Girls Gotta Eat - Your Brain, Body, and Libido on Birth Control feat. Sarah Hill, PhD

Episode Date: May 30, 2022

Let's dive into one of the great joys of being a woman: Birth control! We are joined by Dr. Sarah Hill, evolutionary psychologist and author of the book This is Your Brain on Birth Control, to discuss our menstrual cycles and all the ways we are affected by birth control. We're getting an education in all things hormones, PMS, sex drive, the way we pick partners when we're on birth control vs. off, whether birth control affects fertility, how to choose what's best for your body, and more. Before Sarah joins us, we're discussing female-led proposals and how soon to program someone into your phone. Enjoy! Follow Sarah on Instagram @SarahEHillPhd, and visit her website to buy her book, read articles, and more. Follow us @GirlsGottaEatPodcast, Rayna @Rayna.Greenberg, and Ashley @AshHess. Visit our website for tour dates, merchandise, and more. Thank you to our partners this week: Wildgrain: Get $30 off your first box PLUS free croissants in every box at wildgrain.com/gge and use code GGE to start your subscription. Helix: Get up to $200 off all mattress orders plus 2 free pillows at helixsleep.com/gge. Nutrafol: Get $15 off your first month's subscription plus free shipping at nutrafol.com/gge. Tushy: Get 10% off + free shipping at hellotushy.com/gge. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Birth control isn't bad. It's different. And you have to figure out what's going to work for you best. And everything comes with tradeoffs. What up? Girls got to eat. Welcome back. I am perched on the edge of the couch. Zool sitting behind me today. He just curled up around me. It was sweet. You said go to Aunt Raina and he didn't. I was also trying to play with George. And he took one look at his old and ran away from me. No one French is more than a soul of George. Wait, how old is George? He's two. Is Azul his first tongue kiss?

When he was 14? That sounds about right. He just, Azole walks in, if you guys don't know, George is Bella's dog. Bella has been, she's been featured a lot recently. I know you guys want us to mic her up. We'll have her eye here soon. She's going to talk about the ick and she's going to talk about working for us for one year. Yeah.

It's always on your anniversary, Val. Yes. I mean, I think Azul really like. George, but he doesn't want the tongue in his mouth at all the way that at the frequency that George. No one plays it less cool than George. I was just like hugging on George's face and he ripped his body out of my body to run over to his old. No one is thirstier than George. He doesn't play cool with with George. Got it. Yes. No. It's like, it's like, what not to do is the way George acts with Azul. I know. Our advice has always been do nothing and George is like, but what I'm

going to do is everything. Zool is how you should act. I know. Can't be bothered. Dewey too. I know how to play. Dewee would have ripped George's head off by now. Okay, you guys, happy Memorial Day and happy what I forgot to say last week.

And I'm very upset. Happy Gemini season. Oh, yeah. I'm very upset. I missed it. I get trolled every year about cancer season every week for four weeks. So we're doing it. Gemini season.

I was reading about it this morning about like who. their best friend matches are. And one of them was a Libra, which like tracks who so many of my friends and your friends are Libra's. My second tier friends. Who's your first tier? Aries and Bergo. There's not one group that is so dominant in my friend group. I guess Gemini, because it's like you, Rob, you know. What's Kate? Capricorn is the first of the year? Yes. Yeah. Capricorn, Corey, is a tourist. So you got a mixed bag. Who else? Who are my other best friends? Meryl is a Libra. Scorpio. She is?

I double-check these days today. Yeah, Marilyn's birthday's right at Halloween. She's right after Libra. Okay. So my number ones are Libra and Virgo and Ares. You're my only cancer, but you're my number one. Well, my whole family. So you're other family.

My other family. And I'm... Also my dad. So you would say some of the most important people in your life. And it said the sworn enemy you should never date as a Gemini and Sagittarius, which tracks because half the people. people I'm obsessed with their Sagittarius men. It's always wrong. Never works out. Yeah, there's never, you do have a thing for them and every single time I'm like, don't do it. Don't get on this road.

Yes. They're all the same type of Sagittarius. Yes, they're a green aura, Sagittarius. Yeah. They're all bad. What was your ex? Um, the most recent one is a Leo. I feel like no one has anything bad to say about Leo's. You never mean anybody's like fuck a Leo. Well, it's like they're a showy, but he wasn't really. They care what people think. He's a shower. Not a grower. He was a shower. Was he? Yeah.

He did fine. I have never... You knew what to expect. I have never had an extreme grower. I've never had somebody take their pants off and I went, oh my God, what's going to happen? I mean, we all know what I have. It's part of my brand now. Should have called my stand-up tour, the all-grown-up tour.

That was the alternate name. The grower tour. Just all grown up. You get it. Really? Yeah. Well, because I'm... I'm grown.

Grown and sexy. Well, you're going on tour in June. It's all sold out. right? Pretty much. I think there might be a few tickets left for my second show in Philly, but don't, don't come. Come to the Girls' Got Eat show. Listen, at this point, I'm fine. Don't worry about me. Buy tickets to Girls. I think about Rayna. It's about the duo. No, because we have shows coming up in the late summer and fall in Philly, Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville, and Boston, and then, of course, Montreal for JFL. And at this point, there may be a few tickets left

Toronto, but these shows are going to be insane. They're going to be bigger, better. We want you guys to know that every time we go back to a city, the show is different. It's bigger, it's bigger, it's bigger, it's better. It just is. Theater's bigger. The show's better. We spend more money. We spend more money. We hire more entertainment. Like, we never want to give somebody the same show.

So just to keep that in mind if you're like, well, I saw them at the tabernacle before. Doesn't matter. A whole new show. It's going to be insane. They're all going to be so incredible. I mean, Philadelphia, like, this is the year. We'll get Gritty. I can feel it. I can feel. Gritty's coming to the fucking Met. Are you kidding? me? Yeah, maybe he didn't want to come to the punchline. Maybe he didn't want to come to the

Fillmore. He's coming to the Met. I have some contacts. Like, I just, I'm embarrassed. We asked him to come to the punchline. Of course he wasn't going to come to the punchline. That's no shade to the punchline. But I'm like, I love the punchline. The Met is where he belongs. I am performing the punchline. But like, this is where he belongs. Yeah. And I was really, so, so you guys know, Toronto next week is the last show we're going to do for quite some time. And, you know, thank you to everybody who came out in the winter and the spring. We know you guys give us so much your money and your time and your laughter. So we love you and thank you to everybody who came.

But this is it for a while. So come at the end of the summer and in the fall. So many people yesterday tagged us in stories saying round three. That they're coming for the third year in a row. And we're just so touched by it. And it is like our absolute goal to make sure every show is completely different than the year before. We just spend more.

We get more creative. And it's fucking wild. Yeah. And it's honestly, it's just like people just say it's the best night of their life. I mean, especially I just always think of Atlanta. What I say Atlanta? Like I'm not from there.

Atlanta. even Bella was like, ew. No hard tea ever. Atlanta last year, I just feel like so many people made friends there. That was the most where we got messages of like, I made friends tonight. I came alone. So that show, I will tell you. I mean, all the shows, Boston, listen, we don't need to tell you.

You know it's going to be insane Halloween show. But like Philly and Atlanta were going all out. We might not make any money. We're going to spend it all. And then on that note, you guys, just sometimes to keep in mind, we've got some messages about this about tickets, fluctuating in price. When you go to Ticketmaster, you do click on a thing that says tickets may fluctuate in price. So not all of them, but some of them do fluctuate depending on demand.

It's something that most artists do. We're doing it. We may not in the future. I don't know. So just something to keep in mind, if you see tickets that aren't what you expected, you can always go back and check. Again, that's just, it's a Ticketmaster thing. We're on the fence about it. We'll see. But that's just something to keep in mind that they do, they can fluctuate based on demand. so you guys can always go back and look and like click around and see what they cost, just something to keep in mind. And while we're here, we do put a cap on it. So you're never going to see tickets for girls that cost like hundreds, thousands of dollars.

And if you do, those are resale tickets. Yes. So everything is on sale. We might have a couple tickets left for Toronto. If you're coming to Toronto, email stories that Girls Got Eat Podcast, let us know if you're bringing single guys, if you're coming with your man, if you want to roast your friends, you want to roast your man, send all that to us, get your sex ready. And then JFL tickets for Montreal are on sale.

You can get festival passes, you can get tickets to just our show. All of it is on sale, huh? I can't wait. Montreal 2019 was one of the best times of my life. One of the best weeks of literally my whole life. Fuck that comedian, he was so hot. Yeah, we had to grab it as inhaler, so you fucked him real good. He really did is the first time.

Somebody had to get up and take medicine in the middle of having sex with that. That wasn't Viagra. Yeah. And everything is available. GirlsGuddypockus.com. Grab the merch also. We do not sell it at the shows. I don't think we've ever said this on the podcast.

Maybe we tried. We tried once. The company that we fired this year, fucked it up. So we sell it online, get it online. But most importantly, we're launching a new company next week.

Next week, one week. Listen, the rampage I've been on today. We're launching this company on the 6th, and that's all there is to it. Everybody gets their shit together. There's no more.

