Girls Know Nothing - S1 Ep11: Comedian Jack Pickering talks Coming Out, accepting his sexuality and building a tiktok following.

Episode Date: October 13, 2022

Girls Know Nothing's eleventh guest is a TikToker - Jack Pickering! This is Jack's first ever podcast he is also our first male guest at GKN!  Jack gained his following on social media for sharing unfiltered relatable stories online on family, relationships and gay humor.   During this episode, Jack opens up about a turbulent childhood, from rocky relationships with family to being bullied at school. As an openly gay man, Jack tells us all about his coming out story, including when he was in secondary school and wasn't as accepting of his sexuality. New episodes of Girls Know Nothing 🧡 will be released every Thursday, and will also be available on Spotify, Apple podcasts and wherever you get your podcast fixes!  GKN Social Channels:  Https://linktr.ee/girlsknownothing  Instagram: @girlsknownothingpod  TikTok: @girlsknownothing

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Just text water to 64,000. That's water to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase. W-A-T-E-R to 64,000. By texting 64,000, you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Hose. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply. Available at pockethose.com slash terms. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates,

so you can reach the people you want faster. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. Don't wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get-K-A-T-Z 13. Just go to Indeed.com slash P-O-D-K-A-T-Z 13 right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Welcome to another episode of Girls Are Nothing. I have my first male guest in the studio. I feel like people will probably know who you are if they're watching the episode, but feel free to give yourself an introduction.

Hello, guys. The first man on the episode. It's a pleasure. I'm Jack. I'm a TikToker. I chat shit online, basically. Great job. It is a good job. And it's hard, I think.

TikTok's a rough place. It can be a very rough place. It can be. But do you know what? It's character building. Everyone says that. Do they? It's a defense mechanism. Yeah, literally. It's character building. I will go over this one day. It's how we cope. This is what my therapist is telling me, so I have to believe it. If you didn't know either me or Jack, I mean, I don't know why you're here, but you know. I mean, thank you for stumbling upon us here. We are from neighboring towns. We are, rivaling.

Rival towns, rival schools. Yeah. I think everyone's going to be really pressed about it, actually. Do you reckon? Yeah, I think we may get some shit from home. Well, it's also Tory HQ of the country. Oh, it is.

So... Which I hate that stigma that we have, is that everyone thinks we're Tories. But you're also in a horse riding club. Yes, I know.

I don't help myself. I don't help myself at all. I played football like a real lad. I played hockey. I'm so bad. Oh, my God. Why didn't you just

play lacrosse instead oh my god i'm not even digging myself in a bigger hole actually i i'm interested to know because i i think my cousins actually went to your school okay so i i hear horror stories all the time but obviously as somebody who came out well who is gay and came out as gay during your time in school, I can imagine that was really tough. So like, I want to know from you about what your coming out story is and what it was like for you.

Yeah, it was definitely in school was like a massive, like, you know, you're filled with loads of other kids your age that just haven't, like, what's the word? They're naive to the fact of what they're saying can actually hurt people they think it's funny um I mean growing up I was always very flamboyant and like I used to dress up as like princesses and play with barbies and wear high heels so I think it was

very obvious from the get-go yeah I remember my mum actually asking me if she um if I was transgender when I was about like seven like my mum asked I remember it clearly and I remember actually thinking about it she didn't say the words transgender actually yeah because I don't think I would have known what that was at the time but she was like so do you think you're a girl because I literally used to just dress up as a girl and play with girl things all the time and that's when I was like thought in my head I was like she was like do you want to be a girl and I was like no actually I want to be a boy. And then after that, literally after that day, I stopped playing with girl things, like, out of my choice. And then, like, a couple of, like, months later,

I remember as well, at seven, I was at seven years old. Oh, so you started young. Yeah, I started realising that I liked men, like, quite young. And I was, like, waiting for my brother outside his friend's house in the car because mum was picking him up. And I was, like, looking at this magazine and it had like Take That in it. God knows what it was. I don't know what it was.

I think it was like towards Christmas and they were doing some sort of like Christmas. Okay. Now 27 or something. I don't know what it was. Anyway, and I saw Gary Barlow and I just fancied him a bit. And my mum was like,

they're hot, aren't they? And I was like, yeah, they are. Out of all the people, I would have thought, you know, when you realise you start to like boys it's embarrassing Gary Barlow

it's Gary I do like a bit of you know Silver Fox though bit of a daddy yeah to be fair because I have a weird obsession

who's that guy that plays James Bond Daniel Craig oh yeah oh my do you oh yeah do you find him weirdly attractive

no just attractive. Okay. Is that weird? For me, yeah. I mean, I wouldn't. I mean, you just said Gary Barlow. I mean, I'm not, I'm not the shame.

We don't do that here. This is a safe place. It's a safe space. Let it all out. So that's, it's weird because, you know, when you always hear like, this is the serious side of it now, but when you go onto TikTok and social media

and on in the internet people are saying that you know when it comes to sex education for young people there is no

LGBTQ element to that education and people are always saying that you don't want to talk about that because it will make kids gay

oh my god I hate it when people say that it's like that new Buzz Lightyear film that's just come out. And there was a lesbian in it.

