Global News Podcast - Zelensky: Ukraine needs a 'dignified peace'

Episode Date: November 21, 2025

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has said he will speak to Donald Trump in the coming days about the new peace deal put forward by the US. Mr Trump's plan includes significant concessions to be made by Kyiv. What is his strategy with this provocative proposal? Also: Schools have been closed in parts of Nigeria after a new wave of attacks and abductions. Spain's attorney general has been found guilty of leaking confidential information about the boyfriend of a leading politician. And the old VCR gathering dust in your basement could be worth good money at auction.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. It's the coziest time of year on Britbox. Very cozy. That means basking in the ambience. Oh, no, the body's turned up. How often do people get murdered around here? Unboxing the unexpected. Well, we know it wasn't an accident.

And starting new traditions. I see you telling me to behave myself. Oh, shut up. Stream Britbox's original series based on best-selling novels, including Linley and a new season of Karen Piri. Smashing, smushy, breakie. It's all a bit warm. with Britbox. See holidays differently when you stream the best of British TV with Britbox.

America is changing. And so is the world. But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere. I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. I'm Tristan Redman in London. And this is the global story. Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection, where the world and America meet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Keith Adams, and in the early hours of Friday, the 21st of November, these are our main stories. President Zelensky says he'll discuss the US proposed peace plan to end the Ukraine war with President Trump in the coming days.

A diplomatic row between the U.S. and South Africa has intensified ahead of the G20 summit this weekend. Schools have been closed in Nigeria's western Quora state after an attack by gunman. Also in this podcast, the official advice on vaccines changes in the U.S., but it's controversial. To have this on a CDC website is actually pretty shocking. We're going to see a drop in vaccination rates, which will cost lives. And Spain's Attorney General has been found guilty of leaking confidential information. In the last edition of the podcast, we reported that Donald Trump had introduced a new 28-point plan to end the war between Russia and Ukraine. The details of that plan have not been officially confirmed, but it's believed to call for significant concessions from Ukraine, including limits on the size of its military, and the surveillance.

surrender of some territory to Moscow. President Zelensky has now seen the proposal. He said he'll speak to Donald Trump in the coming days. But in his nightly address, he said that Ukraine's priorities had not changed. Since the first days of the war, we have taken one extremely simple position. Ukraine needs peace. And the real peace, one that will not be broken by a third invasion, a dignified peace. so that the conditions respect our independence, our sovereignty and the dignity of the Ukrainian people.

We must ensure these very conditions. Russia occupies about 20% of Ukrainian territory, and President Zelensky has repeatedly ruled out giving up any land as part of a deal. So what is the U.S. strategy here? That's a question I put to the BBC State Department correspondent Tom Bateman. As this has been reported in terms of a 28-point plan that appears to have been stitched together following meetings between Mr Trump's envoy, Steve Wyckoff, also including Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State and Vladimir Putin's envoy, a man called Kirill Demetriev, who was in Miami with Steve Wickoff about three weeks ago

where they had quite extensive discussions, that this plan is now the latest terms of reference, if you like, that the White House is putting together. the White House spokeswoman Caroline Levitt confirmed that there is a plan and that President Trump supported it, although she said that it was ongoing and it's still being worked on. And she was pressed quite hard on the way in which this plan appears to be heavily tilted towards Moscow. But she did also say that President Trump have become increasingly frustrated with both countries. But it appears as though they're going to try to put more pressure on the Ukrainians

to shift on what have always been President Zelenskyy, the Europeans' red lines. The noises that we've been getting out of the US administration, though, Trump seemed to be more critical of Putin recently. Was all that noise meaningless? Well, I think you have to remember that Mr Trump has ebbed and flowed throughout the course of the last 11 months on all of this. And there has never been this very tough concessions demanded of Russia

that there have been at various points of Ukraine. There's never been the fundamental breakdown in relations between Washington and Moscow that there has been actually between Washington and Kiev over the course of all this. We saw a moment a few weeks ago where President Trump had a phone call

with Vladimir Putin. He said after that that they would hold a summit in Budapest in Hungary. This would be the second such summit after one they had in Alaska in August. It was then a phone call between Marco Rubio,

the Secretary of State and Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, at which it appeared that things then broke down. And my sense from that, was the Americans were putting their foot down because they felt the Russians wouldn't move and they couldn't make progress in terms of getting any concessions from the Russians.

