Global News Podcast - Pakistan vows to respond to Indian strikes

Episode Date: May 7, 2025

Pakistan says India's missile attack has ignited an "inferno in the region". India claims it targeted terrorist infrastructure. Also: Joe Biden speaks to the BBC, and cardinals gather to elect the next Pope.

This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Valerie Sanderson and at 13HR's GMT on Wednesday the 7th of May these are our main stories. Pakistan says India's overnight missile attack has ignited an inferno in the region and it's ready to respond. India claims it targeted nine sites which it described as terrorist infrastructure. We look at what this escalation in violence means for the region. More than 130 cardinals are being locked in at the Vatican in order to choose in a secret ballot a new leader of the Catholic Church.

Also in this podcast... What the hell's going on here? What president ever talks like that? That's not who we are. We're about freedom, democracy, opportunity. In an exclusive BBC interview, the former US President Joe Biden accuses his successor Donald Trump of appeasing Russia, warning that Europe is going to lose confidence in America's leadership. in America's leadership. A war between India and Pakistan is one the world cannot afford, so says the UN after the two nations exchanged fire overnight. Long-running tensions between the two nuclear-armed neighbours

have spiked since a militant attack two weeks ago on a tourist site in Indian-administered Kashmir. India accused Pakistan of supporting the militants and suspended participation in a water sharing agreement. Now, it's launched overnight missile strikes on what it said were terrorist sites in Pakistan and Pakistan-administered Kashmir. In a media briefing, Sgt Colonel Sophia Qureshi of the Indian Armed Forces said that everything had been done to avoid the death of civilians.

The selection of these targets for operations was based on credible intelligence and the role of these facilities in perpetrating terrorist activities. The locations were selected in order to avoid damage to civilian infrastructure and the loss of any civilian lives. As we record this podcast, Pakistan says 26 civilians have been killed and it's responded by shooting down five Indian jets. The two sides also exchanged heavy shelling and gunfire across their de facto border. The Indian Army says that artillery firing by Pakistan has led to the deaths of 15 civilians and injured 43 more since Tuesday night. Our correspondent in Delhi, Arunadeh Mukherjee, gave us the latest. We just got a word from the Indian Army at the moment and they said that after the Indian strikes

in Pakistan and Pakistan administered Kashmir there has been there had been heavy artillery fire overnight from the Pakistani side, according to the Indian Army. It said that the shelling hit civilian areas in the cities of Punj and Thangdar in Indian-administered Kashmir. So the Indian side also is talking about, while it makes its argument that we hit terror camps,

according to the Indian Army in Pakistan and Pakistan-administer Pakistan administered Kashmir shelling from the Pakistani side in response has ended up killing civilians taking the lives of civilians here in India as well so that's the argument that India is making overall the situation continues to be tense and you know the worry is once this action from India ended what next because there has been some tough talk from Pakistan as well. What that translates onto is the big worry. Well, this was the response to the strikes from Pakistan's military spokesperson, Amir Sharif Chaudhary.

Tonight, cowardly India has made a reckless statement against Pakistan and targeted innocent civilians. Pakistani forces, with the full support of the people, are currently delivering a strong and complete response to this act of the enemy, and a befitting reply will be given. Many residents in Pakistan were woken in the small hours of the morning to the sound of deafening blasts. In Mozaffarabad, the main city of Pakistan, administered Kashmir, troops cordoned off streets around a mosque that Islamabad said was hit by an Indian missile. BBC Urdu's Farhat Javed is there.

Just a few metres from here is the Bilal mosque, which was one of the targets of Indian strikes last night. This whole area has been cordoned off. There is a heavy presence of the troops of Pakistan army and other security forces here who are not allowing anyone to go past this point. The building of the mosque has been completely damaged. We can see debris and large fragments of metal rooftops scattered everywhere. Not only the building of this mosque was damaged, but some of the houses which were very close to the mosque, they are also partially damaged. Most of the residents that they had left last night, some of them had managed to come back today to assess the damages to their properties. I have spoken to some of them who say that

they were fast asleep when they heard explosions and they saw huge sparks of light when the missiles struck this building. One of them says that we were sleeping when we heard the first blast. He says that we ran out of our homes with our families and children. The kids were terrified and shocked and everyone was screaming. He says, another resident I have spoken with, he says that the streets were filled with people fleeing in fear and unsure of what was happening. A sense of fear, uncertainty and trauma is not limited to this part only, but as we walk through the city, we can see that the impact of this attack is on everyday life is quite

visible. Streets are quiet, but atmosphere is quite tense. And people are trying to make sense of what happened last night. Farhat Javad. So where could this escalation in violence lead? Pakistan has described India's missile strikes as a heinous crime, saying they manifestly constitute acts of war and have ignited an inferno in the region. Our chief international

editor, Elise Doucet, has this analysis. It is a very risky moment. It's always a risky moment when two nuclear states, India and Pakistan, start these tit-for-tat kind of strikes. And it is particularly dangerous right now because it's really hard to see who can restrain them. In the past, when Pakistan, because of the war in Afghanistan next door, had a very close relationship with the United States, American diplomats could pick up the phone. The United States right now, of course, has a lot on its agenda, although Marco Rubio has called on both sides to exercise restraint. But in 2025, the main backer of Pakistan in terms of funding and arming, the

