Global News Podcast - Democratic National Convention begins in Chicago

Episode Date: August 20, 2024

Kamala Harris will be officially confirmed as party's presidential candidate at the event but pro-Palestinian demonstrations threaten to disrupt the unity message. Also: UK tech tycoon Mike Lynch among missing after yacht sinks off the coast of Sicily, and the talk show host Phil Donahue dies aged 88.

Hello, this is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service, with reports and analysis from across the world. The latest news seven days a week. BBC World Service podcasts are supported by advertising. If you're hearing this, you're probably already listening to BBC's award-winning news podcasts. But did you know that you can listen to them without ads? Get current affairs podcasts like Thank you. Amazon Music with a Prime membership. Spend less time on ads and more time with BBC Podcasts. This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Jackie Leonard and in the early hours of Tuesday, the 20th of August, these are our main stories.

Thousands of pro-Palestinian protesters gathered in Chicago, where Kamala Harris is set to be formally confirmed this week as the Democratic presidential candidate. The U.S. Secretary of State says Israel has accepted what he called an American bridging proposal for a ceasefire deal in Gaza, and it's now up to Hamas to agree to it. And President Zelensky says his troops have now taken control of over 1,200 square kilometers of Russian territory. Also in this podcast. Thank you very much. Well, thank you. I am flattered. You may be seated.

The pioneering U.S. television talk show host Phil Donahue has died at the age of 88. And we begin in the US city of Chicago. Kamala, Kamala, you can't hide. Kamala, Kamala, you can't hide. You're supporting genocide! You're supporting genocide! Pro-Palestinian protesters marched on Monday to the venue of the Democratic National Convention. The four-day event will see Kamala Harris formally confirmed as the party's presidential candidate. But there are concerns that divisions over the war in Gaza could undermine party unity. Ms Harris is expected to join President Biden on stage when he'll deliver the keynote address of the convention's opening night. At a media briefing ahead of the convention,

the Democratic Senator Chris Coons said Kamala Harris was the perfect choice to succeed Joe Biden. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have fought tirelessly for the American middle class to reduce costs. And his trusted Vice President Kamala Harris is the right person to carry forward that fight. And this week is about celebrating what it means to be for the people. Such large gatherings are a time to show off party unity. But there are concerns that divisions over the war in Gaza could undermine it.

Protests are planned for every day of the convention. Carrying Palestinian flags, hundreds marched towards a rally at Union Park. It's a bitter shame that we consider ourselves that a nation of freedom of the world and the liberators of the world when we're the ones supporting this genocide. It's so sad. Our tax dollars are being used to kill children, women, elderly, millions of destroyed homes. Enough is enough. We heard more from our correspondent Emma Vardy, who's in Chicago. So the first day of the convention is all about Joe Biden. It is. It's very symbolic, really. This

is where he sort of hands the torch over to Kamala Harris. But things have happened so quickly. It's less than a month since Joe Biden pulled out. And this then Kamala Harris. But things have happened so quickly. It's less than a month since Joe Biden pulled out. And this then Kamala Harris became the nominee. Of course, Joe Biden will be appearing tonight at something he thought he was going to be here being the Democrats nominee to fight for a second term. What he's going to have to do is perhaps talk about some of his own accomplishments. But his focus is going to have to be arguing why he believes Kamala Harris must beat Donald Trump. Democrats will want to see Joe Biden rallying behind her and helping to make the case against Donald Trump. Of course, we've heard Joe Biden say many times

he believes Donald Trump is a threat to democracy. So expect to hear a bit more of that tonight. But this is all part of trying to keep that feel-good momentum going for Kamala Harris, because since Joe Biden pulled out and she became the Democrats' nominee, the party's seen a real reversal in the polls. Polls now suggesting that Democrats had been behind Donald Trump leading up to this, but now they appear to have overtaken them in the polls. And now Kamala Harris appears to be beating Donald Trump in some of the key swing states. So people will be watching that very closely too.

