Global News Podcast - Online abuser who targeted thousands of children worldwide is jailed

Episode Date: October 26, 2024

One of the world's most prolific online child abusers, Alexander McCartney, has been jailed in Northern Ireland. Also: 75-year-old rock star Bruce Springsteen says he has no plans to retire any time soon.

This is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Janet Jaleel and in the early hours of Saturday the 26th of October, these are our main stories. A man who posed as a girl online to sexually abuse and blackmail thousands of children around the world is sentenced to life in prison. The World Health Organization says it has reestablished contact with the last functioning hospital in northern Gaza, but that it is still under siege by the Israeli army. Two mining companies agreed to pay a $30 billion settlement over one of Brazil's worst environmental disasters. Also in this podcast…

I'm going to play until it makes sense, which is what I've always thought to do. The rock star Bruce Springsteen tells the BBC he won't ever stop performing. One of the world's most prolific online child abusers has been sentenced to life in prison by a judge in Northern Ireland. Alexander McCartney is reported to have targeted as many as three and a half thousand girls across 30 countries. Officials say McCartney would pretend to be a girl to lure his victims into sending intimate photos. He would then blackmail them into carrying out degrading acts, sometimes involving other children.

One of his victims, a 12-year-old girl in the United States, took her own life. The BBC's Ireland correspondent, Chris Page, has been following this case. A warning, his report does contain some very distressing details. It begins with the grandmother of the child who died in the US. This is the Sunday we took her home before her passing. This was their woods at their house. Peggy Thomas is looking at photos of her granddaughter, Simran. She's told TV documentary makers about the schoolgirl's death in West Virginia in May 2018. Simran would have been 13 in July, and so she has bright red lipstick on getting into that stage of her life.

To be a teenager, she almost was. Why? Why was the biggest question? Why? Simran lived thousands of miles away from her abuser. Why? Why was the biggest question? Why? Simirin lived thousands of miles away from her abuser. Alexander McCartney was blackmailing her after he tricked her into sending him explicit pictures of herself. Three minutes after McCartney's last message to Simirin, the emergency services received this call. Creston County 911 emergency services received this call. wound, find out they've controlled the bleeding and I need to secure the firearm. With a mother right? No, 12 year old. Three years later, police discovered McCartney had been in contact with Simoran. He went through the same sickening routine with three and a half thousand victims, whom he befriended online by posing as a teenage girl.

When McCartney got the compromising pictures, he threatened to post them publicly, unless his victims did what he wanted. He told them to carry out acts of abuse for his sexual gratification, even ordering some girls to film themselves abusing other children. You had little girls, sort of an average age of 10 to 12 years old, being threatened in

the most depraved way. Catherine Karens is a lawyer who worked on the prosecution case against McCartney. When he got that first photograph from them, he actually had a pre-prepared threat saved in his phone, which he would cut and paste into the chat. His offending was round the clock, you know, and it was difficult to know when he actually did anything else. The investigation into McCartney was the biggest ever held in the UK into what's known as catfishing. Police forces and online safety campaigners have issued warnings about this sort of crime. What typically happens is explained in this video by the National Crime Agency.

You're being recorded. Am I? You're being blackmailed. The film will be shared with your friends, your family. McCartney targeted children across the world. A father from New Zealand has said his family's been devastated. His words are spoken by a BBC producer. It all happened for my daughter within minutes. You know, as soon as that first photo was sent, a sequence of events was in motion that, you know, could never be undone. And he'd

obviously honed his craft over you know a significant period of time and as soon as he had that power she was playing by his rules. It's something she's going to deal with forever. We know she's on this medication all the time and the darkest places that I'm sure her mind goes from time to time when she's alone. Well I'm just walking out of Belfast Crown Court where this afternoon a judge has sentenced McCartney to life in prison and it'll be at least 20 years

before he can apply to be released early. There was a particularly poignant moment when the judge spoke about Cimmeran Thomas's father Ben. He also took his own life 18 months after Cimmeran's death. The judge told McCartney that his crimes, because of the extent of them, were on a par with murder and that he couldn't imagine a more dangerous sex offender.

