Going West: True Crime - Robert Wone // 204

Episode Date: May 28, 2022

In August of 2006, an attorney in Washington DC was murdered after spending the night at a friend’s house while multiple other people were in the house. After his death, they were adamant that an intruder must have entered the home. But, as details came out about the evening and the scene of the crime, they painted an incredibly bizarre scene. This is the story of Robert Wone. BONUS EPISODES patreon.com/goingwestpodcast CASE SOURCES 1. Find A Grave: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/20795466/robert-e-wone 2. Asian American Legal Focus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8Jy4pp43tg 3. Asian American Legal Focus, part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=JrFxchxBYDc 4. NY Times Wedding Announcement: https://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/08/style/weddings-celebrations-katherine-yu-robert-wone.html 5. Affidavit: https://legaltimes.typepad.com/files/ward_affidavit.pdf 6. The Tribune: https://www.newspapers.com/image/360856201/?terms=robert%20wone&match=1 7. Washingtonian: https://www.washingtonian.com/2010/04/20/robert-wone-life-death-and-love/ 8. Blog: https://whomurderedrobertwone.wordpress.com/ 9. Washington Blade: https://www.washingtonblade.com/2016/08/19/wone-case-defendants-now/#:~:text=Price%20and%20Victor%20J.,at%20various%20times%20since%202008. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What is going on True Crime fans? I'm your host Teezy. And I'm your host Daphne. And you're listening to Going West. Today's case is honestly one of the craziest and creepiest cases I've ever heard in my life. Like I feel like I could talk about this story forever. It's so tragic and unsettling and odd and just mind blowing. And so many of you have recommended this case over the years. So we can't name names but appreciate you all for sending this one in.

It's been on our minds for a while. Yeah, definitely. The investigation of this case is particularly interesting because so many people involved were lawyers, which ultimately hindered its outcome. But the victim was such an asset to the law community, and just an incredible person all around, so we can't wait to hear what you guys think about what happened in this case. Yeah, this is another one of those that has been more heavily covered, and that's why we have waited so long but Actually being able to dive into it finally has just been such a ride Absolutely so without further ado guys. Let's just get right into today's episode. Let's do it

Let's do it. This is episode 204 of going west, so let's get into it. In August of 2006, an attorney in Washington, D.C. was murdered after spending the night at a friend's house while multiple other people were home. After his murder, they were adamant that an intruder must have entered the home. But as details came out about the evening and the scene of the crime, they painted an incredibly bizarre picture.

This is the story of Robert Wann. Robert Eric Wann was born on June 1,, to parents Amy and William Wann in Brooklyn, New York, where he was raised alongside his younger brother, Andrew. Robert's mother Amy was a school librarian, and his father was an information technology executive at Chase Bank. The family lived in Sheepshead Bay, which is a pocket of Southern Brooklyn on the Atlantic

Ocean. So, let's kind of talk about Robert here. Robert was intelligent, hardworking, and kind. He was a Metz fan and played on his church's baseball team, and as a teenager, Robert was motivated and ambitious. And we'll tell you why right now, because there are a ton of examples. He attended Zavarian High School, a private all-boys Catholic college prep school in the Bay Ridge neighborhood of Brooklyn, and

Robert was always very proud of his Chinese heritage. And in fact, when he was in high school, he wrote an essay about the experience of being Asian American, and it was printed by the organization of Chinese Americans Long Island chapter, who then also supported his participation in the Presidential Classroom program in Washington DC. After high school, Robert applied and was accepted to William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia, one of the oldest universities in the country, second only to Harvard, and where Thomas Jefferson attended college,

just a little fun fact there. Robert was awarded the prestigious Monroe Scholarship, offered to fewer than 10% of William and Mary attendees. He was also named a President's Aid, which is a small group of students responsible for keeping administration updated on campus life. Such a smart guy. Yeah, there was a lot going on there.

Sorry, that was kind of a mouthful. I know. But his background is very complex and very impressive in that way, but we do want to talk about it. So we're going to keep going into it just because it's important to paint who Robert was as a person. Absolutely, yeah. So Roberts College friends described him as humble and loyal.

A close friend of his from school named Tara claimed later in an interview that he used to put change in expired parking meters around campus, which is like just so nice. So nice. And also that he once rounded up some friends to scrub off a statue that had been covered in bird droppings. And when the school's landscaping funds ran out, Robert bought sod and laid it down himself. That's like above and beyond. Way above and beyond. He was also a member of the 13 club,

which is a secret society whose members perform random acts of kindness and generosity. So you can kind of get the picture that Robert is just an overall great person. And while at college, he met Joseph Price, or Joe, who was a fellow law student, and although Joe was three years ahead of Robert, they became close and wound up in the same friend group that would last well into their thirties. Joe even gave Robert and his parents the campus tour of William & Mary, and afterwards, Joe