We'll do the best we can. There's no more. It'll probably work out. It doesn't matter. It's launching on the 6th. I don't care. We can't. There's nothing.

else we can do. We've said it. We're not, there's no way. That's it. Six, six. So, sex, sex. So we are launching the company in two parts. The first part of the company, six, six, get ready.

We're so excited, so proud. We have done all this work ourselves. We self-funded it. We are so fucking am. We're so excited. Yeah. So it's going to be part one and part two. I'd say the company is a grower.

You get a little and then you get the rest. Okay. Really quick. We talked about our upcoming shows. I just want to say really quick about the shows we just had. I just want to, again, thank. the Pistons dancers in Detroit and we had these incredible drag queens

in Pittsburgh and then the Colts cheerleaders in Indianapolis I just loved all them so much the Colts cheerleaders gave us this nice gift they were so sweet and right now I'm just going to tell you this and you're not even to believe it last night I was like looking at like shows in Detroit

to go back for like a weekend trip Ashley had like a complete 180 about Detroit she's like I'm down by the wire I was like what's the nicest hotel I could say in What is? Also, the flight, what was it, like, $45 minutes? Oh, no, I just meant it was so quick. Oh, yeah, it was like 45 minutes.

First of all, when we went to Detroit, we weren't downtown before. We did, listen, I'm going to say, we did not have a good experience. Like, we did it, like, the theater we performed in back in 2019. We didn't, like, the area we were in. I didn't really know about the downtown area. But also Detroit is, like, totally glowed up. In the last few years, they, like, the city filed for bankruptcy, right? And then they, like, it just has changed so drastically.

Like, I said this is the show. I think it's the only city that's glowed up post-pansansans. pandemic. I was shook by it. I want to go back. It was such an easy flight from New York. Like, the city of Detroit is not paying me to say this. I love it. So in case you guys thought at the tourism board. The tourism board. I was paying. I am just, I'm hyping it so hard. Like, we stayed right downtown. And it was like, I said this to you. I was like, this is probably truly, I'm not just blowing smoke. One of my very favorite shows in terms of the energy of the night. Listen, Joe Rogan was right down the street. Tom Sawyer was there that night. Like, we were right by

the baseball stadium. There wasn't a game. But like, where the film war was and like the energy of just people on the streets. It was right next to Mom Spaghetti and the venue. But I just never felt like that. Like a lot of times the theaters aren't like so right there in the middle of everything. And I felt like we were in the middle of everything. And it was kind of this funny thing of like, oh, are you going to Joe Rogan?

You're going to girls got to eat. Like we were literally right next door to each other. And I walked down like the main street all the way to the river. There was just all this cool stuff going on in the great shops. There was like a lelobo. I was like, what the fuck? I like dropped stacks at Lou Lemon. I can't hype it enough.

I mean, I was, wrong. I didn't see what there was to see. And like, I've loved to see a city glow up like that. It was really nice. Triggered by the East Village glowing down. Yeah. I mean, New York is garbage. I'm moving to Detroit. It's my favorite city we've gone back to and I've felt like this is a totally different experience. Yeah. And this run was really special to me because I'm Indian, Indiana is my college town and Pittsburgh obviously is my hometown. And it's probably the only run we've ever done where I felt all three shows. Oh my gosh. Phenomenal. It's not like we ever do three shows and I feel like, eh, but I usually love one so much more. And this is, I loved all three

of them. It was so special to me to have my family in Pittsburgh, Indianapolis. I just like love like the Hoosier Pride and Detroit. I will say, it's the most couples and same-sex couples I've ever seen come to a show. I mean, what is going on in Detroit with those gay men? Are you kidding me? These two, no, two couples and the one guy, the one single guy up front, when I went on to audience and talk to that one couple. Like I felt nervous. I was like, these are, and then when I walked away, they were like, can we hug you? I was like, yes.

And then the other couple that tagged me in their Instagram story, I'm like, what's going on? Like, I've never seen so many beautiful gay men, A at our show, A, in one place. I know. I mean, outside of the gay club. Who knew? I know. We had tons of them in Detroit.

Something happened in Detroit. I'm not going to give it away in case it happens again if we can ever recreate it, was the hardest I've laughed on stage. My abs hurt after the show. Like, I've never laughed so hard. People ask us all the time. Like, do you plan this stuff ahead of time? We don't.

Like, Ashley and I have like 15 different things that we like kind of do at shows. And it's just like we just lean into whatever thing we feel like is right to the for the room. Like, we never know. Like, so if we want to have like a dance party on stage, we just lean into it. It's not every show. So like, you guys just never know what's going to happen. It just, it was really fun. I loved looking out and just having like both of my parents at the show.

I don't think I've ever had both parents at the show before at the same time. I don't think you haven't. I just have to say I said this at the show. But Raina's mom. strutted into the green room with her current husband behind her and her ex-husband behind that. And I was dead. I was like, this woman, what an icon rolling up with her ex-husband and her current husband? My stepdad drove my dad down there.

Well, I stopped over at my mom's for a minute with my dad because they live next door to each other. If you guys don't remember or you don't know, my parents live like five houses down from each other to my mom. My mom hates it so much. So my dad came over and then my mom from through my dad's like, I'm not going to go and I'm not going to do your mom's house. I'm just going to ask her for a ride and then I'm going to leave. And he was like, can have a ride downtown?

He wanted to be like, look at her. So she drove my dad down. My whole family came like lifelong friends. I don't think my whole family's been in a room together like that since my brother's wedding exactly five years ago. My family gets along but there's not a lot of reasons to be together. And so it was really just like special. I was so glad to go home and do that and the theater was amazing.

And just thank you guys. It was an incredible week. I'm really tired. and it was really special. So can we talk about John and Sherry? Yeah. Okay. So this is your dad's brother and his wife.

And there's 11 years between them. They are my absolute favorite. They remind me of my parents. I love them so much. So I can't remember if we talked about this in the podcast or not. I remember you saying that she saw him once he was grown up. And she was like, is that a little John Greenberg? We talked about it on the age difference.

Okay. But she dated your dad. So this isn't that she. Sherry dated your dad when it was age. Because what, your dad and his brother were 10 years apart. My dad and his brother are 10 years apart. My dad and my aunt Sherry went to high school together. So they dated when they were at the same age.

And then when her now husband was a little boy. He was a little boy. Yeah, he was a little boy. And then my mom had a 35th birthday party for my dad and invited my aunt Sherry and a bunch of people from like around the town. Your dad's friends with. She invited your dad's ex. I mean, I guess this family.

I didn't know they really dated. But like that's what she said this week. It sounds like it was high school cash. Yes, high school casual. I don't think they've slept together. I don't know. Did. Wait, you have to find out what they fought.

Text my dad. Do you fuck Jerry? Did you have a fuck share? Wait, ask him. I'll text him. I love your dad so much. So he had a 35th birthday of my mom through it. And then my uncle John was there.

And she said she looked across the room and was like, is that little John Greenberg? Right. Because at that point, what, he was like 25? He was 23. And she had a daughter. She had a kid. She was divorced.

And they got, married a 25 and he didn't adopt my cousin Casey legally, but that's, that's her dad. Yeah. I mean, I just love them so much. And the story, I could not believe it. I did not know she dated your dad and then moved on to the younger sibling. That's so me. They get all, every Sunday night when I'm in town, we'd get a bunch of Chinese food.

We get all fucked up. And they start, like, heckling her about how she, like, fucks the whole basketball team, baseball. Is she me? She's like a sweet old lady. I kept up with their, like, heckling her about being a cleat chaser. She's been married for 40 years. They like tag team make fun of her for being a slut.

I'm obsessed with that. It's so funny. Okay. So speaking of women taking control. We want to tell you guys about something that we did recently. So we went to this event with Zales that was focused on female-led proposals and just talked about some statistics. Are women doing it? Do women want this? Do men want this? We wore our blinged out Zales jewelry, which I really love. I gave Bella one of the necklaces. So Bella and I believe Zales necklaces now. Well, Zales is like always hold a special place in my heart because I, I mean, I'll share the story since we're talking about Zales. But we had a Zales in the Dover Mall where I grew up. And I mean, of course, you're younger. You're like, that's the pinnacle of jewelry, right? Is, you know, like, all you want is like something from Zales. So the guy started dating right at the end of high school. We went to senior prom together. That's who I'd lost my virginity to all this stuff. It was like coming up on my birthday in July. And we had like got in a fight. You know, I used to just be just so dramatic. Not that I'm not anymore.

It used to be, yeah, but just way more like, we were just, we were fighting. And I was like, is he going to come to my birthday? Is he not? He was a really good, like, boyfriend, but we were in this huge fight and I had, like, thrown his stuff out of the window. It's a mess. So I didn't know. I was like, what is he going to come to my birthday?

And we were in this fight and we were coming up on my birthday. Obviously, we had a pool party planned and dinner at TGI Fridays. And I remember, like, getting a text or someone told me they saw him in sales. In the mall. Like, they were like, he's at sales. I was like, oh my God. is he going to get me something from sales? I didn't know that you were like dating people that rich backbed.

