Going West: True Crime - The Idaho 4 Part Two - Arrest & Evidence // 268

Episode Date: January 7, 2023

Weeks after 4 college students were murdered in their Moscow, Idaho home, an arrest was made and some of the evidence that led to the arrest has been released. This is the continued story of Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle, Maddie Mogen, and Kaylee Goncalves, also known as the Idaho 4. AFFIDAVIT: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23564628-122922-affidavit-exhibit-a-statement-of-brett-payne Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What is going on True Crime fans, I'm your host Tee. And I'm your host Daphne. And you're listening to Going West. Hello everybody, so a couple months ago, as many of you know, we covered the Idaho 4K's, which is the murders of Ethan, Zanna, Kaylee, and Maddie. And there have been a ton of updates since then, including an arrest. And I know you guys probably have seen a lot of these updates, but the day before this episode is coming out, which is the day we're recording it, the affidavit was was released which includes a slew of new information so we wanted to kind of update you guys with

that for those who have not read it or don't want to read it and just want to hear somebody read it to them and of course you know our hearts really go out to the families of Ethan, Zanna, Kaylee and Maddie during this time. I mean we just cannot imagine how tough this week has been for them to let alone the last couple months. Well, luckily, it seems that justice may be right around the corner in this case, so we're going to give you all the updates we have and all the information that's been released to the public. So, this is episode 268 of Going West, so let's get into it. Nearly seven weeks after the stabbing deaths of four college students in Idaho, a break in the case that has gripped this nation.

In conjunction with the Pennsylvania State Police, Federal Bureau of Investigation, detectives arrested 28-year-old Brian Christopher, co-burger in Allbright's Pennsylvania on a warrant for murder, sub-Ethan, Zena, Madison, and Kayleigh. In a chilling twist, police saviour leds killer studies criminology at Washington State University in Pullman, his apartment just over the state border, 15 minutes away from the crime scene. This is not the end of this investigation. In fact, this is a new beginning. In the early morning hours of November 13, 2022, Four University of Idaho students, including 20-year-old Ethan Chapin, 20-year-old Zanna

Cernodil, 21-year-old Maddie Mogan, and 21-year-old Kaley Gonzalez, were murdered in their Moscow Idaho House just days before the Thanksgiving holiday break. From the beginning, very little was released regarding the murders and many details remain unknown to the public. But just over six weeks later, on December 30, 2022, a 28 year old man named Brian Coburger was arrested for the murders in Pennsylvania. At the time of his arrest, Brian, who's from Pennsylvania, was found at his parents' house in the 100 block of Lampson Drive in Chestnut Hill Township in Monroe County, Pennsylvania.

The FBI had been watching his parents' house for several days, but finally moved in and brought him into custody at 2 a.m. on Friday, December 30th. When he was arrested, Brian asked if anybody else had been arrested and reportedly had a quiet blank stare, which has led some people to wonder if other people are involved, but there is no talks of that just yet. At his home was a or at his parents house was a white Hyundai Alontera which is the vehicle that police had been searching for for

weeks and they towed it away to process it for any evidence. Now before we get into the affidavit which came out today, so the day before the day before this episode comes out, sorry, and an affidavit for those who don't know is a written statement for use as evidence in court. This includes a ton of information that led to Brian's arrest. But first, we're gonna discuss the details that came out immediately after his arrest, all the stuff that we've been sitting on for the last six

or so days. So 28-year-old Brian Coburger is a PhD student at the Washington State University campus in Pullman, Washington, which is less than a 15-minute drive away from Moscow, Idaho, where the murders actually took place. And guess what Brian was studying? Criminal Justice and Criminology. Brian completed his graduate studies in Criminal justice at Desails University in the spring of 2022,

which is in Center Valley, Pennsylvania, just under an hour away from where he grew up. Then, in the summer of 2022, he moved to Eastern Washington to work towards his PhD. In May of 2022, Brian posted the following post to Reddit in the R-slash-X-con's thread. His username is criminology-underscore-student, and it reads, Hello, my name is Brian, and I'm inviting you to participate in a research project that seeks to understand how emotions and psychological traits influence decision-making when committing a crime. In particular, this study seeks to understand the story behind your most recent criminal offense,

with an emphasis on your thoughts and feelings throughout your experience. In the event that your most recent offense was not one that led to a conviction, you may still participate. Additional surveys are included after the open-ended section as to best understand your unique traits. The study should take about 15-20 minutes to fully complete. Your identity and all answers provided are completely confidential and the link to the survey is also an anonymous link.

