Going West: True Crime - Johnny Cashman // 252

Episode Date: November 12, 2022

In April of 2022, a 38-year-old man died in his apartment due to an apparent medical condition. Without seeing the scene of his death, his parents had him cremated, fully believing the ruling. But later, when his ex-girlfriend entered the apartment to a horrific, bloody mess, his friends and family began to doubt his cause of death. And after seeing damning security footage and audio from his neighbor, they knew: he had been murdered. This is the story of Johnny Cashman. BONUS EPISODES patreon.com/goingwestpodcast CASE SOURCES 1. Arrin Stoner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv2J7WmpaSA 2. WSET: https://wset.com/news/local/johnny-cashman-death-investigation-police-negligence-steven-church-elizabethton-tennessee-gruesome-scene-family-questioning-lynchburg-police-department-murder-medical-emergency-bloody-crime-scene-surveillance-video-virginia-april-2022 3. WSET: https://wset.com/news/local/police-find-speak-with-witness-in-investigation-of-man-found-dead-in-lynchburg-apartment 4. Web Sleuths: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/va-johnny-cashman-jr-38-death-investigation-lynchburg-apr-2022.636773/ 5. Village Soup: https://waldo.villagesoup.com/2014/07/08/july-4-fight-ends-with-stitches-jail-time-for-belfast-man-1208648/ 6. Pen Bay Pilot: https://www.penbaypilot.com/article/belfast-police-department-beat-shoplifting-insurance-violations/26011 7. Sara's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sara-cashman-a9a289b4/ 8. Howard Cashman Obituary: https://obituaries.eagletribune.com/obituary/howard-cashman-771016101 9. Spokeo: https://www.spokeo.com/John-Cashman/Maine/Lincolnville/p356432521 10. Medical Examiner's Report: https://www.scribd.com/document/574955166/Johnny-Cashman-Medical-Examiner-s-Report 11. Lynchburg VA Police: https://www.lynchburgvapolice.gov/news-updates/update-2-attempt-to-identify-witness/ 12. WSET: https://wset.com/news/local/commonwealths-attorney-announces-no-charges-in-death-of-john-cashman 13. Mayo Clinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/esophageal-varices/symptoms-causes/syc-20351538#:~:text=Esophageal%20varices%20are%20enlarged%20veins,throat%20and%20stomach%20(esophagus). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What is going on to Creme fans? I'm your host Tee. And I'm your host Daphne. And you're listening to Going West. Hello everybody and hello Elizabeth who recommended today's case really appreciate it. I just want to say as well to everybody that has recommended cases in general. Thank you. I'm still very behind but we are catching up. And I have been thinking about this case since Elizabeth sent it in a few months ago and now we are finally able to cover it. So thank you so much. Thank you everybody for tuning in. I mean as soon as I looked into this one, like I was blown away at the details.

And this is one of those that you definitely want to share as much as possible, so thank you in advance if you post. Yeah, it's honestly, I can't wrap my head around just this entire situation, right? It's crazy. It's just crazy. Yeah, it's just one of those ones. So buckle up everybody. In April of 2022, a 38-year-old man died in his apartment due to an apparent medical condition. Without seeing the scene of his death, his parents had him cremated, fully believing

the ruling. But later, when his ex-girlfriend entered the apartment to a horrific bloody mess, his friends and family began to doubt the cause of his death. And after seeing damning security footage and audio from his neighbor, they knew he had been murdered. This is the story of Johnny Cashman. John Hutchinson Cashman Jr. was born on January 9, 1984 to Kim Cashman and John Hutchinson Cashman Sr., and then he also had a sister named Sarah. The family lived in the Bangor area of Maine, which is a little over an hour northeast

from the capital city of Augusta, and only about two hours from the Canadian border. Now, we cannot stress how little information there was about Johnny's personal life or his family, so everything we were able to glean was from their social media profiles and obituaries of like family members and articles from local papers in Maine from years past, but we did our best. And this may be due to Johnny's complicated criminal history and the family

may want to maintain his status as a victim in this scenario, which of course he was instead of allowing the public which of course he was, instead of allowing the public to believe that he was in some way responsible due to his infractions from the past. Now Johnny had been in trouble with law enforcement, most of them having to do with being intoxicated, facing charges from driving under the influence to disorderly conduct, to domestic violence assault, and he had served jail time on multiple occasions.

