the problem is, this is the problem, all right? And so, but I think there is that this is the problem. It's that women are saying what to do online. It's easy to find.

Exactly. It's not like there are no women out there giving. Genuinely great dating advice, great relationship advice. That's like fantastic. That mirrors exactly what I'm saying. But for some reason, the only person to listen to was another man says it. And no women are like, you know what you should do is be taller and richer. Right.

I mean, the guys that listen to this show, I mean, you know, every once in a blue man, we will get a really wonderful message from a guy that's like, this helped me find my partner. Like this made me into a better partner, which also there is hope. You know, people do change. I really like that you have been able to change some people's minds with your work and even privately in the DMs. And so, you know, there is hope. I get the same thing. I get a lot of men.

I have more men than people. Once again, if you look at it from a number's perspective, half a million men follow me. They're not all hate follows, right? Some of them are, because I know from their comments. And I have a lot of women that will say, oh, my husband actually likes your, like listens to your stuff. He loves when I show him your videos, but he's not on social media, right? Or it's usually people in happy relationships. And it's not that I'm a good.

I'm not a dating expert. right? I'm not some person that has done this for a living. I just like women, right? That's where I'm in a happy, and I can give it examples from being in a 17-year relationship now with three kids. And they're always like, oh, well, do you film in the corner when your wife is with it? I'm like, I'm not worried about that, right? Because it goes back, they, if you, oh, if you're too nice, if you care about your wife too much, she must be cheating on you. You must be worried about her leaving you. I'm like, what is wrong? Why are you so broken? It's so broken.

It's so sad. And a lot of it is, it's deep. Again, it's how are you grew up? I mean, I'm fascinated by it. Who hurt you? But it's probably, some of it's probably pretty bad. I mean, again, and this isn't male apologist stuff, but there was probably for a lot of these men, really bad home situation of some abandonment, abuse, maybe.

It doesn't always have to be the one girl that broke your heart in college that turned you into this way. So, you know, I want to acknowledge that too, but that's with anyone. male, female, whoever. To your point, dating is hard. Yeah. And I think that's the issue is that we're fed that it's,

dating shouldn't be hard. But it is because you're seeking someone, theoretically, if you want a long-term relationship, right? You're seeking out somebody that you want to spend the rest of your life with. It's not going to happen on the first try. It's probably not going to happen to the 20th try. You have to continue dating and get to know somebody and meet them and, and be willing to be vulnerable, right?

As opposed to the self-fulfilling prophecy is if I'm putting on this mask and pretending to be this fake person to be with somebody. And then when they meet the real me, they don't like me. And we break up with each other. You just wasted your entire time. Absolutely. Right? I'm friends with literally everyone I've ever dated before.

I'm not close and we don't hang out. We're not DMing each other like what you do last weekend. But like I'm on good terms. Right. Because I dated women that I liked. Right. And there was never a situation in our, when we were dating each other where they were like,

oh, you've changed. You're someone else. They knew who I was. We tried it out. It didn't work out. We moved on with our life. lives. And we were able to be positive and have a positive reflection on that reaction. I've had exes that were set me up with other women because they're like, you know, we didn't click,

but I do think there's somebody that you would like that way because of the fact that when we broke up, I didn't all of a sudden burn the house down in and treat her like she was the worst person in the world because she wasn't. She was a good person that I dated. That I chose. I also, I send bells off immediately to me when I'm talking to a man and he says negative things about his ex to me. If she says she's crazy or a narcissist, I'm just like, run. And I just, my hope is when I date somebody that they say, I have no feelings about that person anymore. They were nice. It ended.

They were a nice person, which is how I mostly feel about most of my exes. I feel in the middle about all of them, and that's what you hope for. When a man says terrible things about their exes, I'm just like, what did you do? And it's rarely one X, too. It's always like every single one. Yes. I totally agree with that because I feel like a lot of people have one crazy X. Of course.

But if it's the whole pattern, Mm-hmm. After a certain point, you have to accept that what's the common denominator? You're the common denominator. Do you think there's anything that women that you see in your work that are getting wrong about men out there? You know, not the bad ones, but, you know, that are just kind of like, because I'm always learning. You know, I feel like I'm always learning how to be a better partner. You want to make your partner feel, like, needed and loved. I think if we're going to talk generally, not to get too professory.