This research has been approved by the DSAIL's University IRB. Participants must be 18 years of age or older, and if you opt to participate, you may terminate participation at any time for any reason. If you have any questions about this research, you may contact the research team via email, student investigator Brian Cobrager at bk5781 at desales.edu. Thank you for your time. Now linked at the bottom of this post is a desales website link that includes the following questions for a survey described in the post. So it's like the question and then there's a little text box and then you submit your

answer and move on to the next one. So here are the included questions. Did you struggle with or fight the victim? Did you prepare for the crime before leaving your home? Please detail what you were thinking and feeling at this point. How did you travel to and enter the location that the crime occurred? to and enter the location that the crime occurred. After arriving, what steps did you take prior to locating the victim or target? Please detail your thoughts and feelings. Why did you choose that victim or target over others? Before making your move, how did you approach the victim

or target? Please detail what you were thinking and feeling. What was the first move you made in order to accomplish your goal? Please detail any thoughts and feelings at this point. How did you accomplish your goal? Please explain what you were thinking and feeling. And this is the last question that says, before leaving, is there anything else you did? How did you leave the scene? After committing the crime, what were you thinking and feeling?

So, you know, this is very interesting to read all this after his arrest, of course. Yeah. Because, obviously, I mean, I do understand as a criminology student why you'd want to kind of understand the psychological aspect of a crime being committed. But it kind of, I think, just makes all of us wonder, did you want to know so bad that you went out and did it yourself to find out?

Right. I think that's what most people are thinking. So while Brian was working towards his PhD, he was teaching assistant, and according to a criminology student at the college named Hayden, after the murders, Brian seemed preoccupied and became much more lenient on his grading. Now Hayden stated, quote, �Definitely around then he started grading everybody just 100s. Pretty much if you turn something in, you're getting high marks. He stopped leaving notes, he seemed preoccupied.

The couple times that he did come after, or around that time period, he had a little more facial hair, stubble, less well-kept, he was a little quieter. And another student added, quote, he always seemed a little bit on edge. We just assumed he was kind of shy. But according to a former professor, Brian was quote, one of my best students ever. He was a great writer and a brilliant student. In my 10 years of teaching, I've only recommended

two students to a PhD program and he was one of them. He was one of my best students. Everyone is in shock over this." So during the past week, Brian has been considered a, quote, model inmate, and he also made it clear that he was eager to clear his name of this crime. However, the evidence against him, at least of what has been released thus far, is incredibly damning. Now let's dive into that affidavit, which we're going to be taking direct quotes from. The following quote is from Brett Payne, who is an officer with the Moscow Police Department. Officer Smith and I entered the King Road Residence through the bottom floor door on the north

side of the building. Officer Smith and I then walked upstairs on the second floor. Officer Smith directed me down the hallway to the west bedroom on the second floor, which I learned later was Zana Kernotals. Just before this room, there was a bathroom door on the south wall of the hallway. As I approached the room, I could see a body, later identified as Zana's laying on the floor. Colonel was deceased with wounds which appeared to have been caused by an edged weapon. Also in the room was a male, later identified as Ethan Chapin. Ethan was also deceased with wounds later determined to be caused by sharp force injuries.

I then followed Officer Smith upstairs to the third floor of the residents. The third floor consisted of two bedrooms and one bathroom. The bedroom on the west side of the floor was later determined to be Kaylee can solve his room. I later learned that there was a dog in the room when Moscow police officers initially responded. The dog belonged to Kaylee and her ex-boyfriend Jack. Officers Smith then pointed out a small bathroom on the east side of the third floor. This bathroom shared a wall with Madison Mogan's bedroom. And as we stated in our first episode on this case, Kaylee

called her ex-boyfriend Jack, who we accidentally called Jake. I'd read it everywhere that his name was Jake, but it's actually Jack. She called him multiple times between 2.30 a.m. and 3.00 a.m. And we had originally discussed if this was like out of character and if this possibly happened at the time of the murders. But it's now believed that the murders occurred between 4am and 4.25am as we will get into, so she would have made these phone calls well before so it is not connected as far as we know.

So I'm continuing now from Heath's quote, so it says, as I entered this bedroom, Matty's, I could see two females in the single bed in the room. Both Kaylee and Maddie were deceased with visible stab wounds. I also later noticed what appeared to be a tan leather sheath laying on the bed next to Maddie's right side. The sheath was later processed and had a K-bar and, quote, USMC and the United States Marine Corps Eagle Globe and Anchor insignia stamped on the outside of it. The Idaho State Lab later located a single source of male DNA, suspect profile, left on the button snap of the knife sheath.