Price attended law school at the Ivy League University of Pennsylvania ranked the 6 best law school in the nation. After graduating, Robert started working for Covington and Burling, which was rated the top law firm in Washington DC by Vault.com. He also had a number of commitments and passion projects on the side that also kept him very busy, including volunteering as council for the Museum of Chinese in America and the organization of Chinese Americans, as well as being a member of the Asian Pacific Bar Association. So yeah, Robert was beyond incredible, just a total diamond in the rough with his brains and his kindness. So in January of 2002, Robert met Catherine

Ellen Yu, who went by Kathy at a bar association conference in Philadelphia. Also in attorney, Kathy attended the University of Illinois before getting her law degree from St. Louis University. A little bit about Kathy. Her parents and brother immigrated to the United States from Korea in the 1970s, while Kathy's mother was pregnant with her. She grew up in Vernon Hills, Illinois, a suburb of Chicago, where her father worked as a dental laboratory technician, and her mother was a registered nurse at a nursing home. When Kathy met Robert, she was working for the Bar Association and living in Chicago, and she claims that she saw Robert from across the room at the conference, reminiscing that he stood out for his good looks and nice voice. He asked her out, and

they had dinner together before he flew back to DC. So right after they met, they already started dating. Yeah. A few weeks later, she happened to be traveling to DC. So right after they met, they already started dating. Yeah. A few weeks later, she happened to be traveling to DC for work and it also happened to be Valentine's Day. So they exchanged small gifts and Robert wrote her a note that said, where to from here? I'm not certain, but I'm excited to find out if you are.

That's so sweet. Love Robert. God, he's such a good guy. I know. For a while, the young couple a good guy. I know. For a while, the young couple did long distance. They talked on the phone every night at 8 p.m. and flew back and forth up to three times a month.

It was clear to Kathy from the start that Robert was a model boyfriend. Kathy said, quote, from day one, I never opened a door when I was with him. Eventually Robert asked if she would like to join him and his family on a month-long trip to China, and when she accepted, he started kind of dropping hints about a proposal and wondering what their wedding and married life would be like. But after their time abroad, Robert came back with Kathy to Chicago and had not yet proposed. But while he got the bags from the cab and paid the fare, Kathy headed upstairs to her apartment, opening the door to find a trail of rose petals, leading to a display of bouquets of roses alongside

a Tiffany engagement ring and a silver fortune cookie whose message said, will you marry me?" Robert and Kathy married at the Windham Hotel in Ithasca, Illinois on June 7, 2003, and a judge from whom Robert had been a law clerk for was their officiant. So that's kind of nice. And many of Robert's law school friends, including Joe Price and his partner Victor Zaborski were in attendance, so it was an absolutely wonderful evening. After the wedding, Kathy relocated to Arlington County, Virginia, across the Potomac River from the District of Columbia, where Robert was living at this time, and she started working

for a healthcare company. So they weren't living together quite yet. But the following year in 2004, they bought their first home, a townhouse in Okten, Virginia, about a 40-minute train ride from Robert's office. Both had thriving careers in active social lives and were members of their local church, Grace Community Church in Arlington. That was also the year that Robert turned 30, and Robert and Kathy were talking about starting a family, but since Kathy was unfortunately diagnosed with alupus when she was in high school, which is an inflammatory disease that can affect

your joints, skin, brain, heart, and much more, and doctors told her it may be difficult for her to conceive, they were looking into adopting a daughter from China. Robert's 30th birthday celebration was held that June at his college friend Joe's house, who lived in the Capitol Hill neighborhood of Washington, D.C. because Joe and Robert had remained close since their days together at William & Mary. Joe wasn't outspoken advocate for gay rights, and in law school at the University of Virginia, he was actually the president of the gay and lesbian alumni association. In 1998, he started working for Arant Fox, which is a law firm in Washington, D.C., and

by 2006, he was made partner. Like Robert, Joe had many projects on the side to further the causes that were important to him. Joe Price eventually even co-founded Equality Virginia, a non-profit that advocates for LGBTQ plus individuals. Joe and his partner Victor had been together a few years by this point and lived in a townhouse in Capitol Hill as we mentioned. Joe reveled in hosting, so they loved having people over for any occasion, and he was a pillar in the gay community. In the early 2000s, Joe and Victor were joined by a housemate named Dylan Ward, who was welcomed into the friend group and their home,

and would eventually become a part of Joe and Victor's relationship. But we're gonna get into that. But all three of them were in attendance at Robert's 30th birthday party. And this is relevant. You're probably like, why are we hearing about these friends? It is relevant. Yeah, we're going to get there. So two years later, two years after his 30th birthday party in the early summer of 2006, Robert took a job as general counsel to radio free Asia, a US-based nonprofit for news broadcasts to Asian countries,

specifically those with government-limited news resources like China and North Korea. While this came at the cost of a significant pay cut for Robert, Kathy remembers telling him, quote, "'I don't need to drive Alexis. I'm happy with our Honda.'" His causes were extremely important to him because although Covington and Burling was a prestigious firm, Robert had taken the position there