And like so one of my research areas is something called feminist standpoint epistemology. And it's the idea that you have your lived experience as someone on these structural power structures in society. You know much more about the people above you on that structure, but know far less about the people that are below you in these structural power things that go on. Right. And so I think women understand men pretty well. I think as a general rule, they get it because of the fact that, you know, we do have a, a mess. misogyny-based culture. And as a woman who is affected by so many of these political policies, by societal things, the dating life that's out there, it's much easier, I think, for women to see what it's like to be a

man in the dating world than it is for a man to understand what it's like to be a woman. I love this concept. And Sarah Silmarin has a new comedy special. And she says something to the effect of that, that women understand men because we've had to be a part of society, to assimilate into these cultures and be respected. We've had to understand what makes you tick, how to get your respect. Men have not had to do that as much for as long. I mean, I joke that I have a, I mentioned earlier,

I have a bastards and gender, a master's in feminist rhetoric, and that allows me to have a conversation with a random woman. I can have a good conversation with a woman who has lived her life as a woman. And like my podcast co-hosts, she doesn't have a theoretical or academic background.

She says most of the brilliant things on our podcast. I think I set her up and she's, I'm like, yep, that's it. And she knows it not because she read, it and took a graduate seminar on it, but because she lived it. Right. And she's a lesbian, but she dated as a straight woman before she realized that. And so she has experience on the whole spectrum of dating, right? And so when she brings things up, she just knows it because she lived it, right?

And she's been able to see it, whereas a lot of men, I think, are able to be, it's a privilege to be blind to what is happening to the people around you. And I think that's really what it comes down to. So I think as a whole, women are saying that they get it. I do feel like I'm, um, I'm all. always learning, but my knowledge is just kind of, it's basic shit. It's stuff I pick up on a podcast or on a TikTok or men are from Mars, women are from Venus, which that book's a little misogynistic, but I read it a long time ago. At the time it was good, but now, yeah, it's

problematic. But a lot of just, it's basic principles that people are just different, you know, and like trying to understand someone, understand that they're built different and why are different, and this is what their needs, their love languages and all that stuff. It's just basic shit. It's not hard. And that's the bar being low. I have a whole playlist on TikTok of the bar being so low. And it's all the most basic stuff like women have feelings. You know, don't lie to them, right? Sometimes it's helpful to change a diaper when your daughter or your child is born, right? It's nothing that's groundbreaking. Nobody should be watching my videos and being like, this guy gets it. It's embarrassing that people are saying that about me because nothing I'm saying

is above and beyond basic human empathy. Women have feelings. Don't lie to them. There it is. you guys, we solved it. We did it. We did it. You did this video where like you're sort of duetting this guy that's talking about how women's standards are too high. And I'm like, the bar is in hell. Our standards are literally so low. Can you just like show up to a thing you commit to?

Like if you ask me to do a thing and you make a plan with me, can you just come to the plan? Like that's the bar. Like just be nice to me. Well, the list that they're going off of that is really hard to hit list is the one that other men are telling them they've created. Yes, yes. Our list is easy. It's pretty much being a person.

I think, and this is this kind of a funnier aspect of this, I really do think goes back to the age thing. When they're looking at videos, like I, so I teach community college. Most of my students are fairly young. I have as little as 13 in some of my classes. And we'll do group projects where we do budgeting and things like that just to do random interactions. And it's always the younger ones that have no idea how much anything costs, right?

It's the, how much is my, I need $20,000 for groceries. every month or even vice versa. I need $20 for groceries every month because they haven't lived it. They don't have the experience. And so these guys would be like all women want X, Y, and Z. It's because they're looking at 18-year-olds who are fresh at a high school who haven't lived and been disappointed by how low the bar is and so many times. And they're like, oh, that's clearly all women. But if you actually talk to women, you find out that once again, as a multifaceted human being that, you know, I'm not going to be every woman's cup of tea. There's plenty of, there's many women that would never want to date me for, six five, that will, like, try to say, you know,

like, Trey Kennedy. He's a comedian. He has this clip and he's like, six three, like, you can get away with life. Six, five, you can go to prison. Just don't tell me about it. Like, I don't care if you speak English. You killed a person. I bet he was a bad guy. But then six, six, six, it's too tall. Six, six, six, it's too much. So I get right on the, honestly, it's six, five. That's Perfect. All right. So maybe I have a skewed vision of this. But I do think.

