Girls Gotta Eat - You Think You Know Someone... feat. Amy Fraser of OKREAL

Episode Date: November 25, 2019

Strap in, we have a story for y'all. Our new friend and founder of OKREAL Amy Fraser joins us to share her shocking story of being cheated on by her husband and her whole world crashing down, starting a new life, dating as a single mother, and regaining her identity. We also catch up on our lives (surgeries, dates, holiday plans, outdated movie reviews), and play a round of How I Knew it WASN'T Real. We hope you enjoy! Check out Amy's company OKREAL and follow her on Instagram at @AmeOhMy. Follow us @GirlsGottaEatPodcast, Ashley @AshHess, and Rayna @Rayna.Greenberg. Check our website for tour dates and NEW MERCH! Thank you to our partners for this episode: Zola: To build your free wedding website and get $50 toward your registry, go to zola.com/gge. Quip: Go to getquip.com/gge to get your first refill free. FabFitFun: Get $10 off your first box at fabfitfun.com with code GGE. ThirdLove: Go to thirdlove.com/gge to get 15% off your first purchase. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I went from living in New York and like downtown Manhattan running my business, like had my shit together. You're like a teen mom. And then I was like, I'm literally on teen mom. I'm literally on teen mom. I'm living. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Welcome back. I'm just checking the temp. I'm looking outside. It is gray. It's the hazy kind of rain. It's the rain you can't use an umbrella for. It's just missed. Yes. Makes your skin look nice though. I am having a moisture. No, it makes me have an ugly face day. Really? I'm just. just having like a like I look in the mirror and I'm like that's not my face. 42 degrees.

30% chance of precipitation. Anyway guys. I'd say there's a hundred percent chance. It's already raining. Yeah. Can your tities tell that? We're back. I thought that we would travel to New Orleans and it would be like sunny and beautiful.

It was unseasonably cold. Yeah. It's like the apocalypse in this country. Everything is cold. It was freezing and rainy. It was beautiful the day we laughed, of course. His most depressing thing On the way to the airport

It was real brutal Sun-shining That's just a city Like you have to walk around outside Because it's so beautiful Yeah It was not Well the first night

We found a new place It was really cool We went to bar Mary Lou Which was just like a sexy red bar And all of a sudden Half the people And they were naked Yeah

It was we were set to offer drinks Where was that bar? I don't know Like location-wise Yeah I don't know It's near the French Quarter Isn't anything near the French Quarter?

And we saw it sat down and we're having drinks and then titty's out. Just tons of tits. But it was like, it was like the best burlesque show because it was a girl, then a guy that they were like alternating. Because you just are like, oh, okay, like burlesque, it's going to be women. And then a guy came out

and then he just stripped down to a song. Yep, suspenders. Some usher song. I was like, okay, New Orleans. That's like the only city I'm not shocked that happens in. You're just at a casual bar. I mean, this isn't that casual. And then all of a sudden people are just naked all around you. Yeah, I loved it. The nicest brass

I've ever seen. They were insane. Raina saw this girl's tities. I made a breast consultation today. You already had it booked, but it only took me two months to get in. We'll talk about it later. And then St. Louis, which was great too. The shows were really awesome. It was so wonderful. We had our 50th show in St. Louis. Everyone there was so incredible. So many people traveled. You guys came from Kansas City. Sorry, we didn't come there. We'll be made a mistake. We're sorry. I loved it. I didn't see how funny. Amazing crowd.

great. Yeah. So thank you guys if you celebrated our 50th show with us. Over the 49th or the 48th. Yep. Loved it. Thank you guys. Stupid live shows coming up. We announced Texas last week, Dallas, Houston, Austin. We still have tickets left for D.C. maybe. Yep. And L.A. L.A. Oh, yeah, of course. L.A. L.A. Wilturn Theater. It's a big theater. Come out and party with us. Yes. And Australia. We don't know. Guys, we know you want us to come there. We are actively trying. Every day I wake up, I think to myself, where the fuck are these deals? We're working on it next. It's probably going to be February. I don't know. We'll see. Anyway. That's the stupid live show update. We'll let you guys know. We have, oh my gosh, I'm so excited.

We have an announcement. We're announcing that merchandise, brand new, beautiful merchandise is available on our site. It's only what I've been talking about it for six months. It's finally here. Tons of new designs. It's so beautiful. We have crop hoodies for you guys. We have sweatshirts.

We have t-shirts. We have a pillow for you guys. We have new mugs. It's all so beautiful. I'm so proud of this stuff. Yeah, right? I'm about to turn it on your levels. You get real worked up over here.

I'm so proud of what we did this time around. I loved our merchandise last year. I loved our holiday merch. I'm so, so proud. We worked so hard on this. and I can't wait for you guys to check it out. Yeah, it's great. Guys, just going to let you know that we did not plan to make merch that said don't DM us.

That was y'all's decision. So we are not that snarky. We were not going to make merch that said that. And we got overwhelming requests for it, like in the Facebook group and like people messaging us. So we made it. Yeah, buy it. People made it. Someone wore a shirt that said it.

She made her own shirt to St. Louis. Someone made us coozy's that said it. So more than anything, that's what you guys wanted. And so we do have merch that says don't DM us because you guys asked. I can see like a whole sorority squad getting it. Yes. It's like a squad like you wear it with your friends that says us. Yeah.

And guys, listen, someone DMed me and said she didn't like that we said don't DM us, which is an insane thing to do. And we just have to tell you. Because she DM'd you? Literally, can you imagine DMing someone to tell them not to say don't DM that? That's wild. we say it because we want to be able to manage the DMs better. Like that's the only reason why we say it.

If we didn't ever look at our DMs, we wouldn't care. But it's the fact that like we get so many and somebody of them are like, don't need to be there. And so we're just like we want to be able to manage them better. We're trying our best. We've gotten, it's hard. It's getting harder. But we're trying our best to at least respond to like all stories and really get in there.

Raina's like we'll just take hours at a time and get in there. So, you know, we clearly guys, like we say it in jest. Like it's a joke. Like we are so thankful for you guys and that you, message us and listen to this. I just have to, I didn't make it clear. I think it's pretty obvious that without you guys, we wouldn't have any success.

No, we love you. We would just have like a fire podcast with no listeners. So, yeah, but we say it's just what everybody wants. Yeah, we say jokingly, but yeah, we were not planning to put on merch, but you guys asked. So it's there. Yeah. And to echo what Ashley said, we love you guys.

I love you guys. Ashley loves you. We love listening to all of your, reading all your DMs about how important the show is to, whatever. It's just sometimes like 900 people will DM us the title of a movie. The same thing. But I got to say, there's two types of people and there's someone that will DM us to say, I'm offended.

You say, don't DM us. And there's someone that's going to want us to put it on merch and which type of person are you? You know what I mean? Ask yourself that. I like option B. I like that girl. I'm fucking partying with that girl. Guys, check out the merch.

Girls Gotta Eat Podcast.com. Deadlines really quick. I got the whole deadlines for you. So they are much better than last year, but it doesn't hurt to order them ahead of time as much as possible as last time the deadline was December 1st. last year to get it by Christmas. They are much better this year. So for U.S. shipments, standard shipping, you guys have to order by December 13th to get stuff by December 23rd. You can do express shipping by December 14th. And then international stuff. So if you want stuff

in Canada, Europe, and it says specifically Japan, those deadlines are December 5th. And then the rest of the world is December 2nd. And that'll all be on the website. We'll make it very, very clear. And again, guys, you know, Black Friday's coming up, may or may not do a sale. We just don't want you to, you know, keep it in mind. Who doesn't do a sale, right? It's not going to be anything crazy, but, you know, just want to let you all know, because we love you. We want you to get the deals.

But that being said, it is Thanksgiving week. Of all the holidays, I think Thanksgiving is my favorite. Well, yeah, right? I mean, that's all you got. I'm just kidding. Well, I do Christmas with friends, families every year. Your family, obviously. But Thanksgiving, it's just so warm.

This year is terrible. My brother's not coming home. My dad's not coming home. So it's just me and my mom. That's it. So thankful. I'm really thankful to be completely alone without the rest of my family. So I'm flying to Pittsburgh.

Then I'm flying to Dallas to see my dad for like a day and a half. And then I'm flying back here. It's going to be miserable. I am just driving to Delaware. I'm going to put Dewey in the car. We're leaving on Tuesday tomorrow if you guys are listening on Monday. And we wanted to let you know if you're a newer listener, you haven't been listening since the very beginning.

It's fine. We'll accept it. But we did two episodes last. year before the holiday season started. One was called single all the way and one was called surviving the holidays. So one was about like families and when's the right time to go home with the significant others family and addressing all this stuff and then single all the way was being single for the holidays. And we did a bonus episodes. We put out two in a week right before Thanksgiving last year, I believe. Yeah. And so if you're wondering about those topics, go listen right around

this time last year. They were so fun. That one with the, um, family tradition. Sitting around watching Fox News. You guys sent us the funniest emails about people's family holiday tradition. Send us those emails again. Oh yeah. Let's do that again. We'll do this closer.

Maybe it's in between Thanksgiving and Christmas. We'll have to do that again. I forget why we did that. It was so fucking funny. We were talking about going home with your Thanksgiving or other for the holidays. So like what stuff are you embarrassed about that your family does or like what crazy shit you walked into? Like one year like my ex's mom was like I'm so glad you're here.

because we never have somebody to take the pictures of our family for us. Oh, that's right. Like shit like that. Okay, so if you guys have crazy family related going home for the holiday stories, email us. Hello at GirlsGutty Podcast.com, please. And of course, you guys always want to know how do I survive the holidays being single, that question of when are you getting married?

Do you see in somebody? So we covered all that too. I did a whole episode on it. Yeah. I know that that's everybody's worse thing there. It's a babe. Single all the way. Yes. So check it out.

Yeah. Okay. I had a big day today. Okay. I had my tities looked at. Yeah. I've been wanting to get a breast reduction, like, really since I was like 19. And I, like, was so scared because when I was 19, I went and they told me about the scarring that you have.

And, like, basically to get a reduction, they take your whole nipple off. They go straight down from the nipple and all the way under your boobs. It's called an anchor scar. And so I just, like, never did it because I was so scared that you have these terrible scars. But I guess there's been some, like, advancements in this kind of stuff. So they actually, I saw a lot of pictures. It doesn't look as bad as it used to. I mean, everybody's body's different.

But I wasn't sure if I wanted to get a reduction plus an implant or just an augmentation. or just an augmentation, the doctor man explained to me that those are all completely conflicting ideologies. I was like, I want to get a reduction in an implant. He's like, those are different things. So, I mean, you still would get two. You would get those, though.

