Going West: True Crime - Kyron Horman // 28

Episode Date: June 24, 2019

When a 7-year-old boy doesn't show up to class after his Portland Elementary school's science fair in June 2010, police set out on the largest search in Oregon history. But law enforcement quickly set their sights on the last person who saw Kyron that summer morning- his stepmother. This is the disappearance of Kyron Horman. Get 20% off your first Hunt A Killer subscription box by using code GOINGWEST at checkout! huntakiller.com **Going West does not own any news clips presented in this episode** ABC News: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFCLlf0aIUkABC News: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r0BRhmxdr0&t=584s  Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's going on True Crime fans? I'm your host Heath, and I'm your other host Daphne, in your listening to Going West. As always, we like to start off the show giving shout out to the people who gave us five star reviews this week on Apple Podcasts. And wow, we have a lot of reviews. So we're gonna run through them real fast for you guys. Thank you so much to Jimbo from Virginia

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Absolutely. You guys know what it is. This is episode 28 of Going West, so let's get into it. 7-year-old Kyron Hormann goes to school and vanishes, seemingly without a trace, and though police never named her as a suspect, his stepmother has been the subject of sinister accusations. Tonight, she's breaking her silence explaining what she thinks really happened to Kyron. Kyron was last seen on June 4, 2010 at Skyline School when

he was just seven years old. His stepmother Terry orman, the last person to see him. And in the years that have since passed dozens of surgeons have played out most recently in 2017. But so far, no clues, no evidence has turned up. Terry didn't just lose her stepson. She says she lost her life as she knew it. She failed several polygraph tests about the disappearance of Kyron,

her marriage ended. And as part disappearance of Kyron, her marriage ended, and as part of the divorce proceedings, her husband accused her of hiring a hitman to kill him, which she vehemently denies. Then she fled the state of Oregon, she says to get away from harassment. While never officially charged, the suspicion surrounding Terry continues to this day. continues to this day. I never harmed my son. I never wanted to harm my husband. And there is just so much information that is not being told to the public. Kairan Horman was born on September 9, 2002 in Portland, Oregon to his parents, Cain Horman and Desire Young.

They had almost separated prior to Desiree's pregnancy, but when they found out they were going to have a child, they decided to try and make things work. But eight months into Deseret's pregnancy, she and Kane carried through with a divorce due to irreconciable differences, but they agreed to share custody over Kyron once he was born, even though Kyron mostly lived with Deseret for the first few years. But when Kyron was just two years old in 2004, Desiree suffered from kidney failure and had to go to Canada for treatment.

And I read that she had this kidney failure due to a drug that she took, which I guess was an illegal prescription drug, I think, and so she had to leave the country to seek treatment. And Kyron then began living with his dad, who at this time was 36 years old and working as an engineer at Intel in Hillsboro, Oregon, which is just west of Portland. Cain's job demanded a lot of his attention, so he wasn't really able to completely care for a two-year-old on his own. So at this point, Terry, who is actually a woman that Cain was having an affair with while Desiree was pregnant, moved into help, and she brought along her eight-year-old

son from a previous relationship. Terry Moulton was born in March of 1970 in Grass Valley, California and was adopted by two elementary school teachers. When she was 12 years old the family moved to Roseburg, Oregon in a middle-class neighborhood. And in high school she became very involved in track and fitness. In 1991 she was married to a man named Ron Tarver, Jr. and the two moved to Albany, Oregon, where they ran a storage facility before buying a franchise of the restaurant chubbies using tens of thousands of dollars given to them by Terry's parents, but within

a couple years the restaurant tanked. Terry and Ron wanted to have kids, and although they had a pretty tough time getting pregnant, James Logan was born in 1994. Within a year of James' birth, Terry and Ron split up and Terry gained full custody of James. While Terry and James moved into Terry's parents' home in Roseburg, Terry began attending McDonald's fast food management school and started working at McDonald's in her area for a time. And by 1996, she was married to her high school boyfriend and best friend Richard Ecker. she was married to her high school boyfriend and best friend Richard Ecker. Since childhood, Terry pretty much always wanted to be a school teacher and this

was probably very heavily influenced by her teacher parents. So Terry began studying elementary education at Northwest Christian University where she eventually earned her bachelor's degree. So I guess she left the whole McDonald's management thing behind. She then got a basic teaching license and in 2001, Terry, her husband Ron and her son James, bought a house in Aloha, which is a suburb of Portland, and she began working as a substitute teacher in the Hillsboro school district. Terry was a very controlling teacher and she was actually pretty well liked amongst the school for a while. And all the teacher said that she was pretty easy to talk

to and nice, but she kinda quickly turned into a difficult coworker. And this is kinda cause she sort of made her own rules and didn't really consider other people when she made decisions. So a lot of her coworkers kind of resented her for that. Like maybe she was stepping on other people's toes. Definitely.

