Global News Podcast - President Putin says Russia will respond to the Ukrainian offensive in the Kursk region

Episode Date: August 12, 2024

Speaking at a Russian security council meeting, he said the Russian army must dislodge Kyiv's troops from the border region. Also: The leader of a Kenyan cult goes on trial for manslaughter over the deaths of more than four hundred of his followers; and the Italian media is exercised about rumours that Madonna wants to hire the ancient ruins of Pompeii to stage a birthday party.

Hello, this is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service, with reports and analysis from across the world. The latest news seven days a week. BBC World Service podcasts are supported by advertising. If you're hearing this, you're probably already listening to BBC's award-winning news podcasts. But did you know that you can listen to them without ads? Get current affairs podcasts like Thank you. Amazon Music with a Prime membership. Spend less time on ads and more time with BBC podcasts. This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Nick Miles and at 13 hours GMT on Monday the 12th of August, these are our main stories.

Russia is evacuating people from another border region as Ukraine continues its surprise attack. Greece's most severe wildfire this year is approaching the northern outskirts of the capital, Athens. The leader of a Kenyan cult has gone on trial for manslaughter following the discovery last year of more than 400 bodies in mass graves. Also in this podcast, the US has sent a submarine to the Middle East. We'll hear from our chief international correspondent on the latest situation in the region. And after the Olympic Games, President Macron thanks volunteers and organisers in Paris and says they proved the doubters wrong. Increasing numbers of Russians are being moved from their homes as Ukraine continues a week-long

military offensive in the Kursk region its governor Alexei Smirnov said evacuation orders had been extended to the Belovsky district south of Ukraine's main maneuvers and with a population of 14,000 people a further 11,000 have left their homes in an adjoining district of the Byelgorod region because of what its governor called enemy activity on the border. Videos online show Ukrainian soldiers in Russian villages raising their blue and yellow national flag on official buildings. Thousands of soldiers are now believed to be as far as 30 kilometres inside Russian territory. James Waterhouse is in Ukraine's Sumy region, close to the border

with Russia. We've seen notably around the city of Sumy a lot of military vehicles, Ukrainian tanks, personnel carriers, supply trucks, all emblazoned with this triangle logo on the side, suggesting they're all part of the same operation. And dare I say, there's a sort of whiff of morale in the air, because for the first time there is movement, and clearly Ukraine is committed to this attack. We've seen a lot of elite-looking soldiers going back and forth, and the signs are today that they are continuing to expand their occupation of Russian territory. There are advances in the northwesterly direction and with

evacuations ordered in Belgorod it's showing that they are committed to it and the signs are also that Russia is redeploying forces notably from Kupyansk in the northern part of the front line. But, and it's a big but, there are still Russian advances taking place in eastern Ukraine. And this is still, Nick, a high-stakes move. Because Ukraine will be hoping to keep hold of some territory, you would imagine. You would imagine Ukraine will be hoping to draw as many Russian forces as possible. They have sustained losses. There is going to be heavy fighting ahead.

And if the front lines were to collapse inside Ukrainian territory, then that would obviously be catastrophic for Kiev. And, James, you mentioned the fact that this might be a way of just trying to draw Russian forces away from some of the front lines in Ukraine, where they're advancing. Presumably, the Russian forces will reallocate resources where they need to and perhaps then push back the Ukrainians.

So what's the long-term goal, do you think? This one isn't clear, and I think this is an ambiguity, which is deliberate on the part of Ukraine. At the moment, Russia is redeploying regular troops who are struggling, I think, in the short term to contain these sort of more elite Ukrainian units that are going in, which suggests how important Kiev sees this operation. But let's look at a scenario.

Say the Russians do contain the attack. They're already digging defensive lines deep into the Kursk region. We know that a static battlefield suits Russia. So if that were to happen, and if Ukraine was to sustain heavy losses, then it may well have been a distraction, but nothing more. What Ukraine will be desperate for this to be is something which really finally overstretches Russian troops and enables it to change the dynamic in any way.

