God Awful Movies - 543: Hell and Mr. Fudge

Episode Date: February 10, 2026

Cara Santa Maria joins us for an atheist review of Hell and Mr. Fudge, another one of those "based on a true story" movies about a bunch of inscrutable church drama that makes no sense to people standing outside the religion.To see us (including Cara!) live in San Francisco, click here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/god-awful-movies-live-in-san-francisco-california-tickets-1976632374642Check out more from Cara on the Talk Nerdy podcastIf you’d like to make a per episode donation and get monthly bonus episodes, please check us out on Patreon: http://patreon.com/godawfulCheck out our other shows, The Scathing Atheist, The Skepticrat, Citation Needed, and D&D Minus.Our theme music is written and performed by Ryan Slotnick of Evil Giraffes on Mars. If you’d like to hear more, check out their Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/EvilGiraffesOnMars/Report instances of harassment or abuse connected to this show to the Creator Accountability Network here: https://creatoraccountabilitynetwork.org/

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Yes, exactly. I've been playing for 10 long. I've read the dungeon master's guide four times, so I know how dragons really. Fuck. God-awful movies. Welcome back to the Gamecast,

where each week we sample another selection from Christian cinema because we had no choice. I'm your host, Noah Lusions. Heath is off this week, so I guess he had a choice, but sitting 900 miles to my northeast is my bad friend, Eli Bosnick.

Eli, how are you this fine afternoon, sir? I'm fantastic, Noah, excited to be back in the world of the absolutely wrong. I don't believe you about being excited for this one. I'm sorry to say. But I am excited to welcome back the person I'm proud to call our favorite guest

masochist when Marsh isn't listening. The host of the Talk Nerdy podcast, Kara, Santa Maria. Kara, welcome back. Yeah, no, we earned it. We totally earned that one. You like, yeah, I got a couple good ones in a row recently, but now we're back to utter dog shit.

Yeah. I almost wrote long pause sigh into the notes after I So tell us, Carol, what will we be breaking down today? Okay, it's a film called Hell and Mr. Fudge, which, side note, they gave us a better title multiple times in the film when they said the gospel according to Fudge. Yeah. Which should have been the name of the movie, but we'll put a pin in that. Way better. Okay, it's a film called Hell and Mr. Fudge.

It's about a guy who can't decide what decade it is. So he spends a lot of time reading. Like a lot. Like, I guess ostensibly this movie is about him trying to prove that there's no hell. But he just does it by reading. Yeah. It's like watching an hour and a half of a dude reading. It's the least compelling movie I've ever seen.

Well, again, it's the least compelling movie about the least compelling argument. We'll talk about it a second. Yeah. Yeah. Right, right. So, and also, like, the title teases you with so much. I was expected a buddy cop movie, right? Oh, yeah.

So, Eli, how bad was this movie? Well, if you've cast away the barbaric and sadistic idea of hell, and you'd like to hear the life story and tribulations of a guy who was this close to getting it, you will love this movie. I feel about Edward Fudge the way I feel about Pizza Gate theorists, right? It's like, oh, guys, you were so close. You just got the names wrong. Right.

Yes. Oh, yeah. I feel like I owe them a little bit of an apology. I was like, there was a big cabal. All right, so is anything you guys want to nominate this one for being the best, of being the worst hat?

Oh, yeah, yeah. Best worst 40-year-old college student. Amazing. Grace eyed burns. No fucking effort to young this guy up whatsoever except to put him in jeans. It was amazing. All right.

I was going to go with best worst page counts. So multiple times in this movie we're going to be presented with somebody's reading material and it will be comically tiny. We'll get to it when we get to it. And of course, we tease this earlier, but I'm going to go with best, worst, nerd fight, right? Because this is not a fight about whether or not hell exists. This is not a fight about whether or not God exists. This is a fight about whether God punishes you for not believing in his son by tossing your soul away like a used cigarette wrapper or burning it for,

It is the fucking who would win in a child rape, Superman or bass man. All right. All right. There's a lot of exciting reading to get to on the other side of this break, so we're going to keep it brief. And when we come back, we'll dive into all the riveting studying of hell and Mr. Fudge. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

Okay, what if I keep it simple? Just happy Valentine's Day. You're welcome for loving you. awful. How is that awful? It's about you again. Hey, guys. You ready to record the podcast? One second, Noah. Kara's helping me with my Valentine's Day card. You offered to help with Eli's Valentine's Day card? No. Eli said, can you look at this? It is an emergency. It was an emergency, Kara, a love emergency. You know, Eli, no matter this season, there's always one person you can show love to. Hammett, Mehta. No, yourself. And there's no better way to do it.

it than therapy. Therapy? I thought therapy was just for people who go, bidi-da-da-da-da-da-da-d-d-d-d-l-l-d-l-d. No, Eli. Therapy's a great way to take care of your mind in the same way we take care of our bodies. When you came over today,

I was eating Pillsbury cookie dough out of the tube with my mouth around it. Yeah, well, okay, some people take care of their bodies. And if you're thinking giving therapy a try, you should try online therapy with BetterHelp. What's BetterHelp? BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you, so you can focus on your therapy.

A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and their 12 plus years of experience and industry leaving match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recommendations. That sounds great, Noah, but I won't buy anything without at least a 9% discount. Well, that's okay too. Sign up now and get 10% off at betterhelp.com slash awful. That's better H-E-L-P.com slash awful.

All right, Noah, I'm sold. Oh, how about this? Roses are red, violets are blue. I bet your friends are jealous of you. You're welcome. I mean, at least that one rhymed. Nice. All right, everyone, welcome to the first ever writer's room meeting for our new project.

Woo! Yeah. So I was thinking we'd do a movie about how slavery was really bad in Cuba. Oh, man, I want to do a movie about how it's bad to murder orphans. Guys, those are both a really weird idea. What? No, they're not. Yes, they are. Like, murder and slavery are bad no matter where they are and who they do them to. I'm not so sure about that. Okay, so I'm supposed to have zero slaves?

Yes. Okay, okay, listen. How about we write a movie about Edward Fudge? Hmm. Who's he? Well, he believed that hell isn't forever. It's just a big fire that kills your soul. Oh, I love it. What a moral. I thought you guys might lack that. So stupid. And we're back for the breakdown. We're going to open up on that harbinger of quality,

the Bridgestone Media Group logo. Yeah. So, okay, so we're going to open on a church in Denton, Texas. You guys. Yes. Denton, Texas. This is like where I went to college, where I went to grad school.

Oh, you're an eagle? Yeah. Like, I was born and raised in Plano, Texas. Oh, right on. And then drove up to Denton at their golden triangle. And so, like, I had this moment at the beginning. First of all, I was like, please don't ruin Denton, Texas for me. But then, like, whatever.

But the rest of Texas did that? Yeah. And also, they don't reference that they're in debt at the rest of the time. Second. They never mentioned your favorite restaurant to hang out in college? No. They don't talk about cool beings. You're in the background of a couple of scenes.

There's no Jupiter House. There's none of that. Anyway, they also all-star. talking in this scene. And I'm like, I literally said, those don't sound like Texas accents. That sounds like straight up rural Alabama. Next scene, they're all from rural fucking Alabama.

Yeah, they are. Yeah, so we're getting. They just commuted to Denton. Nailed it. Yep. They were afraid of Jupiter House. They all ate at Denny's. Denton is very liberal for this group,

for sure. Denton is like the Austin of North Texas. Oh, there you go. I'd be sure that folks in Denton are very proud of that. We are. Fuck, kick. San Maria, you get it. You guys, what else

was filmed in Denton? Oh, the square is in Rocky Horror. Oh, right on. There you go. Yeah, you know, the old-timey-looking square. Yeah. So, okay. So we're in Denton, Texas, this 1882, guys about to go on stage, and he's quite nervous about it. And then

we get the words come up, this is based on a true story. Now, what that means in Christian movie speak is either somebody, quote, unquote, went to heaven or nothing is going to happen at all and this is a movie about church drama. This one will be the latter. A hundred percent. It's the latter, baby.

Yeah. I wrote that my notes as soon as that came up before I had any idea what the fuck this movie was. Also, just for the record, they have to lie tremendously about what Edward Fudge actually thought for as much to happen as this in this movie as actually does happen. And nothing happens in this movie. Nothing happens. It's incredible.

Yeah. It's a movie about nothing. It's a movie about nothing. reading. Remember that every time we give you plot points, that they are couched in just reading. That's all that happens in this movie. There are four different reading montages in this movie. At least four different ones. I can think of four different ones now. And the rest of the time, he's still reading. Yeah. Right. Right. People are just talking to him while he reads. Yeah. So okay. So then we get, we cut to eight years earlier and we're getting like a reality show confessional thing.

There's a guy making a documentary about this dude. Elmer Fudge. It wasn't Elmer. What was his name? Edward. Edward. They're making it too fucking hard on me here. Also, there's no reason

for this to be the fucking framing of the movie. As far as I could tell, there wasn't ever a documentary about Edward Fudge, right? As far as I could tell, him being filmed never had anything significant

to do with his life. It was like when they sat in the writer's room, they were like, well, why would there be a camera? And it's like, well, in the movie, there's not a camera. And this is the point in time where I'm already very confused about chronology. So it starts, as you mentioned, in 1982, but it's black and white. Because they're on some film camera.

The documentary camera. Yeah, the documentary camera. And then they cut to eight years earlier. So now it's the mid-70s. And for some reason, it's sepia. Yes. And they're all wearing modern clothing. And we're about to drop back into the 50s in just a fucking second.

It's so nuts. Yeah. It's so nuts. And he wears glasses from the 50s the whole film. So you never know what year it is. He'll be in college at one point in a flashback and then they never take him out of college. His life just continues. We are, for those keeping track, four doodily do's deep by the end of the movie.

Right. So the title shows up. Helen, Mr. Fudge. It is in three different fonts. None of which are the fonts that have been used in the credits so far, if you're wondering. No. But now he's going to tell us about his daddy, and his daddy had himself a radio show back in 1954. So we flashback now.

We're two minutes and 42 seconds in. We've already lost 28 years to two flashbacks. I wrote it in my notes. I get this right by the end of the fucking movie, it's going to be about a primordial amoeba. So we've got, and like the actor, the main actor is nailing this Alabama accent. and almost no one else in the movie is. Everybody else sounds like when we make Marsh do a Texas accent or something.

Yes. Everyone else is my mental picture of Southern people, right? Just, hirker, burq, dark, dark, close enough. I hate that, like, all of these actors are like, actors I've seen before. Yeah, uh-huh. They're all legitimate actors. Why did they choose to do this movie?

