Going West: True Crime - Kyle Fleischmann // 360

Episode Date: November 28, 2023

In November of 2007, a 24-year-old man went missing after attending a popular comedy show with his family and friends in Charlotte, North Carolina. After security camera footage captured him leaving a bar and grabbing a slice of pizza, he seemed to vanish, and was never seen again. So what really happened to him that night, and why? This is the story of Kyle Fleischmann. BONUS EPISODES Apple Subscriptions: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-west-true-crime/id1448151398 Patreon: patreon.com/goingwestpodcast CASE SOURCES 1. NamUs: https://namus.nij.ojp.gov/case/MP2456 2. Help Find Kyle Fleischmann: https://www.facebook.com/groups/6326026817/ 3. True Crime Daily: https://truecrimedaily.com/2016/03/07/missing-north-carolina-college-grad-vanishes-after-night-of-celebration/ 4. Kyle Fleischmann Missing: https://www.instagram.com/kylefleischmannmissing/?fbclid=IwAR0KbV4YmbSrsPhDWQ0m95r8rL69RcFnN9IcU9jgtMp3IRHeIy352nACVfc 5. The Crime Wire: https://thecrimewire.com/true-crime/Missing-Kyle-Fleischmann 6. Charlotte Magazine: https://www.charlottemagazine.com/what-happened-to-kyle-fleischmann/#:~:text=He%20believes%20that%20his%20son,North%20Davidson%20and%2016th%20streets. 7. WBTV: https://www.wbtv.com/story/14310327/kyle-fleischmanns-father-releases-new-clues-in-case/ 8. Legacy: https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/charlotte/name/kyle-fleischmann-obituary?id=12854825 9. Vanished with Beth Holloway: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2044705/ 10. WCNC: https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/parents-of-missing-man-convinced-hes-buried-under-noda-apt-complex/275-51779788-5c09-44ef-95a0-747f25ca8ae3 11. Charlotte Observer: https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/charlotte/name/kyle-fleischmann-obituary?id=12854825 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What is going on True Crime fans, I'm your host Teez. And I'm your host Daphne. And you're listening to Going West. Hello everybody, I hope you had a great holiday weekend. Big thank you to Heather, Shannon, and Kayla for recommending today's case. We have a very bizarre young man's disappearance case at a North Carolina for you guys today. Very very reminiscent of a lot of cases that we've talked about thus far on this show. So yeah, stay tuned because it is really really wild how these cases just feel so similar. I know. We're going to talk about that later actually because it drives me insane as well.

But yeah, this one has a really interesting unique element to it and I cannot wait to hear what you guys think. So thank you for tuning in and let's talk about it. All right guys, this is episode 360 of Going West. So let's talk about it. All right guys, this is episode 360 of Going West, so let's get into it. In November of 2007, a 24-year-old man went missing after attending a popular comedy show with family and friends in Charlotte, North Carolina. After security camera footage picked him up leaving a bar and grabbing a slice of pizza alone, he seemed to vanish and was never seen again. So what really happened to him that night and why? This is the story of Kyle Fleischmann was born on September 24, 1983 to parents Barbara and Dick Fleischmann. The first born, he was later joined

by a sister named Noel, and a brother named Kurt. When Kyle was in high school, the family moved to Charlotte, North Carolina, where his dad had landed a new job working for Fidelity Investments. After attending Charlotte Catholic High School and graduating in 2002, Kyle headed to Elon University in Elon North Carolina, which is about an hour and 45 minutes north east of Charlotte. May during in business administration he graduated with a bachelor's degree in 2006, and after graduation Kyle moved back to Charlotte to be closer to his family and moved into an

apartment in the south of the city. And there, Kyle started working a job for a healthcare recruiting agency. Kyle was described as warm and trusting and his dad Dick remembers him as a social butterfly, saying that he loved going out with his large network of friends as well as meeting new ones. And he was one of those people who never met a stranger. His best friend, Daniel Skagnelli, called him the life of the party and said that he would bend over backwards for anyone in his life. But after Kyle had spent about a year back in Charlotte, the Fleischmann family received

some unwelcome news. In September of 2007, Kyle's mom Barbara was diagnosed with breast cancer. And according to Barbara, Kyle was endlessly supportive and positive and told her that they were going to fight her diagnosis together. So on Thursday, November 8, 2007, just days before Barbara was scheduled to head into her first surgery for treatment, Kyle, his sister and his mom decided to balance out the heaviness of the cancer diagnosis with the levity of a stand-up comedy show. You know, they just wanted to have a fun night together laughing with each other

