Going West: True Crime - Amber and Josh Hilberling // 299

Episode Date: April 26, 2023

In June of 2011, a young man fell 17 stories to his death out of his Oklahoma apartment window. Surprisingly, his pregnant wife admitted to pushing him out, but claims it was an accident. After being put on trial and imprisoned, she was found dead in her cell, and although her death was ruled a suicide, her family strongly disagrees, and believes it was a murder. These are the stories of Amber and Josh Hilberling. BONUS EPISODES Apple Subscriptions: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-west-true-crime/id1448151398 Patreon: patreon.com/goingwestpodcast CASE SOURCES 1. KTUL: https://ktul.com/news/local/letter-from-amber-hilberling-arrives-at-ktul-days-after-her-death 2. OKC Fox: https://okcfox.com/medical-examiner-releases-autopsy-report-for-amber-hilberling 3. In Loving Memory of Amber Hilberling: https://www.facebook.com/InLovingMemoryOfAmberHilberling 4. Josh's Find A Grave: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/208561518/joshua-blaine-hilberling 5. Amber Obituary: https://ninde.com/tribute/details/2111/Amber-Hilberling/obituary.html 6. Bustle: https://www.bustle.com/entertainment/women-who-kills-amber-hilberling-died-in-prison-her-story-is-shocking-from-beginning-to-end 7. Amber's interview on Women Who Kill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj7VpYZLtlE 8. The Daily Oklahoman: https://www.newspapers.com/image/452698861/?terms=josh%20hilberling%20air%20force&match=1 9. True Crime Report: https://truecrimereport.news.blog/2021/11/20/the-case-of-josh-and-amber-hilberling/ 10. News on 6: https://www.newson6.com/story/5e36033c2f69d76f62032484/amber-hilberlings-parents-question-manner-of-daughters-death 11. Tulsa World: https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/seven-years-ago-today-amber-hilberling-convicted-in-her-husband-s-death-appears-on-dr/collection_c9a09e32-55cc-11e7-8d38-1fad65514cde.html#12 12. Muskogee Phoenix: https://www.muskogeephoenix.com/news/killers-rapist-to-be-considered-for-parole/article_0650569a-114f-5928-b976-4af1b47d1a39.html Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What is going on True Crime fans? I'm your host Teez. And I'm your host Daphne. And you're listening to Going West. Hello everybody. Oh my god. It's episode 299 that came so9. Wow. Almost at 300 people. Oh no. I saw somebody the other day saying, oh are you guys doing anything special for 300? And I was like, oh man, we're there. And I completely forgot about it until right now. So what should we do? I don't know. We have a few days. So I guess we can figure that out. If you guys have a suggestion, we usually, I mean, for episode 100 and 200, we did something special. I think for 100, we did, we might have done a Q&A and then we covered my Aunt Carol Wolson Croft's case. And then in episode 200, we did that, the Man Up Stairs episode.

Oh, yes. That was a really interesting, and I think we did a Q&A then too. So let us know what you guys want to see from us this week and we'll do our best to make it happen The best way to do that is to go onto our socials and comment send us a message or just send us an email That might be the easiest way which is going west podcast at gmail.com Still on the the gmail thing. I don't know why yeah, yeah, we are oh And thank you so much to Alexa for recommending today's case. This one is wild. Yeah, and I feel like there's gonna be a lot of opinions on this case, but just all around,

this case is so tragic. But let's get into it, guys. This is episode 200 in 99 of Going West. So let's get into it. Music In June of 2011, a young man fell 17 stories to his death out of his Oklahoma apartment window. Surprisingly, his pregnant wife admitted to pushing him, but claims it was an accident. After being put on trial and imprisoned, she was found dead in her cell. And although her death was ruled a suicide, her family strongly disagrees and believes that it was murder. These are the stories of Amber and Josh Hilberling. Amber, Michelle Fields was born on October 1, 1991 in Joplin, Missouri to Rhonda and Michael

Fields, but just three months later, the family relocated to Tulsa, Oklahoma. And Amber had two siblings, including a brother named Adam and a sister named Ariel. Her parents did eventually divorce, but they both remarried. Her mom ronda to a man named Brian Whitlock and her dad Michael to a woman named Stacey. And these unions brought Amber three step sisters, named Haley, Emory and Corinne, and a half sister named Kayla. Amber was a very bright young student, and her mom actually remembered that she broke the record at her elementary school for the amount of times that she received student of the month, and she especially excelled in history.

