Global News Podcast - First conclave vote ends in black smoke

Episode Date: May 7, 2025

Black smoke emerges from the Sistine Chapel in the Vatican, as 133 cardinals fail to elect a new pope after the first ballot. Also: the White House responds to Joe Biden's BBC interview, calling him a disgrace.

This BBC podcast is supported money anywhere in the world. 12 million customers managing their international money with WISE can't be wrong. Download the WISE app today or visit BBC World Service. I'm Valerie Sanderson and in the early hours of Thursday the 8th of May these are our main stories. Black smoke appears from the chimney of the Sistine Chapel after the first conclave vote. Pakistan calls India's overnight missile strikes on its territory an act of war. Russia begins a three-day unilateral ceasefire in Ukraine. Also in this podcast, the White House responds to Joe Biden's interview with the BBC calling him a disgrace and... It is a shame we encountered each other that day in those circumstances. In another life, we probably could have been friends. The road rage victim who addressed his killer from beyond the grave.

The road rage victim who addressed his killer from beyond the grave. Thick black smoke has risen from the Sistine Chapel chimney signalling that the 133 cardinals meeting in the conclave have not yet agreed on a new pope. Thousands of people gathered in St Peter's Square to wait for the result of the first vote. Among them, the BBC's Marion Mishiri, who was with Austin Ivory, the biographer of Pope Francis. We are watching and waiting, as is much of the world, for the results of the first vote in the conclave. You can hear there a murmur and cheer in the crowd the crowd has been patiently waiting for some sign We're hearing more cheers, but I'm not seeing anything Not see their smoke Yes, that is there it is

There's black smoke there it is There's black smoke There it is We have black smoke. There it is. There's black smoke. There it is. We have black smoke billowing out of the chimney. We don't have any bells. We have black smoke. There is no decision tonight on who will be the next pope. The Cardinals have failed to elect a pope on the first round of voting and that smoke appeared at one minute past nine, exactly local time, a new record, I believe, for this. And so, Austin Ivory, paper biographer and long-time friend of mine, by long-time I mean three

hours, what does this mean? Well, it is exactly what we expected. This has been the first ballot and normally on the first ballot they are seeing where the votes lie in the room. It's, as it were, the vote that then guides the rest of the conclave. I was not expecting a pope to be elected now and a pope has not been elected. We are getting what we expected. What was not expected was that we would run so far over time. We don't know why that's the case. We may get an explanation before tomorrow or we may only learn later what happened. It could have been a technical hitch, it could have been they had to do a recount or it had something to do with the number of them and something went wrong. We

will probably find out afterwards. Anyway, the important thing is they have voted. The ballots have been burned. Everything has worked now. And we are now all set for the voting to begin again tomorrow, the two votes in the morning and the two votes in the afternoon. They may not need all those votes. They may be able to choose the Pope before then.

Austin Ivory and Marion Michiri in St Peter's Square in Rome. Well, one of the top contenders to become Pope is Cardinal Louis Antonio Tagli from the Philippines. He was close to the late Pope Francis and one of the arguments being made in his favour is that his country has the largest Roman Catholic population in Asia. But as our South East Asia correspondent Jonathan Head reports from Manila, the church there is facing challenges which the next Pope will have to confront. To attend a mass at one of Manila's bigger churches is to see the Roman Catholic faith at its most fervent.

Outside the 2,000 seat Bacchaloran church, devotees cluster around a polished wooden statue of Christ on the cross, touching his feet and praying. The Philippines is seen by the Vatican as a healthy stronghold for the church, yet even here its influence is not what it was. Weekly attendance at Mass has been falling for years. So churchgoers like Nicole Perez are grateful to Pope Francis for his efforts to broaden its appeal. There has been really a big impact on,

especially on the young people here in the Philippines. I've known a lot of people that went back to church after he became Pope because of how welcoming he is, how accepting he is, regardless of whether you're part of the LGBTQ community or not, or whether you're a practicing Catholic or not. Not even in my wildest imagination did I think that I would be made a cardinal. Cardinal Pablo David was about to head off to Rome to join the conclave when I met him at his cathedral in Calooca, north of Manila.