So there was sort of a block put on any high-level discussions between Washington and Russia at that point. And now suddenly we have a shift back. What it says to me is Mr. Trump is not very interested in detail. We know that. He tends to give his envoys a strategic objective or a goal, a deliverable. And in this one, it's just he wants an end to the war. And so I think we're seeing a kind of repetition which involves Steve Wittkoff and a similar pattern we've had for quite a while where Mr. Wittkoff tends to listen to the

Russian demands, then think there is progress, brief them to the president. And Mr. Trump says, okay, you've got my backing. And then they go to the Ukrainians and realize it's not going to work. But the question is now, is there enough frustration and irritation, as it was put, frustration in terms of the way the White House has phrased it, that Mr. Trump is now just going to finally try and sort of ram this onto the Ukrainians. But that would be seen as an absolute disaster by the Europeans because they will see this as conceding the principle

that you can just invade another country, not just get to keep the territory that you have occupied, but also take even more. What about Mr Zelensky then? Does he have any options now, do you think? Is there any wiggle room for Ukraine? Well, the options are to keep fighting a war. What the Europeans have been trying to do at times, I think,

privately aghast at the Trump administration's approach, is to try to shore up the Ukrainians in terms of weapons supply because that is no longer coming directly from the Americans. So they've come up with this system of NATO buying American weapons and then feeding them to the Ukrainians. But, you know, they've been losing ground. And that, of course, is the great risk and the calculation that Mr. Zelensky has to take.

Plus, he's got these political problems at the moment with a corruption scandal that's erupted around him in Ukraine. if they lose American backing, they have a fundamental problem. And that's something that Mr Zelensky, I think, has always understood. But this may be now a moment where they are left with little choice. But I think we have to see how the negotiations are going to play out over the next few days. And, you know, the White House were stressing that this is still fluid and that they're talking to both sides.

That was Tom Bateman talking to me. Well, one of the low points in the relationship between the US and Ukraine came at the start of the year at that extraordinary meeting in the Oval Office when President Trump called President Zelensky disrespectful and told him he had no cards to play in the peace talks. Three months later, in a moment described by some as a repeat of the Zelensky meeting, Mr Trump hosted the South African President Cyril Ramaphosa at the White House, and once again he aired his grievances in front of the cameras,

this time claiming black South Africans were killing large numbers of white farmers. them to take land. Nobody can take the land. And then when they take the land, they kill the white farmer. And when they kill the white farmer, nothing happens to them. No. There is quite, nothing happens to them. There is criminality in our country. People who do get killed, unfortunately, through criminal activity, are not only white people. The majority of them are black people. And we have now the farmers are black. The farmers are not black. Well, the diplomatic rail between the two countries has now intensified ahead of the G20 summit in Johannesburg this weekend. President Ramaphosa is refusing to hand over the presidency of the G20

to the U.S. Sharjade Affairs as planned. Our BBC Africa correspondent, Mayenne Jones, told my colleague Anka Desai what's going on. The US had said a couple of weeks ago that it would not be sending any representatives to this weekend's leader summit for the G20, which is this gathering of the world's biggest economy. But at the very last minute, on Thursday evening, during a press conference, a joint press conference between the EU and South Africa, President Cyril Ramaphosa said he'd actually received a letter from the US, suggesting that they might want to engage in some way with the summit.

Now, it wasn't clear exactly in what way. It turns out that the US was proposing sending a local representative. It hasn't got an ambassador in South Africa, so he was going to send a Chargerid Affair and seven other diplomatic staff members. and they said that they wouldn't be taking part in any of the discussions of the G20. They'd just be there for the handover ceremony because the U.S. is the next president of the G20. South Africa responded to this initially by saying that, yes, they would try and accommodate this request, but then a clip surface showing a spokesperson for the White House accusing President Cyril Ramaphosa of running his mouth. That is a direct quote when he mentioned this.

