Going Deep with Chad and JT - Ep. 47 - Dr. Shawn Baker, Steak, Flying Dutchman

Episode Date: December 5, 2018

In ep 47, we go deeper into the diet world as we bring on Dr. Shawn Baker, who is a major proponent of the carnivore diet. Strap yourselves in and grab some A1, stokers. Check out Dr. Baker on insta: @shawnbaker1967 and his podcast "Human Performance Outliers."

Kroger coming in with the going deep and chat JT podcast I've got my compadre John Thomas what up what up dog boom clap stokers how are you doing I'm doing pretty good man I'm excited to be here yeah and it's good to see you again we've had a week hiatus from each other and How are you doing? Thanks for having me. Wait a minute now, Chad. Aren't you the lead singer for Nickelback? Oh, no. Am I messing that up? I'm honored to share the same name as him, but no. You can't sing a little bit, maybe? I mean, I could try. Yeah, please do. This is how you remind me of what I really am.

Oh, dude, that was much better. This is how. That's a great song. Dude. Yeah. It's pretty good. Yeah. I'll pretend anyway. Yeah, yeah. Okay, awesome. that was much better. This is how. That's a great song. Dude. Yeah. It's pretty good. Yeah. I'll pretend anyway.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, awesome. Do you know any Nickelback songs? Yeah, some of them, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. I know, you know, anyway. I love Nickelback. Some people make fun of them, I think, don't they? Yeah.

They're inspiring to me. I mean, everyone who's making fun of Nickelback, it's like you don't have a fraction of the talent that guy has. You know what I mean? find a nickelback it's like you don't have a fraction of the talent that guy has yeah you know what i mean like i think it's just uh it just gets easy to pick on certain people and then it's like a momentum thing sure but uh yeah i don't think it's deserved in his case okay i mean they do are they doing anything lately have they been like popular lately i don't know they're like more like 10 years ago right that's kind of yeah i think they came out with a new album i honestly i don't know but i figure you

keep up with this sort of stuff i should have the same name i should i should be more on top of the other chad i'm biased but i would almost guarantee that they'll have three to five more top 20 hits before it's all said and done okay we'll have to what's today we have to record that and see if his prediction comes true yeah and if i'm wrong i'll wear the same goatee that chad kroger from nickelback has for the rest of my life nice and i'd like to put on record whenever a nickelback song comes on i crank it up awesome awesome i crank it up so uh dr baker you are sort of the uh leading advocate i guess you could say for the carnivore diet um yeah i think that's fair to say that i'm one of several people that are pushing us pretty hard for sure for sure yeah steak is good steak is good steak is good the car the

carnivore diet for those of you don't know it's basically it's an all meat diet it is and um for the most part i mean some people throw some eggs in there a little bit of dairy once in a while but it's mostly just to eat a bunch of damn steaks, and life is good. So it's more geared towards red meat, or do chicken? You know, it ends up being that way, and I think there's some reasons why, but most people that do it over a long period of time find they just like eating red meat. I mean, it just tastes better, it's more, it just gives you something that is almost a visceral, just, ugh. You just get that, and I think that's what most people do.

You get some chicken every once in a while. It's like an appetizer. I call chicken like the salad of the carnivore diet. It's just not going to do it long term. Ron Swanson from Parks and Rec said fish is basically a vegetable. That's right. That's probably. I mean, he's actually a pretty wise man, I think, in many ways. I'm a big fan.

I think so, yeah. He's one of my favorite characters. What's the name of the dude that does it? Nick Offerman. Nick Offerman. We've got to get him on the carnivore diet for real and see what he does. I wonder if he's already on it. He might be.

He'd probably be leaner if he was. Yeah, good call. Who's the longest tenured carnivore diet? Who's been on the diet the longest? So there was a guy that they—well,'s actually he's dead now he died in a car wreck when he was like 75 but he was on it for 53 years his name was owlsley stanley he was the he was like the sound man for the grateful dead he was like an lsd distributor back in the way he was like an he like made like he was like one of the main lsd distributorsutors and manufacturers from like the 60s.

So he started that way back then. That's crazy. Like in Western. So he went for like 53 years and was a big proponent. But right now there's a couple in Florida named Joe and Charlene Anderson. They've been doing it for 20 years. They've been doing it, you know, I think their kids have been doing it since they've been babies. And they look, I mean, they're great.

Great health. They look literally like he's 60 and he looks like he's 40. She's 45 and looks like she's 25. They look phenomenal. I reference this guy sometimes from time to time. But, yeah, there's a bunch of people that have been doing it for decades. But, I mean, honestly, I mean, you know, we can say there's people that, you know, some of these, like, northern populations, Inuit, have been doing it for thousands of years, their whole life, basically, more or less.

But, I mean, in Western society, these are the people that I'm aware of that have been doing it the longest. I've only been doing it for about two years. But I've been pretty blown away by the positives by it. So I've been kind of like this, kind of like, you know, you're like somebody who discovers something neat, you want to share the news, and everybody thinks you're crazy, right? Yeah. What are some of the positives you can outline? So, I mean, simplicity, right?

I mean, it's like how hard is nutrient? You know, like I said, if you've got a wild animal and you give him a nap and a little calculator and a menu and a macronutrient guide to tell him how to eat. He's going to look at you like, what the hell? You know, I gave my dog a Fitbit for Christmas a couple years ago. He just ate it and didn't know what to do with it anymore. I guess he couldn't figure it out. But, you know, it's simple, right?

It's like all you've got to do is eat a bunch of steak and you're fine. I mean, it's the simplest nutrition plan in the world, and people that do that do really well. It tends to be particularly satiating so people tend not to overeat on this but interestingly uh we know that as you increase protein in your diet you actually uh can get away with more calories so you can eat more protein calories and not gain as much weight and there's a recent study coming out there that uh david ludwig out of harvard just released like two weeks ago showing that with low-carb diets in particular, you get a couple hundred calorie advantage. So you've got kind of

both of those things going on. So people tend to eat a lot more. They eat until they're totally full. They get leaner. Inflammation goes away. People are having like joint pain, like we talked about before the show, probably joint pain, mental health issues like depression and anxiety, and then probably digestion are probably the biggest three issues that people see as positive. There's a whole bunch of things. But from an athletic performance standpoint, people get stronger. They tend to preserve and put on more muscle mass.

They feel better. They recover better. Libido goes up. All those good things. Yeah, it's interesting what you say about the simplicity because a lot of times you'll hear these, like, diet people and they'll be like, well, you need salmon roe for this, you need whatever, like all these different things. And you're like, it can't be.

How did humans get all that shit 50,000, 100,000 years ago? We're going to Whole Foods buying avocados and blueberries. I mean, where did that come from? It didn't. It's impossible. Yeah, it was a simpler diet. Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, if you've got all these guys' recommendations, you say, well, okay, where would I get that if I lived in Europe 50,000 years ago?

There's many of them. All of us, us guys in the room right now probably all descended from that location, just looking at it the way we look. So I was like, where would you have gotten that from? And you're like, it would have been impossible, totally impossible. But the way you could get it was a big, fatty frigging mammoth. Eat that stuff, man. Cook up some – because steak tastes good, right?

I mean, it tastes good, right? Yeah, I could eat steak all day. The same recipe we've been cooking steak is like fire plus fatty steak equals deliciousness. That recipe's been around for a million and a half years or so. It still tastes good. So there's a reason for that. That's cool.

When did you convert to the – Convert? Sounds like a religion. Sorry. No, but no. So what I did was I spent about – because I'm 50. I'll be 52 soon, so I'm an old guy but so I was uh you know about mid-40s I started saying well my my diet is catching up to me I can't keep exercising because

I've been an athlete and exercising hard my whole life so when I got my 40s I was like okay I got to change diet because I can't just keep eating whatever I want and so when I started doing that I progressed through a low-fat vegetable- rich you know lean meat diet for a while lost some weight doing that but felt crappy then went on a paleo primal diet for a while then went on low carb diet then went on keto diet over about five or six years and then finally uh right at two years ago i started switching over to a carnivorous diet and that's where i've been since that time that's cool yeah i um i was talking about this earlier but uh sort of been into diet since like 2012 because uh my dad had a heart attack and then that sort of like focused us on it because he's working out all the time he's in

great shape you know so like i always think he works out all the time but then we're like you know diet is a major component so uh he went vegan for like the first year after, and then it got worse. So now he's on a low-carb, high-protein. And he feels great, looks great. Yeah, hopefully his cardiac function is better too, yeah. Yeah, he's on top of it. He's a doctor, so he's always, you know, he's staying on top of it. But he looks good.

And I think one thing that's huge too is he feels satiated. You know, he can go with the other diets he you know with the high carb or he'd have like smoothies and stuff you just have to eat all day yeah hungry people eat garbage because you're hungry all the time you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna see a cupcake from across the room out of the corner of your eye with that peripheral vision you're gonna zip right over there and snap that thing right up man yeah because you're hungry you can't avoid it but you can sit there like, I haven't eaten yet today. I mean, you know, hopefully I don't get crazy and go cannibalistic after one of you guys.

No, but I mean, I can probably go 24 hours, 36 hours without food, and I'm totally fine if I need to. So it's not a big deal. And that, again, that sort of lines up with what might have happened. It's not convenient to, you know, you didn't have a microwave, again, 50,000 years ago. It wasn't easy, convenient to what you know you didn't have a microwave again 50 000 years ago it wasn't easy convenient to cook food and so you know you think about cooking you know you didn't survive i'm not i was amazed how you survived in the wild where was that anyway it was like some wild jungles in central america where were you the other day was that was that

on a hiking trail down locally but i'll do that i was in new mexico okay oh gotcha so the coyotes and the rattlesnakes and all that stuff, so you survived. I encountered a few, and I survived, yeah. So where in New Mexico were you? You were in Santa Fe? I was in Santa Fe. Oh, nice. Yeah, there's some nice trails around there.