before she had to do this very scary thing, this surgery. Yeah, very serious surgery. So 24-year-old Kyle was an avid comedy fan and had gotten his entire friend group hooked on comedian Dane Cook when they were in college. And obviously, you know, this was like peak Dane Cook comedy time. So true, he was in a bunch of rom coms at this time, like he was in Good Luck Chuck, employee of the month, like he was huge at this time. So they were so excited. Exactly. So that evening, Dane Cook was in town performing at the Bobcat Serena,

which is now called the Spectrum Center near Charlotte City Center. That evening, Kyle, his best friend, Daniel, Daniel's wife, Christina, and their friend Dom and Dom's girlfriend, all gathered at Daniel's apartment to have a drink before the show, you know, do a little pre-gaming. Knowing that they were gonna continue drinking, they decided to have a drink before the show, you know, do a little pre-gaming. Knowing that they were going to continue drinking, they decided to take a cab to the show, and

Kyle left his car parked at Daniel's house. Now his mom and his sister, Noel, were also attending this show of course, and they planned to meet Kyle for dinner beforehand, but they couldn't get their timing to align so that never happened. And his mom remembered, quote, We had planned to meet earlier for dinner and our plans just weren't sinking right. We kept missing each other. They were all seeing the show, but Noel and Barbara were sitting separately from Daniel

and his friends, so sadly Kyle didn't end up seeing his mom and sister that evening after all. I mean, it's kind of strange because they were at the same show, but they never ran into each other. So when this comedy show ended, Kyle and his best friend, Daniel, headed to the Buckhead Saloon, which is now since closed, but used to be located at the corner of East 5th Street and North College Street, just one block from the arena that hosted the show.

So, you know, this was an easy place for them to gather and continue the fun after this comedy show. So, Kyle texted his mom and sister asking if they wanted to meet at the Buckhead's saloon, but the girl said that they were just too tired and they decided to head home. Barbara remembered being kind of disappointed that they hadn't been able to see him that night, but they just didn't want to go to the bar and had just wished to see him at dinner instead. But they knew that they'd see him again that weekend, so they headed home while Kyle continued his evening with his friends. So at the bar, Kyle was as sociable as ever, and his best friend Daniel remembers quote,

Kyle was in a great mood that night. He was his normal self having a good time, happy, jovial, nothing out of the ordinary in terms of his attitude. And although they haven't been named publicly, reports detail that the friends encountered acquaintances at the bar, and we're chatting with new people that they met that night inside. The group began to disperse around midnight, but Kyle, who was always one to keep the night going, decided to stay. Knowing that he had work in the morning, Daniel departed the bar between 12.30 and 1 o'clock

in the morning on Friday, November 9, leaving Kyle with his new friends, who didn't at all feel like a concern, and I think this is a lot different with men, whereas girls are less likely to leave their friend alone or or even judged if they do so because of how generally less safe it is to you know be a woman out at night usually. Yeah I mean I totally agree with that and also on top of that like he's he's a young man he's he was just with his friends maybe he didn't have intentions to stay there that much longer. But I mean, even I've done this before.

I've gone out to a bar, met some new people, and stayed out probably by myself longer than I should have, but he feels safe. But also we have to remember this is the time before social media, or social media wasn't huge at this point. And he's just got his cell phone. We also don't have Uber around this time.

So a little bit more dangerous, I'd say, but he feels like it's fine. Yeah, Kyle seemed good, and it didn't seem like it was a problem leaving him. He was having a good time. There was no concern there. So as Daniel headed out, he even noticed that Kyle was talking to an

Attractive young woman that they didn't know. So now he's also thinking, oh, maybe Kyle's chatting up this girl. He wants to stay with her. Sure. He's getting it off. Yeah. Exactly. So Daniel later recalled, quote, right around then we had the conversation, you coming or you staying and he was having a good time. He'd connected with some folks and he was going to stay behind. But sadly, that would be the last time Daniel would ever see his best friend. Later that morning, Daniel awoke to find Kyle's car still parked at his house, so puzzled by this, since he assumed that Kyle would have come back for it that morning, he checked his phone and was alarmed to find that he had a miss call from Kyle early in

the morning. So he tried to call him back right away, but the call went directly to voicemail. So he called Kyle's family and roommates to see if they knew where he was, but strangely, no one did. But one of his roommates, as well as his sister and his dad, had also received missed calls from Kyle earlier that morning, with all of them having been asleep and missing the calls. But Kyle had tried to contact all these people in his life

and none of them knew why. But obviously, this doesn't look good, especially because Kyle never returned to Daniels to retrieve his car. He hadn't shown up for work that day, and hadn't answered anyone's calls that morning, all of which continued to go to voicemail. When 5.30pm rolled around with no sign of him, Daniel called the police to report his best friend missing. That's a good best friend right there.