Amber was also a gifted athlete, playing soccer, and volleyball, and also running track and dancing. She was also active in the future farmers of America. Printed in her obituary, it reads, quote, the family was asked for words that they could use to describe Amber. Here is a partial list of descriptors, and it's partial, but it's very long.

Yeah, it is long. So bear with me. They say she was spunky, wise, genuine, witty, strong, gorgeous, funny, intelligent, loving, tender, artistic, creative, girly, courageous, dependable, extroverted, strong-willed, sympathetic, original, caring, unique, kind, brave, clever, hilarious, open-minded, loyal, well-written, and finally well spoken. That was the longest list ever. But that is all the things that her family had to say about her.

And she was also known in her family for her keen fashion sense, her passion for putting outfits together and for collecting shoes. And in addition to her athletic endeavors, Amber was sensitive and creative and loved writing poetry. Now amid her senior year at Janks High School, Amber met sensitive and creative and loved writing poetry. Now amid her senior year at Janks High School, Amber met 20-year-old Josh Hilberling, who this story is also very much about. Just six months later after she graduated, Amber and Josh were married, so it was a very short courtship, but Josh had been listed in the Air Force and was given an out-of-state

assignment, so the two just wanted to be able to stay together. So now let's get into a little bit of Josh's life here. Joshua Blaine Hilberling was born on May 30, 1988 in Tulsa, Oklahoma to Jean and Patrick Hilberling. He came from a very large and loving family with three brothers named Scott David and Zach, and two sisters named Kerry and Nikki. Now he played high school football, but he had a passion for all things sports, and his friends remember him fondly as kind and funny.

After he married and enlisted in the Air Force, he and Amber were stationed in Fairbanks, Alaska, which is over 3,500 miles away, or over 5,600 kilometers from their hometown of Tulsa. So this was a huge change for them. Though so was their relationship, because within roughly 6 months, the two had met, married, and moved across the country together. And as you can imagine, you know, she's fresh out of high school. They are a very young couple to be moving so far away from their hometown together.

Oh yeah, totally. But apparently they really hit it off and they thought that this was a good decision for them moving forward. But let's get into that. Yeah, and I mean, the pressure of all the change at such a young age, not to mention the stress of Josh's work, I mean, being in the Air Force, really started to get to them and they began to fight constantly.

Now Amber's friend called their relationship dangerous and toxic, but Amber said quote, you can't help who you love. Now while the couple were aware that they had their problems, they also cared for each other deeply. Amber called her husband, quote, charming, irritating, smart, funny, and annoying. So half of those things are good. Half of those things seem bad. But honest. Yeah.

And she also said, quote, he was a good man. He was all of the things that I'm not, and I was all of the things that he wasn't. We complemented each other, even though we drove each other crazy because of it. In Josh spoke similarly of Amber, and even penned her a love letter that read, quote, you kiss me, your lips so soft and smooth. I love the way you make me so happy and the ways you show you care. I love the way you say I love you and the way you're always there. I love the way you touch me, always sending chills down my spine. I love that you are with me and glad that you are mine. Love Josh. Very sweet poem reminds me a lot of that, um, 10 things I hate about you. I was just about to say that way but it's I hate the way you yeah