But clearly, if we reflect on the week that's been, President Zelensky felt something had to happen. He felt that there had to be some kind of counter-offensive. What was happening just was not working. And it was putting the very future of his country and future Western help at risk. So this is, to be frank, a rolling of the dice. But, you know, one military expert in Ukraine said last week, he repeated his argument, this year will require extraordinary thinking to change the dynamic. And that clearly is what has happened.

James Waterhouse. So Ukrainian troops have been pouring into Russia. Evacuations are taking place and Moscow is sending in army reinforcements. Despite this Ukrainian incursion, there haven't been any major protests against President Putin. But after a succession of setbacks, could this change minds in Russia? We put that question to our Russia editor, Steve Rosenberg. It's a question we've been asked so many times over the last two and a half years, right? We were asked it after Russia retreated from Kharkiv region in 2022. We were asked it after Putin was on the back foot and forced to declare partial mobilization. We were asked it last year, right? After the Wagner mutiny, when you had the Wagner mercenaries marching on Moscow.

Putin survived all of that. And the likelihood is he's going to get through this too. And what helps him this time is that, in a way, the Ukrainian offensive plays into his longstanding narrative. Look, everyone, Russia's under attack. Russia's a besieged fortress. When in reality, of course, it was Russia that invaded Ukraine. For the moment, the people in the border town of Sudia, who recorded a video message to Putin last week, they weren't criticizing Putin directly. They were asking him for help. But I think the longer this goes on, the longer you have Ukrainian forces on Russian territory,

the more pressure there's going to be on the Russian leadership. And I wonder whether at some point we're going to see Russians joining the dots and thinking, you know, just a moment, this special military operation in Ukraine, we were told it was supposed to make Russia and Russians safer. But what have we got instead? We've got more NATO on Russia's borders, Finland and Sweden having joined. We've got now Ukrainian troops seizing Russian territory. There are almost daily drone attacks on so many Russian cities. Will people start to join the dots and think this is

because of the decision of one man two and a half years ago to launch the full-scale invasion of Ukraine? Steve Rosenberg. And as we record this podcast, President Putin has said Ukraine's incursion is aimed at trying to improve its future negotiating position. Speaking at a Russian Security Council meeting, he said Russia will respond to the attack and that the Russian army must dislodge Ukrainians from the border region.

Greece's most severe wildfire this year is approaching the northern outskirts of the capital Athens, fanned by the wind, making it difficult to breathe and darkening the sky. As of now, it's already spread to the wooded Mount Penteli area near the city, burning homes and properties. Emergency services are sending evacuation orders to residents, but some people are refusing to leave their homes. Theodor Gianneros is from the National Observatory of Athens. He says he's not surprised at how quickly the fires have spread. Greece is experiencing long-term drought.

Even during the past winter, we didn't get any significant amounts of rainfall and snowfall, and this has contributed to both increasing the availability of dead fuels and now having fuels that are extremely dry and can support the rapid spread of the fire and even the development of extreme fire behaviour. These people witness the full force of the fires. The front of the fire is really huge and it is uncontrollable right now. We don't know if and when the fire will end. All of the area that is burning here,

it was olive trees, it was an agricultural area and all of these are burned, all of them destroyed. Our reporter Charles Haviland is following events. Marathon is a very well-known name, a very historic town, the site of the Battle of Marathon, 490 BC. The Athenians beat the Persians, and then, of course, it gave its name to the race from Marathon to Athens, about 25 miles away, 40 kilometres. It is one of the worst affected places at the moment. As you heard, the mayor is speaking of a biblical-style tragedy,

saying, our whole town is engulfed in flames and going through very difficult times. Now, it's not the only place. Apparently about 40 flare-ups of this northeasterly fire, the fire that has started northeast of Athens and is creeping ever southwestwards. It's made more difficult by the fact that the wind is so strong. That seems to be more of a problem than the actual temperature because it is causing the flames to change direction very unpredictably. I was reading earlier on, a mayor of another town was saying, look, we're under control here, but these other fires are popping up so quickly.