Some of them are really good, too. Yeah, like the actor plant Sarah Fay is actually very good. And the lead. I actually like him in other things I've seen. Yeah. He was in the pit. I feel like this was a nice rest for everybody. You know how Michael Cain always talks about?

He did the Jaws movie because he got to go on vacation to the nice place and buy his mom a house. I feel like everyone sort of read this script and they were like, well, it's not like that shitty. And I get to go to the Jupiter Lounge and that's pretty sweet. Jupiter House, God damn. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry to Karen. We were going to get a free fucking dinner until you fucked it up, Eli. I can't eat.

anything in the state of Texas. So that's fair. Jupiter House is a coffee shop, to be fair. You can see it. Then we might find something. As long as they don't mind making it like lukewarm, Eli, I'll be fine. I want you to picture me trying to order

oat milk in the state of Texas and know that that is a microaggression and an attempt on my life. Okay. So we watch Dad do his radio show. I just want to point out, dad's microphone discipline is fucking terrible. He's a foot and a half away for the microphone looking in different directions as he talks.

Just fucking nonsense. Just doing his thing. Can I just throw this out there, right? So dad has like a, you write me a question and then I tell you what the Bible says about it, right? And just imagine the hubris of starting a radio show about how much you know about the eternal truth of the universe and God. Right. But isn't that like every fucking TV evangelical out there? Yeah, I'm just, I'm always struck.

That's a preacher's job. I'm just struck by it. You never just see Hank Green sitting there with a science book open. just fucking riffing into a podcast. So then we cut to his house back at the 50s when he was growing up. And we get this moment that's just chef's kiss of how fucking saccharine this whole goddamn thing is going to be. The dad is getting up, getting ready for dinner. And he goes, oh, that dag would bum stand.

Okay. To be fair, though, and I think this was just method acting, the mom looks at him with such white, hot hatred. Yes. At this point, I screen. Captain, and put it in our notes and wrote, this is how I imagine Kara whenever I speak. It definitely, you know, like how actors do this, right? You teach acting, right, Eli? They choose sort of their backstory, and they develop their characters in their minds even beyond what's written in the script.

And clearly, this woman chose, I hate my husband. Yes. Yep. And the dad, the radio show host, chose, I'm a creepy petto. Yep. Yes. creepy, massive creepy peto vibes. Absolutely.

They never, like, do anything with it. Just you're always uncomfortable when he's in the room with a child. Yeah, right. Which is what happens here, right? He goes upstairs to get his kid for dinner. And the kid is in his bedroom playing Christian radio host with his light bulb on his lamp as a microphone. I'm like, wait, I feel like you turn the lamp off for this game, right?

I would think so. Yeah, they were hot back then. If I don't burn my lips, it's a lot. I'm not meaning. Yeah, it's much better Mike disciplined than his dad, though. He is going to burn his lips. So, okay, so he goes downstairs

that we sit down to a fucking dinner with less spice than the cafeteria at a British hospital. My God, can you imagine a plan that fucking food is? Oh, my God. There's this moment, and I know this is supposed to be a polite Southern thing, where he's like, excuse me, Mrs. Habelgabble,

can I bother you for some of your okra? And there's people who talk like that to their partners. there, they fuck bad. Okay? They fuck bad. If you can't bring yourself to say, can I have some okra,

you don't eat ass. I think it's a fair assessment, yes. No one does both those things. Absolutely. Yeah. So there's the thing that we do at our notes here too. Like we'll highlight in different colors, different scenes that we're like,

well, this scene we can skip if we're running long or whatever. And I like, I did that in this movie, but like every single scene was highlighted as, yeah, no, we can skip this one. I was finally saying, well, fuck, I have to leave some of them in. So, but this is one that I would normally skip, except for the fact that the dad says at this point, something like, you know, like, just remember son,

no matter what anybody says or science demonstrates or can be shown to be logically fucking true, the Bible is right, you know? Mm-hmm. Which is going to inform him for the rest of his life. It's a lot of logical inconsistencies with how he grapples with that sentence, the rest of the film.

And again, every single person in this, movie will be working off the King James Bible. Yes. It would be like you saying, I know the deep ins and outs of everyone on this podcast because I've heard the edited cut at the end of the movie. It's just fucking. It's so insane. So, okay.

So then we fucking unswish the doodily do. And confessional Edward tells us what the Bible really says about hell. He explains that he's been hired by a Canadian failure to look into this whole hell thing. and see if it's real. Right. So the documentarian's like, well, so what does the Bible say? He's like, well, you know, there's two schools of thought. And I'm like, wow, you'd think God would be super clear about something that consequential in his fucking book, wouldn't he?

But then he quotes a part of the Bible, which critically is not about hell. It's not. Right. No. He catches like a quarter of a sentence of it, which kind of sounds helly. But the full quote is, and the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, if any man worship the beast in his image and receive his mark on his forehead or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of indignation.

Which, by the way, complicated recipe, can I just say? But again, none of that has to do with hell. That's about the people who side with the Antichrist during the end times. No, it's like when the movie reviewer says, oh, this is an excellent example of the drivel this director is known for, they reduce it to just excellent on the poster? Yeah, it's that it's that kind of shit.

So, but he's going to explain to us that there are the traditionalists that think you burn in hell forever and then there are the so-called conditionalists who say the wicked are punished, but not eternally. Because that would be impossibly unimaginably evil, right? Yeah. So this is where I wrote in my notes.

Oh, so this is going to be one of those episodes where Noah pontificates about scripture. And I am utterly lost because all the dialogue sort of blends together with all the thous and hats. Oh my God. Yeah, this is a tough one. Yeah. So he introduces us to a literal... This is when Kara started the dishes. She just stood up. Yeah, I just stood up and walked away and I'm going to go, fuck, I'm working. Killer. Time for a walk. Come on, buddy. Movie will still be playing when I get back. No, even my partner was like nodding off and like he was like playing video games on his phone and

usually he's really into these movies. How dare he? I know. It was boring. you guys. I'm going to send him a friend request on Fishton, though. So yeah, but at this point he introduces us to his almost literal yarn and pushpins board, right? He's got his traditional view and conditional view cork board that he's going to refer back to through the rest of the movie. But first

he's got to go to Vanderbilt to do some research. So he dips out, but as he does, he's like, but you can hang out with my friend Joe Mark, everybody in this movie but me has two names. Joe Mark. That's very Alabama and. Joe Mark, Sarfay. Yeah. So now we get Edward Fudge. His best buddy, Joe Mark, doing his confessional.

Okay. So why is Joe, I know why is this movie at all? But why is Joe Mark in the movie? Well, he's in it a lot. He's in a tremendous amount. So because the other option would be to have the woman in the movie know a thing. Oh, you're right. Because every single fucking thing that Joe Mark does,

because he's just always bouncing. ideas off of him and he's talking theology with him. We know that his wife went to theology at the same theology college as he did, right? So the wife could serve that purpose in the movie, but we can't have her thinking all the time. No, we need her making cookies. And doing laundry, yeah. Yeah, she's got a very important nag to do in every single scene that she will be in in this movie. Yeah.

I mean, why is every Christian movie, honestly, why is every Christian movie so gay? Like in every Christian movie, the main male can. character. It's sort of, okay, did you guys see all the memes that came out after the hockey show on HBO? No. Yes. Obviously. So, obviously. So there's all these memes of like straight white middle America bro dudes being like, dude, being gay seems awesome. Like, you get to fuck your best friend and then go to the gym together and you're like, yeah, dude. Like, obviously. But also you could do that with a woman, but okay. And so it's like that is this whole movie. Joe Mark is in his life, 99% of the time. And his wife is just there as his housekeeper. Even when his wife leaves.

Yeah. Yeah. And in case you're wondering why Heath isn't here, it's because of Joe Mark's opening line, he goes, well, you know, Edward was never really good at sports, unless you count ping pong as a sport. And Heath has been screaming, a fucking course you count ping pong as a sport

at his goddamn microphone for the last 72 hours. breathing into a paper bag for days. He's enraged. Which is good. It's honestly, it's good that he left before the character

that's supposed to be good at ping pong has to play any ping pong in this movie because that would have done him in. He'd been off forever after that. But this is where we learned that when he was in the eighth grade,

Edward wrote a defense of the New Testament canon. That's how much of a Bible nerd he is. Yeah, right? We also learn that we're going to get ready. we're going to doodily do again, be ready for a lot of these. We learned that when they were kids, Edward and Joe Mark had a cool friend named Davy. Yeah.

You know, Davy's cool because of his leather and cigarettes. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So we doodily do into Edward, Joe, and Davy hanging out smoking cigarettes, talking about the New Testament canon as cool kids are wont to do. And there's this great thing where whenever there's a bad kid in a Christian movie, they have to be bad,

but they can't be so bad that people will be offended and turn off the movie. So Davy's like, so you're really going to study that Bible stuff? And he's like, yeah, I sure do like it.

And he's like, okay. Well, that's pretty cool. I guess we can all agree. That's an awesome way to spend your time, but I'd rather ride most cars or whatever the fuck.

And then did you see that weird scene where he pulls out a hip flask and he goes, you guys want to snort? Yeah, I thought maybe that was like... You mean his crystalline goblet? Yes, it was.

I was like, quite a fancy little flask here. So what was supposed to happen is they were supposed to get a hip flask, and they all stood outside of the fucking gas station where they were going to buy it. And it was like, I just don't want to see nobody. I don't want anyone I know to see me walking in there, man, I can't afford it. So they got grandma's fucking scotch decanter, which is kind of in the shape of a hip flask. But it looks like, if it's a hip flask, it looks like Liberace's hip flask. But why does he ask them to snort the liquor?

Maybe he doesn't know how it works yet. They're all doing lines. I know I've heard that, a snort of liquor. Oh, okay. Really? Yeah. I think you're making that up. But that's nice of you to move us on.

Should have hung out at the Jupiter Crackone after. Jupiter House. It's not that hard. Okay. So then. Well, it certainly wasn't Cracoon. He's like, I want to hang out, but I've got to go help my old man move short blocks. Yeah.

What does that mean, anyone? I think it's engines. I think short block. What are short blocks? Short block engines or engines without the heads on attached? I don't move anything even though I'm the dad. I don't move so. I think, I think I'm just, I'm talking shit.

I don't know anything at all about engines. So I'm probably wrong. Emails, emails. Yeah, right. So yeah, but basically they have this conversation. They're like, wow, Davy, you're probably going to burn in hell. And he's like, nah, I'll find Jesus when I'm older, as long as I don't die in a car accident.

Anyway, I'm done with this alcohol. I'm going to drive away. As fast as I fucking can. So the next scene, we get the phone call. The Davey didn't make it. Yeah. Edwards upstairs teaching his little brother

what the cave people in the 50s considered the planets. Nine planets as God intended. Thank you. We either have the eight or we have to add the fucking rest of the shit in the Kuiper belt. No, I get to, but you nerds told me to memorize that.