They just wouldn't be at the same time. He said that they would be a different, you wouldn't, you'd get an augmentation and an implant. Okay. I don't really know the difference in all this stuff. But anyways, I want just like a smaller C cup, so I'm going to get a reduction. He said it's far less invasive than an implant

because they don't go under the muscle. The recovery is much quicker anyways. Okay. I got a little sticker shock. It's expensive. I'm sure people want to know what it costs. I mean, it's different in every city. So, yeah.

Obviously, in New York, it's more money because of rent and things like that. But, yeah, I'm looking at doing it in January. And he said the recovery is fast. It's like five days. And then I can go right back to traveling and doing what I'm doing. Oh, my God. I think I'm finally doing it. Yay.

My boobs don't look bad. It's just like, I mean, I'm in my 30s. You can't fight gravity. Gravity is going to win. Yeah. Well, you'll just feel so much lighter. I'm really excited. He said you don't really lose weight.

And I was like, I'm not looking to, like, lose weight from it. It's just like, he said you'd have to take out like quarts of fat in order to actually lose weight. Yeah, I don't think that's the point. But you'll look thinner, though. You're gonna look so much smaller.

I just, like, we posted this picture on Instagram story this week of me and this turtleneck and I had like tucked it in. And like, I'm a thin person. I wear like a very, I wear the size two. And I look like enormous in this photo. And it's because like my booze made me look huge.

Makes every shirt look like a tent. Yeah, you can't, you have to scint your waist or forget it. Yeah, look ridiculous. So I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm going to, probably pick a different friend to pick me up and wipe my ass that day.

I am happy to pick you. I'm happy to pick you up, stay with you. I will not wipe your ass. You don't seem like that person, yeah. Who would? I think show she's going to do it for me. I don't even know, like, I would never, whatever. I'm lucky to have, like, my family around that would come do that.

I would never ask a friend to wipe my ass. Our relationship would never be the same. But you are. I could never do. Raina, you are not, your mom is going to come here. You were not going to have a friend wipe your ass. I would never have my mom wet my ass before I'd have my mom wipe my ass. I'm going to tell you guys. No, I think your mom, like, whatever, your relationship with your mom is what it is. I just think she would like to help.

I'd have to fly her here. She would stay with me. Who cares? You're going to be on drugs. I feel worse. You're going to have a great time with her when you're all drugged up. That's true. She's going to be great. She'll take some of the drugs. Yeah. Give her some of the weed I have in my drawer next to my bed. Yeah, it'll be great. Speaking of our. Beholes. This girl in St. Louis, we were walking up to the stage and somebody walks up to the stage and chucks three lufas at us. I know. I mean, it was like when you, like, when the Beatles would take the stage and people would just like throw their bras out of. I don't know. Not that the Beatles, Michael Jackson. You know, like some rock star, not that we're rock stars, but you know what I mean.

Like someone comes on stage to perform and they get, you throw stuff at them. Like roses, underwear, whatever it is, we got lufus for our buttholes. So thank you guys. I mean, I don't eat it. Mine's clean. Yeah, all three were for May. We have had, You guys have tagged us in some of the funniest stuff about, like, the washcloth in your B-hole has, like, changed your life. Like, I feel so proud. Are you getting tagged in a lot of washcloth beehole stuff? Some, yeah, a few.

Or just a DM that's like, thank you. My buttholes never felt cleaner. I'm like, what is this? I didn't invent the washcloth. You started a revolution of cleaning a B-hole. I've been posted. My B-holes never felt cleaner. Mine feels clean every day.

I wonder, like, what the improvements I could do to my butt to make it feel like, even cleaner. I don't know. It's funny. You guys are acting like I invented the watchcloth. I just feel so proud and so honored that I can help you guys with your hygiene. I don't ever want anybody to throw anything at me on stage except for maybe a lufa. Lufas. That was amazing. Three Lufus. She wrote

something on it. Yeah. They were great. I will, guys, I will say this. I said it last year. Thanksgiving, usually the day after, sometimes Thanksgiving night and then the day after your dating apps will be popping off. Like everybody's home. They're all full from eating.

They're being lazy. They want attention. They have like the post-holiday scaries. And you will get the most matches. If you fire that up on like the Thanksgiving and the few days after, you will see more matches than you've ever seen before. I'm just telling you hot tip. Speaking of that, yeah, I guess I'm supposed to have this date this week. I don't know.

We're recording this on Monday. So I still have the whole week ahead of me. This guy started texting me and I couldn't. Raina. You are usually really, you're kinder than me, and you play devil's advocate, and you were like, this is bad. I just, yeah, I think that, like, opening messages, whatever. You don't have to be, like, the cleverest, funniest person. So I try to give people, like, it wasn't opening messages.

We had already messaged a bunch within the app. This was, like, texting. Yeah, it was not great. I mean, I just don't think that we would get. I'll go out with him. He's cute. I said I was going to. But, like, after texting with him a few times, I was like, we're not, we're not meshing.

Like, I said something about. I was watching Home Alone, obviously. It's my favorite movie. Home Alone and Home Alone, too. I gauge people on if they, what they know about Home Alone. Like, it is the best movie of all time. I think God, you found a way to review a movie from 25 years ago. Guys, I'm really trying to review movies. When was Home Alone in the 80s? 25 years ago. And there's, like, I'm obsessed with Home Alone conspiracy theories and, like, I love talking about Home Alone. I love all the Home Alone memes. I love everything. I know Everything about it. And, like, if you don't know Home Alone and, like, can't recall things about it and want to talk about it, like, you're just not going to be for me. And,

And I said something like about home alone and he was like, oh, God, I haven't seen that in forever. And he was like, isn't it so crazy that they're already putting Christmas decorations up? I was like, hot take, buddy. Hot take. You're never going to be as fucked up a person as I need you to be. I cannot. You're not for me. All right.

So he's like a corny nerd. He's not for you. He's never going to be fucked up enough for you. I can deal with a nerd. Like, I need a fucked up nerd. But yeah, I need like sarcastic, dark, not a guy. It's like, how crazy? they're putting up decorations.

This is not even Thanksgiving. I haven't seen Home Alone in years. It's like, how do you not watch Home Alone every year, motherfucker? I know. Did you even have a childhood? Like, Home Alone, it's probably on TV right now. I've definitely on TV right now, the first and a second. He's just too corny.

He's not for you. Okay. I'll still go out with him. I'm giving you a pass. You don't do that guy. Well, I also met this guy in New Orleans. So supposedly I have a date with him this week. We'll see.

He was great. He's great. I really liked him. I met him in New Orleans. He's coming to New York this week and he's like, I want to take you to dinner. he actually was like, I like you. He's straight upset it to my face. Guys outside of New York.

I was like, that's the answer. I literally stutter was like, I like you too. You were like, I'm sorry. No one has said this to me in New York in so long. I don't even know how to react to this. What do other girls say to this? He's like, I like you. And you're like, do you want to get a sandwich?

He's like, I like you. I was like, take a night. Cool. I wouldn't notice. No, he's great. I'm just trying to meet guys in the road like you've been doing. Taking cues from my girl. They're wonderful.

They just act like decent human beings. We'll see. Give them like a week. Anyway, well, I guess that's about it. That's about it. We'll guys have a great Thanksgiving. Yes. We're thankful for all of you.

Tag us in your girls eating Thanksgiving dinner photos. Want to see what you guys are eating. I love a Thanksgiving. You do? I love a Thanksgiving spread photo. Every plate looks the same. No, I love. I don't care. All the beige carbs.

Tag me and all of them. You don't have to tag Ashley. I want to see what every one of you is eating. Okay, well, okay, well, now you have to tag Ashley. Tag us and whatever, guys. we're just going to be at home eating with our families. Like nothing else to do, tag us, tag us. Tag us, tag us.

All I'm going to do is get drunk for days. I love being at your house for holidays. There is nothing to do. You're on the farm besides play with dogs and eat and get drunk with your dad. Your dad and I started trying to. We told this last year, but like, I tried to keep up with your dad. I mean, he's, first of all, that's not even an option. He has started hours prior.

That's what he told me. If you guys are starting at the same start line, you are not. He's been going for hours. You will never start with him. You will never finish with him. just stop. What did he say to me? Do you have a death wish?

Yeah. I was like, I'm just going to keep up with Lee. And he was like, no, you're not. Yeah, good luck. He really big lead me. Yeah. So, lead you? Big Lee.

I love him. All right. Well, we're thankful for you guys. I agree with Ashley. Tag us in your cute little food picks. Happy Thanksgiving, guys. We love you. Yeah.

Okay. Let's get into it today with our guest. We have a very special guest today in the house studio with us and Dewey. she, how do I describe her? She is a friend of our friend. We met her about six months ago at a bar, and your story is so tremendous about, I'm going to let her tell it obviously, but about finding out that your partner really isn't who you think they are, and then being a single parent and introducing a new partner

to that child. I'm going to let you get into all of it. But I think that your story is so beautiful and so beautifully told. And also, she is a writer. She lived in New York for years. She lives in New Zealand now. She also founded a company code OK Real. which is a curation of wisdom shared by other strong, smart women.

And I'm going to let her talk about her own story. So welcome to the studio, Amy Fraser. Thanks for having me, guys. Thanks for being here. Very nice to be here. I flew all the way from the South Seas to be in this room right now. For this. Yeah. You win the award. Farthest traveled guest.

Absolutely. I'll represent girls got to eat in the South Sea. Somebody's got to do it. Thanks for being here. Yeah, which is New Zealand. People probably don't know what that means. Oh, well, New Zealand is like a small patch of grass. in the South Pacific Ocean next to Australia.

The South seas. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Is that what people say? Well, it's what I say. Okay. What part New Zealand do you live in? Oakland, the North Island. Like the main city in New Zealand.

Right? Yeah. But you lived in New York for eight years? Eight or nine. Okay. Yeah, eight or nine. Okay. And then you, so you grew up there and then moved here, and that's where you met this guy, right?

Yeah. So I moved to Toronto, actually, for about six months when I was 20, 22, two or 23, and then moved to New York after that. I met this guy who was my now ex-husband, the first week that I was in New York, and I kind of never left from that point on. And you were starting a company when you met him. So this company was not, it didn't start post-divorce. No, so I actually, during that time, I was just kind of arriving in the city. I worked a number of kind of odd jobs, and as soon as my green card came through, I worked at a branding agency. And I started my business kind of a few years in. So I moved here end of 2009,

and I started my business in 2014. End of 2014. Okay. Okay. So, okay, is he, is he American? So he lives here still. California. He lives in California. And the child is, your child is. Sorry, I don't want to jump ahead. Okay. Let's just start the beginning. Okay. You met this guy, week one in New York. Yeah. Of course. So I'm a terrible guy in New York. Okay, we'll let you share the truth. We'll let you share your story because there's a lot of twists and turns and you have the floor. Just like, yeah, just go into it. We're just here to listen.

