Girls Know Nothing - Amiee Smale | Leaving Asos & Starting Her Own Fashion Brand "Odd Muse"

Episode Date: February 16, 2024

GKN is a female-focused podcast hosted by  @SharonNJGaffka GKN Social Channels: Https://linktr.ee/girlsknownothing  Instagram: @girlsknownothingpod  Tiktok: @girlsknownothingpod TikTok: @girlsknownothing

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your self-care it sounds really weird I tell everyone I google them and some people are really freaked out by it they're like oh my god what did you get but I couldn't even come up for me probably not quite a few things actually but like I couldn't figure out what you studied oh okay that was the one thing that I couldn't find about you maybe I should have just looked at your LinkedIn it probably was on there wasn't it um I studied fashion buying because that explains your transition to being an assistant buyer at ASOS yeah yeah so have you always wanted to work in fashion? So yeah, I always wanted to go into fashion. And I think when I was like 12 years old, I was like,

oh, you think fashion is like a fashion designer? That's what you think it is. And then I was introduced to buying, which is like the business-y side of fashion, like the numbers. And I just thought it was so interesting that once you create a product you then actually have to consider okay if it's stores for example how many size smalls are going to that store and how many units do we need of this and what's the margin like I just found all their moving parts to actually releasing a product so interesting um so that's what made me want to get into to-in. And I do think it has led to, a lot of people say Odd Muse is like an overnight success. Yeah. But I think it's because I put a lot of time into things

that maybe I wouldn't have thought about had I not studied fashion buy-in, had I not practiced fashion buy-in. Because everyone I speak to, like when I was in school, they wanted to go into fashion. I'd never heard anyone say they would like specifically wanted to do buying. So like, what was it about it that was like? I think it was just, yeah,

the business side of things. I've always been very into enterprising. Like I love business and I love fashion. And I, yeah, I just really thought buying was where it was at. Like, don't get me wrong. It was once I got into the industry it's you know it wasn't all what it cracked up to be and that's what really led me to

sort of say to myself actually I want to start my own brand and take matters into my own hands um but the experience was just amazing like every single day was different I think that's the thing with fashion and even just anything in sort of industry whether it's fashion telly social media I always wanted a job where no two days were the same yeah I think I definitely have that um so yeah I think I just I get bored very easily doing the same thing and it has to be like different every day I know a lot of people feel like that um so yeah it was also in that as well. ASOS is like quite a competitive grad scheme to get into isn't it like I always see people on LinkedIn making the

most creative like applications. Yeah so my journey my actual the onboarding process at ASOS was actually something I was thinking about last night when I was reading through the questions and I don't think I've actually like spoke about how they actually onboarded me and it was just like the weirdest process like I basically got an interview I was so excited I got the job and then I never heard from them for about five months that would give me so much anxiety well it was more so like I'm telling everyone I've got the job at ASOS and everyone's like oh five months five months later, oh, when are you starting at ASOS? No, it was like I was like lying and I thought, oh, my God, this is so cruel. Like by the end of it, obviously I think I ended up starting in the march

and I'd basically realised that they'd interviewed me and made me successful for when a role comes up. So from their perspective, it's like if someone leaves, we've got someone on on there but they never explained that to me so I was sort of like waiting from uni for a long time to start ASOS I felt a little bit stuck because I really wanted to work at ASOS but I didn't really feel like I could get another job and say to them oh I might leave next week if ASOS call me yeah um so I thought I thought I thought back on that last night and I thought wow like I would never do that as an employer I think that's so savage like a girl fresh from

uni she's studied fashion for three years she's excited to get out into the working world she's told she's got this job and she has to wait five months to start but then that also means that it could be even longer than five it could have been longer than five months right oh 100% and don't get me wrong like um you know it was a turn of events that you know I ended up going on the most perfect department for what I'm doing it introduced me to a lot of brands that I had never heard of before that I really aspired to be like um but yeah I just was thinking about that last night like I just don't know it might be quite common from an employer's point of view um but I think it's quite cruel I've never seen

it think of like when I got my first job whether that was I think that happened to me but I think it was like slightly different that I was like going through all the security stuff so then it wasn't no I was just like entry level fashion girl just wanted to get in there and they had me waiting that's actually that would cause me so much anxiety and upset like what did you do so embarrassed I remember we was like I went out with my mom at the Christmas to get a new coat because I was going to be a commuter and then it still didn't start till the summer what did you do for five months I was just like working I think I was just like working in a

