Global News Podcast - Israel is on a state of high alert on the first anniversary of the Hamas attacks

Episode Date: October 7, 2024

The Israeli offensive continues against Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon. Huge explosions have again struck southern Beirut. Also: a woman gets a reply to her job application many, many years la...ter.

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello, this is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service, with reports and analysis from across the world. The latest news seven days a week. BBC World Service podcasts are supported by advertising. Life and death were two very realistic co-existing possibilities in my life. I didn't even think I'd make it to like my 16th birthday, to be honest. I grew up being scared of who I was. Any one of us at any time can be affected by mental health and addictions. Just taking that first step makes a big difference.
Starting point is 00:00:35 It's the hardest step. But CAMH was there from the beginning. Everyone deserves better mental health care. To hear more stories of recovery, visit camh.ca. If you're hearing this, you're probably already listening to BBC's award-winning news podcasts. But did you know that you can listen to them without ads? Get current affairs podcasts like Global News, AmeriCast and The Global Story, plus other great BBC podcasts from history to comedy to true crime, all ad-free.
Starting point is 00:01:05 Simply subscribe to BBC Podcast Premium on Apple Podcasts or listen to Amazon Music with a Prime membership. Spend less time on ads and more time with BBC Podcasts. This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Jackie Leonard and in the early hours of Monday, the 7th of October, these are our main stories. Israel is on a state of high alert on the first anniversary of the Hamas attacks. The Israeli offensive continues against Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon. The Russian dissident, Ildar Dadin, has been killed while fighting alongside Ukrainian forces against the
Starting point is 00:01:45 Russian army. And about a quarter of eligible voters cast their ballots in the much-criticised presidential election in Tunisia. Also in this podcast... I just couldn't believe it. My first thought was, how on earth did they find me? But it was just so amazing. It puts me right back to remembering where I was sitting down 50 years ago. I can't believe I remember it. A woman whose job application went missing for 50 years. Israel has carried out more airstrikes on southern districts of Beirut. Soon after, it issued further warnings to civilians
Starting point is 00:02:23 to evacuate parts of the Lebanese capital it considers to be Hezbollah strongholds. Journalists in the city reported two powerful explosions. Residents in southern suburbs have been given an urgent evacuation order. These people have already been displaced. It's all in our memory. Every few years a war comes back, bringing us the same feelings and the same psychological struggles, the same fear. Of course there's fear. I want other countries to talk to Israel and put pressure on them to stop this war and negotiate. Let them deal with it. What is the fault of our people and the children who have died?
Starting point is 00:03:06 They left us with nothing and we've become nothing. No houses, no shops, nothing at all. The Israeli army chief of staff, General Herzli Halevi, said the offensive would not stop, even though most of Hezbollah's leadership had been killed in recent weeks. Sirens have been sounding in northern Israel, including the city of Haifa, in anticipation of further rocket attacks from southern Lebanon. For more on the Sunday evening bombings in Beirut, Niki Schiller spoke to Nafiseh Karnovar from the BBC Persian service, who was in her apartment in Beirut. It seems that this is a new series of airstrikes, exactly like last night. who was in her apartment in Beirut. that there are secondary explosions. This is not clear what is this that has been hit, but some local media speculate that it can be a weapon,
Starting point is 00:04:12 like the one that was hit last night. And until morning, we could hear and see sparks and flashes from that particular location that was badly hit. Just explain the area that is being targeted by the Israeli military. The area that is being hit, it is known as Dahir, which is particularly Hezbollah's stronghold. But also, I should mention that a big part of it, it is residential area. Tonight we went back to the school that was accommodating and sheltering thousands of people, mainly families fled from Dahiye and southern suburbs of Beirut itself.