But yeah, very sweet poem, but yeah like he said things could really get volatile between the two of them and when things were bad They were known to be really really bad so Amber recalled Josh struggling to keep up with his demanding position in the military And that he turned to drug use because of this. And one fight escalated so badly that she threw a lamp at him, and he had to seek medical attention for this, and he'd even allegedly filed a restraining order against her after this incident, but the charges were later dropped. But the drug use caught up to him very quickly because when Josh was caught using drugs, he was discharged from the military after just eight months. And around this time,

the couple found out that they were expecting their first child. So they left Alaska and moved back to Tulsa, Oklahoma and attempted to kind of pick up the pieces of what their relationship had become in order to create a loving environment for their baby. You know, they really wanted to get things straightened out between them and not fight so much and just be good future parents. Yeah, and I'm sure going back to their hometown would make it a lot easier to be new parents at such a young age because they have family around them. Yeah, I mean, you and I know what it's like to move to a new state and not know anybody

and the pressures of that. But yeah, I mean, Amber's mom, Rhonda helped them secure an apartment at this high rise apartment building called a university club apartment homes, which is in downtown Tulsa, and this is where this tragic story takes place. At least the first part of it. Exactly. So this luxury apartment building stands at 32 floors high, so it's a where this tragic story takes place. So this luxury apartment building stands at 32 floors high, so it's a huge building, and it has panoramic views of the city, and it's located just a block from the Arkansas River.

So from their apartment, which is on the 25th floor, they had this beautiful view of not just the city, but this whole portion of the river. So as Josh and Amber just tried to get back on track, Amber also started taking classes at Rose State College, and her mom Rhonda remembered proudly that she maintained a 4.0 GPA just like she had in high school. So they settled into their new apartment like I said on the 25th floor of University Club at the end of May 2011, which was right around the time of Josh's 23rd birthday.

And by the way, Amber at this point is 20 years old, and she is about 5ish months away from her 21st birthday. And she was about 7 months pregnant. But sadly, even after making this big change, the fighting continued. And it didn't go unnoticed by those around them, because neighbors claim that they often heard yelling and commotion coming from the Hill Burlings apartment. On June 6, 2011, so the night before Josh's death,

the couple was fighting yet again, but this time via text message. Should we do, do you want me to do Amber, and you do Josh just to make it easier to understand? Sure, yeah absolutely. Okay, so Amber wrote to Josh, I don't believe anything you say anymore, so please don't waste your time. To which Josh responded, 10 minutes is all I ask for, I'll be home. This is not your home, you're just staying here.

I want to have a home with you, I'm sorry I've been such a shit. I'm done with complaining and always trying to spend time with my friends when I should spend it with you. Don't text me stuff like that. Why? I wanna be with you and only you. I love always when you're with me. I won't lose that. And then in this next text we just know that Amber asked if he had been drinking. And then Josh texted back, nope, that's just how I feel. I've thought a lot about the way I've been and how you don't deserve that. And I know I can be so much of a better man.

But sadly, even though Josh had said these things, it did not change the trajectory of the couple's relationship. So on the next day, which was Tuesday, June 7, 2011, Amber and Josh called the building's maintenance to fix a broken window. Now allegedly, Josh had hurled a laundry basket at one of the windows and cracked it. And I mean, you can only imagine like a laundry basket. Yeah, they're usually plastic. They're usually plastic.

Yeah, I was going to say they're usually plastic. And we're going to get into why that's so problematic here in just a bit and as you can imagine I mean they lived again on the 25th floor So you definitely don't want a cracked window when you're up that high exactly So the employee claimed that he felt tension is soon as he entered their apartment as if the couple had just been in the middle of a fight He went into the other room to fix the window and the couple remained in the family room. Now what happened next is purely between Amber and Josh

alone, and we may never know the exact story. But Amber claimed that the two were in the middle of an argument and that he had charged at her grabbing her shoulder. And she had shoved back in what she called a self-protective move for herself and her baby, who was only about two months away from being born. Now Josh had apparently stumbled backward and fallen into the window, which was flimsy as hell and toothed in for an apartment building that stood at that height. So the weight of Josh's body shattered the window and he plummeted 17 floors to his

