Global News Podcast - Moscow responds angrily to Biden's Ukraine weapons decision

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

Joe Biden's decision to allow Ukraine to use US long-range missiles sparks angry response from Moscow. Also: Delhi bans diesel trucks because of air pollution, and how organisations in Central African Republic are using radio to combat mpox disinformation.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Good, bad billionaire from the BBC World Service. The podcast exploring the minds, the motives and the money of some of the world's richest individuals. Listen now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts. This is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Nick Mars and at 14 Hours GMT on Monday the 18th of November, these are our main stories. The Kremlin says Washington's decision to allow Ukraine to use US missiles to strike deep into Russia is adding fuel to the flames. Leaders of the G20 group of the most powerful nations are gathering in Brazil,

with the imminent return of Donald Trump to the White House looming large. Also in this podcast, a 24-hour protest is underway in Georgia against last month's election result won by the pro-Russian Georgian Dream Party. We're standing in a very serious crossroads. We'll either end up in Russia or we'll break free from this once and for all and become a member of the free world. And how radio is emerging as a key weapon in the fight to control MPOCs in the Central

African Republic. And also, the ex-Exodus. Could Blue Sky be the new go-to social media app? We begin with developments in the war in Ukraine. The outgoing US President Joe Biden has reportedly given the go-ahead for Kiev to use American-supplied long-range missiles to strike inside Russia. Washington apparently wants to limit the use of such weapons known as Atacams to the defence of Ukrainian forces inside Russia's Kursk region. The Ukrainian MP Ina Sovson says in the light of Russia's latest round of attacks, it will help a great deal. 120 missiles fired yesterday. They were fired mainly from fighter jets. Those fighter jets have been launched from some airfields. Many of them are now within the distance that Ukraine can target with the missiles that

we finally are allowed to use. This means that probably there is a better chance that they will not destroy the rest of the Ukrainian energy infrastructure. So it is a huge difference. Meanwhile, Moscow has been reacting. The Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, said it would pour fuel on the flames and escalate the conflict. President Putin has already explained and explained it very simply. The fact is that these strikes are not carried out by Ukraine. These strikes are carried out by those countries that gave permission, because the targets

of guidance and other services are not carried out by the Ukrainian military. This is done by military specialists from these same Western countries, and this radically changes the modality of their involvement in the conflict. This is the danger and provocative essence of the situation. We'll get more on the view from Moscow in a moment, but first let's look at what the ATTACOM system would mean for Ukraine's ability to defend itself. Our security correspondent, Gordon Carrera, gave us his assessment. A boost, but not a game changer.

I think that's the way to think about it, partly because there may be a relatively limited supply of these weapons. But what they allow Ukraine to do is if you like deeper strikes behind the front lines, because they can be fired at about 200 mile range, which means you can hit troops building up for an offensive or arms depots or supply lines which are being used to support a push.

And the big expectation is that Russia is preparing a big push to try and move Ukrainian forces out of the Kursk region of Russia, which Ukraine moved into a few months ago. It's planning to use North Korean troops potentially to help do that. And this will give Ukraine a better chance of defending that territory by hitting the Russian forces coming at them from behind, if you like, where they're building up. So that will help, but it doesn't necessarily change the course of the war overall. And as I said, because we don't know how many weapons there are, they're thought to be in short supply.

It's hard to know for sure even the tactical impact in that region. But it's certainly something the Ukrainians feel they need. There's the battle which looks like it's looming over the Kursk region, which is within Russia, and then there is the front line which is in Ukraine, where Russia has been pushing forward. And I think the problem for Ukraine there is that it's been on the back foot. Russia has been making slow and steady advances at great military cost. But one of the problems

