Global News Podcast - Israel 'outraged' after UK sanctions far-right ministers

Episode Date: June 11, 2025

Israel says it's "outraged" by sanctions imposed by the UK and four other countries on ministers Ben-Gvir and Smotrich for "inciting violence." Also: Assad's Syrian prison enforcers, and recording the sounds of glaciers.

This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Valerie Sanderson and in the early hours of Wednesday the 11th of June these are our main stories. Britain, Norway, Australia, Canada and New Zealand have sanctioned two far-right Israeli government ministers for their inflammatory comments on Gaza and the West Bank. President Trump says the National Guard will remain in Los Angeles until there is no danger, as more troops and marines arrive to quell immigration protests. A vigil has been taking place in the Austrian city of Graz after 10 people were shot dead in a school with the suspected perpetrator then killing himself.

Also in this podcast... Our superiors would say torture them, don't let them sleep at night, put them in a grave if you want to, bury them alive if you want to. We hear from President Assad's Syrian prison enforcers. In our earlier podcast, we brought you news that Britain has sanctioned two far-right Israeli government ministers for their inflammatory comments on Gaza and the West Bank. Norway, Australia, Canada and New Zealand have also imposed sanctions on the security minister Itamar Ben-Guevier and the finance minister Bezalel Smotrich who oppose the delivery of aid into Gaza and support

the expansion of illegal settlements in the West Bank. They are now banned from entering the UK and will have any assets in the country frozen. The British Foreign Minister, David Lammy, explained why. These two individuals have been inciting violence against Palestinian people for months. They have been encouraging egregious abuses of human rights. This has to stop and the settler violence that we've seen in the West Bank particularly is entirely unacceptable. Israel has called the decision outrageous. Yishaf Laisha has advised Mr Ben Gavir and

gave this response to the BBC's Ben Wright. My reaction is that it's a sad day for Western civilization when the formerly great country of England and the UK and other countries have completely succumbed to the jihadist narrative. Just as the streets of London are succumbing to jihad, so too has the government stance. And now instead of defending Israel, which is the lone Jewish state that is constantly under attack from radical Islam, the UK has joined in the wrong side to fight against the Jewish state, to try to shrink it and destroy it, and now to delegitimize its government. Of course, in the end, what will happen is that delegitimization will boomerang onto England and will continue to shrink and

Continue to suffer from being itself taken over by jihadism our listeners would not recognize that Characterization and the government certainly would reject it very strongly, but let me read you a quote from the Foreign Secretary What do you mean by what is by your listeners? There's millions of British people many Many people disagree with you with your characterisation. You know everybody that listens to you. You have one type of person out there. There are millions of people in the UK that are sad about what has happened today and where this government is leading them. And I get emails from them all the time. Let me read you a quote from David Lammy, the Foreign Secretary. He said,

Ittema Ben-Ghavir and Bezalel Smotrich have incited extremist violence and serious abuses of Palestinian human rights. These actions are not acceptable. This is why we have taken action now to hold those responsible to account. David Lammy should be renamed David Lamy, because his words are lame. He is taking the victim and blaming the victim, probably because they're in either the pay or frightened by a jihad, or they have a very sick understanding of who the good guy and who the bad guy is in this world. Ben-Gabir has called for Gazans to be resettled from the territory, home to 2.1 million people. Every single war that has happened in the last year, there have been refugees that the world has helped. Millions of people leave in the Ukraine, in Syria.

There's only one group of refugees in this world that the UK wants them to stay put and die at the hands of the jihad and at the hands of the army that's trying to defend itself. And that's the Palestinians, which are being used as pawns by your government in order for them to die so that they could blame Israel and suck up to Hamas. And that's exactly what's happening right now. And this idiotic framing of the situation, instead of saving Arabs, saving Palestinians by helping them find refuge somewhere else. No, there's only one group of people that you want to die at the hands of the war and

at the hands of the jihad. So I reject these lame, lamey language that your secretary there says because at the end of the day, he is not interested in their safety Palestinians, but in their death so he could suck up to his friends. Mr. Fleischer, the UK is one of Israel's oldest allies. And along with Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway, several Western countries, natural friends of yours are now urging Israel to change course, to stop the war, let aid into Gaza. Does any of what is being said today with the imposition of these sanctions give you any pause for thought? Absolutely. It's making me think how sad the state of

affairs is and how confused these countries have become and how their moral compass has been completely broken. I would say why don't you guys just mind your own business, fix your own country and let us fight our war so that we could destroy the people that seek to destroy us. Yesha Fleischer talking there to Ben Wright. Well as the political row over sanctions raises tensions between Israel and many Western countries, there have been more deaths in Gaza. Twenty people were reported to have been killed in another shooting related to aid distribution in the territory.