God forbid. And they had a child and stuff and everyone was like, why are we pushing this on children? Why are we putting lesbianism on children and people who are gay? It's like, they should just be children and stuff. I think they're completely wrong

I think if I was like a younger person like when I was younger I wish I had someone like me let's say who's very openly gay online you know

how like and a lot of people you know you've got James Charles you've got like Jeffree Star you've got like all these majorly

openly gay people which I think help a lot of young gay people and I think things like having Buzz Lightyear and making lesbians normal and like women and women having kids and men and men having kids normal. I think it's like really important for like younger kids to see that because it's breaking that like really old stereotype of like, it's not normal and like you need to be straight and straight is the normal

way to be. It's weird that they talk about why we shouldn't push LGBTQ stuff onto children, when actually, I feel like we push heteronormative values onto children anyway. And, you know, you briefly share, well, I think you've even put on TikTok that you have had asexual experience with a woman. Oh, yes. Do you feel like that was as a result of having heteronorms pushed onto you? Oh, 100%. Do you know what I used to do, actually,

when I started realizing that I was gay is I used to make myself watch lesbian porn because that's what straight men watch. And I thought that's what straight men watch. So I used to try and make myself watch that because that's what straight people do because I was trying to make myself be straight so I think that's where like when I slept with my with a girl and I lost my virginity to her um she was my girlfriend as well actually I was actually in like a long-term relationship with her but it was more like friendship like we're like best friends yeah um but I felt like

yeah I felt like I was like you know if I have sex with a girl then I'm straight you know I mean and then I started trying like watch lesbian porn to try and make myself believe that I was straight and it wasn't until everything went downhill after having sex with the girl because nothing really worked downstairs it was kind of like the confirming that honey you don't like it okay let's just not go back there it's weird that you've like, you've like gone through that process of like, you know, you said trying to make yourself straight. And is that, do you find that that was pressure?

Because if your mum thought, you know, from a young age, there might be an inkling that you're either wanting to be a girl or not straight. Then how it's like, I'm trying to understand the thought process. Like where it came from. Yeah, like trying to make yourself straight. I think did because i grew up with um three brothers and one

of four boys as well who were like macho straight men um but everyone in my family has never ever made me feel like i shouldn't like they very much encouraged me playing with girl things and wearing dresses and putting on wigs and stuff and like my brothers thought it was normal i think it's quite refreshing they got to grow up with me actually because then they've gone into the world with like that headspace. But I think it mainly came from school. Like it came from like from a very young age, like from primary school of the teasing of being gay.

And people like, I used to have really like long wispy hair. The Justin Bieber haircut. Yes. Yeah, I actually made a TikTok about it recently because my dad put it on his instagram story and i look awful um but um people used to like mistake me for a girl because i was so feminine and i had long hair like they used to mistake me for that and i used to get really offended by it i don't know why because i think it's because they were

saying it like to try and offend me and then like it started when i started secondary school you know are you gay are you gay are you gay and I'm like trying to deal with it myself and when people are like saying it to you you know you just want to prove to them that you're not because you just want it to stop because you feel embarrassed and humiliated that they're saying that to you but yeah it did it started it started from school that's where that came from it's it's like um I'm quite openly bisexual and I get asked a lot of the time, like, how do you know? How do you, like,

go through that process of, like, actually understanding? Because, like, you know, I mean, heterosexual men can look at other men

and go, yeah, you're good looking, but how do you know that I, whether you're, like, I appreciate how this person looks

or I actively am into this person. Like you're sexually attracted. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what was the question again? How I basically,

so basically like, you know, I don't know if you've had the similar kinds of messages, but I get asked all the time from a lot of young women, how do they know they're bisexual and not just appreciating

how a woman looks? I mean, I think it's all about experimenting in that kind of situation. I mean, I'm it's all about experimenting in that kind of situation. I mean, I'm not saying if like you're a man and you're attracted to another man, like go and actively seek a sexual relationship with a man. But I think like you need to explore your sexuality

in terms of like, you know, porn. Like go and see what stimulates you through there. I mean, I think that's how a lot of people know that they are, what their sexuality is, is through porn. I mean, we all watch it. We all gone people know that they are, what their sexuality is, is through porn. I mean, we all watch it. We all went through the phase, you know, when we were a teenager and people still now,

I mean, to the age that we all do it, you know what I mean? It's normal. But also having experiences with other people, like I think it's great that people message you and say that I get that as well, actually. Like people asking how they know, like seek it. Like I think it is all so personal to different people,

how they know. And I think it's more accepting than knowing. Like I think you do know. Like I think people, they are confused, but I think they do know deep down. But I think it's more coming to terms with accepting that that's what they're sexually attracted to. Yeah, because I think sexuality is always a journey.

Yeah, it's such a journey. But I think, do you ever think maybe, because obviously you said that your home life was very supportive. Do you feel like your, if you felt like your school life was more supportive, you would have come out earlier? Oh, 100%. I say this all the time that I regret not coming out earlier.

Because I always say this, that coming out is like bungee jumping, right? Bear with. So you're on this ledge, right? Okay. And you're looking down over this ledge and you're thinking if I jump off this cliff I'm gonna go spot on the floor dead that's it worst thing that could ever happen right but then you actually jump off the cliff and you realize you're attached

like this elastic string and you'll bounce straight back up and you're absolutely fine you want to keep doing it over and over again yeah and that's what I say about coming out it's like once you've done it you're like oh my god that was easy liberating yeah like i wish i'd done that sooner it's um it's one thing as well so um obviously like we know which are schools that we both went to um obviously you went to a mixed school yeah do you feel like that would that made it harder or easier to be gay i don't know because i think if I went to a boys school an all boys boys school I wouldn't have my girls do you know what I mean like women have been like my allies the whole way through school like I've only like majority of my friends are women I do have a lot more male friends now I'm older but like back then like women were my go-to my safe place they accepted me I was allowed to be

expressive and you know I'm very overly feminine and camp so place. They accepted me. I was allowed to be expressive. And, you know, I'm very overly feminine and camp. So, like, it was like, you know, I was kind of just like one of the girls, you know what I mean? But, like, I think maybe it would have been easier for me to be gay at a mixed school than it would to be at a boys' school. But then I wouldn't know,

because I have got friends from the Didcot boys' school that were gay and were openly gay. And were like and it was fine yeah because I so obviously like I went to an all girls yeah and a lot of girls I know like through school where they were experimenting with bisexuality or whether they were lesbians yeah and I felt like I don't know if it was just because of the girls that were in my school or because it was an all girls school it kind of felt a bit more accepted you obviously get the whispers in the corridor but I felt like it was more

accepted than knowing my brother went to the boys but I was conscious that if my brother decided or like not decided but wanted to come out as gay he's not but would he feel he could do that and be safe doing that?

