Global News Podcast - India-Pakistan tensions rise following deadly Kashmir attack

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

India and Pakistan announce tit-for-tat measures after deadly Kashmir attack. Ukraine responds to worst strike on Kyiv in months. Trump calls on President Putin to 'STOP!' Also: the woman who fooled the world's top magic society

This is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Jackie Leonard and at 13 Hours GMT on Thursday the 24th of April, these are our main stories. Pakistan says it will regard any attempt by India to limit its water supply as an act of war. Tensions between the two rivals are mounting following the killing of Indian tourists on Tuesday. And Ukraine has expressed its outrage at the latest deadly strikes on civilian targets in Kiev. President Zelensky has broken off a trip to South Africa, calling for more pressure to be placed on Russia to end the conflict.

Also in this podcast, Australia says it will create a strategic reserve of critical minerals as nations scramble to reduce dependence on China for rare earth metals and... If we don't take urgent steps to stop this tree from getting lost, we may lose it for good. The Shea nut tree, a source of income for millions across Central Africa and why it's under threat. For decades, Kashmir has been a point of tension between India and Pakistan. Tuesday's militant

attack in which 26 tourists were killed in Indian-administered Kashmir has aggravated relations still further between the two nuclear neighbours. The Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi said India will find and punish every terrorist involved in the attack. We will pursue them to the ends of the earth. India's spirit will never be broken by terrorism. Terrorism will not go unpunished. Every effort will be made to ensure that justice is done. Delhi has imposed restrictions on neighbouring Pakistan, which include the suspension of

a water sharing arrangement and the closure of a border crossing. Responding to the Indian measures, Pakistan has said that any attempt by India to limit water from the Indus River would be seen as an act of war. Our correspondent in Delhi, Arunadeh Mukherjee, told us more about the comments from Pakistan. It's a very strongly worded statement from Prime Minister Shahabaz Sharif's office. Islamabad saying it rejected the suspension of the Indus Water Treaty by India. They said that any attempt to stop or divert the water will, and I quote, be considered as an act of war and also, and I quote, respond with full force across

the complete spectrum of national power is what the statement read. It has also decided to put on hold all bilateral agreements with India and said it was closing down the Wagah border post with immediate effect. They've also said that in the absence of any, quote, credible investigation and verifiable evidence, India's attempts to link this terror attack with Pakistan are frivolous and devoid of any rationality and defeat logic. It also said that Pakistan and its armed forces remain fully capable and prepared to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity. So just the words, the choice of words being used is just evidence of the way

in which the tensions have escalated between both the countries. And just explain to us why the water issue is so important. Well it was signed in 1960 between India and Pakistan, mediated by the World Bank. Essentially this treaty governs the sharing of the Indus water river system. It allocates waters from the three eastern rivers to India and the three western rivers to Pakistan. And it also allows India limited use of the western rivers

for non-consumption purposes like, for instance, hydropower. The treaty has been seen as a rare example in a sense of cooperation, even during conflicts that we've seen between the two countries in the past. If things do get serious like we are seeing now, there is a possibility of international arbitration but we don't know how that's going to go. Millions in Pakistan rely on the Indus system for agriculture and daily needs. So this in a way is India's attempt at putting pressure on Pakistan to act against what it says has been Islamabad's inability to tackle cross-border terrorism. And what more can you tell us about the hunt for the gunmen?

There is an army operation that continues in pockets of Indian-administered Kashmir, where they have launched operations. The police have also released pictures and sketches. They've identified three of the suspects. In fact, three out of the four suspects have been named. Two of them, they say, are Pakistani nationals. There's a reward of just short of $25,000 that's been announced for any further information for the suspects. The investigations continue. The focus also shifting from beyond Indian-administered Kashmir

to Delhi, really, where an all-party meeting has been called by the government where they're looking for some sort of a consensus and a plan of action about what they need to do next but the situation remains tense both countries are nuclear armed countries and they remain on edge and that's what everyone's watching out for. Arunade Mukherjee in Delhi. At least nine people have been killed and more than 80 others injured, including children, in an overnight attack on Kiev. Involving some 70 missiles and up to 150 drones, it's believed to be one of the most devastating assaults by Russia on Ukraine's capital in recent months. Victoria is a local resident.