The Israeli military, the IDF, says it's investigating. Our Middle East regional editor, Sebastian Ascher, is in Jerusalem and I first asked him about the latest detail on the incident. Well again, I mean around the distribution of aid there's been more violence at one of these sites, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation in Rafah, in the south of Gaza, where we've seen almost every day since it's been in operation there have been deadly incidents. There was another one, at least three people were killed. Again, the exact circumstances are a bit unclear, but I think it's interesting and important to say that it's not just happening there.

There is another mechanism which is supervised by Israel with trucks that are coming in. UN aid comes through a crossing. It's passed through the Israeli army and then it goes to other aid agencies, mostly FLOWER. These trucks have been coming in about 100 a day. There's been looting and violence around them and again this has happened. There is reports we were getting from my witnesses but several saying that Israeli troops opened fire but not just them, local armed gunmen also opened fire and we've seen that in the last couple of days. So a real sense of chaos and violence. And tell us more about Israel's response to the imposition of sanctions. Well, the Israeli foreign minister has described the sanctions as outrageous and has said that

the Israeli government, there'll be a meeting next week when it will decide on its response. So it's not moving quickly about this. As you'd expect from the two men who've been sanctioned, Ben-Gavir and Smotraich, they've come out with very strong dismissive comments, particularly against the UK. Ben-Gavir said, we survived Pharaoh, we can survive Stama, referring to the British Prime Minister. What's important, just to note briefly, is that they are far-right voices. Many in Israel really don't share their views. But it's important to remember, as I say, that these are extremist voices, but they

are key members of the government. They are both ministers. One is the National Security Minister. One is the Finance Minister. So what impact could this have, if any, do you think, on the stability of the government? I don't think it will have any impact, to be honest at all, as I say. I think that the Israeli government, as it stands at the moment, I mean, has its own issues. I mean, watch this space. There will be moves in the coming days, but not by Ben Gavir or Smotrich, by ultra-Orthodox parties, but are very angry about the draft law for ultra-Orthodox men to have to serve as conscripts in the army.

That could lead to the fall of this coalition. Sebastien Ascher in Jerusalem. Hundreds of mourners have been holding a candlelit vigil for 10 people killed in a school shooting in the Austrian city of Graz on Tuesday morning. Local police said the perpetrator was a 21-year-old Austrian citizen and a former student at the school who acted alone and then killed himself. Our correspondent Bethany Bell was at the scene. What we know, the authorities have told us about the perpetrator, is that he is a 21-year-old

Austrian citizen from an area just outside of Graz. He attended the school, the school that I'm standing in front of now, as a student himself. We're told that he didn't actually complete his studies here. And what we know the police saying, they got the alert around 10 o'clock local time this morning. They believe that the shooter had two weapons that he used to shoot. And we understand from media reports that a number of the people who were injured were shot in the legs and then that the shooter took his own life in a school toilet. This is a time of deep anxiety, sadness and shock to the people here. I was speaking to

a woman who lived just around the corner and she said it's almost inconceivable to imagine such a thing happening in our town here like this. It's a quiet place, it's almost inconceivable to imagine such a thing happening in our town here like this. It's a quiet place. It's safe. People are nice. The school is nice. I can't fathom this happening here. There's a sense of incredulity and people coming very solemnly to lay flowers at the

school. Austria, until today, had been spared the kind of mass shootings that a number of countries have seen. There has been violence at schools in Austria in the past, but much on a far smaller scale than what we saw today. There was a shooting in Vienna in 2020 where a convicted jihadist ran through the town shooting. Four people were killed in that.

Today, the casualties are much higher. This is something that has deeply shocked people and the fact that it could have happened in a school is I think going to cause a lot of soul-searching here. Could more have been done to try to prevent this? Was this man's mental health something people were aware of? Was it a mental health issue? Many, many questions being asked tonight. Should Austria's gun laws be tightened? But for now, the big, big feeling from everyone I've been speaking to is that there is a sense of shared grief with those who have lost their loved ones.

