Girls Know Nothing - S2 Ep5: Rachel Grocott - CEO Bloody Good Period: Period Poverty and the Cost of Living Crisis

Episode Date: February 23, 2023

GKN is a female focused podcast hosted by @SharonNJGaffka Our next guest is Rachel Grocott, the Chief Executive Officer of @bloodygoodperiod9991 (https://www.bloodygoodperiod.com) Bloody Good Period are a non-profit organisation that fights for menstrual equity and the rights of all people who bleed. As period products aren’t free in the UK, in the midst of a cost of living crisis, it means that many people can’t afford or access them. People who menstruate suffer because of the culture of embarrassment and shame that exists around this natural, biological process. Bloody Good Period provide products to those who can’t afford them and provide reproductive health education to those less likely to access it. Everybody needs to talk about periods! * If you need help accessing period products, please reach out to your local food bank or community organisation. Bloody Good Period works with more than 100 partners like these organisations, via our pad-to-partner model, rather than sending out products to individuals. If your local org doesn't provide period products, please ask them to do so, because everybody deserves a bloody good period! Bloody Good Period also provide support to international crisis's, and are also providing support to those in the Turkey-Syria disaster. If you're able to donate, you can help Bloody Good Period get more period products to more partners - they currently have a growing waiting list as the cost of living crisis bites. You can donate here: https://bloodygoodperiod.beaconforms.... *  New episodes of Girls Know Nothing 🧡 will be released every Thursday, and will also be available on Spotify, Apple podcasts and wherever you get your podcast fixes! GKN Social Channels: Https://linktr.ee/girlsknownothing  Instagram: @girlsknownothingpod  TikTok: @girlsknownothing

Hi, I'm Richard Karn, and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket Hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here, and it's a total game changer. Old-fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's Pocket Pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust-proof anti-burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus, your super light and ultra-durable pocket hose Copperhead is backed with a 10-year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what, an exciting exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time, you can get a free pocket pivot and their 10-patter pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size copperhead hose.

Just text water to 64,000. That's water to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase. W-A-T-E-R to 64,000. By texting 64,000, you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Hose. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply. Available at pockethose.com slash terms. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates,

so you can reach the people you want faster. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. Don't wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get-K-A-T-Z 13. Just go to Indeed.com slash P-O-D-K-A-T-Z 13 right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Welcome back to another episode of girls know nothing during last week's episode i introduced this year's international women's day theme which is hashtag embrace equity equity recognizes that each person has different circumstances and allocates exact resources and opportunities needed to reach an equal outcome in september 2022 you goov found that one in eight people who bleed are likely to struggle

to afford sanitary products that they need for the year. And in 2021, the British government abolished its 5% rate of VAT on sanitary products, also known as its tampon tax. Nevertheless, 48% of Britons think that this has been ineffective at helping reduce the levels of period poverty in the UK. YouGov went on to find out that 29% of Britons also say they've never heard of the term period poverty, but are our conceptions of what constitutes period poverty actually correct? Well, here to discuss that with me is Rachel, the Chief Executive Officer of Bloody Good Period. Bloody Good Period are a non-profit organization that fight menstrual equity for all those who bleed, including distributing products

and providing proper menstrual education. Welcome to the studio. Thank you so much for having me. It's all right. We were having brief conversations off camera and I was saying to you that I feel like I've learned more from you in a space of five minutes than I have from any form of like education I had my entire school life actually my adult life as well which I think is why what you do is so important well I'm glad to hear that yeah and we can talk about lots of other topics um and I think I've had a similar experience I've learned more being involved in Bloody Good Period in the last five years than I did through years and years of actually having periods myself, even having two children. There are things that I learned now that I think I really should have

known that years and years ago. And yeah, you're right. This is part of what we do, education, normalizing so that people can talk about periods. We think everybody should be able to talk about periods, whether you have them or not. And that's all part of getting products, but also information and the support you need to manage your body, understand what's happening to it every month and live in a way that you're not ashamed of your body and what it's doing, because these are normal things that nobody needs to feel ashamed of and we should all have knowledge over. So what's like, what is your normal day-to-day at Bloody Good Period?

Oh, good question. I mean, I don't think there is normal. The things we end up doing are so varied. So let's see, to give you a flavour of this week, I had to fill in a really long application form to get some funding from a corporate funder, which is brilliant.

And of course, they have due diligence processes, which includes a very long form with lots of documents and details to give them. So nice bit of admin, but it will result in this amazing funding, which helps us do what we do. We had a team meeting where we learned about the menopause. So maybe we'll come on to talk a bit more about that later why we're doing that. But we want to understand menstrual health throughout the life course. And we are doing our own training to become what we call bloody good employers.

