Global News Podcast - Trump confronts South African leader with claim of Afrikaners being 'persecuted'

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

US President Donald Trump confronted his South African counterpart Cyril Ramaphosa at the White House, claiming that white farmers were being "persecuted" in the country. Also: climbing Everest using Xenon gas.

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Search for amazing sports stories wherever you get your BBC podcasts. This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Nick Miles and in the early hours of Thursday, the 22nd of May, these are our main stories. In an extraordinary meeting at the White House, Donald Trump has confronted the South African president Cyril Ramaphosa with a video which he said supported his discredited claims of a white genocide in South Africa.

Benjamin Netanyahu has said that he believes only 20 of the remaining 58 Israeli hostages in Gaza are definitely alive. Police in Italy have carried out a nationwide operation against the Ndrengheta, considered to be the most powerful mafia clan. Also in this podcast… There are millions of malaria cases every year and nearly half a million deaths, most of them in young children. So it's a really serious issue in many parts of Africa. But could this deadly disease be curtailed by giving the offending mosquitoes anti-malaria drugs? anti-malaria drugs. We begin in Washington DC where what South Africa was

hoping would be an opportunity to reset relations with the US President Donald Trump has been anything but. This is a year in which President Trump has repeatedly suggested that South Africa's white Africana community is facing genocide. Well in front of the media in the most public of spaces, the Oval Office, Mr Trump doubled down on that unsubstantiated claim. We have many people that feel they're being persecuted and they're coming to the United States. So we take from many, many locations if we feel there's persecution or genocide going on.

And we had a lot of people. I must tell you, Mr. President, we have had a tremendous number of people, especially since they've seen this. Generally, they're white farmers and they're fleeing South Africa. And it's a very sad thing to see. President Trump then played video clips

and held up printouts of news articles articles which he said showed the extent of violence against white South Africans. That led to some tense exchanges between the two leaders. And you know the man that you saw, the men that you saw, the people that you saw that, well those are officials, those are people that were in office. They had one march, they had a dance in your parliament, whatever you may call it, legislature. And it was terrible. Yeah.

Let me clarify that because what you saw, the speeches that were being made, one, that is not government policy. We have a multi-party democracy in South Africa that allows people to express themselves, political parties to adhere to various policies, and in many cases, or in some cases, those policies do not go along with government policy. Our government policy is completely, completely against what he was saying,

even in the parliament. And they're a small minority party, which is allowed to exist in terms of our constitution. But you do allow them to take land. No, no, no, no. You do allow them to take land. Nobody can take land. And then when they take the land,

they kill the white farmer. And when they kill the white farmer, nothing happens to them. No Nobody can take land. And then when they take the land, they kill the white farmer. And when they kill the white farmer, nothing happens to them. No. There is quite — Nothing happens to them. There is criminality in our country. People who do get killed, unfortunately, through criminal activity, are not only white people.

The majority of them are black people. And we have now been utilizing — The farmers are black. The farmers are not black. We don't say that's good or bad, but the farmers are not black. And the people that are being killed in large numbers, and you saw all those grave sites, and those are people that, loved ones going, I guess on a Sunday morning they told me, to pay respect to their loved ones that were killed. Their heads chopped off. They died violently. Well despite the confrontation, President Ramaphosa said afterwards that he believed the meeting had been a great success

and that he had fulfilled his goals of re-engaging the US and discussing investment with Mr Trump. And later, away from the Oval Office, Mr Ramaphosa had this to say with regards to the claim of genocide in South Africa. He even said he thought President Trump himself didn't think there is genocide there. In the end I mean I do believe that that is there is doubt and disbelief in his head about all this. The issue of whether what he terms as genocide can be equated to the struggle. And of course it cannot because there is just no genocide in South Africa. I spoke earlier to our correspondent in Johannesburg, Pumza Bthilani, and to Nomiya Iqbal in Washington. I began by asking Nomiya for her assessment of the encounter in the White House. Well it all started off very friendly in the sense