Yeah, I mean, it hasn't even been 24 hours, but he's like, where the hell did he go? What happened to him? You know, especially knowing that he left him at the bar, and when someone tries to call you and then they're not answering, it's like, why did you call me? He didn't leave any one of voicemail.

And what's going on? Yeah, and you're so close with your best friend that you just know these inconsistencies in their lives, where you're like, that just doesn't sound like Kyle, that just doesn't sound like something he would do. Yeah, it's not adding up. So in the first of many blows to this investigation, the police actually informed Daniel

that it was too late in the day to begin an investigation. They apparently didn't file missing persons cases over the weekend, so his rescue efforts would have to wait begin an investigation. They apparently didn't file missing persons' cases over the weekends, so his rescue efforts would have to wait until Monday morning. I think that's one of the things about this case that pisses me off the most, is that, you know, obviously in everybody else's minds,

this seems urgent, but police are like, hey, yeah, we just don't do that on the weekends, and it's like, I get it, but this seems like something you might want to look into right away. Well, I wonder how much of it had to do with the fact that he's a 24-year-old man, and they're thinking, oh, he's fine. Well, absolutely, yeah. Which obviously isn't always true.

But knowing how crucial those early hours are, his family and friends launch their own vigorous search measures that very day. Daniel created a Facebook group that quickly amassed thousands of followers, and luckily, the group's posts and news of Kyle's disappearance were quickly spreading around the Charlotte area. Now, Kyle's dad dick theorized that Kyle had tried to call him so many times without leaving a message because he needed an immediate response. Yeah, so he calls somebody, they're not answering okay, now I got to call this person. Exactly.

But didn't leave a single voicemail. Right, so he either needed like a ride or he had been in some kind of trouble. And this definitely makes sense, like you don't get an answer from one, you move on to the next. And he's probably assuming if they're not answering, it means they're asleep. And so they're not going to get that voicemail the morning so it's useless to leave one even though it actually would have helped them understand what was going on in those crucial moments. Sure. In hindsight, of course.

Dick had actually been Dick his father had actually been out of town for work that night staying at a hotel in Raleigh, but he guess that Kyle hadn't been able to find a ride home from the bar and in the days before Uber and Lyft, as I mentioned, the options to get a ride home that late at night were basically very limited. So when questioned if it's possible that he could have taken off and run away from his life, his father Dick said absolutely not. He had even been out to lunch with his son two days prior and said that everything seems normal with him, which is what everybody said about him.

He was looking forward to his mom's surgery, hoping that it would be a step on the right path toward remission for her. He was also devoting much of his time to work and he wasn't seeing anybody romantically. He just seemed to be in a good and stable place at this point. There had been no activity on his cards, in his bank accounts, or on his phone since his disappearance, so it was clear that something just wasn't right here. Many of the questions he was wondering how drunk he had been, and if it's possible that he had been in an accident, or had gotten lost because he was so out of sorts from

drinking, but his best friend Daniel believes that that's pretty unlikely, saying, quote, Kyle wasn't extremely intoxicated by any means. I'm sure he was feeling pretty good, I know I was personally, but I don't think that he had reached the point where he wasn't aware of his surroundings. Things to the Facebook page spreading awareness rapidly, the community of Charlotte banded together behind the flashmins. Hundreds of volunteers alongside Kyle's family and friends set out to do what police were waiting two more days to do. The group walked the neighborhood that Kyle had been visiting that night hoping to come

across any sign of him or speak to someone who had seen him. And they paped the streets with missing posters and daundy t-shirts with his face and information on them. They checked every local hospital, homeless shelter, and jail, but found no trace of him anywhere he was just gone. Before the police even started working on the case, The flashmines had hired a private investigator, and on Saturday, November 10, 2007, over 24 hours since anyone had seen Kyle, the private investigator made the first advancement in the case. Left behind in the Buckhead saloon were the last relics of Kyle that they could find.

His coat and his debit card. Though this felt like a step in the right direction, it was also an alarming discovery for his family because it meant that he had been without access to money after leaving the bar, which is likely why he had called so many people late that night, like he was maybe stuck downtown and needed a ride. Because without his card, he had no way to pay for a taxi. It was equally disturbing that his coat was recovered too because the temperatures had been hovering around 30 degrees Fahrenheit or about negative 1 degrees Celsius, so it was cold.