And we've got a workplace training and accreditation program, which all companies can and should do. And we were going through our own internal training to do that. So the team got together and learned about menopause. We also ate some really good cookies that day because it was Valentine's Day. So the team got together and learned about menopause. We also ate some really good cookies that day because it was Valentine's Day. So the team had been baking.

Yeah, very important. We are planning fundraising events for later in the year. So we are just getting into setting dates and lineup for Bloody Funny, which is our annual comedy night fundraiser. You should definitely come. And we're also working on an event called Bloody Good Music. We held the first last year with Chlor should definitely come. And we're also working on an event called Bloody Good Music. We had the first last year with Chloro Ampho and we're doing another one this year. So it's really varied. And then of course, on the operation side,

we are working out how we get products to people because the demand is really going up. Our budgets are being squeezed because obviously fundraising is really tricky. Products are also more expensive. So I'm sure we'll talk more about this. But like everything else, the cost of period products has really gone up in the last year. And that includes for us buying in bulk for our partners as well.

But our partners, which includes things like drop-in centres for refugees and food banks, community support groups, are experiencing unprecedented levels of demand from people who are being pushed into making these impossible financial decisions between life's essentials and if you have a period that includes period products you know they're not optional they're not a luxury despite what adverts might want to tell you or the tax that you mentioned might have told you so we are having to provide more and more of those and working out how we do that in the best most efficient way to help as many people as possible is something that we're constantly looking at so we're working with brands to get donations in as well working with new partners

um so that is the the bulk of our everyday work i guess it must be really hard and very challenging for you guys as an organization at this current moment in time, because every time you turn on the news, there's a new thing about cost of living crisis, which means obviously the demand will go up. And like you said, the amount of money you're able to bring in will drop as well. I don't actually know if this is a possibility. You know, when you go to food banks, are period products ever considered as a necessity when you go to something like that? Yeah. I mean, that's a really interesting question. So yes, sometimes, but not always. And that's a big part of our work as well. So this is a generalization. And of course, this won't happen every single time. But imagine if you are a cis man who has never had a period

and you happen to be running a food bank. If you have never had a period and you don't talk to anybody who has a period because, oh, you know, that's a bit weird and shameful and embarrassing and you have never been taught about it at school, how are you going to know what products that people using your food bank might need? And that's the same scenario in lots and lots of different places, workplaces, schools. Just this week, we've been hearing about the response to the earthquake in Turkey and Syria, where the response is being coordinated exclusively by men, by members of the military. So period products aren't being mentioned and the shame there is so strong from a cultural perspective that women aren't able to ask for the products they need.

So this idea that periods are not factored in, that it's better to just ignore them, whisper about them, maybe use some euphemisms rather than actually factor in the fact that this happens and people who menstruate need products and they need them every single month

really has consequences. Yeah, I think I know it's one of the biggest parts of what you guys as an organization do. But you know, all of the time I spent growing up because there was no education for any form of menstruation. I said to you, I went to an all girls school. So chances are pretty much every single person at that school menstruated. I remember like even when I entered the workplace in my mid-20s putting tampons up my sleeve because I didn't want to offend my male colleagues or people that didn't have periods. And they're not offensive. They're not offensive weapons. And I was like embarrassed

or ashamed to be going to the toilet and seen with a wrapper in my hand. Yeah. But the culture that we live in tells you that that's the case if you think about adverts for these products they have blue liquid they have odor-free technology they even have rustle-free wrappers i mean when you start to break that down that is madness isn't it i didn't even know that was a thing it's a thing that personally aggravates me the most the whole idea that you will you cannot not possibly give an indication that you might be managing this most normal of biological functions and that companies can make money off selling you a russell free wrapper they've actually put time and money into innovating to make their products not make any noise that's mind-blowing at the same time as loads of people can't even afford to buy them yeah that's really bizarre i

think as well if you're using a bathroom where people menstruate, the chances are everyone in that bathroom also has a wrapper. No one thinks you're going to be in a chocolate bar in the toilet. I didn't even know that was a thing. Like I know there are a lot of different products out there and it's very hard to navigate what's right for you. And that's why I also think education is so important

because there's like moon cups and stuff now. Yeah, yeah. There's huge variety and that's why I also think education is so important because there's like moon cups and stuff now. Yeah, yeah. There's huge variety. And that's one of the education sessions that we run for both people who use our services. So we run education for refugees and asylum seekers who will really struggle typically to access information about how to look after their period,