This is the same guy and took me to Red Lobster. So that's crazy. We ended up making up. He showed it to my birthday. He came in, TGI Fridays. I was wearing a bra top and a sarong in Fridays in Dover, Delaware for my pool party at the Smarter Pool. Like I was like a tropical exotic party.

And I remember he brought me over, like we made up and everything. And then he brought me over to at the Smarter Pool, the basketball area and he like, I swear, I, it's foggy, but I swear he, like, kneeled down. Like, I didn't think he was going to propose. He got on one knee. I knew he wasn't proposing, but he, like, was really extra with it. He was so extra with it. And he presented me with this little Zales box and it had this heart diamond necklace.

I think I still have the charm. And I, I mean, I wore it. I never took it off until we broke up. Like, it was my favorite piece of jewelry. Like, that was my first, like, diamond jewelry from a boyfriend. And it was just like so special. It was the pinnacle. It was like the elite thing

that your boyfriend could do for you back then. And Ashley and I have gotten recently, I've gotten some pieces from there that we really liked. And Zales right now, they have a she proposed campaign. The objective is to celebrate strong, independent women everywhere.

And sales is saying, I do it to female-led proposals. So we were able to this event to just learn about some different talking points in terms of do women want this. Do they want to do it? Do they want to be proposed to? And we learned like some pretty interesting statistics actually.

Yeah. I mean, also it's like, this is women proposing to women. Obviously, you know, same-sex couples have been, this is nothing new. But I think even like women proposing to whoever, you know, I just don't think it's as male-dominated, I guess, as it used to be. Well, we talked about this last week. And I just, I feel like we all deserve to be in the driver's seat of our lives. And I don't think that our partner always deserves to be the one they get to decide when we're in a relationship, when we move in together, when we get married. I think it's nice to kind of take the driver's seat.

So why not do it? Yeah. And we were, when we were at the event, we were asking about, like, trends and they were saying that typically, I mean, not always, but a lot of times when a woman proposes, then the partner will like propose back. You know what I mean? Like it's like a, yeah, if I'm doing it, you got to do it back. You got to get down on your, you're both on your knees. Yeah. So I thought this was really interesting. Pinterest boards of women proposing to men are up 300 and 36%. So people are like Pinteresting this and putting it out into the universe and I just, I love that.

I love the creativity behind it. Um, 41% of men's like, I mean, for me, you know, as a straight woman, why would I trust a man to set this up and do it right? Seriously. You should cowboy this. It's the same energy as my 18th birthday. My mom was playing a surprise party. I saw the invitation one late one night in the computer desk and I was like, I'll take control of this. Start inviting people on my own.

Had to take control of the surprise party. I mean, I'm going to plan this better than anybody can. That's why all of our girlfriends have to plan our proposals when I got engaged. My best friend planned it. I also, 41% of men feel that women should give him a ring for the proposal. I think it's so silly that like men don't

wear rings for a proposal. So I think it's like really nice and necessary for men to also wear it. Exactly. Also just wanted to cite our sources for our stats. Chili Sauce Marriage Proposal Survey 2020 and Pinterest 2018. So these are all, we didn't just like make these stats up and pull them out of our ass. But you guys, you know, we always want to give you like a hot take. We always want to do and say things to encourage you to, what is it, walk to the beat of your own drum, follow your own path. You know, if you guys feel like proposing, you should do it. Female Ed Proposals. Check out sales for the rings. Yeah, and all their other great jewelry.

We've been rocking it. We love it. Okay. So I have a question for you, and I don't know this about you. What? I was thinking about this recently. Last week came up, I said I was on like a bunch of group chats or I was on two like big group chats.

My phone just been blowing up because like the Bacheloret and then the Lovers and Friends festival group. And I realize that my toxic trait is taking forever to program people's names when they're like new people on a group chat. Okay. Like I programmed a couple people after Hannah's Bachelor. I programmed the rest of them after the wedding. Oh, wow.

I had just not known who was saying what for two months. So do you... This is crazy. And then the lovers and friends, nobody. So just Ashley. And I haven't programmed anyone else. That is why. Why?

I don't know. I just, sometimes I don't feel like it. And then I'm like, sometimes you don't know someone's last name or like I don't, it's just a procrastination. It's a toxic trait. Like, do you program people immediately? Uh, for Hannah's I did. Because yeah, I did want to know.

Who was saying. saying what? Because like my, I might respond to some people and not other people. Yeah. Or like, I feel like Sierra and I have become good friends and I'm obsessed with her and I wanted her phone number. So yeah, because of that I do. Or maybe like I want to ask one person a question. Like I wanted like just pages advice on like an outfit. I'm not going to group the whole. I'm not going to text the whole group about it. Yeah. So yes, that's, I thought you were going to ask me when those toxic trait was. No, I wasn't going to ask you that. I just, I was going to ask you when you program immediately. Also this morning you were texting. We're going to Greece for your birthday. And I didn't have a couple of those.

people's names. So I programmed immediately. You know what it is? Because okay, I will say it's not a toxic trait, but it is like a tick in me. And I have to know what everybody is doing at all times, always, even when it doesn't affect me in any way at all. So I think I just need to know

who's saying what, because like, I want to know what everybody's schedules all the time. I want to know what everybody's wearing all the time, what they're doing, what they're thinking. And even if it does know, it doesn't matter to me. Yeah. Okay. That's probably why I program them immediately. I don't know what it is. I think it's like, it's fine. like I have the storage.

You know, this is like in 1995 where you have like four numbers in your phone. Like I don't know what it is. Like there's something that makes me not want to do it. And I'm sure people relate to me on this. Like I, it's like you're a quick programmer or you're a late programmer or you're never program anybody. And you just live in that chaos with a bunch of numbers popping up, not knowing who's saying what.

Well, if it's people that I'm never going to talk to again, I don't care. Okay, that's kind of the thing too. Like the Bachelorette, of course. It was like, and we're going to see all these girls again at the wedding. And like, of course, I want to have like, page. number and people like that. But, you know, there's a couple girls that went to the festival that I will probably never see again. You know what I mean? Like they were like friends of friends, like, that they were in the group chat. I feel like people are going to be very much like either

Raina's friend or Ashley's friend on this one. I think some people are going to be like never. I would never, years have gone by. Like I think that some people couldn't believe the way I live where you have 50 texts and they're all just numbers. You don't know who's saying what? Okay, but does it matter to you for something like that? Like if you're never going to talk to them again, what's the difference? But yeah, You can't live like that. That would make me feel crazy. Not me. Okay. So we're coming back in here to record something. We had recorded this full episode Tuesday morning, Tuesday midday. And then the shooting happened in Uvaldi, Texas, where 19 kids and two teachers were killed. So we wanted to come back in here and address it. We

can't not. It is something that is not new and is so sadly not surprising, but something that really just shook us and so many of you to your core. I feel as though we would want to do like a deeper dive on something like this later. I mean, I would love to have someone come in, maybe closer to the election and talk more about some of these issues. We at least wanted to say something. First of, it goes about saying like our hearts are just like shattered. This is like one reason why it's hard to talk about really so close to it. So again, maybe we can just wait a little bit. But things like this and gun control and shootings is something like I felt so passionately about. I mean, everybody does. It feels like one of the things that like makes me feel the most sadness,

most rage of anything in this country, truly. It's like what sets us apart and it's so sickening. And our hearts go out to anyone who experienced loss with this shooting or any shooting. it's just there's no words for this loss. All these children and teachers, all of their families, all of the people who just lost their lives in Buffalo due to a hate crime and all of their families. Like the teachers that have to live like this, the kids, the parents, it affects all of us.

So we can continue to post resources. You guys have seen so many resources at this point. I always donate to and keep tabs with every town. They do a lot of great work. mom's demand is another organization. Of course, you can always donate, go fund me to the victim's families and things like thought. All these resources are pretty readily available on the internet.

Everybody's posting them. And call your centers, call your representatives, fucking put pressure on these people. We know so many of you are with us. Like, we know so many of you are going to vote the right way, but it's like tell your friends. Like the only thing we can do is like get these fucking lawmakers out of office that have the NRA's dick in their mouth

and their money in their pockets. And that's it. I mean, that's truly like the number one thing. we can do like these are the people making the rules when it comes to gun control and just common sense gun control and I could literally sit here and talk for an hour on all the things that I feel about guns and we just don't have the time and that's not what this podcast is about but like the voting is so important calling these people they work for us and just not turning a blind eye and not becoming desensitized to this stuff I think when these things happen you can feel so angry and so

much rage and so helpless. And I struggle with that because I'm so mad and I don't know where to put all those feelings. And whether or not you know somebody who's been affected by this or you've been affected by this, we're all affected by it. And when the shooting happened to Tree of Life Synagogue years ago, where I had my bit mitzvah, my parents got married. I remember feeling so fucking angry and you feel like I don't know where to put my money and my resources and my voice. I don't know who can help. And of course, my heart is with anybody who's a victim of this or like actually said, it's just afraid to send your child to school in the morning. But the only thing that you can do is vote these people out. They work for you. These are your

lawmakers. They have been voted in. Unfortunately, you can lobby them. You can find their contact information. Message them. They are your employees essentially and they are your voice. And then going forward, you have to vote these people out. We can't be single issue voters. We have to be educated. We have to know what these people represent. So do your research and please go to the Yes. I mean, we know there's more to it, but that this is where to start. The gun control is where to start. This country is obsessed with guns. It's fucking sickening. The power that the NRA has makes me sick. I lose sleep at night. It's insane what you're allowed to do in this country. It's absolutely fucking insane at the same time what's going on with abortion. Like, I can't fully wrap my fucking head around it. I feel crazy. I feel like how is this real life? Like, how? It's insane. And I just, I can't stop thinking about it. Like, What are we doing? What are we doing? Right.

