Global News Podcast - Donald Trump confirmed as 47th US President

Episode Date: November 6, 2024

Donald Trump pledges to lead the US into a new golden age after winning US presidential election. We'll have world reaction and assess the potential impact on the global economy and environment.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. A search for the truth behind an international drug smuggling plot. How are we going to unravel this all? From the BBC World Service, this is World of Secrets, season five, Finding Mr. Fox. Search for World of Secrets wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Search for World of Secrets wherever you get your BBC podcasts. This is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service.

I'm Paul Moss and at 12 Hours GMT on Wednesday the 6th of November, Donald Trump has been confirmed as the 47th President of the United States, his supporters reacting with jubilation. We'll have the full story from the US plus reaction from around the world, including China, Russia, the Middle East and Ukraine. We'll also consider what a second Trump term will mean for the global economy and for climate change. In the end, it wasn't close at all. Donald Trump has staged one of the biggest political comebacks in US history. He not only won in the Electoral College, but also looks like winning the popular vote. His Republican Party also has control of the Senate and it's on course to win the House.

With Trump appointed judges dominating the Supreme Court, it gives the incoming president a very powerful mandate for change and the ability to implement it. Here was Mr Trump addressing supporters at his campaign headquarters in Florida. This will truly be the golden age of America. That's what we have to have. This is a magnificent victory for the American people. We've been through so much together, and today you showed up in record numbers to deliver a victory like no other. This was something special, and we're going to pay you back.

We're going to do the best job. We're gonna do the best job. We're gonna turn it around. It's gotta be turned around. It's gotta be turned around fast. And this will forever be remembered as the day the American people regained control of their country. And it's time to put the divisions of the past four years behind us.

It's time to unite. And of the past four years behind us. It's time to unite. And we're going to try. We're going to try. We have to try. And it's going to happen. Success will bring us together. America's future will be bigger, better, bolder, richer, safer and stronger than it has ever

been before. God bless you and God bless America. Thank you very much. Mr. Trump's win is bigger than when he was last elected president. All the more notable given that since then he's become a convicted felon, faced numerous lawsuits, survived two impeachments and has been accused of supporting the January 6th riots. Many of those who worked in the first Trump administration have spoken out against him. His longest serving Chief of Staff, General John Kelly, described him as a fascist.

And his former defence secretary, Mark Esper, said, I'm not sure we can survive another four years of Donald Trump. But his supporters were jubilant. Great, Trump won, awesome. The country really needed Trump to win because it was going in a very wrong direction. The world is obviously a super unstable place right now. Everything happening in the Middle East, the stuff in Eastern Europe. So I think that he has a lot of really solid plans in place. And I think the thing that's most helpful about him is the relationships that he maintains with these foreign leaders.

Yes, I voted for Trump and I feel good with the numbers. I've got my fingers crossed. So, joy for Donald Trump and his base, but for Kamala Harris voters it was a chastening night. Earlier in the evening, as results trickled in showing a Republican surge, Ms Harris cancelled her speech to the party faithful. Dejected Democrats streamed away early from the Harris headquarters at Howard University in Washington, D.C. So a split country and a fractured America. And for the losing side, the mood is gloomy. Giovanni

Chavez is president of the California Young Democrats. This is not normal. This is not normal at all. I remember days when a political gaffe could end someone's career. The outlier here is Donald Trump himself. Donald Trump is someone that's very, very divisive, someone that implemented a Muslim ban the last time he was in office, wanted to ban transgender folks from the military. Had his supporters stormed the Capitol, I think the only way we move on past this divisiveness and get back to a place where we can have friendly disagreements is when we move beyond Trump. And clearly we haven't done that now, but in four years I think we'll be in a much better place.

The BBC's Anna Foster was following every twist and turn of election night. She gave us her assessment. In the run up to this event, we talked about the polls, didn't we? And the fact that it was neck and neck and all through voting yesterday, everybody firmly believed that anything could happen. We watched people casting their votes. We heard all of the sort of the rhetoric that was coming from the candidates because remember how much effort and energy both of them poured into the state of Pennsylvania. You know, when I was in Philadelphia and Kamala Harris had her final rally there, there was a sense of optimism among both sets of supporters.