And people can freeze to death under 32 degrees Fahrenheit or under 0 degrees Celsius, so it was very dangerous to be out there without the proper clothes. And Kyle was clad in only a t-shirt, jeans, and dress shoes. The grassroots search efforts garnered an intense amount of media attention in Charlotte, and the news grabbed hold of the story due to how voraciously his family and friends were pursuing answers in Kyle's case. Still hard at work on their own investigation pursuits and now being assisted by a private investigator,

police finally joined in on Monday, November 12, 2007. So three days after he went missing. More valuable information came out as police were granted access to the surveillance footage from inside the Buckhead Saloon that fateful night. They carefully poured over the section where he can be seen chatting with that young woman at the bar, looking for any sign that things had gone awry after she talked to him. Police were even able to track her down and talk to her, though they announced that they did not see a connection with her at all.

But some don't believe this conclusion because the video footage depicted him dancing with and talking to this woman for over an hour, and she later left with a man who was identified as her boyfriend, along with two other men. So like did her boyfriend maybe seek some kind of retaliation for Kyle dancing with his girlfriend maybe. I mean, it seems like that's a genuine possibility because as we're going to get into, there was some sort of an argument outside the bar and police believe it was with this woman's young woman's accomplices.

Exactly. Because that is definitely a possible connection. So we will talk about that in a bit. But police also combed the footage from nearby establishments in the neighborhood, just hoping to piece together a timeline of his movements, engage the direction in which he had been going, as well as who, if anyone, he had been with. Kyle popped up on two other surveillance cameras in the early morning hours of November 9th. One was a loading dock, which as many of us know is not near water, but rather, you know,

it's a loading dock for a large building, which cameras captured him walking in front of, and the other was in neighborhood pizza place. And after those sightings, he seemed to vanish into the chilly fall night. But this was more information than the family had been working with, and being able to plot out his root that evening would prove to be a massive aid to the case. So let's get into what police and the private investigator learned of 24-year-old Kyle Fleischmann's timeline that night. So based on the Buckhead Saloon Security Camera footage, Daniel closed his tab at the bar between 12.15 and 12.30am on Friday morning.

So roughly two hours after he arrived there with Kyle in his friends. Then, Daniel let Kyle know that he was leaving, but Kyle said that he was set on staying put for a while, and that he would get a cab later. Between 1am and 2.15am, Kyle can be seen chatting up and dancing with that young woman. According to online theory, supposedly purported by Kyle's uncle, there may have been an altercation regarding Kyle spending so much of his night talking to and presumably flirting with this young woman, which, if true,

could change the direction of the entire investigation. So around 2am, a few bar patrons apparently reported hearing yelling between Kyle and the men who are with this young woman that Kyle had been talking to. So according to the family's private detective, who has remained anonymous all of these years for personal reasons, he said quote, there was some videotape we were able to gather from the manager of the Buckhead Saloon, showing Kyle first speaking with the young lady and then two guys.

In the footage, it looked like they were in a possible argument or confrontation with Kyle. The young lady then leaves and walks out to college street. Kyle then leaves as well. Kyle and the young lady then end up speaking as they're walking across the street. So this piece of the timeline has been dissected many times, and will likely continue to be discussed until the theory that, you know, this group of men was involved can be ruled out.

Though police have announced that they do not believe that this woman or her companions were involved, she's not yet been named publicly, and the details of this supposed altercation are limited. So it's kind of difficult to lay the theory to rest. At 2.17am, the woman exits Buckhead Saloon, along with her boyfriend and two male companions. After this, Kyle began to make his series of phone calls two minutes later at 2.19am, which is around the same time that he was spotted leaving the bar.

He first phoned his sister Noel from inside the bar, exiting when she didn't answer, and leaving behind his jacket and his debit card. And I do just want to mention that bars in Charlotte, North Carolina, close and North Carolina statewide, close at 2 a.m. which is pretty standard in the United States. So him leaving at 2.19 and the girl and those guys leaving at 2.17 is kind of weird to me. I know sometimes people stay a little later, but I feel like with last call, they really do try to get everybody out of bars at 2 o'clock, you know?

So to stay 20 minutes later, it's kind of weird to me, but I couldn't find any evidence that in 2007, it was not 2am, but I don't know. I mean, I've definitely been in that situation many times, where like back in my 20s, where you know, closing down a bar, it was like they do their last call, but everybody kind of sticks around,

finishing their drink, and sometimes it takes like a half hour to kind of usher people out. Right. So I do understand how this could have happened. Well, it is good to know that they most likely were closed at two because he left his coat in his debit card. So after he left, he really couldn't go back

and get them anyway. But I think we're gonna talk about that in a second, regardless. But I also wanna say that it's kind of interesting that he didn't call a cab and, you know, instead that he started looking for a ride before he realized that he left his jacket in his card behind because he's in the bar calling his sister and his dad and Daniel, et cetera. So it's interesting that before he even left the bar, he wasn't trying to call a cab. He immediately, like it would make more sense

if he left the bar and then he was like, oh shit, my car's in there. I have to call my family now. But he was literally in the bar where he could have gone and grabbed his card and he didn't try to call the cab. First, he first tried to get a ride from somebody that he knew.