because they offered pro bono work. He had just been elected president of the Asian Pacific American Bar Association and his inauguration was set for mid August. On Wednesday, August 2, 2006, Robert had dinner with a colleague. Still new at Radio Free Asia, he wanted to meet the radio host who worked the overnight shift. So instead of heading home to Oakden late afterwards, and then, you know, having to come back to his office early in the

morning, he just opted to stay with his friends in the city. More specifically, or more specifically, his old friend Joe, Joe's partner Victor and their roommate Dylan. At 9.30pm, Robert called Kathy to say goodnight and tell her that he loved her. He was heading back to his office to meet the host, and then to crash at his friend's place. Joe, Victor, and Dylan had moved into a new house since the birthday party a couple years prior and into another townhouse, but this time in the Dupont Circle neighborhood, just about

four miles or six kilometers from their old place. The year prior, Joe and Victor had purchased 1509 Swan Street Northwest for almost $1.3 million, and it's now valued at $2.5 million in case anybody's curious. It's a stunning Victoria-era row house built circa 1886, and it boasts four bedrooms, three and a half baths, and over 3,000 square feet. It's also situated in a pocket of chic coffee shops, boutiques, restaurants, and bars. After meeting the radio jockeys, Robert headed to Joe, Victor, and Dylan's house to meet his friends and crash for the night, arriving at around 10.30 pm.

The house was only one mile away or 1.6 kilometers from the Radio Free Asia office on M Streets, also in the Dupont Circle neighborhood. So he was very close. It really makes sense that he was staying there. But also for those curious what Dupont Circle is like, Neither of us, Ethan, I have been there, but niche.com gives it an overall rating of an A plus, mostly as far as it goes for good for families, nightlife, and diversity, but it does have a C plus in crime and safety. But it did seem like where their particular house was. It seemed like it was a nice area, so not

not a lot of crime, but it's also not like the safest place in America. I mean, you are still in the city. Yes. So this is where things take a dramatic turn for this circle of friends, particularly Robert. Just two hours after Robert had arrived at Joe, Victor, and Dylan's home,

Joe Price called Robert's wife Kathy to tell her that Robert had arrived at Joe, Victor, and Dylan's home. Joe Price called Robert's wife Kathy to tell her that Robert had been stabbed and was being rushed to the hospital. Kathy then called Robert's parents, William and Amy, who had moved down to Northern Virginia from New York to be closer to Robert and Kathy. All three of them raced to the George Washington University Hospital and the Foggy Bottom

neighborhood, but it was too late. Robert died from his injuries at 12.24 a.m. on Thursday, August 3, 2006. All three men who were in the home at the time Joe Price, Victor Zoborski, and Dylan Ward maintained that they had nothing to do with what had happened to Robert, that it was a senseless act of random violence from some random intruder. Police launched a full-scale investigation as Kathy, Robert's family, and his huge network of friends and colleagues mourned and tried to make peace with the fact that this prominent member of the DC community and beloved philanthropist with so many worthwhile causes was gone.

By that afternoon, Kathy was surrounded by supporters in her oakton home, many of whom were Robert's friends in the same circle of William and Mary alumni as Joe. Friends and family came from all over to pay their respects. The Wands held the service for Robert at Columbia Baptist Church and nearby Falls Church, Virginia, and more than a dozen people close to him gave their eulogies. And Joe Price was a pallbear. At a wake hosted at the house of a friend's later that day,

Robert's college friend Tara asked another friend of his quote, how did the intruder get into Joe's house? To which the friend responded by looking at her like she was crazy and saying, oh, there was no intruder. We're about to dive into what happened in the 79 minutes between when Robert arrived at Joe Victor and Dylan's house at 10.30pm and when Victor placed the call to 9.11 at 11.49pm. At 10.30pm, when Robert arrived at their house, Joe and Dylan told police they welcomed him in and that the three sat around the kitchen for a few minutes drinking water and talking. At this time, Victor was upstairs and he and Joe's bedroom watching project runway. Joe and Dylan showed Robert to their guest room

on the second floor, equipped with a fold-out couch that had been made up for him already. Dylan claims he then retired to his room and took a sleeping pill, and that as he was falling asleep, he could hear Robert taking a shower. Joe claims he had gone upstairs to join Victor in their bedroom on the third floor, and that the two had gone to bed. Between 11 p.m., when the men last claimed to have seen Robert and 1149 p.m., when the police were called, Joe said he heard the security system chime

that the back door had been opened. Victor claims that he heard a soft scream or groan come from Robert's room after this. Checking on him, they found him unconscious with stab wounds to his chest and called 9-1-1. The operator claims that Victor was gasping for breath and that she actually mistook him for a woman at first, addressing him as maim. According to the combined accounts of the three residents, someone had stabbed Robert and fled the house. But when the ambulance arrived five minutes and 40 seconds

after the 911 call was made, emergency medical services found a very unusual crime scene, especially for what was supposed to be a forced entry and a subsequent fatal stabbing. Responding EMS worker Jeffrey Baker claimed the scene made the hair on the back of his neck stand up. It looked as if the crime scene had been staged, with all evidence scrubbed from the area. Robert was found lying face-up on the still-made bed with very little blood surrounding him,

only just a few drops. With three stab wounds, this seems very inconsistent. Robert looked as if he and the bed beneath him had been cleaned, the sheets changed and the bed redressed, with Robert then propped back up on the bed. The other responding paramedic claimed that something about the setting felt very wrong. Curiously, the men apparently had all showered off, all of them clean with wet hair, with Victor and Dylan in robes when the police arrived, and Joe just in his underwear.