And they'll be hoping that the convention provides another big moment to drum up even more support for Kamala Harris, who people are really only just getting to know because she has been thrust into this position so fast. Now, conventions are generally a time to show off party unity, but we have heard from pro-Palestinian protesters who are making their voices heard just how united is the party? Well, the war in Gaza and the war between Gaza and Israel

is certainly perhaps the most difficult issue for Kamala Harris. It's been a difficult issue for the Democrats because a lot of natural Democratic voters, a lot of younger voters who would have naturally supported Democrats perhaps, in fact, have been really angry with Joe Biden's handling of the war in Gaza. And there's lots of people demonstrating here, arguing that Washington should pull back its support for Israel. So Kamala Harris has this opportunity to try to draw some sort of nuance between her position and Joe Biden's that might help placate some voters who are angry about Joe Biden's handling of the war in Gaza.

But broadly, we know she supports his position. There's not a lot she can do to break away from that. It is perhaps the most difficult issue for Democrats at the moment. And the protests outside here just put even more of a focus on that. That was Emma Vardy in Chicago. Well, President Biden's address is the big event at the convention. In essence, it's his farewell to the Democratic Party. Chris Whipple is the author of the Biden biography, The Fight of His Life, inside Joe Biden's White House. He's in Chicago for the Democratic National Convention. Paul Henley began by asking him, what does he make

of the position that if people's revulsion at what's happening in Gaza stops them turning out to vote, it's on this US government? If that should take place, then yes, indeed, it would presumably be on Kamala Harris and Biden and their failure to really address that issue. I don't think it's going to be such a big factor. You know, this is not 1968. There's palpable excitement here in Chicago, tremendous security, I can tell you. But I think that barring some really unexpectedly disruptive protests against Gaza, I see mostly nothing but upside for Joe Biden tonight. I think he's going to bask in the adulation of his party. Lyndon Johnson couldn't come anywhere near Chicago in 1968 and desperately wanted to. But Biden

really will be celebrated tonight, I think, for an impressive record as a one-term president. He's going to have a chance to brag about all of the considerable achievements of his first term. Then he needs, of course, to tee up Kamala Harris as the perfect person to carry the torch from here and to help to finish the job, as he likes to put it. He'll delineate what he sees as the existential stakes of this election and the danger that Donald Trump represents. And I think if he can do all that with a sense of humor, I think it's going to be a great night for Joe Biden. Your book's called The Fight of His Life. Why do you think that his time in the White House has been such a struggle? Well, you know, you're going to look at Joe Biden's entire life as a kind of a fight,

a fight against adversity and bad luck. And he certainly had a long and tumultuous career, often defied the odds and came back. Nobody thought he would be elected in 2020 after the Iowa caucus and the New Hampshire primary, but he defied all the skeptics and won the presidency. He ultimately lost his last battle, which was to stay in office and stay on the ticket. And I think that's a very, that was a bitter pill for Joe Biden to swallow. Chris Whipple, the author of the Biden biography, The Fight of His Life, inside Joe Biden's White House. The US Secretary of State says it's up to Hamas to agree to a ceasefire in Gaza now that Israel has approved a proposal aimed at bridging the divide between the two sides.

Antony Blinken was speaking after talks in Tel Aviv. Israel accepts the bridging proposal. It's now incumbent on Hamas to do the same. And then the parties, with the help of the mediators, have to come together and complete the process of reaching clear understandings about how they'll implement the commitments. Gil Dickman's cousin is still being held by Hamas following the October 7th attacks. He told the BBC that Israel must accept a deal soon and it's the only way to stop the bloodshed. I think most of the Israelis are actually supporting your deal

right now. And I really hope that this negotiation is not only going to succeed, but that it's going to happen quickly because time is of the essence and we're not going to lose hope. We're not going to give up. We must make sure that this chance is seized right now. And that's a view shared by at least some of the people in Gaza. First, we appeal to the mediators to exert more pressure on both sides in order to put an end to this war. We're really tired and we no longer have the energy to bear more homelessness, killing and destruction. We can't bear this suffering. We also want to tell both sides, whether it's Hamas or Israel, that enough is enough. Our correspondent Wira Davis is in Jerusalem. So Benjamin Netanyahu has accepted a US proposal to bridge gaps between Israel and Hamas. So what does that mean?

