Girls Know Nothing - S2 Ep1: Shell Rowe, Making a Career through Cancer, Recovery, Lewis Capaldi, Grieving the Life Before Cancer & Staying Positive

Episode Date: January 26, 2023

Digital creator who shared & documented her brave story of being diagnosed with cancer and as a result has gained an audience of over 760k across tiktok and Instagram. Shell in the past year has beaten cancer and documented her journey from being diagnosed at 20 years old after her girlfriend found a lump on her neck which resulted in Lymphoma cancer through to her recovery. Recently Shell was the subject of Lewis Capaldi video “Forget Me” where her story is bravely shared. Shell works with the teenage cancer trust and macmillan, where one campaign she created different styles on her head (shown below in the video), Shell has carried on showcasing styles such as Spaghetti and Foam on her tiktok and empower other young people who are fighting cancer and as a result lost their hair. Shells story is nothing short of inspiring! https://youtu.be/OriqGTPNgh0

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Just text water to 64,000. That's water to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase. W-A-T-E-R to 64,000. By texting 64,000, you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Hose. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply. Available at pockethose.com slash terms. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates,

so you can reach the people you want faster. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. Don't wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get-K-A-T-Z 13. Just go to Indeed.com slash P-O-D-K-A-T-Z 13 right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Know Nothing. Happy 2023. I can't believe we're in the third week of the year already and I haven't released an episode.

I obviously need to up my game. But for the first episode this year, I'm so happy to say that we have Shell Rowe in the studio. I'm sure lots of people know who she is and we don't need any introductions, but feel free to introduce yourself. So I'm Shell. I'm 23, of people know who she is and we don't need any introductions, but feel free to introduce yourself. So I'm Shell, I'm 23, film and TV graduate, recovering chemo addict. It's like, it's really weird to hear, well not weird, I've never heard anyone describe themselves as a recovering chemo addict before.

When you've had as much treatment as I have, like it has to be an addiction. I can't walk away. I just love the hospital. I guess that was like one of the main reasons why I wanted to have you on the podcast because I actually have followed you on TikTok for ages. I think my favorite video of yours

is when you stuck wash-on, wash-off tattoos to your head. Oh, I loved that one as well. I'm not gonna, like, I really wanted to go out in public with that one the first time

I did it, but I didn't have the rocks. And then the first time I did it but I didn't have the rocks and then the second time I did it, I like shaved, my hair was growing back and I shaved it down again because I was like.

Just to make that video? To like, it was Halloween. I was like, oh my God, I need to go as a prisoner and like do this because I don't really care

about my hair now. I'm like, oh, I'll shave it off if I want to stick Cocoa Pops to it again next week, you know what I mean?

I guess that's like, I think that's one thing that probably like separates you from, you know, other stories I've heard of because normally when young women are diagnosed with something

like you have, hair loss is one thing that they're very conscious of. Massively. So I guess like it's really, I think it's really nice and inspiring to see what you've put on TikTok.

But like, you know, how, like, tell me about your diagnosis. So I did Google you and it did say non, it's really creepy. I say it to everyone and they're always like,

okay. Love that. I don't know how to pronounce it. Non-Hodgkin lymphoma. So I got diagnosed with stage four non-Hodgkin lymphoma when I was 20 and I think that was in 2019.

It was just before COVID, I think. was in 2019 it was just before Covid I think um yeah so it's a type of blood cancer I'm not sure I feel like it's more common in older people and then like Hodgkin lymphoma I think is more common in younger people but don't quote me on that it's actually funny like the longer that the diagnosis goes on the less I know about it because I'm just like oh like I've got I haven't got the space in my brain to keep all of the information. So I actually forget. I don't think like, I guess when you're battling something like that, that's probably the least thing you're worried about, right?

Yeah, I feel like at first you're like, oh my God, like I want to know everything and I want to Google everything. Like it got to a point, like even any kind of like treatments I was going for, or say I had to have like a PICC line put in which for people who don't know it's like a cannula that basically goes in your arm and runs to your heart um and I would they would try and give me like leaflets for stuff and be like oh this is what you're doing I said babe I don't want to know keep that information to yourself because it just freaks me out and I'm like I know I've got to do it anyway so I would just rather not know like pull my hat down over my face when they're doing things so I'm just like none the wiser yeah I guess that's like saying ignorance is bliss right

yeah it definitely is and I guess like when you were so young when you were diagnosed you were saying you were 20 I guess there's so many things especially as a young woman to like have to think about you know we were talking about hair loss um another one of your videos I was um really amazed by was when you were making jokes about fertility planning oh the fun yeah yeah I didn't know that's how it was done so there are like different options that you can do but basically because when I first got diagnosed it was stage four like they were a little bit worried about it spreading to my brain just because like it was spreading in an abnormal way so I already had to have like my