Johnny had some mental and physical health struggles that he was navigating on a daily basis as well. For example, he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder for which he took medication and suffered from anxiety and depression. He was also known to have a bit of an addictive personality and dependency issues, and he was a frequent drinker, with some reports even going so far as to say he was an alcoholic. He also suffered from hypertension or high blood pressure, and because of all this, he visited the doctor quite frequently for preemptive care, but despite these health issues, at the

time of his death, Johnny seemed to be in good health, which is important to note as you will learn. So he saw medical examinations in December of 2021 and January of 2022. Now the case we're talking about today happens in April of 2022, so just a short few months after his last examination. And both of these exams came back normal. There was nothing out of the ordinary or that he was not already being treated for. But it was not known why he sought two examinations back to back. You know, and they were only about a month apart, though it's possible that because he had various health issues over the years, he was just being cautious if something came up.

So while the rest of his family stayed put in Maine, Johnny eventually relocated to Lynchburg, Virginia for a fresh start. Now Lynchburg, more than 800 miles or over a thousand kilometers from his hometown of Bangor, is the center of the state of Virginia and has a population of about 80,000 people. He found an apartment on Kemper Street located in downtown Lynchburg, just blocks from the James River, which cuts through the city. The building house 15 loft style units and what, you know, looks like from the outside like a warehouse. Right, so that's not, it's not super big.

Fifteen apartments, not huge. Yeah. So on Thursday, April 14, 2022, 38-year-old Johnny Cashman returned home to his apartment at 3.03 pm. Now, he was seen on security camera footage ascending the narrow wooden staircase, wearing a black t-shirt, red tennis shoes, jeans, and a camouflage lakers hat. Slung on his back was a red backpack with a jacket hanging over it, and he had been holding a glass cup that appeared to be full of liquid at the time. Some actually wonder if he had been drinking that afternoon because he had kind of been swaying when he was walking up the stairs to his apartment, which was apartment number 67, but this is still pretty unclear.

Yeah, you guys can see we're going to post it. It looks like he's kind of crossing his legs a little bit like step after step. And so I think that's what people mean is he's kind of shifting his body a lot, not walking very straight, you know? Yeah, but that's also kind of sometimes what it looks like when people walk upstairs. Yeah, and he was looking down. So it's like, that happens, but also it's not very relevant to me if he was drinking, but it might come into play later, so it's just worth mentioning.

And also, unlike pretty much every other case that we've ever covered, this camera footage is incredibly good quality and it's color, so we will post the relevant bits on our socials because there's quite a few. And the camera basically shows the indoor staircase with windows lighting it very well on one side. And directly under the camera is Johnny's apartment door on the left side and no other apartments are in view. So this is a very good angle.

Yeah, clear shot of the front door. Very clear. So, sorry, keep going. So, Johnny entered the door code to his apartment, walked inside the house completely by himself, and shut the door behind him. What happened inside in the minutes that followed is still a disturbing mystery, and may always be. His family said with certainty based on his physicality that they do believe that it was him in the video and not someone impersonating him, which is an important detail to be able

to establish the timeline of his death. Almost immediately after Johnny returned home, approximately one minute, their surveillance camera footage picked up what sounded like a struggle inside of his apartment. Johnny, who at the time had a friend from out of town staying with him for a few days, can be heard on the footage, but the other person is barely audible, making what you hear even more eerie. So we're gonna play that audio now and then we're gonna read a transcript to kind of clear up any audio issues since the camera is picking up the audio from outside of his front door

so it's not too loud, but you can hear what's going on. So here's the clip. O, shoo, what the fuck, what the fuck are we doing? Stop it, yo, what the fuck, shoo? We're doing a thing, shoo. What the fuck, shoo? What are you doing, man? Stop, stop. What are you doing in there? Stop! Stop! Stop!

So pretty disturbing audio, definitely very terrifying, you know, right when the audio begins, Johnny sounds very caught off guard. Yeah, it honestly sends shivers down my spine just listening to that. Totally, so I'm just going to go over the transcript now. So shortly after Johnny closes the door behind him, like he said, it's pretty much exactly one minute. It's like 60 or 61 seconds later. He can be heard yelling, Oh, dude, what the fuck? Fuck, bro, what are you doing? Then some kind of

like, thud, that sounds like something being dropped on the floor or perhaps Johnny getting pushed to the floor, that can be heard. And then comes a muffled, stop it. And then, yo, what the fuck, dude? Then another third and clatter that sounded something like maybe glass or metal hitting the wooden floor. Then, what are you doing, man? Then the sound of two loud clicks, that sound almost like maybe heavy dishes in the sink rubbing against each other, but it's very unclear. Then you hear Johnny say, stop it. And then a very disturbing moment of silence.

