Girls Know Nothing - S1 Ep18: Ellie Middleton speaks Autism, LinkedIn Fame and Being a Founder with ADHD

Episode Date: December 1, 2022

Welcome back to Girls Know Nothing! 🧡  GKN is a female focused podcast hosted by @SharonNJGaffka   Girls Know Nothing's eighteenth guest is Ellie Middleton! Ellie is an autistic and ADHD activist, content creator, consultant and public speaker that boasts over 168,000 LinkedIn followers, which she gained in less than a year. Ellie who is a self named 'busy brain', is also the founder of (un)masked, which provides neurodivergents with a safe space.  On LinkedIn, Ellie talks about how old school professionalism is no longer relevant in the work place and encourages other young women to be more themselves in order to have thriving careers.  New episodes of Girls Know Nothing 🧡 will be released every Thursday, and will also be available on Spotify, Apple podcasts and wherever you get your podcast fixes!  GKN Social Channels:  Https://linktr.ee/girlsknownothing  Instagram: @girlsknownothingpod  TikTok: @girlsknownothing

Hi, I'm Richard Karn, and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket Hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here, and it's a total game changer. Old-fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's Pocket Pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust-proof anti-burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus, your super light and ultra-durable pocket hose Copperhead is backed with a 10-year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what, an exciting exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time, you can get a free pocket pivot and their 10-patter pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size copperhead hose.

Just text water to 64,000. That's water to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase. W-A-T-E-R to 64,000. By texting 64,000, you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Hose. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply. Available at pockethose.com slash terms. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates,

so you can reach the people you want faster. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. Don't wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get-K-A-T-Z 13. Just go to Indeed.com slash P-O-D-K-A-T-Z 13 right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Welcome back to another episode of girls know nothing today in the studio i have the fabulous ellie people that don't know who you are ellie feel free to give yourself a bit of an introduction thank you hello i'm ellie middleton and i'm a neurodivergent content creator speaker writer and consultant and i still need to find a shorter word to put them all together but

yeah basically doing a lot of different things around ADHD and autism. It's like, first of all, I have it like being neurodivergent. Your brain is constantly busy anyway. So to have all of these like additional things attached to who you are as a person, I can't imagine what your day ever looks like.

But your main source of where you create content is LinkedIn, right? That's where I know you from mostly. And my favorite LinkedIn post of yours was about how we should change the perception of what professionalism is and how being young and bubbly doesn't make you less professional than what we deem as stereotypically professional. Yeah, so it was actually really early on when I'd started LinkedIn. It was literally like three weeks of me being on LinkedIn and then it just, yeah, really took off, I guess. So I think I started working for an agency that did LinkedIn content for clients as part of the like offering that they were doing. So they

kind of asked me to start posting on LinkedIn. I was like the very kind of typical young person with like a grayed out profile picture and just like the list of jobs I'd done and hadn't really like known anything or used LinkedIn before. And I think I was just like very aware that I wasn't an expert about like marketing or personal branding and a lot of people on LinkedIn were. So I was like, what can I kind of talk about that other people aren't talking about? And that was kind of a thought that I had had and something that I was like aware of

getting back into the workplace. And like after COVID as well, I think that changed a lot of it. So yeah, I just kind of posted about it and it just took off and off and off. I think now it's got about three and a half million views. But loads of people did like their version of the post as well. So it just kind of, yeah, it spread a lot. And I guess kickstarted everything that I'm doing.

Yeah, because it's crazy because to have 168,000, well, more than that followers on LinkedIn, to me is like insane and mind blowing. Do you feel like you got a lot of backlash from that post? I think generally it was mostly positive. I think like, yeah, having that many followers on LinkedIn is just wild. Like I think now it's like at the point when I posted it, I literally had about 500 connections. So it was just like growing and growing and growing and growing. I think that post took me about 10 000 like overnight basically and then it's just kind of continued

to grow since then um but yeah I think I think generally on the post it was mostly positive with like people sharing their own experiences and stuff I think there is always like with social media always somebody out to get you and looking to disagree with you but I do think generally LinkedIn is quite a good place because people are literally got where they work on there so like fingers crossed they can't be too offensive or rude because like their employer will literally see it so yeah I think I've been quite lucky in that regard but yeah it is really strange to have a big platform on there now I think like the only, it's not really a thing to be like a content creator on LinkedIn. Like the only other people

with like big audiences are like big entrepreneurs. Yeah, exactly. Like Gary Neville, Stephen Bartlett, like the dragons, like literally like big business owners. And then I'm just like, hi guys, how are you?