the products that are available to them. But we also run similar training sessions for our partners. So, you know, you were asking about do food banks provide periods, period products? Well, hopefully they will if they're one of our partners

because we'll provide this training on, hey, these are the products available, the difference between this type of pad and what's a liner and how do cups work? So we provide all of that support we also talk about language so helping people to talk about periods in a really inclusive way and also a shame-free way um and just one really important thing on language actually

we never use the term sanitary at bgp okay Because the implication there is the period is somehow unsanitary. Same for hygiene. Are they unhygienic? No, they're not. They're just normal. So we say period products. And again, it's a really simple thing you can change that's actually really powerful because language is important, right? There's nothing shameful about our bodies doing what they're supposed to be doing. How do people become partners with BGP? So lots have been working with us since we started nearly seven years ago. I hope I've got my maths right. So I found that Gabby was volunteering at a drop-in center for asylum seekers when she realized that period products were not being given out. When she asked where they were she was told oh we have those uh you know for if if there's an emergency but of course if you have a period and you don't have a product that's an

emergency um and she also knew that people were not in a position to be asking openly for those products so she set out about collecting products um and yeah we've we've grown from there so some partners are from those early days like um that initial organization where Gabby was volunteering are still a partner and others linked to that organization and then lots more have come to us as we've grown and done more communications about what we're here to do and we have a process by which we talk to them understand who they're supporting um and how we can best help so we always want to make sure we can be there for people every single month there's no use like delivering products one month and then disappearing because they're going to need them again the next month so we want those like long-term sustainable relationships and we want to be able to provide that support as well.

Do you ever get schools reaching out to you to help support you? Yeah, we do. So we don't officially work with schools because other organizations do. Okay. And the government did instigate a free period product scheme for schools that started just prior to the first lockdown. So it still exists. Schools can opt in to that to get products. We still get requests from schools saying the funding isn't enough and it

doesn't provide the products they need. The evaluation of that scheme so far has also shown that it doesn't come with education. It's just the product. So actually, it's nowhere near as effective as it should be because teachers don't have the language or the knowledge to talk to students about periods not exclusively of course but often and then students don't have the confidence or the language to ask for the products they need because it's really shameful and they've been told by the advert that they can't possibly tell anyone that they might be menstruating. So it's a vicious circle. And we're hearing stories of products sat in cupboards and not being used

because there's no education to take away that shame and stigma. It's like I was saying to you off camera that the first time I'd ever used a tampon, I was sat in a... My PHC teacher was a cis man. Yeah. So I wasn't going to ask him about how to use a tampon. I was 14 years old.

And the only way I learned was to be sat in an English block cubicle with one friend on one side and one friend on the other and talking me through it. Yeah. And I found that quite embarrassing, even though they were my best friends and we all had the same issues every month or we've all been through that stage.

But I felt embarrassed and I felt frustrated that an adult or somebody that I trusted wasn't able to tell me that or somebody that should be able to be looking after me, really. And I felt let down. I don't even know if it's changed 13 years down the line. I think that there are some changes and there is more openness around it. And we've even seen things like some retailers now have a period product aisle instead of a sanitary product aisle.

So there is some change, but there's still also a really long way to go. I mean, the stats that you had at the beginning about so many people not even knowing what period poverty is, or that it could be a real, very real issue, I think shows that we've still got a long way to go. And even, you know, thinking about our charity's name, we still get people who are outraged by it. And it is not the bloody word that they're objecting to, because that's quite know a quintessential british swear word yeah it's not even really a swear word anymore no it's the period bit they're objecting to which blows my mind you can just see like by my face and my brain's going like why is that an offensive word yeah and i i don't when you see on social media especially like twitter for example when someone talks about menstruation,

it becomes like people are outraged by it. And I know in certain cultures that like, I mean, when I went to Japan, I bought menstruation products out there. They took them off the counter because I was like, I don't care. I just put them on the counter. They took them off and I put them in a black bag

so no one can see what you've bought. And I was like, okay, well, that's your cultural thing, but I would never expect it here. And people think period poverty doesn't exist in the UK. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it definitely happens here. So I think there are some supermarket schemes

where you can go and ask for products if you can't afford them, which is brilliant. Access to products, most important thing. But you have to use a code word. So I forget which name it is, but you say, oh, I need, I'm making it up, but Sandra.

And they'll give you a discreet bag of products to take away so that no one can see what you've asked for. Now, I am all for people being able to- Hi, I'm Richard Karn. And you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket Hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here, and it's a total game changer. Old-fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's Pocket Pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home.