Pakistani army, which is the main player when it comes to moments like this, is China, not the United States. And India may feel emboldened now. Narendra Modi always called the Trump of India, very close relationship between India and the United States, very close personal relationship between Narendra Modi and Donald Trump. He may feel he's got wind in his sails. So there's a sense in which Pakistan will feel it has to reply and it will try, like India says it did, to do something which is very targeted. But as we see time and again in this kind of a conflict, there's always the risk of an accidental escalation. Yeah, because we've been hearing about the fiery rhetoric on the Indian side, the Pakistani

military, a big power broker in the country. It won't want to look weak. Well, indeed, they're very powerful 24-hour television networks in both Pakistan and India. They will be an overdrive now. And let us say some of them have a very loose relationship to the truth. This relationship between India and Pakistan is always burning. Sometimes it's embers, sometimes like now it's blazing flames, but it is an open wound and the wound is biggest in Kashmir, which goes back to the founding of the states of India and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

when the Indian subcontinent was divided, was partitioned in 1947. Leigh Stucett speaking to Oliver Conway. As we record this podcast, 133 cardinals are preparing to be locked in at the Vatican until they perform one of their most solemn duties, Catholic Church following the death of Pope Francis. Well this morning the start of the conclave was marked with a special holy mass at St Peter's Basilica with choristers singing as the cardinals walked down the aisle wearing their red robes and white headdresses known as mitres. Presiding over the mass, the Dean of the College of Cardinals urged his colleagues to choose

a leader who can guide the Catholic Church during what he called a difficult and complex time. In a few hours' time, everyone but the electors must leave the Sistine Chapel and they then enter isolation until they've chosen a new pope with the first ballot taking place this evening. Our Europe correspondent Sarah Rainsford has been looking into how the secret vote is conducted. These were the final preparations in the Sistine Chapel for this week's conclave. Instead of tourists wandering at Michelangelo's frescoes,

men in hard hats were building desks for 133 cardinal electors. They installed the stove where the voting slips will be burned after every ballot, and the chimney that will eventually pump out the white smoke that announces a new pope has been chosen. It must be the most secretive election in the world. From the moment the last cardinal entered the Vatican guest house, they all went into

lockdown. It will only end when the men agree on a successor to Pope Francis. From cooks and cleaners to drivers and doctors, even the staff in the Vatican had to swear an oath that they'll keep everything they see during the conclave under wraps for life. This is John Allen of Crux News, who's been writing about the Vatican for three decades. Yeah, during the conclave itself there are electronic jammers to make sure that cell phone signals, for instance, and Wi-Fi signals are not getting in or getting out. Cardinals are requested to surrender all their electronic devices at the beginning of the process. They

take the idea of isolation during the conclave itself extremely seriously. And this of course is to ensure that the election of the Pope is not conditioned by any outside influence but is a genuinely free decision among the cardinals themselves. There's actual jammers that don't entirely trust the cardinals in that sense. I suppose the logic is trust but verifying. Good morning father, how's it going? How fast? Impossible. That secrecy, and of course the significance of this vote, is why before the conclave journalists

like me could be found hovering outside the Vatican walls. We were on the lookout for those distinctive red robes of any cardinals. Good morning. How are the discussions going? Before the lockdown began, it was our chance to grill them on the discussions and try to suss out any favourites. Good morning. Good morning, good morning.

I can just about see a red cardinal's cap in the middle of this circle. Every single one of them is getting swamped as they try to head in towards the congregation, surrounded by cameras and microphones, and barely able to pass. Father, are you reaching any kind of consensus yet? There is never a surprise in the church.

In fact, there could be a surprise. Last Sunday, I toured several churches in Rome, meeting Catholics from all over the world. And no one could be sure he'll be Pope. This was the Nigerian church. Glory to the Lord, just in the name of God. The hope that we'll get a new Pope who continues in the line of our predecessor Francis. What is it that you liked about Francis? His goodness, his kind-heartedness, his welcoming of everyone to the church.

