Global News Podcast - US and Europe discuss ending Ukraine war

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

US and Ukrainian officials discuss ending the Ukraine war with European allies in Paris. Also: Russia has seized thousands of homes in occupied Ukraine, and scientists find promising signs of life on a distant planet

This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Janet Jaleel and at 13 Hours GMT on Thursday the 17th of April, these are our main stories. US and European ministers meet to discuss ending the war in Ukraine in their highest level talks in weeks. A BBC investigation finds that in the Russian occupied Ukrainian city of Mariupol, thousands of homes have been seized illegally. Gaza's Hamas-run civil defense agency says the latest Israeli airstrikes have killed at least 37 people. Also in this podcast?

It's a transformational moment in astronomy and in science because this is one of the longest standing questions in the history of science, are we alone? A telescope picks up the strongest signs yet that there may be life on another planet and how our ancestors managed to outwit Neanderthals by using sunscreen. For European leaders who've been shaken by the dismissive, even hostile rhetoric of the Trump administration about the transatlantic alliance that has long ensured peace on their continent, there's a lot at stake in today's high-level talks in Paris. The US Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Donald Trump's special

envoy Steve Wittkopf are meeting President Macron and ministers from other European nations to discuss how to end the war in Ukraine. And the Ukrainian foreign and defence ministers have also flown into the French capital. The Europeans will be looking to see if the American president is going to get tougher with Russia after it rejected a US ceasefire proposal, provoking some rare, if mild, criticism from Mr Trump. The talks will also include the US's recent attempts to broker a deal on Iran's nuclear program and the situation in the Middle East. I asked our diplomatic correspondent, James Landell, how significant it was that these talks were happening at all.

It's interesting and significant simply because the Americans thus far have been pretty reluctant to actually negotiate and discuss and engage with the Europeans on a serious level about their efforts to seek peace in Ukraine. If you think about it, it's largely been bilateral actions, talks in the Middle East, envoys meeting President Putin in Russia, but it's been US-led. And the European file has largely been about discussing this so-called coalition of the willing in a ceasefire reassurance force that would go in if and when there was any kind of ceasefire in Ukraine. The Americans always promise, they yes we will consult the Europeans, but I think the fact that they are now having serious conversations with the European

foreign ministers is not just with the French, the British, the French, the German national security advisors are there as well. The Ukrainians are now turned up. So I think that the fact this would give a real opportunity for the Europeans to tell the Americans precisely what they think should happen. Because the Europeans are very concerned, aren't they, about the failure of the US thus far to convince Russia to agree to its ceasefire proposal? Oh absolutely. I mean if you think about it, for some time now, Ukraine has made a huge concession. It has basically given up its demand for the promise of security guarantees in the future in return for agreeing a temporary ceasefire. They've given up that concession

to the Americans and said, right, OK, we'll just accept your proposal for an unconditional ceasefire. The Russians have done nothing. since then in fact the Russians have stepped up the tempo of their attacks on civilians in cities throughout Ukraine as we've seen in recent days and that has generated a huge amount of frustration within European capitals who are hoping along with the Ukrainians that eventually the penny may drop with the Americans that at the moment the Russians do not appear serious about wanting to end this conflict. And the Europeans are frustrated also because a decade ago they agreed with the US a deal

with Iran to curb its nuclear programme. Donald Trump pulled out of that deal and now the US wants to talk again about curbing Iran's nuclear programme when it's far more advanced than it was a decade ago? What's really interesting on this though is a very different approach has been taken here by the Americans. They are negotiating with the Iranians. They had some talks last week in Muscat in Oman. There are more talks planned for this weekend in Rome. And there, yes, there is the threat of potential force behind the diplomacy, but at the moment the Americans are very serious about trying to seek some kind of diplomatic solution to

this. Where the Europeans have concerns about these negotiations is the fear that the Americans will allow the Iranians to make a modest concession in a way that doesn't actually get rid of the nuclear threat as is considered by the West, denied by Iran of course. The most nervous observers though are the Israelis who are watching these negotiations and there's a high degree of anxiety that they might end up in a place where they do not want to be.