When you're all done, this rust-proof anti-burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus, your super light and ultra-durable pocket hose Copperhead is backed with a 10-year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what, an exciting exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time, you can get a free pocket pivot and their 10-pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size Copperhead hose. Just text WATER to 64000. That's WATER to 64000 for your two free gifts with purchase. W-A-T-E-R to 64000.

By texting 64000, you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Hose. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply. Available at pockethose.com slash terms. Hi, I'm Richard Karn, and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket Hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here, and it's a total game changer. Old-fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's Pocket Pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust-proof anti-burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size

for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus, your super light and ultra durable pocket hose copperhead is backed with a 10-year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what, an exciting exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time,

you can get a free pocket pivot and their 10-pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size copperhead hose. Just text WATER to 64000. That's WAT water to 64 000 for your two free gifts with purchase w-a-t-e-r to 64 000 by texting 64 000 you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from pocket hose message and data rates may apply no purchase required terms apply available at pocket hose dot com slash terms get the products they need but the fact that we've built this society that means people have to use code words and then

hide the products away for something that is entirely normal not dirty and actually responsible for life on the planet you know you know periods are essentially linked to human biology yet we've developed this really shameful culture and of course it's an extension of sexism the patriarchy controlling bodies of women and people who menstruate it's another means of minimizing sanitizing like keeping us quiet i think as well when people that menstruate openly talk about symptoms that come with with your period unfortunately there are a long list of symptoms. But I do think adverts for these products do minimize. Like when people that don't menstruate see those adverts,

they're like, oh, it must be nothing because she's riding a horse or she's going swimming. And I'm like, I've never wanted to ride a horse when I'm not on my period, let alone when I am. Yeah, yeah. And I think pain is such an interesting area. We, you know, we're not disabled by periods, or we certainly shouldn't be anyway. And if people are experiencing

period pain that is disabling, you know, that takes you out every single month, then that is a sign that something else is going on. And I think that's another problem often that people can't reach out for the support they need because their pain has been minimized they've been told oh it's fine it's all just it's all just part of it and you have to learn to live with it most definitely not true but that leads to things like the diagnosis time for things like endometriosis being years I mean I think it's nine years currently for endometriosis to be fully diagnosed. So nine years people are living with pain. So it's a real issue. So it has real consequences that we don't talk about those things. Severe pain should always be investigated.

Blood Eat Your Period has some great tips on how to advocate for yourself at the doctors. We've just recently put that on our social media. We'll get it on our website as well. So you can go and have informed conversations where you can advocate for yourself and your needs. I wish we didn't have to provide that kind of support for people, but we do. So yeah, if you are having severe pain that is taking you out all the time, that needs investigating. Some period pain, I'm incredibly lucky I don't have a menstrual health condition, but I need ibuprofen every single month. That's fairly standard. And it's fairly standard for a lot of the women and people who have periods who I meet, a lot of the stories we hear. But I'm not sure that's really understood by people who don't have periods. And even like,

if you do have that really fortunate experience of periods, I think it's vital to understand that other people might have completely different ones. Yeah. So this is something we had lots about when we did our research for our Bloody Good Employers program, that even if you're a female manager, say, you're in quite a senior position, you're looking after a team. If you have your specific experience of periods and you don't need more than an ibuprofen or two every month, but you never talk about periods with anyone else because you know shame and stigma and taboo and it's not professional in the workplace how how could you support someone who potentially has

endometriosis or heavy bleeding or needs the flexibility of working from home or more frequent breaks once a month you know you can't understand those unless you actually talk about it no and i think people fail to realize that when it's when you're costing up a period it's not just the items that you need to menstruate it's also the ibuprofen the chocolate bar yeah if like well i mean it's not the necessity but you know things like that that you you need to make yourself feel better yeah it all adds up. And when you're doing it monthly as well. Yes. And then there are other items as well. Underwear. Yes.

Cleaning your underwear and your bedsheets, replacing them. Those are common occurrences for people who have periods. And we're actually doing a project at the moment, trying to factor in all of those costs so we could get an accurate picture of what a lifetime cost of a period will be. Because it's not just products and those are expensive enough. It's all those other things. And then if you start to factor in, oh, actually, I have to take time off school or work. So I've got missed income potentially as well. Then it's huge. It's really huge. Which when you're in the middle of a cost of living crisis, so all those budgets are under pressure from all directions.