So basically, Brian Cobrager's DNA was allegedly found on the button snap of the knife sheath, found on Maddie's bed next to her body and Kaylees. So this is obviously huge considering the knife sheath belonged to the knife that was used to murder these four innocent young people. And as we will discuss, the killer was apparently wearing gloves which would mean that brine's DNA would have been on the sheath before it before it entered the home you know like like maybe when he purchased it and opened it without gloves yeah that's what I'm assuming is you know allegedly he was trying to kind of cover up his DNA by using gloves but maybe didn't think about the fact that his DNA was already on the sheath. Totally. And the affidavit also goes on to explain that Bethany's room, and Bethany is one of the two surviving roommates,

was located on the east side of the first floor, which we assumed in our previous episode, but Dylan's bedroom, Dylan's the other surviving roommate, was actually located on the second floor, alongside Zanna's bedroom in a bedroom that we had all surmised was possibly an empty room and I think all of us really thought that Bethany and Dylan were on the ground floor because the police weren't called until about or after 11 a.m. So this is not true. Dylan's bedroom was on the second floor and and she did hear and see some things which we're going to get into.

And to be fair, you know, none of us really knew the full layout of the house when this crime was first committed. We were all kind of speculating where people were in the house and who was in which room. So I think now we have a clearer picture of where these murders occurred and who was in what bedroom? Totally. And there's still a lot of information missing, obviously, but we do have a lot more today. The amphitheod also goes on to confirm that Ethan and Zanna were at the Sigma Chihouse from

9 p.m. to 145 a.m. and then they returned to the house where Bethany saw them. In Kayley and Maddie were at the corner club from 10 p.m. to 130 a.m. followed by being at the Grubtruck as we know and then they returned home at 156 a.m. so less than 10 minutes after Ethan and Zana did. Everyone in the house was either in their beds or asleep by 4am, but Zana actually ordered food from DoorDash around that very time, meaning that she was awake and likely eating food when the killer entered the home. But continuing with the affidavit, so Dylan, one of the other surviving roommates, stated

that she was awoken at approximately 4am by what she stated sounded like Kaylee playing with her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms, which were located on the third floor. A short time later, Dylan said that she heard who she thought was Kaylee say something to the effect of, there's someone here. A review of records obtained from a forensic download of Zana's phone showed that this could also have been Zana, as her cell phone indicated that she was likely awake and using the TikTok app at approximately 412 AM. So we know the murders occurred after or around 412 AM more specifically because Zana had

been on TikTok and possibly eating her door dash order while some others in the house slept and others were awake. And here's the continuing from the quote. Dylan stated she looked out of her bedroom, but did not see anything when she heard the comment about someone being in the house. Dylan stated she opened her door a second time when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Zanna's room. Dylan then said she heard a male voice say something to the effect of quote, it's okay, I'm going to help you. So was this Ethan or the killer?

We're not sure. Dylan stated she opened her door a third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her. I'm picturing more of like a COVID mask. I think that's probably what it was. Dylan described the figure as 510 or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows. And that's a really interesting statement. Yeah, because if we know anything about Brian, it's that he's got some bushy eyebrows.

He does. The male walked past Dylan as she stood in a frozen shock phase. The male walked towards the backiding glass door. Dylan locked herself in her room after seeing the mail. Dylan did not state that she recognized the mail. This leads investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene. So obviously we need to talk about this. Yeah, I mean, this, what happened with Dylan after like what she was feeling, what she thought was happening, or whether or not she contacted anyone during this time

is unknown to the public. I mean, it said that the police weren't called until 11.58 AM, which is about 7.5 hours later. So without judging or speculating her movements here, we're just going to wait for more information to come out as to what happened after she locked her door. Yeah, I think the biggest, I think this is one of the most interesting points about this case is that Dylan actually did see the killer.