So anyway, but if you think about it, if you had to cook your own meal, I mean, you wouldn't be doing meals every two hours, right? You'd have to scrape up all the cooking supplies, get your little flint rack and do that stuff. And so, again, we probably weren't eating 12 times a day like we do now. It wasn't convenient. So I like something called intermittent feasting. So I just frigging just load up. I mean, I eat like I was at In-N-Out. We talked about that. And I had 10 of those Flying Dutchmans. That's like a little over two pounds of meat, just crushed it in one sitting.

Yeah. And then I'm good for like, well, I had two ribeyes for dinner after that, but I mean, but then I'm good. I mean, I'm not hungry right now and I haven't eaten in,

I haven't eaten in 16 hours. Yeah. I'm totally fine. That's awesome. So, um, does your whole family do the, uh,

carnivore diet? So my little boy sort of does. He always rebels cause he likes, he likes to eat some junk food sometimes. He wants to eat that stuff. And Danny, I want to eat some sugar. I'm to eat some junk food sometimes he wants to eat that stuff and daddy i want to eat some sugar i'm like no you don't need to eat that stuff but my girlfriend who was a vegetarian when i met her it's kind of funny she was i remember when i was dating her she's from france telling me she's a vegetarian like how in the hell can you be from france and be a vegetarian i mean i got so much

good non-vegetarian food all the cream and the butter and all the sauces they cook with yeah and you know and she was but she felt like her guts were all jacked up, but she wasn't feeling good. And then slowly over the years, she's now, she's probably about 90% carnivore. Like she eats red meat every single meal. She may throw in, you know, like some, some avocado or some, a few things like that. But I mean, she's pretty much 90% and feels the best she's ever felt in her life. My kids, cause I got four of them probably

another one coming on down the road but i've got um and they eat a bunch of meat i mean like and they steal it from me which i'm kind of i'm kind of regretting kind of introducing them to this now because when i cook a nice thing they start swirling around like little little sharks and they're like daddy i want i want this one i want this bite here. They always take the best stuff because they know like on the ribeye, you have a ribeye with a rib cap

which is, if you look at it, there's like a little cap of rib and it's extra. It's just extra goodness. You know, Costco sells like rib cap steaks that are,

they take the rib caps and they put a couple of them together and that's just like, that's like one of the best experiences in the world. That's awesome. So the kids,

yeah, the kids do that. But then they eat some fruit and they eat a little dairy and a few other snacks here and there. But the nice thing, if you guys ever figure out how to create kids, when you guys learn how to do that stuff, you guys will find that if you feed those kids a lot of fat and protein and meat, they don't pester you all the time for snacks. Because kids are like, I want to eat, I want to eat, I want to eat constantly.

So you're just like, here you go, eat like six of these In-N-Out patties and you're good. You ain't got to hear from them for the rest of the day. Yeah. It's nice. That's awesome. Yeah, I've been trying to go keto basically pretty much since June, which I'm sort of a – my brother's on a carnivore diet and he loves it. So I'm sort of. So you got the genetics for it, right?

Yeah, yeah, he's thriving. He looks good. Do you know, you ever guys heard of that blood type diet where they talk about eat for your blood type if you're an ape type? So for the carnivore diet, there's a blood type diet. If you got red blood, it works really well. Red blood works well for the carnivore diet.

So if you got green or yellow or blue, you might want to be on there. Like green, you might be on a vegan diet. If you've got green blood, probably vegan diet. Spinach. I think so. Spinach kale. Yeah, but I noticed digestion was a huge thing. When I started cutting carbs, I basically went to like zero digestion issues.

Yeah, that's a real common thing we find. There's a lot of people, a lot of people have irritable bowel syndrome. About 15, 20% of the U.S. population is growing. It continues to grow. And I think there's a lot of things that we ingest that we're not well designed to. We're not supposed to be walking around farting and bloated all day. That's not normal. But people think some of these vegan advocates will tell you, well, that's normal because humans used to be outside, so they farted all the time.ated all that's not normal but people think some of these vegan advocates advocates will tell you that's normal because humans used to be outside so they farted

all the time no that's not really you don't you know when you breathe you don't talk about wheezing and gasping and coughing is not a normal part of breathing yeah there's something going on there same thing with you know you're not supposed to have joint pain when you move you're not supposed to have chest pain when you're exercising those aren't normal things so yeah painful digestion is not a normal thing and that's one of the most uh dramatic things about a carnivore diet is most people they know all bloating goes away all the just discomfort goes away you know certainly after a transition period and so that's really neat yeah that's cool that the kind of my brother always talks about the idea of like ever since he's been on this diet the idea of just like feeling good and then you die you don't have

to deal with any of like well i mean yeah you're gonna die at some point yeah yeah you're gonna die at some point and it's like what are we gonna die of i don't know i mean you know whatever i die of the vegans are gonna blame it's on the meat. If I get hit by a bus, yeah, the meat caused it or something like that. Yeah, I mean, there's no reason to spend your life in your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s in pain, disabled, which we see so many people, and we see that commonly. And that's not normal. That's common, but it's not normal. You have to figure out how to not have that happen to

you diet helps um what do you think about so i think one of the main questions with the diet is the idea of um i wrote down uh oh like nutrient deficiencies i think yeah yeah so it's interesting so most people will say things like scurvy vitamin vitamin C, right? We know that meat doesn't meet the RDA for vitamin C. But interestingly, we've known for about 120 years since these polar expeditions that fresh meat would cure scurvy and would prevent scurvy. And so we do know that the USDA never really tested meat to check to see if there was any. They said presumed zero. There's other independent testing that have been done that have shown that there is

access to vitamin C in meat. But more importantly, and this goes in general, the RDAs were developed based on a grain-eating carb-based population. And so we know that those vitamins and minerals and cofactor requirements are changed and they're upregulated when you have a high-carbohydrate diet, like magnesium, for instance. You need much more magnesium as a cofactor for a carbohydrate diet than you do for a non-carbohydrate diet.

Vitamin C, the same thing sort of appears to happen. If we have higher glucose around, vitamin c absorption is decreased in the gut there's and same thing across the mitochondria so there's transporters that vitamin c shares with glucose and when vitamin c is in higher concentrations that competitively inhibits vitamin c from crossing over so you need less the same thing with vitamin c is a factor used in making collagen, and they do this through a couple substances called hydroxylysine and hydroxyproline. We have transporters for those in our gut, and if you're eating it, like through meat, you don't need as much, so you don't need to make as much.

And additionally, vitamin C is an antioxidant. When you go on a low-carbohydrate diet, your natural endogenous antioxidants that your body makes itself, like glutathione and some of these others, automatically upregulate. So the requirements go down. So there's a change. So to say that me on a carnivore diet requires the same amount of vitamins and nutrients as somebody else on a high-carbohydrate diet is not accurate. So we have to put it in perspective. That's a one-size-fits-all RDA, which doesn't fit everybody.

So no one on this diet, and I've seen thousands upon thousands of people do it, has gotten scurvy, none, zero. And they're not eating, they're not taking vitamin C supplements, they're not eating a bunch of liver or muck tuck or the things that they say the Inuit did. It's just not happening. And so the most logical answer to that is the requirements based on the RDA, which interestingly, even the people that produce the RDA say it's

based on very weak levels of evidence. The Institute of Medicine criticized it saying it's based just on expert opinion. So basically some guy just kind of pulled it out of his rear end and said, this is what the RDA for this particular, I'm being a little facetious on that, but basically it's not been rigorously tested, and so it's kind of more of a guess. You know, when they first came out with the calcium requirements, back in the 1940s,

the RDAs were developed to deal with soldiers overseas figuring out what we need to feed these guys. So when they were doing the calcium requirements, one of the original persons that was doing this, they looked at guys eating white bread and chicken and some milk and said, this is what the diet is for calcium based on two guys. So that was our data.

So it's kind of like we don't really know for sure, quite honestly. But the answer is no one is getting any symptoms of vitamin deficiencies. And, again, we can look at these populations like the Inuit, the Inuit or the Maasai or the Sami or all these different populations or the Gauchos in South America. None of them had scurvy. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting.

It is interesting. Got a new way to look at things. We have a lot of assumptions around nutrition that are just assumptions. We never tested them. Yeah. I love the idea of just the simplicity of it. It's just – It is simple.

You know, it's like you go, what am I supposed to eat? Because people – some guy asked me the other day. He sent me a little thing on Instagram, I think. And he goes, hey, can you explain to me in detail what the carnivore diet is and how to implement it? And I sent him a steak emoji. And that was my answer. That's it, man.

It's just like it's all you got to do. It's just eat a bunch of frigging steak, and the rest will take care of it. And it's hard because we're so used to complicated. You know, like my dog, I don't got to explain the diet to him. I throw him some food, and he's good, and he's fine. And wild animals are the same way. So it's just like it really is that simple. Just got to eat the meat.

When you're eating a human species-appropriate diet, good things happen. And I think all the rest of that stuff is just flavor. Flavor enhancement is decoration. You don't really need that stuff. But you can if you want, if you like it. What's your take on dairy? So dairy is kind of interesting. So obviously dairy is an animal product.

But I think there are some problems with dairy for a lot of people. So a lot of people will find dairy can be a little bit inflammatory. I know there's some people that get concerned about different types of dairy, raw dairy versus pasteurized dairy versus A1 versus A2 versus cow's milk versus goat's versus sheep's milk. They all seem to react a little bit differently to different people. But I think in general, I think most you know okay to to sort of do that in moderation or even minimize it and some people need to eliminate it i personally my personal experience is when i do a lot of dairy i don't feel quite as good so i keep it kind of meant to a minimum generally yeah one slice of cheese on the uh yeah one slice on the on the flying

dutchman instead of two which is tough it's a tough order for those guys at the counter. I feel sorry for them. They've got to bring out like, I think they've got to get like an abacus out there to start calculating and taking their chews off to count on their toes. And, yeah, it really just throws a monkey wrench in their whole system. Yeah, the Flying Dutchman Stokers, for those of you who don't know, it's the two patties with cheese in and out. So if you order the Flying Dutchman, you just get patties and cheese. But it's like two pieces of cheese and two patties.

