Global News Podcast - Pagers explode across Lebanon; Hezbollah blames Israel

Episode Date: September 17, 2024

Hezbollah blames Israel for blowing up hundreds of pagers in Lebanon. Israel has yet to comment. Also: rapper Sean "Diddy" Combs awaits trial over sex trafficking charges; and Instagram boosts privacy... on teen accounts.

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello, this is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service, with reports and analysis from across the world. The latest news seven days a week. BBC World Service podcasts are supported by advertising. If you're hearing this, you're probably already listening to BBC's award-winning news podcasts. But did you know that you can listen to them without ads? Get current affairs podcasts like Thank you. Amazon Music with a Prime membership. Spend less time on ads and more time with BBC Podcasts. This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Andrew Peach and in the early hours of Wednesday, the 18th of September, these are our main stories.
Starting point is 00:01:00 Pages explode across Lebanon. Hezbollah blames Israel. The rapper and producer Sean Diddy Combs pleads not guilty Pages explode across Lebanon as Bilal blames Israel. The rapper and producer Sean Diddy Combs pleads not guilty to charges of racketeering and sex trafficking. Instagram introduces accounts for children aged 13 to 15 to protect them from harmful content. Also in this podcast, Scotland agrees to host the 2026 Commonwealth Games in Glasgow. And a whistleblower tells a hearing into the Titan submersible disaster that his warnings about safety were ignored. You have to have the confidence in the equipment to do the job.
Starting point is 00:01:35 It's like every other industry. And did you have confidence in the way that the Titan was being built at this time? No confidence whatsoever. We'll start in Lebanon, where several people have been killed and thousands more injured after handheld pagers, the sort used by the militant group Hezbollah, suddenly exploded in several locations across the country, leading to shocking scenes. Ambulances and cars rushed the wounded to hospitals. Lebanon's health ministry asked medical staff to report for duty and for people to donate blood. Hezbollah has blamed Israel for what it calls criminal aggression. Israel has yet to comment. My colleague James Menendez spoke to Lebanon's health minister, Dr Firas Abiyad.
Starting point is 00:02:26 This all started at half past three this afternoon when a large number of patients started presenting to our hospitals with the complaint that their pager or communication device exploded. And this has resulted in what we are now reporting around 2,800 casualties, including 200 casualties that are in critical conditions. And up till now, we are reporting nine deaths, including an eight-year-old child. And what sort of injuries do those who were wounded have? So most of the injuries appear to be to the face, especially to the eyes, and also to the hand with some amputations, whether it's in the hand or finger amputations. And some of them have injuries to their flank. And can you tell us,
Starting point is 00:03:11 are all those who have been injured, are they all members of the militant group Hezbollah or civilians being injured too? Well, we're seeing all kinds of people, to be honest. And as you know, the vast majority of people who are presenting to the emergency rooms are in their civilian clothes. So it's very difficult to discern whether they belong to a certain entity like Hezbollah or others. But we are seeing that there are, including amongst them, people who are old or people who are very young, like the child that, you know, unfortunately died. And there are some of them who are healthcare workers. Can I just ask you this? I mean, it is 2024 and pagers are old technology, and we're told that
Starting point is 00:03:55 Hezbollah uses them because they're more secure. But do other people in Lebanon use pagers? Well, there are, you know, still in hospitals, some of the hospital's personnel who use pagers? Well, there are, you know, still in hospitals, some of the hospital's personnel who use pagers. But I really cannot comment more on this simply because this is not a part that, you know, from the health sector we were very much interested in. It is, though, a major security breach for your country, isn't it? I think it's a major escalation at a time when everybody was hoping that things are moving towards kind of a cessation of hostilities or some kind of a ceasefire. This is clearly a move in the wrong direction. Who do you blame for what's happened? Well, I think, you know, the obvious culprit has to be the Israelis, but I think that the security people will have more to say on this issue.