James Landell, well at the same time a BBC investigation has found that the Moscow-backed authorities in occupied Ukraine are systematically seizing thousands of homes from residents who fled the city of Mariupol when it came under siege three years ago. Much of the coastal city was destroyed or damaged in 2022, mainly by continuous Russian bombardments, and thousands of civilians were killed, although the exact number still remains unknown. For those with homes still standing that they want to save, they face the prospect of a dangerous return to Mariupol as they would have to go through Russia first and overwhelming pressure to give up their Ukrainian passports to take

Russian ones instead. Olga Robinson was part of the investigation team. We've been analysing dozens of official documents published by Russian installed authorities in Mariupol since July 2024 and they are publicly available for Mariupol residents. These are documents that contain long lists of addresses and we've categorised them in accordance with different stages of the seizing process. Now it's a very complicated bureaucrating procedure but effectively to seize property the Russian authorities identify and declare it as ownerless and then after a while get it transferred into city ownership through a Russian court. Now ownerless is a term, very specific one, that they use to describe property that in their view hasn't been used for a while or hasn't been registered properly with the Russian

authorities. Now in reality, many of these homes, flats and individual homes do have owners. These are Ukrainians who have fled the occupation or they're heirs if they die during Russian attacks. So to save their homes, Ukrainians have to go through a very complicated procedure. They have to risk their safety and possibly risk losing their identity as well. Yes indeed, Ukrainians we spoke to say that once their property has been flagged to the authorities as owners, it's near impossible to get it back and that's because they are required to turn up in

Mariupol in person within just 30 days since their property appears on the initial owners list and those who have fled effectively would have to physically go to Russia and that means face gruelling federal security service checks at the Sheremetyevo airport in Moscow. The only way to get into the occupied territories from Russia and these can last up to weeks, so they're literally physically gruelling. And then even if they've managed to come to Mariupol, they still have to bring a Russian passport. And that effectively means that they risk their own safety and then have to choose whether they preserve their national identity or their

home. And the people still left in Mariupol, they're very unhappy about this too. Well, there's been a lot of confusion because of the scheme, because it's very, very complicated. We spent months analysing chats on Telegram with people clearly being confused and unhappy about what's going on. But there's also been quite unusually a bit of public pushback against that too. And that's because the Russian installed authorities now say that once a flat has been seized, it can be given to Mariupol residents who are Russian passport holders, and who have lost their property. And some people have been uneasy about the legal status of all of this. And they have been saying, well, we're not thieves,

we don't want other people's flats, because these are our neighbors. and they have been appealing to President Putin himself to intervene and stop this. But we know that he's very unlikely to do it because he's personally endorsed this scheme himself in December. Olga Robinson. China may be hoping the US will be the one to initiate discussions on a trade deal, but the US has said it's up to Beijing to make the first move on the issue of tariffs. However, President Trump has had direct talks with Japan's top trade negotiator, Ryosei Akazawa, saying they made big progress. Mr. Akazawa described the US tariffs imposed on Japan as very regrettable and strongly urged the Trump administration

to review them. Mr. Trump says they will take top priority, but the Japanese Prime Minister Shigeru Ishiba says the negotiations won't be easy. From Tokyo, Hishima Kaleo. While Japan hasn't been able to secure tariff relief from the U.S., the surprise decision by President Trump to take part in the talks with the chief negotiator, Ryohei Okazawa, is significant. Mr. Okazawa has urged Washington to reconsider all levies imposed on his country during talks with the Treasury Secretary Scott Besant. The Trump administration set the reciprocal tariff on Japanese imports at 24%.

Japan's car makers are facing a 25% levy. It's a huge blow to the auto industry, which represents nearly a third of the country's total exports to the US. This week Honda Motors decided to shift production of its hybrid civic model from Japan to its plant in Indiana to mitigate the impact. Japan has been the US's top investor for five years running, creating thousands of American jobs. Tariff negotiations between Tokyo and Washington are seen as a barometer for how the Trump administration might deal with other countries reeling from US levies and the uncertainty they sparked. Shai Mikhailil, it's the strongest evidence yet that life exists elsewhere in the universe.