store in a shopping center like just waiting to get a call oh that's no that must be really disheartening it was so disheartening that's the perfect word for it was so disheartening but I know I still see that on LinkedIn like a lot of people talking about how like ASOS is like their dream company to go work for so what advice would you give to anyone that's aspiring to like kind of go into ASOS um or into buying even to be totally honest asos specifically was an amazing place to work it was um the experience was amazing the people there were lovely the from the moment i started and then from like what i know now it's quite stressful from like a progression point of view but if you go into fashion knowing that maybe

you want to take it into your own hands one day like what I don't know if that totally should stop you from dream from going somewhere that you dream of working out because like I didn't get a pay rise at ASOS my whole two years I was there but I learned so much yeah and I enjoyed it and it took me like a long time to really get over that like I wanted the next level and I wanted more money and you know you study you study for three years like if you're like me so a lot of my friends had gone straight into work after school after college I was like behind financially and then I started working at ASOS and I was like oh I'm still poor like I'm still like especially after travel I was commuting in and you know people rent and stuff so there's so many things that just like eat your wage each month and uh yeah I was just I'm still just like

you know I need a bit more money but you know I got into a headspace for my final year there where I was like I just need to be so rich in experience here and that's that's where I'm sort of building so yeah I think just going to that space with just like a bit of a stronger future mindset yeah um personally I think if you actually want to work your way up in fashion I think startup brands are where it's at okay I think progression is much quicker you're you're able to speak to um a lot higher people there's people in asos that i just would never have even spoke to because they were so high up and there were so many layers to it and when i think about the girls who work for me i think about how my journey cut would have been

like a little bit more different if i just not took a chance on a smaller brand but just worked with a smaller brand that isn't asos like i do feel like you're exposed to a lot more in a smaller brand like all my girls were at my london fashion week show like working runway and it's like you just get and they all you know they all get time with me and as i'm hiring more senior people i'm making sure there's not layers they're able to like directly speak to these people with loads of experience so I think if you're from a fashion point of view get in with a startup I always think as well people always think startups are a little bit more risky no absolutely but actually I think with industries like fashion there's a lot of risk

anyway like people are looking for smaller brands now to buy absolutely I mean I actually hired one of the girls that I used to work with at ASOS and you know I waited a year and a half to ask her to come over I was never going to expect her to leave ASOS and come take a chance on my brand you know you do have in you do have to prove yourself as a startup but if you can find a brand that's been operating for two three years you know they're they're big on socials it looks like you know a fun thing to be a part of try and try and get in with that way because sometimes like bigger bigger brands you can just get lost in it it's just literally the classic saying of like a big pond little fish and they always want people like they

always want a longest list of requirements whereas I think we've like when I've been in hiring I've always looked at people that are like look like they're hungry like they want to be oh absolutely and I feel like that makes a massive difference absolutely ambition is everything but what was it like so what was the transition into starting odd muse like did you just wake up one day and think I'm gonna start my own brand it was actually over covid um I just spent far too much time with myself and was just like I just want to do this myself I actually got moved from my department as well onto beauty and I think beauty buying is completely different to fashion um at least for me it was and yeah I was just really upset by it and I had actually been working on odd muse like just as

a hobby like it was on my ipad just on my commute in like writing ideas down designing so I felt like I had like all these like little bits and I just sort of pieced it together and I remember my mum just like begged me not to quit I don't know I just had one day it was actually the the girl who I ended up hiring I had actually made my way back to the department and they was going to move her off so I could come back oh no and I just felt so bad so I rang her and I was like oh do you off so I could come back. Oh, no. And I just felt so bad, so I rang her, and I was like, do you know what, I'm just going to quit. Oh, my God.

I've got a brand that I'm starting. I was going to, like, manage to, but I'm just going to go for it. I'm sure ASOS will have me back. I'm sure someone somewhere will let me work for them if it doesn't plan out. And I think when you're, I was 21 at the time, when you're I was 21 at the time when you're 21 or 22 at the time when you're that young you're living with your parents you you got nothing to lose just like if you're in that position just do it that's like I've never looked back and it sounds