Detective Chief Superintendent Eamon Corrigan led the investigation for the Police Service of Northern Ireland. His offending was on an industrial scale. He had a number of devices and was operating across different time zones. His depravity knew no bounds. McCartney's actions have directly caused the death of a child. He may as well have pulled the trigger himself. It is right today he became the first in the UK to be sentenced for manslaughter when the victim resided in a foreign jurisdiction. As far as I am concerned there is only one place for him and that is behind bars.

Given that McCartney's already served five years in jail on remand since he was charged, the earliest point the parole commissioners can consider releasing him will be in 2039. Chris Page reporting from Belfast. Well Angus Crawford has reported extensively on the dangers for young people online and he considers what is being done to address the wider issues exposed by this case. McCartney's offences took place between 2013 and 2019 at a time when there were few guardrails on social media. Children's accounts were public by default and anyone could send them a friend request. He ruthlessly exploited those weaknesses,

using more than 60 phones and multiple different accounts, mainly on Snapchat but also Instagram. He created a fake profile of a young woman and was able to contact more than 3,000 potential victims. Today the digital landscape has changed and social media is safer, although both platforms still have significant issues around grooming and child exploitation. The blackmailing of teenagers for financial gain or so-called sextortion is also an emerging problem. But this year both Snapchat and Instagram announced changes to their systems to prevent young users being contacted by strangers using fake accounts. Changes brought about by public pressure, the threat of litigation in the US

and the impact of new legislation. Today is the first anniversary of the Online Safety Act receiving royal assent and early next year the regulator will gain the power to levy fines of up to 18 million pounds. Angus Crawford, the World Health Organization says that after losing contact with the last functioning hospital in northern Gaza, it has now managed to re-establish it. Medical staff at the Kamal Adwan facility in the Jabalia refugee camp said that they were under siege by the Israeli army and emergency wards were overflowing. The Hamas-run health ministry said Israeli soldiers opened fire inside the hospital,

destroying oxygen equipment. As a result, it said two sick children had died. The Israeli army says it's operating in the area to destroy terrorist infrastructure. Israel does not allow international journalists into Gaza except on supervised trips. Sebastian Usher in Jerusalem told us about the WHO's last contact with the hospital. Kamal Adwan hospital is one of three hospitals still struggling to continue functioning in desperate conditions in northern Gaza as the Israeli military intensifies its operation in the area. The head of the WHO says that around 600 patients, health workers and others remain sheltering

in the hospital. A WHO team that spent 20 hours in Kamal Adwan said they encountered chaos and mayhem. The Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza says that two children in intensive care died after Israeli fire hit oxygen equipment and the hospital generators failed. The Israeli army has said that it is not aware of live fire and strikes in the area of the hospital. Well the UN Human Rights Chief Volker Turk has called on world leaders to stop Israel's bombardment in northern Gaza, saying they have a duty to do so under international humanitarian law, including the UN Convention

against Genocide. In one of the latest attacks, Gaza's Hamas-run civil defense agency says 12 people were killed in an Israeli drone strike while queuing for food in Gaza City. Mr. Turk said the population of Gaza was experiencing the darkest moment of the conflict. Imogen Folks reports. These were stark words from the UN Human Rights Chief, reflecting the mounting horror at the highest levels of the United Nations at what is happening in northern Gaza.

As we speak, the Israeli military is subjecting an entire population to bombing, siege and starvation. Volker Tewerk said countries around the world, all of them parties to the Geneva Conventions, must now act to uphold them. To all the world's leaders, I remind you of your responsibility to ensure respect for international humanitarian law as set out in the Geneva Conventions. These are universally accepted and binding norms developed preserve the very bare minimum of humanity. I implore you to put the protection of civilians and human rights first and not to abandon

that minimum of humanity." Significantly, Mr. Twerck added that where there was a risk of genocide, all states were legally bound to prevent it. Until now, the UN has mostly avoided the word genocide in relation to Gaza. But the chances of Mr. Twerck's words having an effect seem slim. Almost no aid has reached northern Gaza in weeks. A planned UN-led polio vaccination campaign in the area has been abandoned because of the continued bombing. And the UN's children's agency UNICEF says the

evacuation of critically injured children who desperately need medical care not available in Gaza has virtually stopped. Israel has repeatedly insisted it acts in accordance with international law. Imogen folks, well in Lebanon the Information Minister has described an Israeli attack that killed three journalists there as a war crime. Ziad Makary accused Israel of deliberately targeting the reporters while they were sleeping in a guest house early on Friday. Israel has not commented. It says five soldiers have been killed in

the latest fighting with Hezbollah. Emma Inada reports from Beirut. Journalists who survived the strike have called it deliberate. They were staying in Hasbiyah, a town in Lebanon's mountainous south. Vehicles parked nearby and marked with large press signs were badly damaged and thrown onto their side. Eighteen journalists from seven media organizations were staying at the residence. One journalist said they had awoken to the ceiling falling on them and the sound of fighter planes in the sky.

