Girls Know Nothing - S1 Ep13: Keisha East founder and CEO of No Knot Co, textured Hair, the struggles of identity and founding a business in lockdown

Episode Date: October 27, 2022

Welcome back to Girls Know Nothing! 🧡  GKN is a female focused podcast hosted by  Girls Know Nothing's thirteenth guest is the Founder and CEO of No Knot Co, Keshia East! No Knot Co is a vegan and sustainable hair tool brand dedicated to creating tools for textured, afro and kinked hair.  Growing up mixed race can sometimes be challenging as you don't often know where you belong, causing an identity crisis. For Keshia, that was no different! Especially when it came to hair!  But she took her own experience and in lockdown turned it into a project which is now one of the biggest hair tool brands on the market, distributed on the likes of BeautyBay and Sainsburys!  New episodes of Girls Know Nothing 🧡 will be released every Thursday, and will also be available on Spotify, Apple podcasts and wherever you get your podcast fixes!  GKN Social Channels:  Https://linktr.ee/girlsknownothing  Instagram: @girlsknownothingpod  TikTok: @girlsknownothing

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so you can reach the people you want faster. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. Don't wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get-K-A-T-Z 13. Just go to Indeed.com slash P-O-D-K-A-T-Z 13 right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Welcome back to another episode of girls know nothing i have been super excited to have this guest in the studio for a long time and if you didn't recognize her it is kesha east hello why do i feel like i got your surname wrong then i paused and was like shit did i say her name wrong east yes um but yeah if you want to give yourself a brief introduction for people that don't know who you are.

Okay. My name is Kesha East, as she said. I'm a celebrity makeup artist, beauty influencer, and founder of No Not Co, which is a hair brand that specializes in tools for wavy, curly, and coily hair types. Massive self-plugged us. Yeah. So like, you know, one of the, obviously, a lot of the conversation I wanted to have with you is about your brand and how you started it and found it. But I'm really interested in to know Kesha,

young Kesha, like how you got to where you are now. So, you know, obviously I did a lot of research on you. I did Google you. You stalked me. I did stalk you, yeah. Sounds very creepy. But they are good things. They are good things.

And, you know, I think a lot of the things I found were very relatable. You know, when you were talking about growing up mixed race and how confusing it can be. Yes. Because sometimes you don't feel like you belong to either community.

And then you're like, well, actually, where do I sit? So what was that like for you growing up as well, actually, where do I sit? So like, what was that like for you, like growing up as a mixed race woman? You know what is crazy? Because actually my family were really great, to be honest, like both sides were really open and both sides are very close to me and my sister. So we didn't actually feel that kind of strain really growing up. I think the most significant thing was when it came to hair, which is crazy because like my mum was like, what do I do with this hair? This is nothing like mine.

And then my dad was like, what do I do with this hair? This is nothing like mine. So we'd find that like my mum, for example, would just like relax it and do things that were sometimes a bit too harsh. And then my dad would like not put product in it and like comb it and then he'd go like super frizzy. So when it came to hair, yeah, that was a bit of a struggle. I'm not going to lie. But yeah, I didn't really feel like I needed to choose a side or felt out of place anywhere, to be honest. It wasn't until really I started kind of growing up a bit more and, you know, in school and things, people would say, oh, like, you know, what, you know, do you identify more of your white side or your black side? And I, you know, started to find these questions like very, very strange.

Or people just commenting like random things. And yeah, it's weird, isn't it? Because it's like how others see you. Like that was never a complex growing up. But people put their own, I guess, insecurities or complexes on you. And so, yeah, I've had some weird questions. But yeah.

You grew up in a city though, didn't you? Yeah, so I grew up in Walthamstow. Blah, blah, blah. Walthamstow massive. Love Walthamstow. Me and my sister rep it to death, literally. We just love that place. But, yeah, I grew up in Walthamstow.

Very multicultural. But surprisingly, not a lot of mixed race people in my school, actually. Oh, really? Do you feel like being in a city helped you, even though there wasn't that many mixed race people? Definitely. Because even though, obviously obviously I grew up with two sides, it helps to grow up in a community where there's all different races. And yeah, I felt like there's a lot of racial issues or struggles that people have. And I didn't have that being in London.

So yeah, it was great. What was school like for you then being mixed race? If you didn't, if there wasn't that many other people that could identify with how you feel? I mean, a lot of people were mixed. Like I went to a Catholic school and so, you know, everyone kind of like mixed with each other and it was good.

It was a great school. I found that people definitely did hang around in like a lot of racial groups sometimes, which was great for me because I was like moving around in every circle. But yeah, it was fine, you know, it was fine. I honestly feel like when it comes to being like mixed race and having two heritages,

yeah, I think it's more the questions that people ask more than actually like your actual experience on a day-to-day, if that makes sense. So like what kind of questions did you get growing up? Well, like people just asking like, would you say growing up? Well, like, people just asking, like, would you say you're more like your white side or your black side? You know, oh, who do you date? Do you date white guys? Do you date black guys?

