Global News Podcast - Pope Francis funeral - special episode

Episode Date: April 26, 2025

The Pope's funeral was attended by dozens of politicians and royalty. We hear from correspondents in Rome and countries with close links to the Pope - the DRC, Philippines and Argentina.

You're listening to a special edition of the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Rachel Wright and in this episode recorded on Saturday 26th April, we are marking the funeral of Pope Francis. The ceremony was attended by leaders and dignitaries from 130 countries. The funeral was simpler than for previous popes on the wishes of Francis himself, and the cardinal who led the service described how he'd touched the lives of ordinary people. He gave of himself by comforting and encouraging us with a message capable of reaching people's hearts. We'll bring you a sense of the ceremony itself and report on how the event was followed around the world.

The world has been saying goodbye to the 266th Pope. Despite the wishes of Pope Francis for the funeral to be simple, the ceremony was spectacular, with the red and purple garments of the clergy, music and dignitaries from over 130 countries, many of them dressed in their traditional robes. It was held in St Peter's Square under blue skies and the warm spring sunshine. Here's a flavour of the mass. A reading from the Acts of the Apostles. In those days, Peter opened his mouth and said, truly, I understand that God shows no partiality. Dicite iterum secundum, Simon Ioannis,

Delegismem. He established direct contact with individuals and peoples, eager to be close to everyone with a marked attention to those in difficulty, giving himself without Our correspondent in Rome is Sarah Rainsford. In parts absolutely beautiful, in parts extremely simple. It was ecumenical, there were representatives here of multiple faiths. It was also multinational, both in terms of the crowd that surrounds me still here on the streets of the Vatican and also in terms of those world leaders of

course who are at the front of the crowd sitting on those seats close to the coffin of Pope Francis. There was an enormous amount of ritual, of course, in all of this, and a long, long funeral mass, almost two hours. At the heart of it was a homily that was read by one of the cardinals. It was a really, I thought, touching and personal account of the life of Pope Francis, the key moments and the sort of spirit of his papacy. But also, it did at times become quite political because it refers specifically to the Pope's call for the world to build bridges and not walls. Of course, a message that he had previously directed towards Donald

Trump. Donald Trump then today sitting in the front row. The Pope and Donald Trump have clashed in the past over the US policy on migration. And it was interesting that, as in the Homily, the Cardinal talked about the Pope's work, essentially embracing refugees and migrants, there was a lot of applause from those sitting around me here. But generally speaking, they were following this mass closely. It's a hot, hot day. Lots of people with umbrellas up or hats

on to protect them from the sun. And lots of young Catholics here too, Catholics from all over the world who wanted to be here to be part of what is a really important day for them and for Catholics everywhere. And tell me about the crowds of people that came to the square to watch. Did the logistics go well? I mean, I remember going to a big ceremony in the square and being squashed in the side streets early in the morning before the gates were opening.

Is that, was that your experience? Yeah, massive, massive logistical operation, but extremely well organized and very, very calm. This morning, it was a bit frantic because it was about about 5.30am to 6am this morning when I saw nuns and priests dashing through the side streets of the Vatican to try to get to the front on St Peter's Square and to place there as far forward as they possibly could be. But basically this is a really, really large crowd. But extremely,

extremely calm, extremely well managed, lots of police but keeping a fairly low presence, you know, there's no obvious heavy police presence where I was even though just this big crowd of Catholics here, you know, there are 50 plus heads of state here as of royal families from various countries. Sarah Rainsford in Rome. Well, as well as a religious occasion this was of course a remarkable collection of world leaders all in one place, some very much at loggerheads. Our Europe regional editor Paul Moss was watching the ceremony.

This certainly is potential for embarrassment. I mean, in any normal situation this would be a terrible difficulty for the poor person trying to arrange the seating, trying to make sure that potential enemies weren't sat next to each other. Fortunately, when it comes to papal funerals, there are very strict rules about who sits where. It's according to partly alphabetical order, but also according to whether they're heads of states or politicians.