And so as a response, South Africa has now said that they will not be handing over. the presidency of the G20 to a Sharjid affair. So it's not really clear what happens next. Okay, and this is also part of a wider spat, which took place a few months ago when Sir Ramposa visited Donald Trump in the White House and the Oval Office in front of the world's media. Relations between the two countries have really been deteriorating pretty fast.

Over the past year, the US used to be one of South Africa's main Western partners, but over the last year, they've really fallen out. And that's because President Donald Trump has repeated widely discredited claims that there is a genocide of South Africa's white minority. He's offered them asylum. They're the only minority

group who is entitled to asylum currently in the US. And he's also expelled South Africa's ambassador. He's cut aid. He's imposed tariffs. South Africa in response has tried to remain diplomatic. Try to say that they're inviting the US to come

over to South Africa and to realize that there isn't a white genocide here. But the recent events suggest that this relationship is not getting much better. And just also outlined the optics of why it's so important, this G20 summit, but also the handover process as well. So the G20 was set up over 20 years ago, and its presidency rotates every year. And this is the first time that an African country is getting this presidency.

So it's seen as hugely significant. And so South Africa was really hoping that it could use this opportunity to champion things like cheaper loans for African countries. They wanted to champion things like climate change financing, push forward ways for which African countries could get more bang for their buck, for their critical minerals. But instead, they found themselves talking increasingly about their fraught relationships with the US.

And you can sense growing frustration on the part of Pretoria with the status quo. And this evening statement seems to indicate that they may be reaching their limits. Mayenne Jones. President Trump has been accused of provoking political violence after a social media post in which he appeared to suggest that some Democrat members of Congress should face the death penalty

for comments they made in an online video. Our North America editor, Sarah Smith, reports. Seditious behavior, punishable by death, President Trump wrote on social media in response to a call from Democrat politicians urging the U.S. military to disobey orders that are unlawful. Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders. You can refuse illegal orders.

You must refuse illegal orders. Six Democrats, who are all military veterans, released a video saying that some of the orders coming from the Trump administration are threats to the Constitution. This administration is pitting our uniform military and intelligence community professionals against American citizens. Americans trust their military. That trust is at risk. They have recently proposed legislation in Congress aimed at limiting the president's deployment of the National Guard in major cities like Los Angeles, Washington and Chicago. Donald Trump posted on social media saying this is really bad and dangerous to our country. And in capital letters, seditious behaviour from traitors lock them up, question mark.

Followed by another post saying that behaviour is punishable by death. Democrat leaders in Congress have said the president must delete these posts and recant his violent rhetoric before he gets someone killed. Sarah Smith in Washington, the White House press secretary Caroline Levitt, was asked about President Trump's post. Here's what she said. Just to be clear, does the president want to execute members of Congress? No. Let's be clear about what the president is responding to,

because many in this room want to talk about the president's response, but not what brought the president to responding in this way. You have sitting members of the United States Congress who conspired together to orchestrate a video message to members of the United States military to active duty service members, to members of the national security apparatus, encouraging them to defy the president's lawful orders. Caroline Levitt. Schools are closed in Nigeria's Western Quar Estate and five other areas

after gunmen attacked a church on Tuesday. On Monday, more than 20 girls were abducted from a boarding school in Kebby State to the north. The heightened concerns over insecurity in Nigeria come amid claims, President Trump that Christians are being persecuted there. The BBC's Chris Iwocker has been monitoring the story. Dateline Monday around 3am, gunmen in large numbers invaded government girls' comprehensive secondary school. They fired sporadic shorts, went to the dormitory and abducted 25 students.

Staff and security guards tried to stop them. They were short. one died instantly. The other at the hospital. A resident described what happened. They went straight to the school security master's house. The youngest among them was the one who shot him. He shot him on the chest.

Then they proceeded to the girls' hostel and they shot the elderly man guarding the girls' hostel. I have never seen anything like this. Why would someone kidnap girls as young as 11? Gryps hang heavy over the home of Mariam Galadine. not her real name to protect her identity. Her family has suffered a multiple tragedy, one that painfully captures the human cost of the worsening insecurity gripping rural communities in Nigeria.