My grandma has three hats or whatever. Wait, you did that one. Yeah, but now there's more shit. So now it has to be my very elderly mother just served us nine pizzas, mate. However, our quite vapid aunt, 2002, TX300, 2005, UQ 513. That's the name of the aunt. They haven't named those ones yet. Made another very useful Irish cream.

That's too much to remember, Eli. That's awesome. Do you hear how awesome the thing you just said is? That was actually pretty good. Do you know how I remembered the plant? Lanets when I was young. How's that? It was from an episode of Save by the Bell when Screech teaches Zach

mvemsch snup. Okay, all right. And I still do that in my head. Mevemch snub. It's not snub, though. It would be some, well, it depends on when. But okay. But so then dad comes in and he's like, we can't get Eli and Noah started on the Pluto

thing, you know, you need to leave the room so I can talk to your brother about something very serious now. and he explains to him that Davy died painfully in a drunken car action. He's like, let me give you some details so you can real visualize it. I really need you to understand. You can be alive for so much longer after you can't breathe than most people think. People say it's the worst feeling in the world, but I have no idea. How would you know?

Because they all died. A little taste to hell, though. Kind of a little sneak preview. Well, yeah, but that's what he's saying. He's like, but dad, Davey wasn't baptized. Is he burning in hell? And dad's like, oh, you know what's a funny thing about this here window on your wall? Yeah.

You know. It's so weird. Like, dad's supposed to know everything about this shit. And he goes, dad, point blank, is Davey in hell? And he goes, well, Davy's not in hell, but he's sinned. And the punishment for sin is death. And I was like, what does that mean? Yeah.

Means he's in hell. He goes, I don't have all the answers. I'm like, you have a. fucking radio show called I have all the answers, right? Fuck you, tell your kid what you believe. The kid goes, wait, he's going to burn in hell forever for wanting to see

the world, and dad goes, yes. And I want to point out two things about this story. One, like every fire and brimstone preacher we have ever heard about Ray Convergloosting, anyone you cared to name, they had

a traumatic childhood with a friend who wasn't saved dying, and then the adult in their life introducing them to the absurdity of hellfire. So they spent the rest of their life justifying it or not justifying it in the case of Edward Fudge. But two, doesn't this show that you don't need to learn ancient Greek to see that hell is ridiculous? The rest of this movie will be like,

well, I actually studied Maphibians. And in Maphibians, the word grave actually does not mean word. No, you can tell a third grader, hey, do you think anyone should be punished forever? And the third grader will be like, I'm going to stop you right there. No. Right. Yeah, so, but we get that back story, but then we go back to the, I wrote present in my nose.

This is, I guess, in the 70s again, the beginning of the documentary. Edwards back from Vandy, and he's going to present now the three arguments on either side of the debate, right? The hell forever and the not hell forever side, right? There are three arguments now? I thought there were only two. Yeah, no, he's got three arguments on either side. Oh, the sub-arguments. Yeah, sorry, three. Got to follow the note cards here.

Yes, exactly. Are you not following along with your pushpins at home, Kara? Yeah, this is the plot, right? It involves intertestamental evidence. Oh, God. I hate that that was not auto-corrected when I wrote that. Right. He kept talking about fucking

pseudipigrapha and auto-correct will give you nothing on that. You can be one letter away. Sudopigrapher. It's good. I hate that. I hate that. So, okay. My auto-correct was like, he's trying to write pseudafet again. Trust me.

I'm done there. I'm done this. So yeah, but so and so he's got these little index cards that he's putting beneath the two arguments, right? One says, you know, Old Testament evidence on the side of the traditionalists. And then on the other side,

it says Old Testament evidence on the side of the other guys. And I'm like, well, that doesn't fucking count. Have you read the fucking book? Like, this isn't a he said, she said they checked the fucking book. Right? But that's the whole point, right?

this whole time he's trying to act like the Bible is infallible and that we should like have a literal interpretation of it. And then he's like, I'm confused every time it can, you know, it's conflicting. Right. It's like, yeah, dude. Right, exactly. It's funny. You can actually justify both arguments using this same book. It's nuts.

Jesus Christ. Crazy. Sorry, one side of his fucking notes, it's got the argument for the old style, like Jesus argued for a literal hell or whatever on one side. And the other, the card on the other side. is, no, he didn't. No. No, uh. Smoke you, Craig.

I also point out that all of these arguments are the setup by people who believe in hell, right? So if you're an annihilationist, you actually don't care what the Old Testament said because the Old Testament is the old one. That's what it was a new one. Then there's the argument about where Jesus talked about hell. He definitely didn't talk about hell, but people like to reinterpret Matthew to be about hell. So that's a bad argument for his side.

And then finally, it's just a question. does the church teach about hell, which has nothing to do with what's true? Does the church fall down the stairs on Sundays in May? Maybe. All right, nerd. Saying. Get your annihilationism from the New Testament,

like a fucking American. Right. So, okay. So now we're in the 1970s with another one of these spiceless hell dinners with grown-up Edward and his family. This is where the wife is like, hey, why the fuck was there somebody

wasn't around filming you in the movie. Like, did we have to justify there being a camera? It makes no fucking sense. Yeah, and Edward goes, the cameraman seems to think this will make an interesting film. It is not. Nope, it did not. It will not.

He was wrong. Oh, and the mom here, this is where we get real confused for a while. I saw the confusion in everyone's notes. Because the mom in her flashbacks is the same age as she is in the present day. Yes. Whereas in the flashbacks, the kids are children and then they're 40-year-old adults. Yes.

But the mom is like 45 the whole time, which is really strange. Well, and critically, she's like the same age as the actor playing Edward, regardless of which at what age he is. Yeah, right. Yes, it's very confusing. Yeah. So, yeah, I couldn't tell if this was supposed to be the mom or the wife when she was older. But yeah, this is the mom. So now she's doing a confessional.

us about when Edward first started at coastal Christian college in Florida back in 1962. This is when all the cool cars start being. Oh, God, can we just make cars that look like that now? I mean, they could just work like modern cars, but look like that. Oh, they're called boats. Just getting a boat on land. So, okay, but then we have that moment where, like, his dad drops him off at his college, but his dad can't, like, hug, embrace him or let him see him cry.

so he just has to leave real quick. Yeah. It's also like the weirdest scene because they'd like spend an inordinate amount of time talking about how hard it was for his dad to drop him off at college. They're from Alabama. He's dropping him off in college in Florida.

You could just drive to where they are. And he's acting like it's so difficult to leave his kid behind. And this is such apology for a shitty dad, right? It's like, no, trust us. It was really hard for him. This is why we're doing a one-on-one with a fictional mom. Like, oh, no, your daddy,

loved you. Yep. Can I say there would be, I do not care if I actually possessed the eternal truth of God's will. If I was not able to make my child feel love when I dropped him off at college, I am a failure. Yep. It does not matter if my eyes glow and I deliver messages directly from the Almighty. If I can't give my kid a hug, I'd done fucked up.

This says so much about our childhoods. No, or Eli, because you're taking the tack that this guy was evil and heartless. And I'm like, what the fuck are they going on about? He dropped off his kid at college that he clearly, he obviously, and he paid for his kid to go to college. Thanks fucking dad. That's fucking awesome. Okay, Kare's going to do the fucking, you got food in your belly, not along from fences. I did right.

I wrote Oboohoo, how hard. I went to college an hour away from home and then my parents moved six states away. Like so, yeah, no, I'm with you, Karen. I don't know what the big fucking deal. His dad literally cries as he's driving away. And to be fair, this is my best worst, right? Because this is when he's dropping off his 40-year-old, 18-year-old son. Yeah, well, yeah, his son is the same age as the dad character.

Yeah. So Edward goes in to be greeted at Schmology. I cannot call the fucking Christian Academy of Bible the fucking college. So he's going to greet at Schmology. And this is we're going to meet the bad guy, Holloway. Oh yeah, I love it. He's like, he sees Edward in the crowd and he goes, freshman Bible major, I can pick him out. And I'm like, what do you mean? He looks like an emeritus professor. Yeah, relax. That is not a freshman Bible. You can tell the freshmen from their long gray beards, can you? Yeah, not since dear Evan Hanson has someone so unkindly made an adult pleioteen.

So yeah, but we learn here about the sermons on the step. Any of the first? student is allowed to give a sermon on the step on Sundays, just keep him short. Oh, you also, this is the first time he introduces himself as Edward Fudge? It's as delicious as it sounds. Yeah, well, that's where he's going to meet his wife to be. So he sees her up in my mouth. Yeah, right? Yeah, no, that, the only appropriate thing for you to say that on is like an orgy, right?

If you, if you're an oral sex thing and like the oral sex is obviously already and your genitals are already dipped in hardening chocolate. than as delicious as it sounds is appropriate. So, okay, so, but yeah, so now he wants to meet Sarah. So he locks his bike to hers, like in the Jack Johnson song. But then he, like, she's like, hey, some asshole lock my bike to his. And he's like, oh, that was me. I didn't want nobody to steal your bicycle.

And she's like, oh, okay. And then she rides away without him actually, like, you know, taking advantage of the opportunity that he engineered. I caught up to you. Did people really lock their bikes in the 60s? I don't know. on Christian college campuses. Well, that's her point, right?

She's like, dude, who on this Christian college campus is going to steal your bike? And he's like, I was trying to imprison you into a conversation with me. I failed. Yeah, right. Now I do it with my physical presence. Yeah, exactly. There's also, like, this is the intro to like the weird, subtle racism throughout the film where he's like, what are you studying?

And he's like, I'm studying Bible. I want to be a Bible minister. And that's my only path unless you can make a living play in ping pong. And she's like, you can only make live and play ping pong if you're Chinese. And I was like, what? And you watch both of these real modern day actors be like, we just said those words. Why didn't we do that? Really got to read these scripts.

My agent sends more carefully. Also, I know it's just a tiny detail, but I do have to talk about it. They're doing this walk-and-talk, but it's a bike-and-talk. And they've asked these actors to bike too slow to stay. Yes. So they're just veering wildly back and forth. The entire time they're doing this boring meet you. There's probably a bunch of outtakes of them crashing.

I would love to see those. So, okay, so then we check it. He's at Bible school. And as he's walking by a class, he hears, an actor I have done is angry Dan Marino, given like an informal lecture about God's grace and how God probably even loves Methodists and Episcopalians. Right?

Yeah. And Edward comes in and he's like, wait, what is this fucking heresy over here, right? I'm so confused at this point because he's basically preaching, like, I think against denominations. He's saying, like, if you're a believer, like, you're going to be saved regardless and grace actually, grace and works and all that kind of stuff. But I'm confused at this point because I'm like, what the fuck religion are these people then? Yeah, they're just evangelicals. What does that even mean?