Like, yeah. We don't care how long it takes. We have all day. I want to hear it's like start to finish. I don't know a lot of it. All right. Okay. Okay, let's do this.

So I came to New York. New York was definitely my first love. I love the city. New Zealand is very different. Culturally. I was very attracted to the drive and the people and just immediately was besotted. And so I, you know, everything is a good idea when you're 22. And so I meet this guy.

And you know what? It seemed really sincere and genuine. And I think the difference, you know, I'm older and wiser now. I'm 32 years old. And I think what you need and what you want at 22 are very different. And so we met, we had kind of like a whirlwind, you know, like, oh, I'm in New York and I met this guy. And he was, he was.

lovely, you know, for all I could tell and cared about me for all I could tell. And so we... Older and I? Or like... A few years older. So I was maybe 22 or 23 and he was probably, I think he was about 27. Okay. Got it. So, you know, he was an artist. He, um, he was kind of just starting his career in that realm in terms of, uh, kind of commercializing what he did. And we, um, spent time together. And then we ended up getting... engaged really quickly. And, you know, like, I'm talking like I met him in October and then we were engaged in January. So it was very hasty. Wow. Yeah. And I think at that age, you just don't know, this is maybe not, I'm not, I don't mean to generalize or speak for everybody, but at least for me,

you know, I'd had relationships before, but I also just didn't understand the type of connection that was potentially out there or what, what marriage should be based on. And I did love. love him, absolutely. But I will say that I don't know if we had kind of a deep connection or I mean, how can you three months in? And I know that some people have really great success with relationships that start like that. But just for me, this was not a great decision to make in haste. Did you think at the time, like when you know, you just know? Yeah. And I think that you, you know, you tell yourself things to normalize your situation. And so at the time, I was happy.

And I thought I was making a decision that felt right at the time. And you want to believe in this love story? Of course. I moved to New York. I met this guy. He swept me off my feet. We're just this story.

Yeah. And you're not an idiot. You're a child. You're still 22. You're not an idiot. You're living on your own. You live in New York. You're supporting yourself.

Yeah. Make your own decisions. Yeah. And so you kind of, you know, you do what feels right at the time. And that's all that you can do in life. And sometimes the decisions that feel right at the time don't pan out to be the best things for you.

But there was a reason that we met and that is eventually, you know, my son, who is the, not just the silver lining, but just the golden hallelujah at the end of the story. So I was just meant to meet this guy to have my beautiful son. And that is the way that I look at this. So I just paid a lot of tax for this little boy. So to continue, you know, we married at City Hall. We had a wedding in New Zealand with, you know, family and kind of a year later. And I think for those first two years, and this might be really naive of me, I don't know when the infidelity started. I remember those first two years being, you know, we were happy or at least I thought we were. And I think what happened is we both

continued our relationship. We both became very kind of work focused. I helped him shape his art career into something that was not just a hobby and applied more of like a business sense to it and he started to do very well. I started my business and we were both very aware that we'd married young and that we were still interested in maintaining our independence from a career point of view or from two young kids living in New York and we didn't have the picket fence or which at the time I kind of prided us on. I was like, you know what? We're doing this our way. We don't need shared bank accounts, but there was a few things now that I look back that were part of, what I believe were part of a lifestyle that he had that I wasn't aware of at the time

that allowed him to conceal it or maybe initially it wasn't something malicious, but then it turned into something that enabled this way that he was. So we led these lives that were, you know, in the beginning we would kind of travel together and, you know, we moved from Soho to the East Village. I started my business. He continued with his and he started to travel more often for work and like really often. And I remember saying, well, you know, can I come or he'd go to Paris or, you know, wherever it was. And I was never invited or I was like, oh, I'm just going to be working the whole time or, you know, it wasn't. and I understand that that's, you know, I get it.

And I've always been very independent. So I think what's important to note is that there's a difference between being independent and also creating an environment in a relationship where you have no needs whatsoever from that other person. And so, and again, normalizing something that seems gradual. We never fought. We never fought. we you know anytime you wanted to go away I was like go for it babe you know go do your thing

but we ended up being on very separate paths and um to the point where you know even my friends were like my girlfriends were like well why you know like it's just so separate like what's the deal kind of you know and I was just like you know you know what he travels for work and he's I've got my business and yeah and I've got you know I've got my community of women and friends in New York and I built a really robust life for myself here dependent of him, which in the end saved me. Thank God. Yeah. I'm curious, like, looking back, do you feel like it was, like, I think that there is something

really beautiful to be said for letting your partner have their own hobbies and travel and not questioning everything they did? What would you say was, like, the difference between what you were doing and that? Like, what was the difference is probably he was cheating, right? I just mean, like, how did it feel different? Like, did you feel like you would completely separate it? lives. Or maybe it was just that he was cheating and you couldn't put your finger on why it felt so separate. I never thought he was cheating on me. Right. I didn't have any inkling. And,

you know, I wasn't, so in terms of, you know, what's the difference? So, for example, if somebody's listening to this going, holy shit, my husband travels all the time, does this mean he's a, you know, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's doing that. Well, no. I think the difference is that there was an evasiveness. that I see now that increased towards the end of our relationship. And that became clearer. And I look back and, you know, I occasionally scribbled down in a diary. And I remember seeing a while ago, it was like, oh, he won't, I don't know, there was just no attentiveness.

And I think that was amplified when I was pregnant and you do become more vulnerable. And but there was just, there was just so much separation. And he didn't know any of my friends. He didn't want to know any of my friends. We would, you know, we would spend the holidays together. But even when he would come and spend time with my family in New Zealand, he would kind of be like, oh, what are you doing today? And what am I doing today?

Totally separate. Like very separate. Winter box, we're telling you guys about right now, get it, love it, thank us later. All right. Back to Amy. So you're living these lives and they are like kind of separate, but you still don't sense that like he's actually in full-bone relationships with other people. Okay.

No, and I, and when I look back, you know, retrospectively, I think, well, was I happy during that time? And I think I was, but I think a lot of that happiness I was getting from the other people and the other sources in my life. I'm really close with my family, even though they live far away, and I have really tight relationships with my girlfriends, and my work was really important to me and still is. And so I wasn't unhappy in our relationship, but when I think, about it, it was just kind of nil. Yeah. Like we didn't have one.

I think there can be relationships where the guy travels all the time and he still is like loving and attentive and you have a good relationship. You see that there's plenty of relationships out there like that. Or you both really have these separate independent lives, but you still are a solid unit. You're like on the same team. Like I imagine to start, I feel like we're not on the same team. Yeah. And it was just, and because it's been going on for so long and I always kind of thought,

well, this is a phase in our lives. And this is, and marriage is not, you know, always fun and games. And so I'm incredibly loyal, you know, if I don't cheat on people. Like, I've just, if you are in my corner, you are my, you are my fucking person. And I will not, I will always stick up for you and I will fight to the death. And there are very few people, you know, who I, like, I just, it didn't even cross my mind. You just thought this is our reality. This is our reality.

He travels a lot for work because we're trying to save money and he'd always say, oh, you know, I'm putting money away for our family. But then we never had shared bank accounts. We had one pathetic kind of savings account that took me like five years to convince him to open because I was like, well, if we want to have a family and, you know, it was,

so there were a few things like that and then he never wanted to be in photos with me. He never wanted to, there were all these little things that now I, you know, kind of see very clearly. But at the time, oh, what do you? you're going to do, be really pity and be like, you don't post any photos on Instagram of us? We say in 2019, yes, it's not petty. It's, it's maybe years ago when like you were with him and this was starting to happen. But yeah, in 2019, I think that like we need to accept that like

Instagram is reality today. And if you're not sharing me in any way, then I think it's a little strange. I mean, I think there's people I've dated that will post three photos on Instagram a year. And those people I'm not going to come down on. But if he was, and I, Lindsay told me about this. So that's why I know the background of this. But like if he, he's an artist. and he has an Instagram account or he's posting himself a lot, then it's weird. And it wasn't even, I was like, look,

if you don't want to post photos of us, like, fine, but, like, cannot, like, I wasn't allowed to tag him in my pregnancy announcement. What? Why? How did he spin this to you? Right. Thank you for asking that.

That wasn't going to ask. I was just going to let this one go. Yeah, no. Right, like, how did he say? Great point. Let's not address this. Do you know what's embarrassing about that is that I say to him, don't worry, I didn't tag you because I know that you don't like,

you know, publicity in that way. Did he say I'm like a well-known artist, so I don't want people knowing who my partner is, basically? He was just like, well, A, he's not that well-known, and B. Right. Like, sorry, Banksy. But it's Banksy. It's not.

It's, guys, it's Banksy. Ever heard of it. But also, like, covers flown. He was just like, well, I don't like my family on, you know, I don't want any of my personal life online. And so, you know, to an extent, an honest person, you could accept that. I think when you love a person, you rationalize a lot of things. And in retrospect, you're like, that was ridiculous. I mean, I don't know.

I guess when you were really super famous, I get it. But I would like to see the person that is actually believes that and they're like a loyal person. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. But like, I get it. If you were wildly famous and you're like, I got to. to draw this line. I cannot have my personal life out there. But when you're not even close to being that, you've got to wonder. You're not Justin Bava. I had an ex who, I was living with my first

boyfriend in New York, who was a wine director at a restaurant. And he used to tell me I couldn't come to his work. And he said, you can't come to my work and be hanging out at the bar because, like, I'm young, I'm a young manager and I need respect. And I can't have my girlfriend sitting at the bar drinking like, this is playtime. And he would, like, shame me into thinking, like, that that was appropriate. that I should stop by his work and have a glass of wine at the bar. And I bought that forever. And the reality was that he was fucking all of his staff members. And that's why he didn't want me to come there because he lied to everybody about having a girlfriend.

But like I do understand rationalizing some things. Because like in retrospect, you're like, that's ridiculous. But I get it in the moment, is what I'm saying. So did you start to, well, you finished telling him. But I didn't, I want to know, obviously I want to know if you started to suspect or. I didn't. And it's, you know, to your point, Ashley, before about like, you know, what he didn't want to know my friends.