normal chemo and then intrathecal chemo which is like a lumbar puncture right and they just do it in your spine um and because of that they were like oh we can we can like do a fertility treatment for you to help preserve it but it would take probably a month so you like get injected with hormones for like three weeks or something and then they put a needle into your vagina can I say vagina on here yeah yeah I mean put it into your vagina um and I'm not gonna lie when I heard that I said it's not for me do you know what like children are a bit ratty anyway like maybe it just wasn't meant to be and the reason that I told them at the time I was like um you know I'm really worried about it spreading to my brain I just don't think it's

worth it and that was true to a degree but truthfully I just didn't want a needle in my minge it's it was a no-go no I like I was completely baffled by it but you're like when you're going through cancer treatment like I've had family members that have gone through it as well, you're being poked and prodded in so many different directions. But not down there. There's got to be a line. Do you know what I mean? Like I will put up with most things, but I think when it comes down, I'm just like, no. In the end, actually instead. So I was always told like my fertility was like gone. And then, so I'd had six treatments at this point and I'd pretty much accepted like okay it's not there and then just before my stem cell transplant they were like oh do you want us

to check we can just do a blood test I was like why didn't I tell me this whole time I could just have a blood test so they didn't they were like yeah you you're still like you've got some fertility there I was like okay and they ended up removing one of my ovaries instead so I would rather have surgery than have the needle whatever they were going to do. Because again, like I was knocked out for it. So for me, I'm like, oh yeah, okay. That's much better. I think that's actually insane that you would rather do that.

But it's also really mad to think that at such a young age, you had to think about that because this might not be a definite thing that you want, right? Yeah, no, that's the thing. And in a way, I'm like, I feel like I've been more fortunate than some of my friends because being gay as well,

I'm like, well, my partner has a womb. So we kind of get two for one and I'm like, I've put it on her and I'm like, you've got to have our kids. And maybe we could do something like, I don't know, like IVF and she takes my egg or something like that. I don't really know.

But I suppose that made me feel more like I had more options or like you know I'd be up to adopt or things like that um yeah even in the surgery I was kind of like oh do I want to do this like because I see her as my backup and I'm like I'll just use hers like do I get a choice in this oh no that's no I guess that is the nice side of it I think a lot of young women, especially if they're in a heterosexual relationship, do feel a lot of pressure to... Yeah, like my friends have really, really struggled with it,

understandably. And it has made me feel lucky in that sense that I do have more options than they have, but I'd probably feel just as gutted if I was straight. Yeah, I think it's hard, but when I was Googling you as well, I heard that you'd relapsed three times. Yeah.

I don't want to make you emotional. Oh my God, no. I actually find it funny. It shouldn't be funny, but I do find it kind of funny because it got to a point I was like, I'm tired of actually telling people because it was so ridiculous. I would send my friends a flipping WhatsApp

once every couple of months, being like, guess who's back, back, like, and then it's like, oh, it's gone again. And it was just like, I didn't even know when to like celebrate. I don't even remember a lot of the dates. I have like a notes app in my phone now to actually remember like when I've been diagnosed, when I've been relapsed.

Like most people are like, oh my God, it's so ingrained in my memory. I'm like, how could I possibly keep up with all of that? Yeah, it's just constantly on and off, but hopefully off for good now. Was it ever easier to get the news every time it happened? Yeah, do you know what? It's so funny.

It's always been a completely like different reaction. I think the first time I relapsed, it was only a month after I'd gone into remission. So I was kind of like, it's like I never left really. Like it was straight back to the hospital and like I hadn't got back to my normal life yet. And then I think after I had CAR T cell therapy, I was in remission for like eight months,

which at the time for me was a record. So that one was really, really hard because one, they had told me that that was like the last treatment they could do for me. So when I heard it, I was like, oh, fantastic. Like, that's it. And like, I'd got my normal life back, like pretty much.

So it was really gutting to be sucked back into it. And I'd feel the same way now like I haven't even got my normal life back like my life has got so much better like so many things have changed and I'm like I wouldn't want to have to give it all up again yeah I guess like going on from that we were talking um briefly off camera about your TikTok well your your what did you call yourself fun employed now yeah. Yeah, fun employed. And how you started TikTok. So last time I checked, you were over 700,000, but that might have changed. Yeah, pretty much that, yeah.