so scary but like what would my life be if I didn't do that but to start a brand like that there must be like quite a lot of costs and stuff behind it oh yeah that was yeah that was a whole thing like i spent every penny so like all of your savings all of my savings i was like 22 years old i had about 12 000 pounds in the bank and that i'd say you're going for a 22 year old well yeah i was doing like oh my god like leading up to launching of muse i was very aware my asos wage wasn't going to cut it so i would literally i've learned like very basics of graphic design and i would make menus for local restaurants and i would do anything like brochures and stuff like that i didn't try and like make it a big thing on social media and start making for different brands i literally just was going to local companies like do you need a bit of help like I can design your new logo I can like make you a brochure restaurants I can do your menu

and that's how I built up the funds for odd me is very very random um does anyone know that you decided that really it's so funny but yeah I used to do that I used to literally stay up till like four in the morning doing all the stuff and then log on at asos oh my god I don't know how I ever done that like I can't stay up till like 10 o'clock these days but you know again while you're young take advantage of like your energy and yeah yeah I wish I did a lot more of that because I always used to think I was tired back then and now I'm like nothing is tired now than it was back then but um I know that odd news is basically founded on like the principles of slow fashion um so why was it important for you to create a slow fashion brand as opposed to fast fashion so when I started at ASOS I obviously like I mentioned I come from uni very low wage

and I don't know I just felt like all that was being promoted to girls of my age was fast fashion. Like I genuinely didn't know that there was like this middle ground between like YSL, unattainable, high luxury and PLT. And then I started working at ASOS with like premium mid luxury brands that they were all in Australia. Um, and I just thought, why is no one trying to sell me a hundred pound jacket like that I could wear over and over again I just didn't feel like there was anyone bridging the gap between fast fashion and luxury and almost the market was assuming that younger women in the UK can only buy fast fashion and that's all they'll buy and then I started really thinking about it like how much do you act how much does how much over consumption does this actually promote yeah how much money are people actually

spending so then I sort of come up with the idea of investment fashion and like wearing things over and over again like normalizing outfit repeating and I think the products always stuck to that message like there are like this is the first piece I ever designed and I still wear it like four years later so I think also my mission was clear but my products always lived through that so all the dresses we release go into they're not a summer collection we're gonna we can sell it to you in the winter and stuff like that so I think it was just slowing down fashion but coming from an approach that no one else was really in I mean you pretty much answered my like next question when I was going to talk to you about sustainability and like what the transition was like between working at ASOS and then starting your own brand in terms

of sustainability but like does that influence you like because it influences your color palettes right because you pick very like they're not like they're like lime greens and stuff they're like core colors and then see we actually have started doing like more seasonal colors so like in the summer we'll do like one piece in one color and it'll be like the smallest order run so we do do that like you have to balance like trend and sustainability um like I did read that you come from a very small town and did you ever find that when I find that when you're from a very small town. And did you ever find that when, I find that when you're from a small town and you have a big dream

that seems completely abnormal to where you're from, it's not, you kind of get, not picked on, but like people really doubt how you can manage it or accomplish what you want. I think for me, like, yeah, I feel like I'm definitely from a small town but you know I don't know I just feel like 2020 was such a game-changing year like we were all in small towns but we were all connecting and I literally saw that as the biggest opportunity to reach the

whole world like everyone was on their phone so I think I definitely in terms of like how it maybe was a challenge I think yeah confidence was like a big thing like I didn't think that people from you know where I am from can do things but like that but I don't know I just feel like social media is just like the wildest place like there's people that like change their life dancing on TikTok why can I not why can I not design and show and get people to buy my stuff from all over the world so I think talent really shines through no matter what your sort of background is because I think as well on the odd news socials you are literally like the face of

the brand as well like every single video piece of like odd news content I see you are like yeah I kind of just like fell into it because I don't know I just knew straight away that like the world's like the patience with TikTok and like people's patience is three seconds like literally so I can't just do a photo shoot with a couple models and that be it like I have to be doing like content every single day um and I just felt like the most accessible way was me um so yeah but that has really grown the brand because one thing I in my journey of starting Obmuse I there were so many questions that I had for the likes of Connor Walker and like people who are owning these brands that just really don't and respectfully to them they don't put themselves out there because maybe they feel like they don't

need to or they don't want to um so I always try and be a founder that I wanted to be inspired by when I was starting out. And I think people can really sort of connect to me in that sense because, you know, I am trying to move mountains with this business. But I'm also like literally dancing on TikTok and like it's really not that serious. Is it scary for you to also be the face of your brand um the social media can be cruel yeah I've had such a positive experience to be totally honest but one thing I would say is I think the more big odd news gets I probably receive that a little bit more um but I don't know I just don't care I really don't care but I don't feel like I've hit it enough to you know be affected like I've never had that I've had I've had like a few comments but you know I just feel way more sad for people that have to like