They said they had believed the location to be safe. Lebanon's Prime Minister Najib Makati said that the attack aims to terrorise the media in order to cover up crimes and destruction being committed in southern Lebanon. Israel has not commented. Since the Israeli army began its ground operation into the south of Lebanon to fight Hezbollah, vast areas have been evacuated by local residents, with journalists being the most significant source of information about the conflicts there. Eme Nader. Ukraine's President Vladimir Zelensky says he's received intelligence that Russia plans to deploy North Korean soldiers to the battlefield in the next couple of days.

Moscow has neither confirmed nor denied reports that it's been training thousands of North Koreans. But the Russian leader Vladimir Putin has said the two countries have the sovereign right to decide on military cooperation. James Waterhouse reports from Kyiv. According to Ukraine's intelligence service, the first units from North Korea's army have already started to arrive in combat zones, notably in Russia's Kursk region, where Ukrainian troops seized territory earlier this year. Kiev estimates 12,000 troops have been provided with ammunition, small arms and winter clothing. South Korea has already said it's considering whether to send

lethal aid to Ukraine for the first time and President Zelensky has urged his allies to respond strongly to Moscow deepening its relationship with Pyongyang. The former US State Department official, Mark Fitzpatrick, explains what North Korea may be getting in return. First of all, there's the obvious things of hard currency, oil, food. But more interesting would be the military hardware and technology that Russia presumably would supply, helping North Korea with its satellite launch program, helping North Korea more dangerously with being able to put more bombs on a single missile.

Separately, President Zelensky rejected a visit by the UN Secretary-General after Antonio Guterres took part in a summit in Russia. The sight of the world's top diplomat shaking hands with Vladimir Putin has gone down very badly in Kiev. Our Ukraine correspondent, James Waterhouse. Well, Matthew Schmitz, associate professor from the National Security Department at the University of New Haven in the US, spoke to Anita McVeigh. What does he think the deployment of North Korean troops signals about Russia's capabilities and intentions. I think the first thing it signals is that it's a signal that what Putin is doing by bringing in North Korean troops is opening up effectively an eastern front against the

United States. Because the question is, why would North Korea do this? Right. What are they getting out of this change? And the answer is that they're getting some kind of military technology, food and fuel for the hermit kingdom. But it's that military technology that could allow North Korea to put together a real missile program that could evade US anti-ballistic missile systems. And that pressure is what I think Putin is trying to do. He's trying to put that pressure on the US election. He's trying to create a situation where Americans are saying to themselves, why are we getting involved in this?

Why are we creating a situation where we're worried about ballistic missiles from North Korea? So what you're not saying, Matthew, I want to just be clear, is that Russia is in a position where it actually needs to bring troops From another country to help on the battlefield. It's not that reason that lies behind this according to your analysis Right. So it's not that that doesn't matter but Russia is losing 25,000 troops a month in terms of dead and casualties and wounded, right, a month. So 12,000, which

is that upper number right now, North Koreans, helps, but it doesn't help that much. It's not going to turn the tide of battle. But what does help is trying to push the battlefield forward to end the war this year. Matthew Schmidt, let's turn now to the US presidential election itself. As we record this podcast, Donald Trump and Kamala Harris are both campaigning in the traditionally Republican state of Texas. The Washington Post has announced though that it's not endorsing either candidate after the paper's owner, billionaire Jeff Bezos, allegedly blocked a planned endorsement of Kamala Harris. This comes

after the owner of the Los Angeles Times did the same, prompting the resignation of a senior editor. Max Tanney is media editor at Semaphore, a US digital news website founded in 2022. Julian Marshall asked him if it was standard practice in the US for newspapers to endorse a presidential candidate. Historically, it has waffled both ways. Papers go in and out of endorsing candidates and not endorsing candidates. The Los Angeles Times for years, for almost a hundred years before it endorsed Barack Obama in 2008, both endorsed exclusively Republican candidates