Then another pleading from Johnny. Stop, please. Then there's Garbled talking. That sounds like maybe Johnny was saying, what are you doing? And perhaps the person that he was speaking to was talking very quietly back to him. Then Johnny started to sound more desperate

at this point yelling, what are you doing, man? Stop, stop it. Then there's silence and a few more soft thuds. And then once again, you hear, stop, stop. And at this point, Johnny sounds very out of breath and says, what are you doing, man? And then after that, it was silent.

So after this, at 3.11 PM, a man who is not Johnny, exits the apartment by himself. Remember, Johnny walked in alone, which means whoever this is, was already inside his apartment. Yeah, and we obviously know that it's not Johnny, because there's no way he was going to change his clothes that quickly. And it doesn't even look like him anyway. It doesn't. We're going to get into this. This is absolutely not him.

So also to remind you, Johnny had gotten home at 3 o 3 pm, which means this entire exchange from Johnny getting home, you know, minute passing before anything starts to happen. This whole struggle, you know, whatever happened in that confrontation, to happen, this whole struggle, whatever happened in that confrontation, to this mysterious man leaving, took just eight minutes. Now the man appeared to be around Johnny's age. He was a white man of average height and build. He's wearing like khaki pants, or they kind of also look like brown jeans. I don't know which one. He's also wearing a black leather jacket.

And like Johnny, he had been wearing a black t-shirt. So here's what happens. We're gonna post the video. You guys should definitely watch it. It's very unsettling. So the man closes the door behind him and descends down the narrow staircase that Johnny had walked up just minutes earlier. Early, he briefly pauses at the bottom of the stairs before turning around swiftly and climbing them again and either wiping down the door handle with the sleeve of his jacket or making sure that he closed the door all the way

so it was locked. It kind of appears that he's doing both. At first I thought it was just the wiping of the door knob and then I'm like, wait, it kind of looks like he's jiggling on it to make sure it closed. So it's unclear there. It looks like both. But what you see in the video makes you think

that he's trying to possibly cover up fingerprints. Oh yeah, I mean, it's not like a good feeling that you get from him going back to the door and then going back down. And then at this point, as also, I wanted to say, as he made his going back to the door and then going back down. And then at this point, as also I wanted to say, as he made his way back up the stairs before touching the door knob again,

his face is exposed. Like he's looking down a bit at his feet like Johnny was when he came up, but he's not trying to conceal his face or his face from the camera. And again, it's daylight. You can fully see this man. Yeah, and possibly he doesn't even know

that the camera is actually there. I wish we knew. Because it doesn't look like he ever looks directly at the camera, so maybe he doesn't realize it's there. Well, okay, so there are other photos of him which we're gonna talk about from different occasions, but I wonder what this camera looked like or if he knew what, if he knew if it was in service,

or if he just didn't care, because it feels very, like it feels like a huge overlook to ignore that camera. Absolutely, yeah. So as he's walking back down, he flattens his already popped collar of his leather jacket, so he just pushes it down, and then he descends the staircase a second time.

Now he pauses at the second to last step for a second and rubs his face and his hair with both of his hands before continuing to walk down to the hallway and exiting to the left. It kind of almost looks like he's at the very last moment that you see him. He's like putting his arms over his head. It looks like he's maybe trying to like take his jacket off or something but we're not sure. And then he's maybe trying to like take his jacket off or something, but we're not sure. And then he's off camera.

Now within one minute of leaving Johnny's apartment at 312 PM, after the leather jacket clad mystery man exits the building like after the door clicks closed. Johnny can be heard on the audio of the security camera yelling for help. And then there's a pound and then a low-moning cry of help multiple times. I'm going to play that right now. It's just a few seconds. Just you guys can hear this as well. Starting with the click of the, April 13th, 2022. The day before whatever happened to Johnny inside of his apartment that day, although a few

reports claim that he had actually spoken to his mom on the day of his death. Johnny's mom and sister have said that they spoke with Johnny daily, so when five days passed and they hadn't heard from him, the whole family grew concerned. On April 18, 2022, five days after Johnny's family had last spoken to him, and four days since he had last been seen on the security camera footage outside of his apartment, his sister Sarah called the Lynchburg Police Department and requested a welfare check. The following morning, April 19th, at 6.42am, the police knocked and announced themselves but received no answer.