I think when Pennsylvania was called for Donald Trump in the very early hours of the morning here, that really felt like the moment that things shifted and changed. His supporters, absolutely jubilant today, particularly in those key swing states. They feel that they worked incredibly hard. They feel that the message that they were getting out, particularly on the economy, was going to resonate and it's been proved now that it did. There was a genuine belief among both camps

that it was actually closer than the results that we're seeing so far actually bear out. I think they really thought, and particularly Kamala Harris's team, they had a real sense of positivity. They felt that they were moving the dial and we saw that, didn't we? Sort of slip away as the night went on when she cancelled her planned appearance at the rally, when she said that she wouldn't be coming out and speaking today.

And, you know, we saw the mood and the tone in those two camps. But I think what is really interesting as well is how people will react to this, again, in those key swing states. When we got the exit poll data, which looks very much at trends at how people feel, not necessarily just who they voted for, we actually saw from both sides that this real sense of fear and nervousness about what would happen if the other side win. And I think you saw it in that speech that Donald Trump made when he talked about healing the country. I think there's this real schism, this fear that politics once again has opened up a huge divide across America and something now

needs to be done to pull people back together particularly as they wake up to this result. Anna Foster. Once he gets his feet under the table at the Oval Office, there are two international issues which perhaps will be at the top of the President's entree. The conflicts in the Middle East and Ukraine. We'll hear from our correspondent in Kiev in a moment, but first to our Chief International Correspondent Lise Doucet in Jerusalem. She spoke to Alex Ritzen. Noticeably, Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel was very quick off the mark in congratulating Donald Trump. And what was also noticeable was that this was not just a political message, it was a very warm personal one.

It was addressed to Donald and Melania Trump and signed off in true friendship, yours, Benjamin and Sarah Netanyahu, underlining that the two couples have in fact built up a very strong personal and indeed political relationship over many years. And it was noticeable too, that Prime Minister Netanyahu used almost the same phrase as Viktor Orbán of Hungary, another Donald Trump personal and political ally used talking about history's greatest comeback, exclamation mark mark these are two leaders who never hid the fact they very much wanted Donald Trump to be back in the White House the statement from Prime Minister Netanyahu as indeed the statement from Israeli opposition leaders all emphasize this

long-standing true friendship between the United States and Israel. That friendship would have endured the strategic partnership that we've seen in full display during the Gaza war and the wider war in the Middle East, whether or not it was Kamala Harris or Donald Trump. But there is a sense that it will be that Prime Minister Netanyahu will have an even freer hand now with Donald Trump about to enter the White House. And that was reflected in the opinion polls too with the all the polls showing the vast majority of Israelis believing that Donald Trump would be better for for Israel. And yet a

more muted reception from the Palestinians but the Palestinians an awful lot of them we saw it it, were voting, making a point of voting against Kamala Harris, those in the United States. In the United States and here and across the region there was a lot of indifference. There's been much criticism of President Biden's almost unconditional support for Israel's conduct in the war. And even though in recent months he has been more open in his criticism of the way too many civilians are dying, he was calling, Kamala Harris was repeatedly calling for a ceasefire and end to the killing of innocent civilians. But he never used the ultimate weapon that the United States have, and that is to cut off

arms supplies or even to suspend them. There was a very temporary suspension early on in the war. So across the region, certainly the view from the streets and some of the Arab leaders was that it doesn't matter who's in power. And in fact, we want to see the Biden team punished for backing Israel to the hilt, but there's a common thread across the reactions we've had so far from the Arab world, the leader of the UAE, the Emir of Qatar, President Sisi of Egypt, Jordan's King Abdullah,

all of them emphasize the long, decades old strategic partnership between their country and the United States. All of them say they hope they can work with the new president, second time in office, to bring peace to the region, to bring about security and stability. They also have their own, they can call up Donald Trump to a particular Gulf state, Saudi Arabia, very close relationship during President Trump's first term.

And they will use that pressure too to try to push him away from Israel and to urge him to try to Bring an end to this war and it was interesting how one of the first comments Israeli media picked up on in Trump's speech that he made which he basically he claimed victory was he pointed out He said I was seen as the man who would start wars, but I'm the man who will stop them There's certainly a feeling here among the Arabs and the Palestinians, they want him to stop the war in Gaza and in Lebanon. Leeds Doucet in Jerusalem. Donald Trump once accused the president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, of being the greatest salesman on earth for securing tens of billions of dollars in weapons and other military assistance from Washington. This February it will be three years since the war in Ukraine began.