Yeah. And I've never experienced a mixed race school. A mixed race? I have experienced a mixed race school. I've never experienced a mixed gender school. Yeah. So then I just don't know. To be honest, it was, I mean, I don't,

I feel like you're going to get the same kind of experience in terms of, you know, your children at school. And it was the boys that bullied me at school. It wasn't the girls. Like, I didn't get anything from girls. I was one of them. I loved it. I did pee with the girls.

That's where the horse riding came in. Well, you know. But yeah, it was definitely more boys. So like, from my experience, bullies, people who have bullied me have been men. So I feel like if I was at an all boys school, then maybe the bullying would have been worse. But that's only based off like what I've experienced.

You know what I mean? Like I said, my friends who are boys, I went to an all boys school and were openly gay there. They were fine and everyone was accepting and it was actually not even seen like bad or like, you know, they weren't teased for it at all at that school. So I guess I think it just is just different and it just depends who it is at what school. I don't think it matters. Do you, like what was bullying like for you?

It was intense, I'm not gonna lie like it was really really intense I don't think I've like properly spoke about it on my social media like I'm quite a jokey person funny I make jokes about things so like on my social media like I'll make funny jokes about it you know like oh got bullied ha ha ha ha but like it was like a lot of my trauma comes from bullying from school like I just told you before that we started filming that I had to get a harassment order against my bully at school. And that was after I got pinned to the floor by two boys and had my face stamped on

by them at school. And the school did nothing. It was awful. My school would kind of like, did not do anything about bullying, but the bullying, it was relentless. It was literally start to finish from day at school. The guy, they used to wait outside my house. They used to follow me home. it was relentless it was literally start to finish from day at school the guys

they used to wait outside my house they used to follow me home I used to in the PE changing rooms used to go in to do PE used to come home

my shoes were full of water in the changing rooms but I never let them change me at all like I never hid from them I was never scared of them

I used to give it back stand up for myself and I was proud of myself for doing that. And my mum always says this, she goes, you've never ever changed for anyone. Yeah. And that's one thing that I would always say to people. And I say it to people like I go, I go live on TikTok a lot. And they always I get a lot of queer boys and girls coming onto the live and go like, I'm getting bullied. What do I say? Just ignore it. Ignore them. They want you to give a reaction. And that's something I wish I did more was ignore them because I gave them

what they wanted. And maybe I taught them on to come on to me more. But one thing I would always say is just ignore them. Don't give them the reaction and carry on being the bad bitch that you are and know that that's your worth. And there's one phrase, there's one quote that I really love and it's, don't try to fit in if you're born to stand out and I feel like gay people queer people have been born to stand out because it's not seen as normal

and we're breaking those like heteronormative stereotypes and like we're born to stand out so just embrace it and like

be proud that you're unique I think as well one thing with with bullies is obviously, it's the same with trolling. When I talk about trolling, it's that they're unhappy. Yeah.

That you're happy. Yes, 100%. And the fact that you've accepted your sexuality and who you are as a person has annoyed them because they've not necessarily accepted parts of themselves they've not dealt with yet. Yeah. But obviously, that's really hard to think about

and remember when you're being physically taunted oh 100% yeah and do you know what's the weird thing about um the bullying is that once I came out it stopped oh really yeah how weird's that I came out my last year of school only about the last eight months and literally stopped dead like and I came out by posting a picture of me and my ex-boyfriend at the time, just on Instagram. And that's how I came out to the school. Isn't that really strange that they don't like the idea of metrosexuality in heterosexual men, but then they're fine when you're openly gay? Yeah, it's so weird it's so weird and ever

since actually i came out i haven't experienced much homophobia even online you know which i find weird because like you know i've got a platform where like i'm seen by hundreds of thousands of people every day and i'm like i don't getophobia. Like I'll get like maybe on a live, I'll get like an odd comment, like it's probably some 14 year old, like just saying some stupid thing. I'm just like, I just ignore it. Cause I'm just like, do you know what I mean?

It doesn't affect me, but I don't get like an overwhelmingly, I'm a very openly like camp and feminine person. I thought I'd get more, but I don't. And ever since that, ever since I came out from school, I haven't really experienced it. That's really, that's really nice to hear.

It's also really interesting because I'd love to be able to compare it one day with a lesbian couple. Yeah, I would too, actually. Because a lot of the quite homophobic things I've read about, they're quite horrific stories, obviously. I tend to be geared towards same-sex women, female couples. Do you ever experience homophobia in the street when you're with your boyfriend? We have experienced homophobia, yeah. And recently, we've actually had an assault happen with Izzy. Did you know about this? Yeah. And where he was... Hi, I'm Richard Karn. and you may have seen me on TV

talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket Hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here, and it's a total game changer. Old-fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's Pocket Pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust-proof anti-burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage.