But yeah, it's so strange. And every time that I think it must like be about time for it to like level off it just keeps going like I in my I did like a newsletter of like my goals for this year um and I said that I wanted to get to 50k by the end of this year and that was like by the end of this year by the end of this year so I started this year with 16,000 followers and I've now got 168. So it's like literally, it's just like,

I'm like, where are all these people coming from? But yeah, I generally like, was like, surely like that's like, that's kind of the only other people that I'd seen. Like that was like the threshold of like 50,000 was like amazing to hit on LinkedIn. And then it's just like, been and gone, been and gone, been and gone.

Yeah, it's wild. Oh my God. I think one of the things as well, it's like a niche, isn been and gone been and gone yeah it's wild oh my god I think one of the things as well that it's like a niche isn't it that there are so many people on LinkedIn for professional reasons but very few people actually post content so if you're if you post anything you know you're guaranteed to get someone to see it but um with your stuff I guess it's really relatable to young people um why do you feel like it's so important to change the perception of what professionalism is I just think that it's so outdated now and I feel like like I generally until like all this stuff happened over the last year like growing my audience getting my diagnosis I like genuinely

thought that I would never be that person who like excels in their career because it's like very like one type of person it's like the middle class white man it's the expert it's the person that's gone to uni it's the person that's done all like gone up the corporate ladder and like that just wasn't me it wasn't accessible to me it wasn't what I'd been able to do and now I am like doing like more exciting stuff than I ever would have dreamed of through not being that person at all so yeah I think it's just like I think with the post as well like my initial things had been quite like surface level stuff like I've got tattoos I've got piercings I go out on the weekend like quite like not that deep stuff

and then it had like helped other people like people's own versions were like women that had been told that they you know had to change their tone of voice to be professional or like had to wear a certain like had to wear heels to be professional or um like people of color saying that they you know they'd been told their hairstyles weren't professional so it was a lot like deeper stuff that I'd like initially realized and you like opened the floodgates almost of that conversation and then people were like yeah hang on I've actually been told so many things about me I'm professional and yeah I think it's it is a strange thing like I was very much in the past like work Ellie and like home Ellie and it's like is that a thing? We spend so much time at work. Like, why can't we go to work as the person that we are?

But yeah, I think it is starting to change. I think COVID did definitely help it to change a bit because we kind of like realized that even if people were at home in their pajamas, they were still capable of doing their job. But yeah, I think it's just very outdated. Oh yeah, I completely get what you mean. I think I remember like my dad is the typical,

you'll hate me for saying this if you listen to this, but he is, my dad is the typical corporate, cis, heterosexual white man. And, you know, he was always like to me, oh, don't get piercings because, you know, it will hinder your job or don't wear as much makeup. And I remember actually having somebody I work with pull me to one side to say that my work outfit

wasn't appropriate. And what I was wearing were pink trousers and a pink shirt. And it was basically, they were saying my outfit wasn't corporate because it was too bright. And I was like, but this is who I am as a person. And like where I found, I actually started to excel in my job

when I found people that would accept me who I am um and I guess now like when we see you probably see all the time on LinkedIn the people that are looking for new jobs want opportunities where they're going to be accepted and are allowed to work more flexibly and freely yeah I think like if you are showing up every day and pretending to be somebody else or like putting on this like persona of being somebody else, that takes away from your energy stores so much.

I feel like people don't realize that. But if like in every interaction, you're having to think about, am I saying this the right way? Am I coming across the right way? Am I like not sharing too much about my weekend? Because people are going to judge me if I've been like going out on a weekend

or I feel like that takes so much brain space up that then you can't use that brain space on the stuff that you're actually supposed to be doing so yeah I think if you're if you take away all of that stress of like worrying about being somebody different then you've got like your whole brain to be able to do your job rather than just like the bit that's left after all the anxiety of covering it up I do feel like that's a women issue though, more than a man's issue. Because, you know, when you compare emails sent by a man and sent by a woman, like there's more, there's additional words that don't need to be there