that I think Sir Ramaphosa knew which buttons to push with Donald Trump. He presented him a nice golf book. He talked about trade deal and you know bringing in money into America and doing business. These are two things that Donald Trump loves personally and professionally. But I think there was no doubt that at some point, Donald Trump would start talking about what he believes is a white genocide going on in South Africa. Remember, there is nothing that substantiates that claim. And it was extraordinary in the sense that it was like the President Zelensky ambush, it was very jarring to see a foreign

leader trying to give facts about his own country to a president who prefers to push conspiracy theories. Unlike the President Zelensky meeting though, no one in Trump's cabinet actually got involved in this confrontation or ambush. But I think when the meeting was over, the South African delegation was probably pretty relieved. And Pumza Thilani in Johannesburg, it was a calm and measured response from Mr Ramaphosa. After a lot of criticism from President Trump, how did he try to counter what Mr Trump had said about this alleged genocide against white Afrikaners? Well, President Siriruma, of course, going into the meeting, seems to have prepared to

play the safest hand, which is what he knows, to be on a charm offensive, to speak only to facts and to not get baited when the opportunity presents itself. This is similar to the style that he uses when dealing with opposition political parties here who can get quite close to the bone in their criticism and trying to stoke panic around certain issues, including land, including how crime is handled. So it seems very much that he tried to play that game

in the White House, but what we saw as well in that response is when he was asked specifically around the issue about white farmers and whether a number of farmers were comfortable staying in South Africa, that he threw that question to his agriculture minister who was part of the country's opposition party and an Afrikaner national himself, and let him kind of present that case in an attempt to show

that not only are different racial groups working together in South Africa but subtly try to continue to dispel this narrative that there is a white genocide and that white farmers are trying to leave South Africa en masse. And Nomiya why has this issue of alleged violence against the Afrikaner community in South Africa become such a central theme for President Trump? He was talking about this in his first term and looking at the possibility of giving refugee status to Afrikaners but it's only now that we're seeing that he's really going for it. I don't think it's a coincidence that his close friend and close ally, Elon Musk,

was in the Oval Office. Elon Musk is born in South Africa. He has pushed these unsubstantiated claims of a white genocide. And Donald Trump, I think, will have been massively influenced by him. But I think something that's really important to state here from the US side is that the real controversy is why is it that Donald Trump thinks Afrikaners should be given asylum but not others? If for the US being persecuted is the benchmark, which as we saw in the Oval Office, that seems to be the case, why isn't it applied to all affected groups? Donald Trump has suspended the refugee resettlement program for everybody, apart from Afrikaners. You know, I spoke to an Afrikaner who came to the US as a refugee last week, so it's almost less about them and more about why the Trump

administration is doing this. And briefly, Pumza Sorumaposo has come out of this bruised. He may not get the trade agreements he wants, but he won't be displeased with his performance. Certainly. And it might even be too early to count him out. This is a tactical negotiator. This is a man who's known in South Africa as having been at the seat when South Africa was negotiating a peaceful transition from white apartheid rule to a peaceful democracy. So he knows what to do in difficult situations. So that is one to continue to watch.

He will want to come back to South Africa with a trade deal, one that benefits both countries and try to move away from that moment of a circus that happened in the Oval Office there. Pumza Falani in Johannesburg and before her, Nomiya Iqbal in Washington. Next to Israel. In his first news conference this year, the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that only 20 of the remaining 58 hostages in Gaza were certainly alive. He insisted that the fighting would not stop until all were brought home, Hamas was defeated

and Israeli forces were in control of the whole of Gaza. Speaking in Hebrew, he told reporters Israel was facing a new situation in urban warfare. His words are spoken by one of our producers. Why is the war in Gaza lasting so long? You know, I'll tell you, no army in the world has encountered this type of an urban scenario with tens of thousands of terrorists above ground, 50 meters below ground with a population that supports it. That's a new situation in urban warfare and nothing like this existed before, not in pollution and not elsewhere. As Israel becomes more isolated on the international stage regarding its offensive in Gaza, opinion