But I think that the formula is off because I think it's too much cheese. And so I want Flying – maybe you guys can do like a city council thing on In-N-Out. Maybe you could petition those guys to like rename that thing or have like a diet Flying Dutch a uh uh diet flying dutchman where they have one cheese or something like that you know they could they could make a new name on that the flying dutchman light or something like that the flying one cheese the flying one i don't where do you think flying dutchman comes from i don't even know i've no it took me forever to i kept forgetting the name i don't know where have you heard of that no that's a weird name why would they come up with that is that from piratesates of the Caribbean could be

could be like a ship I mean it sounds like a ship sounds like a ship maybe one of you guys will know the answer to that maybe they have flying Dutchman's maybe someone who works it in and out knows the answer to this

we have to reach to the higher ups higher ups figure out what's going on they should rename I want them to rename the flying Dutchman with one G something else yeah carnivore special or something i don't know maybe we could come up with a name for that because you aren't

you into aren't you into uh patenting new words you had what was the word you put up the other day wow i saw that i didn't see that dude hell yeah see how i can incorporate that into my lingo a little more if you could install that in the carnivore lingo that'd be sweet what the feeling you get after eating a ribeye jabow and then that seems like pretty good yeah dude i've been urged to say it whenever i eat ribeye so that's pretty cool jabow have you incorporated that into your uh your uh vocabulary vocabulary yeah i use it uh occasionally yeah okay very nice he he's a boom clap is sort of his phrase that he's putting out into the East. It comes from a song, right? Yeah.

I have a phrase now. Boom clap. Boom clap. That's a pretty good one, yeah. Yeah, it's good. I've always liked it. Like when I heard the song, I was like, oh, that phrase works for me. So I'm happy that now I get to connect with other people saying it.

That's very nice. Do you have any words? go-to phrases they use? You know, I like just eat a damn steak is a pretty good, you know, that's a pretty good simple word there. But I think jibweel might intersect pretty nicely with a carnivore diet. Yeah, eating a steak, jibweel. Jibweel, that was a good steak. That's perfect, doesn't it? I it like two syllables yeah jibwow so do you like um do you do like a new york strip one night and then like a ribeye the next and then a filet or is it no i don't do any i usually it's

like three so whatever it is it's going to be like three of those at the same time oh okay like one is not like enough but um i mostly if i can i'll mostly eat ribeyes but i mean you know sometimes it's new york strips sometimes it's not often fillets but sometimes i had i was in austin i went and did the on it podcast you know like joe rogan's company thing i know he's like a every marcus yeah those guys it was with uh cal kingsbury and so he's like the mma fighter Oh, the fighter, yeah. Yeah, and we had, man, in Austin Tech, we went to this place called the Roaring Fork, and they had these.

I mean, these were really good steaks. I mean, we just crushed them. We were just like, oh, you can eat. We were just crushing. We were all eating like six steaks. It was like, rah. Right. It was good.

Sounds awesome. I didn't have to eat for like two days when I got back from there. I was totally stuffed, which is great. Yeah, I heard from one of our heroes is Jocko Willink. Oh, he's down in San Diego, right? Yeah, yeah. He eats steak, I understand. Yeah, I heard on your appearance from Joe Rogan that Joe said that when Jocko's feeling low energy, he just eats a steak.

Yeah. And he just gets right back up. Yeah, it's got carnitine. It's kind of interesting. There's a study out there on depression, well, it's got, you know, carnitine. It's kind of interesting. There's a study out there on depression, and people that have depression have low levels of carnitine. We see that people that don't eat meat have lower levels of carnitine. There's a relationship between depression and not eating meat.

But we know that steak has lots of carnitine in it, and so that's maybe one of the reasons people feel so damn happy. Yeah. You eat a nice steak, and you almost get a little bit, you know, almost like an intoxication. Yeah. A little bitication yeah like that yeah it's making me hungry it is talking about it I'm not hungry yet but I'm gonna I'm gonna eat some stuff I'm gonna have to get something something I might not even make it back home before I have to stop somewhere and find something it's some flying flying

one cheese Dutchman flying one cheese Dutchman I don't know there's got to be a better name for that so So where'd you grow up? So I grew up kind of in early years in the Midwest, Illinois, Indiana, and then down to Texas for much of my sort of late teenage to adult years. I was kind of bummed because I lived in Chicago. Do you guys watch football or pay attention to that at all? I'm a big fan. Do you remember the Super Bowl shuffle with the Chicago Bears? 85 Bears.

So I moved. I was a Chicago Bears fan as a kid. Walter Payton. Yeah, Walter Payton. I moved right before they won, and then I moved to Texas, and then they win, and they're doing the Super Bowl shuffle. But that was right when I moved. It was like 84, 83.

Where did you move to in Texas? I moved to a place called Lake Jackson, Texas, which was down by southwest, south of Houston, kind of on the coast, right there, right on the coast there. So that's where I,

that's where I went to high school. Then went out to Austin, Texas, University of Texas for some college. Oh, you went to UT? Nice. Went to UT? Nice. Went to UT. I think that seems like the best place to go to school in the whole country. It's a good place, man.

That's a good city. Because it's like an artistic hub, but they've got great sports. Yeah, sports, music. And when I was there, it was even better because it was all like, there was like 350,000 people and it was like 50,000 students. It was all around that. And you had 6th Street, which is a big music place. Now it's like a million people.

You just kind of all the Silicon Valley west or east came out there I guess you'd call it. Oh yeah, the median income in Austin

is like through the roof now. I don't know how any artist could survive there. Yeah, I don't know what it is but I was there a couple weeks ago. It was fun.

First time I've been in years got to cruise down there. I've yet to check it out. My brother and I drove through last week, Texas. First time being in Texas. Really? Were you nervous? I was excited.

My girlfriend and I have been watching Westworld, so I was like... I haven't seen it. Is that pretty good? I haven't seen that yet. I like the first season. Second season, I'm not so sure on. But I was anticipating sort of that that wild west scenario but we just drove through so i didn't really get to stop and enjoy it yeah i remember when i moved

from the midwest to texas the kids in the class thought i'd be riding horses and it'd be tumbleweeds and yeah yeah it's not not necessarily the case but you know say we're in new mexico right you go to new mexico yeah i went to new mexico and yeah we were in santa fe and that had that vibe you know that's a little kind of like an artsy community. You've got Canyon Road up there and all that stuff where all the artist communities are. My mom's an artist, so yes. Oh, okay, cool.

Yeah, she loves it there. Where'd you go after Texas? Where'd I go after Texas? I'm trying to think. So I went, I was in Texas until, oh, then I went to New Zealand for a while. I went down there and played rugby. I was playing semi-pro rugby in New Zealand.

Was it rugby union or rugby league? It was rugby union, yeah. So union is kind of the more traditional. League is kind of the newer one. But I played union. I did that for a while, and then I came back. And then I came out here for, I went into the military. And then I came out here to california i was up north of here up of

up near uh vandenberg air force base which is up near lompoc kind of north of santa barbara and then and then i moved to wyoming i lived out there for wyoming is a tough place in winter man i gotta tell you cheyenne wyoming i actually i drove through there as well i'm gonna have these road trips. We drove from Sun Valley, Idaho to New York. Oh, nice. So you're on I-80, right? Yeah, and we were going through Wyoming.

And it wasn't snowing, but there was so much wind that it was like blowing up. This was in January, so it was like below 30, and there were no gas stations around or anything. And that was probably the scariest drive I've had. Yeah, I was banking through the mountains. Yeah, it felt like that level in Star Wars Empire Strikes Back. Oh, or whatever. No, what is it? Do you know what I'm talking about?

The first scene? The first scene in Empire Strikes Back. I think it's with an H. I'll look it up. Oh, the planet they're on? Yeah, yeah. That's all snow. God, man.

I don't remember that one. I know, but that's where he had to crawl in that animal, right? Darrell Bock Yeah, yeah. Like that's all snow. Darrell Bock God, man. I don't remember that one. I know, but that's where you like had to crawl in that animal, right? Darrell Bock Hoth. Darrell Bock Hoth. Was it Hoth? Okay. Darrell Bock Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's what it felt like to me. Darrell Bock Yeah, but why? Yeah, but Wyoming, because it's cold. I mean, it gets cold. It gets like 20 below, but then the wind blows like 60 miles an hour. So the wind chill is like 70 below. I mean, it's really cold there. And I remember I was driving.

We were going to go down to Fort Collins and we were driving on I-25, the interstate, and it was so, you couldn't even see, so we were like watching the reflectors on the side of the road to figure out if you're staying on the road. And it was so whited out. And we were on the I-25, the interstate,

and we ran into a stop sign. And we were like, wait a minute. We didn't even know we exited. We just got an exit stop sign, wow, this is pretty crazy. So. You just got off the highway then? Didn't even know we gotited we just got off the highway didn't even know we got off the highway that's how bad it can be but it's colder

you were in the military at that time? yeah I was in the military initially I was in for about 5 years I was in nuclear weapons I used to launch nuclear bombs like the ICBMs so there was an old movie called War Games with Matthew Broderick of course

he's the main character I think where the kid accidentally hacks into like it might have been yeah so I was one of the guys

that would be in the launch control center oh really I did that job for about five years that's awesome kind of like what it looks like

in like astronaut movies too like you were yeah you're like in the piece you're kind of like you're kind of in a capsule

they call it it's underground and it's protected by a bunch of guys with machine guns up top so nobody can get down there and get through launch control centers were you already a doctor at that time no no i didn't so i was kind of funny so i went this is kind of funny so i went to college then like i'm gonna go to medical school and then i started playing rugby and like ask her and i want to go play rugby instead so i dropped out of medical school yeah then i came back and i was like well i still want to play rugby. The military was a good place to do it in the U.S. at that time. So I went into the military and was a nuclear weapons guy.