He was a surprise appointment by Pope Francis last December, one of many more progressive clerics promoted by the late Pontiff. I'm not an archbishop. I'm a bishop of my little diocese where majority of the people are slum dwellers, urban poor, you know. And I just thought maybe for Pope Francis it matters that we have more cardinals who are really grounded. During the drug war launched by former President Duterte, in which thousands of alleged drug users were gunned down by police, Cardinal David says he got personal support from Pope Francis for the stand he

took against the killings, which led to death threats and criminal charges against him. But he also credits the late pope for being more open-minded than his predecessors. It's only within the time of Pope Francis that he opened the door to sensitive issues. That's already a big deal for me. They're no longer taboo. So Pope Francis has changed the culture already. Churches here are still well used. Catholic rituals and holy days still punctuate the lives of most Filipinos. Yet priests, especially those in poorer areas like Father Robert Race, fret about falling attendance and the competition posed by charismatic new churches.

Gone are the days when you went to a community and 90% or 95% are Catholics. You go to my community here in the urban poor areas, the other churches are very active and aggressively active in our communities. The Roman Catholic Church? The Roman Catholic Church is rather slow and in some sectors doing very little. That's a problem of a majority church. Pope Francis had hoped to instil renewed vigour in a church he believed had lost touch with ordinary people, with his outspoken and informal approach.

The choice of his successor will reflect whether the Cardinals believe his approach was working, or needs to be changed. Jonathan Head in Manila. Can the governments of India and Pakistan be pulled back from the brink as tensions escalate following Delhi's strikes on its neighbour and Pakistan administered Kashmir on Tuesday night? India says the strikes were revenge for what they allege was Pakistan's state involvement in a deadly terror attack in Indian-administered Kashmir last month. Islamabad denies that charge.

Nalan Kohli is national spokesman for India's governing BJP party, the Hindu Nationalist Party of Prime Minister Narendra Modi. James Menendez asked him what were the targets of India's missile strikes. What the government of India has briefed officially, they pointed out that these were specific targets on terror networks, what we identify as training facilities or those targets directly associated with terrorist groups. So not Pakistani military sites though?

That was made clear. These were specific targets based on the intelligence reports and unfortunately for us, we have a long history of terrorists emanating from the other side of the border from Pakistan into India and with the communication channels the intelligence agencies were able to identify all set of people. because they did take place on Pakistani soil. What evidence does India have of Pakistan's involvement in the attack in Kashmir two weeks ago? There was a rather sage statement that came out from our Foreign Secretary, Mr. Vikram Mishri, which specifically had given two examples with regard to Pakistan and the duplicity

in terms of its stand on terrorism. The example of Sajid Mir was brought out, who had been declared dead by the Pakistani establishment, but subsequently suddenly was resurrected back to life and finally arrested. Same has been the stand with Pakistan in terms of trying its best in the United Nations to somehow keep away references to the TRF

or the resistance front. So Pakistan has a history of maintaining that it has nothing to do with what it terms non-state actors. But there has been a long history and there's been credible evidence on a number of attacks that have taken place on Indian soil by terrorists coming from across the border from Pakistan. But what about the specific attack in Pahelgaum? I mean, isn't it up to India to present some evidence publicly linking those groups that you talk about to the Pakistani government, given how high the stakes are and the possibility of escalation? The Pahelgaum attack was the largest civilian targeted killing after the Mumbai attacks in 2008.

This kind of an attack and the follow-up that's been taken on by the security forces, the intelligence agencies, the study of the communication nodes, all of it, made a credible case. I think countries globally and anyone who follows rule of law and believes that rule of law must sustain, there are only two sides, the sides of the terrorists or the sides against the terrorists. And in a global fight of terrorism, we are firmly against the terrorists. India's also said that these missile strikes were designed to be non-escalatory, but there is bound to be were designed to be non-escalatory, but there is bound to be escalation, isn't there? And Pakistan has already said today that it will respond with corresponding actions, which

presumably means missile strikes of its own. Well, measured, non-escalatory, proportionate and responsible, are the words used. There's not a military target on that list. The missile attacks at nine designated spots, and I believe it's about 25 missiles, or specifically on what I established terrorist networks. Secondly, with regards to Pakistan, it also I have read somewhere in the media a short while ago. They've said if there are no further strikes, at least that's what the media has reported, they will not take any further action. So there are conflicting points of view coming from Pakistan. Does India want a war with Pakistan over this?