death. It reportedly took just three seconds for Josh to fall from the 25th story window and make contact with the 8th floor parking structure, like Heath said, which is a fall of 17 stories total. Multiple neighbors and the maintenance man who was allegedly still inside their home repairing the other window recalled hearing Amber screaming, oh my god, no! A 911 call was placed by an onlooker who claimed a man had just jumped from a high-story window, the caller had guessed the 17th floor and again of the university club apartment homes in the words of the caller quote the glass broke and he

fell out after he went through the window amber just raised downstairs but it was too late because Josh had died on impact and this is just two weeks after they had moved into this apartment yeah they, they were so fresh to that new apartment of theirs. Exactly. So when the EMTs arrived, they attempted to perform resuscitative measures on him, but it was to no avail. Amber could reportedly be heard begging paramedics to quote, fix him.

Before the police even arrived, Amber had already called her grandmother for help. And as they tried to put the pieces together at the scene of the crime, Amber and her grandmother were driven to the Tulsa Police Department for questioning. But before the police even talked with her, they actually left Amber with her grandmother in a holding room that was connected to closed circuit TV, just to see if Amber would explain to her grandmother what had happened or even like confess, just to see if Amber would explain to her grandmother what it happened or even like confess or trying to see if they can catch her having this private

conversation and she did. Now Amber described her grandma through sobs the moment that she realized that her husband was dead saying quote, I just held his broken body. She went on to say that she had pushed him, and when her grandmother questioned her, she blamed herself saying, quote, I killed him. She then begged, quote, I just want to go back, please, I just want to go back and just not push him. She then collapsed, crying on the table, and lamented saying, quote, I'm a horrible person.

Who could do that? Push my husband and make him fall? I want to be dead. I want Josh to be here. For the rest of my life, everybody's gonna think I'm a murderer. She then acknowledged that Josh's parents who had been very concerned about their relationship were right.

And she said, quote, they kept saying, if we stayed together, I'm going to kill him. And the thing about this is Amber didn't even know that she was being recorded or watched, and she was not read her Miranda rights nor was there an attorney present. But one of the officers present at the time when questioned about his tactic and a later interview said simply quote, the law allows us to do that. We did it.

And with that, Amber was arrested on second degree murder charges. Now on June 21st, so two weeks after her husband's death, Amber was administered a polygraph test which she passed. When asked if she had deliberately pushed Josh out of the window, she said no. I think there's really two different questions here. Like, one, did you push him and two, did you want him to go through the window? You know, like, was this just a shove?

Like you're trying to get him away from you or you're pushing him in your own anger? Which, you know, I think we can all agree. You should never put your hands on your partner. But did she, was she trying to shove him to his death, or was she just pushing him off her? And I'm sure a lot of you guys are probably wondering, like, what is the size of this window? Like, logistically, could this be possible for somebody to push another person out this

window? And yes, the window is pretty big, and we are going to talk about the materials that were used in that window for this high rise building. Right and actually we should mention that now. So the the window itself, the very top of the window, was about six feet five inches off the ground. Right. And Josh was six feet three inches tall. Yeah. A lot of things, some things or some articles said that he was six three some said six four some said six five so either way he's tall and he the top of his head would have been sitting just below the very top of the window and the very bottom of the window is just over two feet above the floor so you can imagine like his maybe his

thighs and his butt kind of area would have been hitting the the very bottom of the window so essentially his entire body almost fits very bottom of the window. So essentially, his entire body almost fits the size of the window perfectly for him to fall out of. Yes, correct. Or, you know, obviously, except for the bottom of his legs. But let's get back to Amber's interview with police. Yeah, so she was asked a bunch of different questions in a variety of different ways.

And each time she said no, that she was not responsible for doing this, and each time they found her to be truthful. But you know, as we always say, polygraph tests can be very unreliable, but her family stood by her and the results of these tests. Now the media frenzy surrounding this case was monumental, which was only made more intense by the fact that Amber was 7 months pregnant. In the midst of the charges being filed in Amber's family securing her legal team, hoping to be excused of a manslaughter charge, Amber gave birth to a baby boy.