And then when I was about 30, I remember I was laying on this pile. I was playing this team from Russia, playing a rugby match. And these guys were just kicking me in the head. And I had blood coming out of my ears. I'm like, I'm 30 years old. I was like, eff it, I'm going to go back to medical school. So they, the military then paid for that. I went through and then I came back, did my training as a civilian. And then I went, um, you know, into the military. And then we got to go to Afghanistan and do some crazy, crazy,

crazy war trauma stuff, which was, you know, just, just bizarre, bizarre stuff. Yeah. How long were you doing that? Uh, so about five years, five years as a military surgeon. Wow. And so you were stationed in Afghanistan? So one of my deployments was there, yes. I was in New Mexico. That's how I got to New Mexico.

I was at Kirtland Air Force Base, and then went out to Luke in Phoenix for a while, and then I was in Afghanistan for part of that time. Cool. I have to ask, were you in like a deep underground military base when you were working with... In Afghanistan? No, when you were in Wyoming.

Oh, in Wyoming. No, so there's NORAD, which is in Colorado, which is like that deep underground thing in the mountain. But what you do in the nuclear weapons is you drive out in the middle of nowhere, and then you take an elevator that's 100 feet underground. That's crazy. You take an elevator that's 100 feet underground. That's crazy. And you go under there. And it's got like a 16-ton blast door. It's supposed to be designed to withstand whatever.

All this Trump. In a realistic scenario, I think they would blow them all up just because that's where they would target. The Russians would target that. Interesting. But we had all these top-secret clearances, and we had all this crazy that's crazy stuff that you know you only you can know and i couldn't i couldn't i was supposed to be banned from going to china or russia for like 10 years after i left because i had a secret code because the information yeah exactly but it's like boring stuff that i don't even remember anymore dude how do you test nukes how do you test them yeah um well i mean you you know well what what the military does is well i don't

know how much they do it currently but they they end up shooting a rocket at a place called the quadrilinear toll uh i'm out in the middle of pacific and they test it for targeting so they know they can hit within a certain number of feet very accurately right and then they run you know this just synthetic tests you know they'll do simulations all the time when they run the equipment, make sure it all works like it's supposed to. And, I mean, it was so the, like the, I guess it was the GPS on there. I don't remember the exact technology on this. But if there was an earthquake anywhere like within thousands and thousands of miles away, the missiles could sense that. So we could tell, like, if there was an earthquake in South America,

the missiles would recognize that. You know, you'd see all these little things. So it's very well, you know. But how do they test, like, the blast magnitude of the actual, like, missiles? Oh, yeah. I don't, you know, I mean, they, you know, well, they've done that since the 50s, right? They used to do that in Alamogordo in New Mexico.

That's where they used to do that stuff. They've tested all those things. And, I mean, I don't know that they still do that. I mean, there's some treaties on how often they can do that, and I don't know what the U.S. has done recently on that. Right. But as far as the accuracy, the targeting, and all that stuff, they're pretty dialed in on that stuff.

That's crazy. It was kind of funny. One of the slogans on one of the squadrons was it was like something like it was a parody on the pizza thing. It says, your first nuclear weapon within 30 minutes, and the next one's free. They guarantee they get you there in 30 minutes. Are you still tight with any of the guys you worked with in the military?

No, not well. One guy a little bit, but not really. It was kind of interesting when I started this crazy carnivore diet. A guy that I used to work with just on social media got on it and contacted me, somebody I hadn't worked with in 20 years, and he was just like, you know, and he got a really good result. He got super lean and strong and all the typical stuff that happens. But, yeah, no, I haven't talked to those guys in ages, quite honestly.

Are you still a practicing doctor? So I'm doing mostly consultations right now. I'm probably going to go. I took a couple years off because I got in a big fight with the hospital, but over lifestyle versus surgical stuff. And so I probably will go back to part-time practice next year. What kind of? What's your official?

Orthopedics. I was doing orthopedic surgery. So I was doing hip and knee and shoulder replacements, trauma, sports medicine type stuff. Look at that popping in. You hear all that crepitus in those shoulders? I can hear that. Great.

I had this left one operated on. What did they do? They just described it to me as tightening up a shirt that had gone loose to keep the ball and socket more secure in there. Did you dislocate it anteriorly before? I never dislocated it, but they say I have I have like hyper elasticity. So basically, I just suffer from like, too much movement in there. And so they just wanted to like tighten up the okay, the girdle. They do it through a scope. They scope. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Curlin Joby.

Okay. You know, in the long run, I don't think it helped. It's like where it would have been. Maybe otherwise, who knows? I mean, that's a difficult problem when you have hyperlaxity. But interestingly, we talk about this diet. I've got a physician in, I think she's a physician. She's an ER physician in either the Netherlands or I think it's the Netherlands. And she has Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, which is a similar situation. We have joint laxity where everything's loose and she keeps dislocating her shoulders.

And so she's been on the carnivore diet, and she said, it's stopped. All of my dislocations went away. I stopped dislocating. My joints are no longer loose. I'm able to start training again. So it's very interesting. So how do you think the meat is doing that? Well, I think it's probably not the meat itself.

It's probably something else in the diet that's probably contributing to poor tissue integrity. So I think if you eat, you know, and we can debate about what in the diet, current modern diet is causing a lot of these issues, and things in general, but probably things like vegetable oils, which, you know, vegetable oils we didn't eat before, you know, 1880, 1890, when cottonseed oil, Crisco, the original Crisco came out. One of the things was, you know, you remember Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin.

Remember the thing you learned in grade school about Eli Whitney and the cotton gin? So he figured out how to, maybe you didn't hear that. But anyway, if you don't know, Eli Whitney was the guy that invented the cotton gin. So they were able to process a lot more cotton. So they got all this cotton seed, which they couldn't use. And then they found that if they pressed it, they could get some oil out of that, and they could use that to lubricate machines and stuff like that.

But then there was a German scientist who figured out how to hydrogenate. You've heard of this hydrogenated oil. He figured out that process back in the late 1800s, maybe early 19th, I think late 1800s. And so that oil that was all slimy, real greasy and loose, they figured out how to make it solid. And so then they could use that as a substitute for lard or other cooking oil with tallow.

And so then they pumped that into our human diet. And the American Heart Association, Crisco and those guys paid, Procter & Gamble paid the American Heart Association a million dollars to start promoting their oil. And they put free recipes to everybody, so everybody started adopting this synthetic oil. And I think that's really been one of the things that's detrimental to our overall health and probably some of our tissue integrity. And then same things like high fructose corn syrup.

There's a whole bunch of other things out there potentially. Those are probably some of the more problematic things. if you look at if you look at any food you pick up on the shelf it's going to have canola oil sunflower oil soybean oil safflower some of that stuff in there it's almost always in there that's literally poison for the human body mind yeah yeah i think going off that my brother wanted me to ask about, can you elaborate, I'm sorry, the correlation between omega-6 consumption and skin cancer? Well, there is some interesting data coming out about sun tolerance in omega-6. And so if you have an excess of omega-6 oils in your diet, remember, omega-6 oils are actually essential.

You have to have some. You can get that from fish. You can get it from beef. You can get it from some animal sources. But when you start getting lots of it in the form of these hydrogenated vegetable oils and things like that, you get an overabundance. And that's been shown to promote damage in the skin. Now, there's a reaction that occurs in skin and other tissues which makes you more susceptible to sun damage. So a lot of people that go on these diets, like the carnivore diet, they'll say now they can bronze, right?

They can bronze more easily without getting a burn. Or they have a much improved sun tolerance. And so interesting, like things like melanoma. Melanoma is the most deadly form of skin cancer. there's things like basal cell and squamous cell cancers which are they don't kill you but they you know you gotta you gotta chop it off you gotta you gotta have surgery for it generally but the melanoma is not even related to sun exposure whatsoever so a lot of people get on the bottom of their foot on the inside of their lip on their genitals and stuff like that stuff that the sun doesn't typically see.

And so that's, in fact, people that live in the colder environments even have a higher rate of that, so it's not related to the sun. So I think a lot of the things in general we've told people about, you know, don't eat meat, stay out of the sun, are probably wrong. Ah. So you can go get jacked and t tan or tanned or get your bronze guilt free bronze with some get bronze just don't even many vegetable oils yeah those vegetable if you're connecting it to like the way our predecessors lived to

it's like they were probably out there I bet they went outside I bet they went out so they probably weren't sitting under fluorescent lights and in cubicles they probably had to go outside seriously you mentioned that you had a conflict with the hospital you're working at over like lifestyle versus surgery. What was like the kind of, I don't know, story there? Dr. Darrell Bock Yeah. So basically, you know, as I, you know, like I said, I went through my own personal health transformation, I figured it out, and then I started applying it to patients.

And then I started seeing some results. And then I said, Well, this is really powerful stuff. And interestingly, you know, hospitals depend upon, most of them don't, they have a pretty tight margin. Their margin is about 3% in a lot of them. It may be different from hospital to hospital, but that's... Darrell Bock Margin in terms of... Dr. Darrell Bock Of how much gross they make versus how much, you know, how much revenue they generate versus how much they need. You know, so they're only making a very small amount of money. So they've got to maintain a high-volume, high-production procedure to make it work.