We're not saying don't change the church's perspective, but welcome everyone. We're all children of God in the end. Do you think it's possible that it could be an African pope? Hopefully, but at the end of the day, if it's African, I mean, I'm African, I'd definitely be very happy about that first black pope in history, but then at the end of the day, it's what God wants. Sarah Rainsford reporting from the Vatican. And in a special episode of the Global News Podcast, How Will

the Next Pope be Chosen, our religion editor, Ali McBool, answers your questions on how the conclave works and who might be chosen for the next papacy. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Still to come on this Global News Podcast... We were interested to understand why the milestone varies so much in when children start walking. So some start as early as eight months and others up to 18 months. It's actually a massive window. Researchers find that genetics strongly influence when a baby will take its first steps. In an exclusive interview with the BBC, the former US President Joe Biden has accused

his successor Donald Trump of appeasing Russia and Vladimir Putin. He also condemned Mr Trump's language towards other nations, saying it's beneath America. Mr Biden was speaking in his first interview since leaving the White House to Nick Robinson to commemorate the 80th anniversary of Victory Day, which marked the end of the Second World War. Nick asked him what lessons it teaches us. The fact is that my father and mother's generation knew what was at stake. They knew that democracy was literally hanging in the balance. You know, the United States has never been able to avoid a war in Europe. And so one of the smartest things we did after World War II was we formed NATO because alliances provide security.

You know what they're saying in this administration. The US defense secretary talks about European freeloading. The vice president talks about your country, the United States, bailing out Europe. There's an anger there. Have they not got a point? No, they don't have a point. Look, imagine there being no NATO. Do you think Putin would have stopped Ukraine?

I don't understand how they failed to understand that there's strength in alliances. There's benefits, the costs there, it saves us money overall. Let's turn to Ukraine, can we? Because you compared the war in Ukraine with the Second World War. President Trump is now saying, look, if you want peace, Ukraine is going to have to give up some territory. Some people think that is common sense to say that. Do you think it's not common sense? It's perhaps modern day appeasement?

It is modern day appeasement. Look, listen to what Putin said when he talked about going from Kiev into Ukraine and why. He can't stand the fact that the Russian dictatorship that he runs, that the Soviet Union has collapsed, and anybody thinks he's going to stop is just foolish. What did you make of those scenes in the Oval Office, President Trump and President Zelensky? I found it beneath America, the way that took place, and the way we talk about now that, well,

it's the Gulf of America. Maybe we're going to have to take back Panama. Maybe we need to acquire Greenland. Maybe Canada should be... What the hell's going on here? What president ever talks like that? That's not who we are. We're about freedom, democracy, opportunity, not about confiscation.

I can hear your passion. I can hear your anxiety that the world is changing the way it has. And for a long time, you said, I'm the man who can stop Donald Trump. And you did once. And in the end, you withdrew from that election campaign at the last minute It's a question, you know, lots of people ask you mr. President. Did you leave it too late?

Should you have withdrawn earlier? I don't think it would have mattered regrets that No, I think was the right decision. I think that it was just a difficult decision. But you shouldn't have taken it earlier. I don't think so. I mean, I don't know how that would have made much difference. The former US President Joe Biden speaking to Nick Robinson. And you can watch the full interview on YouTube, search for political thinking with Nick Robinson.

On Friday, Russia will mark 80 years since the defeat of Nazi Germany with a massive Red Square parade. Invited world leaders start arriving in Moscow today, including China's President Xi Jinping, in a sign of support for Vladimir Putin. The Kremlin leader may be celebrating a great victory of the past, but he's yet to secure victory in the war he's waging in Ukraine. Mr Putin has announced a three-day ceasefire in that conflict, starting Thursday evening, to mark the events of the Second World War.

And as our Russia editor Steve Rosenberg reports, the Kremlin has been trying to convince the Russian public that the country's historic battles are strongly connected to its present ones. Raging in front of me is the battle for Berlin. As plumes of thick grey smoke fill the air, the Red Army pours across a bridge and forces German troops to retreat. The advancing soldiers tear down a swastika and replace it with a hammer and sickle. Victory. The battle for Berlin is being reenacted in the town of Dubna, 80 miles from Moscow.

It's one of many events in Russia, marking 80 years since the defeat of Nazi Germany. Victory came at an enormous human cost. More than twenty seven million Soviet citizens killed in what is known here as the Great Patriotic War. Among them, Katya's grandfather. I've come here to watch this, she tells me, because my granddad fought and went missing near Berlin. Later we found out he was killed in January 1945. Eighty years on, Katya's son is fighting in Ukraine.

My son is in a war now, Katya says. He volunteered for the special military operation. I tried to talk him out of it, but he never listens. I'm my own czar, he told me. Well, go fight then if you're a czar, I said. He went with his friend. His friend was killed. Katya's grandfather battled the Nazi invasion.