Starting point is 00:05:01 They told us that because attacks happened around that school that they were sheltering in, now they want to move and evacuate that school and they don't know where to go. Nafisa, while you've been talking, we've seen more explosions, which could be secondary explosions, as you were saying, or indeed new strikes. And this is following a pattern, isn't it,
Starting point is 00:05:23 where the IDF give a warning to people in the area, and then we see sort of an hour, hour and a half later, the actual strikes? Yes, the warnings are coming. But the issue is before releasing Godiz's statement on social media on X, usually by Israeli army spokesperson, because of the network, some people don't receive this and they had very limited time to leave their houses. And if you have a look to the post of IDF, it just came less than an hour ago. One hour is not enough for many people to grab anything from their houses, to come out and giving the fact that most of the streets now in southern suburb of Beirut are being blocked and roads are being damaged. So you can imagine that many people are not able
Starting point is 00:06:21 to take their cars, so they have to walk out from their own foot. Nafis say Kuchnavar. Well, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, Filippo Grandi, who's been visiting Beirut, has said that many of Israel's strikes on Lebanon have violated international humanitarian law. He said he was disheartened by what he called the paralysis of political action to help secure a ceasefire. Unfortunately, many instances of violations of international humanitarian law in the way the airstrikes are conducted that have destroyed or damaged civilian infrastructure, have killed civilians, have impacted humanitarian operations.
Starting point is 00:07:02 A lot of how an operation like this is conducted here needs to be de-conflicted with all parties to the conflict and this needs to be responded by the parties, especially the Israelis, promptly and positively. An IDF spokesman, Peter Lerner, rejected that accusation. I would argue that the IDF conducts its operations within the realm of laws of armed conflict. Our operations are conducted with accompanying legal advisors and those that are responsible for applying the law and implementation of operations. Unfortunately, we're up against a terrorist organisation, a terrorist army that has no regard for any of those laws that you and I
Starting point is 00:07:45 both respect. Israel says it targets military sites and takes steps to avoid harming civilians. Well, Israel is on heightened alert as it marks the first anniversary of the Hamas attack. Its military has refocused on Gaza with troops surrounding Jabalia in the north of the territory to counter what it says are efforts by Hamas to rebuild its operations. Our correspondent John Donison, who is in Jerusalem, sent this report on Sunday evening. Once again, the sirens were sounding in northern Israel as its military shot down more Hezbollah rockets. Later, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visited troops
Starting point is 00:08:28 on the border. A year ago, he said, Israel had suffered a terrible blow, but was now changing reality across the board. He vowed his country would win. Such has been the pace of events elsewhere recently. The war in Gaza has dropped from the headlines, but it's not over. Overnight, Israel bombed a mosque and a school housing displaced people where it said Hamas was operating. At least 26 people were killed, according to Gaza's Ministry of Health. A local grandmother, Umm Mohammed Al-Attar, called for revenge. Please God, defeat Netanyahu and Israel, she cried. My heart is breaking. In northern Gaza, Palestinians were once again fleeing, as the Israeli military said it had surrounded an area in Jabalia where it said Hamas had been regrouping.
Starting point is 00:09:22 That was John Donison. Well, as the Israeli air assault against Lebanon continues, a war of words broke out between France and Israel. It was initiated by a statement from the French President Emmanuel Macron, saying he regretted Benjamin Netanyahu's decision to attack Lebanon. Mr. Macron said he supported calls for an immediate ceasefire, adding that what was urgently needed was a global arms embargo against Israel. In an angry reply, Mr Netanyahu accused the French president of hypocrisy. As Israel fights the forces of barbarism led by Iran, all civilized countries should be standing firmly by Israel's side. Yet President Macron and some other Western leaders are now calling for an arms embargo
Starting point is 00:10:12 against Israel. Shame on them. Is Iran imposing an arms embargo on Hezbollah, on the Houthis, on Hamas, and on its other proxies? Of course not. President Macron called Mr Netanyahu's reaction excessive and detached from the historic friendship between France and Israel. Julian Warricker spoke to Amir Avivi, a former brigadier general in the IDF and the chairman and founder of the think tank Israel's Defense and Security Forum. So how does he assess what the Israelis are doing in Lebanon? I think after two weeks that Israel went on the offensive, Israel managed to topple almost all the leadership of Hezbollah
Starting point is 00:10:55 on the strategic level, but also on the tactical level. Israel launched in the last few days a ground incursion in order to push Hezbollah out of South Lebanon and create a buffer zone that will enable our 60,000 displaced citizens to go back safely home after Hezbollah have been shooting them for 11 months. We had to evacuate them. As I can see, the IDF is fighting very, very effectively. More than 440 terrorists have been killed in South Lebanon in the last two, three days, many of them commanders of Hezbollah terror organization.