And it's there that the impact of a Trump victory could be most keenly felt. During the campaign Donald Trump repeatedly stated that he would quickly end the war. But it remains unclear how or what peace would look like. Timofey Milyovanov is the president of the Kiev School of Economics and a former minister of economic development and trade. He's apprehensive. That's a new reality. No one knows, at least in Ukraine, what will happen. But the question is not what will happen, but what Ukraine and everyone else can do to adapt to this new reality. And we see that Zelensky administration himself, they moved very quickly

to state that they expect Trump to bring a just peace. So what's the mood like in Kiev? Our correspondent James Waterhouse is in the Ukrainian capital and describes a similar sense of uncertainty. As a few of MPs have suggested, no one is trying to predict what Donald Trump may do next. I think the majority view here was that they would have preferred Kamala Harris to be the next US president because it provided certainty. If you just look at what she had said over support continuing, you've heard what President Trump has said. And I think we've seen, despite being labelled as a salesman,

we're seeing President Zelensky make his pitch with an early congratulations, a message of congratulations for Donald Trump saying they had a great meeting, possibly a bit of language mirroring there, and he described Ukraine as being one of the strongest military powers in Europe and being committed to peace in the region, and he talked about the political and economic opportunities for the US in its continued partnership from the soldiers we've spoken to this morning. I think this highlights Ukraine's problem. One said they were feeling especially down on their way to their front line positions. In his words he said three years ago we thought

we would die through fighting without weapons. Turns out that was just postponed for three years. Another gave a more balanced view. He said, look, there are two scenarios. The first is that Donald Trump comes in and tells Russia, Vladimir Putin, you need to end this war with a ceasefire. And he forces Ukraine to do so by withdrawing support. And that leads to Russia advancing in the coming years, and in his words

destroying Ukraine in the long run. The second scenario which is more preferable is that Vladimir Putin declines the offer to negotiate and that potentially could make Donald Trump resort to either escalated support for Ukraine or more radical measures. So that is the juncture Ukraine is at. It is finally balanced for Ukraine geopolitically, not least with North Korea's growing involvement in this war. And so Kiev is now looking to the West, the US, the next US president, Donald Trump, on how he is going to respond, not just in terms of support for Ukraine, but in response to

North Korea's involvement as well. Ukraine can't keep fighting in the medium term without the help and weight from the US, which provides the most amount of support. It also gives political cover to other Western allies. And for Ukraine, if that support was to wane, there is a view that it would be seen as a betrayal. It's hard to see what security guarantees it could get in any kind of negotiation. Then Ukraine will feel in just as perilous position as it was in 2022. James Waterhouse in Kyiv.

The US dollar surged as Donald Trump's victory became clear. Traders apparently bet on potential tax cuts, tariffs and rising inflation under Donald Trump. And the cryptocurrency Bitcoin is also at a record high. Europe's main stock markets rallied at the start of trading. London, Paris and Frankfurt all rose by about 1% while the dollar has gone up against the pound in the euro. The BBC's economics editor Faisal Islah says that the unexpectedly quick results had come as a relief to many.

I think it's the absence of what they predicted in a way, which was that this uncertainty would go on for some time to come. And it's all been settled far more quickly than most of the popular wisdom had it, you know, that we'd be going through days of uncertainty and recounted votes and legal challenges and like that's all been settled far more quickly than expected. There's also the prospect of unified government. I'm not sure about that in terms of what happens in the House of Representatives, but you certainly have a clear direction with some of the absence, if you like, of likely or possible social unrest that was feared. But now there's lots of focus perhaps on what was less focused upon, which is exactly what a president Trump in his second term will do,

not just as regards to the US economy, which was clearly a fundamental factor in his second election, but also in the knock on it impact of some of these policies on global economics, which I would submit he will be profound and have capital cities all around the world kind of running to work out what the consequences will be, not just intended,

but unintended too about having the world's biggest economy go down a rather different economic path. Bipartisan analysts of the US deficits looked at both candidates' plans and said that both would increase borrowing by some amount. And this is against the context of a significant increase in US borrowing already and relatively large deficits going on for decades.