I think you made a comment about, you know, you can still travel and have, and I think a great example of that is, you know, I travel for work, my current boyfriend, which will get to. He, you know, me and my girlfriends will FaceTime him at 4 in the morning when we finish partying and are about to go to bed.

And he hasn't met them. They live on a different continent. And yet they're like joking together, you know, their friends. Like we're all like his life and my life. And, you know, he knows my friends. I know his. And even when I'm traveling, like,

I'm always like, no, these are my people. Like, this is, you know, so you can have that connectivity even if you travel. Well, we kind of mentioned your pregnancy announcement, but we didn't really say you got pregnant and had a kid. So how far into the marriage did you have? I really wanted a baby. Okay. And I think that I was kind of at a point, like my body was screaming.

Like, I had a very kind of hormonal, you're turning 30. Like, I come from a family of five. So you guys were married for six, seven years before. babies came into the mix. Okay, I just like to know the like timeline. Yeah, no, it's a long time also. It's not like you pressured him into having babies. It's like, you know, you were married for a long time before you got pregnant. Yeah, and we both decided to, well, you know, we both decided to have a baby and he was definitely more hesitant about it. But I think also, but then one day he came, he came back home and he was like, let's have a baby. And it was like this, like, he had decided

that he was ready kind of thing. And now, now I'm pretty sure that he had, come from a, um, it was when he'd come back from a trip. And I think that he was with somebody else on that trip because now I can pinpoint the moments when he was with woman because of the way he treated me when he walked in the door, which would last for all of, you know, a day. And then he'd go back to kind of being, treated you better, like more loving. Yeah. Because he like felt guilty. Do you think when he walked in the door? Okay. I think it was more like, not guilt. I think it was more relief that I can maintain this. That she didn't find out this time. Yeah. Got it. Okay. So he's just happier. So he's treating you better.

Or he's feeling more relieved. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. Like, oh, I got home and right, I wasn't found out. I was able to do that. So he was like, let's have a baby. And I was like, okay. And then we got pregnant really quickly.

But then, but it just, other than that one conversation where he seemed, you know, into it, the idea. From there, it was, it wasn't great in terms of just, you know, kind of talking about the baby, planning the baby and everybody says men are scared you know men get freaked out there's a lot of fear involved as soon as they meet the baby it's fine and so you listen to this and you listen to this but um you know i had a really rough pregnancy uh in the beginning not by any you know everybody has most

people have rough pregnancies just in terms of being really sick morning sickness and so um i was in you know and pretty much in bed for three months and i would get up at three a m to work and then because i would be sick the whole day um so there was just a lot of of signs when I look back now. Just a lack of care. And I told him when he was on a plane back from Tokyo. And the first thing he said was, oh, that fast. When you told him, oh, my God.

That must have been really, like, disappointing and hard for you. Yeah, but at the same time, I was like, oh, ha ha, like. You laughed off. Yeah. Well, because I think you're probably, like, that's the kind of outpouring of emotion you were used to from him. You didn't expect more. Right. Yeah. So when your expectations become so low and they're not being overtly cruel or mean. Right. It becomes harder to differentiate, I think. For sure. Okay. So you had a child. He wasn't great during the pregnancy.

Yeah, it was just detached. Yeah. Detached is a good word. And also, I don't really buy into this whole like just wait until the baby pops out. He'll change. Like the men that I know have been really great and supportive to their pregnant wives. Like 100% of them. Like I don't... I know if I subscribe to that. I agree. I know that adage, it says like a woman is a mother

the day that she gets pregnant. A father is like a father the day that he sees the baby. But like, I'm with you. I think that like all my friends' husbands have been wonderful for the pregnancies. Yeah. Well, I mean, I wasn't there day to day with them,

but they seemed to be fine. Okay. So when did you start to see the cracks? So I found out that he was, in Charleston when he had told me he was in California. We were in California together. I came back to New York. I was hosting an event.

He was like, oh, I'm going to stay in California and surf with the boys for a little bit. And I was like, okay, cool. It's like, I'm going to stay for a night or two extra. And then I found out that he was not, in fact, in California, despite these very elaborate. But, yeah, roll off the tongue lies that. Of course. Yeah, just rolls off the time.

Which was, you know, to the point where I had a conversation with him and he was like, yeah, I'm just at this beach and we're just, I'm just going to drive up to this meeting. I just had fish tacos at this place. And then he was literally at the airport. So, the extent. How do you live with yourself? I don't know.

I don't know. And he was giving you people's names that he was with. He was like, I'm with this person. And it's like easily checkable facts. Yeah. Okay. But so I find out that he is in Charleston. Okay.

and I called the hotel that he was staying in because I was worried because I hadn't heard from him because his phone had died. He said nobody by that name is checked in here over the past few days. And so I then found out through other people that he was actually in Charleston. And so, you know, this is like early hours of the morning.

I'm supposed to host an event that day. I'm, you know, I'm five months pregnant at this point. What? beside myself because I'm like, he's either dead or having an affair and I don't actually know which one is worse. So, you know, you show up to work, you host your event, you like, do what you can. And I think right before it was, it was a mentorship circle I was hosting and I'd finally gone through to him. And on the phone, I was like, you're in, you're in Charleston. Like, I know that you're there and deny, deny, deny.

And- Do you act like you were being nuts? Oh, yeah, gaslighting. You're crazy. you're absolutely crazy. Oh, God. You were like, I know beyond doubt that you're there. Yeah, right. What are you talking about?

Yeah, yeah. So after having to convince him to stop lying to me, he finally admits. And he made up this lie about how he was staying with a friend who had a baby and who had children and therefore he was like so freaked out. He needed to go spend time with his friend. And I was like, whatever. And I was like, this is bullshit. I'm staying in a hotel and like, see you never.

Yeah. And so he comes back and my mom actually was visiting and she hopped over to Canada to see some friends. She was coming back to New York, like perfect timing. And so I kicked him out of the house and for, you know, I think it was like a good week. And but we, you know, we had dinner with my mom and then he went and stayed at the standard, which is important. I'll elaborate soon. But, um, but, um, we had dinner with my mom and then, um, he went and stayed at the standard, which is important. I'll elaborate soon. But, um, um, In the end, I let him back in and I, you know, he was like, I'm so sorry. I'm just really fearful about the baby and this is, you know, it's a big deal. And I was like, you can be scared, but you can not deal with your fear in this way. Did you know he had an affair? Was he admitting to an affair? No, so he just said, look, I was with Tim, this guy, Tim. You can text him if you want, like he'll corroborate that I was there.

I'll never lie to you again. I was just so freaked out about the baby and I just want to. wanted to get away. And I was like, yeah, but you travel like 90% of the year. And I've never questioned weight in one. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay. Did you get past this like, it's not an affair or lie? Okay. So he was like, I mean, you're pregnant. I'm pregnant. Like, I mean, I feel like I am the most suspicious person in the world. And I think even at five months pregnant, I would be like, I got to believe what. I got to believe that my husband who just impregnated me is being faithful. I'll believe whatever it takes. Like, I will be blind to the

facts. I'm absolutely. What? Yeah. It's probably my, when I was 29, my fiancé left me, that was the worst thing I can imagine. Being pregnant and married and having to like make the call to leave somebody, I can't even imagine making that decision. And when you've had no, when you, look, if it had been a number of events leading up to that, then I would have been like, oh, yeah, if he had shown any signs of being untrustworthy before in a way that had been in plain sight to me,

I mean, there were definitely moments which I can recall now, like a naked girl on his phone. that I found when I was pregnant also that was not like an Instagram pick. It was definitely one that he took. You know what I mean? So he was scared about the baby, so he had to go, fuck this. I'm just kidding. Yeah, well, there were lots.

And I mean, in that event, again, somebody's gaslighting you. And he was like, how dare you suggest that I would ever do something like that? Oh. So this is another, anyway, I'm bouncing around. So there were things that at the time, when somebody is making you feel crazy and you're already hormonal and pregnant. You think, well, I am being crazy. Yeah. Absolutely. So this all happens. I end up, he's like, I'm going to go to therapy, which is a big, which was like a big admission for him. And I'm going to sort everything out.

And I'm so sorry, I'll never do this again. And, you know, I've never, I just would never do that. And so I believed him like an idiot. So he was remorseful about like the lie. Yeah. I don't think you're an idiot. If somebody's shown no signs. of being distrustful. He fooled a lot of us. Right. Some people are pros. He's a pro. Oh, well, he's a pro. Yeah, he's a pro. He's a pro.

He's a pro. And I found out after the fact that he's done this to every single person he's been with. So anyway, or a majority of them. So everything goes back to normal for two weeks, normalish. And then during that time, I had texted Tim. And I said, look, you know, I'm Jason's wife. So again, made to feel like the absolute psycho being like, I just need to corroborate. My husband's whereabouts. I don't understand why he told me he was in L.A. when he was with you.

And he was like, well, he did come stay with me in Charleston, but he actually stayed at my studio, not at my house. And so I was like, dude, what? He even bothered to, like, corroborate his life? I don't know how much this guy knew. I think I'd be pretty naive. to think that he didn't know, but I think he was like half telling the truth, but like half, I don't know.

And so anyway, I get a text two weeks later saying, I'm going to give her another name. Hi, this is Ashley. Ashley. Hi, Amy, this is Ashley. I work with Tim, and I think we need to talk. Oh, God. And I just knew.

I just know. Oh, so this wasn't the girl. This was, no, this was the girl. Oh, this was the girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the girls. So I just, I just know, I just know. It was like, yeah.

And so she, this is just crazy. She worked with the guy that was supposed to corroborate the story. Like, how twisted is this? Oh, it gets worse. Oh, my God. Are you ready? So I just froze, like, my whole, you're just, it's just like, yeah. You have a physical reaction to it, of course.

Yeah, I was, I was packing up our apartment because we were, I was always supposed to have the baby in New Zealand at some point. So I was like getting rid of shit in our apartment. And so yeah, so I get this text and I just knew. And I called her immediately and she was horrified. But she didn't know he had a wife. She knew that he had an ex-wife who was pregnant. But she was very confused when I said that we had a home in New York.

She said that he had said that he didn't have a home in New York. and so her and I are on the phone and she's just, I could tell, she was just frozen as well. And I was, she was like, I've been sleeping with him for the past several months, like in all these different states. I'm so confused.

Like he was flying her around. They would meet, like, for work or... That was his girlfriend. She thought that was her boyfriend. I don't know if she thought he was a boyfriend, but, I mean, they were, she was sending me texts between them. Yeah.