Three devastating things happened to my family. First, they killed my father. He is the security guard man in the school gate. I met him in his pool of blood. Then they took my daughter and also my granddaughter. Miriam's 13-year-old daughter, Meru, and 12-year-old granddaughter, Rabi, names changed for their safety were both taken. Families are in great despair, desperate for information about their daughters.

Two of the abducted girls managed to escape, but 23 others are still in captivity. On social media, the hashtag bring back cabby girls are now trending, a stark reminder of the nearly 300 Chibok school girls abducted over 10 years ago. Nearly 100 of them remain missing. Barely 24 hours after the Kirby School Girls kidnapped, gunmen struck again in central Nigeria. They stormed across Apostolic Church during an evening service, shooting some people and rounding up worshippers. A video clip believed to be from the church's live stream cameras have circulated widely online. A member of the church tells the BBC, two people were killed and several others injured.

It was around 6 p.m. We started hearing gunshots. Our security guard tried to repel them, but they got into the church, opened fire, and abducted some people. There were about 30 gone men. The church assault has triggered frustration and anger across Nigeria. Many have voiced outrage on social media over what they describe as unrelenting wave of insecurity that continues to batter rural communities, schools and transport routes. That was Chris Iwaka. Still to come, who needs AI?

Why? We don't get the same sort of feeling from tapping on our smartphone as we do as the click-clack of a tie-priter and all these fantastic old things. Why old tech is now big money. America is changing. And so is the world. But what's happening in America isn't just the cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere. I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. I'm Tristan Redman in London, and this is the global story. Every weekday will bring you a story from this intersection, where the world and America meet.

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. An edit on the website of the U.S. Centers for Disease and Control and Prevention, the has sparked concern that Donald Trump's health secretary, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., is spreading vaccine misinformation through government channels. The Public Health Agency's site previously said that studies showed there was no link between vaccines and developing autism. This has changed to say that studies haven't ruled it out. Sources at the CDC told the BBC's US partner, CBS News, that the edits were ordered by political appointees at the US Department. of health. Dr. Fiona Havers worked for the CDC, leading the team that collects COVID-19 and other infectious diseases data. She resigned in June in protest at Mr. Kennedy's order to change

vaccine recommendations. Dr. Havers expressed her fears about the CDC's new language. To have this on a CDC website is actually pretty shocking. What we do know is that routine immunizations are safe, they're effective and they're the best tools we have for keeping both adults and children healthy. And RFK Jr. forcing CDC to put this kind of information on the website is going to further scare parents, scare people, and we're going to see a drop in vaccination rates, which will cost lives. Our North America correspondent, Sean Dilley, says that one Republican isn't comfortable with what's happened. Interestingly, there is still the heading, despite its new position which flies in the face of all medical and scientific studies on the topic. But it still says there is no link between autism and the vaccines. And the website explains, that's because there was a deal done between essentially Bill Cassidy.

He's a medical doctor. He's a senator from Louisiana and he heads Senate's health committee. And he has tweeted afterwards about the change in the position saying that any statements of the contrary in relation to vaccines being essentially not linked, actively puts the lives of Americans in essentially at greater health risk. And this revised language is quite strong, isn't it? It's quite confusing. Accusing health authorities of ignoring some research and suggesting a reassertive. assessment. Yeah, it kind of echoes very closely the health secretary, Roberts Kennedy Jr's words.

In the past, he said he has no issues with vaccines, but he's certainly a skeptic that can't really be denied. So, you know, it's a complete 180 on where they were before. So broadly speaking, the major study that would sort of have backed up the new position was from 1998 in relation to a link between vaccines and autism. But that was withdrawn after it was discredited. So the CDC had previously relied on another study that it performed itself from 2013 showing that there was no link. The World Health Organization says that there is no link. And one of the spokespeople sort of questioning the change in advice had pointed to 40 separate bits of research showing there is no link. And obviously Bill Cassidy, that medical doctor from the Senate Health Committee, absolutely sort of stark language where he's saying that it directly puts the health of Americans at risk.