and then went 30 years without endorsing presidential candidate. The Washington Post has on and off at various points in its history endorsed candidates and not endorsed candidates. It is not unusual for newspaper necessarily to skip endorsing. However, almost all of the major newspapers in America when Donald Trump has been on the ballot have not endorsed him and have endorsed his opponents. So in that respect, it is unusual this move that the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post have both made. So what's happened at the Washington Post because there are conflicting versions? From talking to sources, the paper's editorial board staff had drafted an endorsement of Kamala Harris. And they had submitted this, sent this along, had alerted Jeff Bezos, the owner of The Post, that this editorial was going to be coming. They hadn't

really heard anything back for what I understand is several weeks, which raised some concerns, in particular after we broke the story on Tuesday that the Los Angeles Times was going to be declining to endorse Kamala Harris or Donald Trump. That raised alarms at the Post and put pressure on Will Lewis, the publisher and CEO, to release a statement, which he did noon Eastern time here, that the Post would be endorsing in this election. So, do we know beyond doubt that their decision not to endorse either candidates is a result of pressure from the proprietors, Jeff Bezos and Patrick Sun Tiong? Absolutely.

Well, at least in certain regards we do. We don't have a statement from Bezos himself. So he hasn't confirmed that. But Patrick Sun Tiong confirmed in a tweet earlier this week that he had given the paper the opportunity to present essentially a side-by-side piece laying out the pros and cons of each candidate and or at least their policies and how they would impact the country and how they would impact US foreign policy. To a lot of folks that the paper sounded like a fine assignment for the –

This is the LA Times, isn't it? This is the Los Angeles Times. At the Los Angeles Times, which sounded a little bit like an assignment for the news side, not for the opinion side. But it was not an endorsement. We did not permit them to endorse in either way. Bezos has not released a statement though. Max Taney, media editor at the US digital news website Semaphore. In what's believed to be a world first, a team of surgeons in Scotland has developed a way to remove brain tumours the size of apples through patients' eyebrows using keyhole surgery. The new technique allows surgeons to operate on very large tumours in the front and the middle of the brain. Stephanie Prentice reports.

It's a new surgery that means less scarring, shorter recovery times and less risk to healthy brain tissue. The keyhole technique also takes four hours instead of the usual eight for a similar procedure. Consultant neurosurgeon Anatasios Gia Moriades is responsible for this breakthrough, which previously was only being used for small tumours. With my team, we have modified that approach and we are able to remove very large brain tumours purely through the eyebrow with a very small lateral extension. We have special instruments and we debulk as we say. So we remove the centre of the tumour first of all and slowly then we remove the capsule which

is strictly adherent to vital neurovascular structures in that area. Optic nerves, carotid arteries which keep us alive and very, very important functions. Tumours are carefully divided and removed through the eyebrow incision with tools slid under the brain on the skull base. The major upside is that healthy parts of the brain are protected from outside elements. We expose less healthy brain as possible and this is what makes the recovery so fast. With a traditional approach, more or less half of the brain is exposed for quite some time in theatre.

So far, the team have removed 48 tumours without complications, including some large aggressive tumours. The next step is to create a simulation programme so that doctors all around the world can learn how to do the operation using virtual reality. Stephanie Prentiss, still to come on the podcast. With only six weeks to go now till the reopening of Notre Dame, the last bits of scaffolding are being taken down and from the outside the cathedral looks splendid. But now France's Culture Minister has suggested that visitors to the cathedral in Paris should have to pay to enter.

You're listening to the Global News Podcast. Brazil's government has reached a multi-billion dollar settlement with two mining companies responsible for a dam collapse in 2015 that officials had described as the country's worst ever environmental disaster. The Mariana Dam in southeastern Brazil released a vast mudslide of toxic sludge into nearby communities, killing 19 people, destroying homes and polluting waterways for hundreds of kilometres all the way to the Atlantic Ocean. The Brazilian President, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, attended the signing of the agreement with the two firms, BHP and Vale.