I mean, this is the reality of period poverty and it's why we need to address it and not pretend it doesn't exist. The first time I ever learned about period poverty was when I'd heard about girls missing school or people that menstruate missing school because they couldn't afford yeah the items to be able to menstruate in public yes essentially and i think that's where that's what that have big repercussions down the line because if you're missing out school you're

you're going to lose out on those vital socialization skills and your education um i guess that that's probably why the educate like the education you guys provide is so important but then i think that a lot of people that don't realize that period is your period isn't just three days or five days in a month but it's a whole lifetime experience and you're you're gonna pay forever play catch up yeah to that unless somebody really steps in um i know that when we were in the news a lot, we were talking about COVID, especially during lockdowns and things.

People were always talking about, well, I've had a lot of experience of people talking about how it affects the genders differently and how women have come worse off for a lot of different reasons from the pandemic. What was Bloody Good Period's experience of working with menstruation

during the pandemic yeah i mean the demand went up hugely in the early days so that first lockdown where you know we weren't prepared for for the reality of what that was like we were supplying entire wards of nhs hospitals with period products for frontline workers because they were either working so many hours that they couldn't get the breaks or to leave to access period products and they're not provided in hospitals which again is crazy when you think about it or if frontline workers were making it to the shops they were finding there weren't any left because they were being stockpiled in much the same way that loo paper or pasta was. It's a bit crazy looking back. But, you know, if we needed a sign that these are essential,

then stockpiling is it. Yeah. Right? So we were supplying NHS frontline workers with period products. And that didn't last throughout the pandemic. It was in that really early stage. But I remember thinking, wow, this is a real sign of how essential these products are and how essential our work is and it shouldn't be we shouldn't be making that happen but it's a

gap because again it hasn't been factored in and then we saw that that pattern replicate just of increasing demand so many community support groups set up during COVID. People furloughed, unable to work, having to isolate. People with a lot of health conditions, often which can then have an effect on periods, were isolating and couldn't access period products, sometimes because of shortages, often because they couldn't afford them.

So we entirely changed our way of working during the pandemic to meet that need so we started sending products out directly to our partners rather than operating kind of a physical distribution system and I mean the small operations team we have it's two people they did an incredible job meeting that level of demand making our system work for the lockdown restrictions and actually that's something we've stuck with so we've got a really really efficient model that incredible job meeting that level of demand making our system work for the lockdown restrictions and actually that's something we've stuck with so we've got a really really efficient model that we're really proud of means we can get products all over the country we buy them in bulk we buy exactly the products that people request rather than giving the products people donate because

they are not always the same thing no guaranteed to Guaranteed to be new in date. Again, we had huge problems pre-COVID with people donating, you know, tatty pads that have been at the bottom of your handbag for a month, but also out-of-date tampons because lots of people don't know that tampons expire. I did not know that either. Tampons expire, check your dates. So we've got a really efficient model now

honed by lockdown. So, you know, it's good that silver linings have come out of it. But that's when we really saw demand starting to go up dramatically. So to have the cost of living crisis so soon after that, I mean, it's just really one crisis after another. And then, of course, on top of those crises, we support refugees. And there are so many crises around the world that people are fleeing from, that demand has gone up there as well. So in the last year, we've been supporting people from Ukraine, of course, but also from

Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sierra Leone, countries that are not in the news anymore, but the need is still there. Yeah, and i guess it's what well providing products people need as opposed to just whatever is donated is like yeah because everybody has a preference and it's a luxury for like i know that i'm privileged to be able to have my preference yeah in brand in like the way that you use them yeah and i think if i was in a situation where i had to change completely, I wouldn't feel comfortable. Absolutely.

And we always prioritize what the people who we're working with want, what their preferences are. They know themselves and their bodies and their periods. That's what matters most. So we run education sessions on the types of products that are available,

but we never say, and you should really use X, Y, and Z. z that is not our place and especially where we're talking to refugees for example being through indescribable trauma they do not want a charity lecturing them about the types of products they should be using that is their choice and we are here to facilitate that choice which is why buying the exact items direct and we get discounts, of course, while we're at it because we're liaising directly with the suppliers is a much better model.

Why do you think some members of the public get so angry about open conversations on menstruation? I mean, I think it really goes back to that shame and stigma. Do you remember at school? I certainly do. The boys being sent out of the room for the talk. So the girls can have the talk and the boys go and learn about something else.

That's probably a different podcast. I think it all stems, a lot of it from that, you know, and that is reinforced by those adverts, by our well-meaning older relatives reinforcing the things that they've been told, that it's something to be hidden away and don't tell people. And no, you can't possibly ask your dad, brother, partner to go and buy products for you. I mean, of course you can. I think everybody on this planet, if you don't have a period yourself you are at minimum going to care

for someone who does yeah so why wouldn't we all want to understand what's going on here but the culture that has been built up I mean goes back to that ultimate word patriarchy my daughter often asks me mommy what why is is this? I'm like, okay, patriarchy, but I should probably give you a more detailed answer. But ultimately, that's why. It's really, like starting this podcast, it really blows my mind the amount of things that go back to that one word. Yeah.