Starting point is 00:04:51 If that is true, though, how worried are you about escalation along Lebanon's southern border with Israel, with all the potential casualties that that might entail? Well, indeed, I mean, you know, we in the health sector have been quite worried since day one. And that's why we have been holding these drills and preparation for the health sector in Lebanon, preparing for mass casualties that unfortunately we experience today. And Lebanon is, as everybody knows, is passing through multiple crises, including a severe financial crisis. So the ability of the healthcare sector to bear more stresses is quite concerning. And that is why I really hope that a solution towards a de-escalation, a ceasefire, would be the option that hopefully can lead us out of this mess that we're in. Lebanon's Health Minister, Dr. Firis
Starting point is 00:05:44 Abiyad. So how could this have happened? Gita Guru Murthy asked our security correspondent, Frank Gardner. This operation took two things. It took very precise, timely intelligence to know what this batch was, where it was coming from, when it was going where. And secondly, technical capability to be able to do this. And the assumption, certainly by Hezbollah and most of the region, is that Israel, which is not commenting, was behind this because there is form here. Back in 1996, they were able to assassinate a leading Hamas bomb-maker called Yahya Yash.
Starting point is 00:06:17 I've spoken to experts about it, and they think that the most likely explanation is that somebody was able to insert themselves into the supply chain and insert between 10 to 20 grams of military-grade high explosive, probably HMX or RDX, into these pages disguised or hidden inside a fake electrical component. That would then have been triggered or armed, rather, by what's called an alphanumeric signal sent to these one-way pages. So the pages receive messages, but they don't send them. They're pages, not mobile phones.
Starting point is 00:06:50 And Hezbollah told its people, don't use mobile phones, they're too dangerous, have these instead. They turn out to have been just as dangerous. But the amount of explosive in them, in 99%-plus of the cases, wasn't fatal. This is a warning. This is a psychological blow against Hezbollah, which must be hugely undermining to their morale and their ability to conduct operations.
Starting point is 00:07:13 They must be thinking, what else is compromised by this? I just want to bring in another guest who's just managed to join us, Fawaz Jajez, Professor of International Relations at the LSE. Thank you so much for being with us, Fawaz. Just your response in terms of this extraordinary attack, what do you think it means for all parties? Well, I think it's one of the greatest security breach of Hezbollah. Hezbollah communication system, Hezbollah command and control, the number of casualties is vast, almost 2,700. I can expect
Starting point is 00:07:47 now there is a lot of chaos within the decision-making process. I don't think we're going to expect any major retaliation in the next hours or next few days. Hezbollah will most likely take its time, assess the implications. I can imagine now there's a great deal of volatility, a great deal of chaos within the decision-making process, because this particular vast breach basically targets the nerve center, the decision-making process of Hezbollah. But my take on it is that Hezbollah faces some very big strategic dilemma, because while Hezbollah feels bound to retaliate, Hezbollah also does not really want to trigger all-out war. Because Hezbollah assessment, I take it that this is the first shot in Israel's all-out war against Hezbollah. Israel really has been provoking Hezbollah,
Starting point is 00:08:39 has been pushing Hezbollah. And this attack, really, it's not just a psychological attack. This is a major security, catastrophic attack on Hezbollah. So I think Hezbollah leaders will basically take their time, will assess their options. But at the same time, I doubt very much whether Hezbollah's attack will target any kind of civilians in Israel, because Hezbollah has been really avoiding targeting Israeli civilians, because Hezbollah has been really avoiding targeting Israeli civilians because Hezbollah, the strategic, the overarching strategic aim of Hezbollah is to avoid all-out war because both Iran and Hezbollah believe that Israel is trying to drag them to all-out war, not only against Israel, but also against the United States and its Western allies who have a
Starting point is 00:09:21 massive armada nearby. If it is Israel, it's an extraordinary operation, as we've been saying by them, Frank. Where do you think this leaves the region now? And what do you think about the timing? I mean, Russian Shoigu is visiting Iran today. The US envoy was in the region yesterday. We've got a US election coming up in weeks. It's so volatile. There's a lot of moving parts here, but I think rather, as Fouaz Jerigas mentioned there, the whole struggle, the whole confrontation that has gone on for a long time between Hezbollah and Iran on one side and Israel on the other is a very calibrated struggle. Both sides don't want to go to a full-scale war. Israel's interest is to push Hezbollah back north of the Latane River and stop the attacks on its own civilians and citizens on the Israeli side of that border.