Nobody wants a war. But one doesn't stay away from protecting your rights and ensuring that Indian blood is not spilled or Indian innocents are not killed in a power game based on a network that supports terrorists or breeds terrorists. The spokesman for India's governing BJP party, Nalan Kohli. Pakistan has condemned India's overnight missile strikes on its territory as an act of war. It said Delhi had ignited an inferno in the region and it reserved the right to respond. Rebecca Kespy spoke to the Pakistani Cabinet Minister, Asan Iqbal. war against Pakistan. It has violated Pakistan's territorial integrity and carried out an act of war against our civilian population, which is not acceptable by any country in the world.

India says that they targeted nine militant training camps and their argument would be how are such training camps able to operate in Pakistan and in Pakistani territory? Why aren't your forces closing them down? Well, I think this is a big lie which India is trying to mislead the world because Pakistan actually offered a very credible international neutral investigation into the whole matter. Who are the casualties? How can be a seven-year-old boy a terrorist? How can be a five-year-old girl be a terrorist? How can be a housewife women? They can be terrorists. So I think India is just trying to give wrong information to the international community in order to cover its very cowardly act. They have killed more than 24 Pakistanis and I

think this is an act which no country will forgive. So how does Pakistan respond? How does Pakistan make sure that it is proportionate and that it doesn't escalate the situation even further? I mean, we know both states have nuclear weapons, neither side can afford that sort of escalation, can it? India has taken the initiative of escalating the situation in this region. Pakistan tried its best to convince Indian leadership and also to express to the international community that we are willing to cooperate in any

kind of independent neutral investigation. Yet India chose to ignore that and it carried out these attacks. Your government said today that your military shot down five Indian jets overnight. Isn't that already a proportionate response to the Indian strikes? Well, that was countering the attack that was taking place and we defended our country. Self-defence is an act that is permissible under international law, UN conventions. And if our Air Force had not done this brave act last night, they shot down three raffles, state-of-the the art aircrafts of Indian

Air Force and two more aircraft. The damage that India has caused by killing our 24 innocent civilians and injuring more than 46 people seriously through these attacks, I think that is something that Pakistan will choose its own response at a time. And I think this is something which armed forces of Pakistan will decide. And government has given them the mandate to choose the time and the manner in which we can respond appropriately. OK, but do you feel under pressure from the international community, not least the United States, to be proportionate, to step back from the brink

if you like. There isn't much appetite for another major war in the world at the moment and Pakistan will be under pressure not to escalate this further. Are you suggesting that Pakistan just sleeps over the attack on its sovereignty? Pakistan just conveniently ignores violation of its territorial integrity. Asan Iqbal from the Pakistan government. Still to come, the late Queen Elizabeth is to get a new memorial and the public will be given a say on the final shortlist of designs. We want the public to comment on these proposals

because we want them to feel part of designs. We want the public to comment on these proposals because we want them to feel part of it. So much of what the late queen was about was about meeting people and engaging with them. This podcast is brought to you by Wise.ISE is the fast affordable way to get the currency you need at your fingertips. Tap the WISE multi-currency card to spend pounds in London or download the app to move pesos to Mexico City. WISE always gives you a fair exchange rate with no markups and no hidden fees. So when you send, spend or receive money with WISE, you'll get the real deal for your money anywhere in the world. 12 million customers managing their international money with WISE can't be wrong. Download the WISE app today or visit WISE.com. T's and T's apply. Russian state media says a three-day unilateral ceasefire proposed by Moscow in its war on Ukraine has come into force. The truth has been called to coincide with events in Moscow to mark the 80th anniversary of the defeat of Nazi Germany. Ukraine has scorned the truth, saying it was ready to observe a longer 30-day ceasefire. Our security correspondent

