Global News Podcast - Talks between Israel and Hamas continue in Qatar

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

Hopes remain high that a ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas is very close. Also: South Korean investigators again try to arrest President Yoon Suk Yeol; and why Starbucks says you can’t stay unless you pay.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Jonny Diamond from the Global Story podcast. After 15 months of war, a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas. The conflict has cost tens of thousands of lives and left two million people displaced from their homes. What does the ceasefire deal say and crucially can it hold? That's on the Global Story, wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Andrew Peach and in the early hours of Tuesday 15 January these are our main stories. Hopes remain high that a ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas is very close. Donald Trump's nominee for defence secretary appears before a Senate committee. President Biden is to remove Cuba from a list of countries the US considers state sponsors of terrorism. Also in this podcast, South Korean investigators clash with supporters of President Yoon Sung Yeol as they try to

arrest him over his failed declaration of martial law. And why Starbucks in the US will no longer allow you to go into their coffee shops without buying anything. I think this is a pretty common policy for retailers that you're supposed to buy something and these cafes are for people who are patrons, not necessarily just hanging out with no purpose, I guess. Indirect talks between Israel and Hamas have been continuing in Qatar, with all parties saying a deal for a ceasefire and the release of hostages in Gaza is closer than ever. Our correspondent Jonah Fisher is in Jerusalem.

From what we understand, the major issues surrounding this agreement have largely been resolved, but it's now the details which are being discussed. An Israeli spokesman this morning talked of hundreds of little details which have to be sorted out, the sort of technical details that suggest that we have a deal in the offing. I think it should be said at this point that until everything is agreed, nothing is agreed, so this could still go wrong, but certainly the mood is that this is the closest we've got to a ceasefire agreement of this nature since the war started 15 months ago. It'll be enormously difficult for the Israeli government, having got to this point, if it falls

apart, difficult with the Israeli public and particularly with the hostage families. There's a lot riding on this and there are voices within Prime Minister Netanyahu's Cabinet who don't want this to happen. They've been very clear in the last couple of days, to right-wing, ultra-nationalist members of the cabinet, and that they think it's in one case a catastrophe, another one talking about it being a surrender to Hamas. They would rather that the military effort continue in Gaza for a total victory. But I think the general mood is this is a country that feels like the war in Gaza has run its course, has probably gone on much too long, and that the time is ready for some sort of agreement to bring hostages home.

I think, you know, it should be pointed out that even this agreement which is being discussed, it doesn't bring all of the remaining hostages home. They're talking about 33 hostages being part of the initial ceasefire, and we're not even sure that all of those 33 are alive. So yes, this is the start, sort of a temporary ceasefire that's being talked about, the release of all the hostages, the permanent ceasefire, discussions about what the status of a government might be in Gaza in the future. That's all been kicked down the road.

If we get a first agreement then there will have to be further talks to try and resolve those even more difficult issues. Jonah Fisher with me from Jerusalem. Those most anxious for a deal are the hundreds of thousands of people living in Gaza, many still under daily bombardment, as well as the families of the Israeli hostages still being held there. The BBC has been in touch with several of them since the war began in October 2023 and asked them to record their thoughts at this time. From Gaza we heard from 17-year-old Sanabel,

who's living with her family in their house in Gaza City, which has been partially destroyed. And first Khalid, who's currently in Jabalia in the north of the Gaza Strip. All the people in Gaza Strip right now following the conference of the Qatar foreign affairs waiting the declaration hope the ceasefire will happen soon because they are suffering more and more. The people at the south of Gaza, they make festival and policing since one week because they think the ceasefire will be soon. Can't believe that I'm still alive.

Witness this moment of a ceasefire in my city. I've been waiting for this with hated breath. Finally, first month of this year, you can even put your head on your pillow without worrying about everything in your life. You're worrying about your family and your friends and stop overthinking about these details because you are safe now. And from Israel, here are two of the relatives of hostages. My name is Sharon Lifschitz. I am the daughter of Jochebed Tenoded Lipschitz, both were taken hostage from Kibbutz Niroz on the 7th of October. My mom returned after 17 days.

My father is still held hostage for 465 days. My father, 84, is somewhere in Chanyounes, about two miles from our home. I can feel him there. I don't know if he's dead or alive. I don't know if he's been looked after. I don't know if he has received a hug in 465 days. I know we're desperate to have him back. I'm Yael Calderon, Ofer Calderon's cousin who has been held in the El Tunnels in Gaza.