for Ukraine is that it had hoped to draw some forces away from there. By taking Kursk, that hasn't really worked. They maybe are hoping that they can hold on to Kursk in case there are negotiations next year to try and trade some of that territory. So the two regions are related, but certainly Ukraine has been on the back foot. As we heard earlier, the Kremlin spokesperson, Mr Peskov, suggested that it won't necessarily be Ukraine doing the targeting, but the countries which give permission for the use of those long-range weapons. So what does our Russia editor, Steve Rosenberg, make of those comments? Well, this is an argument that Vladimir Putin has been making for months now, that in order to use these long-range Atacom's missiles, it requires foreign forces to actually use

them and that that changes the whole essence, the nature of the conflict in the eyes of the Kremlin. So I thought it was interesting, Dmitry Peskov, when he made his comments today, I mean compared to some of the Russian politicians who were speaking yesterday, one of whom said that this was a step towards World War Three, he was quite muted really. He said he noted the reports coming out of America about President Biden's decision to allow Ukraine to strike Russia with these long-range missiles. He said if such a decision has been taken, then this would mean a whole new spiral of

tension. And then he added the phrase about accusing the Biden administration of adding fuel to the fire. Now, Western leaders, of course, would accuse Russia of adding the fuel to the fire after a war that's lasted for nearly a thousand days and considering that, you know, Russia is now deploying North Korean troops in part of the war zone. But the narrative as created and delivered here in Moscow is completely different. Russia is portrayed as the victim, not as the aggressor. And since the Kremlin controls the media here, controls the narrative, this

is the idea, this is the message which is put out to the Russian people. I mean, Moscow could choose to escalate this in some way or another, some kind of diplomatic expulsions, that kind of thing. But maybe from what you're saying, Moscow could choose to escalate this in some way or another, some kind of diplomatic expulsions, that kind of thing. But maybe from what you're saying, it will choose not to escalate, particularly before President Trump comes into the White House. Yeah, I think that's possible. You know, Vladimir Putin knows very well that President-elect Trump is someone who has expressed himself more sceptically about the idea of US military assistance for Kiev.

In two months, he'll be in the White House. That's the first thing. The second thing is Putin said back in June, I think it was, that if Western long-range missiles were used to strike deep inside of Russia, Russia would take its decisions how to react based on the corresponding threat or the appropriate threat. That gives him a little bit of wriggle room. Arming Western adversaries to strike Western targets that's an idea that was put out then that's an idea

that actually the leader of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko a close Putin ally repeated to me in an interview a couple of weeks ago that it's possible if for example he said the Houthi rebels came to Putin and asked for missiles Putin might not say no. Steve Rosenberg in Moscow. Tensions over Ukraine will no doubt form part of the discussions as leaders of the D20 group of the world's most powerful nations meet in Brazil for their annual summit. The two men likely to play the biggest role in resolving the conflict, Vladimir Putin and incoming US President Donald Trump, will not be there.

Speaking at a news conference in Rio de Janeiro on Sunday evening, the UN Secretary General António Guterres said G20 members were in a unique position. Our times are tumultuous and we need to race much faster to tackle fundamental common challenges. The threats we face today are interconnected and international and they have come to Rio with a simple message G20 leaders must lead and G20 countries by definition have tremendous economic clout and they yield massive diplomatic leverage. They must use it to tackle key global problems. Our correspondent Ioni Wells is at the meeting in Rio de Janeiro. I asked her how much Donald

Trump's absence will be felt. There certainly is, I think, a notable absence here of Donald Trump. He is top of many people's discussions at the summit and that's because when it comes to Ukraine of course there is still the question of whether a Donald Trump administration would continue the same level of support for Ukraine that the Biden-Harris administration has done, particularly because a lot of his supporters were quite angry at the fact that the US was sending billions and billions of dollars to Ukraine, some of them wanting that to be spent in the US instead.

So I think there is still this unanswered question, really, of what support might look like under Donald Trump, especially in the context of the news that we've had overnight of President Biden authorising the use of those long-range missiles to be fired into targets in Russia, as opposed to just being used in Ukraine. I think also one of the sort of ways in which Donald Trump is shaping discussions here is around China of course as well.