Two months to the day after Josh's death on August 7, 2011, Levi Hilberling was born. Before that quick break, Heath let us know that exactly two months to the day after Josh's death, Amber and Josh's son was born, and he went on to live with Josh's and Amber's families while Amber was incarcerated and while the legal proceedings got underway. Amber's family painted a portrait of Josh as a serial abuser and an unfit husband and father, because according to Amber's mother, Rhonda, much of what had been released about Amber in the media was untrue, including the story that their fighting had gotten so bad in Alaska that Josh had taken a restraining order out against Amber. In fact, Rhonda says that it's the other way around, and in her words she says, quote, the police in Alaska had ordered her husband to stay away from her, not the other way around.

The police had been called several times in the short months that they were married by Amber. So I just want to make a little comment really quick. This story is really complicated because of the abuse allegations from both people against each other. I feel like in cases like this, that's not typically the norm. There's typically a person that is being accused of the abusive behavior and it's only one person. So this does make it a really sticky case to cover because we're not trying to say that Josh was the abuser versus Amber being

the abuser like we don't know. Yeah. Yeah. It's sorry. No, no, I was just going to say, I mean, at this point, I just feel like the families are kind of like pitted against each other. Like they exactly they both want to support their own child in this in this matter, you know, like, Josh's family is saying that Amber was, you know, the aggressor and vice versa. And it's just, it's just kind of a messy, sticky situation. It is. So we can only, we can only give you guys

what each side of the family is saying. And we don't want to side on either of them. Although, of course, there is the question of right now of did amber purposefully push her husband out the window that is a very serious matter and it just makes it so much more difficult that the families have the different stories from each side but but we're just reporting reporting what everybody's saying so anyway so ronda also claimed that they were together

when the protective order was served, and that the couple had only done it for optics because Josh's parents were concerned about the two of them and their volatile relationship. And according to Rhonda, Amber and Josh were laughing about it and joking about how it was so unnecessary and they were only doing it so Josh's inheritance would remain intact. So that's just a complicated situation. about how it was so unnecessary and they were only doing it so Josh's inheritance would

remain intact. Ronda was also very angry that the Tulsa Police Department did what she called a one-sided investigation, not bothering to speak to Amber's friends and family to really find out what was going on between this couple. Ronda also lamented the sexism and double standards on display at the trial, claiming that Josh was painted as this military hero, and that Amber was accused of using her femininity and sexuality to sway the court. An Amber, of course, echoed that if she was dressed up too much, she was seen as, quote,

a bimbo, just trying to use her looks for her favor, but that if she didn't put herself together, she was seen as not taking the trial seriously. Yeah, so that's also another aspect about like these trials is like, and they tell you a lot of attorneys and lawyers will tell you, like, hey, you need to, you need to act a certain way when you're in court, you need to look a certain way. Yeah, because this is need to act a certain way when you're in court, you need to look a certain way. Yeah.

Because this is going to sway a jury, and unfortunately that's the way that trials go. But Josh has family told an entirely different story, so his father Patrick claims that Josh had long desired a divorce from Amber and that they were trying to make it work for the sake of their baby. And his family has maintained that on the morning of his death, Josh had been seeking a divorce from Amber and that that's why they started fighting in the first place. Patrick said after his son's death quote, When I saw the Tulsa Police Department chaplain, I knew she killed him.

She finally did it. And I mean, that's really sad that Josh's father is saying, oh, she finally did it. And I mean, that's really sad that Josh's father is saying, oh, she finally did it as if he knew this was going to happen. Well, it's just like his family had said, even Amber knew that they had said, if they stayed together, she's going to kill him. Right. I wish we knew a little bit more about that

if they had said that because of abuse allegations on Josh's part where he had told his family that she was a certain way to him or if they meant that like kill him not actually physically murder him but just there you know she's gonna kill him but i just feel like you know they knew that you know the new was bad it was bad that they were together yes yes that's exactly what i think they knew it was volatile so so a friend of Josh's family also weighed in on this

and said, quote, I worked with Josh's mom before all of this happened. I will never forget her talking about the domestic abuse stating if he doesn't leave her, she's going to kill him. Not sure I have a strong opinion on the matter, but that statement is a bit telling. So we have obviously two completely different versions here, and unfortunately one of the people in question isn't here to tell their side of the events.