polls in Jerusalem suggest there's growing support for an end to the war in the territory, even if it means an agreement with Hamas. Our correspondent, Wirah Davis, sent this report from Jerusalem. Throughout this war, what all Israelis have probably wanted most is the return of the hostages from Gaza. During the last ceasefire at the start of the year, there were joyous scenes in Tel Aviv's hostage square as each week two or three captives were released in exchange for Palestinian prisoners from Israeli jails and the resumption of aid

into Gaza. It was a plan that worked. So when the Israeli government broke the ceasefire and chose not to move to a second phase that could have seen a negotiated end to the war, public opinion shifted. A frequent government critic, the former defense minister Moshe Yalon, said Israel's military action in Gaza has caused serious damage to Israel's international reputation, foreign relations and the economy. And when the U.K. and other Western governments amplified the criticism yesterday, calling for a halt to all military action and the resumption of all aid into Gaza, it made headline news in Israel. People we spoke to in a Jerusalem shopping mall today had mixed views. I think that the only way to bring back the hostages is more military pressure and really have Hamas agree to the Israeli terms, to agree to release all the hostages.

There is human beings inside Gaza and we need as an army, as a nation, as a people, protect us, those people that are not involved in the fight, innocent people, actually. But Israel's prime minister remains unmoved. He's repeatedly said the war in Gaza will not end until Hamas is defeated. Some of his more right-wing ministers have also openly called for Gaza to be flattened and its population exiled to neighboring Arab countries. Such views are not mainstream, and a majority of Israelis now support a ceasefire, even if it means a deal with Hamas, say opinion polls. But until the United States, whose opinion matters most, openly calls for an end to the war, Benjamin Netanyahu is unlikely to back down.

We're a Davis in Jerusalem. Next to Italy and the police have announced a big crackdown on the powerful mafia group known as the Ndrangheta with 200 suspects under investigation including 97 targeted by arrest warrants. They're accused of importing large quantities of cocaine from Colombia, Brazil and Panama. Authorities say the undrangueta paid bribes to get the drugs through the Calabrian port of Teotauro for distribution by a well-oiled system run by several families belonging to the organized crime group. Paul Henley spoke to Professor Anna Sergi from the University of Essex in England who lectures on organized crime and the mafia. the organised crime group. Paul Henley spoke to Professor Anna Sergi from the University of Essex in England who lectures on organised crime and the mafia.

So this police operation is quite significant because apart from the number of the people involved it's the quality of the people who got arrested. So we are talking here about two major clans and the apical members of these two major clans have been under scrutiny for a while and now they've been arrested. So as always with the Ndrageta nothing really makes a difference for a long time. They tend to replicate their structures but this is still a very important operation. The police have focused on the import and distribution of drugs but the Ndrageta are actually about much more than that aren't they? Yes, so the distribution of drugs, but the Ndrageta are actually about much more than that, aren't they?

Yes. So the distribution of drugs and the trafficking of drugs is the core because it's indicated in this operation how these clans manage to actually work together for the sake of the trade of cocaine. They don't always work together. They tend to be to work in silos, but this looks like a joint venture, as they say, a unique body that strengthens one another effectively. So they were moving cocaine from Colombia to Panama through Portugal and Spain and then moving it all the way to Italy by land. This is fairly usual with the Ndrangheta and it speaks to their ability to establish partnership all over the world. But at the same time, this operation is fundamental because it links the drug trade to their power in the territory.

They control the territory in a way that is really oppressive, and they still need to control this territory. They can't go just and traffic drugs all over the world without the grip on the territory that is typical of every mafia and specifically of the Ndrangheta and specifically of these clans that have been involved in this case. Where is their territory and how do they exert this power? So specifically we are talking about clans from the most traditional area for the Ndrangheta which is in the province of Reggio Calabria at the very toe of the Italian peninsula in the region of Calabria. These are the mountain clans, which are the original, let's say, clans of Dendrangheta, the most important, the ones that carry more weight.