Starting point is 00:11:35 And at the moment, things are moving as planned. Hezbollah is not managing to really challenge Israel and react the way many of our scenarios thought will be with massive shooting of rockets and missiles. They did shoot two missiles today that were intercepted by the Israeli Air Force. But other than that, overall, I think that Israel's air defense is managing to deal very, very well with this challenge. You mentioned the Hezbollah fighters killed. The figure of 440 was mentioned on the programme. Can I put some other figures to you?
Starting point is 00:12:09 These are Lebanese authority figures saying that over 1.2 million Lebanese have been displaced. That was a Friday figure, so it might be more than that now. And nearly 2,000 people killed since the resurgence of Israel's conflict began. What do you say to those figures? Well, I think that Israel is trying to minimise civilian casualties. 2,000 killed.
Starting point is 00:12:31 I don't know how many because this is the Lebanese, but they count also the terrorists as civilians. But I must say that what we do is tell the people, get out of the war zone in order to minimize casualties, and this is the best way to do it. You tell them, but you don't give them much warning, and you also sometimes will target places where they might be fleeing towards. So Israel targets only places that are military.
Starting point is 00:12:58 It's true that Hezbollah uses civilians as human shields, places its headquarters in civilian areas, places also the rockets and launchers inside civilian houses. This is how they fight, and this is really terrible. But Israel is defending itself on seven fronts. We're fighting an existential war against terror armies, and nobody asked Lebanon to shoot Israel. They've been shooting us for 11 months.
Starting point is 00:13:26 There's a wider point here about figures. At least four hospitals in Lebanon announced on Friday that they were suspending work because of Israeli strikes, with the World Health Organization pointing to the fact that hospitals and health care workers in Lebanon have seen at least 37 facilities attacked and dozens of medical staff killed. It doesn't change the fact that Israel only attacks military sites
Starting point is 00:13:50 with very, very precise intelligence. Well, it does if health facilities are hit, surely. Again, we have seen in Gaza all the hospitals run by Hamas, full of terrorists. This is the reality. We have to face it. Amir Avivi was talking to Julian Warwicker. Now, turning to some stories from elsewhere in the world. Police in Pakistan say there's been an explosion close to the international airport in Karachi.
Starting point is 00:14:16 Local media say at least one person was killed and several others hurt when a group of foreign nationals was targeted. Caroline Davis reports from Islamabad. Late on Sunday evening, a loud explosion rang out across Karachi. Videos began circulating on social media showing vehicles engulfed in flames close to the city's Jinnah airport. Medical officials confirmed to the BBC that several injured had been admitted to hospital, some in a critical condition. The cause of the blast has not been confirmed by the authorities, although the Baluch Liberation Army, a militant insurgency
Starting point is 00:14:50 group, have said that the explosion is a result of their attack on a convoy of engineers from China. No foreign national has yet been reported injured. That was Caroline Davis. A well-known Russian dissident has been killed fighting alongside Ukrainian forces against Russia. Ildar Dadin was the first person to be sent to a Russian penal colony under new laws which restricted anti-government protests. After his release, he joined the Freedom of Russia battalion, made up of Russians who fight to defend Ukraine. Our correspondent Sarah Rainsford knew Ildar Dadin and told us more about him. Ildar Dadin is, or was, I should say, a Russian political activist who suddenly became
Starting point is 00:15:34 prominent about a decade ago when he was locked up for two and a half years because he had been staging peaceful political protests. And I think his case really, for many people, came to symbolise the intensification of political repression. And now he has been fighting in Ukraine on the side of Ukrainian forces. And now we have news that he was killed in action up in north-eastern Ukraine in the Kharkiv region. I've been told by two separate sources that his colleagues have confirmed that they came under artillery fire. They were pinned down and Ildar Dadin was killed. They described him as a hero. They said he was a man of great dignity who lived his life with dignity and died in the same way. But the volunteer battalion made up of Russian nationals hasn't officially confirmed
Starting point is 00:16:22 it because they say a military operation is still ongoing there. You actually knew him personally, didn't you? You'd spoken to him. Yeah, I met him soon after he came out of prison and he told me then exclusively actually about the horrific torture that he was subjected to in a Russian jail. He had his hands handcuffed behind his back by the prison guards. He was hung from them then until he nearly passed out.