So let's get to the trial here. So Amber was offered two different pleadials in the time leading up to her trial, one in which she would serve five years in prison and 15 years of probation, and one that offered her seven years in prison with 13 years suspended. But basically both of those options would have required Amber to plead guilty to something that she felt she didn't do. So Amber denied both options, and the case went to trial, which was fraught with finger pointing in an impossible question that only Amber and Josh really knew the answer to.

But on March 18, 2013, Amber was found guilty of second-degree murder and sentenced to 25 years in prison for her husband's death. It's just crazy that she could have taken five. I mean, she would be on probation for a long time, but the five years in prison and 15 years probation is a lot different than 25 years in prison. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I definitely agree, but in her mind, she thought, you know,

this was an accident. I didn't purposefully kill my husband, and she took the risk of going to trial and she ended up with 25 years. While initially Rhonda claimed that Levi was living with Josh's parents at some point, she and her husband Brian were given custody of him. And both families leveled lawsuits against the University Club apartment building, so Amber claimed wrongful death due to the glass being too flimsy for a window

at that height, and that it was not up to code. And Josh's family sued the building, as well as the real team management company who worked with them, and the company who installed the glass window in which Josh fell through. And to be fair, this did appear to be true, like they have all the rights to sue here because it's known that the glass in their apartment was original, but during a remodel, chalk was not traveled properly onto the facade, which was very badly worn. The glass itself was two layers of glass, which was separated by airspace, and you know, that's considered normal in many windows, but these particular pains of glass were 0.092 inches thick, which in the industry is apparently considered

single strength and much too weak and thin to be used in windows. Thus it is primarily used only for picture frames. So we're talking about glass that's used in picture frames. So think about this. It's a picture frame glass, one side, and then you have a little bit of air, and then you have another picture frame glass. And that's it.

Could it punch through that? Yeah, you could literally, yeah, it's insane. So that was obviously a horrible choice. And according to window expert Mark Meshelum, who wrote an incredibly detailed webpage about the glass and what should have been used instead, and that's at ChicagoWindowExpert.com. And he was actually at the scene at one point

and spoke to Amber and took some of the glass so that he could inspect it. So Mark says that had the glass been tempered or laminated, the shards would have stayed in the frame upon impact, kind of like a car windshield he explained, and Josh more than likely would not have broken through the glass and gone out the window. And then due to the larger size of the window, we posted photos and we described it a little bit for you guys a minute ago, the glass really should have been thicker because obviously larger pains of glass have a bigger risk of breaking and bigger risk of weakness.

And there are a ton of other technical details about the construction side of this case if you would like to read more, and the link is in the description of this episode. So Amber granted multiple interviews while she was incarcerated at the Mabel Basset Correctional Center in McLeod, Oklahoma, and she spoke candidly about her account of what happened on the day of her husband's death, as well as her experience in prison. In one interview Amber said quote, some days it feels like a million years ago, and you feel like this part of your life has been your whole life, because it's a whole other world.

You have to be a whole other person in here, a whole other person. While awaiting release and hoping for time off for good behavior, Amber focused on trying to be the best mom that she could relieve even from far away, relishing their visits and proudly showing off pictures of him to her fellow inmates. In one interview, Amber said that she was seeing someone new, a woman that she had met in prison. She said, quote, Patricia, she's my girlfriend, we've been together for two years. She's taught me more in two years than I've learned in my entire incarceration.