As you say he has threatened to impose significant tariffs on Chinese imports to the US which would potentially have huge repercussions for the Chinese economy but also the availability of certain products in the US as well. So I think that is certainly something which is looming over this conference particularly as China's President Xi Jinping is expected to meet the UK Prime Minister today for the first time in six years. And Ioni, what's on the formal agenda? Well on the formal agenda are things like tackling climate change. President Lula of Brazil is very keen to try and shore up more international support for his Amazon fund, which is something that Joe Biden actually pledged yesterday

while on a visit to the Amazon to do. Again, I think part of Joe Biden's attempt to sort of shape his legacy and make climate change and tackling deforestation quite part of that, potentially sending a bit of signal there as well to his successor, Donald Trump, who has been more sceptical of climate change and of some of the money being spent on projects like that. Also, things like tackling global hunger and poverty as well. President Lula has also suggested or tried

to ask other countries to back his proposal to introduce a sort of minimum tax on the world's richest people. Now that is something which some countries have previously got on board with, others not so much. So there are, I think as ever with these G20 summits, some room for sort of agreement, but also lots of room for disagreement, given the spectrum of political opinion that you have in the room. I knew wells in Brazil. There are plenty of face masks being worn on the streets of the Indian capital Delhi at the moment, not due to a resurgence of coronavirus, but because

of the terrible air pollution. The authorities have responded by suspending public building projects and banning more cars from the roads. Yashwant Kumar, a traffic constable in the capital, is enforcing the tightened restrictions, including the movement of vehicles. Delhi has banned BS4 diesel cars and their entry is prohibited from here. Any vehicle which is banned is asked to turn back. Old people, children, and those with respiratory and cardiovascular ailments have also been told to stay indoors. Our reporter, Jugal R. Purohit, is in Delhi.

Walking around is frankly not advisable at this point. The advisory is to remain indoors. But what we can see from our windows, the environment all around is very dull, the visibility has reduced significantly, I'm barely able to look at the building next to us. Outside a lot of people are reporting a burning sensation in their eyes, an irritation in the throat. In fact, while my commute was ongoing today, there was a slight, you know, a headache of sorts that also I felt at the end of it.

So there are all sorts of effects that are happening here. In general, though, you will see that the streets of Delhi are still full of traffic. There are still people who are outside, who are walking, going along their routines. On social media, however, there's been a lot of outrage. People are asking for accountability from the provincial governments, from the national government. People are tagging the Prime Minister, the Environment Minister and talking about the fact that this needs to end, there needs to be some accountability. So this is all that's happening as we speak. So there are plenty of measures being put in place to try to reduce the smog

but it's likely to continue for a number of days one imagines. That's right, there is something called as a graded response action plan and we are at the fourth level, the highest level of that action plan that's underway right now. So a lot of construction, even off roads and fry-overs and bridges has been put to stop. There are a lot of restrictions on the entry of vehicles, commercial vehicles, trucks inside Delhi. But you're right, the forecast is not very happy one. So it does seem that we are in for this,

at least for the next few days. And as we speak right now, according to the government's own data, the air quality index is at 441, which is slightly short of the severe plus category as the Indian government defines it. Jugal Aprawit in Delhi. In the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, demonstrators are more than halfway through a 24-hour protest

against last month's parliamentary election results. The election was won by the governing Georgian Dream Party, which critics accuse of being pro-Russian and increasingly authoritarian. They say the country risks returning to Russian control. Our correspondent Rehan Demitri is in Tbilisi. She gave us this update. Warming up by the fire, a group of protesters with blankets over their shoulders are standing on Tbilisi's Chavchavadze Avenue, an intersection of three main streets.