Every penny used is considered an investment for us to recover the misfortune that the irresponsibility of a company caused. This is what must be clear. We are repairing a misfortune that could have been avoided but was not avoided due to irresponsibility and greed for profit. A correspondent in Brazil, Ioni Wells, has been following the case. It was completely devastating. In 2015 this dam which was holding mining waste that had been produced by Samarco, a mining company that's owned by BHP and the Brazilian mining company Vale, burst and essentially unleashed millions of cubic metres worth of toxic mud which just

swept through communities, washed away homes entirely, left hundreds of people homeless, it killed 19 people and it also flooded a lot of this toxic waste into the river making that very poisonous for quite some time. Even to this day there's communities who relied on that river for farming, for animals, for crops that still don't use it and trust it because of some of the chemicals that were unleashed into it. So it has had a really lasting impact on people's lives. And some of them are still, well have until recently, still been fighting to get compensation. And now nine years on, a deal has been struck.

That's right. So at the moment, what's been agreed is that BHP and Vale, according to the Brazilian government, agreed to pay further what amounts to about $30 billion worth of extra compensation. Now over the last couple of years they have already paid billions of dollars so far in repair work. For example, they've started building a new city to try and replace one of the ones that was completely destroyed in this disaster. Interestingly though, despite this settlement that's just been announced in Brazil, there is separate legal action that the companies are facing, both in the UK and also in the Netherlands. In the UK, hundreds of thousands of individuals

who were affected are taking BHP to court. That trial began earlier this week, and in the Netherlands, further claimants are taking valet to court as well. That was partly because some of those claimants felt like they were frustrated at how long the process was taking. Some of them don't feel like they've been offered adequate compensation so far, hence deciding to take the companies to court in different countries. The companies argue that that extra legal action is unnecessary. They say that it duplicates matters that are

already being dealt with in Brazil and they argue that they are not liable for what happened. Part of the court case that's going on in the UK, for example, is to determine whether BHP were responsible for the disaster, could have taken decisions differently, for example, to prevent it. So that legal action is still ongoing even though this settlement has now been reached in Brazil. Ione Wells. Ecuador is extending planned power cuts from 8 to 14 hours a day to combat a severe energy crisis. The country which relies heavily on hydroelectricity is struggling to deal with its worst drought in 60 years. Ecuador's Energy Minister said the move was

painful but responsible. The dry weather has also affected other countries in the region including Bolivia, Peru and Brazil. Jacob Evans has more on the situation in Ecuador. For more than a month people in Ecuador have had to live with forced energy blackouts plunging the country into darkness for hours on end. It's because of an energy supply that is being crippled by prolonged arid conditions. Around 70% of Ecuador's energy comes from hydroelectric power, when water is released through dams, spinning turbines and creating electricity. But with drought comes little rainfall and falling water levels.

The newest move has seen the blackouts almost double, from 8 to 14 hours a day. Last week, President Noboa had promised to phase down the blackouts to as little to 14 hours a day. Last week President Noboa had promised to phase down the blackouts to as little as four hours a day by next month but worsening conditions have led to the opposite. Jacob Evans, wildlife officials in India say a great Indian bustard chick has been hatched through artificial insemination. They describe this as a significant breakthrough in saving the critically endangered bird. Ambarasanettirajan reports. They describe this as a significant breakthrough in saving the critically endangered bird.

Ambarasanettirajan reports. An official said the mother bustard laid an egg at a breeding centre in India's Rajasthan state and a healthy chick emerged last week. A minister described it as a historic step in efforts to save the species from the brink of extinction. Scientists said they had been working on the project for the past three years and they had learned from some initial setbacks. The number of the desert dwelling birds have plummeted in the past 25 years. Only about 200 are believed to remain in the wild. Hunting, development and habitat

loss have had a significant impact on the population of the birds. Ambarasan Etirajan, there's less than two months to go before the reopening of Notre Dame in Paris after it was nearly destroyed by a fire five years ago. Traditionally it's been free to get in but now France's Culture Minister has suggested that visitors to the cathedral should have to pay to enter. Also under her proposals tourists from outside the European Union would have to pay more to get into cultural attractions such as the Louvre Museum. Our Paris correspondent Hugh Schofield sent this report from outside Notre Dame.