A year after she moved to the Portland area, Terry and Ron divorced, and Terry was demanding that he pay $550 a month for her son James' child support and this is her son from her first marriage and she's trying to get child support from this man that she was married to in her second marriage. At this point Terry started hitting the gym pretty hard and actually became a bodybuilder and in 2002 she was out to eat at a restaurant with friends and that's when she met Cain Horman and they started their relationship. And again, this is while he is married to Desiree and while she's eight months pregnant with Kyron. Within two months of Terry moving in with Cain, Desiree, so Kyron's mom and Cain's ex-wife, moved back to Oregon from Canada since her kidney treatment had been

completed and she stayed with her parents in Medford, which is a town in southern Oregon. wife, moved back to Oregon from Canada since her kidney treatment had been completed, and she stayed with her parents in Medford, which is a town in southern Oregon that's just under 300 miles or 480 kilometers south of Portland, since she had $30,000 worth of medical bills. Even though she was back in Oregon, Desiree didn't try to regain custody of Kyron, but she did keep a good relationship with him, and she would see him every weekend. Desiree met a man named Tony Young, who was actually a detective for the Medford Police Department, and in 2007, Terri and Kane got married in Hawaii.

So basically at this point, everybody is married and happy. And Terri welcomed a baby girl into the world, Chiara in 2008. The hormones were very happy for the first couple years. They took a lot of family vacations together and had fun nights in. They seemed to be like the ideal American family. Even the neighbors had great things to say about all of them. Terry was involved in Kyron's school life and often volunteered and she also got him placed in an advanced math class and taught him sign language. Just so you guys aren't confused, we have Terry who is Kyron's stepmother and Kane who is Kyron's biological father and then we have

Desiree who is his biological mother and now we have Tony who is Kyron's biological father, and then we have Desiree who is his biological mother, and now we have Tony who is the stepfather on the other side. Friday, June 4, 2010 started out like any other day. At 8 a.m. Terry brought her stepson Kyron, who was seven years old and in second grade, to his school in Portland, which was Skyline Elementary. That morning, there was a science fair at the school that displayed projects from all different grades, and she usually walked him to the bus stop in the mornings, but because of the science fair, she drove him this time.

Before they left the house, Kyron told his dad how excited he was to go to the science fair, and since Kane, his dad, couldn't attend since he had to work, he promised Kyron that he'd take him out for an ice cream cone after school. When Terry and Kyron got to school, they went by Kyron's classroom to drop off his backpack and jack it so he didn't have to carry it around the science fair. Terry and Kyron looked at some exhibits before stopping by the school's library to return some books. Terry stayed at the school with Kyron looked at some exhibits before stopping by the school's library to return some books. Terry stayed at the school with Kyron until 8.45 am when she left to run errands. She later stated that she remembered seeing Kyron walk down the hall to his first class, which was math.

Gina Zimmerman, who is the president of the school's PTA, remembers seeing both Kyron and Terry at the science fair that morning. At 9am, one of Kyron's classmates remembers seeing him near the South entrance of the school. Class began an hour later at 10am, and Kyron's teacher reported him absent since he did not show up to class that morning. There wasn't any cause for alarm initially because days before Terry had informed his teacher that he would be at a doctor's appointment on Friday, but Terry didn't specify which Friday it would be. The way she said it made it seem like it would be this Friday, when it was actually the following Friday, June 11th. At 8.45 a.m., Terry drove the 9-minute drive to a local Fredmeyer grocery store in Hillsborough, Oregon

to get a specific type of medicine for baby Kiara's ear infection. From 9 a.m. to 9.12 a.m., Terry was inside that store. They didn't have the medicine she was looking for, but she ended up getting a Starbucks with the receipt stamped at 9.12am. So she was also seen on surveillance in the store as well. Then Terry travels 20 minutes to another Fredmeier store in the town of Beaverton. Between 9.30am and 10am, a woman named Andrea Leckie, who previously managed a gym Terry frequented, ran into Terry at Fredmeyer. She said they used to occasionally see each other at the gym, but their encounters were never more than brief. So the two really didn't know each other that well. Andrea later stated that when she saw Terry at Fredmeyer, it was the longest conversation they ever had.

Apparently, the two were just passing each other in the store when Terry suddenly struck up a conversation with her. And although Terry was holding her sick two-year-old daughter in her arms, she made a point to show Andrea a photo she took of Kyron earlier that morning, explaining that she had just come from the science fair. This photo is the most widely known photo of Kyron. He's standing next to his school project on the red tree frog and wearing his glasses with a CSI t-shirt.

This was very odd to Andrea because, like we mentioned, the two didn't know each other all that well. So it was strange that Terry seemed to go out of her way to show her that photo of her stepson who Andrea had never met. Andrea admits at the time she didn't think it was too weird. She only thought it was weird later when everything else unfolded, but it's also noted that it wasn't unusual for Terry to show off photos of her kids. And I think it's fair to say that most parents do this.