And one of them was when I was, after that whole blava when he was like, I'm so sorry, I would never do that to you. And you know how he said he was staying at the standard. And he'd sent me a photo of the view and said, oh, we've got to stay here sometime. He sent the same thing to her.

So she sends me this photo and I was like, and I was like, oh, this is interesting. This is the same photo he sent me. Right after he's like, how's the baby scan? I mean, how do you turn into a person like this? I mean, I guess we can get to that. How do you become a person? Zosuabat. Like, how do you...

So, yeah, shocked. So we then, I'm on the phone to Ashley, and she's then, like, calling me, being like, FYI, he's just called me. Because I called him, and I said, look, I've just spoken to Ashley, like, have a great life. This is done. And, oh, God, she's told me everything. And so he was like, what?

No, like, it's a lie. And then he called her. So she was, she's on, like, this is like... She's on your team? She's on my team. She's like on my team. And so she called me and she was like, dude, he is just called me and said it's all a big misunderstanding. Of course. It's always a misunderstanding. Yeah. It's not a misunderstanding when you like put your dick in somebody a thousand times. It's not what it looks like. I mean, I assume he was trying to get her to, I don't know. I can't even, I couldn't keep up with that kind of life. And I don't want to like jump ahead, but you found out about other women. She was, you feel like you tugged on the thread a little bit and it all came undone. And so from there, I was very public about, you know, I was like, that's your lie. That's not my lie. Like, you know, you've hidden this for a really long time. I've got nothing to hide. I've done nothing wrong.

Right. And like, you know, I, yeah, so I just refused to subscribe to the fact that I'm, look, I'm not perfect. And like, like, like I've said, you know, we didn't have the most, like loving, connected relationship. But I wish that somebody had just been like, I don't know. You'd think, you'd just be like, I'm not happy. And I'd be like, okay. You know, so basically you tried to just be like, I haven't been happy and all that with you. There were a number of things when he arrived home that day. So we had basically one big blowout conversation that involved him saying, well, it was just once. And then we have Ashley, me, and him on a three-way phone conversation on speaker in my East Village apartment of him saying shit and her being like, what are you talking about? That's a total lie. He actually had the ball to get her on the phone and then lie about stuff to her face. This is so crazy.

So I had to get a lot of the facts from her. And then it went through, well, I've been such a good husband to you. You'd be nothing without me here. And so it kind of went from denial. And I was like, well, what was it? Like, do you love her? And he was like, no, she was just nice. And I was like, you don't do that for nice.

You know, and so they don't went to, you know, I've been a really good husband. and you're nothing without me. And then, yeah, so it just kind of went through the motions. There was no, and he did say sorry. He was like, oh, I'm sorry, but it was just, it was like sorry to save himself. And it was still caught up in so much other, I'm sorry, but. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, but I was a really great husband to you. I mean, there's just, I mean, whatever you guys, you can Google it.

Like there's a total pattern of the things these guys do, right? So it's like denial. They try their hardest to lie and see. if you'll buy it. And then it is, maybe mixed in there is genuine remorse. I'll go to therapy. I'll do what I need to do.

They throw like a Hail Mary of like therapy sometimes if they've never gone before. And then there's like, well, you'd be nothing without me. And they try to like, there's just all these layers of what they do. It's pretty textbook. So like,

you know, hopefully this episode and others like it are like showing women that like, you're not, this is all, it's what they do. There's like real patterns to this shit of like sociopathic behavior. And they all do the same things. Like if you were to tell a woman that had been through this,

she would have gone the exact same thing. Like, never believe it, never buy it. It's always that the other girl is crazy first. She made it all up. This is a huge misunderstanding. And then it's your crazy. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

And I know that that's still what is said about me. But you learn through this process that you cannot control what other people say about you. And I think something to note also is that people like this create their own reality to absolve themselves. Because on some tangible, level, they know that it's not, that that behavior is not okay. And therefore they create this construct within which they live where it is okay, where, you know, I maybe didn't deserve it,

but there was circumstantial things that give him permission to be that way. That you weren't nice enough. Yeah. They're too cold. Guys, they can't like deep down believe that they're bad guys. You just have to be a good guy. So they will make up whatever it takes in the delusions. Yeah. And from there, you know, I had a, I've, I've, few people come forward and say like, actually that's so weird. I saw him with this other woman. And then another person, I saw him with this other woman, but I thought, oh, they must just be like, this blonde girl, like, oh, I thought that must be you. I saw him kissing this girl on the street in New York. And I just could not, I just thought it must be. And again, you kind of are like,

what? And then another person say, oh, so and so who he works with, like a friend of hers, he's always trying to take her out and never mention that he was married. And then I had somebody else come forward and say your husband found me on Instagram. He flew to Ireland. He took me to Paris. And I had no idea about you. And then he was trying to get me to meet him in Spain. And this is all, and when I track back, this is like years back.

Okay. So that's what I wanted to ask you next. Yeah. How many, they just started to like fall out of the sky from years prior? Yeah. And a lot of it, you know, a lot of it was, you know, people saying a friend of a friend. I think there's people don't want to get caught up in other people's ugly. business, which I understand.

But it's funny, you know, those two women in particular, we still, you know, we all follow each other on Instagram. We all kind of like, it's like, it's like, there's that movie. The camera Diaz movie. It's such a good one.

The other woman. The other woman, yeah. And I just, they're great girls. You know, like they're these, like, lovely, I mean, for all I know, and they've been, they were so great. And there was such like a camaraderie with like, what a fucking asshole.

He probably is so beautiful about that because a lot of times that girl Ashley could have called you and been like, well, he's my man. You know, like, they can go a different way. But when you actually, when they're like, oh, no, let's team up and like figure this out. We're like on the same team. I think it's like a beautiful thing for women. It's a real testament to women. And I think I was lucky in the respect that at least I didn't have some girl being like, I mean, it's steel. Like that would have just been, that would have been really awful.

I mean, I just can't, I mean, the fact that this all happened, you're pregnant too. I mean, and then I moved to, thank God you had a healthy child. I mean, like, you know, like this could ruin people's pregnancy. I think there's also just like this real sense of like everybody knew but me. All these people were lying but me. Yeah, you feel like such a moron. And you're not a moron at all. You know, I just think that like, I'm glad that you don't come out of it feeling like that

because you're not. Like, it's just like you said, people don't want to be involved. And like that guy was talking about who I lived with who like was always cheating on me. everybody knew. All of my like secondary friends knew, his co-workers knew, people that I'd worked with knew. Nobody wanted to tell me because it's not comfortable being the person that tells somebody that. And I don't know that I would have reacted positively to it, to be honest. So I think that like, thank God you had enough really close people in your life that you didn't feel like every person has betrayed me. And I have nobody. Yeah, no. I, I didn't feel, yeah, I only really felt

betrayed by him. And then there was, there's just an inherent shame that comes with all of it. but I just tried to, and I definitely felt that, but I just didn't let that drive me. So it was definitely there because I have a lot of, I have a lot of people kind of saying, well, you know, I'm so ashamed and I'm embarrassed. And I was too, but I think the difference is that I just didn't let that shame win. Yeah, good. Great. So you guys are breaking up essentially while you're still pregnant and you had your son.

And then how was your son now? Almost two. Almost two. Okay. So this was like not that long ago. And then, I mean, long story short, like, what happened after that? You obviously got a divorce. Yeah.

And so he, a lot of kind of ugly stuff happened that. We don't need to get, like, into it. I just want to, like, button it up. No, of course. So we can talk about, like, post. I think, you know, I think what the difference, I could have almost just accepted, like, look, he has a disease or, you know, this is just the way that he is.

I think there are a number of situations after it all happened that really, really that for me in a lot of ways we're actually more telling about who he was, the way that that situation was handled in terms of having the baby and just a lot of the stuff that I'm dealing with now, you know, through the divorce and through the child situation that I think actually speak even more to his character as opposed to, you know, a lot of people's partners cheat, you know, and I think there's always that question of, well, you know, did I just marry somebody who's a cheater and a lot of people cheats. Or did I marry like a bad person? Or did I marry a bad person? And I, you know, I have to be really careful because I do want my son to,

you know, I never want to let what that person did to me influence a potential relationship that my son could have with him. And so everything I do is all about how, is all driven by trying to protect my son while also not damaging him. And, encouraging a relationship that is independent of what I experienced. So that has been really difficult. Can I ask you a question before you get too far along? The child's up because I think this is really important. How do you sort of reconcile the fact that you've been with somebody

and you just didn't know them at all? Like, do you feel like that person was just a master manipulator and there's nothing I really could have done? I think that it's interesting what it's told me. In some ways, it was like the cleanest breakup in terms of, you know, I'm done, bye. And then I came back to New Zealand and just needed that family support. But in terms of reconciling that, I never missed him. I never, and I think the fact that we live so far apart, you know, in our lives as such really helped with that in terms of, you know, I wasn't mourning

kind of a lost love. What I was really grieving was the fact that you almost betray, somewhere along the I betrayed myself by buying into something that I thought was okay. And it's really, and what I found also that added to that shame and that embarrassment is like how little I was able to accept from somebody who was supposed to be my partner. And that is actually the hardest thing because I look at photos of myself. I look like a different person. I just have, like my face looks different. Like I can't describe it, but there was, I was not as open and I wasn't as loving and I wasn't as, you know, to, I wasn't as open with myself or true to myself. And I think that that's really reflected and, or it was a product of that relationship. And so in terms of, well, how do you get

over that and how do you reconcile it? You go through all the motions and you, in terms of looking at every single, or what did I miss and what, you know, you put the pieces together first. And then once you kind of have the pieces together, the damage of it shows up and continues to show up. So I don't think it's something that you ever completely get over. It's almost like I got over him immediately as it happened, but the residual damage of that betrayal still comes up. You know, I'm super anxious a lot of the time and I have crazy trust, you know, it takes a lot, it's taken a lot for me to trust somebody else. So it's all the ways that it shows up. And I think that, being pregnant as well and when you're so vulnerable and you have somebody dismantle your

entire sense of security that takes a lot of time. Also, like you were in your 20s. Like, I mean, it's just like, I didn't know myself at 22. So the fact that this happened at 22 and then this person just became your reality, how would you have ever known anything different? Like, so gradual. Like, yeah, like that is your life. Like, I don't know. It's like, I understand what you're saying, though. Like, how could I've settled for for this? It's like, because I was 25. five, you know? And nothing against younger girls, but like, I'm a totally different person now that I was 10 years ago. I'm glad it happened to you so young.