No, we're not just fucking with you. But yeah. I do. I think there are, the fact is. I'm not, I hate you by the way. I'm like,

I'm like, no, this is weird. I'm not used to this. I'm just being yelled at all right. They're like, I hate you and you're like, wait until I stand up.

Right. Fucker. Yeah. Well, that's also, that's the, that is a funny thing though. It's like,

I fit the roles that they say, I'm a masculine alpha guy. Yeah, I take care. I'm a, my kids. I own my own business. You know, I'm six foot five. Yet I'm apparently the most beta, you know, a guy that exists out there because of the fact that I care about women because I like women. Well, let's like talk about a few little dating things. Sure. If you have some

takes on this stuff. So we obviously see bad behavior. We, you know, experience it and we hear about it constantly from our listeners. When guys are doing things like ghosting or breadcrumbing or keeping a roster and all of that. Do you discuss that and like where that kind of comes from psychologically? I mean, I think a lot of it is just trying to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks. They think, because everything's failing for them. So like, oh, this must be the reason for it. Brick-Rumbing is the funniest thing to me because it makes no sense whatsoever. It's like, well, I got to keep something hidden and just slowly string them along as opposed to you're going to run out of stuff to be that person for them and kind of...

Do you think it's conscious? I mean, I guess every person, is dynamic and has their own set of problems. But like, do you think when people are like breadcrum of you, they're like, I'm going to get her, but I'm going to fuck with her. I'm going to do an ice thing. I'm going to pull back. Yeah, I don't think that's natural. I mean, ghosting can be out of fear if you're like just,

you're terrified of talking to somebody. I could see that might be. But I think most of these things are very clearly. They've heard it. They've thought it. Because once again, I was told these things. When I was a single guy in my 20s, all these exact same advice was being given. You have to do X, X, Y, and Z.

Even things like negging, even those sort of things. Those were all given. out. And obviously I didn't follow them because I'm not a horrible human being. Yeah. But I was like in my mind back then, I was like, I'm probably, I probably should be doing these things, right? And that's probably why I'm not. You know, you buy into it and you assume that that must be the reason that's there. Ghosting as a young guy is, is more understandable than ghosting as a millennial, elder millennial, Gen X. Because you would to like ask girls out in person, you would to call their house and talk to their parents on a landline. Like, it's actually so crazy. Like,

if you grew up and you would to pick up a landline and call and not know who was going to answer the phone, you should never be ghosting someone. I get a little more grace to like a 20-something dude, also just age in general. But like I just think about that so much. Like guys that are 35 plus, how the fuck? It's embarrassing. You grew up differently. You know, you should be better than this.

I mean, a lot of these things are, I don't understand how it's not embarrassing to do these sort of things and to navigate the world. knowing that that's how you're treating other human beings. I agree. What if you run into them? Like, you just want that on your conscience? I don't. Oh, God, I can't even imagine. Yeah.

Okay, so we wrote down to just a couple red flags. We'll wrap up with this. Just debatable red flag behavior. We want to see what you think about it. Okay, what about somebody with no social media, no online presence? As being a red flag for a man with it? Yes. I think some guys just don't do social media.

I love it. Yeah, I think it's fine at all, yeah. I don't see that being a red flag. I see, I mean, unless there's like, once again, it's a red flag only if the person is a red flag doing it, right? If they're doing it because. Actively hiding. Or they can't trust themselves to be online because they're going to do,

you know, liking stuff they're not supposed to like or sending DMs or harassing people. Yeah. Like if that's the reason, but once again, that has nothing to do with not having a social media presence. It's very Pete Higgs. You should not be online. I mean, certain guys, it's probably better off not having any internet presence. Yeah. We're doing a.

flag episode coming up and so many women prefer no like I think the red flag is the too much social media. Oh, absolutely. Too many mirror selfies and the whole thing. It's also social media is a very weird. I know this. As someone that's, I mean, obviously on there. But if I was a, if I had gotten this level of fame as a single guy, I'd like to believe I would

have handled it well. But I'm in a much better space, like being in a secure relationship where I'm not having to do that I do things. So I could see why that's definitely what could be a green flag. preferring to split the bills 50-50 all the time. Where'd you get this from? I've wrote it. No, that's a big one. The 50-50-1 is a huge manisphere talking point right now.