I feel like everyone I know that has kids is pretty much obsessed with showing everyone photos of them, so in Terry's defense, maybe she was just proud of Kyron and she wanted to show Andrea or something. I don't think that's that weird. I would say that it probably depends on the context, like if they had been talking about Kyron before this, then that would make sense, but if she's just all the sudden like, hey, check out this photo of my stepson. I feel like it's kind of relevant because if it's like, oh, what have you been up to? And she's like, oh, I was just at my son's science fair. Here's a photo of him, how cute with his project. That's totally normal to me. Right, I totally get that. And I would just like to know what the conversation was about and how it went. After this encounter, Terry went over to magic dry cleaners, which is in the same

shopping plaza as Fred Meyer, and she dropped off Kane's dry cleaning. She didn't have baby QR with her when she went inside, so it's assumed that she left her in the car, which Terry said that she parked right out front of the store. The owner of the dry cleaner stated that Terry entered at 10 a.m. and left after just a couple of minutes. Afterwards, Terry made the 7-minute drive to Michael's craft store and arrived at 10-10 a.m. We're not sure how long she was in that store or if she purchased anything though. At 10-39 a.m., so about 40 minutes later, Terry made a phone call, but it has not been released who she was calling. Her phone pinged off the Sovi Island tower.

And Sovi Island is an island that is about 10 miles from downtown Portland, and a lot of people like to settle on the fact that her phone pinged off its tower since it's like a wooded kind of beachy area. But the security cameras on the bridge, leading to the island, didn't catch any footage of Terry's car entering. So it's very unlikely that she even went onto Salvi Island, but instead that she was somewhere in the vicinity of it, and her phone happened to ping off of that tower. So sometime after 1010 AM and until 1140 AM, Terry's time is unaccounted for. She says she was driving around for a while because she wanted to soothe her daughter's earache and

make her go to sleep. Then for the next hour, she was at the gym. Terry checked Kiarra into the daycare at the 24-hour fitness in Beaverton, which is the same town as the Fredmeier and Michael's craft store, and she stayed until 12.20pm. At 12.40pm, she arrived home in Portland according to her story, and then 40 minutes later she was posting photos of the science fair on her Facebook page from her home computer. That day, 1pm was Skyline Elementary's talent show, and Kyron was scheduled to be in it. But none of Kyron's family members attended. Kyron included. At 2pm, Kane gets home from work and notices Terry on the computer, so he fixes himself something

to eat before jumping in the shower. At 3.30pm, Terry, Kane, and Kiarra walked to the bus stop to pick up Kyron, but when the bus arrived, Kyron didn't come off of it. The bus driver told them that Kyron never even got on the bus. That's when they called the school to see what was going on. Skyline Elementary's secretary informed them that Kyron hadn't been at school all day and that he was marked absent. Then, the secretary called 911 at 3.46pm.

It's interesting that the school wasn't concerned of his whereabouts earlier since he had apparently left his backpack and jacket on his classroom desk. And this is very frequently brought up amongst the public when it doesn't seem like we've really gotten an answer on it. Because even if the teacher thought Kyron was out for a doctor's appointment, you'd think the teacher would wonder why his stuff was in the room, right? Yeah, exactly. Why didn't he take his jacket and his backpack with him if he had an appointment? Right, and to me, if I was the teacher and I saw his stuff there, I would assume that he was supposed to be in class and it's like, oh, where is he?

Yeah, it's kind of strange. And a lot of the times when a child has a doctor's appointment or a dentist's appointment or something, it's scheduled and the secretary would know. Like you kind of have to have like write a note, make sure that they know. Well, Terry said that he had an appointment on Friday. And so she didn't say on Friday, June 11th,

which is also kind of strange, she just said on Friday. And so the secretary assumed that she meant Friday, June 4th, when this is all happening, and not Friday, June 11th, which is when it actually was. Right, but what was the teacher in the classroom thinking like maybe he left for a doctor's appointment, but he was coming back to class to get his stuff? Well, that's why it's weird to me that the teacher didn't have any kind of cause for concern and say, why is his stuff here? And I also do think it's really weird that Terry didn't specify the date, and that's kind of incriminating on its own to me, because then there would be that cause of confusion.

Maybe he has a doctor's appointment today, and that's why he's not in class, so we're not going to call home and ask. Right, definitely. But it's pretty obvious they likely did think that he had a doctor's appointment because usually when a kid doesn't show up to school, even I remember this goes into a high school that they would call home and be like, hey, your kid isn't here. You know, they would have done that. So apparently Terry had asked the school secretary if she could call 911, so she could call

around the school and see what the teachers had to say, since Terry was very involved in the school and she probably had a lot of the employees' phone numbers. Terry didn't call Desiree though, Kyron's mom, which was a big red flag for Desiree, who had to find out from the school's secretary after she called 911. Especially since Desiree had planned to meet Terry and Eugene Oregon that day to pick up Kyrin and take him to Medford Oregon that weekend. It seemed like they did this drop off pickup thing a lot in Eugene since it's pretty much in the middle of Portland and Medford, but it's still a two-plus hour drive each way for both parties. Within an hour, police arrived at the Hormann home as well as Skyline Elementary School to gather all the details and figure out a timeline of what exactly

happened that day. Then, they broadcasted to the entire school and all the parents that Kyron was missing. At 7 p.m., the FBI was contacted and by 10 p.m., a search and rescue arrived at the school where they checked all crawl spaces, storage areas, and classrooms to make sure Kyron wasn't somewhere on campus. The police received a tip from a local to check the train tunnel near the school because apparently kids like hanging out there, but Kyrum wasn't there either. What's up going West Gang? I've got a question for you guys. What fascinates you about True Crime?