Starting point is 00:10:13 It suits Iran to have Hezbollah niggle Israel by these constant little attacks, but not so much that it provokes a full-scale war, which, as he says, would be devastating for Lebanon. Lebanon's economy is already on its knees. The country is absolutely hobbled by one disaster after another. And ordinary Lebanese are saying to Hezbollah, please don't start a war with Israel. We can't take it. We don't want to see our buildings, our bridges, our hospitals
Starting point is 00:10:38 destroyed in a massive, great big Israeli air campaign. But Israel at the same time is under pressure from its own citizens to push Hezbollah back from the border so that its 60,000 citizens can return to their homes, their farms and their businesses. And it's beginning to run out of patience. And unless there is some kind of a peace deal, whether it's Shoigu or the UN or whoever can somehow knock heads together and get some kind of a peace deal, which looks unlikely, unless that happens, I think there is an increasing risk of a larger conflagration in that region. The BBC's security correspondent Frank Gardner, we also heard there from Fawaz Gurjah, Professor of International Relations at the London School of Economics.
Starting point is 00:11:22 The American music star Sean Diddy Combs has been taken into custody after pleading not guilty to sex trafficking and other charges at a federal court in New York. The rapper, one of the biggest names in hip-hop since the 1990s, was arrested late on Monday and the indictment against him was released early on Tuesday. Here's New York prosecutor Damien Williams outlining the allegations. The indictment alleges that Combs abused and exploited women and other people for years and in a variety of ways. As alleged, Combs used force, threats of force and coercion to cause victims to engage in extended sexual performances with male commercial sex workers, some of whom he transported or caused to be transported over state lines.
Starting point is 00:12:05 Combs allegedly planned and controlled the sex performances, which he called freak-offs. Sean Combs' legal team say he's innocent and they'll appeal against the decision to hold him without bail pending his trial. Here's his lawyer, Michael Agnifolio. Mr. Combs is a fighter. He's going to fight this to the end. He's innocent. He came to New York to establish his innocence. He's not afraid. He's not afraid of the charges. There's nothing that the government said in their presentation today that changes anyone's mind about anything. He's been looking forward to this day. He's been looking forward to clearing his name and he's going to clear his name. Edda Taufik is our correspondent in New York who's following the case.
Starting point is 00:12:47 Sean P. Diddy Combs has been charged with racketeering, sex trafficking, and transportation of prostitution. And essentially, the kind of overall charges is that he used his business as a criminal enterprise. He used his staff alongside his wealth to transport women as well as male sex workers across state lines to record sexual performances that he referred to as freak-offs. giving them drugs such as cocaine and ketamine, recording the sexual activities and using it as collateral to make sure that they remained silent. And they say that this was pervasive abuse for decades. He also resorted to attempts at kidnapping and arson to make sure that he wasn't caught. In the last couple of hours, we've learned that the judges decided not to give him bail. Why?
Starting point is 00:13:49 Sean Combs did plead not guilty in court. His lawyers argued that the sexual activity described in the indictment was all consensual and that he should be kept in home detention. But prosecutors essentially said that he was a flight risk that given his vast wealth as a billionaire he couldn't be trusted to stay and not to try to flee they also detailed their in allegations that he had tried to tamper with witnesses and obstruct justice and they said because he was a serial abuser he remained a threat to the community. They say they found a pink substance in his hotel where they arrested him, which they believe was drugs. And so they said that he should be held in detention for the safety of the community. And the judge essentially sided with prosecutors here.
Starting point is 00:14:38 What sort of sentence could he be facing, do you think? Look, it's a mandatory minimum of a 15-year prison sentence, but it goes all the way up to life behind bars if he's convicted of all three of these incredibly serious counts. And this case is really kind of similar, I would say, to that of R. Kelly, another trial that I covered. R. Kelly was facing similar charges, and R. Kellylly in two trials in new york and chicago got a combined sentence of 30 years in prison so prosecutors arguing that they have mountains of evidence to prove his guilt they say during two raids on his homes in miami and los angeles in march that they uncovered many electronic devices over 90 that they had footage of these so-called freak offs that they had interviewed dozens and dozens of 90, that they had footage of these so-called freak-offs,
Starting point is 00:15:25 that they had interviewed dozens and dozens of witnesses, and that they feel confident in their case. Neda Taufik with me from New York. We've been hearing in the last few days on the podcast about the devastating floods in Central and Eastern Europe. Over the summer, hurricanes and cyclones have battered North America and parts of Southeast Asia, and countries across Africa have also been suffering drought and severe rains. Some farmers in Malawi have found a novel way to rescue their banana crops by turning their overripe fruit into wine. And Okumu has the story. Emily is clearing weed from her once thriving banana plantation. A severe heat wave has turned most of her harvest into scorched soil and dried up leaves.