in an email sent from a woman than there is by a man or like how you think about your outfits. Yeah. And how you portray yourself because you're worried about being judged by your male colleagues. Yeah, definitely. I think it's like the further away

that you get from that, like the stereotypical middle-class cis white man, the more you have to think about. So I think it's like something that women think about a lot. It's something that neurodivergent people think about a lot. It's something that probably like queer

and trans people have to think about a lot. And I think it is like, yeah, basically like the further away that you get like the more kind of like ways of like intersectionality you get away from that thing there's like more different layers of things you have to think about so yeah I think it is definitely a thing of like it doesn't even cross a lot of people's minds probably but like you say it's like I cannot send an email without like exclamation marks and emojis so people know that I'm being nice um but that wouldn't even be like a consideration for somebody else it'd just be like this is what I need to say and I'm gonna say it like as a consultant what would you say to companies to increase like to encourage their

employees to be more themselves yeah I think it's just like for the company and like everybody in it to realize that 100% doesn't look the same for everybody and like normal doesn't look the same for everybody and I think it is just like I think sometimes when companies want to be more inclusive they like think or the reason that they don't do it is because they think that it's going to be really expensive or it's going to be really complicated and like we're gonna have to rip up the office and we're gonna have to implement all these new policies and so much of it is just like kindness compassion acceptance I think it is just like taking it at face value of like okay this person might look different to how you look does that matter no like this person might work differently to how you work does that matter

well no not really and I think it is just like getting people to like just have that extra layer of like, I guess like, like pulling themselves up on their bias of being like, why do I mind that this person is wearing pink trousers and a pink shirt? Like, why? Why do I actually care? You know, it's not, is it affecting their ability to do their job? No. is it affecting anyone else in the team no then like let's just let it slide and I think it is just like it sounds like common sense but it is just like just like work out like does this is this actually a problem or is it just that it's different to what I'm used to and I think that's like the main thing I feel like companies have so much unconscious bias training already, but none of it is beneficial work. So you're spending all this money already on training to people, but it doesn't

have an actual impact. You're just wasting money anyway. Yeah, I think it is like, it is so often, it's like in the literal like day to day tiny interactions. And I think that's where companies go wrong because they jump straight to like the big, like the big expensive announcements and the big policies. And it's like, it doesn't, we don't need any more policies. We just need like each tiny interaction to be a bit like kinder and more accepting.

Yeah, definitely. I think we did touch on it a little bit previously, but from my personal experience of starting to grow myself on LinkedIn, I find trolling on LinkedIn harder than trolling on TikTok. Do you think? I actually really do.

I think I have generally, I feel like on LinkedIn, there's always somebody that is like insistent on not understanding you, like not understanding that there's like obviously nuance in every conversation and you can't get that into like a little tiny paragraph of a post like there'll be some comments and i'll just think

you know that you know that's not what i meant um but i think the like level of it like i feel like i don't get like personally attacked that much which like i'm quite lucky touch wood i feel like i'm gonna jinx myself when i come out to like loads of trolls now. Like I've not had like the worst stuff across any platform, but I think like on like Twitter, TikTok, people can be like personally like hounded. Whereas on LinkedIn, it's more like you're disagreeing with what I'm saying, which doesn't feel as much of an attack. But yeah, I think there is, there's always someone that's going to disagree with you. But I think it's just kind of like part and parcel of like putting yourself out there online I feel like I need to be on your side of LinkedIn yeah it's like I'm one of those people

like arguments healthy like disagreement is healthy but I feel like I get personally attacked on LinkedIn so I'm going to come on to your side seems a lot nicer and I And I think, I think maybe it's because of the types of people that look at my LinkedIn content. Maybe it's like, as opposed to people that look at yours. Yeah, I don't know what it is then. I think it, yeah, I think,

I think it's just the same as any, I think like TikTok especially is like the two sides of TikTok, isn't it? Like you can like do so, like you can have so much positivity and then it's like, once it literally crosses that line, then it like all comes at you.