That's a claim being made by scientists at Cambridge University. They've detected signs of molecules on a distant planet which on Earth are only produced by living organisms. The planet is called K2-18b. It's two and a half times the size of Earth. But it's so far away that it can't be reached in any of our lifetimes. It's more than a quadrillion kilometres away from us. That's a thousand trillion kilometres or 124 light years. Professor Niku Madhusudan led the research. It's a transformational moment in astronomy and in science because this is one of the longest standing questions in the history of science, are we alone? And what we may

be seeing are the first signs of being able to answer that question. This is a big claim if it is true, so we want to be really, really thorough and make more observations and get the evidence to the level that there is less than a one in a million chance of it being a fluke. So we want to be really careful there. Even like in the broader history of astronomy, this is one of the pinnacle moments. If this turns out to be true, this would be one of the defining moments of modern astronomy. So how excited should we be? Our science correspondent, Pallabh Ghosh, is following the story. Well it is incredibly exciting. It's the biggest question in science. Are we alone in the universe?

Are we able to answer it? Unfortunately no, at least not yet. So it ought to be a party pooper, but let's start with the caution and then move on to the excitement. And there's a lot of excitement. and then move on to the excitement. And there's a lot of excitement. Even though this substance, this gas in the atmosphere, can be produced by plankton on Earth, it's an alien world, and it could be produced by some strange volcano, some non-living means on another planet. The second caveat is the fact that they haven't detected enough yet to come conclusively that it's there. But it's the strongest evidence yet and they've detected it in such an amount that if it's there, it's plentiful. And if it's plentiful, then it could be teeming with life. So that would be an incredible discovery. They say, they hope to have the scientific proof that the gas is there in a couple of

years time. And again, I have to say that there'll still be a lot of bickering as to whether it's produced by life or not for years to come. But anyway, it is quite breathtaking what they've done. Paragosh. Well, scientists have also made an intriguing discovery back here on Earth about why Neanderthals became extinct about 40,000 years ago. US researchers think part of the reason may be that our Homo sapien ancestors used their own version of sunscreen

at a time when radiation levels were unusually high. Alice Adderley explains. Scientists from the University of Michigan say use of elements such as sunscreen against increasing solar radiation and tailored clothing may have given Homo sapiens an advantage over their Neanderthal cousins who died out around 40,000 years ago. Most of the Earth's surface is usually protected from the sun's radiation because its magnetic field sends it towards the North and South poles in what we know as the Northern and Southern Lights. But, scientists say, over the Earth's four and a half billion year history, the North and South poles have periodically swapped places. It can take centuries or even millennia, and while this happens the Earth's magnetic field is weakened to around 10% of its usual strength, meaning much more harmful radiation

reaches nonpolar regions. Around 42,000 years ago there was one of these events and the researchers think that Homo sapiens may have used the mineral compound ochre not only for cave paintings but also to paint their bodies. It has sun protective properties when applied to skin. This and developing sewing skills to make fitted clothing to protect them from the elements may help to explain why modern humans survived during this period as exposure to radiation can cause disease and birth defects. The researchers say there's no single cause,

but Homo sapiens' greater ability to adapt to changing circumstances explains why they pushed Neanderthals out of the evolutionary race. Alice Adley. Still to come on the Global News podcast. It's the first ATM in the history of the country. And I said, wait, hold on. It's 2025.

And they're like, yes. The Pacific Island nation of Tuvalu enters the world of digital banking for the first time. You're listening to the Global News Podcast. The latest overnight Israeli airstrikes in Gaza have killed at least 37 people, according to Hamas officials. One of the strikes hit a camp for displaced Palestinians in the city of Khan Yunis. Yusuf Abu Arous's sister and her children died in a huge fire caused by that attack. He said a boy in a wheelchair was also one of the victims.

All we saw and heard was fire and gunfire, nothing else. We tried to put out the fire. We used water and whatever we could to put it out. We managed to rescue some bodies. A 12-year-old disabled child, he was burnt in the wheelchair. We carried him. Even his bones had melted as we were pulling him out. Gaza's Hamas-run Health Ministry says that since Israel broke the ceasefire last month, more than 1,650 people have been killed. The UN estimates more than half a million others have been displaced in that period of time. Israel has also refused for weeks to allow food and humanitarian assistance into Gaza. It says to increase the pressure on Hamas to release the dozens

of hostages still in the Strip. Our correspondent in Jerusalem, Yulanda Nel, told me more about the latest Israeli attacks on Gaza. Well, at least 23 people were killed last night and this morning local time, according to local hospitals. And we're hearing that the biggest number was in this tented camp for displaced people in Chanyounas in the south of the Strip, where 10 people were killed. Israel's military has not yet commented on those strikes.