I feel that we've chosen to regulate the wrong things here. This is an understatement. It's not a hot take. You've seen it on social media. I know. We've posted over and over this week that the waiting period to get an abortion and the shame around it that doctors give you and how much they tell you to think about it.

Watch this video and that you're killing a life. Well, why aren't we worried about killing all lives? I mean, I was just thinking the other day how long it took me to get approved for TSA pre-check. It took two and a half. months. I had to go for an interview. I had to get fingerprinted. And like an 18 year old can walk in and buy an AR-15. Like it makes me feel insane. And like, again, now we've spiraled. But like, you've seen all this information. Like there's no more hat takes. You know what I mean?

We've seen every single thing there is. It just, it has to boil down to like, let's fix what's going on in Congress. The Democrats are not perfect either. Do not get it twisted. We know that. But there is one party that is so funded by the NRA and there is one party that is at least trying to to make change and that is clear. And we know so many of you guys feel the same way. We're just preaching the choir. But again, like we always say, we want to use our platform.

But again, this is the comedy show about sex and dating. So it's like, but once we get closer to election times, you guys know, we won't forget. We will continue to bring this stuff up. I mean,

it feels like sometimes it's too much to address. It's like, where do we even fucking start? Here we were focused on abortion and then these shootings all happen. But again, there's a shooting every day. There's been more mass shootings in 2020 than days in the year.

It's horrific. fine and we won't we'll keep speaking on it and encouraging you guys to do the same and okay so we are going to jump in with our guest today and talk about a couple more partners but what we want to say is that we have a guest on today she's wonderful she is a psychologist she is not a gynecologist she doesn't claim to be and she's an author but we talked to her today a lot about hormones and your period and PMS and how you feel like a lot of brain activity things like that we don't want to talk to her about stuff that a doctor should talk to you about and and we didn't so that that's what you're going to get today in this episode. We did ask on social media what you guys

wanted to know about your periods and all kinds of things, whether it's PCOS or endometriosis or various things that like we'd want a doctor to speak on. So we see those things the talk because you guys are interested. We're keeping it in mind. You know, we're a podcast geared towards women and we always want to talk about your body. So don't think that like there's information that you wanted that we ignored. It's just kind of we're staying in a certain lane today because of the guess we have. Yeah. And she was wonderful. And you know, with questions that came in, you'll see in the interview, she said, I'm more of the neck up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Talking about, you know, why am I stressed out? Why does this affect my mood, my lukito, things like that. So, titty's down, doctor. Yeah, an ecologist doctor. Pussy down, we're going to get a PhD. She doesn't have an MD. So, different. She's a head person.

Yes, she has a doctor. She's a PhD, not, yes, got it. Anyway. So you guys get it. We just, we want to frame this for you so that you understand who you're getting information from and who you shouldn't get information from. But she's been studying this stuff for, fucking ever. It's just kind of like we could talk for eight hours on periods in women's bodies.

And we just kind of, this is what we focused on. Today is what she wrote a book about. Yeah, your brain on birth control. Your brain on birth control. But listen, we talk about our pussies too. And I found out I was totally wrong about all my, but I don't cycle. Anyway, we'll get into it. Okay, period time. Okay, guys, we are super excited to welcome our guest today. She is a professor of psychology at TCU and a leading researcher in the dynamic and rapidly expanding field of evolutionary psychology. She has published over 40 scientific articles on women, their health, and their mating and sexual psychology. She is a regular commentator in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Economist. She is the author of This Is Your Brain on Birth Control. You have seen her and loved her on Netflix.

The Principles of Pleasure. Please welcome to our show, Dr. Sarah Hill. Hi. Hi. Welcome to the show. Hi. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited about this today. You're so excited. I mean, we Raina recommended the documentary and then I watched it and then I was like talking about the phase of my cycle that I was in. And then we're like, we should just do a whole episode on this. So we're so glad to talk about it today. Yay. I was reading your bio on your website and it was just like, in my free time, I love to read, write, drink wine, watch football, cook, drink wine, and spend time with my family. She's us. She's literally us. What's your favorite kind of wine? Are you like

Red, white, seasonal. So my two favorite varietals are I love chardonnay, like California, like lowy, buttery chardonnays and impinos. So I'm a California wine girl. But I also do like, I went through a burgundy phase because they also do a lot with chardonnay and impino grapes. How about y'all? My favorite varietal is Sauvignon Blanc from the Marlbor region of New Zealand.

So it is like Kim Crawford, but like anything from that region. If there's a New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc on the menu, I like it. And I like white in the summer and red in the winter. So in the winter, I'm pretty open. I like a lighter pinot, but I'll also do like a Zimpendel or I'm usually not a Merlot drinker. Oh, okay. And then for me, I do white most of the year in the coldest months. I'll do peanut noir, but I like drink this Muscatay that I really like by the case,

not because it's confused with moscato, which is sweet. Bouscaday, we're similar to like a Riesling or a Gortstrominer. It's not sweet at all. And then what is like the red, cold wine that I like? It's fizzy and red and cold. I forget. Oh, wait. Is it, is it Bochelet?

I like a Bojolet. I went through a big Bochelet phase. Lambrisco. That's what it is. I love him. I will pound Lambrusco in this summer. It's a lower alcohol content. Or anyway.

So about that you're here and I'm talking about wine with us. Yeah, we're like, this is such a bait switch. You're actually a Somali. Okay. So you are really an expert. you literally wrote the book on birth control and period. So talk to us a little bit about like your background, how you got into this. Why why you've like researched this so heavily?

Sure. So, you know, I was always really interested in motivation. So just like understanding why we do the things that we do, including things like falling in love and and having sex. And especially like when we talk about things that women do. Because in the field of psychology, there's like a whole lot of research that's been done, especially using this evolutionary lens that I tend to use. in my research, looking at things that are related to men's behavior.

So, like, who are men attracted to? Why do men short-term mate? You know, like have one night stands? Why do men do this? And there's a lot less that was, like, understood about the way that women's brains work. And if we want to understand women and we want to understand women's behaviors and, like, what motivates us, whether it's, you know, motivates us to have sex or motivates us to exercise or motivates us just to even be nice to other people, we have to talk about our hormones.

And so that really, you know, I started out just with a broad interest and, you know, why women do anything, particularly in the domain of mating. So our relationships and sexual psychology. And then it sort of ended up, you know, evolving, no pun intended, or pun intended, into getting really deeply into the role of our hormones and guiding all of these processes. Yeah, I mean, women spend half of their lives, either getting their period, or on their period. It's crazy. Right. Well, I know. Like half of your month. Like the time into my period is more miserable than my period. Right. Yeah. No, PMS is just the worst, right? The like week before you get your period.

I'm actually writing right now. I just got done. This is like literally the thing I was doing before I came and sat down in this chair was I was just writing about ways to minimize. I'm working in my next book. And one of the chapters is about how to minimize the horrible turbulence that you get during that week before your period. And so I am going to recommend to you magnesium and zinc because I'm telling you it is like an absolute game changer. And there's a lot of research showing that it decreases these symptoms. Okay.

There's these women in Atlanta that develop this all natural supplement that I've been taking. It's called Samain. I don't know if you've ever heard of this. Have you seen it? Yeah, I think I've heard of it. And it has been changing the game for me. I don't have terrible periods. And I never really, well, I've been.

birth control forever. But there is stuff out there that's, so I love that you, that you recommended that. But I'd love to talk about the 28 day, whatever cycle of women and what we're going through and like what's happening. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So the first day of your period is actually the first day of your cycle. So we'll just like go ahead and start there. Okay. So your period is initiated by a hormone crash that happens at the end of your cycle that will get to when we get to the end of the cycle. But just know that like when you get your period, it occurs because you have this big hormone crash and that destabilizes your endometrial lining and causes you to bleed. Okay. So when that happens, your hormone levels and women's two primary sex hormones are estrogen and progesterone.

And we'll get a little bit more into those as we sort of make our way through. But both of those hormone levels are low, right? You just have this big hormone crash, you're bleeding. And when the levels of both of those sex hormones are low, that sends a signal to the brain like, oh, shit, you know, we didn't get pregnant. We need to like start maturing another egg so that way we can give it another go on this cycle. And so the brain starts stimulating our ovaries via the pituitary gland and then our ovaries start maturing a bunch of egg follicles, right? And so one of those will get chosen. And as it's maturing, it releases a lot of estrogen, right? And when estrogen is being released in high quantities, which we experience in this first half of our cycle,

which is called the follicular phase, it tends to be associated with a lot of the things that we like to feel. So during this phase of the cycle, particularly in the like 10, five to 10 days leading up to ovulation and then right near ovulation itself, which happens around day 14, our body is releasing a lot of estrogen because we're maturing those egg follicles, and it gives us more energy. It makes us like more sexually desirous and adventurous. So we find that women are like more interested in things like variety in this phase of the cycle. Women look and smell more beautiful to men. Women notice men and like the way that men smell better. They are better able to tell

the difference between high and low quality men, both in terms of facial features associated with testosterone and also in terms of genetic compatibility because of scent. So estrogen causes this like whole suite of psychological changes that happen at the level of the brain that ink like are sort of gearing us up for the possibility of making a baby. Right. So it makes us want to have sex because we're about to release an egg and it wants to have some sperm there because our body is like always trying to get pregnant. So our brain right, which is of course is a body part, like might not want to get pregnant but you're like ovaries have just like a totally different set of goals in mind.