The first thing it means is it puts the ball firmly in Hamas's court. This doesn't mean that we're agreeing a peace deal. This doesn't mean that we're agreeing a peace deal. This doesn't mean the hostages are going to be released any time soon. But it means that Mr Netanyahu has agreed to the next stage forward, and that is a complicated framework which would ultimately, hopefully, lead to a peace deal. And after this two-and-a-half, three-hour meeting, Mr Netanyahu has apparently agreed to these American bridging proposals. But there are sticking points, and there are key sticking points. What level of Israeli military presence would remain in Gaza, particularly in southern Gaza, in the event of a

deal? What freedom of movement would there be for Palestinians within Gaza to return to their home areas in the event of a deal? And what Palestinian prisoners would be released in exchange for the Israeli hostages. Those haven't been dealt with yet, but the Israelis appear to have agreed to move forward to the next stage. They've long accused Hamas of not wanting to do that, of putting obstacles in the way of a peace deal. Certainly Hamas's new leadership, which is based in Gaza, has expressed his opposition so far to what was proposed last week in Qatar.

But it appears that this American pressure on all sides, you know, it's almost the last chance saloon, according to Secretary Blinken. There does appear to have been some progress on the Israeli side, but Mr Blinken suggested that it was now up to Hamas to agree to move on to the next stage as well. So what happens next? Mr Blinken goes on to northern Egypt. He'll then go to Qatar. And this is all part of this process of achieving some sort of progress, no matter how small.

And the reason for that, and again Mr Blinken has made that abundantly clear, is that he is worried that if there's no progress in the talks between Israel and Hamas, that this much feared escalation into a regional conflict could certainly happen. And that's because, of course, Iran and Hezbollah have threatened to retaliate for assassinations, presumably by Israel, of senior Hamas and Hezbollah figures on their territory in recent weeks. And any sign of progress on the ground, according to the Americans and the Qataris and the Egyptians, is good because it averts, hopefully, an escalation, a wider escalation of this conflict. We're a Davis in Jerusalem. President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine has called on his allies to

lift restrictions on the use of long-range weapons to help strike deep into Russia. The request came on the same day that Mr Zelensky said his forces were now in control of more than 1,250 square kilometres of territory in Russia's Kursk region, including 92 settlements. It's been more than two weeks since Ukraine launched its incursion. And as BBC Monitoring's Russian editor Vitaly Shevchenko told us, he says he didn't tip his allies off in advance. Well, the thing that struck me was that Mr. Zelensky said that Ukraine had not told its Western allies about the incursion into Russia's Kursk region. He said, and I quote,

many people around the world would have not believed it was possible and it would have crossed the reddest line there is. That's why no one knew about our preparations. To speak about his mood, he seemed to be upbeat and he said the world is shedding naive illusions. That's the phrase he used about Russia, about how Russia used its red lines, harmed Ukraine's defence. So this tells us something about the objectives that the Kursk incursion seems to pursue. Mr. Zelensky also wants allies to give Ukraine long-range missiles to strike further into Russia. Are they likely to oblige and how worried will Mr. Putin be?

On the one hand, this is what Ukraine has been asking for for months and that permission has not been granted yet. On the other hand, the incursion into Russia's Kursk region redefines many things. We've seen during this conflict that initially the West was reluctant to give Ukraine tanks and missiles wherever they may be used. And then Ukraine got that and F-16 fighter jets. So that's what Ukraine is hoping for that by showing that even when Ukrainian forces are fighting inside Russia, there's been no massive escalation by Russia. The message to the West is don't be afraid of an escalation by Russia. So Ukraine will be hoping that that permission to use sophisticated long-range West missiles against targets in Russia would be granted. That was Vitaly Shevchenko. So what impact is Ukraine's ongoing incursion

having on the economy in Russia? Here's our Russia editor, Steve Rosenberg. I think it's fair to say that in terms of everyday life here, the war isn't affecting Russians as much as some had predicted it would, right? Two and a half years ago, when there was that wave of Western sanctions hitting Russia. So the Russian economy did not collapse. Yes, some Western goods have disappeared from the shops, a lot of Western stores have shut, but the supermarkets here are still very well stocked. A lot of Chinese products now, Chinese mobile phones, PCs and washing machines and microwaves, and Chinese cars instead of European ones. Prices have jumped considerably, so inflation's a problem right now,

but the economy as a whole is growing. It's forecast to grow, I think, 3% this year, and that's being fuelled by spending on the war. So you've got factories working round the clock, making missiles and ammunition, serving the military-industrial sector, this war economy. But that creates big problems down the road for Russia, what happens when the war ends. It's there, of course, in the TV bulletins, in the newspapers, but it's not always top story

or front page news anymore. So for example, on the front page of Russia's most popular tabloid today, there's a spy story and a story about fishing. And the Russian government paper today on its front page has a story about the Russian gas industry. You can find articles about the war inside, but it's not staring you in the face. And I think it's a conscious decision by the authorities not to panic Russians, but to get them used to the fact that this so-called special military operation is going on in the background. It's now routine. But then suddenly you have this astonishing development, right? the Ukrainian incursion, which is far from routine, which is causing unease and alarm in Russian society, and doesn't fit at all the pattern of routinisation. That was Steve Rosenberg.