Absolutely. Right. And then the killer. We didn't know that before. We just assumed like in the first episode, like I was saying, that Dylan and Bethany were on the first floor and they knew they didn't know that anything was going on, but that is not true. Right, and we have to question, why did this killer spare Dylan's life and walk past her and leave out the door, possibly because they were nervous

about somebody contacting police or they just wanted to get away from the scene as quickly as possible. We don't know and we're definitely going to wait for those details. But that is a huge point of interest in this case. Yeah, I mean, the fact that the killer saw her and walked past her and then she locked the door and then they seemingly left after that. You know, maybe they had, unfortunately, killed Zana, Ethan, Kaylee, and Maddie already,

and they just wanted to get out. But I mean, crazy that he was spotted by Dylan. Right, because this is information. Yeah, it's information that we did not previously have. Everybody kind of believed that the killer just slipped away into the night, which they did, but without being seen. But now we know like clad in black, wearing a mask,

but his eyes and his eyebrows could be seen like. Yes. Just very interesting to know. At approximately 417 AM, a security camera located at 1112 King Road, a residence immediately to the northwest of 1122 King Road. The girls house, which we'll refer to as the King Road Residence, picked up a distorted

audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud. A dog can also be heard barking numerous times starting at 4.17am. Now the security camera is less than 50 feet from the West Wall of Zanna's room. Which is very close. So yeah, it appears that within 10 or 15 minutes of Zanna's door dash driver leaving the house, the killer entered and began attacking at 4.17 am. And that's such a crazy detail because... Because they were some of them were awake.

Right, and it's just not often that people order, I mean, I don't really know. I don't order DoorDash at 417, but. I really want to know, I'm just just add a curiosity what that was because I feel like a lot of things are closed that late. So I wonder what it was. We're assuming that it was food because it's DoorDash,

but you can also order other things on DoorDash like things from CVS or a drugstore, whatever. So I'm not sure exactly what it was, but you know interesting to know that she at least was awake. Yeah and what I was gonna say is that I just feel like it's so crazy that the DoorDash driver was there around the same time

that the killer was there because typically crimes like this, there's usually everybody's asleep nobody's around you know kind of thing you imagine at that time too right that's what I'm saying is why he probably chose that time in the middle of the fucking nights the door to ash drivers dropping off food and the killer is right there yeah and so that makes me wonder too if he was there at the scene when the door to our striver was there And if he saw the food or whatever it was being dropped off and that's what I was gonna say Yeah, and then thought like oh somebody's awake like did that

interfere in some way did that give the killer any kind of doubt as to whether or not they wanted to approach and they decided to anyway like Yeah, it's absolutely crazy. So let's continue on with this Avedavit. During the processing of the crime scene, investigators found a latent shoe print, so a shoe print that's not visible to the naked eye. This was located during the second processing of the crime scene by the ISP forensic team.

The detected shoe print showed a diamond-shaped pattern similar to the pattern of a Vans-type shoe sole just outside the door of Dylan's bedroom located on the second floor. This is consistent with Dylan's statement regarding the suspect's path of travel. A review of camera footage indicated that a white sedan hereafter suspect vehicle 1 was observed traveling westbound in the 700 block of Indian Hills Drive in Moscow at approximately 3.26am and westbound on Steiner Avenue of Idaho State Highway 95 in Moscow at approximately 3.28 a.m. On this video, it appeared suspect vehicle 1 was not displaying a front license plate.

So this basically means that he was in Moscow about 45 minutes prior to the murders. Exactly. And just by the way, front license plates are not mandatory in Pennsylvania, where Brian's white hundial Alontera was registered, but they are required in Idaho and Washington. So this indicated that the person's car was likely not a local one or not registered locally. So that was kind of one of the first clues. Now a review of the footage from multiple videos obtained from the King Road neighborhood

showed multiple sightings of suspect vehicle one starting at 3.29 a.m. and ending at 4.20 a.m. that means their car, you know, Brian's car allegedly, was in the area for 50 minutes like in the neighborhood. Yeah. So when we're talking about the door dash order arriving, was he watching, starting at 330, watching the house and just trying to come up with a plan. Well, he was there at the very least. That seems like it could have been a huge possibility. Yeah. These sightings show suspect vehicle one makes an

initial three passes by the one one122 King Road residents and then leave Via Wollenta Drive. Based off of my experience as a patrol officer, this is a residential neighborhood with a very limited number of vehicles that travel in the area during the early morning hours. Upon review of the video, there are only a few cars that enter and exit this area during this time frame. Suspect Vehicle 1 can be seen entering the area a fourth time at approximately 404am. It can be seen driving eastbound on King Road. When suspect vehicle 1 is in front of the King Road residents, it appeared to unsuccessfully attempt to park or turn around in the road.