Right. So they're like, we're going to send this hormone that's going to make you want sex and make you really beautiful and like really interested in men. And so a lot of women really like the way that they feel in this first half of the cycle. Right. And then around day 14, the egg is released. Right. So we have high levels of estrogen during the space of the cycle leading up to the egg being released. And then the egg gets released, which is the ovulatory event. And after that happens, our body starts to release our other sex hormone. which is progesterone. And progesterone is kind of like the less attractive sister to estrogen, right? So it tends to make us hungry. It makes us sleepy. It actually kills libido. So it's sexually inhibitory. And it generally just kind of makes us feel like staying home and watching a movie

and not really, you know, doing anything too exciting. And our body is doing this because it thinks that this egg that it just released might possibly have turned into an embryo and is going to implant itself. So your body is kind of getting into hunker down mode to get you ready for the possibility that you might be pregnant. And so during this phase, you know, we tend to be a little bit sleepier. We don't have as much energy. We don't have as much sexual desire.

We're not as interested in men. And, you know, this phase of the cycle is also when you get PMS, right? And PMS is, it's complicated. And so I'm going to get us into the weeds with that. but progesterone is also one of the key players in PMS symptoms. So those mood symptoms that we experience in the week or so leading up to our period. So progesterone stays pretty high and that's the dominant hormone during the second half of our cycle. And then what happens if an embryo does not implant itself,

progesterone will stop getting released because, well, it's a long story. I don't want to get the weeds on that either. But it stops getting released. And so the and then you get this big crap. in both our levels of progesterone and estrogen. And this is the thing that initiates our period. And so then it starts all over again. So we have this first half of the cycle, estrogen.

Yay, sex, energy, fun. Right. And then we have the second half of the cycle, which is like, oh, I'm tired and no, I don't want to. And, you know, and I want a snack. So I have a question because, okay, let's just say there's four weeks. Let's say we started our cycle on the first through the 28th.

Like, it's February. And you have like a week you're bleeding. Then the next week, it is the best week of your life. The week after your period is like amazing. I think most of us can feel that. But I feel like shit on my actual period. But that is the start of like the good phase. It's just the very beginning of it.

Because I will say just me personally, that's the worst I ever feels. Like the first day of my period, like bloated, gross. But that's still part of the follicular phase. I just want to get it right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So day one is we would call that like, well, depends. You can actually divide your cycle into two.

into halves or you can divide it into four parts. So if we're dividing it into two, it's part of the follicular phase, and we would call that the early follicular phase. Okay, if we're dividing it into four parts, which is the menstrual phase, the follicular phase, ovulatory phase, ludial phase, then we would call that the menstrual phase.

Okay, that feels like a little, like I can wrap my head around that a little bit more because I'm like, the beginning of my period is not a fun phase for me. No, no. And in the first day in particular, I mean, imagine you're having this big hormonal crash, right? And hormones affect what our brain is doing all over the place.

And in our body, I mean, it's like the way that we regulate our water in our cells, which is why you feel bloated and all of that. All that's affected by your hormones. And to go through this big hormonal crash, I mean, your body has to do a lot of fancy footwork to make adjustments for how it's doing things based on the change in hormonal status. So, I mean, it's no wonder that you feel terrible in the first eight-year period. That's like not a magical time for anyone. But then if I'm on birth control, am I not having these?

Okay, so remind me, are you the one on the IUD? No, I am on the pill. I'm on Ocela. And of course, I know I'm not ovulating. I know how, but I am I not going through any of these cycles, having these symptoms at all because if you're on first control. But then why do I feel like, why do I feel bad and then feel good? Yeah, yeah.

I don't get it. Okay, well, so, all right. So there's a couple. of different things happening here, right? So the first thing is, like, during your period, you aren't on anything, right? You're taking that sugar pill. Yeah. Right. And so you're having a hormonal crash. And so, yeah, you feel terrible because you've been having, and especially if you're on a pill that has a consistent dose across the whole cycle, right? Like, if it's, if it's not, because there are these trifasic things where you take the light yellow pills and then the brighter yellow, you know, where they have a

different formula every week. But if you're on something where you're taking the same hormone, dose every day. Imagine that your brain is getting the same message every day for three weeks straight and all of a sudden it's gone. Your brain is going to like, wait a minute, what happened? Okay. And so like your experiences are going to be different than that of a naturally cycling woman. This being said, so you don't have a follicular phase, you don't have an ovulatory phase, you don't have a ludial phase. You know, you just have what I call hormonal deja vu. Right. So my book, I call it hormonal deja vu, where you just get this like same message every day. And then you have your period phase.

And so my guess is that you, you know, are probably feeling best in your like, what would be your follicular phase just simply because now you're readjusting and you're out of the way that you were feeling when you were on your period. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Which is totally wrong. I was out here like thinking I, because I feel like most people, at least most people I know

are on some form of birth control. So like the actual full-blown phases are only people that are not on home. Yeah, no. I mean, right? Yeah. Yeah. So cycling, like cyclically changing sex hormones is something that you only get among women who are not on hormonal birth control.

Because you're shutting down your HPG axis, which is your brain pituitary ovary axis, which is sort of what causes the whole kitten caboodle to happen every month in terms the hormonal changes and the psychological changes. You're shutting all that down when you're on hormonal birth control, especially the pill. Now with the IUD, a lot of women, so usually within, usually in the first year that you're on it, if you're on the hormonal one, your brain ovarian axis is shut down, just like it is for women on the pill, so you don't have any changes in sex hormones. But a lot of women, especially if they've been on it for a couple of years, we'll start to cycle again.

And so, yeah. So you, and what's crazy about it is nobody really knows, like, who's and when. Like, so some women will never start cycling when they're on the hormonal IUD. Their cycle shut down. Some women will start ovulating right away when they're on the hormonal IUD. But most women will start out not ovulating for at least a year. And then their bodies sort of figure out what's going on with the hormones. And they start ovulating anyway.

And so that generally happens within about, like, I said with most women, like by five years, most women are ovulating. Okay. On the hormonal birth control. Because I'm a non-hormonal. I do get my period. Yeah, yeah. So then you were ovulating all along.

Yeah. I've been on it for exactly one year. I mean, I can't stress enough how much, you know, everybody's body's different. It's been the right decision for me. I really enjoy it. I don't have to worry about getting pregnant, which is great. I do get my period. It was pretty aggressive in the first couple months.

But before we, like, move too far into broken before, I just want to back up to one thing that you said, and just ask, I know you said that PMS is like a little bit complicated, so won't like press you for information. But the week leading up to my period is so miserable. And once I get it, it's actually this incredible relief. I feel so much better mentally and physically. And so just in terms of like the camp, like, why do I feel like I want to murder everybody for a couple days? It doesn't happen every cycle. And it doesn't, it's not always, it's maybe three or four times a year. But like, I feel like I can't be in public because I am ira. I'm a rationally.

about stuff that I know I'm not like normally upset or mad about. It's not normal. And it's like before it. For me it's before. Because I feel like what you're saying, I don't think I, I think I'm fine until I get my period because I'm regulated. Like I think you're and you're right. It's like this, once it's done, you just feel a sense of relief. But like I wouldn't say that I have premenstrual symptoms because I'm being regulated by my birth control. But I just feel gross when I'm like bleeding and bloated and everything else. But like, like yeah, I'm curious too why it's like so. I'm quite tired. I'm exhausted.

And the extreme irritation with other people is not always, but it is a lot, again, three or four times a year. And I'm exhausted. I don't really get cramps. For me, it's just, it's just mental on how I feel. So essentially, progesterone causes changes in the brain that make it more excitable by negative stimuli. Okay.

So it increases neural firing to sounds. It makes us more easily disgusted. Like smells? Yeah, like smells gross you well. And things like where if you saw a pile of dirty dishes in the sink, it might not like throw you over the edge when you were like a follicular phase version of yourself. But when you're in the ludial phase, it's like you're easily disgusted. You're irritable.