Frank Gardner sent us this report from Kyiv. Defending the skies over Kyiv. This was the sound of Ukrainian air defences, trying to shoot down dozens of explosive Russian drones and a missile targeting the capital. The attack came less than 24 hours ahead of Russia's proposed three-day ceasefire. But Ukrainians are sceptical. They say if Moscow is serious about stopping this war, then it would sign up to the 30-day ceasefire, agreed to by both Ukraine and the US. I asked the Ukrainian MP Lisa Yasko what she thought of President Putin's ceasefire offer. Three days cost nothing to him. It costs like, oh, a joke, you know. To have a longer ceasefire, depending on what is the militaristic and the personal goal for Kremlin is, can be possible, but there is no single sign that they are

going to do that any time soon. Ukraine's armed forces were equally dismissive. They called the offer a smoke break, not a ceasefire. This is partly because last month Russia proposed an Easter truce at almost no notice. It was broken by both sides on literally thousands of occasions. But ceasefires are not as simple as they sound. Both sides need to agree the terms in advance. Do they include resupply of ammunition, of food, surveillance flights, rotation of troops? Given the total lack of trust between Ukraine and Moscow, no one here thinks it

will be long before Ukraine's air defences are back in action. Frank Gardner in Kyiv The White House has responded to comments made by former US President Joe Biden during his first interview since Donald Trump took over. The current administration said Mr. Biden, who criticised Mr Trump for his approach to Ukraine, Canada and NATO, was a disgrace. Mr Biden was speaking exclusively to the BBC to mark the 80th anniversary of VE Day. Our North America editor, Sarah Smith, has more. Finally, Joe Biden's coming out speaking out yesterday to the BBC.

This interview is making news in the US as it's unusual for a former president to criticise his successor, even though that tradition never stopped Donald Trump attacking Joe Biden. Mr Biden said to the BBC that the demand for Ukraine to give up some territory to Russia to end the war was modern-day appeasement, and complained that the way Vladimir Zelensky was treated in the Oval Office in March was unpresidential. What did you make of those scenes in the Oval Office, President Trump and President Zelensky? I found it sort of beneath America, the way that took place. And the way we talk about now that, well, it's the Gulf of America. Maybe we're going to have to take back Panama. Maybe we need to acquire Greenland.

Maybe Canada should be...what the hell's going on here? What president ever talks like that? In response, the White House Communications Director Stephen Chung posted on social media saying, Joe Biden is a complete disgrace to this country and the office he occupied. He's clearly lost all mental faculties and his handlers thought it would be a good idea for him to do an interview and incoherently mumble his way through every answer. Sadly, this feels like abuse, he added. The White House is choosing to focus on how frail Mr Biden appeared to be in this interview, rather than to address his criticism of Donald Trump's foreign policy and his rejection

of international cooperation and alliances. Sarah Smith. In Kenya, a gang of four men who tried to smuggle thousands of rare ants out of the country have been told that they will go to jail for a year if they don't pay a fine of nearly $8,000. Two 18-year-olds from Belgium, a man from Vietnam and another from Kenya, denied attempting to traffic the ants but admitted possessing the insects which were packed into tubes and syringes. Alima Magero is a lawyer who represents the two Belgians. The boys will have learned a lesson and being young it's a story they'll keep telling even the other generations and when they come to Kenya, when other kids come to Kenya

they'll have reference to this so it's a good precedent. Our deputy Africa editor Anne Saw is in Nairobi where she's been following the story. It's a very unusual case, the first of its kind in Kenya. This two teenagers from Belgium had travelled to the country, one was on his gap year, so he was in the country waiting to join college. The other one had come towards Safari Rally and so the one who was in his gap year is an ant enthusiast and so when he went to where the Safari rally was happening, he connected with the community there and learned more about ants. Apparently he has 10 colonies back home in Belgium and so he