So things like orthopedic surgery, things like interventional cardiology, things like chemotherapy, they make a lot of money for these hospitals. And so I was a very productive, very income-generating person for the hospital, made them tens of millions of dollars, right? So when I started saying, I want to back away from that and do lifestyle medicine, you know, I want to take a day a week, and they're like, no, we really don't want you to do that. There's not an appetite. They said there wasn't an appetite for that at the hospital.

So I kind of continued to push back against that and tried to get on the wellness committee and basically kept getting shut down because they didn't believe in a low-carb approach anyway. But more importantly, when you compromise the financial well-being of a place, they don't like that very much. So I went through about a two-year legal battle over this stuff, ended up resigning my state medical license because I didn't want to fight anymore because i'd already fought for two years

and so i had to go get independently evaluated to say i was competent i did that and they said you're totally fine go back to work and so that's kind of where i was at now but i mean it was a long drawn-out battle yeah did you guys ever have like a big dramatic like like a moment about it where you were like, look, this is what I believe in and threw some papers in the air? No, that didn't happen. It wasn't like the,

what was that movie? What was that good movie, A Few Good Men? Oh, yeah, yeah. One of the best. Remember that where you say, you can't handle the truth? Yeah, yeah.

I didn't do that. I want the truth. Yeah, I never did that. I should have done that. It was not Spartacus. Well, I was too naive to understand what was going on. And only in retrospect did I realize how much it's about the money.

And it always is. You should know that anyway. But I was naive enough that I thought if you do the right thing and you're a good guy, the right things will happen. So now I've kind of learned a little bit about that a little bit. That was a good movie, wasn't it? It was a great movie. Tom did a great job. But I thought Jack Nicholson was a good movie, wasn't it? It was a great movie. Tom did a great job.

But I thought Jack Nicholson was pretty good too, man. Yeah. I kind of almost sided with him a little bit, didn't you? Colonel Jessup. I heard what he was saying.

Well, he seems like he knows more than the people who are trying to take him out of his position. Right, right, right. He did. I mean, obviously, everyone wants to side

with Tom Cruise because the guy got killed. The Marine guy got, what did they call it? Santiago Code Red. Santiago Code Red. Code Red, the guy got killed. The Marine guy got, what did they call it? Santiago Code Ready. Santiago Code Ready. Code Ready the guy, right? Yeah.

But at the same time, you've got the bigger picture there. Who's up there keeping you alive at night? You want him on that wall. You need him on that wall. Yeah. We do need that. Yeah, it's a really good movie. Very good.

So, dude, do you think hospitals that are treating people in bad faith almost, are they cognizant of the fact that they're— They're conflicted. I mean, I think most doctors want to do the right thing for their patients, and I think most hospitals generally do. But I do think the model that we are subject to is a procedure and a pharmaceutical-based model. And that is the tools that we have in the toolbox.

I don't think they are as effective in a lot of cases as something as simple as a dietary change. You know, I can tell you as a surgeon who operate on thousands and thousands of people, I would see improvements in that particular body part. People would be thankful. Oh, good, my knee feels great. I can finally go back and spend time with my grandkids, and they're happy. But when I compare that now to what I see from people with the dietary changes, I mean, it's night and day.

It's not even in the same league. I mean, because I get people that are like, literally my entire life has changed. I'm no longer suicidal. I no longer have this horrible debilitating disease that has dominated my life for the last two decades. That goes away. I've had a guy that was, I mean, I did a consult with this guy. He said, I've been impotent for 25 years. Yeah.

And within two weeks of going on the diet, he starts getting spontaneous erections. I mean, this is powerful, amazing stuff that's outside of what we normally see in modern medicine. And it's a shame, and it's so simple. It sounds incredible, but a lot of it sounds like, just at this point at least, anecdotal. Is there a large data set that anyone's collecting or pulling from? Yeah, so we are attempting to do that. I mean, there is a group in Hungary called the Paleomedicina Group who has been doing this for about, I want to say,

three or four years. We interviewed them on my podcast. And so they've been doing it for about three or four years. And they've got, I think, something like four or five, maybe even 10,000 patients they've run through. And so they're publishing case studies. They're collecting data on this stuff. And so they've got a decent data set on that. You know, the diet was tested 100 years ago in Bellevue. I mean, they did that for a year a decent data set on that. You know, the diet was tested 100 years ago in Bellevue. I mean, they did that for a year with guys that have done that. So hopefully, yeah, you're right, there is a lot of anecdotal stuff. Most of our nutritional knowledge comes from what's called epidemiology, where they take these large population studies. And they say,

well, these people tend to eat more of whatever, and they have this higher or lower rate of disease. That, unfortunately, is a very poor way to determine how to eat. It really is. It's too confounded. You know, when you take a million people and you try to put them all on the same page, you can't. I mean, there's too many different things going on. In terms of, like, environment or, like, the genetic differences with the people? Well, it's probably more environment than anything.

I think as human beings, we share an incredibly the same number of genes. I mean, you and I are 99.9% alike. But our environments can be wildly different. I mean, some of us can live in a polluted area. Some of us can live in a warm area. Some of us can live in a cold area. Some of us exercise. Some of us don't.

Some of us eat a different diet. Some of us can live in a warm area. Some of us can live in a cold area. Some of us exercise. Some of us don't. Some of us eat a different diet. Some of us, you know, have more stress. All those things, the environmental difference between people is much greater than the genetic difference. And so I think that's probably why most people can eat relatively the same diet and do pretty well. I think when it comes to a species, again, a species appropriate diet, we all probably share a different capacity to eat Twinkies and Doritos and, you know, that sort of stuff. So I think there's differences that genetics may,

may play a role in that more so than the environment. But I do think it's more environment than, than genetics when it comes to human diet. Here's a problem with nutrition studies. You know, they're not hard science. You can't do a study on people. and then at the end of the study, you kill them all and cut them open.

You can't do that, or you can't do a long enough study. And so we don't have really good nutritional data that we can hang our hat on. There is no study out there. People criticize the carnivore. Well, there's no long-term data. There's no long-term data on any study ever that has really been done because you can't do what's called a randomized control trial on a population. Like you would have to take a bunch of twins that share the same genetics, right,

and have them locked in a metabolic ward where you can control everything about their life. They get the same amount of exercise, the same amount of exposure to everything else, and then the only thing you vary is your diet that's the only way you're going to know this answer and so until you know until we can uh do that which probably will never will the best thing is to kind of do your own study in my view i mean just figure out what works for you you know these are the possible options and if you go on a diet like if you go on a vegan diet and you feel great and you're you get leaner and you get healthier and all your you know your your metrics of health get better that's fine for you

for a while if it keeps working that's fine like i said i don't care what people eat if you go on a carnivorous diet and you get leaner and your joints stop hurting your digestion gets better and your mood gets better and your body count gets better and you get stronger your libido gets better that's probably a good diet for you yeah i think it's as simple as that we don't have to make it overly complicated about worrying about some pretend risk 50 years down the road you're going to die of heart disease well guess what the number one killer heart disease and the number one killer of vegans is heart disease yeah and they're talking about we're not going to get heart disease no yes you are is that the number one killer for all people all people right for all people it doesn't matter so if you're eating a vegan diet talking about we're not going to get heart disease. No, yes you are. Is that the number one killer for all people?

All people. Right. For all people. It doesn't matter. So if you're eating a vegan diet and think I'm not going to have heart disease,

guess what? It's the number one killer of vegans. I got in an argument with this vegan doctor because he was saying, well, heart disease is the number one killer.

And I said, well, what are vegans diet? And he goes, well, I don't know. I think it's skiing accidents. I'm like, yeah, whatever, dude. So I went and looked it up and started reading

the literature and I found it, you know, the Epic Oxford data, which is a big epidemiologist study. You look at it, number one killer for vegans, heart disease. Number two killer, cancer. But is it for carnivores, is it heart disease as well? Probably. We don't know. I mean, like I said, you're going to die of something, right?

Yeah. I mean, unless, you know, maybe we're all going to die of skiing accidents. We're going to hit trees when we're 100 years old. I'm really afraid of dying. I'm hoping for some kind of like... Some kind of live forever kind of thing. I don't know what the phrase is, but yeah. Singularity?

Yeah, some kind of forever. You want to upload? Yeah, I want to get uploaded and then downloaded into another body. Well, you could freeze. You could do like what you do. You freeze your head, right? You chop your head off and freeze it, and there's weight. That's my plan.

Yeah. I got people in my family that are like, I want to get cremated. Do you have an extra freezer at your house, Chad? You can stick JT's head in there I always go to him for wisdom just open it up in a vat

eat my head for a time hey look there's a Steve Martin movie about that you remember that yeah with Lily Tomlin with a brain

the man with two brains no that's not the Lily Tomlin one but yeah the man with two brains yeah same kind of thing your brain can live

forever right so yeah what is like when you when you meet someone and you and you tell them about your diet yeah like uh what what what's the main hiccup or hang up that people have about it well i mean you know they'll they'll wonder about you know fruits and vegetables where do you get your where do you get your nutrition where do you get your fruit where do you get your phytonutrients which none of which are required there's no there's no rda for phytonutrients right we've never had that they'll ask about constipation right because that's that's a common topic um you know then they'll worry about heart disease because cholesterol and they'll worry about you know the colon cancer i mean those, those are the major sort of concerns around the diet. And so,

you know, first of all, you know, as far as vitamin deficiencies, I mean, I walk in there, I'm like, look, I'm not dying of any vitamin deficiency. I haven't had fruits or vegetables in two years. I'm still, I mean, arguably, maybe my brain is not working anymore. You know, we could argue that. You look great. I was going to say, it must help that you're jacked. Well, I mean, yeah, sure it helps. I mean, I've been training my whole life. But, I mean, it helps to say, look, I'm not dying of vitamin deficiencies. In fact, I continue to get better and stronger and faster in my 50s since I've been doing the diet,

which really goes against thinking you're developing some nutrient deficiency. I think that's a very important, important concept to understand. I think when you look at the...we're complicated systems. We're not just one input, one output. It's lots of variables going there. Red meat. There's a guy named David Clurfield. I think David's his first name. He was on the World Health Organization study panel, the IRC. He basically said it was the most frustrating experience he's ever been in. He voted against that thing. He said approximately one-third of the people on that committee were vegetarians and vegans,

and they had spent their whole life demonizing meat. He said that they should reveal their conflict of interest, and they laughed at him. They said, no, no, we're not going to do that. And it was just they had 800 epidemiology studies, and they threw out like 780 of them and only used like 20 that supported their cause. There were like 25 rat studies that they threw out like 780 of them and only use like 20 that supported their cause there were you know there were like 25 rat studies that they wanted to use and they found like three or four rat studies that supported what they want they threw out all the other ones there was a study out there you can look it up there's a study out there a rat study on eating

bacon rats fed bacon are protected from colon cancer really yeah it's kind of interesting there's a neat study on that. So they feed the rats a high bacon diet, and they're less likely to get cancer. It's hilarious that they even did that test. Well, you know, it's got to use some funny things. There's all kinds of studies out there that are funny. I mean, it's like, you know,

do you see all the crazy stuff that's been studied? Yeah. What common denominators do you see in, like, the personalities of people who are on the carnivore diet? I think there are people that are just frustrated with the status quo. I think there are people that are willing to take things into their own hands. It's kind of funny. Some people try to politicize it and say it's like a far-right political thing.