Yeah. So like, how come you started TikTok? So I think it's literally like the same story as everyone else, but it was lockdown and I was like, I always loved making videos and like doing skits and things like that and um I like TikTok because like your friends weren't supposed to follow you on it right it was meant to be like a private thing and I was like this is great like you know Instagram and all that you want all your friends and family but this was the first platform where I feel was like just strangers seeing it and I was fine with that and I didn't think anyone was going to watch it anyway and then I wasn't really posting that frequently. And it was when I got my first relapse,

so second diagnosis, that I started like posting more and more and like story times from the hospital. Because I was initially like, I like blew up from posting story times of like Karen's at the Macmillan Cancer Centre. And then it's like this year that it went crazy for like all the hair stuff,

but I'd been doing stuff for like two years. I feel like my account has always been a little bit different. I just kind of like chop and change with whatever's going on in my life. But now people will only like say to me like, oh, you're the girl who sticks stuff on her head. I'm like, wow, what a legacy. I mean, do you wish people remembered,

well, not remembered, do you wish people recognised you for something different? I wish sometimes people would be like, oh, I've seen your videos for this and that. I don't blame them. The ones of stuff on my head went way bigger than anything

I ever did before then. But what I want to do with my platform, I want people to be able to get to know me as well and be a person outside of cancer and outside of just being bald. I think that's what people know me for. So that's what I'm going to try and work on this year really is trying to show people the whole thing.

That was really fun and I enjoyed doing that. I'm not sure I want it to be my permanent legacy. Eventually I would like to have hair yeah not cocoa pops that's the thing like when my hair was going back in people were like disappointed in the comments I was like sorry I kept shaving it down for ages as well because I had like it grew back in so patchy and I had like a bald patch right here in the front of my head so I kept on like shaving it until and it's finally like coming back in all over. But oh my God, it took its time.

I think that's, oh yeah, I can imagine actually like eventually. Like, how do you even think of these things? I think I saw the tattoos, the popcorn and the Coco Pops one. I just took people's like suggestions. People were literally putting in like thousands of suggestions. It was crazy. And my dad always, I need to give him credit because he goes on about it. He's like, that's my idea.

But he came up with it, the Coco Pops. And it was like when we were in hospital just because I couldn't physically eat and I'd like made him buy these Coco Pops. He was like, I spent three pounds on this. What a waste.

Like we need to do something with it. And he suggested putting it on my head and I was like, oh, at this point, like might as well. I was so bored. I'd been in there for like 10 weeks. So the boredom definitely gets to you.

I think, you know, we always talk, well, every time I talk to somebody about social media and having any type of following, especially on TikTok, there's a lot of highs and lows that come with it, I guess.

To me, it sounds absolutely insane for somebody who is going through cancer treatment to be at the hands of trolls. But I guess you weren't free of them. No, like it's gotten a lot better. But there was like a period of time, so it went crazy. I basically ended up on like the Andrew Tate side of TikTok you know like football

Twitter that kind of thing oh gosh and it was horrendous like there was like a good few months where my comments would just be filled with these like teenage boys or like men all anonymous always the same story isn't it and like they would literally be like your cancer should have killed you like you don't deserve to be alive. Like, the craziest comments. And I'd read them and I'd just be like, what? And where this all, like, stemmed from, right? I didn't used to engage with people, like, leaving me hate, but I kept on getting people, like, question my gender

and, like, not even really my sexuality. They would just constantly go to me, are you a boy or are you a girl? Or is it an it or is it? And don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind people saying, what are your pronouns? There's nothing wrong with that. But it's a big deal how you ask.

And it was not respectfully asking. It was trying to be derogatory. And on this day, I just thought, fuck off. I've had enough. It was like, is it a girl trying to be a boy or a boy trying to be a girl? Which I thought, it was just so transphobic yeah because even like trans women are women and trans men are men so I really didn't

like the way they put that and I replied in this video and it was so passive aggressive and yeah the like football twitter hated that so they came for my throat just being like getting messages all the time like your cancer is going to kill you, it's going to come back, like, you're never free of it, don't think you're going to escape, like, blah, blah, blah, crazy. So after that, I was like, you know what, it's not worth it. And I just stopped, like, just blocking them. And luckily now, like, it's so different. Like, I barely ever get hate comments, which I'm really, like, fortunate. Every now and then it happens but like everyone has to expect that online um but I'm really fortunate that most of the things I get now are really positive and lovely like people make me cry all the time I'll

read my comments oh my god I guess yeah I don't know what it is about like football twitter and that that side of TikTok why they just feel like they have the audacity to say certain things to people because you would never want someone to say that to your family member or your friends. It's just crazy what gets me is that literally one in two people are affected by cancer in their lifetime it's like like you might not care about saying it to me but like your friends and family are probably going to see that and at some point like they're going to be going through it whether you like it or not yeah and like I'm not gonna lie you can go to hell you can go to hell like saying those things to people like whatever comes to you you deserve it that's what have the