We are hoping that the deal will be closed soon and we will reach the moment that we are hugging Ofer. His four children will hug him, we will take care of him, and we want this deal to include all the hostages, all the 98 hostages. Just come home, please. The latest on those ceasefire talks at bbc.com slash news. Donald Trump's pick for the US defence secretary role, the former Fox News presenter Pete Hexseth has appeared at a Senate confirmation hearing which will decide whether he's suitable for the job. Mr Hegseth, who's served in Iraq and Afghanistan, has had to defend his perceived lack of expertise and questions over his views on diversity.

Our North America editor, Sarah Smith, was watching. USA, USA, USA. Pete Hegseth was both a surprising and a controversial choice to be Donald Trump's defense secretary. There are so many controversies surrounding him. Many of those allegations were laid out by the leading Democrat on the Armed Services Committee, Jack Reid. A variety of sources, including your own writings, implicate you with disregarding the laws of war, financial mismanagement, racist and sexist remarks about men and women in uniform,

alcohol abuse, sexual assault, sexual harassment and other troubling issues. Mr. Hegseth blamed the left-wing media for stories about him he says are not true, saying he's concentrating on the job that he hopes is ahead of him. When President Trump chose me for this position, the primary charge he gave me was to bring the warrior culture back to the Department of Defence. He, like me, once said, Pentagon, laser-focused on lethality, meritocracy, war fighting, accountability and readiness. The hearing was interrupted several times by protesters angry about the war in Gaza. Mr Hegseth has said before that women should not serve in combat roles and has claimed

that mums should not be in the military. That prompted criticism from the Democratic Senator Kirsten Gillibrand. We have hundreds, hundreds of women who are currently in the infantry, lethal members of our military serving in the infantry, but you degrade them. You say we don't want women in the military, especially in combat. What a terrible statement. When Pete Hegseth was first named as Donald Trump's choice to head the Pentagon, it seemed unlikely he would be approved by the Senate.

But a concerted campaign of political pressure on Republicans by Mr Trump's allies means that despite all the controversies around him, he may well end up in charge of the whole of the American military. President Biden says the US will remove its designation of Cuba from a list of countries considered state sponsors of terrorism. Let's get the story from our Latin America correspondent Ione Wells. The immediate hope is that this move will lead to the release of some of the protesters who were detained after the brutal crackdown on huge anti-government protests in Cuba over the nation's economic decline. But this decision is also significant because it can be seen as a step towards normalising relations between Cuba and the US, which could pave the way for dialogue on other

contentious issues. It could also help Cuba's dire economic situation, as some major banks and foreign investors have struggled to operate there legally. Cuba was last removed from the list under President Obama, but days before Donald Trump left office in 2021, his government placed Cuba back on it. It's unclear whether Mr Trump will reverse this latest decision when he returns to office. The President-elect's nomination as the next US Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, It's unclear whether Mr Trump will reverse this latest decision when he returns to office. The president-elect's nomination as the next US Secretary of State Marco Rubio has long advocated for sanctions on Cuba. His family left the country in the 1950s before the communist revolution that put Fidel Castro

in power. Each year, thousands of sub-Saharan Africans try to get to Europe via North Africa. In response, the European Union has agreed deals with several North African nations to clamp down on irregular migration, what some people call illegal migration. Human rights groups say the treatment of migrants can be brutal, allegations the authorities deny. But some African migrants say they have no choice but to return home. Alex Last has been to the Gambia in West Africa, where more than 3,000 people have come back in the last year.

In a family compound on the Sandy Street near the Gambian capital, Banjul, 20-year-old Alaji Fai is coming to terms with the end of his dream. He had wanted to reach Europe. He'd risked his life to make the journey. But now he's ended up back where he started. We don't want to come back.

That's not our aim. Our aim is to enter Europe. We want to help families. Some people might be even saying that this is a suicide mission. Poverty can make you do anything. This is the only way that I can help my family. After two years away with help from the UN, he's just returned from Tunisia. It was from there that he had hoped to cross the Mediterranean.