Plus, your super light and ultra-durable pocket hose Copperhead is backed with a 10-year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what, an exciting exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time, you can get a free pocket pivot and their 10 and their 10 pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size copperhead hose just text water to 64 000 that's water to 64 000 for your two free gifts with purchase w-a-t-e-r to 64 000 by texting 64 000 you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from pocket hose message and data rates may apply no purchase required terms apply available at pocket hose.com slash terms homophobically like attacking my boyfriend. He didn't actually homophobic attack

me, but obviously he knew I was, you know what I mean? Like if he came for Daniel and said he was, but yeah, we have experienced homophobia in the street before. We've had a bit of heckles, especially since moving to London as well. A lot more people here. Do you know what I mean? So like, and from all kinds of people. So like we do experience a little bit, not a lot more people here do you know what I mean yeah so like and from all kinds of people so like we do experience a little bit not a lot not an overwhelming I'm not scared to walk outside on the street and someone think oh he's gay like I'm not scared about that I think maybe that's because I'm actually really comfortable with it like and I don't ever see my sexuality as a barrier ever like I forget I'm gay until someone says you're gay so when you walked in you're like I'm gay by the way

and I was like yes that's just how I introduce myself now no that's really I think it's probably really nice for people to hear and see that from you and I feel like maybe that's why you don't get as much trolling on TikTok because people that need that like you are the person you needed when you were younger yeah do you know what I say this all time

when I'm in meetings with with Hannah or whatever and I always say like I am the creator that I wanted when I was younger like I just wanted like just someone who was just like just so like chill about it wasn't like making me feel like I was watching it and going, oh, like I'm abnormal. So I need to watch this to make myself feel normal. It was someone going, babe, it's normal.

Like, don't even stress about it. Like, you don't even need to deep it. People go, how do I come out? I'm like, you don't need to come out. Do straight people come out? Do straight people go, oh, hi, I'm straight, mum. No, straight people don't come out.

So you don't need to come out. If you don't want to, it's your journey. You don't need to say, like put pressure on yourself to do that because you don't need to do it. Why do you need to do it? Because you need to let society know that you're gay. Like you don't need to do that.

It's really nice that you've like, kind of like solidified that for me because I wrote an article. I was an agony aunt during Pride Month and someone said that they were unsure about their sexuality but how do they tell someone

without so somebody of an opposite gender asked them out and they weren't sure how to tell them they're not really interested in that gender

and I was like but you don't know that person that justification you can just say look I prefer us as friends yeah it's literally I think especially in this day and age things are getting very like not nitpicky but they're

getting it's getting very like to a point where I feel like sometimes where we're trying to make something so normal by making it so normal you're making it so normal, you're making it abnormal. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Whereas it should be normal for a gay man or a gay woman or a bisexual or lesbian, you know what I mean? It should be normal for them

just to not even have to think about that. And I think when you get into that mindset, I think it's a lot healthier to be in that mindset than to think that you're abnormal and that you have to try and make your who you are normal do you know what i mean by going i have to come out because i'm gay but you don't you're a person yeah who just happens to be sexually attracted to the same gender as

yourself like it's really not that deep yeah and i think people do deep it and that is because of society society have put that on them yeah i think it's the same, like going on that same subject of being nitpicky, you know, off camera, we briefly had a conversation about the term queer. Yeah. And I said the word queer on social media when discussing the LGBTQ plus community. And someone called me homophobic.

Oh, Christ. And I asked them what they thought the cue meant and they didn't have a response. But it's like, you know, when you... Do you feel like you have to be careful with language because then people will start nitpicking at you? I guess if you're openly gay, probably not so much. I don't ever feel like that with terms of like,

in terms of gay things, because honey, it's my word. I can't ever feel like that with terms of like in terms of gay things because honey it's my word. I can say it hun. Yeah. You know what I mean? I can say it so you can't come for me but likewise if someone was to use that word if a straight person was to use the word queer I wouldn't be offended if they were using that word if it was in the right context. Yeah. If someone I was walking along the street and they went, oh, you're a little queer,

I would think, well, you're being homophobic and now you're using a word that isn't actually homophobic to try and insult me. When really it's the word queer generally just, it just points out

who's in the LGBT. It's a lesbian person, it's a trans person, it's a gay person. It's anyone. Yeah, exactly. Everyone in the room was briefly discussing about how people in the community are reclaiming the word we are.

As we should. It's like when I was talking to Callie about the word sluzzer and about how you use the word yourself to stop other people using it as an insult to you. Yes, yes. And I think that's what we've done.

I think that's what we've done. I think there's other words, homophobic words as well, that we use as well, like just to like talk to each other just because we're taking the piss out of people that like to take the piss out of us. Yeah, and I think one thing that I found really interesting is I actually didn't know what the A meant in the...

Yeah, did you not? No. Ally, yeah. Ally. What was the other one? It was... Asexual, that's the one, yeah. See, I thought it was asexual.

Yeah, but there's... I didn't realise that... You know how, like, it's LGBTQIA, it's actually AA? Okay. There's actually a lot more letters and I think there's numbers now in it as well. There's a lot more numbers after that.

That's just abbreviated. Okay. So yeah, I was actually saying, and which I hope that I can educate some people who are watching as well, that A means ally. So if you're a straight person and you're an ally,

which means, you know, you are accepting of the LGBTQIA, it means you're part of the LGBTQIA. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It's weird because like, you know, during Pride Month, I got a lot of stick for being like,

what about heterosexual people? We don't have a month. And I was like, you also... Oh, Christ the Lord. I hate it when that conversation comes up. Like, what is wrong with you? I was like, when you have the same hardships as gay people, let me know. Yeah, it's literally their privilege.