Beth Nibel. President Trump says the National Guard will remain in Los Angeles until there is no danger. As we record this podcast, extra troops and Marines have arrived in the city and more are expected to quell the immigration protests. Except, according to the mayor of LA, the unrest is now limited to a few blocks downtown, not the wider city. But speaking at a key military base at Fort Bragg on Tuesday evening, Mr Trump stood by his decision. I've deployed thousands of National Guard troops and hundreds of Marines to protect federal law enforcement from the attacks of a vicious and violent mob. Generations of

army heroes did not shed their blood on distant shores only to watch our country be destroyed by invasion and third world lawlessness here at home like is happening in California. I spoke to our senior North America correspondent John Sudworth who was in LA on Tuesday evening. We were in the downtown area a couple of hours ago, normal scenes, a small crowd gathering outside the Metropolitan Detention Centre where some of the arrested immigrants have been taken to. That's been a focal point for the protests over the past few days. These are small crowds, these protests are in very limited isolated areas of

the city. Having left that area we've been told that there has been some sort of attempt by the police there to move some of those protesters back. Once again the firing we're told of pepper spray and rubber bullets. We've moved out of that area because we've come into some of the immigrant neighborhoods in the south of the city where the raids have taken place. I've just spoken to the owner of a car wash. He said six of his staff were detained on Sunday and Monday. And he said that far from third world lawlessness that you heard President Trump

refer to there, these were hardworking Mexican immigrants. One of his staff members he said had been with the business for 18 years. The California Governor Gavin Newsom has filed an emergency request hasn't he to block the Trump administration from using military forces on immigration raids. So they're pushing back aren't they in the courts? They are pushing back. They have both challenged the way that these troops are being used,

but also the very act of deploying them. The state of California, Governor Gavin Newsom, is arguing that the legal mechanism that President Trump has used is actually being abused in this case. To send in the National Guard, the White House has had to claim that this is an insurrection, a rebellion. That's the threshold that needs to be met and the point of civic leaders in this city and the governor in the state of California is that what is happening,

although sometimes violent, falls a long, long way short of anything you would call a rebellion. And why does this stand off in LA matter so much, not just to California but to the rest of the US? Because of that wider principle, you know, the deployment of military force on US soil to uphold US law is, for very good reasons, a very rare thing indeed. The principle is that it shouldn't normally be used except in exceptional circumstances. So the governor of California believes that the law is being tested, that this is a manufactured crisis and many people believe that a precedent has been broken by the deployment of these forces

and that's why so much is at stake and why ultimately of course this will now be decided in the courts. John Sudworth in Los Angeles. There's been a backlash from medics in the United States after a decision by the Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to fire every expert on the National Vaccine Advisory Panel. Mr. Kennedy said he was getting rid of the 17 staff members at the Advisory Committee on Immunisation Practices, a group that recommends who receives vaccines,

because it is little more than a rubber stamp for any vaccine. I asked our health correspondent Jim Reid about how this move has been received, given Mr Kennedy's history of scepticism about some vaccinations. If you think back to the confirmation hearings that were run earlier this year before Robert Kennedy took up his post, he said throughout those that he was not an anti-vaxxer, that he believed people had a right to have vaccines if they want to. But certainly some in the public health community have had very many doctors and public health experts are incredibly cautious and worried about what he might do, especially around the vaccine area. The group he ran for eight

years, a group called the Children's Health Defence, repeatedly cast doubt on the safety and efficacy, for example, of childhood vaccines. Kennedy himself, like I say, is consistently stressed that he's not anti-vaccine. But the concern is that his views that he held, quite public views he held before being given this job, are now going to start to influence policy going forward. And of course, this is crucial, isn't it, for the United States? We're talking about hundreds of millions of people. That's right. And when you look at the reaction to this, I'd say it's split on political lines and medical lines as well. So one of the controversial things about this is that

when he was going through those confirmation hearings, he seemed to make a pledge to Senator Bill Cassidy, who's a Republican as well from Louisiana, that he would not make changes to this panel. Now, Mr. Cassidy has been tweeting since the decision was made to sack all 17 members, saying that the fear now is that the membership is going to be filled up with people who know nothing, this is in his words, about vaccines other than deep suspicion. And some in the public health community as well have been very concerned about this. So Dr. Sean O'Leary, for example, he's an infectious disease expert, described this as manufactured chaos by Mr. Kennedy. Now,, from Mr Kennedy's point of view, he has said in