And I think, I guess LinkedIn is the same. If one negative person is commenting on it then it's showing it to all of their audience who might be made up of negative people as well but yeah I don't know I think I take it less personally on LinkedIn because it has their job and their name attached to it karma's gonna come at you itself like you don't need me to come at you like your employer can literally see what you've said so exactly and I feel like you know at least they're saying it with chest and they're like not afraid to actually say what they mean so I take it slightly less personally um but you know a lot of your content on LinkedIn um and you have mentioned it previously obviously that you are you are neurodivergent so um people that don't know what that means like if you want to give us

like a little bit of an explanation yeah so someone that's neurodivergent is basically someone with a brain that works like in a different way to the norm so for me that is I've got ADHD and I'm autistic so that's two very new revelations for me so I basically have always been diagnosed with like anxiety and depression and like spent a lot of time under like the NHS mental health services, but just like was kind of stuck in a cycle where I would like get to a really low point. And then like get myself out of it, do everything, like take antidepressants, do therapy, do everything that they said, get myself better. And I'd be like better for like six months. And I'd be like this really busy person, like really ambitious, really wanting to do stuff. And then like the six month mark would come around

and I would crash and burn again. So I think I just like knew that something else was going on, but I didn't know what. Like at first I was like adamant that it was like BPD or bipolar or something like that because that's the only thing that I'd heard talk about that would like cause a woman to be like,

go from so high to so low. So that was like the only kind of thing that I knew that could be a possible answer and then kind of did a lot of digging around like basically by luck ended up finding out about ADHD and autism and then got my ADHD diagnosis last October so just over a year ago and then got my autism diagnosis in April this year so all like very new but just explained literally every single thing and I think that there is a massive kind of wave of people that are getting that late diagnosis at the moment because like me they just didn't know it was even a thing before like I'd never once in my life had I or anyone around me considered that I might have ADHD or being autistic. But yeah, it's answered so, so many questions.

And I think that's like why I wanted to talk about it online because it's like. Hi, I'm Richard Karn. And you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket Hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here. And it's a total game changer. Old-fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's Pocket Pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust-proof anti-burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus, your super light and ultra durable pocket hose

copperhead is backed with a 10-year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what, an exciting exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time, you can get a free pocket pivot and their 10-pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size copperhead hose. Just text WATER to 64000.

That's WATER to 64000 for your two free gifts with purchase. W-A-T-E-R to 64,000. By texting 64,000, you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Host. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply. Available at pockethost.com slash terms. I just couldn't believe that I'd gone 24 years without knowing this like fundamental fact about myself. And it literally just answered all my questions. It made everything made sense. Like I could actually start to like myself as a person rather than just thinking that I was like broken um and I just like knew that there must be so many other like especially women out there

that like just hadn't like stumbled across that answer yet um so yeah it was just like basically feeling like I had this like secret and it had like answered all my questions and like knowing there must be so many other people out there who are still waiting for that answer. Now a word from our sponsor BetterHelp. A therapist can be very beneficial when it comes to helping you change your mindset in order to tackle life's big problems. Having somebody to talk to can be very beneficial. If you're thinking about giving therapy a try, BetterHelp is a great option. It's convenient, accessible, affordable, and 100% online. All you have to do is fill out a brief survey and get matched to the therapist. You are free to change therapists at any time. When you want to be a better problem solver, therapy can get you there. Visit betterhelp.com slash GKN for 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp,

H-E-L-P dot com forward slash G-K-N. It's like I've had guests on here before who also have ADHD and it's like quite well known that women do tend to get later diagnosis or it's harder to spot the signs. So what did it kind of feel, what did it mean to you to finally a later diagnosis or it's harder to spot the signs so what did it kind of feel what did it mean to you to finally get your diagnosis I call it my light bulb moment for like both of them as well because it literally like it is literally like I was like stumbling around in like a dark room for the rest of my life being like why can't I just do things the same way as everyone else and like why like something's so much harder for me but something's so much easier and like all of these questions and then suddenly it was like the light

was turned on like ah okay this is what's going on here and I think it's like it doesn't mean that like the room is any more tidy than it was when the light was off like there's still all of this stuff to deal with and like mountains of like trauma and like all this stuff to work through but it's like at least I know what's going on now so yeah I think for me it had my like my literal whole life has changed in the space of a year of just knowing that about myself and like knowing how to work with my brain rather than against it and knowing like what things I'm prone to struggle with and what things like helped me with that and yeah it is just I can't

