Global News Podcast - US military execution to be livestreamed

Episode Date: October 9, 2026

Nidal Hasan, a former army psychiatrist who killed 13 unarmed soldiers at Fort Hood in Texas, will not only be the first person to die by a US military firing squad since 1945. His execution, which is set for December, would also be the first to be seen by the public in the US for 90 years. Also, cars have been set on fire and shops owned by foreigners were reportedly targeted during violence in South Africa because of tensions surrounding illegal immigration. Police in Britain have accepted that they behaved unlawfully when they searched the homes of Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, the brother of King Charles and former prince who was arrested on suspicion of misconduct in public office. He denies any wrongdoing. Microsoft has been suspended from a US visa programme that hires skilled foreign workers as the Vice President, JD Vance, accuses the software giant of giving away American jobs. And could Jonathan the tortoise, who is 194, help humans live longer lives?The Global News Podcast brings you the breaking news you need to hear, as it happens. Listen for the latest headlines and current affairs from around the world. Politics, economics, climate, business, technology, health – we cover it all with expert analysis and insight. Get the news that matters, delivered twice a day on weekdays and daily at weekends, plus special bonus episodes reacting to urgent breaking stories. Follow or subscribe now and never miss a moment. Get in touch: [e-mail]

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It's O'Dbolo.com. Part of why I blew the whistle was I didn't want to lay in bed in 20 years. Having seen another million people die, and know that I could have done something when I had a chance. This week on the interface, we're talking to Francis Howigan. The Facebook whistleblower who leaked the documents

that changed how the world saw social media. And now she is the subject of Aaron Sorkin's latest movie, The Social Reckoning. So join me, Thomas Germain. And me, Jess Madeline. for the interface. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Alex Ritson, and in the early hours of Friday the 9th of October, these are our main stories. The Pentagon says it will live stream the firing squad execution of a former army officer convicted of a mass shooting on a U.S. military base. In South Africa, there have been more violence. and anti-immigrant protests across the country. Britain's former Prince Andrew

wins his claim against the police over their raids on his homes. Also in this podcast. Genre defying doesn't really get close to it. She's genre destroying. I mean, there are no sort of formal borders in her work. The Canadian poet and writer Anne Carson wins the Nobel Prize for Literature.

And what can a 194-year-old tortoise tell us about living a long life. The execution of Nidal Hassan in the United States, which is due to happen in December, was already unprecedented. It would be the first military execution by firing squad of a soldier since the end of the Second World War, and the last execution in public in the US was in 1936. Now, the US Defence Secretary, Pete Hegesith,

has decided to go further by announcing that the execution will be live-streamed. Hassan, a former army psychiatrist, shot dead 13 unarmed U.S. soldiers at the Fort Hood military base in Texas in 2009. He later said he was retaliating for America's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Mr. Hegseth explained why the execution would be at Fort Hood. Army Major betrays his country, radical Islamist kills a bunch of Americans at Fort Hood. Of course we're going to do it at Fort Hood. We're going to do it on a Thursday. We're going to do it at 1 o'clock, which is when he did it.

and it's going to be soldiers with rifles executing the firing squad. It hadn't been since World War II since we've done that. Well, I kind of like the mentality we had in World War II, which was win, which was, I understand when the enemy attacks you, you need to stand your ground. I heard more from Daniel Lipman, who is a White House reporter from the website Politico. This would be the first live-streamed public execution of anyone in American history. Usually these things are behind closed doors, but Hegsteth has made a very important, in his view, significant decision to make the military more macho.

He has said that the justification is that it would be a kind of a deterrent factor where people who would otherwise think to do this might get turned off from doing such an act in the future. Of course, the logical counterpoint to that would be people who are shooting up army bases with a dozen soldiers. that they are killing, they are not of sound mind, so they're not making a logical calculation there. But Hegsef got this approved by Trump, and I think he is very in tune with the White House to try to please Trump and satisfy his desires. The U.S., others, are normally critical of other countries which hold public executions. Why is this different? Yeah, Trump has actually criticized the Iranian government for public executions. Even a couple months ago, he was saying, he was urging the Iranian government to not execute any of the protesters. And so obviously,

there's no question that this man committed this heinous act. But I should caveat this, that this may not even come to pass in December because Nidal Hassan may appeal this verdict, this decision. And in America, these court battles last. for a very long time. And so it could stretch into a future administration which would not want to execute by firing squad or by live stream. What's the American public going to make of this?