Sites and sounds are actually increasing synaptic activity in your brain in ways that don't happen during the follicular phase of the cycle. So all of these things are really, they're increasing. brain's sensitivity. And it seems like this increased sensitivity is specifically targeted toward sites, sounds, smells, and things that are negative. So we actually are like we're more likely to notice and remember negative information. Right. So if somebody gives you a like a social slight, right? Like you weren't invited to a party or something. Like we're more likely to perceive that as being negative during the ludial phase. So we have this negativity bias in terms of what we

pay attention to the way that we interpret it, what we remember. But in terms of like sensory sensitivity gets increased in response to progesterone. And, you know, if we are in really good health and have like a perfect diet, our brain is better able to sort of adjust to these things. But our current diet is so deficient in vitamins. And this is why I'm saying like the two vitamins that you really and minerals, and if you're taking a supplement that contains these already, there's a lot of research that shows that both magnesium and zinc actually decrease neural firing to things like sights and sounds, right? And so it takes the edge off. Super fascinating. It's super fascinating because it's like I, well, I'm irritated about stuff. I know it's not

quote-unquote normal for me. I know that like I should not be interacting with people. It's pretty crazy. So it's good to know. Yeah, no, I have the same experience. And it's really interesting because, you know, the feeling tired and everything is our body that our energetic demands are actually higher during the ludial phase because our body temperature increases. And so what that means is, is that our body is actually perceiving that there's an energy shortfall because we require more calories at that time. And that's why we're hungry and sleepy as our body is like, oh, I'm in energy conservation mode. So I need a snack in a nap. And so for someone that is on the pill and then there's seven days of no hormone.

is your body producing estrogen then? Yeah, well, it's really interesting because, because my boobs get bigger and the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, because your body essentially is like, oh, well, I guess that we need to start maturing an egg. Okay. And so it's right, right. It'll start the process and then you start taking the pill.

And then it's like, oh, no, got it. I need to do that. And that's why you can just do pit the pills straight through and. Yeah, yeah. And to kind of get to your point that you were making, a lot of women find tremendous relief from like PMS, the kind of PMS that naturally cycling women experience from the birth control pill.

And, you know, and a lot of women like to take the one where you take the steady dose of hormones for three months in a row. You know the one where you don't get the period, except for like once every three months, specifically for that reason, because it allows them to sort of even out their moods. So that way they're not having to go through the little roller coaster that a lot of women experience when they're naturally cycling.

Yeah. I mean, it's like if you can avoid that, I mean, we want to talk about like the not necessarily positives and negatives, but kind of like tradeoffs. They're tradeoffs that you're making. And I know that you're not, I know you're not a gynaecologist. So I don't expect you to answer this if you don't want to. But we did get a couple of people asking us about comparing different types of IUDs and pills and things like that. And we're not going to ask you to recommend one of the other, but is there like certain things you should ask your doctor? Because even when I was getting the IUD, the discussion was like pretty interesting for

me, the hormonal versus not hormonal. And she asked me a few questions about my lifestyle and what was right for me and what are my periods like. But is there anything you would recommend like asking the doctor? Because I never knew what to ask and I ended up on a higher dosage of hormones previously like in my early 20s on the pill. And it made me feel crazy. Like I remember like sitting on my floor crying feeling like depressed all the time. That's so funny. I had a similar experience on hormonal birth control because I was on it for over a decade. And the very first one, and I tried was like a high dose of just progestin, so it had no estrogen. And I cried like all day.

And I remember thinking the way that this prevents pregnancy is by making nobody want to have sex with you. Oh my God. Yeah. Because you're such a basket case. Like I'm such a basket case. Nobody would touch me with a 10 foot pole. That is so funny.

Well played. Birth control. Oh, my God. Yeah, I follow my ex constantly on it. I mean, but it's like the nightmares you hear about going off. Oh, sorry, did you? Yeah, I was curious, like what you would say, because, I mean, I feel really lucky, Ashley and I,

the person who did my IUD was on our show. She does this for a living. She asked me some amazing questions about the ID and what kind of was going to get. But is there anything that you would say about like ask your doctor when deciding? Yeah, so here's what I would tell. And this is less about what you need to be asking your doctor, but just something to know and do a little bit of homework on. And that is know that with hormonal birth control,

you get differences in how women respond to them based on, one, the type of progestin in the birth control. So there's four different, they call them generations of progestins that are in use, right? There's first, second, third, and fourth, and they're all currently in use. They're numbered based on when they appeared on the market. But each type of progestin that's in a generation is more similar to each other than it is different. And so just like know that there's four different generations of progestins. And so for example, if you went on something at one time and you had a terrible reaction to it, like let's say that it was a second generation progestin, then I wouldn't ask your doctor to try something that's like a first or a third or a fourth.

And so just knowing that there's four different categories of progestins and sort of know what type is in the one that you're on or that you're going to try. And so that way if it doesn't work for you, you can figure out something different. Right. And I spend in my book, I actually talk about there's the sort of strengths and weaknesses associated with each of the generations of progestions. And so just sort of knowing what your goals are, like are you more concerned about your libido or what your skin looks like, right? And so sort of understanding what differentiates those four different generations of progestions and then knowing what is in whatever it is that you get prescribed. So be aware of that. And the other thing that seems to really influence the way that women respond to it is the modality.

Right. So it's like, is this a combination birth control pill? Is this a shot? Is this a vaginal ring or is this an IUD? And there tends to be variability in how women respond to those different things. And it's very idiosyncratic. It's not one of those ways where I would say like absolutely, you know, try the hormonal IUD. Like everybody responds well because it's never true. Our bodies are so different and complex. in the way that our bodies metabolize hormones and process is so different. But I will say that in terms of looking at side effect profiles, and particularly what I would call a serious side effect profile, meaning like you're an increased risk of things like anxiety, depression,

and even suicide risk. You tend to see the lowest risk with combination hormonal birth control products, so pills, those combination pills that have progestin, and then also a synthetic estrogen. That's what I'm just looking at. Yeah. And the synthetic estrogen actually, you know, you really don't need it to prevent pregnancy.

So most combination birth control pills, the reason that they have estrogen in them at all is because it makes women feel better. Right. And libido, right, for one? Yes. Yeah, no, for sure. And mood is in that one.

could just have you not get pregnant, but it would ruin your life. So let's just give you that little splat. Yeah. It's like, here's a little, here's a little something for you ladies. I mean, it just, it feels so frustrating because I've been on this birth control since I was, you know, I don't even know, 20, 18, like it's just been so long and I went off it for one year. And getting back on it was hell. Like the way that I, that I felt in my body was so bad, you know. And my doctor was like, well, you know, your body changes as you age. And you just, you know, this is just different to getting back on it because I do feel like it regulates.

And sometimes I'm like, maybe I do want to see what my body is like normally. But I'm worried about, I'll be honest, I'm worried about waking. And I feel like for whatever reason I do feel like mine helps regulate a little bit more. Maybe that's just like irrational and irrational fear having a heavier period, you know, these type of things. Like I feel like sometimes it's a lose loose. No, I don't think it's irrational. I mean, the IUD for me made my period so heavy for like three months.

I was like, how are not being hospitalized? Like, yeah. I can't sit on our pink couch together. It did regulate itself, but it is, it's a color of red that I've never seen come out of my body. Like, it is heavier. Right. Yeah, yeah, you're like, this is incompatible with life.

Yeah, it is. I mean, what do you see, you know, if you've been on it for so long, like going off of it? Right. Like the regulatory period. Like, I mean, again, you cannot, everybody's body's different. We can't stress that enough.

You know, we know that you can't speak to all women. There's no way. nobody can't. Right. But is it typically like a negative experience? No. Well, so, you know, look, I think that there, you know, and of course there's variability. There's no question about it and no two women are the same.

But the research seems to suggest in my experience in talking with other women who I'm gone off it, I went off of it. The first time I went off of it, I think I was on it for nine years straight. And then I went off it after being on it for like two years straight. I think that I got passed. most of the sort of crazies within three months. That's just too long. It makes me be like,

I can't take three months of feeling like shit. Like we have to, I'm not yelling at you. I'm just like, it makes me feel like sometimes like being a woman and like I don't want kids. So I'm like, I'm doing all this for nothing. Like it's just,

it's so frustrating because you hear three months. You're like, what that's when I went on the hormone free IUD. Because I completely went up birth control for years. And I was like, I'm not having consistent sex with anybody. I don't want to put this in my body. I mean, honestly, I just can't remember to take a pill.

That was the predominant reason. Some people, yeah, I really don't want to fuck with that. But I met my ex and I was having tons of sex. And I was like, it's time to chuck something up there. And I was too scared to put something with hormones, my body, because I'd been off of it for so many years. I can't go through what she's talking about. I can't do it.