believe that I literally like lived for 24 years like forcing myself to do things that literally are so uncomfortable for me now or like working in ways that just like were never gonna ever work for me um but yeah I think it is it is just wild that like it's never noticed because I think now looking back as well, there are so many things where I'm like, I literally could have been like the poster child for ADHD and autism, but still nobody even clicked because you're not like the naughty little schoolboy

or you're not like Sheldon Cooper. Like if you're not the very stereotypical, or in the past, if you weren't the very stereotypical, again, cis white man, cis white young boy, like no one was looking for those conditions in you. So yeah, there's so many of us that have just gone under the radar. But I think people are starting to get their answers now. Because I saw one of your LinkedIn posts about what it's like to work in a professional environment with autism and ADHD. And I think, think you know sometimes you struggle with eye contact or things like that have you ever had in a professional sense like people say oh she's a bit

rude because eye contact's an issue I think I like masked it to a level that it wasn't like I feel like I so like before kind of COVID before lockdown all the jobs that I'd worked in were like customer service I worked at a bank I worked in a post office but it was literally like I got to work and like plastered on like Ellie the customer service advisor and I think like I just kind of forced myself through that I think like there was not even a chance for me to come across as anything else because I just didn't like I just wasn't me in any way I was just like this character almost um which obviously was like without me knowing like so so draining I would

like come home and have no capacity to do anything else other than work um but yeah I think it's almost like became subconscious to to kind of counteract that which is like a big thing that a lot of especially autistic people talk about of like almost like going to the extremes of the other side to like make up for those things that are a little bit different but I do think it's like if I was to just even now if I was to completely exist as the natural version of myself people would call me rude they'd call me blunt they'd like all sorts but it's like there's nothing actually rude or blunt about what I'm doing again it's just like kind of a similar thing of like it's just a bit different like it's not offending anybody it's

not doing anything wrong it's just a bit different to what you've been told is the right way to do things um but yeah I think I'm I'm slow I'm a lot closer closer to real Ellie now. But I do think there are still some things where I will, I don't know, make things, like the email thing, I'll really consider, does this appear to be rude? I can't just communicate as directly as I naturally can without people thinking that I was being a bit of a bitch. So I think there is still little bits that I do, but I think I'm a lot closer to just being Ellie bit of a bitch. So I think that there is still like little bits that I do,

but I think I'm a lot closer to just being like Ellie as I am now. Because we are seeing like a wave of kind of like, you were diagnosed at 24, because we're seeing a wave of late diagnosis in young women, like what would be the biggest piece of advice you would give to people that think they might be on the spectrum or neurodivergent? Yeah, I think just like trust your gut with it.

I think there is such a massive like imposter syndrome that comes with it as well, because it's almost like, oh, well, I've gone this much of, I've gone my whole life without any support or without anybody realizing. So I must be fine. Like I don't need any support.

Like I'm not like disabled enough to like deserve that label or to deserve those accommodations. But it's like, yeah, I that like with the ADHD thing as well a lot of people are saying now like there's risk of people like over diagnosing themselves because it's like all of this like TikTok there's so much content out there and people like might relate with that and think like oh you know maybe that's me but I think that the telling sign is like if when you see that stuff think like oh you know maybe that's me but I think that the telling sign is like if when you see that stuff or like when you see someone talking about it or when you read that

list of traits is your gut like ah like this everything makes sense now um because that very much was it for me I had them like ages of doubts I think like there was like six months between my ADHD diagnosis and my autism diagnosis um and I knew from the same time that I got my ADHD one that there was something else going on but I think I just didn't want to admit to myself and I felt like an imposter claiming to have this label that like nobody had confirmed for me yet um but I like deep down I as soon as I like saw all that information at the start of like looking for other creators like being on Instagram TikTok like even the NHS website just seeing the list of traits like literally my gut was like you know holy shit like everything makes sense now

um so I think it is like yeah just kind of it's there's so much information and there's so much to take on board but just like yeah trust your gut it. And also don't be like put off that by other people, other people's opinions. I think there is still this stigma of being like, oh no, you don't, like you don't need to get, you know, you're normal. You don't need to get diagnosed with that. Like you're fine. You're, you're doing fine. And it's like, I'm not questioning whether I'm doing fine. I'm not questioning whether I'm a nice person I'm like trying to understand the way that my brain works so yeah I think it is like it's it's trust your gut on it and like you you know you're you more than anyone know what your experience is like because you're the only one like living it yeah exactly like like you said I I'm like your self