Would it be popular? I'm sure that there'd be some people who would want to watch it. I don't think the American news channels will carry it live, the CNN and MS Now's of America. But for a lot of Trump's base, it's young men who watch

Ultimate Fighting Championship, who liked seeing the UFC fight on the White House grounds. And so those people are very online, and I'm sure that this would get a good viewing, but it kind of satisfy the bloodlust of some Americans. But I don't think that's going to win many votes for Trump in November because people who are raw, raw about this, they would be voting for Trump anyway.

And this might turn off some of the more moderate people who would say that this is not proper. Last question. Is there an element of just, putting out a story like this in order that this becomes top of the news rather than some other things which are going on in the United States at present? That's definitely one idea where it's better for, in their view, to be talking about this than the economy or gas prices

or how the US may strike Iran again after the midterm elections. So you have to kind of view the term administration as this is almost like a reality show where every day there's a new episode and they want to have a new story that creates more attention. And they've been dogged this week by two of their top campaign operatives who went to the Balkans to work for a pro-Russian government

and they did not want that story out there and so it was not helping them. So this might change the narrative for a little bit. Daniel Lipman from Politico. Tensions between South Africans and migrants from other countries have escalated. Cars were set on fire in Soweto. in Johannesburg and at the Port City of Durban,

where shops owned by foreigners were targeted. Similar scenes were also witnessed in Cape Town and the Eastern Cape. Richard Hamilton reports. More than a dozen cars were set alight in Soweto after protests erupted into violence. Police dispersed protesters who'd stormed a refugee centre

where hundreds of asylum seekers had gathered to lodge appeals. It followed a ruling in July, the Constitutional Court, requiring the government to resume processing asylum applications. The clashes follow months of tensions with demonstrators demanding the deportation of foreigners living in South Africa illegally. In Durban, riot police were deployed to the city centre after reports that shops owned by foreign nationals were looted. Sepo and Posula is a community leader there. The disappointment actually, it is directed at this government. The government that does not listen to its people, people have been complaining

about the influx of foreigners in the country. And the government, instead of addressing the problem, you know, now there was this court judgment. And you'll remember that there were 600 million that was spent to monitor South Africans instead of addressing the issue of illegal migration. But the government said the violence was triggered by people spreading deliberately false information about the court ruling. It said the judgment did not automatically grant refugee status or permanent residence to undocumented migrants. In South Africa, migrants are often blamed for taking jobs,

fueling crime and putting a strain on public services. Claims that social scientists say are not supported by evidence. Three decades since the end of apartheid, the country remains deeply unequal, with about a third of the population out of work. Despite this, it remains Africa's largest economy and continues to attract workers from other parts of the continent. Richard Hamilton.

British police investigating the King's brother, Andrew Mountbatten, Windsor, have accepted that the warrants they used to search his homes earlier this year were unlawful. He was arrested by officers in February on suspicion of misconduct in public office, after which he launched a challenge over the legality of the warrants. The investigation in connection with his links to the late sex offender Geoffrey Epstein is ongoing.

The former prince has always denied any wrongdoing. Our correspondent Lucy Manning was in court and has this report. On the 19th of February, his 66th birthday, Andrew Mountbatten Windsor was arrested very publicly on suspicion of misconduct in public office. In the full glare of the media, Thames Valley Police searched the King's Brothers home at Sandringham and his former address, the Royal Lodge at Windsor. But at the High Court, it was revealed that in July, Thames Valley Police had accepted that the search warrants they had applied for and that an old Bailey judge had granted weren't lawful.

The judge in this hearing, Mr Justice Hilliard, who wasn't involved in granting the original warrants, said a significant error had been made in the application and granting of the warrants. They were found to be unlawful because confidential business material may have been gathered during the searches and that wasn't legally covered by the warrants issued. Nick Vamos is the former head of special crime at the Crown Prosecution Service. It's not actually that unusual in these kind of cases. The police don't have a great record of applying for search warrant. They often make mistakes, but this should have gone under so many noses before it went to court that it's really amazing that they still managed to make a basic error.