And this is very weird because remember, their stories are that Dylan took a sleeping pill as he heard Robert taking a shower, and Joe and Victor going to bed themselves on the third floor, meaning none of the three of them had apparently taken showers, yet they all appeared to have done so. Yeah, so a little suspicious here.

Like right off the bat. The medics performed an EKG or an electrocardiogram on Robert, and he was flat lining. He was rushed to the hospital while the men stayed behind to answer questions. Now Officer Diane Durham arrived at the house and, referring to Joe as, Underwear Guy, told him to put on some clothes. And this was the only time that any of the men were questioned and their story actually changed. Joe claimed that they had heard a scream and ran downstairs to see what had happened.

He claimed that Robert had been standing by the patio door bleeding on the first floor, and that the three men took him upstairs to the second floor to lay him down on the bed. And this is already complicated because they had originally said that when they found Robert, he was laying down unconscious. So and now they're saying he's standing at the door with stab wounds when they find him. Yeah, so it's not very consistent. Not at all.

So all three men were brought in for questioning and separated to get their stories straight. Jill then added that they may have been drinking wine. And remember, before this, he had said they were just drinking water and hung out for like 30 minutes in the kitchen. But other than that, their reports were pretty consistent with each others. That none of them were involved and that the only thing that any of them heard was the

backdoor chime and some low-growning before they discovered Robert and called for help. The captain of the DC police told reporters the next day that he didn't believe much of what had been regurgitated to him about the night's events. But shortly after they were questioned, all three men had lawyers, and with Joe's money and connections, they were all covered because, remember, Joe is a lawyer. The day after Robert's murder, police began obtaining search warrants for the house. Forensic experts swept the house for evidence, including pieces of the staircases and the walls, they believed may contain DNA, and they also searched the residence's computers and phones.

Okay, so thus far, this is so unsettling and strange. So if Robert wasn't stabbed in bed, the fact of there being so little blood on his bed other than a few drops could make sense, but still, in the 5 plus minutes at least that it took police to arrive, he probably would have left a lot more blood behind anyway just knowing that he had multiple open wounds. So that doesn't make sense. And then you have to wonder how long it took them to actually call the police. Did they have time to shower and clean anything up?

It's also very weird to think that they kept the back door unlocked if that is what happened. And that some random person opened it, walked directly into Robert's room on the second floor, stabbed him and left. Like, not saying that couldn't happen technically, but why would that happen? Yeah, and honestly, the more we get into these details,

the more all of this just sounds so wrong and suspicious. Yes, but also with the door unlocked thing, if it was unlocked, you know, that's also weird like aren't you concerned if you hear the door chime like wait my back door is unlocked. Yeah. Or if it was locked and somebody had broken in, there wasn't any sign of somebody breaking in. Yeah, and then you're thinking well if the back door did chime and then this person killed Robert and then left, wouldn't the back door chime yet again for a second time or did this killer magically leave out a window.

So true, but there's only one report of a them hearing the door chime and it was the first time exactly. There's no second door chime. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. So that same day back at Robert and Kathy's house in Okten, Joe, Victor, and Dylan paid Kathy a visit, wanting to clear up any questions she had about her husband's tragic death. She says that she was afraid to find out the details, but also couldn't bear to be left in the dark.

The three of them told her exactly what they had told detectives, that they had a glass of water together and then had gone to sleep, heard grunting in the door chime, but that they had no idea how this could have happened to her husband. A detective met with her the next day, probing her about she and Robert's conversation, and what Joe had said in his phone called to her, explaining that Robert had been stabbed. Another friend of Roberts from school named Jason, who was also an attorney, had offered to sit in with Kathy as she spoke to the detective. That Sunday night, as Jason was preparing his eulogy for Robert's funeral on Tuesday,

Joe called him, stating that his lawyers wanted to know what was discussed in Jason's meeting with Kathy and the detective. So obviously that sounds weird. Like, hey, what did you guys talk about? So of course, Jason was instantly suspicious, especially being an attorney himself. This request just didn't really make any sense. Yeah, it's like, why do you want to know what they said?