On top of that now, the new American president, President-elect Trump, is predicted to add $8 trillion to the US debt with his sort of slew of mainly corporate tax cuts. So that has affected US borrowing rates. We've seen those go up. When they go up, they kind of affect everybody. They affect the UK, for example, significantly. Will there be some sort of Federal Reserve response to that in terms of interest rates, also affect the whole world. Now the contrary argument here is something again that was not particularly well defined but maybe we should take much more seriously than it seemed at the time

which was that President Trump will get the likes of Elon Musk in for a Department of Government Efficiency and somehow cut two trillion out of US bureaucracy because that's what he's promised and if that happens that will be quite something. Faisal Islam. The re-election of Donald Trump to the White House will no doubt raise an alarm for environmentalists in the United States and beyond. The president-elect has previously called climate change an expensive hoax and he pulled America out of the Paris agreement, a deal which was drafted to strengthen the response to the threat of global warming and other weather changes. The BBC's environment

correspondent Matt McGrath gave us his assessment. He's been a long-term skeptic on climate change and climate action. He's been a booster, if you like, for fossil fuels and we saw in his previous term he pulled the US out of the Paris Agreement because of technical reasons he wasn't able to really give a force to that until a few months before the end of his presidency but this time around if he decides to go down that road again he'd be able to get the US out within a year. There's a big worry I think amongst climate activists and governments around the world that he might go further and take the US out of the UNFCCC. That's the underlying treaty signed in Rio in

1992 and approved by the US Senate which essentially puts the US at the forefront of all climate actions around the world, that he could go further and take the US out of that. So there are I think big worries today about how this will play out in the climate sphere. The worry is that Mr. Trump's climate policies are one thing the other aspect of that is are his energy policies whether or not he will try to boost oil production, whether he'll allow more gas pipelines, encourage drilling in Alaska, and whether or not there's a market in the world for that. What we've already seen this morning is that his election has seen share prices for wind turbine producers drop

because of fears that US commitments on building wind turbines offshore would be changed. So he may have an immediate impact on the share prices of companies. World leaders will be coming next week to Azerbaijan to gather for the next COP, the climate conference. You know, this is where policies are really set. Mr. Trump's team will not be there. It will be President Biden's team that will be there. But the shadow of Mr. Trump will be over that. And that will have and carry implications for US actions going forward over the next number of years.

Do environmentalists have any reasons to be optimistic? I think there's some practical reasons here that would indicate that Mr. Trump might temper his policies. For instance, President Biden passed the Inflation Reduction Act, the IRA as it's called, which has put huge money, close to a trillion dollars, into renewable energy and an awful lot of that money has gone to Republican areas in the United States. They are unlikely to want to see that act torn up. On the global stage it's perhaps a more complex picture. The US efforts to boost oil and gas production might run into opposition from other countries. The price mightn't be there to support

increased production but overall the worry would be is that President Trump's action could add billions of tons of extra carbon to the atmosphere at a time when the world is really on the cusp of significant temperature rises and action has never been more urgent. Matt McGrath. Still to come. When historians look back, if Mr Trump is as bad and as dangerous as potentially he could be to the international order, then I think historians will look back at this day and say it was when the post-1945 world order was the start of that order unraveling.

One analyst suggests Donald Trump's second presidency could be momentous and indeed mark a sea change for the world. My talent as an athlete is swimming long halls over the curvature of the earth. Life's Less Ordinary is the podcast with astonishing personal stories from across the globe. My past is very bad and I survived it. You have to tell the story. Expect the unexpected. All of a sudden the car exploded.

Lives Less Ordinary from the BBC World Service. Here's a thing that happened to me. Find it wherever you get your BBC podcasts. What will the Kremlin make of a second Donald Trump presidency? Will Russia feel emboldened to try to defeat Ukraine or will peace come in a matter of days as Mr Trump has promised? Maria Butina is a Russian politician and former entrepreneur. She was convicted in 2018 of acting as an unregistered foreign agent of Russia within the United States. What does she think about Donald Trump's comments about ending the war in Ukraine quickly?