have a fake name and and like that's just crazy to me my favorite piece of content I think I saw you make recently was like when you were wearing a dress you read released yeah um the black cap sleeve dress and you're like if you see anyone else this is an odd news dress like you know the one where you constantly say the brand name like all the logos like go for the photos like that is the one that really sticks my head because sometimes I've seen like your content on other websites yeah no but for example going back to like maybe negative comments and stuff so many people will comment on things like all this girl does is talk about people copying her clearly it's not please click through to obmuse and see how the many different types of

content I'm doing but also guys if you're being copied in any if your face is literally being on another brand or they're copying your design speak up like what's wrong with that like I'll talk about it till I literally die like there's nothing wrong with that it's your baby like exactly I don't think it's flattering for someone to like steal your ideas exactly 100% like people be like all you do is talk about fast fashion and but like yeah because it's a problem like we're not going to speak about problems um so yeah it's it's quite interesting um what would you say to people because like I know people that have always wanted to start their own brands but they're too scared to like invest the money or take the initial leap like what would you say to

those people I mean you've got a you've just got to be in it to win it and a reality like that is business and I feel like I feel like a lot of people a lot of men go into business from like a monetary point of view and understand that you know you've got to spend a lot of money to make a lot of money with my situation and maybe other girls going into fashion there's a lot more emotion in it there's a lot more passion and that's why we have such an opportunity to succeed um but the money and the investment side of things is by far the scariest part. But unfortunately, it is a reality. So I genuinely went into Obmuse and it took two years of mental prep to say to myself,

if I don't get this £12,000 back, you know, I can say I tried. And that like takes a lot. But also one thing I would say as well, like one thing I really tried to explain to my parents was I'm you know I'm investing this money into a brand but most of that investment is going into stock yeah I'm gonna have stock so even if the worst happens and I have to sell it all for cost price like I'm gonna get some money back so I really sort of just you got a thing you've got almost got like girl math the risk like to be totally honest that would be my biggest bit of advice for any women wanting to go into like a fashion brand like you're buying stock like that stock don't think that stock is worth nothing you're not like putting it into I don't know crypto or any sort of online thing you're

literally gonna get product that you can sell you might not be able to sell it for the full price that you wanted to even if you sell it for half you're gonna be fine I do think as well maybe with our parents generation is that they were always told to like finish school get a nine to five work till you retire save for a house and that I feel like that is in society as well now like everyone sort of leaves uni or leaves college goes to work and like their next big thing is saving for a house yeah I that I was not saving for a house I didn't start saving for a house until a couple years ago like I know that sounds so silly but there's I just feel like there's so many I'm a I'm big on like energy and I've always said to myself like it's this is

so weird but I've always said to myself money is easy I've always told myself if you can spend money so easily why the hell can't you make money so easily yeah so like everything you're spending that money on something exactly money can go like this money can come like that and if it's not coming for you like that then you know just know that it can and there's a way that it can so I don't know there's a there's a lot of delusion in my journey that has got me somewhere but I never I never ever left uni and thought yeah I'll save for a house and I think you have to have that sort of like not advice not really advisory delusion yeah to get somewhere I think most successful people you know maybe didn't save for a house well it's like I was saying to my dad

like they're all everyone that owns a big any big corporation started off with the risk Jeff Bezos quit his job and started a bookshop in his garage exactly now it's like the biggest company in the world exactly risk is reality it is what it is no it's it's one of those things it's really hard I get it's like can be scary and your parents always want the best for you and they want you to be like safe and comfortable but it's also very boring exactly exactly I mean you know some for some people like it's not it like for example my sister always says to me like you know I could never do what you do I like going to work I like knowing exactly what I'm going to earn I like knowing exactly when I'm going to get paid and I 1000% appreciate that But if you want to go into business, risk is reality.