got interested in collecting queen ants. So they got more than 5,000 queen ants, which is quite extraordinary. It's not usually easy to find queen ants, they are heavily protected. And they were arrested in Nakuru, which is about a three-hour drive out of Nairobi, which is where they got these ants. And some of them had been packaged into test tubes with cotton wool and apparently they were kept in conditions which, according to experts, would have kept the ants alive for at least two months. But they said they had no intention of trafficking these ants in order to sell them to make a profit. Now you say these ants are protected in Kenya. What makes them so special? They're quite big in exotic pet markets and watching them develop colonies because they're

queen ants specifically because they're really at the centre, at the core of the colonies. And so once they're transported and they're in a new environment, they are able to build a colony even though it is just one ant that perhaps the enthusiast bought. They are able to build colonies from what they already have in their bodies and they are valuable in pet markets apparently in Europe and Asia where one ant can fetch as much as $200. And this crime was likened to the slave trade wasn wasn't it, in court? Tell us more about that. That was extraordinary. When the judge started reading the ruling, she started by likening this capture of the ants and keeping them in a container and being fed glucose water,

the only source of nourishment, and potentially being sent to foreign lands and then potentially being sold. And she likened it to slave trade. And a lot of the wildlife crime and wildlife trafficking has always focused on the big game, the bigger species, ivory from elephants and the like. And so this has come as a surprise because these are some of the smallest wildlife and they're freely available. They're usually in people's gardens and often more of a nuisance to people and so it has really surprised people. Anne Soy. Artificial intelligence has been used to

allow a dead man to address his killer in court. Chris Pelkey was shot in a road rage incident in the US state of Arizona. More details from our North America technology correspondent, Lynn Jamali. Chris Pelkey was 37 when he was shot dead in a road rage incident in Chandler, a suburb in Arizona, in 2021. Nearly four years later, he appeared from beyond the grave in a court in Arizona to address Gabriel Horcacidas, who was convicted of his manslaughter. It took two years for Mr. Pelkey's sister to create this version of him.

She fed videos and audio of him to AI models to come up with an approximation of what he might say were he still alive. It is a shame we that day in those circum life, we probably could h I believe in forgiveness I always have and I still case, Todd Lang welcomed his courtroom. A federal

in the U. S. Is consideri A. I. Ev evidence at trial that could determine if AI-generated content is allowed at court proceedings in the future. Lillie Jamali Bridges, lily pads and audio installations all feature in the final shortlist of designs for a national memorial to Queen Elizabeth II in central London. The government has revealed five proposals at a cost of between 30 and 60 million dollars for the monument which will be located in St James's Park near Buckingham Palace. Here's our role correspondent Sean

Coughlin. The public are being asked to give their views on the proposed designs for what will become an important London landmark. The five options include a mix of traditional statues and experimental concepts as ways of remembering the long life of the late Queen Elizabeth. Three of the designs feature her on horseback, reflecting her lifelong enthusiasm for horses. One of those has 70 lily pads, one for each year of her reign. Another includes an audio installation with recordings of her voice. Other designs don't focus on depictions of Queen Elizabeth. Instead one features a statue of an oak tree representing

her resilience and endurance. Another uses interweaving bridges as a centrepiece. The cost will be between £23 million and £46 million depending on which design is selected. That choice will be made by a committee, which includes Baroness Amos. We want public engagement, we want the public to comment on these proposals, because we want them to feel part of it. So much of what the late Queen was about was about meeting people and engaging with them. A decision on the winner will be announced later this year. Sean Coughlin.

And that's it from us for now, but there'll be a new edition of the Global News podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, send us an email. The address is globalpodcast.bbc.co.uk. You can also find us on X at BBC World Service. Use the hashtag globalnewspod. This edition was produced by Judy Frankel and mixed by Caroline Driscoll. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Valerie Sanderson. Until next time, bye bye.

This podcast is brought to you by WISE. WISE is the fast, affordable way to get the currency you need at your fingertips. Tap the WISE Multi-Currency Card to spend pounds in London or download the app to move pesos to Mexico City. WISE always gives you a fair exchange rate with no markups and no hidden fees. So when you send, spend or receive money with WISE, you'll get the real deal for your money anywhere in the world. 12 million customers managing their international money with Wyse can't

be wrong. Download the Wyse app today or visit Wyse.com. T's and T's apply.