In the early hours of Monday morning, during an intense storm, a phenomenon known as a water spout overwhelmed a luxury yacht off the coast of the Italian island of Sicily. 22 people were on board, one body has been recovered and 15 survivors have been found, including a baby saved from the waves by her mother. But six people are missing, among them the British technology entrepreneur Mike Lynch. Mark Lowen reports. Here in Porticello in Sicily, an operation to rescue survivors has become one to retrieve the dead. It was before dawn when the Bayesian, a luxury British-flagged superyacht that won awards for its design, became a death trap. A violent storm prompted a water spout, a tornado-like cloud that engulfed the ship, reportedly breaking its mast and capsizing it as it was moored off the Sicilian port.

Fifteen of the 22 on board were rescued. Others, British, American, Canadian, weren't so lucky. Carsten Borner, the captain of a boat that was nearby at the time, helped rescue some of the survivors. We saw a red flare, so my first mate and I went to the position and we found this life raft drifting with 15 people inside. Four people injured, three heavy injured, and we brought them to our ship. The wreckage of the Bayesian yacht is now 50 metres underwater on the seabed where the search operation is focused. We've watched as divers have returned to shore for the night.

A local fisherman, Fabio Cefalu, was already working when the storm hit and spoke of what it left in its wake. We were down by the boat waiting for the sailors to go on a fishing trip. I saw these flashes of lightning and I didn't like the sky. So we stopped inside the docks and were waiting for the disturbance to pass. At around four or five o'clock it hit the town of Portocello, the water spout. There was a lot of fear in the harbour. Among those missing is the British tech multimillionaire Mike Lynch

and his 18-year-old daughter Hannah. His wife, who was rescued, is listed as the yacht company's owner. Survivors have been taken to local hospitals. One British woman told of holding her one-year-old baby, who also survived, above the water with all her strength. All I could hear around me, she said, were the screams of others. Mark Lowen. Well, Mike Lynch was recently acquitted of multi-billion dollar fraud charges in the United States related to the sale of his software company, Autonomy. It's a story which the BBC has reported on extensively,

both on the World Service and our domestic sister service, Radio 4. Here's our technology editor, Zoe Kleinman. Mike Lynch has had a rollercoaster career. He was once described as Britain's Bill Gates, and his software firm Autonomy, which claimed to be able to get data from phone calls and emails, was triumphantly sold to the US tech giant Hewlett-Packard for an at-the-time eye-watering $11 billion in 2011.

But a short while later, HP accused Mr Lynch and his team of falsely inflating the value of the firm and wrote off nearly $9 billion of its investment. Years of legal action followed, and he was eventually extradited to the US to face 15 charges of fraud. In July, the Cambridge graduate was dramatically acquitted after representing himself in court. He said he wanted to spend more time with his family and get back to work. He was also

reported to be in line for a £300 million payout from the recent sale of the UK cyber security firm Darktrace, which he co-founded. At the beginning of August, Mr Lynch told Radio 4 that he believed being wealthy had helped him navigate the legal system. The reason I'm sitting here, let's be honest, is not only because, coming back to what I was saying, I was ultra-innocent and perhaps have had experience of handling complex situations because of what I do, but because I had enough money to not be swept away by the process that's set up to sweep you away. His chief financial officer did serve a prison sentence following a separate trial. The software tool Autonomy developed used a statistical method known as Bayesian inference. It's based on an 18th century theory and helps forecasters predict outcomes more reliably.