What do you mean? What are they saying? Oh, they're saying you should never pay for it. Some of them are even going as far as you shouldn't spend a cent on her for the first 90 days. That seems contradictory. What? Yeah. I see a lot of this.

But I thought it was, that seems so contradictory to the alpha male. No, because they're like women that want this are disgusting. They're using you. And it's, well, it's definitely, it's not a red flag. sense to me. I think there's nuance to this one, right? Because I think it's a red flag when once a thing you're doing it as a test, right? You're doing it and you're doing it as a surprise, right? I've invited you out to this dinner and I'm going to, but you know, I mentioned I was broke when I met my wife, right? But I was, she knew I was broke, right? And so we did other things that didn't

cost money. We went to poetry readings. We went to theater, like at community theater events. We went to out for coffee with each other. But I knew for a fact that I couldn't afford to take her out to luxurious restaurants, right? And so, and that was fine because I was when I was in my 20s and I, you know, she was, that's not way we're together. But it's, I wanted to spend money on her, though, you know, and what money I did have, I liked by, I liked showing up to see her with coffee, with her favorite coffee. I liked buying her, you know, for our first Christmas together. I, I went, once again, didn't have money. I wanted, but I wanted to get her a good gift. And I went to, I'm from San Francisco originally. And I went to all my favorite spots and got like a little

knick-knack for her. And it was just, I gave her, like, I gave her my home was, was our first Christmas gift. I got her. The Christmas after that, I'm big on Christmases at the time, but we went to an art show together and there was this painting she really liked on the wall. It's too expensive for me. I went up to the artist and I was like, hey, what can I give you? What's the lowest I can give you for that? And I, they liked my story. They gave it to me, hidden my closet for six months. And that was there, but you don't have, it's the, I don't think a lot of guys realize it's not about the money. It's about the mentality. I thought this is really interesting.

So I was talking to a good friend of ours who makes plenty money, good-looking guy, really nice. I'm assuming his interactions with women on dating apps are always really pretty positive. He said that more often than not, he's seeing women in their profiles saying, I'm not splitting a bill with you, don't even ask. He said he sees it constantly over and over and over again. And I'm wondering what men are doing on dates that has made women have to put that out there. It's because of the advice that's being given to do it. This is blowing my mind.

I mean, I see it now. I got, I'm not in the manosphere. Maybe I should dab a little bit more. It's a dark place. I can't look and I can't watch Fox News. I guess you should know the other side is. I get tagged and sent so many videos that my algorithm on Instagram is just that as well. I get too angry.

I know what's going on over there. I don't need to watch it and let it get in my brain. But yeah, some women are like gold diggers. But it's just that's not most of it. It's just so crazy because like the normal women and normal healthy men, I think we all kind of know if you're a man and you ask a woman out, just you pick up the tap with a couple of dreams. And also, if I'm asking you out, if I'm inviting you out, when a company asked me to come meet with them or something like that, I'm not expecting to pay, right?

You know, when I asked somebody, when I asked my wife to go somewhere with me, I was, when we were dating, even though I was broke, if I knew I was inviting her somewhere, I was still doing my best to pay for it. If I could, because I was inviting her to somewhere that she would not have gone to if I didn't do that. And if you're a guy and you are dating a woman and you feel that, like, she never grabs for her. her wallet. She'll never pick up the coffees or the ice creams or the whatever. Like she's really using you for your money. You'll know it. And then end it. And that's, that's, that's, that's fine. Then move on. Yeah, exactly. Why would you even want to be there in that relationship? If that's all, uh, that it comes up. Adding to that, I made a video on this a while back, kind of making fun of this, uh, idea. And all the women were like, well, I don't want him to pay

because then the expectation is there for something after and they get really pushy them. Well, I bought you dinner. I bought you this nice thing. And so a lot of the women, my comment sections where especially early on though, they're like, no, no, I'd rather go for coffee, which is a weird thing because it's also their vannisphere are saying, take her for coffee, don't spend money on her. But they're like, I'd rather do that because then there's no expectation. There's a million ways to look at this.