It's food. Everybody's got to eat. I've got these people that are from the LGTBQ. I can't remember the letters now, but there's so many letters that keep adding to that. Community that do that, that don't care. And then there are people that are liberals that eat steak. I get people all the time. Now, certainly there's some that are like neo-Nazis that do it.

I get these messages from everybody. Some of these people are kind of like, I'm like, I don't care all that other shit. Just eat your steak and that's all I get I get these messages from everybody yeah these people are correct kind of like I'm like I don't care all that other shit just eat your steak and that's all I'm worried about I'm like whatever let people do what they want to do and just enjoy their steak I like that politics just eat your steak yeah yeah eat your steak live life eat your steak yeah I like that how there's like with the carnivore diet there's really no push to like you know with other diets or something I'll'll be like, you know, buy these supplements, buy whatever and stuff. With the carnivore diet, it's just simple.

So, you know, there's, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of big money behind pushing the agenda. Well, you know, I mean, obviously, there are people that make their careers on supplements and that sort of stuff. And, you know, when you tell somebody there's a diet, you probably don't need any of that stuff. Probably you can get all you need from food. That's probably, I mean, supplements didn't exist before maybe 100 years ago, right? So, I mean, people somehow managed to survive without that stuff. And, you know, I think it's like, so it upsets a lot of people. And they'll say, well, the modern environment is different.

And, you know, whatever they're going to say to promote their supplements. well, the modern environment is different, and whatever they're going to say to promote their supplements. So it kind of irritates a lot of people that want to make nutrition complicated because if nutrition is really complicated, then you need to come to me and pay me money so I can explain it to you. What I'm just saying here, you know, when I'm writing a book on this. I was going to say that. So you are somewhat incentivized for the diet.

Well, I mean, sure, sure. But, I mean, at at the same time i could write a book and do a steak emoji here you go one page i mean honestly i mean honestly but there's people that have questions about transition stuff and there's a little bit of silliness that goes into that but i mean but honestly it's so damn simple and it's not like you got to buy the one like like when when the plant paradox steven gundy came out yeah all its electins are all bad. But now buy my electin shield for $199 or whatever the crap he's selling it for, you know. Or all these guys sell their magic supplements, you know. It's just like, you know, eat a damn steak, you know. Somebody wants to sponsor me for steaks, I'm happy to do that, you know.

But it's not that complicated. steaks i'm happy to do that you know but uh it's it's not that complicated that's what's so frustrating for people that have spent their whole lives studying the minutiae of macronutrients and micronutrients and all these studies and it's and somebody's coming along and saying look i gotta eat as a damn steak and they're good right you don't have to try so hard this diet's like a existential threat to what kind of is a lot of overthinking nutritionist and there's people that you know they're i mean a lot of people they're like you know they spend their whole lives planning their meals they're like i don't know one steak or two dude what do you want and that's it and that's all i got and they love it a lot of women in particular there's women that are

they spend their whole lives just obsessing over all these details and counting all this stuff and they're like man i, I'm happy now. Is there any big athletes, like professional athletes, who are doing the Kronkord Day? Yeah, so there's a few now. I mean, there's a guy named Owen Franks who's a New Zealand All Black. He's one of the best rugby players. And there's a guy named Paul Jordan who's another professional rugby player in France

who just messaged me. He's doing it now. He says it's the best he's ever felt or performed in his life. I'm trying to think. I know there's a few MMA and jiu-jitsu guys who have started doing this. There are... I'm trying to think what else.

There's a few professional baseball players, guys that are doing it now. I can't remember the names. So you were a professional athlete? Well, I played semi-professional rugby in New Zealand, yeah. What was that like? It was awesome. Man, New Zealand was a great place.

I was 25, 26, something like that, 25. Good time just running around, playing sports, getting my head kicked in on a regular basis. But, I mean, it was a fun time. And now you're still breaking world records with rowing. With the rower, yeah. So, I mean, I've always done sports. And I kind of shift every about five or six years.

I go to do a new sport just because it keeps it fresh. But I played professional rugby in New Zealand. I had an American record deadlifting. I was a powerlifter. I was a strongman competitor. I placed, I think it was fifth in the nation, the first strongman contest for the U.S. I won the Highland Games Masters World Championships, set a world record in that sport

through All-American as a Masters track and field athlete, discus and some weight throws, and now the rower. I got on the rower started doing that and broke i've got like three american records right now on that and i'm hopefully getting another and you've avoided injury pretty much yeah yeah because you don't have like the the ears from uh oh yeah i mean actually i was in a position where it kind of yeah i was in a scrum yeah i did that but i mean i you we taped our ears up so you'd wear electrical tape around your head and look like a crazy Frankenstein. But you never like – knees are good, shoulders are good. Knees are good, shoulders are good.

I broke a finger, broke my nose. Those are more like impact injuries, though, right? Yeah, it was kind of funny. I got a scar on my chin. It was kind of funny. I was playing this rugby match in Dallas, and I ran into this big Samoan dude, and he just freaking got me I think either elbow me in the chin or hit me in the chin with his something and split my chin and I go I

had to go to ER after the match and get stitched up and so that I was playing another game the next day and same thing happened and it split right next to it so I had two two scars right now and then I went to the same same ER the next day like get sewed up again and they're like, what in the hell? So do you have any picadillos? Like any weird, do you do drugs or anything? What do you mean drugs? What do you mean? Do you smoke weed?

No, no. Do you go crazy? No, no. No, no. Never did any of that stuff. I mean, alcohol was probably when I was younger mostly and sometimes I would wine but I don't do any of that crazy stuff. I'm still excited about performance right now,

and so none of those things really particularly help that stuff, and so I'm not really interested in that stuff. But I never got into that stuff. What about were you a big lover? A big lover? Well, I don't know who's listening to this, but, yeah, I had my share of experience. I definitely had some fun with that stuff.

I like women. I mean, you can do whatever you want. But I generally preferred women. I mean, I would say I exclusively preferred women. But, yeah, I mean, I had my share. Although, you know, I've been very happy and monogamously in a relationship now, and I'm very happy with what's going on now. Nice.

How long have you guys been together? Going on six years. Oh, good. She's from France, and she's a good French girl. And you said you have four kids? So I got four, so three from a previous marriage, one new one, and then we're actually looking to adopt another one. Oh, cool.

We'll probably adopt another little, maybe little girl, hopefully by next year we'll get that. What did your current girlfriend's parents say or what was her reaction when they found out you only pound steak? Well, so her mom

was totally fine with it. In fact, I've got her mom on a low-carb diet and she has helped her tremendously, her whole family, because I go to France and visit her family

because they're still in France for the most part and they love it, man. They cook a ton and I go there France and visit her family because they're still in France for the most part. And they love it, man. They cook a ton. I go there and just eat everything. I mean, I clean them out. They have a great celebration.

They don't care. They're very happy with it because they totally get it. They're like, yeah, it's good food. They're meat eaters. But it's funny. Her sister, it's kind of funny. She's got one sister that lives in Californiaifornia that's in uh like up in san francisco area and she's a vegetarian and her husband's a vegetarian and we go out to eat

and we just have a good time you know we both eat the meat and here you guys can have our you guys can have our rabbit food what do you season the meat or marinate it um so typically it depends on the steaks like ribeyes themselves just taste so damn good i just throw a little salt on there and i'm good to go you know but i mean sometimes some of the other cuts I'll put, you know, just various seasonings on there. I get some people that send me some seasoning that's, like, low sugar, no sugar, no MSG. It's kind of halfway decent stuff.

Do you use A1? Or is A1 no-go? I don't. But, I mean, I'd have to look what's in A1. I think there's a fair bit of sugar in A1, if I'm not mistaken. So, I mean, I try, I'd have to look what's in A1. I think there's a fair bit of sugar in A1. Is there sugar? So, I mean, I try to tend to,

tend to minimize that, but I mean, again, it depends. It really depends on the person. I mean, there's people like, like Jordan Peterson and Michaela Peterson that,

I mean, if they have a little bit of something that's wrong, it really jacks them up. I'm not that way. I can eat, you know, I can go out and eat barbecue at a restaurant, and I know there's some crap in the,

in the marinade that's, that's on the rub that might cause other people a problem. It doesn't bother me that much. It might make me feel like my stomach a little bit upset, but generally it doesn't bother me at all. So I can get away with that stuff, which is, you know, I'm not sick, which is nice. And I think one of the things we see is this gut disruption.