And these villages are very small villages where they manage to carry out extortions on a systemic level. So everyone who wants to establish a new business or everyone who wants to carry out public works will have to pay their views to the clans, which is again unfortunately something we've seen forever, unfortunately. But at the same time they are interested in local politics, which means that they try to meddle with the local elections to try and have politicians that are somewhat corruptible. And this control of the territory for them is the most important thing, even more important than the drug trade. The drug trade comes and goes, you have to obey the rules of the game, you are not the one controlling the game, you know it's very difficult to maintain your share of the market but with the control of the territory these clans can really establish their power and really maintain their grip. Professor Anna

Sergi from the University of Essex. Every year hundreds of thousands of people die after contracting malaria. If you're traveling in areas where the disease is widespread you can take anti-malarial tablets but if you live there year-round that is not practical or affordable for most people. So how about giving the mosquitoes that carry the disease anti-malarial treatment themselves? It sounds implausible but as I've been hearing from our health reporter, Philippa Roxby, it could have a huge impact. So this was Harvard University research and they were trying to look for a new way to reduce malaria cases and malaria

deaths. There are millions of malaria cases every year and nearly half a million deaths, most of them in young children. So it's a really serious issue in many parts of Africa. So instead of using insecticides, instead of using vaccines to protect children, they were looking at actually using these anti-malarial drugs or compounds, some of them not yet used for humans, to target the mosquito itself. And by doing that, what you do is kill the parasite inside the mosquito because that's the thing that transmits malaria from person to person. And so if you can target that parasite using drugs, that might be a new way of cutting malaria. An interesting question. How would this be administered? It sounds difficult but not necessarily.

Well they tested it in mosquitoes in the lab. So this is very, very early stage research. But they tested a couple of drugs that they thought might be really good. And they found that they were able to target the energy in the parasite. The parasite was left with no energy and it died. And then they thought, well, why don't we try and coat bed nets, which are widely used in Africa to try and stop people being bitten during the night. Why don't we try and coat these bed nets in anti-malaria drugs? So instead of bed nets coated in insecticide, let's coat them in these drugs. In a very small trial they found that was possible so the mosquitoes would land on the nets, the malaria drugs would be sucked up through their legs and that would kill the

parasite. Presumably this would carry on if it's rolled out. It would carry on alongside anti-malarial programmes, alongside these other programmes, to try to sterilise mosquitoes, all working at the same time against this horrible disease. Yes, exactly. It's one of these horrible diseases where there's not really one solution to it. There are lots and lots of different things you've got to try. Bed nets are one thing, drugs are another, vaccines are another. There's no one answer. So this is just another

avenue that scientists are going to attempt to follow to see if there's potential. It's a long way to go. One of the researchers told us it could be many years before they're actually used in the real world in large numbers. But the point is it's a new way of looking at killing that parasite and reducing malaria. Philippa Roxby. Still to come. Basically this gas helps fight off a condition called hypoxia. That means when there's less oxygen in your body. We hear about a remarkable new way of preparing to climb Mount Everest.

What links the Soviet Union, basketball, and the iconic American rock band, The Grateful Dead? You gotta be kidding. Find out in Bill Walton's The Grateful Team, the new series of amazing sports stories from the BBC World Service. It's a story where sport, rock music, and dramatic world events collide. The Lithuanian team, they were the underdogs and we love underdogs. Now we got a show. Search for amazing sports stories wherever you get your BBC podcasts. The president of the South American country of Guyana, Irfan Ali,

has condemned plans by neighboring Venezuela to hold elections in a disputed border region on Sunday. Venezuela has long claimed the Ezequibo region. Yousef Taha reports. Mr. Ali says he views the plans as a threat, which he takes very seriously. Ezequibo, which has huge oil reserves, makes up two-thirds of Guyana's territory and is home to 15 percent of its citizens. Guyana says any of its citizens who vote in the polls will be charged with treason.

The territorial dispute is before the International Court of Justice in The Hague. Earlier this month, it ordered Venezuela to suspend plans to extend its election to Ezequibo. The row has intensified since Exxon Mobil discovered massive offshore oil deposits a decade ago. That was Youssef Taha. The Indian authorities say their latest census shows that the Asian lion population has increased by more than a third in just five years to 891. Conservationists say the increase reflects a successful conservation program in the Ghia sanctuary in the western Indian state of Gujarat. Paul Henley heard more from Dr M.K.