They knocked again a minute later and still received no response, and also did not hear any activity coming from inside that indicated that Johnny was home. About an hour and a half later at 8.01am, police knocked one more time and still heard nothing in response, so this time they entered the home. Now immediately, they came upon Johnny's lifeless body, lying in the hallway by the front door. He was lying face up on the floor, still wearing the same outfit as the last time he had been seen on that security camera footage, and he was covered in blood.

It was clear that he had been dead for days. The medical examiner took him in immediately and an inspection of his body was completed just two hours later. The inspection stated that Johnny was found unresponsive and it says, quote, supine on the floor in the hallway and supine is the position of lying horizontally and facing up. So his body was laying straight up. The only drug found at the scene was a pack of cigarettes.

And under both case facts and circumstances surrounding death, the responding officer listed on the report as investigator Tyler Miller wrote, quote, found obviously deceased at home by law enforcement officers upon welfare check. Blood with fecal matter mixed in found around home, likely gastrointestinal bleed per investigators. No trauma, no drugs, nothing suspicious. Identification okay. History, hypertension, bad liver, tobacco use.

Seen at Johnson Health Center for Care per prescription monitoring program, meaning that they were monitoring or monitoring him for drug use, knowing that he struggled with addiction. Now, according to law enforcement, they conducted a thorough search of the apartment and were able to rule out foul play. Oh, God, this just frustrates me. I know.

The only item seized from the apartment for further testing were Johnny's white iPhone and six sample swabs from around the apartment. That same morning, they contacted Johnny's family back in Maine to let them know the tragic news and informed them that they believe that he died of complications from a medical condition. Now before his family even saw the aftermath of Johnny's death, I.e. all the blood left behind in his apartment. Police initially told Johnny's mom that they thought he died of a heart attack.

But ultimately, police and the medical examiner surmised from the presence of blood mixed with fecal matter found at the scene that it was an unspecified medical condition. But that was apparently the extent of the explanation. Like, what does that even mean? Look. An unexplained medical condition, they have no fucking idea. I agree, and I also just want to say, as we talk about this case, there's probably people listening right now that are in the medical field, and maybe people who have seen cases

of like vomiting, excessive amounts of blood, we're gonna touch on that later. So, obviously, Heathen, I have our opinions we're not in the medical profession. No, we're not. I just wanna say that we are gonna touch on that. But of course, I mean,

it's just, it's shocking to me that so quickly, they chalk this up to a medical condition. And I do also want to say, because it feels important to share, for the first time, we are going to share photos on our socials of his apartment. Like, for the first time, we're sharing photos of blood and a crime scene, which we never do. But to understand how much blood was throughout his whole apartment, which is incredibly important, we will post them. If they're not up, they may have been taken down, but if so, you can easily

find them on Google. But again, like, the fact that they didn't even bother to check the security footage, which they did have in their possession, by the way, and then to just not even look into this as a possible homicide, just based on the looks of his apartment It's just insanely disappointing. Yeah, it really is. I also just want to say for anybody who does not want to go see those or can't see them We are going to describe them in a little bit more detail here in a few minutes So Johnny's family remembers asking the Lynchburg police department point blank if there were any signs of foul play to which they were informed that there were not. Police also informed them that because it was such an open and shut case, they did not

feel it warranted an autopsy. This would be a huge issue later, especially considering the investigator had said there was no trauma, which really didn't appear to be the case based on the audio from the video. And also based on just the crime scene. Very true. Now, according to Johnny Sister Sarah, the family wasn't even given the option of having an autopsy. And they, of course, would have done so, because the fact that he was just suddenly dead

was such a mystery to them. The family were understandably devastated, but there was one silver lining. Investigators stated that they were certain that he did not suffer, and that he had passed away instantly from his ailment. I just don't know how you come to that conclusion. I-I-I don't understand that either. Especially with all the blood, like, all over his apartment, even if you're saying that he did die from a medical condition and he was vomiting blood everywhere, you're telling me he didn't suffer

while that was happening. That sounds like suffering. Yeah. So wanting to give him a proper send-off back in Maine, Johnny's family had him cremated and brought home to them. The apartment sat empty while Johnny's family tried to make sense of his sudden death. But on April 29, 2022, Johnny's ex-girlfriend requested access to the apartment to retrieve some items that she had left there. She and her mom stopped by to pick up her things, but were completely unprepared for what

they found. The women walked into the most shocking scene that they had ever come across, which Johnny's ex-girlfriend photographed so that she could show Johnny's family, blissfully unaware hundreds of miles away that something had gone terribly wrong in Johnny's ex-girlfriend went to his apartment to gather some of her things with her mom and came upon a horrific scene because no one in the family was made aware of what Johnny's apartment looked like before they had him cremated or else they would not have done so.

