Global News Podcast - UK MPs vote in favour of assisted dying

Episode Date: November 30, 2024

The terminally ill in England and Wales could soon have the right to end their lives as MPs vote in favour of assisted dying. Also: Rebel forces take control of parts of Aleppo in Syria, and a big weekend for Hollywood.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hello, I'm Brian Cox. And I'm Robin Ince. He understands the nature of the universe. And so does Robin. Well, you know what? I do have my moments, especially after this new series, the Infinite Monkey Cage,

because we are joined by experts at Bletchley Park. We're talking about cyber warfare, an unexpected history of the body at the Royal Society. Plus, we'll be talking about de-extinction, elasticity and embryology. And there will be comedic interludes. And Pam Ayres on hedgehogs. I mean, she's not riding them. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service.

I'm Valerie Sanderson and in the early hours of Saturday the 30th of November these are our main stories. MPs in the UK approve a bill which will allow terminally ill people the right to end their lives with medical help. Assisted dying is already legal in several countries. We hear from two women in Austria and the Netherlands who help their parents to die. Reports say Islamist rebels have taken several neighbourhoods of Syria's second city Aleppo on the third day of their lightning offensive. I have been displaced for five years, but thank God I am now fighting to reclaim our land from the grip of the criminal regime. Also in this podcast, for a second night,

police in Georgia have deployed tear gas and water cannon against thousands of anti-government protesters in Tbilisi. And Botswana will join Antwerp as a certifier of the origin of rough diamonds. It's been called a once-in-a a generation political and moral decision. For the first time, lawmakers in the UK have approved the first stage of a historic bill that gives terminally ill adults in England and Wales the right to end their lives with medical help. The ice to the right, 330. The nose to the left 275. The MP proposing the bill, Kim Leadbeater, said it would offer adults choice, autonomy

and dignity in death. We are not talking about a choice between life or death, we are talking about giving dying people a choice of how to die. When four former directors of public prosecutions all agree that the law needs to change, surely Mr Speaker, we have a duty to do something about it. The British Prime Minister, Sir Keir Starmer, was among those who voted in favour. The result followed hours of often emotional testimony from MPs on both sides of the debate on assisted dying. Disability and Christian groups played a big

part in the campaign against the bill, worried that a new law could end up devaluing the lives of the vulnerable and those living with disability. Supporters insist the bill has the most safeguards in the world. But opponents such as the Conservative MP Danny Kruger and the Labour MP Diane Abbot are not convinced. We are the safeguard, this place, this Parliament, you and me. We are the people who protect the most vulnerable in society from harm and yet we stand on the brink of abandoning that role. There will be those who say to themselves they don't want to be a burden and I can imagine myself saying that in particular circumstances. Others

will worry that assets they had hoped to leave for their grandchildren are being eroded by the cost of care and there will even be a handful who will think they should not be taking up a hospital bed. MPs were free to vote according to their beliefs. Our political correspondent Rob Watson watched the debate and asked him if this change was driven by what many members of parliament had heard from their constituents. I have to say, based on listening incredibly closely

to the five-hour debates, one of the most extraordinary debates I've heard in the British House of Commons, I think it was almost entirely driven by that, particularly for those arguing for a change, for assisted dying, and there were so many truly heartbreaking stories, Val, of the kinds of terrible deaths that their constituents had suffered from cancer and the pain that they had been in. So absolutely that was a factor. As well I think the opinion polls which do suggest that something like two thirds of British people are in favour of a change.

So how does this bill outline how it's going to work? Well it's supposed to be the most restricted form of assisted dying anywhere in the world that has it and I think it's worth pointing out that not many places do. I think there's something like 30 jurisdictions and quite a lot of them are in the United States and Australia but essentially what it says is that you have to have a terminal illness diagnosis, six months left to live, you need to have your decision confirmed by two doctors saying that you've made this and you're in a perfectly sane state of mind and it also needs to be signed off on by a High Court judge. So what happens now because that was the very first stage of the bill wasn't it? Yes so there's now going

to be months of scrutiny by both Houses of Parliament so the House of Commons and House of Lords and then there'll be a big vote at some point next year to see whether MPs really do want to make this pretty drastic change to social policy in the UK. And it's worth pointing out, Val, that even those supporters of the burlitts proponents say they don't anticipate, even if it gets passed into law, any actual cases for about another two years. Well, you say it's a drastic change. Do you think it's similar to other big moments in British social history, such as legalizing same-sex marriage and abortion? Actually, you know, I'd like to withdraw my word drastic.