The police were reviewed several years ago and they changed their processes and it's embarrassing that they're still getting things wrong. Thames Valley Police agreed the warrants had been issued incorrectly by the court, but they still want to use the evidence gathered and have applied to the court to lawfully do so. Andrew Mountbatten Windsor opposes that. In a statement the force said its inquiries into him remain ongoing and Mr Justice Hilliard said the fact that the search warrants had been quashed didn't bring the investigation to an end or mean the whole of the investigation was unlawful. Joshua Rosenberg is a legal expert and says the police can apply under another part of the law to retain the evidence.

The investigation continues. The police have not had to give back the material they seized, written material, electronic material, we don't know the details of it. The reason for that is they can go back to court and say, we should have been able to get this under Section 9, we should have been entitled to this material, and we want to hang on to it until you sort it out. That's going to take some time.

In the meantime, they hang on to it and the investigation continues. Andrew Mountbatten-Winzer has always denied any wrongdoing in relation to Geoffrey Epstein. He has won this court victory, but his legal battle continues. Lucy Manning. The Canadian poet, writer and translator Anne Carson has won this year's Nobel Prize for Literature. The 76-year-old, who's written more than 20 books, was praised for her bold and inventive work. She's been living in Iceland for several years, and on Thursday, the country's national broadcaster, RUV, stopped her on a windy hillside and asked for her reaction to winning the prize.

Crazy. I think they're all crazy. Well, you know, it's crazy. Did you know beforehand or when did you receive the news yourself? No, just now. I mean, yeah, right now. You were on a call with the people from the Nobel Committee? Yes. What was the conversation like? Same as this, rather halting. They have, yeah, the usual questions and I have no answers.

Do you think this is in any way changes your readership? Well, I guess the publisher hopes so. Perhaps her most famous work is the novel Autobiography of Red. It recasts the Greek myth of Gerion, the red-winged monster killed by Heracles, as the tale of a modern teenage boy dealing with heartbreak and desire. Here's an extract read by Simon Russell Beale. It was 7 a.m.

Total agitation, possessed him. He had held off phoning Heracles for two days. Even now he was not looking at the telephone, which he'd placed in the bottom of his sock drawer. He was not thinking about the two of them in their hotel room on the other side of Plaza de Mayo. He was not remembering how Heracles liked to make love early in the morning, like a sleepy bear, taking the lid off a jar of honey. To reflect on Anne Carson's body of work and its impact, Jane Hill spoke to Alice Spalls, the co-editor of the London Review of Books, which has been publishing her work for the last 25 years. We're absolutely delighted. I mean, you know, these prizes come around every year,

and it's always exciting to see who the book is favourite is and to see who wins. But this is one of those years where I think a number of people are extremely happy with the decision. And, I mean, such an extraordinary range and an extraordinary body of work. So hard to summarize, I guess, but you are the person to do it. What makes her so special? What stands out in her work for you? Well, where to begin? I mean, genre defying doesn't really get close to it. She's genre destroying. I mean, there are no sort of formal borders in her work. There's a lot of recognisable poetry, but there's every other sort of form. And nearly always you'll find that she's subverting something. So any expectations that we bring to an Anne Carson piece,

whether it looks like a poem or a play or something else entirely, we're going to have them upset at some point for sure. I mean, she makes the classics hugely accessible, doesn't she? She does. And that has been her life's work as a classicist and a professor of Greek. But she goes beyond that as well because I really think she's a reader of world literature. She reads Chinese, Japanese, other poetry and translation. She's engaged with European philosophy with all sorts of literature.

So although the classics obviously speak in a very deep way to her and through her, I think she's kind of universalist in her attitude. And in the same spirit, we'll pick up a scrap of paper with a few words on her that she sees on the street and do something magical with that, just as she can with Homer. Goodness. I mean, for anyone who hasn't read her work, do you have recommendations as to a great place to start

or perhaps your own personal favourites? Well, I think one of the great things is you can't really go wrong because there is something so down to earth and unpretentious in everything she's written that if you're anxious about engaging with something very complicated and classical, you needn't fear. But I have a soft spot myself for her sonnets, her Duchamp sonnet and her Gertrudeau sonnet, which are just marvellous introductions to her thought and her engagement with the world, which can take the high and the low and make a place for them in poetry. And just the way she responded how she's been telling journalists,

oh, I was just sweeping the kitchen floor when I found out. I mean, that's someone who sounds quite down to earth to me. She certainly is, and I don't think, you know, she's not necessarily someone who wants the attention of a major prize, but for all of those who've been championing and admiring her work for so long, it's certainly well deserved. Alice Spall speaking to Jane Hill. Still to come in this podcast.