Starting point is 00:16:15 It is sad that we have to go through all this waste. The heat here is unbearable. All our hard work and investment is lost. Extreme weather events in Karonga District, northern Malawi, have become more frequent. Farmers here face a challenging mix of harsh heat and intense rain. So instead of throwing away overripe bananas, Emily and her colleagues have put them to better use. They use overripe bananas to make wine. Bananas are selected, peeled, sweetened and doused in yeast and lemons to preserve taste.
Starting point is 00:16:57 They are then fermented to make wine. Tennyson Gondwe is the CEO of ComSip Cooperative Union, which has been helping women venture into this business. We have invested very much in capacity building. We have also assisted them with the equipment for them to measure the quality and the quality content of the banana wine. Banana wine has proved a success in neighboring markets in Tanzania and Rwanda. But what about here in Malawi? Back at the farm, winemakers have a taste of their labor.
Starting point is 00:17:32 This is very sweet wine. You need to be seated to enjoy the flavors. Adapting to climate change is a tough challenge for farmers around the world. But as the farming community in this part of Malawi can testify, there can be alternative solutions. And Akuma reporting. Now, still to come in this podcast, Ecuador's new president says he wants US forces back on its soil to help fight drugs gangs.
Starting point is 00:18:01 And... We will take those non-reproductive animals and move them where the temperature was a little bit more stable. And about six months down the line, they are mating and laying eggs. Our scientists are getting endangered shellfish in Florida to find a mate. To be continued... Plus other great BBC podcasts from history to comedy to true crime, all ad-free. Simply subscribe to BBC Podcast Premium on Apple Podcasts or listen to Amazon Music with a Prime membership. Spend less time on ads and more time with BBC Podcasts. The social media giant Meta has announced new restrictions on Instagram for 13 to 15-year-olds.
Starting point is 00:19:08 There'll be new teen accounts for new joiners, although critics say those already on the platform will likely slip through the net. Here's our correspondent Angus Crawford. The first thing is it's going to start immediately. It's extraordinary. It's as if Meta was in a real hurry. So first of all, what's going to happen is new users signing up today will automatically default to a teen account, this new teen account. Now, why is that important? Well, this new teen account apparently will be locked down. That means the status will be private by default. There'll be restrictions on messaging, who you can message, restrictions on content you
Starting point is 00:19:41 can see, and the time that you can use the app. Now, what's also interesting is 16 and 17-year-olds will be able to turn off those restrictions, but for the first time, 13 to 15-year-olds, they'll need parental permission to turn off those features. And that's really interesting because that will engage then much more parental oversight of what they're doing. And it means that parents will have access to information about who they're messaging, what content they're looking at, and they will also be able to set things like timers on when young people can look at this kind of content. Now, what's really interesting as well,
Starting point is 00:20:18 the migration for those who are already on the app, the under-18s already on the app, that starts next week and will be a process that should continue across the world and may be completed, they say, by about Christmas. Hang on, though. I've got teenagers. All they're going to do is lie about when they were born, isn't it, and claim they're older than they are. This is exactly the problem that campaigners have pointed out.
Starting point is 00:20:41 Two problems on age verification. Number one, those already on the app, we all know plenty of teenagers, they simply lied when they first went on the app. So they could be on the app now at 14 claiming they joined when they were 20. So that's a real problem. And there's actually some really interesting research on that, which shows that something like 65% of 9 to 12 year olds who shouldn't be on the app at all, already have an Instagram account. So that's a big problem. How is Insta going to go back and age verify those young people who are on the app and shouldn't have been on the app and have lied about their age? So that's number one.
Starting point is 00:21:12 Number two, new users. There's got to be some really good age verification on the new users signing up. And what's really interesting is, you know, that has come in for a lot of criticism about age verification. So what is it going to do today about age verification that it wasn't doing yesterday? It's a really good point. Angus Crawford reporting. A former director at OceanGate, the company whose Titan submersible imploded last year
Starting point is 00:21:36 during a dive to the wreck of the Titanic, says he had no confidence in how the vessel was being built. David Lockridge has told a US Coast Guard hearing into the incident that his safety warnings were ignored by OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush. Mr Rush was one of five people killed by the implosion. Our science editor Rebecca Murrell was watching proceedings. This is the first time that David Lockridge has spoken publicly about his time at OceanGate.