You know, and it's like a, I don't know, whether it's like a stigma or if it's a fetish. Like, I don't know what it is, but it's like the strangest questions, like, that you think, would you ask anyone that wasn't mixed race this question? I don't know. I just feel like if you've grown up with two parents that are two different races like you're gonna be a bit of both and they're gonna both have an impression on you so yeah I mean I guess what's normal for me might be I guess a bit more abnormal for others I guess maybe yeah because I feel like like in my experience things that are very like stereotypical

they'll be like oh you don't have that or you don't do that and I was like yeah but you have to remember that I am mixed so I grew up yes two different yes yes exactly like oh like for example my mom is from West Africa Ghana and like people were like oh can you make gel off or can you speak tree and I'll be like yeah yeah I can and then they'll be like oh yeah yeah but that's because your mom's like black do you know I mean it's like because my mom's black like that's why I've got more of that culture I was like I don't I don't know I think it's weird like you get a lot of strange comments I think and I don't think people mean it offensively and I don't take them offensively but I just think they're yeah some strange comments I would say

I think it's down to your like individual preference though isn't it yeah yeah because my brother and I have both have the same parents, but I feel like he's very European, whereas I'm very Asian. Yes. But that's just naturally like how our habits. Yes. And what you like, are you interested in or whatever. Yeah.

I think it's a food thing, if I'm honest. Really? I'm really into Asian food. Are you? Spicy food. My brother, not so much. Oh my God, I love spicy food. So I feel like that's just kind of like the thing,

but it's not like, you know, he still is mixed race. Yeah, yeah. I mean, do you know what? I don't know. I would have to like have my friends judge me on this one, but I would say that I'm pretty much

bang in the middle of the spectrum. Like I could literally have a pie and mash, two pie, two mash and gravy on a Friday. And then on a Sunday, I'll be eating like a mutawal with my hands, like peanut soup. So literally, I'm like, yeah, I'm in the middle. I love both cultures.

I celebrate both. And I'm really, I feel lucky to have both really. I always feel like, I feel like maybe this is not something you've necessarily experienced if you grew up in a very multicultural school. But, you know, people that I knew that grew up in not so diverse areas also had issues of people going to touch their hair oh yeah I mean yeah this is this is a big big big thing in like just curly hair community generally um but yeah it's a it's a big big thing I What I will say is when I was growing up, because I had a lack of products,

which I'm sure we'll discuss, I didn't actually wear my hair curly for a lot of my childhood, to be honest. As I said, my mum relaxed my hair when I was growing up. And then when I started doing my own hair, I was just straightening it. I remember me and my sister would actually, I'm so embarrassed,

but me and my sister would straighten our hair'm so embarrassed, but me and my sister would straighten our hair on ironing boards with an iron. We've all been there. I've been there. I'm not going to lie to you. We didn't have GHGs at the time. The budget wasn't there. Yeah, the budget was not there. So we didn't have GHGs at the time. We used to iron our hair and we'd literally take it in turns. Um, which is crazy to think about now. But so yeah, my hair was straight most of the time. So people wouldn't really touch my hair was straight most of the time. So people wouldn't really touch my hair, to be honest. And then it wasn't until maybe I was about 22, 23

that I started actually wearing it curly. So yeah, I haven't had much of that. I'm not going to lie. I haven't had many people ask and I feel like people are a lot more woke now. So it doesn't really happen. Yeah. So I haven't experienced it but I can yeah it's annoying

I can see why that's annoying so like moving on to how you became a celebrity makeup artist to be fair like when you said you're a makeup artist I was like that explains why your makeup looks immaculate um so like thank you um when I did google I did see a picture of you at university actually at your graduation yeah what blonde hair images around there oh my god what image is this is this from the website I think it's you and your sister with your little graduation cap on it's very cute picture but um you know like throwback going yeah going to university like I don't think I found what you studied though that was one thing I couldn't find I studied history oh I did

not expect that okay so like what kind of interested you in studying history oh my god you know what every time I drop that h-bomb I did not expect that yeah you know what I loved history I just loved it you know what I love studying about where we've been where we are I love politics you know I have a lot of interests that, you know, you may not think. But yeah, I studied history because it was the subject that I loved the most at school. I had no idea what I wanted to do, to be honest. When I finished college, I was like, what do I do now?

And everyone at the time was just going to uni. So I was like, okay, I'll just go to uni as well. So I studied history and it wasn't just wars and stuff, which people think that history is like just old people and wars. And it's like so misunderstood. I studied really fun things like art and architecture

and beauty trends throughout the years. So it was a really fun degree, to be honest. That's why I did history. And then when I left university, I was just like, what the hell am I going to do? And I was working at Benefit at the time while I was at uni.

Oh, I've been there. I loved Benefit. I don't know what your experience was, but like, okay. I loved it. I loved, I just loved beauty. So for me, just working with makeup and in the beauty hall at Debenhams, I just loved it.

I loved working there. And so, yeah, when I finished uni, I was like, what do I do? and in the beauty hall at Debenhams. I just loved it. I loved working there. And so, yeah, when I finished uni, I was like, what do I do? And yeah, I went to Mac basically. And that's where it kind of grew from there, I guess. I was in denial, definitely. People would always say,

oh, you make up artists can do my makeup. And I was like, no, no, no. I've studied history at university. I'm going to do a graduate job. And I just like wanted to go into this corporate like corporate world I think I don't know whether that was society's impression on me or whatever and then eventually um I just decided you know what I want is your makeup and it kind of went from there do you feel like maybe you were thinking that you wanted to do a graduate job because I find that women that are very intelligent but also very fashionable or like good looking that they're all automatically assumed they're going to do like

fashion and makeup so you feel like you have to prove that you are also smart I think I think I didn't want to waste my degree well because I've got all this student loan debt and I'm like I need to be paying that off and I didn't want to like waste it and um I don't know I just felt like all the girls I was working with like that was their passion and they've always wanted to do makeup and so many of them also had gone to university and studied makeup so I don't know whether I felt like a bit of a phony as well to be honest like saying oh I'm a makeup artist just because I worked at MAC you know um I think that was part of it and also yeah I loved history you know I thought I wanted to be an art curator you know. I think that was part of it. And also, yeah, I loved history.