And this is just another thing to add on top of that. Yes. Huge pile already. I know like, even off camera, I was saying to you that I had a t-shirt on that was quoting somebody saying the taxpayer is not responsible for your period. And I wholly disagree with that statement because if the taxpayer can be responsible for contraception, which is a choice at the end of the day, why is there no responsibility on

something that i have no control over yes yeah these things are not optional they're not a luxury you can't opt out of it so let's build it into the way our society operates and the support we offer to our young people to people in school to the most vulnerable members of our society you know at the moment refugees and asylum seekers are not getting any support for the fact that they menstruate. So we might work with a family who have teenage daughters in the house.

There's no extra money to provide period products for them, even though lots of those people have also been through trauma, which means their periods are incredibly heavy. And we hear that a lot from the people we work with but it's just not part of the consideration we make and of course that's an active choice when we look at the

hostile environment that is being targeted at refugees and asylum seekers especially right now I think earlier you made a comment that was um that blew my mind about how there's a conversation about whether women should take contraception so they don't menstruate. Yeah. And I think that's a really unfair and big ask for somebody to do. Essentially saying that I would rather pump you with hormones than provide a piece,

it's essentially a piece of cotton just put in a really fancy way yeah yeah and i remember so this was a request we had from a magazine so to provide our expert comments okay on whether this was a way that women and people who menstruate could save money during the cost of living crisis go on the pill stop your periods hey presta you don't have to buy pads. And myself and another member of the team had to read it several times to check we were understanding that we really were being asked this because it felt like we slipped

into the handmaid's tale or something. I mean, hormonal contraception is a brilliant choice for some people, but it should always be that, a choice and an informed one because that has consequences as well. It should never be a way of controlling your body so that you can afford to exist that that's really wild when you start to think about it and not something we should be asking people to do in comparison to you're right the very simple

step of just making products more accessible for people i think it's as well when we're talking about it it blew my mind a little bit because surely providing contraception is far more expensive than it is at providing menstrual products. Yeah. And like this whole time we've been doing this podcast that's all I've been thinking about. I was like who it was probably somebody who doesn't menstruate that thought this was a good idea in the first place or even a possibility. But like I said to you, I don't, I'm not on any hormonal contraception because that's the best choice for me. And thinking about the difference between the two of us, like me on hormonal contraception was really bad for like my mental health. Yeah.

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64 000 by texting 64 000 you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from pocket hose message and data rates may apply no purchase required terms apply available at pocket hose.com slash terms so to be asked to do that against my own choice, like I keep saying, I'm very privileged to not have to be in that situation, but I couldn't imagine having that on top of a lot of things that people are already dealing with. Yeah.

And often that's a line we use a lot. We provide products so that people just have one less thing to worry about. Because if you are dealing with having to flee your home country because of war or you've lost your job because of the pandemic or your household budgets are under pressure because of the cost of living crisis to have to worry about managing your period on top of that it just shouldn't be an issue it is so we're here to get those products to people but it's quite a simple thing that you can provide and take that stress and worry away from people and it does cause stress

and worry no um we were talking about schools earlier we've had a real flurry of emails recently from parents who are saying their teenage daughters are not being allowed to leave class to change their period product. They are being told they need a medical note in order to leave class. A period is not a medical condition, it's just a reality. It has consequences because they're sitting there worried about leaking. And imagine if you do leak, what is going to happen next given all that shame and stigma that we've talked about? So what might you do next month? I just stay at home.

Yeah. I'm sat here like nodding my head because I can remember being in those exact same situations, especially like when the teacher doesn't menstruate, then doesn't understand like, well, you should have gone at this time. And it's like, well, I didn't decide that now it was gonna start. Exactly. And especially as a young person having periods, your cycles will be unpredictable to start off with. I can vouch for that. That's just a reality. It's how it works at the start

of the process. So you can't be held responsible for not knowing it was going to happen. It's what happens. Earlier, you were talking about how Bloody Good Periods now educate on the whole life cycle of the lifespan of your menstruation. And I said to you that I know nothing about menopause, apart from the fact it will happen at some point in my lifetime. Why is it so important that we also learn about menopause when we talk about menstruation? There's been such a focus, I think, on menopause recently. Lots of media conversations around it, lots of women who've experienced menopause or who are experiencing it talking about it. I think that's brilliant. We need to understand all the stuff that comes before it, as well as the end of that process, i.e. menopause. Just by understanding