Starting point is 00:22:02 The former Royal Navy engineer was employed from 2015 to 2018 while the Titan sub was being developed. He told the hearing that his job was to oversee safety. You have to have the confidence in the equipment to do the job. It's like every other industry. If you don't have the confidence in it, you don't do it. That's it. And did you have confidence in the way that the Titan was being built at this time? No confidence whatsoever. And I was very vocal about that and still am.
Starting point is 00:22:30 He told the hearing he'd warned OceanGate about significant problems. These included a viewport that was only deemed safe to 1,300 metres by its manufacturer, but the sub was diving three times deeper to get to the Titanic. He also said the material the sub was made of, carbon fibre, was of such poor quality that he could shine a torch through a five-inch thick sample of it. Several times he described Titan as an abomination of a sub. At the end of the day, safety comes first and any time you're going in a sub, most important thing is going home safe to your families.
Starting point is 00:23:04 Yes, you're taking a risk going down in a submersible, but don't take risks that are unnecessary with faulty, and I mean faulty, deficient equipment. Mr Lockridge was fired after raising these concerns. The hearings will continue for the next two weeks. It's 15 years since US soldiers left Ecuador and handed control of their base in Manta on the Pacific coast to the Ecuadorian authorities. Since then, powerful armed gangs and transnational drugs cartels have become a huge problem. And that's why the new president, Daniel Noboa, wants to change the constitution to allow foreign military bases to operate in Ecuador again. Rebecca Kesby spoke to Otto Raman Sollenholzer, who was vice president of Ecuador between 2018 and 2020. Did he think allowing foreign military involvement in the country
Starting point is 00:23:51 was a good idea? Politically, it is. And you have elections coming soon, next February, and you have a government that is having issues to keep up its popularity. In terms of solving the violence, it's not about having military personnel, its presence in the country. It's more about having access to technology and equipment. That's why I say that all cooperation is welcome from the U.S. or from anywhere. We do have the military personnel that is trained and that is ready for the fight and the police personnel as well. But we do need equipment for intelligence, for logistics, for air control. And that equipment is expensive.
Starting point is 00:24:30 So what we normally get from cooperating countries is, I don't know, secondhand equipment, stuff that they are not really using. That doesn't involve having or not having military bases. I don't think you lose any sovereignty, as the opposition to the government would say, if you having military bases. I don't think you lose any sovereignty, as the opposition to the government would say, if you have military bases. I don't think that it's necessary. That's all. I don't think that it's what we need right now. What we need right now is equipment, help, intelligence. Listen, helping money laundering. Most of the or many of the gangs are laundering their money also abroad. In 2009, when President Correa decided to expel the American base from Manta, Ecuador lost its operational capabilities to control its maritime space.
Starting point is 00:25:14 And it didn't replace that air surveillance of the Pacific Ocean with anything. In 2019, without having to bring back foreign bases, we recovered the control of the airspace on the Pacific Ocean. With that, the increase of the seizures of cocaine was exponential. But also when you increase the capture of drugs, you have violence rising. And that's where Ecuador is right now. Well, you say it's politically popular. And I guess that's because of the grip the country's in from the gangs and the drug cartels and so on. I mean, we've had huge prison breaks just this year. We had a television station taken over earlier on this year as well. And people in Ecuador are absolutely terrified of these armed groups and the grip
Starting point is 00:26:06 they have in the country. Yeah, Ecuador went from having around six violent deaths every 100,000 citizens to around 50 last year. So it's also an exponential increase. The more drugs you capture, the harder you fight drug gangs, the more violence you have. So it's a hard choice. As a leader, as a government, it's a hard choice. You have to make one. This is a transnational and multinational problem. Drug trafficking, it's not an Ecuador-only problem. And all help you can get from any country that really wants to help must be welcome.