And once again, be warned about the photos because they are graphic and they do show excess blood in Johnny's apartment. But we did post them, but here's what they look like for those who can't or don't want to view them. At the base of the front door frame, the front door where Johnny's body was found, there are small pools, droplets, and lines of blood, along with a piece of plastic, and what looks like a piece of discarded clothing. On the wall and interior doorframe nearby, there are smeared bloody handprints and large splatters. There are also smeared bloody handprints on the hardwood floor as if he was trying to

like pull himself along the floor or pull himself up using the wall. There's another large smear of blood on the door leading to the kitchen. There are multiple smears and pools of blood in front of a brick wall that surrounds a window and large amounts of blood on the window pane and window sill that make it look as if Johnny may have been trying to open the window to call for help. In front of said window, aside from the blood smears on the floor, there is an empty discarded water bottle, a piece of paper, and a towel, both with blood stains on them. A green floral print fabric armchair sits sideways in front of the window,

and it's tucked into an alcove with what looks like the jacket that Johnny had been carrying on his backpack when he came home that day. On the seat cushion of the chair and the left armrest are also blood stains that kind of look like he may have sat down after he started bleeding. So this is kind of painting a disturbing scene that he may have gone over to the chair

and like I said, maybe gone to the window to try to get help. Farther away from the window, there are more dark pools and droplets of blood. Bloody footprints, a bloody towel lying flat on top of a rug, a pile of clothing, and a pair of tennis shoes, all of which appear to be coated with droplets of blood. But the bathroom is the most terrifying part of the scene by far.

There are more of what look like bloody handprints on the lower portion of the wall in the bathroom, and some on a grey towel that's hanging on the wall what look like bloody handprints on the lower portion of the wall in the bathroom, and some on a grey towel that's hanging on the wall that look like he may have been trying to grab onto it. The amount of blood on the floor of the bathroom is, in a word, unbelievable. The amount is so excessive that it seems surprising that he was able to live long enough to get himself to the door of the apartment after losing that much blood. There are blood droplets, smears, and streaks on the walls.

The toilet seat is up, there are droplets on the toilet seat, and blood is streaming down the sides of the bowl. The tan wood cabinet with only one drawer pole is also splattered with blood, as is the white wash basin and sink, and the white shower curtain. The toilet paper roll and holder were missing from the wall as well. I mean, it's just everywhere, like it's genuinely horrific to look at, and it's shockingly everywhere. But it's also like, once you can see it, that's how you can kind of try to understand more of maybe what happened by being able to see

that it's all over the walls. It's in the sink. It's in the toilet. It's next to the toilet. It's on the floor. It's in the closet. It's on the window. Like it's on the door frames and the doors and the hallway. It's like all over the walls everywhere. So on her way out of the apartment, Johnny's shocked ex-girlfriend actually bumped into Johnny's neighbor and explained to her what she had just seen. The neighbor offered to share the security camera footage, which she had already turned over to the Lynchburg PD after she learned of Johnny's passing, because she had seen another person on the footage and found it really suspicious. So she turned it over to them the day that Johnny's body was found, but it was never shared or even

discussed with the family. Something I'm thinking to I wonder if from the angle of where the camera is if right below it is the neighbor's door and that's why it's like their security camera that's looking out from their door you know what I mean and his door happens to be in view I think that's yeah that's what it is because it wasn't like the buildings camera it was hers no it was like her personal camera to her apartment but it showed that well. Exactly. And you guys really should go look at that. So the neighbor shared the footage with Johnny's ex-girlfriend who passed it along to Johnny's sister Sarah. And the cashmins had already known that something didn't feel right about what happened, but this confirmed their suspicions that something had definitely gone wrong in Johnny's apartment that day. Both his ex-girlfriend and sister called

and pleaded with the police to reopen the case and conduct a proper investigation. The police stuck to their original assessment that his death had been quick and did not involve foul play, and they maintained that Johnny had likely been throwing up blood ahead of his death and that as reported in their initial findings, a nondescript medical condition had been the cause. So after seeing the video footage and photos of the aftermath, the whole Cashman family,

but especially his sister Sarah, felt that the police had not conducted a thorough investigation. So Sarah reached out to ABC News herself because she says that police weren't getting her anywhere. Finally, on May 2, 2022, about three weeks after Johnny's death and after ABC 13 News in Virginia began putting out coverage about the case, the Lynchburg police officially put out a request for information about the man in the picture, citing him as a possible witness and the case of the death of Johnny Cashman and circulated it. However, the Lynchburg Police Department continued to refuse to grant interviews or speak with the news outlets.