what our bodies are doing, but also someone on my team came up with this amazing line about menopause stigma and that sense of shame about it, because that definitely exists. It's basically the same menstrual stigma that we've been talking about throughout with ageism on top. Yeah. Right. So we've got to tackle that because it is stopping women from working, from participating in society fully,

from being able to live a full life. If you look at rates of mental health issues, they peak amongst women going through menopause or in those years where they're likely to be going through menopause. We shouldn't be subjecting women to that. We can do stuff about this. And information, as we talked about, is one of the biggest things. I've had friends who are the same age as me be told, you can't possibly be going through menopause, you're too young. No, no, no, this is the age I am is precisely the right age for perimenopause, that period of up to 10 years before your period stop to be experiencing symptoms.

If we're dismissing women again and saying, oh no, you're too young. It's just, you know, life. Then we're not taking them seriously. We're not helping them make changes, lifestyle changes, potentially HRT, if that works for some people, that could really help. And then you're pushing women out of society. And that's not what anybody needs. That's not good for anybody, male or female. I guess it's when you're talking to someone that supposedly loves and cares for you and they're saying, oh, you know, you're too young,

that stops you also getting medical help, right? Yes, exactly. And you're just entering or forcing people that menstruate into a very vicious cycle. Yeah. And even when I was younger, my mum, she won't mind me saying this,

when my mum was going through the pre-menopausal stage, I just didn't understand. And there was only other two men in my house who definitely didn't understand. And there was only other two men in my house who definitely didn't understand. And I felt guilty and helpless because I didn't know what to do. So what can somebody do to support somebody that is potentially going through that menopause stage in their life? I think openness is just so important and being able to ask for the help and support and flexibility you need.

So something we do all the time at Bloody Good Period, yes, we're a small team, but we just talk to each other all the time. And we often work around things like, let me think of an example. I'm not a morning person. I have kids, so I have to be, I don't have a choice. But I would really rather not do a meeting before 10am if I can help it. That is my personal preference.

And other members of the team will have other preferences. When we're in a particular stage of our cycle or a particular stage of our hormonal journey, like menopause, those kind of preferences or needs for how we get the best out of our lives are going to be amplified so we've got to be able to trust ourselves to know those things to ask for support in accommodating them and work with the people around us whether that's professionally

or with our families you know my husband knows not to talk to me before 10 a.m um to to make life work in the best possible way rather than going oh well I just have to suck it up and get on with it because that's how life is we can shape life to be how we need it to be to work for us and everyone's going to be different but understanding how our hormones and our bodies are working is such a key part of that and if we don't talk about it what chance have we got of really designing a life that works what would you say to businesses that don't necessarily believe that learning about menstruation is important for their inclusion policies i mean they're totally wrong it's so interesting everything we've talked about today

really underlines this thing we often say at bgp that periods are like a lens or a gateway to so many other issues about equality and equity making sure that people's needs are factored into how we set up workplaces for example and that's why we have developed our Bloody Good Employers programme so that we can improve the culture the communications and policies around periods because it has benefits for everybody, but it can start to help you really think about, are we being inclusive of everyone? Are we meeting everybody's needs? Do we have flexible working for women and people who menstruate, but also for people who don't menstruate because flexible working has benefits for everybody too.

So it's a starting point, but it opens up so many other conversations obviously international women's day is coming up and it is a massive part of like the activism calendar and it's it's integral for a lot of women to celebrate you know the history and the struggles that we've had but one of my concerns every year when it comes around is that we pick it up on international women's day and we drop it off on the 9th of march yeah what would you how can we or people in general be better allies to people who menstruate and help them past and before the 8th of March? Yeah, I think it's a really important question. You can't solve all the issues on one day. And this work has to happen every single day. So I think there's lots of things you can do. You'll see loads of stuff all over social media

for International Women's Day, but use that to get inspired and educated about all the different things you can do to be an ally. Follow us on social media. I know that sounds really simple and maybe non-effective, but actually you can learn incredible things. So that guide to how to advocate for yourself at the doctors, the thing we were talking about earlier

that tampons have expiry dates, that is the kind of thing you'll find on our social media and then you can go tell everyone you can start these conversations and that has genuine power people talking about periods i i really think every conversation just starts to chip away at that shame and that stigma and those messages from the ads about not telling anyone and hiding it away it all has this amazing kind of snowball effect so learn and then share i think is so powerful um there are also lots of campaigning things you can do so this year bloody good period will be calling on the government to make period equity so access to products but also to the right care and support and education part of what they are pledging to do for the future