It's really difficult for the authorities and the firefighters. Yeah, some of the places that were badly, worst affected on Sunday, for instance, a place called Varvaras, where that farmer that you heard from talking about his olive trees, that seems to be slightly less bad now. It seems to be creeping in a south-easterly direction. We're talking about a large portion of this East Attica province being at risk, which is the area entirely to the east of Athens,

forming the point of Athens, forming the point of a peninsula. And the main ways in which this is being tackled are through evacuations. And if you look at social media, you look at Twitter, the Greek emergency services keep telling people of different communities, evacuate here or evacuate there. So the marathon people have gone to the coast. But, of course, the situation can change because nowhere seems to be out of danger.

Charles Havelet. To France now, where the Paris Olympics have come to a close after what many people consider to be a very successful Games. President Emmanuel Macron has spoken to volunteers and organisers. You did it. You turned the Games into a moment of incredible achievement, a true and extraordinary moment, which captured the imaginations of the whole country, indeed the whole world, turning this event into a huge popular success.

I asked our Paris correspondent, Andrew Harding, whether President Macron's excitement about the Games is shared by the people of France. It is, I think, overwhelmingly. Macron touched on the doubters, the many doubters who thought that France wasn't ready, that it was too ambitious in its plans for these Games, and just the general sort of French shrug of scepticism

that's such a common feature of life here. He said, we proved the doubters wrong that this was a triumph of the games. And I think, you know, I speak to a lot of French people who say, you know, who've gone on holiday during the games, who fled Paris, as they often do in the summer, and are now going, oh, I wish we'd stayed. It was amazing. Will Mr. Macron be able to bathe in the reflected glory of all this? Will he get a bounce with the public, do you think? He'll get a little bounce. It certainly won't hurt him. First of all, there's a break for a couple of weeks, then there's the Paralympics, and then I think politics will resume in earnest. And I suspect that very quickly, people will

remember the political crisis that this country was locked in in July with a deeply divided parliament and no real government and a sense of frustration that really this is all President Macron's fault. He's got very low popularity ratings and there are some very quick difficult decisions that need to be taken and some compromises that need to be found in Parliament, which at the moment, it's hard to see exactly how those take place. So those are the politics in short term, pretty tricky situation. What about the longer lasting legacy, if you like, of these games for France? So I think France has shown that the games can be done in a different way. Things like

the fact that the River Seine is now clean. It costs a lot, but it is clean. It's swimmable. And it looks like that's going to be a long-term thing. That's the first time in a century, you know, we had the triathletes swimming in there in the past couple of weeks. So there are some concrete benefits. But I think the danger, of course, is that we always get swept up in the excitement and the glory and the drama. And the reality is often a little bit underwhelming. But at least this time, there are very few of those white elephant kind of stadia that were built that then sit empty. And that's often a problem with the World Cup and with the Olympics. That's not going to be an issue here. Andrew Harding in Paris.

The leader of a Kenyan cult is on trial for manslaughter over the deaths of more than 400 of his followers. Paul Ntenge, McKenzie and dozens of other suspects are also facing charges of terrorism, murder, kidnapping and child torture linked to the discovery of a mass grave in a forest. They've denied the charges. Our Africa regional editor, Will Ross, reports. Paul Nthenge McKenzie was brought to a magistrate's court in Mombasa, along with around 90 men and women who were also on trial for manslaughter.

The self-proclaimed pastor is alleged to have incited his followers and their children to starve to death. Former members of the cult have described how they were given instructions to begin fasting so that they could get to heaven. The prosecutor says 400 witnesses have been prepared. Some will present their testimonies in private this week. The horror of what took place in Shakahola Forest

led many Kenyans to question why the police failed to intervene when there were clear warnings about the behaviour of the cult leader. Will Ross. Still to come on the podcast. The Italian media are very exercised indeed about rumours that Madonna is hiring the ancient ruins of Pompeii for her upcoming birthday celebrations. If you're hearing this, you're probably already listening to BBC's award-winning news podcasts. But did you know that you can listen to them without ads? Get current affairs podcasts like Thank you. membership. Spend less time on ads and more time with BBC podcasts. The anxious wait goes on. After the killing of the Hamas leader Ismail Haneir in Iran last month,