If you, Luna, as a woman leader, and maybe not necessarily in the fashion industry, but just as a female CEO in general, do you think that you've faced any gender challenges at all? To be totally honest, I don't think I have yet. I mean, I think the space I'm in like women women absolutely champion like when I think about female brands and female designers don't get me wrong there's so many men's wear men's designers that design for women that are amazing like the guy currently designing

for Schiaparelli or JW Anderson they're like high in luxury when it comes to this sort of mid luxury price point that women actually are going to wear every day and it's not for Kim Kardashian on the runway and on the catwalk or whatever, when it comes to this sort of mid-luxury price point that people can afford and that women want, this is the space I'm in that women are absolutely championing,

I personally think. So don't think I've reached that yet. However, this year I am sort of focusing on you know who am I outside of odd muse and I want to get more into investing and I think I think that's where I'm going to come into it because when it gets like quite businessy I think that's where you know people are surprised I think as well when you look at when you look at Dragon's Den as well it's mostly male dragons I know but there's loads of women in business that have had successful businesses and I like here like I here like I need to look into it more but like

in terms of like women-led businesses getting investments it's a lot lower than um men so I think I think definitely it's come in but for the space I'm in right now I've sort of kept myself to myself and spoke directly to my customers on social media I've never took an investment or anything like that so I think it's I think it might be coming um you know when you earlier you were talking about how you found it really important to be able to speak to all of your like all the people that work for you and that to be seen as like an accessible leader um how why do you think that's so important and like how do you help create those supportive relationships in odd muse i think it's so important because again as when we go back to what we maybe mentioned of people maybe seeing like

startups as a bit of a risk more than an opportunity your biggest opportunity is being able to like speak directly to people that you want to learn from and I really respected that in ASOS like I had a great fashion buyer and normally in like a structure you wouldn't really speak like the I was a buyer's admin you wouldn't really get that much access to your buyer and I so appreciated her and she would let me like write orders and let me do things that were like way beyond what I should be doing. I should have literally, all I was doing was, you know, creating the orders and taking it round to studio for shoots and making sure we have samples.

Like I shouldn't be like deciding units for asos.com. And she allowed me that. What a terrifying job. Yeah. and I really really respected that and I've been really really precious about keeping that because I asos taught me like that you know experience and learning is just so valuable um and I'm as the business grows I'm really trying to protect. So like as I'm bringing more senior people in, like the girls at whatever level get direct catch-ups with them and get to speak to them and learn from them and like have their one-to-ones.

So yeah, it's a fine line when the business grows because it's sort of like what is my capacity when I have, I mean currently I think I've got about 25 girls at the moment, but what will be my capacity giving everyone a piece of me when there's 100 girls or something like that? So, sorry, not girls, not just girls. I was going to say, because you say girls, did you? We hired our first man.

Did you? So I was going to say, was it important to you to mostly hire women or is it just happened by chance? I think my team was genuinely like all the applicants have been been women okay and probably lovers of the brand right yeah and it's just like yeah it's just I mean fashion is predominantly like women-led also again my office is like not in London yet so it's more so like local people working in fashion it just tends to be more girls because it's yeah they all come from fashion union stuff like that so as I'm hiring

more senior people like I'm getting a lot more male applicants and I actually hired my first man which has been an amazing experience and I'm sort of really excited to diversify my team to be totally honest um but hiring at the very beginning is like a bit of a minefield like you know it's when I first put up until a year ago putting job ads out for old news was a nightmare like I couldn't get applications like it's just very difficult because of that risk people feel like there is more progression in places like ASOS and more security in places like ASOS whenever you have like a board of senior people don't try and obviously there's going to be layers of management but don't try and make people not accessible because like people respect like learning so much I know it's

not um a question that I'd kind of put down originally but you know you're saying you're talking about future plans for hiring if somebody wanted to come work for you yeah what would be the thing that would make them stand out because I'm assuming you read all the CVs right yeah yeah um I actually read this is I don't know if this is like normal but all the CVs that come through to me lately are just like an amazing piece of artwork oh wow it's no longer a sheet with words on it like people put photos of themselves on there which I don't think is crazy necessary but people do like just like they'll if they're listing their skills they'll have like little icons like powerpoint adobe photoshop like all the icons and I really appreciate a creative cv

yeah there's loads of examples online for that like a creative cv I really appreciate that and the thing I most appreciate is a cover letter because people can send out the same tv all day but I like to see why you specifically want to work for Obmuse um so that's what I sort of look for because I think create in a creative cv you can see the passion and in a cover letter you can get a bit more of that sort of ambition in there as well so that's what I sort of look for in terms of like that first look it's weird because um I've always worked at very corporate jobs where they literally are words floating on a page and I'm not a creative person but I hated doing it because it was just black and white words on a page and it was like it just didn't feel like authentically me that was like one of the things