the past and he said again this week that this panel has been, in his words, played with persistent conflicts of interest. The question is going to be what this does now for the vaccination programme going forward. He has said, this is Robert Kennedy, that he has no plans or desire really to take people's vaccines away. But this panel does have the potential to and the power to change recommendations on immunisations for hundreds of millions of Americans. So I think the thing that doctors, public health officials, public health experts will be watching really closely is a the makeup of this panel when we get the membership presumably later on this month and then what those recommendations are going to start to look like going forward when it comes to things like who should be receiving childhood vaccines

who should be receiving the covid vaccine in the united states. Jim Reid, Still to come, why the sound of glass ears is the way to listen to global warming. When Syria's President Bashar al-Assad was overthrown in December last year, it brought an end to a dynastic dictatorship that had lasted for more than half a century. Towards the end of that span, during the 13 years of a civil war, the Assad regime detained more than a million people. Human rights groups estimate more than 100,000 of those are still missing. Now, dozens of former officials across various ranks have spoken to the BBC about their role as regime enforcers. Sara Abedat reports on this rare first-hand testimony from Syria's notorious prisons.

This is my solitary cell, number 21. Shadi Haroun has returned to Mazze prison, formerly run by Assad's Air Force intelligence. He was held there twice over the course of nearly 10 years as a political prisoner. They would suspend people on this door. They'd pull us up and we'd be on our toes. It'd last 30 minutes and then you'd pass out. Assad's prisons were notorious for their widespread torture. Now, a BBC investigation has tracked down 40 former insiders of various ranks,

the people collectively complicit in what have been described by the United Nations as crimes against humanity. Our superiors would say, torture them, don't let them sleep at night, put them in a grave if you want to, bury them alive if you want to. The men we are speaking to offer rare first-hand accounts about what happened. We agreed to conceal their identities given the value of their testimonies. This man, who we're calling Zayn, was a high-ranking intelligence official. Officers could be tempted with benefits like a house, a car, an office, and things like

that, the power, the authority, so kill, do whatever and we will have your back. But thankfully, I didn't get involved in that. Did they give you those things? Of course, they gave me a car on day one. Officers like Zayn, who worked in an intelligence branch with an underground prison, often tried to distance themselves or deny responsibility for the regime's direct violence. My silence? If I spoke one word, I would sentence myself to death.

You were highly ranked, maybe higher than others working there. Yes, I was the second in command in that branch, right below the head of the branch. You didn't try? No, I didn't. Only one was willing to admit their direct role. When the prisoners heard my name, they would tremble. This man, who were calling Hossam, became a prison guard in Sayednaya prison during his national military service. He defected in 2012.

I showed them no mercy at all. The prisoners would go back to their cells bloody and exhausted. I felt that I had authority. I felt like I was the president of this prison. The chief of staff to the head of Sayednaya prison told us how this torture was carried out in part to get forced confessions. They would keep them under harsh torture day and night until they admitted to killing so and so. On that basis, they were taken to the field court where no questions are asked. Trials at the field court for the prisoners often ended with death sentences, signed off by officials acting on behalf of President Assad.

Hossam says he played a direct role in executions and spoke about his involvement in a botched hanging. I grasped the prisoner and I pulled him down. He still didn't die. So another guard who's bigger and stronger said, go, I will do it. Before he died, he said one thing, I'm going to tell God what you did. You might not believe me if I told you it's been two or three years since I looked in a mirror.

I can't but to look at myself." Of all the men we spoke to, Hossam was the only one who said he felt responsible for his actions. Most insisted they were just following orders. That report was part of a new BBC documentary called Surviving Syria's Prisons. The humanitarian situation in Sudan is dire and getting worse. That's the latest warning from the World Food Programme. It says that areas south of the capital Khartoum are now at risk of famine as conflict pushes the country deeper into crisis. The UN agency says resources aren't meeting soaring needs, with millions of people displaced by the ongoing civil war.