It's probably better to say seismic or massive, and I think it is very much like that because if you think about it, for the first time the state is going to be actively assisting citizens to die and that is a pretty extraordinary step to take. And it's hard to imagine that that isn't going to have pretty profound effects on the way British people think about death and about dying and about life and some people say that's a good thing and that people will think about it in a more compassionate, sensible way and others, as you heard in that second clip, are rather worried about some of the effects it might have on how the state treats people and particularly

the fact that in Britain that the health sector is, if you like, part of the state. Rob Watson. More than 300 million people already live in countries with laws that enable assisted dying. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Spain and Austria have all introduced such legislation since 2015, the last time the issue was debated in the British Parliament. Assisted dying has been permitted in Austria since 2022. It was introduced in the Netherlands more than 20 years ago, where it's also extended to children. In both countries, people don't have to be terminally ill to qualify. We heard from Tina in Austria and Maria, a nurse from the Netherlands,

who told us how they'd helped their parents to die. And a warning, some listeners might find this interview upsetting. Maria started by explaining how the process worked with her father. When the second doctor says, okay, the light is green, then within six weeks you make an appointment. And together we were looking in his agenda and when I was young, we didn't know it, but he was really he was an autistic man. So for him, this was so natural. When you go on a journey, you have your agenda and you know, okay, then I go, that's the time. And in his mind, it was his last journey. Tina, you've got a similar experience to Maria with your mother.

Yeah, it was really similar because she was extremely focused and she was actually preparing each step that she could think of. I was trying to figure out if she was correct and it wasn't easy with the nursing home she was in because they weren't actually really prepared. She was the first case there, but they were in the end really helpful. You have to have these two tests from the doctors. Then you have to wait 12 weeks. You have to wait 12 weeks? Yes, yes. Oh, that's a long time. Yes, it is. But I do understand that there's the point where people have to be certain of what they're doing. But the rest had to be done by us basically. Because in Austria, mostly people get the stuff from the pharmacy, go home and do it themselves.

Really? Yes. Unfortunately, so far, yes. Is there no doctors involved? No, no doctors involved, no nurses involved because it hasn't been settled so far. Yeah, actually basically I bought some juice and we mixed it with water to have the perfect combination that she could swallow it and then because it was difficult for her. And I shouldn't have been at her side at this point in time. Yeah, I wasn't sure what she was doing. The relief was already there. Maria, I wonder whether you'd be willing to share your father's final moments. Yes, of course, but there was so much more care for us and for him. The last evening I baked pancakes for him and I slept in his room and in the morning we drank coffee together and he ate a cake and then there was a nurse

coming and she gave him an infuse. I would have really loved to have that. An infuse in his arm. After one hour the doctor was coming and it was his own house doctor. She followed him for four years. It's unbelievable. She was an angel. And we sat together and he had the needle in his arm. arm and she said, we are going to do it now, are you sure? And he said, yes, I am sure. And then he was quiet and then he said, is that an answer? And he looked to her and she said, yes, that is an answer. And then he went to his bed and she said, please lie down. And my sister gave him a big hug and I gave him a big hug.

And then she told, I give you three, three injections. One is to sleep, one is to go in a coma and the third one is to stop your heart. It will be done in a few minutes. Well, he closed his eyes, he gave his arm. Maria from the Netherlands and before that we heard from Tina in Austria. Jihadi-led rebel forces are continuing to take control of parts of the Syrian city of Aleppo after launching a surprise offensive on Wednesday. There's been heavy fighting.

According to official war monitors, the rebels have taken control of at least five neighbourhoods in the city's west. It's the first time they've reached Aleppo since being forced out by the Syrian army, which was backed by Russia and Iran back in 2016. One rebel fighter said he wanted to help take his country back from the forces of President Bashar al-Assad. I have been displaced for five years, but thank God I am now fighting to reclaim our land from the grip of the criminal regime. We will continue on this path and we call upon people sitting at home to get up and

help us take back our country. So who are these rebel fighters? Mina Al-Lami is a jihadist media specialist at BBC Monitoring. It's presented as a collective offensive by rebel groups, but clearly, even though they don't mention it, but clearly it is led by a very important group. It's an Islamist group called Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, or the acronym HTS. And HTS used to be Al-Qaeda's branch in Syria, but it severed ties with Al-Qaeda. Now, HTS controls the biggest rebel stronghold or the remaining stronghold in northern Syria, that it severed ties with Al-Qaeda. Now, HTS controls the biggest rebel stronghold