Yeah, evangelical isn't like a denomination specifically. I know. I think they're Baptist. I guarantee you. They never say that. they're Baptist, but they do shit on Presbyterians and Methodists a lot. And Catholics. And yeah, I actually

have no fucking idea. I would love to be able to pop into that room long enough to go, what about Mormons? So angry Dan Marino would go, oh God, no, not Mormon. No, no, no. God's grace only going to so fucking far. No, come on. Don't be silly. Shut up. I thought they might be Mormon a handful of times

because of, like, there are a lot of very Mormon-things in this film. Racism. Like the way that they dress, there's no crucifixes anywhere. there's this one picture of Jesus that they show over and over that's in every Mormon church. So I was like, this is confusing.

Hot white Mormon Jesus, they definitely have him in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just this entire time where he was supposed to be blown away by this new, like, idea of grace I wrote in my notes, this is what happens when I'm trying to describe podcast drama to care. I do not care.

But so, yeah, so after all this heretical talk about how Presbyterians, you know, might not be of the devil, Edward confronts angry Dan Marino outside the class and he's like, all right, if you don't believe me, I challenge you to give a sermon on the step tomorrow about how wrong I am. Yeah, this is Carl Ketcherside and he's a rebel. Yeah, he's preaching without a permission.

Yeah, exactly. He's rabble, right? He's an outsider. Well, and it's so funny because all of this stuff about denominations, like, I know that retroactively, right? Like, I figured that out later in the movie and then applied it to you. At this point, when I'm...

when I was taking my notes, I'm like, this movie is so far up its own ass, we lay people don't know what he's trying to fucking challenge him to do a sermon about. Yeah, I think that this is what they think the fundamental debate between progressive and conservatism is. I guess. They're like catch a can or whatever. Oh, catcher sad. Catchers catch him.

And then later fudge, they're like liberal Christians. Yeah. And everybody else are conservative Christians. But really, they're just all fucking idiots. That's the problem. They're all idiots. And they're arguing about nuanced bullshit, none of which is true.

And over and over, they're like, well, if the Bible says it's true, if you know it's true, you need to preach that it's true. True, true, none of this is true. No. It's all made up. It's like verifiably untrue. Yeah. All right. Well, believe it or not, that is the plot. That's all we're ever going to get.

So while we come to grips with that emotionally, we're going to take a quick break, but we're back in a minute with even more of hell and Mr. Fogg. Kara Santa Maria. Yes, Eli. As an influential person in both the atheist movement and science communication circles,

you've managed something really extraordinary by not being named in the Epstein Files. How did you manage it? Well, it's a little secret called Not Associating with the Worst Kind of Person, you know, because you aren't one. Clever. But whether or not you're in the Epstein Files, you can dine out just like Kara here,

does with Factor. Oh, they're going to love that intro. Factor makes healthy eating easy with fully prepared meals designed by dietitians and crafted by chefs. So eat well without the planning or cooking, no matter whose private plane you're about to catch. That's right, Eli. And with 100 rotating weekly meals to keep things fresh and delicious through winter, Factor never gets boring, unlike the news of every badly behaved man being exactly as disgusting as you thought he'd be. Ah, you said it, Kara. But Eli, have you actually tried to? Factor? I sure have. Factor sent us a box to try when they first became a sponsor. I love how I can heat and eat their meals in under two minutes. All right, Eli. I'm sold. Where do I sign up?

Head to FactorMeals.com slash awful 50 off and use code awful 50 off to get 50% off and free breakfast for a year. Eat like a pro this month with Factor. New subscribers only varies by plan. One free breakfast item per box for one year while subscription is active. Factor meals, pretty much the only pleasant surprise we get these days. Hello? Hey, excuse me, ma'am. Do you have a moment to talk about our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ? Oh, pittled, paddle, you Christians in your fire and brimstone don't scare me.

Oh, ma'am, we're not that's kind of Christians. You're not? No, we're annihilationists. What's an annihilationist? Well, we believe that when you die, you just die. Oh, so you're atheists. Sorry, no, sorry, you die. We go to heaven.

Okay, so God just gets rid of most people when they die. Yeah, he burns them right up. Well, that's the second most evil belief I've ever heard, so why the hell not? You guys like cookies? As long as they're not burned. Like your soul will be. Yeah, no kid, I got it. And we're back for more of this shit.

We're going to rejoin the action with some of the confessionals building up what a big deal sermon on the step was. Right? Except for one of them actually says it wasn't all that serious. But he took it seriously after they. Have we talked about it? Anyway. But he's got to go out and do his sermon thing on the step. But first, Don Holloway, the bad guy, you know, the guy who's going to out ski him or whatever.

He goes up and he crushes his sermon on the step. Yeah, he's playing the hits. Yeah, because he just says, like, mean, shit. shit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right. Because his whole sermon is about how everybody but them is going to burn in hell. And then Edward steps up and he's like, actually, I think maybe God wouldn't burn everybody except for our very small slice of Christianity in hell for eternity. And everybody's like, boo, you suck. My sermon isn't so much a statement as it is a question. Yeah, he did say that. But yeah, his sermon sucks and nobody claps for him. And Sarah Faye, though, actually, she's kind of...

Soking. She's like into humiliation stuff, I think, right? Because there's like three times she gets really turned on by him, and it's always when he's just humiliated himself. Look, if you're a Christian woman in the 50s, you can't ask to pee on your husband, but being Edward Fudge's wife is pretty damn close. No, no, get up there and argue the opposite of what everybody believes

in the most close-minded part of the world. Get up there, hon. Yeah, yeah. Why don't you give that a try? It's a back massager. I brought it. So that we get, we have his confessional, right, in the modern day going, he's like, well, I guess that's where it all started.

And we're like, we don't even know what it is. Yeah. Oh, my God, nothing happens. It's like, that's when I decided to read for the next 20 years. Oh, my fucking guy. Yeah, so this is the first of the reading montages, right? This is where Holloway and Edward Fudge are our library rivals, right, trying to out preach each other.

They do the head bump. Yeah. I really wanted Holloway, the bad guy, to be getting injected with all the illegal Russians. Yeah, right. But we also find out here that Holloway is not really the bad guy. He's like the front for the real bad. The bad guy behind the bad guy.

Right. That's Mr. Simon Clarege. These people's fucking names, man. And again, what's so wonderful about this movie, right, is that they can't really name any names. They just have to, right? They can't take any real issue with any practicing theology because that's all the churches in the fucking universe, right?

Edward Fudge and like nine other guys, Kirk Cameron being one of them, believe this weird bullshit tiny corner of Christianity. So they can't be like, fuck you, Joel Osteen. So they're just like, we'll make up a guy. His name was Simon. He was weird for some reason. Right.

But yeah, so Mr. Clarege here, he grabs Edward and he's like, Edward, because Edward's getting better and better at doing his servant on the steps. and he's starting to convince people that maybe Methodists aren't going to burn in hell. So he takes Edward off to the side to have a conversation.

He's like, you know, this whole grace unity thing that you're preaching is dangerous. Arbitrary lines between the denominations are necessary. That's how I make my living, man. You're fucking it up. But they tell him he's being too,

he's going in for too much of this progressive hokom. Yep. And I do want to say that Clarege does make one great point, which is he's like, hey man, if you're 19 and you think you figured out the eternal truth of the universe

and more importantly, you're the only one who has done it, the chance that you are having a manic episode is way higher. Yes. Just way higher. That's true. But what he doesn't do is look in the mirror because although he does make that very important and astute point, the context is, now I have been doing this a few years more than you.

Yes, exactly. I've been playing for ten years. I've read the dungeon master's guide four times so I know how dragons really fuck. Yeah, but it is like, but it's, it's an actual indictment on their entire fucking field of study, right? That somebody could come in as a fucking freshman

Bible student and be like, yeah, my entirely contrarian point of view, though, has as much justification as your dumb shit, right? Because it's all made up anyway. And it's also why they have to overreact to it, right? Sure. stand up in science class and you're like, excuse me, professor, I actually think the mitochondria is not the powerhouse of the cell.

Then you're like, cool, we can just look. There it is. I see it. Look, discoverable proxies. Let's start from base principles. Oh, it's me again. Look at that. When it is a very specific how dragons fuck canon, then you work.

Right. It's hair. It's got to be burn them at the stake. Yeah. Keith can't just be like, I've got two dicks. And then you're like, absolutely not. Sorry, private fire. It's the podcast drama I was talking to care about earlier.

Not interested. But you know what? You know what I have to say to that? I started learning Greek when I was six. Motherfucker, he drops the mic. He's like, oh, you don't think I'm... Yeah. So then we get our second study montage.

Squintan de nears. I read that out loud when I was watching. I was like, squirreemnon-ne-ne-ne-h. It's hard to spell spenetically, but I think I nailed it. You did a great job. The close captioning on Amazon list this music as Determined to Succeed Music. Fuck yeah, baby.

Part of this montage is like, because, you know, what are you going to do with a montage of somebody reading books in a library? Part of it is him trying to carry too many books up the stairs. And I'm like, make two fucking trips, dude. And then I remember like every time I've ever carried in groceries. And I'm like, yeah, you're good. You're good, man.

But this like 11 second montage, this one ends with Mr. Clarege and Mr. Holloway meeting with the dean about try to do something about Edward and all his heresies, right? Okay. This is such a weird scene, right? Because I have seen the fucking kid gets in trouble for speaking out

against the man movie. That's one out of every three fucking movies. And what happens is the bad guys tattled to someone in authority and then the authority punishes the good guy and we go, oh, the system was weighed against him. Except that's not what happened. No. They tattled on him and the dean was like,

I don't care about this bullshit. I'm Kara Santa Maria in a wig. No, he actually does what a dean should do. He's like, okay, so debate him. Yeah. Like, this is scholarship. Or don't. Just leave me the fuck alone.

But they're like, but no, we don't want real scholarship. This is Christian college. Scholarship is for the lib tarts. We can't, this isn't the fucking mitochondria. You can't just look. You have to make him stop saying this stuff because we all have to say the same bullshit. Just say, yeah.

Your thing louder, nothing matters. I'm the dean of a Christian college. Did you notice that he had like a red bus? Like he had one of those like British buses on his desk. And then he was like stroking like a London taxi. Let me explain. Let me explain. So for those of you without acting experience,

sometimes they give you a couple of really cool props. And you start to play with them when the cameras are off. And then they're like, hey, time to stop playing with the super cool bus. on your desk. You got to do our stupid scene in our stupid movie now. But you kind of still want to play with the bus. You touch it a lot instead of acting.