It's still used in AI tools today. It's also the name of the luxury yacht where Mike Lynch was last seen. Zoe Kleinman. Still to come. Long Covid, it's not just a single disease because the virus itself affects pretty much all the organs of the body, the heart, the lungs, the immune system, the brain, the kidneys. An alarming report in Australia on the economic impact of long Covid. Thank you. Amazon Music with a Prime membership. Spend less time on ads and more time with BBC Podcasts. Since mass social protests erupted in Nicaragua in 2018,

Daniel Ortega's government has outlawed thousands of civic groups. Now, in the latest move against non-governmental organisations, a further 1,500 such groups have been shut down. Human rights organizations say the government of Daniel Ortega banned the NGOs because it views them as hostile. America's regional editor is Clitia Sala. These groups are accused of failing to report their finances. But what's special, what's different about this announcement is that it was the single largest targeting of NGOs to date. We've said like 1,500 NGOs were basically outlawed.

And I've taken a look at the list published by the Nicaraguan government. It's religious groups, some Catholic, some evangelical, but also like sports groups, business associations, all sorts of different groups. And they will all face now confiscation of property too. We must say that Nicaragua has been cracking down on civil and Catholic associations, as you were mentioning, since anti-government protests rocked the country in 2018. Basically what happened there is that President Ortega labelled those demonstrations as a coup attempt and claimed that opponents and some NGOs financed those demonstrations.

Since then, authorities have closed over 5,000 civil society groups and also private universities and media outlets. And you mentioned, obviously, there's a swathe of NGOs that are being affected, but particularly religious groups. Tell us a little bit more about why that is the case. Again, it all goes back to 2018, to those protests I was mentioning. So during those protests, some Catholic leaders gave protesters shelter in their churches. And the church also later tried to act as a mediator

between the government and the political opposition. So Ortega branded Catholic figures he saw as sympathetic to the opposition as terrorists, who had backed efforts to overthrow him. And dozens of religious figures were arrested or fled the country. Fast forward to 2023, the Vatican decided to close its embassy in Nicaragua and dozens of priests were kicked out of the country. Ortega's wife, and who's also the vice president, Rosario Murillo, has also described these religious groups as children of the devil

or agents of the devil who carry out spiritual terrorism. Klicia Sala, next to the Democratic Republic of Congo, which hopes to receive its first doses of Mpox vaccine by next week. This comes days after the global vaccine group Gavi said it had up to half a billion dollars to spend on getting the shots to countries affected by the escalating outbreak. The government says there have been more than 16,000 recorded cases of Mpox in the DRC this year, including over 500 deaths. Mpox is transmitted through close contact, including sexual contact. It causes flu-like symptoms and skin lesions. Will Ross reports. There are two recognised mpox vaccines, but apart from for clinical trials, they've not been available in Congo or elsewhere in the region where the disease has long been endemic. That's about to change. Officials in the capital Kinshasa say

the US has promised 50,000 doses and Japan has agreed to send three and a half million. Health Minister Samuel Roger Kamba is hopeful that the MPOC's vaccination campaign can begin next week, mostly targeting children. The infection rate amongst under 15-year-olds is high. There's another challenge, though. Some of the worst affected areas of Congo are also suffering from armed conflict. Will Ross. Now, in Monday's early podcast, we reported on the British government's plan to treat misogyny, prejudice or hatred against women as an extremist ideology. The UK's Interior Minister or Home Secretary Yvette Cooper said it was important to crack down on what she said was a

rise in hatred of women both online and on our streets. Surprising as it may seem, the story has created a significant reaction in China, where thousands of people on social media are calling for similar legislation. Our China media analyst is Kerry Allen. So today there are thousands of people talking on one of China's most popular social networks, Weibo, about these plans that are set to come to the UK. And it is very clear looking at polls and comments that people think that China should have similar laws. I mean, I've seen that there was a poll today that was posted asking people, what do you think of this idea? And the majority, I'm talking about 75, 80% of people have said, yeah, they think it's a

good idea. And some of the comments I'm seeing on Weibo are, for example, when will China learn? I mean, that's just one of the comments I've seen, and it's had more than 2,000 likes. So why has this struck such a chord in China? To what extent is misogyny an issue there? I would say the reason it's caused such a stir is because women across China still feel very subservient in Chinese society. There's a feeling that in the workplace, for example, they're not able to rise through the ranks.