I mean, she's somebody that I know on a personal, intimate level, and she's the only person that knows any of this stuff that I talk about. You know, it's that one person that can see you cry and it's not shameful. Amber spoke glowingly of Patricia and seemed more grounded in it piece than she had in years. On October 23rd, 2016, 25-year-old Amber penned a letter to a local news station, who was KTUL, who had repeatedly asked her for an interview. She wrote in the letter that she was finally ready to sit down with them, saying, of course, I had to talk to my family

before giving you an answer toward your request. I want to point out first my appreciation for the offer of opportunity, as well as the initial interest. That being said, I'm willing to do an interview despite my honest reservations. I hope it's not assumed that by me admitting such, I have a direct distrust in your network specifically. Please understand the misfortune I've suffered from media interviews that I had agreed to do on the popular promise of helping me. Because I can't let go of the hope that using my own voice and conversations

about my own life with the one and only chance that I have to change the circumstances of my own reality. Now despite her hesitation, her letters seem to confirm that she was looking forward to speaking with them, but by the time the station received her letter, Amber would be dead. On October 24, 2016, so about five and a half years after Josh was killed, 25-year-old Amber was found hanging in her cell from the cord of a hair straightener. And after this, her parents received a very cryptic call from the prison telling them that their daughter was dead, but this was after finding out the details from watching the news. Her death was quickly ruled a suicide, and according to her family, there was no investigation.

The medical examiner performed an autopsy on Amber and observed cuts on the right side of her neck, scratches on the left side of her neck, and bruising on her jaw. They also noted what looked like scarring left over from possible self-harm on her wrists, and there were trace amounts of methamphetamine found in her blood, but her family never accepted the ruling of suicide, with her mom Rhonda saying sadly quote, to me, the world killed her. I mean everything in this was wrong. Of course she's sad. She's wrongfully accused of murdering her husband. She's away from her child, but she wasn't suicidal. A friend of hers who had been in prison with her at the time said quote, the death of her late husband was indeed a tragic accident,

for she would never do such a heinous act with intention. Amber was very upfront with the fact that their marriage wasn't perfect. She knew they both had room to grow. The common denominator was the well-being of their son, Mutually Agreed. The week of her death, she proudly showed off new pictures of her precious son at a photo shoot that her parents had done of him. He was most handsome, innocent, and sweet. I know she had no intention of leaving him ever. It was not suicide. Everyone knows that. And again, this is just what people are saying, obviously, you know, like we talk about in a lot of different cases that we cover where suicide occurs or is believed to have occurred, there are a lot of family members who don't believe that that happened.

So in this case, her family does not believe that she took her own life, but we can't really speculate on that. Yeah, I mean, I know that there are a lot of emotions tied to this case, but there is some kind of strange evidence that are leading people to believe that she was killed. True. And we'll get into that in just a minute actually. But of course, as you can imagine, not everybody was mourning her loss.

Josh's family were those people. They still really blamed her for Josh's death. So after Amber was found dead, Josh's brother Zach posted on Facebook, moha ha ha ha, ding dong, the witch is dead. Which part of me feels like that is super, super harsh, but I also kind of just wonder what information he may be privy to from the time that his brother dated her and was married to her, you know?

So, right, and Josh's entire family feels like Amber is responsible, so. Right. So I guess it kind of is understandable, but yeah, I do feel like it is harsh to put that on Facebook. Yeah, totally. So even despite the connection of their families

through Levi, the families did not seem to maintain decorum. Another fellow inmate of Amber's at the Mabel Bassett Correctional Center wrote to Rhonda saying, quote, �She was my neighbor for two years on the yard. She was an amazing person. Everyone has their flaws, but all in all, she was an amazing person and didn't deserve to die.

All the while, the warden and the officers ate McDonald's in the day room and chatted and giggled for four plus hours while she was dead in the room next to me. She was found at 6 p.m. count and they didn't take her body out until midnight. She laid dead in herself for 6 hours while nobody did shit. I was there and saw it. I'm almost 90% sure she didn't kill herself. Mabel Bassett did what they had to do to make it look like something it wasn't. The state penitentiary isn't going to admit that an inmate killed another inmate and they did nothing, but that is what happened.