Her son is part of an invasion force attacking Ukraine. Different wars. Yet the Kremlin portrays one as the continuation of the other. It claims that today Russia again is fighting Nazism and fascism in Ukraine and across Europe to make Russians believe that the so-called special military operation the war in Ukraine puts them on the right side of history and to unite them against an external enemy Andrei Kolesnikov is a columnist for Norway Gazeta is a columnist for Norway's yet a

Historically and sociologically victory in a great patriotic war was always a cornerstone of Russian United consciousness it was always so but now this is something special because the great patriotic war This is only the first step in our permanent war with the West It's euro fascism if you want, and the special military operations, this is a continuation of the Great Patriotic War. This is something new. Well I've driven to another little town now on the edge of Moscow called Himki and I'm standing on Victory Street. On the sides of apartment blocks opposite there are giant posters about four stories

high of local World War II veterans. But there's also a monument here, a new one, shows a Red Army soldier from the Great Patriotic War side by side with a Russian soldier who's fighting in Ukraine. There are also framed photographs here of Russian servicemen killed in Ukraine. It's a powerful image and one clearly designed to connect in the public consciousness wars past and present. Russian tanks roar towards Red Square at a rehearsal for Friday's Victory Day Parade. In Moscow, the Russian word for victory, Bab'yat'a, is everywhere, on bus stops and billboards, in shop windows. This is a country whose national idea is built around an invincible Russia. And yet, amid

the celebrations of a victory 80 years ago, Russia has yet to defeat Ukraine after more than three years of war. Steve Rosenberg, last month the United States introduced a staggering 145% tariff on imports from China. Beijing hit back with levies of 125% on some American goods. Now it's been announced that the two economic superpowers are to hold their first talks since that trade war began. We got more details from our Asia Pacific regional editor, Celia Hatten. The talks are starting on Saturday. They're going to feature Vice Premier He Li-Feng. He's going to meet with the US Treasury Secretary Scott Besson. Now, I will say that the language

going into these talks is not the most friendly we've ever heard. So Beijing has said that the talks are being held at the United States request. They're making pretty clear that they're not the ones who initiated this. The US wants this more. They're also adding in that any form of pressure or coercion will not work on China and they are willing to fight the trade war to the end if they have to. So not the best scenario to enter into. Scott Bessent for his part has told Fox News that this is about de-escalation, not negotiating a big trade deal.

Although he has admitted that the current tariffs in place on both sides are not sustainable. So there's some movement for negotiation, but I think they're really trying to keep expectations quite low, especially on China's side. But interesting to see some movement after both sides have been talking tough for quite a long time. Yeah, I mean, they're talking tight, but we have to remember that both economies are really starting to feel the bite from these tariffs. So we've seen a really steep drop in Chinese manufacturing, which is a big deal for China. A third of their economy relies on manufacturing and is really dependent on exporting, especially to the US, their top customer. The US is really seeing a lot of criticism internally from companies

that are really dependent on bringing stuff in from China. And we're seeing, for example, a huge drop at the biggest US port, the port of Los Angeles, has seen a drop in the number of containers coming into the port by a third. So US companies and consumers really starting to feel the bite there and the effects of these tariffs. Briefly, no doubt the rest of the world also breathing a sigh of relief. Yeah, I think so. Although I will say that China really has made a big reach to try to develop ties with other economies, with the EU, with Japan. You know, right after the vice premier leaves talks with the US, he's going to go straight to France to work on a trade deal with France. So Beijing's

been really busy while this trade war with the United States has been going on. Celia Hatton speaking to Oliver Conway. And finally, if you're a parent, I'm sure you remember those major moments from your child's early years. The first tooth, the first words and the first precarious wobbly steps. Perhaps you felt a bit worried about how long it took before they started walking. Well, scientists now say that genes play a considerable role in influencing when that happens. Researchers at the universities of Surrey and Essex here in the UK analysed the genetic information of more than 70,000 babies and identified 11 genetic markers linked

to when they began to walk. Professor Angelica Ronald, a senior researcher on the study, told us more. We really didn't know what we'd find. Working on infancy is actually sort of vastly neglected in genetic research and so I was really thrilled to find what we did. You tend to think that parents are important and the environment and nutrition and things like that. So we were fascinated to find these genes as well and that they're so important in brain development. I think it's just such an important milestone for the child and parents when this happens they can see more, they can reach for more toys and it can be nerve-racking waiting for that moment when a child takes their first step unaided.

But parents can give their child lots of room to practice and time to practice but the fact that we've conducted this large study we were interested to understand why the milestone varies so much in when children start walking. So some start as early as eight months and others up to 18 months. So it's actually a massive window for an infant's lifespan. And so genes play a major role in that, in coordinating when that happens. And it's probably to do with that child's brain development. So the parent can do so much, but I feel from our findings that you shouldn't worry too much if they walk in that window of time. The child will have its own unique set of genetic influences. Professor Angelica Ronald.

And that's it from us for now, but there'll be a new edition of the Global News podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, send us an email. The address is globalpodcast.bbc.co.uk. This edition was mixed by Louis Griffin. The producer was Stephanie Zachrisson. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Valerie Sanderson. Until next time, bye bye.