There was an air raid siren. We didn't even have time to get dressed to go out of the apartment. One blast came after another. All the windows were blown out, doors, walls. My husband and son were thrown across the room. And that's it. I can't remember anything else. President Zelensky is cutting shorter visit to South Africa because of the attack. At a news conference in Pretoria, he said there needed to be more pressure on Russia to end the conflict. I don't see much pressure on Russia or any new strong sanctions packages against the

Russian aggression for now. We are very hopeful, and this is not an accusation. We are saying this very directly and without any emotion. We believe that if more pressure were applied to Russia, we'll be able to make our positions closer. The Ukrainian president himself is under pressure from the United States to accept territorial concessions to Russia, with President Trump accusing him of standing in the way of peace. Speaking to the BBC, Ukrainian MP Olexiy Goncharenko says Washington needs to be kept on side. We can't lose the United States in this war against Russia.

So our aim is to work with President Trump in the way he likes it. So we should be super patient, super thankful and very, very clever. The Russian Defence Ministry says the strikes targeted aviation, rocket and space, machine building and tank industry companies in Ukraine. Our correspondent John Donison is in Kiev. Well we're at the scene of one of the strikes. It's a residential neighbourhood, what, 10, 15 minutes outside the very centre of Keeve. I can see in front of me it looks like a ballistic missile hit. It's completely flattened one apartment block. That's where we think the nine people were

killed and the emergency services are now just digging through the rubble looking to see if there's anyone else trapped or killed underneath. All the buildings around are badly damaged. The windows have been blown out, the balconies ripped apart. And I just spoke to one woman here, a middle-aged woman, who had actually fled the east of Ukraine in the areas now occupied by Russia, and her apartment's been completely destroyed. She said she was terrified, managed to get into the corridor when the explosion happened, but obviously pretty devastating for

someone who has already been displaced twice. And meanwhile there has been so much public disagreement, particularly on social media overnight, between Donald Trump and President Zelensky about how to bring the war to an end. Yes, I mean this wasn't quite the full-scale slanging match that we had between the two presidents in the White House what, a month or so ago, but it was a pretty public disagreement.

And Donald Trump saying that President Zelensky was harming the peace process, he said that basically it was proving easier to deal with President Putin than it was to deal with President Zelensky. And actually I put it to this woman I spoke to just a few minutes ago here. I said look do you think President Zelensky should do a deal and give up those territories, her homeland in the east of Ukraine, which is now occupied by Russia, and she was adamant.

She said actually the question shouldn't be what should President Zelensky do, it should be what pressure should President Trump and the international community be putting on Russia to get them to stop. She said there was no question that Ukraine should give up territory, her homeland in the east of the country. She said that was against Ukraine's constitution and she said Ukraine should retain its territorial integrity. That was John Donison in Kiev.

And just before recording this podcast, Donald Trump has been giving his reaction to the strike on Kiev. He called it unnecessary and badly timed and wrote on his own social media site, Vladimir, stop. In recent years, countries across the world have been trying to secure better access to key resources like lithium and nickel, which have become crucial in sectors such as the car industry and renewable energy. On Thursday the Australian Prime Minister outlined plans for a strategic minerals stockpile to strengthen domestic supply chains and reduce dependence on China. Announcing the measures, Anthony Albanese said that at a time of increasing geopolitical

uncertainty it was of critical importance. Our strategic reserve will be a national asset and our government will use it to advance Australia's national interest. There's an opportunity here to strengthen our economic sovereignty at the same time as we broaden our trade relationships. The announcement was made just days before Australia holds an election. Here's our correspondent in Sydney, Phil Mercer. Well, Australia is a mining superpower and has been for many, many years.