I mean, that to me, there could be a large amount of reasons why he did that. Maybe it's because earlier, like his mom and his sister went to the comedy show and he felt bad that he didn't get to see them that night. Maybe he wanted to chat it up with him in the car on the way home or. But it's weird too,

because the comedy show ended around 10 o'clock. So it's weird too because that was not like 10 the comedy show ended around 10 o'clock Yeah, so it's weird that four hours later Four hours after his sister said I'm tired. I want to go home. He's calling and saying it potentially saying hey come pick me up Is it also possible that you know, maybe he didn't have Enough money on his debit card to get a cab home and maybe he's thinking, I don't really want to spend the money on a cab if a family member can just come pick me up. That's a good point. But also it's weird to me that despite it being freezing outside, like literally freezing, he continued to walk up the street without his card and his coat.

He's saying, like, oh shit, I left my coat, I better go get it. I don't know if maybe being inside a warm bar and drinking, he wasn't feeling that cold yet, but it's weird to me that it really doesn't matter, but it's weird to me that he would walk out in a t-shirt and wouldn't say, oh wait, where's my coat? He would just keep walking. Yeah, that's one of the details that I'm so confused about because you would imagine as soon as you walk outside,

you're like, damn, it's fucking cold out here. Like, where's my coat? Where's my coat? Oh, and do I have my card? It's like, he just, he kind of walked out, which to me could mean that he was at least decently intoxicated if he maybe wasn't thinking about it, you know?

Yeah, and also possibly when they were trying to get people out of the bar, get everybody to leave, he was thinking, oh shit, like maybe they closed up and they're not going to let anybody back in and like he just realized too late. Yeah, somehow something like that. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, so as he exited the bar, he supposedly engaged in a heated exchange with the men in front of the bar, but it was said to have only lasted a few minutes. He then walked down North College Street alone and was spotted on surveillance footage doing so. Then he sawntered by a loading dock which sported front facing cameras, and according

to those who have seen the footage as it has not all been released, he didn't appear to be scared or concerned or in any particular hurry at that time. Then around 2.30 am, so about 10 minutes after leaving the bar and after multiple attempts to call his family, Kyle popped into a nearby fuel pizza. Though he didn't have his card on him, he did have a small amount of cash, which he used to pay for the pizza.

This transaction actually may have been what made him realize that he had left his card back at the bar, because 12 minutes later, at 2.42 a.m., Kyle began placing more calls but to no avail. He first called a local business that he had been at earlier that day, though it's unknown which one and why, but maybe it was the buckhead saloon and he was just hoping to track down his card and cope before walking back there. Within that same minute at 2.42am, Kyle checked his phone's voicemail. In the next 15 minutes, he calls his dad three times trying both his cell phone and his work numbers, which is also interesting because he must have known that his dad was out of town,

but he's trying his dad multiple times, knowing that his dad cannot give him a ride. Maybe he's just trying multiple family members, just to see if just anybody will pick up, maybe he like, if he gets ahold of his dad, maybe his dad can get ahold of somebody else. I don't know, or he's asking his dad for advice. Who knows?

Very true. And just so everybody knows, Raleigh, where his dad was staying and Charlotte are two and a half hours drive from each other. So definitely not close enough to come pick him up. But yeah, again, I think just I'm wondering all these things because it just makes me think of his not mental state at the time, but what was going through his

head and what exactly he needed and why he was placing the calls in the first place. So 18 minutes after calling his dad those 3 times at 3am, he tried his sister Noel again. Almost 30 minutes after this at 3.28am, he called Daniel, and at 3.29am, he tried his roommate Bruce. But unfortunately, with it being so late, no one answered him, which is just such a sad part of this case to know that he went missing and tried so many times to call people, but nobody realized, which is fair because they were asleep, it's not their fault. But it, I mean, that's such a heartbreaking piece of this story. Yeah, it is not their fault, but it, I mean, that's such a heartbreaking piece of this story.

Yeah, it is a sad thought. So 30 minutes after trying Daniel and his roommate Bruce, at 4 a.m. around 3 hours before sunrise, his cell phone had either died or been turned off. Detectives were able to track down an employee a fuel pizza who claimed that he had a photographic memory, and had been the one to serve Kyle that night. The employee remembered that Kyle came in by himself, ordered two slices of everything pizza and paid in cash, recalling quote, he came in alone.