BBC's Camilla Mills told us more. We already knew that there was famine already being declared in five areas across Sudan. This is new that there is potential the high risk of famines just south of the capital. Now the WFP, the World Food Programme, they've gained access to the area. This is the first time they've been in for quite some time because of the ongoing fighting between the army and the rapid support forces, the paramilitaries. They've said that they're doing everything that they can to try and help the population come back from the brink of famine but they don't have the

resources, they don't have the funds, they don't have the money, they don't have the boots on the ground. They say that it looks like life is slowly starting to return to Khartoum now that the fighting has kind of died down around that area. But the needs are immense. There's widespread destruction from the ongoing fighting. There's limited access to water, healthcare, electricity. And there's the fear that the RSF could at any point potentially try and come back and recapture Khartoum. So what is the situation in the civil war in the country? So it's been going on since April

2023. So over two years of fighting, there've been huge spikes in the fighting in al-Fasha, which is one of the main regions a couple of months ago. Zamzam, which was the main displacement camp there, that was taken over, was seized by the RSF, 400,000 people were internally displaced. Now since the start of this war about 150,000 people have died and 13 million people are believed to have been displaced. The UN is calling this the world's biggest humanitarian disaster. And on top of all of this, there are now concerns that the country is also on the brink of a huge cholera outbreak because of the lack of access to water, because water infrastructure has been attacked in drone attacks.

And the civilian population has suffered hugely through this time, hasn't it? The civilian population have taken the brunt of this. The UN Women's Network, they said earlier this year that women's bodies have become the battleground of the civil war in Sudan. And are there any attempts regionally to negotiate between these two sides? Yes, so the African Union has been involved even further afield, globally, the US, the UK, they have condemned what's going on. But what needs to happen is there has to be a political way to peace, not a military way to peace.

Camilla Mills. Wales Song has long fascinated humans. Now new research says as well as speaking to each other Wales might actually be trying to communicate with us. Researchers from the SETI Institute in California documented humpbacks producing large bubble rings during interactions with people which they don't do with other Wales. One of the researchers, Jodie Fidiani, discussed the findings with Justin Webb. For a long time we've had dolphins bow riding or wake riding. That's a form of interaction that happens with humans and with boats. And this is pretty exciting that these whales are actually,

seem to be producing these bubble rings, and now bubble rings have been known to be produced by them in a way of foraging. Now they would produce these spirals of bubbles and it would corral their fish prey so that they can easily consume them. But this however is happening not on foraging grounds, there's not fish around and they seem to just be doing it near humans. I mean my dog definitely communicates with me. I'm absolutely convinced of it. I mean, in other words, I suppose we're kind of convinced ourselves, haven't we, more broadly, that animals do communicate with us in a way that proper scientists like you might be more skeptical

about. Yeah, I think the fascinating thing about the rings is obviously between animals in the sea and you know animals on land, in this case we're talking about ourselves, the sound doesn't particularly travel well across the water-air barrier, the intercept, so bubbles, the fact that they rise up and if they're doing it near the boats, it kind of is the best way to communicate. It would be a really interesting adaptation. Jodie Fridiani. And now... The sounds glaciers make and crucially what can those sounds tell us? That's become the passion project of the environmental composer

Konstantin Vlasis in light of the threat glaciers face from climate change. Scientists say Iceland's glaciers, which cover 10% of the country, could lose half their volume by 2100. Konstantin has been to some of Iceland's highest peaks recording sounds for a project he calls a way to listen to global warming. Let's hear some more of them. That's the sound of actual ice flowing. And I think for me in my work, I'm really interested in what sort of stories do glacier sounds tell us. do glacier sounds tell us?

That sound that we just listened to, the kind of rumbling and shifting, that's actually the ice moving. So I've got a special microphone that's attached directly to the ice. And while you might not be able to see glaciers flow in real time, you can listen to them shifting. What you're hearing is glacial air. And I'm recording this with a hydrophone, so an underwater microphone.

But I think one of the most beautiful aspects of this sound and this kind of story is that all the chirps and kind of melodic gestures and really weird pitches that you're hearing has a specific kind of narrative. I think this is certainly one story that glaciers can tell and one story that glaciers are a part of Constantine Blassis. And that's it from us for now but there will be a new edition of the Global News podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, send us an email. The address is globalpodcast.bbc.co.uk. You can also find us on X at BBC World Service.

Use the hashtag globalnewspod. This edition was mixed by Caroline Driscoll, the producers were Alison Davis and Guy Pitt. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Valerie Sanderson. Until next time, bye bye.