And you're super young and you have the whole rest of your life. You have this great new relationship. Like, it was just like, I don't know. The age has a ton to do with it. I think so. And I try and look back at that girl with a lot of forgiveness and compassion, you know? Of course. Well, if you know, we say like, you know, if nobody's ever really loved you,

how do you know what to look for in like a loving relationship? and if no one's ever treated you super well, how do you know what being treated well feels like? And I think I had, you know, like I'd had boyfriends before who were like some, you know, like two of which I, you know, great guys who did truly love me, I think. But in terms of the commitment and the length of time that marriage involves, it was, it was,

and that kind of, you know, living together like, and building, I'd never built a life with anybody before. I think by the time, you know, typically in a marriage, you've maybe lived with an ex-boyfriend before or you've for a few years or you've, you know, you've had more experience in building and living a life. And while I definitely had boyfriends who loved me, it was, I was really young. When you're 18? I mean, I was like 19. Exactly. So you're like, yeah. So you just, you didn't know. You didn't know. And then New York presents a very different lifestyle for like two young married people as well.

With no convention, you know. No one's out here doing it. Are you, so are you full custody for the most part. So my son lives in New Zealand. New Zealand and then his biological father comes to visit him. Okay. We want to move in, move on to just like for time. We could sit here and talk to you for hours upon hours. Like my heart rates up.

My heart's being fast. I'm so pissed. I'm glad that I talked about all that. But I want to. You're in any relationship now. We want to get to that. But we wanted to talk about the in between of being a single mom and letting someone into, first of all,

letting someone into your life, but letting someone into your son's life. And sounds like you didn't have to do that for two. You've been with your partner now for like nine months? No, just over a year. It's like a year and three months or so. So we got together when my son was about six months old. Okay. Yeah.

In New Zealand. Yeah, New Zealand. Did you start dating? Like, when did you start dating again? I started dating when about like two months after I had my son. Okay. girl. How did you get out there?

Look at her body. She's so hot. Sounds like you bounce back pretty quick. I've never looked this good in my life. I've never even had a kid. You were stunningly beautiful. I remember the night I met you, I'm like, who is this? I was like, fuck her.

And she's got an accent. I hate her. And now you're hearing. Beautiful blonde hair. Perfect body. Fuck you. You're out on the town. Get out of the same.

Every single mom, I know, two months in. Can't even leave the house. She's got, still got baby weight. She's wearing sweat. You're like, you know what? I'm hitting the town. Can I come over every day? You guys are amazing. No, I was just so...

Look, I had like everything taken away. I literally lived in my little brother's room with a suitcase and a crib next to me. He got kicked out. And I went from... And like paying my parents rent, right? And this tiny suburb of Auckland. And I went from living like in New York and like downtown Manhattan running my business, like had my shit together.

You're like a teen mom. And then I was like, I'm literally on teen mom. I'm literally on teen mom. This is a crazy thing. Like, I'm living in a closet in New Zealand. And like all of my shit is in storage in like Manhattan mini storage. I'm trying to piece my business together and like maintain my visa and like grow a baby on the side. And continue to.

And like naturally this happened at the busiest like time of my business. I had to fly to San Francisco host all of these events. just like pregnant and like what is going on. Yeah. Came back to New Zealand. So anyway, dating. I have my baby and that's a whole thing. Like, honestly, there's no easy way to get a baby out.

It was like 30-hour labor. I had a stroke. Oh, God. I had a really like a last minute C-section emergency. And then all of this stuff was going on with my ex in the background. So just in terms of like him. Of course, I can imagine. Was he there for the?

No. For the delivery now. No. Okay. But I like Tristan Thompson show up. No. Oh my God. I bet you could relate when that was happening.

I don't know how closely you follow the Kardashians. I remember being in the car and listening and being like, Chloe, I got you girl. Right. If anyone can understand. Yeah. And I was like, yeah. Oh, yeah. But anyway, okay, so you had the baby in New Zealand and then.

And then I started dating two, yeah, about two months after the baby. And I, you know, it was like, again, it wasn't like, I had a baby. So it wasn't like I was like raging out on the town. It was very. And I was bracefeeding, so it's not like I could, you know, I would go and have like two glasses of wine. And, you know, and that was kind of the extent. And it was really, you know, it was just a really nice recalibration of the self because I was recreating who I was. And I, you know, I'd gone from being a wife and a business owner in New York to a teen mom and living in a closet in New Zealand.

So I had to, you know, get some of that power back. Did you tell people right away? We always say, like, is it a red flag if somebody doesn't tell you on a first date that they're a parent? Wait, you were breastfeeding. Oh, I definitely was like, I have a baby. So they knew when your tips started leaking at dinner probably. That's how you told him. And I mean, like my, I've, like my Instagram was covered in babies, man.

Like, I was always, sorry to me interrupt you right? Very much, like, you weren't hiding it. No, no. I think, you know, what do you put on your Raya profile? That's, you know, that's another conversation. But it was funny, you know, I think that also when I was single, there was no online dating. You know,

there was so, so all of a sudden, I'm like launched, I'm like projectile launched into this like whole new world. Totally. And I was kind of horrified by it. I was like,

oh my God. Like, this is how people, this is what people do these days, you know? It was very, very interesting. So,

no, I was very upfront about the fact that I had a baby. I was like, yeah, I have a baby. What are you going to do about it? And how did this guy come along?

Was it an app? No. So my current partner and I, we met, and it's funny, because I had a few flings and I was like and they all knew that I had a kid but it was all very casual

and there's no way that I would have ever introduced my son to you know it wasn't I think one of them mentions something about like oh I think there's like a kid and I was like oh I don't think I ever saw it when I was like even somebody else talking about my kid I was like no it was almost like it was kind of out of bounds I didn't like to discuss it was just so precious

and mine and like a really a really protected part of my life yeah but when I met my current boyfriend. It was so different. It was like I didn't mind talking. I mean, I was still kind of hesitant. You know, I wasn't like showing him all the baby photos on my phone, but I was more comfortable around, you know, being open about my son. And so I met him at a mutual friend's drinks, like in real life, you know, totally out of

the blue. And it was actually on the anniversary of the night that, uh, everything was found out and made me and my mom went to go celebrate and have dinner. Oh my God. Oh my God. Yeah. And I'm just curious, like, how do you figure out, like, when you can introduce, like, a kid to your partner? Like, is there, like, a conversation that you have?

I think for me, it was, I don't know. I really, I was kind of like, well, I really, like, fell in love, like, seriously, like, so quickly with this guy. And, but obviously, that's a debate. That's an internal debate. It's one that you have with, well, not even internal. You talk about it with, you know, the people close to you.

And I remember, you know, the first few times he kind of stayed at my place. I got up really early in the morning. Your parents, please? No, no, no, no. I had my own place. In her brother's bedroom. He was in the other closet. And I put my kid in the drawer.

He slept next to the Chris. Oh, my God. And like, shh, the baby's sleeping. No, I kind of made him when I just stopped brace feeding. So it was that, you know, that would be so weird. I guess your kid was an infant, though, so you don't think as much about it because they won't, he wouldn't have remembered a boyfriend. Yes, that's a good call.

I didn't think about that. He's not remembering who's been. Also, like, I just love what you said that you felt comfortable immediately. That's a real thing. Like any, you know, successful relationship I've had, it's, you find yourself immediately telling people stuff about your life. I don't have a kid. I obviously can't relate.

I'm not even comparing. and my dog having a kid. I'm just saying like you feel comfortable immediately. They feel at home. Like if when it's right, it's right. Like the fact that the thought of him meeting, the other guy meeting your kid made you cringe to like this guy. You just want to invite him into your life.

That's like a very positive sign that someone's a good match for you. And it was also not even to do with my kid. I'm like, you're like a potato. You're not going to remember anything. It was more, it was honestly in the beginning. It was like me. I was like, I don't want him to be exposed to my, real life, which is not glamorous.

It's changing diapers and it's like sterilizing bottles and it's like routine, you know, it's like it's led by when my son goes to sleep and when he needs to eat. And like all of these things that aren't sexy. And so I think for me in the beginning, I was like, if he sees me changing a diaper, then think about the first few months when you're with the first few weeks, months. Right. When you're with this guy, you always have makeup on. You always look great.

You always like, you know, you look amazing. You're not covered in. You look like a baby show. And then going from that to, like, being covered in spew is just so real. Uh-huh. Yeah. And I guess there's a fear that, like, it makes you unsexy. Yeah.

A person that's not your husband. And it's like a newborn. Who doesn't know you. Right. And it doesn't make you unsexy. I just want to, like, I'm just saying, I think there's probably a fear that it does. But it obviously didn't scare him away. It didn't.

I think so the first, like, few mornings he stayed, you know, over those first kind of few weeks or whatever it was. that I think I would like siphon my son out the door, you know, first thing in the morning and we'd go like in his pram and we'd like go for like an hour long walk and I'd be like, okay, see you let, you know, and I do remember the one, the first day that he met my son was, he kind of came down the stairs to meet me and he helped carry the stroller up the stairs. I lived in a walk up. And I was like, yeah, this is, this is him. And, you know, my partner was young. He was 26 when I met him. He'd never spent time around kids.

And he... This guy now? He's younger? Yeah, he is. He's 28. You have two kids. I'm kidding. I do, actually.

Sorry. I don't like getting. Sorry, I know that you're going to be listening to this at some point. Ashley and I like younger men, so... The younger the better. 28's a little old for me, to be honest. No, I'm just kidding. It's a nice sweet spot for me.

But yeah, so... And, you know, there comes a point where I, at the beginning, was like, well, I was kind of like, okay, well, this is my. life and if you're going to if you're going to love me or fall in love with me or like you know know me then this is I want you to know me right there's no hiding it you can't hide the biggest heart of your life like so you know in the beginning I'd have I'd you know my parents are really you know I'm really close to my parents they've been really um instrumental in raising my son and just help being there and being my community so that would anyway they would like have my son

sometimes for the night so I could like go out for dinner or but slowly that turned into like well we can't keep like siphoning him away but you know so slowly he was around him more and then and then slowly he became more involved with him for him and now he is the most incredible father to my son oh god does he live with you guys zero to 100 yeah yeah we live together okay and how does your like son interact with him they're like very like playful and like father sonly. Yeah, like he's, he's very much, um, wait, if you guys like end up together, that's just going to be your son's dad. I'm like crying. You know, like, you know, like, the kids are like, their parents aren't married, but they're like, this is the only dad I've ever known. He's, like,

that's going to be how it is. Like, that's going to be his dad. He's really wonderful. He loves him so much. And, you know, there's always risk. I think, like, even as I'm saying this right now. I'm like, oh my God, you know, if something happened, and then five years down the track, I'm listening to this podcast, and I brought this person to my child's life. And so there, you know, and then what if it doesn't work out? And there's all of that fear, but there also is a lot of trust in this human being that I'm with, who I am just so in love with and feel such a connectivity that I've never felt with anybody before. And his family is incredible. And, you know, it's not all perfect. And there are definitely things we've had to deal with. But I feel

very, very grateful. You know, he comes home from work and he's straight to my son. You know, they have their little routine of, like, their time to hang out. And he's a really devoted man in terms of, like, the time he spends with us and the love he gives us.