Of course, the most obvious potential for conflict was the fact that President Zelensky was there, but also Russia's Culture minister, Olga Ljubimova. It's notable, I think, that Russia didn't send a more senior representative. I guess someone like Vladimir Putin and others are actually subject to an international arrest warrant. Also, of course, Donald Trump there, along with his predecessor, Joe Biden, himself a Catholic. We know those two don't get on there.

Joe Biden has been the victim of some rather colourful language, shall we say, from a Catholic. We know those two don't get on there. Joe Biden has been the victim of some rather colorful language, shall we say, from Donald Trump. But I should say that as well as talking about, you know, the potential for embarrassment, you also have all these leaders together. There's the potential for diplomacy always present. And I was struck that Cardinal Batista Ray and his homily quoted Pope Francis often repeating words, build bridges not walls. And we now know that there really was some attempt to do that because it was revealed that before the funeral Donald

Trump sat down for a meeting with President Zelensky. There's video footage of the two men meeting and then sitting huddled together. Now let's bear in mind it's less than two months since they had that terrible bust up in the Oval Office. The White House said this meeting was constructive and there was even more positive note from President Zelensky. He later tweeted, we discussed a lot hoping for results on everything we covered, a reliable and lasting peace. He said it was a very symbolic meeting that has the

potential to become historic. And as well as guests who may not have got on with each other, some were present who weren't too keen on the Pope while he was alive. Yes, one of the first people I saw arriving was the Argentinian President Javier Millet. In many ways, of course, an important guess because Pope Francis himself came from Argentina. His first senior post was as Bishop of Buenos Aires. Now, President Millet is an arch-free market conservative. He certainly had no time for Pope Francis' thoughts on poverty and perhaps Pope Francis'

ideas that unfettered capitalism was a bad thing. Mr Millet actually called the Pope at one point an imbecile who promoted communism. Now he is known for his wild language, but I assume he was on his best behaviour today. And then of course Donald Trump. Now he didn't criticise the Pope, but the Pope did criticise his administration, particularly its treatment of immigrants. He called the roundups of immigrants a disgrace. Now Donald Trump isn't normally exactly tongue-tied, but he hasn't said anything back in return and perhaps like President Millay, he'll be on best behaviour and won't have been saying anything negative about the Pope today.

Poor Moss. As well as the dozens of heads of state and royal guests attending the outdoor service, homeless people, migrants and prisoners were also invited at the request of the late pope. Giant screens were set up to allow the faithful to watch. Our colleague Marion Moshiri was among them. Well, it was quite an experience watching that funeral ceremony with the crowd here in St Peter's Square. There were moments when the crowd clapped and cheered. There were moments when people cried. There were moments when people got on their knees and they prayed. Some priests came along the crowd as well and gave the Eucharist during that ceremony too. It was very emotional and highly

charged and at one point you could see people shouting out, Grazia Francesco, thank you Frances as they carried the coffin back into St Peter's Square. Well, I found some people who watched the funeral service with us, and here we have Emiliano and Agnese. Emiliano, you are from Rome. How was the funeral? What did you feel when you stood here watching it? We used to meet many times with Pope, so it's a very big loss for us and yeah we hope all the best of course because we really hope that the words, the sentences that Pope Francisco said in the past will remain in the mind of the people so I hope they're really this.

Thank you very much Emiliano and Isi. Thank you very much. And here we have a big group of young scouts who've come all the way from Padma. Hello everyone. Hello. I'm going to speak to you Alessandro. You've been volunteered to speak to me. Why are you here? Yeah, we all feel sad but it's time to... Today is the day that we look at the future and we think what to do in the future

to bring his message even after his death. Alessandro, thank you so much and thank you all of you for waiting so patiently to speak to us. I'm also joined here by a couple of nuns who come all the way from Nigeria, Sister Beatrice and Sister Lucy. Thank you so much for staying and talking to us. And I saw you earlier, Sister Beatrice,

you were so emotional, weren't you? Yes, I was. For me, the loss of Papa Francis is a great loss. Because in him I saw a holy man who loved the lowly, the simple, the needy, especially. He is a man of peace and he accepts everybody no matter the race, the language, where you come from. So for me we've lost a great man and I pray that whomever we are choosing as the nice folk will also take up the legacy he has laid for the church. Some of the thousands of people who watched today's ceremony in St Peter's Square. As we've been hearing one of the key themes in the homily read by Cardinal Battista Ray was the Pope's work to serve refugees and migrants around the