Is it because you're worried that they're incriminating you? Yeah, right? So another lawyer friend of theirs suggested that Jason help Kathy find her own attorney because the case seemed to be only getting messier. Jason contacted Robert's former boss at Covington and Burling who started making calls immediately, eventually securing Eric Holder, a prominent attorney who had been appointed to DC's Superior Court by President Ronald Reagan in the 1980s. He offered his services to her for free, which is really incredible, so it really seemed

like everyone was willing to help when they knew it was for Robert and they cared about him and Kathy just so much. So going back to the funeral, the detective who questioned the men the night of the murder attended the funeral, just keeping an eye on them because remember they were there. And that's where some people were gossiping about this whole thing being a cover-up. However, the men hid behind their legal representation and with no solid evidence that connected any of the three of them to the crime, there wasn't much that investigators could do. That October 2006, so a couple months after Robert's murder, a memorial for him was held at the William and Mary campus in Virginia, remember where he went to school. While

Jo and Victor had traveled to campus to attend it, the WAN family asked that they stay away so the focus could be kept on memorializing or memorializing Robert. And that makes sense because they're like, hey, you guys are, you know, suspicious in this crime. Like, it's best you guys just kind of like keep your distance. Yeah, makes total sense. And as you can imagine, Kathy struggled immensely with the loss and her transition into a life without her husband of three years. She started seeing a Christian grief counselor that she said helped with both her

grief and her faith. And after a few months, she returned to work part time. But months passed with no evidence, no confessions and no leads. And police were only able to make contact with Joe, Victor, and Dylan through their attorneys. Although the three did cooperate when in January of 2007, they were asked

to provide hair samples and fingerprints, so they did do this. On August 6, 2007, almost a year to the day after Robert's murder, Kathy's attorney, Eric Holder, held a press conference at Robert's former firm, Covington and Burling. And there, Kathy implored police and FBI to continue investigating her husband's case. Her attorney, Eric, spoke directly to Joe Victor and Dylan and said, quote, for those in 1509 Swan Street, where Robert was killed, you need to truly ask yourselves.

Truly, truly ask yourselves. Truly, truly ask yourselves. Have I provided the police with all the information that might be relevant to the investigation of this crime? Only you, your conscience, and your God know the answer to that question. But that is the question you must ask yourselves if you care about Roberts. If you truly care about his family, if you care about Kathy, come forward and share all of the information that you have. But still nothing. So on October 27, 2008, over two years after Robert's murder, the superior court of the District of Columbia released a 14-page affidavit, which you can still read online, charging Dylan Ward with obstruction of justice.

The affidavit claimed it would have been impossible to gain entry into the backyard over the fence, go through the back door, walk upstairs, stab Robert Fadley without making a sound, clean up the scene, and all of the evidence and escape without getting caught all within 45 minutes. It also asserted some shocking evidence that had not been made public. Robert had been sexually assaulted at the time of his death. He also appeared to have been drugged prior to his stabbing, which would explain the complete absence of defense wounds.

So this means someone, if an intruder was involved, like these men are saying, someone would have had to have entered through the back door somehow, if they couldn't have gone over the gate had they get into the backyard and through the back door, gone to the second floor guest room, drugged Robert, without any signs or noise of struggle or fight except groaning, sexually assaulted him, killed him, cleaned up the scene and left without being caught. Especially because the three men claimed they heard the back door censor, and then they heard a groaning shortly after. So you didn't come

downstairs right away from those sounds. Like Heath and I have a security system and if we had company over and heard the back door open when we're all like going to sleep, not only would we check it out, but we would go lock that door and we live in the suburbs, not a townhouse in the city. Yeah, and I will add though Joe said he did go down and check it out when he heard all this. But I don't feel at all, like, these things could have happened to Robert in the time that it would take Joe to walk down stairs. Also, this contradicts Joe's story

that they saw Robert standing by the back door bleeding when they came down, because if he was drugged How would he have walked downstairs by himself to stand in the doorway? Especially bleeding after being stabbed three times. Yes Also did they like you said did they hear the the back door sensor a second time when the perpetrator would have left? Also, I just find it really strange that some random intruder would enter a house just to sexually assault and then kill a 30 year old man and then leave. That just doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't make any sense, especially because there were other people in the house, why

Robert's, and then you leave and there's no evidence that you were there, nobody saw you, nobody heard you, and that's why it's so weird because yes, I know Joe and Victor were, at least were on the third floor, but like, again, if you heard that stuff and you came down, there's no way that he could have been drugged, sexually assaulted and murdered, in the time that it would have taken you

to walk downstairs, even if he had waited a few minutes. Well, things are also about to get even weirder. In his autopsy, the medical examiner claimed that she found multiple needle puncture marks, one on the left side of his neck, the center of his chest, the upper portion of his right foot, and then the back of his left hand. That's a lot.

Yeah, so obviously this looks like he was drugged, correct? Yeah, and since many times. However, there were no signs of a struggle and his only other injuries were the three stab wounds that killed him. While a knife was found on the bedside table, experts concluded that that was not the murder weapon because while it was confirmed to be coated in Robert's blood, the fibers on the knife were not from the t-shirt that Robert was wearing at that time, but from a towel next to the bed which had been coated in his blood and then wiped on this knife.