day you deserve that's what I say to these people now like I'm so bitter yeah I am bitter but no I don't think you're bitter at all do you know what I'm gonna start feeling that and I'm gonna start saying to people that really irritate me. Yeah. Like that Uber driver that made me bin my coffee the other day. But anyway. No, I think like when we were talking about like highs and lows of social media, obviously,

even though it's been a very tough journey for you, you have been able to create like a career that you love, I guess, and like be able to work a bit more freely. I have seen you, well, one of the reasons why I wanted you to come on the podcast is that I saw you on your Instagram story

talk about how people hated the fact that you were like monetizing of stuff that happened to you. This was like stuff on, to be honest, this wasn't even about me. This was about some of my like friends in the community that like people were making comments about.

But just to go from the beginning, one of my friends, a cancer content creator, had said, like, this is awful, like, tattle. And I hadn't heard of it before. And I was like, tattle's the word. Yeah, you know we're all so nosy. I had to go and look. And it was a thread on cancer influencers.

And luckily I wasn't on there, but there was a lot of my friends and people that I respect within the community that were just being read for filth. Like like I could not believe the things they were saying and one of the main things was like um you know trying to like how can she afford to do this and that like she's profiting off this she's making money blah blah blah and I thought and like why does everyone have such a massive problem with people who deserve to make money making money like they'll be the first to complain when Jeff Bezos is hoarding all the wealth in the world but

god forbid someone that actually is contributing to the public and to our community like gets to live a nice life hi I'm Richard Karn and you may have seen me on tv talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket Hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here, and it's a total game changer. Old-fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's Pocket Pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust-proof anti-burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus, your super light and ultra durable pocket hose Copperhead is backed with a 10-year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what,

an exciting exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time, you can get a free pocket pivot and their 10-pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size copperhead hose. Just text water to 64,000. That's water to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase. W-A-T-E-R to 64,000. By texting 64,000, you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Hose. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply. Available at pockethose.com slash terms. I just didn't understand it. And the craziest thing was like these comments weren't even coming from trolls like I'm used to, so like teenage boys all this it was coming from other members of the cancer community they were like they were trying to justify it they were like well I'm a survivor and I think that they were

saying like about money they were saying like they're milking it now you know it's been this long since their diagnosis I didn't know there was a cutoff point you know like people are going to be coming for me next because hopefully coming up to my one year in remission, like, am I not allowed to talk about it anymore? It was just, it was so wild because anyone who's going through it knows that like, once you've had cancer, like your whole life is changed and it never goes back to normal. And that trauma likely will not fully heal, you know? So who are you to tell someone when they can like stop talking about it and even like grieving about their friends it was like all right like pack it in you're milking it now it's

like what just no empathy basically. It affects I think the thing is people forget that something affects everybody differently and like there can be a multitude of things you can get like PTSD from or things you'll never heal from. And you would never imagine turning around to somebody else and saying, like, I'll get over it. That's the great, like so many people have PTSD from it. Like I don't, I don't have any like long-term, I don't think, but there was definitely a period of time, like even with losing my hair, I had constant nightmares for like a month of like, my hair had grown back in and I'd touch it and it would all fall out. And like, I'd wake up just like sweating and crying. And like, I wasn't even that fussed about my hair like I you know I came around to the idea of being bald and like whatever not having it so I dread if that's how I dealt with it I dread to

think how people who really really like you know I got it about losing their hair deal with it there was there were so many things like treatments that I've been through and then I will have nightmares about and just wake up like screaming or crying so it's like how can you say to people you know you need to stop talking about it has such a psychological impact it's crazy I think with the whole like monetization thing or forming a career out of it you're turning something that's happened to you that's negative into a positive and I don't think that's a bad thing that's totally what I believe also you didn't ask for it that's happened to you that's negative into a positive and I don't think that's a bad thing. That's totally what I believe. Also you didn't ask for it. Nobody chose to have this. So many people like when they start creating these accounts and like raising awareness and doing it like they're not doing it to make a profit they do it and people love their content and they engage

with it and it just so happens that they are then able to make some money from it and I think that's fantastic like I want to see more people who are doing good things in the world actually get so happens that they are then able to make some money from it. And I think that's fantastic. Like, I want to see more people who are doing good things in the world actually get rewarded for it and be able to make a career off of it. I do not understand why it's so like stigmatized. Like, oh, it's so wrong for these people to be making money. Like, I think they're just bitter and jealous, to be honest. That's my opinion. I mean, everybody still has bills to pay, right? Yeah, yeah. It was like when you were talking about being able to do good things,