I thought I wanted to be an art curator, you know, in a gallery or something. So yeah, that was kind of like my dream. But I quickly realised that like the nine to five, you know, wasn't really for me, to be honest. And that's when I pursued makeup. So how did like becoming a celebrity makeup artist, I feel like is a completely different ballgame to like being a makeup artist. Yeah, definitely. So how did like becoming a celebrity makeup artist, I feel like is a completely different ballgame to like being a makeup artist. Yeah, definitely. So how did that come about? Okay, so when I decided that I wanted to be a makeup artist,

I was like, right, I'm going to do my, you know, give my all, I'm going to go to all these shoots, I'm going to do loads of free jobs and whatever. And I was working with a lot of different people and I did this shoot with this woman who was amazing, Michelle, shout out Michelle, Sultan. And she was like, she randomly called me one day and I was at a spa with my friend.

And she was like, hi, can you come and do Alicia Dixon's makeup? I know it's super last minute, but can you come and do it? And I was like, literally in my towel, just about to get a massage. And I was like, just give me an hour. And I literally like hung up, ran home, got my suitcase, ran to do her makeup. And I was like just give me an hour and I literally like hung up ran home got my suitcase ran to do her makeup and I was like hell yeah and that's where it literally began was uh

very early on in my makeup career to be honest I think it was due to like good networking beforehand meeting people doing loads of free shoots and then when the opportunity came I was like yeah and then I worked for that whole summer and the opportunity came, I was like, yeah. And then I worked with her that whole summer and it was amazing. And she was amazing. So yeah, that was pretty great. I feel like with makeup artists, it's like this thing that people don't,

like everyone just thinks that, you know, you don't really know much. You don't really work very hard because, you know, it's just makeup. But actually every makeup artist I've ever seen does so much like free work to like get themselves out there. And makeup is expensive

yeah it's not a cheap career to start 100% and you know what it's not easy it's not easy I think that there are a lot of jobs that are glamorized because people think oh they look really fun or it looks really cool and it is fun and it is cool but it's a lot of work you know and there's a lot of traveling involved and you know when I was at my peak, like not doing really other things, that was like my main focus and my main career, let's say. I was traveling loads. And at first I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. This is so exciting. And then it was like, you know, I haven't been home for like, you know, two weeks and, you know, there was no routine to my life. And I think it was great for that time, but I felt like I don't know if I would be able to sustain it. Like moving forward, I thought maybe in the future,

I'd like to have children, things like that. And I thought, how would I, you know, cope being away from them for long periods of time? So yes, it's hard work, but it's a lot of fun. And you get to meet amazing people. So is that why you decided to start moving more into like the influencing kind of space? Or did that just happen like hand in hand

with being a makeup artist? Yeah, I think like I was working with like a lot of cool people and they were like sharing my posts and things like that. And so naturally and like organically, I should say, like my followers grew on Instagram. And then I just remember this. I think it was my first job was like a teeth whitening company or something. I think they just emailed me and they were like... Old school influencing. Yeah, literally. And they were like, I don't even remember the name, like star something, I don't know.

And they were like, hey, can you do this post on Instagram? And we'll pay you. And I was like, what? Like, what is this? And then, yeah, I did it. And I was like, oh my God, this is a thing? You can hustle this way? So I started going into that.

So that wasn't necessarily a planned thing, but I loved it and I love it. So yeah, it worked out really well. I feel like people that do influence in it, it was never, I feel like most of the time it's never on purpose. It's always by accident. Yeah, I know.

I think a lot of people is by accident and a lot of people is on purpose too. Yeah, that's true. Especially now, like it is a job now. And it's a, well, I'd like to think it's a respectable job. It depends who you are. Yeah, I guess it depends who you are. I think it's a respectable job.

And so, and you know, a lot of hard work goes into it. So, you know, naturally I can see why people want to go into it as a profession. But I know a lot of people who got into it quite a long time ago. And it just happened organically because it wasn't as much of a big business as it is now. I feel like it's also one of those jobs

that's very hyper-glamorized. Yes. Everyone thinks pretty pictures and you're always on holiday. Yes. No one tells you about the times your manager phones you in the shower at 6am because you haven't done your work.

Or when you're editing a video for like seven hours. And you delete it by accident. Yeah, or you post the wrong thing and you have to post it all over again. Yeah. It's not as glamorous as people think it is. It's for work. But kind of going on from being a makeup artist and an influencer

to now owning, well, um owning no knots co which i know is like your pride and joy and your yes my baby yeah and um i really enjoy watching your hair videos on um like your reels on instagram yes um and i did stalk your linkedin as well so i'm really sorry if you got a notification from that i thought i turned it off. So how did you kind of go into like deciding you wanted to start a brand? You know what? I honestly have wanted to have my own like business legacy, whatever you want to call it for a very, very long time. I remember when I finished uni, I actually went on a trip to South Africa. Someone I knew at the time was going out there for like six months and was like, Hey, do you want to come? And I was like, yeah. And I went out there and I remember meeting