I did just before I left uni like we had a whole workshop on like building our CV and they said to us like be creative don't don't don't just two words on a page and I thought that was all my CVs now that come through are like that and I really appreciate that I feel like I should have done an Elle Woods with like pink scented paper on my CVs um oh no no I should wear my I do this all the time where I don't wear my glasses oh I do that I can't see what I'm looking at I legally can't drive without my glasses yeah I'm the same as well I couldn't read the number plate on the test day oh he was like get in the car I think I had to really squint because I think I forgot my glasses on test day so I was like I probably shouldn't have admitted that but anyway when you start any company you are literally every single person right you're the social media person you're the buyer the seller

like everything how did you manage all of those different roles um it was chaos and when I think to when I first hired like my first when I think to my first hire it was way overdue but when I look back at that time and arguably now like I have I wear so many different hats like I'm still not the team is still not fully grown um but yeah it's chaos but it's kind of like no one can run anything past me like I literally understand I feel like I do just understand like even if it's just on a basic level all parts of Obmuse um so I actually like really like champion that era of like starting a business and being everyone. But then how, so now you're transitioning to growing your team.

Obviously letting go of things can be really difficult. Again, I think I let it go way overdue to a point where it just completely was like mentally not okay for me. So I'm like happily like handing things over. But I'm still like involved in like everything to an extent is like if there's anything nothing goes to socials or product no product goes out nothing goes out without my approval so I still feel like I can manage that control there's loads of things that I stop and say oh no we're not going to do that or we're going to change that um but yeah in terms of like handing things over it's been quite seamless because yeah I'm still in office most days and I'm still very much involved it's just like having a bit more help

so how do you manage that like CEO work now and your personal life because obviously like that sometimes it feels like it takes over I feel like I'm just in that this transition at the moment because genuinely like I officially started the brand when I was 22. I'm 27 on my next birthday. And I'm like I've done nothing the last four years but work. So I'm really trying to like find what, like when I said to you earlier, like investment or anything. I'm really trying to find like what I want to do outside of Obmuse

and like who I am outside of Obmuse rather than like just escaping and just going on holiday for a week break from it um so I still feel like my answer is a bit don't know yet but I'm that's my 2024 goal have you tried any weird hobbies yet to see if you're gonna like them I'm trying to get into horse riding I feel like a lot of people are really trying horse riding yeah I'm very like I like like calm and like wholesome stuff and I used to ride when I was younger so like horse riding is where it's at for me at the moment and just honestly like feeling out is there anything else that you're like I literally don't leave the house it's really bad my friends joke like my friends were texting me today like oh you left you left the house

since I did runway in September I've literally been hiding in my house so what was runway like um it was the most amazing experience but leading up to it it was just like insane chronic stress like burnout like I still don't feel like I'm fully recovered I think that's one thing like when you own a business like they say like oh take your time like self-care blah blah sometimes you genuinely don't have the time like I didn't have a week after runway to relax. Like it's, you have to sort of like keep it moving. Like the show must go on, especially when you're like on socials and like every day some way, somehow I have to show up.

Whether it's speaking to the team, whether it's a Zoom call, whether it's meeting, whether it's something for socials, whether it's, so it it's difficult and I think I've never really I've never had the chance in the last four years to just be completely mind blank so I really crave that um and runway like yeah it tipped me over the edge but it was still the best thing I've ever done and I'm going to do it again this year so what was the reason for wanting to do runway because I know a lot of like fast fashion brands decided to do their own runways

I think I just wanted to do something that I love doing things that people don't expect from of muse I love doing things that arguably if I had an investor they'd be like oh girl like you can't do that yet um so again I think it's the risk element I like runway was a risk it was like more than I'd spend on my wedding but oh my god I don't want to know how much you spent then but the brand grew amazingly it was the best investment like everything about the brand doubled like daily orders the team everything just went amazingly and I saw that when we did our first pop-up shop in March last year everything about the brand doubled and i feel like i have to take these huge jumps that feel so scary to grow my brand so yeah because you've now you had a pop-up in australia

or like are you now officially launched in australia so we partnered with david jones in australia which is sort of like the self-produce of australia yeah um so yeah we've got loads of like wholesale partnerships going on we're in Harvey Nichols now we're hopefully launching in like a huge huge department store in America this year um so yeah all of that is just like scary but I just like I really believe that I can put this brand in front of everyone and it you know some way somehow there's going to be a nice flattering dress for every woman so I'm really just yeah it went crazy over in Australia didn't it yeah Australia I need to like visit Australia and like find out like like understand like that market a little bit more