On May 11th, 2022, the mysterious man in the video footage was finally identified. So it took about a month, but he's a young man named Stephen Church, a man from Elizabeth X Tennessee, and the friend who had been staying with Johnny for a few days leading up to his death. But the circumstances surrounding Steven's visit, how they knew each other, why Steven had been visiting in the first place, how long he had been there, etc. were very unclear. On June 7, 2022, Lynchburg PD issued a statement that said, quote, The Lynchburg Police Department has located the witness sought in the death investigation

that began in April. On May 23, 2022, detectives with the LPD Criminal Investigations Division were able to locate and speak with Stephen Church in Nashville, Tennessee. Church was cooperative with detectives and provided a statement that outlined events preceding John Cashman's death.

This is an ongoing investigation. Any additional updates will be provided as a news release. So with this, to just about everyone, it seems strange that he was not arrested, detained, or seemingly even considered, a suspect in Johnny's death. On October 7, 2022, the Lynchburg Commonwealth's attorney, Bethany Harrison, announced that Lynchburg PD were officially closing the investigation. This was about a month ago from when we were recording this, and they were deciding to stick with the original ruling. Bethany Harrison explained that she had reviewed the photos, the crime scene, and

the surveillance camera footage. According to his interview with police, Stephen Church said that he stayed with Johnny for just three days. On that particular day, he claimed that Johnny had come home drunk and the two had gotten into a fight, but that it had not been a physical altercation. And I beg to differ, like if that were the case, I don't think Johnny would have just said things like, you know, because really he only said things like, what the fuck and help? And stop it. And stop over and over again.

Like if this was a fight, like a verbal argument, there would have been an actual conversation, not just screaming from Johnny and no other voice is heard. Like, yeah, yeah. It would have been different if they were yelling back and forth. Right, right, that did not happen. You didn't hear Steven saying anything. Nothing at all. And Steven Church said that he left Johnny's apartment after the fight and that Johnny had been

inebriated, but that physically he seemed okay. But what doesn't make sense here is the timeline. So, like how are we supposed to believe that the destruction to the apartment and Johnny's supposed medical condition all happened in the minute between when Stephen left the apartment and when Johnny started calling for help. And as for the extremely incriminating action of wiping his fingerprints off the door handle with his sleeve, Stephen claims he did this because he had multiple charges of aggravated burglaries on his record and he didn't want to be accused of breaking an entering or squatting in the apartment.

But like, why would he have been concerned about this if he was simply staying a few nights at his friend's apartment? Like, we don't know. Your friend literally allowed you to stay there. So why would you be worried about breaking and entering? Right, maybe because you know something like that he's dying inside.

So another strange thing is that, as you heard in the audio of the supposed altercation between the two men, like we said, I mean, Steven is barely audible at all. Like are we to believe that a fight broke out that was bad enough for Steven to storm out and not return if Steven had nothing to say? And why didn't he bring anything with him when he left if he had been staying at Johnny's apartment for three days. Yeah, he just took off with like nothing and didn't come back.

So the fact that exactly one minute after Johnny enters the apartment door, like he seemed surprised and caught off guard, which I know I mentioned earlier, but as you guys heard in the audio, he goes, Oh, dude, what the fuck? What are you doing? He says it and it's like, he sounds so surprised. Like that makes it seem like Steven had possibly left with his things earlier and then gone back and waited for Johnny to arrive home, possibly even ambushing him after Johnny came through the front door,

hence the other surprise in Johnny's voice. And one thing that I do wonder about also though is a murder weapon because if, we say if, Stephen is behind this, like in the footage, Stephen isn't carrying anything. He doesn't seem to have blood on him from what we can see, though to be fair, he's wearing a lot of black. But still, it doesn't really make sense either that there's this horrific bloody scene inside and Stephen doesn't have any blood on

him as far as we can see yeah I mean it's it's really really hard to tell and I know this is really good camera footage but it is very hard to see if there was you know any sort of blood at all or I mean it doesn't even it's hard to see if there was any sort of blood at all, or I mean, it doesn't even, it's hard to even tell if he was ruffled at all by the situation that had just occurred inside. I mean, we knew his collar was up. He also messed with his face and with his hair when he got to the bottom of the stairs. Yeah, I mean, those are a few little indications.