Okay. All right. So, yeah, so then we catch up with Edward. He's at the library. Again, his girlfriend finds him. He stood her up for their date because he's so busy with the pseudipigrapher. Theology. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they go to leave for their date and she sees a sign

on the door that's like, come here Holloway, pawn fudge, and all his Heretical bullshit, 7 p.m. Be there, be square. I hate this movie so much. So he goes to see Angry Dan Marino about it. He's like, what am I going to do? And he's like, you've got to go and preach even harder than he preaches. You got to preach more preachiness than ever.

He has this great moment where he's like, he's going to try and make it about character. And you need to do that. Make it about God's character. And I just want to say, I would not volunteer to defend the character of the guy who drowned the world. That would have been a weak side for our argument. I would have been like, ooh. Well, there were two bunnies.

He didn't drown. Well, seven, no, seven, they're clean. Yeah. But then we cut, we're back to the sermon on the step again, as though nothing had happened in the last half hour of the goddamn movie. Because nothing did happen. Noah, my, uh, my computer is broken. I wonder if you could read what I wrote at the top of my nose for this scene.

Uh, did you? Oh, did you write? Let's get ready to. Humble. I did write that. Yes, I did. Yes, I did. Why did I read my own joke?

Because I was too busy congratulating. You've skipped a lot of funny jokes that you wrote throughout the thing. I think my favorite was, oh shit, they made it this guy's wrong poster. Well, not poster, eight by 11. It is an eight by 11. But yeah, so Calloway's given his talk. He's like, you know, I'm sick and tired of hearing all these heresies about how heretics aren't going to burn into hell.

His entire argument seems to be, I'm correct, damn it. That's the way we've always done it around here. But then Edward shows up in the middle of his speech and he stands up on his bicycle. He's going to break his own neck on that golden bike. The most stable of things. Yes, yeah. And he's like, I, a man trying to stand on a bicycle that doesn't even have a kickstand up while my buddy holds it.

I'm wise. And he yells. about John 316 and we're all like, oh wow, that's the background of sporting events first. That's an important one. That's the one that we kind of didn't say a bad thing at one point during its one and a half sentences. And then he falls off the bike and again, going with my humiliation king theory,

his wife is fucking soaking wet after that. Oh, yeah, 100%. She's squirting at this point. Oh, she's squirting at the memory of it, right? Because we cut to the documentary and asking her about it as she does dishes because she's always got to be doing dishes or laundry. she goes, oh yeah, I was a gone pecan. That's pecan, but she made it rhyme the way she said it.

It's nice that the dirt people can sometimes have a rhyme that the rest of us can't. That's fun for them. People, Jesus. But they got married, had kids, et cetera. And he's like, wow, I bet it was great being a preacher's wife on. She's like, well, if he was more, if he was less honest, it would have been great. Wouldn't even get us a new fucking car, the cheap bastard. He was really bad at taking free money the job.

It's fucking crazy because they wrote your lines for you. It's like you just have to recite a play over and over again. And then when someone's young kid dies, you just go, he's up in heaven. And that's really, there's fucking one requirement. And he blew it. He blew it over and over and over again. So we were poor at the free money job.

And she's like, you know, we didn't get no new Buick every year. He just drove around in that beat up old Opel G.T. He had. So then we cut to him like showing up. His dad owns a publishing company, right? He's a little fucking Nepo baby getting his Nepo baby book published. But he pulls up in this Opel GT, which they have had to hilariously beat up because an Opel GT is actually kind of an ostentatiously sporty little car.

You know, that's a pretty nice looking car. So they've really beat it up and just painted rust onto it and everything. but this is where we get my best worst, right? Because Edward Fudge has now published his book and he goes into his dad's fucking office. His dad's the publisher that published it and we see his book. And I cannot exaggerate

how tiny this little tiny ass book is. Right? You could barely get three folds into the cover because there were so few fucking pages to fold around. Yeah, I wrote, they have his book. I mean, more a zine than anything. Oh, it's, it is like literally, it's like 26 pages. I was trying to find this book, the first thing that Edward,

but I can find no record of him publishing a book before the main one that this is about. So I was damn curious to see if it exceeded 40 pages. But at any rate, so we see his little book. Wait, this movie is about a real book? Yeah, the book that he publishes at the end of it, yeah. Oh, God. To be clear, the fire that consumes is only 442 pages. And I know at home, you're like, oh, my gosh, this is a,

But for a scholarly work, that's pretty fucking short. Well, and as we'll see later, it takes like years off of his life. Yeah, it takes like 20 fucking years to write a 400-page book, yeah. And he like loses his family and sure. I mean, he doesn't really, but he almost does. Yeah, they went on vacation at one point and he tried to make it seem dramatic. But so now, okay, so now that he's showing the documentarian around his church, this is where we're going to meet Arnold the custodian.

And he walks in and he's like, Arnold, the custodian, I got to. camera behind me. He has a very like, you're not raping any kids in here, are you? Kind of a sound to his voice. Right, but the custodian is the movie's first African American, which is great. So clearly, when he asked why the cameraman is behind him, he goes,

oh, he's making a documentary like Roots. Which was not a documentary. I don't know. No. Roots is not. Historical fiction. But yeah, yeah. But yes, he's black. So the only film he's aware of is roots, apparently. Jesus. Oh, and then Fudge talks about him like he's not standing right there to the

documentarian. He says, these folks are the salt of the earth. The salt is that mean? It means I'm racist. Right. So, okay. So now he's at home when Joe Mark is working on his car for him. For the rest of the movie, Joe Mark will always be doing work for him every time we see these two together.

Oh, their relationship is so fucked. Yeah. Like he is the most lazy entitled. Like all he does is read all day. His wife is constantly doing laundry, cooking, and the dishes. And then his friend is always doing handiwork around the house. He's always doing the man stuff. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

At the very least, if you're going to have, like, if your poor wife has to do all the women's shit, you have to do the man's shit. You have to at least kill the fucking bug. But they're clearly like in some sort of weird thruple. That's what I thought, yeah. Because it does play like Joe Mark and Sarah are fucking. Yeah.

Yeah. Or like Joe Mark and... Well, yes, definitely Joe Mark and Edward are fucking, yeah. There's no question of that. She just wanted to see what Edward was so excited about. He was like, all right, Joe Mark. So while he's working on the car, Sarah comes out and she's got this magazine.

And again, magazine and air quotes, they made an extra thin prop magazine so his book would look better by comparison, right? There are four pages to this thing, right? But there's an editorial in it about his book, and it's written by the bad guy Holloway. his college library nemesis. Yeah.

This is the point in the film where they have used the word hermeneutic more times than I did in my doctoral dissertation. Yes, she's like, he goes after your hermeneutics. Yeah, my doctoral dissertation was riveting. Maybe I should make a movie.

Right? Yeah. So, yeah, so she's like, you know, when a man hit you in the hermeneutics, you got to hit back. And he says, and I quote, there's no use chasing the devil's dogs what what

so you should write a rebuttal and I'm like to a book review no it was good it's going on good reads but yeah but no so he decides to chase the devil's dog he's anyway right so we see him like thinking about writing his rebuttal

that the close capturing assures us that we're listening to a quote, pensive melody. Oh, and we see the dog. Bat dog. Oh, it's so cute. The big bat dog. I love the dog.

I like that someone's morbidly obese dog made it into the movie. It's really cute. It's like a little Jack Russell, like a fat Jack Russell. Yes, it's the best. It likes watching him play ping pong. Very mediocre ping pong. This whole movie he keeps talking about how he's real good at ping pong,

but then we see him play in ping pong. It looks like, it looks like Heath warming up with. somebody. It's just fucking pathetic. But I'm not, I don't even want to talk shit about his ping pong. If this whole movie was that dog and ping pong, it would be so much more riveting. Oh, yeah. Than him reading and doing hermeneutic scholarship. Watching those two guys, yeah, watching two bad ping pong players play to like, you know,

first to 71 or whatever would have been better than this fucking movie. So yeah, but so he's telling Joe about all his index card research and he's now he's written down, or no, sorry, he's telling Jimmy the, the documentarian about it. And he's written down like Old Testament texts about there not being a hell. So apparently so far, there isn't eternal torment side is winning. Is that the conditionalists? Yes. Which is weird because at the beginning of the movie, he said that he wasn't on that side.

Oh, it's like he's been taught. It's the same way that like Lee Strobel was an atheist when he started doing his Jesus research. Yes, exactly. He was an atheist and it had nothing to do with his wife's devout. Christianity. Right. Yeah. So, okay, so then we catch up with it. There's this scene where he's trying to talk about the pseudipographer to his wife again, but she's too busy doing lady stuff. Like everything's laundry for her.

You get it, Kara. Right? Staines. That's all ladies can think about. She literally just goes from household task to household task. He's like, hey, literally, his exact words are, I'm sorry, I've just been busy with this eternal punishment stuff. I think I wrote here, God, I hate everything.

How this is entertaining to you. I will never understand. Yeah, the movie's not entertaining to either of us. It's thinking about you watching the movie, Kara, that is entertained. Yes, it's enjoyable to me. Also, a pseudipagrafa doesn't count. I don't know why the fuck he brings it up multiple times throughout the movie. I am a pseudipigrapher.

Hi, how's it going, everybody? It's the gospel of Eli, and I say Jesus was a bisexual woman. said fuck ice. I don't know. What do you want from me? I like it. So yeah, but during the middle of this boring speech, his dad gets a,

or he gets a call that his dad's in the hospital, right? So we go to the hospital where we learn that his dad is going to die of pneumonia because, no, sorry, his dad is going to be, is going to die of being too stubborn to go get medical treatment when he had fucking pneumonia. Right. But,

but this is a very important of Christian passing, right? Which is that you don't get any medical care until you are a tremendous burden on friends and family, and then you die hooked up to as many life-saving machines as possible. It's a great Christian tradition to hold on to the last strand of your life as hard and as expensively as you possibly can. After making no effort whatsoever up to that point. But they didn't even do that right in this movie.

Right. Because they didn't even let him die in this scene. It's a really weird, because, yeah, they have like the saying goodbye scene, and then they have the him and his wife being sad about it scene and then he dies and it's just like why would you just kill him there he's fucking idiots? And why why in all these movies do they call their dad's

daddy? Yeah, stop calling your father daddy especially because you're the same age. Right, yeah, that's what really farks it up is that these two actors are the same age. He's like oh, daddy and of course we have this long moment where dad it tells him how proud he is of him

and I'm like, can you imagine what a douche you would have to be to include a scene in your movie where your dad's dying words were about how awesome you were. I know. Yeah. I'm going to work on your self-esteem. This guy needs therapy. Yeah, right?