this guy at our apartment and he was like literally sitting by the pool, facing like table mountain, like swimming pool, everything. And he was like, oh, I'm just working, like don't mind me. And I was like, working? And I was like, what do you do? And he was like, oh, I own I own my own business and he was like I live in South Africa for six months of the year and for the other six months I live in LA and I was like what like this is somebody's life and ever since I met this guy like I literally have never been able to get that out of my head and I was like one day I need to be like by a pool doing work facing Table Mountain and saying this is my life kind of thing it was I just found it so inspirational so it's always been something that I've always wanted. But I think that a lot of people will agree,

it has to be the right time. You know, you have to have the right money. You have to have the right idea. And I just feel like at so many points in my life, I might've had an idea, but didn't have the money or had the money, didn't have the time. And then I guess with no not co all the stars aligned let's say we're at the right time and it just came together really so yeah

it's been something I've wanted to do for a long time and luckily it happened I guess it was probably because obviously there was a massive like gap in the market for yes products or like tools for people with like textured curly yes um for her hair and you know haven't experienced it yourself growing up honestly like I couldn't believe like honestly like I had to double check like three times when I was google searching like hair tools for curly hair and I was like no surely like this brush exists or things like this exist and I just couldn't find anything to be honest and I And I feel like, especially in 2020, we were all locked up, you know,

and we were a lot more conscious about who we were buying from, what? What did I just say? Who we were buying from and where we were buying our products. And I just remember thinking, like, I'd love to find a brand of someone that looks like me or has curly hair or whatever,

that knows the struggle, that's like made a hairbrush for me. And I couldn't find it and I was like what I saw a brand in America and there was this amazing woman I can't recall her name now and she'd started her own hair tools company and I was like oh I'll just order it and I couldn't order it to the UK because she was from America and then yeah I was like well I'll just start my own I'll just wake up one day and be like I'm gonna start my own hair tool company to be fair no that's really like um I do think that is really amazing um I think you know I did put on Instagram like Q&A boxes and I think a lot of people are really interested in like you know the challenges and successes of starting your own brand yeah um I, like, it's safe to assume when someone starts their own company, there's a lot more challenges than there are successes, especially in the beginning.

Yeah, 100%. You know what? I found that a lot of things that I thought would be difficult actually were very easy. And a lot of things that I thought would be easy were very difficult. So, you know what? I always say, if anyone thinks that they want to start a business or that's their dream or start anything really, that they should just go for it. Because to be honest, there are a lot of things that I

thought I wouldn't be able to do that I have been able to do. And I think it's just such an unexpected procedure. Like you just don't know what's going to happen day to day. And so it's kind of like, you just got to start, literally. And then everything else just goes from there. What did you think was going to be the biggest challenge? Oh, that is a good question. I mean, I would combine a few things, like growing the social media page from zero,

I thought was going to be a big, big challenge. Getting into retailers, for example, I thought was going to be a huge challenge. And I think just general, like day to day, I was like going to be a huge challenge. And I think just general like day to day, I was like, how do you do this kind of thing? Like there's no guide really of how to start your own business. Sure, there's a lot of YouTube videos out there, which is great, by the way. But you always find a challenge that is, you know, you can't find the answer anywhere and you just have to figure out yourself. So those things I thought would be like the main challenges because when I started the brand, I didn't want, I didn't want people to know that

it was mine. I wanted it to be like organic. I just wanted it to grow naturally. And I wanted to test that the product actually worked and that people wanted it. And so I thought if I like announced this thing, I was like, Hey guys, this is my company that, you know, people would support it naturally, which I would be really grateful for, but I just wanted it to kind of stand on its own, if that makes sense. Um, So yeah, I was literally growing it from scratch, like zero to, you know, whatever. Now looking back on it, do you feel like that was the right decision? Yeah, actually, you know what, looking back, I definitely think it was the right decision for multiple reasons. I think one of them being that it built like such a community because there

wasn't like one face behind it. And this whole curl community that I didn't even like know actually existed at that time, just erupted out of nowhere. And, you know, so many people supporting the brand and, and it was just like, you go no not curl, like I just stand there and be like, this isn't me, you know, it wasn't about me know it wasn't about me it wasn't about you know what I can do or whatever it was just it was all about the brand at that time

and so yeah I was so happy that it grew on its own two feet and I thought you know what this has actually got legs because people just like it

they don't even know who's made this company and they're really supporting it so I think it yeah I think it was the right decision now a word from our sponsor BetterHelp

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online. All you have to do is fill out a brief survey and get matched to the therapist. You are free to change therapists at any time. When you want to be a better problem solver, therapy can get you there. Visit betterhelp.com slash GKN for 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com forward slash GKN. So one of your successes is getting No Not To Go On To Beauty Bay. Yes. And when I was searching for it, actually, that was like the first thing that came up, like the massive Beauty Bay section. How did that come about?