so there'll be lots more campaigning actions that we'll be talking about in coming months so come and follow us sign up to our email list you can find out about the ways you can help make sure that this is on the agenda not just shoved to the side and whispered about and then of course if you are in a position to donate it makes such a massive difference it does not have to be a huge amount of money because we know times are tough for everybody but we take donations and turn them into pads for people who can't access them we've got the efficient model that we talked about earlier. And right now when we're meeting these just crazy levels of demand, I think unprecedented is an overused word. Yeah. But I can't actually think of a better one. It is unprecedented,

the levels of need that we're seeing because people are under such pressure. So if you're in a position to help, we would love that. But sharing and talking is so important as well. If somebody is listening and feels like they're not being supported with their menstruation what advice would you give them and we we don't give individual advice maybe i might need to um just make that really clear but i'm trying to think best way to answer that I think it is about empowering yourself with information so there is lots there are lots of sources of information out there we've got links on our website where you can find out more things about what's going on in your body every month the questions you need to be asking and how to have the best possible relationship

say with your doctor if you need to go and ask for support how to have the best possible relationship, say, with your doctor if you need to go and ask for support, how to advocate for yourself. And I think rejecting that shame is really important as well. And that's hard. It really is. This is stuff that's really ingrained. And we need to treat ourselves with compassion as we do that and acknowledge that it's hard because we operate in this world. But there is nothing shameful about having a human body that does human things. And I think that's probably the starting point, like reject that shame, equip yourself with the information and access support like the guide that we have to get the support that you specifically need.

I think I probably worded that last question. No, that's right. I was more thinking about as well, if somebody is struggling with access. Access to products. To products. What's the best route to take, to be honest? I mean, there are lots of the community support groups, food banks, etc.

We're working hard to try and make sure that period products are factored into as many of those as we can. And there are other organizations doing similar work as well. So those can be your starting point. And if they're not providing period products, then ask them to look into doing that and you can give our name. We can't take on every single partner in the country without the money which is a really challenging position to be in and anyone you know involved in charity is in that tough situation right now but we want to help as many people as possible so those local groups are

probably your first starting point and then point them in our direction if they don't have the products there amazing i wanted to, I always finish off the podcast with a very similar question. Obviously, you know, the whole point of your job is to try and eventually make yourself redundant. Yeah.

But what would you say to people that, well, firstly are angry at the idea of being open about conversation on menstruation, but also that deny that period poverty is a big societal issue we have conversations at bloody good period every single day that underline the consequences of period poverty you know from people not having access to products and the stress and anxiety that causes, but also the physical realities, people overusing products,

people using really cheap products that cause infections. And then they have to go and get prescriptions, which is an extra cost. And of course, deal with the medical consequences of that. There are physical consequences. There are mental health consequences but there are bigger ones as well of you know things like we've heard about people living in hostile accommodation um who are seeking asylum bleeding on sheets because they have heavy menstrual bleeding and not being able to get clean sheets for a week. That is a deliberate part of the hostile environment that has been created by the government to deter asylum seekers for, well, no good reason.

This stuff has consequences. It is not just about whether you have a pad, it goes so much broader than that. And then when you factor in, you know, not being able to talk about this, the worry of, do I have a menstrual health condition that needs treatment? Am I in menopause? Do I need lifestyle changes or more support to enable me to participate fully in life and in society? Not talking about it has all of these consequences. So yes, it's about pads, but it's about all these other things too. And that's why we call for what we say is menstrual equity, where the simple fact of having a period doesn't disadvantage you,

doesn't hold you back in life. It doesn't stop you from doing things that people who don't have periods would not think twice about. So that's what we want, a world that is menstrually equitable for everybody. I think, do you know what? Even having a conversation with you,

I feel like I've learned so much. And it goes to show that even though I've had menstruation for, God, like 14 years, I'm still learning how my body works for me. So I just, I want to say I'm really grateful for your time and for teaching me. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for joining me. It's been great to talk to you.

Thanks for having me. Hi, I'm Richard Karn. And you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket H copperhead with pocket pivot is here, and it's a total game changer. Old-fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the copperhead's pocket pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust-proof anti-burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus, your super light and ultra durable pocket hose copperhead is backed with a 10-year warranty.

What could be better than that? I'll tell you what, an exciting exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time, you can get a free pocket pivot and their 10-pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size copperhead hose. Just text WATER to 64000. That that's water to 64 000 for your two free gifts with purchase w-a-t-e-r to 64 000 by texting 64 000 you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from pocket hose message and data rates may apply no purchase required terms apply available at pocket hose.com slash terms