Yeah, but I mean, it's still, it's just, it's really hard to say. I mean, the whole thing is so, like so genuinely confusing. Attorney Bethany Harrison remarked, quote, given the pattern of blood loss by Kashmin, that there were no other shoe patterns in the blood other than his own, that his medical history and current prescriptions

and risk factors were consistent with his death resulting from a fatal medical event something i want to mention though is with the whole nobody else's footprints in the blood how do you know did you there's no report anywhere that we could find that stated that they actually went back and did a second investigation they did not re-open this case they're going based off of the footage and the photos that johnny's ex-girlfriend

took so how the hell do you know how many footprints are in that house They're going based off of the footage and the photos that Johnny's ex-girlfriend took. So how the hell do you know how many footprints are in that house? Yeah, very true. I mean, it seems like they basically just took his body, cremated it, and said, Oh, medical condition. Yeah. So in an interview with ABC13 News, the day after Attorney Bethany Harrison made the ruling that there was no criminal investigation needed. Sarah argued, quote, Everything they talk about in here was just things that we provided, and instead, they prolonged

this, hoping that we would kind of forget about it, and then randomly close the case, I guess, yesterday, with no warning, and once again, the report wasn't sent to me or my mom or my dad. It was sent second hand. It generally feels not genuine, not factual, and dismissive, because I understand that there's a lot of people who can get in trouble because of this. The medical examiner, the police department, and they're saying the bare minimum to make sure that we don't turn around and try and sue for police negligence.

Sarah also felt that law enforcement were completely dismissive of the idea that Stephen Church had been involved in any capacity, even after they questioned him. After pressing the police, who had information on Stephen that they had not released publicly, nor to Johnny's family, Sarah and her parents learned that Stephen had actually driven to Johnny's apartment in Lynchburg from Tennessee, nearly a four-hour drive and a stolen truck. He had taken the truck from his father who had reported it stolen, but eventually dropped the charges. Now, according to Stevens' family, this was not the first time that he had done this,

and this was one of many prior criminal charges. But law enforcement still wasn't looking at him as a suspect, which the Kashman family is dumbfounded by. In her interview with ABC, Sarah who again is Johnny Sister, also said, quote, at 3.11 pm, which is right after the fighting, Stephen Leaves, and they do say that they were cries for help. What they don't make clear is that the cries for help start exactly when the outer door to the apartment complex clicked closed. That's because Johnny had been attacked by Steven Church, and he was waiting for him to leave the apartment building before crying for help. If you have been attacked, you don't cry for help while the murderer is still in the building. That's common sense. I do agree with her. Yeah, I mean, especially in that very moment, if you're being attacked, I mean, it's like,

I guess that's hard to say, I suppose. Well, Stevens' shoes are quite clicky and loud, like they must have been boots or something, because when he's going down the stairs, it's very loud. And it's not long after he descends the stairs that he exits the building altogether, and that loud click is heard. So I do understand what she's saying. Can you hear the click from upstairs and through his closed door? I don't know, but it's very possible.

It is really weird that he starts crying for help right after Stephen leaves the building all together. Right. I guess what I was trying to say is that during the attack, he's not saying help. He's saying, stop it. Like, stop it, please. Yes. Yes, very true.

I think what Sarah meant is that the police are kind of saying that they think so because Stephen claims when he was inside the apartment there was nothing physical about their interaction and that instead they just had a verbal argument then Stephen left and after that when you can hear the cries for help within the minute that Stephen leaves suddenly Johnny has a medical condition that results in all the blood going throughout the apartment. Right in his death. Yeah. So Sarah's saying, well then if that's the case, first of all, how the hell did that just happen to happen right after Stephen left? And secondly, why is he calling for help right after Stephen

actually leaves the building? It's like the timing just seems all too convenient, right? Yeah, it's just really fishy. Yeah, so that that's what Sarah meant So it's just it just goes to explain more so why this is such a bizarre story so Now this may not point to anything suspicious at all, but Stephen's Facebook Contains quite a few kind of a nerving posts, if you will. None of them are specifically violent or threatening, but they definitely come off as a little unhinged, I will say.