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friends this is the perfect way to spend a night at home. Heath and I absolutely love this game. We sit at the table, we crack open a bottle of wine, and we work on solving a fake murder, but it's super, super fun. Yeah, and you will lose yourself in this game, definitely. And not only is this game super fun, but Hunt a Killer Donates part of its proceeds from every box to the Cold Case foundation to help fund cold case investigations. Right now you can get 20% off your first box by going to Hunt-a-Killer.com and using promo code GoingWest at checkout. So make sure you go over to Hunt-a-Killer.com and again that's promo code GoingWest to get

20% off your first subscription box. Happy hunting! Hi, we're Eliza, Allison and Karlin, and we're the host of Resolved Mysteries Podcast. Our podcast follows the 80s and 90s television show Unsolved Mysteries hosted by Robert Stack. We have a love for true crime in the Unsolved. If you don't remember Unsolved Mysteries, we forgive you, but you don't have to know to get into our show.

If you like true crime stuff, ghost stuff, alien stuff, or just stories about weird shit like Bigfoot, this is your podcast. The stories we cover range from totally ridiculous to truly heartbreaking. We do detailed research on all of the segments that unsolved mysteries aired, then drink some wine, and give you the latest updates on every case. We talk about stories that will leave you laughing, crying, and occasionally outraged. Resolve Mystery's podcast is available on Apple Podcasts Stitcher or wherever you get your favorite pods. Join us and perhaps you may be able to help solve the mystery! So, over the next week, the media pressed the whole Hormann family with questions, and

none of them would talk to the media at all. This really surprised the public and even the FBI, who included this information in a press statement. Someone in the FBI mentioned that the reason the hormones weren't giving the media any information was because they didn't think it would help find Kyron. But a little over a week after Kyron's disappearance, all four parents, so Desiree and her husband Tony, as well as Kane and his wife Terry, appeared on TV at a press conference, all wearing matching t-shirts displaying the image of Kyron's missing poster.

Tony, remember, is Kyron's stepdad and is also a detective, read a letter to Kyron on TV hoping he was watching. Kane, who is Kyron's biological father, thanked everyone for their hard work and pleaded that if anyone knew anything, to please speak up. So after this press conference conference a lot of people started pointing the finger at Kane. Since Tony wasn't even Kyron's real father yet, he wrote this very sweet and emotional letter to Kyron and read it on national television, whereas Kane only thanked people for their hard work. Many people became suspicious that Kane had

done something to his son. Detectives asked to interview every person who was at the science fair that day when Kyron went missing. In this search for Kyron would become the largest and most expensive search for a missing person in the history of Oregon. There were over 1500 volunteers that did a full search of the area and so many people donated food and water that they actually had to ask people to stop doing so because there was no way that they would get through what they already had. Just a few days after Kyron's disappearance while all these people were out there searching for him, Terry posted on Facebook saying, hitting the gym, and this comment infuriated so many people who were doing everything they could to look for Kyron. So naturally police wanted to be able to rule out those closest to Kyron as suspects. When Terry was interviewed she gave the story and timeline that we

stated earlier and then she was given a polygraph test. I know a lot of people love polygraph tests and others think that they're completely admissible and circumstantial but Terry took three of these tests and she failed two of them. She actually walked out on the third polygraph test. It's important to know that leading up to these polygraph tests, Terry was questioned for hours. Apparently, this tactic can make polygraphs easier to fail. Also, after each question that Terry failed, they stated that she failed and asked her why

she thought that she failed. As far as I'm concerned, this isn't usually the way it's done, and I think that could definitely aid in making someone more nervous to continue the test because they feel discouraged and confused, and Terry thinks that they did this because they targeted her from the beginning and just wanted to pin something on her. She was extremely mad at the results and would openly tell people how upset she was and would tell people that she kept failing and that she didn't understand why. She was also very insistent on taking more polygraph tests to clear her name. Yeah, I think after the third one, you probably just want to give up on that because it doesn't look like you're going to pass that polygraph test. Well, that's why I think it's interesting that she wanted to take more, you know, because also if she is guilty, why would she want to take

polygraph tests? There are a few main reasons why Terry is so heavily looked at in this case. First and foremost, her landscaper Rudy Sanchez came forward when Kyron went missing and told police that in January of that year, so about six months prior to Kyron's disappearance, Terry met with Rudy at a restaurant and asked him to get rid of her husband Cain for $10,000. She apparently asked him to make it look like a mugging because according to Terry, Cain carried around $10,000 cash on him at all times. So she told Rudy his payment would be whatever cash Cain had on him. And if Rudy made it look like a robbery gone wrong, they wouldn't look to the family as suspects and Terry would be in the clear.