Starting point is 00:16:48 He suffered physical pain and abuse. He was threatened with rape. And I've been talking to him over the past months, in fact, as he's been fighting here in Ukraine. And he was explaining to me why he took up arms. Essentially, he's always described himself as a pacifist. And in fact, he took the call sign Gandhi. But he told me very firmly that he believed that Russia was committing crimes, looting to murder and rape. And he said because of those atrocities, he was forced to take up arms because he had to resist that.
Starting point is 00:17:16 He had to be able to fight what he called the criminal regime of Vladimir Putin. He described very, very difficult conditions in the battalion he was with. He talked about seeing colleagues of his dying in front of him. He said he'd thought about leaving, but he felt his conscience wouldn't allow him because, in fact, he said he felt personally responsible as a Russian citizen for what Russia was doing here in Ukraine. Sarah Rainsford. It was in April last year that war broke out between the Sudanese army and its former ally, the Rapid Reaction Forces, or RSF. Now reports from Sudan say at least 90 civilians have been killed during two days of airstrikes by the Sudanese military as it seeks to regain
Starting point is 00:17:59 ground from the RSF, which controls a region between the capital and Darfur. Our Africa regional editor, Will Ross, told us more. The ones on Saturday targeted two areas in North Kordofan, and this is an area between the capital Khartoum and Darfur, so these are places that are on the road or close to the road. And there had been some reports that the paramilitary rapid support force had been getting some supplies from there with aircraft landing there. Those are local reports. But what we're hearing about the airstrikes is that at least 30 people were killed there in these two areas, Hama al-Sheikh and Abu Zawahir. That's according to an emergency lawyers group, as they're called.
Starting point is 00:18:47 But there are also these reports about an even bigger attack on Friday, and that's in Darfur itself, in North Darfur. And I've seen videos that show the smouldering remains of a market in a place called El Koma, and then many, many bodies wrapped up in cloth waiting to be buried. And this was an attack which people in the area say was, again, an air assault by the Sudanese military with several bombs. In some instances, they're talking about barrel bombs being used, being dropped from Antonov aircraft. Now, the war broke out in April last
Starting point is 00:19:26 year. Tell us more about the push from the army to recapture land. This was a somewhat of a surprise offensive that really took off last week. And this was mainly in the capital Khartoum. And there has been some success for the military there. They've managed to take a key bridge and there are reports that they're trying to join up the two other areas of Khartoum, Bari and Omdurman, and then there are signs from some humanitarian people on the ground that things are getting a bit better there. At the moment, it's kind of coming to the end of the rainy season
Starting point is 00:20:00 and there are fears that generally the whole conflict could start to escalate now as it becomes easier for the different sides to move around. But the situation in Darfur is much the same with the RSF in control of most of the Darfur region, but this ongoing fight for control of El Fasher and great concern over people there with famine spreading and also just the general living conditions for people who are stuck in the camps across Darfur getting worse all the time. And millions have been displaced haven't they? More than 10 million people displaced that's a fifth of the population of Sudan and well over half the population
Starting point is 00:20:44 needs urgent humanitarian help and despite promises from the two sides we haven't seen a really a great change in terms of access and humanitarian aid being able to actually get to these people. That was Will Ross. Still to come. Did she jump or was she pushed? There was a mutual recognition that a change was needed, is how it was rather diplomatically put to me. In Britain, the Prime Minister's Chief of Staff has resigned, the latest setback for Keir Starmer's new Labour government. Life and death were two very realistic coexisting possibilities in my life. I didn't even think I'd make it to like my 16th birthday, to be honest.
Starting point is 00:21:32 I grew up being scared of who I was. Any one of us at any time can be affected by mental health and addictions. Just taking that first step makes a big difference. It's the hardest step. But CAMH was there from the beginning. Everyone deserves better mental health care. To hear more stories of recovery, visit CAMH.ca. If you're hearing this, you're probably already listening
Starting point is 00:21:56 to BBC's award-winning news podcasts. But did you know that you can listen to them without ads? Get current affairs podcasts like Global News, AmeriCast and The Global Story, plus other great BBC podcasts from history to comedy to true crime, all ad-free. Simply subscribe to BBC Podcast Premium on Apple Podcasts or listen to Amazon Music with a Prime membership.