will Tehran attack Israel? Well, there are concerted diplomatic efforts to reduce that possibility. Washington has added some military muscle as a deterrent. The US Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin has ordered the rapid deployment of a submarine and aircraft carrier to the Middle East. I got the latest from our chief international correspondent, Lise Doucette. Two weeks, not just since Haniyeh's assassination in Tehran, but also the assassination of a senior Hezbollah commander in the southern suburbs of Beirut. And in the immediate aftermath of those back-to-back killings,

as you say, nearly two weeks ago, both Hezbollah and Tehran vowed revenge. The Supreme Leader of Iran said it would be Tehran's duty. But I have to say that over the past nearly two weeks, we've had the reports have gone back and forth. First of all, we were told we were expecting a very sharp, a very quick reaction from Iran. Then we were told the U.S. was putting pressure on Iran to wait

and perhaps that there would be a ceasefire deal and that would calm Iran. That would be a good reason not to retaliate and provoke a possible escalatory spiral in the region. Now the Israeli media are saying that the Israelis are braced for a possible retaliation in the days to come. We simply don't know. Lise, meanwhile, the underlying issue is the Gaza conflict to a certain extent. And in a joint statement, the leaders of France, Germany and UK said that they want the negotiations to resume on that ceasefire. To what extent could that tension with Iran make a ceasefire in Gaza more likely, do you think? There's been these wars within wars ever since the October

7th rampage, murderous rampage by Hamas fighters across southern Israel. They are very much linked, but in some ways they're on their own spirals. As I mentioned, there is a sense in which the United States through intermediaries, Arab leaders have been urging Iran not to soak the fires that are burning in the Middle East. Wait and see what happens with this newest effort to try to get a ceasefire agreed. We're being told that a deal is on the table, that there is a framework. And when they meet on Thursday, it's another effort to close the gaps. The Israeli prime minister says he will be sending a team. Hamas has not been so clear in its response. There's not a great expectation that the deal can be done,

but the United States is saying they are closer than ever. And that a deal, a ceasefire, which ends the war, brings the hostages home, is the best way to quell the tensions everywhere else in the region. Liz Doucette. President Maduro of Venezuela is accused of unleashing a campaign of terror following last month's election. Mr Maduro and his supporters claim to have won the presidential election, but the opposition says it has overwhelming evidence that its candidate won by a huge margin.

More than 1,300 people have been arrested and dozens of people are reported to have been killed in a government clampdown. In a video posted on X, the opposition leader, Maria Corina Machado, who's in hiding, urged Venezuelans to take part in protests next weekend. This Saturday, August 17th, we're going to take to the streets of Venezuela and of the world, wherever there is a Venezuelan. We will be there together. Have confidence. This time it's different because we're different. Let's shout together for the world to support our victory and recognise truth and popular sovereignty.

Well, it's now being reported by the Wall Street Journal that diplomatic efforts are underway in Washington to try to persuade Mr Maduro to relinquish power, as we heard from our Latin America regional editor, Leonardo Rocha. Well, that's something that's been talked about and now they seem to have information that a very senior member of the Venezuelan government, Jorge Rodriguez, he's very close to President Maduro,

that he's, in theory, been negotiating with the US. And what the US is offering is to lift the sanctions, lift the charges that they have against President Maduro and many of the government officials, drug trafficking charges, in exchange for a peaceful transition before his term ends in January. I think also what the article says is they're offering sort of total amnesty, that they're promising that they won't go after him for human rights violations or for other charges when and if he

leaves power. With that, they would negotiate with the opposition because, of course, the opposition say that they have evidence that they won the election. They just lost because of fraud. And Brazil and other left-leaning Latin American countries are also saying that they don't recognize the result. And that's quite important. And this article also says that the US is putting pressure on Brazil, Colombia and Mexico because they have left wing presidents to put more pressure on President Maduro. What we have here is a dangerous situation because we have more than 1,300 people have been arrested since the elections two weeks ago. Many people have been killed. And you have a situation where the opposition is claiming victory.