And then 16 minutes later, at 4.20 am, so just three minutes after the dog is heard barking, and the thud, and the sounds can be heard from the King Road residents from their neighbor, Suspect Vehicle One is next seen departing the area of the King Road residents at approximately 4.20 a.m. at a high rate of speed. So knowing that we heard the dog bark and the thud and the kind of like sounds coming from the King Road Residence, the house at 417 and it starts at 417 and then at 420 the car is speeding away. Does that mean this all happened in three minutes? I mean, I know you don't know, but I'm just speculating.

I would assume it couldn't have happened in three minutes like the entire scenario, but I feel like it could have I mean maybe maybe I mean if you think about it You wouldn't want to linger long and especially you know Dylan is awake and she is aware of what's going on and Reportedly didn't hear anything after that which is why police think that the killer just left right after that Like I really think this only took a few minutes think that the killer just left right after that? Like, I really think this only took a few minutes. Yeah, the actual murders could have taken a few minutes, but then you have time that you have to account for of him getting inside the residence,

also parking his car and walking to the residence. Yes. And we also know that he had passed by the residence at least three times before he stopped and decided to go in. So he was definitely casing the area, getting a feel for, you know, if it was the right time, if it was the best opportunity to go in.

But also we're not sure where his car was parked at the time. We don't know that, that has not been released. We don't know if he parked right out front, we don't know if he parked off the street and walked. Right. So after discovering the white vehicle sped away from the area of the girls' home, at the time the murders were thought to have been committed, police then go on to explain that

an expert viewed the surveillance footage of the vehicle and determined that it was a 2011 to 2016 Hyundai Alontera. And they were able to trace this car back to Pullman, Washington, where they were able to track its movements from WSU at 244am on November 13, 2022, and heading on the highway towards Moscow to commit the murders. Then at 5.25am, the same vehicle is spotted on five different cameras in Pullman returning from Moscow. 12 days after the murders on November 25, law enforcement announced that they were looking for a white Hyundai Alontera and then four days later on November 29, is when while searching for registered white Hyundai Alontera in the general area, Brian Cobrager's white Alonthra

was identified. He had Pennsylvania license plates with the number LFZ8649. They then discovered that Brian lived on Northeast Valley Road in an apartment in Pullman, Washington, located just 11 miles or 18 kilometers from the home where the murders took place. So really quick like you just said I just kind of want to

recap for a second. They had followed just using various surveillance cameras. They followed the Alontera from Moscow to Pullman, Washington and were able to discover again Pullman and Moscow are like 10, 15 minutes away. We're so close. Yeah. So, meaning that he left Pullman at 2.44 AM and arrived back at 5.25 AM, so almost three hours later.

Right, and what would you be doing in Moscow in the middle of the night? I mean, there could be many different things, but obviously what we know now makes us, you know, it's all connecting here. Especially with what's to come. So when they discovered that Brian is six feet tall, white, and weighs 185 pounds, and has bushy eyebrows,

they began wondering if he could have been the killer. As his description matched in some ways to Dylan's account, and they discovered that on November 18th, five days after the murders, Brian changed his license plate. But it wasn't for any real suspicious reasons, because they were about to expire, so he registered his vehicle in the state of Washington with plate number CFB 708. Up until about December 12, 2022. So exactly one month after the murders, which occurred in the very early morning hours of November 13th, as we keep saying, Brian was going to school in Washington and was also spotted in Idaho.

So he remained in the area for a month, which is something that we wondered. You know, we had talked about this in the first episode with the Thanksgiving break, did the killer leave and go home for the holiday and then just not return to campus and use the excuse of, oh, I don't feel safe, so I'm not gonna go back. Or did they stay?

So Brian was in the area for a month. But on about December 12th, he and his dad who had flown from Pennsylvania to Washington drove cross country from Washington to Pennsylvania to go home for Christmas. And I just wonder why they did this. Like instead of his dad getting a plane ticket for himself, like why not just get one for Brian so you guys don't have to drive over

2500 miles or 37 hours in the winter Yeah, I don't really know unless Brian was just really adamant about having his car back home Well, it just it that or it makes me wonder if he didn't want to leave his car behind for Any kind of reason wondering if somebody could could search it while he's not there or if he wanted to get rid of evidence in various states along the way or simply they wanted to do a road trip. But winter just is a terrible time for that, especially in a sedan. Right. Yeah.