Instead, he endured years of hardship that would have broken most. We went two times in a sea, the same boat, but we couldn't succeed. The police, the navy intercepted you? Yeah, they just took our engine away. They took the engine and left us. They left you just adrift in the sea? Just like that. But we even showed that to them,

we have a pregnant woman, please can you help us to get out? They said no, so we try our best to get out from the water. Some people went inside the water to push the boat. With the swimming, you will be swimming, and that's how we managed to get out from the sea. It was very difficult for us. More than five hours, six hours we were inside the sea.

Even on land in North Africa, says Alaji, African migrants are not safe, preyed upon by traffickers, criminal gangs and security forces forced to live out of town in makeshift shelters at risk of police raids, detention, abuse and deportation. Sometimes they even came throwing tear gases. Born in our house, there was a time when police, their cultures, even wanted to throw us into the desert. But Alhamdulillah, I escaped. They wanted to drive you to the desert and leave you? Yeah. They will be saying, Tunisia is not for black people.

Go back to where you come from. That's how they treat us. Many people went there, they don't come back. A lot of people lost their life, but alhamdulillah I'm still alive. Tunisia denies it mistreats migrants. The EU says it wouldn't support human rights abuses. But it has done deals with North African nations, including Tunisia, to curb irregular migration.

In the end, Al-Aji felt he had no choice but to come home. But it is hard for many returnees. The Gambia's population is mostly young. Jobs are scarce. Incomes are very low. Many leave in the hope of earning money for their families and have borrowed from family and friends to pay for the journey. So to come back empty-handed can be devastating.

I feel embarrassment because I see myself like I'm a failure because my family lose a lot of money on me to go there and succeed. Tejan and his colleague Thombong are two of the leaders of Youth Against Irregular Migration, a group formed by returnees to warn others of the risks of taking the unofficial route to Europe. But they also help counsel each other for many carry mental scars from all they've endured. First thing that we need as reintegration is our mental state because we've been traumatized and still now some are living with that trauma.

We give psychosocial support to one another, we talk to one another, at least feel like you are not alone in the stress. For Eladji, who's just returned, there's certainly a lot to deal with. For the first time in two years he's going to see his mum. She wraps him in her arms and won't let go. He starts crying too. What's made me cry is that this was not my aim. This was not my aim. I don't want to go and come back with emptyouts. I'm very sad. You can hear the full story of the Gambieres returning migrants on Assignment, the documentary

podcast from the BBC World Service. And still to come. On our fire alone we've got over 5,000 personnel fighting this fire, 500 engines, 115 camp crews, tons of dozers, lots of water tenders and plenty of aerial support. Firefighters in LA prepare for the worst as forecasters warn of more high winds. I'm Jonny Diamond from the Global Story podcast. After 15 months of war, a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas. The conflict has cost tens of thousands of lives and left 2 million people

displaced from their homes. What does the ceasefire deal say and crucially can it hold? That's on the Global Story, wherever you get your BBC podcasts. As we record this podcast, investigators in South Korea are trying once more to arrest the country's suspended president, Yoon Sung Yeol. He's facing charges of insurrection and abuse of power after imposing martial law for a short period in December. The president's security team thwarted an attempt by police to arrest him on the 3rd of January. I've been talking to our reporter

in Seoul, Rachel Lee. Now it's past 7am local time and the corruption investigation officers backed by the police have reportedly entered into the presidential residence. The corruption investigation officers backed by the police have reportedly entered into the presidential residence. The corruption investigation officers and the presidential security service faced off in front of the main gate for about an hour and 20 minutes. However, around 5.45 a.m., police units began using force to push through the barricades and attempted to enter the residence. Now Now police are reportedly attempting to enter the compound through a nearby Maebong mountain hiking trail.

And does it look at this point as though they will be able in the end to execute the arrest warrant this time? Because last time they had to give up. That's true. It's not sure how long this execution is going to take or whether it's actually going to success in the end. But around 10,000 officers were deployed to execute the arrest warrant, which is around eight times more than the first attempt where the police and the CIO were retrieved after six hours of confrontation with the presidential service.

And additional vehicles were also deployed by the PSS to surround the compound to stop the arrest. And just give me a bit of context here. This is a very politically turbulent time in South Korea, and in the end we went through three presidents in two weeks. What started it all off? What's the arrest warrant for? Right, it all started with December 3rd martial law declaration by the president, Yun Sung-yeol. And he then took back the martial law declaration about six hours later. And the parliament voted to impeach him. And I mean, the impeachment bill passed, but now it's up to a constitutional court whether to uphold the impeachment of the suspended president, Yun Sung-yeol.