Not to mention they almost dropped her carrying her down the stairs in the body bag. Rest in peace, Amber, the truth always comes to light. So while an investigation was never open for this, the person whom Ronda believes was Amber's murderer is none other than her new girlfriend Patricia. Patricia Rucker or T Rucker, as she's known in prison, was more than 21 years Amber Senior and in prison for you guessed it, murdering her own girlfriend. See, because in 1994, after an argument about finances, Patricia shot her girlfriend Melva inside their apartment.

Patricia fired the gun three times, the first two being blanks, and the third shot through Melva's temple. Patricia claimed that they both had scrambled to reach the gun, but Melva's daughter, who was present that night, said that the fight had actually originated because Patricia had been asking Melva for more money to fund her drug habit, and that she had then shot Melva when she was angry that she wasn't getting the answer she wanted. Patricia had been drinking and smoking crack at the time, and she's still incarcerated in the same facility in McLeod, Oklahoma, but here's the thing.

She's actually eligible for parole soon. So after her death, Amber's family levelled a lawsuit against the Oklahoma Department of Corrections, claiming Amber was, quote, manipulated, coerced, and sexually exploited by an inmate throughout her time at Mabel Bassett, and that this quote substantially increased the risk of harm to her. On what used to be the Facebook group begging for justice for her daughter, but is now a Facebook group memorializing her, Rhonda wrote quote, Oglahoma Department of Corrections and the Mabel Bassett Correctional Center are responsible

for covering up the murder of Amber Hilberling and making it look like a suicide. Amber Hilberling was murdered by an inmate named Patricia Rucker, T. Rucker. Hours before Amber was found hanging in her cell, Rucker, who is doing a life sentence, told Amber to go kill herself. Rucker was housed in a separate block than Amber and was not allowed in her pod. However, the guards allowed it anyway. Rucker is in prison for shooting her girlfriend over 20 years ago. Amber was found hanging

by the cord of her hair straightener. Her body wasn't removed from herself for hours. She was left there so long that the prison's internal affairs department could get to the murder scene before the medical examiner. There were claw marks on Amber's neck where she tried to fight off her attacker and remove the cord. Amber was working with Dr. Phil and had an interview coming up with the local news station KJRH. The prison did not want the world to know an inmate killed another inmate, and they let

it happen and did nothing about it. Since Amber's case was so high profile, they had to cover up what they let happen. The warden of the prison and several guards ate McDonald's and laughed about her murder all while Amber's body was still hanging. It doesn't matter if you believe Amber deserved to be in prison or not. Her seven-year-old son deserves to know his mommy didn't choose to leave him. Her life was taken from her and I will spend my life trying to prove it." So, that was the end to the tragic story between Josh and Amber, but they live on in Levi, who according to Ronda, is the spitting image of his father and a perfect blend of

their two personalities. Ronda continues to advocate for her daughter that Josh's death was an accident, but that Amber's was not. She also still aims to hold the apartment building accountable, saying, quote, I will never, ever, ever forgive them for killing my kids. [♪ music playing in background, music playing in background, oh yeah, make sure that you let us know what you guys want to see for that episode. If we can make it happen in a matter of a couple days, we absolutely will. Thank you guys so much for getting us to this number, which we will, I'm sure say in the next episode as well. But today's case, it's just so tragic all around that this one fight this night really ended to both of them dying and They're child having to grow up without both of their parents. It's just like overall such a tragic story

Yeah, I just feel so horrible for Levi. I mean this this young boy now does not have his mother or his father I mean not that you know he won't be raised by Amber and Josh's amazing family but still it's just a tragic, tragic story. Yeah let us know what you guys think. Remember we are on all the socials you can find us on Facebook. We have a Facebook discussion group as well just look us up there. We're also on Instagram at going West Podcasts and Twitter at going West Pod. That's also where you can find photos of the window and the apartment building and of course of Josh and of Amber if you guys want to see.

Alright guys, so for everybody out there in the world, don't be a stranger. 1.5% 1.5% 1.5% 1.5% 1.5% 1.5% 1.5% 1.5% 1.5% 1.5%

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