And Israel's announced that 30% of the Gaza Strip has now been effectively turned into a buffer zone. Explain this to us. That's right, it's calling this an operational security perimeter. We knew that during the recent ceasefire, troops withdrew to the edge of the Gaza Strip. It was only a partial pullout and now they have been advancing from those areas. But we also had these comments from the Israeli Defense Ministry a day ago basically saying that the military would remain indefinitely in large areas of the Gaza Strip which its troops had recently moved back into. He said this

would be what he called a buffer between Israeli communities and what he called the enemy. What does Israel say is the final purpose of this? Because Hamas is accusing it of trying to starve the population of Gaza, trying to force the population out. There were those hostages released during the ceasefire, there have been no hostages released since the end of the ceasefire. What is Israel's final goal? Well Israel's been saying that it renewed its military offensive to put pressure on Hamas to give up the remaining hostages that it's holding. There are 24 who are believed to be alive and while there are still efforts by

regional mediators with the US to try to get a new ceasefire agreement, Israel had said when it relaunched its military operations that all future talks would take place under fire. Those were the words of the Prime Minister. Now we've had details given to us in the past day of some senior Hamas figures who have been killed. Israel is saying more than a hundred targeted eliminations have been carried out but the figures we have from the Hamas one health ministry more than 1650 people killed since the offensive restarted,

mostly women, children and the elderly they're saying. J.L. The civil war in Sudan, which has been raging for two years, has led to more than one million people crossing into South Sudan. Most of these people are South Sudanese citizens returning home. But they're returning to a country which is also on the brink of civil war, which means that they're trapped effectively between two conflicts. Akisa Wanderer reports from Rengk on the South Sudan border. The midday sun scorches the dusty ground in Rengk. Once a quiet border town, it's now a transit point for thousands displaced by the Sudan war.

For many people here, it is the second time they are fleeing, first from South Sudan's civil war and now from Sudan. But the situation here is also worsening. A peace deal signed in 2018 is threatening to collapse. The years of insecurity in South Sudan means roads in the surrounding towns are impossible or too dangerous. The only way out is by boat. We have a temporary port here in Drangkwa. The boats are being loaded as hundreds of people prepare

to make their journey to Malakau. Priority has been given to the vulnerable people, elderly, sick, women and children, who are boarding the boats first, one by one up the ladder. Mary Dan clutches a worn envelope. It holds documents securing her family's spot on this journey down the River Nile. When we came, this child was one day old. We are 16 people here. We had nothing when we left Medani. Our situation was very difficult when we arrived. A thousand people and we had nothing with us, but God supported us.

A thousand people and we had nothing with us. But God supported us. The boat that hundreds of people are boarding right now is made of steel and is open. It does not have seats, so many will make do with sitting on top of their luggage for the two and a half day journey. This particular boat will be carrying about 400 to 500 people. Vijaya Suri is the chief of mission of the International Organization for Migration in South Sudan. One of the reasons why this onward transportation program was considered so critical was to de-congest this area, to help mostly the South Sudanese be able to join locations and areas where they have stronger networks, stronger

community or family ties, livelihood opportunities, but also access to partners who are offering service for which they would be eligible. But not everyone can leave. In a corrugated shelter, Sarah William tries to distract her children with games. She's been here for five months. I've now spent a month without food. I used to sell firewood for flour, but now there is no more firewood. I wanted to go home to my village. I'm from Nazir, but there is no road. The spillover effects of the Sudan war and political instability in South Sudan has left

an estimated 9.3 million people in need of humanitarian assistance, according to the International Rescue Committee. This camp in Rengk was built for 3,000 and now nearly 9,000 people call it home. Aid is stretched thin. Back at the transit centre, children dance to music from a tiny radio, their laughter defying the harsh reality around them. That was Akisa Wanderer reporting from the South Sudan border. Now to the US territory of Puerto Rico. Eight years ago, two hurricanes caused its entire electricity grid to collapse. Since then, the island has experienced a string of

major power outages. The last island-wide blackout occurred less than four months ago on New Year's Eve and now just before Easter residents were once again plunged into darkness on Wednesday night leaving more than a million people without electricity. It's not immediately clear what caused the failure but power is slowly being restored. Rosanna Torres is a resident of Puerto Rico and she told La Cresa Barack that there is increasing frustration about these outages. People are understandably very upset.