Rudy also told police that he and Terry were having an affair. When the police asked Rudy if she used the words get rid of, he said that she didn't use those exact words, but that she implied it. It's very important to note that Terry doesn't speak Spanish and Rudy doesn't speak English fluently. It's kind of hard for me to believe that they would have this conversation in public where there were witnesses and people who could potentially overhear them, especially since there was a language barrier they probably wouldn't have spoken in like the quietest voices. It's unknown if the police ever looked into whatever restaurant Rudy claimed this happened in,

or if they checked the surveillance footage though But I think that would be really interesting to know yeah definitely being able to check the restaurant surveillance video would be a Plus for police because then they could check and make sure that he was actually telling the truth I don't really know why Rudy would make up this story and come to police for any other reason I mean, it's not like he's telling them for financial gain or anything like that. But if this actually is the case and she did hire her landscaper to kill her husband, then this would be potentially very incriminating for Terry in Kyron's disappearance. Before the news broke on this, an undercover cop went with Rudy to the

Hormann house where Terry was home alone. They planned to discuss the murder of Kane and Rudy, who was wearing a wire, described the man with him aka the cop as the hitman. When he brought up the payment of $10,000 for the murder for higher idea, Terry got up and threatened to call the police. Apparently the two men were demanding payment for the murder that they had not committed. It just seems weird to me that Rudy would lie about this. You know, like, why would he go so far to wear a wire and be accompanied by an undercover cop if this wasn't true? Exactly, yeah. I mean, most of the time when somebody just wants fame or they want to be on TV, they'll say something, and that's about as far as it goes. But for him to actually be there with an undercover cop, to wear a wire, to do all these things

and ask for the payment, it kind of seems like Terry might have been trying to kill her husband. Even though the sting didn't go the way that the police had hoped, they still told Kane Hormann that his wife Terry had tried to hire someone for his murder and that they even suspected she was involved in his son Kyron's disappearance. They even told him that they believed his life, along with he and Terry's daughter, Kiarra's life, was in danger and they needed to leave their family home as soon as possible. So with that, Kane packed up some things and took him and Kiara out of the house with police officers present. But Terry was also present and she was begging Kane not to take their daughter away from her. She tried to later contact Kane through every medium possible, so email, text, and phone,

and then she even called police to ask them if what Kane was doing was legal. The police explained that yes, it was legal considering the circumstances. A few days later, Terry was given a restraining order. So up to this point, Cain thought Terry cared as much as he did about finding Kyron and that she was doing everything she could to help find his son. With this new information, Kane and Desiree completely turned on Terry. After this news came out, Kane reported that he did not carry that much cash on him, and if you think about it, it's kind of hard to imagine how someone would do that without a purse or a backpack. That'd be minimum $100, $100 bills. It also really doesn't make that much sense why he would carry around that much money

anyway on any given day. On June 30, 2010, Terry was officially being represented by one of Portland's top criminal defense attorneys, Stephen Howes. After this, Terry came forward with a whole new story regarding her landscaper. This was her story. Terry explained that she hired Rudy months earlier to clean their 5 acre property because Kane had wanted her 15 year old son James to do it and she felt that that was too much work for him given the size of the property and since he was busy with school stuff. So she hired Rudy behind Kane's back from a family owned landscaping company called RS Landscaping. Rudy had only come out to the house on five separate occasions and Terry had paid him

with James' child support that she was getting from her former husband. She would then tell Keynes that James cleaned the yard, so not only is she using child support money to pay for a landscaper, but she's already lying about it. Apparently on Mother's Day in 2010, so just about three weeks prior to Kyron's disappearance, Rudy came to the house to do some work. I'm unclear if he was supposed to work that day or not considering it was a Sunday and Kane likely would have had the day off to spend with the family. Terry states that Rudy came over and that he was wearing Cologne, and she had the sense that he was going to rape her in front of her daughter Chiara. Again, there was an extreme language barrier,

so it's possible that they were flirting with each other, but regardless, nothing ended up happening. So it's just his word against hers on this one. I just think saying that he was wearing Cologne, and then skipping to, I thought he was going to rape me when he didn't, like she's saying that he was wearing cologne and then skipping to I thought he was gonna rape me when he didn't Like she's emits that he didn't do anything, but that he was wearing cologne I just think that's a really extreme place to jump to oh yeah definitely I mean just because a guy is wearing cologne and he's at your house to do yard work does not mean that he has any sort of sexual Intentions right and I think it's interesting that she comes out with this story after she gets a great lawyer, and after he says that she wanted her husband dead, I'm not sure if this

is true. It's almost like kind of deflecting, like she's trying to kind of cover up what she potentially did by hiring him to kill her husband. Especially because a rape didn't occur. And of course, I'm not victim blaming at all. I'm just saying that nothing did happen, so I don't think it's really fair. For her to have jumped to that conclusion necessarily

when nothing of the sort even happened. Yeah, yeah, that's very extreme. And I think that she kind of used that to her advantage. It's definitely possible that he was flirting, but you know, then say, oh, I thought he was going to make a pass at me. Not, I thought he was going to rape me. So Terry started texting a man named Michael Cook, who apparently she hadn't really known before Kyron went missing.