You know what I mean? That's such a straight person privilege. That is the thing. Where's my pride? Or honey, were you suppressed? Were you killed? Was it illegal to love who you love? No, no, no, it wasn't.

And also, pride isn't about just gay people, it's about equality. So if you believe in equality, you're celebrating inequality. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's not just about gay, lesbian, it's about genuine equality. Yeah, because like, you see stuff all the time. Like, I think somewhere in London, I've walked past, it had lights and a tree that said love is love. It doesn't say gay love is love. Yeah. It just says love is love. And that's it. It's as simple as that really, isn't it?

I think it's the same thing about, you know, sexism and racism and homophobia and transphobia. It is genuinely, we're all humans. Yeah.

We're literally all humans but we're all fighting for human rights and it doesn't make sense. Like, we're literally all exactly the same. We're humans. We're the same species but we're all fighting for human rights and it doesn't make sense like we're literally all exactly the same but humans we're the same species but we're all fighting against each other because what we look different or yeah we don't have the same lifestyle do you know what i mean like it's like jesus christ it doesn't make sense i tweeted that actually we're all humans

fighting for human rights it doesn't make sense we all still need to shit at the end of the day do you know what i mean that's a very humbling experience like do you know what i mean it happens we all do the same stuff so it's just like i don't understand like i think the world's been made so complicated and by all these stupid labels i'm really appreciating the the gun fingers it's the like this is this i really want nails like acrylic nails so i can do the gum fingers and i put the middle finger i was gonna say like this is his like chance to prove that he's not tory i'm not tory you i was just like have you ever played rugby that was like the first question i will not play rugby i'll tell you that free so if that can take me off the tory list i

will not play rugby as i said i did p with the. So if that can take me off the Tory list, I will not play rugby. As I said, I did PE with the girls. I did netball. Okay. Yeah, I was actually on the netball team for school. Well, I like the first thing that you came for was horse riding. Yeah, I have had horses my whole life. Yes, I know. I know. I know. But I'm not a Tory. I've literally been sat here like praising gay people here. Okay, I am not a Tory. Yeah, that's very true. I think I'm not a Tory. I've literally been sat here, like, praising gay people here, okay? I am not a Tory. Yeah, that's very true. So I think I'm off the hook.

It's... I mean, I was like, do we really want to go into the whole politics of being gay? I mean, you can, but I don't know how much I know about politics, if I'm honest. I kind of like...

It kind of annoys me. I know you do, though, don't you? Did you used to be a private... No? Oh, private secretary? Yeah, did you? Some kind yeah. That was political.

How fucking weird are you looking at my LinkedIn or something? No I just watched on Love Island love.

Oh I'm sorry. Also Hannah thinks you're going to be an MP one day by the way. Hannah? Yeah.

Oh I thought you were did you not watch my interview with Nigel Farage? No I didn't fake fan sorry.

Like no so there was like obviously there was a lot of conversation about conversion therapy. Nigel Farage? No, I didn't. Fake fans, sorry. Like, no, so there was like, obviously there was a lot of conversation about conversion therapy. Oh my God. And it was banned for gay people,

but not for the trans community. Awful. I think it's really, I think it's just like, if you're not going to give it to, if you're going to give it to gay people, why are you not giving it

to trans people? Surely, if you're giving it to gay people, it's you not giving it to trans people? Surely if you're giving it to gay people, it's the same principle as you would give it to a trans person. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It is the same principle, isn't it? Because it's like basically telling someone they're not who they say they are. Yeah, and the same, right, well, we're gay

people now, we're gonna not try and force you not to be who you are, but trans people, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll let that happen. It's the same. It's not, it's like you're contradicting yourself in that. I think a lot of politics in terms of those things contradict themselves a lot.

And it really annoys me. I was really shocked about the contraceptive aversion therapy thing. I saw that and I was really unaware that it was still going on. So was I actually. Until recently, I was was very very surprised. I mean it's only been legal to get married like recently as well as a gay person. When was that? I don't remember. Is it like 10 years ago now or something? Yeah it's not very long. No literally like in my lifetime and yours. It's weird because like when we

say love is love the whole purpose of marriage is that you're, well, monogamous to one person for the rest of your life. And that shouldn't matter what the genitalia of the person it has. Yeah. As to whether you make that commitment or not. No, and the thing is, is that that's another thing that factors in with like homophobia is religion as well. A lot of like homophobia does come from religion.

And personally, for me, I respect every religion there is there. I don't mind what you believe in. I don't mind what you do that you believe in, basically. But homophobia is homophobia. I don't care what religion, what race, what gender. If you're homophobic, you're homophobic. And, you know, I think that... Hi, I'm Richard Karn, and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket Hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here,

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from pocket hose message and data rates may apply no purchase required terms apply available at pocket hose.com slash terms. A lot of gay people are religious as well. And I think they find that very difficult to deal with in religion. But I think a lot of it does come from that. I mean, I was actually christened as a Christian. I went to a Church of England school and whatever. Never was I taught that gay people are wrong.

Never ever heard that either. So I'm not a Christian though. At all. But I did go to church and and stuff and I never saw that and stuff so like I just I feel like sometimes it's used as a bit as an excuse yeah if I'm honest that's that's I mean that is interesting because I've never like I have religious family and I've never like it's never really crossed my mind no because you know

what you do in your spare time doesn't impact my life so why should I make it my problem I actually was at London Pride

this year and I made a video that went really viral on TikTok because this man was walking around with a sign

like a big man side sign like wrapped around his neck saying Jesus is coming you're all going to hell and it was walking around with a sign, like a big man-side sign, like wrapped around his neck, saying, Jesus is coming. You're all going to hell. And it was going around with a big microphone. So I got my phone in my pink crop top. What a vibe, love that.