President Maduro's victory hasn't been recognized by many countries. You had Cuba, Iran, Russia, and a few others. And really, there's a possibility of change here. So what Brazil has told President Maduro, according to the Brazilian media, reliable sources, is that unless he published a breakdown, a detailed breakdown of the vote, they won't recognise him as the winner of the election. That's quite important. That's a big pressure on President Maduro. Leonardo Rocha speaking to Jackie Leonard. The war in Sudan is driving hundreds of thousands of people to flee to eastern Chad.

But life in the refugee camps is very tough. There's not enough food often and shelter or medical help is hard to find. The BBC's Paul Ndji and producer Michel Mbondo visited the Farchana camp, which hosts more than 40,000 people not far from the border with Sudan. They spoke to refugees who are planning to move on, not back home, but to Europe using the perilous route through the Sahara Desert, where many people have been abducted or killed in recent years. In Chad's eastern settlement of Fashana lies a rocky and vastly barren sanctuary for Sudanese refugees who have fled two separate eras of war.

That's where we meet Mariam Hussein and her 20-year-old son Ahmed, who occupy a small tarpaulin hut fenced with straw. Each passing day in the camp, Mariam lives with the trauma of not knowing the whereabouts of her eldest son, Mohamed. He risked his life seven years ago, trekking to Europe through the Sahara Desert, only to end up being kidnapped twice in Libya. She shows me a picture of Mohamed on her phone. He's standing on a lush surface, wearing a blue shirt over a pair of black trousers. Tears pour from her eyes as she tells me about the last conversation she had with him.

He said it was important to cross because without crossing, we can't do anything. That's the last thing he said to me. I feel so bad about my son's situation when I didn't hear any news from him. I couldn't eat or drink anything. Mariam's nightmare isn't over yet. Her younger son Ahmed now plans to follow in his brother's footsteps by making a similar trek to Europe via the perilous Sahara Desert. But why does he want to leave this camp so badly? When we were in Sudan, I attended university where I could dream about my future.

But because of the war, I lost everything. And when we came here, there was no education for me, no opportunity to bring income to my mom and myself. Our living conditions are poor, so I decided to leave. The International Organization for Migration says 161 illegal migrants died while crossing the dangerous Sahara Desert in 2023 alone. But this has still not discouraged refugees like 28-year-old Siddique, who made three unsuccessful attempts at entering Europe illegally.

He is prepared to try again. The plan is on course and we won't stop because we can't continue living this way and there is no other option. Between 2017 and 2019, the International Organization for Migration facilitated the relocation of close to 2,000 refugees from Chad to France. Underneath a tree in the camp, the UNHCR's Associate Reporting Officer in Fashana, Ying Hu, sensitizes the refugees on alternative legal pathways

and shares possible opportunities with them. Here we have, for instance, a resettlement program. Also we have other regular programs such as humanitarian visa, family reunification. We also have scholarship program for people to continue their education, their university education abroad. But given the limited resources, she says priority is currently on life-saving assistance for the more than 500,000 Sudanese refugees living in Chad. This leaves Ahmed and his friends with little hope,

making their decision to leave Fashana only a matter of when, not if. That was Paul and Ji reporting. The Geneva Conventions turn 75 today. The conventions, which have been ratified by 196 countries, have more support than any other international treaty. But they are under immense pressure because of current conflicts. They specify that warring parties should treat prisoners of war humanely and allow visits from the International Committee of the Red Cross.

The ICRC, the guardian of the conventions, is asking all countries to recommit to their principles. Our Geneva correspondent Imogen Fowkes talked to the ICRC's president, Mirjana Spoljaric, and asked her first if there was anything to celebrate. We have little reason to celebrate, given the world around us and the immense suffering that we see in so many contexts, starting with Gaza, but evidently also in Ukraine, in Russia,

in Sudan, in Myanmar. No, it's not a reason to celebrate. Some people question, given that warfare has changed so much since the 1940s, whether these conventions are even relevant anymore. Look, the Geneva Conventions have been ratified by all states in the world, and all states in the world still agree to this consensus and have not left the conventions. And this, for for us is important. It's probably one of the most universal agreements you have still today

and one that remains uncontested. Now, that doesn't mean that the law is not broken and that doesn't mean that wars are not bloody. In today's times, it's even more important to uphold this consensus because there's more suffering. You said, obviously, that not every country always respects the conventions. Actually, your statement goes somewhat further and says if we carry on like this, we risk losing this international body of law altogether.