So I will say this, though. And that is that that's like the long end of the spectrum. Some women feel all right within a cycle. Yeah. And, you know, some women is just, it's like a couple weeks or even in a couple days. So everybody's a little bit. different. And Dr. Jolene Brighton has a really good book. And Dr. Laura Brighton, they both have really great books about what you can experience, like when you're transitioning off of

hormonal birth control and ways to kind of get things in check relatively quickly. And so those might be worth, uh, worth checking out if you're considering doing that. But it really shouldn't be a big, terrible, scary, horrible ordeal. For some women, it is. And, you know, and you can certainly give it a try and then, you know, screw this. And then like, get, right back on it. You can do that safely. So in your book, you focus a lot on sexual side effects of birth control. So we would love to talk about that and just like your libido, your desire. I love that you were talking about smell. I talk about smell in the show all the time. I love to smell a person. And even just like how wet you get during sex or dry during sex, the differences

between the different birth controls in terms of sex. But let's talk about sex and how. Awesome. Yeah. So we can talk about, like we'll talk about sex in two stages because sex is kind of a multi-stage affair, right? And the first part of sex is attraction and choice, right? And so this is the part where it's like we are finding a partner and we're looking for somebody that we're going to have sex with. And I'm not talking about like you're going to scope in the bar, right? I'm just talking about like our psychology, the parts of our brain that are sort of optimized to helping us find a good partner are sensitive to our sex hormones. And in particular, they're sensitive to estradile or estrogen. And when estrogen levels are high, it increases our sensory acuity and it increases our ability

to notice the small differences between men in terms of their testosterone markers. So they find that women's scent, like we're more sensitive to the scent of testosterone metabolites. And so women are better able to discriminate among men this way. Women are more discriminating among men's faces based on testosterone cues. So like whether somebody has a pronounced brow ridge or a square jaw, deeply set eyes, things are associated with testosterone. Women, when estrogen is high across the cycle, are really attracted to these types of things and they play a role in our attraction.

We smell better and are sexier to men. So there's a bunch of research showing that women look more attractive, both the men and women at high fertility across the cycle. The way that our bodies even move is a little bit different and men find it more attractive. again, when estrogen is high. And of course, when we're on the pill, all of these things get shut down, right? And so you just get that little kind of consistent level of estrogen every month. And so in addition to sort of decreasing our desirability to men, and I'm not talking about in these like huge ways, right? It's not like all of a sudden you go from being a 10 to be in a

four, right? But it's like you might go from being a 10 to being a 9.75. And, you know, and that, and that could matter to you. But it also decreases our ability to pick a partner who has qualities that generally or historically have been linked to things like genetic compatibility. So the whole idea with scent is that women at high fertility, so this is naturally cycling women. They tend to exhibit a greater preference for the scent of men whose immune genes are different than their own. And this is something that would increase the health of their children. And so it's It was like this whole cornucopia of changes. Yeah, that, that, it's so it can direct even like who were attracted to.

And so they've done studies, for example, showing that women who choose their partners when they're on hormonal birth control, choose partners with less masculine faces. What? And what is chosen by women. Okay. I have to jump in too, because obviously we're talking, we're talking about hormones. So we're talking about women and men. Let's talk about like same sex couples.

Like, are two women that? that are at their peak of their cycle just like, like, yeah, like, like so horny for each other. Like, yeah, so,

so it's really, yeah, it's so gorgeous. They're like, both at their 10 phase. Yeah. I love that. I love,

and there's not enough research on same sex couples, but I have to tell you, like this is like the craziest. So since I published my book, I get emails from readers all the time, which I absolutely adore. But I've gotten more than a handful of emails from women who are like, I always thought I was completely

heterosexual and now I'm a little gay. Or I thought that I was totally gay and now I'm attracted to men that I've gone off like so when they switch. I know it is crazy and who knows. This is not science because of these are just emails from readers so who know. I mean there could be other things.

But we do know that sexual preferences are affected by hormones. And so it wouldn't be totally crazy that if you're somebody who's sort of psychology is wired such that you're kind of on the border of being a little gay or a little straight that it might nudge you in one direction or the other in some cases. Okay. What if I go on birth control and I get even more straight?

Oh, how could you be more straight? You're so straight. It's a straight person. I know. Okay, I have a question. I feel like my brain, you ever like hear a fact your brain like will not like let it penetrate? I'm trying to grab my head around this.

Okay. I am a non-hormonal IUD. And then you said there's certain times where you're like attracted to like somebody's square jaw line or their forehead. Like is there times when I'm going to pick a mate because I'm so horny for the way they look and I'm going to overlook. their personality traits. Yes.

Yeah, no, it's totally when estrogen's fine. It's like right before. The first half. The first half. Okay, so I'm going to ignore all of their traits. And then the second half,

you're going to be annoyed. Yeah, they're going to be like, so that month will be a wild mind because you'll pick somebody based on their forehead the first two weeks. And then the second two weeks, you'll realize how annoying they are.

I will fully pick a person based on their facial hair and tattoos, no other features. And then I will be so mad at myself the second half of that. That is hilarious. No, that's like exactly that's exactly what goes on.

Okay, great. Now I get it. Okay. Yeah. So that's like the kind of the first category of things that can happen when you're on the pill is it can kind of influence the qualities that you're paying attention to when you're choosing a partner. And so in the research seems to suggest that women who choose their partners on the pill are not so much focusing on like sexiness and are focusing on more things like provisioning ability and intelligence. And so there is some suggesting that that going on the pill sort of shapes what we're paying attention. to when we're choosing partners.

In terms of actual sexual function and sexual desire, most of the changes that you get when women are on hormonal birth control are actually caused by the release of what's known as sex hormone binding globulin. It's called SHBG for short, because globulin is like the worst word. Nobody should say that. Yeah. Right?

It's a terrible word. And yeah, so this SHBG gets released by the liver. anytime they have a ton of sex hormones in the system. And when you're taking a synthetic, that's what happens because it's being processed by the liver. The liver is like, holy shit, you know, there's too many hormones. So it starts releasing all this binding globulin. But what it actually ends up doing when you're on the pill is it mops up your testosterone. And they find that women who are on the pill have something like 65% lower testosterone levels

than women who aren't. And when you kill testosterone, this is, of course, de-questrone. this, of course, decreases libido. So it tends to make you less interested in sex. But it also reduces sexual function, meaning like you're talking about differences in, like, wetness or dryness. Yeah, I've noticed that on different birth controls,

I've been like, it's like, my pussy gets water. Yeah. And so that could be one that is sort of not having those effects. And especially fourth generation progestins, birth controls that have the fourth generation progestions seem to be good for sexual function. Some of the other ones are less good, especially like the first and second generation ones seem to have the most libido-related side effects.

So it mops up your testosterone and that can, yeah, it can make you drier during sex. It can make you less likely to come, which is also frustrating. And it also can mess up oxytocin signaling, which can also make you less likely to come and just diminish libido. Now, I will say that I just got done reading a couple of papers. I reread them. I posted about them on my Instagram. But it was about DHEA, which is shorthand for a really long name of a compound in the body. It's actually the precursor to testosterone.

And there's been research showing that when women who are on the birth control pill, supplement with DHEA, which you can buy it at CBS or you can order it. I order mine on Amazon. So I actually take it, I'm not because I'm on the birth control pill, but just because I'm getting older. sucks. And, but it helps. It increases testosterone levels in pill takers.

And so it's been found to be associated with increasing testosterone in pill takers and reducing some of the sexual side effects. And so that's like a hopeful, you know, something hopeful out there for women who are experiencing libido related side effects. I would say one more thing about this. And that's just that. In addition to DHEA, and that is, it seems like there's a lot of variability in response in this.

So if you are a woman, like if one of your listeners or one of your friends is on something that's like killing their sex drive, talk to their doctor about going on trying something else with something with a different type of progestin in it because women do seem to be very responsive to what they're on in the case of libido. And it might just be a matter of switching up the type of birth control that you're on. Yeah, because I think, I mean, what I just don't want to, this isn't like an in defense of birth control thing. I mean, I've been on it my whole adult life.

But it's also like, I don't want to. to sound too doomsday of being on the pill, ruins your sex life. I mean, I feel pretty well regulated and I guess it's just kind of fine what works better for you. And I don't know that I want to go through my natural cycle, you know, after all this time. But it's like, I don't know. It truly

is, I think it's such a personal preference because I think there's total negatives and positives to both. Yeah, no, absolutely. No, absolutely. I mean, you make a really good point. And this is like the big sort of takeaway with my book is that birth control isn't bad. It's different.

And you have to figure out what's going to work for you best. And everything comes with tradeoffs. Like being a naturally cycling woman, there are some benefits to that. Right. And we know what some of those are. We've been talking about them. There's also benefits to being on the birth control pill. And a lot of women, as you were noting, you know, about yourself,

they don't have noticeable side effects at all. Yeah. You know, and so like whether or not it causes these changes in brain, in the brain or whatever doesn't really matter. You know, it's like if you feel good. good. That's the only data point that you need, period. Because each one of us is different. All of us are going to be making different choices and weighing costs and benefits differently. And some of us don't even feel like we're making tradeoffs at all. It's just like we experience all the pluses and we

don't experience the side effects. The whole point with my writing the book is that I think that a lot of women don't know what to look out for. Right. And a lot of the message is about know what to look out for in terms of side effects that can happen, that women do experience, right? And if this is something that's happening to you, here's why it's happening, right? Because a lot of women have never given an explanation for why they're feeling the way that they're feeling.

Or they don't know that they can just like try a different generation of progestin or try a different product and that they might feel absolutely differently than they do when they're on the other one. Right. And so it's just really about educating women about like, how does this affect you? What are your options? And so that way you can make those tradeoffs because nothing that I present in the book

and certainly nothing that we've talked about now paints a doomsday scenario. If you're on the pill and you feel great, you can safely do that for a really long time. And there's no reason to go off of it if you like the way that you feel. In Texas, we always say, like if it ain't broke, you don't fix it. I like empowering people to talk to their doctor. It's not such a hot take. But I've been on the pill. I've been on low, orthotidic and low.