because it just they love it out there but one thing I would say is odd news was born from like australian mid-luxury brands that we was stocking on asos um and mid-luxury is such a market out there but they don't necessarily shop fast fashion at all they don't really they do like luxury accessories but it's this mid-luxury price point and actually what you can get in australia like a little summer dress is probably about 300 quid so odd muse steps in and you can get in Australia like a little summer dress is probably about 300 quid so odd me steps in and you can get this really structured dress for about 150 steps in as like a great price point and that's why like places like David Jones that cannot get enough of it maybe I need to I need to go to Australia now just to see what it's like there I think it's a January vibe out there yeah it must be but like I literally remember seeing like on LinkedIn and stuff like that because you are very prominent on LinkedIn.

Like how crazy it was in Australia when you guys launched there. Yeah, Australia. And this is one thing I would say like, just moving out of the question a little bit, but in terms of like growing your brand beyond the UK, like Australia, like the UK completely dies in January, but it's Australia's peak season. It's like Derby day and it's like their summer and it's stuff like that so I think one thing about growing up Muse has been I have a customer all around the world

and I never ever started this brand relying on the UK I was much bigger in the US before I was ever in the UK oh wow yeah I was I was sending I was sending at the moment we send 50% of our orders to the US and the rest is split between uk australia and other places but i immediately was targeting other countries because the uk is hard like if you make it in the uk you can make it anywhere i feel like the uk has like a massive influx of like influencers and yeah all these people trying to sell stuff all the time led like yeah it's like and obviously with like certain other things going on in the world, like sometimes the economy is so affected, like it's such a difficult market.

And I only hit it about a year and a half ago. Like I really wasn't in the UK at all. Like I was big on socials, but it was all American. So yeah. That's really interesting actually. I didn't know that. I just feel like if you want to grow a business from a product perspective, yeah, the UK is is amazing but it's definitely the hardest definitely one of

the hardest places I was going to ask you actually about your self-care routine before I got distracted by Australia like what what do you do for yourself like everyone talks about self-care like I've seen 2024 like self-care is in yeah so what is your version of self-care what is my version of self-care at the moment like I think self-care when in. So what is your version of self-care? What is my version of self-care? At the moment, like I think self-care when you're like genuinely a really busy person and it's hard to fit in, I think it's just little things that you can do to make it a bit more manageable. Like I've all of a sudden started working from home so much and it's not ideal, but if you own your own business and you have that freedom and you just need to spend the day in bed with your laptop like that's sometimes what I have to do and it's a

reality and I am really benefiting from just like not looking at my phone in the evenings like I can be there's so many things like when you run a business like especially when it's in fashion like I could sit on pinterest for about four hours and like the time just goes same with instagram same with tiktok You think you're doom scrolling, but actually you're working. Exactly. Like you can almost justify it, but then like it doesn't work.

So I think I honestly have seen the biggest benefit from like putting my phone down and just like doing nothing but skincare and stuff like that. So I think that's, my routine is honestly just finding the time and I feel so I feel such an achievement when I can find the time I don't even think about like the steps it's more so just like making sure you have that time even if it's like an hour of your day I started doing this on the

train and I think people do find it a bit weird but that's sometimes because I don't always wear makeup day to day so if I'm going somewhere and I'm not you know there's like um led face masks yeah I will sit on the train with one really I don't care people do like mine and I love it I've sat on the plane with it I've sat on the train with it plane I definitely do play yeah a lot of um commuters from like where I live into London look at me like I'm an absolute psychopath if I'm wearing this like it is quite a scary thing luminous mask yeah I just don't care this is the only time I've got to do it that's the thing as well like I don't care either like leading I walked from Liverpool Street here rehearsing my answer to the questions people

probably think who's that crazy person talking to herself I don't care like the point is you just can't care yeah that's like self-care or not in life just don't care what anyone around you thinks I do think it's a it's a thing about getting older though isn't it I feel like you care less when you get older that's so true as well that is so true it's the best part about getting older yeah 100% so I because I walk around talking to myself too yeah all day and people just think I'm an absolute I like to talk to myself in the car I talk to myself all the time oh yeah I do it in the car as well yeah like no music gets played in the car. I talk to myself all the time. Oh yeah, I do it in the car as well. Yeah, like no music gets played in my car. It's just like me to me.