With only six weeks to go now till the reopening of Notre Dame, the last bits of scaffolding are being taken down and from the outside the cathedral looks splendid. But amid the excited anticipation there's now this bolt from the blue uttered by Culture Minister Rashida Datti. Maybe it's time, she said, that the millions of people who visit Notre Dame every year should each pay a token five euros, a bit over four pounds. It is after all what they do in many other great European religious buildings like Westminster Abbey. Here on the Esplanade in front of great European religious buildings like Westminster Abbey. Here on the Esplanade in front of the cathedral the reaction from tourists was divided. I think that it's fair because five euros is not that much and if you're a tourist in a country you can probably afford it.

And well to see the beauty I think it's okay and to rebuild my churches. I would pay it. I'm a Christian and if I want to join a museum, I will pay for the museum. But if I want to go into the church, that's not my point of view to pay for a church. It's all part of a big rethink in France about how to maintain the country's rich, but often crumbling, architectural heritage. One other idea is to make non-EU tourists pay

more for museums. Here in Notre Dame it's far from certain that the minister's idea will be accepted. For the Catholic Church in France it would be a breach of a basic principle that cathedrals are open to all, always and for free. Hugh Schofield. The rock star Bruce Springsteen has told the BBC that at 75 he has no plans to retire anytime soon. A new documentary has been released that goes behind the scenes on his latest tour.

Our music correspondent Mark Savage has been speaking to him. Since I was 16 playing live has been a deep and lasting part of who I am. Bruce Springsteen has played everywhere, from pizza parlours to football stadiums. But his new documentary is the first time that fans will get to see the effort that goes into his legendary three-hour performances. You've been touring for decades now, so why this tour in particular to invite the cameras

in? Well, because I could be dead by the next one. Let's hope not. I'm 75 years old now. I've decided that waiting to do things, that part of my life is over. Now when you brought this tour to the UK earlier this year, you played a gig in Sunderland where you were in the driving rain for three hours and you lost your voice at the end of it. What makes you keep going in conditions like that?

Well, I'm there to have a good time. I'm going to insist on it, whether it's raining or sunshining or whatever. These are my people. These are the people who've listened to my music for the past 30 or 40 or 20 or 10 years. It sounds corny but you have to love your audience, you know. For the most part I've never found that hard to do so I want to go out and give it my best no matter what the circumstances are. This gun's for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark. Steve Van Zandt, who's been playing guitar with you for decades now, he says that you are one of the most introverted guys you could meet in your life. To go from that to like the world's greatest entertainer, getting a little sly.

How did you invent the Bruce Springsteen that is on stage? Introversion is a funny thing. There's a yin and a yang to it. And on my own, I could be very internal. And the other side of me, which I got from my mother, the joyful side of me allows me to sing Rosalita and Born to Run and Hungry Heart and I'm Irish-Italian

so I got the blues and I got the joy at the same time. Hi, I'm Bruce Springsteen. Friends, fans and the press have asked me who I'm supporting in this most important of elections. You've endorsed Kamala Harris as president. How do you feel as the vote approaches? I think she's going to win. I think Donald Trump is going to lose. I tend to believe that there are still more Americans than fewer who want to pay fealty to the Constitution, the rule of law,

the peaceful transfer of power, democracy. I still believe that there's going to be more Americans who are interested in honoring those things than are interested in voting for Donald Trump. Everybody's got a heart, we heart. Everybody's got a heart. down. But whatever happens in America, Springsteen is set to tour Europe again next summer. And you say in this film that you will keep playing live until the wheels fall off. That's correct. What constitutes the wheels falling off? I'm going to play until it makes sense, which is what I have always thought to do. Well, long may it continue. Bruce, thank you so much for your time.

Thank you. My pleasure. That was Bruce Springsteen talking to Mark Savage. And that's it from this edition of the Global News Podcast. But before we go, here's a request from my colleague Nick Miles. Hello. I am hosting a special edition of the Global News Podcast ahead of the UN's climate change conference, which starts next month. We want you to send in your questions for our experts to answer. Anything climate related and what the world is doing to try to address

the problem. We've already had lots of questions in some from Brazil about how much pressure companies are under to meet their emissions targets. And several of you want to know three simple things we can do to reduce our own carbon footprint. Just send us a voice note with your question to global podcast at BBC.co.uk. Thanks very much. This edition was mixed by Chris Kousaris, the producer was Liam McSheffrey, the editor is Karen Martin. I'm Jeanette Jalil, until next time, goodbye.