Usually, this area is busy with traffic, but opposition supporters have blocked the streets with benches, cars and large trash containers. They believe the government has made a U-turn on Georgia's foreign policy in favor of Russia. 20-year-old Georgi Khapava spent the night here. We need Europe, everything protected for Russians. Our government needs Russian rules and only Russian monies and we don't need this. We need Europe, we're protecting for this. The action has been organised by Georgia's opposition parties. They're protesting at the declared results of the October 26 parliamentary elections. The Central Election Commission

confirmed last Saturday that the ruling Georgian Dream Party won with 54% of the vote. The opposition claims the governing party led by billionaire founder Bezina Ivanishvili stole the election. Hayatiyet De Kanoidze is an opposition leader. Ivanishvili has stolen the best of democracy. What we had, it's our vote, it's our voice. Nobody can recognize elections. We need the international investigation in order to really just clarify what happened and how it happened because organized crime was very vivid, I mean how GD acted and the

secrecy of the voting process was violated, you know, totally. The ruling party has denied allegations of election fraud. A number of court hearings in recent days have rejected cases related to election violations brought by local observer groups. The prime minister said the new parliament would convene next week with or without the opposition. Activist Christo Talachadze says this protest is their last chance to save the country. Tomorrow will be too, too late. Then we wake up in Russia. We are already partly in Russia. And it's really like last, last, last chance. The Euro police are here. We are very happy.

Meanwhile, the authorities in the Georgian breakaway region of Abkhazia say warning shots have been fired to prevent protesters from taking control of the government television station in the capital, Sakoumi. Opponents of the local government have occupied the office of the president, Aslam Zaniya, since Friday and are demanding his resignation.

They're opposed to a proposed investment agreement between the Black Sea region and Russia. Still to come on this podcast, the story of how Chinese fishermen saved hundreds of British prisoners after they were left for dead on a sinking ship in the Second World War. I was swimming towards the island and I could see the rocks and I thought to myself, how the hell am I going to get on those rocks? And the next thing I know, there's a little boat there. Hello, I'm Simon Jack. And I'm Xing Xing. And together we host Good Bad Billionaire, the podcast exploring the minds, the motives

and the money of some of the world's richest individuals. Every episode we pick a billionaire and we find out how they made their money. And then we judge them. Are they good, bad or just another billionaire? Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Health authorities in the Central African Republic say that the M-pox cases are now five times higher than usual. The virus has been common in rural areas for years,

but it's now spreading faster in busy cities like the capital, Bongi. The BBC's Dawkus Wangira reports on how local organizations are stepping up their efforts to stop the spread and fight misinformation. ? ? Meet 55-year-old Shalman Lombaye.

He's the president of the Union of the Blind in the Central African Republic. He's also the host of Echoes for the Disabled, a community radio show aimed at people living with disability like himself. It is often said that radio is a friend of the blind. Radio is listened to more in the Central African Republic and it is very easy for disabled people to get a radio. A UNICEF poll conducted in the Central African Republic found that 62 percent of people trust radio as their most reliable source for information on EMPOCs.

Since the Central African Republic declared a national EMPOCs outbreak in July, Shalmane has shifted the focus of his show to raising awareness around EMPOCs. Because we've had training on EMPOCs, we are well equipped to inform others. Doctors have taught us about the diseases. In my program, I explain how the virus spreads, the signs of infection, and how to avoid being infected. You need to avoid contact with infected people and refer them to hospitals for medical treatment. M-Pox is endemic in the Central African Republic, but this year it was reported in the capital Bangui

for the first time, prompting health authorities to declare a national outbreak. Data from the World Health Organization shows that two people have died of the total 64 confirmed MPOX cases registered this year. In an effort to help people avoid the disease, community workers are spreading crucial health messages. I often advise people in my neighborhood that M-pox is very dangerous. Diane Makavo-Anel Jusselin is a community health worker in Gitanwola, a neighborhood of the capital city. But not everyone is receptive to her message.

Some people still cling to commonly held beliefs about the disease. Sometimes, others tell me that I'm lying and that this disease has always existed, that all you have to do is wash yourself with cassava leaves without going to the hospital. The use of traditional methods can sometimes make the situation worse. Dr. Pierre Xomse is the health minister of the Central African Republic.