Rory, which one thing do movies always get wrong about space? Over. Good question, Rory. I would say how easy everything is. Nothing up here is easy. Everything is hard. The Scottish children speaking to the astronauts on the International Space Station

as they pass overhead. Growing businesses deal with the same problem. Too many tools, too much back and forth and not enough time. Odu helps bring it all together. It's an all-in-one business management platform. fully integrated from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing,

so your team can spend less time chasing information and focus on growth. Whether you're in retail, manufacturing, or service, O-Doo gives you one place to manage your business. Visit Odo.com to book a demo. It's O'D-O-O.com. Part of why I blew the whistle was I didn't want to lay in bed in 20 years, having seen another million people die, and know that I could have done something when I had a chance.

This week on the interface, we're talking to Francis. Howigan. The Facebook whistleblower who leaked the documents that changed how the world saw social media. And now she is the subject of Aaron Sorkin's latest movie, The Social Reckoning. So join me, Thomas Germain. And me, Jess Maddox, for the interface. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the Global News Podcast.

The technology giant Microsoft has become the latest company to be suspended from a key visa program that allows skilled foreign world. to get permanent resident status in America. announcing the government's decision, the U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance accused Microsoft of abusing the system and giving away American jobs. Microsoft laid off last year 6,000 American workers. At the same time, the company benefited from 6,300 H-1B visas

and almost 3,000 green cards. In other words, if you do the math, for every worker that Microsoft laid off, they replaced that worker with one and a half foreign indentured servants. Now that is a scandalous system that we've allowed in this country for far too long, but thanks to the work of this task force and thanks to the empowerment of the President of United States, we're going to stop it. We have decided to suspend the Perm program for Microsoft, which means they'll no longer be able to take those H-1Bs and apply for permanent resident status

within the United States of America. Microsoft says most of the relevant visa applications in the last fiscal year were for existing employees rather than to hire new workers. Our North America correspondent, Daniel Bush, told me more. Vice President J.D. Vance made the announcement for the Trump administration that Microsoft and other companies are abusing green card programs, the H-1B visa and J-1 visa programs in particular. These are programs that allow companies to recruit foreign workers and international students for highly specialized fields, such as technology, engineering and others. This is part of a longstanding argument by the Trump administration that these jobs should be going to American workers.

But supporters of these programs argue that they actually grow the U.S. economy and allow companies like Microsoft and others to fill these highly skilled jobs. Yeah, because Mr. Vance is suggesting that Microsoft laid off about 6,000 U.S. workers hired a similar number from overseas. But as you said, highly specialized, just because it laid some off, it doesn't mean that the people it had. are doing exactly the same thing or could do exactly the same thing. That's exactly right. And in fact, in a statement, Microsoft pushed back on the administration, said it would provide more information on its H-1B visa hires. But the company said that the vast majority of the thousands of employees

that hired through this program in the last fiscal year were not new hires. These were extensions of existing jobs. This announcement, of course, came just hours before President Trump awarded a prestigious medal to the Microsoft CEO, so awkward politics there. And of course, it also comes just a month or so before an election where the administration and Republicans running for Congress are trying to defend their immigration agenda, including numerous different restrictions to people trying to enter the United States legally. Yeah, as you've kind of hinted there, there's presumably an awful lot of politics going on here with immigration being a very big political issue. That's right. And the administration now has argued for months that these visas are being abused by these companies, that they're bad for the American economy. And it fits into the argument by President Trump, by J.D. Vance, that this America First agenda is intended to boost the American economy by prioritizing U.S. workers and by trying to ensure that those jobs do not go to people coming from overseas.