Michael Cook is Cain Hormann's friend from high school. Terry and Michael started talking when he showed up to help search for Kyron when he went missing, and this was actually the first time that they met. It's unknown why they started texting, especially because they got into a very lengthy conversation just a couple days after Cain filed a restraining order against Terry. This text conversation can be found on the internet, but we're not going to go too much into it because it's extremely sexually graphic. They begin just having a seemingly normal conversation when Terry starts talking about how guys don't want

her because she can bench press them. And remember, Terry was a bodybuilder and she goes on to say that she can bench press 195195. Terry is very clearly trying to turn the conversation sexual as she talks about wrestling with Michael then starts talking about cooking together. So it kind of seems like she wants to go in a date with him, kind of hang out, and he then asks her about her new lawyer and she tells him that her lawyer cost $350,000. Then she says, I take it you're attracted to me, before saying,

I didn't want to ravish your anything, insert evil grin with latex. Whoops, said that out loud. Now, we're not gonna read the rest because, like I said, it's very, very sexually explicit. And I'm not trying to bash her shame anyone for sexting, but the reason people are so upset and shocked by this conversation is because it was right after her husband and daughter left her, and just three

weeks after her stepson went missing. To a lot of the public, this further made them believe that she was involved in Kyron's disappearance because she just kind of seemed to be living her life and not focusing on Kairan. When Kane heard about these texts, he stated that Terry was severely emotionally disturbed. And if you guys are wondering about this text conversation between her and Michael Cook, she definitely is the aggressor. I mean, she is pushing Michael Cook to get into a sexual explicit conversation with her. She's the first one to start talking about it. Come on, your stepson's been missing and the first thing that's on your mind is meeting

a guy which you met at a search party for your missing stepson. So obviously that's going to look really bad. And like Daphne said, there's nothing wrong with sexting or anything like that. It's just that this is a very, it's just bad timing. This is obviously a very private conversation and part of me hates that we're even bringing it up. But whether or not Terry was involved in Kyron's disappearance, I still think it's really messed up that this is blasted on the internet for everyone to see, but we thought it could potentially be relevant to talk about, which is why we're bringing it up at all. So going back to the Murder for Higher plot, when the news came out on Terry's potential

Murder for Higher situation, the media went nuts. Terry was being dogged by reporters and pretty much all of her friends stayed clear of her. The only person who didn't turn on Terry was her gym friend, Dee Dee Spicer, who came to stay at Terry's house while this was all happening. They really weren't even that close, so it's interesting that Dee Dee came to her rescue like this because, although they'd known each other for about five years from the gym, they didn't know each other all that well. One other friend came to visit Terry, but her name has not been released to the public.

In late July, Dee Dee and this unnamed friend bought burner phones since investigators had been spying on everything the three of them were discussing on their real phones. Dee Dee's burner phone, which is typically just a phone that you can buy at Walmart and you can add minutes to it, it's pretty much just like a disposable phone almost. Was activated under her real name while Terry and the unnamed friends were activated under fake names. When the police somehow found out about these other phones, they tapped into those two. This definitely made the trio look very suspicious, but the unnamed friend apparently had an airtight

alibi so there was no way she was present or likely involved in Kyron's disappearance. On the other hand, Dee Dee's alibi wasn't so great. Dee Dee stated that on the morning Kyron disappeared, she was volunteering on a property which was near the Hormon home, where she did some landscaping for a party that was the following day. That day, Dee Dee's employer had invited her to lunch, and when investigators questioned her employer about this, they stated that she had been an hour late. They tried to call her during lunch to see where she was, but she didn't answer her phone.

Dee Dee said that she had been working on the 48-year property and that her phone was in her car. Her employer also stated that Dee Dee wasn't volunteering at all, but instead, she was getting paid to do that work, and had been doing it for over a month. When investigators questioned her about why she lied, she got a lawyer. One thing we want to mention is that Dee Dee and Terry did not communicate by phone at all the day that Kyron went missing. Earlier we mentioned that Terry had gotten a call call or that she dialed out to someone, but that we didn't know who it was from, but we do know that this call was not too

nor from Dee Dee Spicer. Ever since the media and police started pointing to Terry potentially being involved in Kyron's disappearance, Desiree and Kane, so Kyron's biological parents, completely went against Terry, and to this day, Desiree publicly talks about how she looks forward to the day that Terry is caught and that she knows it will happen because she's guilty. In 2012, Desiree filed a civil suit against Terry Horman for $10 million asking for Kyron's remains. In 2012, Kane was rewarded custody of Kiara, and Terry was allowed