Families tend to use concoctions to treat skin rashes. The most commonly used concoction is cassava leaf combined with with lemon juice which is rubbed into the rash. The cases that have been observed have reported that the use of these treatments has resulted in the lesions of the rash becoming more widespread and the condition of the patients worsening. The vast majority of EMPOC's cases have been registered in the Democratic Republic of Congo, which shares the Central African Republic's longest border. The possibility of cross-border transmission has authorities here on HILAT. With limited access to essential health information in person, many hope that radio can make a difference. Dorcas Wangiro reporting. He was elected early this year with the promise of radical economic and social reform. Now the president of Senegal seems to have

control of Parliament as well. The party of Basiro Diomafi appears to have won the general election on Sunday. A party spokesman has already claimed victory on television while the ballots were still being counted. So how big a victory is this and what can be expected now? Our Africa regional editor Will Ross told me more. We won't get the official result probably until Tuesday but of this 165 member Parliament, President Fai's party is expected to get at least 119 of those seats so a colossal victory on the way and that would give him that power in Parliament to be able to not not just vote through

some changes but also potentially change the Constitution without a referendum and that's a critical thing because he does want to push through some major reforms and had been kind of hamstrung a bit by having the opposition dominate the parliament for those first few months that he was in office. And what kind of radical reforms has he promised? Well he's promised really a shake-up of the entire economy to kind of make it more owned and controlled by Senegalese. So he's been highly critical of oil and gas contracts, fishing contracts, saying that too many foreign companies are involved

in those. But of course for young Senegalese, and there is a very huge problem with youth unemployment there, they're really expecting changes fast and there was this big promise to create jobs and tackle corruption and the problem is going to be really that he's had these few months already and the clock is kind of ticking but it's going to be very difficult to turn around the economy and just in the last few months it was revealed that the country's debt was bigger than the previous administration had said. So there are problems that the country is facing that are going to be difficult to fix in a hurry.

And there's a real sign of desperation amongst many young people because immigration rates are very high. Yes, and the whole problem of people making those risky journeys to try and get to the the Spanish Canary Islands that's been back in the spotlight this year with with vast numbers of people making those very dangerous journeys. It kind of ebbs and flows over the years but certainly it's it's pretty bad at the moment and there are just too many young people who finish school or even finish a university education and then just don't see any prospect of a job at home. Will Ross. A new documentary film recounts an extraordinary incident in the Second World War

when poor Chinese fishermen saved hundreds of British prisoners of war from drowning. In 1942 a Japanese ship moving around 1800 British troops from Hong Kong to Japan as forced labour was hit by a torpedo and sank. The film made in China is being tipped for an Oscar nomination. Vincent Dowd reports. When Japan invaded Britain's colony of Hong Kong at the end of 1941, newsreels at home tried to sound positive. On the outbreak of hostilities, this easternmost outpost of the British Empire instantly rejected the Japanese ultimatum to surrender and girded itself to fight the invaders.

But Japan's much bigger land, sea and air forces were victorious. After a year in captivity, 1,800 UK troops were sent in hideous conditions on the freighter the Lisbon Maru to become Japanese slave labour. The ship was torpedoed by a US submarine whose commander was unaware who was on board. Brian Finch is adviser to the new Chinese documentary, The Sinking of the Lisbon Maru. It took some 24 hours for the ship to sink. During this period, the Japanese sent a rescue

fleet, which lifted off all the Japanese troops who were on board and most of the crew of the ship, leaving the prisoners below deck. They battened down the hatches to make sure the prisoners couldn't get out. At the last moment, many of the POWs were able to escape and jump into the water. The film tracked down the final two survivors, Dennis Morley and William Benningfield. In the film, their testimony is used with animated reconstructions. Once you see one dead body, I mean, you become hardened to it. And I thought, my God, after what I've been through,

is this the way I'm going to die? A couple of miles away on a Chinese island, fishing families had become aware of the unfolding disaster at sea. And village elders organised a full rescue mission, and every man on the island who had a boat took it out, and they rescued a total of 384. William Benningfield and Dennis Morley were among those astounded to find themselves pulled out of the water to safety.