Like, you know, that's a massive step for a brand. You know what? It literally was a full circle moment with Beauty Bay because I worked with Beauty Bay as an ambassador, maybe like four or five years ago. And I was just doing like their YouTube videos and things like that and I met with um the CEOs because that's what I really love about Beauty Bay they like the CEOs work with the company every day so they're really like hands-on yeah they're really hands-on and deal with the day-to-day of the company and

this guy Aaron uh four years later, you know, after I've been an ambassador, just emailed me randomly and was like, hey, long time no speak. Like, can I call you kind of thing? And I was like, what's going on here, Aaron? And then, yeah, can you call me? Yeah, and then he was just like, we have had,

I can't even remember how many, something like 20,000 or something searches for No Not Co on our brand. And I was like, oh my God. And he was like, yeah, like we need to get this brand in here. And I was like, okay, let's make it happen. And then it literally happened. And the next month it was on their website. So 20,000. Yeah. He was like, there were 20,000 searches. And I was like, who, what is this brand? And then so he Googled it and he was like, no, like I know this girl. So obviously he called me

and yeah, I was literally like, what? Yeah, crazy. So it was like a full circle moment of like working with Beauty Bay and then having the product on there was just like crazy.

That is actually insane. It's either one person who's desperate for that brush or there is a lot of people. It was actually me. I searched it 20,000 times. Now I know that's how you did it. I'm going to sit there on Beauty Bay

and just start looking up random stuff. It's so funny. But also another one of your big successes is that No Nots Co. is going to come out into Sainsbury's. Sainsbury's. We're going into over 140 stores. Oh my God.

In the UK. Yeah. So that's pretty crazy. Hopefully one of them is going to be mine yeah I hope where do you live well actually

can we yeah no no I'll tell you later don't get people stalking you out here but yeah hopefully hopefully it will was that

because you didn't have like the contact well I'm assuming you didn't have the contacts with Sainsbury's was that harder to get it into a physical store

I must admit that with Sainsbury's yeah that was pretty hard it's been it was a challenge store? I must admit that with Sainsbury's, yeah, that was pretty hard. It's been, it was a challenge, I'm not going to lie, because it's like the scale that Sainsbury's are on is just insane.

Like they have like depots, they have regulations and health and safety measures when like, you know, delivering stock and things like that. And I'd actually not experienced that before because with Beauty Bay, they're an online retailer.

So their procedures are a little different. And, you know, every retailer has different systems and every retailer has different setups and the way you invoice and the way you send their products and they want it sent in specific ways. So it's literally like every time

you start with a new retailer, it's like you're starting again, basically. You have to learn everything from scratch. And with Sainsbury's, they are pretty amazing and they're really hands-on with the brands that they take on. So I've had to like learn a lot basically to get in there. So it's been challenging, but like a good challenge. And I was actually talking to them for over a year before it went in their store. So it was a kind of like slow process. And then it's like, go, go, go. And now we're there. So yeah, it's been pretty amazing, actually.

Was there ever a time in that year where you were like, oh, it's not going to happen? No, actually. No, I never thought it wasn't going to happen. I don't know why. I was just being really optimistic about it. But I was was like putting it in the back of my of my mind if that makes sense like I wasn't you know hounding them or anything I was just like right okay you know when it comes to like going into a store although again it looks like glamorous from the outside and things like that like you have to be ready as a as a as a business like you know we're talking about like scaling up so much you have to be able to afford the stock even before you get, you know, your money back. And, you know, there's a lot of procedures that go into it. So I was like, ready and very patient at the same time, because I was like, okay,

the longer it takes, the more like experience I'm getting. And the, you know, the more, the more experience I'll have to be a good, I guess, retailer for this person. So yeah, it's been fun. Is No Knots Co. just you or do you have help? Oh my God. Well, it's actually, yeah, it's just me, to be honest. It's just me. And then I have like people helping.

I was going to say, I don't know how you still have hair because mine would all fall out. Yeah, I mean, it's falling, it's falling. It is just me, but it's like I've had like help from so many different people like it takes a village they say it takes a village to raise a baby it takes a village to raise a business like I've had my grandma packing boxes I've had my grandma shout out grandma Nana Christy I've had like my mom help with things I've had like my friends do deliveries for me my friend

Paulina at the moment is packing one of my saints while I'm here so like it takes a village like I haven't done it on my own that's for sure but um yeah I haven't I haven't got like a full team yet which is um it's a process it's a process I don't want to like rush into like investment and things like that. And so at the moment, like, we're very self-sustainable, which is great because we're growing.

And yeah, I think ownership's important and I don't want to make, like, the wrong decision too soon. Yeah. So yeah, we're growing and yeah, hopefully I'll have some staff members soon.

Anyone's out there who needs a job. Do you want to apply? Let me know. That's like, do you feel like the support system is one of the reasons why no not co's managed to be so successful yeah i think you know what i think with with any business

or any venture or anything you're doing like having the right people around you i think is really important and if you have the wrong people around you it's a detrimental so i think yeah having a lot of support from your friends and your family, it's so key because there are so many sacrifices that you have to make. It's not just about, oh, my friend, can you help me, you know, with this package or whatever. It's sometimes you have to cancel, you know, on nights out because you've got certain things going on or you can't reply as much as you want to because you're going through a really busy period. Or if you've got a partner, for example, you know, you're committed. It's like a lifestyle. Owning a company is like a lifestyle. That's what I say. And it's like,

it consumes your whole life, literally. So yeah, you need supportive people around you for sure. Did you ever find it lonely at times? A hundred percent. Like I found it incredible, like especially when I started, I basically started it during lockdown and it was actually like a grief project. So I'd started it after losing my dad and it was, I think, five months after. And that's another reason I didn't tell anyone because at this time, like I wanted to stay as busy as possible because normally, I guess if someone loses someone, they want to be around like their friends and family. And at this time, like Boris was telling us that we could only go out for like 20 minutes. So, you know, I was literally isolated in my house on my own. And I think a reason I didn't tell anyone was because, yeah, I was doing everything at that time. I'd signed up for like a law degree. I was like doing online French lessons. I was attending an online drama school, like no joke. I was fully doing all this stuff. And then I was starting a business at the same time. And I think I was just doing so just to like keep myself busy, really. That was, that's the only thing I could think. And I thought like some of my friends definitely