Russia is very open and ready to negotiate with Ukraine and with all the parties who are involved in this conflict today. So we can greet their desire of him to be a peacemaker. That's wonderful. Everybody wants peace. Maria Butina. Donald Trump has been seen at times as sympathetic to Russia or at least more so than Joe Biden. He's previously spoken warmly about Vladimir Putin. But according to Vitaly Shevchenko, Russia editor at BBC

Monitoring, Mr. Putin will not exactly be giving a warm welcome to Donald Trump's White House return. It's difficult to expect a former KGB officer to have much respect, I'll put it this way, for the leader of a country which he sees as the main adversary. But there are things that are on the surface and there are things that emerge if you scratch the surface. So officially and this is the line that's been pushed by state media in Russia, Russia is prepared to work with whoever wins the election. It's about time constructive dialogue restarted. But if you look between the lines, if you scratch that surface, I can detect a feeling of jubilation, happiness. For example, Maria Zakharova, the spokesman for the Russian Foreign Ministry, this morning she quoted from Kamala Harris,

who in turn quoted from the Bible. The quote was about laughter and happiness that comes in the morning. So Maria Zakharova strongly suggested that now is the time for laughter and happiness and she said, hallelujah. So that reveals a certain happiness in the Kremlin about Donald Trump's victory. But then again, Donald Trump is hardly a predictable player. And this morning, the Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, has been speaking about it. And again, he reiterated the line about working with the new US president. But there's a certain circumspection.

Let's wait and see what kind of policies Donald Trump is going to pursue. All accusations of Russia meddling in US elections on behalf of either candidate are strongly rejected by Moscow. What we're hearing from Moscow is that, okay, we'll have to wait and see. But underneath that surface, there's a certain happiness. Is this bad news for Ukraine? That's what I'm reading in Ukrainian media. I've not heard or seen any Ukrainian who wants Ukraine to survive, let alone win this war,

who would say, I'm so happy that Donald Trump won. There's a certain resignation, there's a certain acceptance of the fact that Donald Trump's won. His rhetoric has strongly suggested that dramatic decrease in US assistance to Ukraine is a possibility and Ukrainians know how dependent they are on this assistance. They know that without it, Ukraine will have a miniscule chance of surviving this war. So they fear the worst, but the hope are the best. Vitaly Shevchenko.

Donald Trump may have had some harsh words for his Democratic Party opponents over the years, but he's also been severely critical of perceived opponents abroad, and none more so perhaps than China, which he's accused of dumping cheap products on American markets. China's response to Donald Trump's victory has been rather reserved. It said it will continue to work with the US on the basis of mutual respect. A foreign ministry spokesperson at a regular news conference said the relationship would continue in accordance with the principles of peaceful coexistence and win-win cooperation. So what does this

mean in practice? Our Asia Pacific regional editor Celia Hatton has been trying to read between the lines. You mentioned the idea of win-win cooperation, but actually I think there's a lot of fear in Beijing right now. The top body of Chinese leaders is actually meeting behind closed doors this week to try to settle on an economic stimulus package to help China's ailing economy and they've let it be widely known that they had two proposals planned, one if Harris won, one if Trump won. Now that Trump's won, it's widely expected that they're going to unleash a really big stimulus package to try to boost the Chinese economy. And that's in theory to counter what Donald Trump has said he wants to do on the campaign trail.

He let it be known that he was a big fan of tariffs, especially on Chinese products. And he said he wanted to put tariffs of up to 60% on Chinese products. These are key things, aren't they, like electric vehicles, which China's future sort of depends on. Exactly. So he's really talked about, he hasn't said which tariffs will go on which products, but we're expecting that some products will get tariffs of up to 60%, but many products, even just the cheapest Chinese things, will be tariffs of up to 20 percent. And so that's led a lot of people worry about the Chinese economy and how they're going

to counter that. Now, politically, we're also seeing how China is reacting to this. Officially, they've had no comment specifically on a Trump victory, but we're already seeing Chinese diplomats deploying the same strategy that we saw in the last Trump presidency. So you read some of the comments from the foreign ministry today saying that it was a win-win, that they were looking forward to working with whoever won the election. But we've also heard them talking about portraying China as the stable alternative to the United States. So for example, the

foreign ministry announced today that leaders from Italy and Indonesia were visiting China this week, saying that that underscores the recognition of China as a guardian of stability. So we're going to expect Beijing to really try to fill the vacuum that the United States might leave if it adopts a more isolationist policy the way that it did under the last Trump presidency. We're going to expect Trident to try to fill that space and to try to drive a wedge between the United States and some of its more traditional allies, for example the EU. What about North Korea? Trump had an interesting relationship there in the last term. That's right. So we've heard in July that North Korea said they really didn't care who won the presidency.