And I went in front of him and I went, bring it, baby. And I just thought, do you know what? I've seen that TikTok. And I was like, bring it, honey. Like, come on. Jesus is coming. Like, where is he?

Like, where is he he has he come for us because the queer community don't like cold anyway do you know what I mean so it's things like that where it's just like

come on and I think that it's actually they're actually letting themselves down a bit because I feel like that like I said

I've never actually experienced a Christian or actually any homophobic or from a religious person but I know it's out there because I know it's taught not to be like that andophobic from a religious person but I know it's out there because I know it's taught not to be like that and there's arguments on the internet and whatever but I've never experienced that I think they're letting their selves down in that sense where it's just like you know you're you're believing what you believe I'm respecting that

respect us as well and now you're letting yourself down because you don't have a leg to stand on now because you're being a bad person now do you know what I mean no definitely down because you don't have a leg to stand on now because you're being a bad person now. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, no, definitely. So like you don't have a leg to stand on in terms of, you know, I'm saying I respect you and your religion and you can do your religion. It's the same principle as you respecting me and who I want to love. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, of course.

I think as well, when earlier, we're was gonna swiftly move topics but um you know um earlier you were naming some gay icons on the internet that have like kind of paved the way for men to be able to freely express themselves through makeup yeah and stuff like that you are mark hill's first male ambassador i know how did that come about? I don't really know if I'm honest. I literally just got a message from my manager and it was like, so do you want to work with Mark Hill?

And I was like, Mark Hill, like, what am I going to do with Mark Hill if I'm on here? But I think I'm like, I'm liking that I'm paving a bit of like a path in like the male influencer community because I think it is kind of harder for that I'm paving a bit of like a path in like the male influencer community. Because I think it is kind of harder for like male influencers to get a bit of work. Yeah. You know, because it's more like fashion and makeup and stuff.

Do you know what I mean? Obviously, like Mark Hill's a hair brand and stuff. And when Hannah told me that I was the first man to work with them, I was like, oh, what am I doing that's like different to like everyone else? You know what I mean but I think um being being the first man and like being the first man on like HLD as well and like being the first man on the podcast I'm uh I'm giving I'm giving men a good name here aren't I really I'm repping them I'm showing you it's we're not all bad I did get asked if I was going to have male guests on the podcast. And if I wasn't, am I not being any better than people who are misogynistic?

Got you. Well, I think that having me on the podcast is kind of the same principle as why you started the podcast. In terms of, you know, you started it because you felt like women had a bit of an inequality against the world. And same with gay people and trans people and lesbian people. So I think it's fitting, my love. I think it's fitting.

It's got the same principle. You really gave me like old grandma vibes. I've got the new vocabulary of my love. I keep saying it. I don't know where it's come from. I'm just looking at you being like, if you're from London, then how has he got that? It's definitely not from where we're from. I don't know where I've got it from. Yeah, maybe Kane and the Iron. Yeah, two other TikTokers. I was going to say, I don't know who they are.

No, I'm really hot, by the way. Are you not hot right now? No, because I've not been drinking. Drinking? Like Asian glow. Do you mean alcohol? Yeah. You've not been drinking. Drinking? I get Asian glow. What do you mean? Alcohol? Yeah. You've not been drinking alcohol? I've been drinking alcohol. I know,

I'm saying I'm not hot because I get Asian glow. Oh, right. Well, lucky you. I'm just getting chewy mess. That's alright. It looks,

I'm not, you'll look fine on the podcast. Okay, I hope so. When you were talking about how um now you are trying to like pave the way for male influencers in this industry how did it actually like come about um so basically i actually posted a video about um slagging off my. That's a good place to start. Well, you know, it was a coping mechanism, really.

Sorry, mum. Sorry, mum. It was, yeah, and I posted a video about my mum and it blew up. I think it got like 500k. And it's a lot of views. I'm not saying it's not a lot of views.

It is a lot of views. It got about 500k and that was my first video that I posted. And I've always been like the funny guy. Do you know what I mean? Like everyone's always laughed at me and I've always been like the funny guy do you know I mean like everyone's always laughed at me and like I've always been told I'm funny and like um my auntie and my cousin Lucy and Immy um I've got a lot of my humor from them like they're hilarious and I a lot came from there so like after I did that my mum's like a complete lunatic like she's actually

balmy my family is like balmy right like it's like if you we should be the kardashians like we should have a show because it's just like ridiculous so i can just start making videos about my like my family and it was just doing really well and like i would just make videos about the arguments that we would have or like and i think people found it very relatable it was all in lockdown so like everyone was kind of like had nothing to do and all i think they all found it relatable and they all spoke to their mom i actually gained quite a large um like middle-aged women following as well from it oh interesting like mothers themselves and I still do like I get like mothers come up to me on the street but oh hello I love you and I'm like oh I didn't realize you're

my demographic but um yeah so I started doing that and then I moved out um into I was still living in Wants to that point I moved out into with my was still living in Wantsage at that point. I moved out with my friend and I wasn't living with my mum anymore. So I lost content. And then my account actually got deleted. Like completely, permanently banned. And I had to restart the whole thing.

I was like, I hit 200K at that point. I've been doing it for like a year. This was like in 2020. And yeah, my whole TikTok account got deleted and I thought that was it. I was like, well, there's my career gone. I wasn't earning any money off it at that time though. Do you know what I mean?