Starting point is 00:26:38 And I think that's positive. But that having foreign bases in Ecuador will be part of the solution, I'm not sure about that. The 2026 Commonwealth Games were supposed to be held in the Australian state of Victoria, but officials there pulled out because of spiralling costs. Now, the Scottish government has agreed a deal that will bring the Games to Glasgow, just 12 years after the city last hosted the event. Our Scotland correspondent Catriona Renton reports. Welcome to Scotland! the event. Our Scotland correspondent Catriona Renton reports.
Starting point is 00:27:16 The opening ceremony for the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow 2014 was a spectacular event marking the beginning of a summer to remember. Glasgow 2026 has been given the green light by the Scottish government but it will be a much scaled down affair. After the Australian state of Victoria pulled out last year, Commonwealth Games Scotland suggested Glasgow could rescue the 2026 Games using existing infrastructure and venues. The cost for 2014 was £543 million. The budget for this Games is set to be about £114 million. Crucial to the decision, an assurance that no public money will be provided by the Scottish Government.
Starting point is 00:27:53 There will be 10 core sports at Glasgow 2026. There were 17 in 2014. And only four venues will be used, as opposed to 14 a decade ago. The proposal will now go to the Commonwealth Games Federation for consideration but this seems a formality. It's hoped the legacy from this Games will be a paired back model that is more attractive for places to host. The cost and organisational challenges associated with the event means it's hard to find willing hosts. So how bright does the future look for the Commonwealth Games? Here's our sports news correspondent, Laura Scott. For now, the Commonwealth Games has been given a lifeline,
Starting point is 00:28:31 but many will be wondering how much longer it can survive, given the difficulties faced in finding a host and scrutiny around the relevance of the Commonwealth. The UK and Australia have held every edition of the Commonwealth Games this century, apart from the 2010 Games in Delhi, and there is currently no host for 2030 after Alberta pulled out last year. But there is confidence among organisers that by resetting and refreshing the format and cutting the number of sports,
Starting point is 00:28:58 a more diverse group of nations will find it an appealing and affordable prospect to host. Organisers have already warned the cycling road race and the marathon are likely to be cut in Glasgow, with more difficult decisions to be taken in the coming weeks. However, they promise it will still be a world-class event and that a new model can breathe fresh life into the Commonwealth Games as its centenary approaches. Now it's being called speed dating for shellfish. The shallow waters around the Florida Keys get too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter for the endangered queen conch to reproduce. But the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission has a plan to save the species
Starting point is 00:29:36 by moving more than 200 conches to cooler, deeper waters to try to kickstart their sex drive, as Oliver Conway has been hearing from research scientist Gabriel Delgado. We will take those non-reproductive animals that don't contribute to future generations and move them into aggregations offshore on the reef track, where the temperature was a little bit more stable throughout the year and their reproductive capabilities are rescued. And about six months down the line, they are mating and laying eggs. One of the interesting things about queen conch is that they have separate male and female sexes, just like humans. But if their densities fall below a minimum threshold, they have trouble finding each other. And so what we're doing is moving these animals
Starting point is 00:30:21 from these areas where they're not reproductive to some of these aggregations that are at or below this minimum threshold to boost reproductive output from that aggregation. Now by doing this aren't you getting in the way of natural selection and why is it important to preserve them? If we were moving or releasing hatchery animals that would be derived from very few parents, then yes, we would be having genetic issues. But in this particular case, the genetics should not be an issue because we're moving wild animals to other wild animals, if you will, just boosting their density. As far as why that's important, the queen conch is a protected species in Florida. There used to be commercial and recreational fisheries for them, but they were closed due to overexploitation.
Starting point is 00:31:11 But culturally, the animal is still rather important to the Keys. The Keys are affectionately known as the Conch Republic. If you were born in the Keys, you're known as a saltwater conch. If you live in the keys long enough, they term you as a freshwater conch, just to make a difference between those who are actually native residents. So the animal is rather iconic to the keys and also throughout the Caribbean, where populations still support fisheries. So it's an important socioeconomic species throughout its range. Research scientist Gabriel Delgado. And that's all from us for now. There'll be a new edition of Global News to download later.
Starting point is 00:31:54 If you'd like to comment on this podcast, drop us a line. The address is globalpodcast at bbc.co.uk or on X we are at globalnewspod. This edition was produced by Judy Frankel and mixed by Caroline Driscoll. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Andrew Peach. Thank you for listening. And until next time, goodbye. Thank you.

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.