or the remaining stronghold in northern Syria, that is Idlib. So HTS is leading this offensive even though it hasn't put its name officially on the branding. And the reason for that, of course, it wants to put more of a mainstream, moderate, neutral face to it rather than an Islamist face or rhetoric. And this is possibly in a way to make sure that other rebel groups in the area take part in the offensive but also so that it's not possibly singled out in counteraction. The BBC's Lina Shakuni told us what she'd been hearing during the day. Right now the reporting on opposition media outlets is saying that the rebels have taken hold of several areas inside the city of Aleppo,

which is quite unprecedented. They're advancing quite quickly. There's been reporting of several forces being inside the city and some clashes inside key areas. There's been videos shared online and also on opposition outlets showing military vehicles, armored vehicles roaming around almost empty streets. There's also been videos of regular civilians seemingly to have packed up their bags and just moving in waves to flee the areas where there's fighting. So it's quite an intense situation right now. And what about people on the ground? Do we know what's happening to them?

Yeah, so it's really hard to get accounts from government held areas, which is a city as significant to the government as Aleppo. But I have heard some accounts from people in the city. They're reporting very tense situation. There's a lot of confusion. At the beginning of the hours of today, I've been asking people what's going on and they're staying inside. They're staying put trying to figure out what's going on. But I did hear an account from people who are in the Western areas of the city where the rebels first started coming in saying that there are people who are in the western areas of the city where the rebels first started coming in saying that there are people who came into the mosques and started broadcasting messages to people telling them to stay put, not to leave

their houses. These are rebels who are coming into the mosques and making these kind of announcements. People are saying they don't know whether to leave or stay. This is the first time isn't it that rebel forces have reached Aleppo since they were forced out by the Syrian army back in 2016. Why are they being able to advance now? There's a lot of speculation over why now. Some people are saying that maybe the rebels are taking advantage of the ceasefire announcement between Hezbollah and Israel to engulf the rebel stance right now. Hezbollah is one of the biggest allies

of the Syrian government. So maybe this is a message to Iran and Hezbollah that they're still there and that they're gonna advance to prove their might in any negotiation that might happen about the future of Syria between Iran, between Hezbollah, between Syria and all the other regional powers that have a stake in what happens in Syria. Lina Shekouni. Botswana has welcomed its inclusion alongside Belgium as a hub authorized to certify rough diamond

exports to the G7 Group of Wealthy Nations. Botswana is the world's second biggest diamond producer and had protested against Belgium's monopoly on issuing certificates from its diamond market in Antwerp. The newsroom's Richard Hamilton reports. Diamonds are key to Botswana's economy. It's Africa's leading producer and the second largest in the world behind Russia. Gemstones account for around 80% of its exports, a third of its tax revenues and a quarter of its GDP. In August, the then-president Mokwitsi Masisi was presented with the latest discovery. Put your hands up. Both. Both.

Both? You have to have both. What? It was a rough 2492 carat stone unearthed at the Karowei mine. God is good. He's awesome. mine. God is good. It was also the biggest find since the Kullanan diamond was discovered in South Africa in 1905. Botswana's new president Duma Boko is trying to improve transparency in the mining industry saying he wants the country's precious stones to in his, shine not only in aesthetics but also in ethics.

This new initiative is really about ensuring that Russian diamonds don't enter Western markets. In January the G7 group of wealthy nations imposed a ban on Russian diamonds, including those processed in other countries. The G7 says it's also engaging with other African nations which mine precious stones such as Namibia and Angola to give them export certification hubs too. The change in government in Botswana was partly down to a slump in the diamond trade. In his first State of the Nation address, President Boko said he would try to diversify the economy away from its

diamond dependency towards other industries such as solar energy and medicinal cannabis. Richard Hamilton, are we seeing a reversal of fortunes for Hollywood? So between Wicked, Gladiator 2 and Moana 2, we're going to have one of the biggest Thanksgiving periods for movie theatres ever. Hello I'm Brian Cox. And I'm Robin Ince. He understands the nature of the universe. And so does Robin. Well, do you know what?