It sits on very rich deposits of these so-called critical minerals. Most of those that are mined here in Australia are sold as ore to processing factories in China. China controls the global supply chain. So this announcement today by Anthony Albanese, the Prime Minister of Australia, who's facing a federal election in just over a week's time on May the 3rd, is an attempt to break or at least dilute China's market dominance when it comes to these critical minerals. Mr Albanese says that in increasingly uncertain times Australia needs a brand new

approach and the government has been stressing here that critical minerals are essential not only for Australia's security but for the security of its key allies. Tell us a bit more about these minerals and what they're actually used for. Well critical minerals they are metallic or non metallic elements. Australia has for a while been extremely worried about disruptions to the global supply chain. Now these minerals there are many of them they are used in a vast array of technologies, mobile phones, computers, banknotes, even military equipment. And also they play a vital role

in low emission technologies such as solar panels, wind turbines and rechargeable batteries as well as electric vehicles. So Australia has rich reserves of these critical minerals. Nickel, for example, is used for batteries in electric vehicles and cobalt is used in lithium-ion batteries. And you say Australia has reserves. How big are these reserves? Well, they're pretty enormous and Australia is sitting on what it believes is not only strategic deposits of these critical minerals but also politically important as well. These critical minerals could well be used as a key part in Australia's future negotiations with the United States, for example, when it comes to negotiations over tariffs.

So Australia would either process the minerals itself or sell them to other countries including Japan or Germany. That was Phil Mercer in Sydney. Shea butter provides an income for millions of women across Africa. The creamy produce from the shea nut tree is used in skincare and food with the United States and the European Union the biggest importers. But environmentalists say climate change is impacting the growth and yield of the trees because of prolonged droughts and there are fears it could affect global supply. Many farmers in northern Uganda are also turning to an alternative way of making a living from

the trees, felling them for charcoal, which in turn is harming the environment. Njeroge Mwigai sent this report from Koboko, northern Uganda. That is the sound of a border border. The motorbikes you see all across Uganda carrying people and goods. This one is travelling from the Mount Kay Forest in the north of the country. District is Koboko district that borders Democratic Republic of Congo and South Sudan. And with us is conservationist Mustafa Girimo. On our way, the budabudas keep coming, one after another after another, and strapped on the backs are large sacks of charcoal from sheanut trees.

and strapped on the backs are large sacks of charcoal from shea nut trees. Mount Kay Forest Reserve is home to one of the last sizable shea nut tree populations in East Africa. The golden butter from the shea nuts has provided a reliable income for millions of women across the region but prolonged droughts attributed to climate change have led to crop failures. And that's pushing many locals into seeking alternative sources of income. For some, that means cutting down the trees to sell as charcoal. This charcoal we are talking about is not the charcoal you will know where the local people around here use it themselves. It is what I would call commercial charcoal business, where this charcoal is produced in bulk.

Seeing people cut the tree has always caused, to me, a lot of pain in my heart. Our community is affected by poverty, so they look at the tree as a cheap alternative source of income. The nuts on the Uganda Shear tree are used to make high quality Nylotica Shear Butter used in skincare and cooking. Mariam, a mother of six, has been making Shear Butter for over 20 years. She sells one 500ml bottle of Shear Nut oil for around two and a half US dollars.

But she says these days she's struggling to make a living. When I started this business, I used to sell three to four jerrycans. Nowadays I only get five liters. I was able to make 300,000 Ugandan shillings. Nowadays I only make 100,000 to 50,000 Ugandan shillings. Money is not enough. My children are not doing well at home because I don't get enough shea butter.

Such is the concern over the failing of the shea trees for charcoal that the Ugandan presidency put a ban on the practice in 2023. But experts like Professor J.B. Okulo of Makerere University say it's not working, largely because of the demand. It has been very difficult to implement. But the problem we see is more in urban area. The demand of the charcoal, if you move,

is more in urban area, not in the rural area. The International Union for Conservation of Nature classifies the sheer tree as at a high risk of extinction. Yeah, these are the charcoal. And activists like Mustafa are calling for urgent action to protect it, including replanting. If we don't take urgent steps to stop this tree from getting lost, we may lose it for good. Njeroge Mweigai reporting from Northern Uganda. Still to come, a first of its kind trial helping adults manage life-threatening peanut allergy.