I think that's so beautiful. He's really hot and really tall. He is really hot. Oh, please, I stalk you so hard. What? Oh, I do shock him out. Okay, we'll get my phone in one second. We can look at him.

But I just want to say, like, You said in five years, if you listen back to this and you're like, oh, my God, what was I saying? Like, I think if you look back and it made you happy for the time being and your son happy, then you did all the right things that you could have done. And, like, I come from a family that, like, my parents divorced when I was four, and my mom was engaged to somebody for a very, like, five years or was with him for five, six years. And I don't, she didn't end up with him. She ended up with my stepfather who she's been with for more than 20 years.

But I don't think she did anything wrong to me by introducing me to this person that she was in love with for the time being and was good to me and was nice to me then. And it didn't work out, and that's not my mom making bad decisions for me. You know? So it didn't work out for you guys. It wouldn't be you making bad decisions for your son. It sounds like you're making great decisions for your son. I think so.

And like I have, you know, complete faith in this relationship. I think just from what I've been through, there's... Of course, you've got to have some PTSD. Yeah. And I think that's normal with any relationship, though, you know, regardless or irrespective of what you've been through before, there's always a little like, oh my God, what if like one day he waits? And I used to the thing like, what if he wakes up one day and thinks,

you know, I don't want this life anymore. And I think that's a really interesting thing to grapple with is, you know, when you have a child, there's a part of you that always feels like a liability or like your baggage to somebody. So, because they are taking on, I'm a package deal. You know, I'm like, my son is my world. And so there is always that like, is he, you know, and that's all, like, that's not derivative of his behavior or anything. It's just your own insecurities as a human and as a mother. But no, we're really, yeah, we're happy. And we like kind of navigate this.

The whole situation and the dynamic is difficult in terms of the ex and the visitation and like the, and just dealing with the fact that, you know, he has now signed up to my ex pretty much, be like, you know, by default. So now he has to deal with this person. And that comes with its own challenges. and so I'm always just trying to kind of navigate my relationship with my partner and then making sure that, you know, we're good. And then it's just, there's a lot of moving parts.

Well, it's life. Exactly. I'm just like it is what it is. So you feel like you ever, like, tested him in a way that you were like, are proud of or not proud of to just make sure he was like all in. Not going to scare easily. Yeah. No, I'm not a tester.

but I do think that I've been really keenly aware of what I want from a relationship now, I think because I've been given this chance to kind of do it right. And I've always been very clear about what, about boundaries and black and white. Like I just don't, I don't want to be with somebody who's like messaging other girls or like has some sort of gray area with like being flirtatious or, I mean, look, there's a difference between being flirtatious and effusive and like, I just don't have time for certain things. And, you know, I've made that clear.

But that's also never been an issue. Well, God, touch wood, like as far as I know. You know, but it's... So, no, I don't think I've ever tested him. I think that we've definitely had our fair share of, you know, figuring things out together. But I think that's normal. And I think the biggest thing for me has been,

and I think, Raina, this is something that we talked about that night at the bar was, you know, what's a flaw versus a red flag. And that's been really difficult for me because I've come from a relationship where there was a real lack of connectivity. And so now, and we didn't fight. And so now I'm like, okay, you know,

my current partner and I, we do argue sometimes. And I'm always like, is this normal? And like, you know, he's very strong minded. And, you know, there are certain things where I'm like, is that okay or is that just, he's just a human being? Or, you know, what am I choosing to accept? Uh-huh. And that is always at the end of the day, the question that we all should be asking ourselves

because that's what you, you know, you get what you accept. So it's like, what am I okay with? And everybody's going to have their difficulties or their flaws. And it's just deciding what you can live with. I don't know a healthy couple in my world that says they don't fight. Like it almost seems like that's the red flag to me. Like I don't know. Yeah.

Like how you were like we didn't fight. It's like, yeah, that guy's not going to. fight with you, he's cheating on you. You know what I mean? And I'm not saying that that's always the case, but like, do you know a couple that ever says we don't fight? I mean, first of all, if you say that, you might be lying. Like, you might be like, oh, our relationship's

so perfect, we don't fight, but like, it's just natural. Like, it is. It's so interesting that you say that. Of like, this relationship where this guy was living, like, double, triple lives. Of course you guys weren't fighting. Well, I think you're just not being honest. If you're not fighting with a person, they're not like, there's no passion. For whatever reason.

Like, maybe they're cheating on you, so they refuse to pick a fight with you or like my fiance and I never fought for three years is I don't think either of us was able to like verbally quantify how we felt so we were just like we just won't right you know but he's like but then I'll just leave you the engagement party yeah that'll work that's the master plan

I'll be fine it's going to be fine I haven't fought for three years she's going to be fine I'm a hit her with all three years of fighting today just in one fell swoop just you'll never see it coming oh my God well Amy this has been so

wonderful. Thank you so much. This is therapy. I think you hit on a lot of things that we haven't talked about before and like forgiving yourself and being a new parent and having partners in your in your parenthood. And I just, it's such a like, it's just, man, what a ride. What a ride. And that was such like the, that was like the cliff notes of my life as well. Of course. Yeah. Well, we could obviously talk to you for hours. But we're going to, we do a little segment. So you guys stick around after we say about Amy. But we want you to like plug all your things like your, tell us even a little bit more about, I mean, Raina gave a quick synopsis, but I mean, we'd love to know a little bit more about what you do. It seems like it's aligned with what

our goals are. For sure. So, okay, real is a community. It is a, it's a business that I built out of wanting to figure my life out. And so I started asking the people around me, specifically women, how they figured theirs out. And that, you know, in my plight to do that for myself, these answers inevitably started to help other women. And so the business grew in that way. It was originally just a content platform, and then we developed programming. So hosting events and panels, workshops with big brands, small brands,

some of which you'll recognize, like the Nikes and the Mattels and that kind of thing. And then these really incredible lifestyle, smaller brands who are looking to do that same thing and cultivate community. We host mentorship circles. We are also launching our first online course, which is all about how to create your own community through mentorship. And I have just been so lucky to have that privilege of New York where you're surrounded by so many fantastic people and we're so lucky to kind of bounce ideas and connections

off of one another. And so that's what OK Real kind of strives to do. And what I hope to do with this course, which will teach you how to kind of foster those own connections for your life. And I think, you know, to kind of sum it up, my community throughout all of this was really a safety net. And they just lifted me up. And so I was really shown how powerful it is to have people around you who will fight for you. And so I've just witnessed that in real time. And, you know, when all of this came out, I just had this incredible community. And I was like, oh, that's what I did this for. I love it. Yeah. So,

you're making your career for the rest of the way. I want to like galvanize that and like pass the torch to other women so they can also. I'm not saying that terrible things are going to happen to you and therefore like rally your people. Everybody's going to go through some shit. I can't. To be able to take that and to like cataport yourself into having this great life and using your story to inspire other people. I mean, that's the beautiful thing that you do. Okay.

So what's the Instagram and the website? Yeah. So mine is Amy O-M-E-O-H-M-Y. and yeah mostly baby spam selfies etc and then my business is so okay real is hey okay real okay and then the website is okay reel dot CO okay R-E-A-L yeah dot CO yeah okay well great you guys check all that stuff out I love it I just think it's kind of what we try to do here on on some level it's just empower women get them to rally around each other tell their stories so you guys are great this has been so fun thank you so much thank you for sharing your story it was

really beautiful and moving. And stick around guys for a few minutes. We're going to do our own little segment, just me and Ashley. All right, BRB. Thank you. Bye. All right, we're back with an appropriate game, how I knew he wasn't the one. This is one of my favorite things we've ever done. I feel like it was too short last time. I feel like there was so much we didn't talk about. And I just thought this would be like a super fun way to like lighten it up and laugh about. Yeah. So you can know he's not the one if he's cheated on you with multiple partners. But we're going to talk about the funnier and lighter. sides of this. Yes.

So as always, this was, we're still working on the first time we crowdsourced this. So you guys can always email us, hello,

what girls's gutty podcast. com, but these are, some of these are still from the very first Instagram side we put up. There was just so many.

So we're so excited to get to do more. We didn't get to enough last time. That's my dream. Okay, I want to start with this one. This would be the end of it.

So how he knew how I knew he wasn't the one, how I knew it wasn't the one? What are we saying? We don't remember the name of what I think it was how I knew it wasn't real, but how I know it wasn't D1. Either or. Okay.

This is so for me. When we went out for a hangover brunch, after a night out, I got hash brown mac and cheese. I'm a monster, okay? And he just got an Earl Grey tea. She writes, sorry, what are you 80? Do you hate me? Is that why you did that? Do you hate me?

Okay, like, I know it's funny, but yes, 100% you know that person's not going to be for you. That is abusive, okay? That is food shaming. at its finest. Yeah. I get, you've dealt with something like this. I did. Well, I dated somebody who like, I'm not going to make a big deal about it, but like who like would make fun in me for the amount I ate it. And like, I didn't like it. And if we're at brunch on a Sunday and I order hash brown mac and cheese, which Jesus Christ, I want that so bad. Just let me live. An Earl Grey Tea? Who are you? What happened to you in your childhood? What is your

stomach? Who hurt you? How, your body hates you if you're doing that. Even your body and Ashley and I hate you. Yeah. Okay. I don't know how to go about this one. All right. Okay, we went to a theme park to spend the day with my friends. On the way, we must have hit a bird because it was stuck in the grill of his car. Obviously, I'm not happy this happened, but also like shit happens.

So after we realize this, while arriving at the theme park, this dude starts to cry, full on bawling. He was beside himself. Boner killer for sure. I picked the dead bird up and threw it into the nearby woods. She's so savage. She ripped a bird out of the grill in his dude's car and throws it in the woods while he's He's crying. He's just standing on the gravel, just crying.

Can you imagine? He, like, drops to his knees on the pavement of the theme park parking lot. He's like, no. He's like, we didn't even give it a proper burial. Oh, my God. Okay, I love birds. Like, we're big bird family. You know, my mom has, like, all her bird feeders.