And I think with time you can kind of fix that so you can kind of get back to where you were. It's almost like winding the clock back on damage and so you can tolerate a little bit more stuff. A lot of people find that out. How are you doing on time? It's about 12, 15. Is it? Okay.

We got some other folks here so maybe we'll push into the next. Okay. So you'll get to see us do it and then I think you'll get the hang of it. It's Chad. Who is your legend of the week? My legend of the week is just dogs in general.

I love dogs. I love doggies. Over the Thanksgiving break, I was saying, my brother has a Rhodesian Ridgeback, and my mom has a Golden Retriever, so I was kicking it with the dogs mostly. Dogs are just the best, man. It's just an automatic mood boost every time you go home you know it's something you can always count on you'd be like you know i'm going back home and there's gonna be a dog there and it's gonna be awesome i need a dog in my life um

yeah my lady friend she has a rosie is a great dog as well and uh i just want to give a shout out to dogs you know thank you i also watched the movie alpha that showed how um humans partnered up with canines which was epic and um i'm just you know i just i love dogs man and i just want to give a shout out to dogs and just you know um i don't really have much to say more than that, but just get dog guys and feel good. Maybe eat a steak, get a dog, and you'll feel good. Get some more dog in your life. Get some more dog. I think dogs are good. It's interesting, just an interesting fact that humans, probably of all the animals out there,

are digestive tract, and a dog is the most similar. Avoid it, aside from the teeth, because we develop tools, so we don't have to chew stuff up like that. Dogs are good. That movie Alpha was awesome, and i think jt should watch that movie that should be the next movie you watch nice dogs are i agree with dogs on legends yeah i had a little i had a black lab grown up barry he's the best and he would uh he would sit and cross his legs he's very sophisticated it's funny do you know who your legend of the week is, Dr. Baker? My legend? I don't know. I don't think I...

I'm sorry you guys got me behind on this one. Maybe Zelda. Wasn't there a legend of Zelda? Yeah. That's a great legend. I'm going to go with Zelda. Really? It's crazy.

Do you know much about like CRISPR and like gene editing and stuff like that? A little bit. A little bit about that. Yeah. I mean, that's so like... Yeah, I mean, there's... The potential there is almost...

It's scary. It is. You don't want us to evolve into that. But at the same time, that's so like, the potential there is almost, it's scary. Like, you don't want us to evolve into that. But at the same time, it's like, it does seem like the next evolution of where we should be going. Are we going to make genetically modified humans as athletes and super smart people and design your own baby? and uh in china scientists just came out and said he uh successfully did gene editing on a two newborns like on twins to give them a built-in immunity to uh like hiv and aids and stuff like that interesting yeah but you know again we don't know what the what the what the cost of that could be or what other genetic changes that's caused. Right, because the domino effect and then... Who knows?

That's the thing. You don't know what you make one change and it's not independent. So it's kind of scary. I mean, you know, it's... We'll see. My legend of the week is the dudes I hung out with in Miami this past week.

I went out to Miami to visit my dad and have Thanksgiving with him. And it was lovely. It was great spending time with my dad. He's super proud of the work we're doing here on going deep

and on Chad Goes Deep. When I get recognized in public, he does get threatened and he makes fun of me afterwards and asks me how I'll ever monetize it. But underneath that, I can feel his pride. It just takes a while.

And he's really stoked on what we're doing. And he's doing well. He's sick right now, but he's recovering well. And it's really inspiring to see him. But I also brought my buddy Reggie, who has been a Legend of the Week on this program before. And he deserves it again. The guy's just a fucking man. I smoked some pot.

I was having a panic attack. I was like, Reggie, I'm afraid I'm going to die.'m gonna die and he just said not now and i was like you're the man and then he he's just he's so funny like he's low-key down to do anything he can party all night or he can sit back and just kick it with you and talk but he's always funny in in any setting we were uh you guys will like this we were at a restaurant and they brought us a bread dish that was just like a shell of bread it was like hollow in the inside and reggie stuck his fingers and he goes talk about empty carbs blew my mind and then uh and then are the other miami guys uh andrew a good friend of ours who's uh our agent maybe i'll cut that out but he's our our agent. And this was the most time I had spent with him, like just going out. And the guy is the mayor of Miami. The way his friends talk about him,

it just makes you love the guy even more. They're all like, we always knew Andrew was going to be the man. He's got a nuclear reactor inside of him. He just keeps going and he's the best guy. And like, I just love him. And it was all his friends from when he was kids. And if someone has friends from when they're kids to this point, you know, they're trustworthy. And he was just fun, dude. I could not keep up with the guy. He partied so hard. He was so charismatic.

He was so charming. He was so effusive. I was like, I was in awe of him. I was like, literally, dude, watching you party is like really awe-inspiring. And then his buddies were the best too. Frenchie, super funny guy. Awesome to hang out with.

It was so nice. Like they were leaving. Guy barely knows me. And I'm I'm like hey I'm paying the bill I'll meet you outside he goes I'll wait I was like well come on this camaraderie this fantastic and then their other buddy um Alex great guy super cool knew a lot about comedy and uh was just really fun to hang out with and talk to and um yeah, they're just great guys. And I had so much fun with them. And thank you for showing me around Miami. It was really an honor and a pleasure to party with you guys. And they're also friends with just like the hottest chicks in the world. And they're all super nice. It was really daunting. But it was a lot of fun.

And I had a good time with them. So thank you to the Miami guys for being so cool. You guys are the absolute definition of legends. And one thing that frenchie said that's a little bit off color but was one of the funniest things i ever heard we were at the bar one night it was like four in the morning people in miami partied till like eight in the morning and frenchie just walked up to reggie and he goes at this point it's just laps and scraps all right good chef who is your babe of the week uh my babe of the week is stifler's mom nice uh stifler's mom from american pie uh because you know up until that moment i don't know around the time of the american pie came out i was just learning about like boning and

stuff and like learning about how you know what high school was gonna be like and sort of you always sort of think like hey i'm gonna have to go for like you know the girls in high school my age or whatever and stuff and then stifler's mom kind of showed me that you know you can kind of you know reach above and so that sort of said like hey there's more of a options in terms of uh um you don't have to just like limit yourself and also i like the idea of like finch you know finch is the one who ends up with stifler's mom and finch was always kind of like true to himself you know he's like look i'm into philosophy i like voltaire i don't like to deuce at school i like to deuce at home and she loved that about him so i think that kind of shows that if you just stay true to yourself you can probably hook up with the most sophisticated woman at prom

yeah he was a cultivated man yeah so and then you know in high school and stuff they'd be like who chad who are you going to take to prom and i'd be like they'd be like are you gonna take like ashley and i'm like i was thinking your mom right Right. It expanded the paradigm. It expanded, yeah. So shout out to Stouffer's mom. Thank you for being a beacon of sophistication. To quote Kevin Garnett, anything is possible. Yeah. Do you have a – Yeah, sure.

I'll put one in. So when I – and this is back from a while, I guess. When I was a kid, I ran away from home when I was about 10 years old. And I took the necessary supplies that would allow me to survive in the wilderness. And so I took a pack of matches and a can of Campbell's soup, which I didn't have a can opener, so I didn't figure that out. I took my sister's, and I apologize to my sister's, Cocoa Puffs, and I took my Charlie's Angels poster. Those were the things, and a blanket. And those were the things that would allow me to survive in the wild.

And my favorite Charlie's Angel at that time, the original Charlie's Angels, wasn't farrah fawcett whoa it was jacqueline smith nice jacqueline smith was the nicest the finest of the charlie's angels her character was kelly garrett as i recall love it great stuff what about you jt my baby of the week is the actress katherine keener nice um i think she's most well known as um the love interest in 40-Year-Old Virgin. Oh, yeah, yeah. What I like about Catherine Keener is that she has such an interesting energy. She can be really cutting and really acerbic to people, but she's still likable. And I think it's because she's really into her relationships.

Even when she's picking on people or being like a little bit cold, you can always feel that it's coming from a place of like, not disliking people, but feeling too connected to them. And that's what makes her upset. And I just think that's really relatable. And, and she's one of the only actors I know who kind of executes that tone.

So Catherine Keener, you know, you're a great actress. You're doing so much work. You're prolific and she and and you're really good at being John Malkovich because you were like really icy but I still wanted uh to be close to you and she's just fantastic in every movie especially like Walking and Talking and you know Nicole Holofcener those are my favorite movies that she's in

all right oh yeah Chad who is your beef of the week um my beef of the week is with pecan pie um i was uh hang on my brother who's on the carnivore diet and i was trying to follow suit you know and it was thanksgiving we had lamb and uh i had salad too stayed away from the scallops and i was proud of that i had some green beans and then my mom breaks out the pecan pie and i'm like pecan pie you motherfucker how can you taste so delicious and when i you know when i dive in like when i go to new orleans visit my brother he's like you want they'll have king cake and i'm like well i'm gonna have to eat all of that you know um because once i just start with that sugar stuff i just can't stop so pecan pie you son of a bitch you got me and i ate like that whole pie and uh didn't feel great the next day.

But you know what? You live and you learn. So I think that just shows you got to keep the temptation out of your vicinity. That's what, yeah. Let's see. Beef of the week. I'm going to go with, how about turtles? Because I'm a little upset.

This is not turtles. Pet smart. Turtle vendors. I bought a turtle for turtle vendors. Yeah, I bought a turtle for my little boy for his birthday. He wanted a pet. And he told me the turtle would do fine in the koi pond. And we put him in there, and the turtle didn't do fine.