It's really changed my life. You know, if that can now be brought more widely and and impact more people's lives. I think that's a really good thing. Over the last month, thousands of Gazans have taken to the streets in sporadic protests against Hamas and against the war. Public criticism of Hamas is rare in Gaza with protests sometimes violently dispersed and opponents jailed, tortured or killed. The Hamas run health ministry says more than 51,000 people have been killed in Gaza

during the war. On Thursday rescue services say at least 25 people were killed in Israeli airstrikes. The BBC's diplomatic correspondent Paul Adams has been speaking to some of those Gazans who've been protesting and he reports from Jerusalem. Out, out, out he says. All of Hamas out. On the streets of Gaza, voices of defiance. Hamas, they say, has brought nothing but misery. Deliver the message, the chant goes, Hamas is garbage. After a year and a half of war out from the shattered remains of his city. The world is deceived by the situation in the Gaza Strip. The world thinks that Gaza

is Hamas and Hamas is Gaza. We didn't choose Hamas. And now Hamas is determined to rule Gaza and tie our fate to its own until it returns to power. Hamas must retreat. It must make concessions. But speaking out is dangerous. Hamas has never tolerated dissent. Moamman seems undaunted, writing a furious column for The Washington Post at the end of March.

To support Hamas, he said, was to be for Palestinian death, not freedom. But it is dangerous to be raising your voice like this, no? We need to take a risk and speak out. I am 30 years old. When Hamas took over, I was 11. Resistance takes into account international and religious laws. Kidnapping women and children and killing many people, no human can accept

this. Humanity demands us to raise our voices, despite Hamas' suppression. Hamas is at its weakest now. We want civilians in Gaza to make our voice reach the world. Hamas may be busy fighting Israel, but it's not afraid to punish its critics. This is Odai Roubaï, alone and afraid in a grainy dark post on social media. I don't know why they're after me, he says, glancing over his shoulder. They've destroyed us and brought ruin. Soon after that message, Odai was dead.

A video of his body showed terrible wounds. And he's not the only one. We've seen pictures of several others tortured, beaten or killed for daring to protest against Hamas. At Odeh's funeral, threats of revenge. And again, demands for Hamas to get out of Gaza. Last summer, Amin Abed paid a heavy price for his decision to speak out. Hamas militants beat him senseless, broke bones all over his body and damaged his kidneys. He survived,

but had to seek medical treatment abroad. He spoke to us from Dubai. HAMAS' power has begun to fade. It's not like it was before. Nowadays, Hamas is very weak. It targets activists and civilians, beats and kills them to scare people. Some of the more recent protests have been bold. Bait Lahir, at the northern end of the Gaza Strip, has seen some of the most vociferous opposition. In a series of voice notes, which we've disguised at the sender's request, we were told of an incident in which local residents

prevented Hamas fighters from launching rockets from inside their community. The gunmen fired on the crowds, but eventually were driven out. Elsewhere, protesters have told militants to stay away from hospitals and schools, but it's risky. In Gaza City, Hamas shot one such protester dead. Before the ceasefire collapsed last month, In Gaza City, Hamas shot one such protester dead. Before the ceasefire collapsed last month, Hamas fighters seemed intent on highly visible

displays of power. But now, with Israel once again attacking relentlessly, the same gunmen have retreated underground and Gaza's civilians have been plunged back into the misery of war. With little to lose and hopes dashed again, some are venting their fury against Israel and Hamas. It's not yet a rebellion, but after almost 20 years of rule, Hamas' grip on Gaza is slowly slipping. Paul Adams.