Like, we're, I just still don't even think, like, this would affect me in that way. Like, it sucks, but it wouldn't be crying. I mean, it's just, he didn't do it on purpose. Right. He was just crying. Like, we're supposed to have a fun day where Disney World She'd go, like, walk in and see her friends, too. Like, do you...

I would want to tell you so bad, what did just happen? What if you tried to be all, like, sad about it? Like, he's like, I'm fine, I'm fine. Like, he was still, like, crying. They're like, what's wrong with you? He was like, nothing. I would have been, like, we had a fight. We had a huge fight in the parking lot.

Don't fucking tell them about the bird. Okay, this made me laugh. When he told me, I wasn't allowed to have any emotions for the rest of the year, and it was February. I mean, what does that mean? Well, he was probably joking. She maxed out the feelings for the year. She hit her quota.

She went hard in the first 60 days. She went hard in the feelings paint. She just. Like, you're out. Rina, you're not allowed to say you go hard in the pain. Do that make sense? No, leave that to me. That's my phrase.

That's where I draw the line. You can adopt some of my phrases, but leave the sports references to me. I was trying to see if I appropriately worked it in. She went. She went hard in the pain, Q-1. Did it make sense? It doesn't matter. You're not allowed to say.

The only sports reference I know is he outkicked his coverage. And you got that for me too. No, no, I got that from an ex-boyfriend. Did he outkick his coverage? Everybody who dates me out kicked their coverage. Okay. This one is so fucked up. Okay.

How I know it wasn't real when he pointed to the model on the cover of a woman's health magazine and said, you could look like that if you wanted to. Oh, my God. I would never know how to respond to that. I don't know. like, he probably meant it in a different way. It's like men just don't know. Like, I feel like I would look at the cover of a magazine and be like,

I could look like that if I wanted to. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you can think that it was a compliment. Maybe he was like, you're so sexy. Like, you could look like a model if you, like, worked out once. Yeah, like, I don't think he was saying I don't like the way you look now. You know what I mean? I think you're right.

Like, if I was really close with my partner and I knew that he, and I mean, I love my body and I'm confident in it and I knew that he loved my body and thought I was super sexy, but there was a similar version of me on the cover of magazine, but she was, like, ripped. Like, she had the actual, like, six-pack, and he was like, you could look like that if you wanted to. I think I would take it as a compliment. Like, if I actually cared

enough to, like, do all the work to get the six-pack, I would look like that. I don't know. It depends on who you're man is. I don't know why we're analyzing this so deeply. No, if you're dating one of those like, no fat chicks kind of guys, then, like, yeah, that's an insult, and that person's also terrible. But, like, if you're dating or thinks you're sexy anyways, yeah, maybe it's not an insult.

Okay, well, this next one is definitely disgusting. and sort of insulting. When he was telling another story about tripping in a music festival, Strike 1, to my friends, when he saw a picture of a girl with a white bikini on the wall and said, I like when girls wear white bikinis

because it shows off their pussy. This was the first time he was meeting my friends. I was sitting right next to him. I have never wanted to set myself on fire more in my life. Can you imagine? Okay. You bring a dude out to meet all of our friends. I don't know. All right. Let's just

He means it seriously. Let me mansplain for a minute. Thank you. As the man in this room. I don't know this guy's personality, but I don't know for certain that if I wasn't in a group of guys and I was trying to be funny that I wouldn't be like, I love a gray sweatpants because it shows off a dick out line. You see something like that. I say unbelievably disgusting things, but I'm a girl. It just sounds different. Listen, I think it sucks. And that was the first time meeting the friends. You don't do that. I don't even think I'd bring up.

the gray sweatpants dick outline in front of friends I'm meeting for the first time. I mean, you know me. I'm the captain of say things to make other people feel uncomfortable. I just love it so much. I wouldn't even do that shit. Why am I out here defending these men? Okay. This one next one's for you.

You can't defend this one. He said, who's Lizzo, had never heard of Lizzo. How? How? Where do you live? How could you turn on the television and not who that is? Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to think, like, if you're just one of those really absent, like, she's not Beyonce.

You know, like, I don't know if my dad knows who Lizzo is. But this guy's not your dad's age. True. But, you know, some people are just, listen, it's unacceptable. I'm not saying it. I guess I could understand. I mean, yes, well, somebody didn't know who Beyonce was. Okay, this made me laugh so hard.

Because it's my favorite show. When he told me the best character from the office was Andy. Do you get the reference? Yeah, I know which one Andy is. Okay. But is it really that, do you feel like it's really that offensive? I don't. I think that, like, if Toby was really,

your favorite character or creed. But like Andy, I don't know. I think there's like a place for that character in the office. It's like a ridiculous character. I don't like that when he became the boss. They completely changed his personality. It was a different character. It's very weird that that's your favorite character.

Who would your favorite character be? I mean, Jim. Yeah? Right? Isn't that, I mean, I love Jim. I don't know. Ryan and Kelly together, like, their dynamic is my favorite character dynamic. Yeah.

Because she is so, like, she fakes a pregnancy. Yeah, yeah. Like, she is so ridiculous. I mean, she might be one of my fish. She's not a main character. I mean, it's so cliche, but Michael Scott's the best character of all time. Right, absolutely. Like, he's your favorite.

Right. You can't not be your favorite. Like, he's the best character of all time on any show. Absolutely. And it stands on its own. Like, Pam, I don't like, Pam, Pam sucks as a character. It makes sense in the role, but she sucks as a character. I mean, I know Jim is like the hot male protagonist, whatever,

but I just, like, I love the dryness. Like, I'm obsessed with him as a person. I mean, he's, like, I love my life. I feel like deep down. Jam? Jim's so hot. Dwight, too. Dwight's a method actor.

Dwight, like, did that stuff, like, in real life. He would just, like, go home to his family and act like that. Oh, my God. Okay. Oh, my God. I'm so glad to get to read this one. This one. It's so ridiculous.

Okay. You read it first. Okay. I knew it wasn't real when I tried to make travel plans for the upcoming summer and he said, I've already traveled the world. Why would I need to do that again? We could just Google it. I've already traveled one.

How pretentious is that first of all I've already traveled the world? Then being like, okay, so you don't want to like try with me. First of all, I know for a fact. If I'm right, whoever wrote this girl, email us. I know this guy didn't travel the world. This guy went to Thailand once. And because he went that far, he was like, I've already traveled the world. He went to Thailand once.

Maybe he popped over to Bali. I know who this person is. You know what I'm saying? He spent a semester abroad in Florence, Italy. Went to Costa Rica once. and he's not going back. He ate at a Cuban restaurant in New York. He was like, I've traveled the world.

He was like, I've traveled the world. There are people like that, though. I asked somebody the other day on a date. Like, you know, my number one question is, if you could go anywhere regardless of like time of year and price, where would you go? And I will not go out on a date with somebody for certain answers after.

Yeah. I don't know. That's a hard answer. Okay. Caribbean Cruise. Nope. Caribbean Cruise is one of them. Yeah.

I knew he was the one while running an errand. He said, if anyone asks, you're my sister. What? What? And you still went on the errands? Like, records screeches. What? What?

Sir, what? I hope she was driving. She slammed on the brakes. The fuck out of the car. Okay, this one's short and sweet. He voted for Brexit. God, man, I remember we went to London the two weeks after that. Oh, really?

The exchange rate was. Pandemoneum. The exchange rate was fire. Okay. And the last and final one, it made me laugh so hard. It's so ridiculous. He had never heard of Prague and didn't know who John Mayer was. Those are so wildly different, both really weird.

Okay, you never heard of Prague. Never heard of it. Just, it's a place. I understand that maybe you didn't hear about John Mayer somehow, maybe. Yeah. Prague is a pretty well-known place. Yeah. Right?

I don't know, because, like, my best guy from high school lives there. So that's, like, I knew about it probably early. like, it's not Italy, but yeah, I feel like most people know Prague. It's not like an A-list city in terms of like where everybody is like, I have to go there. Like, I don't want to say like A-Lis B. It's not like everybody goes to Paris, Rome, Florence. But like, yeah, I mean, like the secondary cities you visit, that's there. They've got to be young.

Like, can you imagine being like this time I was in Prague and you're on a day with somebody who goes, what's Prague? No. Can you imagine? No, I can't imagine. Having to explain to somebody what Prague is, I feel like it's. It's a place. It's a city.

In Europe. In the Czech Republic. Look at you. Geography major. I mean, I've been. I would hope that I know what it is. I went there. I loved it.

I went to Berlin. That's when I went to Prague. We went to Berlin. They're close, right? Yeah, we took the train. I think I took the train. I went to Switzerland on that trip too. Nice.

Most expensive place I've ever been. Can't afford to ever go back. $65. I go bankrupt in Switzerland. John Mayer. That's so funny. How? That.

is actually like really like Lizzo I honestly can understand a little bit more like because I will say this you really do live in like a little bit in a little bit of a bubble like music wise so there's like crazy famous country singers that I that are crazy famous that when like CMAs and I just don't know who they are like if there's I'm sure you could say a huge country singer's name right now and I would be like who I feel like that's the main ones but I still think that's like a little more niche like John Mayer is like that's what I'm saying one more understandable John Mayer or come on. I mean, like,

everybody knows. The Super Bowl, like, I feel like, you know, that's, like, not knowing who, like,

a really, whatever. I just, I feel like I really, not on a huge level, but the person I date, I like them to just be, like, a little more involved

in pop culture, personally. Like, I just want somebody to know who, like, the mainstream, TV, movie, the basic music stuff is. Low level shit.

Yes, low level shit. Lizzo is low level shit to me. But, okay, maybe you're not like me, but John Mayer's low level. Prague also. Prague, Prague also.

These were amazing. Yeah, these were so funny. Yeah, guys, as always, email us, subject line, how I know it wasn't real. And we say this every week as of recently. We want to continue that if you're coming to a live show, we just announced new ones. Again, we announced Texas last week.

Give us your crazy, funny dating stories. Name of the city you're coming to in the subject line. And if there's two nights, right, which night. So, thank you. Like, you know, Boston, there's two nights. D.C., there's two nights. Houston. Yeah, New York, Chicago.

So just, like, clarify the date and the city. We cannot explain to you how much fun we've been having with these live shows. It's like our favorite thing we've been doing recently. And stupidliveshows.com, girls guttypodcast.com for the show tickets, merch, follow us at girlsgattypodcast.com on Instagram, girls underscore got to eat on Twitter.

Ash Hess on Instagram, reina. combeck on Instagram. And have a happy Thanksgiving. And we'll see you next week. Happy holidays, guys. See you next week.