I do have my moments, especially after this new series, The Infinite Monkey Cage, because we are joined by experts at Bletchley Park who are talking about cyber warfare, an unexpected history of the body at the Royal Society, plus we'll be talking about de-extinction, elasticity and embryology. And there will be comedic interludes and Pam Ayres on hedgehogs. I mean she's not riding them. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. For a second night, thousands of people have returned to the streets of the Georgian capital Tbilisi to protest against the ruling Georgian Dream Party's decision to suspend access talks

with the European Union. Dozens were arrested in clashes overnight and water, cannon and tear gas have again been deployed. More than a hundred diplomats and civil servants have signed an open letter saying the decision doesn't align with Georgia's strategic interests. This is what a couple of those protesting had to say. I personally think that even one person can make changes, even one person who is protesting. So we have to protest because we are entering in the phase where there is no way back. We want our freedom and we are not going to attend the lessons, we're not going to attend the university, we're just going to stand here with our people and protect our freedom because we're not giving this precious country to Russia.

Our correspondent, Rehan Dubeitri, is in Tbilisi. There's a massive crowd tonight that fields the main avenue, the Rustavele Avenue, that runs past the parliament, which is a couple of hundred meters away from where I'm standing now. People are waving EU flags. People are draped in the Georgian national flags. At the parliament there's a group of protesters who are banging on the metal barrier that was installed at the front entrance to the parliament and there's a lot of anger that can be sensed from these protesters. Earlier today several hundred civil servants signed a statement saying that the

government's decision to hold Georgia's EU accession process goes against the national interest and that they disagree with this decision. And this huge crowd has gathered here despite the crackdown that happened earlier on Friday. In the early hours of Friday morning, riot police moved in with water cannons and tear gas and I'm hearing now in the distance what sounds like perhaps more tear gas this and and the whole crowd is booing and from this side of the avenue more people are arriving. They are saying that this is the last chance for them to save Georgia's democracy and to save this country from being

dragged back into Russia's orbit. Rehan Dimitri. Global efforts have centered this week on plastic pollution and how to tackle it. Representatives from many nations gathered in the South Korean city of Busan for the fifth and final round of negotiations to craft a legally binding global treaty on plastic pollution.

It's been more than two years in the making. Plastic production has skyrocketed over the last 70 years. In 1950, the world produced just two million tonnes of plastic. Now it manufactures more than 450 million tonnes. Much of this has been driven by the use of single-use plastic, which accounts for half of all production. The BBC's Jonah Fisher has been following the negotiations.

These talks in Busan, they're supposed to be the final stage of the negotiating process. There are now two days left before they end on Sunday. And the dividing line, the real point of conflict, as we always rather suspected it would be, is whether the agreement will commit countries to cuts in plastic production. Large parts of the world are ready to commit to making cuts, but oil producing countries, so think Saudi Arabia, India, Russia, Iran, have been resisting that, and that's in part because plastic is made from fossil fuels, and so it's a good income stream for them. Those countries want the emphasis of this treaty to be on measures to better deal with plastic waste.

So that might be, for example, recycling. So with the end of the negotiations now in sight, what does it look like we've got on the table? Well, there are three possible options, I think. It is possible that the meeting will press ahead with a treaty with a meaningful commitment to reduce plastics, and that would mean that there would be meetings held every year, a bit like the COP climate talks, where countries would commit to targets to reduce plastic production. But if that happens, it's very unlikely the oil producing countries will commit to that.

And they may well walk out, which would then mean there wouldn't be a consensus for that agreement. But it could still become a United Nations treaty. It's possible also that the oil producers will succeed in running the clock down effectively, making it impossible for any real agreement to be reached in Busan. If that's the case,

it's likely there'll be another meeting next year. By that time, the world is likely to have changed in terms of leaders. The United States, for example, will have Donald Trump as a president. The third option is that great efforts will be made to get everybody to agree to something. And the fear, I think, from some sides is if that is done, the document that comes out of it may be so weak in terms of the commitments

that have been made in it that it will effectively be worthless, that there will be nothing that really addresses the scale of the world's plastic problem and that in order to get everyone to agree it's watered down to almost meaninglessness. Jonah Fisher, the international organisation of wine and wine says the impact of climate change means global wine production is expected to fall this year to its lowest level since 1961. Tom Bailey reports. In a new report the intergovernmental organisation outlined a bleak picture for winemakers in

many parts of the world, with meteorological events such as early frosts, heavy rainfall and droughts dramatically affecting production. Output in France, the world's biggest wine producer last year, is forecast to plummet by around 23 percent, the largest drop in the sector. That's been blamed on prolonged rainfall in many of the country's main grape growing regions this year, with Champagne, Burgundy and Beaujolais particularly affected. But there were some exceptions to the downward trend, with a small group of countries, most notably the United States, managing average or above-average production volumes. Tom Bailey.