Prosecutors in South Korea have charged the former president Moon Jae-in with corruption in a case linked to the former president Moon Jae-in with corruption in a case linked to the employment of his son-in-law. Mr Moon led South Korea from 2017 to 2022. Our correspondent, Jean McKenzie, reports from Seoul. Mr Moon is best remembered for his attempts to broker a peace deal with Kim Jong-un. But now he's been accused of bribery. He's alleged to have offered the founder of a budget airline a position in his government in return for his son-in-law being given a senior job at the airline. Prosecutors argue that Mr Moon's son-in-law had no experience

in the airline industry before he was hired. This case follows a long tradition in South Korea of former leaders being charged with crimes. The prosecution service is often accused of being politicised and when the government changes hands, it's common for rival politicians to be investigated. His successor, Yoon Sung-nyul, also awaits trial accused of insurrection last December. To Brazil, where a big corruption scandal appears to be unfolding. Police are investigating a scheme which for the past six years has allegedly defrauded millions of pensioners of a billion dollars.

Because only small amounts were taken from each individual, many didn't notice that their monthly payments were a bit short. But now the head of Brazil's state pension institute, Alessandro Stefanutu, has been fired. Jeanette Jalil heard more from our Americas regional editor Leonardo Rocha. Brazilian police launched this major operation with raids across the country, 13, 14 states, because the audit office had gathered evidence showing that probably millions of pensioners had had money deducted from the monthly payments without their authorization.

What this scheme consisted of is people were made to join associations of pensioners like a union and they made a deduction for membership every month. But more than 90% of those people didn't know they had joined. Basically the forms were fake. If you think that Brazil has almost 30 million pensioners, if you take one dollar from each person, you have 30 million dollars a month. Yes, and the amounts being taken from each individual account were small, but if you add that all up, that's more than a billion dollars. More than a billion, 1.1 billion over six years. It's a scheme that has been going through three different presidents, but the numbers have soared in the past one or two years. For example,

one of those associations had 30,000 members and all of a sudden they had 600,000 members. It's fraud, it's basically targeting the most vulnerable in society. I imagine that they target people in small towns or rural areas or people who are really vulnerable and couldn't defend themselves. So this started in 2019. As you say, it wasn't just under President Lula's watch. But how damaging is it for him, given that he himself has been mired in corruption allegations in the past?

Well it is very damaging for his reputation, for his government because Alessandro Stefano who was the head of the pension institute, he was appointed by a left wing government, part of the government coalition and initially he was suspended for hours and then President Lula said Mr Stefanoowicz would have to resign because of the political implications. Basically, eventually Mr. Stefanowicz was sacked. What is difficult here for President Lula is he is distancing himself from this person, but he can't go very hard on this party because he needs the vote. His coalition is very ample, very wide and just one or two weeks ago another government minister also had to resign for corruption.

So he doesn't control the whole coalition that the people appointed by different parties but eventually all the reaction, all the bad press comes to President Lula who is struggling and who will fight for re-election next year. Leonardo Roscia. In recent years, studies have found that young children with life-threatening peanut allergies can be given micro doses to help them build up enough immunity in case of accidental exposure. And now a small clinical trial in the UK is looking at whether the same can be done for

adults, with participants being trained to eventually eat several peanuts a day. One of them, Chris Brooks-Smith, had his worst allergic reaction ten years ago after ordering takeaway food. I have one bite, put my spoon down because I feel tingling and I'm like maybe it's the spice, maybe it's something in there and then within seconds spots start appearing on my lips. That's the first telltale sign. It's like someone pouring a boiled kettle of water over you for all that time so I'm writhing, screaming and crying, unable to escape this pain. Now though Chris is able to eat four peanuts every morning

to keep his allergy at bay. Our health reporter, Philippa Roxby, has more on this groundbreaking trial. It's the first to test whether adults who are allergic to peanuts can be desensitised. The first dose that we gave was 0.8 milligrams, which is infinitesimally small. That's Professor Stephen Till from King's College London and Guy's Hospital.