we briefly spoke off camera about how you do some work with Teenage Cancer Trust. Yeah, I try and do like as much as I can. Like whenever they like ask me to do stuff, I'll always do it because since the start of my treatment, it's been like three years, I've always had support

from Teenage Cancer Trust and Macmillan. So like I've been, what's I've been treated on a lot of their wards by a lot of their nurses, like they've given me financial help, like loads of stuff. They're just a really, really amazing charity. I think it's one thing that people don't necessarily realize that they think when you get a diagnosis like cancer, you automatically think it's just a physical thing and maybe an emotional thing. But obviously there's so many things that lots of organisations out there do for people outside of the treatment stuff.

Yeah, I mean, it takes over everything. Like I always say, I think it's like totally 50-50, mental and physical. You know, I feel like if you go into it with a really shitty negative attitude, which is so easy to do, like I'm not saying that's bad, like everyone deal with it how you want to deal with it but I definitely found that when I had that attitude it was it was unbearable and it was you know we've all had those

points where I just thought I don't want to do this anymore and it just like my body would physically like the anxiety of it they wouldn't be able to do my treatment sometimes because I'd let myself get go so down this rabbit hole like I remember even one time I can't remember what I went in for I think I had an allergic reaction to chemo or something but the anxiety was so crazy like my blood pressure was going wild like my hands were shaking like nobody's business they're trying to pin me down to put in like a an arterial arter line. Is that how you say it? I think so.

One in my wrist or whatever for my blood pressure. And like, I must have had like 10 people in the room and I was like in intensive care. And it was because my anxiety had just spiraled so incredibly out of control that even getting a cannula in was like, couldn't do it. And that for me is something that I literally did on a daily basis for years. So I always, it's like, you cannot underestimate couldn't do it. And that for me is something that I literally did on a daily basis for years. So

I always, it's like, you cannot underestimate how much of the battle is mental. Because on another day, I wouldn't even bat an eyelid and tell me why we've got 10 people, an ultrasound machine, like people holding my arms down to do the simplest of things. But so I guess that's why like, the organisation is so important to you and for you to like work with them. Yeah, because it's like, so there's a few individuals. So I had like, they're called youth coordinators and I had someone called Marlies and a guy called Tom now. And like, you just come to rely on them so heavily, like the people you can trust and like talk to

and they calm you down and like, your friends and family like aren't always going to understand what's going on. You don't always want to tell them the truth because it's like, you know, parents like my girlfriend, they don't want to hear certain things like the way you're feeling. They're already worried about you and then it's like, oh, by the way, I'm feeling like this today.

So having people to speak to and keep you company in the hospital as well is just so important. I think above all else, what they've done for me, that was like, could not have got through it without that. Do you have anxious thoughts or are you restless at night? Sometimes do you just feel like you're not your best self? Well, making sure that we feel our best should be our top priority for 2023. And by spending a few minutes with Calm each day you can make sure

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Calm's got everything you need for a happier and healthier you. So don't forget that Calm is offering an exclusive 40% off Calm premium at calm.com slash gkn. That's calm.com slash gkn for 40% off. What would be your biggest piece of advice to somebody that's getting a cancer diagnosis at a young age? So I think the main things I try and say is like you've really, really got to try and be yourself still. Like you'll feel like you lose

so much of yourself to cancer. And, you know, to an extent it's true, like you're going to go through a lot of changes, but like you've got to remember the things that make you you and try and stick to them and have a laugh oh my god like you've got to have a laugh like I mean maybe not take it to the Coco Pops extreme yeah like me and my friends like I just love it so like the the fourth time that I got diagnosed and I get like every time it's existential crisis I'm like this is it this it. I'm on my way out now, guys.

And like, I remember obviously having a breakdown about it and I like phoned my friend up. She lived like a minute down the road and we got there and we just started laughing. We were just absolutely cracking up and the cheek of this bitch, right? Because I was meant to be going for my stem cell transplant literally the next day. And she knows that more than anything,

I hate packing a bag and I had to pack for like a 10 week hospital stay. I was dreading it and I get there and she goes well at least you ain't got to pack that bag I thought oh I actually cannot believe you but you know you need friends like that to have a laugh and like I always remember that and it's so weird that my memory of that relapse is actually more a testament to the strength of that friendship than actually feeling in this place of absolute despair. You need to have those people around you who can joke with you. It just makes it bearable.