thought I was going crazy. But yeah, no, I was always passionate about starting a business. And so when I first started it, I was very lonely. Yeah, I was in passionate about starting a business. And so when I first started it, I was very lonely. Yeah, I was in lockdown. I was isolated. And I was just running this business on my own. Like I'd wake up, I'd go to the computer. I'd like do emails, customer service emails, take the packages to the post office,

come back, eat dinner, sleep, repeat, literally for about three months. So is No Nots Code the first business you've ever started well it depends what you mean by business because I've done a lot of uh dealings on the side you know I've done a lot of dealing they're legal right yeah no no no perfectly legal but I'll give you an example so my sister was on the x-actor, right? Uh-huh. Shout out Fleur. And while she was on the X Factor, I noticed that she was getting a lot of fans.

Yeah. Which is great. And I thought, how can I monetize this? Okay, so I started a t-shirt business. Fleur's fans or whatever, like vote Fleur to win, Fleur is X Factor. And I was selling them on Twitter and Instagram. To this day,

she has not received any proceeds of the profits. Sorry, Fleur. But she's okay. She's okay. She's doing well. But yeah, I was selling t-shirts

that saying Vote Fleur and stuff. So technically, I've started business, like that technically was a business, but a very short-lived one. So I've done like, I've done like a few things like that before,

but this is like, yeah, my first business that I've like registered. So I've done like, I've done like a few things like that before, but this is like, yeah, my first business that I've like registered. Like I've done like legit as a company, yeah. Because it's like,

you normally, when you speak to people that have their own business, it's not the first one they've had. Yeah. Like usually they've had, this would be like their third.

Yeah, yeah. And they've had to like close some because some have failed and projects have failed. So it's like more interested to know if you've had to like fail in order for No Nots Co.

to be so successful. Yeah, I would say, yeah, for sure. Like I've, you know, tried a lot of things or I wouldn't say that I've had lots of failures in the sense of like

I've started a business, I've started, you know, started running a company and then it's failed. But I'd say like I had a lot of, I guess business plans, we should say. And like, okay, I'm going to get this loads of samples.

My house is probably filled of Alibaba samples. You know, businesses that just never left the ground. And I think it was just, you know, you get really excited when you think of an idea and you're like, I know exactly what I'm going to do. And you stay up all night researching on Pinterest and this is how my brand's going to look. And then when things get a bit challenging or you face like an obstacle, if your heart's not in it, that's when you kind of give up and you're like, nah, this isn't going to work. And so I had a lot of that. And with No Not Co,

I guess I was passionate about it. You know, it was a struggle that I was, I was fixing my own struggles. So it was something I definitely was very passionate about. One thing that I loved about No Nots Co when I was like Googling it is that it's like sustainable, isn't it? Yes. Vegan. Well, technically not vegan. A lot of our tools are vegan.

We have two brushes that are boar bristles, which is like a curl maker brush and a nylon brush. Just because I did actually try the vegan versions and I just didn't think that they were better, to be honest. I think the main focus is like creating brushes that have recyclable packaging

because that was one thing I hated about hairbrushes that I would buy. It would just have all this plastic and I'm just like, why is a hairbrush got plastic? Why does it need this much plastic? And there's a lot of brushes and a lot of units. So yeah, I wanted to create a brush that was recyclable, BPA free, because a lot of brushes have BPA in,

which is like this toxic plastic, which what's that all about? And something that works. So I test all of the brushes. I send them out to like family and friends, get their reviews first. And then if they're all like, yeah, yeah, yeah, then it goes on the website, basically. I was going to say say if you've ruined any of your friends hair process of like selecting

not yet yet not yet maybe in the future all your friends watching this are gonna be like yeah i'm sick of using all these brushes no no no they've been really supportive so that's great typology is a skincare brand created in fr France with on a mission to demystify skincare with an affordable and sustainable skincare option. Now I love Typology for a number of reasons. I have a massive focus on skincare that is sustainable, but also skincare that is 100% vegan. And the Typology formula is minimal with the moisturizer only having nine ingredients. Another reason why I love Typology is that it has a very luxurious feel to the product and to the packaging. But the price does not match what I thought it would.

So Typology kindly sent me their four best sellers. The nine ingredient moisturizer, the Radiance c serum the radiance night serum and my personal favorite the eyelash and brow serum unfortunately unlike my brother i am not gifted with thick lashes and as i've had a lot of brow treatments over the last few years i have put my brow hair through the ringer and i feel like this has been a massive lifesaver over the last few weeks. For those of you that are watching and listening to the podcast and want to try Typology out for yourself, go to uk.typology.com forward slash GKN and you get yourself a free lip balm worth £16 with your order. That's uk.typology.com forward slash GKN. Knowing what you know now about yourself and your business of everything that you've like experienced growing up,

is there anything that you would tell your younger self? What, just in relation to business generally? I think we'll do business first and then we'll do like growing up after. What would I tell my younger self? I guess like just trust the process a bit more. I think I put a lot of pressure on myself when I left university to like have a career and have a job and what does that need to look like? And I feel like, yeah, I should have just, I guess, trusted the process a bit more. Like it's all going to work out. And I think living life and just finding your own natural interests and not applying that pressure on yourself is important because that's how you figure out what you really love and what career path suits you, I guess. And even, I mean, I'm 30 now and I started this when I was 28.