Just a thought. But they went on the road trip together and they were stopped twice by police during this drive. Now, both times we're in Indiana for tailgating on December 15th. So there was a first stop. And then again, just six minutes later for the same thing, again, tailgating, because he was following the car in front of him way too

closely. They then proceeded to Pennsylvania without being stopped again. And 15 days later, 28 year old Brian Coburger was arrested for four counts of first degree murder and burglary in the killings of Ethan Chapin, Zanna Cernodal, Maddie Mogan and Kayleigh Gensolves. In the fall of 2022, so just a couple months before the murders, Brian had applied for an internship with the Pullman Police Department. And in an essay, he explained that he had an interest in assisting rule law enforcement agencies with how to better collect and analyze technological data in public safety operations.

So this obviously is very interesting. He was trying to intern for a fucking police department here. And as we know, based on what we've discussed in this episode, it was made clear that the vehicle leaving the area of the home at the time of the murders was Brian's vehicle. But alongside that, they pulled his cell phone records, and they did not detect his phone in the proximity of King Road between 3am and 5am. However, on the morning of November 13, 2022, at 2.42am, two minutes before his car was caught on surveillance footage by Washington State University in Pullman, his cell phone

pinged in theman, his cell phone pinged in the area of his apartment. Then seven minutes later, it was traveling south through Pullman, meaning that he was on the move, and again, this is an hour and a half before the murders were committed. Just after the phone is picked up traveling south, the phone stops reporting to the network, meaning he either turned it off or put it into airplane mode. His phone remains out of network for exactly 2 hours until 448 AM. When it pings on the Idaho State Highway, just south of Moscow, Idaho, 28 minutes after his car was seen,

speeding away from King Road in Moscow. Brian then takes the long way back to Pullman Washington and returns to Pullman at 5.30am. I mean, I think the fact that his phone was off is enough evidence to point to him hiding his location, but still obviously being in the area because of the phone things we do have and the surveillance footage of his car. So I think the lack of location is just as damning as it would have been if his phone pinged it in the vicinity of the house. Yeah, absolutely. But just because it's phoned in pinging the vicinity of their house that night does not mean it never did.

This is crazy. Seven days before arresting Brian on December 23rd, police received a search warrant to check his historical phone records for his cell phone via AT&T, and they discovered that on 12 occasions prior to November 13th, 2022, Brian had been in the area of the King Road residents, like in the neighborhood. And during each occasion, except for one, they were in the late evening and early morning hours. So this leads us to believe that he was watching and stalking either one or all members of that house.

Yeah, he was definitely casing that house for at least a month i mean twelve times though this is multiple months it's like three months right right i'll go into that right now so unfortunately we don't know what this time why or who was his target if he even had one and how they had originally come into contact and we can only speculate which we won't do on this right now but interestingly enough according to the afidavit originally come into contact and we can only speculate which we won't do on this right now but interestingly enough according to the affidavit on august twenty first to uh...

twenty twenty two his phone was in the area of the king road residents between ten thirty four p.m. and eleven thirty five p.m. so he was there for one hour and this was three months before the murder that's so insane, unless he had some sort of connection to the area, like a friend who lived in that area, I mean, which is so, seems so, it's so plausible. Yeah, he was definitely there casing that house. Yeah, I mean, he didn't have connections to the University

of Idaho, he just went to the University, or Washington State University, sorry. So these are different schools in different states, even though they're close by, and maybe he would have reason to go to Moscow for one reason or another, although I will say, say, oh my God, I will say, Moscow is, I consist of about 25,000 people

where Pullman consists of about 35,000 people. So Pullman is a little bit bigger. So it's not like, oh, I live in this tiny town and I'm going to the city to do stuff, shop, or whatever. Right. He would, I think, have less reason to go there. Maybe not no reason at all, but I don't know. I would be very interested to know that.

Then at 11.37 pm, so about two minutes after his phone left the King Road area, so on his way out of the area, Brian was stopped at a routine traffic stop in Moscow, Idaho. Brian was the sole occupant in this vehicle as police reviewed the body cam footage. Now from the affidavit, it appears police are confident that the car in the footage from the early morning hours of the murders is Brian's vehicle, despite the fact that they couldn't identify the front plate number since the car didn't have one and Brian's didn't have one either until he registered it in Washington.

They also matched other footage with Brian personally where the car in the footage is known to be Brian's car, which doesn't have a front plate, but it matches to be the exact same car that is seen in the footage from Moscow on November 13th. So that footage is Brian's car pulling into an Albertans grocery store in Clarkston, Washington on November 13th at 12.36pm, hours after the murders. And his phone pings match up to this exact spot. But not only this, he's seen exiting the vehicle and is also caught on surveillance footage inside the store where he purchased items and then left at 104pm. And it's unclear if it was during this visit

or a future visit, but police said that Brian wore gloves when he was out in public after the murders. So obviously that's very suspicious, including on his grocery store visits. Yeah, there's a lot of people are looking at the body came footage from when he was pulled over on his way to Pennsylvania a couple weeks ago and they're looking at his right hand and looking at his middle finger and to see if there's any injuries.