No, the international body of law remains. But what we lose is faith in its implementation. Every time the law is interpreted in a way to accept human suffering and to accept the destruction of civilian infrastructure as a necessary means to achieve military operations, IHL is weakened. And we have to reverse that trend. We have to put the protection of civilians up front. And this is why I'm using these 75 years to remind states that they have to absolutely, given what's happening in the world today, declare the implementation of the Geneva Conventions their foreign policy and security priority. Can you do your job effectively, though, given the current climate?

Our job is immensely difficult, immensely complex and immensely dangerous. We have had colleagues losing their lives in the past months, but we do succeed in reuniting families every day. We do succeed in informing families about the fate of their relatives. We do succeed in visiting detainees anywhere. I want everyone involved in armed conflict to uphold the respect for international humanitarian law, to protect humanity and to never lose the possibility to come back to the negotiation table. That was the president of the International Committee of the Red Cross, Mirjana Spoljaric, speaking to Imogen Folks. Rumours abound in the Italian media about the upcoming birthday party of the pop singer Madonna, that it is in fact going to be held in the ruins of Pompeii, a suggestion that has provoked more than a few tremors of anger. Rachel Wright has more. It's on pretty much every Italian news site.

The Queen of Pop has arrived in Liguria on the French-Italian border and is staying with her friends Domenico Dolce and Stefano Gabbana, the famous Italian designers. That's what we know so far, but what the papers are all agog about is the possibility that the singer has booked the ancient ruins of Pompeii to celebrate her 66th birthday on August the 16th. More specifically, the Teatro Grande degli Scavi di Pompeii, the horseshoe-shaped Roman theatre at the centre of the once bustling city that was buried under four to six meters of volcanic ash and pumice in the eruption of Mount Suvius in 79 AD. The mayor of Pompeii has been quoted in La

Republica newspapers saying he's been contacted about the event and is happy to welcome the singer to the site, which has been reportedly booked by an American entertainment company for $30,000. Madonna's Facebook fan page has announced it's preparing for her arrival, and 500 guests are expected to attend, possibly including her fellow American singer Katy Perry and her film star partner Orlando Bloom. Louise Veronica Ciccone is American-born, but her paternal grandparents came from Abruzzo in Italy. She's previously thrown birthday parties in the country, but this prospective party is the first to be held in such an iconic location. However, not everyone is happy about Miss Ciccone's rumoured plans.

Michel Campisi, General Secretary of the Italia Nostra Heritage Association, told the London Times, Why does Madonna need to go to Pompeii? Is there not a more beautiful beach she could use? And for 30,000 euros, it's absurd. It's like giving Pompeii away. He said Pompeii, which attracted four million visitors last year, did not need the publicity of Madonna's party and accused the government of Giorgio Maloney of aggressively cashing in on culture. In April, the Culture Ministry published new guidelines on how heritage sites should calculate their rental value on the basis of a site's size and the importance of its

monuments. Meanwhile, Madonna has not publicly commented on her plans. She is, after all, on holiday. And that's all from us for now, but there will be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcast at bbc.co.uk. You can also find us on X at Global News Pod. This edition was produced by Alice Adderley and was mixed by Jack Wilford. The editor is Karen Martin.

I'm Nick Miles, and until next time, goodbye. If you're hearing this, you're probably already listening to BBC's award-winning news podcasts. But did you know that you can listen to them without ads? Get current affairs podcasts like Global News, AmeriCast and The Global Story, plus other great BBC podcasts from history to comedy to true crime, all ad-free. Simply subscribe to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts or listen to Amazon Music with a Prime membership. Spend less time on ads and more time with BBC Podcasts.