I wasn't monetized. It wasn't really a career path for me. I was kind of just doing it. Like I was just like, because I got views and like the attention kind of thing. So then I started- You really liked attention. No.

So then I started a new TikTok and I kind of just went to film anything I wanted. I didn't have any structure, any niche, nothing. And then built and built and built and built on it. And then I started like self-managing myself. And, you know, HRD was my first ever management and I've been doing it for two and a half years, coming on three.

So I've been managing all my emails emails like all my like brand deals or everything like that for the last year and a half before I signed to HLD um and I was doing all of that and then um which was so hard like I had a full-time job I was a nursery teacher um really yeah and once I was a nursery teacher which I actually really loved I loved doing that especially with like the boys who wanted to wear dresses I was like yes put it on let me paint your nails um but yeah I was like I did that a lot with them and then um so yeah I was managing all my own emails and like I was doing all the business side of that and like you know I'm a business so like my TikTok account is a business in itself and I'm not running my business, which is me.

So I was like kind of running that. I had a full-time job, had to film, had to do this brand deal, had to like negotiate. And we all know what brands are like and we can all say that they're sometimes a pain to work with. No, you're not. I love you. Please pay me. And then when I met my boyfriend, we were going to move in Shoreditch into our friend's flat with her.

And I thought, you know, if I want this to be my career, and people started noticing me in the street at this point, I thought, I can make this a career. And I was starting to earn some money on it. I was like, I can make this actually my full-time job. And I had people like GK and Izzy, and I had friends in like, I can make this actually like my full-time job. And I had people like GK and Izzy and I had friends in the industry that were doing it then as a full-time job. I was actually probably the last one of the TikTok like group to be like, it's my job now. Like it's only been since this year that it's been like my full-time job.

So then I took the plunge and moved to London and been broke. I was broke, broke, broke, broke, broke. I was working this job, working that job. Then I had a really bad mental health spiral at the start of the year. So I ended up like not working and I was just like figuring myself out. And then I got signed to HOD, which had picked me up.

And I would love to do TV, like not like reality TV. I'd love to do TV like not like reality TV I'd love to do like presenting like Alan Carr vibes you know what I mean like Graham Norton have my own TV show like a little chat show like having a chat show

do you know what I mean like having like celebs on because you know when like celebrities go and like an actress will go on to like a chat show and they'll be like so how's the film like what's the film like

I'm like I want to ask the questions like I don't know like who did you shag on set like yeah they're not safe for work do you know what I mean

I want I want the the tea it could be called what's the tea you know it's the chat show it might be up

but yeah that's what I want to do so then been working very closely with our management and they put me on the path to like wanting to do more interviewing and we've been doing me on the path to like

wanting to do more interviewing and we've been doing interviewing on the streets I actually had a really funny one where we went out and we filmed

asking straight people gay slang and seeing if they could guess it it was so much fun wasn't it fun it was so much fun I loved it so much

I've done a few more as well but like it was so much like getting into it I was like what's the top what's the bottom and they were like surely those two

self explanatory some of them didn't know some of them didn't know I was like what's Grindr tell me what is Grindr and then they were like it was a lot of fun

I really enjoyed it I love putting them on the spot making them feel a bit uncomfortable that's why you want to be an interviewer yeah I do I want to be an interviewer. Yeah, I do. I want to ask the questions around there. It's weird that, it's not weird,

but like I couldn't picture you as a nursery teacher. Really? So I was going to ask you like what you did before or what you would be doing if TikTok never existed. I probably would still be working at the nursery. I'm not going to lie. I actually had no idea what I wanted to do before TikTok. But yeah, the nursery, I actually really loved it. It was like,

you know, I got paid to play with Play-Doh all day. Do you know what I mean? Like, it was so much fun. It was so much fun. And they were like your little best friends and they like adored you. It was so cute and I was so gutted to leave. I actually got politely asked to leave. Do I want to know why? I just...

Lockdown lifted. Right. The alcoholic in me came out and I was just... Oh, okay. But also, TikTok was starting to blow up at this time. I was coming to London, you know, I had events in London. I had things to do in London. I was hanging out with some cool people and like it was all new to London. You know, I had events in London. I had things to do in London. I was hanging out with some cool people.

And like, it was all new to me. And like, I'd never really like gone out in London and stuff. And I kind of just fucked it off. I kind of just fucked it off. And I was just like, so sorry. And they were like, at the end of the day, I just kind of was missing days of work. It was so bad.

And they just knew I was out. And they knew about my TikTok. And they knew it was blowing up and stuff. And yeah, it came and she was like, Jack, I think you need to hand in your resignation if you want a reference from us. And I was like, oh, I was like, okay, well, I was going to do it anyway. So, and I literally, no joke, this is actually so, so iconic of me, actually, if I do say so myself, I literally quit my job that day and packed my shit and left that day to London.

Literally packed my shit and just moved straight to London. And I literally, on the way on the train, and I got emailing loads of different jobs to get, and I got five job interviews before I got to London.

Fly me. You work quick. But do you feel like maybe that gave you a kick up the bum to actually pursue what you wanted to pursue? I feel like, you know,

you watch like things like Lady Gaga moved to like LA with $6 in her bank account. And like now, you know, she's like this worldwide famous person. I think I was like,

I've got to go through the struggle. If I want my dreams to come true, like I don't want my career just to stop at TikTok. I don't want to be like an influence for the rest of my life. I want to use it as a tool

to become like a bloody superstar. Fucking take over the over the world you know what I mean wear meat dresses on the red carpet yeah do you know what I mean it's like obviously um well I don't know how comfortable you're gonna feel talking about it but you know earlier when you were talking about when you moved to London and you had like that bit of a mental health struggle when you were trying to like, you know, manage your dream, but also be grown up and deal with like responsibilities and stuff.