I couldn't believe, literally, off the phone with my doctor 10 minutes later, we're cracking up on the pavement. We look like crackheads. We're sat down on the street. It's just ridiculous. I guess there's a thing like, I know like, having had family members

that have had cancer treatment, you also feel like you need to tiptoe around them, but I guess that's not what you want. Yeah. So, oh my God, so many people feel that way. I've made a few like skits on TikTok

because one of the things that really gets me, like it makes me laugh, it doesn't actually annoy me, but like whenever cancer is mentioned anywhere and it's mentioned all the time and you'll notice that

when you get diagnosed. On TV, adverts, everything. Yeah. Anytime an advert is like on the TV or something on the radio or whatever, everyone in the room

just turns to me and is like, and I hate it. I feel like I'm under a microscope. I'm like, what do you want me to do? Like cry? Like, can we just like, I hate it.

My girlfriend like, I don't know if she just does it to wind me up now. She'll like just do a side eye, you know like dogs when they're eating something they shouldn't be and she'll be like like just tricking it in on me I'm like mind your business back on the tv please you couldn't imagine that happening for anything else no it's just so awkward I think I hate like this I just I just hate people like looking at me for how I'm digesting the news of certain things as well.

I used to really struggle whenever I would get bad news in hospital with the doctor. I would just try and hold it in and then I'd sneak off to the bathroom and cry because there's nothing I hate more than people looking at you or touching me especially. That's a big one for me. I know people naturally want to like,

go and be like, oh, they're there and like, stroke your back. And I would literally be like, getting scoliosis. Yeah. Get away from people. No, I get it. Like, we have talked about like, you know,

quite a lot of the low sides of it. Obviously, some of the positives that you have your fun employment now. Yeah. And you have done some really amazing things. I saw your appearance in Lewis Capaldi's music video. I'm very jealous. I love Lewis Capaldi.

He never replies to any of my DMs though. Oh God. But how did that happen? I was so gassed about that. So that was at my old management. They did like a lot of music stuff. And funnily enough, actually, you know Summer? People listening, Summer is like a lot of music stuff. And funnily enough, actually, you know Summer? People listening,

Summer is like at HLD as well. She was managing me at the time. So she, yeah, she messaged me and she was like,

I was on the train at the time, she was like, do you fancy doing a Lewis Capaldi video? I nearly, I jumped out of my seat. Like,

people on the train must have been like, actual weirdo, like, keep it to yourself. But I was so excited and I think that was one of the first, like, proper kind of work things yeah I had done and obviously it was just such an amazing

opportunity and it's so cool because he's doing like a series I think for his new album um so each each song is going to have a video that's like dedicated to a different story like all kinds of different things so I just thought it was so amazing to give your platform to different people and like project their voices. I thought it was really cool. No, I thought it was really cool. I also would be very excited if I got a phone call to be like,

look, Aldi wants to work with you. So I wouldn't blame you for jumping up and screaming on train, but you know, it's not your only campaign that you've done. Like you've worked with like the brands of like Aldi and stuff like that. Yeah, so that was with like Teenage Cancer Trust as well so off the back of the

um so all the hairstyles I was doing online just for ages I'd wanted to fundraise for Teenage Cancer Trust and I could not like I can't do anything physical like my my physical health is still like at zero at the moment and my dad did the marathon for me I think it was in October so that was great. But I still wanted to do something myself. And I just thought people are really like engaging with this stuff. Like it's also really good for raising like a positive dialogue around hair loss in women. Like why don't I contact Teenage Cancer Trust because I'm always like in chats with them anyway. So I just sent my contact a message and was like, do you guys want to do this as like a proper campaign

and call it like anything but hair? And then we did it and Aldi like matched funding and all that. And it was so much fun. I love the looks that came out. So if you look on my Instagram, it's like there was like a flower look and we did like a feather mohawk, like a feather bowl cut.

I loved it. I actually loved it. It was so like camp. I was like, why would I actually wear this out? Like, I love this. At least it's easier to look after than like hair. Yeah, yeah. But what would be your,

what's like your most favorite thing that you've done? What for? Well, since, you know, your new career. Oh my God. There's literally been so many things this year. Like when I like edit together my little 2022 recap, it made me so emotional because I was just so blown away by how a year that started so bad turned into what it turned into like I think I went to like a Marc Jacobs event which was like the first event that I got to go for from TikTok I thought that was so cool that they'd even like

heard of me or wanted me to come to this. And I like going to Disney premieres and doing the video with Lewis Capaldi and I've done a few documentary bits and just so much stuff. Oh my God, the Tango ice blast machine. I'll forget that. That one was crazy. I literally like,

what was really funny, I didn't even tell my mum about this really. I just applied for the competition and didn't think I was going to win it and then I won it and we thought it might be like a little countertop. You won a full... It was a cinema-sized Tango ice blast machine.