He led the trial. They were given supplies for two weeks wrapped up and then to take home to mix with their meals daily. And then when they were going to go to the next dose, they came into hospital to have that tested with them under medical supervision. And then they carried on again on that higher dose then for another two weeks before repeating the cycle coming back. By the end of the nine-month trial, two-thirds of the 21 patients could eat up to five peanuts without reacting. Food immunotherapy is a much newer treatment and really it's only been the last 20 years and predominantly in children where this has been studied. So we need treatments for adults as well as children and that's why this

kind of research, this area of research is very important. Patients started on tiny amounts of peanut powder and over many months built up to four whole peanuts a day, something they've got to continue to do now. So it wasn't a quick fix and it certainly wasn't a cure. It needed strict medical supervision, so not something to try at home. I'm thankful, gratitude. It's really changed my life. For Chris, it's a huge relief. He no longer has to worry about what he's eating, or live in fear of dying from an allergic reaction. You know, if that can now be brought more widely and impact more people's lives like it already

has done, I think that's a really good thing. Chris Brooks-Smith ending that report by Philippa Roxby. The Magic Circle describes itself as the world's most famous society of magicians. The British institution has been established for 120 years years but for much of that time women were excluded from membership. More than 30 years ago Sophie Lloyd disguised herself as a man in order to attempt to join but she was expelled when her illusion was uncovered. She has now received an official apology and will be welcomed back at a ceremony in London

later on Thursday. Sophie Lloyd spoke to Emma Barnett about her original audition and exam 34 years ago which she performed in character as Raymond Lloyd. My magician friend the late Jenny Wynn Stanley, she was really behind all this. I played Raymond and with her tuition I managed to do this character and it was totally believed. And it was totally believed, you know, I was looking at some of the people. Oh totally, 100%. And you were having to do magic wearing a body suit and wearing gloves. Yes. Did that make it harder? The body suit was fine but the gloves it's very hard to do

sleight of magic, very very very hard. I wore plumpers as well, like plastic cheat things on a brace to wear under your face to give me the sort of the jawline I wanted. And you had everyone fooled? I did, yes. We did a 20 minute show in front of 200 people, three examiners, and spoke to the examiner for an hour and three quarters afterwards. And what happened when you wanted to say, well, I'm actually Sophie and you're now admitting women? what conversation happened Well, Jenny did it over the phone and she got off the phone

She goes well that didn't go down well because she had a lot of friends in the magic circle You know and she was she was quite surprised and about three days two days later We got a letter to say that Raymond's been expelled. No, it didn't go down very well. Jenny was very very hurt to say that Raymond's been expelled. You know, it didn't go down very well. Jenny was very, very hurt. And we could get our heads around it. We just thought, well, come on. It's funny, it's amusing.

But they didn't think so. And Jenny was completely snubbed, unfortunately. And you were, I suppose, in the process. You weren't able to be a member. And did you carry on practicing magic? Yeah, 11 years. I played anti-bullying show, writer's show. Play played as a cockney boy, about 12, 13 years old. I took him all over the UK and used magic and illusions because it's very visual.

And how do you feel about this evening, Sophie, about being finally admitted as you? Oh, I was going was gonna say after all these years things have changed so much. I mean we're talking about 30 years ago the welcoming was wonderful. Do you know what I was emotional. It was, this is for Jenny really. Jenny we should say she's no longer with us. No my darling late friend yeah she died in 2000, what is it, four. So it's quite a moment I imagine for you on that level. It is, I mean I'm really, really happy and but then I go, you know,

I just think Jenny would have loved it. Magician Sophie Lloyd speaking to Emma Barnett. And that's it from us for now, but there will be a new edition of the Global News podcast later. If you would like to comment on this edition or the topics covered in it, do please send us an email. The address is globalpodcast at BBC dot co dot UK. You can also find us on X at BBC World Service. Just use the hashtag global news pod. This edition

was mixed by Abby Wiltshire. The producer was Ella Bicknell. Our editor is Karen Martin. I'm Jackie Leonard. And until next time, goodbye.