Randitsin, an Indian conservationist who served as the country's first director of wildlife preservation, creating national parks and sanctuaries. Both personally and professionally it is a matter of great satisfaction and of pride that the numbers have increased, I would say almost exponentially. The lion has been very special to all of us. It has also been our national animal before it was re-thrown by the tiger. And it's a magnificent animal. We all are very proud of it. It is, as would one say, with the tiger, primus inter paris, the first amongst equals.

How have they done it? By better protecting the habitats in my official capacity as government servant for about 60 odd years. It was very evident to me very early on that the best hope, or in fact indeed the only hope, for the long-term survival of not just the wildlife, but of nature is safe only in effectively managed protected areas, our national parks and sanctuaries, and community reserves with the cooperation of the local communities. Now, there are five national parks and sanctuaries in the Gir

region. By effectively protecting those parks and sanctuaries, the population reach carrying capacity of those areas and have spilt out. It is to the credit of both the government and of the local people that they have put up with the lions and have taken care of them and looked after them. The Indian conservationist Dr MK Ranjit Singh. And now to Everest where four British mountaineers have scaled the world's highest peak in less than five days using a new method which has knocked weeks off their acclimatisation time. The ex-military team used Xenon gas before they departed to adjust to the lack of oxygen and protect themselves from altitude sickness. The gas activates

a protein called EPO which stimulates the production of red blood cells that carry oxygen. Our environment correspondent Navin Sinkadkar told us more. The organiser of this expedition told me that basically this gas helps fight off a condition called hypoxia, that means when there's less oxygen in your body. Basically it is to counter that very low level of oxygen, particularly above 8,000 metres at Mount Everest, which is also known as death zone. So that xenon gas helps make those protein and then that translates into hemoglobin and oxygen. And you have oxygen so you can carry on climbing. But here's the catch, there are researchers who say this and there are others who say that this has not been established and there has to be

many other studies to firmly establish this. That's why this is being criticised as well. It's being criticised also by the Sherpas because it reduces the amount of time that mountaineers need to stay at lower levels before they can make the final ascent and that worries them. Some of the operators what they have promised them is that don't worry even if this cuts down your number of days we'll give you your full salary. So good news for those Sherpas who are in touch with these big operators who can afford all this you know big expedition high bracket expedition so to say. But I've also spoken to others they are really worried

they think that if this gas becomes quite common, if it is available and if everyone starts using it, then yes, the duration significantly comes down. So that's why, you know, they won't need that and yes, that will affect them. Is there scope too for increasing the number of people who try to make the ascent and the impact of that could be environmental as well, couldn't it? try to make the ascent and the impact of that could be environmental as well, couldn't it? When I talked to the government officials in Nepal, they were caught napping, they didn't know. And they said that now they are going to investigate and see what can be done about it. So, you know, as far as the policy is concerned, we don't know what happens. But what the organizer

is telling me is it helps actually, it makes climbing safer because your body is able to cope with that situation when there's less oxygen, A. And B, you are exposed to the hazards and the risks and the mountains less now compared to that acclimatization of six to eight weeks. That is the argument. And therefore you have got less carbon footprint, less ecological footprint and so on and so forth.

But yes, you're right. On the other side, if this gas becomes common and more and more people start climbing, then of course the trash, the garbage we talk about, the story will go on. That was our environment correspondent, Navin Singh Khadka. And that's all from us for now, but there will be a new edition

of the Global News Podcast later on. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcast at BBC dot co dot UK. You can also find us on X at BBC World Service. Use the hashtag global news pod. This edition was mixed by Charlotte Hadroy-Talzimska. The producers were Liam McShephry and Paul Day.

The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Nick Miles and until next time, goodbye. What links the Soviet Union, basketball, and the iconic American rock band, The Grateful Dead? You gotta be kidding. Find out in Bill Walton's The Grateful Team, the new series of amazing sports stories from the BBC World Service. It's a story where sport, rock music,

and dramatic world events collide. The Lithuanian team, they were the underdogs, and we love underdogs. Now we gotta show. Search for amazing sports stories wherever you get your BBC podcasts.