That's what this movie's about. So he takes, Edward takes Sarah Faye now to his favorite childhood sadness spot and tells her about old dead Davey. I have a friend who, the only enjoyable part of the movie was here for a second. So I guess I'm nostalgic for this or something. Oh my God, Eli, what you wrote during the scene is laughing so fucking hard. We talking about the foot stuff

that we think's going to have. He said she comes around, she's like, hold on right where you are. They're sitting in the car together. So she comes around from the passenger side and I'm like, oh, is this going to be a sex thing? And then she starts taking his shoes off. And I'm like, what fuck is going on here?

I wrote in my notes, if she sucks his toes, I'm going to apologize to Kara through multiple lawyers. Like, lawyer to a representative. by other lawyers. And to be like, to get a little serious for a second, oh God,

on this here comedy show, this is where I realized that like what this movie is about is what I went through when I was maybe like between six and nine years old. Like when I, so I was raised Mormon, right?

And in Mormon lore, there's the kingdoms of heaven. There's the celestial, the terrestrial, the telestrial, all that good stuff. So when I was six, my parents got divorced. And a couple years later,

My dad remarried a woman I didn't know. And I was told that because they were married and sealed, that we would all be together in the celestial kingdom after we died. But my mom would be hanging out over on like the terrestrial side. And I'd have to go visit her, but she couldn't come hang out with us in like God's light. And I was like, this is pretty fucked. Oh, wow.

Like, I don't think that this is okay. That like just because my parents got divorced, my mom will no longer be with her own children, but this rando lady that my dad, chose to marry will now be with her children in heaven. And I was like, I don't think this is the religion for me. But it took this dude until he was like 40 to figure this out. And he never quite figured it out.

Yeah, he still doesn't quite get there. Well, so it's funny that you were thinking about that. All I wrote in my notes is like, it must be so sad to be a Christian. Your wife comes around the car and you think it's going to be a fuck thing. And she's like, no, let's take our shoes off and wait in the water. And you're like, yeah, let's fucking wait in the fucking water. Sitting there with your arms crossed. gotten a blowjob from one of your disciples,

huh, Jesus? Not one. Couldn't have just gotten a little sloppy topy once in your life, Jesus, you fucking nerd? Well, you wrote, you wrote cheekpeck. This is Christian anal-lingus. It is Christian anal-lingus. Everybody knows. That is Christian Rusty Trombone, is the cheekpeck.

Which you get on Valentine's Day, if it's also your birthday. Yeah, there you go. So that's, okay, so he goes into the church now, like his dad's just died and everybody's being very, very nice to him and everything. but then he invites the custodian guy to come up and pray for everybody, and he's black.

So they freak out. He just made a fatal error in this 70s Alabama church. I mean, that actually is really progressive. No, absolutely. Now, again, to be clear, that was not the thrust of Edward Fudge's life, right? This is just one time he got fired for letting a black guy pray. And it's funny because what's obviously happening is the writers of this movie are like, hey, man, this movie's so boring.

I'm going to fucking die. Did anything interesting ever happen to Edward Fudge? And he, who was alive while they were making this movie, was like, oh, I got fired for letting a black guy be at the front of the room once. Do you care about that? And they're like, great, put it in the film. Jesus, something. Sure.

And also, like, no insult to this actor, this African-American actor, there is no way that you can say, our dear brother Fudge, solemnly. Yeah, it's tough. There's no amount of acting skill that will allow you to do that. Also, I know the little lady, amicas, the napkinhead things are real. But there's, they surprised me with a shot of one in this scene.

It tickled me for a while. Yeah. Is this a Baptist thing? I don't know. I've never seen it. So, okay. So then we get Edward fucking watching Joe fix his oven. He's literally sitting on top of the oven while Joe is fixing it.

And like, yeah. And he's like, hand me this. He's like doing it really slow and everything. Yeah. But he's, man, he just cannot seem to. get that intertestamental stuff to match up to the traditionalist view of eternal punishment. Oh my God, I don't care. Oh, yeah, right.

Sarah comes in, she's like, hey, you forgot the thing we're supposed to go to. And he goes, oh, I almost forgot. And I'm like, no, you just regular forgot. And she reminded you, dude. You're fucking liar. We saw it happen. You know what I just remembered? The thing you just reminded me of.

Yeah. But they remember that they have to go out and see Farmer Dan, right? So they go out, they drive about to see Farmer Dan. Farmer Dan drives up on a tractor as farmers are want to do, right? Yeah, they're like, okay, so what happened ostensibly is that Farmer Dan called him on the phone and said, I need to see you in person. Come meet me in the middle of a field. Yes, right.

And then, of course, this is, he gets out to the field and there's like, can we, like, can you leave your wife in the car while we man talk, some man talk? literally wait in the truck. Yes, yeah, exactly. We don't want to just fail the Bechdale test here. We'd like to murder it. So, but yeah, but this is where he finds out that they're firing him for letting that black guy pray. The church doesn't want him there anymore.

Oh, my God. And this reeks of Trump supporter, right? Hey, I know I asked you to drive an hour and a half out onto my property and I greatly inconvenienced you to fire you. But I believe in looking a man in the, I don't give a whole. I don't give a fuck what you believe in, Jethro. Well, look, if Jethro believes... I can remove all of your teeth with my bare hand. Minimal effort.

So, okay, look, if Jethro believes in looking a man in the eye when he gives him bad news, go to him. Right. Right? Like, go to his fucking house. Ring his fucking doorbell. You know, don't drive... I believe in, like, look in your eye, which is why I made you come to me.

Yeah, which is why I didn't get off my tractor. Fuck you. Suck his dick. That's how you get your revenge. You just get down there and suck his dick a little bit and he's like, oh, and then you're like, no one will ever believe you. Drive away. And then it's a way better movie.

Exactly. Way better. Kara gets it. Yep. So, yeah, but if they drive off, Sarah's narration shows up to be like, he was real hurt by all that. And I'm like, well, obviously, I mean, we watched it happen. We're watching the movie. So, okay.

But just when it looked, and also like Dad's Dead and the publishing company is not doing so well, and just when it looked like they were going to have to close down the publishing company, they got a great offer from some. investor group from California that wanted to buy it. This scene doesn't matter. Hey, can you tell us who the person is? No. No, I think

you should meet them tomorrow morning at the office. At 9 a. That's the whole scene. That's it. That's it. Nailed it. Yep. Yep. Yep. So, okay, so now he's going to go meet with the mystery investor. And wouldn't you know it, it's Mr. Carthage or whatever the fuck the guy would. The guy was pulling down. Simon Clarege.

Simon Clarege. The other named character in the movie. It's the bad guy coach from earlier in the movie. But imagine how weird this would have been if it had been anybody but him. Right. If you had just been like, hi, I'm Dan Scragonal. I like

a couple of the books your dad did. I don't know why I had to, you meet me here for breakfast. I feel like we could have just gone at some kind of paper signing when the introduction could have happened. Yeah. But so they're like, yeah, well, you know, we'll keep you on doing your job as the

publisher, which would be weird since you ran this company out of business. But if you want to keep your job, you need to denounce all this grace doctrine shit that the movie's apparently about. And he's not ready to do that. These people are way too invested. Yeah. Why do they care so much? Because it's heresy. Heresy. Because they have a way that dragons fuck all right. Because it's all made up. Here's the problem, right? When you're a lie, Carrie, you're a very honest person. So let me bring you into my world. Okay. When you're lying. lot for a living. Nobody gets to fuck with the lie. If someone else is like, oh yeah, no, we were at Jimmy's house. We played ping pong.

No, no, don't change the detail. If we can, if we examine the lie, someone's going to go, what if the whole thing's not true? And then we have to pay taxes and stop fucking kids. Yeah. Be a G. That's the amazing thing is 90% of this movie is people just, eyes wide. being like, hey, Edward, can I talk to you over here? And him being like, I don't see nothing about them. You don't see anything in that Bible. It's made by Bronze Age people who wiped with their hand and then ate with that same hands, Edward.

Your house is free. Fucking shut up. Well, as you resign yourself to the fact that this really is all the plot you're going to get. We're going to take a quick break, but first let me give Act 3 the hard sell. How does the blending of Gahena, Shiole, and Tartarus in the New Testament complicate a uniform doctrine of eternal torment? To what extent is the eternal punishment scenario in the gospel's articulating Jewish apocalyptic ideas of annihilationism? How does the study of the Greek word ainos impact the debate between conditionalists and traditionalists views of hell? Find out the answers

to literally these questions when we return for the tedious conclusion of hell and Mr. Fudge. What about resting your knees on coconuts? That's got to build a muscle, right? What part of this is a bad idea, don't you understand? Pretty much all of it, if I'm being honest. You know what? That's fair. Hey guys. You ready to finish up the show? Yeah, guess it turns out Carrot isn't going to help me be a fitness influencer after all.

Eli, if you want to get in shape this year, you should try FitBod. What's FitBod? Really, Kara, two points, one episode. I'm driving to San Francisco for you. Fine. FitBod customizes every workout and adapts as you improve to avoid boredom and plateaus on your journey. That sounds great. It is.

FitBod creates a personalized workout routine based on your goals, fitness level, and available equipment so I can get a great workout in whether I'm in a fully stock gym or an empty hotel room. That's why I, Noelusions, personally endorse FitBod. All right, Noah. I'm sold. Where do I sign up? Level up your workout in the new year. Join FitBod today to get your first. personalized workout plan, get 25% off your subscription, or try the app for free for seven days at FitBod.me slash gam. That's F-I-T-B-O-D-M-E-S-GAM. All right, Noah, thanks. So you were going to help

him be a fitness influencer? No, but I pepper sprayed him. I thought it was perfume. It made you throw up. I didn't say it was good perfume. Excuse me. Is anyone sitting here? No. Oh, Great, may I? Sure. So, uh, how long have you been a demon? It's my first day, actually. I, uh, opened a haunted box. Haunted box, classic way to turn into a demon.

They tell you what you're doing yet? Oh, yes. I'm going to haunt the house for a while, of course, but then I'm going to torture men who kill their wives. Oh, my God. Amazing gig. You just, you just started and you got that? Yeah, yeah, first day. What about you?

Hmm? What kind of demon are you? Oh, I do all sorts of stuff. I don't really tie myself down to one job. Well, I didn't realize we had those kinds. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I tempted kings and princes. I'm in charge of all the unbaptized babies.

I'm sorry, sorry. What? Oh, kings and princes. Yeah, like their sons. No, no, no, no. The other thing you said. Uh, fine. I am in charge of torturing the unbaptized babies.

forever, okay? Like, um, babies, babies, babies. Yep, babies, babies, babies. Why does everyone ask, baby, but that's what a baby means. Okay, okay, I see, but like, how do you... Trust me, you don't want to know. No, you're right, I don't.