He ended up, he didn't move very much. I thought he was like a real, like a slow-moving turtle. But he didn't move very much. I thought he was like a real, like a slow-moving turtle. But he didn't move at all. And so two days of him not moving, I discovered that he was just not alive anymore. So the nice thing is they have a refund policy that any, they said if you're unsatisfied with your pet for any reason, you can bring him back for a refund. So I'm going to package him up and bring him back and say, I don't like the fact that he doesn't move very much. Did you try to resuscitate him by putting like a cube of ribeye in his mouth? You know, I could try.

You know, if God had you there, I would have done that. You know, as a physician, I do better with humans, but I wasn't thinking about turtle physiology. But yeah, that poor little Charlie, he even got named Rest in Peace Charlie. This is probably, and this is something that the Inuit do that most people don't know about this. They do not name their children for often up to a year because they want to make sure they survive. They don't give them a name. They're not even considered humans.

So if these little babies don't make it, they just do that. So Charlie, maybe we shouldn't even give them the name. How did your son handle the loss? He asked for his iPad. So I don't know that he was all that concerned. He didn't grow up. I don't think 24 hours is enough to get really attached to a turtle that you can never touch or see. Or, you know, it's four feet on the bottom of a koi pond.

So I think he's going to be okay. My Beef of the Week is with people who don't like the band Sublime. Good call. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, the lead singer that died over here when I opened this. He did. Before he even got popular. Bradley.

Before he got famous, which sucks, yeah. I think he's one of the greatest lyricists of all time. I mean, I think he can paint a picture of a moment in time of a place of a type of person with like the kind of exacting feeling and precision that's worthy of the greatest literary figures. I mean, I heard like, I'm thinking like David Simon from The Wire. I'm thinking about that French dude, Balzac, that they do these panoramic, very detailed looks at stuff.

And I mean, to me, that is sublime. If you want to understand Long Beach and Southern California and that era, you need sublime like if you want to understand Long Beach and Southern California and that era you need sublime they'll give you the best picture of what was happening at that place

and they just got so many hits that are so fun and what I like about it is like it's a little bit dark

you know but it's fun and dark what is it What I Got is a good one and then Bad Fish reminds me of a lot of songs. Yeah.

Santeria. Yeah, Santeria. Yeah, Summertime. Yeah, yeah. There's one I always forget that has a good guitar riff that I love. Garden Grove one.

Yeah. I can't remember all the songs. Yeah, you know. And yeah, I think you listen to those songs. It's hard not to feel good and want to pop a brew with some of your buddies.

So who doesn't like them, though? There's just some people who think they're cheesy, like bro. Like hipsters? Here's what I don't like. They don't think the lead singer of Sublime is smart. You know what I mean? They think he's the leader of a dumb band, and it's like you cannot be farther from the truth

because if you were from that place, you would understand that he is nailing it. Come to California, put it on, you'll understand. Cool, man. All right. Do a quote of the week? Oh, yeah. I don't even know what mine is. Quote of the week.

Oh, man. I can do mine real fast. Mine is from the terrible Matthew McConaughey movie, Surfer Dude. You've watched that? Yeah, it came right before the McConaissance, when he started doing more serious films. And this was really his nadir. I mean, there's not a worse movie.

There's so much. You can smell the pot through the screen. That's a big word, nadir. But there is one quote that I loved. And it's this kind of withholding journalist is getting to know him and she's starting to like him. And she says, what's so special about surfing? And he goes, what's so special about the wind? Surfing is to be with that mystery, to ride that mystery for as long as you can and then when it's over that's because and then when it's over that's cool because you know what you were there in line and on time beautiful the whole movie's worth it just for that quote and then a song by mishka who is from

the same label is like slightly stupid and sublime comes over called coastline journey comes over the scene and it's it's uh yeah it's great the mcconnison's do i remember that when he was bronzing stuff people were hitting on him like he's bronzing in line and on time that's how i want to live my life all right my quote is from uh the movie the breakup with uh vince vaughn and jennifer aniston uh quote when uh v Vince Vaughn gets his ass kicked by her brother and he's like what's his name? Do you know what the character's name is? Vince Vaughn's character's name? Gary. He's like

Gary, you don't knock a guy's pitch pipe out of his hand when he's in the middle of a very funky groove. I think it's a great rule to know. You should know that. Yeah, I think guys if you ever see pitch pipes out in the ether uh don't knock them out of a dude's hand other good quote for that movie is

when gary gets kicked off the bowling team because they side with jennifer aniston he just turns to guys and goes band of brothers you should watch it yeah dude goodness quote um i'm just gonna go with you know there with a friend of mine, Mark Bell. I'm going to be on his podcast in December. He likes to use the word strength is never a weakness. And I think that's a very appropriate and a nice quote. I love that one. How would we know Mark Bell? I feel like I've heard that name before.

He's big into the fitness and stuff. His brother, Chris Bell. Directed Bigger, Stronger, Faster. Right, right, right. Yeah. So Chris is on a carnivore diet now. And me and him have been going back and forth quite a bit and doing some stuff together.

But he hooked me up with Mark. Mark has become like the meathead millionaire. Darrell Bock He's Smelly? Darrell Bock Smelly Bell, yeah. Mark Smelly Bell, yeah. So he's – Darrell Bock That was an incredible documentary. Darrell Bock Yeah, so they're making another.

They've made – Chris has made several more. They're making a new documentary on diet, which I think they'll feature the carnivore diet in, in fact. So Mark – but I'm going to go up there and have a little debate with a guy named Lane Norton, who's a Ph.D. nutrition. I've heard of him. So we're going to have a little thing on. He was on a Roman show a while back.

So we're going to have a little thing over at Mark's place up in Sacramento, or Davis, actually. Sweet. How do they think about that documentary with how personal it was and then the tragedy that kind of followed? With a brother, yeah. I mean, obviously it's deeply impacted their life. I mean, what I'm impressed with is how tight that family is.

I mean, they care about each other. They seem like really good people. They really support each other and support their parents. I mean, Mark bought a house for his parents next door to him. So when you go up there, their parents are right next door. And so they really, you know, I can tell they rally around each other and kind of support themselves or support each other. Is he still on the T?

Who, Mark? Yeah. I think so. I believe he's taking steroids still. I mean, he's open with that stuff. And I don't care. I don't do that stuff, but I don't care. And then I think Chris was on testosterone replacement, came off of it,

got back on, and then went off of it again because he's feeling like he's doing better just with the diet. And so he's feeling better off the stuff, which I think is great. And I think a lot of guys that did that do end up beating themselves up pretty hard. I mean, and there's some people that are smart about it. There's some people that aren't. I mean, one of the reasons I'm in my 50s and can still dunk basketballs and run sprints and do backflips and all that stuff is because I, possibly because I didn't do some of that

stuff and do something silly, which could have beaten me up. Right. Well, Dr. Baker, thank you so much for coming on. Yeah, it was fun, man. It was really nice talking to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then you said January's sort of the month to like... World Carnivore Month, January 1. So one month of eating nothing but meat. I think I'm going to try it. Do it, man. And let's get the word out and let's see what happens because it's a lot of fun. That's my advice for you going to try it. Do it, man, and let's get the word out and let's see what happens because it's a lot of fun.

That's my advice for you guys to do it. Eat plenty. Eat your ass off. Don't count meals. Don't count calories. Don't count macros. Count how many steaks

you enjoyed and just eat them, eat them, eat them, eat them. And then when you're done, then you just say, okay, I made it. I made it the month and you'll be stronger for it.

You'll be wiser for it. You'll learn something about yourself for sure. Yeah, I definitely want to learn. Sure. And then you have a podcast that's Human Performance Outliers. Human Performance Outliers, me and Zach Bitter. Zach is the current world record holder for the 100-mile run.

And he broke his world record recently. He's eaten two, three pounds of steak a day. Sweet. Very good. So we have all kinds of fitness and health people on there. We chat about that stuff. We don't have any guys like you guys. You guys are a little bit different.

I think John, Chad's definitely an outlier. Is he? Yeah, for sure. With his hair and stuff like that? His hair, his tan, even on his productivity just in general. Productivity. Nice. Oh, sprints.

Cool. Good show on there. I'm a world record setter with how many times someone can masturbate in a day. What's the record? Probably like 13 or something like that. So that's about almost every two hours. Yeah. So what do you do when it was like last three?

Are you starting to like, you starting to get? Yeah. So what do you do when it was like last three? Are you starting to like, you start getting... Oh, it's like just like squeezing it out of like a beet noodle. I was going to say, not much coming out at that point, is there? I don't know. You know, sometimes, I was surprised one time, not to, you know, toot my own horn. Okay.

But I remember one time... Tooting something, right? The 13th load was just as heavy as the first. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's like the 13th Warrior. Remember that movie? Yeah, with Antonio Banderas. The 13th load. Yeah as heavy as the first. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's like the 13th warrior. Remember that movie? Yeah, with Antonio Banderas.

The 13th load. Yeah, Michael Crichton, the novelist, I think he directed that. It's an interesting movie because it's the Beowulf story, but from a different set. It took me a couple hours to watch it because I was taking breaks. I was impressed how quickly Antonio Banderas adopted that new language. I mean, it was like six hours and he learned a new language. It's my favorite part because I listen

yeah exactly I kind of doubt that was realistic that part no you gotta condense those training parts in movies yeah

if it was the real like 10,000 hours we'd all be like cool this movie sucks alright guys we're gonna get in some traffic yeah sorry

and then your Instagram Sean Baker Sean S-H-A-W-N Baker B-A-K-E-R, 1967. Twitter, S-BakerMD. And that's most of the stuff. Cool.

Check out MeatHeals.com. We got a bunch of crazy people that are saving their lives and revolutionizing their health just eating steak. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you so much. Thank you, Stokers,

for listening. We'll see you guys next week. All right, later. All right, guys. Thanks, man. Thank you so much. If you need advice these guys are really nice you wanna know what to do where to go when you need someone to guide you So I step out and throw a piece of you

Going deep Going deep Let's go deep I'm going deep I'm going deep