world. Our correspondent in Rome Mark Lowen has been telling us more. There was reference to the fact that his Pope Francis's first visit outside Rome in 2013 shortly after his election was to the Italian island of Lampedusa, very much on the front line of the migrant arrival. That got a round of applause. And so migration was very much at the centre of today's proceedings. I spoke to Father Mattia Ferrari, who is a chaplain who works on a boat, a migrant rescue boat for migrants, and he also works at a squat here in Rome that welcomes migrants. And I asked him for his memories of Pope Francis. What we remember especially from him is that he taught us to love, not just with his words

but also with his behaviours. His vision was the vision of the Gospel, that means that poor and the migrants have a special place in the heart of God and that they are special brother and sister. Fraternity is not just a spiritual value, fraternity is a political value. Talk to me a little bit about when you met him. I met him in 2017 and our strong relationship began in 2023. Tell us what he was like in person. It was very similar to the person you could see on television. Very very sweet person and also his way to look at people, to watch people, to watch your eyes, especially to understand the suffering and the hopes of the people.

Do you feel with his passing that you now have an absence in that way? Of course, we are Christians, we believe in Jesus, we believe in resurrection, of course we know that Pope Francis is with us, but he's not on the earth. That's why we will miss his presence and his love. But we will not miss the presence and the support of the Church because the Church will continue this path. And you will miss a personal friend? A father and an elder brother.

And Mark, you also spent a lot of time with Pope Francis as Rome correspondent. I believe you even went to Iraq with him. Tell us about that. I did. I went on his papal trip to Iraq in 2021, which was one of the most audacious of his 45 international trips because he was going to a country that was still war torn, that still has security issues. He later said that there were a couple of attempted suicide attacks on the papal convoy that had been foiled by security services before he arrived. It was in the middle of the Covid pandemic, but he was absolutely determined to go to Iraq, the first papal visit there ever, and also a sign of how he wanted to

go to the peripheries of the Catholic faith to revive small Catholic populations and also a sign of how he wanted to go to the peripheries of the Catholic faith to revive small Catholic populations and also to reach out to other faiths. And that was very much also a hallmark of his papacy. Mark Lowen in Rome. Well, Africa was a continent close to Pope Francis's heart. He made five trips throughout his papacy and visited 10 countries there, including the Democratic Republic of Congo. We spoke to our correspondent in the capital Kinshasa, Emery Makumeno.

Pope Francis was here at Notre Dame de Congo exactly on the 2nd February 2023. And during his visit here, he met with the consecrated, the nuns and the priests, and he had a special mass only with them. And here I have about 200 plus people who have come to attend the last moment as they are seeing the coffin taken away from the ceremonial place. Africa has at least two 81 million Catholics, and BRC happens to be the one with the largest number, about 55 million. It's the number one in the continent.

What the church statistics say is that the number of believers is increasing quite a lot. It's not the same with the number of consecrated priests and nuns. The call is not increasing that much. But of course, one out of five people or Catholics are believed to be African. Emory Macumeno, who was at the Catholic Cathedral in Canshasa whilst the congregation was watching the funeral. There's also a very large Catholic population in the Philippines. Pope Francis visited the country in 2015, one of three pontiffs to do so, and had an

enormous influence on the Catholic Church, as we heard from Jonathan Head, who was at a church service in the capital Manila. The church here is very established. Nearly 80% of Filipinos follow it officially. And yet it has challenges. It's been caught up in politics. It's been accused of getting too close to those in power in the past. It's been losing converts to newer charismatic Christian sects, and attendance at mass has been falling. So many of the priests have talked about how Pope Francis' sort of very down-to-earth, grounded approach to spreading the word.

And in his natural way with people, his sense of humor, his humility, have really helped them to reestablish a bit more morale and momentum in the church and to try to reverse those trends. He very much supported those priests who believe in a social mission. The Philippines is a Latin country with a very strong Spanish influence and a lot of priests have been influenced by liberation theology. There's also grinding poverty, huge inequality here, lots of injustices.