I've been on the ring and I've had an IUD and every one of those has done something different to my body. I had a very negative reaction to the ring. I took it out immediately. I just think that people should feel empowered to change what's going on if they feel shitty. I've never had any interactions with my libido. It's always been pretty consistent,

whether I was on birth control or off of it. But just talk to your doctor and don't feel like this is like a death sentence. Like you can always go on and off different stuff. The generations of progestins, is that information we can find out or you have to ask your doctor? Like is that easily? Oh, no. you can totally find it out. I mean, you know, I write about it in my book, but I also write about it.

If I think linked to my website, I've got, I wrote an article for Medium. You can find it. The name of the article, you can just Google it, is how to choose the least worst birth control. Okay. Yeah. That's what we're all looking for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's got a little table on it that describes the different, the different types of progestions and talks a little bit about each of them. And then in my book, I spend a lot of time talking about Like some of them are known for being good for sex and some of them are known for being like good for skin and sort of like what that looks like. And yeah. And I mean, across the board is being on the pill on a hormonal birth control is you're going to have a lighter flow, a shorter period or is that body dependent too? It's it.

I mean, it can be body dependent. Like so for example with the IUD, the hormonal IUD the first month, I've heard of some women having some weird funky bleeding. but for the most part on any hormonal product that you're on and the shot. I remember I bled like every two days when I was the first couple months on the shot. It was horrible. But for the most part, most women on most products for most of the time that they're on it, you're going to have an incredibly light flow because you're not actually building up an endometrial lining. So there's nothing to shed.

So you don't get all the clumpy, lumpy, junk, you know, whatever stuff that you get. That's what I don't want to deal with. I want to go back. Yeah. And so and that's another benefit. You know, like it makes it where you have a very light bleed period when you're on the pill. It can clear up your skin. It can do things like make your boobs bigger, like the fourth generation ones. They can also facilitate weight loss, the fourth generation ones, because they have some diuretic properties.

They can be mood stabilizing and really life-saving for women who have really bad PMS or PMDD, who contemplates suicide every month when they're in the ludial phase. cutting that out completely and getting rid of the sort of emotional roller coaster is something that is incredibly therapeutic to women who have a lot of psychological reactions. They're changing hormones over the cycle. So, I mean, there's a lot to be said about the birth control pill. And again, it's just really about educating women. Like, what do you need to be looking out for if you go on it?

What are your different options if you don't like the way that you're feeling? And what are those tradeoffs that you're making? And so that way each one of us can go into the decision eyes wide open, right? Because I think that a lot of us have just been like, oh, sure, I'll take the pill. And we're just thinking about what it's doing, you know, from the neck down in terms of influencing whether we release an egg without thinking about the other types of effects it can cause. And so it's just really putting everything into perspective. So that way people can make informed decisions because there's nothing scary and there are a lot of benefits to it.

Yeah. I love this conversation because it's like it's all bad. No, I'm kidding. But I love your article how to choose the least worst option. I mean, that's what we're all looking for, right? Like, I chose the least worst option to me. I believe like crazy. But it's like that would, what you deal with is like a nightmare to be,

but you weren't willing to do hormones. So it's like you had to do what you've got to do. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, all of us are different, you know, and it's like in who you are even right now might be very different from who you are in 10 years. You know, you might make different tradeoffs in 10 years. You might decide that no, you know, I don't mind a funky period.

Like, I want hormones. I mean, each one of us, like, it's all about empowering women with information because all of us are different and there's no way that I could say to somebody with a straight face, like this is what you should do because I don't know what you should do. You know what you should do. A question that we got overwhelmingly was birth control and fertility. I just think this is like, let's talk about the truth because I think there's a lot of wrong information out there. Yeah. So, okay, so let me say this. I'll start with the official response and it's backed up by science, right is that that it does not harm fertility period okay so like taking the birth control pill

shutting down your HPG access like especially if you're taking the birth control pill as an adult so let's say you're 25 years old you start the pill or you're 20 years old even you start the pill and you're on it and then you decide to go off at 30 right that act of suppressing your hormones is not bad for your fertility and that's that the evidence doesn't support the idea that is bad for fertility this doesn't mean that that's 100 you know it's like we don't it's like we don't could and we haven't discovered it with science yet. And this isn't to say that it's not within the realm of possibility because anything's within the realm of possibility. Science is just based on what we know right now. Right. And what we know right now, it's not. I just think you hear like,

yeah, like in a place I like have to debunk this like, well, I've been on birth control for so many years. So that's why it's like if your period's back to normal, the birth control didn't make you. Right. Yes. No, it didn't. How close are we to male birth control? And can we can you speak on because let's make them take the head. I know. Can you like men don't have to think about any of this. Not a bit. Makes me feel crazy.

None of it. No, I know. I know. So it's always going into clinical trials. There's a male birth control pill that essentially works by keeping men's levels of testosterone so low that they don't produce sperm. And like to start with, I don't know what man would take that because men are like so weird about their testosterone.

But also, um, any time that they like try clinical trials of this. drug. Men don't. Well, yeah. Or they discontinue it because of the side effects. And the side effects are just like the side effects that women have when we're on hormonal birth control because it essentially does the same things. And it suppresses their HPG axis, their brain gonatal axis and shuts it down.

And men don't like the way it makes them feel so they quit. I haven't thought about that. Yeah. And the reason that we are willing to put up with it and they're not is because we're the ones, who have to bear the consequences of pregnancy. Yeah. You know, as far as we're concerned, if we don't take our birth control

and deal with the side effects that we don't like, it's like, well, it's that or I'm getting pregnant, right? For men, if it's like, well, if I don't take this, then I guess my girlfriend has gone on the pill. You know? So it's like, they're like making a totally different set of choices. And so because of that,

they're just like not willing to put up with it. And it's bullshit. I don't think that they're ever, they're ever going to be able to put one of those out there that are, you know, something that men are, going to want to use. I will say that I just found out, I read a paper in nature. This is fascinating, and I'm so excited about it, and I hope it works in humans. In mice, they isolated some sort of derivative of vitamin A, this like breakdown product of vitamin A that our body doesn't really use

for anything else except for spermatogenesis. Right. So what they have done in mice is they find that if you have them take a pill that blocks the action of this nutrient derivative, that it prevents sperm production and therefore prevents pregnancy. How awesome is that? The idea of just like blocking a nutrient that your body doesn't really use for anything else. So it's not going to like make your hair fall out. Your teeth turn brown. Right. And that all it's going to do is like prevent the creation of sperm. I'm really excited about it. They've shown that it works in mice. I'm I'm hoping that they're able to get this to replicate in human models and also find that it is actually, you know, this isolated effect.

But if that works, buy stock in that company. Because, I mean, that is huge. That'll be huge. Yes, thank you for the trading tip. But I think this, like, goes out saying, like, you don't want to be on birth control and then you make your partner wear a condom. I mean, if you, you know, it's just like there's, we know that there are other. I mean, that's like not a hot take, but don't let a male partner force you into birth control because.

Yeah, no, absolutely not. No, it's like your partner can wear a condom or you can get a vasectomy, which are reversible. So there's lots of things that you can do that have nothing to do with your hormones. I just like, it's so funny to me that like it's hard to develop male birth control because there's nobody that will participate in the trials fully. Like I never even thought about this that like you have to really sell this to men and men are like, I don't have to deal with the long term consequences of this and I'm not going to. Well, it's so crazy because it's like we live in this world where it's like, oh my God,

the thought of men not having as much testosterone is like horrifying, but here we are with not our hormone that makes us feel the same way. And like I wonder if it's just kind of like this narrative that women aren't as horny as men. I wonder if this boils down to us needing to be on birth control on some level. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, seriously, I think that it is part of that. It's part of that whole narrative, right, where it's like men, men's hormones make them virile and awesome and women's hormones make them booty and irrational. crazy. Yeah. So like let's quash women's hormones and let's make sure that we have a clinic on every corner to enhance men's testosterone levels. Yeah, it's bullshit. Double standard. Well, thank you for this. This was really wonderful. We loved you in the documentary and your book is great. I'm sure people would want to find more about you and you a great website and Instagram. So tell people everywhere that they can find you. Yeah. So I'm on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and TikTok. my handle is Sarah E. Hill, PhD.

That's Sarah with an H. And then Sarah Ehill.com. And that's also where you can find my book. You can find resources. I blog sometimes and I'll talk about science related to women's reproductive health and the brain. Okay. Great.

Well, thank you so much. We loved having you and having this discussion. Thank you. I loved having it too. It's super fun. And you guys know where to find everything you need related to girls got to eat, including tickets.

All of our upcoming shows are on sale now. So grab tickets to those and get merchandise, wear them to the shows, have your hawk girl summer, and sign up for the newsletter. That's where you get all the tea first. You can follow us on Instagram at Girls Got to Eat Podcast. I am Ash Hess on everything, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter. Raina is Raina.org.

We are Girls underscore Got to Eat on Twitter. And we will see you guys next week with a huge announcement. Yes. We'll see you guys next week. Have a great week. We'll see you on Monday. Bye.