visits, but they were heavily supervised. Terry also didn't have her son James in her life because he had gone to live with his grandparents in Roseburg after he'd gotten into multiple fights with Kane and Terry, and this was before Kyron went missing. In 2016, Terry was arrested for driving a stolen vehicle. Although Terry was never an official suspect, nor arrested for the abduction or potential murder of Kyron, she has been suspected of being involved. It's important to note that no one has been arrested for Kyron's abduction, and there have been no real suspects in this case. In an article published by the Oregonian, Desiree Young announced that authorities have narrowed

the search for Kyron Hormon to less than 100 acres and are still seeking answers on what caused him to vanish. And this was just an update on June 4th, 2019, the 9-year anniversary of the disappearance of Kyron Hormann. Desire Young is also working with a best-selling author on a book about Kyron called Love You Forever, the search for Kyron Hormann, which will be released in a few months, so keep an eye out for that. So let's go back to Terry and talk about some potential motive for her. There is a theory that she hated Kyron, and that theory is mostly based upon these emails that supposedly Terry tells someone

that she wanted to hurt Kyron. So these emails were briefly discussed in an interview with Kane and ABC News, and the reporter asked Kane if he has seen the emails where Terry talks about wanting to hurt Kyron, and Kane said that he has seen them. But these emails have never been released to the public and were not aware exactly what the emails entailed or when they were sent. There are other emails that have surfaced where Terry expresses anger towards raising Kyron because it costs her a lot of money, etc.

Terry was pretty much Kyron's mom because Desiree was definitely not as involved with Kyron as Terry was. Terry got Kyron ready for school, she did the school drop-off and helped him with homework, she took him to doctor's appointments, and pretty much everything else. So it seems like these emails might be more aggressive towards Desiree for not raising her own child and not towards Kyron. But Desiree stated in a 2013 interview with Dr. Phil that Kyron would cry whenever he would have to go back to Kane and Terry's house when he was doing the weekend visits with her, and that he would tell her that he didn't want to go back to their house.

This may Desiree believe that something was wrong at the house, but during this interview, it can't explain to Desiree that Kyron did that exact same thing when he was leaving their house to go to Desirees. And this seems totally normal, you know, Kyron's a young boy whose parents are split up and he's constantly going back and forth to different houses, so that has to be very confusing for him. So I'm kinda curious why Desiree didn't have custody of Kyron. Well, I read that because of the illness that she had and even though she had gotten treatment

in Canada when she came back, she still wasn't quite up to par to raise a child, and so it's kind of like in Kyron's best interest to be raised by his father. Right, so he was basically better off in Kane's care. Right, and I think she was comfortable with the fact that she still saw him on the weekends, but like I said, she wasn't doing very well, so didn't feel like she could probably really raise a kid. So I kind of want to talk about some questions I have regarding Terry if she is in fact guilty, some things that kind of don't really add up for me. So looking at her timeline, the only time I think she really could have murdered slash hidden a body was between about 10,

20 AM after she left Michaels. But again, it's unclear how long she was there. That's just kind of a guess that everyone's made. To 11, 40 AM when she got to the gym. So it seems odd that she would run all those errands and then kill Kyron because she was lasting at the school around 8.45 am and then got to Fredmeyer at 9am. It was about a 15 minute drive, so that was not enough time for her to kill Kyron, right?

So she would have had to have waited until she went to both Fredmeyer's and dry cleaning and Michaels to then kill Kyron. And even if she had this hour unaccounted for where she states that she's aimlessly driving to get her daughter to fall asleep, it still doesn't seem like it's enough time to do something so awful. And then for her to go to the gym right after, it just seems strange to me. Also her daughter was in the car, so even if she was only two at the time, it just seemed strange to me. Also, her daughter was in the car, so even if she was only two at the time, it just doesn't seem like she would kill Kyron while her sick daughter is there. And I also think it's interesting that she wanted to do more polygraph tests.

I did mention this earlier, but I think if she were guilty, she would probably want to be as far away from detectives as possible. Putting herself in a position where she could incriminate herself even further doesn't seem like a very good idea. Yeah, absolutely. And those are all good reasons why she could potentially not be involved in Karen's disappearance. But let's flip the coin and talk about why she could possibly have been involved in Karen's disappearance. First, let's talk about the fact that she was willing

to kill her husband. If she was capable of hiring someone to kill her husband, I think it could be possible that she could have hired someone to kill Kyron, or she could have killed Kyron herself. Absolutely. And again, that's a hard one because we don't know if that is factual. We don't know if that actually happened.