There's a lot of people with the means that have invested in generators and so life appears to carry on, but not everybody can afford a generator. And we have an aging population, so we have a lot of older adults living alone and are now in the dark. We have people that depend on refrigerated medications that are now at serious risks. Small businesses, some are forced to shut down

and lose a day's income income and that happens too frequently. Now this has been going on for nearly eight years now since Hurricane Maria and Irma, that back to back really devastated our grid and then we had earthquakes and you know at that time it seemed reasonable that this was going to take some time. It was, the destruction was very evident. But now when we're nearing eight years and money is not the problem, we have secured federal funding to rebuild and modernize the grid,

what seems to be missing is execution and accountability. And that's why people are so frustrated. What have the government been saying about all of this then? I think part of the problem is that there are too many cooks in the kitchen. Even before this new administration took over and appointed an energy czar, there was already 14 different entities in charge of managing or inputting into the system in some way, shape or form. And so it seems like, you know, there's so many people that are responsible that no one really is.

So let's just talk about how people are actually coping. You say the lucky ones do have generators. So for those who don't, how are they coping? How on earth are they getting access to water, for example? We rely a lot on community. We rely a lot on each other. And so family, more than likely, is stepping in. Whomever does have a generator. I've been offered today for many friends and families being able to go elsewhere and have

access to power. Do you see any solution being brought about? You said that the grid, you know, it's reached capacity, it hasn't really recovered since the hurricanes. You know, is there a solution to this? I think we have to see how the public responds. There have already been calls for protests. I've heard a lot of sirens and people honking their horns, but we'll see if that actually plays out or not. You know we're in Holy Week and many people are out on vacation maybe this just slides under the radar again. I mean it's interesting you say it is Holy Week so how are

people cooking food? I mean this is a time for families to gather a lot of food to be cooked. Yeah well a lot of the pots and pans are being used right now in a protest in front of the governor's mansion. So I don't think that they're doing a lot of cooking today. They're mainly protesting. That was Rosanna Torres. The Philippine actress, Nora Orner, considered by many to be the country's greatest performer, has died at the age of 71. The cause of her death has not been disclosed. Our Asia Pacific editor, Micky Bristow, reports. Nora Anor was born into poverty and helped the family income by selling water and snacks

at a railway station. After breaking into acting in the 1960s she went on to star in 170 films as well as TV dramas. One fellow actress said that every tear she'd shed on screen felt like a collective heartbreak. Anol was also a renowned singer. The President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos, described her as a gift to the nation and she'll be given a state funeral. Miki Brusto, until now people in the Pacific Island nation of Tuvalu had relied on cash, queuing outside banks to collect their salaries on payday. But for the first time, its 11,000 residents are celebrating something that many of us take for granted – an ATM machine.

At a special ceremony attended by the Prime Minister, Tuvalu's first cash point was unveiled. Four others have also been installed. My colleague, Will Baines, spoke to the Simone journalist Largie Pouiva-Sherrell Jackson, who was at the ceremony. It's the first ATM in the history of the country and I said, wait, hold on, it's 2025. And they're like, yes. And what's made the change? Why have they decided they're necessary, I suppose. I've spoken to everyone from the general manager to the prime minister to people on the street to government workers, and they've all desired to have it. But there are at the

end of the day, only 6,000 customers. And so so as the general manager said, it just wasn't profitable enough to even consider. And so what's changed? What's changed is that there's government willingness and that they feel that they need to catch up with the rest of the world, that they need to do it in order to develop further their tourism, government, private sector and so forth. So there's this willingness by the government and the bank to make it happen and somehow everything fell into place. Yeah, and I guess for the economy too, at home, not just from those tourists, people

having access to cash perhaps makes them a bit more willing to spend it if they don't think they're going to run out of it and worry about how they're gonna find some more. It's very awkward to fly here hoping that the amount of cash you have at hand is enough. Journalist Largie Povey of S. Cheryl Jackson. And that's all from us for now but there will be a new edition of the Global News podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcast.bbc.co.uk. This edition was mixed by Masood Ibrahim Qayyil, the producer with Shantol Hartle, the editor

is Karen Martin. I'm Junaid Jaleel. Until next time, goodbye.