In the US, film industry experts are predicting it could be an historic Thanksgiving Day holiday with record numbers of people going to see movies. In recent days, two films, Wicked and Gladiator 2, have brought new life to cinemas around the world, still languishing in the wake of the pandemic. From New York, Tom Brook reports. Live and streaming from CBS News, New York. Wicked, the Wicked Witch of the West origin story, earned $114 million in the US, the most ever.

For the first time in months, cinema operators are relieved. The presence of two big budget films, Wicked, an adaptation of a much loved Broadway show, and Gladiator 2, the long awaited sequel to a 2001 blockbuster, have brought out the crowds. Cinema has once again moved to the center of social media chit chat and conversations around the world. Outside one of Manhattan's biggest cinemas, New Yorkers are eager to savor what's on offer. I heard that Wicked's pretty amazing. I heard that it's worth the wait and that all the actors did really, really well.

I think people are talking more about Wicked than Gladiator. I mean, my mom brought it up. Wicked is very much in the forefront, so I'm hearing much more about that particular film and the actresses and the production design more than Gladiator, but I want to see Gladiator as well. Now with the arrival of the Thanksgiving holiday, one of the biggest movie going times of the year, box office experts are predicting a bonanza for Hollywood.

This is a call from the ancestors. Especially with the arrival of the new Disney animated musical Moana 2. Paul de Garabedian is senior media analyst at Comscore. So between Wicked, Gladiator 2 and Moana 2, we're going to have one of the biggest Thanksgiving periods for movie theaters ever. And this is no small thing, and it's much needed right now,

considering how slow and disrupted the box office was at the beginning of the year, due to the various strikes and work stoppages. This is really good news for theaters. Are people born wicked? That cinema has once again become a cultural phenomenon bringing people together is most definitely being welcomed by the filmmaking community. Director Todd Comannici. I'm happy for Gladiator 2 success and Wicked success. I'm a huge believer that the cinema

is kind of our secular church in America. And when people are going to the movies, they're talking to each other. They're engaging with strangers. They're experiencing stories with strangers. This is deeply important, because in this time when we're so divided, the cinema can actually be a healing force. The wonderful Wizard of Oz

summons you to Emerald City. Come with me. But it's not a story of people everywhere linking arms and venturing to the cinema together. Audience tracking shows that those seeing Wicked have been predominantly female and that for Gladiator 2, more male and younger. That mirrors to some extent the gender divide

apparent in the recent US presidential election. New York film critic Joseph Holmes. I think that people to a certain degree these movies are benefiting from the trends of the fact that men and women are moving apart culturally and politically and philosophically and in their tastes but that's just another aspect of how most of the country is kind of moving apart in its tastes from each other in different ways. We're headed to Oz. Universal finally dropped the first trailer for its highly anticipated musical Wicked. Wicked and Gladiator 2 partly triumphed because both were the subject of unusually intense marketing campaigns. But Hollywood veterans think their brand of escapist cinema is going to become more the norm nowadays,

given all the tumult in the world that people want to put to one side when they go to the cinema. Oscar-winning director Ron Howard. The country's been going through such turmoil. Studios, streamers, you know, have been pushing everybody toward, you know, popular escapist entertainment for a while is a much wiser investment, which makes a lot of sense, given people's need to take a break once in a while. Both Wicked and Gladiator 2 are expected to have what are termed long legs, the power to prevail at the box office for a long time. But all the hype and excitement surrounding these films cannot paper over big problems plaguing the industry.

Even with the biggest crowds in months showing up at cinemas, overall box office in the US this year will still be below what it was before the pandemic. It's proving a big challenge to bring moviegoers back to cinemas. It will need more than the magic in Wicked to turn around the industry's fortunes. In today's Oz, true magic has become all too rare. The Movies with Tom Brook in New York. And that's it from us for now, but there'll be a new edition of the Global News podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, send us an email.

The address is globalpodcast.bbc.co.uk. You can also find us on X at Global News Pod. This edition was fixed by Martin Baker. The producer was Marion Straughan. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Valerie Sanderson. Until next time, bye bye. Hello I'm Brian Cox. And I'm Robin Ince. He understands the nature of the universe. And so does Robin. Well, you know what?

I do have my moments, especially after this new series, The Infinite Monkey Cage, because we are joined by experts at Bletchley Park who are talking about cyber warfare, an unexpected history of the body at the Royal Society. Plus, we'll be talking about de-extinction, elasticity, and embryology. And there will be comedic interludes. And Pam Ayres on hedgehogs. I mean, she's not riding them.

Listen wherever you get your podcasts.