So that's even more strange that there's this bloody knife next to the bed and it's not the one that was used to kill Robert. That's like that says staged, yes. Like in bold letters. 100% and then the size of this knife was also inconsistent with the stab wounds, which were relatively shallow. The knife found on the bedside table was too large to have been this murder weapon. Yeah, so this begs the question, why was there a knife on his bedside table that had his blood on it that wasn't the murder weapon? Someone would have had to have used the towel that had his blood on it to wipe a random

knife with the blood and laid on the table? Why? That makes no sense. So now let's talk about the toxicology report regarding the drugging theory, because this part is very tricky. Because here's the thing. They never actually were able to prove that robber was drugged. The reason they believed he was is because of all those needle marks on his body, obviously, and the fact that there was no struggle during his assault and murder. So because of these things, it's believed that he was injected with some kind of paralytic drug before he was killed. But according to his toxicology report, he was tested for, please bear with me for all these

drug names. Ethanol, acetone, methanol, isopropanol, amphetamines, barbituids, opiates, PCP, propoxypine, carbon monoxide, and more. So obviously he was tested for many, many different drugs. Yeah, and all these tests were negative, but some believe that he was likely drugged with ketamine, which can cause drowsiness, double vision, confusion, hallucinations, and more. Now the reason it's believed to have possibly been used on Robert is because it has a short half-life. You can only test it in the body for two to four days unlike some other drugs.

But as we've seen in many other cases that we've covered on this show, some drugs need specific testing anyway. So just because none of the drugs they tested were found in his body, doesn't mean something else hadn't been in his system. Right. And because this case is so crazy, Heath and I were talking about it for like a very long time before we got in the studio today, and we're talking about ketamine. So ketamine can kill you. And at the point of overdose, you can experience vomiting, chest pain, paralysis, seizure, and more. Do you want to say your theory thus far? Yeah.

About the ketamine? Yeah, absolutely. And also the fact that they had mentioned, oh yeah, we drank water when we were sitting around the table. But then Joe later said there may have been some red wine involved. Right. So alcohol and ketamine mixed together can actually put you in a coma and can kill you. Definitely kill you. So if that's the pot, if that's a possibility that red wine was involved plus ketamine, it's it could have definitely killed Robert.

Right. Now, let's get definitely killed Robert. Right. Now, let's get back to the crime scene. Police hypothesized that a small knife that was found to be missing from a cult reset in Dylan's room was actually the weapon that took Robert's life. Why does he have a colorist set in his room?

I ask myself the same question, I have no idea. So the medical examiner also concluded that Robert had been unconscious at the time of the attack as there was almost no blood on his hands, indicating that he didn't even try to aid his own wounds, and was likely incapacitated for the whole ordeal. And as we mentioned earlier, only a very small amount of blood was found on the bed, making it appear that the sheets had been changed and washed after Robert's death. Investigators announced that they led both cadaver dogs and drug-sniffing dogs through the house, and the cadaver dogs alerted to a drain at the back of the house, and the dryer,

indicating that the blood was probably rinsed, washed, and dried, potentially before police even showed up. This is one of the most suspicious parts of the case because if these dogs are indicating that there's blood in the dryer and a back drain of the house, that really does tell us that a cover-up occurred. Yeah, absolutely. And the intruder surely didn't go use their frickin' washer and dryer?

Exactly. And the drug-snipping dogs alerted to two locations in the house, indicating that there were, at one point, drugs on the premises, although the only one that they were able to find was ecstasy. The document pointed out that Victor's Yahoo username was Kulu Ket. Kulu, which is a Hawaiian slang for butt, and Ket for ketamine,

which is what Robert was suspected to have been injected with at the time of his death, although this was never confirmed or found. I do think this part is interesting too, that maybe this then says that Victor used ketamine and was familiar with it or just familiar with drugs in general, especially since we know that there was ecstasy in the house at some point, meaning there are drugs in the house, meaning one of them could have drugged Robert.

Yeah, it's just a very interesting user name, Kulu Kets. Yeah. I don't know, you know? And obviously when he said butt, like he means ass, like I don't know if that was obvious. OK, so based on the condition of Robert's injuries, prosecutors claim the three men may have delayed their 9-1-1 call for at least 19 or as many as 49 minutes.

And the last shocking detail from the affidavit, Joe and Dylan were in a relationship as we hinted to earlier. While Joe and Victor had met years earlier and had been living together in a committed relationship for a while, Dylan, who had joined their home a few years earlier, was also in a sexual relationship with Joe, reportedly exploring BDSM with himself as the dominant partner. And this relationship was confirmed by multiple pictures on the hard drives seized from the home. And there's definitely nothing wrong with this.