Normally not many people come in alone, but I took his order. I put his order in, I rang him up, and then right after I rang him up, he went to the bathroom. And he remembers Kyle coming in around 2.30 a.m. but didn't see him leave because they had gotten an influx of customers around that time. And you know, Kyle's dad Dick confirmed that he thought that this was true and it sounded consistent with his son Kyle, saying, quote, the fact that he had a pizza with everything on it, that's what he always ordered. If the guy would have said that he ordered a plain slice, I would have said, that doesn't sound like him.

So investigators followed his phone pings from fuel pizza to North Davidson Street, heading north and away from downtown. And this was a very strange revelation to his family, because he lived in South Charlotte, so why had he been heading north? This particular neighborhood that Kyle was wandering into was also known amongst locals for being a very CD part of town,

which was even more concerning. So his family said that he would never have willingly passed through that neighborhood in the middle of the night, and that it was likely that he decided to walk home, but had gotten disoriented and walked in the wrong direction. Especially if his phone's dead, you know, I don't know what kind of phone he had, but it was 2007, it's possible that he had the first iPhone. I don't know if he had a smartphone, and if he could have

looked up directions on his phone at that time, probably not, but either way, having his cell phone would have been very useful to try to get help in some way, and he didn't have that resource. Absolutely. And, you know, in the entirety of this case, we talk so much about how, you know, the future of technology and all these different things that can help us out nowadays, it's just a shame that those didn't exist back when he went missing because, you know,

like Uber, Apple Maps, find my friends apps, things like that, like all these things could have really helped. Yeah, we have so many great resources today with technology. So apparently after, you know after walking in this wrong direction, Kyle's phone either died or it was shut off along his route. So the last time that his phone peaked was near the entrance of Cordelia Park, which was two miles or 3.2 kilometers from Buckhead, Saloon.

So he walked a pretty long ways. By this point, he had been out walking for an hour and a half and freezing temperatures without a coat. Later that week Barbara was scheduled to go in for surgery to treat her cancer, which was hard for her to do because all she could focus on at that time was figuring out what happened to Kyle, so obviously you can imagine how unthinkably difficult this week was for her and her entire family. But reluctantly, Barbara decided to follow through

with her surgery, but just hours before she was due to go under for her procedure, a new development materialized. Because a taxi driver actually came forward with information about Kyle's disappearance, claiming to have seen him that night. The driver said that he had seen someone matching Kyle's description, walking in the

1100 block of North Davidson Street early on the morning that he was last seen. The taxi driver claimed that this man stuck out because it had been so cold outside and the person had been dressed in just a t-shirt and jeans, just like Kyle had been. The family's private investigator who took the tip from the driver said, quote, �The cab driver said he recalled seeing a white male that looked similar to the description that we were putting out on Kyle Fleischmann. He told us he was traveling outbound on North Davidson Street, approaching the 1100 block, approaching the railroad tracks near Hunter Recre service.

He knew enough about the area that he gave details. So Kyle's dad Dick said that the family felt hopeful for the first time in almost a week with this tip as this seemed like a pretty credible one that could point them in the direction of where Kyle disappeared from. He recalled, quote, the cab driver couldn't 100% identify him, but my feeling is that the guy made a comment of compassion and was worried about somebody, which means that he saw him pretty good. He saw a kid with no jacket, a kid they felt this guy even said, was not in the right place.

He did say he was intoxicated, and the time of day he said he saw him was exactly when Kyle's cell phone was going off in that area. So I believe they saw him absolutely. But although this seemed like a pretty reliable sighting, this was still a massive area to search, and no sign of Kyle, his phone, or his clothing was in the vicinity. According to locals, Cordelia Park was known for late-night gang and drug related activity, and was frequented by the notorious MS-13 gang, which is thought to be the most dangerous

in the country. So theories sprung up of Kyle having stumbled upon gang violence, having been at the wrong place at the wrong time. And thus, the Therese sprouted that maybe he'd come across a drug deal or other criminal activity, and was killed to ensure that he kept silent. Or maybe he was caught in the crossfire of a gang-related altercation. There was no evidence to suggest such a thing, but Kyle having left no trace in the area certainly made everyone involved wonder about the possibilities. Because although he was near train tracks, there was no evidence of an accident either.