But even now, I just feel like I'm just getting started. You know, I feel like I'm just scratching the surface now. And I'm finally doing something that I love. And, you know, hopefully you have more businesses in the future. So yeah, I would say not to put too much pressure on myself to build a career so soon. And yeah, to trust the process. Because I think the one thing a lot of people expect is that by the time you're 30, you need to have X, Y, and Z. Like everything needs to be done by the time you're 30. Yeah. And I, do you know what? I think, yeah, society makes people make a lot of bad decisions because I think that, you know, you feel a lot of pressure to do certain things and hit certain milestones by certain ages. And, you know, luckily my parents never made me feel like I needed to do

anything at any age. Like they've never been like, oh, you're this age, get out of my house. Or do you know what I mean? Start paying your own rent. Or you should really have a career now. There's been times even when I was a makeup artist full time and there'd be months where I wouldn't be working and I'd just be at home watching Netflix and my mom would just be like, do you want some food? Not putting that pressure on me to be something.

So yeah, there's too much pressure I would say too much thinking about like pressure and like when you're putting pressure on yourself to get a corporate job were you ever worried that your hair was going to be an issue when like being in the corporate world hmm that's a very good question well yeah yeah I must say yes because I think in like popular culture a lot of successful like business women they have their hair straightened to be honest and I'll never forget I watched this episode of Scandal and if there's any Scandal fans in the house you'll know this series is so good have you seen it no I'm gonna have to go watch it now yeah you need to watch it um so there's this woman she's

called olivia pope and she's such a boss she's like a lawyer top lawyer she's friends with the president of the united states she is like a boss bitch and um she's got straight hair she's a black woman or mixed race i'm not sure and basically they did a throwback of like when she was in school and she had no money and she was broke and she had curly hair in that clip. But then when she's like rich and successful and got her life together, her hair's like straightened. And I was like, I just remember watching it and thinking,

why does she have to have an afro when she's broke? Like that kind of offended me a little bit actually. And I just feel like with a lot of these things, it is like that. And I think that's why there was a series called How to Get Away with Murder. And the main actress, it's gone out of my head. Does anyone know the woman? Viola Davis.

That was very quick. Viola Davis was like praised because she was also a top lawyer in this. And she like took her wig off and like showed her afro. And it was like, yeah, like you can be successful and still, you know, wear wigs or have an afro or have curly hair or, you know, all these things. So yeah, I think it's offensive actually when I see things like that. Yeah, because I think one thing is like, it's not seen as like professional or like you get told to control your hair. I mean, you can't, some people can't control going bald, so you can't control

having big curly hair. Very true. Very true. Yeah. Because it's like, it's a weird beauty standard. So like years ago when I was young,

I used to do beauty pageants and all of the black or mixed race women that would compete would always straighten their hair, relax their hair. And it's not until like more recently

we would see black women on stage with, like Chesley Christ, who was Miss USA, had massive, like big curly hair. Now it's like, you know, it takes a woman to kind of, in the public eye to step out and be like, actually no, my hair is beautiful as it is. And then other people feel more comfortable doing it. Yeah, 100%.

And you know what? That's why I feel like I love to just celebrate my hair so much more now because I know how much of an impact things like that have on people, just younger, older, whatever. And I think it's like a, I don't know, subconscious thing. Like I used to straighten my hair if I was going to prom, for example, or something like a glamorous event. I'd have to straighten it because that was me looking better than my hair if I was going to prom, for example, or something like a glamorous event, I'd have to straighten it

because that was me looking better than my hair that was curly. And then in the more recent years, I was like, hold on a second, like this is the hair, like this is the putting in an effort kind of thing. And so, yeah, that's when I started switching a bit more from like makeup videos to hair tutorials on how to like manage hair and, you know, style Afro hair and show different hairstyles and how we can manipulate it. Because I think people need to see that and we need to celebrate it for sure. And do you know what actually, like there's TikTok channels out there from mixed race children that have like a white mum, for example, that have no idea what to

do with textured hair. And like, you know, I think one of my friends has recently had a baby and her baby is mixed race and she's like, what am I going to do? Yeah. So she's now like watching videos for when her daughter gets older. So she's like, I know how to do hair now. Yeah. Do you know what? Actually, a lot of my DMs are filled with mums,

like white mums, for example, or sometimes black mums as well, who have kids with a mixed race hair and they're like, thank you so much for these videos. Like, you don't understand. I'm just like, wow, who knew just styling my hair, you know, on a casual day makes such an impact in other people's lives.

But I think that, you know, what you take for granted, like I always used to do makeup videos and think, why would anyone want to see a video of me doing my hair? You know, I thought this is my hair, it's boring, whatever. But that's, you know, know to someone else it's fascinating and so it's like we all have these strengths that sometimes we just dismiss or we don't even recognize as being our our thing and now it's like one of my favorite things about myself so yeah I definitely wish I'd celebrated it a lot sooner like thinking about like your brand's

future I know we had this discussion we had this conversation about hair extensions because somebody on instagram asked and you had like you don't use hair extensions no i haven't but someone basically somebody on instagram asked if you ever felt annoyed about the lack of diversity of products in the market in terms of hair like clippings and stuff yeah well you know what i feel like when it comes to retailers which I'm uber focused on now because I'm like right where can I get in what what space needs this we're moving forward I think I think that's that's the key it's moving forward like when I was younger you could not get products for curly hair in like a boots or something it just was not

possible and then there came the holy Grail Boots Curl Cream. Shout out to Boots because this curl cream got me through like year 10 all the way through university. Just this one pot of curl cream. And now you go into all these stores and there's so many more products, which is amazing.