But then we heard in August from a very high profile diplomat who defected saying that Kim Jong-un actually would be interested in restarting talks with Donald Trump. I think the answer is that it really is very unpredictable what Donald Trump will do with North Korea. He once famously threatened fire and fury to North Korea, but then he sat down for talks. So it's very uncertain. And I think that's how the region's feeling right now. We don't know whether Donald Trump will side with United States traditional allies like South Korea and Japan, or whether he'll start dealing with other countries that the United States has really been ignoring for the past few years. Countries like Indonesia, which has just has a new leader, or North Korea.

Maybe he'll start to restart talks with them. Celia Hatton, our Asia Pacific regional editor. American elections are always followed around the world, but none more so perhaps than this one. With so many implications of a Donald Trump victory on so many areas of the globe. With his thoughts on the broader global diplomatic significance, we turn to diplomatic and defence analyst Jonathan Marcus. Jonathan Marcus, history. Everything is of epochal proportions. But I do think that this is a very significant moment. I think when historians look back, if Mr. Trump is as bad and as dangerous as

potentially he could be to the international order, then I think historians will look back at this day and say it was when the post-1945 world order, the order that America established at the end of the Second World War, which key economic and security dimensions, it was the start of that order unraveling. And I think in terms of their worst fears, that's something that many of America's allies are worried about. There's the context. We have major war in Europe. We have an ever-widening crisis in the Middle East with appalling civilian casualties, and no sign of that conflict actually ending. Indeed, the danger is that it could spiral further out of control. You have the terrible worries now manifest all around us

of the impact of climate change. Governments in many countries clawing their way back from the twin crises of the financial crisis and the COVID pandemic. They need stability, they need predictability in the international order. And one of the big changes, I think, from Trump won, you know, many people might say to me, well, you know, we said lots of these things back when Trump first became president, it didn't turn out quite as badly as all that. The great difference this time is that Mr. Trump appears to be a man to some extent out for revenge. He will not be surrounded as he was last time by fairly establishment, regular figures from the Republican foreign policy circles. He's likely to be surrounded by much more dogmatic, much more ideological people. And for example, in his choice of vice president,

a man who parrots Russian propaganda lines, who clearly doesn't want any money at all being spent on Ukraine. So potentially a very, very different Trump in practical terms than we saw in Trump one, if you want to call it that. The defence and diplomatic analyst, Jonathan Marcus. So, so many questions remain about what a second Donald Trump presidency will look like. But let's leave you with a look at his road back to the White House. In order to make America great and glorious again, I am tonight announcing my candidacy for president of the United States. Donald Trump has become the first American To make America great and glorious again, I am tonight announcing my candidacy for President

of the United States. Donald Trump has become the first American president to be a convicted criminal, a felon. Dealing with everything we have to do with, look, if... I am now officially the Democratic nominee for president of the United States. Crooked Joe Biden became mentally impaired, said, but Lion Kamala Harris, honestly, I believe she was born that way. Take a look at what happened. If I had not moved my head at that very last instant, the assassin's bullet would have perfectly hit its mark.

This is fun. I could do this all day. I wouldn't mind this job. They're eating the dogs, the people that came in. They're eating the cats. And then they say, he's a Nazi. I'm not a Nazi. I'm the opposite of a Nazi.

The Fox News decision desk can now officially project that Donald Trump will become the 47th President of the United States. This is a magnificent victory for the American people that will allow us to make America great again. Oh, we will make America great again. All the way. USA! USA! USA! And that's all from us for now, but there'll be a new edition of the Global News podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email.

The address is globalpodcast.bbc.co.uk. This edition was mixed by Dan Ehrlich and the producer was Niki Verrico. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Paul Moss. Until next time, goodbye. An adventure of a lifetime. Sailing around the world. Delivering a renovated yacht thousands of miles around the globe, from Brazil to Europe. It was an opportunity to gain a lot of experience. My path to my dream was beginning.

But for the sailors selected, this dream job quickly turned into a nightmare. Rodrigo, the police are here. There's something on this boat. Whoa. But 10 of cocaine. And a key suspect was miles away. Fox called the shots. He was in charge.

But we've found him. Brazilian police say that you are an international drug trafficker. Well, I'm not. From the BBC World Service. World of Secrets, Season 5, Finding Mr. Fox. Search for World of Secrets wherever you get your BBC podcasts.