We're not here to kink shame. Not at all. Never trying to do that. And it doesn't implicitly indicate that, you that you know they were all involved in robberts death but investigators pointed out that this could mean some sort of group sex scheme had gone wrong and that's kind of my speculation and my opinion well that's what you were saying earlier with or just a minute ago with the ketamine is like what, I mean, what if they had drug-drocker trying to, you know, sexually assault him and

then he died and they tried to cover it up by stabbing him. That's definitely possible. I wish there was more information regarding that on like the autopsy because I feel like if he was already dead, they would have been able to tell. If he was stabbed after he was already dead, maybe they have been able to tell. If he was stabbed after he was already dead, maybe they stabbed him during his overdose. I mean, who knows? Well, and then thinking about how many injection marks

were on his body, it's very possible that they didn't know how much of a dose of whatever drug they gave him. Right. And then he overdosed and they had to stage the event. Obviously, this is pure speculation. I know what I said that you have to do not come after me, but this is just kind of my opinion. Yeah, we're just we're just talking here, you know. So, police also found such an impressive

collection of sex toys and torture implements that they had to have a sex toy expert on payroll for the trial, which I thought was very interesting. Yeah, I've actually never heard of that before. Neither. These men probably faced unnecessary criticism for these practices, but as this relates to Robert's death, it does look suspicious. Definitely. While the affidavit was comprehensive and seemed conclusive, there were still no eyewitness accounts,

at least not that the men were willing to share and no murder weapon. So that's another thing. If the murder weapon wasn't found, did one of these men are involved, they would have had to have somehow gotten rid of it within the time before police arrived. Absolutely, and I just don't see an intruder

taking the time to rub Robert's blood on a knife that wasn't even used to kill him and then just lay it beside the bedside. That's why this is so hard because we also don't know the exact time that Robert died. So how much time before police arrived did whoever have to cover this up or to hide evidence? So many questions. So while police were finally able to arrest Dylan on obstruction of justice, they were not able to pin the crimes on him. There's just not enough evidence.

Two days after the affidavit was released, they detained Dylan and kept him in federal prison for almost a month. But he still refused to change his story about what happened on that fateful evening. So he is not, he's not cracking. Yeah. And meanwhile, along with their attorneys, Joe and Victor were questioned again, hoping Dylan's arrest would bolster the investigation and convince them to talk. At this point, Joe and Victor were also arrested for obstruction of justice, but released on $100,000 bonds,

which they paid in cash. On November 25, 2008, Kathy filed additional charges, a wrongful death lawsuit against the three. The evidence suggests that rather than administering aid to Robert I or making a prompt report to authorities, defendants spent the crucial minutes after the stabbing, coordinating their stories, altering and orchestrating the crime scene and destroying evidence, and this is what the affidavit said. On June 29, 2010, Judge Lynn Leibowitz officially found the men not guilty for charges of conspiracy, obstruction of justice, and tampering with evidence.

And there was never a trial for the murder of Robert Wann. Judge Liebuitz said afterward, quote, My focus on the difference between moral certainty and evidentiary certainty, in this case is probably cold comfort to those who love Robert Wann and wish for some sort of measure of peace or justice, and I am extremely sorry for this. Which I do understand because looking at this of all the details in our heads were like, oh, they're guilty, but there's no actual evidence pointing to their guilt and that's

what's so frustrating. Right. We don't have any physical evidence that points to any three of them. So even though her decision is frustrating, it is fair to the actual evidence. Right. It's not fair, but you know what I mean. I know what you mean, yeah.

So on August 3, 2011, the civil suit filed by Kathy was settled out of court for an undisclosed amount. Officially, Robert's case remains unsolved, and probably will be until one of the three people present that night decides to open up about what had happened. This case, however, is especially frustrating because it feels like there's so much more that could have been done. Toxicology reports were discarded, and so was the data on Robert's Blackberry. Although it appeared that two emails were sent and then deleted after he was supposed

to have been deceased. Neither of these leads were pursued. I don't know why the toxicology reports were discarded, you know, why the data on his Blackberry was, and then the whole thing with the two emails is really weird because if he was by that time supposed to be deceased, why would he send or how could he send two emails and then delete them and what did those emails say and who are they too? To me, that feels like it's possible that whoever the suspect is tried to write an email basically like to kind of like create an

alibi or a cover-up story and then said, oh no, that's not going to work and then just deleted them, right? I just I don't know why you do that from Robert's phone. Like it's it doesn't make sense. And the other thing to me with this case is motive. Like one thing I don't understand is like why these men again if they're involved would do this to their friend. Like with Joe being this idol and inspiring character in the gay community, why would he rape a man, let alone his friend, assuming that's what potentially happened, and like who was the mastermind?