Starting point is 00:22:20 Spend less time on ads and more time with BBC Podcasts. the barring of many opposition candidates, one was jailed days before the vote. According to official media, President Saeed is on course to win nearly 90% of the vote. Just over a quarter of registered voters cast their ballots, a figure described as respectable by the head of Tunisia's electoral authority. Our Middle East regional editor Mike Thompson told us about the people who did stand against Qais Saeed. We've got two candidates. One is Ayashi Zemal, who's promised to restore democracy and freedom. He's the one that you mentioned there who's been jailed. And there's also Zuhair Maghzawi. He's a socially conservative candidate and a former ally of President Kai Saeed. And it's thought other parties will find it difficult to work with him.
Starting point is 00:23:29 And what are the big issues that voters are prioritising? Well, corruption is one of the big ones that many people are concerned about there. And that's what President Kai Saeed came to power saying. He's going to deal with that. And it went down very well with lots of people. He said, look, this government is just not functioning. Things are falling apart. Politicians are self-interested. They're corrupt. And particularly many working class voters, it's thought in Tunisia, that really struck a bell with them. But of course, as we've seen
Starting point is 00:24:00 from demonstrations recently, there are many, many people deeply concerned about human rights abuses in the country and the locking up of just about all of Kai Said's most outspoken critics. And the outcome of this election is said to be predictable. Well, yes, there was a call to boycott the elections. Around five political parties said, look, let's boycott it because it's not free and fair. But more recently, some have stood up and said, look, don't do that. Vote en masse to try and get this man out. Even so, though, I think it's pretty certain there's only one man for the job. That was Mike Thompson. Next to Turkey, where there's anger over the issue of femicide, following the brutal murder of two 19-year-old women on Friday. Hundreds took to the streets on Saturday to protest against what they say is the inaction of the government.
Starting point is 00:24:50 They waved signs saying, Ministry, open your eyes, women were killed here, and chanted, violence will not go unpunished. Emre Temel from the BBC Turkish service told us what happened to those young women. Brutal killing of two women in Istanbul on Friday has stirred nationwide outrage in Turkey. Iqbal Uzuner and Aysegül Halil, two 19-year-old women, were murdered by same-age Semih Çelik. He jumped off the historic Edirnekapı ramparts in Istanbul, dying by suicide on the same day, and there were horrific details regarding his murders.
Starting point is 00:25:24 Çelik's father stated in his testimony that his child had undergone psychological treatment five times, disappeared two times, and attempted suicide before. And he also stated that one of the murdered women was Çelik's girlfriend, while the other was a schoolmate. Neighbors and acquaintances from the school indicated that Çelik was obsessed with both girls. Police found drawings at Çelik's home and in the drawings a naked woman's body was seen to be dismembered. An Istanbul court issued a broadcast ban on the incident which also caused the public outrage. But there have been quite serious protests, haven't there?
Starting point is 00:26:00 Yes, in response to the call of lots of feminist organisations, women in Turkey have taken to the streets over these brutal femicides at the weekend. And the biggest one was organised by We Will Stop Femicide platform. They organised a demonstration in Istanbul yesterday. Hundreds of women gathered around this Adrianapol gate in the Fatih district in Istanbul, where the murder took place. And there were lots of protests across the country at the weekend. So just how big an issue is violence against women in Turkey? It's an issue,
Starting point is 00:26:32 I'm afraid, which is bigger and bigger. In July 2021, Turkey formally withdrew from the Istanbul Convention, the Council of Europe's Convention on Preventing and Combating Violence Against Women and Domestic Violence. And the advocacy groups say this move was a major setback for women in the country. On the other hand, Turkey was the first Council of Europe member country to sign the convention back in 2011. However, Turkish government and its supporters have said convention threatens, as they call, family values and normalizes homosexuality. These claims, which have been echoed by several governments, including Poland and Hungary, to justify their attempts to roll back rights. Last year, opposition parties voted to bring back the convention. However, President Erdogan was elected again, and the leader of the main opposition, Republican People's Party,
Starting point is 00:27:21 Özgür Özel, called all political parties to vote for Turkey's reinstatement of the convention at the parliament on Tuesday. However, it seems unlikely for President Erdoğan's Justice and Development Party to bring the convention back. That was Emre Temel of the BBC Turkish service. A teenage boy has died after being stabbed more than 50 times and then set on fire in the southern French city of Marseille. Prosecutors say the killing was part of a drugs gang feud and led to a further killing just days later. Here's our Europe regional editor Paul Moss. The people of Marseille are all too accustomed to drug-related violence. It left nearly 50 people dead there last year. Earlier this year, President