So in 2021, Stephen began dating a woman also from Elizabeth 10 named Tony, and his entire feed is like a shrine to her. So in January, three months before Johnny died, the pair broke up allegedly, and Steven posted about the breakup and her dozens of times, like one after the other, like alternating between regret and wanting to win her back, and anger that she had ruined what they had, and even writing what sounded like a vague threat. I mean, there are honestly too many like erratic, mildly disturbing quotes from his Facebook to share, but here's one that we found kind of interesting.

It says quote, just in case you were still looking at my profile from someone else's, yes, I blocked you. And if I could take a fucking pill that would block you from my mind, you best believe I would kill for it. So is it possible that something happened with Steven's ex-girlfriend Tony and Johnny that made Steven want to, you know, seek revenge? Possibly. Sarah believes Steven is very dangerous and should be feared. Saying quote, he's violent.

He left the apartment with no signs of remorse, and if the Commonwealth of Virginia wants to let this go, it will happen again. So is it possible that he died of a medical condition that Stephen Church had nothing to do with? One comment on YouTube, red quote, as an ER nurse of 25 years, gastrointestinal bleeds are the worst. I've had two men whose rooms looked like crime scenes before we could get tubes down them. They were distraught and disoriented, literally fighting staff.

We had to throw down blankets to walk on so I wouldn't slip down in blood. And their only medical history was alcoholism. So I could totally see this happening in the absence of any wounds. Which of course we don't know if there were wounds because there was no real autopsy. Correct. So one affliction that could lead to the fate that befell Johnny is a soft-geal varices. And this is when the veins in the throat become enlarged with excess blood flow because blood flow to the liver is constricted.

It's usually caused by serious liver disease, often as a side effect of alcohol abuse. The most common symptom is vomiting large amounts of blood. It can also cause bloody stools, which could account for the fecal matter found at the scene, loss of consciousness, and an extreme case's death. It's also possible that his fate was caused by cirrhosis. In extreme cases, cirrhosis of the liver can cause both black and tarry stools, and vomiting blood. With liver damage that severe, the blood can't flow through the liver properly, causing a dramatic increase in pressure on the veins that carry blood into the liver.

But even if one of these predicaments is in fact what caused Johnny's death, the Paltry investigation led by police leaves Johnny's family with more questions than answers. Why have police announced that Stephen Church is no longer a person of interest? Surely, his DNA was all over the apartment, and he should have been given more than just a cursory questioning. If Steven was to blame for Johnny's death, how was he able to make it look like a tragic medical accident? Were there no obvious physical wounds? Could Steven have beaten Johnny so hard

that he caused intestinal rupture, causing Johnny to vomit blood in his final moments? But the most troubling question of all is, given the shocking amount of blood present at the scene, why were police so willing to write this off as a routine medical event? police so willing to write this off as a routine medical event. If you have any information regarding the death of Johnny Cashman, please call the Lynchburg Police Department at 434-455-6050. Thank you so much everybody for listening to this episode of Going West. Yes, thank you guys so much for listening to this episode and on Tuesday we'll have an all new case for you guys to dive into. This story is just so crazy because it really is difficult. Like I have a hard time personally believing that Steven is not involved in this in some way,

but I also wonder like where is the murder weapon? How did he die? Like the fact that we don't have an autopsy, we don't know if there were any wounds, if he was beaten, if he was stabbed, we don't know those things. So it's hard to speculate that he was, but it's also hard to speculate that he wasn't because the scene was just so insane. Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with you.

I really want to know what you guys think of this case. So please let us know in the comments section. You can head on over to our socials. We're on Instagram at Going West Podcast. We're on Twitter at Going West Pod, we're on Twitter at Going West Pod, and we also have a discussion group. So please everybody that's in that group. On Facebook. Yeah, on Facebook. Sorry, I forgot to mention that. But yeah, if you're on there, please comment and let us know what you think.

Yes, absolutely. It would be good to know what you guys are thinking because I feel like this is one of those cases that you just want to talk about and kind of like, fledg out. You know what I mean? So also, please share, because especially if you think something suspicious went on here, please share because his family is just so frustrated by the lack of answers and the lack of help from the police and how quickly they were to shut it or how quick they were to shut it down rather. So please spread the word.

Thank you guys so much for tuning in. We love you. We'll see you next week All right guys, so for everybody out there in the world. Don't be a stranger Thank you. you