And it remains to be seen whether voters will buy it. And certainly polls show that although some Republicans still remain very supportive of President Trump's immigration agenda, it has lost a lot of support with Democrats and with some independent voters as well. Isn't it enormously expensive for companies to hire workers through these schemes? Now, presumably they don't do it unless they really need to because of the cost. That's right. It's costly. It's a time-consuming process. These are very highly specialized visa programs intended to recruit specific workers in science, technology, engineering jobs that these companies say are difficult to fill with those high-skilled workers inside the United States. So companies like Microsoft spend years building these programs up going through the work of the, the visa application process on behalf of these job recruits. So it's something that they invest a lot in and will likely push back, as Microsoft already has on the administration, to try and keep

these visas in place. Daniel Bush in Washington. Formula One is a multi-billion dollar business and nations battle over the right to hold the motorsport races. But for the last 33 years, there have been no Formula One races on the African continent at all. The last one took place in South Africa in the early 1990s. Several nations, including Nigeria, Morocco and South Africa have been bidding to bring the race back. But it looks like it will be Rwanda that joins the Formula One calendar in 2030. Africa sports correspondent Isaiah Akin Rimi told Nick Miles what seems to have raised Rwanda's bid above the competition. It's been confirmed that Rwanda will be hosting a Formula One race. And I think the reason why Rwanda was giving the Nordees, it looks like this country fit into a strategy.

You know, it has pursued for years because the Rwandan government have, you know, been using major international sporting events to change perceptions of the country and promote Kigali as a destination for tourism. So, you know, they are bringing sports into the country, you know, trying to sell, you know, the tourism sector, bring about international event and investment. and Rwanda hosted the FIA General Assembly and I was in Kigali, which is the head of Formula One. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The B. Business Sports Africa team, you know, covered in 2024, you know, which shows they are really interested in bringing F1 to Rwanda. And I think, you know, that has given them the edge over the likes of South Africa to be given this hosting right. Now, Rwanda is a relatively small country, particularly compared to South Africa. Is their confidence, do you think, that it has the wrong? infrastructure and the clout to host such a prestigious event?

Yes, motosport is really significant. For the first time also, the World Cycling Championship came to the continent of Africa last year, which Rwanda hosted. And, you know, we've seen Rwanda trying to build a new track to be able to give them this opportunity to show to the whole world that, you know, the Kuda, Oster the F1. And we've seen the likes of former champion, Louis Armitin and Max Vestappen, backing the African continent during that award and showing interest that it's time for Africa to host F1 again. And with what we've seen with Rwanda, they've been able to do with their partnership with

big European clubs like Arsenal, Paris and German. So it shows that this country looks ready to bring the circuit back to Africa after more than three decades. You talked about Rwanda trying to change perceptions about that country. Many people might see it as sports washing because Rwanda has a controversial reputation, accusations of human rights abuses, suppression of opposition groups. So this would be a controversial decision for it to host Formula One. Of course, it would be controversial.

The critics, you know, have really come out at on Rwanda. The last time, you know, they had sponsorship with us now. A lot of people believe, you know, this is pot-washing, you know, like you rightly said, deflecting the human rights issues that surround the country and they believe it's an opportunity to deflect this negative remarks. The BBC's Africa Sports correspondent, Isaiah Ack and Rimi. When Jonathan the giant tortoise originally hatched from his egg, the naturalist Charles Darwin was still a young man

and Britain's future Queen Victoria was a teenager. Scientists were yet to establish that germs caused diseases and the discovery of the structure of DNA was more than a century away. But at the ripe old age of 194, Jonathan is still plodding along on the lawn of the Governor's House on the remote South Atlantic Island of St Helena. Researchers now believe the world's oldest living land animal

could potentially also help humans to live longer lives. Here's some archive footage of a BBC radio program about the island in which the resident vet, Joe Hollins, introduces us to Jonathan. I'm just walking down through the paddock now. Beautiful day.

And sometimes I can't find Jonathan immediately because he tends to tuck himself away. And I think this is him down here. Here he is. Big old fella. A 300 pound. Krusty old reptile. I'm very, very fond of.

He's already coming towards me because he knows that I mean food. Hi, fella. Here you go. It's tucking into some cabbage here. Very fleshy, almost mammalian tongue. and a long reptilian neck, very much like a snake. It's thought that one of the secrets to Jonathan's extreme longevity

is what's known as mitochondria. That's part of a cell that is responsible for briding living creatures with energy. Stephen Clark is the senior researcher on the project, which has been studying Jonathan's DNA. He told Owen Bennett Jones, first, how we know the age of the tortoise. There was a photograph that was taken back in 1882 that we were being able to validate. In that photograph, he was fully grown,

so we've been able to estimate his hatch state based on that. I see, I thought you're going to tell me it was like a tree with rings, but it isn't like that. It's just very lucky that you got the evidence in this case. Yeah, we're very lucky in that regard, because if we didn't have a photograph, we wouldn't be able to really place this age, for sure. Okay, and you've examined this tortoise's genetic code.