name busy brain I think I'm the same like I've got a million tabs open but I know it's because it's information overload of the internet and not because I have ADHD and it's something that people need to be able to differentiate. And there's no such thing as normal. Like, you know, because we're in an age where there is so much information

constantly at you all the time, I think it's better for people to like, you know, if they feel that way, to go and seek help for it. Yeah, definitely. To just shy away from it. And like you said, you know, you feel that way to go and seek help for it definitely to just shy away from it and like you said you know you've now come into your own and you feel more comfortable with who you are as a person since your diagnosis I think that's only fair that everybody else can feel the

same way about themselves eventually yeah definitely I think as well with like that like like over diagnosis thing it's like the biggest risk that happens if someone thinks that they have adhd and they don't actually have adhd the biggest risk is that they start to organize their life a bit better or they like work in ways that are like more helpful to them but the biggest risk if they never get diagnosed because they never have that information is like they spend their whole life literally feeling like they're broken or feeling like something's wrong with them which is like like which one would you rather like people have different routines or people literally have zero self-worth for life so I think it is like yeah I think there's this there's no need to like you say gatekeep like if if you're working a bit

differently and you know even if you don't kind of meet the threshold for a diagnosis but some of those techniques and strategies can help you live in a better way then like why wouldn't you like lean into work in a way that's best for you it's like because we was talking about how you had a late diagnosis at 24 but to live another 24 years without the diagnosis especially the 24 years where you work yeah like you do all those adult things I really try to avoid talking about but you know that, that's going to be even harder. Like school's hard enough as it is, but it could get even worse. Literally, and there's so many,

like there's so many people that kind of don't figure it out until literally like motherhood. Like so many people will have either with ADHD, like they'll have their child and it like throws their whole routine up in the air and that is like what highlights the fact that they've been like covering it up and overcompensating their whole life because they don't have that structure anymore which is I think what happened

to a lot of people in COVID as well um but also there's like the other side of it where loads of people like mothers will have sons sons because they are the more like stereotypical way of presenting, will get diagnosed with either ADHD or autism and then the mum will be sat in the appointment like, hmm, like a lot of these things sound a lot like me and like we're all like, you know, our family's just like that and then the mum will like end up going after a diagnosis after that as well, which like at that point,

like you have another person dependent on you as well as like at that point like you have another person dependent on you as well as like like you say like work house all of these like grown-up things and it's like yeah I can't imagine how that much feel to like have all of that kind of stuff depending on you and then have to like try and re-figure out who you are as a person and how you best work so I think I like obviously there's a lot of what ifs if I'd have been diagnosed when I should have been diagnosed but like I'm lucky that it it happened now rather than like either not happening at all or happening a lot later down the line so just then when you were talking about um what ifs and I always I'm one of those people that

really believe in timing of the universe and when I was stalking you on LinkedIn I'm sorry you probably got loads of notifications being like Sharon has looked at your profile and I was like hi it's me um you are the founder of Unmasked which is obviously an organization to kind of educate people on neurodivergency so what kind of inspired you to start that? Yeah I think it was almost like a natural byproduct of my audience growing because especially on LinkedIn, I think this is like where LinkedIn is different to other platforms as well. People will connect with you and then have the ability to message you, whereas like on any other platform, it just like go to your message requests or they wouldn't be

able to message you. Whereas people like have access to be able to message me and like almost feel like because that's how LinkedIn has always been used in the past like it's like an it is a networking platform so like people think that they have a lot more access to me is that I feel a lot more accessible to people rather than if they were just following me on I don't know Instagram or TikTok so I was getting so many messages from people who because it's like a topic that people don't get a chance to talk about a lot, maybe haven't seen someone talking about publicly. So many people messaging me like asking for advice, like saying that they were in the process of getting diagnosed, like asking how I knew just like so, even now, I don't have the capacity to answer all those messages. But as it grows more and more, I can't be that friend, like, literally, like 200,000 people. But I also was that person a year ago that was going through the process and had nobody in real life that knew anything about them. Like, no kind of, no person to go to with those questions it's like I was that lost person a year ago so I also don't just want to leave people with no answer so it was like okay I can't individually