And they got 180 days. So the first hearing happened on the 14th, which is yesterday, local time, but the suspended leader did not attend the hearing. Now, this is just delaying the procedure. If the Constitutional Court upholds the impeachment, South Korea will have to have the presidential election within 60 days. Court upholds the impeachment, South Korea will have to have the presidential election within 60 days. Rachel Lee with me from Seoul. More high winds are threatening to rekindle some of the fires that have been devastating

the hills and suburbs of Los Angeles. The two biggest ones, the Palisades and the Eton fires, still pose a big threat, as I've been hearing from our senior North America correspondent, Gary O'Donoghue, in Los Angeles. You have to remember that these fires, the two main fires, are still burning and that while the fire department has managed to contain a little bit more of each of one, most of those perimeters aren't contained. Now, fortunately, we've now learned that the death toll has not risen from that 24. They've been searching through the remains of people's houses and they haven't happily

found any more dead people at this stage, but that could easily change. I'm going to bring in now Sheila Kelleher-Burko, who's a captain at the LA Fire Department. Sheila, we were expecting bigger winds this morning, starting to gust a little bit, but may get worse later on. Yes, there's definitely potential for 45 mile an hour upwards gusts, so we are prepared for that. We have strike teams deployed out throughout Los Angeles County because this is an impacted area also though north of a Santa Clarita Valley and a few other areas that haven't started to burn yet. We're very concerned about

those areas as well. And the key thing about the winds getting up is that then you can't fly with the water and the fire retardant. Once you get over about 45 miles per hour winds it gets very tricky and it's a decision has to be made because if they're sustained gusts they can't get up there and fly. But for this fire I know that our air operations has worked incredibly hard striping those hills behind the flame front in order to pre-treat that in case that should happen. So a lot of fire retardant is down. Crews are in there doing an incredible job making great work on that burn line and everybody's in position and doing what they're supposed to be doing. I mean you've got thousands of people down there. Yeah on our fire alone we've got over 5,000 personnel fighting

this fire, 500 engines, 115 camp crews, tons of dozers, lots of water tenders and plenty of aerial support. I mean there's a lot of focus obviously on the people. We want to get back to what's left of their homes but it's just still too dangerous. At this point the repopulation effort, they're working hard to get people back up in there but it's going to take a bit for that very reason. These winds have got to stop for sure. We've got gas mains, we've got water powered downs. We also have like you said they're looking for the remains of loved ones so those are kind of active what they would call crime

scenes and they don't want anybody walking where they don't belong so they're working as hard as they can to get the people up there. There's a website out that lets you actually pinpoint your house to see what type of damage is done. Our damage assessment team has put out an incredible map for that so that's on recovery.lacounty.gov. Unbelievable work that they're doing. You mentioned its crime scene. There's also still a lot of people getting arrested for looting and for setting fires. Yeah we did have one person they couldn't hold him they didn't have enough evidence that he actually did set fires but there

are people that are being pulled over for curfew, breach, as well as looting. So they're just, it's like, come on, stay out of here. But the majority of people in Los Angeles and Southern California have come together and from all over the world. It's amazing the support people are sending through food, supplies, not only for us but for the victims. Captain, thanks so much. Later on today we're expecting those winds to get up again and that's really going to be a crucial moment for the people here at this control centre as they try and battle

the biggest of the two fires. Gary O'Donoghue in Los Angeles. The British Egyptian activist Alar Abdel Fattah is one of the most prominent political prisoners in Egypt, having spent the majority of the past decade in detention. He was most recently arrested in 2019 and convicted in 2021 for allegedly spreading false news. The Egyptian authorities have refused to release him despite the fact he's already served his five-year sentence. His mother, Laila Sweef, who lives in London, has been on hunger strike now for over 100 days. This week she began daily visits to Downing Street,

urging the UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer to intervene. And she's been talking to my colleague, Victoria Uanhunda. I saw her on the 8th. He seemed OK. I mean, visits in Cairo prisons are just 20 minutes. And our visit is always through a glass barrier with a phone. And you talk through a phone and everything gets recorded. You have to give him the news and the time and so on.

So you can't get into too many details. So he seemed okay. I think he was slightly reassured to see me still on my feet. He's obviously very worried about me. And he feels very helpless sitting there in prison. And from his point of view, nothing is happening at all. Because whatever we're doing out here and whatever the British government and the Egyptian government are doing, it's having no concrete impact on him.