I mean, everybody's a different opinion about it. If I'm never going to see you again, if I go to date with somebody and I don't like them, I put my card down. Absolutely. The friend zone. You know I'm not fucking you if I put my car down. But I don't want somebody to be on the hook for giving me money. And I'm never going to see you.

But we don't go to dinner on first dates. And we've done tons of content on this. I mean, that's just meet and see if you vibe. And how much is it if you each had two drinks, if you drink, if you do coffee, whatever,

if you go on a walk, but like how much really is it? But I think that's the advice that most women are saying, at least from my comment sections as well, that's exactly what they're saying. But once again, if you're not listening to women

and you're only listening to the guys that are saying, no, they're going to want you for this. And so this is how you catch them. Then this is how you'll find out about. them, as if it's shocking to expect that if you're asked on a date. And also, who made that norm that men pay on the first date? It wasn't women necessarily originally were doing it.

And so, I don't know, it's just, it's all, they get caught up from those, it's men talking to other men and ignoring women. It's so funny to think of these men that are like, women just want me for my money. And we're like, what money? I know. That's a guy. And then if you are a guy with tons of money and you're, not paying. That's even fucking weirder. It's weird. That's why there's also the

manosphere talking point of men don't want successful women. Right. Because that takes away the one edge that they might have in doing this when the reality is who, why wouldn't you be attracted to someone that's successful? Why wouldn't you, what, because of the fact that you have to offer something else? Yes. Yeah. You can't financially control them and you actually have to offer something else other than a paycheck. Yeah. Okay. I like this one. Insisting on natural women, women that don't wear makeup. Have you seen this in the, in the atmosphere? I haven't seen a ton of this one, but I do think, I don't think most men know what they're talking about. I think that's so fascinating men that are like, I would never let my girlfriend get Botox.

You would never know I had Botox. And I've had Botox for 10 years and you're welcome. And when they're talking about natural, they're not actually meaning natural because they also are the ones that say women are catfishing men. This is what she looked like without makeup because they've never seen a woman in the morning, right? Because it's usually they're, they never spent the night. Yeah, they never spent the night, right?

And so, or they run out. They don't know what they're saying. Totally. And once again, their understanding of makeup is from other men's understanding of makeup. Right. They don't know what they're talking about. But also, men wear makeup. They just don't call it makeup.

Like, I have a beard, right? This is my, this is male makeup. If I were to shave off my beard, I wear this makeup because it gives me more of a jawline, right? Same reason anyone would do certain things. And so if I shave it off, of course, somebody would be like, you look so different because that's what we do. Exactly. Well, what a convo.

This was great. I know. Yeah. Thanks so much. We're on the right side of the internet because we got served your content. Yeah. And we love it. Any final thoughts?

Do you think there's anything we miss? No, we're good to go. Hopefully people don't get too angry. No, no, no. Our audience loves this. They really, really do. And like a lot of men that we've had on say that.

And there's never any pushback. So we have a really open, intelligent audience. Well, thank you for this. And tell people where they can find you, your podcast, any other things you're working on. Sure. Our podcast is Mr. Pick Me and the Man Hater, where we kind of really kind of, it's a comedy podcast where we make fun of all the toxic guys on the internet. And we go off on tangents. We do get serious sometimes, but usually we try to keep it very lighthearted. I'm the speech

proff on Instagram. It's my main one. I'm also on all the other ones, but my name's a little different on all of them because I didn't plan on being a content creator. It was accidentally happened and my name was taken everywhere. But look for the speech prof and you can usually find me somewhere. Okay. Well, thank you for being here. This was great. Thank you so much. And you guys know where to find us, Girls Gotta Eat.com. Girls Got to Eat Podcast on Instagram and TikTok. I'm Ash Hess. Raina is Raina. org.

Subscribe on YouTube. Share this episode with a friend. And we will see you Thursday. Have a good week, I. Bye.