His wrist, yeah. And people point out that it looks like there is a cut on the right side of his right wrist and at the kind of knuckle of maybe his middle finger, but it's a pixelated body cam footage, or it's pixelated body cam footage, and you know, with the lighting, it's hard to tell, but people are kind of thinking of him doing sabbing motions, holding the knife,

and how plausible it would be to cut himself as many people would in that kind of situation. So I don't want to really speculate on that, but in that kind of situation so i don't really speculate on that but people are kind of picking that apart and saying well especially if he was wearing gloves is it maybe just because he doesn't want people to find his uh... dna or is he trying to hide cuts right now it was winter after all uh... but they do believe that he was trying not to leave his fingerprints

behind anywhere in case police were on to him at this point. And that makes sense. So even stranger, five hours after the murders were committed, and three hours before police arrived on the scene, Brian's cell phone was tracked in the area of the King Road Residence between 9.12 a.m. and 9.21 a.m. which would lead us to believe that he was returning to the scene of the crime to scope it out. Yeah, he's just there for almost 10 minutes at 9 in the morning. Why? Crazy. Now that's the end of this affidavit and there won't be more information until later next week when Brian has another hearing. In his hearing that occurred in Laita County, Idaho, the day before this episode comes out,

which is January 5, 2022, the judge read him his rights and explained that his probable cause hearing must occur within 14 days. And during it, the state will have to prove that more likely than not, he committed the crimes that he's being charged of. She also explained his charges for burglary with the intent to commit felony murder. According to the FBI, the way that they were able to connect the DNA found on the knife's sheath and possibly other DNA evidence that has not yet been made public was by collecting trash found at Brian's family's Pennsylvania home. The DNA was recovered three days before his arrest on December 27, 2022, and the sample from the trash actually belonged to Bryan's father, Michael,

and connected to the DNA found at the scene with a 99.99% chance. So basically, when they compared the DNA, there was a 99.99% chance. So basically when they compared the DNA, there was a 99.9% chance that the DNA found in the trash of the parent's house belonged to the father of the person whose DNA was found at the crime scene on the knife sheet. So it's kind of like twisty and complicated, but that's how they connected it. And it seems pretty strong. So by now, after Brian's arrest, we can assume that police have taken his DNA and can compare his actual DNA to that found

at the crime scene. And I'm assuming because this was only a week ago that is still in motion. But we're not sure how they had the father's DNA, though many sources state that he did a genealogical test online at some point and that's how they were able to make this confirmation, but we're not 100% sure on that. Yeah, we can't speculate on that quite yet until more details come out.

Other information that's come out this week includes comments on Brian's character from people who have come into contact with him both this past year and in the last 10 plus years. People from high school have come forward and said that he struggled with his weight and heroin addiction and that he was often bullied in school. Now according to a girl named Sarah from his high school, she said quote, it was bad, there was definitely something off about him. We couldn't tell exactly what it was. Brian was bullied a lot. He always wanted to fight somebody. He was bullying people.

She added that he was bullied and that he bullied others, and he was often rejected by girls. And just a few months ago, leading up to his move to Washington this past summer, he would frequent a brewery in Pennsylvania called Seven Sirens Brewery Company. The owner said that he would often come to the bar and sit alone, observing and watching people during his time there. She added that he would ask women, both bar patrons and staff members, who they were at the brewery with with and where they lived. And if the girls didn't show an interest back, he would get upset with them.

And in one instance, he even apparently called an employee a bitch because she didn't want to answer his very personal questions. Due to his behavior, employees made a note in his account because, you know, this brewery had a system where they would scan someone's ID and then they can make comments on their account. And on Brian's account, they wrote quote, This guy makes creepy comments keep an eye on him. He'll have two or three beers and then just get a little too comfortable. So this note was in his account and one day in 2022, he went back in, and the owner

had to confront him and say, hey, Brian, welcome back. We appreciate you coming back, but I just wanted to talk to you real quick, and make sure that you're going to be respectful this time, and we're not going to have any issues. And according to her, Brian was totally taken aback by this comment, and said, quote, I don't know what you're talking about. You totally have me confused. But everyone at the bar was well aware of how he acted in there, so she knew that she wasn't mistaken.