Also, I think one thing that's very important to know is that only in 2015, so not that long ago, China introduced domestic violence laws. And so violence against women was, until very recently, actually very, very common. In fact, to the extent that I've seen people, women being attacked on the streets, and people just gather round and watch. They don't intervene. They judge it a private matter between a couple. And statistics, I should mention, for domestic violence,

they're estimated that one in four women in China have experienced some form of violence. And it's thought that obviously with COVID- lockdowns, that those statistics might have risen. And I say that's in person, there's also violence online, there's really a feeling that women can't say much or do much without being shot down by men. As you say, there has been a lot of interest and a lot of support for the idea that China could adopt something like this. How likely is that? I think it's very, very unlikely. I mean, one of the things that I've been seeing on Weibo today

is people commenting that in China, in Chinese government, men hold the power. There's a feeling that with the British Home Secretary Yvette Cooper being a woman, that only when women hold power can they be treated fairly. So, I mean, that's another comment I've seen on Weibo, people saying that, well, only when China gets female politicians into positions of high power can laws like this start to appear. Kerry Allen. A report in Australia on the impact of long COVID says that about a quarter of economic growth was wiped out in 2022. Long COVID causes a wide range of debilitating symptoms that some people endure for months or even years. Raina McIntyre is a professor of global biosecurity at the University of New South Wales and senior author of the study.

So how did they reach these figures? What we first did was estimate the amount of COVID infection in 2022 in Australia, looking at serological surveys, which is tests in the blood in the population, and we were able to estimate for each age group what percentage had been infected by that stage. And then we took the infection data and projected the incidence of long COVID based on published data on long COVID. And then the disease data that we modelled were put into an economic model to estimate the impact of that long COVID burden on economic losses. And that was based on people either not being able to work as a result of long COVID or working at a reduced capacity because of long COVID. From a population health point of view, a small percentage can have a

significant impact. Think about coronary artery disease, which is the leading cause of death and illness in the world. In Australia, for example, 2% of people have coronary artery disease. So when we estimate long COVID in the same order of magnitude, sort of 2% to 3%, but some estimates are up to 20%, you can see what a significant burden of disease it is. Long COVID, it's not just a single disease because the virus itself affects pretty much all the organs of the body, the heart, the lungs, the immune system, the brain, the kidneys, got the brain fog and the cognitive impairment, which has been shown in multiple studies now. So it's much more heterogeneous. And really, prevention of COVID itself is the most impactful thing that could be done to reduce the burden of

long COVID. Professor Rainer McIntyre, Professor of Global Biosecurity at the University of New South Wales. The pioneering American talk show host Phil Donoghue has died at the age of 88. He hosted more than 6,000 editions of the Phil Donoghue show from 1967 until its last nationwide broadcast in 1996. Ella Bicknell looks back at his life. Thank you very much. Well, thank you. I am flattered. You may be seated. Phil Donahue lit up American TV sets with his easy-breezy presenting style for almost three decades. His first broadcast in Dayton, Ohio in 1967, Donahue was the first presenter to interact with a studio audience,

letting them take the microphone to discuss the serious issues of the day. Two societies, one black, one white, both separate and unequal. The issue that won't go away, the issue is race. Coming up on this public television station. At its peak, the Donoghue show had an audience of 8 million viewers, watching him interview the likes of Nelson Mandela, Muhammad Ali, Elton John and Dolly Parton. He was a trailblazer for daytime presenters like Oprah Winfrey,

who presented him with a Lifetime Achievement Award, one of the 20 Emmys to his name. Personally, I want to thank you for opening the door so wide, wide enough for me to walk through, because had there not been a Phil Donoghue, I don't believe there could have been an Oprah. I personally thank you. Thank you. And in 2024, he was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by Joe Biden. Phil Donahue

will be remembered as the king of daytime television, especially by his huge female fan base. Perhaps Nora Ephron's assessment in her 1983 novel Heartburn sums it up best. If Sigmund Freud had watched Phil Donoghue, she wrote, he would never have wondered what women want. Ella Bicknell on the life of Phil Donoghue. And that's it from us for now, but there will be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later.

If you would like to comment on this edition or the topics covered in it, do please send us an email. The address is globalpodcast at bbc.co.uk. You can also find us on X at Global News Pod. This edition was mixed by Caroline Driscoll. The producer was Liam McSheffrey. Our editor is Karen Martin. I'm Jackie Leonard and until next time, goodbye.

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