With the cab drivers last known location of Kyle in mind, police brought in cadaver dogs to see if they could indicate in the right direction. After being offered Kyle's scent from the jacket that he had been wearing that night, the first cadaver dog immediately traced his scent to Fuel Pizza, confirming what investigators already knew. However, the dogs added a very curious element to the confirmation by pacing around the vicinity of the restaurant, so police wondered if perhaps Kyle had also taken like a circular path around the restaurant a few times, fearing that maybe someone had been following him, or maybe he just couldn't loiter in the pizza place and walked in circles just like not knowing what else to do.

The dogs were then able to trace his path up north Davidson Street and stopped at the border of Cordelia Park. Which matches up with what the taxi driver said. The dogs were then able to trace his path up north Davidson Street and stopped at the border of Cordelia Park, which matches up with what the taxi driver said. Right. So when the dogs were brought back to the park, they went past it and found their dead end at a construction site. The site was a building full of brand new condos and was sporting open dirt trenches at the time as pipes were being laid in the ground.

The handler of one of the cadaver dogs noted the smell of decay and wondered if an animal or potentially a human was buried in that construction site. And the dogs were even allowed access to the site in hopes of finding the source of the smell, but they were unable to do so. When police asked residents in the area about this smell, multiple people complained about it, and said that they had reported what they thought was the scent of, quote, a large dead animal, but that nothing had been done to track down the source. While on their patrol, the dog handler also met a local homeless man who claimed to have

been in Cordelia Park on the night of Kyle's disappearance. And this man claimed that he had actually watched gang members kill Kyle Fleischmann that night, but that he didn't know where they had disposed of the body. Over the course of the next year, three official police searches and many, many more volunteer searches were conducted, but they never turned up any sign of Kyle. And of course, this man's alleged eyewitness account couldn't be proved either, you know, that gang members had killed Kyle. As usual, Kyle's case had drawn comparisons to other cases of this nature in which men

had disappeared after a night of drinking. Statistically, many have ended up in bodies of of water as per the smiley face killer theory, which we covered in episode 240 of Going West. Though Kyle wasn't near any large bodies of water when he disappeared, there is a creek that's the little sugar creek that runs through Cordelia Park. When someone disappears after a night of drinking and is likely not at their most alert, you know, falling into a body of water and drowning by accident always seems like a possibility. But no sign of Kyle ever materialized in any nearby body of water.

And just bringing that up reminds me a lot of all of these deaths that happen in Austin, where, you know, they were finding these young men dead in the ladybird lake, I think it was. Yes. And it's just so reminiscent of that because, you know, after a night of drinking, all of all of these young men, it seemed like they had been out drinking the night before and had sadly fallen in and drowned. It has weirdly happened a lot.

We've covered other cases. What was that? Um, Darwin vest. That happened in Idaho in 1999. They thought that he had fallen into the river. Like it weirdly happens a lot, because like you're saying with the recent case in Austin, Texas, how all these young men were found

dead in the lake as well. It's very bizarre. And also that theory came up with the Jesse Ross case as well. Exactly, there are so many, but it didn't seem like that happened here with Kyle just because this one small body of water, there was just no sign of him. And in a lot of these cases, they usually do surface in the water. So when they don't show up in the water, it's kind of hard to believe that that is the conclusion. But about two years after his disappearance,

Barbara and Dick hired a psychic just hoping that maybe she would lead them in Kyle's direction. And this psychic, whose name was Cathy Hastie, picked up in the vicinity of where the cadaver dogs left off, and said that she could still feel his presence there and that his remains were definitely still in the area. So I know a lot of people are skeptical of psychics, but I'm just bringing this up

because it is a part of the case, you know? Well, yeah, and the family members of the ones that went to seek out her helps. Yeah, because they're like, why not? Like, what do we have to lose? We just need to try everything we possibly can. Sure. And Kathy explained in an interview quote,

when something traumatic or something really powerful happens in an area, an impression is made in the energy that makes up that area, just like if a meteor hits the earth, there's a crater that's made. Kathy believed that everything leading up to Kyle's death was happenstance, but that there was ill intent behind his murder, either anger or maybe revenge, though the exact motive wasn't clear. And his parents actually agree with this and believe that he was simply a victim of circumstance, like maybe somebody driving by spotted what seemed like an easy target for a robbery

and that person or persons killed Kyle and likely dumped his body in the construction site near North Davidson and 16th streets in the No-da neighborhood of North Charlotte. I'm sorry, I really don't want to keep harping on this, but it is just so eerie to me that there are so many male cases that we have covered that are A, an unsolved disappearance, and B, has similar circumstances in which they're out drinking and walk off alone and are just never seen again. This is the same story for Brian Schaeffer, which also includes a weird construction site thing and a bar.