What did you find? We found the normal corporates that we expected, and he had lots of mutations and genes and pathway, but the thing that was kind of most surprising for us is it looks like he's kept his mitochondrial, the organelles and the cells that produce energy. He's kept those really young. They're comparable to a five-year-old tortoise. So he's got brilliant mitochondria, and those are the cells that have enabled him to live long.

So they just haven't degenerated. Is that what you're saying? That's right. When you look at the rest of his genes, they look very old. But when you look at the mitochondrial genes, they're very pristine and very similar to the five-year-old tortoise we compared him to. So why would that happen? That's the million-dollar question, right? That's part of the next step, trying to figure out why.

Are you aware of any other sort of experiment that has discovered that an aged animal, including humans, has got well-preserved mitochondria? No, but we've noticed over time in humans that mitochondrial dysfunction happens. So we've known that there's a decline in function of mitochondria with age in humans. Good luck to the tortoise, of course, but the hope will be that this could help humans live longer. Is that the idea? That's right. So the next part of our nonprofit is to look for targets to go after it.

and in this case go after the mitochondria and see if we can make even mitochondria, you know, younger. Reptile expert Stephen Clark. In any schools around the world, it's common for people with interesting careers to be invited in to tell the kids about what they do. But for one type of job, coming in to inspire the kids is not an option. So astronaut Joshua Kudrick was beamed in from the International Space Station when he was over the town of WIC in the very north of Scotland. He was within range for just 10 minutes, and the children were able to ask him questions as he hurtled at 27,500 kilometres an hour above their heads. Here's some of their conversation. This is Rory. Which one thing do movies always get wrong about space? Over.

Good question, Rory. I would say how easy everything is. Nothing up here is easy. Everything is hard. You've been brushing your teeth, and they gloss over a lot of the small points. This is Florence, how does the food taste in space compared to here on Earth? Over? Florence, because the microgravity affects your sinuses, everything tastes a little bit different, sometimes good, sometimes bad. For me, I love coffee on planet Earth, but up here it tastes a little bit different. It doesn't taste quite like coffee to me, and that's causing me to not drink so much.

This is Fergus. What experiment were you most excited to work on? over. I'm working on a lot of experiments that are designed to enable astronauts to live in space for longer periods of time. So someday, maybe on the moon for, say, a year. But we have a lot of science we have to figure out first, and that's some of what we're working on up here that I enjoy, over. This is Isabella. Do astronauts get space sick like getting car sick? Over. Isabella, great question. We typically get sick at the start of the missions as we adapt to microgravity. So it's like a couple of days of basically being car sick over.

Joshua Kutra getting a gentle grilling from pupils from Wic High School in Scotland. Before we go. Hello, I'm Celia Hatton, one of the presenters of the Global News podcast, and I'm coming to you with a little request. Next week, we're making a special edition of the podcast along with the AmeriCast team, and we're going to be looking at unusual U.S. election vocabulary, the words and phrases that seem to pop up around election time, terms like purple state or stump speech. If you have any words or phrases you'd like to add to our list, please send them over to us in an email or a voice message. It's the usual address, Global Podcast at BBC.co.com. Thanks. And bye-bye.

And that's all from us. For now, if you want to get in touch, you can email us at Global podcast at BBC.co.com. You can also find us on X at BBC World Service. Use the hashtag Global NewsPod. And don't forget our sister podcast, The Global Story, which goes in depth and beyond the headlines on one big story. This edition of the Global News podcast was mixed by Darcy Obrie and the producer was Rebecca Wood. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Alex Ritson and Until next time, goodbye. Part of why I blew the whistle was I didn't want to lay in bed in 20 years. Having seen another million people die,

and know that I could have done something when I had a chance. This week on The Interface, we're talking to Frances Howigan. The Facebook whistleblower who leaked the documents that changed how the world saw social media. And now she is the subject of Aaron Sorkin's latest movie, The Social Reckoning. So join me, Thomas Germain. And me, Jess Maddox, for The Interface. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your book. podcasts.