So what is your message to Prime Minister Kirste Amma when you go to Downing Street today? Well, my message remains the same. I know, because I know the Egyptian system, that nothing will move and nothing will happen until Mr. Sisi gives the green light for it to happen. And I can't see anyone persuading Mr. Sisi to do this except Mr. Sarmar. So I hope he does it. I know from the government's releases that Mr. Sarmer has already written to Mr. Sisi

twice. If he hasn't yet got a positive response, then he should keep pushing and find a way to persuade Mr. Sisi to actually give him a positive response. Are you hopeful you remain hoping that those conversations between the Prime Minister and the President of Egypt will yield the results of seeing your son back home with you? I think so, actually. I'm sure both the British and the Egyptian government have a lot in common. They're allies.

They have different things that they need to do together. So I'm sure Mr. Stormer will find a way of persuading Mr. Sisi to actually release Alaa. I'm only worried about the timing. I mean, I hope this happens quickly so that I don't collapse and go into hospital and which will be very hard on my children but even if that happens well so be it. Now the global coffee chain Starbucks used to boast that anyone was welcome to sit in its North American stores even if they didn't buy anything. But not anymore. Starbucks has a new code of conduct. Heather Haddon is the restaurant's reporter of the Wall Street Journal. The new CEO, Brian Nicol, since he joined the company last

year, has said that he needs to work on the environment of Starbucks stores. He says they need to be inviting, have that coffee shop, you know, cafe environment again. And so he's doing little things to enhance that, like bring back condiment bars so people can doctor their own coffee with milk and Sharpies for people to write on their cups with. But then he's doing bigger things like tightening up a policy that Starbucks has had since 2018 that allowed anyone to use its cafes and its bathrooms. And so the company says we care about the public but we care about our customers and our employees and we have to make our cafe safe and welcoming environments for them and they hope this will be a way

to enhance that. Critics will say Starbucks doesn't want the wrong kind of people hanging out in its stores. Is there some truth in that? I think this is a pretty common policy for retailers that you're supposed to buy something to be in the store and these cafes are for people who are patrons, not necessarily just hanging out with no purpose, I guess. I think critics would say, you know, this is a reversal that Starbucks, after that incident in Philadelphia where two black men were arrested at one of their cafes. That was a real embarrassment for Starbucks and this policy was meant to address

that. You know, a lot has changed since they passed that. We've had the pandemic, we've had a lot of changes in society here in America and in some ways things have gotten more challenging for a retailer like Starbucks to just allow the public to use the stores as they wish. Is there a wider social issue in the US that there are fewer third spaces, libraries, heated public spaces available for people who are down on their luck just to hang out? I think that's absolutely true. You looked at the latest homeless count numbers that were released and we're at very large numbers of people who are just unhoused. They don't have a place to go and some of that is again just how society has been uprooted since the pandemic. So yeah, there does seem to be that there needs to be other places for these folks and Starbucks itself says that they do have community outreach programs and they do try to direct people who need more

resources to services and you know their cafes can't just be drop-in centers that there needs to be other resources for these folks. This starts in the US but what are the chances that the changes will be rolled out globally? Probably unlikely because from what I understand this 2018 policy of access to all was only in North America. Meanwhile the world's biggest coffee chain, that's what it is, is trying to tackle flagging sales at the moment. Is that right? Correct. Yeah. So that's also a big mandate for this new CEO is that they've had several quarters now of drops in sales and drops in traffic and transactions. And clearly he is

there to try to reverse that and that's going to take a lot of work. And this is one part of what he's doing to try to just make people want to go to Starbucks again and hang out and not just order their coffee, flee or just not go anymore. Heather Haddon of The Wall Street Journal with Paul Henley. And that's all from us for now. There'll be a new edition of Global News to download later. If you'd like to comment on this edition, Global Podcast at bbc.co.uk or you can find us on X where we are at global news pod This edition was produced by Judy Frankel and mixed by Peter wise. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Andrew peach Thanks for listening and until next time. Goodbye I'm Johnny Diamond from the Global Story Podcast. After 15 months of war, a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas. The conflict has cost tens of thousands of lives and left two million

people displaced from their homes. What does the ceasefire deal say and crucially can it hold? That's on the Global Story, wherever you get your BBC podcasts.