be that support system for all of these people but what I can do is like put them all in one room together where I can both share information with them and everybody gets access to that information and also they can become friends with one another and have somebody that's like in the same stage of the process as them. So it was more of just like, okay, I can't deal with this. Rather than like a plan of like,

what would I like to do? It was just like, okay, this would solve this kind of problem that's starting to happen. But yeah, it's so nice. I feel like just like knowing that people have got that support that I didn't have literally a year ago is it's so nice to see people have that like somewhere to turn to to ask questions and to be able to get access to information because it is

a literal minefield like I think the problem is that all of the information that's out there at the moment is like not representative of all. It's like that's kind of the reason why people haven't got diagnosed because all of the diagnostic criteria is based on research that was done on young white boys. So there isn't any like technical scientific information that represents all of these people. And then it's like it is just a case of who you find,

who can you find on Instagram, who can you find on TikTok that's sharing that information. So by like having somewhere that I can literally put like blogs, information, resources, videos, Q&As, it's just like bringing everybody together, I think, and helping people through that process. So yeah, it's so nice for me as well, because it is like literally I am still, I still, well, I've met a lot of people now through the work that I do.

But still, like none of the friends that I had before this happened know what I'm going through. They don't know what, you know, they don't have the experience. So it's like I am benefiting from those friendships as well. But yeah, it's a really nice thing to do. And I'm excited to like see how it grows. Is it a recent because it must be a recently new started yeah so we started in like mid-august oh wow really yeah so we just started it kind of has been like a bit of like a trial and error thing as well which has

been nice so it's kind of we had um so I worked with a couple of freelancers on it and we kind of had a plan of like what we would like to have. But then it's been like more things have evolved where people have been like, oh, I'm really struggling working from home. And it was like, oh, okay, well, we can host body doubling sessions where everyone can co-work virtually.

So I think it is like, it's been nice that it's so new and it is also just like a combination of what everybody that's actually in there wants to have as well. I love the idea of body doubling, like everybody working from home virtually. It actually makes such a difference.

Like I cannot do admin tasks. I'm the worst person at replying to messages, emails, like accounts, like all admin tasks. My brain is just like, no. So if I literally just sit on Zoom with somebody, I don't know what it is, but I can do them. If they're working and I'm working it's like the only way

that I can get stuff done like literally like my virtual assistant before we started hosting the sessions I sometimes would be like can you please just use your

half an hour today to just sit with me on Zoom so I can like the things that I can't ask you to do because you don't have like all my logins

and stuff like that but just having you sat there will make me do them it is the most bizarre but amazing thing. That's so strange. I mean, I'm terrible doing accounts anyway,

but that's because I don't like numbers. So I think, but like, that's so weird because I feel like sometimes when I'm sat on Zoom with people, I have the opposite effect where I'm like, hmm, don't like it. But like, I've realized that, I didn't realize it was such a good thing for other people.

Yeah, I think there's like, especially like, it is like a big thing in like the ADHD community, like kind of outside of our community. Like it's quite a well-known thing. And like, even just like stuff like, I struggle with keeping on top of household tasks, but if I just have someone sat with me, I can do them.

You know, I'll potter, if someone's like at my house, I'll potter around the kitchen. And I'm like, I would never potter around the kitchen if I was here on my own like it would just be a mess so yeah it's a strange thing

body doubling but it does have such a big effect this is like a really random I think this is probably a question that I've got in my head now does it have the same effect if there's an animal sat there

or is it just a person I don't know actually I feel like like the reason it works with a person is more like accountability and like okay but I don't maybe maybe I don't know, actually. I feel like the reason it works with a person is more like accountability. Okay. But maybe, maybe, I don't know. Maybe that's my reason now that I'm getting a dog. Yeah, so I was just wondering, like, would a dog have the same effect as a person? Yeah, I don't know, actually. That's really interesting to think about. Because Vienna, for me, is accountability

to get me out of bed. Yeah. Because she'll start jumping on my head otherwise. Yeah, I guess it is like a similar thing that's like you have to get up and out because like someone else is depending on you yeah yeah that's so like that was just a really random question for me that I didn't plan I was like oh my god but it worked the same as the dog that probably sounds makes me sound really stupid like um no but like it's been I love like the one thing I love about this podcast is like learning a lot from different people and I feel like I've already learned so much about neurodivergency because I didn't even know that word was a label or a thing I just knew that there was like there were people that with ADHD and with autism but I didn't realize there was like an umbrella yeah so there's literally like under the neurodivergent umbrella it's like dyslexia dyspraxia dyscalculia Tourette's is in there as well. It's basically just like a brain

that has a different configuration, I guess, than the standard brain that most people have. I love that. Yeah, I just like learning about other people because then I kind of feel like, okay, well, I'm weird in some aspects, but then I meet other people and I'm like, actually, no, do you know what?