Spain's Attorney General has been found guilty of leaking confidential information about the boyfriend of a leading politician. Alvaro Garcia Ortiz has been banned from his post for two years and fined $8,000. The case has divided Spain along political lines. Our correspondent Guy Hedgeco filed this report from Madrid. This is unprecedented in that an attorney general has never gone trial before, let alone being convicted. So that is significant. But Alvaro Garcia Ortiz was accused of leaking this information regarding the tax status of Alberto Gonzalez-Amador, the boyfriend of a senior conservative Madrid politician, Isabel Diathayuso. And throughout the trial, Alvaro Garcia-Ortiz denied that he had been the source of a leak to the press regarding

this tax case. And yet, he has been found guilty of it. it. He insisted that there was no evidence directly linking him to this. All the evidence was circumstantial. And yet he has been convicted. So this is seen as a significant case, partly because what it means for the Attorney General having to stand out, but obviously it also affects the Prime Minister as well. And Pedro Sanchez has been under quite a lot of pressure already in recent months, partly because of other judicial cases against people close to him. His brother is going on trial for alleged influence peddling. And there are a number of other investigations affecting him and his party as well. So this is very bad news for the Prime Minister.

That was Guy Hedgeko. The British government is changing the rules for migrants who come to the UK legally and it means that some people could have to wait for 20 years to apply for permanent status in the country. The new rules will apply to migrants already in the UK as well as those who arrive in the future. Our political correspondent, Harry Farley has the details. The basic qualifying period will increase from five years to 10 and new tougher conditions will be required, including paying tax in the form of national insurance for at least three years, having a clean criminal record and speaking English to a high standard. That 10-year weight could be reduced under these proposals if, for example, you work at a senior

level in public services like the NHS, you're on a global talent visa, or if you pay higher rates of tax. But the 10 years could also be delayed by up to another 10 years if migrants have claimed benefits. The Home Secretary said the system would change settlement from being quick and automatic to one that requires contribution and integration. We have achieved cohesion because different communities have integrated, retaining their distinction within a single pluralistic whole. This makes demands of those already here. to remain open to newer arrivals. But more than that, it demands something of those arriving. To settle in this country forever is not a right, but a privilege, and it must be earned.

Crucially, this will apply not just those arriving in future, but those already here, who don't yet, have settled status. There will be questions around fairness, particularly for those who came to the UK under the low-skilled health and care visa after 2021, and expected to qualify for permanent status as soon as next year. They are singled out and will have to wait 15 years for the chance to apply for settlement. But Miss Mahmood's argument is one of necessity, that divisions in the country have been fuelled by a pace and scale of migration that is putting pressure on communities and it needs tackling.

Harry Farley reporting. Now, for a touch of nostalgia, in today's increasingly digital world, there seems to be a growing interest in items from a simpler analogue age. Think record players, typewriters, film cameras, old computers, early digital watches and some of those first chunky mobile phones. They're all fetching good money online and at auction. Kaylee Davis, a collectible specialist from the online auction house auction net, has been telling us about the appeal of yesterday's gadgets.

It's a trend with seeing across all sorts of collectibles, as you mentioned, We're seeing people want to collect final records, people are even turning back to VHS tapes because we're in this age, this digital age, and we don't get the same sort of feeling from tapping on our smartphone as we do as the click-clack of a typewriter and all these fantastic old things. You bog standard typewriter isn't going to make a great deal of money, but there are some really interesting quirky curiosities, alternate layouts of keyboards and unusual models. We sold one last year for £29,000. because it's just an unusual model and people want.

It gives you a glimpse of an alternate reality where we'd never had the quietie keyboard and we have these bizarre layouts and it's this intersection between collectors who love tech, collectors who love design and collectors who love scientific instruments. So although it sounds quite niche, there's quite a broad collecting market for that kind of thing. Kaylee Davis, I mean, that old stuff I have to agree,

it just looks a lot cooler, doesn't it? And that's all from us for now, but there will be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is Global Podcast at BBC.co.com. You can also find us on X, BBC World Service, using the hashtag Global NewsPod. This edition was mixed by Massoud Ibrahim Heel, and produced by Peter Goffin and Wendy Erhardt. The editor is Karen Martin.

I'm Keith Adams. Until the next time, goodbye.