But it's still only halfway there. And I feel like, yeah, I just, just you know what I just think if you can get hair clippings from anywhere it should be for everyone I just that's just what I think I think if you can get a hairbrush it should be for everyone if you can get foundation it should be for that goes for every tool every you know department of beauty I think there should be something for everyone because you can't really call yourself a beauty store if you don't cater to everyone yeah because it's not just I don't like with clippings and extensions I don't think it's just problem with like just textured hair I feel like people that are like more on the ginger red

hair yeah community as well also really struggle with the lack of diversity when it comes to hair clippings yeah yeah yeah and you know what I think it's still an up-and-coming market like I've seen a lot of a lot more textured hair brands now that are coming onto the scene. And so it's, it's something that's definitely moving forwards, which is,

which is amazing. Do you think that's something that you'd go into? Oh, I don't know. Do you know what? Am I going to expose your business plans already?

Don't tell them. No, do you know what? I don't know. Never say never in this life. But I would, for now I would say no because I think it's really important to put a personal touch

into your business and I don't wear hair extensions at the moment so I feel like a fraud selling them you know you need this

but I don't you know so I believe in selling things that you know you actually are a fan of or you're the number one customer

and so yeah but you never know you never know that is very true I think that, you know, you actually are a fan of or you're the number one customer. And so, yeah, but you never know. You never know. That is very true. I think, like, knowing what you know now, do you feel like, would you have changed any of the decisions you made when you were kind of paving your career? Well, would I have changed anything?

You know what? That question is just always so difficult because there are obviously things that I think could have done that better or should have done that but then if I'd changed them would I have ended up here yeah you know so so it's kind of difficult I mean I could have been better off to be fair I don't know but um it's hard to say what I would and wouldn't have done I think there are some decisions I made like I got a retailer Urban Outfitters in America, really early on. Like, I mean, after five months of trading.

Oh, wow. And that was probably a run before I could walk situation, basically, in a nutshell. It was like, I didn't know what I was doing, basically. I made it work and it did work and it's been an amazing push for the business but it was definitely one of those, added a lot more stress into my life that I didn't need at that time because I didn't have the tools,

no pun intended, to go into a retailer at that time basically. But then would you have changed that decision because then you wouldn't have learned what you learned from it? I mean, I don't know what they would have said if I had said, can we just hold off for a few months and revise this in the summer, I guess, when I've got my shit together. I don't know what they would have said. And sometimes you do need to dive in, you know. But yeah, that was very stressful. So maybe I would have started with smaller units

going into their stores. Every guest I ask, every guest I have, I ask the same final question. Okay, what is the question? And if you remember all the notes that I sent you. So I always ask my guests what they would say to people in their past and people in their future that would doubt your success based on the fact you're a mixed race woman.

Wow. That's a long question. That's a big question. Yeah. What would I say to people in my past? And what would I say to the people in the future? Yeah, that doubt your success. Well, so the people in the past, I'd say, fuck you.

No, I'm joking. I mean, yeah, you'd say that. I would say that. No, I mean, so people in the past, I'd say, fuck you. No, I'm joking. I mean, yeah, you'd say that. I would say that. No, I mean, do you know what? I don't know if, well, I probably have had, yeah, a few people that have doubted, doubted my abilities.

That's for sure. And I've definitely felt like I've had people try and bring me down on my journey. And I think that a lot of people say, like, to know if people are really there for you or really down for you. Like, I don't know, have a baby, get say, like, to know if people are really there for you or really down for you, like, I don't know, have a baby, get married, lose someone, start a business, level up, etc.

And then people really start to show their true colors. So I've definitely had a lot of people, a few people, not a lot of people, sorry, doubt, you know, my abilities. And to those people, I would say, well, look at me now. I would say, you know what, don't doubt anyone. Never doubt anyone. Because you know what, there are things I did not know I was capable of doing until certain factors and things happen in my life that totally changed my thinking, the way I am, the way I conduct myself. So, you know, you can never really underestimate anyone um and to the future people I'd say watch this space because we're coming we're gonna take over

take over the hair game Sainsbury's today rest the world tomorrow exactly exactly but um thank you so much for being a guest thank you for having me I loved it I'm so happy we finally recorded this episode I feel like I've been hounding you for having me. I loved it. I'm so happy we finally recorded this episode. Yes, I know. I feel like I've been hounding you for a long time. I've been looking forward to it. But yeah, no,

I, do you know what? I'm going to have to get my friends some No Not Co brushes now. Oh my God, I think everyone needs to get some No Not Co brushes.

And I will, I will send you a video when I see it in my local Zane's Bruce. Yes, exactly. Thanks. But yeah, no, thank you so much

for being a guest. Thanks for having me. I've really enjoyed it. Thank you. Hi, I'm thank you so much for being a guest. Thanks for having me. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. Hi, I'm Richard Karn, and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket Hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here, and it's a total game changer.

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