It's very possible. It did, it's also very possible, it didn't happen, but obviously if that's true, then I think she probably killed Kyron, or had something to do with it. Absolutely, and let's also talk about the fact that her phone pinged off of the cell tower at Savi Island. So, again, her truck was not seen on the footage going to Savi Island Island and as we know, cell tower radius isn't the most

accurate. And I remember watching an interview with her where they asked her that question and she said she was on I forget what freeway it is, but she was on a freeway that was parallel to Sovy Island. She said I was driving on that freeway trying to get my daughter to fall asleep. So that's probably why it pinged off that tower. So there's also that possibility Right. Yeah, definitely. It also seems kind of strange to me though that she would just be driving around to get her daughter to fall asleep I don't know if that's something that regular people do. I think it is if it is I'm not I'm not aware of it

But regardless if in fact she was driving on that road parallel to Sovy Island, it's possible that she could have been somewhere somewhere else I mean just because they didn't catch her truck on the camera going over the bridge doesn't mean that she wasn't in that area Or somewhere close to there. I mean there's probably multiple places where you could pull in and and drive to a certain place that Has nothing to do with that bridge. Right, and as we know, because we live in Oregon, the Pacific Northwest has lots of forest and wooded areas, so hiding a body it doesn't have to be on Savi Island, even though that's a very woodland area. But I mean, I definitely think it's possible that she did this.

I think there's a lot of really strange things pointing to her and just a lot of weird shit. But there's also a lot of questions and I just wish we knew more. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of questions. And I think another thing we can also talk about is the fact that she was arrested for stealing a car. I mean, I know that's not that big of a deal,

but that also kind of shows you the type of character that she has. I mean, I definitely think she's nutty. There's no denying it. Yeah, absolutely. But, is she capable of murder? We don't really know. So, as we've been looking into Terry quite a bit, I'm sure you guys have been wondering, well, what about Kane Horman? So, let's talk about him for a minute. So, Desiree had been in her town of Medford the day of Kyron's disappearance, which, like we said it earlier, was about four hours drive away from Portland.

She had planned to meet Terry in Eugene later that day to pick up Kyron, but that wouldn't have been till the late afternoon. There isn't much talk at all about Kane Hormons' alibi that day, because it's known that he worked throughout the week. We know that he left the house at 7.45 am that morning, so not long before Kyron and Terry left for the science fair, and Kane returned home at 2pm that day. Kane said he was at work between that time, but confirmation has not been released by police. Kane's Mustang was never checked for forensics either.

Two days after Cain's disappearance, Cain sent his coworkers an email and told them not to talk to the media. He didn't ask them to help search for Cain and he apparently didn't help search for Cain himself because he didn't want to get lost, which is very strange considering, I mean, you would imagine any parent whose child disappeared

would be out day and night looking for them no matter what. Kane has never been named a suspect in this case, likely because of the focus on Terry, but he has technically not been ruled out either as far as we know. I really wish we knew what time Kane usually got out of work because arriving home at 2pm seems pretty early. He wasn't coming home for lunch, which we know because he was still at home at 3.30 when he walked to the bus stop with Terry and baby Kiara. It just seems like a very short day to work, just about from 8am to 2pm. Right, I also wish that we knew if that was his normal work day, but again, there was

just very little information regarding his alibi. And I think that's pretty strange. There's also a possibility that whoever abducted Kyron may not have known Kyron. It could have been a stranger. That kind of thing happens all the time. And even though most of the workers at that school had been questioned, it's very possible that it could have been an outsider somebody visiting the science fair that day Absolutely, there was so much chaos that day that it probably would have been fairly easy to

abduct a child in that situation because there was just so many people and I think one issue in this case Of course, we don't know whether or not it was Terry So maybe they looked into her for good reason, of course we don't know whether or not it was Terry, so maybe they looked into her for good reason, but if it wasn't Terry, they really dropped the ball because they just narrowed in on this one person and didn't really think of any other possibilities, and like you said, it absolutely could have been a stranger. And of course, I'm sure investigators thought of that possibility, and this was probably very difficult because there was basically nothing to go off of here. Right, I think sometimes investigators get narrow-sighted and they're just looking into one

thing and they can't really, they get tunnel vision, you know, like they just see one thing and they go straight towards that and that happens a lot in other cases and I know that obviously investigators are trying to solve this case so they're looking at the most likely suspect which would have been Terry because she was the last one with Kyron but we also have to look at other possibilities. If you have any information regarding the disappearance of Kyron Hormon please call the Multinoma County Sheriff's Office tip line at 503-988-0560. Let's help bring Kyron Hormann home. Thank you everybody for listening to this episode of Going West. Yes, thank you so much everybody.

Thanks for listening to episode 28 and next week we'll have an all-new case for you guys to dive into. If you just can't get enough of going west, check out our Patreon for some bonus episodes. Just five bucks a month, it really helps out the show. And we also donate some proceeds to the National Center for Missing and Exploded Children. So check that out, patreon.com slash going west podcast. And don't forget to go over to Instagram and give us a follow at going west podcast and give us a follow over on Twitter as well at going west pod. If you guys want some merch we have some cool going west key fobs in our store on our website going west podcast.com check it out and get yours today. And if you enjoy listening to Going West make sure you tell a friend.

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