Everybody does operate slightly differently and I feel like we have to now work in an environment where people are accepting of how other people work and I think that's one of my favorite things about LinkedIn and why I want to use it so much more because I love learning from other people that work differently and even if you don't have like even if I'm not neurodivergent I feel like I've learned so much from you and how you work already um I did have to I didn't have to prep me for the final question because I was really worried that it was going to like freak you out because it's so long um but I wanted to know what you would say to people in your past and people in the future

that doubt your successes based on the fact that you are a neurodivergent young woman yeah I think it is kind of like similar to what I was saying before like just take things at face value like I don't know I've I had a really like until literally this year like I felt like a career like a proper career was like completely something that wasn't going to be accessible to me because I dropped out of sixth form because of what I now know to be autistic meltdowns, but at the time thought it was anxiety. Like I didn't get my degree, so I didn't go on to get a corporate job. And like, I think with that, I always kind of felt like, well, I'm never going to be able to get anywhere because I don't have a degree and it's like but that would have actually not stopped me from being able to do any of the jobs that I originally wanted to do and it's like yeah just taking somebody at face value of like is this person like intelligent enough and capable enough to do the job rather

than is this person what we want on paper? Would like, now I completely think, like I think at school as well, like everybody kind of says to you like, oh, it doesn't matter too much about like, don't worry too much about your exams. And it's like, you can't ever see that. Like you're just so like deep and you're like, no, I need to get these grades to go to this.

You need to do this, to do this. And it's like, why? Like just taking things at face value. And I think as well going forwards, like. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy, just use Indeed. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites.

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Taking the way that I work at face value, like I will never again be able to sit at a desk or Hiring, indeed, is all you need. sat there because you know they might work in that like slow and steady way but I've learned that I work in like sprints rather than marathons but that so some employers might be like oh well you know if you're not going to do the 40 hours then you're not getting paid for a full job but it's like but if I'm doing the same amount that anybody else is doing in half the time then why does it matter what what way I do that in or if I do that from home or the office or if I work in the evening rather than the daytime and I think it is just like taking those things at face value of like does this affect this person's ability to do the job and if not then that's none of my business yeah I think I guess it's the question about is like length of time does equal productivity basically and like ways of doing things as well I think like just like little things now where like I have like a dictation software where I

can record voice notes and then it types it for me and then I can quickly edit it and it's like why would like if say if it was my job to write a blog why does it matter if I am sat typing away the blog or if I'm going on a walk recording it while I'm having the thoughts and then editing it afterwards and I think it is just like yeah everybody works in different ways so why are we forcing everybody to do things in the same way I think like we'll be much happier if we can all work our own way because we won't be like forcing ourselves to do things that literally don't feel right but employers will be much happier as well because they'll get the best out of everybody because they're doing it in the

best way for them so it is when I talk about it more I just think like why is nobody seeing this like you would like I am like the the like perfect example of it that like literally 18 months ago I was working in a call center on minimum wage, hating every single second of it, but didn't feel like any other job was accessible to me. And now, literally 18 months later, I'm like advising, I'm working with Google, I'm working with Adobe. Like, that is not like, you know, how is that possible? I've not learned anymore.

I've not done a degree. I've not got any qualifications. I've just started working in the way that works for my brain. So yeah, I think it is just wild how we're all kind of like forced to work in the same way when it just isn't the right way for everybody. No, I agree.

And do you know what, actually, I really appreciate you for like saying that. So I know there'll be lots of people that listen to it and think like, oh, these things aren't accessible to me because of who I am as a person. And I feel like that's the whole point of this podcast, that you're capable of doing anything.

So I really appreciate you taking your time out and sharing your story with me. And I probably will continue to stalk you on LinkedIn for the foreseeable, but I can't wait to see what you do next. Thank you. And thank you so much for having me. Hi, I'm Richard Karn.

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