In the shower, I talk to myself a lot. Yeah. So if someone interrupts me, like if my dog barks at me when I'm talking to myself in the shower, I'm like, please, this is my time. You can be alone. Talking to yourself is like,

people don't talk about me enough. You have to do it. That's your time. That's your self-care. It actually is. It's like when you were talking about like your delusions

have got you somewhere like the what is it delulu is the salulu that's why I always think about myself in the head I have one of my

friends mums has recently like moved to Dubai and she was telling me when I was visiting her that she like if she's got a problem she just talks to the wall

and I was like that is such she was like why am I gonna like waste someone else's time like venting about something like I'm just gonna talk to the wall I would talk to the mirror I don't think I'd talk to the wall I think talking to the wall is too far my mum already thinks I'm actually crazy so I think if I started doing that yeah but I also talk to my dog too as well to be

fair but that's probably why she does look at me like that um what are your like future aspirations for odd muse like where do you see it going um I really want to build odd muse out to be I don't want to say like an asos.com but I want to hit more boxes than what I'm here and at the moment I feel like I am providing really cute dresses that you want to wear over and over again and that was my mission but I really want to expand that category wise like I really want people to just be able to come to Obmuse and get more from it while balancing that sort of like challenge of like not being not over consuming not buying too much but um just like being a bit of a worldwide solution and to be honest I just want to be able to like scale the brand as far as it can go without like it being such a challenge for me mentally I want to really like be able to

monitor that and like be myself and be odd muse and odd muse can reach the highest points without so much sacrifice from myself because the last four years have been like a crazy amount of sacrifice and I'm still I'm willing to work but like I'll blink and I like if the last four years have been like a crazy amount of sacrifice um and I'm still I'm willing to work but like I'll blink and I like if the last four years have gone from me like I'm three years away from 30 I really want to start like really just enjoying my success and enjoying my life a little bit more outside of work but I don't want odd views to suffer from that so I think that's my goal like I don't see why I can't do both yeah I always think that every time every CEO I've ever spoken to they've always said that that's the challenge like because they've spent so much of

their life making this brand exactly and I think yeah that is going to be the main challenge for me but I don't think like so many people when they talk about like stepping out of their business like it's either like they have to yeah sell it sell a little bit of it on or like they have to make like other sacrifices really I don't want to make any more sacrifice and I want to grow the brand as far as I can so I think it's what that looks like is going to be the other challenge because I don't feel like I've got loads of examples to look at unless you start making odd muse a horse horse clothing yeah when you're horse riding um I always ask all of my guests the same final question so if you could offer your younger self a piece of advice based on your life and career journey

so far what would it be um I think it would be to just enjoy the moment because there's so many things I've done in the last four years that I look back on that runway for example that maybe the experience was tainted a little bit and I didn't live in the moment like the day of runway everyone was like wow are you excited and I was sitting there shaking and I just think and even when I've opened like the store in London and stuff I in that moment I can't enjoy it and I really I just think you have to enjoy the moment because you're literally living your dream and like people you don't you just don't realize that it's like you said like the last four years of your life have kind of gone in like yeah and yeah you just want to be able to look back at that

and think right then in that moment like was the best moment of my life well even though you're three years away from 30 like you still have so many years exactly and it's funny like I realized that the older I get like on my 21st birthday party I was crying because I was like I'm getting so old life is like not even that I'm getting old but I was like life is literally going like all these horrible things are going to happen like but yeah as I get older I'm like wow like I'm still young and I need to start living yeah to be fair I actually also did that on my 21st yeah I was like a mess yeah I was sat at my desk being like I don't like I'm getting old blah blah and I woke up on my 28th and was like yeah oh yeah I'm like

looking forward to my 27th I'm like I'm ready like 26 was like difficult I need 27 now it's because everyone keeps saying like 30 is the new 20 isn't it so like now I'm excited to get to 30 I think it's that yeah um but thank you so much for like taking time out of your lack of self-care time to come and talk to me um I really appreciate it and like I am a big fan of of you and the brand anyway so thank you Thank you. without its expansive 12.3-inch panoramic display. Or the Kia Telluride without its three rows of spacious seating. The 2025 Kia SUVs. Kia. Movement that inspires. Call 800-333-4KIA for details. Always drive safely. Limited inventory available.

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