And a bar, yes, and walking alone and being by himself. And then like you said, Jesse Ross and Chance Engelburt and Kevin Nguyen, Clinton Nelson, like the list unfortunately goes on. And then unrelated, I feel like there's another group of male cases that involve going missing while driving at home or driving at night alone. It's just so weird. Like it's weird that there are so many, so many similarities across so many different cases in general, but I feel like we particularly see this with young men. It's very interesting to me that a lot

of these young men cases kind of happened around the same time, like in that early 2000s. Like the early 2000s, kind of late 2000s. It's very strange, like, like 2004 to like 2010, like all these weird things happen. You know, we talk about Bryce Lispisa. We talked about, right, Bryce Lispisa driving alone. Like so many of those.

Right, Jason Landry, for example. Like, it is very strange. Yeah, and I think with Kyle's case, it almost feels like there's a little bit more information. Like there was a guy at the taxi driver who is saying that he saw him. There's this other guy saying that he saw gang kill him. Like there are people that are saying that they saw him.

We do have some surveillance footage. Yeah, we have three different security tapes from different places. Yeah, so it's good that there are a few more clues in Kyle's case than maybe some of the other ones where we have covered. And it's like they literally just vanish off the face of the earth, even though it does feel in a sense that that happened here. But still, I think the construction site angle is really bizarre, like the fact that while they were searching for him

in these early days, there's this huge smell of decay in an area as sketchy. And people are coming forward and saying, hey, it smelled like decomposition, but nobody ever checked on it. Yeah, and I mean, I guess with them sending the cadaver dogs to the site, like I wonder what exactly happened there because obviously we said that they didn't find

anything but how much did they really look and what like what occurred there because that would be so devastating because if these condos were then just built and he is down there when are they gonna find find that out and how well I think that's that's exactly what his father Dick thinks is that those condos were built and they may never be able to find Kyle. Yes, and let's get into that now, actually, because ultimately, this is the conclusion that Kyle's loved ones have reached. So for years after Kyle's disappearance, like we're saying, residents of the apartment complex, a top which he was supposedly buried, complained

of a smell of decay. The source of which was never determined. Dick recalled, quote, there's condos now. We tend to believe he's buried under there. At the time, there was open dirt because they were digging for the pipes. Three years later, a woman contacted the police. She goes, well, I called the police. There was a horrible stench here and I said there's something deceased here.

But frustratingly, even having a target of where he's believed to have been disposed of didn't help locate his remains and his family and friends are still left to wonder. Three years after Kyle's disappearance, Barbara and Dick Fleishman left Charlotte, which was haunted by painful reminders of the unknown. In 2009, so the year before they left, Kyle's family printed an obituary for him in a Charlotte observer, and although they've made their piece in a way with the fact that Kyle is no longer with them, the pain of never knowing what actually happened remains. In a very recent interview with Dick commemorating 16 years since his son's disappearance in 2023, he said, quote, �The thing is, if whatever happened to Kyle in 2007 would happen today in the world of Uber, I think my son would be okay.

He would have had his phone and called for a car with the press of a button. He wouldn't have needed to wander around a bad neighborhood and get lost. He could have just press for an Uber when he walked out a fuel pizza. I no longer believe enclosure. I now believe you just learned to live without it." Kyle Fleischman had brown hair and green eyes. He stood at six feet tall and weighed 180 pounds at the time of his disappearance. He was last seen wearing jeans, a black short sleeve shirt, and black dress shoes. Authorities believe he is no longer alive, and they heavily suspect foul play. This past September, Kyle would have turned 40 years old. If you have any information about the disappearance of Kyle Fleischmann, please call Charlotte Crime Stoppers at 704-334-1600.

Thank you so much everybody for listening to this episode of Going West. Yes, thank you guys so much for listening to this episode, and on Friday we'll have an all new case for you guys to dive into. Again, big thanks to Heather, Shannon, and Kayla for sharing this story with us. This one just stumps me so bad, but I tend to lean towards what his family believes here about what happened to him like I just explained. Yeah, I do too. It feels like the most, sadly the most likely scenario. And unfortunately just a totally freak situation that could have been avoided. But let us know what you guys think.

Please comment on our social media posts and give us your thoughts and theories. We're on Instagram at Going West Podcast, Twitter at Going West Pod, and we're also on Facebook. And obviously, please make sure that you share this episode, because it's very important,

like somebody may know something down the line, you never know, so please, please share. Yeah, there is always a chance of this case and others like it being solved, so thank you in advance if you decide to share this case, and we'll see you in a few days. All right, guys, so for everybody out there in the world, don't be a stranger. 1.5% 1.5% 1.5%

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