I'm actually really jealous. Oh my God. And when it got delivered, like, I'm looking at my mum who keeps on giving me, like, the side eyes. I would be giving you the side eyes. She kept on making comments.

She was like, oh my God. Oh my God. I was like, pray for me. It was coming in the house, like this huge delivery truck. Yeah, it was massive. It even had the screen on it and everything. But yeah, it was in my house for like the whole summer it's gone now oh do they take it back yeah it was only ever meant to stay for a month and they actually let

me keep it for like I think it was like four months or something I even had like I made my own flavor and I like personally I did the marketing for the I was like oh I want to come up with something I think I called it Coconut Shell Collada, to have the little pun in there. And then my hair had just started growing back on my head and I looked like a coconut. So I was like,

can you guys turn me into a coconut? And I like roll on the screen. So they did that for me. No, but it was amazing. I'm going to see if I can get it back this summer. Tango, if you're listening, please. Maybe don't tell my mum. But like, you know, you have mentioned that you are you're a gay woman um and i was really surprised actually that

there aren't that many public facing gay women yeah i don't think there's loads i think i think gay men get a lot more of a platform now because like, especially looking at things like makeup brands, right? Like it's almost the thing to do now to be inclusive. And I feel like a lot of the time, actually people's first step is to put like gay men in things, which is great as well, but they're not the only people, you know,

that could do with a platform and like being featured in these kinds of campaigns. Do you feel a lot of pressure to know that you are like one of those, like very few public facing gay women I mean I feel really honored to like be able to have some kind of a voice I want to do more stuff to do with like LGBT because I feel like a lot like most of my audience I think they know I'm gay it doesn't take a genius looking at me it doesn't take a genius but um oh my god I forgot what I was even saying sometimes this is chemo brain right and

sometimes I'm literally mid-sentence and then it's just gone it's out to be fair I don't have an excuse and I always do that um no saying yeah so I want to do more like um LGBT like related stuff I would love to be known as more of a figure in that community too, because I think especially, I know it's not exactly groundbreaking, but, like, definitely coming to terms with my, like, identity this year. Like, when I first lost my hair, right,

I went really masculine, because I'd always been a bit of a tomboy anyway, and I was like, okay, I guess I'll just lean into it and didn't mind too much. But then I kind of, like, I was like, I actually really miss like getting dressed up and like doing my makeup and things like this and wearing jewelry. And I kind of felt like it wasn't for me anymore because I had to be this like masked lesbian. And it was only, I think it was after my graduation, like my friend was like,

oh, let me do your makeup. And I was like, okay. And I loved it so much. I was like, why the hell have I been like- Hi, I'm Richard Karn, and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket Hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here, and it's a total game changer. Old-fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's Pocket Pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust-proof anti-burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus, your super light and ultra durable pocket hose Copperhead is backed with a 10-year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what, an exciting exclusive offer

just for you. For a limited time, you can get a free Pocket Pivot and their 10-pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size Copperhead hose. Just text WATER to 64000. That's WATER to 64000 for your two free gifts with purchase. W-A-T-E-R to 64000. By texting 64000, you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Hose. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply. Available at pockethose.com slash terms. Gatekeeping makeup for myself being like, you're not allowed that. Like you have short hair and you like to wear men's clothes. And I think I've just gone on this whole like journey in the past like year or so. I've just actually really enjoying experimenting with gender and like maybe being more androgynous and mixing masculine feminine. I think I just want to show other people

that there is literally no rules on anything. like you can wear and do whatever you want and it sounds like really silly like yeah of course you can do that but you know I always considered myself pretty open and like proud but I'd stopped wearing makeup the second I lost my hair so maybe I'm maybe I'm not like that's the thing like with people that are not very I was going to say savvy or open-minded, they always think, they're always like, oh, which one's the girl and which one's the boy? And it's like, well, neither because we're gay.

That's kind of the point. So, you know, it's weird to hear that, you know, maybe you felt that you also had to fit in to a box. Yeah, I think I often looked at like what I thought people expected of me. And because people had always known me as this tomboy, I was like, okay, I guess I've got to fit that role. And don't get me wrong, sometimes I don't mind.

I love being like masculine as well and like doing all of that. But I think I really suppressed that. There are lots of feminine things that I enjoy doing. And I think people try and like create this binary, like you really have to be one or the other. And it's just not the case. And I'm kind of embarrassed for how long it actually took me to be like, oh yeah, like you can be anything you want to be.