It was hard. It was a lot of hard. Luckily, I had an amazing boyfriend that helped me and it was a very new relationship. I literally, we moved in together after two months of being together. It was really quick. My commitment issues say issue say no well in the gay world we've been together what just over a year now that is like 10 years you've got a dog and a cat so we're like solid now like in the gay

world like it doesn't happen but no yeah I've always actually struggled with my mental health I'm quite open about it on my social media as well I think it's really good to like just take it people to say they can relate and feel like they're you know not going through it on their own but like I struggle a lot with anxiety I've got a lot of past trauma from my childhood that like I went through a lot of stuff in my teenage years like with my stepdads and stuff which I'm now as an adult reflecting on it and realizing where those triggers are coming from. And like, you know, I have gone to therapy here and there, nothing crazy though. Like, and Daniel, my boyfriend has literally been my therapist because I've never, I've literally been the most mentally strong ever. I'm standing on my own two feet. Like I can like rationalize

a lot better now. But like before, when I was going through that, it was the worst time, like mentally I've ever, ever, ever, ever, ever felt. I didn't want to be here anymore. And I've never felt like that ever. Like it was a scary thought to me. And I was scaring myself. I wasn't going to do anything stupid. But like I was scaring myself because I was thinking I'll just be better off.

I just couldn't be like if I don't wake up tomorrow. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I think it was finally that I was in a place where I felt like I could heal. And I just moved in with my boyfriend and his parents. And it wasn't a toxic environment. And I wasn't surrounded by, you know, where I grew up and all the bad memories and stuff like that. And I think I was in a place where I could finally just like breathe and like be fine and be like not worry. And like, I think it was like a snowball,

like it was just all coming out the woodwork. It's like, I've had to always suppress it and just get on with it. But now like I was in an environment where I could just be like, do you know what I mean? So it was just all coming out. It was a lot. It was a lot. It was all coming out. Like I was crying over nothing. I couldn't hold a job down. I was having mental breakdowns five times a day. I slept all day. I didn't get out of bed. I didn't shower.

It was awful. I was going to say it sounds like me on my period, but not all of it. But it's, no, I can imagine it's really hard. And obviously, knowing what the area was like that you grew up in and how it is a small town, everyone knows everything about you. And I feel like I did the same as you and moved to a city. The ability to start fresh when no one knows anything about you.

You don't feel like you have to pretend to be something you're not to get validation from other people 100 100 that's something i've so learned it's like like giving myself my own validation and not seeking for others i think i've done that my whole life and i think that has gone down to me being gay and being bullied and you know i as i said i went i had an abusive childhood with my stepdads and stuff which obviously reflection on that was a lot to deal with as an adult and reflect back on. And my social media don't even know about that, actually.

I've only just mentioned on here, exclusive. But yeah. That's a trauma response right there. That is actually a trauma response. Being funny is a trauma response. But yeah, no, I went through a lot of abusive behavior with my stepdads, two of them actually, growing up and there was a massive divorce

and it was so messy and me and my mum didn't get on. And we and her had a very volatile relationship. We're really good now because I don't live with her. But no, we're really good now. We've worked a lot together. So we're really good now. And I finally feel like I'm in a place where I'm like my career is going really well.'ve gotten a really good boyfriend like a long-time relationship

I've got a great relationship with my mum like it was it was I feel like I'm living in London which I've always wanted to do I feel like um you know people from where I'm from Wantage and from Dick I'm sure that you feel the same I feel like they look at us and I feel like yeah I've made it you know I mean I'm doing it like and I always felt like I feel like they look at us and I feel like, yeah, I've made it. Do you know what I mean? I'm doing it. And I always felt like a big fish in a small pond and I felt like I've actually done myself proud by getting out of that small pond

and going for my dreams, which I think a lot of people are scared to do. It is. I think when it's a small, it's like that whole small town mentality. Yeah. Sometimes it's really difficult to leave the comfort of what you've always known

um i've you know i completely relate to everything you've just said about feeling like a big fish in a small pond um so obviously for you i'm going to tweak the final question um so obviously based on everything you've said, what would you say to people that question your future or current success or who you are as a person, either in your past or in the future, based on your sexuality? I would say that sexuality is not a barrier for anything. I would say that I feel like

you would be very small-minded to think that way and I think it's quite upset it's quite sad for you that's like a you problem that you would think like that that your mind is so narrow and that I think if you opened up your mind a bit more that you would realize that you could get a lot more from life. I agree. What would you say to a bully? I would say, fuck you. Fuck you, mate. Look at me.

No, I would say, hope you're well. Hope you figured out what was going on in your brain. Sounds like a really weird Facebook message. Live a long, long happy good life love you hun amazing no honestly thank you so much

for being a guest on my podcast first man for everything it is and it was my first ever podcast I've never done a podcast before scary well you smashed it

thank you very much and normally people get scared when they're on my podcast so well I felt very comfortable you're a good host oh thanks throw you in at the deep end but yeah no thank you so much for And normally people get scared when they're on my podcast. Well, I felt very comfortable. You're a good host. Oh, thanks. Thank you so much for being a guest. Thank you. Can't wait to see what we get up to. Thank you. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing

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Indeed.com slash P-O-D-K-A-T-Z 13. Just go to Indeed.com slash P-O-D-K-A-T-Z 13 right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Hi, I'm Richard Karn, and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket Hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here, and it's a total game changer. Old-fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's Pocket Pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust-proof anti-burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus, your super light and ultra-durable pocket hose copperhead

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