Yeah, I don't know. Those are the questions that I have. I just don't know because like we were saying earlier like I my kind of theory is that They wanted to sexually assault him again. I don't know why so they drugged him and did so and maybe he died of an overdose or he was Overdosing so they staged a murder or Like they were afraid that he was going to find out what they were doing and that the drugs weren't working, so they staged a murder, you know,

like those are what I'm thinking happened, but again, I don't know why they would do this to him. The detail that always sticks with me in this case is the fact that Robert was sexually assaulted because if they perchance happened to be doing drugs together or something like that, okay, maybe he overdosed and they tried to cover up the crime, but the fact that Robert was sexually assaulted, which we don't have the details of, it just speaks volumes to me in this case.

I agree. I don't think that Robert did drugs willingly. Again, if he was drugged, which to me, it feels like he had to have been with all those needle marks but I wonder I mean for three men if they're all involved to come together and do this to their friend how did this conversation even occur because to me if it's one of them and not all three of them why would they all have a story that doesn't make sense. Yeah, and is it completely possible that there was some sort of other suspect or intruder? Sure, but just given everything that we know, it's so hard to believe that. I agree. Also, I wonder, assuming they're involved, how they were able to incapacitate Robert in the first place.

Like, did two of them hold him down, or did they sneak up behind him and jab him in the neck? Dexter style, you know what I mean? And I don't mean that insensitively. It's just that's where my mind went. And again, why did they do this? He was just staying one night and in no them for years. They went to his freaking wedding. But I don't know. It's just it's it's so frustrating just having all this information and feeling like you don't know anything. Yeah. So let's get to some more potentially suspicious stuff. Joe and Victor eventually sold their house on Swan Street and moved to Miami, sure as Florida. Victor still works in marketing for the milk. The milk.

The milk industry. The milk industry. Some people do say milk. Milk industry. A job that he's maintained since before Robert's death. And Joe now goes by Joseph Anderson and is still practicing law, which is eki to me. Yeah, I don't, what's weird is not only one of them

change their names, but we're going to get to Dylan. Well, Dylan also moved to Florida and changed his name as well. He now goes by Dylan Thomas and is working in the fitness industry. And it appears that he moved down to the Fort Lauderdale Miami area to study Pilates and may have even lived in the Miami Shores home of Joe and Victor. But the most recent reports say that he is relocated to Seattle and is working as a Pilates instructor and missus. So very strange that after this, I mean,

obviously people can move around. They can do what they want to do. But being suspects in a crime and then changing your names and moving to Florida, I don't know. Yeah. Also, I feel like if you are genuinely innocent of a crime, and your name is out there on the internet with all this bad stuff attached to it and you're actually innocent I would understand why you would want to change your name sure, but I don't think they're innocent So now you're trying to change your names or you did and you're moving to a different area and trying to start a new When I fully believe in a lot of other people do that you did something horrible to a very good person I fully believe in a lot of other people do, that you did something horrible to a very good person.

So if you guys are interested in learning even more about this case, we suggest that you check out Judy Sang, who runs the YouTube channel, Asian American Legal Focus, and calls herself the YouTube lawyer. She was a great source of info here in this episode, especially in breaking down the legal jargon of the affidavit, and she and Robert actually knew each other.

They met at an Asian-American Pacific Bar Association happy hour when they were both interns. And there's also a blog entitled WhoMurderedRobertWon.wordpress.com, started by four local men who are passionate about finding answers in Robert's case, and that has hours of reading and documents you can really fall down a rabbit hole of this case. But for now, what do you guys think happened to Robert Warn? Thank you so much everybody for listening to this episode of Going West. Yes, thank you guys so much for listening to this episode and on Tuesday we'll have an

all new case for you guys to dive into. I mean, this case truly blows my mind. I can't believe it took us this long to dive into it, but oh my god, like I'm just so baffled by this and I feel so horrible for his family. And just the fact that he was just this great man who was just trying to sleep over at a friend's house so he could go to his job the next morning that he was doing for just the good of his own heart. Yeah, the thing that really frustrates me is that

there is just really so many questions. I know we say this sometimes in cases like, there's just so many questions and little answers, but really in this case, there really is just too many questions. I know we say this sometimes in cases like there's just so many questions and little answers, but really in this case, there really is just too many questions. And the fact that they are just scot-free, they're gone, they're doing their own thing, they're living their lives. And now, you know, this was how many years ago?

About 15. 15, 16 years ago. Yeah. I mean, just wow. It's, I really hope that justice comes to this case and that answers come for this family very soon. Yeah, regardless of whether these three men are involved or not, I just hope that this case sees justice

because it's time, it's time. Yeah, I completely agree. So if you guys have any theories or thoughts on this case, which I'm sure you do, please let us know. We have an Instagram at Going West Podcast, Twitter at Going West Pod, and then we have a Facebook page going West True Crime, but the one that's really fun

where you get to kind of comment and talk to Heathen Ey, is Going West Discussion Group on Facebook. If you ask to join, we will accept you and we'll have posts about this case in all our other cases where you can comment your theories and your thoughts and we'd love to talk about it with you guys. Yeah, let's talk about this one. Alright guys, so for everybody out there in the world, don't be a stranger. 1.5% 1.5% 1.5%

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