Those priests who always argued the church should be very active on those issues have felt empowered by Pope Francis. Jonathan Head in Manila As we record this podcast, people in the Pope's home country of Argentina are preparing to say farewell to him with a mass at the Metropolitan Cathedral in Buenos Aires. Francis was Archbishop of the city before accepting the papacy in 2013. Joining me on the Global News podcast live from the mass is Veronica Spink from BBC Mundo.

Veronica, tell us what's happening there. Well, Amas is underway here to celebrate the life of Pope Francis. And after the mass, the Archbishop of Buenos Aires has invited people to walk around the city to the places where Francis used to go when he was Jorge Bergoglio. He was the Archbishop for 15 years until he left in 2013 at age 76, never to return. The idea is for people to go to the places where he used to go. They're going to stop at the hospital, they're going to stop at a soup kitchen, even a jail. These are all the places that the Pope used to visit when he was Archbishop here. And how have people in Argentina been reacting to the death of Pope Francis over the past week?

Well, many here remembering him in a similar way as how he used to live, in a very simple way, a very austere way. Most people going to masses that have been held since Monday, since his death was announced. There has been masses here at the Metropolitan Cathedral where I am, but also in churches all over the country. Many people today are coming in from all over Buenos Aires, the periphery, where he was specially loved, especially in the poor areas. And of course Pope Francis, even though he came from Buenos Aires, he never returned after he became Pope. That's right. And that was a bit of an issue. It was contentious. People here wouldn't understand. Many felt very sad and some even angry by the fact that in 12 years he never visited

Argentina even though he had gone to four countries surrounding Argentina, neighbour countries. That was a cause of huge disappointment here, but as the Archbishop of Buenos Aires said, many now that they see how the world has reacted to his death are finally understanding that Jorge Bergoglio was not just an Argentine, he was a citizen of the world, and they're allowing Jorge Bergoglio

to become Francis finally. Veronica Spink in Buenos Aires, thank you very much. Pope Francis is the first pope to be buried outside the Vatican in 100 years. He chose instead to be buried in the simple church of Santa Maria Maggiore, which he often prayed in. It's considered to be the church for the homeless, as Nick Robinson has been finding out. My name is Alessandro Radicchi, I'm the founder of Binari 95, a charity that helps homeless people in Rome and in Italy. Around the church there is the life of people that do not have a house, and for them Santa Maria Maggiore and the quarter all around Santa Maria Maggiore is their house.

I would say in some ways the church of the homeless people. That's why I think he chose Santa Maria Maggiore. And you know, in this church, we will have so many homeless people waiting for him and welcoming him is like for me saying welcome back home, in our home and he's the Pope of the street and for them he will always remain the Pope of the street. One of those helped here at this hostel is Leonardo, a refugee from Angola. I know Pope Francis was a very good guy. He was a pope for all the people, also for the poor people. He has worked a lot. His mission was to work for the poor people, but the mission

hasn't been so long and he's a pope of the underdogs. That report by Nick Robinson at the Church of Santa Maria Maggiore. Let's end the podcast with the thoughts of our religion editor Ali Mokbul who's in Rome. So what did he make of the funeral for Pope Francis? An amazing occasion in many ways, given the stage, it was always going to be that. While it was marked by the departures and that's what I was really fascinated by the departure certainly through being driven on the Pope Mobile through the streets and having the public having the final goodbye being taken to a separate place because popes are usually buried in the crypt here at St Peter's.

Having the people have an opportunity to say goodbye like that and for a group of homeless, of the poor and needy, greet him on the steps of the Santa Maria Maggiore Basilica, were incredible touches. But of course there was still the ritual, the tradition, the symbolism of everything we had expected. That's not to say that the public around here, and we think around 200,000 people were in the streets, didn't make their presence felt and participated during the mass. Aline McBall at the Vatican. And that's all from this special edition to mark the funeral of Pope Francis.

The normal global news podcast will be back later. This edition was mixed by Craig Kingham and the producer was Rebecca Wood. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Rachel Wright. Until next time, goodbye.