Actually, I think I see some friends over there. I'm just going to go say hi. Sometimes they're toddlers. It's not just babies. Right, I'm just gonna... Right, I'll see you around. No, you won't. No, I will not.

And we're back for still more of this shit. We're going to rejoin the action with a little Edward is bummed about getting fired montage, which is mostly hay-based. In the voiceover, he's like, Joe Mark stayed my friend. And I'm like, why would he not stay your friend, Edward? Yeah. Well, 1970s, Alabama, I guess, maybe. That's true.

But so this eventually results with him chatting with Joe Mark about Bible stuff, right? And this is where he's talking about how in Jude, it says, eternal fire about a fire that wasn't eternal. I like Disneyland. Big shout out to Joe Mark to trying to change this subject. Look, here's the thing. We're just watching the movie. Joe Mark had to put up with this shit for 30 years.

And by this point in the movie, he was just like, anything but the stupid Bible thing. None of it's real. Because we literally never see him talk about any other thing, right? It's either directly or tangentially related to this fucking argument about universal grace and the lack of eternal punishment or

sorry, sorry, no or it's that, it's just that. It's just that. But his point, I guess, here is that, you know, God just says eternal all the time. He likes to exaggerate that God. He's fucking God. The conclusion I have at this point in the movie is that God lies

sometimes. So then we cut to, he's typing on these little index cards. That's where he's putting all his research, I guess. and this is where he gets a call from Don Holloway. Don wants to meet him for lunch. They haven't seen each other in years, right? So he goes to tell Sarah, and Sarah's like,

you should fight him. You should fight him with your fist of your teeth. You should fight him and lose while I watch. And she, I don't know if this actress fucking vamps this line, what happened? But he's like, I guess I'm a glass half full person. And she's like, but honey, you got to remember sometimes people want to take that glass and hit.

No, you're drinking at, okay, you're the glass and you're half full of hope, but Don Halloway is going to fuck, never mind. I'll complain about laundry when you're back. God, I hate this movie. It's so bad.

Yeah, but she's like, watch her back. And I'm like, you can't fool me into thinking there's tension in this fucking movie. So then we're going to go to lunch. They're going to go to lunch together, right? Because he's like, well, you know, one way the other, I get a free lunch out of it. And I'm like, oh, there you go.

Look at the bright side of things. So we go to this lunch place called the Red Caboos. There's these two old guys and they're like, well, we're here going to do some picking for you. And they start playing guitar. Yeah, that's the best, best scene in the movie. Best seconds of the movie, yes. By the way, Eli, anytime you tell me Anna has a gig, this is what I picture, right?

I picture picking up. Can I tell you? You're 100% accurate. I was pretty sure that one. He goes, would you like, Edward comes in and sees Don. would you like a sweet tea? And he goes, and I quote, well, I'd turn down a bucket of doorknobs for that.

What? Is that a real expression, Noah? I don't think that it is. Has anyone ever told you about what they would or wouldn't do for a bucket of doorknobs? I don't know, man. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Like a bucket of doorknobs.

I can't imagine when that would come in handy. It's melt them down for the brass. God. we should have finished him off during the Civil War We really This is a terrible Should have gone Carthaginian on that Yeah

Yes, exactly This is This is It was a bad idea So and also by the way Speaking of people we should have taken out Don Holloway Holiday at this point

He whistles to get the server's attention So he can go fuck himself Yeah But he's like You know I think we should just let bygones Be bygones I sure am sorry

I went at your hermeneutics So hard in that book review And I'm also sure sorry that you got fired for letting an African-American dude preach. Oh, and I'm sorry that your dad's dead. Don't forget that. Oh, sorry that your dad's dead also. Wow, damn, I am so sorry for so much you are at the nadir. You all went out for Indian food the other night and you asked it for mild, spicy,

but they gave you regular spicy. And you ate it because, like, it feels vaguely racist to tell someone that food is too spicy when it's their national cuisine. So you had the shits for like a week and a half. And at the end of that week and a half, you were like, I think I might be really sick. Like something's wrong. I'm also sorry about that. I'm sorry about that. But he's like, you know, he's like, well, you know, I was just sitting here thinking about how we're standing on a dam that we built to hold back God's grace.

And Don Holloway's like, wow, man, you literally have not had a new thought since college, have you? Just the same goddamn thought. And he's like, yeah. Mm-hmm. So, okay. So then sometime later, Joe comes in while he's working and he's got some bad news, Holloway wrote another hit piece about him in their little magazine lit. Right?

Who cares? I don't fucking know. You know, Sarah Faye, she saw that one coming. She did. She's all coming. Yeah, she did. She called it. So he's like, you know, what we need to do is have a very small meeting with Holloway and the church elders

where you can say the same damn shit you've been saying this entire fucking movie. So they go to this meeting and he's like, oh, I was only expecting 15 elders, but it turned out there was a full church of people waiting to hear how wrong I was. It's a trap. Yeah, yeah, he's trapped.

Shouldn't have worn this bell bottom suit. He should always wear that bell bottom suit. But there's a great moment here too where he's like, go, he's walking into the lion's den. And Holloway's wife coming. up to Sarah Fay, and she's like, I am very sorry for how bad my husband's about to wipe the floor with Edward. I genuinely am. Sorry, I have sort of the opposite kink of yours, and so I've really been enjoying how many lives have been going.

We should, honestly, we should probably keep this going because you're... Edward, are you working on that movie? Make sure that you mention that the guy's wife came up to me and she was like, I'm sorry, because I'm a full person with a complex inner life as well. advert. And this may be the only lasting representation of it on tubi.com. So if you would please relate my inner experience into the universe so that the eventual all-knowing AI will verify I was a person.

I think my favorite part of this scene is the way that Eli spelled the word baloney. Oh my God, because he knows there's a G in there somewhere, right? That stuck. Somehow that stuck and nothing else did. Yeah. Blah. Blagney. Blagney.

Can I tell you guys, for the sketch, which you've already heard, podcast listener, I wrote the word annihilationist from my heart.

And I, for I think the first time in our work history went, I'm going to Google how that word is about it. Kara doesn't have

the hour and a half of study it takes. Why does it begin with a J? So, okay, so Edward starts off his defense of his thesis or whatever, right? He says a bunch of Jesus words. He's like, you know, people interpret the Bible differently. That doesn't happen with most books anywhere near as often as it does with the perfect word of God,

which is, well, that's weird if you think about it. It didn't seem like how God would write a book at all. And then Holloway cuts in in the middle of this thing just like takes the mic over. He's like, wait a minute, are you? Do you mean to tell me that cat? He goes, you mean to tell me that Catholics are going to be in heaven? He's like, well, yes, and everybody's like gasping or whatever. I'm not sure of heaven with Catholics.

And then, fucking, you know, and Hollow is like, well, if anybody would like to speak in his defense, go right ahead. So that's when Arvid McGuire stands up. Now, you might be thinking to yourself, oh, you've neglected to mention Arvin McGuire during your review of the movie. and we have no idea who the fuck this person is. Welcome to the goddamn club. We literally have not met this character yet. But he stands up at this point and he goes, I would like to say a few words.

And we're like, who? They even have a little confessional where he shows up and he's like, yeah, I don't really think my words accomplished much of anything. Everybody was a previous to say. I hope it's not because that would be really weird. Why would I even be there? What are you trying to desperately to hit 90 minutes

and failing by five, and a half minutes. So, and then there's also, like, before they started their speeches, there's this moment where Holloway says they've printed up cards with all the Halloway's opinions on one side and Edwards' opinions on the other. Is that what they were? Yeah. Uh-huh.

There's no stakes. I don't care. Right. But as everyone, now there's stakes. Wait, they're about to be stakes because as everybody's leaving, the cards are missing. Oh. Huh? Who took the cards?

There's a mystery now. So as he's leaving, as though the movie wanted to answer Kara's charge that there are no stakes, an old lady just randomly comes up and slaps Edward for his blasphemies. Yeah, that was fun. And then they were like, that was interesting. Yeah. And they're like, yeah, it was interesting getting slapped by that old woman. Yeah, he's like, be sure put in that part where I got my ass kicked by that old lady.

That always turns my wife on when we talk about that. She loves that part. It's her favorite part of the story. So that night. actually calls it the time I got slapped in the face. So that night, Edward, Sarah, Edward's mom, and Joe, they all go to the Fudge House to lick their wounds after he got his ass kicked in that debate, right? The Fudge House, I don't like it.

Don't say that again. I've already asked so much of you this weekend, Kara, that's fair. That's my new nickname for sex, Kara. I'm going to be like, taking you to the Fudge. It's just there's something about it. You've been a good girl. It's time for you to get a trip to the Fudge. Oh, God.

It tastes like as good as it spells. What is it? Okay, taste as good as it smells. You invented. That's on you. You're coming up with new love crafty and horse now, Karen, Santa Maria. I said as it's spelled. Not smell.

I hope it tastes better than it smells. Didn't he say something weird like it's spelled like it tastes? Yeah, yeah, exactly. It makes no fucking sense. So they're all sitting around talking. this is where we learned that mom's the one that stole the position cards. I like the mom in this movie. She's kind of a fucking badass.

Fuck, yeah. She hated her husband. Hated her husband. She steals some shit. Good for her. There's also, there's a great moment here where he gets so fucking close. He goes, you know, here I am with a master's degree in this.

And I feel like I don't know fact from fiction. That's literally what he fucking says. Yeah, he goes, the Bible is so full of conflicting information. It's like, you think. Oh, wow. You didn't notice. that when you were in college? Jesus. So we get another

fucking hit in the book's montage. Oh yeah, there are multiple times in this film, which we didn't mention before, but there are multiple times in this film where he's reading while driving. Yeah. Well, that's it, yeah, right, that's where this one starts. His buddy, Joe Mark, drives up behind him and he has to hog the horn

because he's just sitting there at the stop sign reading a book. I'm like, that's not a level of research, man. If you're reading while you're driving, that's a psychosis thing. No, no, I get it. I play fish him in the car while I drive sometimes because I'm bored. If you have ever ridden in the car with Eli, just don't. Yeah, right.

Honestly, like him playing Candy Crush didn't change a damn thing, right? No, I was torn because Eli very kindly picked me up from, I think, JFK, and drove me to White Plains, New York. Oh, Jesus. Twice, which is like next level friendship. And at the same time, I was so afraid I was. going to die. The whole time I was in the car,

that I was like, I'm grateful and also really don't want to be here right now. Yes, exactly. You never felt more alive than when you got out of that hotel in White Plains. They were like, wow, Kara must really be excited for Noticon. She's kissing the ground,

crying, calling your loved ones. So this is also, by the way, so there's a moment here where he's like, we see his wife and kids, eating without him. And I wrote my nose, like, fuck, did he have kids? Right?