I was swimming towards the island, and I could see the rocks, and I thought to myself, how the hell am I going to get on those rocks? And the next thing I know, there's a little bunk there. I'll never forget this voice, this Chinese voice said, hello, I save you. And he gave me some raw fish to eat and water to drink. The next day, the survivors were rounded up again by the Japanese, except for three men who escaped back to England. Fang Li encountered this real-life story and decided to memorialize those who died, about

800 men, as well as the courage and humanity of the Chinese fishermen. FANG LI, Chinese Fisherman If you go to that island, people have a very strong tradition of hospitality. Whoever in the water, no matter if enemy or friend, they will pick up. Fang Li says his eight years of work on the documentary was motivated, above all, by a sudden moment of realization off the coast of China. When I was standing on a deck at sea, there are 828 young men dead below my deck, 30 meters coast of China. Director Fang Li ending that report by Vincent Doubt. Finally you may have seen the word blue sky popping up on your social media feed

recently and wondered what people are talking about. It's an alternative platform to Elon Musk's X and in terms of its color and logo it looks quite similar. Blue sky is growing rapidly and is currently picking up around about a million new sign-ups a day. So is this the site to rival X? And with no ads, what's its business model? James Titcombe is technology editor of Britain's Daily Telegraph and a Blue Sky user. He's been talking to Sean Farrington. Blue Sky is really picking up momentum at the moment. Anyone who's on it, who's using it and used to use Twitter knows that it just has started to get that community feel

people remember from Twitter's early days if you were on there 10 years ago. How is it different to what X and Elon Musk's social media feed provides? Blue Sky is not so different from X. You post these short messages, you can post videos. When you open the app, you see this feed of short messages from people. It does look a lot more like Twitter used to several years ago than X does now in that the main feed is this reverse timeline rather than this algorithmically generated pro-engagement

feed. The main difference is there is a lot of frustration at X. People feel that the platform has become very dominated by Elon Musk and it's come to incentivise engagement. A lot of people think the platform has become very right-wing or very pro-Trump, especially in recent weeks. And I think the shift to Blue Sky is effectively a reaction against that. Who are Blue Sky? How is it making money and being able to provide this platform for so many people joining? Blue Sky was actually founded within Twitter and then was spun out when Elon Musk bought

Twitter and renamed it X. It's only got about 20 employees now and it's run technically as a public benefit corporation, which means it's not supposed to be as incentivized on profit as many people are. So it's relatively small still compared to some of the major social media networks. It doesn't cost that much to run, but as you say, it doesn't have advertising right now. It doesn't necessarily make a lot of money. I think that is going to be a question in the future. There are some little things that they're looking at, but it does remain to be seen how they are going to keep the lights on. Does that make it more vulnerable? We talk so much about social media sites

needing to do more to protect users. I mean, has Blue Sky got the capacity to do that? Yeah, it's a really big question. As the site gets bigger, right now, if you're a bot or looking to influence people's thoughts or elections or whatever, blue sky isn't really worth your trouble because there aren't the grounds for the people on those. There's about 18 million people on there compared to 250 million on X. I think if the momentum continues to grow, they really are going to have a problem. They're going to have to make these investments.

We've seen this with every social media company that gets bigger. That was James Titkirk. And that's all from us for now. But there will be a new edition of the Global News podcast later on. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcastatbbc.co.uk.

This edition was produced by Alice Adley and was mixed by Callum McLean. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Nick Marz and I'm Xing Xing. And together we host Good Bad Billionaire, the podcast exploring the minds, the motives and the money of some of the world's richest individuals. Every episode we pick a billionaire and we find out how they made their money. And then we judge them. Are they good, bad or just another billionaire?

Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.