And now I'm just having so much fun, like trying to experiment with and play with gender as much as possible and like do fun camp looks. And yeah, I'm just trying to do more and more of that every day. I think so I I'm an openly bisexual woman and I always get a lot of messages especially from young women that don't know if they are like and things like that you know when did you realize or was it always a thing that you knew about? This is really funny actually because so I actually had a crush on this girl in like year one, right? And every day I would ask her to be my girlfriend.

But it was coming up to Valentine's Day and like I was trying to win this girl's affection and my two like boy best friends fancied her as well. We were like, let's do a joint card. And we wrote this girl a card and oh my God. I haven't even told my mum I was the ringleader of this. So I lied to her and said it was the boy. So if she's watching this, I'm really sorry mum that this is how you found out I wrote a song in it and it

said to gonna blank her name I want to know where you're getting this I was in year one I didn't even know what it was but I just thought yeah that's romantic put it in a card anyway our experiences of year one are very different oh my god I was going in head first but like her mum found the card in her bag I got called into their teacher's office luckily

back in whatever year that was apparently lesbians didn't exist and I was like this couldn't have been you Chell like you know

we know it's the boys and you were just influenced and I went yeah do you know what I'm going to go with the prejudice it was the boys get them

add them throw your mates under the bus and I got like grounded for like two weeks fair enough and I think it scared the straight into me for a little while subconsciously okay and I didn't fully realize I was gay until I was like that 14 maybe 14 I was like all right it's coming back out and then all those memories came flashing back at the song and I was like she always knew she knew well yeah I think that's I don't even know what to say my brain's kind of like oh my god what I think like catch it on Spotify soon we're gonna we're gonna bring out the song I don't know if you're gonna get that past Hannah but

but no I think it's I think it's always really hard because everyone's journey is very different and you also don't owe anyone

justification and explanation on your own sexuality yeah yeah definitely like I think at the time when I came out

I think I was like 18 like oh my god I was like shaking you feel like you need to tell everyone like oh my god I've got to come clean I'm harboring this dirty secret and now I'm just like if I could go back I wouldn't have bothered

like it's absolutely no one's business and like you know they'll find out when I post my girlfriend on Instagram like you know it's only come out if you feel like that's something you're comfortable to do and you feel like you want to do it like it's really not a necessity anymore what would you say to people like what advice would you have to people that are questioning their sexuality if you're doing a buzzfeed quiz then the answer is yes you're gay I've never actually you never did that am I gay quizzes like girl read the room you're gay like if you're on google like type that in you are gay I mean yeah that's one way to look at it I think actually that's probably the funniest piece of advice I've ever thought yeah fair enough um so I ask people pretty much a similar

um last question um so for you like I want to know what you would say to those people that judge you and your success based on the fact that you've made your success as being a cancer survivor um do you know I think I think if there's one thing about me is I'm gonna turn something that maybe makes the odds stacked against me into something that works for me because I think really there's no other way to be like you either sit and you're going to let these bad things that happen to you define you and like, you know, like feel all this self-pity

or you can be like, right, okay, how can I actually make this work? You know, like, I don't know. You just got to spin it. I think this is like my business hat on. I'm like, think of a way that you can actually benefit from this and turn it into something positive

that is bringing happiness back into your life. Yeah, that's amazing. I think it's nice to, like trolls are very clearly unhappy people. So it's nice to know that you're actually happy with what you're doing. But honestly, thank you so much for your time. And for being strangely open

about your year one experience. Like I'm actually, I'm going to leave here like thinking about it still being I've been meaning to put a TikTok up about that because I still find it

so funny but I know the girl as well I'm running to her at like a party and I was like do you remember that she's like yeah I remember

I would run away very quickly okay one of those things that when you're asleep and you're like you remember that thing you did like years ago

and you're like oh guys I think I'm a hopeless romantic like tell me if you've got that card now you're like oh guys I think I'm a hopeless romantic like tell me if you've got that card now you're not oh part of the restraining order yeah blocked um but no honestly thank you so much and I and I really appreciate the honesty and you know I'm I can't wait to see what you get up to for the rest of the year it's been real

hi I'm Richard Karn and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket Hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here, and it's a total game changer. Old-fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's Pocket Pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust-proof anti-burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for

effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus, your super light and ultra durable pocket hose copperhead is backed with a 10-year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what, an exciting exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time, you can get a free Pocket Pivot and their 10-pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size Copperhead hose. Just text WATER to 64000. That's WATER to 64000 for your two free gifts with purchase. W-A-T-E-R to 64000. By texting 64000, you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Hose.

Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply. Available at pockethose.com slash terms.