Because they haven't factored into the movie at all to this point. Well, yeah, you know, kids don't count just like women. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. We also get to see cute fat dog again. He's sitting on the roof of his car while he plays ping pong. Yeah, we get to see him. Yeah, and then we get the dramatic index card toss, right?

Yeah. This is the point in the film where it could have gone full John Nash and gotten interesting. Like, don't you think it could have been, like, very much a beautiful mind? Because it does feel like that's where they're going with things. Oh, okay. All right. Like, there was no Joe Mark this whole time or whatever.

Yeah, like, he's so obsessed with this thing, but, like, there was no Holloway. Like, it was. There's no Bible at all. The Bible was all in his mind. Yeah. Yeah, but he throws his index cards and Sarah rushes in to clean him up and he's like, leave him on the ground. And she's like, well, fine.

It's your office. Be all messed up. But this is where she tells me, she's like, you know, I'm going to take the kids to my moms and we're going to stay here until you're done with all this fucking bullshit you're doing. Reasonable. And like what really happened is that, like,

and if you've ever fucking written a book, you understand this. Like what really happened is like they left for three weeks so he could have the house to himself while he finished his book and he could be 100% you know, dedicated to that or whatever. But they make it in the movie. They have to make it into this dramatic.

Like, we can't even be here. You're so. single-minded with your obsession for the... It's like, no, he's just writing a fucking book, right? Right. Exactly what happened, right? She was like, hey, we're going to my moms for the weekend and he was like, hon, I really got to work on my hellbook and she was like, fine. Yeah, right. Piece of shit. Yeah. And he was like, put it in the movie like it was a big dramatic moment where maybe you were

leaving me. Right. Yeah, exactly. And then we have, but we now have to see him like still working on this hellbook, but she's gone. So like, the house is all dirty and how, how do these dishes even work, right? Just living like Keith and Rain for the emotional peak of the movie, eating cereal over the sink. There's actually pretty great. I get to think about hell stuff and nobody comes and touches my stuff. It's great. It's awesome.

But now it's time for him to have his Jeff Goldblum moment. Yes. Yeah, he has his breakthrough during ping-point practice. He runs to Joe Mark's house in the middle of the night. Joe Mark shows up with some champagne. and a rose and he goes, oh, it's Bible stuff. All right, fuck shit, it's Bible stuff. Yeah, this is weird to me because he gets to Joe Marks' house

and he has like a big wrap around porch. He's got like porch swings. There's flowers all over his house. And I'm like, does he live alone? Does he have a wife? Yeah. Does he live with his mother? The thruple argument is getting more and more viable, I think, as we go.

Yeah, this is like a big love situation where they like share the same backyard. you know, but they go to the different houses to fuck. Yeah. So, yeah, but he's had this big breakthrough. He explains to Joe Mark, he's like, you know that whole immortal soul thing? Turns out there's no such thing as an immortal soul. That's not in the Bible at all. That's a pagan idea that we got from Turtulian.

Yeah, he said it comes from Plato and Socrates. And I'm like, that makes it pagan? I guess. Yeah. Everything pre-Christian is pagan, isn't it? Also, like, it's very easy to sympathize with the Anilist position because it's closer to the truth than the insane thing it's reflecting on. But the Bible definitely talks about an immortal soul. It talks about it a lot.

I mean, a lot of the stuff it says doesn't make any goddamn sense if there's no immortal soul. Yeah. Right. Like the examples that he uses are just like, well, there's no example of an immortal soul in hell. But there's lots of examples of immortal souls in heaven, including. very explicit instructions by Jesus Christ about how to have one. So the Bible very clearly does say

there are immortal souls. True, true. He doesn't specify here that he means the bad ones. Right. Just the bad ones. Right. Yeah, exactly. So, but then we get the documentarian asking for like clarification of that last scene, right?

And he does more just fucking Bible minutia at us. Like I have notes written here and I'm just like, God, Jesus, I don't want to go to all the trouble of explaining what. any of my notes mean. This is boring as fuck. His big takeaway here is that believers live forever, but we just won't call it in a mortal soul in heaven.

And then everyone else just rots, right? And just dies. Yeah, just dies and rots, but doesn't actually burn forever in hell. He spent 90 minutes of a Christian movie for Edward Fudge to spend his entire life researching to be half right. Yeah, and he's like, well, I finally finished my research. it turns out I've proved exactly the thing that I've thought since college.

What are the odds? It turns out that the impulse I had as a third grader is true. Yes. Right. So now, okay, so he goes to see Arvid, that rando that spoke up for him at the church, who is. Oh, yeah, he's just on his port swing, Whitland. Literally on his porch swing Whitland.

It's so silly. But he's like, you know, he says, there's no hell and I can prove it. And I'm like, not as well as I can, man. Yeah, he's really stretching the definition of proved and evidence in a lot of these scenes. He goes, you know, a feller wants to do a radio interview with me about it. And I'm like, oh, please tell me this movie's going to culminate a ye oldie podcast episode. Just telling Joe Rogan about how there's no hell. Yeah.

Whoa. But Arvid gives him some wisdom. He gives him the just the tip just to see how it feels philosophy of preaching new ideas. Right? He's like, you can't just, you got to lube them up for these kind of things. They're going to be mad at you. Yeah, they're just going to tighten up that sphincter. So careful.

Well, literally, too. So now it's time for the dramatic interview, right? Which is a friendly interview. Right? Like, I thought at the very least this interview that he was saying it was going to be contentious and that this guy was going to be challenging. But if the guy's like, not. That's pretty cool, man.

That's, wow. No hell, huh? Cool, man. Good for you. Yeah, and he's like, he's like the only not Southern person in the movie. So just by comparison, because of his voice, he seems really intelligent. Sorry, Southern listeners. She said it.

He's literally. No, and I'm from Texas. All right. You're allowed to say. Yeah, she went to the Juniper Boongerner. What? Did you put her house? That one.

Oh. No, but yeah, he sits down. I guess this is supposed to be like a callback to his dad being a radio guy. Yeah. That's so fucking stupid. Yeah. So, but then we catch back up with the original doodily do of the film, right? That's where he was indent in Texas, fresh from the fucking Jupiter house, about to have his big, like, like, Holloway is introducing him to this church where he's going to have the same fucking thing again, right?

The same thing we've done over and over and over again in this movie, right? Like, he's going to present the same fucking shit. Right. So he goes out and he's like, you know, Halloway's introduced him. He goes, here's a man who's actually going to burn in the hell that he doesn't believe in. I give you Edward Fudge, right? Honestly, I wish I would start getting introduced that way. Just like, you got it, buddy. You got it. Yay. But then like he goes out and he's all nervous because he thinks everybody's going to be mad at him again like they have every other time in the movie where he preached about this shit. But a bunch of people like, oh, captain my captain him. right they'll stand up we're with you fudge

and like so the title of his talk which is also the title of his book is hell is simply a fire that consumes yes yeah the fire that consumes is the name of the book what does that mean so the idea is that when they're talking about your soul burning in hell

that's just how God that's like God's disposal method right when he's done with souls as he just throws him into a fire that consumes them and that's better That's better than suffering for eternity, I guess. I don't know. I feel like suffering for eternity is better than oblivion if I had to choose between one or the other.

And it doesn't even sound like good oblivion. It sounds like burn to death. Well, yeah. You end screaming and in pain one way or the other, yeah. So he's like comforted by the fact that his friend Davy, who was never baptized and drunk drove and died, instead of being tortured in hell forever, is just consumed by hell fire. He's just nowhere. He's in the oblivion screaming. Well, but specifically screamed his way into the oblivion by having his face melted off.

Yes. Yeah. Yes. That's the better review. That's like because he's more progressive than the traditionalists. That's some hokum. Yeah, right. Yeah.

That's the progressive hokum that we're after. But yeah. So, yes, he just states his fucking position for the 14th time in the movie. But this time everybody claps because it's the end of the movie. Right. And then the like the breakfast club clothes comes up or the American graffiti clothes comes up and it says that the research was published in the book The Fire That Consumes, which is quote, one of the most influential books about hell ever written. One of. Yeah, right. You know, it's currently sitting at number 4,104 in the Christian evangelism category on Amazon. So. It's one of...

You did it, Fudge. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And also Fudge turned into a lawyer because there's no money in this preaching shit if you don't believe in hell, I guess. I'm going to get a real job. Yeah. And I guess, yeah, somehow less than nothing has happened and we're done. The movie's over. Kara, I cannot say thank you enough. No, you cannot. Literally, yeah, right.

No. And of course, if you want to hear what Kara sounds like when she isn't recalling trauma, be sure to check the show notes for a link to talk nerdy. And while that does it for our review of Hell and Mr. Fudge, that's not going to do it for the episode just yet, because we still need to insert next episode T's here. So Eli, tell us what's on deck. Family hiding in Roman Egypt. Son known as the boy doubts Guardian the carpenter,

rebelling with mysterious powers. As he uses his abilities, they face natural and divine horrors. We'll be watching Nicholas Cage. In the spooktacular retelling of the Apocrypha of Thomas that is the carpenter's son. All right. So with Nicholas the fuck cage to look forward to,

we're going to bring episode 543 to a merciful close. Once again, a huge thanks to all the Patreon donors to help make the show go. If you'd like yourself among their range, you can make a per episode donation at patreon. com.com slash Godawful. And thereby an early access to an ad-free version of every episode. You can also help a ton by leaving a five-star review

and by sharing the show on all your various social media platforms. And if you enjoy this show, be sure check out of siblings, The Scathing Avis Cating Avis Claim-D-N-D-Mindus at the script for out of the video tovvvvom.com. and takes care of our social media. Our theme song was written and performed by Rice, like the people, dress on Mars.

All the other music was written and performed by our audio engineer, Morgan Clark, and was used with permission. Thanks again for giving us to check your life this week. For Heath, Enright and Eli Bosick, I'm No Illusions, promise to work hard or earned on the check next week. Until then, we'll leave you with the American graffiti clothes.

Here we go. Edward Fudge went on systematically to prove other not real things in the Bible, like burning bushes and bathroom towers and birds and births and whatnot, show on, show on, show, four, coconuts, below, and we pseudography. A Herman needed. It's my new cell phone ring. It turns out

Dawkins couldn't actually talk, neither. Kurt Cameron watched this movie and broke Ray Comfort's heart. This content is canned credentialed, which means you can report instances of harassment, abuse, or other harm to their hotline at 617-249-4-255 or on their website at creatoraccountabilitynetwork.org. This podcast is a podcast.

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