Brian proceeded to just have one beer and then left and he never went back to that brewery. Yuck. So while in jail this past week, they have apparently been trying to accommodate his vegan diet, feeding him mostly peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and rice and beans, and according to a source at the Monroe County Correctional Facility, when asked why he was in Moscow, Brian replied that the shopping is better in Idaho. Again, I'm curious what shops are in Moscow, a smaller city than Pullman, but I'm not familiar with the area.

Yeah, that's kind of an interesting statement. I'm popping in right before releasing this episode to add the latest news that came out this morning, Friday, January 6th. So an anonymous source, I don't know, possibly a neighbor or local or something, but it's unclear. Told law enforcement that before Brian was arrested, but while he was in Pennsylvania at his parent's house, he quote, "'Cleaned his car inside and outside,

not missing an inch.'" They also told police that Brian was seen wearing surgical gloves around the house and out of the house on more than one occasion. And while police were surveilling him for four days, they witnessed Brian at 4 a.m. leave his family's house with trash bags and put them in his neighbors trash bins.

But then police actually grabbed this trash and sent it to the Idaho State Lab because obviously this looked very suspicious to them. And then there is a new quote from Kayleigh's father Steve, and this is regarding Brian's arrest and the possibility of him getting the death penalty if found guilty. He said quote, I want this case to get stronger and stronger to the point where he realizes he's not going to be on the planet that long.

Every time he turns on the TV, he sees us, and every time he thinks something positive is happening in the case, he sees one of us communicating, and he realizes he has zero hope. Justice doesn't have a room where you can read books, and you can go to school, and you can have three meals, and you can have your vegan diet. and you can go to school and you can have three meals and you can have your vegan diet. Justice is when you leave the planet and the whole world is able to rejoice and be glad you are not there. Currently, 28-year-old Brian Koeberger is being held without bond at the LaTaw County jail in Moscow, which is just a six-minute drive from the King Road Residence.

He claims that he is innocent of these crimes, but as you guys now know, there is a lot of evidence against him and we will see how this unfolds soon. Although it won't bring their loved ones back, we hope that this will all come to a close as quickly as possible so the families of Kaylee, Maddie, Zana and Ethan can start to process this horrible tragedy. Thank you so much everybody for listening to this episode of Going West. Yes, thank you guys so much for listening to this episode and on Tuesday we'll have an all-new case for you guys to dive into This new information is just crazy. It kind of helps us put the pieces of the puzzle together

But most importantly somebody who seems to truly have committed these murders has been arrested and we felt that this You know was eminent and hopefully would happen by the end of the year But the fact that it still did is shocking, and just I'm so glad that this didn't go any further because like I said, these families deserve to just have this put to rest as soon as possible. Yeah, and I think that there was, you know, there was a lot of push on the Moscow Police Department

and all the investigators and detectives that were working on this case, but you know, it seems like they had all this information long before any of the public. So the public was kind of freaking out and saying, why isn't there any updates? Like the police aren't doing their job, but really in all actuality,

they were doing their job very well secretly behind closed doors. Yeah, just the fact that within a couple weeks of the murders, they already had Ryan in mind as their suspect. Like that, I think, is mind blowing to all of us because like you're saying, we were all just twiddling our thumbs. Like, are you guys, do you have anybody in mind

or are you just completely stumped on this? And they did. We did have somebody in mind. And I think it just goes to show how patient we need to be when these cases are unfolding. And how much trust we do need to put in our law enforcement that are trying be when these cases are unfolding and how much trust we do need to put in our law enforcement that are trying to solve these cases. Well I know also Brian's parents have hired a crime scene reenactment expert

because I think they're trying to help prove that he's innocent but I don't know I don't want to bring his family into this we were going to kind of talk about them a little bit in this episode but I don't know. I don't want to bring his family into this. We were going to kind of talk about them a little bit in this episode, but I don't think that's super fair until we know whether or not they knew that he is guilty. If he is guilty, you know what I mean? Like, we, of course, wonder during that road trip with his dad and while staying at his parents' house, did this come up?

Is this completely out of left field for them? Are they completely shocked by this or did they know? I'm very curious. Yeah, and I imagine in the next couple of weeks we'll probably have even more answers to some of those questions. So thank you guys for listening to this episode. Please make sure you share it and for everybody out there in the world. Don't be a stranger. jerk. Thank you.

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