Starting point is 00:28:03 Emmanuel Macron swamped the city with police as part of a special operation intended to bring down the major players. And yet the dealing and the killing continue. The latest round began when a 15-year-old boy was hired by one drugs gang to set fire to the door of a rival, an act intended to intimidate. But the boy was spotted by other members of the rival gang, and they stabbed and burned him to death. The original gang then paid a 14-year-old to carry out a revenge attack. He hired a taxi, but the driver refused to stop and wait while he shot the man he was targeting. So the boy allegedly shot the driver dead instead. At a news conference on Sunday, prosecutor Nicolas Besson described these killings as unprecedented savagery, and he bemoaned the ever lower age of those involved in
Starting point is 00:28:54 the drugs trade. Last year, we had young victims, often collateral victims. We had perpetrators and we noticed that they were getting younger. This time we're dealing with the very young, as the two incidents involved 14 and 15 year olds. Prosecutors say that the accused boy had been in the care of social services since he was nine years old and that both his parents were in prison for drugs-related offences. By contrast, the taxi driver who was killed had never been involved with drugs. He was an amateur football player, driving a taxi to make money for his family. He was, the prosecutor said, just doing his job. Paul Moss.
Starting point is 00:29:39 Here in Britain, the Prime Minister's Chief of Staff has resigned, the latest setback for Keir Starmer's new Labour government. Sue Gray's resignation follows repeated criticism of her role. Here's our political editor Chris Mason. Did she jump or was she pushed? There was a mutual recognition that a change was needed, is how it was rather diplomatically put to me. In truth, many in government had felt for some time her position was increasingly untenable, and will hope her ousting and the wider rejig will sharpen the government's sense of purpose and cut the number of own goals. The new appointments are likely to give the operation
Starting point is 00:30:16 a sharper political edge. Some Labour figures there were privately jittery that all this looks like the leakers have won, as one put it to me. Labour made much of offering an alternative to the chaos of recent Conservative administrations, and yet within weeks there was backbiting and infighting. The Prime Minister will hope this marks the end of it. That was Chris Mason. And finally, it's something that everyone looking for work has gone through, that agonising wait between submitting a job application and hearing back. But one woman from Lincolnshire in eastern England who applied to be a stunt motorcycle rider in 1976 has only just got a reply. She's now 70. Charlotte Simpson takes up the story.
Starting point is 00:31:10 Tizzi Hodson had high hopes for her application. At the time, it wasn't a career that many considered suitable for women, so she worded it carefully to hide her sex. She'd even said she didn't mind how many bones she might break. Half a century later, her original application appeared on her doorstep, with a handwritten note saying, late delivery by Staines Post Office, before explaining the letter had been stuck behind a post office drawer. I just couldn't believe it. My first thought was, how on earth did they find me? But it was just so amazing. It puts me right back to remembering where I was sitting down 50 years ago.
Starting point is 00:31:40 I can't believe I remember it. I remember writing the letter, being so excited, because I was sure so long as they did think I was a male, I might get a hope of a stunt riding position, but I didn't realise I never got the letter. The setback certainly didn't stunt Titsy's pursuit of a daredevil career. After moving to Africa, she became a snake handler, horse whisperer, an aerobatic pilot and a flying instructor. Charlotte Simpson. And that's it from us for now, but there will be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later. If you'd like to comment on this edition or the topics covered in it, do please send us an email.
Starting point is 00:32:15 The address is globalpodcast at bbc.co.uk. You can also find us on X at Global News Pod. This edition was mixed by Martin Baker. The producer was Liam McSheffery. Our editor is Karen Martin. I'm Jackie Leonard. And until next time, goodbye. If you're hearing this, you're probably already listening to BBC's award-winning news podcasts. But did you know that you can listen to them without ads? Get current affairs podcasts like Global News, AmeriCast and The Global Story, plus other great BBC podcasts from history to comedy to true crime, all ad-free. Simply subscribe to BBC Podcast Premium on Apple Podcasts or listen to Amazon Music with a Prime membership.
Starting point is 00:33:05 Spend less time on ads and more time with BBC Podcasts.

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